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Published Date: 03 December 2006
By GEIR MOULSON
IN BERLIN
GERMANY is heading for a ban on smoking in many public places - but the measure won't clear the fog in smoky bars and beer tents.
Under a proposal from a group of governing coalition lawmakers released at the end of last week, restaurants in one of Europe's most nicotine-friendly countries will also be able to offer separate smoking rooms.

The proposal, which could take effect in July 2007 if parliament approves, would in principle ban smoking in all public buildings and hospitals.

However, the restrictions fall short of the more draconian anti-smoking measures taking hold elsewhere in Europe.

Bars and beer tents will be exempted completely. That contrasts with the stance of countries such as Scotland, Ireland and Italy, where smoking is totally banned in bars and restaurants.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 02 December 2006 10:29 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Tobacco , Smoking issues
 
1

Paul Voltaire,

www.paulvoltaire.spaces.live.com 03/12/2006 08:06:37

The smoking-ban should be consistent throughout the European Union.
However, if the Germans want to puff themselves to death, you won't hear me complain too much.

2

Donnie,

03/12/2006 08:54:37

So Germany has followed the example of Spain, Italyand other european countries 10 out of 10 to them. They have not forgotton the lessons of history and the last socialist government that banned smoking in public places that of Adolf Hitler.

http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id1....

My sister a non smoker has lived in Germany for 30 years and has consistently told me that Germans will never accept the persecution and apartheid of people who smoke they have not forgotton where this leads.

Well done Germany lets hope others follow your lead in tolerance of your fellow man.

3

,

03/12/2006 11:18:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 206696, Article id was mapped to record!
4

Belinda-2,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 11:28:48

I expect Germany will now experience an onslaught from the international anti-tobacco lobby reminding them of their 'obligations to their workers', but it is good that a national authority has recognised limits to its jurisdiction and allowed German people some choice in their social smoking.

I have (before anyone remarks) been employed in catering establishments before the ban and neither smoke nor ashtrays bothered me as much as having to explain to customers when the establshment has gone non-smoking. That was years ago before a ban was conceivable.

Paul Voltaire – There is actually no reason why every European authority 'should' toe the line on this draconian smoking ban fever.

5

Colin,

Banff 03/12/2006 13:12:31

Some common sense at last!

Germany is unique amongst a growing group of trend-following wimps. All people need is a choice, some compromise, to be happy. I think that the need for smoke free venues will increase as the market demands it.

We should have applied the same thinking here, and catered for the 15 million smokers as well.

Well done Germany!

6

Loraine,

London 03/12/2006 13:36:04

Absolut herrlich. Wer würde ihm? geglaubt haben?

See - I have started learning the lingo already. Anyone want to join me for August in Berlin

7

Bill Crombie,

Wiltshire 03/12/2006 13:46:29

Hats off to the Germans for taking the compromise route - unfortunately, our less than intelligent politicians have forgotten history and been take in by the propaganda rather than the science.

I visited Germany last year with my family and would completely recommend it to anyone - very friendly and tolerant people, unlike Britain, which seems to be falling into the abiss.

8

Paul Voltaire,

www.paulvoltaire.spaces.live.com 03/12/2006 14:51:39

Douglas #3
I see your comments are as witty and stimulating as ever :-)

9

GrahamB,

03/12/2006 15:23:42

Voltaire:
A singularly peculiar name for a person of your views. Am I incorrect or do I recall whilst studying the classics that one of the "real" Voltaire’s most prolific statements was?
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

10

Paul Voltaire,

www.paulvoltaire.spaces.live.com 03/12/2006 15:28:18

#9
Correct!
Give that man a prize!

11

Colin,

Banff 03/12/2006 15:41:58

I prefer the words of John Locke (1632-1704)

"It is one thing to show a man he is in an error, and another to put him in possession of the truth".

12

Davy,

In the pub 03/12/2006 16:21:04

I am a none smoker & I hate this smoking ban the pubs are now dead.
When you are now in the pub and have a look about, all the faces are of misery. Gone are the happy days with a good bit of the old banter. Reason being all the banter seemed to come from the smokers who on the whole used to be a happier lot than the none smoker. To treat people the way smokers have been treated is criminal. Most of my old pals stay at home rather than face the humiliation of having to stand outside.
I think the Germans are being sensible.
What has our Mps done to us?
They are evil manipulating power crazy nutcases.

13

claire,

03/12/2006 16:57:54

The germans have already been through the nazis and are not willing to be put through the same tactics again. Good on them for not believing all the rubbish junk science that has got UK whipped into such a state of hysteria. The rest of europe seem to be able to put their citizens first but our government are just keen to rob us blind through taxing everything, turning us into alcos and keeping us fat. I wonder how the ban in scotland is getting on now the horrendous winter has arrived. I wonder if immigrants would be so keen to move here if they really knew how depressing it is becoming living here.

14

Donnie,

03/12/2006 17:04:01

12 Davy, I agree, I agree, I agree, we want normality to return what right have governments to separate people - vote em out I say - people get on a lot better without them.

15

claire,

03/12/2006 18:49:50

Donnie - I agree! We all moaned and whined about thatcher and the conservatives, but I think blair has surpassed her in the "most hated prime minister" stakes now.

16

David from New Mills,

U.K. 03/12/2006 20:16:04

#6, Loraine, London.
Es lebe ein Rauchfreies Deutschland! Wie alt bist du, dann?

17

David from New Mills,

U.K. 03/12/2006 20:26:03

#13 & 15, Claire.
Despite the distance, Scotland has it's share of Eastern European brickies, plumbers, bus drivers etc., most of whom are impeccably mannered by British standards, and just glad of a better-paid job.
It's sad that Claire feels so depressed, whereas I'm looking forward to July 1st. Perhaps a matter of attitude? Think positive!
She still needs to watch those capital letters!

18

David from New Mills,

U.K. 03/12/2006 20:38:42

#6, Loraine, London.
Colin of Banff, and Claire 77, will no doubt accuse me of being pedantic, but better to have said "Wer hätte es geglaubt." "Glauben" takes the dative case for personal pronouns/nouns viz "Ich glaube dir (oder Ihnen ), but the accusative for impersonal, viz "Das glaube ich nicht!"
Wie man sagt, "Übung macht ( den ) Meister. "
German lessons given. ( Not as dubious as the French variety! )

19

David from New Mills,

U.K. 03/12/2006 20:41:49

#11, Colin, Banff.
Perhaps I now understand Colin's motivation. However' he's not scoring in either aim with myself.

20

Donnie,

03/12/2006 20:52:21

19 Yo Dave Im back get the tin hat on ready for battle

21

Donnie,

03/12/2006 20:59:02

19 David

Deutschland viele Male als meine Schwester besichtigend, hat dort für 30 Jahre gelebt, die ich froh bin zu sagen, daß sie nicht Anti- und Sie sehr willkommenes Chuz zu bilden rauchen

22

Belinda-2,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 21:38:05

Claire

An attitude of positive resistance to the ban will make you feel much stronger and more optimistic. I know, I am north of the border and I have tried it!

23

Colin,

Banff 03/12/2006 21:48:38

David,

I see from another thread that you prefer "blissful ignorance". I promise never to attempt to remove you from this state of bliss.

Your scribblings, which, as usual, add absolutely nothing to the debate, will be ignored by me from this moment forth.

Please extend the same courtesy to me.

24

mandyv,

UK 03/12/2006 23:29:14

Well somewhere I have never been and I was born there, sounds like my kind of place.
Booked up for next years holiays already and it not in the UK.
I will try to squeeze Germany in as well
David you can keep, the whole of the UK for your holidays, and those that appeal to you.
Claire, David talks about you being depressed along with many of us, but Mother-in-law said yesterday she hopes she dies before it gets here.
Not that it affects her too much, as she got fired when she was 73 NHS, she is glad about it now.
I am sure she is not alone in her thoughts.

25

Stephen Morrell,

Norfolk 04/12/2006 00:15:36

Some of the people who smoke and the non smokers who have welcomed the ban have a naivety of the bigger picture of whats really going on. I work with somone who calls their self a christian who is the biggest bigot i have ever met when it comes to people who smoke. Whilst at work I only go outside to smoke in official breaks. I hear this person make snide comments to people when they go for a break but due to anti-discrimination laws not including people who smoke can get away with it. In the 1970's it was discrimination against race, 1980's homosexuality, 1990's single mums and now smokers. An unfortunate disease of this country is compromise is a dirty word and we all have to unite and look down on a particular social group. Hat off to Germany for their rememberance of history. Britain is now like a Police state.

26

Chuckles,

04/12/2006 00:20:26

dammit I need to learn German too!! I already speak English, Francais, Italiano y Castellano but i need to learn Deutsch as well!! Sounds like a common sense country- when ive got time ill learn the language!!

27

Robert Feal-Martinez,

Swindon 04/12/2006 12:44:24

isn't it amazing how a country which was once a brutal dictatorship can show the Mother of Democracy how it should be done. As Britains we ought to feel ashamed that we as citizens have allowed this creeping infestation to contaminate our lives. The sooner the New Labour corrupt, social engineering machine goes the better, then just perhaps Britain can be great again. Well done Germany.

28

David from New Mills,

U.K. 04/12/2006 13:47:51

#23, Colin, Banff.
I am not remotely interested in whether "my scribblings" either please or displease Colin. If he doesn't wish to comment on them he is quite welcome to keep his head in the sand. However, I shall certainly not refrain from pointing out the weaknesses in his arguments, as I see fit.
Does this mean we're not pals anymore?

29

David from New Mills,

U.K. 04/12/2006 13:53:54

#26, Chuckles.
Carlo should appreciate that German is a very structured language, quite unlike the Latin derived tongues. He may be well advised to practise honing his English, which would help him, before venturing into pastures new.

30

Donnie,

04/12/2006 18:09:55

28 David, I didnt know you and Colin were friends is there something you are not telling me. Tin hat on ready for reply - by the way Latin is such a boring language

31

Chuckster,

04/12/2006 18:13:53

If you think it's bad in Europe you people should look to some areas in the US. It's a slippery slope people. Check out how extreme it's getting on the politically correct West Coast. They feel they need to make decisions for those of us who are too feeble minded to choose THEIR lifestyle. Watch out UK it's coming your way.

http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_319175227.html

32

Donnie,

04/12/2006 19:53:40

31 Chuckster, this dosent surprise me at all, I have no doubt that smokers will be attacked in their cars and homes and the excuse will be children. Persecution has no end with these people. Blair has caused a civil war in Iraq and before long we will have one here, people are absolutely fed up to the back teeth with politicians telling them how to live their lives whilst at the same time taking £4.00 out of every £5 spent on a packet of cigarettes and they also want a pay rise of £40,000 per year thats on top of all the expenses they get and whos paying for it. I feel a revolution in the air, the sooner the better.

33

David from New Mills,

U.K. 04/12/2006 20:16:37

#11, Colin, Banff.
How about " A knowledgeable fool is a greater fool than an ignorant fool"? - Molière 1662-73.

34

David from New Mills,

U.K. 04/12/2006 20:56:33

#21 & 30, Donnie.
Was bedeutet Chuz, bitte? Ich hatte eine kleine Schwierigkeit seine Worten zu verstehen.
Colin in the "EU ruling" thread made a short-lived offer on 27th November to be pals, however, I cannily suspected a poisoned chalice. Rightly, as it turned out.
My knowledge of Latin is very limited, but Donnie might consider "Cui bono?", in relation to smoking and the tobacco companies.
I did refer at #29, however, to the Latin based languages, not to Latin itself..

35

David from New Mills,

U.K. 04/12/2006 21:45:29

#22, Belinda.
Having been north of the border, and tried it, I have a positive, optimistic attitude to July 1st in England. Trust Belinda and her mates are finding some Scottish pubs to their liking.

36

Donnie,

04/12/2006 22:00:39

34 David, Oh I can see you are in a prickly mood today, try a ciggie it might cheer you up.

37

mandyv,

UK 04/12/2006 22:31:47

Sad about the bingo halls and pubs that will or have shut down, because that affects everyone who use that venue, not just the smokers.
What has happened to the bingo players, never seem to hear about that.
Shame I cannot understand any other language, struggle with this LOL, so cannot read some of the posts.
I can count up to twenty in another two languages but cannot even spell them.

38

James Donald,

Edinburgh 05/12/2006 00:26:44

Surprised that so many Germans smoke given the known health risks as they seem to be a nation of hypocondriacs.

As for #12. Davy, In the pub, many pubs have nice sheltered area outside where the smoker can enjoy a smoke and a pint free of "humiliation". I hear the banter is great in the cancer wards of most hospitals, though they do face the "humiliation" of sitting outside with their chemotherapy machines whilst "enjoying" a smoke.

I am a non-smoker and after the vitriol I was subjected to by smokers prior to the ban in Scotland (along the lines of "F off outside if you don't like my smoke"), I have little sympathy for smokers who winge about their rights being eroded as they have to smoke outside or at home.

39

Chuckles,

05/12/2006 01:59:42

Oh I pity you james38!!!! i have so little sympathy for people like you that you probably deserved the smoke in your face!!

40

maestra,

05/12/2006 08:54:25

Pubs are great now - maybe Davy is just going to the wrong pubs.

To equate a smoking ban with Nazism is a bit worrying - think on!

41

Colin,

Banff 05/12/2006 11:10:05

#40,

To equate a smoking ban with Nazism is absolutely normal.

It was their idea in the first place. The Nazi's didnt lose the war, they just lost a battle.

As distasteful as they are, the similarities are obvious, and very disturbing.

Get used to people making the connection.

Its accurate.

42

James Donald,

Edinburgh 05/12/2006 12:30:20

#39. Chuckles - Yes that's it. That's the sort od crappy, selfish attitude I was referring to. The particular "establishment" I frquented was full of smokers who liked to stand at the bar (despite the place being half empty) and puff away. The rest of the non-smokers could retire to a relatively smoke free area but the non-smoking barman did not have any choice other that to stand there and "enjoy". Hence my lack of sympathy.

43

David from New Mills,

U.K. 05/12/2006 13:17:51

#36, Donnie.
David's in a benign mood as the clock ticks towards July 1st. Does he know the meaning of "Chuz" yet, so I can try to interpret his contribution at #21?
Sussed out "cui bono" yet?

44

David from New Mills,

U.K. 05/12/2006 13:44:20

#42, James Donald, Edinburgh.
I sympathise entirely with James, as I've experienced the selfish attitudes of smokers in pubs and restaurants for years, viz. the smoke in your face, and carelessly flicked ash. Not so familiar with the Scottish scene, but English breweries and Pubcos are expending lots of effort and money, in catering for smokers outside, which they should appreciate.
Can't speak for James, but I derive no satisfaction from seeing smokers "huddled in the cold", just a feeling of pity for them with their dreadfully restricting addiction.
James shouldn't expect much sense from Chuckles a.k.a. Carlo E., as his train of thought is notoriously fickle.

45

David from New Mills,

U.K. 05/12/2006 13:48:37

#41, Colin, Banff.
Does Colin really believe the whole rationale and motivation of the Nazis was to outlaw smoking, and that the second world war was some kind of irrelevant sideshow?
Well, that's a new slant on history!
No reply sought.

46

Chuckles,

05/12/2006 16:41:37

latest from forces(the best smoking site ever created!!)- very interesting site: http://www.forces.org/

And At last maybe a rebellion!!
http://www.nbc11.com/news/10433792/detail.html

now this is getting interesting!!

But notice the anti- typical- father died of lung cancer so blame it on the nation................

Anyway heres the forum:

http://speakeasyforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/378607542/m/...
and im proud to be a member!!

47

Belinda-2,

Edinburgh 05/12/2006 16:43:56

David

Not speaking for Colin but don't believe he said that smoking was the prime target of Nazism. But their ethos was 'the purification of the race'.

James
I have had nothing from smokers, in bars and out of them, but the same kindness and consideration I would get from anybody else. This act is not meant to be one of retribution against smokers, it is meant to be a public health measure. There is no reason at all why smokers should not be catered for, or why all non-smokers should be presumed to wish them to have no recreational space in which to smoke socially.

48

Chuckles,

05/12/2006 16:45:07

david44 were not happy with designated areas outside thats why were fighting!!!! We want pubs to be allowed to choose who to accomodate with clearly posted signs!!!!

You should have appreciated it when pubs created nonsmoking sections especially for people like you and James!!

49

Chuckles,

05/12/2006 16:46:38

Oh yeah and Im proud to say ill be leaving the country after 1st July for good hopefully!! Off to Italy for my year abroad!!

50

Chuckles,

05/12/2006 16:50:38

Belinda is a typical example of the average nonsmoker!! Thats what my nonsmoking friends are like!! To all casual readers- please ignore James and Davide!!

51

Chuckles,

05/12/2006 16:51:24

44 David/NM- Un po come il tuo Davide!!!!

52

Donnie,

05/12/2006 19:45:14

43 David, yes I do know the meaning of the word "Chuz". My sister has lived in Germany for over 30 years and I have visited frequently. The only time you will hear Chuz is if someone realy likes you as it is an informal cheers to a friend not a formal one. The Germans use a different set of words for family and friends to what they use for strangers. I could give you a few swear words but that would be impolite. The Nazis are referred to as the brown shirts and Germans are determined that they and their type of policies will never ever ever return to their land. they dont believe in making anyone an outcast including smokers and quite frankly they are appalled at how people are treated here and the cost of things. Their society goes to great lengths to stop any type of persecution whilst ours goes to any lengths to encourage it even using the TV to promote their lying propaganda brainwashing people. We might have won the war but somewhere along the way we lost tolerance of others, justice and what being British means. We are a very sad country ruled by a load of bullies that want paying £100,000 per year.

53

Donnie,

05/12/2006 19:53:50

42 James Donald, do you have a white streak in your hair, if so I fear we are somewhat related. The white streak originated from the "Watson" family. All the "Donald" clan I know smoke so I fear we are on opposite sides of the fence - shame

54

David from New Mills,

U.K. 05/12/2006 20:49:40

#47, Belinda.
Colin didn't exactly couch his posting in those terms.
What "battle" did they lose? Are they waiting for a resurrection, or are pro-restrictionists just their new embodiment? Come, on Belinda, try just a little harder!
Don't wish to speak for James, but I've always found considerate smokers very thin on the ground. Still, they have a new venue to accommodate them; it's just outside.

55

Donnie,

05/12/2006 20:58:59

#54 David wrong again, the new accommodation is called "House Parties" but only the nicest of people are invited Soz

56

David from New Mills,

U.K. 05/12/2006 21:02:01

#48-51, Chuckles.
Can't Carlo finish a posting, or does he just have erratic, uncontrolled thought patterns?
#48. Tough cheese and smoke drifts, unless hermetically sealed.
#49. Buon viaggio e addio!
#50. See #54.
#51. Et ta soeur!
When's the flight? Via Smintair?

57

David from New Mills,

U.K. 05/12/2006 21:18:04

#52, Donnie.
His explanation of " Chuz" has enabled me to make some sense of posting #21.
I could give Donnie loads of German swear words, but not really my scene.
The rest of his posting, seems to lapse into a kind of political diatribe.
Willing to continue postings in some kind of meaningful German, with or without Sis's help.
#55.
Sounds good-should keep the guests sweet. Soz(?)

58

Belinda-2,

Edinburgh 05/12/2006 22:08:04

David,

Ok I will try harder. I didn't read everything Colin ever wrote on the subject but I agree that there are disturbing parallels between all campaigns based on glorification of health and wellbeing at the expense of compassion.

Elevating the status of some of society at the expense of everybody else is a hallmark of this kind of society. Mass murder is not part of the picture, but there is definitely a sense of 'some are more equal than others'. Us non-smokers are urged to believe that smokers were spoiling our social lives and endangering our health – rather than being encouraged to believe that they are our fellow citizens whose needs should be catered for.

You rightly point out that it was not smokers that the Third Reich went for, but they did discourage smoking very firmly, and because they wanted people to be perfect citizens – without considering whether they were compassionate towards any of the persecuted groups.

59

James Donald,

Midlothian 05/12/2006 23:43:31

#47. Belinda, Edinburgh - "I have had nothing from smokers, in bars and out of them, but the same kindness and consideration I would get from anybody else" - you have indeed been lucky then. I have no desire to oblige smokers to quit but I don't see what the big deal is if they cannot smoke in a pub. Smoke outside, find a pub with a beer garden with shelter and a heater, wear a jacket whe you are outside smoking, take a brolly if it is raining just spare the rest of us all this crap about anti-smoking fascism and the smoking ban being the first step on the road to a Nazi dictatorship. This is still a democracy and you still have the right to smoke yourselves to death just not in enclosed public places.

#53. Donnie - Donald is my middle name and I am from another Clan so i do not think we are related. All the male members of my family smoked and most lived past 70 - I think I am the first non smoker generation.

60

mandyv,

UK 06/12/2006 00:03:39

Belinda 58, yep like I have said many times without actually using the nazi term, but that is what runs through my mind.
Smokers to the left - Cubblies to the right - make way for perfection.
Most of the smokers would have liked ventilation, so why do you keep on about that David.
When the pubs are shutting and the bingo halls have closed, what has happened to the, non-smokers and the smokers, that has affected everyone.
Again, if there were so many Antis, (which there are not) youn were never banned form opening up your own place were you.
They should have been little goldmines the way the Antis talk.
There have been some pubs locally that went non-smoking, that have now gone back again.
What does that tell you.
If your answer is nothing, God help us all.
If you were more truthful with how much this has all cost the Country. You will have a lot more angry people.
Probably ihn the Mental health section, who are stuggling with funding.

61

Belinda-2,

Edinburgh 06/12/2006 01:13:29

David

Nobody anywhere in Scotland is allowed to accommodate smokers indoors, outside the home. There is absolutely no rationale for this whatsoever. It is forcing most of us to act against our better nature by forcing our elders and the sick and vulnerable into the street. It is making many of us despise ourselves for complying with such a damaging and divisive policy.

The government relies on contemporary 'science' to make its case. Perhaps it distorts and misrepresents it even more than the Nazis did, I don't know. How else could you persuade people that a relative risk of 1.24 is anywhere near causative of fatal disease.

You may think it is no big deal but look at the frenzy of controversy that it has brought forth. I disagree, I feel it is an enormous discourtesy to the Scottish people to expect them to put up with this and it is quite unnecessary.

Distorts and misrepresents: see http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1801522006.

62

,

06/12/2006 03:30:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 212206, Article id was mapped to record!
63

Chuckles,

06/12/2006 03:37:01

A las Seis horas del manana el Primero de Julio 2007 el Fascismo arriva en Inglaterra definitavamente!!! Es un hora y dia de puta!!!!

Il primo agosto a lei Sei di mattina del Primo Luglio 2007 il Fascismo arriverara per sicuro in Ingilterra!! E un ora e giorno che fa cacare!!!!

64

Chuckles,

06/12/2006 11:05:43

David54 thats right its house parties- smokers and tolerant nonsmokers invited antismokers no thanks!!

65

JonnyCab,

06/12/2006 11:19:49

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/smokers-united/

66

David from New Mills,

U.K. 06/12/2006 13:56:38

#64, Chuckles.
I'm sure they'll cope, somehow.

67

sorochin,

new york 06/12/2006 16:50:08

My 2007 vacation will be spent in Germany, not Scotland. I'll be glad to visit again when I'm treated like a human being, not some "problem" to be banished to the street. Beannachd leibh, a Alba.

68

Chuckles,

06/12/2006 18:03:30

me too!!!! Ill only go to smokefriendly countries!!

69

David from New Mills,

U.K. 06/12/2006 20:09:52

#68, Chuckles.
Carlo E. should get a move on, as they're dwindling fast.

70

Chuckles,

06/12/2006 20:50:14

Well see!!

71

David from New Mills,

U.K. 07/12/2006 17:30:31

#70, Chuckles.
Quite so.

72

David from New Mills,

U.K. 07/12/2006 18:36:32

#58, Belinda Edinburgh.
Belinda claims that the status of non-smokers is being elevated in some way. Not so, merely their comfort.
Regarding this attempted Nazi comparison:-
In immediate post-war Britain when Old Labour introduced free milk for schoolchildren, and orange juice and codliver oil tablets for babies, was this:-
A) An altruistic attempt to improve the health of the nation.
B) A nanny state piece of social engineering by health control freaks.
C) A Nazi style attempt to make perfect citizens.
Depends on your bias, but I know which answer I'd find more realistic.

73

David from New Mills,

U.K. 07/12/2006 18:49:03

#61, Belinda, Edinburgh.
Belinda and her followers overlook the fact that it is not legislation that is forcing the halt, the sick and the lame out of doors, but their dreadful addiction.
If they can't last an hour or two without their nicotine fix, then they really have a serious narcotic problem. I prefer to consider those non-smoking aged, war veterans and disabled who can socialise, without having to suffer smokers' effluence or effluent, whichever word satisfies Claire 77's sense of aesthetics.
It is smokers' selfishness that has caused the problem, no one else's.

74

Ileach,

08/12/2006 00:18:45

Hmmm - Chuz? Maybe I've been away from home for a while too long - but I could swear I've never heard that "word" (is it?) before in my life. Tschuess, vielleicht?
In any event, regarding the smoking ban - my current city was the worst smoking banner in the world (and one of the first, too, I believe). Our lovely mayor was the reason for the healthy lifestyle. But guess what! Die Rauchfahne hat sich aufgeloest, and there are bars again that are licensed to cater to smokers (grand places, Irish owned for the most part). They serve YES! Islay single malts! No worries, you poor, cold Scots - the more things change, the more they stay the same. Just hold on (outside, in the beer garden) a wee bit longer.....

75

Chuckles,

08/12/2006 01:18:13

Ileach74 where is this??

76

Chuckles,

08/12/2006 01:19:54

David73 how many do you think are bothered by the smoke??

theyve been around it from day 1 in life!!!!

77

Colin,

Banff 08/12/2006 10:44:51

I see in todays news that a German ban is unconstitutional. It aint gonna happen.

A wee message to all the (previously) gloating anti smokers on here.....dont count your chickens before they hatch.

A happy day for democracy and the right to choose.

78

David from New Mills,

U.K. 08/12/2006 11:57:47

#63, Chuckles.
Para mi a las seis, il primo luglio sarà véritablement et sans doubt, ein wirklich ausgezeichneter Tag.
Monolingual readers should perhaps realise I'm looking forward to July 1st.

79

David from New Mills,

U.K. 08/12/2006 12:05:56

#77, Colin, Banff.
Colin should perhaps not be too presumptious, but recall how long it took for smoking restrictions to apply in this country. What would have been unthinkable only a few years go has happened.
Some countries are just a wee bittie slower than others in choosing the inevitable correct path.

80

David from New Mills,

U.K. 08/12/2006 12:10:23

#76,Chuckles.
Lots, but things are slowly getting better.

81

Ileach,

08/12/2006 15:57:39

Chuckles #75 that is in Dallas, Texas. Come see me at the Idle Rich Pub, and I'll stand you a Bruichladdich. Slainte! You can smoke to your heart's delight.

82

David from New Mills,

U.K. 08/12/2006 19:39:34

#74 & 81, Ileach.
I should have realised that Chuz didn't look very German, and guessed that Donnie probably meant Tschüß, but then English spelling, let alone German, has never been his strong point.
Es lebe eine rauchfreie Welt, auch in Dallas. Fährt die Smintair Gesellschaft noch dorthin für den jungen Karl E.?

83

Donnie,

08/12/2006 19:53:28

David,
da Sie ein wenig unten heute abend I ohne die Hilfe meiner Schwester scheinen, erklärt, was Chuz bedeutet. Sein anderes Wort für Beifall, wenn Sie mit einem Freund gesprochen werden. Es wird normalerweise in der Publikation verwendet und es ist durchaus ein allgemeines Wort, Sie und Ihr Freund sind offensichtlich nicht nach Deutschland viel gewesen.

84

Donnie,

08/12/2006 19:56:01

David

Ich werde nicht Dallas besichtigen, aber ich werde Smintair so bald wie möglich Chuz verwenden

85

David from New Mills,

U.K. 08/12/2006 20:10:31

#60, Mandy, Cambs.
Cubblies=Chubbies?
I don't think I've ever gone on about ventilation, preferring to leave that argument to the likes of Colin and _-Steve-_. Anyway, cui bono? Bill Gibson, for sure!
Pubs and bingo halls, like small corner shops, have been closing for years, for various reasons. It's called evolution.
Pubs took the easy "AIR" way out in the past. Now they're having to try harder. Hope this tells Mandy something.
I'm neither angry nor insane. Why should others be?

86

David from New Mills,

U.K. 08/12/2006 21:55:43

#62, Chuckles.
For the sake of monolingual readers and my imperfect Italian, I shall respond in English. I do not think I have posted any "claptrap" to Carlo. Re his praise of ventilation systems, I would simply say "Cui bono? - Bill Gibson, certamente!
I do not think I have ever been personally offensive towards Belinda, so I would not deign to comment on his remarks about her. As they are apparently fellow "Big Debaters", she should perhaps refer to him for a translation, or probably might be better not to.
I actually had to consult my dictionary frequently, as I was not familiar with so much vulgarity in Italian.
Perhaps the sooner coarse young Carlo jets off home , the better.

87

David from New Mills,

U.K. 08/12/2006 22:28:17

#83/84, Donnie.
Ich bedanke mich bei dem Donnie, für seine Erklärung über das Wort "Chuz", aber ich konnte das in meinem Wörterbuch nicht finden.
Weil ich nicht neulich in Deutschland gewesen bin, könnte dies ein Beispiel des heutiges Slangs, oder vielleicht ein Dialektwort aus der Nähe sein?
Gute Reise mit der Smintairfahrt, wenn das je passiert!

88

Donnie,

09/12/2006 11:58:28

Oh the flight with Smintair will definitely happen, carn wait yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

89

Belinda-2,

Edinburgh 09/12/2006 12:17:24

David

Distribution of milk etc included everybody didn't it? As far as being a nanny state is concerned it might have included those who could afford their own milk and vitamins anyway. But I don't find that a particular problem.

Since the result was intended to be general improvement of health, but not at anybody's expense or to the exclusion of anybody, it is not a parallel with a smoking ban which is an ill-judged attempt to improve general health by making smokers stand outside in the cold, while still heavily taxing them and (in a side swipe) threatening to withhold certain forms of medical treatment. Such treatment of anybody would rightly have been unthinkable in the 1940s because at that time we could still remember how valuable everybody in the population was to us.

90

David from New Mills,

U.K. 09/12/2006 17:55:12

#88, Donnie.
Donnie may have to be just a little patient.

91

David from New Mills,

U.K. 09/12/2006 18:13:39

#89, Belinda, Edinburgh.
I think Belinda is aware that the distribution of milk, orange juice, and other medications was purely dependent on the age of the applicants, and not means tested.
She has opted not to suggest which of my scenarios at #72 is the most realistic.
Smokers are not forced to stand out in the cold, except by their cruel addiction.
There was not a general awareness in the 40s of how harmful and obnoxious smoking was, although Hitler may have had just the merest glimmering of some realisation of its effects.
Playing the "poor war veterans" card does no justice to Belinda's attempted arguments.


 

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