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Abject failure to tackle racism is Scotland's real secret shame

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Published Date: 08 October 2006
SCOTTISH football can often appear smug about racism. It is almost as if, because there are so few non-white faces on the pitches and in the stands, because the sectarian blight is consistently highlighted, agonised over and now even acted upon, that there is no appetite for addressing any other form of bigotry.
Yet there is evidence to suggest that not only are attitudes towards race allowed to remain poisonous at football grounds in this country, but that the Scottish Football Association are either impotent or wilfully ineffectual when it comes to tackling such abuse head on.

It is easy to dismiss the Airdrie supporters who donned Ku Klux Klan masks to taunt Gretna player Matthew Berkeley last Saturday as the lunatic fringe. Members of club's notorious Section B hooligan group are well known for their Nazi-saluting and for glorying in their fascist tendencies on their website. Undoubtedly, the Lanarkshire club stands alone in the Scottish game when it comes to attracting such open extremists. But lower level - though no less insidious - racial abuse is meted out on a weekly basis at games across the country.

It often goes unreported because victims let it slide for fear that in going public they will simply become victims all over again. "You have to develop a thick skin because I believe people use words and terms of abuse without ever thinking about what they are saying or appreciating how hurtful these are," said one black player, who did not want to be named.

"If you react either in games or in the press then opposition supporters know they have you, they know how to get to you. It can be hard to rise above it, especially when sometimes nothing is done to stop it. I've played in games where monkey chants have been aimed at me and I've looked across to where they are coming from only to see stewards laughing."

The SFA are sensitive to the claim that they are not doing enough to tackle racist incidents in our game. Previously, anti-racists groups have claimed these occur weekly at amateur games and every other week in the senior set-up. But it is the very policy of the Association not to act against clubs.

"We believe that criminal prosecutions are the way to deals with those guilty of racist activity at football games," said SFA spokesman Andy Mitchell. Yet only around a dozen such high-profile cases have made it to court in the past three years. "If supporters are shouting and ranting in a racist manner - which is extremely rare - they are easily pinpointed. What we have been doing is working closely with Show Racism the Red Card on anti-racist initiatives because our view is that the key is education in schools rather than fining clubs. We are also making headway with club licensing, which obliges clubs to have an anti-discrimination policy which demonstrates that they promote equality.

"The SFA takes a different approach from UEFA, who will punish clubs for the actions of supporters within their stadiums. Our view is that, however vigilant a club might be, supporters will still be able to throw coins or objects and shout racist abuse. As long as all reasonable preventative security measures have been put in place, the SFA believes clubs should not be held accountable for the actions of rogue individuals."

Yet, in the context of UEFA, it is only punitive measures against clubs, or the threat of them, that seems to bring about positive changes in supporter behaviour. When they fined Rangers for inflammatory chanting earlier this year, UEFA's warning that severe sanctions would follow future misconduct was the impetus for the club's already -established anti-sectarian drives to begin to have a genuine impact.

Disturbingly, the SFA stands accused of an unwillingness to take affirmative action even when faced with a racism charge made against a player from a member club. East of Scotland league side Spartans, regarded as the country's best-known 'senior' non-league side after their recent Scottish Cup successes, are currently awaiting a response to an appeal on a ruling they lodged a fortnight ago. That followed the SFA's disciplinary committee returning a "not proven" verdict over their complaint that Spartans player Dan Gerrard was racially abused by Whitehill Welfare's Wayne McIntosh in a league match on August 5.

Spartans claim that the handling of the case points to something more sinister. "They are simply trying to sweep the incident under the carpet the carpet; racism is awkward for them and in spite all the hot air about stamping out racism with various drives and initiatives, the reality is that they don't want to know," said Spartans secretary Jim Murray. "But we have a duty of care to Dan, who is an educated, honest young man, and will not allow this to go unpunished.

"We are flabbergasted as to how the SFA have acted over the incident from start to finish - as is a lawyer now acting on our behalf. But we can't in conscience give in. We have set up a youth academy and have several Asian players. There is no way then we could let this drop because that would simply be saying to them 'come along and play for us and if you happen to be racially abused then we will simply accept it if the person responsible is let off scot-free'. What signal are the SFA sending out?"

Spartans contend that McIntosh called Gerrard "a black bastard", a comment heard by two other players in their team. "One of them is a director with the Royal Bank of Scotland and the other a doctor, so their character is beyond question," Murray said.

They also contend that McIntosh was brought into the Spartans dressing room afterwards by the Whitehill Welfare coaching staff to apologise to Gerrard, a gesture the Spartans player rejected because he claimed to have been racially abused by the same player previously. This is not disputed by Whitehill co-manager Raymond Carr. "I didn't hear any racist comment but I said to Wayne that if he had said anything that might be even construed as offensive, which happens in the heat of a game, he should apologise," Carr said. "But the Spartans crowd were having none of it."

Spartans and Whitehill were notified of a disciplinary hearing on September 16. But when both Gerrard and McIntosh (both of whom declined to talk to this newspaper about the incident) informed the SFA that they were unable to attend, Spartans waited for word of an alternative date. "Instead, we received a phone call two days later saying the committee had met and decided it was not proven," Murray said. "How could they go ahead without the persons involved, or the key witnesses? Our lawyer says it is a joke, that such a thing as due process needs to be followed."

Not so, according to Drew Herbertson, who heads up the SFA's disciplinary and referee department. "The committee observed fully all the procedures we have in place for players' hearings," he said. "The player facing the disciplinary action was happy for the case to be dealt with in his absence, which the committee has the power to do. I cannot comment on what was allegedly said or done on the day of the complaint but, one way or another, the committee took full account of the submissions made by all parties and concluded that the case could not be proved. It was therefore closed with no further action to be taken."

Herbertson would not be drawn on when or if nine of those on the 10-man committee - Whitehill Welfare representative Andrew Renwick requires to sit out because of vested interest - will consider Spartan's right of appeal. "It would be inappropriate of me to comment on a possible appeal at this time," he said. "Their letter will be responded to when business allows."

Murray believes Whitehill officials handled themselves impeccably on the day, but that the SFA's "cop out" has since resulted in them feeling that they are the wronged party. Whitehill co-manager Carr believes an appeal would serve no purpose.

"It is Spartan's right to request one but it has been dealt with by the SFA and is over and done with," he said. "I don't see any point in bringing it up again."

Carr would not reveal whether any action had been taken against McIntosh. "We are dealing with it within the club and what goes on within the club will remain within the club," he said. "We are dealing with Wayne in another manner. As far as we are concerned it is over but Wayne is dealing with it personally through other means. He is not happy at being branded a racist when he has Asian friends. Wayne is by no means a racist. We live in a very touchy world where us whites have to be careful what we say to persons of other colours, in my opinion."

Spartans and McIntosh are now dealing with this matter in different ways - Spartans by resorting to legal avenues, McIntosh "through other means" - in order to reach a satisfactory conclusion. In both cases, the SFA is not involved in solving a problem that should be central to its role as a governing body. The SFA may find that convenient, yet it is surely entirely unsatisfactory that clubs self-police on such sensitive matters. Racial abuse festers where inaction creates a vacuum.

The full article contains 1620 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
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1

Dabulamanzi,

08/10/2006 05:45:57

Perhaps if the SFA had acted back in 1988 when Mark Walters had bananas and other itrems of fruit thrown at him by celtic supporters dressed in gorilla suits and, a week later, by hearts supporters we may have been well down the road in sorting this problem out. Funny how these incidents and the lack of action by the SFA then aren't mentioned in the article whilst Rangers, sectarianism and UEFA is.

2

smoonline,

08/10/2006 07:26:04

Having been at the Gretna game I would say that the masks donned by the three idiots, who were shouted down by genuine fans, were worn prior to Berkeleys introduction? so to sensationalise that it was as he came on is a misrepresentation of the incident.
The three individuals should be thouroughly ashamed and be banned from New Broomfield as Airdrie do not need this kind of following, I was dissappointed with the police action when these people were identified to them,they took no action

3

Lachie Mor,

Dumfries 08/10/2006 07:28:50

Iain

Be careful before casting stones on this one. The Mark Walters case may have been high profile and the behaviour of those fans was cretinous, but Celtic's black players have over the years endured a much more systematic and sustained level of abuse from fans at Ibrox than Walters had to put up with.

It is a fact that Walters played for Aston Villa at Celtic Park alongside Paul Elliot and suffered no abuse whatsoever before his debut for Rangers.

It is impossible excuse what happened that day, but it was not typical of how black players were received at Celtic Park. Every club in the country has its share of racists who hide behind the anonymity of the crowd. It is to be hoped nowadays that this problem will be addressed wherever it occurs.

4

CamFromOz,

Sydney 08/10/2006 07:55:13

I just cant believe there are still such small-minded people out there in todays day and age.

Time to grow up kids...

5

Ricco,

08/10/2006 08:36:12

Iain
You have a bitterly selective memory. As George says, racial abuse has been quite sytematic from other sources. Are you honestly telling us that you - and the SFA - have never heard the monkey noises aimed at Bobo Balde? This from Graham Speirs in the Herald from 2002:

"At one point early in the first half, Baldé sauntered over towards a corner of the Copland Road stand to take a throw-in. The image of this player collecting the ball, set against a frieze of around 100 supporters leaping up and down in their seats in imitation of apes, remains fixed in the mind. To this observer, it was one of those moments when there was a qualitative difference between idle comment about racism and the horror of it actually happening."

I't been happening on a regular basis for years - but the first thing you did with a racism story was try to make an anti-Celtic story out of it. I do not believe for an instant you have any serious intention to effect change.

6

Ricco,

08/10/2006 08:40:10

...and anti-Hearts too

7

Thommo,

Glasgow 08/10/2006 08:41:22

Graham Spiers later backed away from his claims about Rangers fans abusing Balde.

Let's not turn this serious subject into another tit-for-tat Old Firm argument. An element of fans of various clubs have been guilty of racism.

8

Ricco,

08/10/2006 08:47:23

Thommo
The comments were led by a direct one-sided slur, possibly designed as a pre-emptive strike.

Do you have a quote from Graham Speirs backing away? I haven't seen it.

9

James,

Newcastle 08/10/2006 10:01:38

Interesting to see the Celtic supporters (presumably) attempts to justify what remains the most disgraceful display of racism ever witnessed in a British sporting arena, possibly even in Europe. I refer of course to the sick abuse dished out to Mark Walters when he made his debut for Rangers at Parkhead on 2nd January 1988.

You talk of "monkey noises?" Try gorilla suits, Ku Klux Klan hoods and a trackside that looked more like the Glasgow Fruit Market.

As for Graham Spiers comments, he later backed down and retracted. Spiers is well-known for his anti-Rangers agenda but has been caught out too many times in recent months and is left with no credibility whatsoever.

10

James,

Newcastle 08/10/2006 10:08:08

Richard, you said this:

"Celtic's black players have over the years endured a much more systematic and sustained level of abuse from fans at Ibrox than Walters had to put up with."

Care to show me when a Celtic player was subject to being showered with fruit, subject to racist chants and looking at so-called football supporters wearing gorilla suits an Ku Klux Klan hoods?

You revisionism and in fact downright lies know no bounds.

11

,

08/10/2006 10:18:07
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12

,

08/10/2006 10:29:30
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James,

Newcastle 08/10/2006 10:30:28

You are quite correct.

Add to that former Celtic PR man Paul Cooney LAUGHING about it live on Radio Clyde.

They can attempt to airbrush, deny, deflect and in Richard's case just lie but the truth shall out.

14

Dabulamanzi,

08/10/2006 11:07:08

George and Richard, reread my post and sit and think about what I said in that post before posting your replies. I refuse point blank to explain what I was saying at it is patently obvious to anyone with any sense the point i was making. It seems to me that your paranoia is getting to you.

15

James,

Newcastle 08/10/2006 11:32:59

Iain,

I fear you are wasting your time. All these two are interested in is a "youse ur wurser than us" argument and are prepared to tell lies to achieve the moral highground.

As for the author of the article, Mr. Smith, it may interest you to know that he is an ex-editor of the Celtic View and a former season ticket holder at Parkhead. Alex McLeish once walked out of a press conference beacause of Mr. Smith's line of questioning.

One wonders if my comments will now be chopped or do Mr. Smith and SoS believe in democracy?

16

Vix,

London 08/10/2006 11:37:14

Why does this inevitibly have to degenerate into a discussion of whether Rangers or Celtic players were subject to the most racist abuse? Irrespective of whether it's one person out of 50 or 60,000 at Ibrox or Celtic park who shouts racist abuse, makes monkey noises, etc or one person out of a couple of hundred (if that) at a lower league match, these are serious offences and should be stamped out. It's a disgrace that stewards and police are still standing back and ignoring this sort of thing - and the same goes for the fans sitting within earshot who don't stand up to these people. I admit that latter point is idealistic - the sort of people who still think it's acceptable to be racist are probably not the kind of people who I would be happy to confront face-to-face! However, it is simple enough to take down people's seat numbers and report them to the club - and in this day and age of people recording traffic wardens and the like, it's perfectly simple to provide the proof. Then the onus is on the club and the SFA (and indeed the police) to take action. The appathy of other fans can be misconstued as acceptance by people ignorant enough to be racist, and that can't be right.

And if what Spartans have said is true, the SFA should be ashamed of themselves and this issue should be picked up more widely in the media. A lot of focus has (rightly) been given to anti-sectarian initiatives, but that does not mean that we don't have other issues to tackle and the fans, SFA, clubs, Scottish Executive, etc shouldn't lose sight of this.

17

James,

Newcastle 08/10/2006 12:35:36

Vix, in answer to your question:

"Why does this inevitibly have to degenerate into a discussion of whether Rangers or Celtic players were subject to the most racist abuse?"

There is no discussion. It's not up for debate. The worst incident of racism ever witnessed in a British sports stadium if not in the whole of Europe was perpetrated by Celtic fans on the 2nd January 1988.

And here's the rub. Rather than be humble, humiliated and apologetic about it, these same Celtic fans roundly booed Mark Walters just last week when he played in a CHARITY game at Celtic Park.

Leopards don't change their spots.

18

Vix,

London 08/10/2006 13:28:39

James, my point was that instead of looking back and attempting to establish which club's fans were most collectively racist at a particular point in time, we should be focussing on what is happening now and attempting to change the future behaviour of football 'fans'.

Don't get me wrong, these were abhorrant public displays of racism and I don't discount their importance as examples of unacceptable behaviour, but what use is there in trying to establish which club is worst? (Or was, almost 20 years ago.) Is what happened to the Spartans player any less horrible for the fact that only one person made a comment to him? I don't think so.

We shouldn't get distracted from the real problem. I appreciate your point about leopards not changing their spots and it is very difficult to change the deep-rooted prejudice of an indiviudual. However, why should these people feel that it's appropriate to behave like this in a football stadium when the message is clear that you can't make racist comments in any other public place? The unfortunate reality is that if it is apparently ok for these people to share their prejudices very vocally at a football match it sends the wrong signal to other people. I'm a Rangers fan and have heard little kids of about six screaming out sectarian songs at Ibrox - clearly not knowing any better - because others around them are doing it. They don't know what they're saying, wouldn't be allowed to get away with anything of the sort at school, but 'everyone else is doing it' at the football, so it's ok... Well, it's just not right. And before anyone replies, yes, I'm sure it's the same at other grounds - in fact I know it is. But as my granny says, two wrongs don't make a right and that's no justification.

Anyway, I'm going to get off my soapbox for now and go and nurse my hangover from last night's celebrations.. Still smiling!

19

James,

Newcastle 08/10/2006 13:38:28

How interesting that you clearly and rightly have a problem with racism at football matches then round off by saying you were celebrating last night, presumably due to Scotland's victory.

How interesting you have a problem with "sectarian songs at Ibrox".

In view of the above, you will no doubt condemn the Scotland fans in your next post? Or does singing about "sad English bastards" not count as racism?

Is singing about battles in 1690 sectarianism whilst singing about battles in 1314 isn't?

This should be good.

20

Thomas,

Paisley 08/10/2006 14:01:23

There is no doubt every club in the country has a moronic element attached to it. However it now appears that Celtic FC and its supporters are above criticism in this matter.

The Mark Walters game at Parkhead had to be the worst outbreak of fascist racism ever seen in any football ground in the UK. Yet once again the media and Celtic fans have airbrushed this event from history.

Not only did they racially abuse Walters, but they have consistently behaved this way at many sporting grounds over the years.

In fact many of the clubs own players have complained about the treatment received at the hands of the supporters. So until we have a non biased report and the media stop blaming all the ills of society on Rangers Football club and its fans, then we will never reach the point of cutting this intolerant behaviour from society.

21

Bobby,

Scotstoun 08/10/2006 14:34:02

Graham 3.

I don not understand your mentioning of walters playing for villa against celtic and not being racially abused.

Are you saying he was only being racially abused as he was wearing a blue shirt instead of a claret one or are you saying that it was sectarianly motivated racial abuse?

22

Swede16,

Stockholm 08/10/2006 16:07:17

Well done Iain, you have succeeded in dragging a serious debate on racism in to tit-for-tat. Oh poor Rangers everbody everbody is after them !
Why do some Rangers fans continue to feel hard done by. One thing does not escuse the other.

23

Swede16,

Stockholm 08/10/2006 16:11:35

how sad that some Rangers fans want to focus on the mark walters incident some 15 years ago. Using that to claim some sort of injustice against their own club .
They seem more interested in trying to restore their own clubs tarnished imagr then they are in fighting discrimination in all its forms.

24

Ricco,

08/10/2006 16:57:44

The Mark Walters incident was appalling. I have never heard any sane individual try to defend it.

Also, if you read my original post, I never named Rangers - although I agree that the Grahm Speirs quote made it clear it was abuse of a Celtic player at Ibrox.

Speirs eye witness account is very clear and specific. Did Speirs then actually go on to publish "I was mistaken, I never saw 100 people making monkey gestures at Bobo Balde"? - or any words to that effect Please supply evidence if he did.

The point is that Celtic fans do not deny that the Mark Walters incident happened - and are rightly ashamed of it. Rangers fans continue to deny any such behaviour from their own fans. There will never be progress under such circumstances of complete denial.

What do you fail to understand?

25

Anthony,

08/10/2006 20:20:33

#1 Iain and #15 James

Your level of narrow mindedness knows no bounds.

The disgraceful incident in question happened in 1988. It has never been repeated, thankfully.

The reason that Rangers and Sectarianism are still mentioned is because it is still happening nearly every week in 2006.

And as far as the football loyalties of the author of the article, what they have to do with what is an excellently written piece is not clear to most sensible people.

The amount of pity I feel for both of you is probably more than you are deserving of, but still....

26

Brendan Jones-Kerr,

09/10/2006 05:17:27

Mac I did not drag the debate into a tit or at, my post was the first one. George and Richard dragged it into tit for tat but you woudnt see that would you? Reread my original post and think about the point I made. It is relevant to the article. As for you Anthony you add nothing further in intelligent comment to this debate.

27

James,

Newcastle 09/10/2006 06:50:52

25. Anthony

"The disgraceful incident in question happened in 1988. It has never been repeated, thankfully."

The only thing that knows no bounds is the degree to which you are prepared to tell lies.

Remember Inverness Caley? Remember the racial abuse dished out to Barnes, Wright and Blinker? That night they were all racially abused.

Ian Wright said this to BBC News 15th February 2000:

"I felt I was caught up in a war crisis in Kosovo not involved in a football result that wrecked John Barnes' career as Celtic manager.

"Some so-called fans covered my car in spit, they were shouting racist obscenities at myself and Regi Blinker.

"They were screaming at me to get back to London, to clear off out of the place and that I didn't deserve to wear their colours. It was stone age stuff from reptiles."

You Anthony, are the only one around these parts who deserves pity. One eyed doesn't even begin to describe you. The facts remain the same. The worst incident of racism ever witnessed in a British sporting arena was perpetrated by CELTIC fans.

PS Were you one of the clowns loudly booing Mark Walters every time he touched the ball at a charity game at Parkhead just LAST WEEK?

28

DavidM,

Glasgow 09/10/2006 08:22:05

@ #11

McPherson made this point about racism in 1994 in the Sunday Mirror, and about the disgraceful cover up in the media of Celtic's shame over the Walters incident, which is the largest most sickening display of racism ever seen in Scotland, closely followed by the Tartan Army singing racist chants in the early 80s at England players. He refers to both.

"I recall being criticised after a commentary for not mentioning the racist chants made by the Scottish support against the coloured English players at Hampden during an international.

I pleaded guilty to that because I had been so accustomed to sectarian abuse being hurled from one end of the ground to the other,that monkey noises in the background meant nothing to me.

Then bananas were thrown at Mark Walters of Rangers at Celtic Park when he made his debut there.

Unknown to me at the time, that incident was scandalously edited out of the television highlights of the game, on the grounds that it might reflect badly on Scottish football.

In other words we could face up to contending with sectarianism because it was our own special cross to bear. But racist abuse had to be air-brushed out."

29

Ricco,

09/10/2006 08:47:32

........and still we have the policy of denial from the Rangers fans.

Several Celtic fans have openly stated how shocked and ashamed we were by the Mark Walters incident. Zero Rangers fans have conceded any racist incidents by Rangers fans. However, I note that none has the guts to come out and state "There have never been any racist abuse perpetrated by Rangers fans." Not even troglodytes like to look so ridiculous.

30

James,

Newcastle 09/10/2006 09:18:47

Of course there are racist fools at Ibrox, at Tynecastle, at Pittodrie, at Easter Road.......at every ground in Britain probably.

Of course there will have been racist incidents at Ibrox, but none that even come close to what happened at Celtic Park in January 1988. Not even remotely close.

Are you happy now Dickie?

And when it comes to denial, deflection and just downright lies, Celtic fans have no peers.

31

,

09/10/2006 09:54:17
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James,

Newcastle 09/10/2006 10:16:18

Graham,

Dickie clearly only hears and sees what he wants to.

Here's a quick quiz:

1) Which Scottish football ground was closed during the 2nd World War after their fans displayed pro-Nazi sympathies?

2) Which set of fans chanted "Malvinas" to show their support for the fascist military dictatorship of Argentina in 1981/82?

3) Which set of supporters were responsible for the single worst act of football-related racism seen in the UK, on 2 January 1988?

4) Which set of supporters sing a song about Sean South Of Garryowen, a murdering terrorist and member of the anti-semitic 'Maria Duce'?

5) Which set of fans racially abused their own players in the Club car park in 1999 after beaing beaten at home by Inverness Caley Thistle?

Answers on a postcard to:

'If it talks like a fascist, walks like a fascist and quacks like a fascist, it's a fascist' Competition, c/o Sellikfootballclub, Fuhrer Street, Mussolinitown, Timsville.

33

,

09/10/2006 10:28:31
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Figgy,

Dalry 09/10/2006 10:28:39

what bothers and puzzles me is that certain fans of a particular club try and gain the moral high ground by lying but then again perhaps I shouldn't be suprised as to this day,large sections of them still support the IRA and during the war the same fans(or their forefathers)openly supported nazi Germany.
Of course if they can provide evidence to the contrary,I will duly aplogise.

35

Bobby,

Scotstoun 09/10/2006 10:54:29

Graham 33.

Sometimes it is also indicative of a mindset to "look" at the flags they don't fly.

The arrival of a new player from foreign parts is usually welcomed with flags of their country dotted around the stadium ie Welsh dragons for Hartson. There was even a card display for the arrival of Roy Keane.

Wonder when Sno & JVoH will get theirs or where were Sutton & Thompsons? There is not even one for their current captain. No wonder his father said he would not return to their stadium.

36

,

09/10/2006 11:32:17
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&Larrsonfixestheradio,

09/10/2006 12:00:19

How can any sane Scottish person expect the SFA who ARE STILL Rangers´s protection racket to do anything about prejudice in the Scottish game. They even got their knickers in a quandry with regards a minute silence for Pope John Paul II. A minute silence was held at every professional football ground in Europe for him. Israel and Turkey to boot. This is nothing but a PR excercise. The racism in Scotland towards Irish players is disgusting and its as bad in Falkirk and Edinburgh as it is in the south of Glasgow.

38

,

09/10/2006 12:05:59
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Figgy,

Dalry 09/10/2006 12:13:42

Charlie
will you concede that this new minutes applause was introduced because Celtic fans could not be trusted to observe a minutes silence,especially after their antics during the moments respect for the Queen mother who as it happens was the mother of your Queen,assuming you are by birth a British subject.
Do you condemn the chanting of IRA songs at Celtic park and do you think that support by same of nazism during the WW2 was acceptable?

40

James,

Newcastle 09/10/2006 12:16:42

Oh dear Charlie. Even MORE bitter and twisted lies. Every professional football ground in Europe eh? Do you lot have no shame?

Perhaps you will explain to me why the SFA should instruct Scottish Football Clubs to hold a minutes silence for a Polish religious leader who lives in Italy and whose Scottish followers are in a vast minority of our population?

Your paranoia is hilarious! Don't look behind you!

PS You probably missed 40,000 Celtic supporters telling (nominal) Roman Catholic Paul Le Guen he is a "sad orang bastard" two weeks ago. Tell me it was "only the craic"....go on, go on, go on....

41

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09/10/2006 12:22:19
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James,

Newcastle 09/10/2006 12:24:58

39. David

Allow me to tell you about Celtic fans "minutes applause" and how it came to be. The first time they ever chose this method of tribute was after the late, great George Best passed away. How could any fan of the beautiful game disrupt a silence for the Northern Irish genius I hear you say? I'll tell you why. A few years before his passing, Bestie said this in his "Night and Day" newspaper column:

"A new book claims that Gerry Adams was head of the Belfast IRA and was responsible for abductions and executions. This is old news. I could have told you this years ago. Most people in Ireland know the truth about Adams, and it isn't pretty. He is a liar and a charlatan. He has put on the robes of the peacemaker, but underneath he is still carrying his gun. Adams is responsible for many peoples deaths, and I'm sure he's on the IRA's army council. Adams shouldn't be allowed to speak in public, and we shouldn't give him the oxygen of publicity on TV, radio and in the newspapers. Every time he opens his mouth he is insulting our intelligence."

Republican were outraged, and we know which football club is followed by thousands of Irish Repulican's don't we?

THAT my friend is why Celtic introduced the Minutes applause. Listen to no more of their lies.

43

,

09/10/2006 12:35:08
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44

Bobby,

Scotstoun 09/10/2006 14:16:42

Charlie was this Europewide minutes silence at domestic or Europen games?

Try as I might I cannnot find any mention of them in google.

Will you be campaigning for a minutes silence for the passing of every religous leader, ie the head of the CoE, the Dalai Llama, etc?

Or is it a selective kind of I want to be offended rant you had and you are not really interested in the observance of a religous leaders passing?

Is it anti-Irish racism or xenophobia, is there a difference?

45

Anthony,

10/10/2006 09:51:07

The narrow-mindedness and downright hatred that most of you Scots suffer from still manages to surprise me, even after all these years.....

I feel so sorry for all the new waves of immigrants arriving in Scotland these last ten years from all over the world, I wonder if they will end up being as hated as us Irish are....

You can't just live and let live no? James, Gordon, Graham, David, Iain?

46

Figgy,

Anthony 10/10/2006 16:36:42

if they contribute to my nation and dont take from it whilst living here and hating our very exisistance because we are British ,then they are more than welcome.
I am a proud Brit living in my country with no love of my countries enemies no matter where in the world they come from.
What say you?

47

Figgy,

10/10/2006 16:37:33

meant for Anthony

48

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

10/10/2006 18:09:52

It was reported around the world that Pope John Paul II a reknowned man of peace was booed at his minutes silence in Scotland at a national event and that was just your east coast mates. The SFA was in a right qaundry about having to do so at Ibrox. Thank goodness for Scotlands name that they done their protection job for Glagow Rangers FC. Go and look on the thread for the Livorno game on the scotsman and follow the URL that I proudy posted. Where you can see hundreds of Rangers fans proudly giving a Nazi salute. When this happened at Aberdeen it was English football hooligans. The small minority of Rangers fans that sing up to our knees in fenian blood were caught doing so at the san siro when all fans were banned. So what do the SFA do when you guys proudly do your Nazi salutes ? and try and dress it up as the non existent - red hand salutes. I think the SFA should release an official statement clarifying this - dont you ?

Nazis, Friends of Nazi , Nazi sympathisers or Nazi tolerant - what´s it to be James, Gordon, Graham David , Iain ?

You are a disgrace to Scotland and humanity by tolerating this despicable behavious. My remit is to let as many people know as possible.

RED HAND SALUTE LMFAO

49

bob,

London 10/10/2006 18:48:57

The discussion about whether one or other of the Old Firm teams is more racist than the other fairly takes the breath away.

I thought that I would be reading views on the abuse of the black Spartan footballer by a guy from another team. It is an important issue in terms of Scottish football TODAY. Are black players allowed to play to the best of their ability in Scotland or not? What will the weak-kneed SFA do about racism at Scottish matches? How can they be persuaded to take the issue seriously? Sadly, teams tend only to respond to heavy tactics and if Scots teams knew that they would lose points then they would definitely do something about racism. Maybe we could at least discuss some of this rather than just haver on about things that may or may not have happened decades ago.

I write as a Forfar loon, whose team was shamed by racist abuse against a Hamilton player in 2002.

50

Figgy,

Dalry 10/10/2006 19:23:11

Charlie
you indeed do wonders for our cause as you let the rest see how hollow your arguments really are.
Our work is made a lot easier with debaters such as yourself.
Given that we are proud to be British I fail to see where you can establish a link with nazism and you of course will know what the salute stands for,off course you will.I would presume you were happy to allow a certain country which is part of the British Isles to harbour nazi u-boats during ww2?
An as a wee aside,does your old bhoy Dicanio still give his salute?

51

DavidM,

11/10/2006 07:39:13

@ 48. Absolute genius Charlie. Blame Rangers fans for not booing a minutes silence that never took place. If this is the level you are reduced to then god help you.

As you well know, the Rangers fans do the Red Hand Salute, and would hardly support the very regime many of our fathers and grandfathers fought against. We still wear poppies to remember their fight, yet those poppies are clearly absent from the vast majority of Celtic fans.

While you're on your smear campaign, what's your thoughts on Celtic Park being closed for a month due to the Celtic support singing songs in support of Hitler, or the Celtic fans singing Malvinas during the Falklands war, in support of the Argentinian far right government?
What about hundreds of Celtic fans showering Mark Walters in bananas in 1989 while dressed in Monkey Suits?
What about the racist abuse of Ian Wright and Regi Blinker, prompting Wright to comment "It was stuff from stone age reptiles"?
What about the booing of Walters at a charity match last week, where a white ex rangers player (Nigel Spackman) played and wasn't booed?

Please deal in facts only

Oh, and as an add on, your hate filled campaign to stir up trouble in Livorno based upon lies reflects far more badly on yourself than on anyone else.

52

Bobby,

Scotsstoun 11/10/2006 08:56:24

Charlie that is a fine piece of deflection. Any chance of answering questions put to you before asking your own, did your mother never tell you about answering a question with a question?

Like many of your ilk your blinding hatred seems to consume you and the warped nature of your mind seems to render you incapable of reasoned argument and debate.

If you are so anti-nazi why are you not outside the Vatican with a placard demanding they denounce all the right wing dictatorships they are so closely aligned to worldwide, are you a member of the anti-nazi league? or is it as I suspect you just hate your fellow countrymen and will use any means possible, including lies, to denigrate them?

53

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

11/10/2006 15:50:42

The usual smoke screening finger pointing behaviour of Glasgow Rangers fans. There is no red hand salute its a fallacy. Rangers fans are still infamous for their links with the BNP. Being British does not exclude you from being a Nazi. Being anti catholic and anti Irish does not mean that you are a proud unionist. It means you are racist and sectarian. Deal with the issues today that´s what the article is all about. The SFA failing to tackle racism in Scotland. You guys have got to laugh .. hundreds doing Nazi salutes dressing it up us the fictional red hand salute, joyous sectarian singing at every opportunity, a history second to none that even UEFA found incredulous at the first passing of judgement after the Villareal disgrace and the SFA are being blighted for not doing what they have been doing for well on 100 years.

See if any of you can take this discussion further without the ingrained finger pointing smokescreen behaviour of the bigot. The issue is that the SFA are failing to tackle racism: I am saying of course they are. They have officially protected Glasgow Rangers the last bastion of the bigot in Scotland for 100 years and are still doing so. What would anyone else in Scotland expect?

54

Figgy,

Dalry 12/10/2006 15:40:03

Charlie

you have been asked several times to answer the questions put to you.I would take it such a refusal clearly establishes your guilt.
End of debate until you do so.

55

James,

Newcastle 12/10/2006 15:59:56

Charlie 53.

"a history second to none"

This coming from someone who supports a club who were formed for sectarian reasons. This coming from someone who supports a club shut down during the war after their fans expressed pro-Nazi sympathies. This coming from someone who supports a club THAT COVERED UP THE VILE CRIME OF PEADOPHILIA.

Do you realise how stupid you now look?

56

DavidM,

12/10/2006 16:06:47

Charlie. If you wish to talk smokescreens, have a look at your own post. Once again you deny, deflect, and don't answer questions.

Firstly, please answer my original questions if you wish to have any credibility, and for good measure, here's a few more.

Please explain these mythical links Rangers fans have with the BNP, and with fascism with some facts and figures.

Maybe you'll also be able to explain, why with such ingrained support within the rangers fanbase for the BNP, why there have been no BNP politicians elected in Scotland, when time and time again there has been ample opportunity to do so.

Lets see some facts and not the products of your warped imagination.

While you're at it you could maybe explain why your hatred has driven you to bad mouth the whole Rangers support to the Livorno support?

The floor's yours

57

DavidM,

12/10/2006 16:08:25

James,

All this has been pointed out to Charlie, but he's in denial mode.

58

hector flump,

Aberdeen 12/10/2006 16:09:31

I'll borrow a quote from Alan Partridge here, Charlie, 'you're a mentalist'.

If you twist & turn anymore, you'll be inside out.

59

James,

Newcastle 12/10/2006 16:13:11

Charlie is clearly a twisted, bigot who would claim Rangers were responsible for the Holocaust if he could get away with it.

I kept this quote as it's always handy to have when these creatures start spouting their hateful lies. They hate Rangers more than they love their own club. Only a psychiatrist could explain that mindset.

From The Herald on Saturday 6th August 2005. A little comment that says a lot. From an article by Jennifer Cunningham on how Muslims in Scotland have been effected since the London bombings on July 7th :

"Mohammed Javid owns a thriving takeaway in Paisley Road West, a short walk from Ibrox Stadium. Even on match days he says, he never has any trouble."

Go on Charlie. Tell us some more of your lies so we can all have another laugh at you, you sad little man.

60

Feriens,

Glasgow 12/10/2006 17:20:17

To Charlie the Mentallist..

No one will ever know that you've had a lobotomy, if you wear a wig to hide to the scars and learn to control the slabbering.

61

Feriens,

Partick 12/10/2006 17:22:50

Charlie (53)

Has your room got padded wallpaper?


Your son,are a grade 'A' delusional and dangerous clown.

62

Stanley,

12/10/2006 21:31:29

#53 Charlie, you really are a lying half wit. Bet you are one of these people who despise Protestants so much that you would exclude them from work or out your pubs and clubs.
If you are the face of "acceptable" Celtic fans (surely an oxymoron), then thank God you will be next on UEFA and the Police's list. Long deserved.
Out of curiosity, are you one of the vile lot trying to stir up as much trouble at the up coming game in Italy between Rangers and Livorno? Or are you content to stick with TAL and not have an original thought in your head...
parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot....

63

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

13/10/2006 09:58:47

Thanks lads for demonstrating your inability to deal with the issue in this article. Nobody expected anything else. Its not possible. Your collective psyches (or should that be singular) has been set in stone. It´s legitimate to abuse catholics and Irish in Scotland and perform Nazi salutes en masse as long as your supporting Rangers as far as the SFA and other Scottish bodies are concerend.You can also make any excuse you want to make this behaviour acceptable. It´s a way of life - ask UEFA. Do you all work for the SFA perhaps ?

Come on deal with the issue in the article. I dare you ?

Que: fingerpointing & smokescreens

64

Stanley,

13/10/2006 10:02:26

But your a liar Charlie. Its quite simple. Even a bile filled eejit like you should know what that means....surely?
parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot

65

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

13/10/2006 10:12:54

Tangerina,

I am chastised.

66

James,

Newcastle 13/10/2006 10:21:35

Charlie, Charlie, Charlie.

I really did think you'd have quit whilst you were losing. Don't you think you've made a big enough fool of yourself?

One wonders how all those MP's, MSP's and Lord Provosts of Irish descent managed to slip by the Masonic Rangers Gestapo eh?

If you didn't exist we'd have to invent you Charlie.

They're coming to take you away ha ha!

67

DavidM,

13/10/2006 10:28:15

And still you lie and deflect Charlie. I'm still waiting for your facts figures and answers to questions.
You've had days to think up some answers and you have failed miserably.

Last chance to get some credibility.
I'll even let you phone a friend

68

Feriens,

13/10/2006 10:32:02

Charlie ,..

Your club is steeped in shame and Paedophillia...Your religion has inextricable links to Fascism and Nazism ...Your support is the vilest most repugnant and despised support in the U.K. through their support for child murderers and the murders of innocents from Warrington to Warrenpoint..Your church 'Spirits' away paedophiles within it's clergy from areas where many children have been abused....Yet you have the affront to come on here and talk of so called Nazi salutes from Rangers fans?

You really have no shame have you Bhoy?


If i were you,i'd be hiding in some dark corner looking for absoloution for my faiths crimes to humanity over the years,not coming onto a newspapers website making a James Hunt of oneself.

Still,it's what you lot do be is it not..?


DENY-DEFLECT-BLAME OTHERS.

The RC Church and Semtex FC - Scotlands real shame.

69

James,

Newcastle 13/10/2006 10:38:18

Professor of Sociology Steve Bruce of Aberdeen University descrbe and notion of anti-Irish and anti-Catholic bigotry as a "myth" after a detailed study.

Now who are we to believe? A professor who is an expert in his field or Charlie Manson, who's obviously an escapee from somewhere?

70

hector flump,

Aberdeen 13/10/2006 10:48:30

Charlie must be busy tightening his cilice.

71

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 10:53:27

"Six million Jews, thousands of political dissidents, homosexuals, Roma people, Soviet prisoners of war and the disabled were put to death by the fascist hate machine that overran and terrified Europe from 1939 to 45. Sean Russell of the IRA was one of many nationalist fanatics who looked to Hitler for political and military support in the IRA's quest to reunify Ireland at the point of the bayonets of the Gestapo. At the Wansee conference, the infamous Nazi gathering that planned the "Final Solution", the Jewish community in Ireland was marked down for annihilation. Having freed Ireland from British rule, the Nazis expected their collaborators to help them round up Dublin's Jews and ship them off to Auschwitz. That was the price Sean Russell was prepared to pay to end partition."

72

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 10:57:19

Violence raged throughout the afternoon as protesters opposed to the Love Ulster rally, involving Orangemen and relatives of IRA murder victims, fought running battles with Irish police. Cars were set alight and fireworks thrown at police. Shops near O'Connell Bridge were looted as the riot squad combined with a mounted unit initially prevented demonstrators, some of whom were chanting 'IRA, IRA', from crossing the river Liffey.Irish police tried several times to remove the protesters, many of whom hid their faces with Celtic scarves, from O'Connell Street, but they reassembled in side streets. As the rioting continued on the northern side of the Liffey, the loyalists protested outside the Dail gates at around 2pm, the tunes of the Orange bands echoing to empty streets that the police had cordoned off.

73

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 11:01:44

The largest group of foreign volunteers in Nationalist Spain were the 700 men in the Irish Brigade. Eventually, they became the 15th Bandera in the Spanish Foreign Legion, although led by their own Irish officers.

Eoin O'Duffy, one of the founders of the right-wing Irish Blue shirts, was in command. With the English sympathisers, the Irish came to fight for Franco to defend the shared "faith of their fathers".


Franco's troops entering Bilbao
The young Irish volunteers came predominantly from rural areas, with a strong contingent from west Belfast; O'Duffy himself an Ulsterman. Although O'Duffy was showered with honours when he first came to Spain, the Irish Brigade enjoyed a chequered experience on the Iberian Peninsula.

After arrival in Spain in November 1936, they remained in camp in Caceres until February 1937. There were cultural differences and hiccups in liaison between Irish officers and Spanish adjutants and interpreters.

The Irish found Spanish food unpalatable and never acquired the abstemious Spanish habit of drinking, but not imbibing so much to induce inebriation. The Irish were seen as rowdy and uncontrollable.

In their turn, as O'Duffy recalls in his autobiography, when the locals in Caceres put on a bull fight to entertain their visitors, the Irish cheered for the bull, in their estimation, "the best sport on the field".

74

James,

Newcastle 13/10/2006 11:02:45

Aw naw Charlie.....whit ye gonnae dae noo?

Free State used Nazi ruling to bar Jews

Henry McDonald, Ireland editor
Sunday December 8, 2002
The Observer

Ireland was still using the Nazis' racial criteria to keep Jews out of the State eight years after Hitler committed suicide in his Berlin bunker.
A new book charting the history of racism in Ireland reveals fresh evidence of widespread anti-Semitism in the Free State before, during and after the Holocaust.

The book's author, Dr Bryan Fanning, has also found that Sean South, a republican icon killed during the IRA raid at Brookeborough police barracks on New Year's Eve 1957, belonged to the radical anti-Semitic religious group, Maria Duce.

Fanning has unearthed a memo from the Department of Justice in Dublin dated 23 February 1953, which argues that vetting refugees should be on a similar basis to that 'adopted for the admission of non-Ayran refugees' in 1938 and 1939. In his Racism and social change in the Republic of Ireland , Fanning says the definitions in the late 1930s were based on the Nazi racial laws in the Nuremberg decrees. The same act on which the exclusion of Jews was based is still in operation to keep out asylum-seekers today.

The 1953 memorandum makes a distinction between 'refugees of good character of Catholic and Christian religions' and Jewish refugees.

The civil servant who wrote the note concerning 10 applications from Jewish refugees for asylum depicted the eastern European Jews as a danger to the State.

'There is strong anti-Jewish feeling in this State which is particularly evident to the Alien Section of the Department of Justice,' the civil servant wrote. 'Sympathy for the Jews has not been particularly excited at the recent news that some thousands are fleeing westwards because of the recent round-up of communist Jews who had been prominent in Government and in government service in eastern European countries.'

75

James,

Newcastle 13/10/2006 11:04:57

"Youse ur pyoor makin aw ris up so yeez ur."

BBC documentary four years ago asked the question reference Cork's Jewish population ; before 1916 it numbered in excess of 10,000 , lots of Russian/Baltic state Jews on their way to the Americas would find their ships calling in on Cork for fuel before heading across the Atlantic.

Many saw opportunity in Cork and decided to stay , this population was built up over four/five generations. In a twenty year period during the thirties and forties , it completed the journey across to the States. The Jewish population in Cork at the time of the documentary numbered seven(7).

It's worth trying to get a viewing of it , lot's of old IRA types justifying their 'Great hatred'. Who killed Christ , the Jews killed Christ. [IP address logged]

76

James,

Newcastle 13/10/2006 11:09:28

Aw naw Charlie, thurz mair.....

WELCOME TO DUBLIN: A Nazi salute greets Israel fans

IRA extremists targeted Israeli football fans as Dublin was turned into a cauldron of intimidation and vitriol.

Republicans teamed up with Palestinian sympathisers at an anti-Israel demonstration hours before a decisive World Cup qualifier.

The two-and-a-half hour march on Saturday afternoon saw Nazi salutes and "Sieg heil" taunts launched at passing Israel fans.

Eyewitness Michael Abramson told the Jewish Telegraph: "Their intentions were to provoke a fight."

The Irish Government condemned any antisemitic behaviour. While the rally's organiser admitted there will "always be a couple of lunatics around".

Israel snatched a 2-2 draw, boosting their Germany 2006 qualification chances.

But earlier, the Jewish Telegraph witnessed police turning a blind eye to the hostile actions, while clamping down on peaceful Israel supporters.

Police later refused to clear Palestinian supporters from a pre-match gathering of Israelis intended to cheer the team en route to the Lansdowne Road stadium.

They also ignored groups of activists chanting duel support for the Irish Republican Army and the Palestine Liberation Organisation.

A spokesman for Irish Justice Minister Michael McDowell TD said: "The Minister would deplore any antisemitic or racist behaviour either by protesters or on the part of the police,"

Now police have launched a full investigation after the Jewish Telegraph sent them a dossier based on our observations.

"The allegations made are of a serious nature," a spokesman said yesterday. "For this reason they will need to be examined properly and so will take some time."

Estelle Manton of Ireland's Jewish Representative Council insisted: "I'm sure that the police were aware of those perpetrating it [the trouble]. The police do not tolerate

77

Figgy,

Dalry 13/10/2006 11:12:42

Charlie

Do you see how easy it is when you can bring a real argument to the table,rather than repeat yourself and refuse to back up your only point.Not to mention a blatant refusal to answer questions put to you.
Let this be a lesson to you in the future not to bandy words with the big boys.

78

James,

Newcastle 13/10/2006 11:28:48

I am heartened to find there are other Rangers supporters (presumably) out there who, like me, are sicked by the deceit and propaganda being spread by nutcases like Charlie and have decided to challenge their lies at every turn.

Charlie, your game's up bhoy. Slither back under the rock from whence you came.

79

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 11:34:23

Irish Anti-Semitism

This of course was not the only manifestation of Irish sympathy for Nazism which led to them being rebuffed scornfully by the USA, that prevented their qualification for Marshal Aid, and delayed their entrance into the United Nations until 1957. During the War officials of the Irish Free State were outrageous in their racist anti-Semitism which was openly tolerated by the Roman Catholic hierarchy and common currency in Irish society. Indeed Hitler's racial criteria for keeping out the Jew were still being used in Eire 8 years after Hitler's death. A 1953 memo from the Dublin department of Justice argues that vetting refugees into the Republic should be on a similar basis to that 'adopted for the admission of non-Ayran refugees' in 1938 and 1939. The Department of Justice went on to depicte the eastern European Jews applying for asylum as a danger to the Irish State. "There is strong anti-Jewish feeling in this State which is particularly evident to the Alien Section of the Department of Justice." They went on to write 'Sympathy for the Jews has not been particularly excited at the recent news that some thousands are fleeing westwards because of the recent round-up of communist Jews who had been prominent in Government and in government service in eastern European countries.'

When in the Dail in 1943, Oliver J. Flanagan praised Hitler for ridding Germany of Jews claiming, "I doubt very much if they are human!", he was not challenged by any other member. Later in a speech to the Dail he said "There is one thing that Germany did and that was to rout the Jews out of their country. Until we rout the Jews out of this country it does not matter a hair's breadth what orders you make. Where the bees are there is honey, and where the Jews are there is money." Flanagan was soon to join Fine Gael and remained a T.D. for them until 1987 briefly becoming Minister for Defence in the late 1970's. In 2004 Fine Gael l

80

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 11:36:06

The Front's founders were Patrick Belton, who was formerly a T.D. for both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael as well as being an ex-Blueshirt, and Alexander McCabe, formerly elected for both Sinn Fein (pre-1922) and Cumann Na nGaedheal and later to be a member of Eoin O'Duffy's pro-nazi People's National Party. At one I.C.F. rally in Cork in September 1936 40,000 people assembled to hear Monsignor Patrick Sexton, Roman Catholic Dean of Cork, blame the Spanish civil war on "a gang of murderous Jews in Moscow". Beside him stood Alfred O'Rahilly, the future president of the University College of Cork, and Douglas Hyde, the future president of the Irish state who up until introduction of the Euro has his head on the Irish £50 note.

This track record of democratically elected and clerical Jew-baiting was certainly foundation for the fact that only 30 European Jews fleeing persecution were given asylum before the war, none during it, and only a handful afterwards, and that there was consistent government opposition to granting any asylum. Even a year after the close of war, with the memory of the concentration camps fresh in the Irish public's consciousness, the Department of Justice was still vehemently opposed to Jews entering Ireland. In August 1946, the Minister of Justice refused to admit 100 Jewish orphans found at the Bergen-Belsen death camp.

This race hatred should be no surprise given the recent history there had been, of pogroms against Jews in Ireland, such as in Limerick in 1904 when Roman Priest Father John Creagh incited the local population against "blood-sucking" Jewish money-lenders. His sermons brought about a two-year trade boycott of Jewish businesses that was accompanied by harassment and beatings and resulted in the almost total departure of the 150-strong Limerick Jewish community.

81

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

13/10/2006 11:49:43

Thanks lads for demonstrating your inability to deal with the issue in this article. Nobody expected anything else. Its not possible. Your collective psyches (or should that be singular) has been set in stone. It´s legitimate to abuse catholics and Irish in Scotland and perform Nazi salutes en masse as long as your supporting Rangers as far as the SFA and other Scottish bodies are concerend.You can also make any excuse you want to make this behaviour acceptable. It´s a way of life - ask UEFA. Do you all work for the SFA perhaps ?

Come on deal with the issue in the article. I dare you ?

Que: fingerpointing & smokescreens

82

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 11:53:29

Deny-Deflect-Blame Others


The Charlie/R.C. Way....

83

James,

Newcastle 13/10/2006 11:54:10

You're stuttering and repeating yourself Charlie. Suppose it's better than spouting a whole new set of lies. You have yet to address ONE SINGLE POINT put to you about your own club's shame.

In summary - your a loser.

84

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 11:54:55

I was hoping for a battle of wits with Chico the clown,but i see you've arrived unarmed.

85

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

13/10/2006 12:06:22

Don't swear, be offensive or post comments that break the law.

Don't post personal details such as addresses.

Keep your comments relevant to the story or discussion.

Ok lads a starter for 10

How can the SFA be sited for not doing enough about racism when this type of behaviour is tolerated and has been for years ?

http://www.alelivorno.it/forum/FAL/viewtopic.php?t=2562&a...

Place: Glasgow. Parkhead, Rangers end
Time: Saturday the 23rd September 2006

86

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 12:15:02
87

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 12:15:25
88

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 12:15:58
89

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 12:16:43
90

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 12:27:25

On a little sidenote here deranged Chico,your comments are noted and are being processed for forwarding to Strathclyde Police,who in turn will contact this newspaper for your contact address,as we now firmly believe that you along with others are behind a campaign to have Rangers fans attacked when they travel to Italy next week.

It's called 'Incitement' you silly Bhoy,and you are most culpable of such.

Knock,Knock....Answer the door Chico....It's Chico time.

91

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 12:29:34

Hands up who loves the Nazi's..?

http://jafproject.net/images3/salute.jpg

92

James,

13/10/2006 12:30:22

I think Charlie's away scurrying around the internet looking for any former Rangers players doing Nazi salutes.

Amid all this Nazi-talk. I wonder which team the founder of Nazism would have supported had he been born in Glasgow instead of Austria?

'Hitler remained a Catholic until the day he died. In 1941 he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

In fact, Hitler was never excommunicated from the Catholic Church, and Mein Kampf was not placed on the Church's Index of Forbidden Books.

93

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 12:31:17
94

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

13/10/2006 12:32:18

Thanks "The Factman"

All these Nazi saluting Rangers fans are paying homage to former Celtic player and right wing racist Paulo Di Canio. Now I know where the idolatory for Di Canio comes in. You sure your right ?

Still doesn´t touch on Scotland and the SFA´s shame though, in my opinion.

95

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 12:33:36
96

Feriens,

The Real world,not Charlies 13/10/2006 12:34:40
97

James,

Newcastle 13/10/2006 12:40:31

Charlie Bhoy,

You clealry feel strongly about all these masons and orange b's at the SFA who cover up Rangers' failures and highlight Celtics

Was Jack McGinn one of these masonic conspirators Charlie? We should be told.

When don't you go over to SFA HQ and chain yourself to the railings and demand some answers. Whilst your there, could you ask a question for me?

Why were Celtic FC never as much as fined never mind banned from playing after it was proved, in a court of law, that Celtic manager Jock Stein and the Celtic Board of Directors covered up the heinous crime of paedophilia?

Thanks. Let me know what they say.

98

James,

Newcastle 13/10/2006 12:42:47

Charlie,

I do believe "Factman's" making a real &rse of you! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

99

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

13/10/2006 12:43:37

Going Home James ?

100

James,

Newcastle 13/10/2006 13:04:48

Not at all Charlie. We haven't done the sacrificial goat bit yet, the ceremonial burning of the communion wafer has dragged on longer than expected. I'll be here for a while.

Then tonight it's out chapel burning and nun-roasting.

The SFA.

Kelly, White and Co.

Jock Stein's cover up.

Paedophilia.

Not an issue.

Any comment?

101

Stanley,

13/10/2006 13:30:00

Charlie, Straight question. Are you one of the Celtic fans who have been contacting Livorno fans forums? Do you approve of it?
2 answers with either yes or no...

102

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

13/10/2006 13:38:57

James,

Keep your comments relevant to the story or discussion.

What part of that dont you understand?

The article is clearly about the SFA´s impotency in tackling racism. As I and UEFA have already pointed out this type of behaviour is acceptable in Scotland and has full SFA approval. Hence the accusation from myself and UEFA about the SFA being Rangers protection racket and has been for nearly 100 years. Have a good look at the URL I posted and to think that Artur Boruc was brought to book by the CPS with the help of the Strathclyde police for making gestures. Some gestures in Scotland are acceptable and more provocative than others seemingly. What horrendous gesture did Artur Boruc do to merit a warning over his indefensible behaviour that was more appalling than the Nazi salues en masse that are acceptable, because its the Teddy Bears? and I am being cliped on to Strathclyde´s finest and being accused of stirring things up. A little obtuse surely or is this photograph created by my goodself using the studios of Pixar in the hope of blackening the good name of Glasgow Rangers?

103

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

13/10/2006 13:49:02

Stanley,

NO & NO and anybody willingly doing so is a bum. Its completey and totally innappropriate behaviour. I posted the URL on a Scottish board in relation to the article. I should also add that I am not Catholic and not Irish.I was brought up Scottish Protestant but dont believe in god. I hope Rangers go all over Europe, behave well enjoy themselves and win. I have no problem with that.It would make lots of my friends happy increase the coefficient put Scotland back on the map. Not with Nazi salutes however. The SFA cannot be seen to tackle racism when it has more than tolerated sectarianism for years. It´s like asking the Catholic church to be in charge of birth control

104

,

13/10/2006 15:16:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
105

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

13/10/2006 15:44:26

Alan,

Keep your comments relevant to the story or discussion.

106

hector flump,

Aberdeen 13/10/2006 16:15:36

Not only is Charlie a mentalist, he's a liar too. The net is closing.

107

Ally Ross,

13/10/2006 16:35:53

Charlie, you have my upmost respect for your patience with these bigots.

108

hector flump,

Milngavie 13/10/2006 16:52:27

I concur Alasdair, no honest I do.

109

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

13/10/2006 16:54:50

I dont want to get into a slanging match between Irish unionists and republicans. They all should embrace the peace process. Although I have no religous beliefs I think that respect should be shown to a ceratin extent based on what people believe in. The article is about the SFA doing little towards preventing racist behaviour TODAY within Scotland. Uefa themselves in an historic ruling RECENTLY stated the same thing. This would normally shame any civilised being entity(i.e organisation) into doing something about it. Cleaning up their act etc. Boruc gestures verses hundreds doing a Nazi salute. What picture is Scotland selling?

Answer: NOT A VERY GOOD ONE

110

hector flump,

Aberdeen 13/10/2006 17:01:10

If you tell a lie often enough & all that! Charlie you are terminally boring.

111

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

13/10/2006 17:43:46

Hamish or should that me Shame Ich,

What lie ?

http://www.loyalistfm.net/new/articles.php?p=1396

112

Bobby,

Scotstoun 13/10/2006 18:32:55

Charlie at 105 you tell Alan to keep it relevant then go on to mention boruc which has been proved was not for blessing himself and then some link to a loyalist net radio.

Stick to the subject of the article you say, tell me how they are relevant?

Do you get irony at all?

Your blind hatred has manouvered you into a position more extreme than the BNP.

You have proved beyond any doubt you are a liar, denialist, bigoted and paranoid person so warped that you have become the very embodiment of all of the things you seek to stereotype with your lies.

Any chance of answering the questions asked of you earlier?

113

Figgy,

Dalry 13/10/2006 19:20:29

Charlie

If you are protestant then I must be the virgin mary.
I would say this is another desperate deflect and lie because you have beeen well and truly defeated and Alisdair,read the thread properly and see the evidence.
Stating correct facts does not a bigot make.

114

,

13/10/2006 21:19:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
115

James,

Newcastle 14/10/2006 09:47:12

Charlie. You said this:

"I should also add that I am not Catholic and not Irish.I was brought up Scottish Protestant but dont believe in god. I hope Rangers go all over Europe, behave well enjoy themselves and win."

If you back-pedal any faster you'll end up in the middle-ages.

Do us all a favour and get some help.


 

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