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Al-Qaeda's white army of terror

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Published Date: 13 January 2008
HUNDREDS of British non-Muslims have been recruited by al-Qaeda to wage war against the West, senior security sources warned last night.
As many as 1,500 white Britons are believed to have converted to Islam for the purpose of funding, planning and carrying out surprise terror attacks inside the UK, according to one MI5 source.

Lord Carlile, the Government's independent reviewer of anti-terrorism legislation, said many of the converts had been targeted by radical Muslims while serving prison terms.

Security experts say the growing secret army of white terrorists poses a particularly serious threat as they are far less likely to be detected than members of the Asian community.

Since the 7/7 and 21/7 London bombings, police and intelligence services have had considerable success in identifying, disrupting and stopping extremist plots. As a result, groups such as al-Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba and Harkat-ul-Mujahideen have been forced to change tack. Converting white non-Muslims has been one response.

The trend is well established in the United States. American-born Adam Gadahn is one of the FBI's top 10 most-wanted terrorists after converting to Islam and rising through al-Qaeda's ranks to become a prominent spokesman.

One British security source last night told Scotland on Sunday: "There could be anything up to 1,500 converts to the fundamentalist cause across Britain. They pose a real potential danger to our domestic security because, obviously, these people blend in and do not raise any flags.

"The exact figure of those who have converted to Islam and turned to terror is not precisely known. Not everyone who converts becomes radicalised and it may be that just two-fifths go down that path, but it remains a significant and dangerous problem."

Carlile said he was not aware of specific numbers, but confirmed to Scotland on Sunday that Whitehall was aware of the new threat and was actively tackling it. He said: "These people are an issue and are potentially very dangerous. There have been cases of non-Muslims converting before, and of these, Richard Reid, the so-called Shoebomber, is the most obvious example.

"They are more difficult to detect and the security services are right to place some focus on this issue."

Carlile said the majority of converts were targeted when they were in prison: "These (converts] are outside the standard type of profile which most police forces would have of a terrorist, which is male, young, and of Middle Eastern or Asian appearance. That is why they are so potentially dangerous."

Carlile added: "The Home Office has a lot of money, millions of pounds, which is being put forward for communities and fighting radicalisation. There is no question how tackling this issue is best achieved: it is achieved at a community level."

Security experts say radical Muslims in prison have become adept at identifying potential new recruits to their cause. Those in custody for the first time, the young and the lonely are particularly susceptible.

Initially, the approach is made to comfort, console and support, with very little reference, if any, to religion.

However, after several 'chats', the conversation will be turned towards the subject and, gradually, over a period of weeks or months, it is possible to complete the conversion.

Robert Leiken, director of the Immigration and National Security Programme and a specialist on European Muslims based at the Nixon Centre in Washington DC, said: "To me, the figure of 1,500 seems reasonable as many, perhaps less than a third, will actually go on to become radicals.

"New religious recruits always tend to be more zealous than those who have grown up with that specific religion."

Edwin Bakker, a Dutch-based security specialist, has studied at length the issue of radical conversions. He said: "The question is relevant and timely. Newcomers to Islam are extra-sensitive to perceived discrimination of Muslims and Islam-bashing.

"They feel they have to defend Islam – one of the essential concepts of Jihad – and they feel they have to prove themselves as newcomers."

But one of Scotland's leading Muslims disputed the claims of radicalisation, saying Islam's strict moral code made it unattractive to many westerners.

Bashir Maan added: "I do not know of any Islamist terror group in Scotland and, considering as a Muslim a person must pray five times daily, abstain from drinking (and] sex outside marriage, adhere to strict dietary and many other rules, it is impossible to convert to Islam a young person brought up in this very liberal society.

"I agree that the security services must be vigilant and keep their eye on everybody, but I think in this case they seem to be over-reacting."

The full article contains 788 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 January 2008 9:54 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Terrorism in the UK
 
1

Consistency,

John Smith House 13/01/2008 00:47:15
"HUNDREDS of British non-Muslims have been recruited by al-Qaeda to wage war against the West, senior security sources warned last night."

This seems to be saying that hundreds of non-Muslim al-Qaeda recruits are intent on waging war against the West - we'll need to look out for practising Presbyterians, Roman Catholics, Jews, Mormons, Atheists, etc.

Then we are told they are not non-Muslim at all, but are fifteen hundred 'white Britons' who are believed to have converted to Islam for the purpose of carrying out attacks inside the UK:

"As many as 1,500 white Britons are believed to have converted to Islam for the purpose of funding, planning and carrying out surprise terror attacks inside the UK, according to one MI5 source."

Richard Elias, just what was the point of that first misleading sentence, when your second one made clear the story you are trying to tell?
2

,

13/01/2008 00:53:44
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3

icehawk,

13/01/2008 00:53:53
At some point you just get sick and tired of hearing "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!! THE TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO GET US!!!"

Enough already. The overblown, rediculous claims that the bad guys are going to get us is getting old. At what point will the news media finally say, enough already.
4

Clan-destine,

kyoto Japan 13/01/2008 00:53:54
pathetic scaremongering of the worst journalistic kind!
When the IRA were active we never heard of them mentioned as "Catholic terrorists"This type of media garbage does not help the situation one iota but only inflames it.....as intended.Write any sh**e for a good story and whatever you do don't let any of the truth get in the way of it!
5

Conan the Librarian™,

13/01/2008 00:59:23
1
What is the world coming to.

I agree with AM2...
6

Guga II,

Rockall 13/01/2008 01:05:01
Not only is this yet another attempt to try and put the frighteners on people, it is totally contradictory.

We are told that they are recruiting "white" people, yet these are people "of Middle Eastern or Asian appearance". How can they be white and still be of Middle eastern or Asian appearance? Moreover that Reid character, i.e. the "shoe bomber" was not only not white, but he was of negroid appearance.

We are also supposed to believe that they have managed to convert 1,500 white ex-prisoners to their cause (ignoring the fact that if they are white, they cannot be of Middle Eastern or Asian appearance). Are we really meant to believe that 1,500 ex-cons have agreed to go along with Muslim ideals and behaviour patterns?

Whoever came out with this garbage should really try and get out in the real world; either that or stop smoking whatever it is that they are smoking.
7

Kipling,

13/01/2008 01:13:17
I think what he's saying, #1, is that the kind of Islamic 'convert' who honours the 5 pillars of Islam as well as adhering to other social Islamic behaviour is a rarity. Unfortunately, there may well be many a convert who adopts the religion rather like drop-outs in the 1960s thought they were Hindu by simply chanting 'Om' and sitting in a dark room in a yogic position.

But going back to the stirring of the population of these isles to set each upon the other: how many of us had heard of el-Qaeda before '9/11'? It's always been the case that young Bangladeshis and Pakistanis don't like the British, much as the Africans in discussion with each other will slag off the colonial empire and continually refer back to 'slavery' as if those white people around them should carry a sack of guilt on their backs and therefore positively discriminate in their favour. We've also invited into the country a ton of people who have no political loyalty towards us. The notion of 'patriotism' is lost with most of this lot because it relates to the previous long term inhabitants of these islands. But despite this, like some other posters I sense a great danger of approaching the kind of thing that went on in the Soviet bloc, where the idea of the invisible enemy led to great repressive movements. Where do you stop in slyly investigating how far a person's beliefs and political sympathies will result in solid violent action? Brown has probably killed more elderly people with his policies than any little proto-muslim nerd came near to massacring. We've got to get this propaganda into perspective, without going in completely the other direction & denying that there are a bunch of single or organised fanatics out there. Remember the Omaha bombing, all the newspapers calling for blood against the Arabs, and then it turned out to be some right-wing junkhead?
8

,

13/01/2008 02:09:43
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9

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 13/01/2008 02:40:06
WHEN.I.COME.HOME.DO.I.CALL.MYSELF.A.WHITE.SCOTSMAN
10

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 13/01/2008 02:42:28
DEAR.GOD.WHY.DID.THEY.NOT.LISTEN.TO.ENOCH
11

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 02:49:00
Some of did and when such events as the bus blowing up in London the streets flowed with blood, ............
12

,

13/01/2008 04:12:45
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13

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 04:35:35
Revelation, ................. got it all covered, ..............
14

C.U. Jimmy,

The original and best C.U. Jimmy 13/01/2008 05:00:57
Apart from the hysterical and gushing prose, I think your headline writer's "white army of terror" must be breaking several Race Relations publishing guidelines at the very least. What is the reader expected to do: run around shouting "Oh dear, the sky is falling" (again)?

This is not the SoS's finest piece of journalism - though to be frank it's a long time since 'fine journalism' and 'the SoS' belonged in the same sentence.
15

Daniela Sunders,

USA 13/01/2008 05:18:53
Some have posted comments such as "Enough already. The overblown, rediculous claims that the bad guys are going to get us is getting old."

Really? Anyone read the news two days ago from Paris? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=507760&in_page_id=1811&ito=newsnow

How about from Germany yesterday? And the warning of the plots in Germany comes from a majority-Muslim nation, no less:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/01/12/germany.terror.ap/index.html

I guess because the foiled attack at Glasgow Airport some months ago didn't result in carnage, and even the 7/7 attacks were not as bad as the terrorists had intended, not enough people take these threats seriously.
16

Amani_Bunduki,

Canberra 13/01/2008 05:35:47
It's just never going to stop... what a mess.
17

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 06:29:58
its a mess all right, and a mess of our own making, we let our elected officials to give in to sop and c*** spouted by these people.

We are now starting to pay the price, I only hope you americans who read this take note and fix it
18

scotusexiguus,

USA 13/01/2008 06:34:05
May I suggest a recent book entitled "America Alone" by Mark Steyn, a Canadian writer. He discusses the massive international demographic changes over the last several decades, and the impact they already have had on Europe (hence this article; "youths" rioting in France; the GLA and LON attacks) and is beginning to have an effect on the Western hemispere as well -- at least Canada & the US. To one who watched the Twin Towers burning on 9/11/01, this is all very real. It can be blown off as 'scare mongering,' but it is a real possibility that Scotland - God forbid - will face sharia law before gaining independence. Alba gu braith, but "Casteal Foulais na' theine!"
19

,

13/01/2008 07:05:14
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20

,

13/01/2008 07:24:39
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21

Hamad Lone,

UK 13/01/2008 07:41:30
More scaremongering....You say "As many as 1,500 white Britons are believed to have converted to Islam for the purpose of funding, planning and carrying out surprise terror attacks inside the UK, according to one MI5 source."
Does this mean that they are only converting to Islam for the specific purpose of carrying out these acts. If so, then they are not really muslims.
22

,

13/01/2008 08:01:15
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23

El Sabio,

South Africa 13/01/2008 08:07:31
It must bebecause Islam promises the "converts" a one way trip to paradise and there will be 40+ virgins waiting to satisfy their needs.

Islam gained many converts in South Africa dusring the Apartheid era as it offered more than Christianity.

We are in the clash of civilisations. This is not something that will go away easily.
24

,

13/01/2008 08:36:30
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25

9/11 was an inside job,

Fife 13/01/2008 09:02:24
Member of Japanese Diet Doubts Official 9/11 Fairy Tale

On January 11th 2008 member of Parliament Yukihisa Fujita of the Japan Democratic party, made a 20 minute long statement at the House of Councillors, the upper house of the Diet (parliament) of Japan. He questioned the official version of 9/11 presented to the Japanese government and the public by the US administration in a session of the defense commission.

http://www.truthnews.us/?p=1644
26

lielayer,

13/01/2008 09:16:54
16
Daniela Sunders,
USA

Pyrrhus on the Potomac:
How America's post-9/11 wars have undermined US national security

http://www.comw.org/pda/0609br18.html
27

Yane,

Melbourne 13/01/2008 09:32:38
#29 I don't know about all the theories about an inside job an all but I thought it was interesting that the Japanese politician thought it was a matter for police. But this is not a radical, unusual view is it? I heard Gore Vidal say the same thing.
28

Calum Crubag,

13/01/2008 09:44:10
HOw can Britons who've converted to Islam be described as 'non-Muslim'??? It seems to assume the Islam is a race, itself an imaginary concept.

Once again, the evil of religion rears it's head. Sure, Muslims want to conquer the world but what religion doesn't? Hence, we have Catholic schools and 'religious observance in schools to brainwash our children. It seems that Christians and Muslims alike find it difficult to keep their 'personal' faith to home and church.
29

Calum Crubag,

13/01/2008 09:45:59
#13 - i think this guy is really Chairman Gordon fae Allt a' Bhonnaich.
30

Paul Carline,

Scotland 13/01/2008 09:51:13
#29 & 31. Indeed, 9/11 was not an attack on America from outside, but a mass murder organised and carried out from within America. It should have been treated as a crime investigation.
But let's not forget that no evidence has been presented to the British public that the four young Muslims alleged to have carried out the bombings in London on 7/7/ were even in London that day. Despite having more CCTV cameras per head of population than anywhere else on the planet, no images of the four at any tube station or on any bus have ever been released. None of the bus's four CCTV cameras was apparently working. Suspicious? I would say so. (No cameras working when Diana died; no cameras working on the Pentagon on 9/11 either).
And what about all the alleged 'plots' our brave police and security services have uncovered? 'Ricin plot'? No ricin ever found. 'Liquid explosives on planes plot'? It's not possible to make liquid explosives on a plane. Are we supposed to believe this garbage? Why should we believe anything the security services tell us?
They're just part of the government plot to maintain a high fear level so they can pass more restrictive legislation and suppress dissent. Same tactics the Nazis used.
31

Murray G,

UAE 13/01/2008 10:03:43
I am an atheist but I do note that it is 1429 this year in the Islamic calendar. What were the Christians doing in their 1429? Well among other theocratic brutalities, Joan of Arc was about to be burned alive for heresy. mmm..
32

ddmc,

13/01/2008 10:07:18
The media calls him Al-Qaeda but his father calls him Adam Pearlman & his grandfather was a senior member of the american JDL.

This guy is responsible for helping release all these ever so convienient (for Bush) Bin Laden video's claiming he is still alive & well. Even though there is a large body of evidence that he is dead, he had end stage renal failure but of course we all know that he had a dialysis machine installed in his Afghan cave.

The last person to claim that bin laden is dead was Benazir Bhutto & we know what happened to her !.

But of course i'm a deluded conspiracy nut, our goverments & security forces would never attempt to manipulate our media by planting false stories or placing agents into newspapers to control the release of disinformation. That only happens in the movies.
33

Aesop,

TheScottishPatient .com 13/01/2008 10:25:04
"As many as 1,500 white Britons are believed to have converted to Islam for the purpose of funding, planning and carrying out surprise terror attacks inside the UK, according to one MI5 source."

All hail The Ministry Of Truth.
34

Transparent?,

Scotland 13/01/2008 10:45:45
What's new? We have a terrorist in Holyrood masquerading as First Minister and what he plans to do to Scotland certainly terrorises me!

Dictionary definition of 'terrorist':

"One who favours or uses terror-inspiring methods of governing or of coercing government or community"
35

Niall Leighton,

Perth 13/01/2008 10:46:49
Richard Reid? Is this the guy who tried to detonate plastic explosive in his shoe using a match?

Let's just think about this for 3 seconds: he tried to detonate *plastic explosive* in his shoe *using a match*.

Ohhhh!!! I'm scared!!!
36

Calum Crubag,

13/01/2008 10:50:27
#35 - interesting points. Yeah, that other middle-eastern Arab creed, Christanity, has a proud record of mass murder. Especially against other 'christians'. How many European women were 'executed' as witches? How many other Spaniards did Fascist Catholic Franco kill? How many did Catholic Hitler kill?
37

Media 1,

cape town 13/01/2008 11:11:09
I dont believe that Al Qaeda exists. The enemy has no face because the enemy is actually the ally! Give it a name, create a face and we are all fooled into believing that the enemy actually exists as something seperate from our own government...
I honestly believe that the powers that be commisioned the hit on the twin towers! That order was then passed down to another trustworthy runner, and within two years you had some young Muslim lads taking orders from older clerics. The ultimate order was now so far removed from the source that it was impossible to trace, and none of the people carrying out the order knew better either.....The hit came, the enemy was identified as Al Qaeda, the man behind it was known as Osama Bin Laden and the target was Iraq and Saddam, not the identified enemy!
Some 6 years later and that war is still going on, billions of dollars are being made in the west and just as its about to come to an end, the new enemy has been identified as Iran. The process of brainwashing has begun, Iran is the next target, NOT OSAMA BIN LADEN and this so called Al Qaeda!
38

an interested party,

13/01/2008 11:15:33
it should come as no surprise that the departments (mi5/6)that we employ to jump at shadows do exactly that

there job is to overstate there case and 'put the frighteners on'

you are far more likely to die in a work place accident than at the hands of the evil terrorists

more people have died in road accidents in the last year than all the coalition forces have lost in iraq

perspective is sadly missing here

oh and No 16
foiled attack at Glasgow Airport

it wasn't foiled it was doomed to failure from the off
and a level of attack that hardly instils fear
39

Yane,

Melbourne 13/01/2008 11:20:53
#41 Come to an end in Iraq Media 1? When?
40

Helga,

13/01/2008 11:44:04
The terrorists have already won! At what intervals are we being warned by our masters? I think we should be told. What is uplifting though is how many comments reflect the view that this is scaremongering of the worst kind. It is self-defeating because many of us will simply ignore it and continue to live life normally and that is how it should be. Who constantly thinks about falling under a bus or being killed in a car accident, having a heart attack or be fatally contaminated through an accident at a nuclear power plant - all these things have happened and the list is never ending. So, MI5, just cheer up, do your job properly and quietly in the background - that is what you are paid for by us, the tax payer.
41

Nansaidh,

USA 13/01/2008 11:47:58
9/11 an inside job?? Check out this site for the evidence: www.loosechange911.com. It was a "wake up call" to watch this. I'd be interested to see if anyone else will watch this and comment....
42

jkr,

Lochwinnoch Greater Glasgow 13/01/2008 12:21:06
As has been shown time and again, the biggest threat to this planet is religion.
43

morris,

Edinburgh 13/01/2008 12:42:55
You only have to look at USA origin TV to see what's happening.Almost every show produced in the USA in the last ten years has an Al Quaeda terrorist in there,somewhere(and Im not talking about documentaries),and if thats not scaremongering and brainwashing I don't know what is.

Even if this proves to be correct HOW exactly did we establish how many there are but cannot name or catch a single one?Unless of course you count Brazilan plumbers as terrorists.
44

Biker,

Ayr 13/01/2008 12:43:14
Well said Media1
45

revsween,

13/01/2008 12:46:29
5clandestine#The troubles in Ulster were about territory it was not the aim of the PIRA to convert the rest of us to Catholasism so they were terrorists who happened to be (in the main )catholic.
Al qaeda are fundamentalist muslim terrorists whose ultimate aim is a muslim planet goverened by shiara law.A new caliphate were all our rights and freedoms are replaced by burkas and hijabs .It really is time we woke up to what this is all about
46

,

13/01/2008 12:54:54
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47

Supe,

13/01/2008 12:56:58
#48 Morris, you need to watch something besides 24, because Hollywood carefully avoids "bad guys" who are Arab or Muslim. Even 24 did a disclaimer.

Europe is in greater danger than the United States, but is in mass denial. Maybe there should be a little "scaremongering" across the EU, but that would get in the way of the utopian dreams you have over there.
48

Gothic Rose,

13/01/2008 13:06:22
28#Rab the Ranter.:)))
49

Martha,

13/01/2008 13:22:20
Since when are middle easterners not "white?" They are Caucasians. They are not Negroes or Orientals. Of the three races, middle easterners belong to the huge group of people of caucasian origin, despite their somewhat darker skin, just as many east Indians are also caucasian by race. Skin color is NOT a determinate of race. Hair type and jaw shape, among other things, are far more indicative of race than actual skin color, which among caucasians does vary widely.

To call converts to islam in British jails "white" Britons is ridiculous, as some of these converts are no doubt of sub-Saharan African ancestry and are no doubt distinctly negroid. They might also be of oriental origin, with ancestors from Malaysia, China, Burma, or the like.

There's an easy solution: refuse to let radical imams into the prisons.
50

Chaya,

13/01/2008 13:24:12
First of all, the words 'non-white' is not useful at all. Those from Muslims countries are primarily Caucasian, what we generally refer to us 'white.' Some of them are darker in complexion but they are white. What the article should have said was 'non-Arabs.' This is a real situation; it is not 'scaremongering.' If the police haven't been doing their job, we would be seeing a lot more attacks. Then, what would you say? What has to happen for you to realize that this is a war?
51

westview,

planet of the apes. 13/01/2008 13:29:23
Well said, *47*. The aetheist view point should be given at least the same amount of time to brain wash our children ,as the superstitious religeous one. Another small point . Do priests and nuns and imams have to obtain the "working with children" certification that other adults must get ,to work in schools and youth clubs etc? If not ,why not?
52

Dragonlord,

13/01/2008 13:35:27
Keep the population afraid and you can pass any law you wish. More boggiemen under the bed crap.
53

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 13:36:33
Lord Carlile's an odd cove, on one hand he's keen on extending the period of detention without charge and on the other he's noted as the first Member of Parliament to campaign for the rights of transsexuals.

So if the majority of non duskier hued potential terrorists are being recruited in the pokey, do we introduce segregated prisons?
54

Gedda,

UK 13/01/2008 13:49:01
"Strict moral code"? Don't make me laugh. For Muslim women maybe.

For men? How about polygamy, easy divorce, temporary 'marriages', traveller 'marriages' (misyar), marriages to very young girls, forced marriages etc etc.

How moral is that?
55

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 14:01:39
#60

"How moral is that?"

Great isn't it? Imagine if 'we' could get away with that.
56

,

13/01/2008 14:23:53
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57

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 13/01/2008 14:30:18
Darn those Non Asian Non Jewish or Christian Undemocratic Freedom Fighters! Who do they think they are? It's because of them the FT index and Dow Jones are constantly fluctuating. Any more of it we will need to increase the price of oil and install even more hidden cameras.
58

lielayer,

13/01/2008 14:56:36
62
arkletten

Muslim prayer for peace:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_peac.htm
59

Sunniva,

13/01/2008 15:03:03
Morris 48:
'You only have to look at USA origin TV to see what's happening.Almost every show produced in the USA in the last ten years has an Al Quaeda terrorist in there,somewhere(and Im not talking about documentaries),and if thats not scaremongering and brainwashing I don't know what is.'

Stunning analysis, Morris. For some real facts go to:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2115891,00.html

... and find out the real culprit is Islamic theology.
60

revsween,

13/01/2008 16:12:10
66# Don't you mean realists?
61

Rita,

Warren 13/01/2008 16:35:51
it's time all you fools went back to the asylum, next time out try to put your brains in gear before you put your mouths in drive
62

yockel,

Green Hills 13/01/2008 16:41:03
Wasn't Peter Hain who released this story was it? Perhaps MI5 are just in a budget review.
63

Media 1,

cape town 13/01/2008 16:54:14
No matter where you are in the world, mention America and people usually just sigh and shake their heads in pity! I guess that is due to the American war machine, the one that says it is there to protect, yet is more prone to destroy in the name of hard cash!
I watched Bush adressing a hall full of Muslim leaders and politicians earlier today, and he was quite adamant that Iran is acting like a rogue state.
I wonder how many people the Iranian army has killed in the last 6 years, or how many bombs the Iranian army has dropped on foreign territory, or how many collateral damages incidents the Iranian army has had in the last 6 years, or how many countries the Iranian army currently has posts within. I also wonder how many nuclear weapons Iran has by comparison to America?
Funny thing about this world, is that the people who we are supposed to trust, are the one who create the chaos! Bush is a war mongering terrorist ba@tard who probably worships the devil whilst pretending to be some sort of Christian crusader!
I am not that naive to believe that the other side is not a danger, but lets remember why they are now a danger!
Al Qeada is a non entity, they dont exist! It is brainwashing supreme..
64

revsween,

13/01/2008 17:08:27
73Media#I agree pretty much with what you are saying about Bush and the USA.However the spread of Islamic Fundamentalism is a long term threat to the West.It scares the cr4p out of me that we have sundry mullahs on one side and neo con christians on the other.The real threat to our way of life comes not from Iraq but from Whabbism in Saudi they are funding extremist clerics in the UK and most other countries.Problem is the Saud and Bin Ladin families are up to their armpits in the American stock market so the Bushes and Cheaneys of this world continue to sell them arms.It is a bad situation
65

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13/01/2008 17:20:19
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66

revsween,

13/01/2008 17:27:38
75 #The equivelent of an islamic reformation happened when the religion split Shia and Sunni.As Peter Kay says Islam is like British weather its either Sunni or its Shia-ite
67

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 13/01/2008 17:29:13
I agree with no 38, We always suspected he was in the same bed as jerry adams and the Ira we in the armed forces have never had any support from this so called first minister nor his cohorts, so a terrorist yes I agree with you
68

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 17:59:32
#77 Hi Daveserviceman, how are the plans for overthrowing the elected Scottish government by violent means coming along?


69

Eric D,

13/01/2008 18:08:00
Carlyle is independent of Government , in fact he is a liberal democrat ,and the idea that he is making it all up is preposperous. Any serious minded persons knows the next muslim attack will come from a white convert, as has happened in Belgium and Germany recently.All independent analysts believe that UK is especially vulnerable to further attacks. Unfortunately, it will take another seious bombing to convince the many dhimmi's on this board.
70

richtee,

deep river 13/01/2008 18:08:24
what is scarier than the thought of all the terrorists
running around is the number of absolute heidcases
that contribute their loony opinions on this website.
Get a life and worry about the price of gas.
71

Iain's,

13/01/2008 18:16:49
Now the authorities can ignore profiling suspects and waste time searching people with non-muslim backgrounds. GREAT! search white families.

Overtime and doubles all round, as they say in Private Eye!

Those whom Allah wishes to destroy, he first makes mad!!!!!!!!!!!

Join Liberty before it's too late1 I did.
72

Please enter a different name, this is in use,

South Carolina, USA 13/01/2008 18:30:27
"The trend is well established in the United States. American-born Adam Gadahn is one of the FBI's top 10 most-wanted terrorists after converting to Islam and rising through al-Qaeda's ranks to become a prominent spokesman."

Oh, really? Adam Gadahn was recruited in prison? First I heard of it. . .

And since when does one example meet the criteria of a "well established trend"?

There is too much in this article that is not based on fact.
73

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 18:40:07
Adam Yahiye Gadahn (Arabic: ??? ???? ???, also known as Azzam al-Amriki, born Adam Pearlman, September 1, 1978) is an American-born English-language senior operative, cultural interpreter, spokesman and media advisor for the al-Qaeda organization.

He is a convert to Islam.

From 2004 to 2008 he appeared in a number of videos produced by the organization as "Azzam the American" ('Azzam al-Amriki, ???? ????????). He is felt to have inspired bin Laden's September 2007 video.

In 2004, he was added to the FBI Seeking Information - War on Terrorism list. On October 11, 2006 he was removed from that list, and placed on the Bureau of Diplomatic Security Rewards for Justice list of wanted terrorists. On the same day, Gadahn was indicted in the Southern Division of the United States District Court for the Central District of California by a federal grand jury for treason. He is the first American charged with treason since 1952.
He is currently believed to be in Pakistan or Afghanistan[citation needed] and is being actively sought by the Bureau of Diplomatic Security. (wiki)
74

Griffe,

13/01/2008 18:41:50
Easy answer - reinstate that death penalty for acts of treason. When terrorists are found charge them with treason & if found guilty execute them. Humans rights & democracy are what al Qaeda feeds on.
75

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 18:53:40
the human rights act is the biggest tool in the fundamental Islamists box.

they play it and win every time.

just look at the mess in Canada where the Canadian Gov. fully funds hr cases against coitizens who have to defend themselves and have no right of appeal.

WAKE UP what will it take before you see the big picture???
76

revsween,

13/01/2008 18:58:50
85 # typical leftwing tactics if anybody questions your argument scream racist or fascist.Islam is not a race its a religion ,whos ideal is a Muslim World under sharia law.The teachings of the ever increasing number of extremist clerics ,mainly funded from Suadi,is the overthrow of our country.Now p1ssoff back to your brown rice and lentils
77

Lynne,

USA 13/01/2008 19:04:54
Media1..I am sure Osama bin Laden will be thrilled to know his "organization" Al Qaeda doesn't exist. I wonder what he calls 'His band of merry men"? What about Al Qaeda in Iraq?..they made the name to coincide with an "organization" that doesn't exist? The head of the "organization" was appointed by the "organization" in Afghanistan or Pakistan!! Are they all under delusions? You're the only one who knows the truth?
It is time you wise up.
The man himself, Osama bin Laden, has laid out his plans for the world to see. He has told us all in his videos what he plans to do. And if you can't believe him, then who do you believe?
78

Arkady,

England 13/01/2008 19:13:49
Pretty much all of the world's governments, intelligence services, human rights institutions, and academic institutions and al-Qaeda themselves know al-Qaeda exists. In fact, the only group of people outside of the Arab propaganda sphere who don't think al-Qaeda exists are Truthers. Truthers think everything is a conspiracy and explain otherwise realtively simple occurances away with paranoid, impossible 'theories', usually invloving timetravel and robots. 'OMG, my carkeys aren't in the place I'm fairly certain I left them!1! The CIA must've moved them!!1!'
Of course, nobody pays any attention to what Truthers think or say. And with good reason too.
79

Renate Baramy,

Israel 13/01/2008 19:19:48
I agree with 47 and 5l. I may sound pessimistic but I fear that in the future there will be fighting in England between muslims and the rest of England,the same as there is in Israel today as muslims don't seem able to assimilate to the country they live in due to their religious beliefs. As the british allowed imams from abroad to enter the country and spread their venom, withous controlling them they will eventually have to pay for their mistake. Unfortunately we only have to listen to vile hatred the imams spread in the mosque of Palestine and other countries, see what happened to the british teacher who asked the children for a name of their pets and agreed to Mohammed, and you have your answer. France knew how to handle if by forbidding head gear for pupils in school, thus banning all religious signs in public places for children, Religion has no place in government or any other place but places of worship,where people choose to go to pray and prayer alone.
80

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 19:26:04
92 was a teddy bear not a pet .......... that said the UK is at its most vurnerable for 100 years, the army is already invaded, they are recruiting from within, they are armed, they are in positions of power (i.e. soft targets) they only have to have a few spectaculars with the hint of one being a "dirty" bomb to cause mass panic. mass panic = equivalent of martial law, this country does not even comply with normal law so situation worse, militay and police stretched to the limit ........... then ........ well you guess is as good as mine
81

revsween,

13/01/2008 19:26:36
90Arkady:That would explain why I spend half my life looking for car keys,there was me blaming the wife when it was George Bushes'seceret agents all the time
82

revsween,

13/01/2008 19:28:26
91#there is very little oil to be found in British church yards
83

Jonboy,

13/01/2008 19:41:53
Wondering how many of our American friends who post on here believe that, as a result of GWB's so called "War on Terror", for which he is now claiming some kind of a victory - believe that, as a result of his actions, the US is less likely to suffer another terrorist attack along the lines of 9/11..?
84

msspurlock,

Missoula, MT 13/01/2008 19:46:10
Sure. Why not? They've already converted the Labour Party and all the Democrats in America, so why not you guys, too? Sounds like half of you are already brainwashed.
85

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 19:47:28
# 96 none do I am sure, the terrorists take their time, if you think 1500 insurgents already in the uk then the usa has way more, they have Islamic townships which are no-go areas in the usa and they have another insurgent army to worry about, 26 - 20 million hispanics, who when their anchor babies start to vote there will be a white/black on brown backlash that will make the white on black troubles seem tame.

86

arkletten,

13/01/2008 19:55:54
lielayer (68):

Qu'ran: 9:29-30
'Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the last day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given scripture - fight until they give jizyah (money tribute) willingly while they are humbled.

The Jews say: 'Ezra is the son of Allah'. And the Christians say 'The Messiah is the son of Allah'. That is their statement from their mouths: they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before them. May Allah destroy them. How are they deluded?'

Yeah, Islam is peace! (Peace of the grave, you dhimmi-wit).

87

Kaye2,

Arizona 13/01/2008 20:02:40
Sadly, many of you have your head in the sand. Along with America Alone you need to read The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright and While Europe Slept by Bruce Bawer.
Political correctness and multiculturalism will cause the death of the world as we know it. It won't happen in my lifetime, but those of you with children and grandchildren should be very concerned. I truly believe that most or all of Europe will become Islamic States unless the people wake up and reject the take over that is slowly but surely occurring.
Unless we want to be ruled by the Quran and sharia law, we had all better wake up and pull our heads out of the sand.
88

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 20:02:53
worth a peek ........

http://www.allthingsbeautiful.com/all_things_beautiful/2006/02/islamberg_in_ne.html

http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2007/05/springtime-in-islamberg.html

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/paul-williams051107.htm
89

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 20:05:04
In the uk any prizes for naming our Islambergs ......... go on try it!!
90

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 20:06:51
Islamberg is a branch of Muslims of the Americas Inc., a tax-exempt organization formed in 1980 by Pakistani cleric Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani, who refers to himself as "the sixth Sultan Ul Faqr," Gilani, has been directly linked by court documents to Jamaat ul-Fuqra or "community of the impoverished," an organization that seeks to "purify" Islam through violence. copied from Wake up America ........

Though primarily based in Lahore, Pakistan, Jamaat ul-Fuqra has operational headquarters in New York and openly recruits through various social service organizations in the U.S., including the prison system. Members live in hamaats or compounds, such as Islamberg, where they agree to abide by the laws of Jamaat ul-Fuqra, which are considered to be above local, state and federal authority. Additional hamaats have been established in Hyattsville, Maryland; Red House, Virginia; Falls Church, Virginia; Macon, Georgia; York, South Carolina; Dover, Tennessee; Buena Vista, Colorado; Talihina, Oklahoma; Tulane Country, California; Commerce, California; and Onalaska, Washington. Others are being built, including an expansive facility in Sherman, Pennsylvania.

Before becoming a citizen of Islamberg or any of the other Fuqra compounds, the recruits - - primarily inner city black men who became converts in prison - - are compelled to sign an oath that reads: "I shall always hear and obey, and whenever given the command, I shall readily fight for Allah's sake."

In the past, thousands of members of the U.S. branches of Jamaat ul-Fuqra traveled to Pakistan for paramilitary training, but encampments, such as Islamberg, are now capable of providing book-camp training so raw recruits are no longer required to travel abroad amidst the increased scrutiny of post 9/11.
91

jim benjamins,

DZ 13/01/2008 20:33:37
The main bases of Islam is peace and is a genuine law of Islam
92

jim benjamins,

DZ 13/01/2008 20:34:52
deepmoob@hotmail.fr
93

Pro-British American,

The Great Satan 13/01/2008 20:36:00
"No matter where you are in the world, mention America and people usually just sigh and shake their heads in pity! "

First of all let me say that I am proud of you people for making it through 73 comments before blaming the problems of the world on the USA.

Yes, you should pity the richest, strongest and most influential country in the world. Believe me it is an ongoing struggle just to find a reason to continue living under this oppressive regime [yawn]. BTW I have a hard time taking criticism on human rights from a guy from South Africa. You are in the process of electing an unapologetic rapist who says it is wrong to deny a woman sex when she wears a short skirt. Nice country!!

Regarding comment 96

FoxNews just picked up this story so you are presently being invaded by Americans. I for one hope that the Iraq invasion created new terrorists and I hope that they go to Iraq as well. While they are busy loading up by the truckload to go to assured slaughter our civilians have not even been hit with a rock on our own soil since 2001.

Yes, the plight of the Iraqi people is an awful one and I can only say that it gives me no joy to see suffering of the largely innocent population. However, I am a selfish father of 3 who cares much, much more about my fat little American children than I do about Muslims who are stuck in the 13th century.

Whenever Muslims around the world decide that it is in their best interest to destroy Al Qaeda, America will leave Muslims alone. If you can't do it yourselves we will help. if you won't do it yourselves, we will continue to invade your countries and repay you 100X over for every innocent American or British life you take. We are uninterested in destroying your religion or your way of life. Learn a way to live in harmony with the Jews and we will quite happily stop spending $200 billion per year on this war.

In the meantime there is a threat to the US and to Britain and don't wait until Big Ben comes toppling down a
94

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta... captured Mexican territory 1845 13/01/2008 20:46:47
Al-Qaeda's white army of terror

This yet another attempt by media to use sensationalism
to increase ratings and therefore more sponsors and therefore more revenue and profit.

Its over 300 years since Africans were brought to the USA as slaves.

Yet today their descendants call themselves African-Americans...NOT AMERICANS.

Their attitude continues to fuel the raging racism which exists in the US today.

Listen to Barak OBAMA refer to himself as African- America,....not American

Is he an AMERICAN or not ?. Do you hear Hillary Clinton refer to herself as European-American..no she is American and says so just as OBAMA refuses.

I doubt that any white English or Scots person would go about calling themselves Muslim English or Muslim - Scots were they to convert to Islam.

DON'T PANIC..dudes its not going to happen.

And why is it that all these non-white races leave their countries to live in countries populated by white people.
Why don't they stay home in their fanatical and ideological driven barbaric countries.

GC






95

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 20:49:34
big ben??
96

Ross Fyffe,

13/01/2008 21:01:52
# 106 you wrote, ......Yes, you should pity the richest, strongest and most influential country in the world. Believe me it is an ongoing struggle just to find a reason to continue living under this oppressive regime..........

remember I am a strong supporter of America, but richest ..... negative trade deficit with China? sub-prime mortage debacle, permitting p[laces such as Isamberg, your attrocious failure to secure your borders, it takes a legal tourist like me longer to cross the border than Juan Mexicano, your blatent vote rigging ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JESZiLpBLE ) and others. crime increase, 200,000 vets homeless on any given day, fasmilies of serving men and women dependant on charity, free speech being eroded day by day, (name me Guy Gibsons labarador) ......... I could go on but it seems a waste of time, you think you live in the greatest country in the world, personally I agree in part but prefer Scotland regardless of my many rants at its failings
97

Aeternum Vale,

Wellingborough 13/01/2008 21:02:29
The real British 'white' terrorists are those who drove this nation to war in Iraq, causing the death of more than 600,000 innocent citizens, on a pack of lies.

If MI5 were not simply a part of that canker they would instead be searching out and eradicating the true perpetrators of this atrocity.

Instead MI5 produce a report that is nothing more than manoeuvrings to help build the mandate for an ID database driven population surveillance system that will both manage the punitive high tax society soon to come and is designed to control the decent that will be expressed when the people wake-up and realise our nation has been dissolved and we have been duped into becoming no more than a series of autonomous provinces in a European super state. (And yet this new state’s Secret Services will continue to grow, gain more authority and exercise more power).
98

Pelon,

South of Buena Vista, but not far enough. 13/01/2008 21:09:43
As regards Jamaat ul-Fuqra, in Colorado, USA:
http://www.ago.state.co.us/pr/121001_link.cfm
99

MichScot,

USA 13/01/2008 21:15:45
#47

The biggest threat to the world--and to Christianity--is the devil. He will lose against the church, but he is behind all the hatred of and lies about Christianity. He is the root of all of this conflict, so quit blaming God. God gave us free will to make our own decisions because He does not want puppets worshiping Him. Because of our sin, the world is no longer perfect and we are to blame for all of our troubles. And as for religion, they have ALL been misused by the powerful. That isn't God's fault, wither.

Get a Bible and read it in context.
100

MichScot,

USA 13/01/2008 21:17:01
#50

Exactly so!
101

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 21:17:52
# 110 those of us with a brain know that our country, indeed GB as a whole does not exist as a nation any more, the eec then ec then eu made that clear to those of use who could read and comprehend. but instead of voting for people such as the uk independence party they rolled over for the terrible alternative.

now we in scotland are talking about independence, for the name of the wee man from what??? the eu GB its not going to happen in anything but name, we will still pay our taxes to the eu (indirectly) and our laws will be governed by the eu both directly and indirectly.

And for our American cousins who think it aint goona happen to them read about NAFTA ....(http://www.fas.usda.gov/itp/Policy/NAFTA/nafta.asp) many americans said no chance, never, over my dead body etc etc but its happening.

for example in the uk we said no trucks from the eu mailand to work in uk ........ it happened, they are all over the place, last year Mexican trucks and drivers given free access to US roads, even with their lower safety standards . ...........
102

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 21:23:28
http://www.fas.usda.gov/scriptsw/PressRelease/pressrel_dout.asp?Entry=valid&PrNum=0001-08

Americans ......... the above site is your governments own site, not a conspiracy theory or Ron Paul scare site, it is your governments policy.

Did you get to vote on it no ........ anyway I digress still got to get past the Islambergs of this world first
103

RAV,

Canada 13/01/2008 21:32:42
So, they alledgedly converted IN ORDER to "...bomb..." the UK? So, WHY do they want to bomb the UK? Couldn't they bomb the UK without conversion to Islam? Seems like you have a bigger problem than Islamis terrorists if non-muslims so ardently want to bomb you that they will convert to Islam. Are these anti-social citizens tired of just beating/stabbing/shooting fellow brits on a 1:1 basis & hope to gain access to Weapons of Mass Destruction for more wholesale slaughter by converting to Islam?
104

Pro-British American,

The Great Satan 13/01/2008 21:40:42
"remember I am a strong supporter of America, but richest ..... negative trade deficit with China? sub-prime mortage debacle"

Man everybody has a trade deficit with China.

No one said it would be easy my brother and no one said life's perfect, but at the end of the day we still are the richest and strongest country in the world by a huge margin. The problems we're facing now are pretty minor compared to what we faced when Carter was in office.

As for America, things are changing, but we are still in charge. British-Americans are 95% of our presidents. We also control the military, the corporations, the media, long-term political positions and the CIA. It doesn't matter how many Mexicans come streaming across the border because they know that we're in charge and always will be.

As for Britain, I feel for our beloved British brothers and sisters and I hope real men such as yourself stand up and fight!!! Scream so loudly that the BBC can't drown you out!! Britain belongs to the Picts, Jutes, Angles, Saxons, Roman Britons (Welsh) and Normans. These are the people that made Britain great. Everyone else that has come since these tribes came is there to work for you and has no right to convert you to their alien philosophy of hate.
105

Sambo,

The deep south 13/01/2008 21:40:44
#73 Media 1,
I wonder how many more years it will take before the Africans completely take over, then you can spout your anti- American rubbish 12 months of the year from Edinburgh!
106

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 21:45:29
116 they want to bomb uk so they can be martyrs ........ they are simpltons who think they will get a barrowload of endless nooky for commiting murder on a mass scale, infamy is what they seek ........
107

MichScot,

USA 13/01/2008 21:52:08
#115

Thank you! No one believes me when I mention this.
108

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 21:57:54
# 115 glad to be of help So many americans think they live in the land of the free it is frightening, see 117 for instance,
109

Sambo,

The deep south 13/01/2008 22:04:08
To all you US bashers out there, you need to look at your own doorstep.
The reason the Bank of England decided not to drop the interest rate last week is because it knows full well inflation is far from under control.
On a visit last summer I found prices to be double than that of the US on everything.
I'm a transplanted Scot and I am so glad I got to H**l out of the UK when I did.
The attacks at Glasgow Airport last summer should be a big wake up call for you all.
110

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 22:16:06
#122 mmmmm the attacks on Glasgow airport they were prevented from happening, lets see now the bombers that hit twin towers, they were successful, ......... and into the bargain some of them were issued green cards postumously, left hand not knowing what the right is doing, again OI am a great supporter of the usa but far to many live in a dream world, re costs half in usa, in the uk they are realistic, your petrol (gas) is rising just as ours did up 20 down 5 and so on .... last time gas was 3$ in usa there were near riots this time nothing ........... credit card debt in usa is huge, social security backrupt, the country is ripe for another attack .......
111

Pro-British American,

The Great Satan 13/01/2008 22:17:02
"# 115 glad to be of help So many americans think they live in the land of the free it is frightening, see 117 for instance, "

What's not free about it?? Why are you so afraid of NAFTA?? It just means we're allowed to trade with our neighbors with minimal government interference. It's been around since I was in high school and hasn't unravelled the fabric of society. It's just a trade agreement. You must be really upset about the EU if you're worried about NAFTA.
112

Pro-British American,

The Great Satan 13/01/2008 22:21:36
Ross,

They were prevented due to the incompetence of the terrorists. It's clear to me that Al Qaeda is down to their "B" team because I found those attacks to be quite poorly planned.
113

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 22:30:49
yes they were poorly planned, but not down to al qaeda, if they were they would have used a better incendiary abd better prepared, though if they had managed to squeeze the 4x4 into the main hall the outcome would have been very different, so a bit of bad driving was the difference beteen "success" and failure.
114

Sambo,

The deep south 13/01/2008 22:32:04
#123 Ross fyffe
The bombers at Glasgow were thwarted only because their inciderary devices failed to ignite.
As for the cost of living UK V's US there is no comparison, groceries, clothes,ect and as for petrol, $3 a gallon is a hell of a lot cheaper than $4 a litre.
115

Sambo,

The deep south 13/01/2008 22:37:41
Actually the bombers at Glasgow airport were seen a week prior taking photographs, the worker that saw this called authorities on the vehicle they were in, the same vehicle that they attempted to ram the terminal in, but no action was taken. A case of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.
116

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 22:40:08
124 maybe you should read up about the EU as is now and the EEC as it was in the begining.

In the befgining the EEC European Econimic Community was a trading partnership between like minded European countries.

Years later it is now basically a country, it has its own law making parliament, EU laws take precedence over Country laws, the leaders are NON ELECTED let me say that agin they are not elected, ie they are appointed and once in you canna shift them.

Yes NAFTA started in 1994 the EEC many years before, but more foll you if you are not affraid of it.

there are open borders in the eu and Scotland along with the uk is the dumping ground for econimic migrants......... I know I know that is how America was made, but here they are a burden on our health service, their criminals fill outr jails,

in 10 years any mexican that wants to work in the us will just walk across the line between the two two NAFTA states and work where they want.

if thats what you want fine ........ if not bettere work on stopping it now ........ but wait!! nobody in the USA got to vote on setting up NAFTA ........ so I guess its to late
117

Pro-British American,

Houston, TX (epicenter of Republican evil) 13/01/2008 22:42:34
well let's take a look in Houston, TX.


2000 sq ft. (185.81 square meters) new single family house in middle class neighborhood = $150,000
Regular unleaded gas = $2.71 per gallon (3.79 liters)
12 eggs = $0.79

In the UK you almost have to double these numbers. It basically just takes away the value of your currency.
118

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 23:03:07
My home in Scotland valued at 120K, in a small town built 1868 and still strong, wind and water tight. .........

petrol near on 5 quid a gallon, most goes to tax,

eggs, almost free, got my own chooks :-)

if I need a hip transplant, long wait but free,

my vote is on paper counted by public officials and supervised closely by the candidates and their helpers.

in usa voting is done by a private company, private individuals count the vote and whatever the machine is told to produsce it does.



119

Ross Fyffe,

Pro American - Scottish !! 13/01/2008 23:12:31
and since this is almost anonymous, my mortgage is 3/5ths paid, never missed a payment, my credit card balance on each statement day is never above 10% of the credit limit and mostly paid off in full. I have a full private pension, if i losyt my job tomorrow, I have savings (independant of major investemnts) that would cover me, my family and bills for six months.

My car is paid for my partners is on a low interest and almost paid.

but Pro British this is not a P****** contest, each country has its good and bad, what we need to agrre on is that we both fight against the fundamendalists and the "behind the scenes" government...... egreed???
120

Sambo,

The deep south 13/01/2008 23:14:12
Ross,
I wouldn't trade places with your life in Scotland with mine in the US. My state pension is double yours and it's buying power is twice that of the UK's.
I come over every year, because I own a home in Ayrshire and I see first hand the expense you have in Scotland.
121

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 23:24:53
With respect I said private pension, the state pension is (as it is in the USA) bankrupt.

Any state pension I receive, will be sweetie money.

As long as you are buying and not on the never never I accept your choice, but if you lost your job tomorrow for six months would you be ok or dipping into your 401K, cutting back, returning your 4x4 again no critisism of you (except your nickname which I personally find offensive) implied
122

Sambo,

The deep south 13/01/2008 23:32:01
Ross,I have 5 pensions, my state pension is tied to inflation, not to the whim of the chancellor of the exchequer every year, by the way my middle name is Sam, my friends call me Sambo.
123

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 13/01/2008 23:35:43
Thank you Sam for answering part of my questions,
124

Sambo,

The deep south 13/01/2008 23:40:21
This discussion has drifted unfortunately from terrorists to bashing each other about wealth. Sorry,
my main point is for Scotland to not let it's guard down and let us be mindful of Muslim extremists among our midst.
125

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 13/01/2008 23:52:45
This sounds to me like a hell of a lot of scaremongering garbage designed to convince us that our civil liberties should be curtailed to help the 'war on terror'.

I have no interest in maintaining an Empire in the arab world or oppressing the arabs with dictatorships though it appears that the United States and British governments do. As long as this situation continues some Arabs will attempt to fight back and the problem won't end until there is a lasting political solution in the middle East.

I don't believe there is any evidence of an army of white muslims working for Al Qaada but I do believe the British Government is annoying many muslims by holding them without trial and arresting and harassing them daily.

If any innocent man was held for twenty eight days and possibly tortured during this time then they might well tell the Government whatever they want to hear and they might also if released become eventually exactly what they were wrongly accused of!

Britain is storing up problems for the future and it is not acting in my name or the name of the people of Scotland whose Government if independent would I think act very differently.
126

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 14/01/2008 00:01:01
Actually Sam they are intertwinned and are to used as tools by the terrorist.

Those of us who are "wealthy" (used advisedly) are easy targets for the lower "Sub class" of those who do not look out for themselves, who have no savings, no job, and no prospects and join up to a promise of the barrowload of Vurgins.

When there is a big hit in UK or USA these scum and low life will be in your house and away with your goods, wife and daughter. I know you will have a gun but it takes guts to pull the trigger, and again and again and you have a house to defend, they don't care, they will burn you out if you kill some of them.

They will be organised, we will be targets.

These terrorists leaders play the money markets, so finance is very much an issue.

In real terms it is I who is the idiot, all that money I paid on time I could have had holidays with it. spent it on a down payment for a huge plasma screen etc etc
127

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta... captured Mexican territory 1845 14/01/2008 00:26:06
137
Sambo,
The deep south 13/01/2008 23:40:21
This discussion has drifted unfortunately from terrorists to bashing each other about wealth. Sorry,
my main point is for Scotland to not let it's guard down and let us be mindful of Muslim extremists among our midst.
---------------------------------------------------

Sambo ,
If u were a loyal Scot U would be living in Scotland, not in my country the USA.

If all Scots did what u did who would inhabit Scotland.

The word hypocrite comes to mind when u and others like u,talk about your concern for Scotland.

GC
128

Bob Brundige,

Springfield, KY USA 14/01/2008 01:13:14
After all, they are converting thugs. It only strengthens my faith for the righteous and peaceful idealisms of Christianity. No one goes forward with bloodletting and violent mayhem.
129

TORRRR,

USA 14/01/2008 04:12:12
For all you nay sayers, try reading these books and get caught up on the real world as it exists for the Islamic FundamentalistsI
1. American Jihad
2. 1000 Years For Revenge
3. Because They Hate
4. Jihad Incorporated

forstarters! Americas faces the same fate unless we get wise to the Islamic agenda!
130

MichScot,

USA 14/01/2008 04:41:02
And try these books written by the ladies:

The Caged Virgin by Aayan Hirsi Ali
In the Name of Honor by Mukhtar Mai
Price of Honor by Jan Goodwin

Because They Hate (above) is also good.
131

Yane,

Melbourne 14/01/2008 04:51:20
#140 How come you're always banging on about where people live GC? It's very conservative. How come you are on a Scottish newspaper thread? Just asking.
132

Trade-wind,

USA 14/01/2008 05:53:32
First to the artical...If they are recruiting converts in prison then why the h-ll don't they segregate them
and not house them together. End of problem, no body to convert!!!
Now to #18 and #73 and #74. Boys and girls. I say that because you don't sound like adults to me. More like prattling children. I AM A SCOT!!! I AM ALSO AN AMERICAN. I get D..ned tired of hearing you people spout off about America being the cause of all this.
Muslims (radical ones) have been hating us "you am me" for centuries. Americans didn't start this, The crusaders did. Who were they????? Bush just happened to be the unfortunate president in office when 9/11 took place. How would you react if the same thing happened in Scotland and there was not drastic measures taken.
Yea I know Iraq had nothing to do with it. Bulls..t.
They may not have been the ones that sent the 9/11 boys here, but they were paying $25,000 to the families of every suicide bomber no matter who they hit. Thats good enough for me. They were supporting it by guaranteeing
to the individuals who were crazy enough to blow themselves up, that their families would recieve the money, and be taken care of, and honered because their sons or daughters were stupid enough to sacrifice themselves for Islam. No America didn't start this it was happening around the world long before the US invaded Iraq. You self righteous bunch of children better grow up. You also better believe that WE Americans are your allies. You may find them in short supply. You have over the many years (you/US/Scots) have been along side "as" British troops in their colonies killing people who have long memories and love to hate like you love to drink. They not us Americans will be your killers. So get of your high horse, you are no better than us Americans. Many Scots are also Americans and those who were bore here still have relation in Scotland. I love both my countries and would fight and die for either as Scots have been doing for Grand old England f
133

Trade-wind,

USA 14/01/2008 06:00:53
The rest of it was just as scathing, but since it didn't appear ( to long ) I won't bother to write
it again. You make me sick.
Scotland today, Scotland tomorrow, Scotland forever!
134

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 14/01/2008 06:24:32
Hello All,

The bottom line for all the conspiracy nuts and the theoreticians, is that there really is no Jihadist threat. 9-11 was an inside job (despite major universities, scientists, and engineers, providing verifiable evidence and studies to the contrary) despite Al Qaeda claiming the credit for it and the video confirming boarding by the terrorists. What did the 19 terrorists do, disapparate mid-flight?

The theorists and political fanatics simply won't allow reality to creep into their minds; far easier to believe in conspiracies and deny the voluminous evidence from Al Qaeda, that they shall continue to murder (en masse preferably) all non-Muslims wherever and whenever possible.

It is not possible to debate such fanatics; all we can do is to use our votes to make sure that we elect ONLY politicians who understand the threat to us and our families. We must present all the evidence to the public and in public, so that we make sure that those who've not considered the immediacy of the Jihadist threat, realize how very much we are all in danger.

Lastly, the most potent non-Al Qaeda enemy we have in this debate is the Politically Correct Crowd: they are the most ignorant of the bunch. The reporter of this article is just such a prime example: believing that "Muslim" is a race, rather than an adherent of an religion.

Ignorance may well have been bliss pre-9-11, pre-7-7, but no longer.

Cheers from the Rockies
135

circa53,

Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, U.S.A. 14/01/2008 06:44:39
Would everyone just STOP trying to please the PC morons. What happened to the WWII Rulebook?? Let's all just dig it back out and start treating this criminals the way they should be treated. They want to meet Allah, let's all just help them along.....
136

circa53,

Bloomfield Hills, Mich. USA 14/01/2008 07:04:45
OK gang.....Im going to settle this once and for all....Make me Your King and Ill slam the door on them, they simply have NO Business in our countrys....
137

Hickory,

US 14/01/2008 15:08:32
You fellows got a burned front door at the airport with no citizens harmed. We got the towers toppled and over three thousand souls destroyed. What would you propose to do if you were hit as hard as we were?
138

Lock,

14/01/2008 16:35:28
#150,

Bomb the crap out of some mountains, invade a country who at no point had anything to do with us being 'hit hard', and release 'new' videos of the boogeyman every few months to keep the population on their toes. Continue with policies that will breed more and more terrorists for us to deal with in the future too.
139

Grouse,

Thunder Bay 14/01/2008 16:42:20
I'm more concerned about the number of muslems disguised as grey squirrels
140

Non Compos Mentis,

USA 14/01/2008 17:31:30
It cuts both ways. Security organizations are undoubtedly inserting moles into Al-Qaeda. If you are a member of Al-Qaeda, look over your shoulder. The guy (or gal) next to you may be an MI5 or a CIA agent.
141

Hickory,

US 14/01/2008 17:47:59
#151 As things are going, we will one day see how you react. I was once the victim of bad treatment by these guys. From first hand experience, I can tell you that we all are in for a tough time. Political theory will go out the window when you see a loved one killed or when you are spread eagled over a table and abused by them. Then, the truth will slap you up aside the head like a boxing glove. Keep this comment in mind.
142

Vic_Hern,

USA 14/01/2008 18:27:59
The 2 truths that matter most in these discusiions....

1)Moderate Muslim is just another oxymoron.

2)Lying to preserve/save Islam or any Muslim
is not just OK, it is virtue.
143

KafirCrusader,

CA USA 14/01/2008 18:30:48
Communism killed over 100 million people in one century, and you nuts claim that religion is the scourge of the earth! As far as you 9/11 conspiracy nuts go, you need to get a life. I am amazed at those who claim that their freedoms are being abridged, and then clammor for more government services. Don't you understand that more government means less freedom? Pay for your own damn healthcare, and get off the govt. tit!
144

KafirCrusader,

CA USA 14/01/2008 18:34:56
Vic, #155, You are absolutely CORRECT! Every freedom loving person should inform themselves of Taquiya and Kitman.

Moderate Muslim? Mo demanded that his followers fight until the whole world is subdued under Islam. What exactly is 'moderate' about that? Why would anyone follow a man who had sex with a 9 year old girl?
145

kill bin ladin,

new york 14/01/2008 19:58:00
Hey brits! Aren't you scared? By medling in the balkans and helping the bosnian muslims and albanian muslim hordes you thought the allah's cowardly killers will leave you cowards alone. Guess what, they want since they can't stand you british scum more than any one else in the world. You are week, corupt and cowardly evil nation.
You back stabed my people in bosnia in croatia and now in kosovo. Fish you all that you have comming to you by your muslim friends. They own your inner cities, your corupt politicians and use your liberal laws against you. No fight left in you cowards. You can only attack and sell out countries like Serbia, normaly not by your self but with other 19 cowardly countries like you.
No guts. Rome fell. You will to for same reasons as Rome. Get ready to convert to islam you scum of the world. They are amongst you. They will slaughter you as pigs that you are. Keep selling other peoples land but you will get yours at the end by the grace of god.
Normaly the moderator is going to take my comment down, since there is really no freedom of speach or any other freedom in the cowardly west. Not any more.They cant let you bleeding hart liberals get upset. Thank your liberal scum politicians. Read Animal Farm or if you have any brain left Death of the West or Day of Reckoning by Patrick J. Buchannan you might learn a thing or two about what got you in this possition in the first place. I am wasting my time,talking to you want help. Look your self in the eyes in the mirror so you can see a cowards face up close. May you experience the same horrors as we did.
146

Hickory,

US 14/01/2008 20:09:35
#158 My, you are a vicious one. I'll bet you have never met a Muslim never mind been smacked around
real good by one.... or several.
147

Graham Simpson,

Vancouver 14/01/2008 23:27:08
It's about time we stopped believing and supporting this constant, hysterical propaganda to keep the 'war on terrorism' alive and well. Yes, there has been attacks by fanatical muslims on both persons and infrastructure in both muslim and western countries and yes, the twin towers were a terrible tragedy for the US but somehow we have to stop this inexorable drift towards the whole world becoming an armed camp. Civil liberties are being chipped away. Boarding a plane for a happy holiday has now become a fatiguing experience. Politicians are poised to legislate 'internal passports'... once the badge only of dictatorships. National security is the new buzzword for government spying on the very people who voted them in. Military expenditure is soaring to new heights with health, education and other vital needs of the citizenry taking second place. Government leaders are openly lying or distorting the truth to keep up the momentum of their insane policies

Let's look at the big picture. Some governments...not their citizenry! and in particularly the US and the British are committed to armed, military intervention in those muslim countries, that they consider are either hostile to, or have hostile elements opposed to... their interests. The alleged public reason for these interventions is that they are 'bringing democracy' to these countries. Any fool who spent five minutes in a muslim ruled society would know that this an absolute waste of time. The very concept of Islam is anti-democratic and will forever be. Now there is talk of intervening in Iran and Pakistan and the latter has nuclear missile capability.

So, we had better get the hell out of these countries while we still can. If their peoples truly want democracy and freedom from religious oppression, such as we have obtained over the years... then let them fight for it themselves!

Fortunately in Scotland we have a shortcut out of this mess... It's called Independenc
148

Ron D,

Edinburgh 15/01/2008 10:23:59
This entirely ignores recruitment at universities, where the Arab/Palestinian propaganda machine is particularly strong, effective, and unchallenged - it might even be part of the curriculum. It wouldn't surprise me if a couple of students I know, having been thoroughly brainwashed by the lies, carry out suicide bombings just to "prove terrorism has nothing to do with Muslims".
149

ddmc,

15/01/2008 11:03:01
#158 pat Buchanan, dont make me laugh, end of days yeah right, christian fundamentalist nutjob !

#147 yeah 3 buildings collapse in there own footprints at near free fall speed, Oh & wasn't it so convienient that the highjackers passports were found intact in the rubble.
How much money did the US taxpayers spend to build the largest military ever seen & it couldn't protect you from 19 guys with stanley knife's. Just where was the US air force that day ? , You got ripped off !

Your own govt admitted it had plans in the 60's to blow up a US plane, blame it on Castro & invade, i think they called it operation northwood, so it's not like you dont have a track record. Oh & then PNAC who called for a pearl harbour type event to change the political landscape, well 9/11 sorted that for them.
Far too many co-incidences
150

kill bin ladin,

15/01/2008 11:31:37
# 159 Hickory u must be a muslim. I lived with your kind for 20 years of my life until your holy warriors came to my town to cut my throat. Guess what I am still around. Yeah I got beat up by the muslims but never one on one, since your kind only attacks like a pack of dogs. Maybe you would like to try to beat me up? Coward bitch.
Come to New York any time. Corner of Onderdonk ave and Himrod street and ask for Alex. Everyone knows who I am in the hood. Any time. Yeah I am viscious, when you see your friends mutilated bodies after your religion of piece solgers were done with them, it changes you. As I said any time come and smack me around if you think you can. To bad war stoped. Did not get a chance to shoot more allahs warriors.
#162 ddmc Yeah I am christian fundamentalist and proud of it. You got a problem with christians?
You must be self hating white fagot liberal.
Since u love muslims so much go to middle east and convert or volunteer to get blown up or something.
151

Audrey,

15/01/2008 12:31:39
kill bin ladin

I picked this link up from another poster. It should be of great interest to you. Have a wonderful day.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/3.htm
152

Hickory,

US 15/01/2008 14:31:16
#163 I am a christian that has experienced discrimination and pain direcly by muslims. My attitude is not from opinion but from experience. They want to kill us christians. The solution is not to be had by knee jerk reactions by violent kids. The solution is to be had by all of us standing up to the real terror of fear. Your challenge is interesting in that you refer to the "hood". When they jump you out of the "hood" as they did me, you will know real fear.
153

kill bin ladin,

15/01/2008 16:58:47
#165 Hickory. As you see I was jumped from my hood by the muslims with NATO help ofcourse. I do not want to fight my christian brothers. You must know how it feels when they destroy all that was in your family for generations. I will never forget or forgive muslims or NATO member states for that injustice.
154

kill bin ladin,

15/01/2008 17:03:05
Audrey, thank you for the pics. I have seen this first hand. To bad that liberals, feminists and gay mafia are so blind not to see what is in store for them in the future. Apeasement leads to this.
155

,

15/01/2008 17:28:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
156

jasbro,

Canada 15/01/2008 17:54:17
What a load of fear mongering drivel. So let me get this straight - Every white person who converts to Islam instantly becomes a terrorist bomber. Guess what, most of them are women who marry Muslims, and probably most of the rest of them are 'looking for the answer to life' and will return to being non or semi religious after they realize what Islam demands of them. So don't worry about this.
IF you want to worry just sit back and look at the birth rate of UK Muslims compared to 'white' residents, then add in the immigration rate from Muslim Countries. Sharia law is just around the corner.
157

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 15/01/2008 21:48:09
Hey "Kill Bin Laden"...Newsflash....according to Benazir Bhutto,Bin Laden is already dead........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIO8B6fpFSQ

158

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 15/01/2008 23:31:08
Hello DDMC,

Re you 162:

I can see that you've NEVER bothered to go and read the Purdue University Report or the Popular Mechanics Engineers' Study, have you?

No, what you do is frequent the Conspiracy websites, the Rad Left websites, and feed yourself with whacked out and unsubstantiated drivel, instead of availing yourself of actual science.

Truly pitiful, invoking fantasy instead of relying upon science, physics, logic, and physical evdidence.

Keep up the lunacy, I'm sure you'll find yet more lies in which to believe.

Cheers from the Rockies
159

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 15/01/2008 23:38:25
Hello All,

The most shocking thing about all the conspiracy believers, the anti-US dogmatists, the Rad Lefters, the Social Progressives, and the dyed in the wool Socialists, is that NONE of them have bothered to buy copies of the Noble Quran and learn for themselves, why one simply cannot trust Islam and its adherents.

The Taquiyya is one aspect about which any rational person interested in this debate, must learn: it gives any good and faithful Muslim the right to lie to any non-Muslim, with accruing sin to his/her soul.

It might sound pedantic to some, but this is a key aspect of why anything that a good and faithful Muslims says must be scrutinized within the context of Taquiyya.

One must compare the actions of Muslims with their words, and those two must be compared to what is written in the Noble Quran.

Until those of you on the opposite side pull your heads out on such issues, and learn to rely upon FACTS, rather than mere subjectively emotive foundations, our countries, societies, cities, towns, families, and friends, will be at greater danger.

Cheers from the Rockies
160

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 01:15:51
#171 Neanderthal75

What has "Popular Mechanics" got to say about this.....

“U.S. military sources have given the FBI information that suggests five of the alleged hijackers of the planes used in Tuesday’s terror attacks received training at secure U.S. military installations in the 1990s.”
(Newsweek Sept 15th 2001)

“As the investigation gathered strength Saturday, unusual leads began to surface, among them the possibility that some of the hijackers may have received training at Pensacola Naval Air Station in Florida or other U.S. military facilities.

Two of 19 suspects named by the FBI, Saeed Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi, have the same names as men listed at a housing facility for foreign military trainees at Pensacola. Two others, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alnami, have names similar to individuals listed in public records as using the same address inside the base.

In addition, a man named Saeed Alghamdi graduated from the Defense Language Institute at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas, while men with the same names as two other hijackers, Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari, appear as graduates of the U.S. International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala., and the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, respectively. ”
(Washington Post Sept 16th 2001)

161

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 01:20:43
....Or this?.....

“During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!?"
(Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta testimony to the 911 Commission)
162

ihate911conspiracybelieversbecausethey'reretards,

texas 16/01/2008 01:23:28
Well golly, mk-ultra #170, if Benazir Bhutto said it then it must be true, after all, she knew everything!
163

ihate911conspiracybelieversbecausethey'reretards,

texas 16/01/2008 01:33:38
this thread really started off ridiculous with all the 14 year old substance abusers writing about nonsense, but then it became pretty good half way through with comments from,Hickory, Killbinladen, ross fyffe, sambo, and others. I thought the story was lame but enjoyed the thread. Gallacticcannibal is probably about 17yrs old but definitely on drugs....probably hydro i would guess.
164

ihate911conspiracybelieversbecausethey'reretards,

texas 16/01/2008 01:38:20

Gee, mk-ultra, we need to contact that young man you mentioned in comment #174, he probably knows who killed the Kennedys. Great work , Man, keep it up and I know your going to crack the case wide open!
165

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 02:19:09
#177

Probably what we need to do is to go to Google Video and watch "911 Press For Truth", "Terrorstorm;Final Cut" and "Endgame"
166

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 04:11:07
#171

Even NIST (The National Institute for Standards and Technology) now admit that they can't explain the total collapse of the Twin Towers.
In a recent letter to victims family representatives Bill Doyle and Bob McIlvaine (Sept 27 2007),NIST state that;

"We are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse."

But "Popular Mechanics" have it all worked out,right?
167

john abegail,

london 16/01/2008 06:53:30
Heres a more believeable story carried by The Hindustan Times and worth a dime or two or shall i say hae penny |:)

What is it about Pakistani men that glamorous women from the West
find so irresistible? The latest rumour of pop singer Britney Spears
possibly converting to Islam and moving to Pakistan with her
companion Adnan Ghalib has set off a debate among women in the
country.

The grapevine is abuzz with twice-divorced singer Spear's romance
with little known Ghalib, a man of Pakistani origin. Spears,
according to Britain's Sun newspaper, wanted to fake her death and
embrace Islam and move to Pakistan and start a new life!

Ghalib, 35, who works for a photo agency, is being described as "a
gold digger" whom the "lonely" and "vulnerable" Spears cannot do
without.

According to media reports, Ghalib's respectable Sunni Muslim family
in Birmingham is so horrified by his antics that they have disowned
him.

"His parents Ghalib and Saghra are devastated. This week his dad gave
him an ultimatum, 'Give up Britney, or you are dead to me,' which
Adnan ignored," a friend of Ghalib was quoted as saying.

But much before Spears, there was Jemima Khan, the glamorous daughter
of a millionaire who married the much older cricketer Imran Khan
against her family's wishes and moved to Pakistan. Their marriage did
not last and she was back in London with her two sons in less than a
decade.

The romance of Diana, the Princess of Wales, who reportedly found
her "Mr Wonderful" in a Pakistani cardiologist in London, is another
case in point.

Hasnat Khan decided not to marry his love because of the great
cultural divide. Unfortunately, his marriage to a woman of Afghan
royalty did not last reportedly because of his Diana connection.

Sehr Naqvi, a homemaker, said: "I think Pakistani men are more
committed and, of course, the Pathan genes hold them in good stead.
Britney Spears is hardly a good example - well, she could f
168

john abegail,

london 16/01/2008 07:05:41
to those who like to believe in bogey monsters living in your basements or kock and bull stories about turbaned people in flying carpets attacking the twin towers watch this
Ripple Effect - Full Length Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9127706080717077488&hl=en-CA
169

ihate911conspiracybelieversbecausethey'reretards,

texas 16/01/2008 07:10:44
Well, that proves it all right. If NIST can't explain it then it MUST have been Bush. Mk-Ultra, have you ever thought about being a detective? A lot of cold cases out there and I'm willing to bet that Bigfoot is responsible for at least a few.
170

Fairfax,

16/01/2008 11:31:38
mk-ultra (179): "Even NIST (The National Institute for Standards and Technology) now admit that they can't explain the total collapse of the Twin Towers."

Their point is that their current explanation is not certain, not that it's a complete mystery, for the simple reason that expirical testing would be expensive. Perhaps conspiracy theorists desperate to learn more should fund unmanned jet planes, fully laden with fuel, to crash into skyscrapers whose construction is similar to that of the WTC. . .
171

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 14:59:05
#184

Their point is that they do not have an explanation at all.They are unable to explain how aircraft and jet fuel caused the complete collapse of the World Trade Centre buildings.End of story.

""We are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse."
(NIST,27 Sept 2007)

Several of the 911 hijackers trained at US military bases.(see #173)
How does this fact fit in with the official story of 911?
The "War on Terror" is a fraud.
172

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 15:22:14
Also,in connection with the attacks of 7/7,it is widely believed within the US Justice Department that the so-called "mastermind" of the bombings,Haroon Rashid Aswat,was working for British intelligence.
Google "Loftus Aswat".
173

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 15:37:05
Alternatively,watch this documentary.....

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8136133221213939183&q=terrorstorm+final+cut&total=41&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
174

Fairfax,

16/01/2008 16:02:51
mk-ultra(186): "Their point is that they do not have an explanation at all.They are unable to explain how aircraft and jet fuel caused the complete collapse of the World Trade Centre buildings.End of story."

That is quite untrue. As their honest quote states, they do not yet have a full explanation of the highly complex physical and chemical process of the towers' destruction. It is important to understand that lack of complete comprehension does not imply that comprehension is entirely lacking. It is however, very much NOT the end of the story: much is known from simulations and physical considerations, as you can read from their current site: http://wtc.nist.gov/



175

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 16:33:37
#189

In other words,they do not have an explanation for the total collapse.

Even if the combination of aircraft and jet fuel caused the total collapse of WTC 1&2,the bottom line is that the hijackers were trained at US Military bases.
Please explain how this fits into the official story......


176

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 16:36:13
“U.S. military sources have given the FBI information that suggests five of the alleged hijackers of the planes used in Tuesday’s terror attacks received training at secure U.S. military installations in the 1990s.”
(Newsweek Sept 15th 2001)

“As the investigation gathered strength Saturday, unusual leads began to surface, among them the possibility that some of the hijackers may have received training at Pensacola Naval Air Station in Florida or other U.S. military facilities.

Two of 19 suspects named by the FBI, Saeed Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi, have the same names as men listed at a housing facility for foreign military trainees at Pensacola. Two others, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alnami, have names similar to individuals listed in public records as using the same address inside the base.

In addition, a man named Saeed Alghamdi graduated from the Defense Language Institute at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas, while men with the same names as two other hijackers, Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari, appear as graduates of the U.S. International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala., and the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, respectively. ”
(Washington Post Sept 16th 2001)
177

Fairfax,

16/01/2008 16:54:14
mk-ultra (190): "In other words,they do not have an explanation for the total collapse."

Hmm . . . Thus you wish to summarize the statement "NIST provides a fairly full, but incomplete, description of the collapse, due to the cost of flying fuel laden jets into tall buildings" by "NIST has no explanation". Applying your logic to your own partial explanations, would you be willing to summarize your own posts by "mk-ultra has no explanation"?
178

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 17:39:32
#192

How does the fact that several of the 9/11 hijackers trained at US military bases fit in with the official story?
Please answer this question........
179

Fairfax,

16/01/2008 18:06:08
mk-ultra (193): "How does the fact that several of the 9/11 hijackers trained at US military bases fit in with the official story?"

I don't know. More to the point, I don't know whether your premise is true, but I suspect you're going to tell me . . .
180

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 19:46:19
#192

Is it true?
"Military sources...","FBI....","Newsweek","The Washington Post"

Not exactly wacky "conspiracy" websites are they?
Has any of it been retracted? No.
Do the names match those on the FBI website? Yes.

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/092701hjpic.htm

The story was widely reported in the mainstream media at the time but very quickly sunk without trace.(Well,almost...)
This is what Lt.Col Steve Butler,the vice chancellor for student affairs at the Defense Language Institute said about 9/11;

"Of course President Bush knew about the impending attacks on America. He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism."

You decide.
181

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 21:02:32
The above reply should have been addressed to #194(obviously)
182

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 19/01/2008 04:07:42
Hello MK,

I note with no little humour and irony, that all you can do is to bring up 'data' from 7 YEARS ago, fully IGNORING the data from both PURDUE UNIVERSITY and the Aeronautical Engineers, Structural Engineers, Physicists, and Chemical Engineers, of Popular Mechanics, which is only 1 year old, while tap dancing as far away from the actual science of the crashes as you possibly can.

How very Rad Left of you.

Keep up the tap dancing MK; I'm sure you're a past master at avoiding both the real world and empirical evidence.


Cheers from the Rockies
183

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 19/01/2008 04:19:41
Hello Dragon Head,


Two points of reality and fact:

1. Google the Purdue University Study ('Purdue 9-11') and then read the study for the SCIENCE of the crashes and the SCIENTIFIC ANSWERS. Then move to Popular Mechanics (http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/911myths/) for further SCIENTIFIC evidence, rather than the UNSUBSTANTIATED drivel from the Conspiracists.

2. Pertaining to the blatantly ignorant misnomer of both the writer of the article and the Scotsman's continuing support of such a misnomer, please refer to Social Progressives, Liberals, and Socialist, nearly all of whom support Political Correctness; which is the foundational idiocy which has fomented the misonmer.

Muslims are NOT, I repeat NOT a race, they are adherents of a RELIGION, towit, Islam.

There are brown Muslims, there are black Muslims, there are Asian Muslims, there are white Muslims, there are mixed race Muslims, there are race 'x' Muslims all over the planet.

Race and Religion are TWO SEPARATE and EXCLUSIVE concepts, as well as real world FACTS.

The sheer idiocy of the writer of the article begs the question as to whether or not the Scottish Public School System is actually working or not, as the level of gross ignorance displayed by the writer of the article, the editor of the article and the Editor-in-Chief, all of whom let such blatantly false and idiotic tripe get printed, makes one wonder.

I must sadly admit, that the same ignorance, stupidity, and sheer idiocy, are alive and well here in the USA: 'journalists' (read professional idiot) of the PC persuasion make the same mistake time and time again; they are so addicted to Political Correctness and a Social Progressive World View, that Geo-Political realities and Realpolitik, are concepts with which they are wholly unfamiliar.

Unfortunately for us all, we innocent folks in the know, and our families, shall end up paying the price for THEIR IDIOCY.

Cheers from the Rockies
184

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 19/01/2008 20:07:25
#197

If the hijackers received training at US military bases,then surely it is irrelevant what Purdue University or Popular Mechanics or anyone else says about the physical evidence.
As for "Rad Left",let's look at the comments of another 9/11 skeptic,the former President of Italy,Francesco Cossiga......

"Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga, who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio, has told Italy’s oldest and most widely read newspaper that the 9-11 terrorist attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad, and that this was common knowledge among global intelligence agencies. In what translates awkwardly into English, Cossiga told the newspaper Corriere della Sera:

“All the [intelligence services] of America and Europe…know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the Mossad, with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part … in Iraq [and] Afghanistan.”

Cossiga was elected president of the Italian Senate in July 1983 before winning a landslide election to become president of the country in 1985, and he remained until 1992.
Cossiga’s tendency to be outspoken upset the Italian political establishment, and he was forced to resign after revealing the existence of, and his part in setting up, Operation Gladio. This was a rogue intelligence network under NATO auspices that carried out bombings across Europe in the 1960s, 1970s and ’80s. Gladio’s specialty was to carry out what they termed “false flag” operations—terror attacks that were blamed on their domestic and geopolitical opposition.
In March 2001, Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra stated, in sworn testimony, “You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force … the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.”
(American Free Press)

(Google "Gladio")
185

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 20/01/2008 11:03:45
MK,,



Nice try, dancing again, AWAY from the FACTS. All you have is hyperbole from VERY tenuous sources, and that simply does NOT hold up against the FACTS.

Cheers from the Rockies
186

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 20/01/2008 17:10:51
#200

Tenuous sources?...the Military,the FBI,The Washington Post,Newsweek,Pensacola News Journal......
These reports have never been completely denied.
Also,are you aware that the Purdue analysis contradicts and negates the NIST analysis?
Which set of "facts" is correct?

For more information see "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth"....
http://www.ae911truth.org/

This site is also of interest;
http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/

All you have is CAPITAL LETTERS......
187

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 21/01/2008 06:17:21
Hello MK,

The 'American Free Press' is not the FBI.
Further, I don't really care what the former president of Italy said: a country that is on its 200th government since WWII, and is run through a system of bribes, is NOT to be believed.

Try again.
188

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 21/01/2008 06:22:25
Hello again MK,

I'd also like to point out that a Lt. Colonel, IF he actually said it (which would be a severe violation of the UCMJ), who holds the post of vice-chancellor of a Language School, could in any real way, be 'in the know' in any way, shape or form.

Last time I checked, Lt. Col. in a secondary command role in a Language School, do not hold top secret or above security clearance.

Again, sounds lovely to the uninformed, but el zippo to those in the know.

Try again.
189

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 21/01/2008 18:34:04
#203

There is no doubt that Lt.Col.Steve Butler said this,he actually wrote this in a letter to a local newspaper.
Here is a report from the BBC on the subject;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2025939.stm

#202

Francesco Cossiga made his comments in the newspaper "Corriere Della Sera" which isn't the FBI either,it is however "Italy's oldest and most widely read newspaper".
http://www.corriere.it/politica/07_novembre_30/osama_berlusconi_cossiga_27f4ccee-9f55-11dc-8807-0003ba99c53b.shtml

I ask again,which analysis of the Twin Towers collapse is correct?
Purdue or NIST?
They can't both be right.
190

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 21/01/2008 18:52:36
#202

If all Italians are liars,which is what you seem to be saying in your post,maybe a senior German politician would be more acceptable to you.......

The former German Defense Minister Andreas Von Bülow made the following comments about 9/11 ;

"Planning the attacks was a master deed, in technical and organizational terms. To hijack four big airliners within a few minutes and fly them into targets within a single hour and doing so on complicated flight routes! That is unthinkable, without backing from the secret apparatuses of state and industry." (Tagesspiegel, 13. Jan. 2002)

"If what I say is right, the whole US government should end up behind bars" and "They have hidden behind a veil of secrecy and destroyed the evidence - that they invented the story of 19 Muslims working within Osama bin Laden's al-Qa'eda - in order to hide the truth of their own covert operation"
(Telegraph)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_von_B%C3%BClow
191

ihate911conspiracybelieversbecausethey'reretards,

23/01/2008 00:46:04
Hey, MK-dufus. I don't hear anyone saying that all Italians are liars, which is just your extremist hysterical mind out of control again. What I will say is that all Scots are a bunch of weak minded, girly, wimps. That's why you girly guys where those cute little skirts. To believe that the Bush admin orchestrated the 911 attacks in order to get some oil, which we DONT even have (prices are still at $3 per gal) is so far fetched it wouldnt even work on the sci-fi channel. It's just weak minded thinking by girly, brainwashed, skirt wearing wimps like you! Why dont you just go join al qaeda and blow yourself up there, Sweatpea.
192

weary observer,

USA 29/01/2008 21:37:37
Exactly WHAT could anyone reasonably expect when Muslims were permitted, even encouraged to emigrate to your countries? Same as here in the US - ten years ago there were approximately 300 'mosques' in America, now there are over 3000 and growing day by day. We sleep on, while they, imitating the example of ants or termites, steadily work to either take over our countries or destroy them.

If their 'culture' is so damned 'superior,' why don't they stay home and enjoy it? They speak out of both sides of their mouths: lie, actually, they are greedy as pigs, just like the 'more, more, more' consuming folks here!

With the multi, multi-billions upon billions of oil cash, THEIR OWN PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE THE HIGHEST STANDARD OF LIVING IN THE WORLD!

Religion of peace, my foot!
193

Frodo the Scot,

outside lookin in 18/02/2008 04:07:49
Islam/muslims. cannot and will not assimilate to a democratic/royalist form of government.So something has to give.......and you can bet the farm there is going to be One of 2 things happen.....MASS deportation OR Urban warfare. England the whole world is watching DO NOT ERR
194

ihate911conspiracybelieversbecausethey'reretards,

24/02/2008 19:46:08
Hey, Frodo. I got some bad news. I dont think those deportations are going to happen anytime soon, looks like the opposite. Read this:http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/global.php?id=1386709
and this:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3412244.ece

 

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