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Published Date: 05 November 2006
A DAY in the life of Jeremy Watson proves it is almost impossible to escape the unblinking eye of the 'surveillance state'
JUST after 8am in the most spied- upon nation in the world and I am approaching Tollcross and a busy crossroads close to the centre of Edinburgh. Any second now and I'll be able to wave a cheery good morning to the boys and girls manning the CCTV cen
tre in the bowels of the City Chambers.

This is where "official surveillance" begins, in the shape of a CCTV camera, as I make my way by car into Edinburgh for a day's work. I'm one of the lucky ones; those who live on the city's wealthier south side.

If I lived in the less salubrious districts of Pilton, Muirhouse or Wester Hailes - where situations requiring police attention are more likely to kick off - I would have been spotted getting into my vehicle. Morningside has none of the city's 130 surveillance cameras, whereas Wester Hailes has 15. If I'd taken the bus, my bleary visage would already have been captured and fed into a hard-drive for later retrieval if necessary.

One thing is already becoming clear about the "surveillance state". Some of us are more spied upon than others.

But once in the city centre zone there is no escape as I grind my way towards my office at Holyrood. Camera 128 at Greyfriars will put me in the frame with the famous statue of Bobby. As I cut down Infirmary Street, No 127 picks me up until I come into view of No 121 on the Cowgate. As I emerge on to Holyrood Road, it will be seconds before the cameras guarding the approaches to the Scottish Parliament building start taking an interest. As I turn into the Scotland on Sunday office's underground car park, the company's own CCTV system welcomes me in.

That is at least six sets of surveillance cameras between having my breakfast and sitting down at my desk. And those are only the ones I know about. If I'd stopped for petrol, money, or even a newspaper, the chances are that someone, somewhere would have been watching. Even that's not everything giving away my presence. In my pocket is my mobile phone. Should the law enforcement agencies want to find me, they could pinpoint my location to within a few hundred metres thanks to the signals it is sending out.

Most of us have probably become oblivious to the cold metal boxes imperiously staring down from above. If they swivel and tilt it is usually in well-oiled silence. But their growth has been so rapid that last week the government's Information Commissioner felt the need to draw the nation's attention to what he termed the "surveillance society".

With CCTV, retail analysis of buying habits, recording of travel movements and mobile phone tracking all on the increase, Richard Thomas warned that excessive surveillance was now creating a "climate of suspicion". Thomas believes clear lines need to be drawn about the extent to which government agencies and businesses can obtain and save information about people's movements and purchases.

"Two years ago, I warned that we were in danger of sleepwalking into a surveillance society," Thomas said. "Today, I fear that we are in fact waking up to a surveillance society that is already all around us."

This warning accompanied a report by campaign group Privacy International, which surveyed the growth of surveillance in 37 countries. Alarmingly for civil rights groups, it identified Britain, along with Russia, China, Malaysia and Singapore, as countries practising "endemic" surveillance against individual citizens.

Surveillance cameras are a case in point. Throughout the UK, there are now 4.2 million cameras, one for every 14 citizens. That equates to 20% of the world's surveillance cameras in a country that only covers 0.2% of the global land mass.

It is estimated that the average Londoner is now caught around 300 times every day with more than 1,800 cameras watching train stations alone. In other cities such as Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen, the total is likely to be around 100 times a day.

Mark Waterfall, who runs the joint council-police CCTV camera system covering the main towns in Fife, says the figures are unlikely to be exaggerated. "Somewhere like Edinburgh or Glasgow you will be on camera every time you walk down the street, go into a shop, stop for petrol or get on a bus. Rather than saying who has got CCTV systems, it is easier to ask who hasn't."

When I emerge from Scotland on Sunday for the short walk up to the City Chambers, my every step is clocked by CCTV. When I stop at a cash point I am under a camera's cool gaze. No 122 picks me up on Blair Street and hands me over to No 125, high on the side of a bank building opposite the Tron Kirk. It accompanies me as I turn into the City Chambers and head downstairs.

Just past the old cells with their wooden doors from the days the building was a courthouse is the council's £900,000 CCTV centre. In low-lighted gloom a team of council employees are on duty around the clock every day, to, as they say, help make the city a safer place. They sit at desks in front of a mind-boggling bank of 66 screens, monitoring traffic and crime hotspots. 10.45 on a Friday morning and a city doing its daytime business is spread out in front of the operators. On the corner of South Bridge, No 125 zooms in on two Japanese tourists looking bewildered as they consult a map. Seven cameras catch buses thundering along Princes Street beside overcrowded pavements.

At night, other cameras, trained on known trouble spots outside pubs and clubs, come into their own. In the editing suite just off the camera room, Tony, one of the senior CCTV operatives, replays an incident where a drunken man tries to make his way home along Princes Street - in a motorised wheelchair. Police are alerted and come to his rescue after he has crashed into a traffic bollard. In another incident, a black youth is chased along the street by a posse of young, white attackers led by a teenage girl.

Helping the law enforcers is high on the team's priority list. When they spot "abnormal" behaviour they have instant access to police radio systems and can both direct officers towards incidents and keep the cameras rolling while they get there. Even if a suspect has fled the scene, the CCTV evidence can be used in court. Under normal circumstances, live footage is scrapped after a week and time-lapse film, taken every few seconds, after a month. When required for evidence, however, the tapes can be kept for much longer periods.

Councillors insist that the demand is for more cameras, not fewer. Sheila Gilmore, the executive member for Community Safety and Housing, said: "Surveys tell us that most people feel safer if they know that CCTV cameras are there. The cameras are an important tool in combating crime and anti-social behaviour and were effective, in the past year, in securing around 1,200 arrests."

If Edinburgh appears to be well-endowed with cameras, then it is put firmly into the shade by Glasgow's 400. Scotland's largest city has embraced the surveillance society with a vengeance. To get there I must first run the gauntlet of cameras throughout Edinburgh city centre - at least six of the official variety - out to the huge Gyle shopping complex on the western outskirts.

I stop there for a lunchtime sandwich and drive into a CCTV-protected fortress. This is a private system run by the shopping centre's owners and little gets by them. At least two cameras are trained on every entrance and others look out over the vast car park. Inside, the main mall has cameras along its length. Just minutes after entering, our photographer is approached by a security man who informs him that he has been spotted by CCTV camera operators and is ordered not to take photographs.

Handing over my debit card to buy sandwiches, I reflect on the fact that my purchase of chicken salad on brown bread and a slice of carrot cake will be electronically logged as part of consumer buying pattern analysis. Those around me with supermarket loyalty cards have willingly volunteered a wealth of detail about their tastes, their spending and their lifestyle. They should expect to be targeted with highly-tailored special offers any time soon.

Leaving "Fortress" Gyle behind, I head west on the M8 towards Glasgow, where, until recently, the Scottish Human Rights Centre was based. After more than 20 years in existence, it was closed last December when local authority funding ran out.

On the way there I will be captured by the 18 cameras strung out on tall metal poles along the motorway between Edinburgh and Glasgow by Road Network Scotland, part of a Scottish Executive agency which monitors traffic flows along the central belt's main artery.

Senior police officers in Scotland are gradually introducing an automated number plate recognition system in which a mobile camera can be hooked up to an existing CCTV system and alert operators if a target passes by.

Coming off the M8 at Junction 15, Glasgow Cathedral, I move into the range of Glasgow council's CCTV operators. On the short journey to the Buchanan Centre, at least four cameras bear silent witness to my progress. I pass the statue of Donald Dewar and wonder whether the first First Minister would have approved of the round-the-clock intrusion into the lives of his fellow Glaswegians.

The city's council also emphasises the role its network of cameras plays in fighting crime and anti-social behaviour, but civil rights campaigners claim this does not tell the whole story.

John Scott, a human rights lawyer and former chairman of the Human Rights Centre, said: "CCTV does not do everything its supporters claim it to do in terms of fighting crime. It is not a deterrent, it just shifts crime away to other areas where there are not as many cameras. It might capture a drunk fighting in Sauchiehall Street, but anyone planning anything serious will do it well out of sight."

The proliferation of privately-operated systems has also brought more opportunity for abuse, Scott said. "CCTV operators have been fined and imprisoned for blackmail. Others have been caught getting close-ups on women or following them down the street."

By the time I am back in Edinburgh from a routine trip to Glasgow, I have been under surveillance by at least 77 CCTV cameras since leaving home after breakfast. It would have been many more if I had walked or driven around either city centre. Details of my lifestyle have been collected by a bank, a retailer and a petrol station. My mobile phone provider Orange confirmed that it was "obliged" to provide communications data - including location information - to law enforcement agencies, "when an appropriate request is made under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act".

Scott believes Commissioner Thomas is right to sound the alarm. "We are sleepwalking into a surveillance society and the gradual loss of freedom is something we should all regret. One of the main arguments for cameras is that if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. That same argument can be applied to cameras in your living room." The danger is, it seems, that no one is watching the watchers.

Every breath you take, every move you make, they'll be watching you


CCTV

More than 4.2 million cameras are in use in Britain - one for every 14 people - and the number is expected to increase by at least 50% over the next five years. Sophisticated new software will allow the cameras to detect "behavioural oddities" on the streets and automatically alert operators with many screens to monitor.

They will recognise groups of people, or those walking strangely. Some systems - one is currently on trial in Middlesbrough - will allow operators to verbally reprimand "offenders" such as litter louts.

WIRELESS CCTV

The next generation of camera being developed to combat claims that fixed units merely shift crime elsewhere. Wireless systems, initially in police mobile vans, but eventually in airborne drones, will be used in areas where it is difficult to run fibre-optic cables. They can also be moved quickly into new trouble spots. Westminster Council in London is currently working with systems supplier Cisco on a wireless CCTV network across Soho, where narrow streets and cramped alleys prevent fixed cameras from operating successfully.

MOBILE PHONES

With millions in use daily, they are a mobile tracking system. When switched on, mobile phones communicate with the network to enable an operator to route calls quickly and efficiently to and from its customers. This also enables law enforcement agencies, under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, to ask phone networks such as O2 or Orange to help them trace where calls have been made or monitor the movement of a phone through base station areas. The companies insist that no data regarding its customers would be disclosed without the appropriate legislative authority.

STORE CARDS

You may think it is a simple purchase using a convenient form of credit. To the store, it is valuable information on customer tastes, preferences and spending habits. Even filling in the application form yields a wealth of information, usually including mobile phone numbers and e-mail addresses so the marketing department can get to work and target you at home.

AUTOMATED NUMBER PLATE RECOGNITION

Soon to be rolled out in Scotland, ANPR allows a mobile camera to record thousands of licence plates as they move past every hour. Will be used initially to keep track of sex offenders on the official Violent and Sex Offenders' Register but could be turned on to drug traffickers, suspected terrorists and banned and unlicensed drivers. Eventually, face recognition systems will be possible so that "known" faces can be fed into the network. Civil liberties groups are wary as data can be stored for up to two years.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 04 November 2006 7:41 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Law and Order , Youth crime
 
1

James I,

Australia 05/11/2006 02:16:31

Your confidence is touching, only time will tell whether it is misplaced. Paranoaia may be an over-reaction, but were I in your shoes I think it would be unwise not to have at least some feeling of unease at the obvious inherent potential for systemic abuse.

2

Ben Chambers,

Edinburgh 05/11/2006 02:39:20

While I do support the increased security measures for vulnerable citizens I think that the intrusion that accompanies it is far more severe than we recognise.
I have been saved from being falsely accused of skipping a bus fare in Princess Street through CCTV footage. For which I was rather grateful.
In contrast, last month I was given a police caution after being filmed having sex with my girlfriend after dark in a secluded alleyway off Leith Walk.
Why was it considered in the public interest to zoom in on my girlfriend bouncing on me in an isolated, student area?
Public interest or puerile perversion?

3

Guga,

Rockall 05/11/2006 02:40:33

I think it is quite unreal that this tin-pot little amalgamation of countries has 20% of the world's CCTV cameras.

I've said it before, and I'll keep on saying it; under this government in particular, we are getting closer and closer to a totalitarian regime; one of which Hitler and Joe Stalin would have been proud.

If the war criminal Blair and his control freak buddies have their way, we will all end up being micro-chipped and having our every movement recorded.

Big Brother is definitely watching YOU.

4

scottwebb.co.uk,

05/11/2006 03:00:55
5

Stuart W,

05/11/2006 04:44:50

Brian # 4

Quote:

"Public interest or puerile perversion?"

Well it's not the most pevertedly puerile thing I've ever heard of, but you're getting there.

6

Ben Chambers,

Edinburgh 05/11/2006 04:56:58

So you have never got your end away in a public place? (far from populated areas) and outwith the intrusion, supposedly, of CCTV cameras.
Yeah, right. You must have been born middle-aged, sanctimonious ...or both !

7

JWW,

whitburn 05/11/2006 05:03:12

The librarian's must have difficulties in deciding where now to put George Orwell's 1984 book. Does it go in the fiction or non fiction section?

8

James I,

Australia 05/11/2006 06:10:14

#3 Gordon: The legitimate use of real time surveillance by government/quasi government agencies is all very well when a government perceived as benevolent is in power. Should the situation change and e.g. a more dictatorial regime assume power, the use of CCTV and the bureaucratic compliance measures you describe would provide that government with an irresistable tool to denigrate and otherwise neutralise opposition elements, among whom you may find yourself.

Comment #10 is spot on. Read/re-read 1984.

9

Open Minded,

Galashiels 05/11/2006 07:03:27

Before making any comment against the increased use of surveillance cameras, just think what your attitude to them would be if the footage from one helped to prevent injury to a loved one, or sadly, assist in the investigation of the crime.

10

Mallory,

Offline 05/11/2006 07:12:10

Wake up - CCTV, RFID, epassports, ID theft, NHS data...

its all available to Governments (we share data with the US and Europe) as is the pattern analysis now possible.

Poor George Orwell must be turning in his socialist grave, but today's Scots and Brits blindly permit this monstrous invasion of privacy to expand.

11

mr chips,

05/11/2006 09:10:53

We had a big brother cctv camera in our street
for five years, aftrer numerous calls to the counsil
asking them to use it to catch the 20 or so dog owners, who constantly let their dogs crap all over the street, the counsils response was to remove the camera. It could only happen in the dog dirt city of glasgow

12

Pete McClelland,

05/11/2006 09:23:04

oi! oi! no arguing now, I'm watching you lot!

13

James I,

Australia 05/11/2006 09:50:53

#13 David: Agreed. The problem lies in that we private citizens are being subject to a degree of scrutiny by entities which are themselves not subject to such scrutiny and are far from transparent.

Campbell #12 makes the point that CCTV can be used to prosecute violent offences.

Brian #4 cites an instance where CCTV has been used in what I personally consider to be a frivolous and potentially pernicious way.

What I find worrying is that people like Campbell seem to imply that you can't have one without the other. This is not the case. The data gathered COULD be subject to legislative restrictions which could at least try to limit the mischievous and/or pernicious use of such data. I am not aware of any initiative to even frame such legislation.

Having written all that pretentious-sounding crap, I read post #14! Using CCTV to control dogs*it! We live in interesting times.

14

John,

Clovenfords 05/11/2006 09:53:49

Any hints on how to immobilise or destroy untrusive CCTV units?

15

John,

Clovenfords 05/11/2006 09:54:07

Any hints on how to immobilise or destroy intrusive CCTV units?

16

,

05/11/2006 10:03:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 147552, Article id was mapped to record!
17

JG,

Fife 05/11/2006 10:04:05

#4 Brian
If you had been up to naughty things in a place where a member of the public had seen you, I would have got the point of you being given a row (and I suppose if the camera operators had picked you up on screen they might have focussed on what was happening to make sure that both parties were "up for it", i.e no-one was being dragged up a close!!!) but given your description, the Police would have been better employed catching baddies!!!

18

freetalkscotland,

Scotland's leading discussion forum 05/11/2006 10:24:04

Technological advance aside, had this article been written 25 years ago as a "Day in the Life of a Soviet Citizen", would we have had the same type of "you've got nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide" response ? I doubt it.

So why should it be ok in a "democratic" society ?

___________
This issue has also been debated at
http://www.forumspring.com/freetalkscotlan/viewtopic.php?...

19

JG,

Fife 05/11/2006 10:31:45

And if you can just watch everything on a TV screen it saves the Police from getting off their @rses and going out to actually talk to these scary members of the public.

20

Dennis,

North Isles 05/11/2006 10:31:48

I think we, in this country, have a strange kind of inate wish to please an authority figure. If we are 'being good' then we want it to be known - that's easy with CCTV at every corner.

One of the most worrying aspects (IMHO) is the inevitable polarising and separation of the police and the policed. We had 'bobbies' on the beat - who, in small towns and local communities, were often known by name. Then we had panda cars, which usually ensured that the police always got there just after the culprits had departed - but nevertheless it was a common site to see the patrol cars moving around the area. Now we are increasingly seeing no police at all either on the beat or even out patrolling in cars. Instead, we now have the populace under control by surveilance - which is increasingly all-pervasive.
The upshot is that ordinary people lose contact with recognised elements of the law - who instead of having a human face - are shadowy figures behind a speeding ticket, ASBO order, summons, or dawn raid.

I think the passion for CCTV will significantly increase the breakdown of what little social cohesion there is left in our society. The law abiding 'included' might have a warm cosy feeling for a while (until they get landed with speeding ticket for going 5 miles over the speed limit on an open road in the dead of night). On the other hand, the the seemingly increasing numbers of 'excluded' -who often don't have any contact with authority figures in their daily lives- will be increasingly emboldened to challenge a faceless system.

In the end the customers of the CCTV machine can often end up being the easy 'low hanging fruit' - such as the motorist, once-in-a-while high spirited part-goers. and people putting out litter in the wong bins.

Of course, that's just if we keep a nice benevolent nanny state - but do we really trust politicians and police that much to give them all the levers to control anyone they like - just because we want

21

Jason,

Japan 05/11/2006 10:56:42

SADDAM HUSSEIN SENTENCED TO DEATH.......... NEWS JUST IN

Does this mean he won't be getting his old job back?

22

Susan,

Cologne, Germany 05/11/2006 11:29:00

Personally I wish there were more CCTV machines here in Germany. The Germans do, however, all have (to have) idenity cards - and nobody feels that his or her private sphere is being encroached upon (because of these ID cards). My friends and colleagues are amazed, when I tell them that there have not been any ID cards in Britain since World War II.
Here everybody has to register - at his local town hall - when he or she moves to a new address, which means that the German authorities know exactly where a person lives (assuming he or she has registered!). I do not remember having had to register at my town hall, when I lived in Britain.
Instead of being so afraid of CCTV machines, etc., be grateful that Big Brother (or less us say "the authorities") is or ARE concerned about the Brits' safety and are doing something to protect people who live in Britain.

23

Agent 99,

05/11/2006 11:34:45

The main point in this article is CCTV, but mobile phones are also mentioned.

The phone companies assure us that they will only disclose location, calling info with the "appropriate request".

For the moment perhaps this is true (in the UK) but elsewhere not. In Germany you can go to any number of privately run websites to track down your "loved one" whom you suspect of bunking off work with a colleague (or whoever...) for a bit of afternoon, extra-marital fun.

I believe Germany has some privacy laws, something that's manifestly missing in the UK. Such laws don't appear to forstall the offering of private tracking/snooping services. How long then, before similar services are offered here?

24

Pete,

Paisley 05/11/2006 11:40:15

Cameras can now be "trained" to respond to different sounds. They can tell the difference between a firework and a gunshot, a shriek of joy or one of fear. They pan and tilt to the locus of the "trained" sound and start recording in seconds. Perhaps when such cameras are widely available they will not need to record absolutely everything.

25

Tanja,

Malta 05/11/2006 11:43:49

It's not only Big Brother, but his Dutch Uncle, too. And, moreover, it's not even a question of better safe than sorry; the deed is done before the footage can be utilised or even examined, more often than not.

26

Anny,

05/11/2006 11:59:13

Is a list of the Edinburgh council camera locations available?

27

Ronnie Ray,

Glasgow 05/11/2006 13:16:55

Big Brother meets Brave New World....its happening and we are sleepwalking into it...and what good are cameras if they let the convicted walk from their crimes?....its all about money and control...the more we accept it the more control they will inflict upon us....will these people (who say Oh I dont do anything wrong so I dont have a problem with cctv) still be happy once there is a camera in your living room...because thats where its ultimately headed. Its just more erosion of your personal rights...they are tracking you everywhere even now...with satellite navigation...mobile phones ...credit cards..all of which is telling whover is interested where you are...what you are spending your money on..where you intend to go...as the previous poster alluded to ...what if some extreme power takes control...all the high level of crime ..all the fear of terrorism are just tools to enable the installation of this surveillance mentallity ...and for all of our sakes we had better start fighting back against it now, starting with the control freaks that is new labour, or the tipping point will be reached whereby 1984 will be a reality..and we wont be able to fight it, and thats a reality tv too far!

28

scottwebb.co.uk,

05/11/2006 13:48:24

Hey people you'd better not say to much as the Scotsman will ban your email address and remove comments that let the cat out the bag :)

29

Leith Keelie,

Herts 05/11/2006 13:58:16

All these people who are so afraid of the big brother syndrome, should throw away their credit and store cards and mobile phone, wear a hoody and then do what you like. Incidentally, Brian, it couldn't have been very dark in the alley way if the camera could see you and could I have the lady's phone number (landline of course) A former girlfriend of mine used to love doing it in the backseat of cinemas in the afternoon ( no cameras ).

30

ian k,

Edinburgh 05/11/2006 14:03:33

Just what are people scared of

31

Leith Keelie,

Herts 05/11/2006 14:06:30

Personally, it was cinema usherettes with torches, Ian

32

Onlooker,

05/11/2006 15:36:26

People aren't protesting because the idea of being on camera and being watched is now ingrained into our psyches through decades of exposure to telly and films and video cameras at weddings and whatnot. We're all (unwilling or unwitting) contestants on Big Brother now, watched by...well, whom, exactly? Who gets the contracts to fit these cameras? Why? Kickbacks to government? What happens to the sex footage they film? Destroyed? Archived? Used for masturbation fodder by the police or pub(l)ic 'servants'? Will we see eventually a programme with all this real footage on the telly or the net? After all, security cam footage is now a recognized sex film subgenre. Would the participants get paid for taking part, knowingly or otherwise? I'd hate to be a porn star and not reap the financial benefits of my public sex actions!

There are a million question that can be asked, and few answers to be gotten. How often do you hear of these cameras really being used in a court case? I'm obviously not saying it doesn't happen, but not as much as you would think. I don't trust the camera people. It's not paranoia, it's just common sense. I want to be paid for my bit part acting in their voyeuristic fantasy films. Pay me, New Labour! Way I figure it you owe me a LOT of money from years of surveillance in Falkirk town centre. Some people (not me) probably on some level get an exhibitionist kick out of knowing they're being watched, only not by God, as in days gone by, but by people. The camera operators have their own private version of Big Brother starring the public to watch. What a great job; who the hell would want that boring, occasionally-interesting job? What kind of voyeursitic mentality would you have to have?

The one we ALL have and plug into when we watch the telly.

Sigh.

33

Alec,

Yorkshire, and proud of it! 05/11/2006 19:59:47

Doesn't it warm your heart to know you are being so well looked after. Just think, if anything happens to you such as a mugging, your fate will be instantly identified, as will your attacker. Stop whingeing and be thankful.

34

Onlooker,

05/11/2006 20:46:06

Be thankful for being spied on? No chance. Where's Joke McConman whining and whingeing on about 'privacy' with regards to filmed incidents now? Why does Britain have such an insanely high proportion of these cameras in relation to the rest of the world? What does this say about the British psyche...or maybe the people who herd and watch over us?

35

HUGH JAMPTON,

05/11/2006 21:12:52

STALIN IS ALIVE AND WORKING FOR M.I.6
GEORGE ORWELL WAS 22 YEARS EARLY
BUT.

WE WERE WARNED!!!!!!!!!!

36

HUGH JAMPTON,

05/11/2006 21:14:28

OH TO BE A POLICEMAN NOE DEMOCRACY IS DEAD AND FREE SPEECH IS A MYTH (nearly)

37

Eddie,

05/11/2006 22:53:10

Whats all this crap about George Orwells 1984?
The information being recorded is for useful purposes - we should be glad it's there (would the authorities know so much about the London Bombers if they hadn't had the CCTV - thats all information for future planning)
If this great dark Orwellian nightmare should ever decend it would take many thousands of operators and enforcers to abuse the camera systems. The current operators are no doubt mainly decent people just doing a job

38

Steve Phillips,

Australia 06/11/2006 00:23:54

James I, Australia "Should the situation change and e.g. a more dictatorial regime assume power.."
If a dictatorial govt did gain power if the cameras were not there they would soon be installed. A dictatorial govt wouldnt ask so at least while the UKs govt is benign the UK should reap the crime reducing benefit while it can.
The Lord knows you need something, considering the mess your social engineers have created.

39

,

06/11/2006 01:10:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 148591, Article id was mapped to record!
40

James I,

Australia 06/11/2006 02:31:08

Gordon #37: As I said in my original post, I envy your boundless optimism and ability to see only good in the CCTV phenomenon; I really hope you are right. Unfortunately I fear the erosion of freedoms we now take for granted will result. Possibly quite rapidly. (But at least there will be less dog poo on the streets - see#14?!)

Obviously only time will tell, and I sense that debating this further with you will only degenerate into a slanging match; despite your assertion that you were "brought up with manners" I note that in the next breath you refer to me as "paranoid..rebellious teenager...petrified". Such a propensity to play the man rather than the ball is not conducive to meaningful debate. While you may have been brought up with manners you clearly do not understand how to be polite and mannerly in your social intercourse.

41

Onlooker,

06/11/2006 05:15:38

CCTV cameras are not put in cities or towns to protect citizens; they are put there to protect shops and shopowners from being stolen from. If they truly were a peacekeeping mechanism they would be everywhere, instead of just in shopping areas. Then again, who knows if that may come to be...

42

Scottie,

06/11/2006 07:42:56

Having sex in a city alleyway is plain daft with all the crime around, and most alleyways don't smell too good and are definitely not particularly romantic or attractive! How yucky, imagine all the germs and dirt there is there!

Up in the mountains somewhere, or on a secluded and deserted beach would be a different story.

43

Danepiper,

New Mexico, USA. 06/11/2006 15:26:21

Yeee Haaaaa,
Such is the price of Personal Security. Live with it you wimps or arm yourselves and be responsible!

44

Lizzie B,

Edinburgh 06/11/2006 18:57:33

I've lived for 23 years in Edinburgh city centre, and am now an OAP. My flat is a stone's throw from 10 pubs, 2 schools and a brothel, none of which bother me in the slightest.

However, I resent the fact that, within 30 seconds of leaving home, I'm on CCTV for no reason. It doesn't stop the New Town residents fly-tipping outside my house, the adults in full saftey gear riding bikes on the pavement, or the double-parked cards causing a safety hazard - they're all middle-class so it's not looking for them!

Those who point out that we're kept track of when we use loyalty cards etc are (deliberately? Surely they can't be that stupid?) missing the point: these things (some of them, anyway!) are voluntary but the only way I - and millions of others - can keep off CCTV is by staying in my flat or within 50 yards of it for the rest of my life!

Would the smug people who say "if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear" take the same line if the "authorities" did a random search of their houses? Would they like to find out that a gang of young people wearing hoodies had been recording their every move?


 

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Do you think teenage tearaways should be sent off on adventure courses?
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