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Scotland 15 - 9 England: Scots defy odds to kick old foes into touch

Paterson and Parks bring their boots to seal a famous Calcutta Cup victory

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Published Date: 09 March 2008
SCOTLAND got a monkey off their back, put any number of demons to the sword and, in doing so, they proved that history really does repeat itself. Two years ago in the rain Chris Paterson kicked five penalties and Dan Parks dropped a goal to ensure a dramatic against-the-odds-win over England.
Yesterday the same two men combined to kick five penalties, four to Paterson and one to Parks, which proved enough in the wet and windy conditions for another famous victory over the self same foe. Scotland have now won three of their last five match
es against the Auld Enemy at Murrayfield and the sight of England's icon Jonny Wilkinson trudging off the field with ten minutes of the match remaining spoke volumes for the collective collapse of England's resolve.

There is something about the white shirts that brings out the best in this squad of players. After defending like traffic cops all season, the Scots suddenly formed an impassible barrier and did to England what Ashton's men had done to France a fortnight ago. It was an immense effort and the rewards were equally substantial: self-respect.

Still, at the risk of raining on the Scots' parade, the fans might be wondering why their heroes waited until the fourth match of the championship to show their true colours. There are still plenty of questions that surround this Scotland squad but there is no question they raise their game when England come to town.

If there was a key point yesterday it came around the 20 minutes mark when the English got the Scots in a vice and twisted the screw. Twice the visitors were awarded eminently kickable penalties and twice Wilkinson stuck the ball in the corner for an attacking lineout. The Scots defence was placed under huge pressure by the muscular English forwards but, heartened by one teeth-rattling tackle by Euan Murray, the Scots held out. Wilkinson wisely took three points when they were next on offer but one miserly penalty was scant reward for all of England's efforts and the self-belief, at first a trickle, flooded back into the blue jerseys from that moment onwards.

The only backs on the Scotland subs bench were a pair of halfbacks so it was inevitable that a winger in Rory Lamont got himself injured early on. Iain Balshaw gave chase to a speculative clearance kick and the covering Lamont went to ground where his head met the Englishman's knee with sickening clunk. It took a long time before the medics moved the prone figure from the field and he was taken to hospital, having regained consciousness.

Thanks to Hadden's bench, this one injury meant a major readjustment of the team. Paterson went to the left wing with Nikki Walker swapping to the right and Dan Parks came on at flyhalf where he reminded everyone why he'd been dropped in the first place.

Scotland had got off to a cracking start thanks to an eighth-minute Paterson penalty although some credit must go to the English who coughed up four penalties in the first ten minutes. One of these Paterson kicked to the corner and the next he slotted through the posts. Simple stuff. Andrew Sheridan occasionally put pressure on the Scottish scrum but when that happened Simon Taylor did exactly what he was paid for and got his team on the front foot. The big No.8 played a crucial part in yesterday's outcome; he was hugely influential in both defence and attack and only his return to the side proved just how much Scotland had been missing him.

A downpour of Biblical proportions ahead of the kick off meant it wasn't a match for the purists, with both flyhalfs hoisting speculative up and unders in the absence of anything better to do. While Southwell spilled the first of those the remainder were dealt with competently enough to staunch the flow. The Scots cause was also helped when Lesley Vainikolo showed all the handling skills of a Robin Reliant in the wet.

One prolonged bout of aerial ping-pong in the first half only ended when Richard Wigglesworth dropped the ball. Southwell retrieved the loose ball but when it was recycled Walker was turned over in the midfield when the big winger might have been better advised to have moved the ball wide. Towards the end of the first half Wilkinson took a long-range effort at posts which dropped just short while at the other end Paterson added two more penalties to his opening salvo to give the home side a handy 9-3 lead at the break.

The Scots twice extended their lead within minutes of the restart when England were first penalised in the shadow of their own posts for holding on to the ball in a ruck and then when Parks added another long-range effort from all of 47 yards. It seemed to knock the stuffing out of Ashton's men because, when the next up and under came Southwell's way, not one white shirt bothered to chase it down and the fullback had an easy clearance. Luck wasn't going England's way either and when the Scotland fullback ran outside of his 22 to kick the ball it bounced approximately one millimetre inside the try line to gain the Scots a good 50 metres.

Wilkinson grabbed two penalties on 50 and 52 minutes to drag his side to within a converted try of taking the lead but, pinned inside their own half, they never looked like scoring it. Indeed there were no more points for either team and the Scots were happy to run the clock down to claim a thoroughly deserved win.

But while it was scoreless, the final quarter was not entirely pointless because the indomitable figure of Jason White entered the fray from the bench to lay claim to a remarkable third Calcutta Cup triumph of his career. The cheer that met his arrival was dwarfed by the roar that greeted his sacking of Paul Sackey in one bone-crunching tackle that had every Scot out of their seats. That huge hit on the unfortunate winger carried with it all the frustration, hurt and wounded pride that White and, by extension, the rest of this team has been harbouring these last few weeks. It earned a rendition of Flower of Scotland from a delirious crowd and that was no less than it deserved.

Scotland: H Southwell, R Lamont (D Parks 20 min), S Webster, G Morrison, N Walker; C Paterson, D Parks, M Blair (R Lawson 75 min); A Jacobsen (A Dickinson 64 min), R Ford (F Thomson 24 min), E Murray (C Smith 69 min), N Hines, S MacLeod (J White 63 min), A Strokosch, A Hogg (K Brown 71 min), S Taylor.

England: I Balshaw, P Sackey, J Noon, T Flood (M Tait 67 min), L Vainikolo; J Wilkinson, R Wigglesworth; A Sheridan, L Mears (G Chuter 67 min), P Vickery, S Shaw (B Kay 67 mmin) S Borthwick, T Croft, M Lipman (L Narraway 74 min), N Easter.

Scorers: Scotland – Pen: Paterson (4), Parks. England – Pen: Wilkinson (3)

Referee: J Kaplan (S Africa)




Scotland 15 England 9: how they rated at Murrayfield

ENGLAND

Penalties: Wilkinson (3)

15. Iain Balshaw

Gloucester

1

Accident or not, there is simply no excuse for what he did to Rory Lamont. A studs-up tackle has absolutely no part in rugby union and he should be cited and banned for months. Did okay elsewhere, but not forgiven.

14. Paul Sackey

Wasps

Didn't see a lot of the ball in either half, but tackled well enough and made a couple of runs that threatened more than they delivered. For once his undoubted power was not able to be channelled in the right direction.

5

13. Jamie Noon

Newcastle

Did not seem to realise that his clubmate Wilkinson was having a rare off day, otherwise he would have spread the ball wider. Tackled well enough but made very little yardage against his solid opponents.

4

12. Toby Flood

Newcastle

Just could not make the breakthrough against a solid Scottish defence, though he always tackled consistently well and gave less ground away than others. Might have showed more imagination, though.

6

11. Lesley Vainikolo

Gloucester

A couple of serious handling errors in good positions early doors seemed to sap his confidence. One run apart, the volcano remained dormant, thanks to excellent defence by the Scots.

4

10. Jonny Wilkinson

Newcastle

His joy at having become international rugby's highest-ever points scorer will have been tempered by his often poor show. Guess which of those points the BBC will concentrate on?

4

9. Richard Wigglesworth

Sale Sharks

Simply outclassed by Blair who gave the youngster a comprehensive lesson in scrum-half play. To his credit, he kept trying after a couple of early errors, but otherwise poor.

4

1. Andrew Sheridan

Sale Sharks

He's big, he's strong, but occasionally he's daft and gave away a stonewall penalty in front of the posts at a crucial time. He is still England's cornerstone, however.

6

2. Lee Mears

Bath

Early poor throwing was a sign of a nervous performance to come, though he did settle down to a productive game as the match wore on. Was replaced just as he looked to be getting better.

5

3. Phil Vickery

Wasps, captain

Will not be happy at being skipper of an under-achieving side, especially as he did not play an obvious captain's part and was replaced late in the final quarter of a match he'll want to forget.

4

4. Simon Shaw

Wasps

His face as he left the field when substituted said it all. He knew he had underperformed massively, no more so than when conceding a couple of indisciplined penalties. Part of all-round failure.

4

5. Steve Borthwick

Bath

It's not easy to like a player who consistently spoils the ball. Yet it's a big part of his game and he is good at it. Took his lineout share but never really imposed himself in the loose.

4

6. Tom Croft

Leicester

Must have wondered what performance booster Ally Hogg was on as he was constantly beaten to the breakdown by the Scottish back row. But certainly competed and was one of England's few plus points.

6

7. Michael Lipman

Bath

Comprehensively outplayed by Strokosch and colleagues, though he did put in a couple of thumping tackles, especially his enveloping of Morrison in the second half.

5

8. Nick Easter

Harlequins

Gave away a couple of penalties, and was frankly anonymous by his high standards. One of England's more notable failures on a day when the big occasion players didn't turn up at Murrayfield.

4

REPLACEMENTS

16. George Chuter Leicester (for Mears, 67) Helped get England going forward, 6.

17. Matt Stevens Bath (for Vickery, 70)

18. Ben Kay Leicester (for Shaw, 67) Did no better than Shaw, 4.

19. Luke Narraway Gloucester (for Lipman, 74) No time to show, 5.

20. Paul Hodgson London Irish Unused.

21. Mathew Tait Newcastle (for Flood, 66) Could make no real impact, 4.

22. Charlie Hodgson Sale Sharks (for Wilkinson, 71) Made no difference to England's lack of attack, 3.







The full article contains 1887 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 March 2008 11:55 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Six Nations
 
1

AJ Fife,

09/03/2008 02:01:29
Fantastic result for Scotland and I never had any doubts!
2

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 09/03/2008 03:45:57
#2 the Balshaw collision was an accident, anyone can see that. So now that we have beaten England we are a great side and Ha Ha Haddock keeps his job for another 2 years. So more of the same bore fest to look forward to then. Great! In years gone by I would have been really excited by this result but I am afraid I nearly fell asleep watching it last night. Well done to the players but please, please, please start making rugby more watchable.
3

Rolland Butter,

Embra 09/03/2008 04:41:56
What a fantastic result - very well done boys.
Is it possible to buy shares in the Roseburn bar?
Must have taken you a while to cash up in there
last night chaps eh
- when you finally got rid of the last of them.
GO SCOTLAND - YES.
4

Westcoaster,

perth 09/03/2008 06:36:43
2 and 4 you jokers have clearly never played rugby at a decent level. balshaw dove on the ball with a correct body position to gather the ball as an attacking player and recycle the ball correctly it was just an accident.
5

Dunger,

Doon Sooth 09/03/2008 07:22:35
A win is a win and fair play tae the boys for beating the World Cup finalists.

However, lets be honest and who thinks that we will beat teams on tries alone?

There are problems there and I hope they are addressed in the near future because unless it rains every time we play and Patterson is oan the park, we don't seem like winning any more games.

Enjoy the win boys, milk it for everything you have got, but you still got work to do.
6

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 07:53:38
“Winning the Calcutta Cup is yet another SNP inspired attempt to artificially engender a dispute with Westminster.”

David Cairns, junior minister in charge of paper clips at the North British Office claimed last night that it was the height of bad manners for some Scotland supporters to cheer widely at the news of England’s latest rugby defeat.

He went on to say that these obnoxious cheering supporters represented only a small minority of Scottish public opinion and that of course, the vast majority of hard working, right thinking loyal unionist Scots would be grieving as much as Johnny Wilkinson and Co at this latest blow to the prestige of the nation.
7

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 08:17:29
#3
Ha Ha Haddock indeed.

Harry Haddock was a distinguished Scottish football full-back in the late fifties, when he was a regular member of the international team along with his team mates Archie Robertson and Tommy Ring.

Whereas you are entitled to hold whatever views you have on the coaching abilities or otherwise of Frank Hadden, your attempt at finding a derogatory name to describe him may be seen by some as being offensive to the memory of a fine player
8

inoui,

Jomtien 09/03/2008 08:18:01
The English are infamous for there playing methods, who cares. Isn't gonna change. Up to the refs. An excellent victory. Bye bye Jonny........be good.
(Hello Mossy!)
:-)
9

wee-jimmy,

Over the moon 09/03/2008 08:25:53
Balshaw's 'tackle' was not deliberate but the guy went in far too fast. When I played it was always the guy who got there first that went to the ground, not the second guy as well. Hope Lamont will be OK - he's not having much luck with injuries this year.

What a game Southwell had... how rubbish were the english?!

Well done lads - you have improved every game - lets get some confidence boosting tries against the Italians now.
10

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 09/03/2008 08:56:01
#9 Please accept my unreserved apologies. Frank Hadden (for it is he) is probably one of the best rugby coaches who ever lived and deserves to be the next Lions coach obviously.
11

inoui,

Jomtien 09/03/2008 09:20:08
#11 correct, dangerous play but up to the ref. He had a few odd moments and his lines men were not much help. The weather looked crap too. Best team won.

Is Kimba in that straight jacket yet?
12

,

09/03/2008 09:40:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

Malc.F,

france 09/03/2008 09:45:42
Westcoaster,you must be joking.While I have no doubt that Balshaw had no intention of knneing Lamont in the head he went in feet first which is illegal.England for a change did not profit from their usual Southern Hemisphere ref.
Why do they always have a ref. from outside the 6 nations?
14

,

09/03/2008 09:53:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

Jockbok,

09/03/2008 10:02:33
Great result against a really poor England team. Is this the worst England team to play at Murrayfield since 1986? It was a poor game, not helped by the conditions. However, the win will mean nothing if we lose in Italy or win with the usual lack of invention.

From my position in the south stand, Lamont was too slow when coming over to cover. He seemed to speed up when he saw the English get through and thus had to thow himself on the ball headfirst. Not seen any highlights - but my first reaction was that it was a simple accident.
16

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 09/03/2008 10:02:57
I didn't see anything wrong with the tackle either, both players were just caught out by the slippery turf. Let's not spoil a great win by carping unfairly.
17

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 09/03/2008 10:08:34
Scotland deserve great credit for a marvellous display of courage and defence. Both teams in fact played well given the appalling conditions. But the fact that neither could score a try speaks volumes for the state of the game. Rugby is about try-scoring and Scotland have scored about 2 in five matches?

What is depressing is the way that we have to watch an avalanche of advertising on every inch of the pitch, the side-barriers and the player's bodies - this on the supposedly non-commercial BBC. The moving computer generated adverts are a distraction and a disgrace. We now have the most highly paid players in the history of the game from all these ads - shame they can't score tries.
18

Forward not Back,

Not near you 09/03/2008 10:20:03
A great result for Scotland, but the standard of play was in keeping with the whole Six Nations - mediocre. The Northern Hemisphere is going backwards again in rugby terms.
19

Scotsmanabroad,

Busan, South Korea 09/03/2008 10:34:14
Irish eyes look down on fine green jerseys. Les Blues have les blues. The Welsh and the English have their classic red and white jerseys. Why oh why oh why have Scotland got a light grey/ light blue/ weird shade of black/ ovals/ stripes/ slashes monstrosity of a strip? Advertising sandwich boards generally look better. It's not the worst national jersey ever. That (dis)honour goes to the salmon pink and blue pinstripe that the football gurus came up with a few years back. Back to basics please! On the field, and on the jersey.
20

Scotsmanabroad,

Busan, South Korea 09/03/2008 10:56:14
I love sport. All sport. I just watched Portsmouth beat ManU, Barnsley beat Chelsea, and Scotland beat England. I don't know which was the more surpising, but I do know which one I enjoyed the most. I was in the Stade de France in 1999 when Scotland beat France and went on to win the last 5 Nations. I was in the same city last year when the football team gave us a night to remember. Yesterday's game will not be remembered in the same way, but being a Kilmarnock and a Scotland fan, you learn to celebrate when you get the chance. A win is a win. Well done guys!
21

John not from the Borders,

Haddington 09/03/2008 10:56:18
#18 has got it spot on. We had a good view of the incident and Lamont was just very slow getting to the ball. It was an accident and if anyone was to blame it was Lamont!
22

Captain Jon,

Cabo San Lucas 09/03/2008 11:01:44
Great game!!! Uplifted the nation and restored our pride. Hope Rory is okay. My head's throbbing after making merry last night and drinking every Englishman in town under the table.

#22 expresses a valid point. Our current jersey design is totally boggin. I voted with my wallet and refused to buy the ugly bampot. Sitting here this morning in the last of the Grouse designed long sleevers. Looks even better with yesterday's celebratory beer stains still on it. At least we're not alone. The current French jersey is awful too.
23

Edinburgh Pete ,

09/03/2008 11:07:17
Yes, I have woken this morning to find it wasn’t a dream, it did happen and we have a win on the board this Six Nations.

I’ll hold my hand up first, didn’t like the overall 22 and thought that we were taking a big risk with it. It wasn’t pretty, it wasn’t great attacking rugby but who cares.

The pack were immense, all 8 did their jobs and the subs supported them well. Blair led from the front, was secure under the high ball, marshalled the defence and used the ball wisely. The backs (even Parks), tackled their hearts out defended the high balls well and for once the tactical kicking was spot on

The abiding memory, Big Jas is back !!!! His dumping of Sackey was SO good.

You could see the lift the team took from defending the line after the Lamont injury and then the tackling second half as England ran out of ideas.

Lets not get carried away, there are still issues with the team and this season has been poor, however Hadden with a little influence from Robinson this week has finally given us something to be proud of;

More of the same on Saturday please boys, time to put Italy firmly in their place and lets have some revenge for last year (AGAIN!!!)
24

F.D.L.,

hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 09/03/2008 11:16:42
read and wipe the tears from your eyes

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby/article3511550.ece
25

student number 5678,

09/03/2008 11:28:34
Possibly the greatest upset since rocky beat apollo creed in rocky 2. Milk it boys and saviour it and most importantly BUILD ON IT by beating the italians in their own patch.
Interesting note that Mr A. Robinson was heavely involved in Scotlands prepartions this week!Wonder if FH thanked him!
26

anakin,

anywhere west ofthe Hootsmon 09/03/2008 11:40:22
Glasgow Expat; No 4 BTO has got it correct.

This is from another thread folks.

Just you stay away please. You are of course talking about yourself ("...the parochial, narrow minded people like you"). A classic accurate depiction of your self.

Now for the game. Objectively you say.

A poor English team who were not up for the fight. Bcause that is what it is in rugby. As opposed to the jessie game that is soccer. Scotland did what they do best. Their mid field play was first class with a very energetic pick and ruck game that proved that athleticism over brawn does work.The difference in size was quite noticeable in the exchanges (through binoculars even more so) and the way forwards took on the formidable English pack was thrilling to be a part of.

To witness.

To be there.

For we shall be a nation again.

So you just stay where you are ex patsy. You shame the name of your home town with your rubbish.

So just you stay there.

See you in Rome possibly?
27

THE PALE,

GALA 09/03/2008 11:42:32
Good result and performance, ruined by commentators Beattie was an absoulate embarrasment his pathetic little screech on the full time whistle summed him up a crawling yes man !
28

Dabulamanzi,

09/03/2008 11:45:56
A great win for Scotland but England were poor. I don't think they'll be that bad again. Southwell had a good game surprisingly but two players who should never get near a Scotland jersey are Parks and Walker.
29

Braesbear,

The Falkirk Wheel 09/03/2008 12:06:59
I don't know very much about rugby but even I could see some of the cynicism in Englands play.

Balshaws tackle looked rather dangerous to me as I have never seen a rugby player sliding in feet first like that. Later, another of their big lumps took out a Scottish player (Southwell?) with the most obvious attack with the shoulder. Several other aggressive actions were noted.

30

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 09/03/2008 12:12:31
Nah anakin..having been bored in St.Etienne last September when we played the Italians I won't be travelling this time. Oh well, if the extent of our ambition is to beat England then fair enough I am wrong and you are right. Personally I would like to see Scotland as World Champions but with the current game plan / team that is living in cloud cuckoo land. Let's just carry on with mediocrity and beat England every so often so that we can think we can actually play the game well. As someone one said, people have delusions of grandeur but us Scots have delusions of adequacy. And you should try living abroad yourself sometime. It broadens the mind.
31

Kit,

09/03/2008 12:14:02
regardless of the fact that it was down to kicking points rather than tries, Scotland can take a hell of a lot of pride from that game. The arrogance of England was apparent from the way they walked onto the pitch...and they paid for it.
32

,

09/03/2008 12:17:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

jerrymanders,

Tackling the tacklers. 09/03/2008 12:19:43
Balshaw bottled it and hence led with his feet. That suggests you are not really going to win the ball. Lamont dived head first. I don't think that Balshaw's "tackle" was made with malicious intent. However, he lost his bottle and acted with poor discipline. For a player at that level to do this is still a citing event. Does that mean that every player on the pitch can lead with there feet in similar circumstances and receive no punishment? No.
34

ken cameron,

mossley ontario 09/03/2008 12:26:01


DON'T GET SWELL HEADED HADDEN, IF ENGLAND PLAYED AT THEIR POTENTIAL WOULD IT STILL BE 15/9??? STILL PACK YOUR BAG.
35

BigRon,

09/03/2008 12:29:34
Let`s get a sense of perspective about this win. Great courage and heart shown by Scotland but the deficiencies of the previous 3 games still need addressing. The weather and a dreadful English performance contributed to this win, enabling Scotland to put their limited game plan into action.A neutral would have probably switched off after half an hour.
I`m not criticising the players but we need a new coach and direction. Hadden is out of his depth at this level.
36

jerrymanders,

He's a numpty. 09/03/2008 12:48:03
#40

Great. You've proved that you are an erse on more than one thread. Well done.
37

Gerrymc,

Scottish Borders 09/03/2008 12:52:26
While I don't think Balshaw's 'tackle' on Lamont was malicious, it certainly was reckless, and is part of a trend that goes unpunished in the pro game. People slide in feet first all the time as tries are being scored and nothing is done about it. Having said that, what was Lamont thinking of? What was he going to do once he won the ball and got back on his feet? He was the last man, with no support and plenty attackers coming at him. The ball should have been fly hacked into row Z
38

tatties n, neeps,

09/03/2008 13:33:37
Scotland the best of two very poor sides ,feel sorry for true rugby fans who made the journey from England to witness that dire spectacle a change of management for both national sides needed i think.
39

123456789,

09/03/2008 14:28:08
Balshaw should be Cited!

Lamont was daft not to punt the ball in to the stands but Balshaw went in feet first! This is rugby where you tackle with arms not legs!

He's lucky that the 4th Offical doesnt play a part until the Ref asks him coz he should have been sent off!

That Being said awesome play and awesome to beat the English! Wilkinson to be dropped! :)
40

jerrymanders,

Replay 09/03/2008 14:48:46
#42

Not now!!!!!
41

Westcoaster,

perth 09/03/2008 15:38:25
Balshaw should not be cited. he went down on a ball how your taught too. it was an accident get over it.

Both teams should be cited for possibly the worst game of rugby ever, besides the result.
42

123456789,

09/03/2008 15:44:18
#48

When did you get taught to go knee first! He had no chance of winning the ball fairly and yet he went through with his knee! Also since when did the "give the player time to get up" law get scrapped! If Rory had enough time to get on his feet he wouldnt have been taken to Hospital! It was dirty English play and he's lucky Rory wasnt more seriously hurt

And true it wasnt great game but they played to the best they could given the weather! Scotland were awesome in Defence! Alan Tait does a Great Job!
43

busbyfh,

09/03/2008 15:56:46
The writer said that a head met a knee - Sorry but the knee "met" the head.The "knee" owner should have been off straight away - He knew what he was doing - Watch the replays.
To lead with parts of your legs are taught in the game - OF FOOTBALL.
Also shoulder to the jaw - Should have been off as well.
Always have said the English rugby team is packed with thugs - TOTAL THUGS.
44

123456789,

09/03/2008 16:07:26
#50

Glad someone else was taught the difference between Football and Rugby, :)
45

gus1940,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 16:19:49
What I really missed was a commentary from Bill McLaren - although obviouisly a Scotland supporter he was always fair to both sides. Yesterday's commentary was typical of the dumbing down of THe BBC it was so tartan biased.

Why couldn't we have had the BBC national commentary listened to the slow deflation of Butler, Moore and Guscott.
46

gus1940,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 16:21:58
My day would have been completed if I could have listened to the slow deflation of Butler, Moore & Guscott.
47

123456789,

09/03/2008 16:29:47
#52

"What I really missed was a commentary from Bill McLaren"

2nd that!

Problem is no one else is unbiased! The English commentators are pathetic and even when England aren't playing they cant stop talking about them! Lets try and make the BBC British again and remember that not everyone watching wants England to do well!
48

123456789,

09/03/2008 16:32:01
Not that i always wont them to do badly but it gets tiresome listening to how England are so good and how they cant lose games!

Every Footie tournament they are in the commentators and Media hype them up to be World Beaters! When in reality they've only won one world cup in each sport. Granted one more in each than Scotland but we dont take it for granted we will win!
49

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 16:59:53


There is more intense enjoyment in seeing a small nation beat champions against all odds than watch champions win yet another game in the same manner as before.

50

Enigma,

09/03/2008 17:07:47
54

`Remember that not everyone watching wants England to do well!`

I think most people in England got that message a long time ago! In Scotland at least it is an article of national identity.
51

Senor Pedo,

Lima 09/03/2008 17:28:26
54 . I think you are wrong . I don´t think people in England have got the message for I doubt it is the message . And were it so I would urge you and those of your ilk to aspire higher . There may once have been an acute craving for victory when the English and Scots played each other , this appears no longer the case . For myself I wish there was a return to more spitting arrogance , braveheart nonsence and anger from Scots prior to competition instead of the almost supine silence before this . It used to put far greater edge and victory so much sweeter .
52

Senor Pedo,

Lima . 09/03/2008 17:35:25
SCOTSMANABROAD . Like you I´m an expat abroad , in Peru actually , though and Englander . But I agree with your comment vis Scotlands shirts . What happened to the inspiring blue, NZ not playing black , Englands awful kit too . Its all about dosh , ´fraid . Thought the Man U and Chelsea games were good . I spect asa Killie fan you had stars in your eyes . Well done the Jocks though .
53

Enigma,

09/03/2008 17:36:09
58

I know I am right.

But the analy retentive obsession with the `auld enemy`, re-fighting ancient battles, if that`s what you mean by putting an`edge` on things then keep it. We English have more important thing to concern us.
54

123456789,

09/03/2008 17:48:11
Enigma,

you say that English have got the message.....why then in the world cup scotland would be playing a game and the first 5mins of half time would be about the 1st half and the other 5-10mins would be an interview with an english player/coach about the game in 3 or 4 days time?

Yet when England are playing there is maybe 1 min max about the other home nations and more often or not they dont get mentioned!

The BBC/ITV should concentrate on the game that they are showing an no other!
55

Media 1,

cape town 09/03/2008 18:01:27
Hadden should be fired!
Scotland are dire this season, yet against England they managed to find something extra and won. That tells me that Scotland are sh!te until they end up playing a game that matters.
Why only the England game? Howcome Hadden doesnt have them playing like that against the other sides?
Good result, but it tells us that Scotland only play well when they play England, other than that they dont really want to playing rugby. or so it would appear!
56

Enigma,

09/03/2008 18:01:36
61

I`m talking about wider politics. There again if there was a BBC England, like there is a BBC Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.....
57

Senor Pedo,

Lima. 09/03/2008 18:21:21
ENIGMA 60 . My apologies I understood you to be from our northern tribes . Actually I stupidly misread your contribution , mixing 54 and 57 . Again my apologies . Happy to your agreeing the auld enemy etc etc being retained for sporting occasions . Normally I find such inane claptrap boring . And , you are right , we have more important things to do .
58

Angoose,

fife 09/03/2008 18:22:52
#52,I listened to Butler , Moore , Guscott and Inverdale on BBC West via Sky. hate to say it, but the commentary was far better than that of Beattie & Sole, and the comments of Logan & Doddie. You are 100% correct in the dumbing down. I hate to say it, but Moore was actually very good, and very honest in his appraisal.

Wheres the Laird of katiwherever these days????
59

grumpy200,

edinburgh 09/03/2008 18:25:10
Lots of comment not fair or justified. Balshaw's slide was certainly dangerous and he should have at least been warned by ref. No mention of the deliberate trip when Scotland made their one good break. would love to see it again -- could easily have justified a penalty try. But it certainly merited a yellow card, this is an act specifically mentioned in the law on foul play.
I'd also like to put in a word for Dan Parks. SoS pans him and links him with Wilkinson as having his last cap. He did make some mistakes, but he kicked a superb penalty goal and tackled in a way that I have not seen from him before. It was difficult for him coming on so soon to take Paterson's place after the big press there had been for "running rugby" and he did reasonably well, his errors this time not costing points. Give him some credit
60

Westcoaster,

perth 09/03/2008 18:25:58
bbc scotlands coverage was shocking. It sounded like john beatie was doing it from his front room with radio scotland on in the background. Ended up watching english version via the red button. There's was glossy and professional sure the commentators do your nut in but it was delivered a lot better.
61

Senor Pedo,

Lima. 09/03/2008 18:38:23
55 . I keep hearing these stories about THE media hyping up Englands players as world beaters ! What I read is that England , as a major football power have consistenly under performed , with questions as to whether we have any world class players . Unless its about Africa , Asia , climate control or PC the anti British BBC have nothing to say . Incidentally , in the sporting scene , Scots up until 1978 were forever ramming down all our throats about how they were going win this , that and everything else . It took the debacle of Allys Army against Iran and Peru to dampen that nonsense . Incidentally the Chumpitaz goal against Scotland is shown every week on Peru TV . So when you read or see anything in THE media about English worldbeaters let me know . OK ?
62

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 18:45:39

60 Enigma - But No Mystery

You "know you are right"?

But do you know you are arrogant?

That's the real question that will lead you to enlightenment.
63

Not Me,

....back home.... 09/03/2008 18:49:23
#3

One wonders who taught Balshaw to play - how on earth can you secure the ball with your knee?

Cowardly.
64

paul02,

London . 09/03/2008 18:56:43
69. No its the answer that might lead to enlightenment .One knows he´s right , the other knows he´s arrogant . Lovely ! MEDIA 1 , Cape Town . Scotland won and deserved to. They were the better team . But playing like that they will beat no one else , perhaps not even Italy . They beat England not through improvement , there was none , but because England were so awful .
65

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 19:01:18

Paula 01

What did England do to deserve a fan like you?



66

paul02,

London . 09/03/2008 19:07:22
L.A . Don´t try to be smart , you don´t have the wherewithal .
67

Joanna,

Cambs, England 09/03/2008 19:08:57
paul02

72 is a troll he is not a rugby supporter and is completely clueless about yesterday's game. Ignore him.
68

paul02,

London . 09/03/2008 19:19:35
Joanna 74 . Hello Joanna . Shame about yesterdays game . I didn´t expect it after Paris . But England were awful weren´t they ? Lets just hope they give us something to cheer next Saturday . You are right about the so called LA . He´s a complete half wit . All the best Joanna .
69

Joanna,

Cambs, England 09/03/2008 19:25:37
paul02

Agreed, England were inept, where was Wilkinson kicking to? Scotland were much improved and they deserved to win.

Ah well, Ireland next .. more humiliation?
70

paul02,

London. 09/03/2008 19:36:17
Joanna . In the light of yesterdays game I´m not sure whats going to happen . The Paris team I´m sure would have trounced Ireland , but . . . . . ? Anyway lets keep behind the boys . They´ll get it right in the end. By the way I thought Scotland deserved their win but they were awful too . Forgive me but I saw no improvement . Actually if they don´t play better next week Italy will beat them .
71

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 19:44:47

Paula 02

"Wherewithal"?

Was that the sequel to "Withnail and I"?

By the way, it is impossible to be a "complete half-wit." You are either a half-wit or a complete imbecile. And as you have me the half-wit that make you the ...

LoL

72

inoui,

Jomtien 09/03/2008 19:52:19
#38. Ofcourse it would. England were playing to their petential, whatever that is?
73

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 19:53:13
#68 writes:-
“Incidentally the Chumpitaz goal against Scotland is shown every week on Peru TV . So when you read or see anything in THE media about English worldbeaters let me know . OK ?”

It does not appear as if you have a Scooby about what you are attempting to comment upon.

Hector Chumpitaz did play in the game against Scotland in Corboda, Argentina, on 03/06/78, which we lost 1-3.

The scorers in that game were Jordan for us, Cuerto and Cubillas (2) for them.

Come back when you are better informed.
74

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 19:53:38

79 Inoue

LoL According to their fans they don't have any, which to me is a brutal critique.

75

inoui,

Jomtien 09/03/2008 19:54:33
#48 Maybe they are taught like this in England!
76

inoui,

Jomtien 09/03/2008 19:56:42
Guess it's not just their fans!
77

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 20:00:58


Inoui

Can't be their fans. Only Scotland's fans hold sway over performance. (Finally got your name right - sorry - useless two-fingered speed typing.)
78

inoui,

Jomtien 09/03/2008 20:07:17
lost me there LA, maybe its way past bed time.
79

paul02,

London . 09/03/2008 20:11:17
LA . I used the phrase complete half wit , ordinarily incorrectly , in order for those of your mind to better understand . Normally such as you are of no import so . . . . . .No its pointless .
80

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 20:12:01

Inoui -

The commentator ascribed Scotland's win to being on their home ground surrounded by enthusiastic fans. No idea what he will make of the same situation when next we lose.

81

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 20:13:16

87 Paul Bow Bells ... you are fast deflating ...
82

paul02,

London . 09/03/2008 20:22:07
80 . You´ve been reading your Charles Buchan Big Book of Football Humiliations again , haven´t you ? You do remember Allys Army though and his victory celebration before the world cup , don´t ya ?You may or may not be correct about the scorer . That the goal is seen every week on Peru TV , well more precisely nearly every week , is true . And what a marvellous goal it was , wasn´t it ? How we despised you useless worms then .However I spoke to Hector Chumpitaz , as I often do since he lives just around the corner from my Lima home ,only last week . Well thats it , i¨m off to lobster dinner in Lima . What about you ?
83

paul02,

London . 09/03/2008 20:24:14
LA . My wife wishes I would deflate . You´re OK LA really . Just a bit of mischief from me .
84

inoui,

Jomtien 09/03/2008 20:24:22
Ok, with you now. The Scotsman journalistic capabilities are infamous but sometimes the forum can be a good crack.

As we all saw both teams were playing in difficult conditions, England after a win and Scotland after a loss. Always a home advantage they say but clearly the better team won on the day.

Huge party here, the pub erupting in joy at the win and then bursting into laughter at the English studio commentators. Only a handfull of Scots in an international crowd. Anyway, as they say the rest of the competition is the icing on the cake.

Keep smiling
85

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 20:45:06

91 Inoui

Yes, on this occasion the better team won.

A forum sidebar: what is the problem with providing a facility to quote, make bold, and to place in parenthesis? It's visually confusing to find a dozen posts between yours and the one you connect. You lose your thread ... to coin a phrase.



86

inoui,

Jomtien 09/03/2008 20:59:27
Agreed.

Knowing this publication for many years, having anything online is a new adventure. Perhaps in time but for the present such a facility is probably stretching capabilities.
Maybe limited interest.
Plenty of Scots scattered around the world no doubt interested in whats happening in/to Scotland, which can only be focused by a Scottish based journal.
87

Hootsmon Henry & his hairy hangdog hound,

Strutting beside Franklin D Hardcock, OBE 09/03/2008 21:03:44
Hey - ultimate strategist, FunTimeFranklin D Hardup..!

Forgetting the odd-shaped ball & referees who dislike your over-use of the glottal stop (to show you are one of the peeps) don't you think it might just be a good idea to be ahead of the opposition on the scoreboard in every match played???

HOW MANY TRIES HAVE SCOTLAND SCORED IN THEIR LAST 4 MATCHES???


STOP PRESS NEWS - HOT TOPIC........!!!!
"GREAT DRAMA"
Scottish No8 Simon Taylor dropped from squad after undergoing sex-change operation and transformation into a poncy wee footballer, in London nightclub after midnight curfew.

Sources advise that the new Mrs Taylor did not drink alcohol during the procedure, but was seen chatting in perfect Romanian to a Cheeky Girl and later, dancing with a (very) cross-dressing lady-boy known locally as the "Bangkok Bricklayer's Hod-Carrier".

Mr FunTimeFranklin D Hardcore wears silly hats for the hell of it. (Ed)
88

inoui,

Jomtien 09/03/2008 21:06:24
Great weekend, even for that most boring of sports named cricket, (sorry Kimba couldn't resist it, guess you're in that straight jacket). About 4.00am here n' I'm knackered so.........................
89

jerrymanders,

They think its all over, it was 42 years ago. 09/03/2008 21:38:44
#68

Utter nonsense. We put up with that crap all the time and you go on about 1978!!!!!! 30 years ago. You are the problem. Just think for a second.
90

A VOICE FROM SCOTLAND ;o)),

ANY TIME ANY PLACE ANY WHERE 09/03/2008 21:47:12
Balshaws tackle on Lamont was a cheap shot and dangerous. You do not go into a tackle in rugby feet first or even knees first. Balshaw knew exactly what he was doing as instead of putting the ball out of play having seen that Lamont was unconcious, he took the ball out of Lamonts arms and passed it to attempt a score. Had it been a genuine accident he would have been more concerned for his victim. He ought to have been red carded and cited .
Quite obviously, 48 Westcoaster,perth 09/03/2008 15:38:25 has never been on a rugby pitch in his life, judging by the stupid comment. No player is taught to go into a tackle feet first, get over your self.

England were undone by there arrogance, they thought they could out muscle the Scots but came unstuck when they felt the power of Scotlands tackles. Shock and awe soon had them on the back foot. Scotland are proud of there brave warriors, thank you so much.
91

jb,

Robina 09/03/2008 22:55:38
Great result, but unfortunate. Just means the same tactics will be applied for the next 2 years, as this will be seen as justification for continuing the status quo. England were worse than I have seen them for years, without an attacking idea in the team. While Scotland played better than they have all season, they still showed little clue in attack. The only attacking ploy the backs seem to have goes scrum-half ---> stand-off ---> flick inside to either inside centre or one winger who then runs at a good angle back into a bunch of 2 metre, 110kg forwards who are only too happy to flatten him and the ball is lost forward in the tackle.. The ball has to get quickly along the line where someone can run the same angle at the opposing side's backs and hopefully break the line. If you watch any of Scotland's games recently, scenario 1 happens frequently and scenario 2 never.
Still we can only hope that against Italy the Scots can build on this and have the confidence to open things out. Morrison had a great game. Team him up with Cairns and see if they can bring some of the A team's flair up. Try a bit of experimentation in the final game. There's nothing to lose.
92

Sedov,

Scotland 10/03/2008 09:20:29
The result cannot hide the fact the rugby union is stifled by too many rules, many of which are vague and meaningless. You are lucky if you get one good international in every four games and by all accounts this was a poor game.
93

Willie Bruce,

Knoxville USA 10/03/2008 11:43:10
Congratulations to Scotland.
Well done in tough conditions.
The flag was flying Saturday afternoon!
I doubt anybody in Knoxville knew the significance.
94

Ancient Mariner,

Livingston 11/03/2008 12:52:18
I sincerely hope that none of the Scotland squad read this thread. After finally coming good for once, the number of grudging, mealy-mouthed, half-hearted, 'I kent his father, style comments and damnation by faint praise would be enough to drive any player to kick a few modems into touch. Just for once can we not say 'well-done' and get behind them with our support? Some of you sound as if you want Scotland to fail - or is that the idea?

By the way, Balshaw's attempt to put Rory Lamont into hospital may not have been deliberate but he should still be cited for gross stupidity; perhaps then he (and others) wont be tempted to try it again. What was in his mind (if anything) when he launched that move?
95

WhiteSettler,

In Edinburgh, stealing your jobs and womenfolk 11/03/2008 14:16:43
I love how the result of this game gets blown up by the usual vitriolic posters in these pages to represent more than it really was. The whole affair was nothing more than a lacklustre performance by an inconsistent England side, coupled with a largely adequate defensive performance by Scotland, both elements of which served to provide no real entertainment in rugby terms.

Scotland didn't win the game, England lost it.

And, before the usual lunatics start frothing and gibbering, yes I was there, and yes I play the game myself.
96

Westcoaster,

perth 11/03/2008 21:50:16
97 - if you READ my statement you'll see i say thats HOW YOU ARE TAUGHT TO GO DOWN ON THE BALL not tackle. And for your interest i've played against balshaw at international level.

 

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