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Resurgent Scots seize Calcutta Cup



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Published Date: 09 March 2008
IT POURED down for most of the 80 minutes, but nothing could spoil the joy across Scotland last night as the nation celebrated a memorable victory over the Auld Enemy.
Frank Hadden's team won back the Calcutta Cup after a hard fought 15-9 triumph over England at Murrayfield.

The poor weather did not seem to bother any of the Scots in the 67,000 crowd who saw their team defy the odds to defeat the World Cup finalists.

Chris Paterson racked up 12 points with four flawless penalties and victory was sealed with an emphatic display by a supremely strong forward line. England's miserable afternoon was summed up when their talismanic fly-half, Jonny Wilkinson, was substituted before the end of the game.

After being presented with the Calcutta Cup by Princess Anne, the delighted Scotland captain and man of the match Mike Blair said: "We are just overjoyed that we managed to do it. It was a typical Scottish performance full of guts and determination. It's a very proud day for me and everyone in Scotland."

The victory was Scotland's first in a previously disappointing run of Six Nations Championship games.

Head coach Hadden hailed the Murrayfield crowd and took a swipe at Scotland's critics after the game.

He said: "We had a lot of supporters out there; we've got a lot of critics as well. That win definitely wasn't for the critics – that was for the support we received over the past couple of weeks."

'All Scotland is bursting with pride'

Marc Horne and Gareth Rose

MURRAYFIELD was impregnable, coach Frank Hadden breathed a huge sigh of relief and fans who began partying almost from kick-off were able to continue their fun late into the night as Scotland triumphed once again over England in their Edinburgh stronghold.

A saltire made of 20,000 song-sheets – raised in harmony to the strains of 'Flower of Scotland' – and columns of flame from pitchside burners that greeted the Scottish side heightened passions before the start of the game. The intensity never left the men in blue for the rest of the afternoon.

An emotional Chris Paterson, the hero on the pitch after kicking 12 of Scotland's 15 points, summed up the scale of the achievement for players, staff and deliriously happy supporters, saying the victory ranked among the team's proudest moments against the auld enemy. "It's a special occasion when Scotland play England at Murrayfield. All the hard times we go through, this is a special, special occasion," he said.

"I'm absolutely delighted for the players who have taken a lot of stick.

"Frank Hadden and the coaching staff have had as much as we've had, but this makes it worthwhile for us, for the supporters, and especially for the coaches."

Head coach Hadden, his position under pressure after Scotland's poor start to the Six Nations Championship, hailed the Murrayfield crowd and took a swipe at Scotland's critics.

"I'm just really delighted for the long-suffering supporters," he said.

"That win definitely wasn't for the critics – that was for the support we received over the past couple of weeks.

"It's been difficult. It's not easy to maintain your confidence with that level of negativity. That's what made today's performance all the more remarkable."

First Minister Alex Salmond said Scotland's rugby team had "done the nation proud" after they lifted the Calcutta Cup.

Salmond, who was at the game, said: "It was a wonderful performance from the team to win the Calcutta Cup.

"I'm delighted for Frank Hadden that he's guided Scotland to such an important victory.

"That is the second successive time we have come out on top against England at Murrayfield, and I know how much the win means to all the fans."

Sport Minister Stewart Maxwell praised the team's "fantastic" performance. "It was full of passion, energy and an unwavering determination to win," he said. "All of Scotland is bursting with pride."

After the cup had been lifted, jubilant fans spilled out of Murrayfield and onto the streets, dancing, singing and cheering.

Fans who watched the match in pubs were no less buoyant. Grant Hughes, 18, a Scottish student who lives in Edinburgh, had watched the game with several mates – Scots and English – said: "The atmosphere was really good. We always get up for it against England; we always show great pride. If it had been anyone else I would not have been as confident we were going to win."

When the heavens opened and the rain came down, a few more seasoned Scottish supporters also started to suspect it might be their day after all.

"I didn't think we had a hope until I saw the rain," said Alex Borthwick, 54, from Tranent.

"The last time we beat them it was chucking it down."

After watching the game in a packed-out Three Sisters pub in Edinburgh's Cowgate, he added: "It was brilliant. The atmosphere was the best I've experienced in my life – the humour, the camaraderie. There was no hassle. The English and the Scots all got on together."

Also watching on the big screen in the pub's rain-soaked courtyard was Malcolm Maclean from Paisley. "I'm not really a rugby fan, but when it comes to something like this it's a different story," he said.

"The atmosphere in Edinburgh is going to be unbelievable tonight. There's such a warm, welcoming feel to the city that I'm sure everyone will have a good night."

In Glasgow, the celebrations were no less joyous, with kilted students Stuart Fleming and Mike Chalmers waving a Lion Rampant flag in triumph in George Square.

Fleming, 19, from Dennistoun, said: "Stuffing England more than makes up for losing all the other games so far. I know it is really childish, but I can't wait to wind up my English flatmate when I get home."

Chalmers, 20, added: "I'm really chuffed for Frank Hadden, the Scotland coach.

"He has been getting a lot of stick recently and it would have got worse if we hadn't won today.

"Mike Blair (the captain] was brilliant for us, and Jason White's crunching tackle against Paul Sackey was a touch of class."

Bill McPherson, 68, of East Kilbride, said: "Scotland played with a lot of heart and fully deserved to win. It was backs-to-the-walls stuff at the end, but the Scots defence and tackling were very strong."

There was a party atmosphere in the packed Waxy O'Connor's pub in Glasgow city centre.

Borderer Chris Cathcart, 32, said: "It's wasn't the prettiest of games, but it was a fantastic result. Everyone went crazy when the final whistle blew.

"A lot of people thought that Scotland were going to get thumped, but I had a feeling that they could spring a surprise, and they did."

Anna Morrison, 22, from Glasgow's West End, was dressed for the occasion with a saltire painted on her face.

"It's been a brilliant day and I'm definitely going to stay out and celebrate."

Match hailed as clincher for future of 3D TV sport

A BBC experiment which saw yesterday's Calcutta Cup clash between Scotland and the Auld Enemy being screened lived in 3D has been hailed as the future of sports broadcasting.

Every tackle, scrum and ruck was shown in vivid reality to a group of TV sports executives.

The Six Nations Championship clash was chosen to test a technological breakthrough that could revolutionise the way in which we watch big sporting events.

Live BBC pictures from Murrayfield were beamed in high definition 3D via satellite to an audience watching on a cinema screen in a studio in Hammersmith, west London.

Representatives of British sport's governing bodies wore high-quality 3D glasses for an experience that enthusiasts claim was almost as good as being at the game.

The broadcast was the result of six months' testing by BBC Resources and The 3DFirm, a Richmond-based consortium of production specialists.

If it proves to be popular, the BBC hopes to beam big sporting events such as the World Cup and Olympic Games live in 3D to a network of cinemas.

Organisations such as the Scottish Rugby Union could sell tickets for 3D screenings at Murrayfield when the Scottish team is playing away, and 3D screenings could become a significant revenue generator for the BBC.

The corporation, which invested a six-figure sum in the Murrayfield trial, says 3D sport is cost-effective because it does not require special cameras.

A stereoscopic high definition signal is sent from three pitchside cameras. It goes via satellite to London, where it is converted through a 3D projection system.

The technology will soon be accessible in viewers' homes through a new generation of 3D television screens that do not require special glasses.

Philips has developed a prototype 132-inch 3D TV that offers an 'out of screen' experience. The first sets will be available for £10,000 this year. And new computer games are being designed for 3D screens. David Wooster, of The3DFirm, said: "This is a test so the big question is can we actually achieve live 3D sport? From what we have seen so far, 3D can place the audience in the stadium, as if they were actually there, giving a heightened sense of reality."

Viewers watching 3D rugby get a wider depth of vision and a greater sense of the players' positions. The technology could also help to judge controversial decisions.

Once mocked for its use of flimsy green and red glasses, 3D is regarded as the next platform for Hollywood. Peter Jackson, director of The Lord of the Rings, is creating a 3D Tintin trilogy with Steven Spielberg. The 3DFirm hopes to screen live rock concerts in cinemas after the success of a U2 film using the technology.

Aashish Chandarana, BBC Sport's innovations executive, said: "We tried to do something no one's tried before. Editorially it was not a fast-cut TV experience but more the experience you'd get if you were at Murrayfield."

The 3DFirm will also assess the impact of alcohol on sports fans wearing 3-D glasses.

Wooster said: "You probably don't want to drink too much or you will get double vision."

It's a far cry from the first Scotland v England rugby clash which took place in Edinburgh in 1871.

The full article contains 1720 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 March 2008 12:03 AM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Six Nations , Calcutta Cup
 
1

The Gorgie Boys Are In Town,

09/03/2008 00:04:51
Thought Scotland defended brilliantly and deserved the win. I thought Scotland where poor offensively in regards to threaten to score a try even, but on the other side of the coin they where phenomenal considering how bad the reults have been lately.
Always good to do the English at any sport in a friendly rivalry kind of way.
Get It Roon Ye!
2

Dan.D.Nong,

Flower of scotlans 09/03/2008 01:16:24
O flower of Scotland
When will we see your like again
That fought and died for
Your wee bit hill and glen
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again

The hills are bare now
And autumn leaves lie thick and still
O'er land that is lost now
Which those so dearly held
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again

Those days are passed now
And in the past they must remain
But we can still rise now
And be the nation again
That stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again
3

Aslan,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 01:59:14
#3,#4 - what a couple of dreamers you pair are! On the ground, the Scotland fans are swaggering about, looking for Lilywhites to laugh at. Jonny was rubbish, albeit less so than Shirley Vainakolo - might he be the worst Englander ever?
4

Los Angeles,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 02:47:10


At the end of the game the English commentator was heard to say:

"It's amazing what fans can do."

Hoo-haar!

5

bring them on,

09/03/2008 03:38:49
I had to listen, and laugh, to the English commentary.

Complained before the game started that the English team bus was late getting to the ground because of Scottish fans.

A man down, and clearly badly hurt, and he winges on national TV aboot it no being right that the English players have to wait around all this time.

Did you hear this guy?

6

Animal82,

09/03/2008 03:50:16
in the face
7

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 09/03/2008 04:34:34
#7 bring....

I presume the good folks back in Scotland had Scottish commentators but the drivel we were served up by blatently biased "eejets" in the commentery box was absolutely pathetic!

Bring back Bill McLaren!!!!
8

Rolland Butter,

Embra 09/03/2008 04:46:20
I still want to buy shares in the Roseburn bar.
9

,

09/03/2008 05:47:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Eddie the Expat,

Home Counties 09/03/2008 06:15:06
#7 Bring; #9 Tatties

I have complained about these two to the BBC. They do not understand the word commentate. They sit up in that box and anrgue their way through the match criticising anything that comes there way including any advantage Scotland may take. It was only getting near the end that Moore acknowledged England were playing 3rd rate rugby.

I'll be flying the saltire on my way to Kirk this morn.

#11 GC - why don't you shut up. This board is about a celebration. Go back in your corner unless you have something good to say or keep it for another board.
11

Ron Thomson,

Spain 09/03/2008 06:41:09
I watched the Welsh/Irish Match great, then came the big yin, Scotland and England what a stoating result the Perfect end to a Perfect Day,
Gimmi the cheap drink, Gimmi the cheap Fags and the Calcutta Cup.
12

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 09/03/2008 06:47:07
Kick, kick, kick, kick, kick. Whatever has happened to the game? Time that the points awarding increased for tries and decreased for tapping.
13

Richardinho,

09/03/2008 07:09:42
I'm one of those people who think Rugby is the most boring game in the world, but I always have one eye on it when we play the auld enemy.
Well done Scotland!
14

Dunger,

Doon Sooth 09/03/2008 07:21:43
A win is a win and fair play tae the boys for beating the World Cup finalists.

However, lets be honest and who thinks that we will beat teams on tries alone?

There are problems there and I hope they are addressed in the near future because unless it rains every time we play and Patterson is oan the park, we don't seem like winning any more games.

Enjoy the win boys, milk it for everything you have got, but you still got work to do.
15

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 09/03/2008 07:24:33
Agreed #15. A complete bore fest. Darts is more watchable than this drivel they call pro rugby. A good result for the xenophobes but that was all.
16

1745,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 07:43:21
17#
So Glad that you are an Expat.Stay away.

WELL DONE THE SCOTTISH TEAM!
17

JB2003,

09/03/2008 07:44:55
Great stuff!! I was at Twickenham last year to see Wilkinson destroy us with his kicking and a dodgy try so it's great to get the Calcutta Cup back! Come on Scotland!! Was loving that Wilkinson got subbed. And what a performance from Patterson! Great stuff lads.

11 - GC, go peddle your propaganda elsewhere. We're all looking forward to your president leaving office as the world'll be a safer place then.
18

Boy Wonder,

09/03/2008 08:00:54
Not a huge Rugby fan ... or footie ... but just have to say it's a great day when our lads win against the Auld Enemy. My girls were on the phone so fast to their English cousins yesterday, screaming, "In yer face!" Well, it does make up a little for all the English sporting bias we get constantly!

Now if only Andy can win Wimbledon this year ...
19

inoui,

Jomtien 09/03/2008 08:09:44
Good to see Jason White back to his crunching ways. Huge celebrations last night. Ye, the English commentators earned a few rounds of laughter in the bar.
20

inoui,

Jomtien 09/03/2008 08:12:16
#15. Wrong forum mate. Be happy, everyone else is, well almost! :-))
21

Mikey,

09/03/2008 08:25:32
#17, a win for the xenophobes? England got beat, you fool!

Where are the Britnats? No doubt nursing their tears of failure!
22

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 09/03/2008 08:29:47
Not a good game BUT WHO CARES!!!

Jeremy Guscott, Brian Moore, John Inverdale, Alistair Hignall...YOUR BOYS GOT A HELLUVA BEATING...well, almost!!!

One wish for next season...GED RID OF THAT HORRIBLE BLUE/GREY/UGLY KIT!!! PLEASE BRING BACK THE BLUE SHIRTS OF OLD!!!! Thank you.

23

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 09/03/2008 08:41:20
1745 and Mikey, yes you are right I will stay away from Scotland and the parochial, narrow minded people like you two who reside there. Stick it right up ye. Well done to the Scottish team. You bored England into submission. ps: I vote SNP by the way but I can still look at a game of rugby objectively. It was utter rubbish.
24

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 09/03/2008 08:47:18
Pro Scottish headline.......

Scots beat english at their own game, and are no really bothered.
25

Dugald311,

Dunbar 09/03/2008 08:52:54
Posh blokes have organised brawl, not many hurt, some beers drunk afterwards. Hardly news, is it?
26

PORTMAHICAN,

Highlands 09/03/2008 08:54:04
The weather has probably saved Haddock's bacon - but well done Scotland....my Engerlish pub mates had their gas turned doon tae a peep - the predictions beforehand were pure Disney....Agree about the BBC commentary team - Butler's a plastic Henry, Moore's a neanderthal little Engerlander..and Guscott's a smug git............Well done the players - a gutsy performance...Haddock's still crap
27

jdships,

09/03/2008 09:07:06
Great "performance" to win this game and full credit to all 22 players involved.
In the cold light of the morning after, reality kicks in !
This was a mediocre ( in skill terms)Scotland beating an even worse England.
Problems are still all behind the scrum.
Ywo centres needed plus a second "No 10 ".
Parks almost let the game slip away when he came on yesterday - surely his time is passed ?

The great plus points were the passion and commitment -hasn't been bettered for many a year
A repeat please against Italy

Final thought .
Some dodgy decisions from Mr Kaplan !!
28

Malc.F,

france 09/03/2008 09:12:11
Once again England get a ref from outside the 6 nations.My feeling is that they think they will get a raw deal from a ref from the other 5 nations. We sshould be told,it can't just be coincidence. Not that it did them any good this time Kaplan was unbiased but awful.As for the Balshaw incident I totally agree that he did not mean to hurt Lamont but surely the fact that he slid in feet first caused the injury and it should have been a penalty to Scotland at the very least.
I have no great problem with Butler and Moore who make you wonder when one or the other will attack the other physically on air and Butler really wants England beaten which is ok by me. Now the loathsome Guscott that's another matter.
29

Rabhairt,

Cannons Creek Australia 09/03/2008 09:17:46
ALBA, ALBA, ALBA.......OY, OY OY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
30

Scotch on the rocks,

Buckinghamshire 09/03/2008 09:21:07
Great performance by the back row, Blair and Morrison's tackling on Vainakolo was first rate. Paterson's place kicking is taken for granted, but is still worthy of credit under the circumstances.

Good to have a strong, fair referee after some previous shockers.

However, Ford must sort out his line-out throwing before the Italian game. The conditions were tough, but the backs still don't look like they know how to exploit an overlap.

In Rome, we will need to get the expansive game working to win and win comfortably. Expect dry running conditions:
1) Parks mustn't travel. Godman on bench, with Blair and Paterson starting at half back.
2) Webster to move to wing and bring Cairns in alongside Morrison in the centres - the partnership worked like a dream for the A team against Ireland A.
3) Add some pace in the back three + bench.






31

Gothic Rose,

09/03/2008 09:34:17
I`m not sport conscious,but it does send out joyful imaged:)
32

,

09/03/2008 10:11:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

Galasbest,

Ayr 09/03/2008 10:20:19
Great stuff but lets not forget, some very poor decisions which were in Englands favour (particularly foul play) and two incredibly bad up and unders from Dan Parks which transferred pressure from them to us. That said, the last time I saw guts like this was during the 1990 game
34

Leon MacRackpipe, catering and medical manager,

09/03/2008 10:28:34
ATB boys well done.............Great result.
35

Colin R,

Bearsden 09/03/2008 10:30:54
Great result but as Galabest says that should not mask some shocking refereeing and touch judge decisions - Chris White, Simon McDowall and JOhnathan Kaplan's reputations are already in tatters after the world cup and 2006 Six Nations debacles yet the IRB continues with these disgraced officials and we've seen some clearly in touch tries given by TV referees- corruption will lose Rugby sponsors, fans and money
36

Elvis G,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 10:32:05
Number 3; we cannot define success by occasionally, with the help of abysmal coinditions, beating England.So put away your out of date sentiments. Proud Edward died in 1312 or therabouts, things have moved on since then!

And let's hope that yesterday's great victory does not stop the selectors getting rid of Hadden. Having only two backs amongst the replacements was a potential disaster, even more so when Parks was brought on. Thankfully the ball was kept away from him for most of the time.And remember it was Hadden that dropped Paterson for the first game-what a plonker!
37

Shug,

09/03/2008 10:41:33
39. Couldn't have said it better myself. As long as we give living off these pointless victories and ignore the fact that France, Wales and Ireland beat us comfortably we will go no where. Hadden should go. Same nonsense for the football team, getting all misy eyed because we beat France and then get beat by Georgia and Italy and not qualify.
38

Saltiregirl,

09/03/2008 10:51:31
No 34

Sour Grapes Rob7?
Scots have alway won hearts the world over, English and Americans are probably the most unpopular nations in the world. Your sad little comment exeplifies why this is, you should speak to Galactic Cannibal,another nonsensemeister you'd probably get on just fine.
Also your comment re:kilts is quite laughable, like your national dress is soooooo cool NOT!! Morris Dancers..... nice
39

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 09/03/2008 10:58:24
It must be a great feeling for the servant to inflict defeat on his masters on the field of play.
40

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 09/03/2008 11:08:28
#7 Bring them on....... You are the same muppet who sings English songs at sectarian central(ibrox) i.e. rule Britannia-dambusters etc,etc,you also flaunt your English flag-(Union rag),and what about singing in praise of your English -German queen.In otherwords,stop being a Fu**ing hypocrite.
41

Andyh,

Scotland 09/03/2008 11:11:37
You know that this is the third time we have played
Paterson at the Calcutta Cup,the third time he has been in a different position and the THIRD time we've
won!
I am a devout Rugby Fan and am as happy for my country as ever but we must raise our game a bit
1.Paterson is at his best at stand-off so put him there
2.Act more offensivly! We will never win the six nations if we constantly depend on Paterson to kick for
us.the forwards are doing a good job but the backs must pass it wide
3.STOP CRITICIZING HADDEN!!
It isnt his fault that some errors are made but that doesnt mean critics have to stalk about waiting for Scotland to slip up. He could plan his games more offensivly but apart from that he is doing a fine job.
I look forward to the game against Italy and
perhaps a place in the top 3???
42

cleaning the bathroom,

la la land 09/03/2008 11:26:15
We've been beating the english for years in everything... we ahve a scotsman at No.10 and No. 9 - as well as a scottish spaker of the house and a scottish first minister...
43

anakin,

anywhere west of the Hootsmon 09/03/2008 11:32:10
# 25 Glasgow Expat;

Just you stay away please. You are of course talking about yourself ("...the parochial, narrow minded people like you"). A classic accurate depiction of your self.

Now for the game. Objectively you say.

A poor English team who were not up for the fight. Bcause that is what it is in rugby. As opposed to the jessie game that is soccer. Scotland did what they do best. Their mid field play was first class with a very energetic pick and ruck game that proved that athleticism over brawn does work.The difference in size was quite noticeable in the exchanges (through binoculars even more so) and the way forwards took on the formidable English pack was thrilling to be a part of.

To witness.

To be there.

For we shall be a nation again.

So you just stay where you are ex patsy. You shame the name of your home town with your rubbish.

So just you stay there.

See you in Rome possibly?
44

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 09/03/2008 12:07:24
Nah anakin..having been bored in St.Etienne last September when we played the Italians I won't be travelling this time. Oh well, if the extent of our ambition is to beat England then fair enough I am wrong and you are right. Personally I would like to see Scotland as World Champions but with the current game plan / team that is living in cloud cuckoo land. Let's just carry on with mediocrity and beat England every so often so that we can think we can actually play the game well. As someone one said, people have delusions of grandeur but us Scots have delusions of adequacy. And you should try living abroad yourself sometime. It broadens the mind.
45

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 09/03/2008 12:12:22
#45 Cleaning........... Stop being pathetic,you are more than aware that Scotland has for more than 300 years, been under English rule. So! cut the crap.
46

Highland Hero,

Shropshire 09/03/2008 12:40:14
Being an Scot watching the game in England yesterday was immense, however after searching through all the English papers to read reports of the match- it has mysteriously been kept to a minimum.

Funnily enough the English papers prefer to focus on the Irish/ Welsh match. How things would be different if they had won????!!!

WELL DONE SCOTLAND. GREAT STUFF
47

Griffe,

09/03/2008 12:43:51
Playing England was like playing 15 dead men. Any school team could have beaten the English who just didn't play. Do not be complacent about next week's match, Italy could win!
48

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/03/2008 12:59:18
50 exactly. of course its good to beat england but its also good to do it some style.

Yesterdays game was a poor advert for the game. Big game coming up to decide the worst team in the tournament !
49

Headless Horseman,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 13:14:16
Fantastic result, great performance from the team BUT:
- Dan Parks almost single-handedly threw away a 9-point lead with a succession of poor kicks straight into English hands, garryowens which went 5 feet, touch-finders that didn't and positional kicks that were almost charged down on several occasions. For anyone to say Parks deserves his place in the side for his "world class kicking game" is just patent nonsense.
- Hadden was very lucky not to be found out with his ridiculous decision to put only Parks and Lawson on the bench as cover for the backs. As soon as Lamont was injured I thought we were in real trouble. Thank God everyone else in the team played so well.
- There will have to be another reshuffle in the backs for the Italy game, given the injury situation. If Hadden picks Parks again he is clearly incapable of seeing what's staring him in the face and must be sent packing.
- Unless we manage to put Italy away, it will all have been for nought and we'll still pick up the wooden spoon. Let's hope we manage to build on the glimmer of attacking rugby we showed in Ireland. Remember Frank, one swallow does not a summer make !

I don't usually make a habit of singleing out individuals for such a load of criticism, but it could all have turned out so differently yesterday. Wake up Frank !

50

Littlehorse,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 13:20:32
#50 you are joke with comments like that. What a gut-less and negative comment..... maybe you could have won the game all by yourself... LOSER.

Wow, grew up in Aust with both sides of my family from Scotland, what dream to go and watch Scotland play England and win,I've never been prouder!


There were alot of critics before this game that was very dissapointing, when is the press here going to take positive steps towards building a more confident sporting nation???

The fans did a great job! Well done to the players, and everyone involved!
51

CraigieDEdin,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 14:12:35
#Littlehorse - spot on!

If you keep telling players their crap they'll start to believe it. Some people complain like there's a medal for it. Look what's been achieved in the FA Cup this year through sheer belief and unbelievable support.

HOWEVER, yesterday was brilliant. Not a great game in terms of attacking rugby, but exhilirating, tense and nerve jangling. What more do you want? We did yesterday what we should always do as a minimum - show passion, commitment and no little brains. If we can add pace and a little more skill then we'll have the basis for a great team.

Three highlights for me yesterday.

1. The second verse of Flower of Scotland at the beginning of the game - emotionally charged.
2. Big JW's cruncher on Saki - sapped the will from England.
3. Mike Blair pulling Nathan Hines up off to his feet and telling him to get stuck in on 74 minutes - great leadership!

Happy days.

52

Keith Mac,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 14:32:25
Not one word anywhere here about the Scot who was carried off. Very much hope the guy is alright as it certainly looked like a bad one at the time. Shame on everyone concerned!
53

indune1,

09/03/2008 15:07:19
33 - Gothic Rose - Now whos is the salacious one?

The match was pants. Politics aside, it did the game no honour.
54

Joanna,

Cambs, England 09/03/2008 15:09:30
Well done on the win Scotland :)

I thought England played very badly, Scotland were much improved on previous games. But, as a match the whole thing was a fairly boring spectacle. Kick, kick, kick and no tries, not my idea of good, entertaining rugby. Although I always enjoy watching the delectable Chris Paterson in fine form.

I think it might be time for Mr Ashton to pack his bags, the England team seem to have no leadership and have been floundering about ever since the 2003 WC.

Anyway, keep the Calcutta Cup for this year, it'll come back to its rightful home next year. There, that's the gauntlet thrown down! :))

55

anakin,

anywhere west of the hootsmon 09/03/2008 15:13:17
Ex pat; you do seem to have problem with things outwith what we are talking about. A game of rugby which Scotland were up for and which England were not.

That is why it is sad for me when we get your type spouting from far off places.

"..the extent of our ambition.." where do you get that from? I do hate generalisations. The extent of this supporter's ambition is to seek marginal improvements after each game.

I got that yesterday. England helped the situation. But I take this win within the context of the last few games when we have not done ourselves justice. IE not improved margnally.

I personlly believe that restoring Taylor changed the dynamics of the forward play and for that Hadden must be congratulated (that and big Hnes staying on the playing field). I have been a severe critic of him during and since the world cup. That is what it is all about.

As somebody (else) once said "dont generalise, everybody generalises". See I can talk crap and generalise too!

So my main complaint weedgie man ( for I am that too) is to not rant off of a tangent on generlisations but for you at least to welcome a small gain for a wee nation against one of the top /2/3/4 nations in the rugby world.

That I was in amongst 20 odd of my English extended family just made it all that wee bit sweeter for me.

We all kissed and madeup, shook hands and went off into the capital to jontly enjoy a nice night in the East. Or as best as you can in that foreign field that is forever Rose Street! Gimme Ashton Lane anytime.
56

Joanna,

09/03/2008 16:19:13
Malc F

"Once again England get a ref from outside the 6 nations"


I noticed that you made this comment on the Telgraph site as well, although you were more careful about how you worded it. Scared of an English backlash perhaps?

Are you implying that referees outside of the 6 Nations are corrupt? It seems so, with your frequent digs at them.
57

Joanna,

Cambs, England 09/03/2008 16:26:44
Traquir

I would not like to suggest that you are biased but try looking at the Telegraph and Times websites you will find there are plenty of commentators/posters who are willing to concede that England were dire and Scotland were better.

58

KelsoKillie,

Not on holiday 09/03/2008 16:29:57
It was great to have the win, but it was pretty tense all the way through - thought England could have snatched it in the last minute as they finally threw it along the backs.

It was very wet and windy yet I think it was the best ball handling Scotland have displayed in this 6N.

Everyone seems to be down on Parks again - and yes, he did have a couple of not perfect kicks. But Patterson also sclaffed it at least once, and no mention of that. And without Parks long range kick, we could have had a lead of just 3 points - quite an encouragement to England to go for a drop goal, if they had found their way into our 22. On balance, I'd say Parks had a good day with his kicking - and he did actually pass it when he got his first touch! And Southwell also did a great job with his kicking.

With this victory, the boost to confidence could finally see a more attacking and cutting edge Scotland surging over the line at will in the Italian sunshine. Fantasy? No, just a replay of the Scots A against Irish A! Talking of which - did Scots A play England's on the weekend?
59

Enigma,

09/03/2008 16:30:37
And I thought rugby was a game, not a re-run of 700 year old grudges.
60

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 16:50:46

Alleged Glasgow Exile "And you should try living abroad - it broadens the mind."

LoL When are you going abroad?

61

Los Angeles,

Edinburgh 09/03/2008 16:53:11

Joanna Coombs: "Well done Scotland. England played badly."

Did you mean to patronise or is it down to two opposing statements too close together?

62

Joanna,

Cambs, England 09/03/2008 16:56:52
65

England played badly, Scotland played better than they have done for some time and especially in this 6 nations.

If you find that comment patrionising, you obviously don't follow rugby and you obviously did not watch the match in question.

Scotland have a long way to go to improve their performance, as do England.
63

Enigma,

09/03/2008 16:57:47
49

Hardly mentioned in the `English` press. What papers did you look at? Not the Observer, Telegraph, Times or Mail. The shambles that was yesterday`s England Rugby team is a cause of national shame, I mean like loosing to a brownie troop! The same papers also mention England`s humiliation at the hannds of the NZ Cricket Team. Biased reporting? Well if you`ve a mind to an insult you`ll soon find one.
64

"Scotty",

Usa 09/03/2008 16:59:57
Tp ALL English BBC broadcasters; STUFF IT.
.
Very many congratulations to the Scottish Rugby Team and coaches. Fantastic result.
65

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 17:02:03


65 Joanna History Buff Cambs

If you cannot make a fulsome compliment do not make it at all.



66

Joanna,

09/03/2008 17:07:47
69

Ah obviously not a rugby fan, otherwise you would be able to look at your team objectively.

I congratulated Scotland on the win but they still need to improve their game as any of the real rugby fans who comment on here will agree.

Anyway, you are obviously a wee man with a vendetta... on you go.... fill your sporran.



67

indune1,

09/03/2008 17:10:25
It was the type of game that our southern hemispehere cousins love to hold up as an example of how rugby should not be played. Boring, boring, boring.

That said. Congratulations to Scotland.
68

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 09/03/2008 17:11:39
You are right Los Angeles. You lot over there in la la land wouldn't recognise that the clue is in the timing of posts as the world wakes up would you. Wha's like us eh..arguing amongst oursleves as ever..wha's like us. Well done Scotland. Goodnight from the desert.
69

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 17:20:57

72: Glagow Expat. "What does the "pat" stand for in your web moniker? Not something you might stand in, I trust.

From where are you posting, Marbella?

Lots of nice English pubs there, "mate," pint ov Newcastle Brown, wiv some fish 'n chips, lurvely. Them Spanyards don't 'alf have pongy breffs - eh?




70

Malc.F,

france 09/03/2008 17:23:20
No Joanna I do not say that Southern Hemisphere are corrupt but what I do say is that England nearly always get a SH ref in the 6 nations and I would like to know why.
To give an example yesterdays Irish v Wales game was reffed by an Englishman and todays France v Italy by an Irishman and if you check this out over many years you will find that this is nearly always the case.
I have said that I think the reason for this is that England feel that they won't get a square deal from a European ref but a more sinister man than myself could suspect that SH ref is more used to reffing matches where constant offside play and spoiling ata the breakdown is the norm and this might suit England.
Whatever the reason the fact is England for the last few years get a SH ref and there has to be a reason.
Also you must admit that Kaplan was terrible yesterday but he at least confused England more than Scotland.
Incidentally the reason that my posts to the Telegraph are, well, quieter is that they don't print them if they deem them to be anti English.
71

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 17:24:20

70 Joanna

No, if the compliment sticks in your gullet don't speak it.

The more you counter-balance it wil reasons other than they won by sheer skill, the more you sound like a patronising prig. And I am sure you do not mean to be that.

"Well, Mr Mozart, wonderful opera, only ... only ... too many notes."

"There are just enough notes to create the opera, Your Majesty."

72

A Voice From SCOTLAND ;o),

SAOR ALBA. 09/03/2008 17:28:46
Balshaws double knee in the head of Rory Lamont was disgusting and life threatening. If as some people are trying to make out it was accidental, why did Balshaw take the ball from the arms of an unconscious Lamont and pass it to go for a try? Instead of putting the ball out of play. He knew exactly what he had done. He should have been red carded and cited for his thuggish play.

England were once more undone by their arrogance at Murrayfield, and deserved their humiliation. White, Blair and Hines were truly magnificent. The tackles made by White and Hines went a long way to stunning the English and killing their arrogance stone dead. Shock and awe used to great effect.

The whole Scottish team showed a spirit and composure that was truly inspiring and will do their confidence no harm at all. Thanks guys.
73

A Voice From SCOTLAND ;o),

09/03/2008 17:33:27
67 Enigma,09/03/2008 16:57:47

You have the whiff of a rancid fud plug about you.
74

Enigma,

09/03/2008 17:38:20
76

Proved my point then haven`t you squire. You have the whiff of stale chips, on both shoulders.
75

Enigma,

09/03/2008 17:38:40
77

I meant you
76

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 17:40:03

78 Enigma - but no variation.

"Squire"? There's a good effnik word.

77

Joanna,

09/03/2008 17:41:37
75 - you didn't watch it in LA did you?

Malc F

Thanks for reply. Steve Walsh (NZ) reffed the match England v France and the commentators said that he had, had anger counselling over issues with England in previous games. Do you know anything about this, it sounds quite interesting?

Re the Telegraph, I have seen anti-English comments on there quite often when there is a political debate on the break up of the UK or something similar. (I have also seen anti-Scottish comments as well, in case any of the more touchy posters on here want to throw that at me).

The Telegraph's comments board would be far more interesting, however, if they let comments go straight on as the Scotsman do.

Back to the rugby - will Scotland beat Italy do you think? Will England beat Ireland? Do you think the Calcutta Cup match is an indicator of the results for these games?
78

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 17:45:22

75 Joanna

No - you are still unable to be gracious.

England are a superb team. Even when they play badly they are very good. To suggest Scotland won because of some abberation in England's skill is to patronise, and worse, to belittle your own team.

As for we Scots:

There is far greater pleasure in seeing a small nation win, than a big nation win yet again in the same manner as before.



79

Enigma,

09/03/2008 17:53:44
80

Well squire, it seems it`s you guys who have the obsession with ethnicity. I`ll leave you to sort racial issues for yourselves.
80

Joanna,

Cambs, England 09/03/2008 17:54:34
82

"England are a superb team. Even when they play badly they are very good"


They did not play well, yesterday and they have not been playing well since the 2003 WC, except for on the odd occasion most notably when they beat Australia in the 07 WC and France 2 weeks ago in the 6 nations.

It is a bit pointless discussing this with you as we are going round in circles, so I won't be replying to your posts anymore.
81

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 17:54:48

goodbye
82

indune1,

09/03/2008 18:05:32
Los Angeles - either you are trolling or you don't follow rugby at this level.

England are not a superb team. In fact, they have been very mediocre for the last 4 yrs.

Scotland's current team is not world-class either. Any victory against the English national squad is always sweet but I believe any follower and student of the game would keep the result in perspective.

The match was simply boring.

I believe Joanna was quite right in her observations.

You seem to be mixing politics with sport - always a bad combination.

BTW - Expat means someone of a particular nationality who has emigrated; is working abroad or is a displaced person or an outcast.

In what category do you fit or are you a Yank? If so, that might explain some of your observations about the game.

83

Joanna,

Cambs, England 09/03/2008 18:23:26
Traquir

I tend to stick to the newspaper sites and to be honest hardly ever look at the BBC news site anymore. I dislike their general TV news broadcasts nowadays and I think they sensationalise everything and scaremonger too much. (The big fuss they are making about the weather today is a case in point - trying to keep us all in a 'state of fear'!)

I rarely seek out their views on the internet, although I did have a look after reading your post and you are correct about their coverage.

indune1

Good point - they have been mediocre in the last 4 years, I had doubts about them winning the CC and I commented to that effect on the Scotsman 2 or 3 times last week.

84

Los Angeles,

09/03/2008 18:32:57

86 Indune

Good try.

I used to add "Edinburgh" after my web name but the barely subdued fury that masquerades as debate on the Scotsman forums rendered it irrelevant.

Whether or not Joanna meant to patronise is immaterial, it was patronising.

I am pointing up an attitude that needs a lot of self-awareness. It is no different to the commentator suggesting Scotland won because they were on their home ground, fans behind them. It had nothing to do with superiour play on the day.

Think the logic through - are we to believe when England lose at Twickenham, stadium crammed with cheering fans, English fans are somehow inadequate, without that magic touch of Scottish fans? And when we lose before our fans - what does that mean?

I'll tell you: It means Joanna and the commentator are talking baloney.

A compliment is a compliement. It is NOT a compliment when it comes with conditions and caveats. In that case it is mean-spirited.

















85

indune1,

09/03/2008 18:37:59

88 Joanna -

Once and awhile a team needs to be shaken up. England's performance at the WC was admirable but not inspiring. They were simply outplayed and outclassed by the S. AFricans.

The English need to introduce new blood, speed and creativity. Saki is a good start.

Swing low ......
86

indune1,

09/03/2008 18:44:55

Los Angeles - GTF!

You are fixated on the fans. Any professional athlete will tell you that a rabid following - supporters - or in your lingo, fans - is like having a 12th player on the soccer pitch or a 7th player for an ice hockey team.

As to a logic thread, your last posting was a pretty thin example.

Forget that. Joanna was absolutely spot-on with her informed remarks on the quality of the play, the calibre of the teams and general tone or nature of the match.
87

Conan the Librarian™,

09/03/2008 18:50:02