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Salmond says Scots two-thirds of way to 'freedom'

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Published Date: 03 May 2009
ALEX Salmond has declared that Scotland is "two-thirds" of the way down the road to independence, hailing the "extraordinary" progress made by the SNP since devolution.
Marking the 10th anniversary of the first Scottish election, the First Minister said the prospect of splitting up the United Kingdom is now closer than at any time since the Act of Union was signed in 1707.

"I think Scotland's closer to independen
ce than it's been for 300 years," Salmond said.

He also paid tribute to nationalists like Winnie Ewing, who made a breakthrough by winning the 1967 Hamilton by-election, her late daughter-in-law Margaret Ewing and Allan Macartney, the late MEP who was the party's deputy leader. Salmond said those figures would be gratified by the progress the SNP had made after decades of political obscurity.

"We've had the party around for the best part of 70 to 80 years now and… all these years for them to get self-government on the agenda would have been an achievement.

"So if we take the Parliament as step one, the SNP Government as step two – step three is independence and I think we are two-thirds of the way there."

Salmond's comments – to be broadcast on Clyde 2 and Forth 2 radio stations today at 1am – provoked an angry response from Iain Gray, the Scottish Labour leader.

He said:

"During the worst economic crisis since the war, the rest of Scotland is planning for recovery but Alex Salmond is planning for a referendum.

"Separate from the rest of the UK, our banks and building societies would have vanished, losing all the jobs, mortgages and savings. It's not that big countries are immune from the recession – look at America – it's that they have the strength to recover faster."





The full article contains 305 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 02 May 2009 6:49 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Scottish independence
 
1

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 00:47:28
Salmond bleats every 5 minutes about £500 Million spending cuts but he still has time and money to waste on a doomed referendum.

As usual, Salmond's ideology comes first whilst the people of Scotland come a very poor second.
2

,

03/05/2009 00:50:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

The Online Scot,

Scotland 03/05/2009 00:50:23
Certainly Scotland is closer to self government now than at any point since 1707, two thirds? maybe - maybe not.

One thing is clear, Scotland has not fared well when compared to other countries of similar size and resources.

The dire state of the UK economy, caused in part by the refusal of successive Westminster governments to invest in the future, will hit Scotland again.

We lost a generation in the eighties at a time when the revenue from oil was paying the unemployment benefits for the whole of the UK.

Now, almost 30 years on, there is still over fifty years of oil reserves left - consolodated by the MASSIVE renewable potential.

We musn't let London squander our resources again !!
4

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 00:53:07
'Two-thirds' eh, I wonder how he measured that.

I suppose it is a bit like Swinney's claim that Scotland has 25% of Europes wave power!

Ha Ha Ha Ha
5

frank mcbride,

lusitania 03/05/2009 00:54:52
Ruff-ruff.

That rumpus in your head isn't doing a lot for your happiness, is it?

Still bemoaning the fact that you haven't the confidence to let go of yer mammy's apron string.

Go on, son. Give it a go. You know it will ake you a happier person.
6

Brianwci,

03/05/2009 00:56:22
Iain Gray says: "During the worst economic crisis since the war, the rest of Scotland is planning for recovery but Alex Salmond is planning for a referendum."

That's like someone saying in the 1920s, all this unemployment and you're running off to America. How is that going to get you a job in the dockyard?

Answer: It isn't, it's going to get me a new life in America which will include a job and financial security for me and my family.

INDEPENDENCE IS OUR ROUTE TO THE NEW LAND

VOTE YES in the REFERENDUM
7

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 00:56:54
Good Evening Frank. Where have you been for the last few weeks?
8

frank mcbride,

lusitania 03/05/2009 01:14:51
Hi Rumpus.

If you must know, I've been away seeking a deep depression (clinical) after all the amusement received reading the comments of yourself, smee, AM2 and Smithy inter alia.

It's a Catholic thing, you see. One has to do penance for ones sins; one should not take pleasure from others afflictions.

But, penance done, I have returned for more amusement at you and your fellow travellers' expense.
9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 03/05/2009 01:24:43


"Salmond says Scots two-thirds of way to 'freedom'"

"In your Dreams"!,

The very ones that you 'Needed their Vote', are NO-MORE, in the last few years they are now out of the equation forever, with the constant attacking of them.

"Chocolate Tax"!

"Lets Hide The Ciggy's Under the Counter"!

"You can have a Mortgage, Fight a War, be Married with 2.2 Children, but we will not let you Purchase Alcohol"!

Aye! "two-thirds", to self-destruction, More the Likes!



10

PatG,

Russia 03/05/2009 01:31:54
What have Scotland got from Labour..............lots of low paid public sector jobs and an invasion of foreign beggars invited to join our dole queue's. What will we get if the the Tories get in.........they will cut the low paid public sector jobs. Look at what's on offer to our young people leaving schools and universities?...........not a lot.
Even in the current economic climate Scotland must take it's chance. We just cant be any worse off.
11

Edward,

03/05/2009 01:35:10
I see the usual suspects unionists on here
The fact is that Scotland may well be two thirds on the way back to being an Independent State.
The comment from Iain Gray are completely laughable!
This is Iain Gray, who can only command an approval rating of 7%, which is lower than what Wendy Alexander had. This is Iain Gray, leader of the Labour party in Holyrood, whose party has an all time low approval rating in Scotland and whose party are in a mess accross the UK, which will loose the next General Election.
Iain Gray is completly out of touch as he doesnt seem to understand that Alex Salmond and the rest of the Scottish Government are working hard to get Scotland through the resession,as apposed to Labour who are in fighting and only worried about their own careers!
'Separate from the rest of the UK' states Gray,opitomises his lack of understanding that the UK is only England and Scotland, so if Scotland is Independent, there is NO United Kingdom. Gray fails to understand that it was as and being the United Kingdom nder Labour that the UK is now a basket case. An Independent Scotland would have stood a better chance of dealing with a global resession.
12

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 01:38:22
11 And you think people will base their decision upon whether Scotland should cast off the union upon the location of cigarettes in shops ?

7. Precisely. Why can't the unionists get this through their heads. Independence is not a side-bar, a distractions, from the economic realities facing us. For supporters of independence it is a necessity for the recovery process. We need independence if we are going to deal with the worst economic crisis since the War. Gray seems to assume that the pursuit ofScottish self-determination is some kind of frivolous gesture that can be set aside when things are tough, like deciding not to renew the curtains. He really doesn't get it at all.
13

Mogwai Fear Santa,

03/05/2009 01:40:03
Rusty T Stuckfly is obviously a crackhead.

There is no other explanation for the sense leaking out of his cranium like a pound shop milk jug.

Why he sits in his derelict shed, anxiously awaiting the opportunity to be first commenter on every political story going, like some smack-craved rat in a test maze, is beyond me. But is perhaps something his therapist can give some guidance on.
14

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 01:49:12
15 Rufus: so much effort for so little effect. Of course it helps if you understand basic realities like the SNP were elected to pursue independence for Scotland in any economic context. That seems to have passed Rufus by somewhere.
15

Castaway™ ,

03/05/2009 01:57:08
#13 Edward - Good posting

1st step:Devolution - Scottish Parliament

2nd step: SNP - Scottish Government - Referendum

3rd step - Independence

As long as the SNP are in power/returned to power then the 3rd step is a distinct possibility, more than it was it was prior to May 2007.
16

Am Fògarrach,

03/05/2009 02:05:38
Rufus and all other trolls:

Read the entire Murray Ritchie article 'Holyrood proves its lasting worth' in this paper. The final paragraph is the punchline.
17

FerryPort,

03/05/2009 02:22:51
rufus # 1
I didn't see the words £500 million bleated at all in this article.

It's time to find new true freinds, all pulling together for us all. SNP folk. Meet us, we can do a 1 2 1 if that would help?

you are truly welcome and charles too


18

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 02:32:11
Salmond comes up with his numbers by using his travel roulette wheel
19

Castaway™ ,

03/05/2009 02:34:59
#18 Am Fògarrach - Well worth reading

Murray Ritchie: Holyrood proves its lasting worth.

Here is the last paragraph from that article:-
They said 30 years ago Scotland would never have its own Parliament because the people did not want it and if they did it would never work. And when it happened they said it would all be a failure. And now the same people are saying the Scottish Parliament will never lead to independence. Want to bet ?

http://tinyurl.com/dbmpqm
20

brian mcc,

Gilmore 03/05/2009 02:52:56
How do you define 2/3rd freedom?

The emerald isle has 2/3rd claim coming due in 2016.

To my Celtic brothers & sisters, sieze the day.

Gaelic
21

FerryPort,

03/05/2009 03:03:28
kid's r alright

where can I buy a travel roulette wheel?
E-bay?
sounds great fun for the kids over the holiday weekend
22

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 03:10:41
#23

Hard to find these days.

Used to be an intergal part of every Christmas stocking.

That and your Chocolate Orange.


I have a large collection, all authentic replicas from the big tables around the world

23

FerryPort,

03/05/2009 03:10:42
brian my celtic bro
we are trying and do believe that we will be free of our greedy, bullying neighbour.

Unfortunately our skirt tails are too pleasant to let go
It's hard to shake the feckers off.
They are sucking our very life, from us and our children

Got too depressed, enough.
24

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 03:22:04
Salmond is a man who couldn't keep a self-winding watch on time, and he is claiming be a leader.


25

FerryPort,

03/05/2009 03:24:33
Vista, with nae vision
"4th step - Hyperinflation then bankruptcy"

Oh that's hyper-hilarious. Can't wait to tell the kids that when they get older.

Forget the hype. BANKCRUPT we are.
26

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 03:30:33
27 Do you have an ouija board too, and you let it make your posts for you, dead spirits summoning up random nonsense ? Very seventies, very fashionable.
27

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 03:32:45
There is a fine line between being bankrupt and being insolvent, but the implications of the difference are clear.




28

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 03:34:07
#29

I have cheese cloth shirts as well
29

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 03:34:12
25 You have a large collection of authentic fake roulette wheels.

That is just such a brilliant post I thought it deserved recognition.
30

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 03:35:28
31 You probbly have Genesis albums too ? Yes ?
31

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 03:44:04
#33

Not one of my favourite bands. Never bought an album of theirs.

Prefer the blues based stuff
32

John Ross,

Canada 03/05/2009 03:47:39
Just the talk of splitting up the UK is enough to drive away investment moneys. Scotland is not ready for independence because it would hurt the Scots.

For example, before independence jabber Quebec was a rich part of Canada but now it's the poorest. Don't shoot yourselves in the collective foot!
33

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 03:54:59
#35

John

But think of all the income that pours in from the tourist trade.

There will always be demand for tartan rugs and calendars with pictures of snowy hills and sheep dogs
34

mangrove jack,

Oz 03/05/2009 04:00:39
Hate to debunk what you are saying Vista. It seems to me that your side of the independence argument specialises in purveying myths and super porkies.

Despite watching the comments of your fellow travelers for months I have not detected a relevent line of reasoning to support the continuation of Scotlands association with the UK
35

John Ross,

Canada 03/05/2009 04:05:03
#37

LOL! That's exactly what a highly advanced region of the world could be reduced to.
36

Phillip,

03/05/2009 04:06:39
The sooner Scotland separates from London the sooner Scottish Oil starts benefiting the Scottish people instead of subsidizing London bankers & politicians.
37

David the Expat,

Perth , Down under 03/05/2009 04:10:42
Good morning moderator , please could you explain why my Mark Renton comment was not published ? Are you now emulating Big Brother Brown and Co ?
38

David the Expat,

Oz 03/05/2009 04:12:36
Maybe Mark Renton was right , its Smite being Scottish , its one thing being viewed as a bunch of Assholes but being fekked over by a bunch of Assholes ( The English ) is worse ! Its a smite state of Affairs.
We are swapping one British Imperialist system for a European Imperialist system which our Overwieght cake loving SNP leader stands for ...where is ever the Independance in that ? We now swapping being ruled by a bunch of closet english toffs to a bunch of people with names like Pierre , Han's and Vladimir ....anything other than outright indepdance is something that emulates the worst ever joke from Monty Python ...you cant have made a better joke if you tried !!!
39

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 04:12:44
#40

With all the new fuels and power sources that are being developed (as we speak), what place will oil have to play?
40

David the Expat,

Oz 03/05/2009 04:13:11
Now word corrected ..thankyou
41

David the Expat,

03/05/2009 04:21:41
Post 47 IndependentlyInclined finally someone with some Brains ...8th Item Please hold dear
42

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 04:22:21
I can just see it now.

The Queen hands over Mary Queen of Scots bones in an ivory box, which was captured from the Zulus
43

Hmmm..,

Bank of England 03/05/2009 04:36:34
I think its a joke. Scotland is a desert.

1. Scottish towns are dead
2. Economy is worst hit in Scotland and takes us longer to recover
3. We have a culture of drink, drugs and heart disease
4. Our support for sport - a global commodity - outwith the rancid Old Firm, is non-existent
5. You can't even change Scottish bank notes abroad.

We can't stand on our own two feet, let alone walk, yet Salmon would like Scotland to run off in the sunset disguised as Mel Gibson, shouting you can tak our lives but ye canae tak our freedom!

There's a deep irony in Braveheart.

44

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 04:41:11
#48

Some truth there.

Post the great days of Stanley Baxter and the Bay City Rollers, Scotland hasn't produced any internationally recognised exportable material
45

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 05:53:50
I see our unionist friends on here coming out with the usual drivel.
We are too weak ,too stupid ,too poor to be Independent.
Hyperinflation, bankruptcy,Scotland is a desert, we cannot speak correctly so you cannot be independent.
My ,my these old chestnuts, do you lot never learn?
In 2007 we were all goibg to get a £5,000 tax bill if we elected the SNP.
Instead of that we all get a £26,000 tax bill for being in the union.

Westminster is imploding , £17,000 car expenses for Jim Devine who actually pays out £60 in return.
Second homes , vacant homes , saunas, paying for parents homes.

We have more debt in Uk government than any other developed nation.

The accumulative debt of all governments since the union in 1707 ,incuding 2 world wars was less than we have borrowed now.

Our Prime minister is a joke throughout the world be ridiculed and rebuked in Pakistan,Chile and Poland.
You lot of unionists want us to stay in that?

You are having a laugh!!!

Saor Alba
46

David the Expat,

Perth Oz 03/05/2009 05:54:07
IndependentlyInclined youve jumped the Gun my friend , i too find Kevin07'S behaviour very odd, why spend Billions on Defence when the Chinese or any other jack can come through the front door buy your families Siver then have one by the balls as it were !
I find the situation very Unfunny a mix i guess of Globalist Marxist Nerds , Greedy Co Ops and MP's with double digit IQ'S turn our world and structure into a situation we have now
Waht do you expect of my Country anyway when the two blokes in charge of the country are named Kevin and Wayne
47

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 06:07:52
Salmond's first mistake was not his shoes, but his suit.

After that, he did everything wrong
48

,

03/05/2009 06:09:35
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49

,

03/05/2009 06:11:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
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50

,

03/05/2009 06:15:19
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51

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 06:19:22
Uri Geller once produced a picture from a sealed envelope with a drawing of the Blue Peter studio, which had not been prepared before the show.

What does Salmond do for a living?


52

,

03/05/2009 06:25:15
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53

,

03/05/2009 06:26:30
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54

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 06:31:50
#67

Perhaps


The cut is not right.


Before we sway of the main topic, why isn't Salmond making any comment on Mexico?




55

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 06:42:14
Hard to beat G. Marx joke


56

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 03/05/2009 06:53:26
"Salmond says Scots two-thirds of way to 'freedom'"
He would say that, wouldn't he?
57

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 07:01:19
Salmond is trying to dish out the Spoon Full of Sugar stuff.


Surely the Scottish voters will not fall for that old trick again
58

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 07:03:14
#72 BTO welcome back.

59

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 07:08:13
Yes Salmond wants independence from England so that he can sign away our rights to Brussels.

In his imaginary Scotland, we would be part of the Eurozone and therefore at the mercy of the European policy makers.

Some independence that.
60

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 07:17:03
RTF

Had a few matters to deal with.

61

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 07:20:16
#52 Vista spot on.

Whenever you see a Scottish member of the public being interviewed on Tv, they make no attempt to modify the way they speak. Especially anywhere West of Edinburgh. They do not seem to think it is worth allowing the viewer a chance to understand what they are saying.

Salmond has even been guilty of this in FMQ with the use of 'cannae' and 'dinnae'.

It is totally embarrassing.
62

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 07:23:52
#77 Have you noticed that all the SNP front bench have Salmond suits now??

When I put on First Ministers Questions last week I thought I had switched on the Sopranos by mistake.
63

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 03/05/2009 07:24:34
"Devolution will kill Nationalism stone dead"
(George Robertson, Baron Robertson of Port Ellen, former Secretary of State for Scotland).

10 years later, the people of Scotland elected the SNP as the first Nationalist Government of Scotland.

The genie is now out of the bottle and the discredited unionist cringers are in full retreat.
We are very fortunate here in Scotland in having Alex Salmond, the most impressive politician of his generation, as our First Minister.

After all, consider the alternatives from the Unionist parties..................................
64

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 07:31:38
RTF

All tailor-made
65

,

03/05/2009 07:34:57
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66

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 07:35:17
Woolworths were planning to have the Action Man set with a "Salmond suit" as part of the their marketing plan to save the company.

Pick and mix....
67

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 07:37:56
78
Good Morning Rufus; like Paulus and Varro, ye are on a hiding tae nothing.
68

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 07:41:47
I see rufus kids alright ,vista can only use personal attackes to stop us all voting SNP.
How bizarre ,you would think if the union is so brilliant and SNP so bad they could win the debate with policie ,vision ,hope .
Guess it just confirms our fight is right.
Mandela was a terrorist, so was George Washington and Ghandi so I suppose these attacks on Alex Salmond are ok
69

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 07:42:31
Conan how are you this sunny morning? I notice you did not fall into my 'Eurozone Trap' on this occasion!
70

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 07:48:22
Scottish and Proud, i am surprised you are still showing your face on here after your 'rugby player public school' gaffe on the £100K donation story.

Your face must be as red as my local pillar box.
71

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 07:50:17
#85 Oh, and for the record, no one is stopping you wasting your vote on the SNP.
72

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 03/05/2009 07:52:27
Alex, we know that you are a gambling man but even you would not back independence at 1/2, would you? Thought not.
73

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 07:53:11
86
Bait it with beer in future, a nice Belgian Trappiste or a Germaan bock.
Just to keep things in the Eurozone.
74

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 03/05/2009 07:55:43
I say to the unionists KEEP DIGGING!! I'm enjoying the empty attacks on independence - the Budget should have told everyone the union is BANKRUPT.
75

Gtj,

03/05/2009 08:03:08
Please, please, please can we stay in the union, I just love paying for Labour MP's bath plugs, porn videos and saunas - its what I live for.

I didn't get where I am today without being crapped on constantly by Labour.
76

,

03/05/2009 08:05:44
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77

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 08:14:10
87 au contraire Rufus i have posted yet again there feel free to look.
As to being embarrassed I would suggest you of all people should be aware of the phrase greenhouses and stones perhaps?
Does not detract from my point on here you have no substance ,no vision ,no policies nothing to offer the Scottish nation but more of the same failed WEstminster corrupt garbage.
The SNP on the other hand offer vision ,hope ,leadership ,honesty ,integrity.
You should try it sometime it is uplifting .
Get youself out of the sewer that is Westminster and join the enlightened.
We are the future your union has had its day ,way past its sell by date now
Saor alba
78

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 08:16:14
See that Brown has some new navy blue slacks


Things are picking up
79

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 08:21:17
Ah sm753 the second shift is here, more negativiety.
Nothing positive to say about the union sm753?
Can you only post against Scotland and SNP.

You cannot give us reasons to remain in the rotting union.
Did today's latest revelations of more expenses fiddling by Labour Scottish MPs not got you seeing the light?
How much of the brown stuff do they need to drop on your head before you wake up and smell the coffee?
80

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 03/05/2009 08:22:09
89 W U Merchant,

“Alex, we know that you are a gambling man but even you would not back independence at 1/2, would you? Thought not.”



At odds of 1/2, you must believe that Independence is now the favourite in this particular race.

A rather “odd” admission for a confirmed Unionist such as yourself.

81

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 08:23:01
90 Conan the Librarian™,03/05/2009 07:53:11
86
Bait it with beer in future, a nice Belgian Trappiste or a Germaan bock.
Just to keep things in the Eurozone.
======================================================

Indeed Conan. I holiday in Germany every year and nothing can beat the German beers. The stuff you get here is like coloured water in comparison.
82

MoiraMac,

03/05/2009 08:25:06
An SNP candidate called on me yesterday. He was hot,hot,hot so he'll be getting my vote.
Alex is quite cute too in a chubby faced sort of way.
mwah! mwah!
83

,

03/05/2009 08:28:13
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84

Don Roberto,

03/05/2009 08:28:55
This is a most incredible thread, the smell of fear emanating from the dependence junkies is nigh on palpable. The cat is out the bag, independence is coming.

The SNP have proven that they are capable of governing Scotland well with a minority government against an overwhelmingly anti-SNP opposition. Here we sit on the snd anniversary of the SNP winning the election and the poll ratings are higher for us than before the election. Ha, independence is coming yet.
85

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 08:30:29
94 Scottish and Proud,Glasgow 03/05/2009 08:14:10
87 au contraire Rufus i have posted yet again there feel free to look.
=====================================================

Yes I had a look but I did not see your apology for making such an erroneous claim.
86

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 08:32:32
104 Don Roberto,03/05/2009 08:28:55
This is a most incredible thread, the smell of fear emanating from the dependence junkies is nigh on palpable. The cat is out the bag, independence is coming.

The SNP have proven that they are capable of governing Scotland well with a minority government against an overwhelmingly anti-SNP opposition. Here we sit on the snd anniversary of the SNP winning the election and the poll ratings are higher for us than before the election. Ha, independence is coming yet.
=====================================================

Yes indeed.

That will be why they took such a pasting in the Bannockburn By-election last Thursday evening.
87

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 08:38:28
10
Certainly I have not seen all of Mr Smith's posts, but all the ones recently (that I have seen) have hit the nail on the head.5 Rufus

and Mr smiths contribution


Mr Salmond spent 6.4 million quid on gay rights groups and the rest to a muslim 'charity' which isn't a charity.

Thats 6 million to the gay rights and 400,000 smackers to Osama Saeed ... I mean Saeed's charity

You support this kind of rascist homophobic outburst?

88

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 08:40:05
Come on Rufus try and give us something positive about the union not just anti SNP ,anti cotland rants.
If your beloved union is so great tell us why
89

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/05/2009 08:41:00
#81 Charles,

"All tailor-made"

Jealous are we? I am sure you look smashing in your Charity Shop Cardigan.


90

Brideun,

Culloden 03/05/2009 08:41:44
Salmond - love him or hate him. Need more information about his connections, e.g. The Royal Bank and why apparent silence on this subject? We need to know!
91

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 08:43:37
108 Scottish and Proud,Glasgow 03/05/2009 08:40:05
Come on Rufus try and give us something positive about the union not just anti SNP ,anti cotland rants.
If your beloved union is so great tell us why
=====================================================

It would take all day.

But plain and simply if it was not for the Union, Scotland would have gone the way of Iceland or Ireland.

Totally Bankrupt.
92

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 03/05/2009 08:44:19
Nationalist politicians have a habit of making rash
forecasts.

Politicians, from past experience, should know only too well that they cannot cajole or will the Electorate into voting for a controversial objective, especially something like constitutional change, unless they really want it.

All the politicians can do is attempt to persuade, or
convince the Electorate, who tend to have a regular habit of doing the very opposite, as recent European Referendums have shown!

However, by no means, is the argument for an independent, sovereign, Scottish State resolved.
This one will run and run!
93

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 08:46:37
107 Scottish and Proud,Glasgow 03/05/2009 08:38:28
You support this kind of rascist homophobic outburst?
=====================================================

Errm, on what grounds is Mr Smiths post either racist or homophobic?

You are typical of the nats on here.

As soon as someone (pre union) mentions donations to Muslim Charities or Gay Organisations then they must be racist or homophobic.

What absolute tosh.

Questions can be asked on these topics just the same as any other topics.
94

Scottish and Proud,

03/05/2009 08:49:25
111 Rufus
It would take all day.

But plain and simply if it was not for the Union, Scotland would have gone the way of Iceland or Ireland.

Totally Bankrupt.


Oh really??
Well i tell you what if there are so many things take 5 minutes and give us a few.
As to Scotland being bakrupt has it crossed yuor tiny little mind that perhaps with proper regulstion like Norway,Sweden ,Denmark ,Australia our financial institutions might just have escaped the mess Westminster non regulation caused??
That an a oil fund protected Norway ,Scotland could have been the same.

Bottom line the mess that is in our banking system originated from London and Thatcher ,Major ,Blair and Brown all carrying on with deregulation and the dismantling of our manufacturing base.

So give us a couple more rufus that one just does not wash!
95

Scottish and Proud,

03/05/2009 08:52:18
Rufus

Errm, on what grounds is Mr Smiths post either racist or homophobic?

You are typical of the nats on here.

As soon as someone (pre union) mentions donations to Muslim Charities or Gay Organisations then they must be racist or homophobic.

What absolute tosh.

Questions can be asked on these topics just the same as any other topics


No Rufus it was just an opportunity for you to join in a smear aka McBride style which is the unionist way.
I repeat again you have nothing to offer but doom .gloom and despondency.
The difference in SNP is hope ,vision and a can do mentality
96

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/05/2009 08:52:21
Funny how Rufus, Vista, KAAR, and their expat fellow travellers John Ross and Dave from Perth can not give one single fact based argument about why Scotland would not be better of Independent.

They moan on about Pin Stripes, Accents and Chips on Shoulders as if they where a reason for continuing a Union that is no longer in Scotland's interests.

You are going to have to do much better than that if you hope to win the referendum.
97

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 08:53:36
117 KampungHighlander,Jakarta 03/05/2009 08:52:21
You are going to have to do much better than that if you hope to win the referendum.
======================================================

What referendum?
98

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 08:54:44
118 Wardog salus populi suprema lex esto,03/05/2009 Your an election campaign managers dream come true rufus.
===================================================

I was expecting you Mr Wardog.......................
99

Nevsky;,

Moscow 03/05/2009 08:57:13
111 Rufus:

Ireland is bankrupt? Well it's nice sunny day here and as i am away for a pint with someone from the Irish Embassy here i will inform him of the news you posted...will come as a surprise to him.

Ireland still has all it's banks though..all of Scotland's are in the hands of Westminster..the only country in Europe without a bank!



100

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 08:58:33
113
Dear Rufus.

I'm a wee bit peed off with my job at the moment, how can I get one like yours?
Do you have to have a ponytail?
Are you are allowed to drink on the job, or is it just compulsory?

Yours Conan.
101

,

03/05/2009 08:58:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
102

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 08:58:45
116 Scottish and Proud,03/05/2009 08:52:18
I repeat again you have nothing to offer but doom .gloom and despondency.
The difference in SNP is hope ,vision and a can do mentality.
===================================================

Well that is your viewpoint and I would not decry you for airing it.

It is a shame that the same standards are not applied when I air my own viewpoints.

103

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:00:27
125 danbob,03/05/2009 08:58:35

It would also help fund the burgeoning public sector along with the 25% of Glasgow that claims Disability Allowance.
104

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:01:06
#124 You a fake Conan?
105

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:02:43
128 Wardog salus populi suprema lex esto,03/05/2009
Will is require more powers?
======================================================

Is that Gaelic or Klingon?



106

MoiraMac,

03/05/2009 09:03:51
103
Rufus-T-Firefly,
03/05/2009 08:28:13

Moira, check this website out.

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/


Cheers Rufus, thanks for the tip. Would you recommend the rose-tinted ones?
107

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:04:59
123 Nevsky;,Moscow 03/05/2009 08:57:13
111 Rufus:

Ireland is bankrupt? Well it's nice sunny day here and as i am away for a pint with someone from the Irish Embassy here i will inform him of the news you posted...will come as a surprise to him.
=====================================================

I would be surprised if he is surprised.
108

Nevsky;,

Moscow 03/05/2009 09:05:25
127 Rufus:

What is happening with Brown? It's great witnessing the downfall of the worst PM in living memory (and one you admire so much woofie).

Read any of the 'serious' papers today woofie? They are tearing Brown to pieces and at last have lost their patience with this anti-social, arrogant and over-inflated bufoon...great chancellor my ar**
109

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 09:05:26
129
Naw, just a wee bit inebri-inbr-pished.
110

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:06:10
131 Wardog salus populi suprema lex esto,03/05/2009 09:02:52
129.Rufus
Do you sometimes feel like a naked man being chased by a pack of angry dogs that you threw stones at?
====================================================

Errrmmmm, never.

Sounds like you may be wanting to tell us about a personal problem of yours?
111

Scottish and Proud,

03/05/2009 09:07:01
126 rufus
Well that is your viewpoint and I would not decry you for airing it.

It is a shame that the same standards are not applied when I air my own viewpoints.
=======================================================That is the problem with you rufus you do not air your viewpoints.
You air your negativeity only.
Scotland cannot afford.....
SNP fund terrorists..........
Ales Salmond is fat Eck......
All nationalists are rascists......
I back any comment that is anti SNP or anti Scotland....

That is about your stretch Rufus.
Never a viewpoint only negatives.
Do you never question yourself?
Day after day no unioinist yourself included can come up with cogent reasons for the union to continue.
Do you in your private moments never ask yuorself
why is that nobody can articulate a good argument for the union beyond scare tactics?
112

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 09:07:23
125 danboob
You mean like maggie t and maggie b do
113

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:08:25
136 Nevsky;,Moscow 03/05/2009 09:05:25
127 Rufus:

What is happening with Brown? It's great witnessing the downfall of the worst PM in living memory (and one you admire so much woofie).

Read any of the 'serious' papers today woofie? They are tearing Brown to pieces and at last have lost their patience with this anti-social, arrogant and over-inflated bufoon...great chancellor my ar**
====================================================

History may tell you that that kind of thing happens when a political party has been in power for such a long period, especially so, during one of the biggest recessions the world has ever seen.
114

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 09:10:43
People like rufus have to be a plant.Only the most blind football inspired voter could be so stupid
115

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:11:10
"Pledges made by Ireland to support its banking sector amount to 220% of the country’s annual economic output. The total loans held in Irish banks are more than 11 times the size of the economy."

From the Times.



116

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:13:13
143 Wardog salus populi suprema lex esto,03/05/2009
Do you feel like a pretty girl who gets all the attention when those nasty gnats all try to respond to your innocent posts.
===================================================

Once again, Errrmmmm, no idea what you are on about.

Sounds like you have personal issues however that you definitely need to deal with.
117

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:14:43
146 Wardog salus populi suprema lex esto,03/05/2009
But Labour have only been in for 12 years and even that was with stretching it through unelected handover of power.
=====================================================

"Unelected handover of power"?

Is that something that is not allowed or illegal?
118

,

03/05/2009 09:15:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
119

Nelson51,

Newcastle 03/05/2009 09:15:08
"Salmond says Scots two-thirds of way to 'freedom'

WHAT !!! Does this mean Dr Frankenstein is getting closer to finding William Wallace's head ?. Why wasn't I told ?.
120

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 09:16:26
I think I've figured it out about rufus et al.
121

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:17:12
139 Scottish and Proud,03/05/2009 09:07:01

If I want to spend my time criticising the SNP then I am perfectly entitled to do so.

It is in my interests (as well as yours) to point out that they could eventually bankrupt Scotland.
122

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:17:47
153 goldenayr,Alba 03/05/2009 09:16:26
I think I've figured it out about rufus et al.
==================================================

Good for you.

Splendid.
123

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 09:17:49
Scottish and Proud makes a good point Rufus.
For the Scottish Government, just what would you like to see...?
124

brownlie,

03/05/2009 09:20:12
125 danbob

Why are you desperate to "see it all end in tears for the scots(sic)"?
125

,

03/05/2009 09:20:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
126

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:21:03
156 Conan the Librarian™,03/05/2009 09:17:49
Scottish and Proud makes a good point Rufus.
For the Scottish Government, just what would you like to see...?
=======================================================

Devolution? A waste of money.

A half way house that benefits no one.

It should be independence or nothing.

Holyrood is an expensive talking shop.
127

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 09:22:53
well my fellow Nationalists there you have it.
Both Wardog and myself gave poor Rufus ample opportunity to "air his views" on why Scotland would be better under the union .
We got what in response?
A few cheap one liners ,the same nagative comments but notihng to defend the union .
Tells me we are correct ,the union is finished it has nothing to offer 21st century Scotland.
After WW11 the union was effectively over ,the final nail in the coffin was the Treaty of Rome when UK joined EU.
That is when we should have dissolved the union of GB
128

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:23:44
157 Wardog salus populi suprema lex esto,03/05/2009 09:18:29

149. Rufus

What does it matter if its 'not allowed or illegal'?

It was wrong in principal Rufus.
===================================================

Only in your small warped mind.

Labour can change leader mid-term if it so wishes.
129

,

03/05/2009 09:24:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
130

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 09:24:19
If a decent information campaign is started now.Something that can strongly refute the lies told by westmidden.That makes the voters aware that politics isn't a football team.It's about the future,your hopes and aspirations.Not "My TEAM won" no matter what their agenda.
131

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:25:32
Wardog, what does being Scottish mean to you?

What makes you proud to be Scottish?
132

SlyFifer,

Somewhere South of Fife 03/05/2009 09:26:02
Great !. 2/3 the way towards independence - wonderful!. Just hope that the last 1/3 of the way takes a whole lot less time than did the first 2/3.
I will be voting for independence but I will only vote for the SNP as a second choice. My vote will go to that 'other' independence party.
133

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:28:39
164 Scottish and Proud,Glasgow 03/05/2009 09:22:53
well my fellow Nationalists there you have it.
Both Wardog and myself gave poor Rufus ample opportunity to air his views" on why Scotland would be better under the union .
==================================================

Thanks for that.

I appreciate the 2 of you allowing me that opportunity (which would obviously not normally be there).

I am overwhelmed by your generosity.
134

,

03/05/2009 09:28:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
135

MoiraMac,

03/05/2009 09:28:43
Come on Rufus it's your turn.

The name Rufus always makes me think of a dog.
Sit Rufus! Walkies! Stay!


Too late I have to go! No walkies today Rufus!

136

Satire above all,

03/05/2009 09:29:17
Who is this Rufarse character? What is it? It could be a Tory...it could be a Labour...could be a paid up member of BNP...we don't know. But what we do know is that IT must be very worried...you can almost sense it in ITS feeble rantings...in iITS pathetic attempt to be heard...to influence. We also know that IT must be blind...blind to the change...to the unstoppable change that is sweeping this country of ours (surely not ITS). ITS mutterings are nothing...ignore IT. As I will now do.
137

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 09:30:08
171 slyfifer
ukip are to far south I told you that yesterday.Anyway a vote for any other party than the SNP until after independence is pointless.
138

puskas,

East kilbride 03/05/2009 09:30:23
No154...

I note you say you are entitled to critise the SNP..

Of course you are ... When do you intend to start.

It seems you are bankrupt mentally.

139

MoiraMac,

03/05/2009 09:31:11
Ooops I nearly went without the 'Pooper Scooper'
140

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 09:32:49
161
*Gasp* Deep breath...I agree.
So why are you so against a Scots Government that wants to do just that?
141

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:33:06
172 Inconsistent views?

Howzat?
142

Don Roberto,

03/05/2009 09:34:57
#106

Poor Rufus, posting through the night in a brave endeavour to present the 'special' side of Labour.

So, Bannockburn. Remind us who held the site, what the majority was at the last election, why the previous Labour councillor was thrown out of the council and by how much the SNP raised its vote?
143

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:35:13
180 Conan the Librarian™,03/05/2009 09:32:49
161
*Gasp* Deep breath...I agree.
So why are you so against a Scots Government that wants to do just that?
=======================================================
That is not the case.

If the SNP gain a majority and call a referendum and undoubtedly fail, we are still left with the expensive talking shop at Holyrood.
144

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 09:35:50
170 Rufus

What makes you proud to be Scottish?
=======================================================
Well unlike you rufus I can articulate that question.
I am immensly proud of my nation in many ways.
That throughout the centuries no matter who threatened us or who ever invaded us we saw of that challenge to reamin independent small nation.
The Romans ,The Vikings ,The English all tried and failed to conquer and oppress us none succeeded over the long stretch.
I am proud that as far back as the 14th century free education for all became a concept that latterly led to the enlightenment.
I am proud that Scotsmen using that education discovered amongst other things ,
penicillin ,television ,telephone ,ether ,micro wave ,decimal point ,vaccu flask ,bicycle ,repeating rifle ,tar macadam pneumatic tyre ,the steam engine ,the adhesive stamp,modern economics.
translating the bible into English for the first time
I am proud that my country has produced so many good and kindly people .
Dr Livingstone , carnegie who became one of the worlds most generous philanthropists, Wiiliam Wallace ho inspired generations ,including amongst others Garaballdi who united Italy.

I could go on much longer rufus but you get my drift.

And your reasons for being a proud Brit?
145

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:36:50
178 puskas,East kilbride 03/05/2009 09:30:23
No154...

I note you say you are entitled to critise the SNP..
It seems you are bankrupt mentally.
=============================================

Great post.

Tell me that I am bankrupt mentally whilst in the same post invent a new word 'critise'.
146

brownlie,

03/05/2009 09:36:50
161 Rufus

I always enjoy your postings but I suspect you've surpassed yourself with the "Independence or nothing" posting and I further suspect it will be repeated back to you every time you post.



147

Nikostratos,,

03/05/2009 09:37:09
2/3rds the Economist Alex Salmond says..But hold on wasn't it economists who said everything was doing real fine a little while ago..

didn't Alex say the ARC OF PROSPERITY and looked were that has led to
didn't the snp admit 52% of people would vote no to Independence(there data)
still he did say "I think we are two-thirds of the way there."

and in the minds of the willfully deluded
148

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:38:53
185 Scottish and Proud,Glasgow 03/05

Oh Dear.

Save the history lessons.

I want independence because we repelled the Roman invaders and invented the adhesive stamp.

Jeezo
149

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:39:48
187 brownlie,03/05/2009 09:36:50
161 Rufus

I always enjoy your postings but I suspect you've surpassed yourself with the "Independence or nothing" posting and I further suspect it will be repeated back to you every time you post.
====================================================

Why?

That has always been my viewpoint and has been expressed before.
150

Brideun,

Culloden 03/05/2009 09:40:35
I wonder where the idea came from that Scotland is one nation. The relatively small land surface has distinct collections of inhabitants with different cultures. The apparent majority ( certainly the loudest ) is from the Clyde area who have hard left politics and obeyance to a peculiar belief from Irish immigrant origins. I cannot understand why this disparite group is assumed to be collectively known as Scots. From a cultural point of view I know that most Highlanders are comfortable with neighbours from anywhere apart from the 'hey Jimmies'who usually have far too much to say and behave without a care for a local way of life. By the way I do not speak gaelic and don't wish to.
151

HellAintABadPlaceToBe,

Lockerbie 03/05/2009 09:41:06
This is a nothing story, more "playground politics" from poor politicians.
Remind me never to ask Alex for an opinion on anything as quite clearly he is not in a position to give me a decent answer!
152

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 09:41:08
188
Changeover at the desk?
153

,

03/05/2009 09:41:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
154

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:41:38
190 Wardog salus populi suprema lex esto,03/05/2009

If that's your belief than the SNP is the only party of any consequence that offers a solution to your views.
======================================================

Untrue.

As previously stated, if the SNP gain a majority and call a referendum and undoubtedly fail, we are still left with the expensive talking shop at Holyrood.

Therefore they do NOT offer the solution I am looking for.
155

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 09:42:36
189 Rufus
Oh Dear.

Save the history lessons.

I want independence because we repelled the Roman invaders and invented the adhesive stamp.
=======================================================
please feel free to be an idiot a liar is not acceptable.
You posed the question why am I proud to be Scottish I gave you a brief overview.
Now woud you care to reciprocate on your reasons for being a proud Brit?
Or will you just accept that you are here to troll and criticise but not debate?
156

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:43:37
195 funny_newspaper,03/05/2009 09:41:19

http://www.tinyurl.com/independance

===================================================

If independence is such a big thing in your life, its such a pity that you create a website about it and cannot even spell it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
157

brownlie,

03/05/2009 09:45:10
191 Rufus

Really? As an ardent fan I must have missed your previous statement on this.

As for your question "Why?" I think you know the answer to that as well as I do.
158

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:45:30
198 Scottish and Proud,Glasgow 03/05/2009 09:42:36
189 Rufus
Oh Dear.

Save the history lessons.

I want independence because we repelled the Roman invaders and invented the adhesive stamp.
=======================================================
please feel free to be an idiot a liar is not acceptable.
You posed the question why am I proud to be Scottish I gave you a brief overview.
Now woud you care to reciprocate on your reasons for being a proud Brit?
Or will you just accept that you are here to troll and criticise but not debate?
======================================================

Give me a chance.

It is about 10 against 1 here (as always), I do not have time to compile a list. I am having to run between and man every sentry position.

:-)
159

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 09:45:31
192
How sad for you.
160

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/05/2009 09:45:32
The smell of unionist fear is in the air.
161

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 09:46:02
#181


RTF


Long time ago, but a wee band not from Scotland but been there on their once a year holiday played that song. It wasnae bad. Catchy tune.


Aye, it was no bad...NZ


might have been

Yes, great guys in the war
162

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 09:47:28


Fwee by ninety fwee.
163

Scottish and Proud,

glasgow 03/05/2009 09:47:57
I will give you plenty of time and i would urge all my fellow nationalists to stay quiet for a little while.
We have all waited years on here to here the union/Britih argumnt articulated Rufus needs some quiet itme to do that.
Let us all wait with bated breath this should be amusing
164

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 09:49:22
195 funny_newspaper,03/05/2009 09:41:19


From the section "Things You Would Never Expect"

http://www.tinyurl.com/independance
====================================================

Hey Funny_newspaper man.

Especially for you after you made such a fool of yourself.

http://tinyurl.com/funny-newspaper-cant-spell



165

brownlie,

03/05/2009 09:50:03
188 Nikos,

Quite right, old chum, the UK Government's economists did say that "everything was doing fine a wee while ago".
166

Munguin,

Broughty Ferry 03/05/2009 09:50:52
Ian Gray is a bit like Polo, played by Ronnie Corbett in the 1967 film Casino Royale, every now and again you have to plug him in, in order to get out some fatuous new labour sound bite that has come straight from his master’s voice in London. For the rest of the time he stays in his cupboard and says very little apart from his stuttering half baked performances at FMQs. Thank you very much for that pearl of wisdom Ian!
167

,

03/05/2009 09:51:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
168

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 09:51:22
Judging by some of the posts on here the mental health charities must be inundated.
169

Brian R Stanier,

Stourbridge West Midlands 03/05/2009 09:51:34
If Salmond thinks for one minute that we are going to carve up the union for his benefit he is living in CLOUD CUCKOO LAND He's on a massive loser most Scots will vote against it Why doesn't he keep his mouth shut
170

brownlie,

03/05/2009 09:51:56
205 Stan Butler

Terrific post - that's really put the nats in their place.
171

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 09:52:35
Rufus the mereological nihilist.
She must have hurt you very much...
172

brownlie,

03/05/2009 09:54:25
192 brideun

Nothing like generalisations and categorisations to put your point of view across. By the way, I speak Gaelic and am quite comfortable with it.
173

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 09:55:15
214 brainless p stain
And what would you know?
174

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 09:55:22
I don't know about you Wardog b ut I have not been this excited in years.

Rufus is about to deliver the unionist silver bullet
175

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 09:58:31
221 Wardog
I hope their not to busy because I think they'll have a long wait
176

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 09:58:50


Scotland will be fwee to join the European UNION?

It seems it's only certain political UNIONS the gnats don't like.

It's not that they dislike the English. Far from it. Why, some of their best friends....................



177

,

03/05/2009 09:59:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
178

Nikostratos,,

03/05/2009 10:00:40
"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free.

I do not expect the Union to be dissolved -- I do not expect the house to fall -- but I do expect it will cease to be divided.

It will become all one thing or all the other.
-Abraham Lincoln

Is probably right the snp need to be put firmly in their place and with 52% voting 'NO' (snp data) they jolly well will be..
and we can close that auld book once and for all time

'Alba gu brath'
179

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 10:01:05
224 Stan could be quiet please Rufus is concentrating
he s trying to help you lot out.
He is gonig to give us the reasons to be British and unionists
so shhhhh!!
He needs quiet
180

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 10:01:41
224 butlicker
What is wrong with self determination?
181

jane shore,

london 03/05/2009 10:02:24

Golly gosh 185 That's impressive. Tell you what, why don't you print all on a Tea Towel & sell it to all us English tourists & visitors? We can all have a laugh then. Who's like you Scots eh?

You do know that lot are all dead don't you? (and Carnegie wasn't that nice, read him up.) Who shafted Braveheart to us?

Aren't you proud that a "Brit" developed the WWW (& he's still alive) you are using? Isn't it great to be using such an esteemed "British" language.

Get a life........sheez.
182

Rock Lobster,

Montrose 03/05/2009 10:02:49

I thought you'd listen to my reason,
But now I see, you don't hear a thing,
Try to make you see, how its got to be,

Yes its all, all or nothing,
Yeah yeah, ALL OR NOTHING,
All or nothing, for me.

The Small Faces. 1966.
183

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 10:03:47
Wardog
Is that in your house or on here?
184

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 10:03:54


What odds are the bookies giving on there being a yes vote in a referendum?

185

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 10:04:22
Oh well, Labour and the Lib Dems didn't manage to do much, the SNP have do even less, and during devolution, Westminster has shown more competent governance of the areas that are devolved.

At least we have a first minister who can count to three, even if they cannot recognise their many failings. We need someone with refreshing honesty about the spendthrift lack of progress Holyrood has made, and someone capable of ignoring party politics and working with a proportional representation system.

All sadly lacking, althouh at least McConnell made a stab at it. Two years of a thourghly devisive exec has helped no-one.
186

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 10:05:09
Hard is it Rufus to come up with sometihng positive?
Goes against all your unionist training .
They teach you to be negaive at all times.
There must be some reason to be proud of being British????


187

Nikostratos,,

03/05/2009 10:05:12
#233 wardog

Yes, posting a spoof smear is totally abhorrent & rephrensible.

Why then Niko, did you post one saying that 'Alec Salmond had died'?




Just how many pseudonyms are you using?


wardog

i posted my reply to your smear i note you ran away and hid from the truth

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5752826158262183491&postID=5000465376177540619&isPopup=true
188

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 10:06:58
236 daniel
Out of chaos comes order
189

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 10:08:38
Oh dear seems Rufus handlers pulled him and sent in the cavalry Jane Shore ,tin man and niko the real dregs are here now
190

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 10:10:35
220 Scottish and Proud,Glasgow 03/05/2009 09:55:22
I don't know about you Wardog b ut I have not been this excited in years.
=======================================================

Oh Dear.

This could get messy.
191

Prudence,

Moray 03/05/2009 10:11:06
What makes a Scot ?
Irreplaceable history , distinctive culture , exceptional resilience and matchless determination especially in politics ( as witnessed recently by our PM on u-tube ) Here's tae us , wha's like us !
192

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 10:13:26
221 Wardog salus populi suprema lex esto,03/05/2009 09:56:31
I've called the family through to witness this historic event
=====================================================

And here they are......

http://tinyurl.com/c2x68r
193

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 10:14:36
don't know about you Wardog but I am gettin a wee sense of how Eck feels at FMQs.
Seems unionists in and out of Holyrood have no real answers to the independence of Scotland
194

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 10:14:45

#236 danielrober

There is no guarantee, whatever the gnats claim, that Scotland would be allowed to join the EU if it left the Union.

The gnats half baked idea of having a referendum on the principle of separation without giving the Scottish people a right to vote on the detail of any separation settlement amounts to secession. France and Spain, for their own domestic reasons, are not going to be falling over themselves to support such a strategy.

And before they start, the EU can just about get by without the oil and fash from Scotland.
195

The Kids Are Alright,

03/05/2009 10:15:33
RYF


Sitck to your guns.


196

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 10:19:01
250 Col. Blimp­IV*,03/05/2009 10:15:00
#5 RufusT-Firefly,

Scotland has more than 10% of the EU coastline.

======================================================

Really?

Show me the link.
197

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 10:22:27
You a Small Faces fan, Rufus?

I quite like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KePwKX94NM4

198

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 10:25:17
249 buttlicker
What are you afraid of.Are you a responsible person taking the blame for your own mistakes.Or are you still hanging on to someones hand.
199

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 10:27:22
257 Wardog salus populi suprema lex esto,03/05/2009 10:22:38
Rufus
Since you seem to be incapable of stringing a few paragraphs
======================================================
I am too busy calculating the length of Scotland's coastline.

These small islands take time you know.

:-)
200

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 10:29:40
260 daniel
Understand your concerns,but,I still think this is an amazing opportunity.Not just to rebuild the economy but to overhaul the system.
201

Media at One,

03/05/2009 10:30:10
Scotland is one of the most liberated countries on the planet. Freedom has been part and parcel of Scottish life for well over 500 years. I love the freedom that Scotland offers. Great walks, great gardens, great museums, wonderful highland escapes, fantastic city centre tours, freedom of expression and movement. Scotland has it all, perhaps Alex Salmond should open his eyes.
202

Nikostratos,,

03/05/2009 10:30:57
#258 this is much more you




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQBhxOFjCn0
203

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 10:31:03
261
You just need a really good moral compass Rufus.
204

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 10:31:43

For me the reason I would prefer that Scotland remain as a part of the UK is that social, cultural and economic life in a separate Scotland would be parochial, narrow minded and introverted.

You only have to look at the type of person that supports the SNP to see what a horrible place a separate Scotland would be.



205

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 10:33:31
260 danielrober,03/05/2009 10:26:20
Come on its the economy that counts - Scotland has enough memorials.
======================================================

Untrue.

Salmond will not be happy until there is a statue of himself on every street corner.

After that he will be appearing on Scottish Banknotes and eventually the Scottish Euro Coin (could be a problem in getting the Eurozone to increase the size of the coin designs).

After that his head will be on adhesive stamps (invented by a Scot and a good reason in its own right to vote for independence).

Then there will be a Salmond TV channel (needs to be viewed on widescreen).

Possibilities are immense.
206

,

03/05/2009 10:33:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
207

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 10:34:29
So it would seem like all other unioinists on here Rufus you cannot articulate arguments for the union and Scotland's place in it.
So best you be as all your alter egos on here and just be negative about Scotland and the SNP
208

A Crofter,

Fat Arce 03/05/2009 10:35:21
Hard to believe it's barely a year since FatMan informed us we all lived in the fabled arc of prosperity with the world's most stable banks.

Stonyrood is a joke of a parliament, inhabited by fifth-rate, brown-tongued losers - just another tier of overpaid, freespending suits we'd all manage without.
209

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 10:35:37
268 daniel
By that time the forces and stimulus that is still out there to invest in new ventures will have bedded down again with the usual suspects.
210

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 10:36:19
Mind you, the Salmond TV channel may take a while to get up and running. Until then we will have to make do with the Disney Channel.
211

brownlie,

03/05/2009 10:37:26
269 Stan Butler

Are you seriously suggesting that everyone who supports the SNP is parochial, narrow-minded and introverted?
212

jane shore,

03/05/2009 10:38:02

242 Scottish & Proud. My point:...... That tea towel list of inventors etc. really isn't a good arguement for Independence, they were all doing their stuff within the Union.
213

Nikostratos,,

03/05/2009 10:38:21
#256 Conan

who does his namesake proud the slaughterer of innocent
Guinea pigs with his hell hounds .... Hear the lamentations of the wee Bairns

full story and pics here

http://mypse udepi grapha.blogspot.com/2009/05/guinea-pig-flew.html

214

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 10:39:08
273 danielrober,03/05/2009 10:34:03
# 261 RufusT-Firefly,

Don't forget a subsection for the sunken islands, rocks and sand bars. They count as the coast line too.
=====================================================

Good point.

Maybe when they did the calculation for Scotland having 10% of Europes coastline, Salmond was having a swim in the firth of Forth.

These Google satellite images are good, but even so they can be fooled. It would have looked like an island the size of Australia had suddenly appeared.
215

,

03/05/2009 10:39:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
216

Scottish and Proud,

03/05/2009 10:41:42
269 Stan

For me the reason I would prefer that Scotland remain as a part of the UK is that social, cultural and economic life in a separate Scotland would be parochial, narrow minded and introverted.
=======================================================You have just accussed the Scots of your Brit nat traits.
Little Englanders & Little Brits hate Johnny Foreigner ,Jock ,Paddy and Taffs.
They do love vichy Scots ,and plastic Paddys that know there place in the pecking order and show true defference to their superiors.
You certainly come across in these catagories
217

RufusT-Firefly,

03/05/2009 10:42:00
280 Col. Blimp­IV*,03/05/2009 10:37:31
Rufus

http://www.mareforum.com/Marseille_Maritime_2008_papers/CORRES.pdf
======================================================

So where does it say Scotland has 10% of the EU's coastline?
218

brownlie,

03/05/2009 10:42:04
282 Niko

Have you read it all?
219

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 10:42:25
281 Jane
OK why are you proud to be english?
220

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 10:42:32
282
Thanks for the plug Niko.

Where do I give the 88p to?
221

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 03/05/2009 10:44:57
261 RufusT-Firefly,

“I am too busy calculating the length of Scotland's coastline.

These small islands take time you know”


“calculating”?


For someone who cannot work out what 10% means, your calculations will of course be of some interest.


Perhaps instead of investing in a plasma car and a couple of blue-ray guns to play with before the cartoons come on TV, you should have bought a calculator.


Tesco in Corstorphine have a few on sale, less than a fiver, aimed I guess at primary school weans or those of your intellectual ability.
222

James Annand,

03/05/2009 10:45:08
I haven't posted on here in ages, but after I read Rufus' blunder and subsequent refusal to give one good reason to remain in the union has forced me to reply.

I'm really disappointed in you Rufus. Can you really not come up with ONE thing that is good about Britain? What do you believe in? Are you so consumed with hate for your own country that you're simply unable to accept that the people of Scotland could run their own affairs?

I really do worry about you unionists. You seem to have nothing in your hearts but fear and loathing....maybe your veins too.
223

brownlie,

03/05/2009 10:45:14
292 Conan

Excellent!
224

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 03/05/2009 10:47:52
Salmond is a chancer. He is one and he continually behaves like one.

The SNP exist because of their mantra of so-called independence for the Scottish nation. Without this they are a mixed up bunch of goodness knows what - they float about collecting a policy here another one there and then try to kid people on they have some moral compass leading us to goodness knows where.

A political party of any worth requires an unshakeable commitment to a whole set of philosophically led policies that stand the test of time, during good and bad times.

Its a fact that the UK for the past 100 plus years has been a liberal democracy whose set of principles were established by the reforming Liberal governments of Asquith, Campbell Bannerman, and Lloyd George. During last 60 years of the 20th century its been tinkered with around the edges by successive Labour and Tory governments who appeal at successive elections to the moderate majority of free thinking voters who are not tied to any one party. Both of these parties appeal to selfish minded peole eg big business interests or trade unions who are diametrically opposed and who scare people into one corner or another.

Forget Salmond and co, think positively for real and reforming change. Think how and why policies need reform for the whole UK in terms of greater devolution that embraces the English regions and satisfies the remote parts of the country like Cornwall as well as Shetland.

There is only one genuine party of principle capable of such radical reform and its sure ain't the seperatist movement encompassed by the SNP. They are a hollow shell now with a gradually eroding sheen. Long live Liberal Democracy!
225

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 10:48:19
291 Goldenayr
She is a troll an alter ego John Smith House placperson.
Her comments were adressed to me I ignore them best yuo do to it only encourages them to deflect from the thread.
226

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 10:48:59
#288 Scottish and Proud

Thank you for illustrating the point I was making.

227

jane shore,

london 03/05/2009 10:50:23

It would take so long 291. Suppose I could sub-section it into English Artists, Writers. Philosophers, Economists, Architects, Scientists, Musicians, Physicians, Surgeons. Thespians. Deary me.
228

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 10:51:20
Well wardog my fellow patriot no surprises therethen huh?
Rufus like all the Inoinists cannot articulate the benefits of thev union.
They then expect us all to meekly accept their advice that
Scotland /SNP = Bad , Very Bad

UK/Westminster= Good Very Good

Ask no questions (especially about expenses and second homes) and vote for your Labour monkey or your Tory donkey
229

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 10:51:25
~279 brownlie

"Are you seriously suggesting that everyone who supports the SNP is parochial, narrow-minded and introverted?"

There is quite a bit of that, bit I think that 'culturally insecure' is more accurate. After all, if people want the top bit of a small island off the coast of western Europe to form a seperate State to the bottom bit, you have to wonder what the point of it all is.
230

Boswall,

03/05/2009 10:51:27
The remaining 1/3 presumably coming from Salmond and his repulsive administration resigning.
231

Media at One,

03/05/2009 10:51:38
It is a shame that so many Scots cannot see the advantages of the union. Fortunately over the years a majority of Scots have been able to see the positive aspects of the union.
Scotland IS free, has been for centuries. But somehow a small minded attitude got into the Scottish psyche and has become a real drain on society.
The little dog that does nothing but bark!
Truth is, you can't run with the dogs when you p!$$ like a puppy! So perhaps the Scots (or some Scots) should enjoy the union and take full advantage of it.
232

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 10:51:55


Anyone who is proud of the country they were born in, which is no more than an accident of birth, something over which they have no control, is an idiot.
233

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 10:52:01
Good Morning brownlie.
Just having breakfast.
Nae Guinea pig left though.
234

Edward,

03/05/2009 10:53:22
The Union with England is well past its sell by date!
Scotland really does not need to continue wth the union.
What some unionist posters on here delude to is the 'Scotland seperating from the rest of the United Kingdom' arguement' this is something that Labourites keep spouting.
Just to clarify and correct. If Scotland becomes Independent then there is NO United Kingdom left, its as simple as that. An Indpendent Scotland would mean an Independent England, Wales is a principality of England. There is no definition for Northern Ireland after the dissolution of the UK, as Northern Ireland is a province derived from what was Ireland pre Irish Free State.
So regardless if your argueing for retaining the Union or argueing for Independence. Understand that if Scotland becomes Independent, this will mean the abolition of the 1707 Act of Union (which was only a Union between England and Scotland, being the Kingdoms in question)
235

James Annand,

03/05/2009 10:53:29
#300

I'm just amazed that the Liberal Democrats have a set of philosophically led policies that have stood the test of time.
236

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 10:55:57
#303 brownlie

The concept of positive change within the UK eludes some people. That actually is small-minded, and frankly stupid.
237

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 10:56:06
287 Daniel
Have you ever had an opportunity placedin front of you and thought"I can't do this just now" and then regreted it because the chance never came again.The money foreign investment brings in is something that always has to be watched.Look at the last few decades where incentives to come here were gladly taken and then when they ran out so did the companies.That was badly planned,illthought and par for the course with the current system.I'm talking about a root and branch overhaul.I said 10 yrs ago we were heading for meltdown.It was obvious the more at the top had the ones at the bottom must have less.The nature of pyramids.Money has to circulate not be hoarded.Anyway of tract sooner rather than later for me.The misinformation from westmidden has to be countered first
238

,

03/05/2009 10:57:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
239

Edward,

03/05/2009 10:58:34
#305 Media1
Scotland has not been free for the last 302 years!
The 1707 Union has been unpopular with Scots, ever since 1707. Its started with riots and was never put to the Scottish people. the Act of union was made possible through corruption and the payment to Scottish Nobles that were in the Scottish Parliament. Some would say there has been no change to that since.
All through the last 302 years there has been various attempts to change the Union. It was unpopular with many Scots figures such as Robert Burns and Sir Walter Scot.

240

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 10:58:51
306
I'll get you Butler.

http://www.derbydeadpool.co.uk/images/celebs/l/lewiss.jpg



241

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 11:00:41
297 S'n'P
Sorry will do
242

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 11:02:33
#308 Edward

History eludes you. The4 abolition of the Union of Crowns (rather than the political union) is not being proposed by abyone other than Tommy Sheridan (I believe that Salmond, Swinney, and Cathy Jaimeson of all people, usud to strive for a seperate socialist republic, but have undergone political re-education).

So, the queen would still be the soveriegn head of State, and we would live in the United Kingdoms of GB & NI (Northern branch).
243

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 03/05/2009 11:03:26
96 Liberal for life,

Do I hear the sound of Whig tumbleweed floating past?

By the way, your wee band appeared to be against illegal wars in Westminster, but supportive of them in Holyrood whilst having the advantage of Government Mondeos, (they were actually Volvos, which used to ferry your wee gang of irrelevancies to the ante-rooms of the corridors of power).

No-one either knows or cares what your party of the landed gentry stand for.

You don’t even know yourselves.
244

Media at One,

03/05/2009 11:04:05
The best thing that can happen at the end of the day is for England, Wales and N.Ireland to rid themselves of the whinging Scots.
It used to be that the English were the most disliked of the four home nation countries, but more and more the Scots are being seen as the bleating fools who just cannot stop hating and moaning.
I say cut Scotland off, deny them a place at the union table and leave them. Let them build an army, a navy, an airforce. Let them buy their own protection, let them live in their own little narrow minded world of hatred in which secterian abuse and East coast West coast hatred is as real as anglo-saxon hatred.
245

,

03/05/2009 11:06:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
246

brownlie,

03/05/2009 11:07:26
312 The Tin Man

It's not the concept of change within the Uk that eludes some people it's the frustration of not being able to effect any change within the UK that is no longer acceptable. Following on from that, presumably you think that the status quo is acceptable but many people disagree.

Your previous post at 303 perpetuates the generalisations that infest these threads. For example, if a person porporting to be either unionist or nationalist makes an outrageous or silly comment it is pounced upon as being typical of unionists or nationalists in general.

What precisely is this cultural insecurity of which you accuse SNP supporters?
247

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:08:45
323 Hear Hear media at one
so you will be voting SNP from now on then I presume?
248

jane shore,

london 03/05/2009 11:09:57

Oh well 297 Accuse a poster of being a troll. Why not, it's a good excuse not to answer any points that be causing you difficulties.

Don't worry for a while..... I'm off...... BBQ weather.
249

brownlie,

03/05/2009 11:10:12
307 Conan

Hats off, Conan, I think Niko's gone to get his mentor to read your full post for him.
250

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/05/2009 11:10:16
323 Your whole post is a whingefest !
251

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 03/05/2009 11:12:55
300/310

Are you meaning opinion polls or REAL votes - I think the two council by-election results in Aberdeenshire and Inverness last week when the SNP and Tory votes simultaneously went down are reflecting what usually happens in the ballot box come election time - the LibDem vote increases.

Re
Opposition to a Lisbon Treaty Referendum? - we are happy to debate a proper TREATY not a watered down set of rules.

Opposition to a Scottish Parliament Referendum? - people had a chance to vote overwhelmingly for the SNP in may 2007 if they wanted so-called SNP type independence, as they do at every election. The fact only a misguided minority chose to vote with their heart not their head is no excuse to waste tax payers money on another "referendum".

Proposed £800MILLION Personal Tax Cuts in a recession? - this was a genuine attempt to put real money back into real peoples pockets to spend in local shops and businesses. Perhaps you are too stupid to spend YOUR own money more wisely that elected politicians - I'm not.

Voted for £500MILLION Trams? - every European city of worth has a proper tram and rail networked system. Its time our capital city of Scotland joined the 20th century let alone the 21st - or do you disagree with this ambition?

Supported Graduate Endowment Fee's? - we got rid of up front Tuition Fees as we promised - the SNP pledged/promised(?) they would get rid of student debt - so whats happened to that one - in the bin with all the other SNP U-turns no doubt.
252

Media at One,

03/05/2009 11:13:48
connaught

It has to be.
Listening to the Scottish drone of independence and freedom has become normal. Is there any nation on the planet as ridiculous as Scotland?
253

brownlie,

03/05/2009 11:14:04
323 Media one

Are you sure that Northern Ireland, Wales and English own the army, navy and air force? Would Wales and Northern Ireland wish to continue in the union?
254

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 11:14:37
321 Good Morning Ll, and a belated one to Wardog too.

There is a disturbance in the force @ 323.

Click...click...anybody got some AAA's?
255

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 03/05/2009 11:18:04
332 - so blimp, what are you anyway - I can list a number of Tories or socialists and even some nationalist politicians who don't exactly match your own selective moral compass - so give me a clue or don't you know?

We are discussing policies not personalities - or have you no core philosophy guiding you in politics either?
256

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 11:18:30
325 Labour lies


Support for extreme nationalism/fascism/racism usually rise in a recession.

It's because those beliefs offer a simplistic wrong headed answer to the problems that people face.

Lost your job, your house, can't get hospital treatment, afraid of crime?

Blame the blacks/Jews/foreigners.

257

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 03/05/2009 11:21:30
322- the Bully Wee got relegated yesterday afternoon - so await your destiny.

We have survived the "wilderness years" of the 50's and 60's and come the next General Election a balance of power awaits us for sure. Watch this space.
258

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:21:39
Thank's to the efforts of the SNP, the English will never have to worry about having a scotch prime minister or scotch chancellor again, I salute the SNP.
259

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:23:06
339. Stan

well said!

"British Jobs for British Workers"!
260

Edward,

03/05/2009 11:23:32
#320 Tinman

A Tinman, the Labour smear and negative info plant!
You must have a reading problem, as I did not state anything about the Union of Crowns (1603), it was the Act of Union 1707, but then you knew that anyway.

'So, the queen would still be the soveriegn head of State, and we would live in the United Kingdoms of GB & NI (Northern branch)'
Are you that ignorant?
On the presumption that your talking post independence, then, what you stated was completely and utterly wrong. Perhaps you really are ignorant of the facts?
Fact 1. The Union of Crowns 1603, only created a situtaion whereby the Monarch of Scotland became the Monarch of England, but the two KINGDOMS remained seperate entities
Fact 2. The Act of Union 1707, was the union of the TWO KINGDOMS of Scotland and England for political purposes, that is to have one single Parliament.
Fact 3. With the dissalution of the 1707 Act of Union, would take the situation back to what it was before 1707, that is TWO seperate Kingdoms, each sharing the same monarch
There would be NO United Kingdom of GB & NI left, it just would NOT exist
Hopefully you now understand
261

Rab haw,

03/05/2009 11:24:22
Feel sorry for the Onionists their biggest asset "The fear factor " is losing its charm and as for Rufus he has a balloon for a brain and its just been pricked.
262

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:24:56
Oh dear, I see yet another Labour parliamentarian has been caught troughing and sleazing at the taxpayers expense.

Baroness Uddin has claimed £100,000 for staying at her "main" home despite this having been empty and unfurnished for 3 years. She declined to let reporters see her "furniture" yesterday when she turned up at the flat yesterday. Her actual house is 4 miles from Westminster.

Just a pity Labour MPs voted against reforming their expenses last week,
263

arc of insolvency,

03/05/2009 11:25:24
Free by 93, heaven by 97 balh, blah, blah. What a dillusioned man and party.

All talk and no action just like their governance.
264

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:26:58
341. The Answer

well said. Clearly the SNP cleverly tricking Gordon Brown into setting up the FSA, presiding over the total collapse of our banking system and leaving the UK bankrupt and borrowing ore than any other developed country will no doubt ensure the English don't have to worry...
265

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:27:54
349. Arc of Incontinence

well said. The SNP would cost every Scot a £5000 tax bill, and never forget it.

I much prefer my UK Labour £55,000 tax bill for the next 15 years!
266

European Scot,

03/05/2009 11:28:25
334 Media at One ( Media 1 )

"Listening to the Scottish drone of independence and freedom has become normal. Is there any nation on the planet as ridiculous as Scotland?"

Listening to many different countries becoming independent over the past decades has become normal, Scotland will simply be joining them.
There is nothing whatsoever ridiculous about that.
267

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:29:16
349. Arc

the SNP will never ever win a Scottish parliament election and form the government, or be the largest partyin Scottish local government, and never forget that!
268

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:30:36
323 Media One

"The best thing that can happen at the end of the day is for England, Wales and N.Ireland to rid themselves of the whinging Scots."

But meanwhile we will continue whinging endlessly about whinging Scots!
269

Ewan M,

03/05/2009 11:31:57
It's not like SNP supporter who hang about here all day to call people childish names? How mature and forward thinking a party and support you are.

Listening to you I now understand how you leader is so ridiculous...............
270

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 11:31:57
#326 brownlie

Well, because the SNP were insecure about calling Scotland a great wee country, our airports are now festooned with flag wallpaper, for one thing - to such an extent it must make people dizzy (accompanied by stunning banalites in small print). Flag-waving nonsense may suit some people, but not me, especially not half an acre of white and blue crosses.
271

brownlie,

03/05/2009 11:33:59
What's this I hear about Milliband having a private plane on stand-by in case he has to fly somewhere at short notice. Sounds a bit like the private plane Brown chartered to fly to Japan. Ach, it's only money.
272

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:34:37
361, Tin Man says

"Flag-waving nonsense may suit some people"

meanwhile....

Fly the flag in every garden - Telegraph14 Jan 2006 ... Gordon Brown will call on the British people to celebrate their ... the Americans by planting "a (Union) flag in every garden" and will ...
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1507773/Fly-the-flag-in-every-garden.html - Similar pages
273

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 11:36:41
#364 English

Indeed - much of the same ilk. At least the drivel never took-off.
274

brownlie,

03/05/2009 11:36:54
361 Tin Man

Nicely done - you evaded all the points I made to you and complained about flags making you dizzy? A sound reason for maintaining the UK status quo.
275

Conan the Librarian™,

03/05/2009 11:37:56
362
Fex sake Wardog, where have all the sensible Unionists gone?
Ok, sensible might have been too lenient a word, but ye ken whit ah mean.
276

Marga,

Edinburgh 03/05/2009 11:38:05
Good stuff on Scotland in the Sunday post today:

Margo Macdonald: MSPs upped their game in 10 years of realpolitik


Labour is still learning how to oppose rather than lead, although Iain Gray’s unshowy style is picking up admirers.

But, viewed from the cheap seats, the signs are there that the big changes for the next decade will be among the non-nationalist backbenchers who proclaim themselves against independence but who are now trying to work out how the Scottish Parliament can exercise real power independently of Westminster.
277

Temple,

Italy 03/05/2009 11:39:24
"two-thirds" of the way down the road to independence

may be it is my bad english but that phrase it doesn't mean that two-thirds of scottish people are for the independence
or i'm wrong ?
But if the supporters of Labour and Conservative party are so sure that scottish are not for the independence why do you have so scare about a referendum ?
278

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:40:46
371. BRING IT ON!
279

bill-alba,

fife 03/05/2009 11:40:49
the fear eminating from the british comments on here is pallatable...we are going to be independent and its more in the eu's benefit that they accept scotland into it than the other way.
funny how the arc of prosperity is commented on without a thought that its Westminster that is insolvent.
I will resort to the anti scot comments in the way the britnats do...ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha etc etc etc.
280

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:41:01
371. ERM, NA, TAKE IT AWAY!
281

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:41:21
371. WE UNIONISTS CALL THE SNP's BLUFF - REFERENDUM NOW
282

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:41:38
.... WEATHER AND POSTAL VOTING PERMITTING!
283

Marga,

Edinburgh 03/05/2009 11:43:11
Times today full of stories about Scotland (including trams).

Interesting snippet from Joan McAlpine: Let’s go nuclear and ditch our weapons

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6210879.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2

The working group appointed by Salmond to examine ways to get rid of nuclear weapons from Scotland reports soon. Part of its remit is to address the economic costs of expelling Trident.

*It will also be interesting to hear the group’s views on the pre-election nationalist plan to tax the movement of missiles around Scotland*.
284

European Scot,

03/05/2009 11:43:57
361 The Tin Man

" Flag-waving nonsense may suit some people, but not me, especially not half an acre of white and blue crosses."

Yet you have never made any similar comments about having problems with the red, white, and blue that are thrust upon us at every opportunity by the likes of the EBC, or Brown.
285

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 11:44:13
#368 brownlie

I responded to your point about insecurity. Do you have an opinion that you care to express?

The UK is constantly changing, unless you didn't notice.

Silly comments? From Hootsmon weirdos? Surely not.
286

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:45:18
380. "The games up for the unionists."

Oh contraire! Remember, an independent Scotland would have a deficit of £3 billion - we said so!

You are miuch better off with the UK's £195 billion deficit!

Stands to reason - which would you rather have, £3 billion of £195 billion??
287

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:45:57
339 Stan what colour is the sky on your planet ? Seriously. The drive for Scottish independence is not based on fear or ignorance or blame upon the ''other''. You base all your posts on a projected fantasy of ''what is wrong with nationalism regardless of the context''. You're a smart guy going to please wake up, and debate the reality not the myth.
288

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 11:46:08
#381 Euro

See #367.

289

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:47:05
381, 386

We Unionists oppose any flag waving nonsense!

Provided it is not a Unionist waving the flag or calling for a flag in every garden!
290

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:47:35
384 the arument for Scottish independence is about self determination dear, it doesn't depend on numbers.

Is self determination a concept you can grasp ?
291

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:48:18
388. "The UK is constantly changing"

We Unionists oppose change! Unless it is UK constant!
292

Media at One,

03/05/2009 11:48:46
700 year old flashbacks and a real warming for movies like Braveheart in which the English are the enemy -

Dish towels with a list of great inventions in which the English are the brunt of the joke -

A fake anthem about sending them home tae think again -
Yes you guessed it, all about England -

WE WILL SUPPORT ANYONE WHO IS PLAYING AGAINST - You guessed it, England -

It would appear that independence is the least of their worries. Some national psychologolical treatment may be required.
293

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:49:06
389. "Is self determination a concept you can grasp ?"

That dependes, can "self determination" be expensed as a second home and furnished?
294

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:49:22
I guess the lazy scotch are goig to get a shock upon independence!



O.N.S website

tinyurl.com/am9y4e

only

8922 public sector workers per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !


but a massive


9898 public sector workers per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
295

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:50:02
361 You are another one Tin Man who is debating with a made up monster of your own imagination, and not the reality of a civic drive to self determination. Does it feel weird to be debating with an imaginary opponent ?
296

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 11:50:06

350 Labour lies


'why is the BNP vote in England on the rise and not in Scotland?'


Because in Scotland the type of person who might be seduced by the fascists policy of blaming society's woes on the outsider have a different simplistic and wrong headed explanation available to them.

Blame the English/the Union.

Nobody is born a racist or a fascist. It's their experiences and the options open to them that lead them gradually to adopt that mindset. A process in England which might inexorably lead a disaffected youth to vote BNP in Scotland is more likely to lead them to vote SNP.

I'm aware that he point I've made is going to go over the heads of most of the cyber gnats and await their predictable responses.
297

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:50:29
Dept of Work and Pensions website


tinyurl.com/cao6av


752 white male jobseekers allowance benefit claiments per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !



893 white male jobseekers allowance benefit claiments per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
298

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:51:17
392 and you are another one Media one who is living in a psycholigical fantasy land. Braveheart was a movie. This is reality.
299

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:51:26
Dept of Work and Pensions website

tinyurl.com/c8d4cc


1199 male income support benefit claiments per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !


1409 male income support benefit claiments per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
300

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:51:36
392. Well said

We Brit Unionists types are not obsessed with whinging about Scots!

http://manaboutthehouse.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/jock_strapped.jpg
301

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:52:55
396 The rise of the BNP is the failure of the Labour Party. It's a feckin disgrace the way Labour have left the working class behind and ignored their interests. Especially in the North.
302

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:53:04
Another scotch myth

To stop the English flooding into scotch universites for a better education they will be charged fee's that scotch and other eu students wont have to pay!

Fact

From UCAS wbsite 15-Jan-2009 tinyurl.com/cvuzer


8 new undergraduates per every English Westminister parliamentary seat 2008 elected to study in scotland!


30 new undergraduates per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat 2008 elected to study in England!
303

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:53:41
399. 1199 male income support benefit claiments per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !


1409 male income support benefit claiments per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !


BEHOLD, UNION DIVIDENDS ARE EVERYWHERE! SEE HOW GOOD THE UNION IS FOR SCOTCHLAND!
304

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:53:43
Another scotch myth

A higher percentage of scots gain entry to university than do the English!!!

Wrong

From UCAS wbsite 15-Jan-2009 tinyurl.com/cvuzer


650 new undergraduates per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !


498 new undergraduates per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
305

Peter Sellar,

Ontario, Canada 03/05/2009 11:54:03
I guess I shouldn't infringe on Scottish freedom as I have have lived in Canada for almosr 50 years however we get back to Scotland at every oppotunity and shall never lose our love for our homeland.While visiting I really can't see an independant Scotland being better than the Scotland of to-day where there is full freedom of expression and full bellies. We need freedom from the present economic situation and this is where ourattention should be aiming rather than spending money on a pretty useles cause. OOps there ive put my foot in it again.
306

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 11:54:19
#395 Observer

I merely expressed my disdain for the half-acre of swirling saltire wallpaper at Edinburgh airport. I am sure that you would feel the same if you saw it. I am expressing my right not to have to put up with it, do you have a problem with that?
307

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:54:19
405. Top up Fees - New Labour, New Ideas!
308

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:54:38
403 Oh sorry ! Ha ha trying to read 400 posts at the one time. English voice I do apologise.
309

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:55:28
410 Tin Man

well said. taxpayers should never have to pay taxes for anything of which they disapprove!

I myself dislike tanks and gynaecologists, they should be abolished!
310

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:56:25
413,

go and get a job!
311

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:56:56
396. "Because in Scotland the type of person who might be seduced by the fascists policy of blaming society's woes on the outsider have a different simplistic and wrong headed explanation available to them."

BRITISH JOBS FOR BRITISH WORKERS!

TOUGHER IMMIGRATION AND ASYLUM POLICY NOW!

ID CARDS 4-EVA!
312

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 11:57:40
#411 English

An unpopular idea that results in higher university funding. See Holyrood populist pandering for comparison, and watch Scottish universities slide down the UK table.
313

European Scot,

03/05/2009 11:57:52
386 The Tin Man

The point being you never chose to comment about all the red white and blue flag waving that preceded the more recent showing of the Saltire.
314

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 11:58:11
410 If you want to have a general go at random displays of flags and partiotism then I am the gal to agree with you. But don't direct it at the SNP exclusively. They ALL do it.
315

brownlie,

03/05/2009 11:59:00
382 Tin Man

Is that last para a confession or a realisation.

316

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 11:59:00
#409 Warthog

'350,000 costs'

How come the only amusing thing you've ever posted is a typing error?


By the way, did you get as far as reading this bit

'I'm aware that he point I've made is going to go over the heads of most of the cyber gnats and await their predictable responses.'????
317

English Voice,

03/05/2009 11:59:31
419 "watch Scottish universities slide down the UK table."

Nonsense. Our planned £500 million budget cuts this year in Scotland will not mean cuts to Scottish public services, such as Universities!

We Unionists are ahppy to cuts budgets, then complain about "sliding down tables!

Avanti the Union!
318

brownlie,

03/05/2009 11:59:56
416 Greetings, English voice - the true face of unionism!!
319

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:00:12
tinyurl.com/ce5ega

The Eiffel Tower is the world's most photographed landmark... but London's Trafalgar Square comes a close second

Most photographed landmarks according to Flickr:1. Eiffel Tower, Paris

England 4 out of the top 6:

2. Trafalgar Square, London

3. The Tate Modern, London

4. Big Ben, London

5. Notre Dame, Paris

6. London Eye, London

7. Empire State Building, New York
320

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 12:01:06
#421 Observer

Then we have the SNP conference background, as if a political party has a right to own a flag. Oh well, I guess Slab will pick up on that one and they will all be hiding behind flags.
321

English Voice,

03/05/2009 12:01:59
425. Britannic Greetings to you, Brownlie.

My, I am a swollen with pride by post 426 - Scotland will never prosper if it cannot get more people to take photographs of Grey Friar's Bobby!!
322

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:03:10
#418

my sexual prefrences are the same as your leader "the obese one" , wonder when he will be outed?
323

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:03:13
423 Stan Butler. Stop being such an intellectual snob. The fact that you dismiss supporters of independence as being knuckle dragging retards proves that you are entirely guilty of the sort of stereotypical thinking you routinely condemn in others.
324

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 12:04:18
#424 English Troll

"Nonsense. Our planned £500 million budget cuts this year in Scotland will not mean cuts to Scottish public services, such as Universities!"

I am interested how you would intend to pay for all those bank bail-out... Borrow more money?
325

English Voice,

03/05/2009 12:04:44
428. Quite right,disgusting!

http://ex-parrot.com/~chris/images/20040516/conservative-front-page.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_j4BAix7ZCvo/RmlO74CL4wI/AAAAAAAAAP4/n52dxSObTgQ/s200/gordon_brown_union_jack_flag.bmp.jpg
326

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:06:28
428 Jesus Tin Man have you ever watched ANY party political conference ? They all have flags and rousing tunes and general cringeworthy patriotism. Flags always remind me of the Eddie Izzard sketch ''do you have a flag'' so they have some purpose, but in my world apart from comedy purposes they shouldn't exist.
327

The Tin Man,

03/05/2009 12:06:39
#433 English Troll

At least we agree about something.
328

English Voice,

03/05/2009 12:07:54
432. Tin Man

why, the Scots could never afford bank bails outs.

Weird that we Unionists were posting last year that Scotland would never get any corporation tax from the big banks as their operations were mostly in the city of London and they would pay their corporation tax there!

So, last year HBOS and RBOS were not Scottish and would not pay corporation tax in Scotland post indenedpence....

Now, why of course RBOS and HBOS are totally, and always have been, 100% Scottish! Punch the air!

Unionists - change is our friend!
329

English Voice,

03/05/2009 12:08:48
432. Tin man askes "I am interested how you would intend to pay for all those bank bail-out... Borrow more money?"

Jolly good thing the UK did not have to "borrow more money" to pay for bank bail outs, I should cocoa!

Onward the Union!
330

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:09:39
432 No tin Man it is Gordon Brown that has mortgaged us up to the eyeballs for the next thirty years to pay off the banks largely foreign based debts.
331

English Voice,

03/05/2009 12:11:30
438. "Gordon Brown that has mortgaged us up to the eyeballs "

But be fair. At least he has allowed various Labour Cabinet minsisters to claim back their mortgage expenses for second homes that are as far as 7 miles from their real homes!

332

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 12:11:43

#431 Observer

What' most worrying is the gnats' automatic, unthinking and unquestioning dismissal of the point I've made. It's almost as if they don't want to entertain even the possibility that they may be appealing to a base and reactionary tendency in people.

Dangerous.

333

English Voice,

03/05/2009 12:13:34
440. Stan says "It's almost as if they don't want to entertain even the possibility that they may be appealing to a base and reactionary tendency in people."

Odd isnt that a Labour cabinet minister accused a Labour Mp of using "BNP language" is it not....

BBC NEWS | Politics | Hodge attacked for 'BNP language'25 May 2007 ... Education Secretary Alan Johnson accuses Margaret Hodge of using ... He said "immigrants do not go to the front of the queue" as housing was ...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6690007.stm - 49k - Cached - Similar pages
334

English Voice,

03/05/2009 12:14:48
440 Stan says "entertain even the possibility that they may be appealing to a base and reactionary tendency in people"

meanwhile, New Labour says

"Immigrants are jumping housing queu!!

Anger as Margaret Hodge's outburst boosts BNP|26May07|Socialist Worker... have reacted with fury to comments from their local MP Margaret Hodge that sought to blame the lack of council housing in the borough on immigrants. ...
www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=11627 - 18k - Cached - Similar pages
The truth about immigrants and housing queues | Mail OnlineLabour's Margaret Hodge sparked a vicious backlash this week with her comments about
335

barbour,

Sandbanks Dorset 03/05/2009 12:15:55
Scottish Independance!!!
In these dark days this brings a sense of relief to most English folk,if only it was true.Ditch the country of benefit scroungers.
Word of caution to the failed bank clerk,"Be careful what you wish for,you may get it"
Go for a referendum on independance prior to the next general election because when the Tories win,which they surely will and who have no vested interest in keeping Scotland "on side"goodby to the English taxpayers charity.
Point of interest.
Value of Norways "Oil war chest"= 24Billion Pounds,
Scotland who did not have the forsight to follow suit.
One big fat Zero.
The financial "experts" behind the call for Scotish Independance,ran RBS and BOS,mmmm mmmm say no more.
336

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:15:57
440 there are racists in all parties Stan. who are the primary victims of racism in this country ? You and yours (meaning unionists) claim that English people are the victims of racist hate. Police figures and the reality paints a different picture. The real victims of racist hate in Scotland, as in England, are Asians and specifically muslims. Of all the parties in Scotland the SNP cannot be accused of demonising muslims. In fact their inclusiveness of this group of people who are the objects of hate is used to criticise them, how do you reconcile that with your views that nationalism is based on racism ?
337

English Voice,

03/05/2009 12:17:50
445. I think it will come, after the "britishness test" is put in place!

..."Home Secretary David Blunkett asked experts to draw up a "Britishness" test for applicants for British citizenship, The Nationality, Immigration and Asylum bill...."
338

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:20:14
446 What precisely is the difference between New Labours pandering to the Daily Mail racist vote and Norman Tebbit's ''cricket test''.

I don't expect you to answer because thre isn't any.
339

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:22:41
448 I understand what you are saying Wardog but we stand against racism. We deplore it and we can prove it. I think it is worthwhile pointing that out when people smear us with a load of rubbish assumptions which are not true.
340

English Voice,

03/05/2009 12:22:48
449. Every difference!

Stan was quite right! The SNP, by having the first Scots Asian MSP elected, and with their pesky habit of also having English MSPs in their ranks, are clearly appealing to base instincts, as Stan aludes to!

New Labour however, by invading Muslim countries, whipping up anti-asylum feeling, and in the words of a Labour Cabinet minister "using the language of the BNP" are cleary noy "appealing to base instincts"

Stan has identified the true threat!
341

Ewen Miler,

Wilts 03/05/2009 12:25:53
if Independant: how much would it cost to transfer the RBS bail-out to Scottish tax payers?

What would replace Faslane, sine all the sub would have to move back to Devonport? No more RN ships made on the Clyde - don't know of any RN ship that's bee made outside the UK since WW II. I don't the UK would keep the likes of Lossie and Leuchars open. A lot of jobs and money lost to the economy - how's t
his going to be replaced?

We'd only be independant if we're outside the EU; but Salmond doesn't want that. Bizarre! With 18 instead of 11 MEPs; we'd not have a say when there's 488 plus MEPs. It seems to me we'd have less independence

342

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 12:26:33
440
Can you not see the same in yourself
343

frank mcbride,

lusitania 03/05/2009 12:26:42
TO ALL VOTERS IN SCOTLAND.

Be prepared for a tsunami of fears and smears from Unionist politicians and their acolytes over the coming year.

The evidence of this destructive force is clearly evident in the Unionist comments on this thread.

When challenged on the benefits of the Union to Scotland, the responses are variously:

Personal attacks on SNP politicians,
Attacks on the intelligence of the people of Scotland,
Derision of competence of people of Scotland,
Negation of Scotland's natural resources.

These are only some of the tactics of the Unionist apologists as I could also have mentioned accusations of racism, parocialism and lies about the lack of achievement by the SNP administration.

Each of the Unionist apologists has been given the opportunity to expound on the benefits of the Union; to this point (#339), none has done so. I doubt that this will have changed by the time this thread is finished.

Every Union apologist comment has been full of negativity, oozing smear and fear. WHY???

The answer? They have no answer.
344

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:27:59
451 Yes it's a neat trick Labour played. Make the world seven times more dangerous (according to Bergen and Cruickshanks) and then demonise the people who say that was wrong. What we need is a bit of WW1 spirit. Over the top and don't ask any questions. My country right or wrong. That's the Labour way.
345

English Voice,

03/05/2009 12:28:01
454. "Be prepared for a tsunami of fears and smears from Unionist politicians and their acolytes over the coming year."

LOL - 452! Doomed, you are all doomed!

Scotland is too poor, small, tartan, misty, rainy and silly to be independent!

346

English Voice,

03/05/2009 12:28:51
454. "Every Union apologist comment has been full of negativity, oozing smear and fear. "

So? We play to our strengths!

avanti the Union!
347

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 12:34:54
452 emm
Have you been somewhere else.You are going over trashed arguments.If you can't come up with a reason,that stands up,why there should be a union go away.Or are you a just a fly battering at the window.
348

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 12:41:36


As I predicted the cyber gnats are missing the point of my post.

I'm not saying that those who vote SNP are racists or fascists (though there is a vein of putrid anti English sentiment that runs through their support).

My point is that the SNP in Scotland offer an easy alternative in the way that the BNP do in England. An easy answer, a one stop solution, to complex and multi faceted problems.


All your problems are because of the Muslims/Asians Blacks/ Immigrants/Refugees/Asylum Seekers.

Get rid of them and your problems will be solved.

All your problems are due to Scotland being in the Union.

Just leave the Union and all your problems will be solved.


349

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 12:42:22
407 unanswered
I think you will find that if you do the maths there is more Scots,per head of pop,going to you uni.Not always agood thing,especially for parties trying to pull the wool over ignorant eyes.
350

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 12:45:07
460
It is not as simple as that and you know it.Or if you don't you should listen to your mother and not talk ill of your betters
351

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:46:40
460 I can't speak for all nationalists but I can speak for me. You are wrong. Independence does not offer an easy alternative. The easy option is to keep on voting Labour and blame England for all our problems. Being independent means taking responsibility and sorting out the problems for ourselves.
352

frank mcbride,

lusitania 03/05/2009 12:49:56
#460, Stan Butler.

A valiant attempt at AM2 tactics.

Keep your thinly disguised racism to yourself.
353

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:50:20
460 And personally I welcome the recent immigration of new people. They have a positiveness about them and a can do attitude which has been sadly lacking in Scotland for a long time. Independence will be a kick up the @rse to all the lazy and apathetic people who currently don't participate in civic and political life. That has got to change.
354

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 12:53:37
#461

You can think what you like, but below are the facts!

The lazy scotch manage to produce only 1(7%) in 14 of new undergraduates, yet claim their 10% of the UK population.

Another scotch myth

A higher percentage of scots gain entry to university than do the English!!!

Wrong

From UCAS wbsite 15-Jan-2009 tinyurl.com/cvuzer


650 new undergraduates per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !


498 new undergraduates per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
355

Hugh Roscombe,

03/05/2009 12:58:06
Scotland's coastline is roughly 69% of total UK coastline. Funnily enough it's over two-thirds.
356

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 12:58:10
Off topic.Anyone watching the politics show.A mortgage advisor was just on saying it's her choice to work 70hrs a week.Now it strikes me if that is the case there should be 2 people doing her job at a rate of pay that is commensurate,fair and doesn't need excessive overtime in order to survive.
357

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 13:04:24
466
According to those figures you are right.?.
358

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:04:58
468 I wouldn't believe anything someone in that line of work says. According to them they never stop it's just busy busy busy all the time. I reckon they actually spend most of their time drinking tea.
359

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 13:05:36
470
Agreed.
360

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 13:07:41
The point was that she was trying to justify something that at the moment with unemployment as it is.Is unjustifiable.
361

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:10:24
474 Employers will always try to get two jobs out of one person. That way they only have to pay income tax for one (we don't pay income tax employers do). That's why there is an EU time directive which we have nobly volunteered not to pay any attention to.
362

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:12:39
if England had the same size public sector as the scotch have, it would mean 1 million taken of the dole in England.
363

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 13:12:42
Where are the nutters.Getting medication maybe.Ah well time for mine.
364

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:15:39
476 You really are a dummy. England and Scotland are different places, not least geographically. You don't have the equivalent of the Highlands and Islands and we don't have the equivalent of London and the South East. That's why direct comparisons are largely futile and we need separate governments.

365

Hugh Roscombe,

03/05/2009 13:16:06
476 (8% 11% etc)

Your call is very important to us - please hold.
366

Jim P,

03/05/2009 13:20:20
Scotland has just a year left to be run from London by New Labour, then it can look forward to being run from London by the Tories for the next 5 years. A new "democratic deficit" will emerge - remember the medicine that Thatcher served up to the Scots? Haud yer noses when ye swally it!

The SNP is the only party that will put Scotland's interests first.

VOTE SNP.

367

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:22:29
#479

you scotch pay the same rate of income tax as the English, but consume 25% more of the expenditure, upon independence the english wont be seding truck loads of cash up north to keep bailing you out.
368

Hugh Roscombe,

03/05/2009 13:23:40
482

You posted all this pash on the Herald with yer % moniker.
369

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:25:18
#479

1 out of 3 unemployed in London are white!


9 out of 10 unemployed in scotland are white!


1000 woman shipped into London under the forced marriage visa , means 100 white scotch on unemployment benefits.
370

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:25:40
482 Yeah yeah there are lies damned lies and statistics. Just wish us well and wave goodbye.
371

Hugh Roscombe,

03/05/2009 13:26:16
484

Baloney Mr %.
372

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:26:49
484 You appear to be a racist as well as a stranger to logic.

Bye.
373

IainGlasgow,

03/05/2009 13:27:52
#482

And we won't be sending barrels of oil down south to pay for London's transport infrastructure.
374

Hugh Roscombe,

03/05/2009 13:29:36
The Answer

"8% of UK, consumes 11% of social security "

I think that was your moniker in the "good old days on the Herald"
375

IainGlasgow,

03/05/2009 13:31:52
#484

Maybe so but London has a far larger ethnic minority population than Scotland does so your statistics are not really valid.
376

Alan, New Zealand,

Leeds 03/05/2009 13:32:20
I see the merchants of doom are still too scared to contemplate independence.
One day they will have the courage, foresight and belief of other nations.
377

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:35:40
#486

Facts

tinyurl.com/c7bly3


you lazy scotch should hang your lazy heads in shame, but we all know it's just a scotch thing, living on benefits, not contributing, the taliban could take lessons from the scotch!
378

Observer,,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:37:43
493 The Taliban are muslims dear they don't drink Scotch. Now do run away please the grown ups are trying to talk.
379

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:39:55
#490

every £10 spent on muslims in london, means an extra £1 for the white scotch under the barnett formula, imagine that, the lazy scotch depending on the likes of forced marriages etc so that they can dig deeper into the trough....
380

,

03/05/2009 13:42:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
381

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 13:43:44
£ 6 billion raised from stamp duty England

£ 3 billion spent on council tax benefit England


£250 million raised from stamp duty scotchland

£400 million spent on council tax benefit scotchland

Is that what "the obese one" meant by saying the scotch will have the English doing a jig!
382

zigzag,

Tecumseh Canada 03/05/2009 13:55:15
Scotland wont get independence until they win the World Cup.

And that wont happen in a pig ear.

The english have you by the NUTZ big time.
383

Geoff,

sa 03/05/2009 13:57:26
504 for the Union.

Allright Spookums I know it doesn't have the same ring to it!(the 504 bit that is..)
384

The Answer,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 14:00:26
warthog,
it's about time you got a job, remember 9 out of 10 unemployed scotch are white, i'm certain your white...
385

MoiraMac,

03/05/2009 14:00:30
'The Answer' please

who are 'you scotch'?

386

,

03/05/2009 14:10:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
387

MoiraMac,

03/05/2009 14:10:51
Never mind 'The Answer' it doesn't matter. I have to go now, I'm off to Asda for some
malt
Beef
pancake
egg
Butter
Ale
Broth
maybe tomatoes
No dogs allowed in Asda so I'll leave the 'pooper scooper' with you guys I think you might need it.
Stay Rufus!
388

Geoff,

sa 03/05/2009 14:17:16
I really enjoy these debates most of the time but occasionally I am reminded of "Monty Pythons Contractual Obligation Album"-in particular the track"I like Traffic Lights". On a lazy Sunday afternoon such as this my mind wanders there...
"I like Traffic Lights
I like traffic lights
I like traffic lights
But not when they are red"
"I like traffic lights
I like...."
Oh God I am so bored by all of this..!

Oh that some other issue that did not utilise the words SNP Unionist Independence 1707 Labour etc etc etc could stir enough pasion to elicit over 500 posts!:)
389

noswod,

Honestas 03/05/2009 14:24:08
Unfortunately Scotland is bust and if it was independant it would be very bust. All the faults of the Scottish elite political character are illustrated by the ex elitely educated Scottish Banking economist who runs the SNP and the ex Kirkclady Edinburgh University Educated Prime Minister. Egoistical, arrogance, thirst for power at all costs, refusal to accept economic and political reality, blind refusal to accept the facts, locked into the Political Paridigm of the class war and for Scotsmen they canny count how much money there is in the treasury and match income with expenditure. Scotlands is unviable without the additional infusion of the £1,610pa public expenditure per heed given free by WhiteHa. This supports the 70% of the Scottish Economy that is dependant on public expenditure. Unfortunately WhiteHa is bust having tae throw in the kitchen skin tae save the Twa Scottish banks. Meanwhile doon in London the Tories led by the Cameron/Astors are hatching a plan tae close Scotland doon once the Labour party is kicked Oot. Forget aboot the oil arguement, its a gone and we dinny own it onyway. The dream of a Scottish economy being driven by a world-class financial services industry was an over inflated dream. A bunch O Scotmen who couldny add up got control of the banks and its over the edge O Arthurs seat. The only way to save Scotland is frae everyone tae vote Labour at the next election and perhaps force a hung UK parliament wi the Liberals and of course send Ecky back tae the bank vault frae which he came from. Otherwise its doon frae £33bn Govt spend in Scotland tae £20bn and Holy Loch, Rosyth and Govan closed doon (Otherwise the remaining last parts of Scottish manufacturing. Aye it will be Thatcher Mark Twa frae the Scots making Thatcher Mark I look like a nursey school picnic.
390

Nelson51,

Newcastle 03/05/2009 14:24:37
#231 Jane Shore,London

"Aren't you proud that a "Brit" developed the WWW."

If it wasn't for a Scotsman inventing the television, you would never have had the WWW.
391

THE REAL BLOCKEM,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 14:29:57
Rufus T-Firefly at 1 .... ‘‘As usual, Salmond's ideology comes first whilst the people of Scotland come a very poor second.’’

Spot on. Alex Salmond is currently funding Morag Alexander, Scotland's EHRC commissioner, to bring ‘‘new migrants’’ to Scotland to fill jobs. What jobs? Ms Alexander suggests a number of *"soft levers" to overcome barriers to employment for ‘‘new migrants’’, including speedier recognition of qualifications and better access to English language classes.

Scotland has a ready qualified unemployed work force, and more on the way, AND, they can speak English. Why is Salmond giving Scottish jobs to ‘‘new migrants’’ in preference to unemployed Scots. Perhaps he doesn’t have a high opinion of Scots.

*‘‘soft levers’’ = jumping the unemployment queues.
392

Hugh Roscombe,

03/05/2009 14:39:43
522

Spot on!
393

Nelson51,

Newcastle 03/05/2009 14:42:17
#306. Stan Buttler

"Anyone who is proud of the country they were born in, which is no more than an accident of birth, something over which they have no control, is an idiot."

Scots are proud of the beautiful country they were born in, thats why they want their children to see it.
Sorry to hear you are an accident of birth.
394

THE REAL BLOCKEM,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 14:46:06
522 and 523 ....

You both got it wrong, 521 is my comment .... THE REAL BLOCKEM.

521 - ‘‘Your so silly’’, ‘‘you twatt’’.
522 - Not spot on!
395

Hugh Roscombe,

03/05/2009 14:47:14
525

I take it I'm spot off then? Oh well.
396

The Scotchman,

03/05/2009 14:49:02
#514 honk

It still existed in 1921 as there was still something to "unite" to.

If Scotland left, it could not be a "United Kingdom of Great Britain".

Try uniting to yourself and get back to me.
397

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 14:49:15
#478 Col. Blimp­IV*


'In Scotland we have the opportunity to break the mould'


Oh, I see.

A separate Scotland will be like no other country that has ever existed.

Wouldn't you prefer to just move to Atlantis?

Or Narnia?

Or The Big Rock Candy Mountain?



398

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 14:53:19

#528 The Scotchman

I have often wondered how many angels could balance on the end of a pin.

Do you have an opinion on the matter?

399

MoClana,

03/05/2009 14:53:28
Are there any genuine Unionist posters here from Scotland...or is this just a platform for the anti Scots and Brit nats south of the border to attack SNP and anything remotely pro Scottish.

Fortunatley, you cringing numbskulls wont get a vote in any referendum, thats left to the Scots to decide their future.

The very fact that there are very few (if any) genuine Scottish Unionists on here tells you all you need to know.

Keep up the cyber war lads, every time you talk our country down , support for independence goes up !

Saor Alba
400

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 14:57:39
# 524 Nelson51


Then they may be said to be glad to have been born in Scotland.

Or relieved to have been born in Scotland.

But not to be proud to have been born in Scotland. That's just silly. Like you.



401

MoClana,

03/05/2009 14:58:16
514 # Smeeee

The United Kingdon continues to exist after cotland has left?

MMMM Can you tell me, which other Kingdoms England will then be united with, thus justifying the name United Kingdom?

BWAHAHA EEJIT
402

Nikostratos,,

03/05/2009 14:59:28
http://www.snp.org/node/15197

Westminster voting intentions:

SNP - 30%
Lab - 32%
Tory - 21%
LibDem - 13%

66% pro-union parties
30% for The Nationalist party


I AGREE that the Scottish Government should negotiate a new partnership so that Scotland becomes an independent country - 37%
I DO NOT AGREE that the Scottish Government should negotiate a new partnership so that Scotland becomes an independent country - 52%
http://www.snp.org/node/15217

52% NO
37% yes

the question is Alex Salmond a 'LIAR' or are the snp
polls false..

66% pro-union parties
30% for The Nationalist party
403

Hugh Roscombe,

03/05/2009 15:00:12
"GORDON BROWN was preparing for a third embarrassing climbdown last night as the government signalled full-scale retreat over plans to privatise the Royal Mail"

Can it GET any worse?
404

MoClana,

03/05/2009 15:02:32
Stan = Honestly, is there no forums on the BNP website ?

Its clear you want an anglo Saxon untopia with Scotland in its place, but it is not going to happen and your dribbling would be better served in your own country.

I do not know the BNP web site address, but you might get it under yellow pages, look up under ........narrow minded anglo saxon racisits...good luck!
405

Stan Butler,

03/05/2009 15:03:58

#531 MoClana

You are using the old Nazi tactic of equating your political party with a country.

'Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer!'

The Scottish people don't support the SNP. The SNP are a minority administration under a PR system. If they thought they had any chance of winning a referendum it would have been done and dusted by now.
406

MoClana,

03/05/2009 15:11:11
53 NICKY - Absolutely right, as polls are correct ( unless the ones thst show support for independence and snp increasing) then seeing that nearley 40% in the lowest of polls support Independence, then the question should be put to a referendum

What? your sh**t scared of the outcome of such a vote and you cant explain the discrepancy between those who support a referendum (75%) and those who would not vote for independence (57%)

MMMM I can see your prediciment! it might be too close to call eh?

Well lets just get it over with and stop trolling these forums trying to lecture the Scots on whats good for them....we have had 300 years of that already and still the pesty Scots will not give up in the claim for Independence !!!!
407

bluepict,

03/05/2009 15:13:49
Oh dear, I don't think some of you folk get it at all!
Independence for Scotland is a matter of pride,of self-respect,of self - preservation, of survival as an ancient people.We, as I understand it, are the oldest Nation in Northern Europe.But all i'm hearing from the nay sayers about what Independence means to them is all to do with money and power. These folk are afraid of taking their hands out of the Westminster till!

Same old,same old! But as long as there is a hundred of us alive........ DON"T COUNT ON IT!!!
408

MoClana,

03/05/2009 15:16:17
539 = Butler ? Eh, the Scots do not support the SNP?

Well fek me, last time i checked they one the election? is that not a democratic mandate to govern a country ? or is it only valid when its a Unionist party that wins??

Question , questions , hows about the big question of a referendum? mmmm though so another big unionist mouth s**t scared to see it put to a vote becuase they know they outcome will be to close to call

You wouldnt have any more forums to spout your brit nazi venom then would you!

Anyway. did you get the BNP's number yet?
409

,

03/05/2009 15:19:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
410

Mìcheal a Eilean Rùim,

Richmond 03/05/2009 15:23:09
salus populi suprema lex esto - The welfare of the people is to be the highest law.
I agree. what I do not understand Rufus' determination that no matter what it takes, Scotland must become a failed state.
I remember watching the pro-French collaborators in Algiers being hanged from lamp posts as the Foreign Legion pulled out.
Verbum sapienti, Rufus - a word to the wise.
411

THE REAL BLOCKEM,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 15:25:20
MoClana at 538 .... ‘‘I do not know the BNP web site address, but you might get it under yellow pages, look up under ........narrow minded anglo saxon racisits...good luck!’’

You wont find the BNP under ‘‘narrow minded anglo saxon racisits’’. Google BNP, this will take you to the BNP website and their many forums. Read the forums - you wont find any comments from ‘narrow minded anglo saxon racisits’’ - the moderators will not allow this low standard type of comment. Also, read the forums, your education is out-of-date, try and keep up with that which is happening around you. You will also find that there are thousands of new visitors to the BNP website every month - it’s the fastest growing website of all British political parties .... good luck and good reading!
412

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 15:25:47
518 noswod
Fake Scots tongue.No knowledge of Scotlands political geographical map(the Holy Loch was American and shut down years ago) you are english and bnp aren't you?
413

Nikostratos,,

03/05/2009 15:34:34
#540 wardog

Because you are just a nerd at heart thats why....

here wardog ha! ha! ha! why don't you tell everybody about that great revolutionary ha! ha! ha! idea of yours
you remember Rebel Rebel he! he! ho! ho!

You know you called on the nats he! he! he! to your protest rebel rebel and nobody that is nobody turned up no support for wardog not a drop ha! ha! ha!

all these Nationalist the 110% boys who post on here 24/7 about the great Scottish republic he! he! he!
they didn't go either not one of em...what a load of turncoats.

they said they couldn't go because
"had to put the washing out"
"would be there but can't take a day of work"
"gotta take the cat to the vets but good luck"
"must finish me knitting"

etc etc etc.
But the fact is nobody supported the idea at all
aside from posting on the internet.

wardog you are a loser..ha! ha! ha! ha!
414

Brian M,

Edinburgh 03/05/2009 15:34:38
I think the only people to have benefited in real terms from decades of Labour-dominated Scotland pre-SNP are the Labour politicians at all levels.
415

MoClana,

03/05/2009 15:36:23
550 BLOCK ERM?

Brilliant, you have just outed yourself as a Anglo Saxon Nationalist......dont bother trying to lecture me on how being a Brit nat is in Scotlands interest etc etc, and please do not tell me that because you have a few policemen, and a vicar as party members you are an all inclusive organisation.

You are a party by defualt , born out of failed immigration polices by your own Westminster MP's elected by the voters of England - NOT Scotland.

The BNP rise reflects concerns of the indigeneous people of England, beaten by poverty, confused on who they are and how they should behave in their own land.

Scotland knows who its, what Scotland does not need is posters like you, who try to convince us that unless we rally behaind the Butchers Apron then we are at threat.

This is your war, not Scotlands.
416

Geoff,

sa 03/05/2009 15:36:50
517 Col. Blimp 1v-Hi Blimp! Bet you that Meths fellow is lurking somewhere for the 600.I'll have to keep my wits about me.
417

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 15:38:19
Are there any screenwriters,playwrights out there willing to come up with a script to show what has been done to our country.Hopefully redressing the balance of all the lies that come out of westmidden.Something contemporary highlighting the struggle we've been through and still are.We have to fight the misinformation of all those who have a vested interest in the union.
418

Media at One,

03/05/2009 15:39:04
Oh whingers of Scotland
when will we hear
the end of your whining
419

Geoff,

sa 03/05/2009 15:42:22
528 Scotchman-actually the term United Kingdom of South Britain and NI could mean that all the inhabitants or remaining constituents were united under the Monarchy of Eliabeth the 2nd.
If u want to be picky that is.
531 MoClana-if roughly two thirds of the Scots electorate vote for Unionist Parties then the other conclusions that you might arrive at are that Unionists are not as fond of these forums as Nats or the SNP have a really good and vocal cyber organisation or that most Unionists are older Scots or that younger Scots eventually see the light or..
There are other explanations.
420

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 15:43:49
558 mao(chairman?)
Only 1 type of person whingeing on here.And if you think it's bad now wait until all of you unionists have no union.
421

JC1,

Glasgow 03/05/2009 15:44:31
So, salmond's still promoting his backward looking scots as victims mentality with it's covert anti English agenda.
Look why doesn't he just go away. we don't want his bluster and lack of competence anymore. No wonder that noones coming to his 'homecoming'
422

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 15:46:26
559 Geoff
Don't mean to be picky but who is Elizabeth the 2nd?
423

Geoff,

sa 03/05/2009 15:46:38
549 Cynicus in exile-what about me-dont I qualify :(
424

Geoff,

03/05/2009 15:48:28
562 Goldenayr-touche! A rare slip on my part. If of course NI and Wales also left then it would be correct to refer to her as Elizabeth the second.
425

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 15:49:32
561
Don't know who this noones is but I think he'll be welcome.
426

goldenayr,

Alba 03/05/2009 15:50:37
564 Geoff
You're welcome
427

Nikostratos,,

03/05/2009 15:58:02
see wardogs done a runner same as on the Scottish Unionist blog when he got filleted...again