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Published Date: 09 September 2007
By ALBERT AJI
IN DAMASCUS
THE United States was yesterday accused of encouraging Israel's violation of Syrian airspace.
Damascus has said that Israeli jets broke the sound barrier flying over northern Syria before dawn on Thursday, then "dropped munitions" onto deserted areas after being shot at by Syria's air defences.

It is still unclear exactly what happened, a
nd Syria has stopped short of accusing Israel of purposely bombing its territory. An Israeli spokesman has said he could not comment on military operations.

But the influential Syrian newspaper Tishrin said in a front-page editorial yesterday: "This new Israeli hostile operation was carried out in co-ordination between Washington and Tel Aviv."

The paper said US silence can only be interpreted as an "overt and scandalous encouragement of Israel".

In Washington, the US State Department has made no specific comment on the incident, citing a lack of details about what happened. Some officials suggested the administration of President George W Bush did not want to stoke tensions further by taking sides between Israel and Syria.

The incident came after a summer of mounting tensions, which have fed worries of a military conflict erupting between Syria and Israel. Damascus accused Israel last month of seeking a pretext for war, and the Israelis are keeping a close watch on Syrian troop movements.

Both sides have insisted they want no conflict along the disputed frontier.

However, Syria fears that it is being squeezed out of a US-brokered Middle-East peace conference that is planned for November, and the country will be left at a disadvantage in the standoff with Israel.



The full article contains 269 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 September 2007 10:18 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Syria
 
1

J Morrison,

Djookers is a Troll 08/09/2007 23:50:41

"Syria has stopped short of accusing Israel of purposely bombing its territory"

Of course they did, it's a lie by Syria. Israel got close to the boarder.

2

Lindsey,,

Glasgow 09/09/2007 02:03:30

Israel would never, ever bomb one of its neighbors.

3

Suck McCrunchie Vll,

as banned from the Scotsman forum 6 times 09/09/2007 02:47:12

The Jew haters like thatscottishwoman & Djookers will surely balme Israel.

4

Muskrat,

09/09/2007 03:04:30

I'm sure the Israeli pilots were just emptying their toilet tanks.

5

The Daleks,

09/09/2007 03:36:21

#3 Suck.

Condeming Israeli actions (when appropriate) does NOT equal hating Jews.

6

Honest Jock,

Leith 09/09/2007 07:12:33

1

Of course it is I have it on the best authority in Tel Aviv that Israelli jets have been redesigned to fly from their airfields to the border and no further.
apparently some kind of auto pilot kicks in turns the aircraft around and returns it to base.
All part of the new peace plan or so I am told.

7

Biker,

Ayr 09/09/2007 07:15:14

Isreal has constantly and consistantly violated cease fire agreements by shelling the west bank from the sea.
This is not anti semitism talking but fact.

8

Conan,

Here 09/09/2007 07:15:22

#5 - yes, strictly speaking, you are right - but only to the extent that calling six eggs 'six', versus 'half a dozen'.

Israel, the modern state that so many who post here seem to take great joy and apply great diligence in criticising, is, in fact, a Jewish State. What does that mean? It is a modern state that was founded as a homeland and refuge for the world's Jews. Others live there, but, at least for now it is 'the Jews' homeland'.

Israel's action or inaction are perfectly fair targets for criticism - if and when that criticism is itself 'fair' - which in these pages it frequently is patently not.

Rather, and all too frequently, the criticism is in fact criticism of the very existence of the State of Israel - criticism of the very existence of the Jews' homeland. This underlying criticism is commonly the base upon which all other criticism are laid.

So, for example, one well known poster here who appears to posses a manic obsesion with the notion that 'the Jewish Army uses children as human shields' (which may or may not be true) proceeds with gossamer indiference to the fact that in many more instances the enemies of the Israeli State, the Jews' homeland, not only routinely and cronically emply such tactics - but also use children to deliver bombs, rat-out Israeli collaberators, rat-out any and all who are not totally toeing the Islamist or Palestinian fascist line .... with absolutely no criticism made whatsoever. Indeed, if or when such instances do occur the 'Palestinian' side is cheered on and it becomes yet another opportunity taken to pile on the criticism of the State of Israel, the Jews' homeland, on more time.

Nothing; not leaving gaza, not building a wall to protect the lives of both sides, not releasing prisoners, nothing, absolutely nothing, that the Israeli State can do (dbesides diappearing) can or has ever engendered any suppoprt, praise, thanks or any other for of positive statement by the rabid critics of the S

9

Honest Jock,

Leith 09/09/2007 07:55:36

8 Conan

What a waste of posting space.
Israeli government foreign policy does not equal Jewish faith therefore critisism of Israelli government foreign policy does not equate to critisism of the Jewish faith.
That is simple logic and I only needed a fraction of the posting space to make the point.
So logically Conan you are a waste of space.

10

,

09/09/2007 08:48:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 950043, Article id was mapped to record!
11

Conan,

Here 09/09/2007 08:49:27

No one said anything about the Jewish faith.

12

Honest Jock,

Leith 09/09/2007 09:23:44

9

I thought I just did? but if you want to be purile you can just as easily change the parameter Jewish faith to read Jews or Jewish or Judaism the point is just the same.

13

HomeSweetHome,

Who Cares 09/09/2007 09:50:37

#11 Conan

It is jock who is a waste of space.
Yesterday he said the incident showed how pacifistic Syria was.
Shooting missiles at a plane is pacifistic?

You can prove to him that the earth revolves around the sun, but he'll still believe its the other way around, because facts be darned, he'll believe whatever he wants to.

And then with his typical caveman mentality he'll tell you why the facts are wrong and his opinion is right.

My guess is he's one of the typical trolls in a new name.
Just like Djookers/Finking/Hooty/Jobby

14

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 09/09/2007 09:54:05

#8

"Only to conclude that fundementally, condeming Israeli actions (when appropriate) does equal hating Jews"

So where does that place Jews who are opposed to Israel, either its existence or its actions?

"They are there to stay - deal with it."

OK. So by your reasoning, we can support everything that Israel does or else stand accused of hating Jews. Thankfully the people of Israel are not bound by such moronic thinking, and have broad and differing opinions on state policy and action, although presumably almost all accept the right of Israel to exist.

Supporting Israel's existence yet criticizing its actions does not make someone a hater of Jews. Just as sure as criticizing SNP policy on bridge tolls doesn't make a person anti-Scottish. (Although no doubt on these forums they'd be accused of that, which I suppose lends some support, but no logic, to your views.)

15

Honest Jock,

Leith 09/09/2007 09:59:32

13 Homeboy

Really? can you cut and paste it here so I can see it. Must have been during one of my black outs.

16

thatscottishwoman 2,

09/09/2007 11:07:25

#8 Conan:

Tut, Tut, an age old tactic used to stifle debate, shame on you!

As Selgovae, rightly, points out your argument falls at the first hurdle as in how does it square with the many Jews, not only in Israel but across the world, who oppose Israeli policy and practice. The short answer is it doesn't.

17

Cool,

09/09/2007 11:46:17

#7 Shelling the West Bank from the sea, is not possible,considering where the Med.Sea is & where the West Bank is...someone doesnt know his geography.....this is just another example of the nonsense folk with an anti-israel bias post!

18

J Norrison,

09/09/2007 12:55:43

10. jobbyweeker, www.communist.com

This person said it best before Djookers started deleting many of the posts on an earlier article.

#43 Ardanaiseig, Argyll 9:29pm 8 Sep 2007

Who would want to pay to put an advert on a new site with relatively few "hits", I'm sure the goal here and why a certain few are promoting this communist news website is to generate enough "hits" so they can start making money. That has to be the only reason they were able to acquire the one person with any substance who sold her soul. I could be wrong but I remember several attempts by Finnking and TSW to make personal contact with her to bring her on board early on. She now even occasionally asks people to click onto the site. If a bunch of radical anarchists that want to get together to start their own business I wish them well, but if they have someone like Djookers involved I would go out of my way to avoid it. I for one will never go to their site out of principle

19

HomeSweetHome,

Who Cares 09/09/2007 13:07:29

#14 Selgovae,

You are mostly correct. Criticizing Israel is not the same as anti-semitism.

What I believe Conan was referring to is those who criticize Israel for everything from its policies towards its Hilocaust survivors to its policies towards the Palestinians to its response to being attacked by Hizbollah to its water policies to its immigration policies to its very existance.
Its those who criticize Israel with such abject hypocracy that certainly seem to have issues with the Jewishness of the Jewsih State.
Many of the people posting here, ignore the massacres the Palestinians perpetrate on Israel, yet condemn Israel for even arresting those who kill its citizens.
Certainly an ulterior motive is at work there

20

The Daleks,

09/09/2007 14:02:07

If you don't like what a person says, call them a racist, or an anti-semite, or a homophobe, or any other pejorative term currently in vogue with those who would attempt to stifle free thought and free speech.

Once again, criticising Israel, when appropriate, does not equal anti-semitism, and anyone who says that it does clearly has their own agenda.

21

,

09/09/2007 14:09:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 950812, Article id was mapped to record!
22

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 09/09/2007 14:17:54

#19 HomeSweetHome

I take your point, but I think you're wrong about Conan. What he did was try to rationalise the "you're either for us or against us" mentality expressed by many on these forums on a variety of subjects. If you disagree with Bush's policy on Iran, you're an America-hater. If you disagree with Alex Salmond on anything, you're anti-Scottish, if you think global warming is due to CO2 emissions, you're a tree hugger. And so on. It's the tactic of the ignorant bully.

I agree that there are those who appear to conveniently ignore the murders and other actions of Palestinian terrorists. However, I think you may be confusing those people with others who take it for granted that terrorism is wrong, and see no reason to compare the policies and action of the Israeli government with those of the Hezbollah or Hamas militants. Personally, I have higher expectations of Israel than of other groups or countries in the region. It's a burden that comes with being civilized. (Hmmm. I fear I may be shot down for that remark.)

23

thatscottishwoman 2,

09/09/2007 14:52:48

#21 Honest Jock:

Yes, state policies and the resultant practice. The freedom to challenge any state's policy and practice is a fundamental right and responsibility. Who else will "police" governments if not the the people?

The continuous attempts to stifle critical thinking and informed debate on conflicts in the Middle East are taking us closer and closer to losing the little influence we have on decision makers and their futile wars.

24

Biker,

Ayr 09/09/2007 15:33:28

Hey Cool you may remember back about a year to eighteen months ago when a family was obliterated by shells from an Isreali destroyer. You can be a pedant about the actual area but it does not alter the facts.

25

HomeSweetHome,

Who Cares 09/09/2007 17:49:32

#24 Biker

I guess you read the headlines, but missed the follow up.
They were killed by a land mine the Palestinians planted.

You want to care about the fact, you should at least learn them.

#22 Sel
I won't shoot you down, but it is wrong to overly criticize Israel for a standard you admit you do not hold Syria, Egypt, Jordan, etc to.
As to the actions of Hamas, Hizbollah, et al, there are many posters on this board (scottishwoman being one) who never hold them responsible for the results of their own barbaric actions.
Hamas openly calls for genocide and backs up their words with deadly actions.
Jock defends them by saying its just rhetoric. Scottishwoman whines about how the world is somehow still required to give them free money.

26

Conan,

Here 09/09/2007 18:50:53

#16 - but, what if, like you, I have no shame - them what?

27

Conan,

Here 09/09/2007 18:51:45

#16 - but, what if, like you, I have no shame - them what? And, furthermore, what if I can't tipe and spell at the same tyme - then what?

28

Guga II,

Rockall 09/09/2007 18:55:55

#8 Has been living in America so long, and mixing with neo-con republicans, that he thinks like one of them.

29

Orpington Buff,

09/09/2007 19:20:33

#24 Biker

Distance between the Med and the West bank is, at the town of Herzliyya on the coast, 15km.

Even tHe Israeli Navy's lowly SAAR 5 vessels have weaponry including 130km-range Harpoon missiles and Gabriel (nice name) that has a range of 50km. All in easy range!

It was so nice of the US tax payer to buy these death machines for the Israeli government. Incredible generosity!

30

,

09/09/2007 19:22:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 951442, Article id was mapped to record!
31

Orpington Buff,

09/09/2007 19:24:05

Conan

"Because it is a fact that Israel = Jews = Hatred of Jews = Hatred of Israel."

THere are scores of Jews who would diagree with you on that. Do they hate themselves?

Come on.

32

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 09/09/2007 19:35:40

#25 HomeSweetHome

"I won't shoot you down, but it is wrong to overly criticize Israel for a standard you admit you do not hold Syria, Egypt, Jordan, etc to."

I was expecting the shooting down to come from the other side. But I'm not sure that it's wrong. How many times as kids did we resent the adult expression, "I expected more from you,". And yet how many times as adults do we employ it, and mean it too?

"Scottishwoman whines about how the world is somehow still required to give them free money."

if she has, then I don't agree. But I can't help smiling at the idea. It's hard to imagine a Scottish woman or man advocating free money to anyone, unless they're family or it's someone else's money.

33

HomeSweetHome,

Who Cares 09/09/2007 19:45:26

#32 Sel

I hear what you are saying, but I think you would agree that is very different than spanking one child for getting A- minus and not saying anything to another getting F's.
Expecting everyone to rise to their level is one thing, the constant criticism of Israel for things that the people trying to kill them dint even pretend to care about is more like the first example.

As to scottishwoman's whine, yes. The Palestinians are the largest recipient of welfare on the planet, recieving over $1.6 billion dollars or over 500 per person in the WB and Gaza.
And when Hamas came into power vowing it has the 'right' to murder Jews (Hamas's covenant boasts: "HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the circle of struggle against World Zionism [and] the fight against the warmongering Jews." It makes clear that there is to be no end of killing: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.'"
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/muravchik2004042708...) scottishwoman and other whined about the fact that the world had cut off their aid.

Apparently she and others think that not only shold the world allow a genocide to occur, they should pay for it!

34

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 09/09/2007 21:17:06

#33 HSH

" The Palestinians are the largest recipient of welfare on the planet, recieving over $1.6 billion dollars or over 500 per person in the WB and Gaza."

I hope you're confident with those numbers. But I think you'll find the average American/Brit/German receives more than $500 in welfare benefits every year. I get more than that myself in "child benefits", as does every other UK resident with children.

I find it's remarkably difficult to find consolidated data on aid recipients on the internet. (Easy to find info on donors.) For example, the OECD doesn't list Israel in a list of recipients:

http://www.oecd.org/countrylist/0,3349,en_2649_34447_2560...

Yet other sites show the US alone donating much more than the figure you quote for Palestine to israel (if you include military aid):

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

But someone will rightly argue that the US military aid has to be discounted as there is no equivalent data to compare with for the proxy military support that anti-Israeli actions receive through Syria, etc. and whomever in turn that money comes from.

And so it goes on... One thing I'm sure of is that there are truth and lies on all sides.

35

HomeSweetHome,

Who Cares 09/09/2007 22:39:09

#34 Selgovaw

Perhaps I should have said per captita
And no, the average American/German/Brut does not recieve more than $500 in welfare payments every year (I think you may be confusing some terms here - welfare-aid that is not contributed to or earned in any way, not the social systems we all pay into and then collect what we paid +/-)

As to Israel, the numbers are not that hard to come by, but, again, Military aid is different from economic aid. But they total around $3 billion per year (and strting in 2008, there is no economic aid, just military assistance and 95% of it must be spent in the US, so its not like they can use the money for whatever they want, or even to help their own economy)
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

And dont forget, there are aprroximately 2.5 million Palestinians and 6 million Israelis. So even a simple 'apples to apples' comparrison makes the Palestinian per capota signifigantly higher.
For In 2004 the number was 1.14 billion.
Economic aid - recipient: $1.14 billion; (includes West Bank) (2004 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbo...

It may be fact that there are truth and lies on both sides, but one side has a free and open press which has gotten Prime Ministers indicted, Presidents thrown out of office and military scandals exposed.
The other side has a tightly controlled propoganda arm which is neither open nor free.
There are variations to the shades of gray, and that important to recognize as well.

36

Orpington Buff,

10/09/2007 00:02:11

".......just military assistance and 95% of it must be spent in the US"

74%

37

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 10/09/2007 00:15:19

#35 HomeSweetHome

" think you may be confusing some terms here - welfare-aid that is not contributed to or earned in any way, not the social systems we all pay into and then collect what we paid"

In the UK, about £2500 is paid per capita annually on welfare payments excluding pensions, health, and child benefit.

"but one side has a free and open press which has gotten Prime Ministers indicted, Presidents thrown out of office and military scandals exposed."

Something the UK should aspire to. :-)

I have to sleep now. Thanks for the chat. Take care!

38

Conan,

Here 10/09/2007 00:56:06

Allright, so, its agreed then? Conan is right again.

39

Orpington Buff,

10/09/2007 01:04:18

38. Conan

"Allright, so, its agreed then? Conan is right again."

Yes, of course.

40

Orpington Buff,

10/09/2007 01:09:16

37. Selgovae

It's true, trying to find reliable figures is fraught with dificulties. As HSH says, the Israeli media are quite open and, considering that the basic 'accusation' is that Israel receives aid not availble to the Palestinians, we can conclude that using Israeli figures on aid will give a picture that can relied upon.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/for...

"On the other side of the coin, Israel does receive aid on more favorable terms than other nations. For example, all economic aid is given directly to the Israeli government rather than allocated under a specific program. Also, starting in 1982, Israel began to receive all its economic aid in a lump sum early in the fiscal year instead of in quarterly installments as is done for other countries. Israel is not required to provide an accounting of how the funds are used. Israel also receives offsets on FMS purchases (U.S. contractors agree to offset some of the cost of military equipment by buying components or materials from Israel). "

This report also cites the huge loan guarantees put up by the US government of $9.2 billion between '93 and '97, one off payments such as the $28m in 2002.

"Altogether, since 1949, Israel has received nearly than $100 billion in assistance." not including military 'aid', loans and loan guarantees.

Since 49 the military LOANS have been $11b and the grants have been $51.3b.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S...

Putting this together (use 24% of mil grant and ignore loans/guarantees): 6mil people have each received $323 per year for each of the last 58 years. Including the military (why remove it?) the figure is $435. A grant total of $151.3 billion

41

HomeSweetHome,

Who Cares 10/09/2007 01:21:40

#40 Hooty/Finking/etc

And yet the Israelis, as Americas ally in the Middle East give intel, as well as weapons innovation for that money.

The Palestinians are given over $500 per person, and what do they do for the world?
Suicide Bombings
Plane Hijackings (although admittedly rare of late)
Rocketing civillian cities
Calls for genocide

Ah, how benfiticent those Palesinians are.

As to the UN bs, lets ask one quick question
Jordan killed thousands and thousands of Palestinians in one month and recieved no censure of any type
Syria slaughtered 10,000 of its own citizens and the world sat silent.
Palestinians illegally launch missiles into Israel every day, a war crime according to the Geneva Convention, and nary a word,

.
Prior to the Madrid Conference in 1991, an analysis of the UN voting record in relation to Israel found that from 1967-1988, the Security Council passed 88 resolutions against Israel, and zero resolutions criticizing any Arab state. Israel was "condemned" 49 times; not one Arab country so much as a single time. In the General Assembly, 429 anti-Israel resolutions were passed in those years, with Israel "condemned" 321 times, Arab nations not once.

So your point is that the UN sucks? I agree.

42

Orpington Buff,

10/09/2007 08:53:37

"The Palestinians are given over $500 per person, and what do they do for the world?"

Do what I did: demonstrate that to be true,please.

For how many years has that payment been going on? Who gets the money? What are the conditions etc etc?

The UN: The Lion's Den. Get rid of the Veto.

Where did you get the 49, 429 and 321 figures from?

43

HomeSweetHome,

Who Cares 10/09/2007 12:21:12

Hooty

Try reading
#35


 

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