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Russell admits secession poll lacks support

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Published Date: 22 February 2009
By Tom Peterkin Scottish Political Editor
SCOTLAND'S new 'Minister for Independence' has admitted he does not know how the SNP will get enough support to get the Referendum Bill through Holyrood.
Major cracks appeared in the SNP's most important policy when Mike Russell acknowledged the struggle he faces to win MSPs' backing for a 2010 referendum – the vote that lies at the heart of the SNP's desire for an independent Scotland.

In an inter
view with Scotland on Sunday, the Culture, External Affairs and Constitution Minister announced he would be stepping up the SNP's drive for constitutional change by setting out the economic arguments for independence over the coming months.

But Russell appeared to concede that a referendum bill could fall at the first hurdle: "The bill would require a majority; where that majority came from it is far too early to say."

The SNP's opponents have argued that constitutional wrangling would create more instability during a time of economic crisis.

The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats are against a referendum. Under Wendy Alexander, Labour said the SNP should "bring it on", but the position of the party under new leader Iain Gray is that the "referendum ship has sailed".

Murdo Fraser, deputy leader of the Scottish Tories, said: "This is the first crack in the wall. The Nationalists know that the referendum is not going to happen. They should drop it now."

Tavish Scott, the Lib Dem leader, said: "If the minister has no idea where he'll get parliamentary support, then using the SNP's previous rules, they should dump plans for a referendum."



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  • Last Updated: 21 February 2009 10:35 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

webwise,

Scotland 21/02/2009 19:09:13
"Major cracks appeared in the SNP's most important policy when Mike Russell acknowledged the struggle he faces to win MSPs' backing for a 2010 referendum."

Eh? This has been the case since the SNP won the election. Every policy relies on the support of Unionist parties.

The referendum is no different, unlike LIT though support in the chamber is in a state of flux. Labour initially against, then for, now we don't know.

the Lib Dems may favour a three option referendum ...

In other words, The SOS have contrived a ridiculous anti SNP headline.
2

RufusT-Firefly,

21/02/2009 22:39:15
#1 The referendum is a busted flush.

Salmond does not even want one as he knows there would be a reesounding 'NO' vote.

His escape route, like with the LIT, will be that they could not have one due to the SNP being a minority administration.
3

Jimmy Le Pie,

22/02/2009 00:05:17
#2

How's your blueteeth Rufus??
4

Curley Bill,

22/02/2009 00:07:36
The headline might as well have read:
'Mike Russell says the Tories, LibDems and Labour are unionist parties.'
Well, no sh*t, Sherlock.
5

RufusT-Firefly,

22/02/2009 00:12:22
3 Jimmy Le Pie,22/02/2009 00:05:17
#2

How's your blueteeth Rufus??
===============================================

Eh?
6

,

22/02/2009 00:27:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

,

22/02/2009 00:49:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Brian Hill,

22/02/2009 01:28:51
The Referendum Bill will be introduced after the European Elections and during the run up to the UK General Election.

The SNP will be seen to have done well in Europe and be riding high in the Scottish Polls.

Do we really think the unionist parties, especially Labour, will want to antagonise the Scottish electorate further by denying them the chance to decide there own future?

In the immortal words of Macauly Culkin:

I DON'T THINK SO!!

I think we'll find getting the Bill through might be easier than we all imagine.
9

Sheilz,

22/02/2009 01:35:12
Another anti-Scottish government headline from the Scotsman. Sensationalism more suited to the tabloids. Then again what's new? Rabid unionists all of them.
With Brown and his corrupt crew at the helm of HMG support for Independence gathers apace. From rantings on the Telegraph forums it would seem that quite a few of our English neighbours feel the same and want to keep the Scots north of 'The Wall'. Evidently we are everything that is wrong with England. Some cheerful souls demanding passports and visas. Clearly we Scots are a scourge! From their very poor knowledge of the composition of the House of Commons which offers very limited opportunity for Scots to determine which party rules I fear the English education system is failing its public.
10

LEAL,

22/02/2009 07:48:00
I really dont see how the unionist parties can deny a referendum.It would be a terrible attitude to take towards the majority of people in Scotland who want a referendum.
11

RufusT-Firefly,

22/02/2009 08:12:16
11 LEAL,22/02/2009 07:48:00
I really dont see how the unionist parties can deny a referendum.It would be a terrible attitude to take towards the majority of people in Scotland who want a referendum.
=======================================================

Majority?

How do you know that?
12

The Tin Man,

22/02/2009 08:41:43
From the Times:

"Gray said the SNP’s referendum plans were designed “purely for the nationalists’ own party political advantage. It is not about the principle of letting the Scottish people have a say”.

Tavish Scott, the Scottish Lib Dem leader, said: “Any politician who spends time and money putting to the country a referendum on the constitution when people are losing their jobs will get killed by the electorate and rightly so.”

Annabel Goldie, the Scottish Tory leader, said: “A referendum is not on our agenda. We will oppose Alex Salmond’s bill.”

Unsurprisingly, the main opposition party's are not deviating from the policy they held when elected.

End of story until next time.
13

Gussie Fink-Nottle,

22/02/2009 08:56:42
#13 Tin Man, we need only win once. It's time.
14

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 22/02/2009 09:42:04
The raison d'etre of the SNP is Independence.

Its Highly unlikely to happen, but IF the SNP dropped plans for an Independence Referendum meantime, and went into the next Scottish Parliament Elections on this basis, and pledged to provide good government, then it might well confound everyone and win another term?

However, if it holds an Independence Referendum in the middle of a deep depression then the Scots Electorate might well never forgive the party, and
end their dream forever.

In 2007, the Scots did not vote for the Nationalists because they wanted a separate State but because they were fed up with the boring, lacklustre Labour/Lib-Dem coalitions.

The Scots Unionist Electorate handed a golden opportunity to the Nationalists. The party should think hard and long before it throws away the "freedom to achieve freedom"?

15

BIG EYE,

Paisley 22/02/2009 09:43:38
The Referendum Bill will pass or the next Scottish Elections will be dominated by the issue and the Labour and Liberal Parties will be annihilated.

Simple really!
16

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 22/02/2009 10:20:47
There are far most pressing matters confronting the Scottish people right now that I recommend we do hold a referendum on the SNP mantra on so-called independence right now and kill off this fanciful idea once and for all.

The stable union of the nations within these British Isles has now lasted us over 300 years. If narrow minded nationalists fail to recognise the benefits that brings during times of hardship (as now) as well as in times of stability then they never will.

So lets not waste our breath on them any longer, just call their bluff and let the people decide right now I say.
17

frank mcbride,

lusitania 22/02/2009 10:27:40
#15, MLT.

MI! MI! The subversive tentacles of the London Establishment present themselves in Edinburgh.

Don't hold the Referendum, you might lose it!!! The Scottish people might never forgive you!!!

You may wake up in the morning, dead!!!
18

Observer,,

Glasgow 22/02/2009 10:32:15
I'm continually amazed by the lack of insight shown by certain posters. To drop LIT was a pragmatic move, but to apply the same logic to the referendum bill is illogical in the extreme. Mike Russell is merely stating the obvious, that the unionist parties could combine to prevent the passage of the referendum bill. Well, d'oh, we know that. If they want to make that choice then the electorate can judge them for that. But the choice will be presented to them, no amount of equivocation about the imminent depression, or whatever other excuse they can think of, will prevent that.
19

Miss H,

22/02/2009 11:07:33
Last year Labour were supporting a referendum, somthing which every single person with an interest in politics in Scotland is aware of.
20

Miss H,

22/02/2009 11:08:37
17 Love the 'so-called independence' bit. It would be even more effective if you said 'so-called independence for so-called Scotland'.
21

Miss H,

22/02/2009 11:10:12
15 Don't really understand your point. If the people of Scotland think the SNP has done a good job in goverment they will vote them back in whether or not they support independence.
22

European Scot,

22/02/2009 11:50:10
17 Liberal for life ( Sounds like quite a prison sentence, almost as bad as hard Labour )

"I recommend we do hold a referendum on the SNP mantra on so-called independence right now and kill off this fanciful idea once and for all."

SNP mantra ? It's a commitment actually, and the SNP will be putting the referendum forward as promised, and on schedule.
So called Independence ? Well it has been 'so called' by all of those countries around the World that have managed to achieve their own self determination, and freed themselves from external controls, many of them former colonies under the former British Empire. ( A wistful look on your part at this point perhaps ? )
Not too many of these latter examples seem to be hurrying back to seek protection from the 'British Isles' during these ' times of instability'.
There is nothing fanciful about Scotland becoming an Independent Nation, and re-establishing its International credentials as a fully fledged country, just as the rest of those former British colonies have done.
It's people with attitudes like yours that have kept Scotland under British rule for 300 years, and to be perfectly honest, that's hardly something to be proud of.
As for waste of breath, that would seem to be coming from your direction.
23

Munguin,

22/02/2009 12:05:13
If Scott, Goldie and Gray (sounds like a comedy trio) are so confident of a resounding NO what have they got to fear from allowing the referendum?
24

Publius,

Girvan 22/02/2009 14:05:54
#9 Brian Hill

The Euro elections will have little or no effect on whether there is a referendum. Two/thirds of the electors won't even vote in the Euro elections.
And there is not much chance of a referendum in 2010. The SNP won't be able to get a referendum through Holyrood ... and Alex knows it.
The whole conversation thing and now a minister for constitutional affairs is a total waste of public money. Why don't the SNP spend the money on filling in potholes on roads in Ayrshire - North, South and East?
25

sjs,

Haddington 22/02/2009 15:09:43
Why do so many people oppose the referendum? I can only see one reason: you fear it will say 'yes', and don't think people should even be allowed to vote on such an important thing. That says a lot about what people think about democracy and humanity.

The only other reason I can think of for opposing it would be the money it will cost to orchestrate, but given how much money the government throws away on other initiatives (and how these are rarely politically attacked) this referendum will surely be small fry in comparison.

The main issue seems to me therefore to be the fundamental question of democracy and the right to choose. If the unionist parties oppose that on the basis of scare mongering and negative arguing (Scotland is a parasite and should stay a parasite) it will only increase the support for the more positive and hopeful vision independence has.

People must accept that it is not a choice between financial ruin and financial heaven. The issues are far more complicated. Just as being part of Britain means the bail out of the banks, it also means the carrying of the debt of Britain, the 'throw money away' culture continues.

The debate should be about democracy, the right to choose, the future of Scotland, and whether independence would work to force Scots to stop relying on the English comfort zone and to start standing up for itself. If that means a tough period at the beginning then so be it. For me Scotland is not and never should be thought of as a parasite; independence is the much needed foot up the bahookie needed to end the throw away culture and take responsibility.

So let's have some vision and not depression. Let's have the referendum! And let's also have a proper debate about it. The Scotsman clearly isn't interesetd...
26

Gorach,

Fort William 22/02/2009 16:03:55
Aye, there may be a parasite in these islands but it is not Scotland.

27

Dave B,

Edinburgh 22/02/2009 17:06:04
Don't the liberal 'democrats' realize the hypocrisy of their position when they refuse to allow a democratic vote.
They are losing all credibility in Scotland.
28

,

22/02/2009 19:59:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
29

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

22/02/2009 23:32:03
Well it goes without saying that the opposition could easily vote the bill down. The question is , will they? Labour have already said that they would support a referendum and will lose face if having demanded the SNP to 'bring it on', suddenly turn tail and flee when the government call their bluff. The liberals have a history of supporting referendum, on the other hand also have a history of two facedness and inconsistency; The Tories-well who knows?
Nothing is decided yet.
30

redcliffe62,

23/02/2009 05:49:46
the recession and corruption and expenses claim gets people really annoyed.
the snp on the surface appear to be less corriupt than the others. no doubt they have their share of malingerers as well but as of now the tories and labour parties are seen as the worst.
in a recession when people arew struggling they will vote on this issue, where honesty and integrity is as important as political affiliation.
it is not the snp who messed up the finances in london, and blaming the snp will not work evn at the most simplistic scare mongering level at this time.
despite the sterling efforts of some journalists!
i think the problem for labour is that they are now concerned they might lose, people are hurting and brown has screwed the economy up by bad decision making, and you only agree to a referendum if the result is contrived in advance.
31

Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 00:44:05
The referendum is a busted flush. (Rufus the Dufus)

Good start, Dufus, but needs more ... punch. Have you no sexual innuendo to throw in the mix? Try harder.
Yours,
Frankenstein's McBride.


32

Brianwci,

19/04/2009 01:36:44
Russell admits secession poll lacks support

Admits? What's to admit, of course there is not enough support.....AT THE MOMENT.

But after Labour takes a hammering at the Euros and the English locals and are seen to be withering in polls north and south of the border and with a General election looming in May of 2010 you WILL find a definite change of heart from the unionists, particularly from London Labour re the Referendum Bill.

Like, who is going to be brave or stupid enough in January/February/March 2010 to deny the people of Scotland the RIGHT to a say in their own future and then expect those same voters to support their Westminster colleagues in a General election 6/7 weeks later and those very MSPs a year later still?

Not too many, thus the Referendum Bill will pass.

 

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