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Brown: I will save the union

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Published Date: 25 March 2007
GORDON Brown last night revealed he was placing himself at the heart of Labour's Holyrood election campaign, declaring it was his "duty" to save the Union from the SNP.
In an exclusive interview with Scotland on Sunday, Brown pledged to spend the six weeks before polling day "explaining and exposing" the Nationalists' "disastrous" plans.

The Chancellor ruled out any plans to give more power to the Scottish Parliament saying it was not necessary.

Instead, Brown - now almost certain to become Prime Minister later this year - revealed he wanted to create a deeper partnership between England and Scotland than ever before.

Brown's salvo comes with the Scottish Parliament preparing to dissolve on Thursday, to make way for what is widely expected to be the most keenly fought campaign in its short history. Election day is set for May 3.

Current polls show the SNP are as much as six points ahead of Labour, and within touching distance of their dream of power. With the Nationalists in the ascendency, Labour campaign insiders say they fear voters in several key seats are already slipping from their grasp to the SNP. The seats include Glasgow Govan, seen as a key 'bellwether' constituency, and the scene of previous famous Nationalist victories.

But Brown said he would now be focusing on slashing the SNP's lead. In the interview, he said:

"I think I have got a duty over to tell people about both the benefits that the Scottish economy can have in the future if we can focus our attention on education and on science and innovation, as against the problems and the difficulties we would have with the disastrous policies of the SNP."

He added: "I feel very strongly that anything that puts the hard-earned prosperity of the Scottish economy at risk has got to be explained and exposed."

Brown's status as Labour leader-in-waiting was confirmed last night after Leader of the Commons Jack Straw wrote to Labour MPs to inform them that he would be leading Brown's campaign once Tony Blair finally leaves Downing Street.

In his letter to the MPs, Straw declares that Brown is "supremely well qualified" to lead the nation. He added: "It will be a personal pleasure for me to help ensure Gordon Brown becomes the next Prime Minister."

Over the coming weeks, Brown is expected to give several keynote speeches throughout the campaign, including one alongside former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan.

The Chancellor conceded the Natonalists had been hard to pin down so far in the campaign. He said: "It takes time for the argument to become clear because the SNP don't want to talk about independence. The SNP want to avoid difficult questions."

He also claimed his increased role did not mean he was to take over the campaign. He insisted that Jack McConnell was "the leader of the campaign". However, he then set out the party's plans to oppose more powers for Holyrood. He said: "The issue for the parliament and the election manifesto of the Labour Party is how existing powers are better and best used."

He went on: "What Labour is looking to is greater partnership between the devolved parliament and the UK government."

A spokesman for the SNP said: "The SNP welcome Gordon Brown's involvement in the Scottish election - particularly now that his Budget has bombed as people realise that taxes are actually going up, and it becomes clear that it will hit low-paid workers in Scotland particularly hard. It also just confirms that Labour don't think Jack McConnell is up to the job of running his own campaign."

He added: "Brown is also making a big mistake in rejecting from on high more powers for the Scottish Parliament. In so doing, he is painting Labour into a corner backed by only 12% of people in Scotland, and rejecting the consensus for more powers supported by 70% of Scots."

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 March 2007 7:22 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: The union
 
1

Jemima,

north of scotland 25/03/2007 00:01:54

Does this mean that Gordon Brown will now be coming to debate with Alex Salmond? Or will it still be Jack McConnell? Either way I look forward to hearing what they have to offer us in place of the proposals of the SNP - for me personally - there is no choice, it's SNP all the way. We are on the brink of being free to govern ourselves - this scaremongering from the Labour party is all they have left. We have all said it a hundred times, if we are such a bunch of losers up here, why oh why are they so desperate to hold on to us?

2

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 25/03/2007 00:11:26

Brown declaring it was his "duty" to save the Union from the SNP is vanity gone belly-up. Bog off Brown. It is the Scottish people you are browning off, not any imaginary saving from the SNP or the tooth fairy, or Cowdenbeath FC.

He is seeking to cover his own precious @rse with all that Britishness tosh. Grousing because his grinning idiot erstwhile pal Blair duffed him over. Please don't insult your fellow Scots, Gordon, it's game over.

3

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 25/03/2007 00:13:49

Brown declaring it was his "duty" to save the Union from the SNP is vanity gone belly-up. Bog off Brown. It is the Scottish people you are browning off, not any imaginary saving from the SNP or the tooth fairy, or Cowdenbeath FC.

He is seeking to cover his own precious standing with all that Britishness tosh. Grousing because his grinning idiot erstwhile pal Blair duffed him over. Please don't insult your fellow Scots, Gordon, it's game over.

4

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 25/03/2007 00:15:16

Brown declaring it was his "duty" to save the Union from the SNP is vanity gone belly-up. Please. It is the Scottish people you are browning off, not any imaginary saving from the SNP or the tooth fairy, or Cowdenbeath FC.

He is seeking to cover his own precious position with all that Britishness tosh. Grousing because his grinning idiot erstwhile pal Blair duffed him over. Please don't insult your fellow Scots, Gordon, it's game over.

5

,

25/03/2007 00:16:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 472895, Article id was mapped to record!
6

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 00:16:52

"Instead, Brown - now almost certain to become Prime Minister later this year - revealed he wanted to create a deeper partnership between England and Scotland than ever before. "

Exactly what does he mean? Surely that would require the Scottish parliament to be dissolved permanently.

BEWARE of Gordons plans for:

- A Great Britain football team (3 lions on the shirt)
- Merging of the Scottish and English Legal Systems
- Team Great Britain competing at the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow
- Amalgamation of the Registrars of Companies

7

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 25/03/2007 00:17:07

Brown declaring it was his "duty" to save the Union from the SNP is vanity gone belly-up. Bog off Brown. It is the Scottish people you are browning off, not any imaginary saving from the SNP or the tooth fairy, or Cowdenbeath FC.

He is seeking to cover his own precious @rse with all that Britishness tosh. Grousing because his grinning idiot erstwhile pal Blair duffed him over. Please don't insult your fellow Scots, Gordon, it's game over.

8

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 25/03/2007 00:18:41

I have been censored. OK, who was it?

9

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 25/03/2007 00:20:40

Scaramouche, help me out here. They, via somebody or other, have blanked me. It's a bit Stalinist I think.

10

Angus Lindsay,

Mongolia 25/03/2007 00:21:14

Brown declaring it was his "duty" to save the Union from the SNP is vanity gone belly-up. Bog off Brown. It is the Scottish people you are browning off, not any imaginary saving from the SNP or the tooth fairy, or Cowdenbeath FC.

He is seeking to cover his own precious @rse with all that Britishness tosh. Grousing because his grinning idiot erstwhile pal Blair duffed him over. Please don't insult your fellow Scots, Gordon, it's game over.

11

macdonaj,

Aberdeen Scotland 25/03/2007 00:21:28

Superman Brown to the rescue! It is his duty to save the Scots' from themselves.
Alas! If Brown does become the PM I for one shall be
saying - heaven help us.This man is quite prepared to
sell Scotland down the river to further his political
ambitions.

12

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 00:24:22

Edinburgh was swamped by a plague of rabid flea-ridden vermin yesterday but there's no space to comment on that report.

13

AJ,

Fife 25/03/2007 00:24:35

It's no fair - A wiz comment no3 last time a looked!!!

btw, I'm ashamed Broon claims to be a Fifer - a Rovers wan tho'......that might explain it!!!:)

14

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 25/03/2007 00:25:05

Save yourself Gordon. The English don't want you, your fellow Scots don't want you. What's left?

15

AJ,

Fife 25/03/2007 00:26:57

How come a posted comment 16 before comment 14?

Clock changes - fairly a*rse awhing up....eh?

16

AJ,

Fife 25/03/2007 00:28:44

It's aw gone mental.....must be the Highland Park!!!

17

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 00:38:20

Even the civil service knows Gordon Brown is just passing water in the wind so to speak.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=757&id=462212007

18

urban poacher,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 00:40:04

Brown should remember to mention how much he liked Gazza goal against Scots when debating with the SNP. he isn't wanted down there and he isn't wanted up here, perhaps he should advertise on ebay, there must be some country needing a chancellor, hear Zimbabwe has problems with inflation perhaps he could go there.

good to see this fine newspaper keeping up it pro labour line nothing like slavish following of the labour party even when it is discredited.

19

,

25/03/2007 00:44:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

AJ,

Fife 25/03/2007 00:45:35

Broon could claim a place in the history books - the PM who presided over the beginning of the end of the Union!!!

We can but hope!!

21

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 00:48:18

Ever see the movie dumb and dumber? Well I found a rare photo.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=757&id=417892007

22

,

25/03/2007 00:50:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

David Armour,

Ayr 25/03/2007 00:56:48

Gordon wants to save the union, I think we should be saving Scotland from this failing dependency culture.

I'm voting SNP this time.

24

IWright,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 00:56:56

Tally ho Gordon...

25

McGinty,

Abdn 25/03/2007 00:58:20

Come on Scots, sock it to him, the man's a Thatcherite and there's a million other criticisms of him that should be going on this board, vote Monster Raving Loony if you have to, anyone but him

26

,

25/03/2007 00:58:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

Saltire,

China 25/03/2007 02:06:23

It is very heartening to see the unanimity of opinion on this board.
But where are the unionist opinions? How can we have a good rammy if we don't have anybody to argue with? :-)
But if, as Labour suggest, Scotland is too small to govern itself then what of the following countries Denmark 5,419,432
Slovakia 5,387,001
Finland 5,246,096
Scotland 5,094,800
Norway 4,623,291
Croatia 4,443,343
Ireland 4,159,096
Lithuania 3,414,304
Latvia 2,300,512
Macedonia 2,036,855
Slovenia 2,000,474
Estonia 1,346,097
Cyprus 757,795
Luxembourg 457,250
Malta 403,507
Iceland 296,734
Liechtenstein 34,753
Should they be wiped off the map? No, of course not. I think it is Labour who should be wiped off the map for insulting the people of Scotland by inferring that they are less capable than the above nations.

28

INTER-nationalist,

25/03/2007 02:25:44

If the sheer hatred towards a fellow Scot expressed on this thread is in any way indicative of the thinking of the SNP then god help us all if they ever form the government of Scotland.

Is this what it's going to be like? If you hate one of your fellow countrymen so much what are you going to be like towards the close to a million non-Scots living in Scotland?

29

U. Lukenatmepal?,

25/03/2007 02:34:16

I had a think before posting this - I hope that's not in breach of the SoS terms and conditions.

In hindsight, New Labour made a huge tactical blunder with devolution. It was intended to be a sop to the Scots and Welsh Nationalists, giving them toy parliaments to play in, like sand boxes, with no real power. Instead, the Independence genie is now out of the bottle, and there is a real chance that the SNP will become the majority party in Scotland, leading to New Labour losing its majority in in the UK / England / wherever the boundaries are re-drawn.

This is why Gordon Brown et al are so worried.

On the other hand, the Nationalists are basing their approach on "Things Can Only Get Better", as used to great success by New Labour in 1997. This has the advantages of playing well to the crowd, not requiring any hard evidence to back it up, and providing the voters with "New, Improved Formula" politics - just like soap powder in the supermarket. Nobody ever lost an election by underestimating the attention span of the electorate.

Unfortunately, and here's the rub, there is no guarantee that the SNP will deliver anything. Just think of New Labour's wasted decade since 1997. And do re-read George Orwell's 'Animal Farm', for a satire on mid-20th Century Russian politics that is just as relevant to Scotland today.

30

Saltire,

China 25/03/2007 02:35:45

#31 Don't be so sensitive. He's a politician. That is what they are there for - isn't it? :-)
As regards the non-Scots (your words) living in Scotland - I understood the SNP policy was to welcome them as Scots and, indeed the support of the non-Scots for devolution and independence is surprisingly high. So I guess they do not share your fears

31

Jemima,

north of scotland 25/03/2007 02:39:00

It's not hatred #31, in regard to Gordon Brown, it's disgust. I for one, get on well with other people in general, and as I said tonight on another board, I cannot get over how many English people, and Balkan immigrants, will be voting SNP this May - does that answer your question? we get on well with people, and it will be even better when we have power in our parliament too. Scotland welcomes people into it's fold.

32

Freeman Stand,

25/03/2007 02:42:36

31. I'm an internationalist too but Gordon Brown's utter desperation to create a sense of Britishness in his quest for power is simply sick making.

He's lost all credibility with the voters in England who can see through him. No matter how hard he's tried to hide it he's part of the Cabinet who took us into an illegal war and is continuing to bankroll it, he's all for spending untold billions on Trident and his tuppence off the income tax can now be seen to be a sham.

33

Bill, Dunblane,

25/03/2007 03:14:00

If nothing else Gordon, you will come to regret Gazza's goal 'till the day you die.

Unfortunately (for you) you made it simple enough for Record readers to understand.

That, and your arrogant 'Mussolini' pose, your head back, looking down your nose at your own people.

You're going to spend the next six weeks 'saving the union' - I, and MANY like me, have spent our entire lives fighting for our country's independence.

You've just made sure we redouble our efforts.

Bring it on!

34

Cynic,

Dalkeith 25/03/2007 03:22:19

OH, NO YOU WON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And don't expect to be the prime minsiter for too long. Folk are weary of Labour lies.

35

,

25/03/2007 04:01:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
36

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 25/03/2007 04:12:37

#31. INTER-nationalist

You are overly sensitive about "the sheer hatred towards a fellow Scot".

Please see the reality. Brown is a self-serving politician, nothing more, nothing less. For that alone his own people (us) dislike - not hate - him for what he purports to be.

This slobbering, grovelling, politician has been nursing a grudge against his rictus grinning tosser of a colleague Blair for a very long time and has used the wrong tactics to try to win over an electorate north and south of the border which equally sees through his embarrassing methods.

Enough ... Let's move on.

#38 Dragonhead .. how goes it in Dalian, buddy?

37

response,

Syd 25/03/2007 04:21:22

Och here we go again, bla bla bla don't argue aboot it just do it when the time comes, the english have got broon in thier pocket. c-mon Scotland Independence.

38

Graham Simpson,

Vancouver and Edinburgh 25/03/2007 05:05:49

I don't hate Gordon Brown, I don't even dislike him, simply because I've never met him...But I do pity him!

Here's a relatively young man poised on the highest peak of his career, facing the mind numbing, sickening reality that he has backed the wrong horse and blown his entire political capital.. He knows that his descent will be quick and ignomious both in England and Scotland and that May 3rd will be the beginning of that precipitous fall.

He's probably a decent enough chap but apart from blowing it on the patently unpopular Iraq and Trident 2 policies, from which ironically he could have escaped, he now chooses to fall on his sword with a frontal attack on Scottish Independence.

When will any Scottish politician realise that devolution was only the beginning... a small ember glowing in the dark, imperiously dismissed by Blair in his infamous put down of the Scottish Parliament as no better than a Parish Council.

Well Gordon he's gone now... leaving you with a bitter legacy and a roaring fire which you will never put out!

Welcome back to Scotland, particularly on May 3rd.

39

Guga,

Rockall 25/03/2007 05:08:55

Well, that's Broon getting on his St. George underpants again, and coming to take over from wee Joke McConnell, as he obviously thinks wee Joke is too incompetent to fight the election for himself.

He doesn't seem to realise that its not just the Scots that want nothing to do with him, the New Labour numpties or his kleptocracy, the English don't want anything to do with him either.

He can't save the union, as there is nothing worth saving. I suggest that he follows Bliar to America as I'm sure they'll find a job for him there. Nobody else wants him.

It's time. Saor Alba.

40

Brianwci,

www.edinburghtechniques.co.uk 25/03/2007 06:06:22

Gordon brown is one of the sharpest minds in world politics today, but he has sorely misjudged the Scots position on the Union.

5 years ago I would have seen him focusing on saving the Union as a major problem for the SNP, but a new spirit has emerged in the Scottish psyche, anew awareness of their own abilities and powers, a new confidence from which they will not be browbeaten by someone of Gordon Brown's stature.

Indeed his attitude is more likely to drive moderate voters into the SNP camp, as I am sure those Orange marchers supporting the Union did yesterday.

It looks like game over Gordon.

It's Time. Vote SNP on May 3d.

41

Harriet,

25/03/2007 06:14:52

Did Brown support Scotland against Georgia - his pal Stalin's home country?

Or is he still wedded to supporting England to win the cup?

But of course this highlights a difficulty for him.

Both England and Scotland can do well when they play to their individual strengths. It actually is not about one beating the other except on the rare occasions when they are matched.

What we do know that if they play as one team, Scotland play a minor role, secondary and subservient.

We see that with growth rates lower than the UK as a whole over a thirty year period. Why? Not because of an inherent lack of ability - all the small countries of Europe who do so well demonstrate that small size can mean success - but because policies have, quite naturally, to be skewed towards the larger partner so that the partnership makes the biggest gain.

Having policies that favour the larger partner is rational because it maximises the gain for the partnership. But it always means the smaller partner will under-achieve.

That is why both England and Scotland will benefit from a partnership defined via the EU where each is an independent country.

The arguament is little or nothing about the Union because the union that matters is a social and monarchical one. That continues undisturbed. Indeed it is strengthened because it removes that growing sense of grudge on England's part of their subsiding, so Labour tells them, Scotland by £5,000 a head each year.

It ain't true of course except by defining half the UK's expenditure as being spent on behalf of us all, except that it is not.

Stronger as individuals, able to play to our strengths. Weaker together when we have adapt policies to reflect the needs of the other.

Only those with a stake in a continuing political union are fighting tooth and nail for their jobs.

The rest of us have moved on.

Brown off.

42

Maisie,

25/03/2007 06:19:56

44. Brianwci

Hehe, when I heard the unionist marched through Edinburgh to clebrate the union, I cringed for a split second and was even ashamed BUT then I thought, this is fantastic, the march must have turned plenty moderates to think about voting SNP lol

As for Browns utterances, all predictable, we know it was coming and it wont stop until May the 3rd, I treat it with the disdain it derserves, I am voting rationally not because I am silly enough to be scared into chosing where my vote goes. Nope, still SNP for me George. You have become the wolf who cries sheep and the sheep will graze on new patures in May.

43

Bob Grigson,

Aberdeen 25/03/2007 06:35:11

The irony of Broon's position is that to have a chance of being successfull he needs to say less about being British! His standing both North and South of the border was considerably better before he embarked on his tilt at Windmills about Britishness.
One of the strengths of Britishness appears to be it's unstatedness. It is not neccesary to mention it. It just simply is. Broon's Britishness just comes across as Brutishness and looks rather ugly.
It also appears that he'll be greetin along with Gazza in the semi-finals after all!

44

Heidegger,

Fife 25/03/2007 06:40:23

Gordon should be thanked for so generously
volunteering to help the SNP. That AND
Raith Rovers!

45

davydee,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 06:47:43

Yes Gordon you will try along with your puppet Joke McConnell by any means so much for labour stamping out sectarism but allowing an orange march but oh their unionists and its good PR against SNP so thats ok let the people decide at the ballot box I have voted Labour all my life but I am sick to death of this corrupt and sleazy labour party that I will vote for SNP so hopefully if SNP win its odds on that Labour will be ousted in England roll on May I think you will see a bigger than usual turnout at the polls

46

The Strategist,

25/03/2007 06:49:26

I'd certainly like to hear him explain why he's raised corporation tax for 98% of Scottish businesses.

47

Ian_,

usa 25/03/2007 06:52:49

Brown is trying to deliver Scotland to England in return for becoming PM. He is a disgrace to Scotland - a shallow, desperate, English sycophant. Maybe he's cleverer than I think and sacrificing himself for the Scottish cause, but I doubt it. It's much more likely that Scotland is being sacrificed for his cause. In my experience of living overseas for 27 years Scotland is seen by foreigners as part of England. For example, to many Americans (and I'm referring to plenty that I've met), Scotland is part of England just as (say) Delaware is part of the US.

48

Dod fae Orkney,

In the hoose 25/03/2007 06:59:30

Thing is Gordie needs a Labour Scotland far more than we need him. Without the Scottish MPs, Labour will never form another UK government and bang goes his chances off absolute power.
No Broon, you can kiss my ar$e. I will be voting SNP in May and I would urge everyone else to do the same.
Roll on May

49

Archie MacT,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 07:09:06

oh the bitterness and bile spouted forth on the rest of this thread. I am also looking forward to May when IT WILL BE TIME...

Time for all you keyboard warriors to eat some humble pie again as the Nats yet again crash and burn. When will you learn?

50

rose99,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 07:09:55

He can just stay down in England where he belongs, hes shown us he doesn't believe in Scotland and would pick England above Scotland ( football etc)

51

Cadgers,

Perth 25/03/2007 07:20:42

"My duty"??? His duty is to wear his St Georges underpants on his head. Not that he needs to up
here, everyone now knows him for what he is.
Roll on May

52

I've had enough,

Falkirk 25/03/2007 07:23:32

How long does it take? why do so many Scots think that we have to continue to be belittled abd run by Westminster? We are more than capable to run our beloved Scotland. We are self sufficient, we have oil, good farmland etc. etc.
As it stands Holyrood is a farce. Too many Scots thought we would be on our own to manage our beloved Scotland not to sit back and continue to be dictated to by Westminster.
Get off your lazy buts and recognise that we are more than self sufficient. Remember the words of "flower of Scotland" Rise up and be( a proud )nation again!!
Vote SNP. We CAN do it lesser countries have.
Keep in mind that during the olypics etc. when an English person is doing well we are told "good old England" BUT, when a Scot is doing well they are British. TAKE A LONG HARD THINK SCOTLAND WE CAN DO IT.

53

Phil C,

25/03/2007 07:26:23

Brown: I will have a sh*te!

54

Ian G,

Nationalist and Internationalist 25/03/2007 07:28:29

31 Everyone living in Scotland is entitled to vote.
No matter their religion: creed; colour or country of origin.

I ken fine that folks from as far as Australia: Canada; Pakistan, Wales, Ireland and England are standing for election for the SNP in May.

Scotland's history is full of people who put their own interests before the peoples first Gordon Brown is one of them.

Divide and rule is still going on in Scotland.
S.N.P. 'say no to the pope'
S.N.P. = Orange Lodge.
Catholics think the SNP are Orange-men.
Orange men think the SNP desire Rome Rule.

Lords; Peers and Scots politicians always put their own interests first. One does NOT join the SNP for a career in politics, you join the Labour mafia [Tartan Tories] for that. Its well known that a monkey wearing a red roseate can be elected in Scotland.

Kerr Hardie and others campaigned for Scottish Independence and one hundred years on labour have NOT deliverd.
The Independence movement is never going to go away. The S.N.P. is going to go on and on Independence will come, the Unionists can only delay the day it will come.
I think Its Time to do it NOW and stop pussyfooting around delaying what must surely come.

Gordon Brown as his own agenda it does NOT include us Scots.

But if, as Labour suggest, Scotland is too small to govern itself then what of the following countries Denmark 5,419,432
Slovakia 5,387,001
Finland 5,246,096
Scotland 5,094,800
Norway 4,623,291
Croatia 4,443,343
Ireland 4,159,096
Lithuania 3,414,304
Latvia 2,300,512
Macedonia 2,036,855
Slovenia 2,000,474
Estonia 1,346,097
Cyprus 757,795
Luxembourg 457,250
Malta 403,507
Iceland 296,734
Liechtenstein 34,753
What are we afraid of?

55

williamx,

delta 25/03/2007 07:32:58

Brown has no worries. He knows that after 300 years of the Scottish elite putting it to their fellow Scots nothing will happen. The History of Scotland I read as a school boy 65 years ago was slanted to blame the English for a situation where the Scottish elite needed to deflect criticism from their own games. Nothing will change. And when it comes time for the election in May you can guarantee the Scots will not give an adequate vote to the SNP to change things because they are to scared of change themselves. I wonder what the English bookies are giving on the split up of the UK?

56

Paul Voltaire,

www.paulvoltaire.spaces.live.com 25/03/2007 07:35:24

Some of us are actually proud to be British and wish to remain so.
There is nothing wrong with that at all.

57

eric,

25/03/2007 07:38:19

Bye labour.

58

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 07:42:09

no31#you are talking P,my wife is english and she is in favour of Scotland going it alone.So don't talk of things that are beyond you

59

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 07:43:03

Live in England then no60#

60

Ian G,

Nationalist and Internationalist 25/03/2007 07:44:40

I'm against Nuclear Power its not safe Scotland does NOT need it. It costs money we can save.
The SNP agree with me.
I'm against the war in Iraq we should never have sent our boys over. They need equipment not nuclear subs.
The SNP agree with me.
I'm against Weapons of Mass Destruction being kept in Scotland. Keep em in England and let them pay for them.
The SNP agree with me.
I don't see Scots as subsidy junkies and belive that a small country of over 5 Million in the E.U. can be a success.
The SNP agree with me.
Its that simple.
Vote S.N.P. come May 3RD.
One all ballot papers make the SNP your first choice.

61

musicismylife,

25/03/2007 07:52:55

#10. Scaramouche is under orders to stay in bed today as he isn't feeling very great. But, I can tell you, Angus, that he has no idea about how or why the Scotsman goes about removing posts. He is still very angry that he was banned and had to revert to creating Scaramouche2 to get back online.

As for the PM-in-waiting, Gordy is behaving like his party here in Scotland. They have developed hearing problems to go with the thick skins they need.

Who does he think he is? He's saying HE knows better than anyone else and will SAVE us despite ourselves. Messiah complex??? But then, he's the son of a minister, isn't he?? And he talks down to us like a teacher!

Pompous Ass! Time for him to be shown the exit!!!

You and Blair orchestrated the theft of the Labour Party. You've had 10 years. And now ... Time's up!

62

eric,

Lothian 25/03/2007 07:53:22

My European frends thought the Marchers in Edinburgh were English folk protesting .

63

Phil C,

25/03/2007 07:57:28

#60 Voltaire

Geographically you are British. Most of us live in the British Isles (a few dodgy ex-pat posters aside). You can be Scottish AND as British as you like. Many are sick to death of being lumped in with the English though. England won't go away after independence. They'll be our best friends and business\trading partners....and you can still be British. If you want to be English, like Brown-nose, that's a different matter.

Politically,it's time. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

64

Salt Horse,

Napoli 25/03/2007 07:58:36

I'm sickened by this comment from BROWN who the hell does he think he is, he's too fat to sit on a white charger and come to the Union's aid! That is the single most arrogant statement I've ever heard from a human being. He may think he's gifted at being a politician but he showed a few days ago how he really feels about the less financially blessed members of Scotland's society.

The Union is on it's knees and shortly it will be sent to it's death, somewhat overdue but necessary. To insult us Scots' intelligence and ability to look after ourselves, and to try and cheat us from OUR future, because Independence is where our destiny lies, reach out people and grab it because if we miss this opportunity we may have to wait an awful long time for another chance.......................or maybe not!

Let us tread our new path away from the Union and the sooner the better, I feel it will be a bloody fight to be free but worth it.

Scotland Forever

65

allan58,

edinburgh 25/03/2007 08:04:37

Time for what Archie MacT? Gordon Brown & Tony Blair between them have presided over the biggest betrayal of national hopes in my living memory. They are Tories in all but name. Scotland showed the Tories what it thought of them in 1997 & hopefully will treat the new Tories the same way.
John Smith must be turning in his grave at the way"New" Labour has sold out in order to stay in power.

Brown is only interested in Scotland for reasons of political expediency. The Labour vote in England is collapsing and the slimy worm is hoping that Scotland will shore up the UK Labour vote.

Not this time. I am no Nationalist but, I am quite prepared to vote Nationalist if it means defeating Labour.
Angus Lindsay - keep up the good work. They can't censor you forever& they can't censor all of us either!

Obviously whoever tried to censor is afraid of the horrible truth!

66

Ian G,

Nationalist and Internationalist 25/03/2007 08:09:38

One can be proud to be a Scandinavian where all the countries can come together to agree policy, what is common to all.

Being Danish or Norwegian does not make one any-less Scandinavian.

The Irish come and go across the Irish sea without difficulty, the aircraft and ferries will still be making the journey after Scotland gains its independence.
I know many Irish people who work in Scotland but go home at weekends. It would not change why would it?
Hello! There are English people who live in France but work in England, its a fact. And get this France is separate from England that too is a fact.
Polish people work in Scotland but home is Poland, Poland is Independent from Scotland, its a fact.
When Scotland becomes Independent the Irish and Polish people will still come here, Scots will still work in England but live in Scotland.
English people who live in England but cross the border to work in Scotland would not change why on earth would it?

Scotland replaces Westminster rule after 300 years with Holyrood rule.
Its that simple!

Result No more illegal wars.
No nuclear subs.
We represent ourselves in the E.U.
No unsafe nuclear power stations, Scotland does NOT need the energy.
No David Cameron.
The end to the council tax.
Its that simple!

67

Cant use my name anymore-Alex,

Prisoner of the Machine 25/03/2007 08:10:13

Isnt life tough. Its all about hard choices. Ive always seen Alex salmond as a self serving pompous numpty with little in the way of ideas, however I see Joke McConnel in a similar light and think that maybe theres a hint of the Nazi about him.
I absolutely dont want another Labour government and yet am unsure of the SNP with Salmond in charge. I guess its take a chance time and live dangerously in the hope that Salmond either turns out to be a great leader or gets found out PDQ.

68

rab, glasgow,

25/03/2007 08:11:30

Too late gordan much too late even to save your own erse, good bye.

69

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News Room 25/03/2007 08:15:59

......and the news is not good for Gordon, a straw poll of quite a few Fifers last night found that 18 out of 20 were entirely opposed to Greedy Grabbit Gordon.

The busget - now exposed and unravelled, seems to have been the final straw, and since this has been recognised by even his (now ex) loyal supporters, for its unfairness to the poor, they are now fully aware of his false claims to be a socialist.

So in summary

Not wanted in Fife
Not wanted in Scotland
Not wanted in England
Not wanted inthe Cabinet
Not wanted in No 10

Roll on May 03rd

70

Aged SNP Voter,

Fife (fae Dundee) 25/03/2007 08:44:23

You've probably had the VoteScotland leaflet through the door. Here are some helpful websites http://www.votescotland.com/stv/CCC_FirstPage.jsp
(and for fun)
http://www.votescotland.com/stv/vote-scotland-game.htm
(not forgetting) http://www.snp.org/
and a guide to who,what, where & when
http://www.snp.org/people
http://www.snp.org/people/candidates
mine will be...
http://www.snp.org/people/parliamentarians/tricia-marwick...

And finally, canvassing is not difficult and from experience - it definately makes you feel as if you have done something and fullfilled your place in history. It's Time.

and I'll say it again. I will be voting SNP.

71

Real kilts,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 08:46:35

Grabbit Brown F@uck off

72

morris,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 08:53:47

The budget was a crude con which has absolutely nothing to do with what once was the Labour Party.Any tendency toward socialism is dead and buried.Any body who votes New Labour,should be classified as one of the following:
a) Tory b) Idiot
There is no Labour Party.
Those who think it can be resurrected are even more naive.To achieve power it must win seats in the Tory heartland of Southern England. It cannot win seats in both North and South any more and the division is there in unmistakable fashion.
We have a divided island and the sensible thing to do is divide it up.
Broon is not guaranteed a seat at the General election, any more.he really is out of touch if he thinks he can save the Union,Its already dissolved Gordon,
1st step May 3rd . more to follow.

73

GrahamH,

25/03/2007 08:58:35

Finland, Norway and most certainly Ireland are best examples of what a small country can achieve, although Finland is over reliant on Nokia and Russian neighbours taking a keen interest in construction industry there.

What get's me is Labour think we all have short memories, only 2 weeks ago Wee Jack said he wouldn't debate Salmond because he was a Westminster politician and now they bring Brown down to save Jack.

Scots know Wee Jack is lightweight, a quick fill in after disaster of Henry McLeish, they just don't have anyone else as in Scotland as all the best Scottish Labour brains are in Westminster, many at or near the top.

74

Phil C,

25/03/2007 08:59:16

#77 Morris - "Any body who votes New Labour,should be classified as one of the following:
a) Tory b) Idiot"

Don't insult Tories or idiots!

75

Brisbane Scot,

25/03/2007 09:03:46

As a keen follower of this comments area and true believer in Scotlands ability to govern itself better than Westminster, I must comment on what were my reasons to leave Scotland with my family for new horizons here in OZ with Fifth Six pounds in my pocket when I landed here, my pregnant wife and three year old son.

Let me firstly say it was in the era of Margaret the Murderer when many British people were being rationalized out of work and told to get on their bike to find jobs that did not exist. Scotland was occupied by them that had and did not care and them that did not have and were on the scrapheap. The bigotry between people because of religious backgroud, which area they came from was very real and used as a way of controlling the Scottish people through divisions in society. Scottish people were continually lied to and led to believe they were lower than most others in the UK.

As I said I landed here with very little in assets other than an inbuilt hunger to do the right thing by my family. Within 2 days of coming here I had 5 offers of employment. Within 3 weeks I had a car. Within 5 months I bought a detached house with a 30% deposit and was the proud father of another son. Today I have three business's own a number of properties and employ quite a few people who are valued and paid good wages. If any of you anglified unionists want to continue to cast doubt on the Scottish ability to be successful, I would be quite happy to match my record against yours. I will give this commitment to my fellow Scots. Whatever colour, religion you may be I promise to do all I can to assist the promotion of a successful Scotland by way of business opportunities, cultural education or donation of a reasonable amount of time and money to help ensure a Strong Independantly Governed Scotland. My god if we ever get the nerve and belief we could be dangerous. Lets not forget Gordon Brown and Blair did not attend the local schools that we did. They went to the sc

76

fifeis great,

kirkcaldy 25/03/2007 09:05:11

Long live gordon brown, how can anyone slag him with alex salmond as a leader? no thanks!

77

fifeis great,

raithrover 25/03/2007 09:06:56

Long live gordon brown, how can anyone slag him with alex salmond as a leader? no thanks!

78

Gordon,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 09:14:55

#58 - I didn't see any of the G8 countries in your list - you know they're the only ones that matter;-))

79

Mikey,

25/03/2007 09:17:48

Of course, this could all be reverse psychology frae Broon?

In his heart of hearts he must know that he's floggin a dead horse and his Brit crusade will fuel the end of the union.

If he actually believes this guff though, I really think he should be checking into the Royal Ed.

How can he be so out of touch? Oh yeah, he wants to be *nglish, doesn't he?

And Nero fiddled while Rome burned......

80

Steve,

Bo'ness 25/03/2007 09:24:04

81, "how can anyone slag him with Alex Salmond as a leader? no thanks!".

Sorry but that doesnt make sense, perhaps you were swilling too much Buckie at the 'Celebration of 300 years of the Union Orange Walk' yesterday?

Unless of course you're saying Alex Salmond is the de facto leader of the Scottish people? : )

81

Jonboy,

25/03/2007 09:24:57

Brown should seriously consider jumping ship and joining the SNP -

Maybe he could become Chancellor in Scotland's new independent Scotland....!!

82

Schmuel,

England 25/03/2007 09:25:04

31.INTER-nationalist / 3:25am 25 Mar 2007

Quote "If the sheer hatred towards a fellow Scot expressed on this thread is in any way indicative of the thinking of the SNP then god help us all if they ever form the government of Scotland." This is NOT hatred, it is people voicing their opinions and preferences and, as an Englishman I can say that now some Scots are realising how WE feel with all the Scots in Westminster.

"Is this what it's going to be like? If you hate one of your fellow countrymen so much what are you going to be like towards the close to a million non-Scots living in Scotland?" Brown has declared himself to be "British", Blair talks about "Britishness" - whatever that is! you show me ONE country called Britain and I will, reluctantly, accept their definitions - but remember! James VI was the one, so I read in history, who decided that "British" would become a 'Legal' term.

The average man in the street prefers his OWN nationality! Prescot told us that "English" as a nationality no longer exists but then he is WELSH - another foreigner in MY country.

Anyone who becomes a politician automatically puts themselves in a situation where they become a target for the public - it goes with the job, if they don't like it then GET OUT

83

Upbeat,

25/03/2007 09:25:31

30 Saltire China

You ask a rhetorical question

" But where are the unionist opinions? How can we have a good rammy if we don't have anybody to argue with? :-) "

Anybody who comes regularly on these boards to put valid and reasoned arguments in support of the existing status of the United Kingdom is routinely dismissed, personally insulted and subjected to harrasment.

This is no way to conduct an intelligent debate.

As many have said over the weeks, those who come here in support of the SNP, and who pounce on any and all who hold alternative viewpoints, have been doing considerable damage to the overall perception of the sort of Scotland that might be in store for us should the SNP acheive some level of power at Holyrood.

This type of attack on Freedom of Speech is becoming a very sinister aspect of this campaign.

The SNP supporters have collectively lost the chance to debate these points seriously here because the overwhelming majority of them are unable or refuse toexercise any level of tolerant respect, or to engage in a polite manner with any who would debate with them.

So the discussion here on these scotsman boards will remain one sided and generally impotent.

It's a sad day for Scotland when political discussions cannot be carried on in open forum in an intelligent and tolerant way. But this is the state of affairs we find on these boards.

For Scotland this is doubly unfortumate because of the way it reflects back by raising doubts about the SNP itself, because any worthwhile discussion is deliberately made more restricted than most respectful and reasonable people might wish.( mainly as a result of blanket "herd instinct posting" by SNP supporters )

84

redandwhitehoops,

25/03/2007 09:25:32

Brown's involvement is good news for the SNP, as he's as unpopular in Scotland as he is down South, especially after his Budget, and he's not to be trusted. It will also totally undermine Jack McConnell and the rest of the Labour cronies, as being not up to it. Thanks Gordon, roll on the Election.

85

morris,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 09:25:51

79
Appologies are in order here Phil.Sorry
I agree there is no need to insult the Tory Party, and I dare say I upset a few of the more sensitive idiots also!
81 and 82
Well said.Politically astute comment indeed!
How can Gordon possibly fail when he he has supporters with your intellect .
Actually we should be grateful for people like Fife is great,It shows the level of Labour voters thinking.Many will not wish to be associated with this absolutely zero content observation.

86

Steve,

Bo'ness 25/03/2007 09:26:24

Is that orbs I see in front of Broon?... it's a sign. Dont tell me, it's the ghost of King Billy.

87

Miss Jean Brodie,

25/03/2007 09:26:45

In an exclusive interview with Scotland on Sunday, Brown pledged to spend the six weeks before polling day "explaining and exposing" the Nationalists' "disastrous" plans.

The obvious point to this article has to be the above - Labours ability to expose their own (if they have any) positive plans for Scotland doesn’t enter into it eh?

More talk doon sh*te, implying the Scots are incapable.

Well it’s time to prove our capability by moving away from this arrogance, ignorance and complete blinkered nonsense that is the Union!

88

Thom,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 09:33:41

The best comments I read here at The Scotsman online, they all say it better then I could. It just makes me happy to hear the people speak their minds. It is simply time to own our Destiny, I am excited by the elections of the 3rd of May. Our men wouldn't be dying in Iraq if we were an independant nation, we wouldn't be fighting in an illegal war, and 200,000 pensioners wouldn't be struggling to make ends meet. Let's do all we can to get the vote out on the 3rd of May.

89

Birnamo,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 09:34:17

So the Brown emminence is imminent. His impact during the Dunfermline Bye Bye for Labour should raise the morale of the Unionists to new heights and leave Alex Salmond shaking in his shoes !

90

CJO,

The Maghreb 25/03/2007 09:38:07

Brown's posturing will do nothing to enhance his longevity as PM when he takes over from Blair this year. However, it should help to hasten English independence as the English get more and more hacked off with Labour. England will go it alone and Scotland will be free to do what it likes. The Scots will not vote for indepepndence, irrespective of the protest vote in May.

Devolution has turned into Labour's Trojan horse, just this time they built it themselves as an offering to themselves. Talk about a political own goal.

91

Lochnagar,

North Yorkshire 25/03/2007 09:38:22

God save us all from the boredom and monotony of Gordon Brown!

92

Schmuel,

England 25/03/2007 09:41:44

51. Ian_, usa / 7:52am 25 Mar 2007

Quote "Brown is trying to deliver Scotland to England in return for becoming PM. He is a disgrace to Scotland - a shallow, desperate, English sycophant." Do you MIND? 1-Do NOT insult the English or sycophants. 2-It is unfortunate that he is a Scot (for them not him) and I would advise you NOT to insult Scots.

"Maybe he's cleverer than I think and sacrificing himself for the Scottish cause, but I doubt it. It's much more likely that Scotland is being sacrificed for his cause." You show me a CLEVER politician and I will show you a wooden box.

"In my experience of living overseas for 27 years Scotland is seen by foreigners as part of England. For example, to many Americans (and I'm referring to plenty that I've met), Scotland is part of England just as (say) Delaware is part of the US." I don't know which part of the United Kingdom you are from but I would have expected better than this drivel.

It is accepted that the average American (I talk of those who have never travelled OUTSIDE their beloved country) is generally ignorant regarding the rest of world! that being the case some education is required:-
Great Britain consists of England, Scotland and Wales.
The United Kingdom consists of these three PLUS the 'Six Counties' commonly called Northern Ireland or Ulster.

Scotland is NOT a part of England and never will be, so kindly educate those idiots you meet.

IF that's possible.

93

Schmuel,

England 25/03/2007 09:45:02

54. rose99, Edinburgh / 8:09am 25 Mar 2007
"He can just stay down in England where he belongs, hes shown us he doesn't believe in Scotland and would pick England above Scotland ( football etc)."

Oi! Rose, come on - be fair, he was born your side of the border, we've had enough with Blair, what do you expect us to do with this one?

94

Lucifer,

Ayrshire 25/03/2007 09:47:14

bye bye Gordon ... even the Sassenachs don't want you .... even after you procliamed your love for all things to do with Morris dancing weirdos

Saor Alba

Thig Ar Latha

95

Falsyde,

HIGHLAND SEP 25/03/2007 09:47:16

Having done so much to damage it perhaps his conscience is now bothering him. Perhaps it will bother him some more after he reads our research paper done by Niall Aslen "The Great Deception". Like many before him in Unionist politics Brown has had a disgraceful part to play in the deception and robbery of his own people as the expose mentioned above of GERS 2004/05 will show. The Norwegian's had someone called Quisling during the war and he was so disreputable his name entered the lexicon for people who willingly side with those whose interests they should protect, can Gordon Brown say so? Answers on the back of a stamp, don't waste a postcard.

Anyone who wants a copy, either as a pdf or html file send me an e-mail - info@scottishenterpriseparty.org

Despite the propaganda suggesting Scotland is £11.2 billion in the red, the real figure dear voter is £9.6 billion in the BLACK!!!!!!!! We have all been had for at least nearly three decades

96

Rab McClair,

France 25/03/2007 09:48:25

Save us fae the SNP, Gordie?

Gerralife mate...........If you think that YOU an' yer unionist apologists are gonna save Scotland yer as mad as a Bush supporter re the Iraq war.
OOooppss...............what have I said............
Case PROVEN !!.

SOD OFF BROWN !!!

97

bonhommedubois,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 09:54:59

The bille and hatred and vitriol on the board is horrific. God help our nation if you lot represent it.

And hey, you'll be greeting into your whiskies when your dream of El Presidente Salmond and El Republico of Scotland disappears before your very eyes and decent hard working Scots reject the folly and financial suicide of the SNP.

New poll out next week shows Labour have taken the lead. Ha, hah, hah, hah....

Cost of Independence £11.6 billion. Cost to every family in Scotland £5,000. Increase in taxation 3p. Look on Nats faces when Salmond disnae get in?Priceless.

Oh, and by the way, don't bother respionding. I'm away to pick up my Mum from hospital.

98

Schmuel,

England 25/03/2007 09:56:47

67. Phil C / 8:57am 25 Mar 2007 #60 Voltaire

"Geographically you are British. Most of us live in the British Isles (a few dodgy ex-pat posters aside). You can be Scottish AND as British as you like."
I don't know where you live but I live in ENGLAND. And whilst you're on the subject, any map of the 'British Isles' includes the Republic of Ireland! are you about to tell them THEY are British? It appears that, historically, James VI stated that the term 'British' would become a 'Legal' term.

"Many are sick to death of being lumped in with the English though." If you are one of this clique Thank God I don't know you.

"England won't go away after independence. They'll be our best friends and business\trading partners....and you can still be British. If you want to be English, like Brown-nose, that's a different matter." Brown has never laid claim to being English, British yes - English No! AND there is about as much wrong with being English as there is being Scottish, NOT A LOT.

"Politically,it's time. There is nothing wrong with that at all." Nothing at all - provided you all make a success of it.

99

the wall,

Perth 25/03/2007 09:58:32

I think these comments should be read by every ordinary person who is even contemplating voting for the SNP.
Because like me they will quickly realise (what they always knew!) what a bunch of ****holes these people are.
God help us if they ever got a sniff of power.

100

fr,

Staffordshire 25/03/2007 10:03:33

Great to see this topic can be discussed without hatred of the English. Millions of us are wishing the SNP the best of luck.

101

Steve,

Bo'ness 25/03/2007 10:06:36

101, yet more spite and bitterness, keep it coming. Best wishes to your maw, by the way. Ya Tadger!

102

Human Atom,

the Netherlands 25/03/2007 10:08:21

The British Isles

The British isles make pledge,carved in Celtic stone,
An Anglo Saxon wedge, A Shakespearean ledge,
The hills and the crags, the black granite slabs,
A world memory cone buttressed on Penine bone.

The British mind's afloat a tugging a Gaelic boat,
Lowland, Highland, Scottish grit,
London skyline, Yorkshire pit,
Welsh sung valleys, navies and navvys.

The British heart arises veined in humour that surprises,
In between shifts, light shafts and cliffs,
Centred in spaces, unique human faces,
Tasting applecider & corn, a place to be born.

The British islands sing, human kind remembering,
The British islands ring, human story rendering,
Let Big Ben resound, human nature is aground,
Hazard the die with the light of atoms in your eye.

103

Steve,

Bo'ness 25/03/2007 10:09:12

#105, it's a common misrepresentation that people in Scotland hate the English. And it's mostly peddled by unionists for their own narrow ends. We all have English relatives, support English teams, watch English t.v. "We're a' Jock Thamson's bairns"

If we really hated you, you'd be in no doubt!

104

S.Beaton,

St Cyrus 25/03/2007 10:15:05

and following on from His Majesty Brown's annual visit to the province of Scotland, he will embark on a tour of the planet and tear up the American Declaration of Independence, followed by a visit to Dublin to welcome back Ireland to the UK and finally fly (yes FLY, so much for global warming) to Moscow to celebrate the reunification of the USSR. It's time to realise that the British Empire's time has passed and that the UK is the final piece in the jigsaw that when untied will allow us to proceed as a free and Independent country just like all the forementioned, now independent, countries who are all doing very nicely, thank you

105

CJO,

The Maghreb 25/03/2007 10:17:22

A lot of this crop of SNP commentators on this site appear to be Johnny-Come-Lately Nats embarrassed by their previous convictions and support of the Labour party.

So who are the true Quislings?

106

fr,

Staffordshire 25/03/2007 10:17:45

Steve, does the English team you support have any English players ?

107

LM,

Scotland 25/03/2007 10:19:37

Gordon, when will you realise the people of Scotland do not want you in their lives?
We can do without the "forked tongue" statements, promises and what you will or won't do for Scotland.
There can be no mistaking how we feel North of the Border, I feel deeply for those South of the Border if Gordy Broon ever gets to power.
It will be out with not so well off and in with with the wealthy, oppression and dictatorship will rule the day and there will be great unrest in the British Isles.

108

BROWN IS A DISGRACE,

25/03/2007 10:24:22

Brown, YOUR CONSITUENTS think you are A DISGRACE.

You have sold us all down the river now you tell us you have a DUTY to 'save us'. ARGH!

Let me make myself clear - I am NOT a Nationalist and I DO NOT dislike the English, HOWEVER, your patronising, sycophantish vote catching attempts make we want to vomit.

LETS BE HONEST - YOU DONT EVEN LIKE BLOODY FOOTBALL YOU WERE A RUGBY BOY AT SCHOOL - AND WE KNOW IT!!!! YOU WERE NEVER NEAR RAITH ROVERS UNTIL YOU REALISED THAT YOU COULD CATCH SOME MORE VOTES BY APPEARING TO LIKE THE PUNTERS GAME AND 'HELPING TO SAVE' THE LOCAL TEAM. IT IS DISGUSTING.

YOU are the most insincere politician I have even come across.

GIVE yourself a shake man and stop selling your soul to become PM. There agian, I think your soul has up and gone. Now what would your FATHER say about that? GET A GRIP GORDON!!!

GORDON DON'T YOU REALISE THAT IF YOU WANT TO WIN THE HEARTS AND SOULD OF SCOTLAND AND SLASH THE SNP VOTE YOU WILL HAVE TO STOP PATRONISING US AND BECOME A SCOTSMAN AGAIN INSTEAD OF A GOD-DAMN PSEUDO-ENGLISHMAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

109

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 25/03/2007 10:28:06

Gordon's underpants may be red white and blue on the outside but the inside is filled with Brown.

In my opinion Gorgon is full of Brown and talks Brown.

107, Human Atom, Scaramouche could make a good parody of that poem, perhaps starting off with;

"The British isles make Empire,carved with Celtic blood,"
apologies to Human Atom

110

james 1st,

nz 25/03/2007 10:28:07

#97 keep him , he doesnt want to be scots. brown wants a deeper partnership ,wat exactly is that, there has never been a partnership, everything revolves around england scotland currently does not exist internationally. independence is the way to go. i can forsee a much more friendly relationship with england post independence, provided of course labour are not in control of england, i think the majority of englishmen would agree

111

Aged SNP Voter,

Fife (fae Dundee) 25/03/2007 10:32:45

It's Time. (To change the clocks again.)
Yet another difference beyond politicians reach (i.e. hours of daylight) and not resolved yet. Try...http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/info/summertime_paper2006...
from...
THE ROYAL SOCIETY FOR THE PREVENTION OF ACCIDENTS
SINGLE/DOUBLE SUMMER TIME - POSITION PAPER - MAY 2003
REVISED SEPTEMBER 2004
UPDATED OCTOBER 2005 and October 2006

"Although the power to legislate about Summertime has NOT been devolved to the Scottish Parliament, there are those who say it should be. Some supporters of SDST responding to the RoSPA survey suggested that SCOTLAND should be able to set its own time and could remain in the current time zone if England and Wales aligned with Europe. The arguments for and against such a split are beyond the remit of this paper."

It's time for change if not for me but to try and ensure the safety of the youth of Scotland.

112

Green man,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 10:35:04

Me
I'm for a party that thinks its fine to accept donations from misogynists and homophobes. At least the "real" Scotland will show its face..
No wonder former BNP members prefer to retire to Scotland !
God help us all if the “Alex the demo god” party get in.. Its time, to switch the lights off and leave the country as it sinks into a mire of its own making.

113

Shenachy,

Queensferry 25/03/2007 10:36:18

"Instead, Brown - now almost certain to become Prime Minister later this year - revealed he wanted to create a deeper partnership between England and Scotland than ever before. "

Doesn't this say it all? I read this as an admission that up until now the Union has somehow failed us! Comforting to know that Gordon agrees with the SNP, Greens, SSP and Solidarity parties.

114

Green man,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 10:39:24

Dear Aged SNP voter
Please explain the logic of having a different time system to the rest of Northern Europe, England and Wales....
given that Scotland microscopic economy is wholly reliant upon the EU and England to succeed it would be a good idea if our working times coincided.
i.e. you may change the time in Scotland but workers would still need to be at their desks at the same time as their English counterparts.

115

Buckfastleigh,

25/03/2007 10:40:15

If ever there was a compelling reason for Scotland to do its own thing nothing is more salutary than the pronouncements from this most English of Chancellors.

I am outraged at the contempt he has now shewn in his Budget on the least well of of taxpayers; the increase on the taxes to be levied on the poorest earners in society by abolishing the lower 10% income tax band. Just look at the effect of the other tax changes on his friends in the City of London! England First!

I will definitely not be voting for his party in May!

116

Steve,

Bo'ness 25/03/2007 10:44:49

111, I support East Fife and also Everton, as my wife's folks are from Liverpool!
English players:
Wright, Hibbert, Vaughan, Osman, Stubbs, Lescott, Neville, Beatty, Johnson.

120, change your name to straw man! Eejit!

117

Toast,

borders 25/03/2007 10:48:57

Think of all the English votes you will lose Gordon

118

I am Legion, for we are Many..,

ALBA 25/03/2007 10:50:19

Were the twisted bigots who tried to intimidate Embra yesterday fans of Gorgon Broons GERS non-think tank?
....jist thought I'd ask......

119

,

25/03/2007 10:52:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
120

Green man,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 10:52:12

So Stalin Brown is to take on Trotsky Salmond
Shall we book Alex's ticket to a small S.American republic now ?
Students of history should remember Stalin bettered his political opponents. Watch out Alex.. your days are numbered.
Remember Kosovo ? you morally bankrupt human being

121

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 25/03/2007 10:54:10

took you to 11.01 to appear this morning AM Glasgow. I'm still waiting for answers! I thought that since the warring factions in N.Ireland have almost got their act together you had decided to return to the Emerald Island. When will we all see your next plethora of statistics to rebutt the claim for a successful Scotland? Brown didn't make a very good job of it in his Budget address this week. His figures have been debased already!

122

Denise,

Shetland 25/03/2007 10:54:48

122, Pathetic.
If Scotland's tiny little miniscule backwards economy is so utterly reliant on England's help, after 300 years of glorious union, then WHY dont we do something about it? If you are right then the union is obviously failing us.

I hope most people can see your embarrassingly anti-Scottish posts. All unionists can do is talk Scotland down. Change the record.

123

David MacVicar,

web 25/03/2007 10:54:55

Bring it on Gordy. Many scots dislike you and you are likely to push the undecided away from Labour with this emectioneering. So you can come up here to talk down to us too if you likr. We Joke Mc Con All is jiut going to be bigger joke. Trying to save the union? Trying to save his PM job more like.

We have heard all the scare stories, the lies are gradually making their way to the surface though. Broon, coming up here telling us whats best is Wesminster politics personified. We need to do as we are told, behave and leave Wesminster show us whats best (for them/him). Gordon your days are numbered. You are not wanted any side of the border. What exactly is the 'hard-earned prosperity of the Scottish economy '. Did you miss a memo are you schizophrenic?
On one hand you speciously claim Scotland is a subsidy junkie needing huge handouts on the other we are prosperous. On one hand you give a small a bribe, with the other you take it all back and more.
You 'gift' our country with money which is a) Not yours to give b) less than our proper share c) not up to you what we spend it on.

Gordon its not quite time yet but the clock is ticking, what we are seeing is the death throws of a corrupt government in a corrupt union. You wont be missed.

124

CJO,

The Maghreb 25/03/2007 10:55:53

#80 - presumably you will be on the next plane home once the SNP has got into power?

125

Denise,

Shetland 25/03/2007 10:58:10

130, you again!
Salmond was right about Kosovo. the bombing meant that the UN had to leave, and it then got a lot worse. It didnt save one single life.

126

Ken S.,

England 25/03/2007 10:59:07

#7. IainGlasgow
.. full merger into a British entity is what logically should have happened ages ago, deriving the best aspects of each tradition.

Given that Scots' sense of nationhood (and I guess that would include some Unionists as well) made any such move out of the question, then neighbourly co-operation as independent nations is the best option.


#41. response
"...the english have got Broon in their pocket.."
Aye and he's emptying it.


#45. Harriet
"..Did Brown support Scotland against Georgia?.."
Might have been a difficult choice for him, given the rather attractive St Georges Cross on Georgia's flag. Your overall appraisal is about the most level-headed, unemotive reason I have yet seen for opting for independence. Then you went and spoiled the effect by including the phrase "..a partnership defined via the EU where each is an independent country.."

"Via EU" and "independent country" are increasingly incompatible concepts.

127

Jonboy,

25/03/2007 10:59:33

Thom @ 92 -

Totally agree with your comment on the comments on here... your own included..

Shame the Scotsman/SOS doesn't have the guts to print some of them....

Does worry me a bit though, that Gordy's going to take on the SNP in the run up to the election - he was absolutely brilliant with his help and support for the labour campaign at the Dunfermline West bye-election....That was one of the safest labour seats in Scotland...!!

128

Jock,

Falkirk 25/03/2007 11:03:50

Now in this time of Super Europe, why would we want to come out the union? I let’s all vote for Christmas just like a turkey. Now even Wurzel Gumage could stand as leader of the Labour party and still be in number ten at the next election. No one in there right mind would vote the Conservatory party in when they have a middle of the road Tory party in power at the moment, under the guise of new Labour. The SNP a threat you are having a laugh. Brown should stick to sorting out the country with Blair instead of this entire rule Britannia crap to win votes on an election he knows he is never going to lose.

129

Shenachy,

Queensferry 25/03/2007 11:04:03

#122 "given that Scotland microscopic economy is wholly reliant upon the EU and England to succeed it would be a good idea if our working times coincided.
i.e. you may change the time in Scotland but workers would still need to be at their desks at the same time as their English counterparts."

Are you trying to tell us that workers in England have to stay at their desks all through the night in order to do business with Australian companies? You may have to think about this question for a minute or two..................!

130

Jock,

Falkirk 25/03/2007 11:10:35

Now in this time of Super Europe, why would we want to come out the union? I let’s all vote for Christmas just like a turkey. Now even Wurzel Gumage could stand as leader of the Labour party and still be in number ten at the next election. No one in there right mind would vote the Conservatory party in when they have a middle of the road Tory party in power at the moment, under the guise of new Labour. The SNP a threat you are having a laugh. Brown should stick to sorting out the country with Blair instead of this entire rule Britannia crap to win votes on an election he knows he is never going to lose.

131

CJO,

The Maghreb 25/03/2007 11:11:41

#123 - I am well aware of who the real Quisling was, my query was aimed at the New Nats, the former lefty Labour voters that have quickly jumped ship rather than face up to the crimes they have inflicted on Scotland over the years.

Perhaps they should take a leaf out of their Dear Leader's book and apologise ?

132

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 25/03/2007 11:12:01

#130 Green Man If you think Kosova and that troubled land mass is now a peaceful enclave, think again. It is just as likely to blow up any time and the UN will be as ineffective as it was at the beginning. It could again be a another miniature Iraq and I believe Salmond was correct with his assessment then. Even Churchill wouldn't get involved in the Balkans and he had the whole Western Allies at his disposal. If you consider Salmond to be a "morally bankrupt human being" where on your Richter Scale would you place Blair Bush, Brown, Prescott, Des Browne, Lord Robertson, Lord George Foulkes, Eric Joyce to name but a few .......?

133

Denise,

Shetland 25/03/2007 11:20:57

130,Green Man
If the UK cared so much about Kosovo, why didnt we send in troops? Its a simple question.

A multi-national deployment might have actually made a difference. Especially as there were British troops stationed just over the border.

134

JD,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 11:21:17

When you decide to leave BT or British Gas to take your custom elsewhere.. they contact you making all sorts of offers to persuade you to stay..

Funny how important you become when you decide to leave...........

Too little........ Too late..... I think

135

CJO,

The Maghreb 25/03/2007 11:21:45

#143 - You named only the tip of the Labour iceberg - if you add all the corrupt Labour politicians at all levels from shop stewards up through the local council ranks to the highest levels in Government there would not be sufficient memory to store the data.
My worry is that the others are no better.

136

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 11:22:23

Angus Lindsay: Your very repative today! Do you think no ones listening?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm no feeling to great today, but I just want to say Brown can't be trusted, he wants to make us all "North" Brittish (Yuck) and then wants us to celabrate it (Yuck) and wave a flag which descriments agains friends and family members (Yuck).

I can't help but wonder what Browns really tryng to save the Union or something else? Possible his Job, I belive that the MP's Get paid more than MSP's.
He's over paid and he proble knows it. If only I could get a job which pays at least 1/2 of what he gets.

What is there to save the people from expet other than the union it's self.

I notice his refuesing to give the Scottish parlement more powers! He must think the polls tell lies and that 70% of Scots don't want Holyrood to have more powers. Gorden Brown must be indenail.

137

Morag MacDonald,

Glaasgeee 25/03/2007 11:23:22

Will Gordon Brown be PM?

The more people see him picking his nose and eating it, the higher the SNP vote. Disgusting behaviour!

I would send him to his room and say he can't run the country until he has learned how to behave in public.

138

fassituk,

Neath, South Wales 25/03/2007 11:25:05

The proud Scottish nation and its people have a wonderful opportunity to relief itself from these ignorant, intrusive, self-motivated and corruptive bunch of Labour spinners and its English parliament once and for all. I hope you make the right decision for Scotland and vote for independence. Wales will follow your lead so perhaps, please also think of a fellow Celtic nation and how long we have also suffered at their hands. Good luck to you

139

rothay,

England 25/03/2007 11:25:22

Who cares what Brown says anywhere in these islands. Like Blair he is a busted flush. Labour is disintegrating into petty squabbling as usual.

You should be more worried about what your SNP Boss is planning, waiting for years before a referendum. He says he needs to prove that the SNP can govern effectively. I don't believe him. I think the SNP believe they can't carry Scotland.

Maybe we English will get a referendum first - once we have got rid of the Scottish run Labour party. We also want independence not just from Scotland but Northern Ireland as well.

Why doesn't Salmond test the SNP's political strengths over there. After all judging by the surnames it's appears to be mainly a Scottish enclave.

140

Callum,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 11:27:24

It is up to the Scottish people if the SNP win and I hope Scotland will move forward. GB is only thinking about England. Scotland should be independence from England.
Scotland should have a really parliament with really powers for its Parliament.

141

shivago8,

LIVINGSTON 25/03/2007 11:29:35

NO WAY,GORDON, ARE YOU GOING TO SAVE THE UNION.WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE.WE HAVE LISTENED TO YOUR TAX INCREASES RANTS TOO LONG.WE ARE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING NEW NOT OLD.THE REASON WHY WE WANT INDEPENDENCE IS BECAUSE OF YOU AND WHAT YOU REPRESENT.STAY DOWN IN ENGLAND WITH YOUR FRIENDS, YOU DONT HAVE MANY IN AULD PROUD SCOTIA.

142

Caesar,

Northumberland 25/03/2007 11:30:15

Brown is only interested in saving his skin and that of the 40 or so MP's who vote as directed by him in Westminster. The only British thing Brown has ever done is to destroy everybody's pensions, apert from his own of course.

The loss of oil revenue in exchange for £30 Billion largesse he uses as a bribe for those votes seems a good deal to me.

Bring on the Nats.

143

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 11:32:06

#104. AM: OH AM you disapoint me, I thought they'd be a new Eassy, to intertant us borried folk.

You wanted the attention know you've got to perform,or you'll lose it!!!!!!!

It's the Harsh reality and heres some friendly adivce (you can't keep showing the same thing all the time day after day, it bores the public)

144

CJO,

The Maghreb 25/03/2007 11:33:33

#147 - North sea isn't exactly stagnating, believe we have extracted 40 billions barrles with 36 billion boe to recover. However, to make a profit the lift costs have to be low. Rates in Aberdeen are higher than in London for certain disciplines and as high as any "safe" country in the World. That can't be blamed on Gordon Brown, only his myopic view of the UKCS O&G industry as an easy target because the companies involved make good profits around the World. 50% corporation tax because you make money out of hydrocarbons? Its just daft but it panders to the envious masses and is hoped to be a vote winner - as it was when he brought in his windfall tax and then hiked the corporation tax twice on oil companies.

Aberdeen is a centre of technical excellence for Worldwide O&G technology. The challenge for Scotland as it goes ahead is to educate more engineers and management professionals to fill the holes left by the continual stream of good, experienced personnel going abroad for money taxed at lower rates.

145

Richard Lionheart,

cyberspace 25/03/2007 11:36:25

Scottish Labour proudly presents, at great expense, "Gordo the Conjurer"

146

Rob - Honest Toun,

25/03/2007 11:37:48

He widnae hae ony goals tae admire yesterday, wid he?

147

Neil,

9% Growth Party 25/03/2007 11:40:15

"GORDON Brown last night revealed he was placing himself at the heart of Labour's Holyrood election campaign"

So Jack will still be gracing us with his absence.

148

morris,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 11:41:42

101
A new poll out NEXT WEEK shows Labour have taken the lead? I wouldnt be in the least bit surprised. I wouldnt be daft enough to beleive it either. We expect this just after Chairman Gordon has given us the benefit of his wisdom.
His political future is hanging by a thread,and he will have to be aneven better liar than Blair is to survive


Ive witnesed what Labour supporters think and thats a contradiction in terms!

149

morris,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 11:54:33

151
The answer to your ludicrous question is Northern Ireland is not part of Scotland,so they cannot vote in a Scottish referendum on independence,unless resident and on the register here (in Scotland).
I wonder however, just how many of them are registered here in Glasgow and also in Northern Ireland? Possibly theres more than a few.
The two governments will negotiate the terms of separating and that will take time,since neither wants to lose out,but international law will apply,and I cannot see any problems which will not be sorted eventually.

We agree however that the four nations should determine their own destiny.
Good Luck to you all.

150

Rembo,

Fife 25/03/2007 11:57:18

Let's not get tied up in silly statements about Cowdenbeath FC or other trivia. The fact is that we don't need England to tell us what we can do or how much they will hand out to us. They stole our oil and wasted it on social payment handouts, instead of investing it wisely. Norway (much the same population as Scotland) did invest it and have and will have the benefits for many years to come.
Scotland doesn't need an "independent" Trident system to deter what or whom?
Stop the noise and save your powder until after the election. Then be heard trumpeting a free and independent Scotland, whic WILL be within the EU and will not denigrate or lampoon the French and others. Thank goodness we are smaller and do not have to carry the weary baggage of Empire lost and dreams of former glory.
English people can rest easy too (for Scots are amongst the most welcoming of people) and they will be warmly greeted as friends, neighbours and tourists, just as are others from Eire, Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, NewZealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and so on. Funny though, most of these countries demanded their independence from the same lot ahead of us. Let's not fail ourselves this time.

151

skeptic griggsy,

augusta,ga 25/03/2007 11:58:40

I agree with Inter-nationalist .May Labour win ! Scotland and Labour and the Union together can prosper even more . I a an inter-patriot - for all countries and Scotland is a country inside a country in which it can play a major role and in the larger world.

152

Jock,

Falkirk 25/03/2007 11:59:54

#145
I they are booming that much that you need to take about £150 out with you for a couple of beers and a bite to eat in Norway and Iceland, we all don’t live in the fantasy world of the Times where they average wage is £500 a week.
But know doubt the sectarian bigots who are marching today in Edinburgh will only strengthen the independence lobby and get out the union brigade stance, not only within religious groups but Scot’s who are sick of the country’s backward attitude to religious tolerance within our society today.

153

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 12:10:13

Hey I don't know if you'se have heard the new to day but Jack Straw has written a letter backing Brown to be the next PM. And acording to the radio new I was listening to it seemed that most Labour MP's & Mebers of their party would be perseades by them.

So Browns FOOLING the ENGLISH

WE MUST not let us SCOTS get FOOLED BY Browns WORDS of Saving us form the enablitable.

154

Tax haven,

Jersey 25/03/2007 12:12:24

Firstly can I just comment on #39 post when he/she described AM and other pro SNP suporters as a "gang of four" was this meant to be complimentary or a backhanded insult about their sometimes agressive tactics to compare them to one of China's most evil regimes? Also quite appropriate given some of the threads have been about communist/trotsky Salmond?

The one question I have been trying to get an answer to over the last week is in regard to Scotland's economic policy for indendence and frankly all the answers I've received have been as shallow as a pygmy's paddling pool. My problem with Scottish independence is this:

The SNP itself admit that in an independent Scotland they would keep the pound or if the time was right join the Euro. However this would delegate control of interest rates and all monetary policy to England, the very people the SNP are trying to escape. If you look at basic economic theory from Scottish economists such as Adam Smith then you see that interest rates control a country's inflation, empoyment rates, exchange rates and therefore its exports/imports.

Furthermore an economy is a fragile thing so the SNP would therfore have to control tax and spending in order to keep their fiscal policy in line with the economic policy that is set by London as if the SNP were to spend wildly and as they claim they will in this Scottish utopia then this wil create inflationary pressure which the Bank of England can not allow to happen.

Another point is that the Scots all talk about taking back what is rightfully theirs however what if England was to take back things that they could try and claim belonged to them? For example the military, whilst I'm sure I would not be happy to have trident on my doorstep you cannot deny that having naval, RAF and army bases across Scotland creates jobs not just within the armed forces but also injects money into the civilian economy (how many civilian joiners, electricians etc get wo

155

Tax haven,

Jersey 25/03/2007 12:14:04

Oh yeah one more thing if a Scottish parliament really wants to be taken seriously make sure you get rid of Rosie Kane on May 3rd as her antics along with those of some of her associates really drag the reputation of the pariament down.

156

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 12:18:31

#158. Neil: Jacks gonney hide not because he pitularly wants to but because Westminster will/ have told him to do so.

We'll only see Jack when Brown and Co want us to see him.

Brown wants the limelight he's developing a bit of an ego for him self, he needs a reality check Scots don't like his ego, where as NcConnell makes us laugh, deep down in side we no his the best Scot out of all the unionist in Scotland. And if he's beening shoved to the side like an unwatended toy then Scots should note that this is what is happening and Westminster have the power over Holyrood (far too much power)

157

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 12:23:39

#167. Tax haven: Does the same go for the Tories, As the only Scots MP they've got called the their MSPs idiots (that might not be the exact word but it was similar to it)

I 'd prefer the SSP to the Tories any day, allow I don't quite get what Mr Fox is on about in the Sunday Hearld today.

158

John F.,

Brazil 25/03/2007 12:28:19

This is the best news I have heard for ages. Brown´s arrogance, hypocrisy and vanity should ensure that Labour lose and the SNP win. As for Brown becoming UK PM after Blair, don´t bank on it. Have a read at the forums of English papers like the Daily and Sunday Telegraph or the Times and you will see that he is detested. Most of these posters portray him as a grasping Scot, showing that his attempts to portray himself as a loyal North Briton in Her Majesty´s Service have failed.

159

langtonian,

scotus 25/03/2007 12:28:57

It is always regretable to see the sad ,sad Scottish faliling of mumping which raises its ugly head in a fair proportion in the replys to be seen within many of the comments given above.
Gordon Brown in this most recent statement demostrates that he is a modern statesman of quality and stature.
The scrappings of the bottom of the barrell of the minoity of S.N.P. bigots, one accepts, they are the hard core, and not truly representative of the party as a whole and
should be discouraged from ranting/raving
If ALEC Salmond wishes to have a smidgeon of responsability over this rump in his party he should be suggesting to his supporters they have to basiclly concentrate on pushing on with his seven day old 100 day manifesto.
Whatever it takes- but DICOURAGE THE MUMPERS!

160

NBJT,

25/03/2007 12:29:19

More great news for the SNP!

Things just keep getting better and better.

Brown coming on board for the Scottish Labour, or is he now a Unioinist/Tory, will gain many more votes for the SNP.

A few more pictures of him picking his nose and wearing an England shirt should also do the trick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

161

Tax haven,

Jersey 25/03/2007 12:29:40

Another example of Scottish Economic prosperity that is held up is that of RBS but to my knowledge RBS is a UK company which will be registered at company's house in London. In an independent Scotland would UK companies with Scottish connections be forced to re register as Scotish companies. What if they they are multinational then could they not just remain an English registered company which would be taxable in England and the Scottish branch the only taxable entity in Scotland. As all a company is deemed resident where it is managed and controlled so all it would take are for the directors of the company (for example of RBS) to move to ondaon and the office at Gogurburn is no longer the head office but just a branch?

162

Tax haven,

Jersey 25/03/2007 12:32:16

Eve #169

True most politicians behave like muppets and say stupid things but at least a majority of them don't carry on like infants actually within the parliamentary chambers.

163

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 12:33:05

Given this man's attitude, lack of integrity and lust for power I think we should be rather concerned about what kind of state of emergency could allow the indefinite suspension of the electoral process. Provisions for it exist in the 2004 Civil Contingencies Act.

If you think I'm being far fetched just bear in mind that a recent issue over the human rights of convicted criminals could reportedly cause the Holyrood election to be stopped.

164

Denise,

Shetland 25/03/2007 12:34:00

The SNP said they'd only "keep the pound" until an alternative currency was set up.
Seems pretty sensible to me, even if they just pegged it to sterling for a few months. Big deal.

What's the alternative?
Maybe you think we should all throw away our banknotes on independence day?

165

,

25/03/2007 12:38:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
166

Los Angeles,

Los Angeles 25/03/2007 12:44:01

What an embarrassment.

You can hear Brown's cry, "You may take ma cattle, ye may take ma castle, bu' ye'll no take ma fiefdom!"

LA

167

Tax haven,

Jersey 25/03/2007 12:45:18

#176 Denise

I've schecked the SNP websie and it does not talk of an alternative currency it says it will retain the pound or join the Euro? And even if they had an independent currency that was pegged then you have to control your fiscal policy very carefully and mantain the economic and fiscal conditions of the country to which your currency is pegged. Just look what happened in 1992 when the GB crashed out the ERM and George Soros and others made billions of pounds at the tax payers expense because the governement were trying to mantain a currency peg to other European currencies..

168

,

25/03/2007 12:48:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
169

Rabhairt,

Cannons Creek Australia 25/03/2007 12:50:39

BROWN WILL SAVE THE UNION FOR WHAT.......
NOW IS THE HOUR, SAIOR ALBA

170

Painted faces,

Fife 25/03/2007 12:57:49

#160 "So what would happen if the RAF squadrons at Leuchars and Lossiemouth were moved England?"
A: They'd be in England

We may loose a few jobs/contracts in the defence sector, but in time these will be replaced by other forms of employment in a newly invigorated and more prosperous Scotland, after Independence. Nobodyelse expects a job for life..why should RAF personnel?

Dont forget 'Tax Haven' the SNP have a Long term strategy as well a Short term one; there may be no need for these bases in the future.

171

Saltire,

China 25/03/2007 13:00:00

Thank you all for an entertaining day. It has been better than watching TV.
I think though that everybody needs to think very seriously about the future in an independent Scotland.
Success will not come easily, independence will not cure all the ailments our country currently suffers from and yes, it will probably cost more to sustain much of the current infrastructure.
But it will be OUR country, OUR decisions and, of course, OUR own fault if we don't make it work.
Do the Scots have the heart for the fight? We've never lacked it in the past, let's not fail now.

172

Gill,

West Lothian 25/03/2007 13:06:26

Bring it on Gordie...we all know what happened when you jetted in to save the seat next door to yours in the last Westminster by election!

So come ahead. We have nothing to fear but eejits like you.

(Pity aboot yer team yesterday, by the way!)

173

Russell,

25/03/2007 13:10:10

thats it gordon try the unions now to save your a**

174

murren87,

Isle of Arran 25/03/2007 13:10:29

The hard core unionists lie that we'll be worse off under Independence. The fearties fret that we can'nae dae it alone...the SNP might no' be any better...so why chynge?
If you haven't read this..READ IT...copy it and send /give to everyone you know.

http://www.scottishpolitics.org/scotching/greatdeception....

IT'S TIME!

175

Russell,

25/03/2007 13:10:56

What a dumplin

176

Jolly,

Midlothian 25/03/2007 13:14:02

No 31

I agree with you! There are some scary Scottish fanatics out there who cannot put forward any argument without resorting to insults and aggression!

177

nolimits,

Canada 25/03/2007 13:15:04

Excuse my ignorance, but what would happen to the lands that had been stolen then granted to individuals by various forms of British gov't over the years. Seems to me that CLASS is very much an issue that is not talked about very much, but, is very much alive, especially in rural Scotland.You can bet that that the Lords, Viscounts and the rest of that ilk, will be whipping up the hounds against independence. And, as land owners/landlords, they will have significant sway over the rural vote. It will be interesting to see the polling results, station by station come May 4.

178

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 13:19:05

#159

There was a poll out just before christmas that gave labour a 4 or 5 point lead. It appears now to have been just a blip on the radar as all other polls have shown a marked downward trend for labour. They have done for the past 3 years or so years even since before the SNP edged ahead.

Labour have been overtly coy (well not so much coy as shrouded in secrecy) over the results of a great deal of their own opinion polling. Consider too that the result of the last general election was predicted fairly accurately by the opinion polls and all the by-election evidence. That coupled with the fact Labour have nothing to say about their own policies and only ever talk about the SNP may allude to their prospects for re-election being even bleaker than we might think.

Even the Lib Dems have been measured in ther criticism of the SNP. I think Nicol Stephen may suspect that Labour could end up with not enough seats for them too keep the current administration propped up and will have no problem agreeing to a referendum on independence once Alex dangles the keys to the ministerial limo in front of his face.

Jack says £1.8 billion (which will be raised in extra tax from Scotland through the scrapping of the 10p rate) all going on education.

- How many dirty hospitals is that going to clean?
- How many closure-faced hospital wards is that going to keep open?
- How many pensioners will that lift out of fuel poverty?
- How many more police officers will that put on the beat?

179

Jolly,

Midlothian 25/03/2007 13:19:25

179 Colin! I wonder how many other massive misconceptions are floating around in these contributions, whipped up by this frenzy of anti- English feeling! I suspect the same zealous contributors are following the fashioanable politics 'du jour' and were probably rabid labour voters in the last wave of fashionable politics too! I expect they will be voting 'green' or something else in vogue in the future, after this SNP frenzy!!! Plus ca change....

180

Torchwood,

Aberdeen 25/03/2007 13:20:57

I still have not had an answer to my queries from anyone who wants to vote SNP without thinking....

Are you sure you want to be ruled by Brussels rather than Westminster?

Are you sure that you want to go into the Euro?

Are you sure you want one of your biggest donators Sean Connery advertising Japanese Suntory whisky not the real superior and best home grown product?

Do you know which country Salmond has negotiated to represent Scotland abroad as you do not have any of your own embassies planned?

Are you sure that you want to be ruled by the homophobic and a few other things beside Brian Soutar?

Do ask any SNP policy maker. I would be interested to hear their answers.

The truth is it won't be a free Scotland it will be ruled by Europe

181

,

25/03/2007 13:26:04
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182

Gary Miller,

South Africa 25/03/2007 13:29:35

So "Gordo Broon" - wants to create a deeper partnership between England and Scotland than ever before ? How much deeper can it get after 300 years ? Partnership is it ? There's a population of 5 odd million in Scotland and 10 times that in England ? Any deeper a partnership and we'll be being called North Britain again ! My advice to Brown and his pathetic Labour unionist buddies is to hurry away back down to the Medway - and stay there. For ever. Scotland does not need your lot .......oh, and ever - increasingly.......neither do your Medway neighbours.

183

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 13:31:01

# 164

But do you know what average salaries are in Norway?

Or other factors like standards of living, overall health of the population, life expectancy, standard of public services, overall tax burden (factoring in income tax, business taxtes, national insurance, vat, fuel duty, etc).

Of course there may be supply and demand factors too. If the Norwegians were to consume as copious quantities of alcohol as people here do, production and supply would be greater and therefore unit costs less. Consider also they probably tend to drink bottled premium beer (for which you can easily pay £3.50 a bottle for in an Edinburgh pub) as opposed to mass produced "low grade" lager.

184

Gizzabreak,

25/03/2007 13:31:45

I misread the headline. I thought it read I WILL SHAVE THE UNION!!

Yeah, with a cut-throat razor and bleeding us dry!

185

Tax haven,

Jersey 25/03/2007 13:33:45

Firstly #179 Colin R

I apologise for my oversight and concede that RBS is registered in companies house Edinburgh. However you are very wrong about the currency peg and a country can simply peg itself to another's such as with China up until about 2 years ago it pegged it's currency to the dollar so it could continue it's cheap exports to the US although now the currency is floated against a basket of free floating currencies. So it looks like the idiots that voted for Hitler in 1933 would have just been you and me buddy!

Secondly #181 painted face I'm not talking about the loss of a few defence contracts but the impact on local economies that are dependent on the bases being there.

p.s. #179 Colin R why do you have to be so insulting you made a couple of interesting points but then had to finish it off with some rather stupid remarks?

186

Painted faces,

Fife 25/03/2007 13:35:28

#190 That's pathetic. I've never seen any anti English posts. How dare you hunker down on the anti-English position, on this site. I bet its you thats the real racist.

187

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 13:40:16

#173

The main Company's House (holding the Registrar of Companies for England and Wales) is actually in Cardiff so you've kind of shot yourself in the foot there.

However if the jist of your argument is correct then the City of London should be very concerned about the prospect of Welsh Independence.

188

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25/03/2007 13:44:08
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189

murren87,

Isle of Arran 25/03/2007 13:45:45

Just a few comments posted in The Telegraph...and not even the nastiest ones.

>I was born, bred and brought up in London. I have only ever lived in England. I make clear to anyone who will listen that there is no logical reason for England to be in a union with Scotland and that we should wave the ungrateful, sclerotic, subsidy-junkie nation goodbye.<

Stephen Pollard, Chairman of the European Institute for the Study of Modern Anti-Semitism.

------------------------------------------------------------

>The English will have their say, get over it, and get over the fact that Scotland doesn't really figure in our minds much. As far as we are concerned you already are a seperate country, the Union died in most English hearts when Scotland set up a seperate Government. <

Posted by Ben on March 22, 2007 9:25 AM
------------------------------------------------------------

>This disgracefull collection of incompetant neo communists have since they came to power done every thing they can to destroy the fabric of our country. They passed the laws relating to the devolvement of power in Scotland and wales, they are the ones who have created these divisions in the UK and therefor they should be the ones who hand back to the English their own Parliment. The great majority of the population can trace there inheritance back over the centuries to the original settlers in this country, because of the laws passed by the present government we now face the prospect of our country becoming a ragtag nation led by left wing loonatics. The last person I would want as the next Prime Minister is Mr Brown or for that matter any Scottish or Welsh MP. England for the English please.<

Posted by Chris Greening on March 22, 2007 9:47 AM
------------------------------------------------------------

190

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 13:46:29

Claims are made that independence would cost defence jobs. I think they're kind of missing the point here.

Fundamentally, the function of any military operation is to kill people, lots of them.

If we were to achieve world peace and create a world of tolerance where no armies and no weapons are required how many "defence" jobs would that cost?

So by the rationale of not losing defence jobs, world peace is something we should actually seek to avoid at all costs!

191

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 13:50:18

#191

You mean as opposed to Brussels AND Westminster?

192

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25/03/2007 13:50:26
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193

Painted faces,

Fife 25/03/2007 13:53:40

#200 Now AM lets not miscontrue Anti-Britishness with the campaign for the people living in Scotland having self-determination: a better brighter future under Independence.

194

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 13:54:32

#200. AM: WHAT are Your a fasion desinger now, designed any bonnie gear yet, with that slogan, You'd mak a fortion (£)

Can just imagen stores like FCUK, BHS, Top shop, MaKays, Burtons ect... sineing up to sell them.

195

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 14:02:52

AM Has the price of fame has found a new casialtie?

Cause you sound like your about have some sort of a brakedown or something.

Don't worrie you'll be fine after your wee trip to the Priary just like all Z list Celbrates

196

Painted faces,

Fife 25/03/2007 14:21:31

The "Treason" comment was ridiculous I would agree. AM if you were to take a trip to some of the more prosperous English counties, then you will find out about the nasty side of nationalism, including-especially within the 'upper classes' the view that Scotland is some sort of conquered and slavish nation; beginning to realise that a lot of poiliticians think that also.

197

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25/03/2007 14:24:29
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198

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 14:33:53

AM: asterisks, whats that supose to mean?

As far as I'm conserd you get two types of unionist(maybe more!) :

Type 1: Is in it for them selfs, Lies, is desetful, will do any thing to keep them self where they think they can have more Power and money. (when Scotland become independent they can be what they want to be as long as the don't drag us back in to the union)

Type 2: Thouse who belive the lies and have been mislead. They may or may not live below the poverty line. Or may or not have been let down by the education board. Or foolishly belive thart a goverment would never lie to them.

there is also more than one type of everything else that existes because nothing is completly identical.

P.S. Why should we condem someone whose playing game, If you were for really then that would be difrent.

P.S.P.S. Its because we've read your eassy we know your no for real.

199

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 14:35:18

#203. murren87: Thats terible, what was the story they were commenting on?

200

Itchy,

25/03/2007 14:37:35

With Brown claiming to save the union, independence is assured in the next few years, if his record in office as chancellor is anything to go by.

201

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25/03/2007 14:40:01
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202

morris,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 14:42:00

215
Far from critcising what you say,I am impressed by the clarity of your explanation!
It seeks only to prove a point and I would say it does precisely that.

203

Royster,

25/03/2007 14:46:42

Eve, Seems like you have been completely brainwashed. Please remove your SNP SIM card if only for a couple of minutes.

204

Richardinho,

hawick 25/03/2007 14:50:25

It always amazes me when unionists try and suggest we should be 'scared' of independence.

When britain goes to war, Scots are expected to fight and die for the cause of the UK.

I don't see why they should be scared of anything in the cause of Scotland.

205

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 14:51:41

#219. AM,: Not quite my thought.

My belifes are more in line with empowering people.
Not in the eqivelent of telling them its ok to lie on the road when theirs a car coming because they belive that the cars a taxi and will stop for them and give them a lift to wear they want to go.

You win them over/ give insertives, genarate some positive feelings. Hold group consling for them if their OAP's and no leaving there homes you arannge a day outing where they mix with people so there no alone and not afarid nothing puts people more at ease than positivity and a friend to talk too.

206

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 14:58:34

#223. Royster : Who's brain washed?

Nationalist who want whats best for there country, Scotland

or thoes

Who will defend the union untill ****.

Change is a good thing it means we're no taken for granted and the will of the people is lost.

P.S. I'm no a member of the SNP

But I belive in independence for my country.

207

Enigmascot,

Houston 25/03/2007 15:02:46

Socialists have a plethora of ideas but a poverty of results. Result: poverty in the NHS, poverty in the education system and under-achievement in everything else.

I went to Gordon Brown's High School just ba few years ahead, in his elder brother's classes. Then, in the 1960s, education in Scotland was superb. Now it's a shambles. All he can talk about is more "investment" i.e. more taxes, more squandering of resources.

Maybe SNP won't succeed either, but at least give them a chance to better the Labour mafia in power at Holyrood.

Let's cut taxes, cut spending, cut the civil service, make health and education administrators more accountable. Less government, more privatisation, increased prosperity for all.

Free the people from third-rate politicians like McConnell! A nanny-state run by ninnies just has to be a 20th century relic.

208

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 15:05:50

Ah, AM, Your so comical.

Can you please let me know when your doing you stand up gigs in the Barrowlands cause I don't want to be disapointed if they've all sold out, before I have time to buy one.

I'm looking forward to it!!!!!!

209

Freeman Stand,

25/03/2007 15:11:26

I've no problem with G. Brown picking his nose. It's when he's picking my pocket, and at the same time trying to tell me it's a tax cut, I don't like.

210

wattie>x 1,

25/03/2007 15:18:49

Our basic freedoms are continually under threat in Blair and Brown's New Labour Party UK. Each and every day we witness them being whittled away by a worried establishment that wish to retain their hold with a vice like grip on the control they have taken for ganted for centuries within their own sacred domain. In the past, and present, they have
been avidly supported by a corrupt, cavalier press and TV barons whose main interests coincide with each other. Their principal aim has been to create confusion, distortion and too manipulate important political and economic events. National Socialism, which emerged post 1918 on the ending of World War One, presented them with the opportunity denied to them after four years off the bloodiest conflict ever, to have descended on the human race. It came as no surprise to learn during this brutal conflict; it was mainly innocent working class youngsters - who were to pay the price - from all over Europe who paid the ultimate sacrifice as many millions were needlessly slaughtered in the mad inhuman process. On the demise of caring politics with the advent off Thatcherism during her cruel and dishonourable term of office that ended with an abrupt halt during 1997, another sham bogus political outfit in the form of Blair and Brown's New Labour Party emerged. They had been lying in wait and only too willing to carry out the usual establishment's wishes to retain her evil doctrine.
This discredited sleazy outfit, supported by and heavily financed from its big business and wealthy friends, was not long in proving they had much in common with the National Socialism, that emerged in Germany after World War One. England, I am certain, will never in my lifetim have to suffer the indignity of having another Blair and Brown New Labour Party government. It has taken time some for them to rumble too both of these lying, deceitful impostors and most of my English friends and close relations can't wait to see the back of them a

211

argonaut,

musselburgh 25/03/2007 15:26:30

when will the media including the hootsman get a grip..wake the hell up....the union is finished..id so love to be in the political editors offices come the morning after the election - see the look on their faces!!
The demise of the this union is so inevitable, so all concerned get your heads round the fact...its coming..its time.......................bring it on mr brown.....

212

,

25/03/2007 15:31:36
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25/03/2007 15:34:02
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CJO,

25/03/2007 15:37:41

#214 - that statement is a blatant lie. When I lived in england, Surrey and West Sussex, 2 of the most expensive I am sure you'd agree, all I received was respect and a very warm welcome. Something my English wife hasn't always received in bonny Scotland and especially Aberdeenshire.

215

siusaidh,

25/03/2007 15:39:10

I think *1 summend it up....great to see Media 1 having a day off.
Time our nation would get the chance to rule themseves.
Only reason that Labour is running scared an d getting the 'big guns' to help, is that we've got something to give, even so those south of the scottish border would never admit it.

216

Jimmy Erasmus Student,

In your head 25/03/2007 15:40:00

BOOOOO! To Brown's sh*t* plans! Say yes to an independent Scotland!

217

Los Angeles,

Los Angeles 25/03/2007 15:46:43

You have to chuckle at the way RADIO A.M. logs on ever thread to be provocative and stir up dispute only to throw up his hands in horror when folk tell him to take a hike.

Brown is an real embarrassment.

"Ye may take my oil, ye may take ma hoose, bu' ye'll never take ma fiefdom!"

LA

218

CJO,

25/03/2007 15:47:49

#229 - You forgot to add tax breaks for those using private health and education thereby reducing the burden on the already over stretched central purse.

219

Media 1,

25/03/2007 15:51:22

Its not just Brown's duty to save the union, it is all of our duties. As proud Scots whose ancestors fought for Britain and protected her from foreign invasion we should all be doing our bit to ensure that the union remains. The union serves Scotland well and those who disagree are basing their feelings on anti English sentiment or short sighted political understanding.

Its time!

To stand up against rogue politicians like Alex Salmond and send him packing. I am sure Salmond is a decent man, I am certain that he believes he has Scotland's best interest at heart, but sadly I do not share his vision. I see his plans as dangerous, short sighted and entirely void of reason. AND I strongly believe that come May the majority of Scots will vote accordingly, thus preventing the SNP from gaining power.

ITS TIME! to support the union

220

doris d,

25/03/2007 15:59:16

#31 I would suggest that pollsters do not hate G Brown Esq: just his modus operandi.

He has not yet managed to get Bliar's hands off the tiller yet he is arrogant enough to believe that he will become PM AND direct New Tory/Labour's return to power in Scotland in his spare time.

Had he been a great leader he would have got rid of Bliar long ere now, and be stamping his authority on the Govt. The fact is that up until now he's cooried in behind Bliar, wheeling and dealing behind his back. Even Mandelson on telly this am said it was time for Brown to come out from the shadows and actually declare what he does stand for.

221

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25/03/2007 15:59:49
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222

David MacVicar,

web 25/03/2007 16:01:22

Unionist thought process:#1

Q. What are you going to do without: Army, navy, Embassies...insert any Brtish asset / system you care to imagine?

So all this belongs to England does it? What a bunch narrow minded, ignorant, blinkered idiots you are. These are UK assets bought and paid for by UK tax payers and owned by the british people. Scotland has its own share of all UK assets, just as Wales etc does.

The problem is that you think it belongs to England.
Its sad when unionists themselves confuse the UK with England. Just shows that some unionists thinks everything including Scotland belongs to them and how dare we try to even consider independence. I am sorry to say but you are in for a rude awakening.
I also read that approx 70% of the SAS are Scots (I admint I have no government figures to support this though). In any case I cant see them all remaining with the British army somehow. In addion Millions of pounds worth of Crown estate money from Scotland currently goes straight to Westminster. More theft.

There are many English and other nationalities in Scotland who also want independence and want what is best for their families who have made their home here. Noone has a good idea of the numbers though. One thing is certain, most who want independence are sick of the Establishement. People who think we are a nation of no hopers who without oil will have no economy or assets truly are mistaken.
Goodbye union the clock is ticking.

223

Painted faces,

Fife 25/03/2007 16:02:59

#214 Gordon Brown is to perceived as "too Scottish" in England to be a British prime minister, hence probably his bungling attempts to appear less so ie gazza goal "I'll save the Union" etc etc.

224

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 16:03:19

#241

Media1, I'm going to Ireland to submit a proposal for a referendum on rejoining the United Kingdom. Will you sign my petition? Perhaps you could do New Zealand for me and AM can go to Australia.

225

IWright,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 16:05:55

"New poll out next week shows Labour have taken the lead. Ha, hah, hah, hah...."

How do you know?

226

livilion,

livingston 25/03/2007 16:06:46

241. Village Idiot
I am sure you too are a 'decent man' and that you have Scotland's best interests at heart, but sadly the reason you do not share our vision is because it is your bum that is out of the window, and talking keech!

227

argonaut,

musselburgh 25/03/2007 16:07:54

media1..you really need to come out of your everlasting coma, look at what is happening in this country of Scotland, the people have had enough of the union. devolution gave us a taster and now they want the full works, independence for England and Scotland is the only answer.

its time to boot them unionist parcel o' rogues in tae touch...................

228

Media 1,

25/03/2007 16:11:31

#246 IainGlasgow: To be honest Ian, I am not really to concerned about Ireland OR their political spectrum,which it must be said is a very different dynamic to Scotland's.

But whilst Ireland does not concern me Scotland does and thats why I will not be voting for the SNP. Its also the reason I would never vote for independence! I love Scotland and for that reason I could never vote for total independence..300 years of the union proves to me just how amazing the partnership has been and I will always respect it..

229

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 16:19:31

I can't see any mention of this story in the London newspapers. Only a promise by Gordon Brown to crack down on ministerial sleaze in the Guardian. Oh a wee mention there of Tommy Sheridan's bug. Shows how much they care about the Union.

230

Painted faces,

Fife 25/03/2007 16:20:49

#250 "I love Scotland and for that reason" now, forgive me for missing something, but, what reason would this be?

231

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 16:21:49

#241. Media 1: It's time for you expet facts, people who suport Scottish independence are never going to stop wanting it. I've heard they tryed to get rid of us once before in the past and it didn't work.

Your twised mumbling will win you no suport.

May I ask will you be present at this stand up gig in the Barrowlands, I'm sure AM would like a warm up for his gig!!!!!

232

toryheaven.blogspot.com,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 16:23:47

From the man who helped to drive a stake through the heart of the Union by so enthusiastically supporting the setting up of the Scottish so-called Parliament, this latest offering is as contemptible as his support for the English football team. As one dissembler prepares to leave Downing Street, another prepares to move in.

233

Lapidate,

East Lothian 25/03/2007 16:24:45

I doubt that this Union can be saved. Since it's inception, Scotland and the Scots have been treated as an administrative adjunct to England.

Many will remember the disgraceful way that the Tories dealt with Scotland through the 80's and much of the 90's. We had Tory policies foisted on us no matter how we voted. The Scottish Grand committee was stuffed with English Tory MPs because they couldn't muster any electoral support up here. All those who whinge about the "West Lothian question" conveniently forget that we had 18 years of the "Essex question that no-one asked".

What we haven't had yet is a Scottish Executive of a different political hue to Westminster. Labour in Westminster will squabble with the SNP, just as the Tories in Westminster would squabble with a Labour led executive - none of which advances the things that matter to people in Scotland.

Now is the time for Scotland to get out and chart it's own course. Ironically, I actually believe a union could deliver benefits, but only a union of equal partners. It seems to me the only way to get there is for the Scots to assert their right to independence.

234

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 16:25:17

#247. IWright: Cause they made it up by asking members of the labour party both North and South of the Boarder if they would vote Labour!!!!!

Thats my gess!!!!!

AM I right!!!!!

235

IWright,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 16:26:32

#166

TaxHaven
I'm not an economist but my understanding is that keeping sterling is an interim measure. The decision on what currency to opt for long term would presumably depend on the situation at the time of deciding. Even then, I'm not sure that linking to a currency outside your country is as much of a surrender of policy as you make out.
Defence spending in Scotland is less than our per capita share, and since we intend having an armed forces bases will remain.
Scotland is not a G8 country, the UK is. Hosting the Gleneagles Summit was a mixed blessing, the final balance I don't know. Bob Geldof may have launched something at Murrayfield but it wasn't broadcast by the (B)BC, unlike all the other stadium events!
As for embassies, there's an article in today's Sunday Herald, through FoI, about the lack of support for Tartan Week by the UK's ambassador to the US. Apparently he attended three times asmany St. Patrick's Day events as Tartan Week, and sends his wife along instead of himself to Scottish events. Further proof that the UK fails to rpresent Scotland overseas.

236

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 16:28:08

#251. IainGlasgow: May be you should link them in so they can engoye the fun!!!!!!!!!!

237

thomas,

midlothian 25/03/2007 16:32:09

gordon brown has not even thought that the english voters may reject him on the union and vote against him on that issue alone.

238

Media 1,

25/03/2007 16:33:55

EVE: I have accepted the facts.. 300 YEARS of facts!

Announcing your support for the SNP is the trendy thing to do in the pub or at a BBQ..But the reality is that when each person is placed in the privacy of the voting booth they tick the other box.

Roll on May!

239

David MacVicar,

web 25/03/2007 16:34:20

Unionist thought process:#2

I am proud to be british. In britian we punch above our weight and have a strong voice in the world. Scotland on its own will be a tiny fish in a very big pond.
My thoughts: I am sick of being british and the union for these reasons:
Military: Illegal war and proliferation of Trident.

Extrotion: The Westminster establishment extorts money out of Scotland, lies about the process and has done for over 30 years. This is a fact.

Self interest. The union is only a success or something to be proud of if the interests of all are
served. Wesminster has its own interstes at heart. The Scottish fishing industry is a classic example.

Health. Scotland has some of the lowest life expectancies and highet child poverty in Western Europe. Nothing to be proud of. It is a disgrace.

Scottish politics: Most 'Scottish' parties are only Scottish in Name, they are as Scottish as the Scottish Sun newspaper. Their politics are Westminster based and as a result make a mockery of devolved government. We are told that we are not allowed any additional powers either as if that is the end of the matter.

Unionist posittion is equivalent to: What is yours is ours and what belongs to you we donate as a gift of charity. Scotland only struggles along 'grace a nous'. If Westminster pulls the plug we will surely sink. We need the union because we need to remain subservient and struggle along on handouts. Only a sell out could take any pride in this.

240

Peter McWilliam,

Florida 25/03/2007 16:37:06

Media 1
"300 years of the union proves to me just how amazing the partnership has been and I will always respect it.."

I have to believe you're some sort of "Scotsman plant". To come up with barefaced guff like that boggles the mind. But then again, your comments have never ceased to boggle the mind over these weeks leading up to May 3rd.
You seem to have no sense or knowledge of Scots history over these last, wonderful 300 years, of the sacrifices that were FORCED on Scots who had no recourse to leaders within the country since they were all outside the country little concerned with the plight of those back home.
Anyway, I suppose we'll have to continue to read your comments as the "Scotsman" plant until it's all over.
Certainly keeps the juices flowing reading your material!

241

JimC,

25/03/2007 16:39:15

You know Media1 the situation for many in Scotland is one of hopelessness no prospects and a feeling of powerlessness i.e. The inability to improve ones quality of life. I think you do not understand the mood in Scotland, you don't understand what “Want” is, you don't understand what “Long term unemployment means” you don't understand that Scotlands young people have poor prospects and little or no training after leaving school, you don't understand why people are angry that 75% of their income is eaten up by high taxes and fuel costs. Only when you are in the same position as those above will you ever understand that what Scots want is a better life, a fairer system, a change in the political direction of Scotland that addresses those needs. If you cannot show empathy with those less well off than yourself then you will never understand.

242

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 16:42:14

Just looking from a Unionist point of view (if I can manage). The UK Government has repeatedly declined to set up a separate civil service for Scotland despite have set up one in Northern Ireland. From the point of view of devolving power in order to save the union, surely that would have been a better way to go about it rather than just setting up another legislature.

I suspect however the creation of a separate civil service for Scotland would reveal some economic and political facts the Unionist government would rather not reveal.

243

David Park,

25/03/2007 16:45:31

F.A.O. AM. As someone who believes wholeheartedly in Scottish independence, I totally condemn any anti-English comments.
Such numb-skullery only shows a complete ignorance of the problem we independistas are trying to solve.

Many English people have made Scotland their home and have contributed magnificently to the well-being of our country. They are, and always will be, a welcome addition to our 'mongrel-nation'.

However, there is a self-serving coterie of unionists who have no regard for the interests of Scotland and its people.
This unionist 'clientele' is only interested in preserving a system which maintains their social and economic hegemony regardless of the price paid by the other citizens of Scotland.
The new breed of New Labour careerists are archetypal of this 'coterie'.

I have a regard for the romanticism of many genuine unionists and, whilst I don't agree with their point of view, they contribute to a debate which is of paramount importance to the future of Scotland.

244

Darryl Matheson,

Elgin, Morayshire 25/03/2007 16:47:26

When people resort to personal attacks against Gordon Brown, it makes me realise they fear him and the impact he could have on the election.

245

IWright,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 16:51:30

AM goes "out for a walk" and then Media1 pops up with:
"The union serves Scotland well and those who disagree are basing their feelings on anti English sentiment or short sighted political understanding."

Now where have I heard that before?

246

Phil C,

25/03/2007 16:53:42

Media1 - Do you have a vote? Just curious.

247

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 16:54:16

#260. Media 1: What history books have you been reading?

So it's trendy to say you suport the SNP (if it is What makes you think that it won't happen in the polls & also be tredy to vote for them too.).

Have you ever Announced "your support for the SNP is the trendy thing to do in the pub or at a BBQ."?

P.S.
So are you going to be suporting AM on his stand up gig at the Barowlands?

248

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 25/03/2007 17:15:26

I an an SNP voter who currently lives in Finland.A peaceful country with aprox the same population as Scotland The Finns have access to free education,better health care and better public transport than the Scots.They can speak for themselves in the EU and give a lot of aid to developing countries.

The Finns wish to remain independent and would be very irritated if AM and other unionsists on the site were to apply their arguments to their country.They do not hate anyone,feel they are better than others,they just want to be independent.They are a normal country and that is what I would like for Scotland.

I have ENglish friends and relatives and they are intelligent enough to understand that because I am in favour of SWcottish independence does not mean that I am anti English.They do understand that I just want to change the system and enable my country to join the world.Actually it is the unionists that,paradoxically,sepperate us.The Finns always ask me why our country is invisable,apart from tartan and whisky.

Finland is a nice model for Scotland As an independent country they can decide what to spend their money on and they have made rather good choices.I will be voting for my SNP candidate in May and I truly hope that the SNP do really.
Dr Bill Reynolds

249

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 25/03/2007 17:25:53

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxjEP_yWPjA

A little message from the past to Gorgon. This I beieve comes from both sides of the border.

250

WHISTLEBLOWER,

25/03/2007 17:32:29

Why isn't the fact that 12,000 Orange men marched through central Edinburgh yesterday - against *Scottish* independence - front page news? They held up traffic for one and half hours. You know, it would have been nice to know, if I had been driving my car through town?

Are we really naive enough to think that "starving them of the oxygen of publicity" will make them go away, or are you trying to prevent the nutty end of unionism speed up the march towards independence?

251

Geoff Clee,

Hampshire 25/03/2007 17:42:03

"I want to save the Union" means "I want to save my job as next prime minister of England" The only reason he sits in the English parliament at all is because it is muddled up with the UK parliament, a deliberate ploy to ensure a majority by packing it full of foreigners

252

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 25/03/2007 17:44:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etzwxs6SCGc

This is another one. I know you have to listen hard to understand the words but is amazing how relevant they are.

253

INTER-nationalist,

25/03/2007 17:50:36

271 "Finland is a nice model for Scotland"

It seems every European country with a population if under ten million is a 'nice model.' Nationalists always take a pick-and-mix approach. In this case should we envy Finland's suicide rate for instance?

London Lex himself is always banging on about wanting to be like Norway, Ireland or Switzerland - odd how he wants Scotland to imitate other countries rather than be distinctive but that's another matter.

The fact is that London Lex never mentions the downside to any other countries. He yearns after the Irish growth rate but thinks this is unconnected with their poorer public services. We never hear anything about wanting to imitate the Irish rail system for instance.

We hear a lot about Norway and oil revenues but nothing about their isolation from the EU and subsequent rise of the far right. And I don't think to many Scots would take kindly to the cost of living there either.

Switzerland is another small nation paradise of the SNP's. One that comes with full national service and an armed citizenry.

Belgium has the largest -per head of population - neo-fascist party in Europe.

While there is much to be admired in other countries there is also a downside. To pretend otherwise is dishonest and citing any other country as a 'model' is disingenuous at best. At worst, relying on other countries as 'models' displays a far worse sense of belief in Scotland than any amount of abusive epithets hurled at those of us who prefer to remain part of the UK.

254

Yacker,

West of Scotland 25/03/2007 17:55:05

For all posters who wish, like me, to see an SNP government - don't get complacent because the SNP are well ahead in opinion polls. Never underestimate the power of the media. You can betcha that Gordon Brown, Tony B. et al will be doing all they can (with the help of most of the Scottish media) to secure another term for Labour and frustrate the aspirations of the Scots who aspire to independence for Scotland.
Don't be fooled....Brown WILL make a difference. The question is.. will he make a big enough difference to have the SNP clutch defeat from the jaws of vistory - again!

255

James England,

25/03/2007 17:55:16

Sottish Blair and Scottish Brown tell lies who will be the next Scottish Mininster in Blair's Labour Government to tell lies?

256

Winnipeg Willie,

Coming home :-) 25/03/2007 17:55:49

The message is quite clear - no one wants you Mr. Brown or "Scottish" Labour for that matter. You made your bed down south so go lie on it. Keep fighting for the World Cup for England and anything else English. Let the Scottish people decide for themselves if they want to manage their own affairs under the SNP or any other SCOTTISH party. They have the right to do that.

257

IWright,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 18:05:17

#274
""I want to save the Union" means "I want to save my job as next prime minister of England" The only reason he sits in the English parliament at all is because it is muddled up with the UK parliament, a deliberate ploy to ensure a majority by packing it full of foreigners"

Geoff - there are 646 MPs in the House of Commons, 528 of them represent English constituencies. The only way to "pack it full of foreigners" would be for the English to elect them.

646

258

English Bob,

Birmingham, England 25/03/2007 18:11:02

Please vote SNP

259

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 18:12:06

#278. James England: Yes they tell lies but they don't have too be Scottish to tell lies.

I think may be all Labour minsters are telling lies.

260

Displaced Scot,

Canterbury 25/03/2007 18:15:51

Devolution has been a doubled edged sword for New Labour. What they did not envisage was the reaction of the English voters.
The situation that we have now where students and the elderly are treated better in Scotland than in England, it would only be a matter of time before before the English voters woke up, and react.
Brown has woken up to this but hopefully it will be too late for him. I for one am looking forward to the end of this New Labour scripted drama, that has been running since 1997.

261

IWright,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 18:16:52

#276

INTER - I think you're missing the point. These other countries are similar to Scotland yet are successfully independent, despite in all cases except perhaps Norway, having less resources. The reason pro-independence people refer to them is as a response to the claim from some unionists that Scotland would fail to do well with independence. These countries are the evidence to the contrary.

262

,

25/03/2007 18:24:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 474459, Article id was mapped to record!
263

INTER-nationalist,

25/03/2007 18:24:50

285

No, I'm not missing the point. What I'm saying is that it is dishonest to cherry-pick from other countries to assume an independent Scotland would be able to take only what is good from them without ever mentioning the downside. For example anyone who has ever experienced the Irish transport system outside of the area covered by the DART would never moan about Scotrail again

264

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 18:27:35

INTER-nationalist / AM: Why do you want to be condemened is this the new unionist way?

P.S. AM, you still haven't given me the dates you'll be at the Barrowland (Barras) with your stand up gig! Is it some time soon?
Will you be posting details about it on your web site?

265

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 18:29:46

#286. Name: Was that comment supose to make sense?

266

Edward,

25/03/2007 18:30:33

I have never ever in all my life came accross such an arrogant piece of sh*t, as Gordon Brown. Who the hell does he think he is?
I watched Henry Mcleish this morning on the Politics Show, it was apparent that Henry was advocating more powers to Holyrood, allthough would not support independence. Bu the interesting thing was that he appears to be preparing the ground for post May election. His stance would indicate, that if SNP won, then Labour must go for a 'softer' option to independence, which they would offer for the referendum, or if by some chance Labour did get back, he would be pushing to have more powers transfered to Holyrood. The bogey in the hat though is of course, the next General Election, when it is expected that David Cameron will win , then any Labour led Holyrood adminstration , would be up sh*t creek, where as An SNP led Independent Scotland would not be effected.
Any which way you shake it, Gordon Browns British vision is a pile of crap!

267

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 18:33:46

Hi everyone heres the meaning of INTER-nationalist so we understand them a wee bit better:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalist

268

Keander,

Wishaw 25/03/2007 18:36:51

Brown is a traitor to his nation and should be put on trial for his crimes. The man should be ashammed. He runs the UK's finances, using Scottish oil while at the same time saying Scots couldn't go it alone. Lies, deceit and Gordon Brown

269

Winnipeg Willie,

Coming home :-) 25/03/2007 18:40:40

#295
HERE HERE!

270

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 18:41:45

#294. Hen Broon: What in the dark?

271

bullseye,

NEARLY FREE ALBA! 25/03/2007 18:43:19

#31 - Agreed animal farm should be essential reading again! It was in my days at school!

And lets put a stop to the lie that Nationalists hate anyone. We are all jock tamsons bairns in this country. I see no hate here, just 'browned off' voters who have had enough of the union, dont be dragging racisism, or biggotry into the argument, it is an old cheap trick- unfitting to the debate!

I say again WE ARE A NATION! Gogsy broon et al choose to forget that point all the time, and it will be their undoing-mark my words!
All this cosy unionist guff, what scotland will lose blah,blah- its all smoke! They can bluster away till the cows come home, but at long last their rhetoric is falling on barren ground. The new labour parrot is a dead parrot, it is deceased, it is no more.
Scotland the nation is no longer listening to the deceivers, and on May 3rd will vote them into history. Sure the SNP are untested but that is the worst excuse for not voting for them, read the policy documents, it has a rich vein of 'sensible' about it.
I for one would rather try the untested hopefulls than the tested hopeless!

IT IS TIME!

272

Eve,

Scotland 25/03/2007 18:46:19

#295. Keander: What an Idea.

If your goney try Brown for that, do also think it would only be fare to also try Tony Blair, Maggie Thatcher, Doglas Alxsander, Adam "Useless MP" Ingram, All the Scottish tories (The 1's that want to be in the union) and the some all the (still living) politision that have done our beatfuil country (Scotland) wrong over the year.

273

David MacVicar,

web 25/03/2007 18:51:34

#276. Some good points. However it is normal to look abroad and look at successful policies or examples that work. Every country has its problems even the most successful ones. It is right and proper to look at things that work in other counntries and adapt them for our own benefit. It is also right to see see what has failed elsewhere and avoid the mistakes of others. As is often the case some focus on what works while others focus on negative campaigning. See a trend here?

We are in the dubious position however that we are
already very close to something that doesnt work at home - the Union. Lets try to fix whats broken in our own neck of the woods first eh?

274

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 25/03/2007 19:00:44

276. Let me see now. Do not cherry pick from other countries without looking at the downside.

Thatcher chose the American model of healthcare. Blair has chosen the American model of international relations. Whether you realise it or not, we are all walking around armed because of Trident.

You see, the bigger the gun, the less personal it becomes.

275

David MacVicar,

web 25/03/2007 19:02:46

Brown - "the SNP don't want to talk about independence". Yeah sure - Alex S. has been running scared and in hiding while Jack McConAll has been trying desperatly to get him into a debate.

Time Gordy came down from planet Union.

276

WHISTLEBLOWER,

25/03/2007 19:07:54

Brown - "the SNP don't want to talk about independence".

It's most of what they've been doing this last while.

And the more the Lanarkshire Mafia talk about it, the fewer votes Labour will get.

277

DonMac,

Inman, South Carolina, USA 25/03/2007 19:08:49

"Yes, you do that, Mr. Lincoln. You go ahead and save the Union no matter what the cost."

278

WHISTLEBLOWER,

25/03/2007 19:10:59

"Some of us are actually proud to be British and wish to remain so. There is nothing wrong with that at all."

There's nothing wrong with being a Babylonian or Mede either, but they're dead empires too.

Britishness is a concept from Empire, and the slavery which supported it economically for so many years. God bless Wilburforce, but Britain continued to exploit and conquer most of the planet for over a century more.

And Britishness was a concept to co-opt Scots, Welsh and Irish into the project

279

Syrsa,

A Scot in Florida 25/03/2007 19:11:18

Just looked into a Swedish newspaper site and they have this on the front page about Gordon Brown sitting picking the snotters out of his nose then eating them. He then actually wiped his hand on his tie.. it's all here on film..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwgTvM1DtQo

280

walter,

25/03/2007 19:20:03

Brown has been likened to Stalin, that may be the case in the way he treats those who work under him.
But when I read the comments day in and day out on here amongst other places I have come to the conclusion that Stalin and Hitler would have been proud to have the nationalists in their Parties.
The rhetoric is similar to what was heard from Milosevic and when I read those words I wonder if a Balkans or Rwanda awaits Scotland.

281

David MacVicar,

web 25/03/2007 19:25:06

#284 and #291. I agree, the next few years there is going to be a sea change but things are a bit too close to call at the moment. There are a number of scenarios in the next few years and most I think will result in an independent Scotland.
SNP gains a small majority. LIB LAB joins forces against them over the referendum question and results in public backlash.
SNP gains a small majority and joins forces with LIB DEMS. If SNP caves in over independence they would lose voters. Indepenedence would be set back, people would lose faith. IF LIBS agree to referendum the SNP only have prove themselves. Referendum result could depend on how well they govern.
Reagardless LAB LIB could still form an alliance unless SNP get an unlikely large number of seats.

Meanwhile back at the ranch the Tories win in Westminster. Regardless of who is in the devolved parliament there will be mounting tensions with Westminster. This will imo swing more people to independence whether they like the SNP or not.

282

IWright,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 19:36:11

#287

Sorry, you're still missing the point, no one is saying independence is a panacea or that the other small European countries that are referred to don't have their negative aspects, but what they have and we don't have is a government putting our interests first and policy reflecting our needs and wants. An independent Scotland would have the following policies that a devolved or federal Scotland will never have:
Economic policy that is right for the Scottish economy rather than the City of London and the SE of England;
Foreign policy that doesn't involve invading other countries (legally or illegally), a foreign policy oriented to pomoting international peace and co-operation;
Defence policy that doesn't involve WMD sited in Scotland, massive war casualties or military adventurism overseas;
Energy policy that would prevent fuel poverty in one of the most energy rich countries in the world;
Education policy that includes educating Scots about their own country and their tremendous cultural heritage;
Cultural policy put Scotland back in the European
mainstream.
As for Irish railways; Ireland has a national transport plan for both road and rail, when they are finished they will have a better transport infrastructure than us, Dublin has a successful and expanding tram network and is building a metro.
They are starting from a lower base but they are overtaking us.

283

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 25/03/2007 19:38:14

306,Syrsa. I reckon the video shows Broon trying to stop himself falling off his seat.

284

,

25/03/2007 19:46:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
285

IWright,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 19:48:46

#307
Walter - it seems the closer we get to independence the more absurd and offensive becomes unionist rhetoric.

286

Kenny A,

Scotland 25/03/2007 19:50:39

#307

Left the old brain in the tank on that one.

287

Kenny A,

Scotland 25/03/2007 19:52:31

#312

Might come back

288

IWright,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 19:59:44

I'm getting concerned for AM, he went for a walk at 4pm and he's not come back - (well not as AM anyway). Perhaps he's been ethnically cleansed by some Stalinist Nazi racist anti-English Milosevic-loving Scottish separatist trying to wrench Scotland from the union so we can live in a third world Albanian style socialist republic.

289

Buckfastleigh,

25/03/2007 20:00:09

#145 ought to realize that Boredom Groan is not boss in his own house but his government is and does have a real advantage over those in Norway, Switzerland and Lichtenstein who he claims can do as they wish outside the EU.

Far from it they receive and implement what the EU governments agree jointly without having had the part in taking the drcision and in most cases a real say in drawing them up.

Scotland independent , within the EU, would have a direct say unlike now when only Groandon B. and his colleagues take these decisions and not necessarily doing the best for Caledonia.

290

Calum Crubag,

25/03/2007 20:02:57

I wonder if Brown, MacConnell and the rest of the Tories and Unionists were all on the Orange March in Edinburgh yesterday? What great bedfellows.

291

langtonian,

scotus 25/03/2007 20:05:12

This post is at no.300,a quick look at the general level of S.N.P. comments shows no improvement in anything remotley creative, with very few exceptions it is the same old "who dare meddle with me claptrap",historicly I go back to the1960 elections and all subsequent contests, nothing has changed, they have learned nothing they mump and they moan. Try and find any valid up for it poisitive political forward looking thinking.
Alec Salmond offered his 100 day manifesto only a week ago and nowhere is there to be noted any upmarket comment on that.Surely if that document is anything, it is a declared S.N.P. policy.
So it can be taken as read there is no great stirring of the blood from that source .The majority of this current S.N.P. postbag can continue with Hoochin and Hollerin as they have from the 1960s.With very similar results the likely outcome-NIL- POINTS-ZERO, ARE VE DERCHE, HERES TO THE NEXT TIME.

292

Ian on earth,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 20:07:43

These boards are becoming a bit boring now because of the lack of spirited opposition to independence. I think this demonstrates that the arguments for keeping this union going are being exposed as extremely feeble hence its difficult for any unionist to come up with a good post. INTERNATIONALIST is all we've got left who is deploying the usual scare tactics, ie. we're incompetent losers who should be happy with our lot. Come on union guys there must be something positive you can say.

293

Sanny,

25/03/2007 20:13:30

32. U. Lukenatmepal: -
I think perhaps you should have waited a little longer and did a little research into the reasons that Blair agreed to the Scottish parliament. It wasn’t an act of folly on his part, but an act of self preservation. Had he not, then the Council of Europe would have imposed sanctions on the UK, for failing to comply with their instructions, that the situation of Scotland was unacceptable in the family of European nations. Even then he tried to fudge it by holding a referendum in order to delay and hopefully show that the Scots did not want this Parliament.

The implications in the later part of your post is correct, in that they – the Labour Party – have done their utmost to ensure that the Parliament had only the minimum powers they were forced to agree.

On your thesis of “Things Can Only Get Better”. If you are referring to the SNP then I would agree, however in the case of the Labour Party they have shown clearly that things can become considerably worse and will do, if they are reelected in Scotland and we have to face a English based Tory government.

Take a look at the financial analysis paper produced by Niall recently; titled “The Great Deception”. There you will see why Scotland under a Scottish government in a fully functional parliament can and will make rapid progress. You will also see why Brown MUST tell any lie to keep hold of Scotland’s oil wealth to fill the black holes in the UK economy.

The demand for a Scottish nation isn’t just about oil, even without oil Scotland has the resources to move into the top nations of Europe. The oil – while it lasts will allow us to accelerate this process.

So U Lukenatmepal should perhaps widen your vision and perspective.

294

Robbie,

NZ 25/03/2007 20:15:02

A comment by Mr Ian Wilson, Grand Master of the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland really summed up the position of the Union. Mr Wilson said he was "concerned" that there had been little celebration to mark the anniversary. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/edinburgh_and...
Because Mr Wilson most English people (THIS IS NOT ANTI-ENGLISH - JUST A STATEMENT OF FACT) have never given the Union a second thought -- its not a biggie in England or throughout the World.
Mr Wilson and his Orange cohorts are an anachronism - they are some of the greatest minds of the 17th century.
They were marching in defence of a Union that if more people in England were aware of - they would be quite content to ditch. The majority of English people couldn't care one way or the other it would mean little change to them or their thinking. (THIS IS NOT ANTI-ENGLISH - JUST AN OBSERVATION).
Now the EU 50th anniversary that had more coverage in the English and World press.
"European Union leaders have attended a gala concert in Berlin celebrating the 50th anniversary of the bloc, which was founded by the 1957 Treaty of Rome."
Surely there is a message for Mr Ian Wilson, Grand Master of the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland, which he doesn't get; Scotland, the Union and its 300th Anniversary are of little relevance to millions of his southern neighbours.

295

David MacVicar,

web 25/03/2007 20:31:26

The clockwork orange lodge are a society stuck in the past and even they can see the union has failed. I wish they would just carry on marching right out the country we would be better for it.

Maybe when AM said he was of for a walk he really meant march? However I think he is busy trying to find a hole in Nials figures. Looks like its harder than he thought.

296

Derick fae Yell,

The Hoose 25/03/2007 20:31:32

#316

AM?
Amongst the tumbleweeds on the empty wastes of the Sunday Herald boards today is to be found one John MAthers. And the tone of Dire Warning seems awful familiar!

Now now, I never said anything about getting things backwards or made any inference
Cheers
Lley aef Kcired

297

morris,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 20:32:39

307

You are typical of many Unionists.You know you cannot win the argument so you pretend that you can.If it makes you feel better posting absolute drivel like this with absolutely no factual content whatsoever,fair enough.
You look stuid though

298

Joanna,

Cambs, England 25/03/2007 20:34:23

Robbie @ 322

The Orange Lodge is of little relevance to England ... I can assure you of that. (THIS IS NOT ANTI-SCOTTISH - JUST AN OBSERVATION).

In fact, I am very saddened that these divisive marches still take place in modern Scotland.
(THIS IS NOT ANTI-SCOTTISH - JUST AN OBSERVATION).
We've seen the damage that these marches have caused in Northern Ireland.

Your comment about Mr Ian Wilson's 'southern neighbours' thinking that Scotland is of no relevance to England is not true, though. Many English, despite the best efforts of some Scots, still like Scotland and the Scottish people. Which is why so many English visit Scotland every year and make a large contribution to their tourist trade.

299

Graham Simpson,

Vancouver and Edinburgh 25/03/2007 20:40:35

#241 Media 1...

Thought I'd have some fun with your posting, to show you an example of how anti-Independence spin doctors work. Only four words have been changed in your original paragraph and yet it becomes much more truthful.

As proud Scots whose ancestors fought for Scotland and protected her from foreign invasion (guess from whence) we should all be doing our bit to ensure that the union dissolves. The union serves England well and those who disagree are basing their feelings on anti Scottish sentiment or short sighted political understanding.

Scotland dissolves Scotland Scottish
Britain remains England English

The first line contains your words the second line are my replacenments.

Ye...of course It's time!

While I'm here... I thought I should take the opportunity to apologise for some of my more exuberent colleagues who refer to you as the 'Village Idiot'...I know for a fact that you live in the city!

300

Robbie,

NZ 25/03/2007 20:46:29

326. Joanna, Cambs, England
I agree with nearly everything yoyu say326. Joanna, Cambs, England
I agree with nearly everything you say but I'm not saying English people per se dislike Scottish per se they just have in the past never thought mush about the Union - hence no big cerebrations or street parties - what have all you neighbours got planned?
Look Joanna the Aussies don;'rt spend a great deal of time thinking about the Kiwis nor the US about the Canadian - that's just how it is. My point was that the Grand Master of the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland
was surprised. I like you and most reasonably minded people find it hard to believe they s(Orange lodge) in the 21st century\y when so many of their basic tenets are false.
Have a good evening - away for coffee and a talk about our 'do' last night. Love to all Robbie

301

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 25/03/2007 20:47:30

322, Robbie. The Orange Lodge is against aything from Rome.

302

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25/03/2007 20:50:35
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303

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 25/03/2007 20:56:32

#65. musicismylife
"Scaramouche is under orders to stay in bed today as he isn't feeling very great."

Thanks again for your support. Nurse the great one back to health as only you can! We need him back on track.

304

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 25/03/2007 20:57:25

#148. Eve
Sorry, my machine went belly-up - and I have dyslexic fingers. You're not angry at me are you?

305

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 20:58:33

#322 / 326

The entire ethos of the Orange Order is celebrating the subjugation supression of the people of Ireland. They are a chip off the same block as those who were responsible for slavery of which this weekend we are marking the abolition. Indeed they are no better thank the Klu Klux Klan. We don't celebrate the subjugation and decimation of the culture of Native Americans, Maoris or Aboriginals and nor would we tolerate an organised celebration of it.

These disgusting sectarian people are great a puss-oozing sore on the face of Scottish society and it is high time they and their marches were outlawed. To that end I will be writing to my MSP very early in the next session of parliament.

306

Sambo,

The deep south 25/03/2007 20:59:28

Having listened to everyone wringing their hands and rallying for a change in May, it will be interesting to see Scots put their votes to work.
After 10 or so years in power with the Labour Party it seems that the people are complacent and like the idea of them taxing yourselves into oblivion.

307

Suomi,

Salo Finland 25/03/2007 21:01:04

Unbelievable the response to my email by no 276 (Inter -nationalist).Obviously he or she doen't know that I am am an expert in mental health.Of course I know about the suicide rate in Finland and I also know about the high suicide rate in my own country of Scotland.I think that suicide is a complex topic but it doesn't mean that a country is not entitled to independence because of mental illness.In fACT THE whO PREDICT THAT BY 2020 the most serious health problem on the planet will be mental illness.

The point about nationalists ta<rgetting every country under a population of ten million is a srtrange one.Is it being argued that unless you have a population of less than 10 million that you should not be independent? In that case a lot of påeople bneed to be prepared tro be dependent on somebody else.The Finns that I live with,including mt Finnish wife would suggest that no way would they give up their independence just because their only have a population that matches Scotland.

308

Joanna,

Cambs, England 25/03/2007 21:01:14

Robbie 328

You're right about the English and the Union... they didn't used to think about it much, but I would say that they have become much more aware of it since 1997 and the Labour government. Then, devolution for Scotland reiterated it a bit more..... I think you'll find that if you asked the average English person they'd think it was only fair that the Scots governed themselves ....... and quite a few probably think that they already do!!

The people who are trying to hang onto the Union are the politicians and we all know why that is!! Jobs for the boys (and girls!!).

As for the Orange Lodge ... it most definitely is an anachronism and is not something that most English are involved in. Liverpool is an exception to this ... I know.

Enjoy your coffee :)

309

Egon the blade,

25/03/2007 21:05:03

Gordon is a Moron, was that a hit in the 80´s ?Let´s make it death in the millennium..........

310

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25/03/2007 21:14:24
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311

langtonian,

scotus 25/03/2007 21:23:28

Standing at the corner of Edinburgh High st, and the Bridges I had an excellent view of the Orange order parade of some 85 bands,I could view both up and down the route of the march.The bands performed and gave a very satisfactory parade, there were very large numbers of spectators and all proceedings were ordely and on no occasion did I see the police having to take any action.
While such parades are frowned upon in certain quarters it is still their right to continue to do so, and it would be best to let it remain so , if for no other reason it would drive the organisation into becoming a secret society which on the basis of their parade it is patently not.

312

morris,

Edinburgh 25/03/2007 21:26:54

What I think is significant above anything else,is most people here in Edinburgh think that they will get a tax rebate!
I can understand the higher earners who will benefit from Broons Budget,even though they will probably vote Tory (its Edinburgh remember).What I find upsetting is the others are almost entirely Labour supporters and this should tell us a lot about what the average Labour voter has between the ears !
(a non existent tax rebate evidently which is actually higher tax than before)
I presume we do all know that unless your free pay allowance rises in line with inflation every year,you have a greater proportion of your pay become taxable when you get your inflation only matching rise,so you actually earn less than in the previous year in real terms.
Come on Unionists,challenge this one and show us you cant do arithmetic either.

313

Robbie,

NZ 25/03/2007 21:27:17

334. IainGlasgow, Glasgow
"Indeed they are no better thank the Klu Klux Klan."
Hi Iain - If one reads the history of the KKK - it was founded by exactly the same 'types' as the Orange Lodge - 'Scots-Irish' from Northern Ireland who seem to have this propensity for bigotry and intolerance.
They have a distorted view of history and an unbelievably distorted view of the meaning of 'Freedom'.
http://www.grandorange.org.uk/

314

The Strategist,

25/03/2007 21:31:14

Two other consequences of Brown's budget have popped up..

Firstly because of the 2p cut in income tax this now means that in order to maintain the value of your pension contributions then you have to put in 2.5% more because of the tax relief issue. It also means the Treasury is having to shell out less.

Secondly, an economist writing in the Sunday Times has calculated that a small manufacturing company turning over £10m, with profits of £400k and investing £600k in new plant and equipment will see its corporation tax bill rise by double. A £20m turnover company will see its tax bill rise by 65%.

Banks and financial services type companies will be the biggest gainers.

More proof perhaps that Brown and his City pals are out to deindustrialise the entire country.

315

Robbie,

NZ 25/03/2007 21:32:56

337. Joanna, Cambs, England
Thanks Joanna I did - put in the garden - another great day and yet 10 days ago we had rain and wind. Summer = winter summer again - it made me homesick.
"I think you'll find that if you asked the average English person they'd think it was only fair that the Scots governed themselves." This is what many of us believe and honestly feel that once both nations have sovereign legislatures. our relations will be far far better and amicable. If this is more rambling than usual it's because I have to hurry and go out. Catch you later.

316

getinnnn,

Scotland 25/03/2007 21:49:54

"Save the Union from the SNP"!!!!!!!!!: Shouldn't He be saying;" from the SCOTS"!;Who should collectively decide to say **** the Union!!!!!!!We didn't want it when it was formed in the first place! PLEASSSSSE don't let Labour or any other sweettalkers tell us what WE think again! We always listen like dumb spongues!Let's THINK FOR OURSELVES! and STAND ON OUR OWN TWO FEET!......OR ARE WE GOING TO LET THE ******* uk take us where no Scot wants to go AGAIN!!!!!

317

Graham Simpson,

Vancouver and Edinburgh 25/03/2007 22:00:42

#326 Joanna Cambs...

Joanna the Orange Lodge has no releveace in Scotland either. They are a social dinosaurs. When I was kid in Edinburgh they were actualy banned from marching there again, because of their 'brownshirt' behaviour with their 'bully boy' escorts armed with batons as if daring the citizens to interfere with there march. Hitler would have loved them!

I suppose now that we must be politically correct we must let them loose on the 12 of July again every year. They are an embarassment to Scotland.

318

Scotsman in Dublin,

25/03/2007 22:02:59

Brown is fast becoming an embarrasment to Scotland. What is he saving Scotland from exactly, self determination? All things being equal I expect to come home within the next two years and it would be a dream come true to be back in time to vote in an independance referendum.

Scotland has a historic opportunity to grasp something that none of us have ever had before, the chance to live in our own country ruled from within our own borders. Our greatest national heroes, Wallace, Bruce and Burns were all nationalists but unlike in their time, all we need to get what they wanted is to vote. Independance is the only way Scotland can move forward, all other options are a step backwards.

319

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 25/03/2007 22:17:25

I see that Brown's politics are as base as Bush's. Is Karl Rove on retainer there? Brown devines that "'it was his "duty' to save the Union from the SNP" and "ruled out any plans to give more power to the Scottish Parliament saying it was not necessary." IT IS NOT NECESSARY THAT YOU REMAIN OCCUPIED! This is not about "independence" but about some reasonable self-determination. Scotland lacks the integrity of even a State within the United States. Who in Scotland is stupid enough to further the careers of vermin like Brown? Now, for an apt quote from Scotland's Bard:
"O, would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My old grey head had lain in clay (be buried)
With Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour
I will make this declaration :-
'We are bought and sold for English gold'-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!"

320

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 25/03/2007 22:25:42

By the way, I performed with my pipe band last night opening for Rod Stewart in San Diego. Now, there is a man with Scotch pride, charisma, and an ability to connect with everyone. What a show! What an experience! What a great prospect for Scotch politics!

321

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 25/03/2007 22:32:52

Hey, someone please tell me why Brown's party is called "Labour"? Is this Orwellian for "Capital"?

322

Greig frae oz,

Sydney 25/03/2007 22:40:40

Go for it Gordon the Gopher.
The most wonderful thing about this election is the constitutional crisis Britain will find its self in.
Scotland supplies 72 mps to the westminster parliament when Independence comes those 72 seats no longer exist, Brown, The possible Pm and Reid are instantly out of a job, no seat no mandate.
Also the Union that makes Britain was the union of the parliaments of Scotland and england when Scotlands removes herself from this the united kindom and great Brittain no longer exist, big jiucy fact.
Europe cannot recognise the UK without Scotland.
The will be no mandate to hold the 6 counties of Northern Ireland so they must be returned to Dublin control, these are just a few of many things that will change the fundamentals of this island.
Its Time

323

,

25/03/2007 22:47:06
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324

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25/03/2007 22:50:28
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325

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25/03/2007 22:56:01
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326

Andy M.,

25/03/2007 22:58:16

#363 but we have not decided to live here "permanently"

Surely you wouldn't expect someone renting to be able to alter a house?

If you are not committed to Scotland, why should we think you have Scotland's best interests at heart?

327

John S,

25/03/2007 23:03:01

Where is angry Jack McConnell ?

328

,

25/03/2007 23:05:05
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25/03/2007 23:06:51
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330

IainGlasgow,

Glasgow 25/03/2007 23:12:26

Labour can't even get their own people behind their lost cause now.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.1284...

331

G K Guthrie,

Alabama USA 25/03/2007 23:26:20

"revealed he wanted to create a deeper partnership between England and Scotland than ever before"

hope one whose ancestors fled can comment on this: They took the lands. They took the language. They took the religion. They took the royal family. They took the capital. How much deeper can they get?

sounds like the Native Americans trying to appease the English who came to North America

332

McGinty,

Abdn 25/03/2007 23:26:21

New laws pose a threat to the religious (and thus civil) liberty of certain groups including schools, publicly funded charities and individuals. This legislation, I believe, is dangerously intolerant and we need widespread and fair media coverage of these issues, and hopefully they will not get lost amongst Unionist/Independence arguments. This is potentially a more important issue, more important than even economic arguments, challenging our traditions and freedoms even more than Margaret Thatcher ever did. This for me is a significant moral issue about democracy, freedom of speech and fair government.
My feeling is that by not re-electing the Tories or Labour but rather a smaller party, albeit at the expense of Unionism, we (Scotland) use May to the full to increase democracy by balancing power. Brown has used stealth economically and no doubt will carry on the in the same way as his predecessor, deceiving and conniving in Social Policy. So in respect of treatment of certain minorities, Brown may well turn out to be a kind of Thatcher, if not Stalin.

333

McGinty,

Abdn 25/03/2007 23:30:06

AM
These criticisms of you are only opinions as I'm sure you're aware - don't treat them as gospel.
G'nite

334

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 25/03/2007 23:39:53

# AM. 349
We are going off topic slightly, but your post invites this. Vis-à-vis your go at #236 Doonhamer, I think you got a bit muddled. You say: "Imagine for a moment that you married an English (wo)man. You live in England. You own
property there. You are not just visiting for a while. It becomes your home."

Yes, all of these I once did, yet my wife's legal representatives during divorce proceedings identified me as "domiciled" in England. Never mind the fact that my wife was born in Germany (albeit to English parents who sent her to boarding school in Singapore - work that one out.). She was stated in proceedings as being "resident" in England, while I was hmm, marginalised.. Racist, separatist, or what? I regarded that distinction offensive then and regard it offensive now.

You have apparently got your history a touch distorted. You say that Doonhamer's post "shows a complete failure to appreciate a key attribute of the Union." Untrue. You further state: "We are four nations, but in a true union to form a single nation ..." Sorry, we are not and never have been "four nations".

Scotland was a nation, England was a nation. Northern Ireland and Wales were never nations. One was/is a province, the other a principality. Agree?

335

Miss Jean Brodie,

25/03/2007 23:45:02

Good to see this abolition of slavery thing kicking about these days - but hey! They seem to miss all the details about - firstly the Scots and Irish and English who were sold into slavery in the colonies - and I believe the numbers way outnumbered the Africans - Why don’t they report this ????

336

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 25/03/2007 23:48:58

RE: #375
"Yes, all of these I once did, yet my wife's legal representatives during divorce proceedings identified me as "domiciled" in England. Never mind the fact that my wife was born in Germany (albeit to English parents who sent her to boarding school in Singapore - work that one out.). She was stated in proceedings as being "resident" in England, while I was hmm, marginalised.. Racist, separatist, or what? I regarded that distinction offensive then and regard it offensive now." I am a lawyer of a descendant legal system (in the U.S.A.). I am confident that the terms "domicile" and "residence" were used for reasons of venue and choice of laws rather than for any concern over Scotland. Let's move to more productive topics.

"Northern Ireland and Wales were never nations. One was/is a province, the other a principality. Agree?" No. Dalriada was a nation whose Scoti that created yours, Scotland. Wales was its own nation before conquest by Rome and then England. But, I say this for the sake of history and not in relevance to the political issues raised by the article above.

337

The Wizard,

OZ 25/03/2007 23:51:13

Hope I am not included in 'the dodgy expats' referred to earlier.

I have always been for Scottish independence and the fact that I live in OZ does not devalue my patriotism one whit.

By the way, I emailed 'The Battlefield Trust' re the Bannockburn development. Got a reply. Hope more people will email them--look them up on the www.

338

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 25/03/2007 23:52:57

RE: #376
"Good to see this abolition of slavery thing kicking about these days - but hey! They seem to miss all the details about - firstly the Scots and Irish and English who were sold into slavery in the colonies - and I believe the numbers way outnumbered the Africans - Why don’t they report this ????" Absolutely false. I have many roots in Colonial America some of whom have much better royal lineage than the Windsors and some of whom were quite prolific in slave holdings. The common knowledge here in the U.S.A. is that Africans greatly outnumbered Europeans as slaves here.

339

Frank, MD,

26/03/2007 00:09:41

#351

Didn't want to think you were alone. Just accept, like me, that the latter part of your life will be a lot more unpleasant. There is anti-English racism from a MINORITY of Scots, and independence will fuel that as certainly as devolution did. I lived in Glasgow for 6 years in the 80s and can honestly say that racism was never an issue. Nor was it 1994 when I returned to Scotland after a time back in England. Sadly it has definitely emerged as a problem over the last 10 years. My children have suffered racist bullying, a practice defended on these Scotsman message boards by nationalists.

As before I will simply get on with my job in the NHS, and enjoy my personal life with others, who are mostly Scots (and who are all Unionists!).

I do wonder where we will be if separation occurs (?2010). I have a British passport. I will be resident in Scotland. Will I be allowed dual nationality? I'm not Scottish (except by ancestry), but I've never considerd myself English, always British. But Britain will disappear. What will happen to my children? 2 born in Scotland, 2 born in England. The oldest (born in Scotland) is a lawyer in England. Will she be allowed to stay in England? Will my youger children (English by birth) be allowed to compete on equal terms with native Scots, especially as they have a double whammy of English parents AND English birth.

As long as I can make sure that I can put some of my investments in England if I have to run for security in darker days to come, I'll just get on with life now.

340

livilion,

livingston 26/03/2007 00:21:13

351. AM, Glasgow
>>>Perhaps I will ask one last time...<<<

Promise?

>>>How many nationalists will now condemn the comments in 196 and 202?<<<
#196
“If you don't like our ways, move on.”
Just so,'White settlers' have been a thorn in the side of many communities here for some time.
One of our many cherished freedoms is the freedom to leave.

- “if you are a unionist then you have to be a liar”
You've got a point, you don't have to be a liar, but history shows that it sure helps.

- “Voting SNP makes you "more" Scottish”

I agree you don't have to vote SNP to be "more" Scottish.
Some very Scottish people don't/can't vote at all.
Being fed unionist propaganda with mother's milk would make some very Scottish folk tend to Unionism, it doesn't make them bad, just misguided.

- “if you really feel more British/English (synonymous) than Scottish, you are living in the wrong country”
Wouldn't you feel more at home where these traits are more common, rather than trying to make us feel more English/British?

- “Why do you not simply take your bowler hat and disappear off to Northern (soon to be Eire) Ireland.”
Suspect this is a reference to Orangeism, for which you appear to tick the boxes.
My very 'Irish' sounding colleague from LONDONDerry is not Oirush, he's very, very Brudash!

“You are symptomatic of your unionist pal's predicament which therefore will soon be flushed away by the realities of history. Adios.”
When Scotland becomes independent Unionism will be consigned to history, same as anti-devolutionism.

- “You asked if I am denying that British nationality exists. It is a good question. My answer is YES!”
Fair do's, we dissagree.
British nationality, isn't this the catchall for all those we feel uncomfortable about calling English?

#202
“toadying, blinkered unionists, grovelling

341

Name,

26/03/2007 00:23:04

Loving the usual racist and bigotted comments from the Scottish Nationalistics.

342

siusaidh,

26/03/2007 00:24:36

*349
AM ..you're talking a lot of tosh....I wasn't born in Scotland, but sure would and have always called myself scottish since living here, which has nothing to do with Scotland being within the UK.
More so the opposite is true...I can't wait to finally be able to get scottish nationalility, which will only be able to be fullfilled with scottish independence.
It's a way to finally belong to a country,that I've called home most of my life.

Anyway...even after independence people from other areas of the UK are still able to call themselves scottish, when living in Scotland.

Don't quite get where you are coming from AM, apart from that you don't really seem to like living inScotland....but then it is your choice where you whish to live.

343

livilion,

livingston 26/03/2007 00:24:43

379. Robert Burns
Hey, I tried to post on the BBC slavery blog that my grandfather had been sold into bondage to a farm here in Livingston just before WWI and they refused to print it.

344

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 26/03/2007 00:26:00

#377. Robert Burns
Neat faux-name, but unconvincing to the natives, including myself. Your so-called lawyer's comments are as irrelevant as the rest of your post. Your grasp of Scots history is classically American. Go dream on about your "royal roots". We Scots have more important matters to attend to.

345

Robbie,

NZ 26/03/2007 00:26:53

349. AM, Glasgow
"We are four nations, but in a true union to form a single nation..."
This is the bit that I and others do not know why you find it so hard to understand that we are not in an 'equal Union'. For so long the rest of the World (including even English speaking nations) have not ever considered the UK a true Union of four equal countries. I have said before and will eventually make a list of history books that I have studied (American. Australian and 'British') where Britain (UK not used so much in the 'past') is used as being synonymous with England. To deny this is foolhardy as the proofs abound anecdotally by most Scots and factually by the before mentioned books.
This whole debate about the Union has not managed to gain even a few seconds on TV in New Zealand and I would wager anywhere else outside the British Isles and ‘maybe ‘the EU (has it been mentioned by the European Partners? - who likely still don‘t understand it and are never enlightened) Some woman being throw off ‘Big Brother ‘ in England and other facile stories sent to our media from London has.
Posters such as Royster claims that this is of no importance. He believes that if the World has a completely false impression of the United Kingdom it matters not as they are all to busy earning a living to learn the ‘truth’.
In 300 years the Westminster government has not thought it worth while correcting any misconceptions about ‘our equal Union’. Even when signing the Famed (in NZ) Treaty of Waitangi - the British Government state it was in the name of the Queen of England. If and when Scotland and England become independent sovereign nations - it will hit the news Worldwide (people - Mr Royster will stop and take notice and say in assorted languages “Eeh! that’s nice for them they be able to both joins us at the UN instead of just England.”
Tourism will rise and the four/five nations of the ‘British Isles will have better relations.

346

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 26/03/2007 00:29:31

RE # 382:

You say, "LLoving the usual racist and bigotted comments from the Scottish Nationalistics." I agree with you on "biggotted", but the newest DNA research indicates roughly the same race throughout the U.K. no matter how hard that is to accept. I'm, of course, skipping over those from Pakistan, etc.

347

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 26/03/2007 00:34:43

RE # 384"
You said that you "tried to post on the BBC slavery blog that my grandfather had been sold into bondage to a farm here in Livingston just before WWI and they refused to print it." Pardon my ignorance and typical USA geography-challenged education on where "Livingston" is, but, it appears to me that BBC didn't read your attempted post, doesn't post everything it reads, didn't believe what you wrote, or decided to protect the guilty. There is still some slavery found in the USA albeit criminal and hidden.

348

livilion,

livingston 26/03/2007 00:37:39

380. Frank, MD
>>>My children have suffered racist bullying, a practice defended on these Scotsman message boards by nationalists.<<<

Utter mince!
Bullying upsets nationalists as much as anything else could, and mistreatment of any kid, for whatever reason, is just as likely to gain you a 'thick ear' for your troubles.

As for kids themselves, they are cruel to anyone who is in anyway different, that's life.
They get over it, eg. as they would if they were 'cosmetically challenged' .

As for your 'double whammy', your only issue would be with an English(superior) attitude.

349

John S,

26/03/2007 00:39:47

#30 (Saltire) Add following countries to your list:-
Andorra 71,201
Monaco 32,543 (member of the UN)
San Marino 29,251 (member of the UN)

350

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 26/03/2007 00:40:21

RE # 385

Angus, it's interesting that you would call my name "faux". What's wrong with English or Scots? Is this "Made in Hong Kong" commentary? My website is www.OBLaw.com, and only your comments are "faux" as in Faux News.

I don't dream of my few drops of royal blood. I do groan at the "royals" you folks pay allegiance to whether in Imperialized Scotland or in Imperialized Hong Kong, and dream of highter consciousness some day taking hold there.

351

siusaidh,

26/03/2007 00:42:18

*380
Why make it sound so complicated?
There are many country's around the world, who allow dual nationalilty....get a grip and try living in the real world......
Stop listening to Browns scare tactic's and try to see it from reality.......the main real change would be ,that schottish people would be able to have a say what will happen in their own country.
Why is this so difficult to understand for those so called unionist's?
The union outlived it's time.....time for change!

Why should we in Scotland be constantly told by London government polititions what we can and can't do?

352

Robbie,

NZ 26/03/2007 00:43:15

369. a proud doonhamer
“ Unlike you, most, if not all, of the nationalists, on this site are committed to permanent residence in Scotland, for this is OUR country.”
Hi Doonhamer, not trying to cause a disagreement with you but some of us ‘over the sea’ simply believe in the sovereignty of all nations. Many of us for numerous reasons (family and circumstances) would not be moving back to Scotland permanently (you’d sink if we all came back) but look at the small (especially Western ) prosperous nations of the planet and believe self-government is the right and ‘normal’ state for a country to be in.
I believe your tourism would greatly increase as we would all most likely come home for the celebrations but then we may have a job in our adopted homelands making sure our governments and people are more aware of the reborn nations of the old Union. Going from the posts from around the world (except for South Africa) most from the Scottish Diaspora back independence.

353

siusaidh,

26/03/2007 00:48:09

*386
Quite a valid point there.
Most times when Scot's are talked about from people from aroad, they are referred to as english....most Scot's [and those ,who live in Scotland] find this an insult.
We just want to be known by our own coutry and not by our neighbours country.....

354

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 26/03/2007 01:27:42

#391. Robert Burns

Groan away at the "royals you folks pay allegiance to whether in Imperialized Scotland or in Imperialized Hong Kong" .

That would not include me then. I, like my respected Chinese friends and colleagues bow to no god in the guise of your imagined "imperialized". Please go back to your simplified American life and leave us Scots (and normal others) alone.

355

Conan,

Here 26/03/2007 04:52:47

Enough talk - Independence NOW - as it was once, now it shall be again, and this time FOREVER.

356

Royster,

26/03/2007 05:33:14

#236. An awful lot of people are proud to be both Scottish and British. Please get off your high horse and stop dictating how people should think.

357

Ken L,

Harrow 26/03/2007 07:09:15

This is a very sensitive issue that requires careful handling by both sides. In all, the citizens should decided.

www.seferm.com

358

Christina McKelvie SNP Candidate Hamilton South,

26/03/2007 08:25:07

Why am I being sensored????????

359

Christina McKelvie SNP Candidate Hamilton South,

26/03/2007 08:25:42

Censored........ sorry still sleeping been out campaigning all weekend!!!

360

GP,

26/03/2007 08:36:37

Too little too late.

The games afoot!

361

Jemima,

north of scotland 26/03/2007 10:15:39

what has been censored Christina? I have also been out canvassing at the weekend, in the rural wards - wow!! Four hours to talk to 20 people!!

362

siusaidh,

26/03/2007 10:17:35

*396
Quite right...well said!

363

Bill, Dunblane,

26/03/2007 10:45:06

402/3 - Christina

Probably because this is not a hustings forum.

What if all the candidates started posting? There could be no reasoned debate.

I suggest you post whatever comments you like to make WITHOUT saying who you are, and you will probably find no problems.

I did suggest the same thing to you a couple of weeks ago. ;)

364

Greig frae oz,

Sydney ex Dumfries 26/03/2007 11:41:43

Get over the racism crap yes there is anti english sentiment in Scotland get over it.
I now live in Sydney Australia guess what? there is anti english sentiment here also, why? maybe the whips and chains maybe the slavery maybe the torture of human beings maybe the destruction of the Tasmanian aboriginals, this is a trend the english have repeated across the world and across time.
When you sow the seeds of hatred you reap a crop of bitterness, 2007 is harvest time for england lay low for once shut your mouths you have done the damage now its time for those damaged to heal themselves once that has been achieved we will extend the hand of friendship but not yet.
Its time

365

dyon gollins's back,

26/03/2007 12:17:45

Maybe everyone else in Scotland should take it as their prime duty to save the country from bull-boy brown, the alexander sisters, moaning jackie and all the other Labour place-people so that a confident country can be created in place of the whining anti-democratic begging-bowl election cannon-fodder place so beloved of the labour rotten burghs.

366

The Wizard,

OZ 26/03/2007 12:51:32

#408 Greg

I think you are being a wee bit too harsh with your comments. Certainly the formation of the British Empire saw many injustices but to assume that all the perpetrators were English is going a bit far.
I am sure there were Scots, Irish, Welsh etc., involved and all we can do now is make sure the same things never happen again.
That means getting rid of people like Dubya, Blair and his cohorts for a start.

By the way, I am a Scot and her indoors is a Pom!!

367

Greig frae oz,

Sydney ex Dumfries 26/03/2007 13:08:08

414 granted point being we can each move forward without dependency but the fact remains Scotland is not an imperialist country and has no natural enemies other than those who by their actions and agressions against us have chosen to be so.
Our enemies now are those who stand in the path we tread towards a real and tangable future of self determination, and you are right the enemy of Scotland is not the englishman but the Brittain and the Brittish `thinker`
its time

368

Joanna,

Cambs, England 26/03/2007 13:43:24

Those who say that the English were the only 'baddies' during the British Empire are ignorant.

Lord Elgin the one who stole the Parthenon Marbles was Scottish. Field Marshal Douglas Haig the head donkey who led the lions in WW1 was Scottish. Lord Balfour who made the Balfour Declaration and created the Israeli/Palestine situation was Scottish. To name but 3 of the well known ones..... and what a legacy just these 3 Scots have left.

There is an old saying that the Scots built the Empire and the English gave it away. Perhaps its time to face up to your past as well.

369

Joanna,

Cambs, England 26/03/2007 13:51:19

In addition to those who think that only England was involved in the slave trade .... have a look at this link:

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1558&id=43101...

370

Joanna,

Cambs, England 26/03/2007 15:54:29

Richard,

I'm of both English and Scots descent :) .... however, I don't see why England should bear the entire burden of guilt for the Empire.... I just like parity of treatment and perhaps poster 408 should bear that in mind as well.

371

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 26/03/2007 16:35:03

411, Upbeat. In cae you have not noticed, the unionist rabble on these forums are being given a taste of the medicine dished out to the SNP by Unionist politicians.

Delivered in kind by the nationalist rabble.

372

,

26/03/2007 17:27:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 477181, Article id was mapped to record!
373

siusaidh,

26/03/2007 18:18:25

AM seems to have taken over from Media 1...or are they both the same person?

374

Buckfastleigh,

26/03/2007 22:33:51

#398 good for what? Brown is completely dominated by the treasury officials; he appears to have sparred with the PM on many occasions and often dominated policy. Do you recollect his five "tests" to join the Euro?

He subsequently told us under his "brilliant" stewardship that the UK economy had failed to pass these!

Some chancellor Gordon; you obviously managed to do worse with the national economy than Greece or Slovenia did, as they presumably passed these tests quickly to join the €.

Go back to England and do your sums again, or you may risk being offered an honorary Economics Degree from Edinburg on top of your previous one.


 

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