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Sorry Scots lucky to avoid a rout

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Published Date: 10 February 2008
WALES 30
SCOTLAND 15
YESTERDAY'S match only goes to prove that the scoreboard really does lie. It is one of life's mysteries that Wales won this match by just 15 points despite dominating proceedings from the first whistle to the last. It says something of the cussed n
ature of the Scots that they hung on to the Welsh coattails, closing the gap to just two points midway through the second half, before the home team made things safe in the final quarter. Chris Paterson kicked five penalties to overtake Gavin Hastings' Scottish points record in this championship, but there was little else for the travelling fans to celebrate.

After their troubles last Sunday, the scrum enjoyed the upper hand, John Barclay fronted up again in a losing cause and Mike Blair enjoyed a storming match, tackling like a dervish and mopping up any number of other people's mistakes. He also seemed to be the designated catcher of every high ball Wales sent into the sky, though goodness knows why since he must be the second smallest player on the field.

But it was the smallest one who had the biggest impact. Diminutive Welsh winger Shane Williams scored two tries, the first and the last of the match, both were beauties, despite the controversy surrounding the second. What Scotland would do for someone with half his pace and invention. The same applies to James Hook, who gave another lesson in flyhalf play before giving way to Stephen Jones late in the game.

Against the run of play, Scotland took the lead after an opening ten minutes of mayhem which saw them scrambling to keep their own line intact. Paterson slotted a simple penalty after Andy Henderson's interception led to a five-metre lineout at which the Welsh infringed.

Scotland could hardly have been worse in the opening minutes of the match if they had turned up in clowns' uniforms because they played like refugees from the big top. They lost the first lineout and Dan Parks looked on as Welsh flanker Martyn Williams hacked downfield. Nick De Luca fumbled and Gavin Henson hoofed it again. Full-back Hugo Southwell eventually put his body on the ball approximately two inches from his own try line. So far, so stupid and it didn't get much better in the first half.

Parks saw one clearance kick charged down by Welsh skipper Ryan Jones. The same thing happened against Argentina in the World Cup; headless farmyard animals learn faster than Scotland's playmaker, who was lucky the ball bounced into touch. Blair then broke from his own 22 but his sluggish forwards failed to go with him, the ball squirted out of the under-manned ruck and the men in blue were grateful to see Martyn Williams' toe-poke roll harmlessly into touch.

Just when the Scots needed to keep their collective cool, Nathan Hines lost his and the big Aussie was shown a yellow card for throwing a harmless looking arm at Lee Byrne which still caught the Welsh full-back in full view of the linesman.

Even when desperately defending their lines, the Scots attempted to run the ball out of defence, and eat into Hines' ten-minute sin bin into the bargain, but they lost the ball to a turnover and only Blair's sharpness at the base of the Welsh scrum won it back.

How Wales failed to add to their scores is anyone's guess. Tom Shanklin's first-half pass to Shane Williams drifted forward and Blair intercepted a scoring pass from Martyn Williams after the break, but these are just two examples of a great many chances that went west. When it arrived on 12 minutes, Wales' opening touchdown still owed something to Scotland's stupidity.

With the Welsh 22 wide open, Southwell attempted to dink the ball over the Welsh defence but the industrious Mike Philips was one step ahead. The scrum-half made ground and when he was eventually felled, Wales moved the ball quickly left where they had numbers. Byrne made the initial break and Shane Williams stepped inside the covering Blair for a cracking good score.

Hines returned to the action in time to see both kickers slot a penalty apiece to leave Scotland trailing by 10-6 at half time and to leave 74,000 Welsh fans rubbing their eyes with disbelief.

The Scots were modestly better after the break despite the loss of captain Jason White to a head injury, but the script stayed the same. The visitors scored penalties, three more from the boot of Paterson, and Wales scored tries, though not as many as they should have. As the match wore on, they dominated territory and possession to such an extent that it was all the Scots could do to get out of their own half.

Hook rounded off another magnificent game with a well-taken touchdown, handing off Ross Ford's unconvincing challenge before diving over the line. Victory was then assured when Hook's replacement, Stephen Jones, kicked a 64th-minute penalty and Shane Williams scampered off his right wing to dive over in the left-hand corner after running it past any number of Scottish defenders and the TMO. The video official may have called it wrong but the try was poetic justice after Wales' earlier profligacy.

In the dying minutes the Scots forwards hammered away at the Welsh line with a series of fruitless pick and drives that have become something of an unwanted Scottish trademark.

That is now five consecutive matches – 400 minutes of rugby in total – that Frank Hadden's team have gone while managing exactly one try. The sad truth is that Wales blew more chances that Scotland created yesterday... or possibly even in the last five matches.

Wales: L Byrne; J Roberts, T Shanklin (S Parker 72), G Henson, S Williams; J Hook (S Jones 57), M Philips (D Peel 57); D Jones (G Jenkins 53), H Bennet (M Rees 57) A Jones, I Gough, I Evans, J Thomas, M Williams, R Jones.

Scotland: H Southwell; N Walker, N De Luca (G Morrison 70), A Henderson, C Paterson; D Parks (S Danielli 67), M Blair (C Cusiter 72); A Jacobsen, R Ford (F Thomson 72), E Murray (G Kerr 67), J Hamilton, N Hines (S MacLeod 61), J White (A Hogg 32), K Brown, J Barclay.

Scorers: Wales: Tries: S Williams (2) Hook. Cons: Hook (2), S Jones. Pens: Hook, S Jones (2). Scotland: Pens: Paterson (5)

Referee: Bryce Lawrence (NZ).

Attendance: 74,576.





The full article contains 1091 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 February 2008 11:14 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Six Nations
 
1

Paddi,

10/02/2008 00:20:29
What an abject performance, almost as spinless and wimpering as last weekend. And to think Scotland were the "darkhorse" people within the camp talking about "maybe this year". More like whitewashed wooden spoon favourites. The Italians are going to be licking their lips in the last match
2

Conan the Librarian™,

10/02/2008 00:54:16
I dread the English game.
3

thebigiam,

london 10/02/2008 01:13:08
Does anyone remember those happy days when Scotland suffered from 'white line fever' and couldn't get over the try line? These days, it seems we can't even get into the opposition 22.

Wales - the excellent Martin Williams apart - probably have the weakest pack in the 6 Nations. I just can't see Scotland giving anyone a good game, let alone winning a match, for the rest of the competition if we continue with the same personnel and tactics.


4

,

10/02/2008 01:34:04
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5

Westend Warrior,

10/02/2008 01:46:26
Its time for a complete overhaul of tactics and selection.

The majority are good players who are being over-coached and programmed not to play whats in front of them. Hadden needs to go or, failing that, forget his "bigger is better" ethos and bring in young attacking players who are desperate to play for their country.

Moray Low, Thom Evans (faster than Shane by the way), Ben Cairns, De Luca, Godman, Strockosh..there are others.

Lets use the last three games to lay a blueprint for the future and blood these hungry youngsters otherwise we WILL get left behind and become a 2nd tier nation.

Do it now Frank, no more excuses, change it now and not in Spring 2011 when its too late.

6

Paddi,

10/02/2008 01:48:03
Oh for god sake come on and stop being such a stereotypical Scots bad loser. Every team gets the rub of the green and the poor decisions, its still a ref and two touch judges and the TMO. What about England being denied at Twickenham when the touch judge from Madras said Hogan was in when he was about a foot out. Nikki Walker's try at Murrayfield v the bokkas was like American football touchdown the guy made a mistake it wasn’t "BIAS" anyway the game was gone when the non - Williams try was allowed. All home sides get the rub. moaning about ref's isn’t going to change anything.

Thank god for Paterson. Blair, & Henderson had a good go at it too. Southwell had a shocker and Nick de Lucca, I'm sorry but he might be able to cut it for Edinburgh he looks v v ordinary on this stage. Jacobsen was my pick of the forwards, with Kelly Brown though I don’t think the latter is a true #8, Ford had a poor game.
7

,

10/02/2008 02:09:27
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8

,

10/02/2008 02:10:41
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9

Jack Barr,

Tomigaya 10/02/2008 03:09:56
For entertainment value a backline of:
Cusiter
Parks
Webster
Di Rollo
De Luca
Dewey
Southwell

That will have the Murrayfield crowding pissing themselves with laughter at the missing of tackles, dropping of balls, crashballs off the wing from Dewey, and general panic at passing and catching of a rugby ball.

All are Hadden selections in the past why not put them all on show against England. Scottish rugby is very close to Ground Zero.




10

Brigandaca,

San Diego 10/02/2008 03:37:00
That performance was truly awful - I didn't think we could be worse than against France in the 2nd half but WE WERE ONLY IN THE WELSH 22 TWICE IN THE WHOLE F##KING GAME!!!

Seriously, reconstruction job required on the whole team (Blair aside). Parks must go, we will NEVER score tries with him at 10. Henderson will have as many caps as Jim Renwick if he is picked again - that can't be right. De Luca - oh dear, is it better to persist and hope he finally catches a ball or drop him?

Beattie into the back row, White in the 2nd and Lloyd into the front. Evans on the wing, Lamont back at 15 (hopefully fit). We need to pick every strike runner we have and hope.

PANIC BUTTON PRESSED!
11

Desert Hawk,

Abu Dhabi 10/02/2008 04:21:07
Having spent a fortune to fly home for the France game then had to sit in the pub amongst approximately 20 Welshmen last night, what are we playing at? Continual basic errors, no inventiveness and no passion. Hines stupidity should have cost us dearly. I think I will save my money and only fly home to watch my 15 year old's school side play. At least they try.
12

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 10/02/2008 06:22:14
The saddest thing for me is that I realised last night when I was watching the game that I don't actually CARE anymore. I used to get animated, frustrated, excited and passionate but it's all gone now. It's just the same old story over and over again. Do they practice chip kicking away possession and into the oppositions hands on the training ground?? Keep the ball in hand, recycle it (without losing it) and out "basics" the opposition. It's not rocket science and our players are capable of doing it but something happens to their brains when they get on the pitch. Rip up any game plan. Go out and play. Get the farking passion back. Yours in apathy.
13

Media 1,

cape town 10/02/2008 07:13:39
This is a very good Welsh side, we know that, they have already won at Twickenham this season! Scotland did well, I thought it should have been more, but they did oo in my eyes.
Scotland have lost to two really good sides, and will probably lose to Ireland and England as well, but if they can beat Italy all will not be lost.
Scotland are not a rugby nation, so it is important that the fans support them for what they are, and not want they wish they could be.
14

lush,

10/02/2008 07:21:49
Scotland were terrible...no excuses! No attacking ability in the backs (as usual!) our only ray of light was Paterson and his awesome kicking(as per). The forwards were slow and lazy!!! What happened to rucking over the ball and backing up the attacking player! I've been coached by Franky Hadden at Merchy and its a disgrace to see a Scotland team play that badly in the forwards! The lot of them should be ashamed of themselves! The sad thing is they'll all be having a beer too many tomo in Simon Taylors bar in Hanover street tomo!
15

Dunger,

Doon Sooth 10/02/2008 07:25:29
Is there not anyone better in Scottish rugby than Dan "Aw talk and nae action" Parks, Heidbutt Henderson and De "I love tae drop the baw" Luca?

All I've heard/read aboot before this 2008 campaign got underway was how Scotland had a real chance this year and how they were gonna do this and that. De Luca is rare for Edinburgh, Darks is even mair rare for Glasgow, etc.

Until the 3 mentioned are replaced with folk who can create a chance, break the line, catch a ball and distribute players into space then Scotland areny going anywhere fast. It's that simple.

Maybe Scotland is going through a dry patch now regards those 3 positions. If that is the best we have got, then we gotta wake up smell the Scottish Cheddar and say - "Would you like tae eat ma porridge today with a Wooden Spoon?"

Honestly, living down South and having tae watch this poor stuff oan the TV is murder and the fact every team we play against has lady luck sitting oan their shoulder isny helping matters either.

Nuff said.
16

inoui,

Bordeaux 10/02/2008 07:54:26
Worst I've seen Scotland! Made a poor Welsh performance look good.
17

Media 1,

cape town 10/02/2008 08:01:55
I think many of you are being unfair! You sound like the English media when they slam England for not performing to THEIR standards!
The result was disappointing because Scotland lost, but the performance was the best you could have hoped for from a side who dont have the tools to overcome sides like Wales and France(there will be exceptions)
The Welsh live rugby, the French have one of the most exciting leagues in the world, there is a few Springbks and All blacks playing in France. Scotland is a mediocre football nation, and that is the game most followed and most played, rugby is not! So cmon, get behind the team and applaud them, because yesterday they delivered all of their potential and managed to avoid a total drubbing!
18

Mcsense,

Edinburgh 10/02/2008 08:50:22
What a shambles, Blair, Barclay and Paterson ( for his kicking and that double tackle on the retreating Welshmen) are the only ones worthy of selection for a primary school team let alone a professional national team. The union from hell or Glasgow of Parks and Henderson has to be eliminated. Henderson trots along with the ball in one hand so he can't possible pas the thing so he goes to ground with it where its given up to the opposition No9's girlfriend. Strokosh must come in! heres a back row to ponder,6, Strokosh,7 Barclay,8, White We need to do something a little different running hard, passing to hand in spaceand last but not least tackle like your excavating for the opponents spine!
#20 We are not slamming them for not performing to our standards but to the standards that they themselves have set
19

Scunner,

Ellon 10/02/2008 08:56:07
Hadden must go! No tries again. Don't mind losing but we have hardly scored any tries since Hadden was in charge and we look set for the wooden spoon again. Time for change - Hadden must go!!
20

weewillie,

kilmore 10/02/2008 08:57:25
Too sick to comment.
21

Mackie,

Edinburgh Castle Rock 10/02/2008 08:59:04
Blah, blah, blah.
Over-rated bunch who are lucky to be playing the likes of France and, dare I say it, Engerlund.
More likely they should play in a second division with the likes of Italy, Spain, Portugal etc. etc.
Feel sorry for the glum faces in Murrayfields silent stands who constantly fork out some serious dosh for what is now clearly to be seen as a second rate product.
More money than sense some people!
22

Phil C,

10/02/2008 09:03:17
Media 1. Why is it that everything you say on anything is unadulterated nonsense, whether you're spouting from Stockbridge or Capetown? Stick to watching the Jambos for cheap thrills and a good laugh. You could also do worse than watching South Africa play rugby and keep your silly comments about Scotland to yourself. You're obviously an Englishman at heart anyway!

Your TV pictures must be different from ours. Scotland have been as poor as I can remember. The lack of basic skills is there for all to see. I'm ashamed that we're trying to play the English 'strangle and kick' game, relying on Paterson's boot where they had Johnny. There is no reason why we should be inferior to France or Wales, despite their passion. They're both good but we should be too! Haddock is a haddie. The World Cup aberration was put down to professionalism and Hadden somehow stayed on!! Roll on the England game when we can get a good sleep for 80 minutes, watching the two most boring sides in world rugby!
23

leemagee,

Perth, Australia 10/02/2008 09:12:51
The last time Scotland scored good tries against a good opposition was the WC warm up game against Ireland. Guess who played 10??? Chris Paterson. Then, as soon as the WC starts, Hadden goes back to Parks. Hadden you are an idiot!!!!
Parks must go, R.Lamont needs to play on the wing, A Strokosch needs to be playing seen as he was the best player in the premiership last month.
Ben Cairns should be 15 and T.Evans should be playing 11.
24

Media 1,

cape town 10/02/2008 09:15:01
Phil C

Away! Please refrain from spouting your nonsense in this regard. I am a Springbok fan, I follow their every move, but I accept that we will not win every game. The Springboks receive criticism, as do the All Black's, the Aussies and the English, but that critcism is justified because the game in these nations is massive, and the expectations high! In Scotland, the expectations are also high, but they need to be put into context. Scotland are not The Boks or the All Blacks, they never will be! Scotland lost to Wales at the Millenium stadium a week after the same Welsh team beat England at Twickenham, what did you think was going to happen yesterday?
Get real, and get behind your team. Scotland did as well as they could do yesterday and that is the bottom line.
25

Johnnyboy-exile,

The big smoke 10/02/2008 09:22:37
Tackle . . . tackle . . . tackle . . . . In both performances now, one of the things I see glaringly is that the lads seem to have forgotten about tackling(and just about every other basic as well like passing in front of the man coming onto the ball, catching the damned thing etc etc). They let the opposition come onto them without closing on them, to close down the space and the oppo's options, forces the oppo into errors with the pressure, and generally gives them less time to execute, but most of all . . . bloody "hit" the oppo with some text book tackling. These blokes should be sent back to "basics school" and re-learn the fundamentals of rugby. I agree with some of the comments . . over-drilled, too much nonsense going on in the game-plan department. I despair, I really despair!
26

Phil C,

10/02/2008 09:22:51
#26 leemagee. Spot on!
#27 Media 1. More nonsense!
27

,

10/02/2008 09:25:54
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Reason:
28

Media 1,

cape town 10/02/2008 09:43:23
Funny isnt it?
How the Scots can absolutely slate the English media for slagging off their national team, yet they will behave in the same manner when discussing their own team!
Scots fans are no different to the English media!
Scotland did as well as they could have yesterday! Did anyone actually think they were going to win? And if you did, then you only have yourself to blame.
29

MBR,

10/02/2008 09:45:06
The team were awful in all facets and how can supporters take heart from a coach who not only admits his team "are not there to entertain" but who apparently cannot even send them onto the pitch with a winning gameplan/mindset. Scottish rugby really feels flat at the moment as many made the mistake of thinking that this team could challenge for the title but we have gone backwards at a rate since 2006, it was very sad to be at a full yet almost silent Murrayfield last Sunday and watch rugby being taken back to the dark ages (whist being royally entertained by the French bands) and yet again there was nothing to cheer about on Sunday. Scotland are coached by a dogmatic man who cannot or will not adapt and react to games and who palpably does not inspire; the defence has been woeful thus far and seeing Welsh backs run rings around forwards standing in the backs was just painful; lastly, why are the forwards being coached by someone who (a) could never prop anyway and (b) has not changed the fatally flawed "pick and drive" tactics for 2 seasons now! I would not normally simply blame the coaches but the group of players they have to choose from (apart from the available choice at centre) are actually quite good and unfortunately it is the coaches' role to get them to gel...and entertain
30

Dave58,

Aberdeen 10/02/2008 09:50:48
Sadly, the Scotland game plan appeared to be "damage limitation" from the outset. OK we didnt get the rub of the green, but we appear to lack any confidence in our own ability and any collective direction going forward with the ball in hand, percentage Rugby is not good enough at this level. Defensively, we did compete reasonably well, but we need to put pressure on opposition defences to score tries.
Why do good, confident and competent players perform so abjectly in this Scotland team (Blair, Barclay and Hogg excepted)?
Having defended FH in the past I think it is now time to change the coaching regime. There is something fundamental wrong with the environment surrounding the Scotland team, two Six Nations matches and not even a sniff of a try! Gatland has taken Wales from zero - hero using the same tools and we now have to consider a change.

Pual Ackford wrote in the Telegraph:-
"As for Scotland? Well, they were drab, dire, desperate and dysfunctional. They again failed to find any recognisable shape or rhythm to their rugby and, were it not for Paterson's accuracy, they would have suffered a serious hiding. As it was, at no point in the game did they look like troubling Wales."

To me, this is an accurate assessment that sadly I cant criticise. Is this description of a Scotland Rugby Team acceptable to the Scottish Rugby public? It's not for me!

Dave (gutted)
Aberdeen
31

Phil C,

10/02/2008 09:52:18
#31 Media 1
When did Scots slate the English media for slagging off their team? I can only remember Scots slating the English media for 'pumping up' their boring and over-achieving team!
32

Media 1,

cape town 10/02/2008 09:56:01
Phil C

You hit the nail on the head!
The English media pump up their team. And now the Scottish fans are doing the same.
33

calum,

10/02/2008 09:56:28
What an embarassing shambles. Frank, you're a nice fella but you'll have to go. No plan, no pride, no hope.
I'll be at the Ireland, England and Italy games and I'm confident that we may not score a try in any of these games. Gatland is perfectly correct in his assessment of Scotland, we're dire.
Serious surgery needed at Murrayfield.
34

Media 1,

cape town 10/02/2008 09:58:58
The Laird

Ok then Mr Rugby!
Tell us what you expected yesterday! Did you really think that Scotland were going to win? Did you think that Scotland were anywhere near playing the sort of rugby that could beat Wales?
Cmon, get real! Scotland will put it together once every 6 or 7 years and play above ther potential, and then it will be back to being average, because when it comes to rugby, Scotland are average!
35

Big Smoke,

10/02/2008 10:02:38
Bring in Lineen and Robinson NOW and save some pride for the nation!
36

Malky Loudon,

Edinburgh/Newcastle 10/02/2008 10:18:56
Mike Blair: outstanding. Should have started for the Lions in the last series; should be there for the first test in South Africa.

37

THE DREADED SILVER CROC,

Chateau Croc, Mont Revard, Haute Savoie, France 10/02/2008 10:35:12
Colin of Bearsden was obviously just home after a hard night on the Buckfast up there in north Glesca! The wretched little fellow clearly also has such a mammoth persecution complex that he would NEVER allow the facts to get in the way of a good balls-out rant......

Sure, shxt happens from time to time - but that has a habit of evening out over the piece.

Fact remains that with such a lack of composure in attack, no cutting edge, an obvious lack of fitness and little shape in defence Scotland's uninspiring, ineffective coaching, questionable selection policies and woeful on-field performances there simply must be changes throughout playing AND back-up squad & selections.

Brigadier Mungo, if not Johnny Rotten from Mid Mar would doubtless have a few suggestions!
38

Silence of the Yams,

10/02/2008 10:54:49
Another wooden spoon beckons.
39

Fraser Bennett,

Murrayfield 10/02/2008 10:57:01
Is Iain Morrison online at the moment? It said in this morning's Scotland on Sunday that he would be at 11am

I too am in the depths of despair at yesterday's abject performance.
40

Thane of Kirkcaldy,

Dancing in the Streets of Raith 10/02/2008 10:58:07
FAO Frank Hadden
I spend a fortune each year to watch Scotland play home and away. What we have witnessed in the last two outings has been a total bloody shambles and embarassment. My thoughts are as follows :
1. Parks has seen his last Scotland squad ( not negotiable !) Replace with Chris Paterson immediately with a young understudy on the bench for the future, be it Godman, David Blair etc.
2. Get a couple of athletic, dynamic second rowers who are match fit ( unlike Hines yesterday who was ill by his own admission in this paper today, Hamilton is a stodgy big lump )Try Kellock and McLeod for example.
3.Ditto hooker.Start Fergus Thomson.
4. Barclay, Strokosch and Hoggy in the back row. Sorry Jason but you're toast ( and you are not a second row candidate either!!)
5. Get additional young blood into the backline e.g. Cairns and leave De Luca at 13.
5. Consign this 'pick and go' obsession to the garbage bin. It does not work and is cringeworthy to witness.
6. Forget about structured game plans. Tell the team to go out with oceans of 'fire in their bellies' to die for their country and play the game as they see it in front of them.Play positive rugby - not the Battle of Ypres !!!
We might still lose but at least we will be doing the right things for the development of Scottish rugby and our national pride.
If Mr Hadden cannot see sense in any of my thoughts then I believe he should resign today and take Graham and Tatty ( sadly ) along with him.
41

Iain Robert Morrison,

Scotland 10/02/2008 10:58:57
Good morning all.

I trust that you are feeling a little fresher than me after I had to get up at 5.30 this morning to catch the first plane back to Glasgow. Ouch. My only consolation was that Derek Stark looked worse than I did.

Desperately disappointing performance by Scotland in Wales. I do not believe that this team is playing to potential. Remember this is the same side that were six point losers to Argentina, the third best country in the World Cup. Scotland did not deserve to win that quarterfinal but had they done so it would not have been wholly undeserved. The Scots have gone backwards over the last few weeks while other sides, Wales especially, have kicked on.

Any thoughts on what Frank does to stop the rot?

Iain Morrison.
42

Steve Evans,

Malta 10/02/2008 11:05:52
I don't think we were up to giving you a rout either, although Scotland were lucky to have the talented Paterson to put points on the board. Despite the deputed try Shain Williams is a heck of a player.I think Scotlands visit to Ireland must be more of a concern to the travelling fans.Hard Luck.
43

Iain Robert Morrison,

10/02/2008 11:08:09
Here's my team to beat Ireland:
R Lamont
T Evans
N De Luca
A Henderson
S Webster

C Paterson
M Blair

A Jacobsen
R Ford
E Murray
N Hines
A Kellock
K Brown
J Barclay
A Hogg
44

Mutt,

Close to the fence but not on it.... 10/02/2008 11:09:12
#21

On which bizarre world would you have Jason White playing No8?

Especially when a growing number of people are saying he should be moved out of the back row!

That case was certainly made when Hogg tok over from him yesterday.

Backrow for Ireland
6 Strokosh/Brown
7 Barclay
8 Hogg (even if Taylor is recovered, he's had no game time)
45

Iain Robert Morrison,

10/02/2008 11:13:26
# 21 did say that we must do "something different" and Jason at 8 is certainly that.
White suffered a bad concussion yesterday and could not even remeber how or when or where it had happened.
46

Iain Robert Morrison,

10/02/2008 11:17:15
I spoke to Rory Lamont yesterday and he said that eh should be fit for the Sharks this coming weekend. I am not sure how much time Simon Danielli has spent in the midfield or are you suggesting shuffling the deck somehow?
47

Thane of Kirkcaldy,

Dancing in the Streets of Raith 10/02/2008 11:23:45
#50
Danielli !!!!! Tokyo Rose, I think you,ve been on the sake again my dear.
48

Thane of Kirkcaldy,

Dancing in the Streets of Raith 10/02/2008 11:40:58
#53
You might not mind Danielli at centre but the chances are I suspect that you will not have invested large amounts of time and money following Scotland unlike some of us to witness the consequences !!
49

jdships,

Edinburgh 10/02/2008 11:46:01
Have not found it easy to post a response this morning as once again Scotland failed to carry out the basic requiremnts of a rugby union football team which is hoping to win a game.
There appeared to be a general lack of shape to the side , while the pack seemed obsessed with "Pick & Drive" .
It was soon apparent that this tactic was not productive - where was "Plan B" ?
I would never doubt the player's commitment to the jersey but again where was the leadership ala Keith Wood " Mr Motivator ".
Having now seen five matches I feel that not one country has a top class pack of forwards which makes it all the more galling to watch our performance.

Can't help but feel we are missing something at the coaching level which needs to be addressed plus Hadden's pitiful defence of the indefensible makes me cringe.
Knew him at schoolboy coaching level and always thought that was his forte.
Wooden spoon/whitewash beckons

50

thebigiam,

london 10/02/2008 11:48:58
No 47 Quite agree we need a change at 10. Parks may be the best kicker from hand in world rugby, as Hadden says, but he isn't playing like it at the moment. And because he never runs, he makes it too easy for the defence, and too hard for the backline to find space. On the rare occasions he doesn't kick possession away. Or get charged down.

Is Paterson the right man at 10 though? He's not had much game time there, and we've tried it before without him being an unequivical success. Is Godman ready to step up?

Apart from that question, I like the look of your team. Though Strokosh must consider himself the most unlucky player to be born when he was!

I also hope that whatever the result and performance, Hadden conducts himself with a bit more grace. We were hammered yesterday, and an iffy TMO decision should be the least of his problems.
51

Iain Robert Morrison,

10/02/2008 11:49:08
Interesting to note that Scott Hastings said something similar to your comment about a lack of shape in his column for us. He couldn't see what Scotland were attempting to do. There was no pattern in attack. No attempt to pull the opposition out of shape. Too little trickery and yet one set move, the inside pass to Ally Hogg, split the Welsh defence wide apart. More please!
52

Iain Robert Morrison,

10/02/2008 12:00:11
thebigjam,
I agree with your last sentiments re Hadden who latches onto almost any excuse except the man in the mirror. I still think he can turn this team around but he needs to make changes. He has two weeks grace and he will get some key players back in time for Dublin---especially Rory Lamont. A feisty performance against the Irish and Hadden could be all smiles again. At it is he looks like his head might explode at any moment.
53

maroon to the core,

Falkirk 10/02/2008 12:00:28
We have sold out mobility for bulk and even the bulk doesn't seem to count for us when we have the weight advantage. Our guys have had inventiveness trained out of them at, International level. The players are too busy thinking about field position and what they need to do at the next breakdown. Hadden does not have enough experience with a top winning team therefore does not know what it takes to win real games ( not just warm up games against Ireland). Dont forget all the players that are available to him are, almost to a man, first picks for top clubs so they must be pretty good individuals.
The lack of passion in both games so far is very sad. Where has the Scottish, never say die attitude, gone?

Gatland has picked 13 players from a team that sit 3rd bottom of the Magners league and he has given them licence to play rugby, while ensuring that they also have the basic techniques to play their positions. I have been around Scottish rugby long enough to know that our guys do posses the same attributes but since the days of Telford and McGeechen we have never had the right leader.
If we dont have the right Scottish coach then we should bite the bullet and get a foreign coach.Granted Matt Williams was a plum but who in real rugby circles would have picked him anyway.
The search may not be to difficult, I believe there is a guy in Edinburgh who helped coach a winning world cup winning team and has made a big impact with the Gunners. Oh forgot he is English so we cant accept that he may have something we really need.
Rant over
54

Iain Robert Morrison,

10/02/2008 12:05:20
Honestly I dunno if they have a pre-match medical? I suspect Nathan admitted he was feeling ropey but in light of everything he opted to start. At least it explains why Frank took him off when he did.
55

A.FAN,

Hamilton 10/02/2008 12:09:01
Made a good decision yesterday. Didn,t watch the 'GAME'. Saw instead a super under 18s game between Dumfries and Dalziel. Well refereed,lots of mistakes yes, but lots of good rugby and 100% endeavour.
Pity I have tickets for Murrayfield and Rome!
56

thebigiam,

london 10/02/2008 12:12:02
#60 - Good point re pack. Even in the scrum, I felt the Scots couldn't make their weight tell. And in the loose, I don't know if it was body positions, or lack of numbers, but we could barely secure our own ball, and couldn't slow down Wales ball at all.

On the positive side, I see Donnie McFadgen is on his way back. He was a storming No 7 - I remember him giving George Smith a hard time against Australia - and if he can get properly fit, that could be good news for next year and beyond...
57

Westend Warrior,

10/02/2008 12:24:29
We need to use the remaining fixtures to blood these younger, fresher and hungrier players like Strockosh, Cairns Low and especially Thom Evans who has waited far too long to be included.

Frank needs to bring them in now or walk away. Its too late for the same old excuses.
58

MBR,

10/02/2008 12:28:10
15: Southwell
14: Evans
13: De Luca
12: Henderson (only because there seems to be no one else)
11: Danielli

10: Paterson
9: Blair

8: Hogg
7: Barclay
6: Strokosh/Brown

5: Kellock
4: Hines

3: Murray
2: Thomson
1: Jacobsen

Reps: Brown/Strokosh, White, Lawson, Godman, Low, Lamont, Ford
59

,

10/02/2008 12:43:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
60

thebigiam,

london 10/02/2008 12:51:00
I notice a few people are dropping Jason White from their sides - not unreasonable given his form.

But who would be the new captain? Are there any natural leaders kicking about? Someone to galvanise players during the match?
61

cjandy,

selkirk 10/02/2008 12:51:59
Hadden decreed when Patterson moved up from 19s to 21s that he would never make a stand-off because he couldn't run a back division and Frank being Frank has persevered with this notion. Switching Patterson to stand off won't in itself solve the problem but if you read Patterson's comments about playing to win and not to avoid defeat, you'll get a clue about why he needs to be given a run there. However that needs to be under a coaching team that just doesn't talk disingenuously about strike runners and a more expansive game but can actually design and deliver a front foot game plan.
Ironically, Steve Bates best understood the Scottish tradition and rugby style and developed a game plan around creating space through constantly moving the targets, quick hit rucks, sharp decision making around off loading or hitting up, terrier like tackling and generally maintaining high intensity and pressure. Unfortunately, the SRU conspired to deny him the necessary resources at Borders.
So if bringing Patterson in at 10 won’t cure our ills, Mr Bates is just down the road at Newcastle.
62

Thane of Kirkcaldy,

Dancing in the Streets of Raith 10/02/2008 12:58:26
#69
Hoggy.
63

balvennie999,

edinburgh 10/02/2008 13:13:36
The problem is one of lack of creativity in the backs and lack of awareness of space by everyone in general. This starts in school and junior club rugby. It is far too easy for big boys to run through smaller ones. These smaller ones often have more skill but get neglected by coaches who only want to win, not develop skills. Better matching of boys by size and weight would be a start not by school class. It is ridiculous that P7 plays P7 etc as there will be a difference in shape and size, a difference which stays until 16/17 years of age. Smaller boys get beaten up and are lost while bigger boys never develop the skills needed. Just look at the way Scotland U20 were taken apart on Friday by their age group peers who had pace and rugby awareness in spades. Scotland will never be a competent rugby nation until this glaring abuse of potential talent is rectified by a properly structured and cohesive junior and sclools coaching system is in place. This must begin by ensuring children are age and weight matched until puberty is completed and that there is reward for beating a man with guile rather than brute force.
64

KD,

10/02/2008 13:45:30
I was a big fan of Frank's for a while but unfortunately many questions are starting to be asked.

Andy Robinson as next Scotland manager anyone?
65

saveScottishrugby,

unknown 10/02/2008 13:53:07
www.savescottishrugby.com

www.themurrayfieldexperience.com
66

W.Robertson,

10/02/2008 14:39:19
15: Southwell
14: R Lamont
13: De Luca
12: Henderson
11: Danielli

10: Paterson
9: Blair

8: Hogg
7: Barclay
6: Strokosh/Brown

5: Kellock
4: Hines

3: Murray
2: Thomson
1: Jacobsen

Subs: Brown/Strokosh, White, Lawson, Parks, Low, Walker, Ford

I have as much disapproval with Lamont at 15 as I do Parks at 10. How many chances does Lamont get to make a mess at Fullback? Give him free reign on the wing! (there's less to think about and he can focus on what he does best, thinking about his own game and running) He doesn't play on the wing at Sale for no reason. And there's no much more I can add about Parks.
67

Big Scott,

10/02/2008 14:55:42
Agreed! We need to use Lamont on the wing, Patterson at 10 (as per the whole nation), White to the bench, give De Luca one more chance, if he gets over whelmed with stage fright again, then we need another 13 until De Luca gains his confidence at International level and Frank needs to find a new job!


68

pwd,

Hawick 10/02/2008 17:22:40
* 60
"We have sold out mobility for bulk and even the bulk doesn't seem to count for us when we have the weight advantage."
Yes! I agree. Our backs are ponderous to put it kindly. Perhaps less time sepent training to be weightlifters and more time spent practising basic rugby skills would pay a few dividends.
69

inoui,

Bordeaux 10/02/2008 18:54:34
Could England be Scotland's only chance of escaping the cuillere en bois?
70

tubster,

10/02/2008 19:45:19
Awful, just awful. The first time in years I've been embarrassed by the performance.

As ever, the focus is on Parks - fair shout, he's not playing well. Paterson should get his chance. But we should really save our ire for the forwards, who continually lost the ball yesterday. How many times are we going to go through this before we find an 8 who will take the ball in and recycle it, not give it away. The best backs in the world couldn't win a game while the ball keeps being given away in front of them.

I think the issue is now in their heads: they don't believe they are any good, and they're terrified of failing again. You could see it from the first minute, when the ball went loose from the lineout and nobody seemed to know what to do, or whose job it was. From then onwards mistakes were feeding on mistakes, and messing with their heads more and more.

Mike Blair played well, Ally Hogg seemed to get things going when he came on. Jacobson looked sharp. Er, that's about it.

Changes? Those that have lost confidence need to go, for their own sake as much as ours: White, Hamilton, maybe Ross Ford. In the backs, CP in for Parks, de Luca out certainly. Bring in some who are performing well: Strokosh for certain. Ally Hogg as skipper. Centres will be the tough part. Those calling for Danielli or Dewey are daft.

But I come back to where I started: it begins and ends with ball rentention. And on this, for the best part of a year, we've been really poor.
71

Dorfl,

South 10/02/2008 19:45:38
Inoui - I doubt it. England are a very good outfit that is misfiring under Ashton. They up their game just as we do when the Calcutta cup comes up. If needs be they'll throw their game plan away and play the game in front of them. Of course if we do the same then all bets are off!
72

Alain Paddy d'Poontangue l'Honky-Tonque O'Rolland,

10/02/2008 20:00:22
#79 no.
SHAMELESS, it's always tempting to rise to your mindless proddings, but seriously, it's a sad life and I do try to sympathise with your predicament.

It must be hard for you to wake every day in a bedsit devoid of long since departed spouse and kids, with that persistent, dull hangover, the faint reek of stale alcohol on your breath as you haul yourself through the cold, melancholy midden of empty vodka bottles, takeaway packaging and vermin droppings that constitutes your dwelling so you can fill the recycler with the detritus from the previous night's indulgence.

The self-loathing as you haul yourself into your damp, spartan bathroom and stare at your own tired, glazed, bloodshot, jowly hang-dog features in the mirror must be almost unbearable.

If you find contributing somehow cathartic then I'm glad about that.

I spent yesterday evening in the pub, surrounded by my tenants who are both proud and lucky to live on my land, hence the unusual slowness of my response - please accept my apologies.
73

Borders Realist.,

Borders 10/02/2008 20:29:59
I read these comments all the time without much to say however the time has come to give my opinion for what its worth.Coaching staff are an easy target and how Mr Hadden presents himself in the media does no favours but the crux of our problem is the lack of genuine Test class players in this country.
Besides Blair we have no real stand outs on the Test stage and we will be no different with any combination of available players.We do well to be competitive ish.
My only real complaint is that we still have foreigners playing for our country,eg Parks and Hines and that will never sit well with a proud scot.
With no real creativity behind the scrum then it is easy to see where the tactics come from and until we can produce real Test Standard outside backs then we will continue to struggle regardless of who the head Coach is.The key to that of course is how we resource and develop the grassroots of the game which compared to other Rugby nations is pretty neglected.
74

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 10/02/2008 20:34:30
Just back after a very hospitable weekend in Cardiff. Was asked how many bad bounces of ball our Manager will blame this defeat on - tell me he's not used it again as the reason for defeat.

Hadden has some decent players at his disposal, the Welsh under a determined and knowledgable manager have been transformed - are we going to have the SRU keep Hadden on as long as Williams when underachieving?
75

Westcoaster,

perth 10/02/2008 20:39:52
"a huge respect for tait and graham!" what have either of those two jokers don't for scottish rugby outside of work with the national side in the last 2 years! Nothing. Noses in the troff. They must be laughing there heads off being fulltime employed for 10 weeks work at 3 hours a day!

If they had spent as much time learning how to catch as they had lifting weights we might of had some skilled players as opposed to making the crap ones we already had..... bigger with crap hands.
76

Dorfl,

South 10/02/2008 20:54:23
85# Tait was a great player and did deliver a massively better defence so let's give him some slack. Graham - well he put in a few performances in the shirt. Hadden...coached a school team to some wins and presided over an averagely performing pro side - so lets drop him and see what any replacement does in deciding whether to keep Tait/Graham. 83# this lot have shown the occasional flash of ability; I rate quite a few of the guys playing, we're simply not seeing what they can do because it's such a mess out there.
77

barbour,

Vaasa 10/02/2008 21:01:06
England just beat Italy,but did indeed beat them...just.
But Wales 30,Scotland 15,priceless,absolutely PRICELESS.Could have been better though had the Taffs not felt sorry for a group of non-entities.30-15 wonderful set of numbers,30-15,30-15,30-15,can't get them out of my head.Sad jock B******s.
78

Dan Dare & the Mekon (we're frae ooter space, ken),

Ooter space - awa up near Mid Mar, ken 10/02/2008 21:21:07
Johnny Rotgut - you naughty old bon viveur! Good old Shameless or some other interesting and powerful personality must have touched a raw nerve. And what a nerve, to be sure.... You knicker-twisted little prat, Alain Ratface!

Just to clarify matters, I have it on good authority that the DSC and his friends never demean themselves (as you have confessed to do at post #82)by entering low spit and sawdust public houses, which are of course there to serve the great unwashed. Oh well, it takes all sorts, as the Brigadier and Sir Rastus were saying the other day!

By the way, according to the fabulously wealthy and successful DSC - if you want to catch up with the handsome, powerful, athletic Shameless, you'll probably find him on track at the Kelvin Hall next Saturday, going for gold..... Your play, JohnnyPhartblocks. But you'll never catch the DSC.
79

jdships,

Edinburgh 10/02/2008 21:25:58
83 Borders Realist

Coaching staff are an easy target and how Mr Hadden presents himself in the media does no favours but the crux of our problem is the lack of genuine Test class players in this country.

Agree with that in principle .
However surely "National Team" coaches should be able to work with players to
Eliminate unforced errors .
Give them a "plan B2 to change to
Instil a basic hard graft ethic.

I was lucky enough to play in NZ/ Australia and top of the list was , even to 20/25 year olds , teaching/coaching how to do the basic things properly

Hadden's forte is coaching schoolboys - end of
80

Alain Paddy d'Poontangue l'Honky-Tonque O'Rolland,

10/02/2008 21:32:00
Ha ha DAN DARE, I would like to catch up with him, he's absolutely hysterical and the prime reason for contributing to this otherwise dull state of affairs.

Sadly I can't be in Glasgow next week though. Some other time perhaps?
81

no8 uber alles,

edinburgh 10/02/2008 21:51:29
team v ireland

15. strokosch
14. macleod
13. kerr
12. thomson
11. kellock
10. paterson
9. blair
8. hogg
7. barclay
6. brown
5. hamilton
4. hines
3. murray
2. ford
1. jacobsen

that should solve the problem about our backs that can't pass, tackle or run. with this team if we do get into the opposition 22 we have almost two line outs to choose from so the lighter guys can line up in their half. as we never move the ball beyond 10/12 i think i have covered all bases. 13 aggressive forwards and the outstanding blair plus paterson to kick the points.....
82

Borders Realist.,

Borders 10/02/2008 21:52:07
89 jdships.
Work ethic? I dont doubt the players are working very very hard both on the training field and in the matches.
Unforced errors in the quantities that we see generally come from players who are out of their depth.(we have many)and who have not had the basics hammered home from an early age.
Plan B comes very late in the game because we dont have the personel to go to it any sooner??

83

Dan Dare & the Mekon (we're frae ooter space, ken),

Ooter space... up, up and away.... 10/02/2008 22:03:11
OK, Rotten #92 - some other time. Might be a hoot (unlike the sad drivel permeating this ghastly website) to exchange pleasantries in person. On the other hand...! Oh, shut mah mouth.

So - keep an eye on the Highland Games circuit around your patch, just in case the mad tribe of complex many-faceted characters manages to slip in a visit or two to the odd north-east event. Not normally on the schedule, but see below Jammy Dodger>>>>

The DSC, Shameless, Chantilly Lace, the Big Bopper, Dan Dare, King Tut, Queen Nefertiti, Brigadier "Spiffer" Bufton-Tufton, Sir Rastus Dicklong-Dongler, Jeep Cherokee, FatBob the Count (don't forget the "o"!) of Murrayfield & the wonderful, fragrant and ineffably delectable (so she says!) Mrs Croc, etc normally seek to make a regal entrance at the Braemar Highland Gathering towards the end of the HG season first weekend in September where if fitness prevails, all may be revealed on track..........

Or not, as the case may be. It certainly was last year, for all to see - as one might detect from the entry list / results. Sprints, you understand! All things considered, of course.

Conundrum. Humdrum Haddock wouldn't understand. Would anyone?
84

Kenm88,

Edinburgh 11/02/2008 01:03:00
In these days of no centres and surplus back-row forwards, I think to myself how would a centre combination of Strokosch and Hoggy look (if they can't command a place in the first choice back-row) - pace, handling, tackling - aren't the two positions more inter-changeable than we first assume?
85

inoui,

Bordeaux 11/02/2008 07:45:28
Paterson at No 10!
86

EDMOND DANTES - COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO,

Chateau d'If 11/02/2008 18:20:56
Zzzzzz...... Where the heck is Johnny Rotten?
87

,

17/02/2008 21:02:52
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