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Ae fond kiss is one to slaver

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Published Date: 18 January 2009
BIRTHDAY CARDS fill the living room of the Govan home Alex Williams shares with his mum. He turned 26 last week, by which time the striker thought his shelves might be displaying football mementoes. These are notable by their absence. Shelf space should be cleared for a picture of Williams kissing referee Steve Conroy, though.
A whackily joyful goal celebration of his last-gasp equaliser for Ayr United as a late substitute in their all-Ayrshire Homecoming Scottish Cup tie a week ago made for more than an image to treasure. In that instant, the player truly escaped the clutches of past sore points and misdemeanours – real and imagined – to become a good news story again.

The BBC cameras are just packing up as Williams comes to the door, and he hasn't long stopped giving his Sky+ heavy duty to relive the superb first-time volley and subsequent smacker that "has built everything up to something right good" and made him "happy after all the stuff in the past that got me down". Everyone wants to talk to him about the football again, he says, probably for the first time since he was part of the Clyde team that humiliated Celtic in the Scottish Cup three years ago.

Folk have always wanted to hear what Williams has had to stay for himself. The pre-occupation, though, has been why a one-goal-every-two-games striker since his teenage years with Stirling Albion allowed his love of a flutter and fondness for a "swally" to get in the way of unleashing his free-scoring instincts in the top flight. And, of course, they have always wanted the real story behind unfounded allegations that he was part of a betting ring of Morton players who placed £10,000 on Airdrie at 16-1 to win the 2003-04 Second Division championship when the Cappielow club led by 11 points… only to finish three places below the New Broomfield teams as Williams' scoring touch deserted him.

Disarmingly candid and honest about his career downs, he seems to have a photographic memory when raking through the details of them. "They stick with me. There have been good times with lots of goals, but I can't remember them," Williams says. Such openness has probably not served him well, he says, but he can't be any other way. "I can't lie, I've said when I have done something I shouldn't have. But I have admitted to a couple of fall-outs with managers and have been tagged with all sorts of other stuff that isn't true but people want to believe," he says.

Father to 19-month-old son Alec by a former girlfriend, his problem is part illustrated by the fact he doesn't take the easy way out when it is suggested to him that, now he is "off the drink" and his betting extends only to "a £5 coupon once a week", he has settled down. "My boy is my life and I've matured," Williams says. "But though I've grown up after a lot of daft things, I still have a childishness in me. Just not too much."

Certain managers haven't been able to see past his inner kid. He was top scorer for Ayr last season with 18 goals, the fifth time in five full seasons with clubs he has been their leading marksman. But while his record was up there with Andy Barrowman and Alan Russell in the Second Division, as their streaks with "better teams" earned them moves to the SPL – Barrowman joining Inverness and Russell signing for Kilmarnock – no-one came calling at Somerset for Williams. Something the garrulous, effervescent character refuses to "be grumpy about".

"Every manager I speak to, every new one that comes to a club I'm with, turns round to me and says: 'Oh, you've been known as this and this'. And I'm left thinking: 'this is the first time I've met you, so what are other people thinking?' Now that I've really got my head down and been working so hard I'd like to think I'll get the chance at the top level. I've scored goals wherever I've played."

He dreads an SPL opportunity being permanently denied him. It is why he chooses to train with Ayr's youths on Monday and Wednesday mornings, in addition to his senior sessions on Tuesdays and Thursday nights as a part-timer earning "a half decent wage". "I go into the town to meet pals and watch games and always come across guys who say 'I could have been…' I hate the thought of being one of those 'I could have been…' players.'"

Williams couldn't have been more vociferous in his denunciation of the infamous Morton betting claims, which he says were the start of a downward spiral. "When I was called in by the manager John McCormack and chairman Douglas Rae for a second time I said to them 'this has gone too far, you have to do something about it'. I did then go to the bookies every other day and whenever I got paid, but I was the same as many young guys. If anyone had laid £10,000, a bookmaker would have a record of it. They have cameras. It was never traced because it never existed. But the muck chucked was never washed out."

He effectively received his jotters at Cappielow after admitting to being in a casino until five in the morning on a Thursday night. He was accused of being drunk. "Again I said, 'let's go to the casino and look at their cameras'. I didn't even have a soft drink in my hand that could have been mistaken for alcohol."

Eventually, after a fruitless loan with Queen of the South, he was made to train on his own with one coach making him "run and run" day after day "which I put my all into and always did as if I wanted to be there." His treatment led to him believe joining the army was the only answer.

But a trial from Clyde allowed him to get his career up and running again. Graham Roberts told him his past was of no importance and, under the guidance of the former Rangers defender and his assistant Joe Miller, he found a spirit among a group of fellow discards that gave him his edge back. Early in 2006, however, he tried out life in Australia for three months before returning home.

A "frustrating" stint at Ross County and a return to Clyde then followed before his predatory instincts found a happy home at Ayr. Currently being kept out of striking positions by Bryan Prunty and David Gormley, on the back of lay-off that resulted from having his ankle "melted" by a tackle in a pre-season game against Crusaders, he is convinced regular starts under Brian Reid – "I'm really tight with him" – will come again.

A first in weeks might even arrive in the Sky-screened cup replay at Rugby Park on Thursday, which will once more be officiated by Conroy. "That's good because he is a ref you can have a bit of banter with," Williams says. "When I went up to shake his hand at the end of the game last week, he said 'don't you kiss me again' before laughing and saying 'well done, son'."

One kiss of life for Williams' ambitions might just prove enough.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 January 2009 8:58 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Ayr United FC
 
1

,

18/01/2009 10:01:42
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 10:14:22
Gordon says;

Aiden's not for sale. In fact none of the players are for sale.

let's hope the media listen to the man for a change and maybe, just maybe the media will stop dragging Celtic into every problem that Rangers have. The full Rangers squad is up for sale yet the media decide to make up a story about Spurs being in for Aiden. We know it was made up because Harry Redknapp in person denied there was a shred of truth in the story.

God bless ya Gordon and your mighty hoops.
3

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18/01/2009 10:34:34
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sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/01/2009 10:37:48
#4.celtic..and your point is ???
in wont go onto who are the champions..which team is having to sell a player etc etc

i really meant to poast what a discracefully biased piece of trash tom english has written..concocted over a glass of port with sir dave xxx
5

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/01/2009 10:40:44
jack..its funny in the 90's rangers dominated scottish football..celtic hardly had 2 bob to rub together..the fans started a movement for change..and the celtic fans were described as paranoid...today its completely the other way around
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 10:41:39
4

Broxy Bear, up for sale
Broxy Bear, up for sale

God Bless ya Gordon
7

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 10:43:10
Jack you might as well come clean and tell everyone you are PUNDIT/NINENRO in disguise.

All too obvious wee man.
8

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 10:45:03
3

Worse still, Yogi Hughes bottled out fo saying anything after the game. That is sad when an honest hard working man is cheated and then is legally bound from speaking the truth.

Some democracy we live in, don't you think?
9

forbesy1873,

18/01/2009 10:47:54
10

Or maybe, just maybe, he didn't think he had anything to complain about.
Just a thought.
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 10:48:16
6 Cosmos

Tom English and Murray have a point about a few faceless people slagging him (Murray) and Rangers. But why didn't anyone from Rangers acknowledge that their are 5000 members in the RST and last night the secretary was on BBC Scotland giving a very rational argument - hardly faceless and hardly lunatic.

Funny, how Murray and Co. never commented on that but instead chose to ignore it.


11

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 10:51:08
11

He was gasping to speak his mind, but every second breath he was saying, "I have to be careful what I say" or "I cannae say too much about that" He even when as far as saying "I canne question the ref's integrity"

He wanted to compalin alright as anyone who had just be cheated would. But the powers that be have not only allowed cheating but have told the victims to shut it or else. This system would not be tolerated in any walk of life in a western democracy - only in Scottish Football.
12

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 10:51:51
Hey Jack/Pundit

Just for you wee man...

GOD BLESS GORDON STRACHAN
13

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 10:58:32
CHRIS SUTTON IS ON SKY SPORTS 1

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18/01/2009 12:10:55
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 12:33:19
16 Hi Bing

You are absolutely correct.

The secretary of RST spoke sense and in a very rational and articulate way.

He wasn't some rabid bigot, he was erudite and obviously fairly well educated. He stated RST has 5000 members - a fact that escaped Murray and Smith who mentioned RST as if they were a mere few malcontents.

The truth is, RST have a valid case to be disgruntled. They maybe don't necessarily deserve better, but they have a right to expect better.

Murray and Smith are ignoring them and attacking them as some sort of anachronistic tiny minority. They are not. If Rangers continue to fritter the fans hard earned cash away and continue to fail on the park, then this core of the "decent" Rangers support will gather momentum.

Ignore them at your peril Murray.
16

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 12:34:29
I see "the punytit" has been busy contacting the moderator.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with my post at #3.

Told a few home truths re-Rearrangerz and their continuing comfort zone with refs and with Falkirk being the latest victims of that,but nothing that was/is not spot on.

We can all see what happened yesterday.
Rearrangerz were rewarded for their player diving.
In the 46th minute of the first half,no less,they were rewarded with a penalty kick that simply never was.

EVERYONE SINGLE PERSON .....who watched referee Willie Colum reward Rearrangerz with THAT, witnessed that it was not a penalty.

What it was/is,is its a disgrace and humiliation being brought down on Scottish football as a whole.
It is a blight on the Scottish game.

Rearrangerz fanz 100% of them know that that is whats happening.
WE ALL know.

Boyd(pen) was never better christened.
Was he.

17

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 12:37:01
18

What was wrong about my post no 1?

All I did was say OF fans should post here instead of annoying the Embra crew. What's offensive about that?

The moderators here are becoming so petty, I have a good mind to contact the Scotsman in person and have a meeting with the Editor.

This censorship is being taken to extremes.
18

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 12:44:49
So good to see Celtic about to seal the move for Chedwyn Michael Evans - this will be good work yet again by Peter Lawell if we can get this promising young international for just £1m.

WGS and Peter are really looking after our future.
19

Cathcart Boy,

London 18/01/2009 12:49:24
I am not a member of the Rangers Trust. I am not in favour of any self-appointed guardians of whatever they choose. I disagree with facelessness.
However, issues are there to be faced. The clique which made Le Guen's life difficult remains at the under-performing heart of the club; Ferguson, Boyd, Adam and others. It's been clear since Kevin Thomson was injured who is the heartbeat of Rangers midfield.
However, since neither Murray nor Smith respond to well reasoned correspondence, it's not surprising that website drivel appears. Rangers fans do deserve better.
20

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18/01/2009 13:00:55
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18/01/2009 13:10:31
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 13:13:16
22 Bing/Patrick

Add to this the two US lads, Mizuno, Hutchinson and our current crop of youngsters in the first team - Aiden, Broonaldo, McD, Sammi, Shaun, Willo, Caddis, Mick, Caldo...all under 25

We could have an amazing team in a few years as each year our young players are getting great experience and becoming stronger and better.

The future is bright and it's green and white.
23

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 13:16:52

1. The holy goalie
2. The good german
3. Robbo
4. Big Mick
5. Caldo
6. Broonaldo
7. Hart
8. Aidihno
9. Skippy
10. Naka
11. Sammi

Good solid side with a mixture of skill and flair to see the Dons get theirs.
24

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 13:17:11
John Hughes is too meely mouthed when it comes to criticising Rearrangerz.
Earlier on in the season he praised "Walter" as being the best manager in Scotland.

Every person in Scotland realises that that is a nonsense,indeed a high percentage of Rearrangerz fanz want shot of him and a higher proprtion never wanted him back in the first place.

Then again yesterday Hughes repeated that nonsense statement.
Hughes is a Rearrangerz sook and will never never never say a wrong word against them.

Han hanahan hahaha..maybe he thinks he`s in with a ...thrrrppp...hahahaha...shout of beating JesterCoist to fill his boots...hahahaha...KAK.
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BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 13:21:12
Tim

An admirable choice of thread, inspired by one of our Bard's finest love poems. Indeed, a poem that included the four lines described by Sir Walter Scott as the finest verse ever composed within romantic literature, containing "the essence of a thousand love stories".

Of course, what we all have in common is a near life-long love affair with our chosen football clubs, whose triumphs take us soaring high above the clouds, and whose failures condemn us to the lowest of lows, but only until the next time. Such is the beauty of the people's game.

So, on to Pittodrie. I hope for a Celtic defeat, which in turn would re-ignite the title race. Even a draw would feel like a triumph. However, with hand on heart, I suspect that WGS will have just enough to carry his troops over the finishing line in May to the promised land of four-in-a-row.

But football, like life itself, is cyclical, and I am comforted by the knowledge that, no matter how much of an advantage Celtic appear to possess both on and off the field at the moment, and no matter the apparent depth of Rangers' problems, the wheel will turn and success will come again. If nothing else, WS and SDM appear to have finally succeeded in turning Murray Park into a production line of fine young footballers, evidenced by our domination of the under-19 scene for the last couple of seasons, the early fruits of which were witnessed at Ibrox yesterday in the shape of John Fleck. Some of WS's big money signings, such as Naismith, Edu and Lafferty also seem to have been made whilst taking a longer view.

"Although this bird has not yet taken flight, when it does it shall surpass Heaven. Although it has not yet sung, when it does it shall shake the angels."

King Weiwang, Warring States Period.
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 13:21:49
You'll not believe this but I heard a rumour from Glasgow last night.

Walter is moving upstairs at the end of the season.

Ally is taking over next season but here's the unbelievable bit...

Ian McCall will be his assistant!!!

27

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 13:23:57


The good ol` Rearrangerz.

Because of their managements miserable failures,through Murray,Bain and "Walter" they keep the rest of us going in laughter.

Sad.
Isn`t it.
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 13:24:22
27

BE - ae fond kiss is one of my favourites - studied it for my English Higher.

I can see you are feeling rather poetic today. So I urge you to watch the hoops...

Poetry in Motion

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18/01/2009 13:24:42
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 13:35:14
My Burn night poem...

Pundit, Daily and Bemused
Often keep me most amused
They talk of titles, goals and glory
But in reality; it's a different story
The hoops are going for four in a row
something that terrifies Ninenro
But as you watch the league flag fly
above Paradise high in the sky
Spare a thought for all ger posters
Who's lives are like rollercoasters
Then thank the Lord for all this fun
and that the Celtic are number ONE

Ok...so I've still got the day job.


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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 13:37:10
31

I wouldn't read too much into it.

Big Yogi and WGS are fellwo hibbees and good pals.

Yogi is just covering his @ss, he wants to keep his job.

Sad he can't speak his mind like Craig Levien.
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18/01/2009 13:38:36
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BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 13:40:19
Patrick

All opinion is subjective, however, when future generations of football fans look back on these two decades either side of the millennium, the cold hard statistics will show Walter Smith head and shoulders above everyone else with regard to writing Rangers name on trophies, the very definition of success in our sport.

Walter must be judged by his achievements during two spells with Rangers, comprising several league titles, countless domestic cups, taking Rangers to within a single goal of the Champions League Final itself, and leading the club to its first ever UEFA Cup Final.

Gordon Strachan was given an eighteen month start compared to Walter in the matter of rebuilding their respective teams. The league race last season suggests that Smith has substantially close that gap, and he threatens to take it right to the wire again this time.

Strachan has done a fine job at Celtic, but there is nothing even moderately outlandish in suggesting that Smith is the country's best manager.
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18/01/2009 13:41:14
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,

18/01/2009 13:42:26
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 13:43:15
36

Thought about using Celts but was too friendly The Celtic winds them up more.
37

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18/01/2009 13:45:03
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 13:48:25
BE

Smith's record;

Won 7 titles in an era when Celtic had not even 10% of the spending power and were in turmoil on and off the park. Smith inherited a very easy situation - even you could have managed Rangers to 9 in a row.

At Everton - nearly got them relegated.

At Scotland - bailed out too soon to judge but was maybe more organised than Bertie.

Rangers 2nd time - developed a very negative team and was super lucky to win anything - Dundee Utd should have won the cup and St Johnstone should have knocked you out the SC - In Uefa scraping through on Pens and away goals a very very lucky run.

At this moment and time Gordon Strachan is numero uno...and boy do you lot know it.

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ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 13:48:29
Hughes as praised "Walter" on at least two occassions this term as being "the best manager in Scotland.

The first I heard him say that astonoshingly nonsensical statement was about 3 months ago.

He said exactly the same yesterday prior to kick off.

Not one of the best....the best manager in Scotland.

That was why I was interested in seeing him getting tore right into Rearrangerz yesterday with the injustices served on his team at the expense of rewarding Rearrangerz.

Immediately after the game,HUGHES FAILED to take a golden oppurtunity to stick the boot into Rearrangerz and he failed to do it.
He may have said something later.But on his LIVE interview he failed and I was NOT one bit surprised.


Scotlands best manger ?

According to Hughes...."Walter".
And thats how he refers to him...."Walter".

The Man With No Surname.
40

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 13:49:04
39

I heard VoH is superb in goals, and played in goals as a boy.
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18/01/2009 13:53:48
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,

18/01/2009 13:54:07
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 13:55:17
Mon the hoops

Here we go..................
44

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 13:55:27
Tim

I could just as easily and just as legitimately claim that WGS was handed his first two titles on a plate by the poverty of the Rangers teams that were in opposition to him.

Smith was hugely successful first time round in Scotland. And this time, in his first full season, he won both cups, took the league to the last day, and reached the UEFA Final. This season, RFC are in the SPL hunt again, and well positioned in both domestic cups.
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18/01/2009 13:55:58
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18/01/2009 14:08:46
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,

18/01/2009 14:10:28
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,

18/01/2009 14:22:53
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 14:44:48
A great game so far.

Slack defending by Celtic to give the dons two sloppy goals but midfield to front we are playing well.

Second half I think we'll hit back and win this one.

Scott Brown has been MOTM so far.

Hinkel's delivery needs to be worked on. He was also at fault for the Dons second. He needs to shape up.

I fancy us to win this one 4-2, we've had a lot of chances and we look right up for it.

50

forbesy1873,

18/01/2009 14:47:12
What a quandary I am in, ah f@ck it, 'Mon the sheep!
51

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 14:48:39
Though Aiden set up Broonies goal superbly, he still has to work on his delivery. At least four times he failed to find a man with his crosses and he must do better. Same with his shooting, his couple of efforts on goal have been very poor - we deserve better...wait no, I can't use that phrase...we expect better, there...that's better.
52

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 14:50:00
52

Pundit, don't have a go at me. Take it up with Jack Morrison who posts in an identical style to you.

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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 14:50:31
55

never...never...never...
54

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 14:52:49
Listening to the match over the internet, cant get the video, sounds like the tic are all over them.

Like forbsey like to see the tic drop 3 points, might only be wishful thinking.

Had this match for a 2-2 draw on the predictor, which would be like a victory to the sheep when their home record against the tic is considered.
55

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 14:54:07
59

Brian we are playing well and have had a lot of chances.

I expect we'll take a few in the second half, we look hungry.
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18/01/2009 14:55:38
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forbesy1873,

18/01/2009 14:55:49
Daillyman, I wouldn't say Celtc are all over them, the sheep have had a good penalty claim denied in the 8th minute and a ball cleared off the line.
58

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 14:56:35
Very disappointed with both Dons goals though the Aberdeen lads took them well.

First goal - Robson and McManus both ballwatching. Mark Brown non-committal.

Second goal - ok we're down to 10 men but Hinkel and Caldo again ball watching.

59

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 14:58:00
I'd get Caddis on for Hinkel and Loovens for McManus who is struggling.
60

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 14:58:43
64

Forbes we've had one off the line as well and had many near things.

4-2 we'll win this one.
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18/01/2009 14:58:49
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:01:49
60

pundit...I never hide no matter what the result.

Ask Daily/Brian.
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:11:26
74

kipper...he was through with the kipper to beat
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:26:29
2-2 McD

Now for the winner.

We deserve victory today, we are playing briliant.
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:30:08
aberdeens third was offside and a foul...disgrace.
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:32:30
another offside goal...some cheating going on.
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:34:46
I hope Strachan punts Mark Brown tonight...the guiy hjas absolutely NO presence.
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18/01/2009 15:35:42
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BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 15:37:03
Tim

I must commend you on your prediction.

Your 4-2 looks spot on, unless there's a late goal.
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18/01/2009 15:37:40
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:37:47
85 we've been robbed today.
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:38:28
87

we need full backs...badly
73

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 15:38:46
Tim

On a serious note, I've been arguing with plenty of 'Gers on here in recent days about the folly of selling McGregor and leaving ourselves with only one good goalkeeper.

Brown is living proof of the problems that it causes!
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:41:02
Bing

I fear for Aberdeen next week...we should have scored about 5 past them today...next week Rangers will hammer them.

We've been mugged today by 3 offside goals.
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18/01/2009 15:41:05
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BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 15:43:11
thepundit

the point is that Alexander would become our first choice if we sold McGregor, and if he got injured as boruc did today, we'd have to use our next choice, as Celtic did today to their cost.
77

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 15:45:16
Must be particularly stisfying for Diamond, who had a perfectly legitimate strike ruled off at CP late last season... a decision that had a huge bearing on the destination of the flag.
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:46:59
Celtic 16 attempts at goal
Aberdeen 7

says it all really
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BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 15:48:25
Does it say it all, Tim?

RFC had more attempts on goal than Celtic in the last OF match.

Doubt if that makes you think that Rangers deserved to win, though!
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:48:30
97

Still crowing about that one BE...

What about the penalty Celtic never got at Ibrox that had a huge bearing in taking the title to the last day?
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:50:02
we were robbed and everyone knows it
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18/01/2009 15:50:47
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:51:55
Celtic players on the transfer list after that one today...

Mark Brown
Hinkel
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:52:52
105

Aye still top.
85

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 15:53:37
Tim

Surely balanced out by the penalty that shouldn't have been at CP when Broadfoot fouled outside of the box?

not to mention the McDonald goal in the same game that was clearly offside.

Two correct decisions there, and the title would have gone to Ibrox.

Water under the bridge though. This season is what counts, and now only a two point gap with both teams having played every other team once home and once away, a statistic that suggests there is next to nothing between the sides.
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Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:53:50
106 Pundit it's only half time at Tannadice.

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Daillyman,

18/01/2009 15:54:58
Thanks for the link pundit, that 2nd half has made an enjoyable weekend even better. Tim 4-2 bang on.

My predictor result had a 2-2 draw, so 3 points down the tube, the good part is the league lead now down to 2 points.

Could not believe the room for the tic wide men on the left side of the park in the 2nd half. Pretty well one way traffic in the tics favour.
88

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:56:17
109

Yes we can crow all day and night about decisions - Inverness last Oct comes to mind as does Tynecastle when Hearts got a last minute pen to make it 1-1. These decisions go for Celtic and the last OF game of the season would have been almost immaterial.

Point is - you are still hurting from Rangers failure last season. Get over it.

89

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 15:59:23
Did anyone see Mark Brown come for one cross today?

Did anyone see Mark Brown take command of a situation today?

WGS, sell M Brown NOW!
90

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:01:11
Tim arrange a demonstration outside Parkhead to get rid of Brown. lol
91

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:01:41
So can anyone tell me why Mark Kerr wasn't sent off today?

92

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:03:07
115

An Ibrox referee conspiricy.
93

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18/01/2009 16:03:54
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94

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:03:59
116

Did you hear that one through the lodge?
95

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:04:44
117

1. It was offside (only three of them were off)

2. It was a foul on VoH

96

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:06:01
118

No just having a laugh, but I suppose you're not up for that.
97

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:06:58
Oh look surprise surprise...Celtic lose and Calderwood comes on saying "It was a wonderful advert for Scottish football"

Soon everyone will be saying how great Scottish Football is, until we win the title again and then it will be rubbish, poor and every negative under the sun.
98

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:10:05
Calderwood on the third goal;

"I thought it was free kick to Celtic, to be honest"
99

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:12:42
Funny that you said yourself earlier it was "a great game so far".

Is it only a great game when the tic win?

Reminded me a lot of the Hibs match tons of pressure and possession but no finish. For the neutral (lol) it was a good game to watch, I wish I had seen the first half as well.
100

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:14:35
123

I never said it was a poor game.

I still say it was a great game and from middle to front we played really well.

101

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:19:18
Jack your master is calling you...go lick Pundit
102

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:23:56
Give Malloy and Patrick their due at least they show up on the threads after another 4-2 loss.

2 point lead at this stage of the season is BEARable.

Couple of weeks ago these threads were full predicting a 10 point lead tonight for the tic. Some tic supporters seem to forget the season lasts longer than the middle of January.
103

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:25:32
128

the season only ever lasts longer when rangers need an extension.
104

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:27:05
128

Stewart, I will never run or hide from you wee narra people. Never...never...never...
105

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:27:12
129

Or when clubs ask for postponements.
106

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:28:58
132

Jack I thought I told you to go lick your master...run along...go on shooo
107

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18/01/2009 16:29:13
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108

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:32:17
134 Patrick

I only saw the 2nd half, and after the tic drew level, I thought the Dons would cave in. Had hoped for a draw, but the Dons did us a favour.
109

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:34:32
135

And I think you'll hammer Aberdeen next week.
110

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:35:13
What happened to Boruc in the warm up?
111

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:35:48
137

And you get the Hibs again. lol
112

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:35:58
131 Stewart

Rangers asked for more postponements than celtic last season.
113

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:37:14
137

Watch for the attack of the brown trout next week.
114

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:38:35
141

Did they?
115

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:39:03
142

Jack have you been sniffing your master Pundit's arsse?
116

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:39:38
145 Stewart

Yes they did and fine you know it.
117

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:39:58
146

Tim why so bitter again.
118

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:41:43
148

Bitter? Don't ask me? Ask Pundit if his arsse is bitter? Or better still ask Pundit's Pet Poodle if Pundit's arsse is bitter?

119

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:42:19
149

Jack shooo boy...shooo

120

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:42:57
151

Pundit what you on about?

121

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:44:02
Stewart

Who is bitter?

I know Jack is rancid. But who is bitter?
122

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:44:24
146 Tim

I remember one match being called off because the Ibrox pitch was unplayable. I know Celtic requested the New Year be cancelled. I know the Motherwell match was rescheduled because of Fir Park conditions, and we had a few cup replays thrown into a 68 match season.
123

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:45:27
Oh what the heck, why educate you lot.

Got better not bitter things to do.

Pundit get yer dug under control.

Stewart - pull yer trooser leg doon.

laters losers
124

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 16:48:39
157 - Stewart

Convenient amnesia again.

Here's the facts:

Rangers requested a Gretna match away be cancelled because of a European game. The request was granted.

Rangers asked for the New Year game to be postponed after Celtic initially requested the same fixture be postponed because of bereavement. The request was granted.

later loser

125

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18/01/2009 16:51:15
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126

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:55:28
161 Malloy

Sorry I forgot the Gretna match.

My understanding was that CFC request was denied and they approached RFC to help them get the match postponed by putting in the same request. Unlike you I could be wrong in my interpretations of the O'Donnel passing and subsequent postponement.

And who is the loser today,?
127

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 16:59:16
The United keeper gave up 4 today to a team far worse than the Dons. Keep Boruc and Brown,,please.
128

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18/01/2009 17:04:45
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18/01/2009 17:09:31
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18/01/2009 17:09:58
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Jakie Rolling,

Hogwash 18/01/2009 17:17:33
Wee touch of PMT from Marion methinks.
132

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 17:25:53
177

Losing 9 on the trot at home to one team is not a myth, it is a fact. And after the tic drew level another loss for the Dons was what everyone if they are honest were thinking.
133

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 17:31:28
180

I never said the tic did not play well to win 9inro at Aberdeen. I will say it is rare to see a Celtic supporter give credit to any side that beats them or plays better over the 90 minutes than the tic.
134

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18/01/2009 17:32:33
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135

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 17:35:55
Patrick

True the Dons give the Gers a tough match in the sheepdome, but in our last visit there we should have taken three points had it not been fora poor decision by a match official. Its a conspiricy against the Gers. lol
136

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 17:39:30
I have to admit that I feared the worst when Celtic emerged victorious at Ibrox a few weeks ago to open up a seven point gap, but even then I cautioned that Celtic's next two games could prove very difficult while Rangers could easily take six points from theirs. And so it has proved.

I always think, within the strange workings of the SPL, that the 22-game point is particularly significant. It's the one and only point of the season where all the inequities are pushed aside, and everybody has played everybody else exactly once at home and once away. It is, quite frankly, the one and only point of the season where this can be said to be true, and is therefore the optimum point at which to make assessments and comparisons.

In so doing, we see that Celtic have a narrow two-point advantage, which equates to them winning on one occasion when Rangers could only draw. Both teams have lost three times, once at home and twice away, both have won and lost an OF game, and Rangers have actually scored more goals and conceded less than Celtic.

It really points to two teams who are desperately closely matched, a situation that also existed last season and saw the title race taken to the last day.

I can foresee a similar outcome this season, too.
137

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18/01/2009 17:44:59
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138

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 17:45:18
Bemused I was just about to mention you're 22 game breakdown, both sides having the same home and away fixtures.

As you state a draw the difference in the league at this time. The Gers have scored more and conceded less than Celtic, which does surprise me at this time.

Looking forward to the rest of this season, what I am enjoying is the other SPL clubs playing the OF sides with no fear, makes a lot of matches unpredictable for a change.
139

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 17:46:30
188

Good post.
140

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 17:51:09
Brian

The other teams at the top end are all making a decent fist of their meetings with the OF this season, and I think that the only truly "shocking" result involving either of the OF in the SPL this season was RFC's 1-0 defeat at Love Street. Indeed, I think it's probably fair to say that it's that game which has put Celtic on top.

Teams like Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts, Dundee Utd and Motherwell earning draws or even winning, particularly at home against either Celtic or Rangers, are not, IMO, particularly surprising, and it's the sign of a strong competitive league when the next best five sides can pretty much be depended upon to give the big two a tough game.
141

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 17:57:21
Bemused over the past 18 months the results by the so called provincial sides are not surprising at all.

In my opinion the OF sides have moved backwards in the quality of player the OF used to put on the park, and the other SPL clubs are allowing some of their younger players to gain playing experience every week regardless of results and it is paying off in the improvement of said clubs, thus helping to close the gap.
142

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18/01/2009 18:02:22
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18/01/2009 18:05:36
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Daillyman,

18/01/2009 18:09:16
197

Time for WGS, in my opinion, to give young Caddis and O'Dea a run in the back four, I may be one of the few Gers supporters to say this but I think O'Dea played at the back in the middle could be a player to hold that position for a few years. Caddis from the limited times I have seen him brings more to the table than the overpriced overrated German international at right back. As for left back there are problems there.
145

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 18:16:51
Patrick

I think that the 1-0 win at Ibrox papered over the cracks as far as Celtic are concerned.

Away defeats against Hibs and Aberdeen, coupled with home draws against Hearts and Dundee Utd, all within a reasonably short time span, cannot be dismissed as a blip.

I take nothing away from the win at Ibrox, but it was a game that could have gone either way, and if it had gone 1-0 to Rangers, then Celtic would be 4 points adrift and probably in the midst of a full-blown crisis.

WGS has two weeks left to bring in somebody who can make a REAL difference, and he'd be well advised to try. Home matches against Hibs and Rangers, an away match at Motherwell and a semi-final against Dundee Utd make it a potentially very difficult month ahead for Celtic.

Should be interesting.
146

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18/01/2009 18:17:02
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147

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 18:20:55
20 Bemused

I will have to find a Rangers supporters club in Chicago for the next OF match as we will be there that weekend, I have been told there is one I just have to get the address.
148

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18/01/2009 18:23:33
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149

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 18:24:45
203

I think as a central defender O'Dea has a lot more potential than Cuthbert who you put out on loan. He just needs to be played in his natural position.
150

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 18:27:34
205

Patrick, Hinkel has looked rusty since you signed him.

He has to be one of the poorest players I have seen win caps for Germany.
151

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 18:28:32
thepundit

Just watched the highlights. I think that every single Rangers penalty claim had some merit, although none of them were waht you would class as "stonewall".

I reckon that a "homer" of a referee, however, would probably have given at least two of those, so the referee was pretty fair.

The Falkirk red card was a little harsh, although perhaps he slid in with his studs up which made up the ref's mind. Papac's card, IMO was justified. Certainly nothing malicious or dangerous about the tackle, but definitely calculated and cynical.

All in all, I'd give that referee pass marks.
152

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 18:35:36
The BBC Radio Scotland team were at it again today.

The main commentators agression and bitterness towards Champions Celtic could not be hidden.

Listen to BBC Radio Scotlands principle commentator when he heard big Artur was forced to pull out injured in the warm up, and I quote........

Celtic have just reported that Boruc has a problem with his groin and that was why he`s been withdrawn.

Our own man down at trackside said it is more likely to be a stomach problem,considering the shape of it and his lifestyle recently."

End of BBC Radio Scotlands comment on Artur Borucs injury.


BBC Radio Scotland are a disgrace.

1)BBC Radio Scotland are a disgrace to their listeners.

2) BBC Radio Scotland are a disgrace to the licence fee payer.

Shame on BBC Radio Scotland.
Shame on them.
153

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 18:37:29
#209

If I were you I'd stop listening to them.

Why put yourself through that?

Masochistic.
Isn't it.
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18/01/2009 18:40:12
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18/01/2009 18:47:17
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ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 19:01:29
#210

You have not understood my post.

What I was saying is that the BBC Radio Scotland team are disgrace to themselves and to the BBC as a whole.

Their bitterness in commentary and indeed at times their sectarian commentary is a scandal.

BBC Radio Scotlands commentary again today was a disgrace.
157

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 19:11:44
#210

Further.

Your misunderstanding goes further.
And your use of the word masochism has been a freudian type slip when you have been having dreams,nay nightmares of Rearrangerz.

The word you were nightmaring over is not masochism.

The word you are nightmaring over is schism.
A big difference.

And an ever bigger schism in the Rearrangerz fan base hordez in their battle over the direction they are being led by the nose in.

So to repeat..not masochism...schism.
Isn`t it.
158

Royalist,

Zandvoort 18/01/2009 19:11:48
It'll be all over by Easter.

At this rate the ropey hoops will be fighting Aberdeen for 2nd place.

While the hoopyloops whine on about Rangers finances, players, board & management etc, they forgot one vital thing.

Their own team is over rated and less than ordinary.

As for next Saturday: Aberdeen 0 Rangers 2
159

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 19:18:57
Idee.

Cease and desist from your pointless and monotonous bear-baiting.

Your credibility disappeared a long, long time ago.

Only months ago you criticised Walter for "not listening to the fans" when he signed Kenny Miller.

Yet today you criticised him for "listening to the fans" by picking John Fleck.

You want to belittle WS at every turn, but when you display such amateurish inconsistency, you ruin any hope you may have had of being taken seriously by the very people that you are trying to communicate with.
160

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 19:21:47
#217

Sectarian footballing comments by BBC Radio Scotland when they cover Rearrangerz games is a serious allegation to make.

I fully understand that and wouldn`t say what I`m saying if I could not prove it.

Bitterness and blatantly biased comment entirely in favour of Rearrangerz F.C. by BBC Radio Scotland is in itself a disgrace on themselves and the entire BBC.
Particularly when it is constant.

However,sectarian comment by BBC Radio Scotland takes the scandal to another level entirely.
161

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 19:48:40
#220

You still dont understand.

I have never tried communicating with you.
Occassionally I have had to put you in your place by responding,but I take no pleasure from that and wish there was no need to reply in the first place.

That aside.

You say that today I criticise "Walter" for caving in to the Rearrangerz fanz that are creating a schism(N.B.not masochism) within the Rearrangerz fan base.

You are wrong and you know you are wrong.
What I am saying is that your accusation is a lie,not to put too fine a point on it.

Whether you are entitled to a detail of why you are wrong,I`m not quite sure.
For now,I am leaving it at that.
162

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 19:56:13
#222

I state that I have proof in my previous post.

Whether it would stand up in a court of law,might be open to speculation.
However, when I heard what I believe to have been a blatantly sectarian comment by BBC Radio Scotland whilst covering a Rearrangerz game,I took the time,place,where and who said what.

I`m quite sure the BBC Radio Scotland could pull it out of their archive.
163

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18/01/2009 19:58:12
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164

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 20:12:31
Bing we gave away a few silly free-kicks but the team should know how to defend set plays.

If Celtic were up against a good team God knows how many they would have conceded.

We need fullbacks and a backup keeper.

Another thing VoH is not fit - the third and fourth goals were his man who he was supposed to be marking.

Mark Brown though must be one of the easiest keepers to beat. He never attempted to save any except the last one which was practically on the goal line - a few yards from him. He has to go and I have been saying this since last season when he was woeful over in Russia in the CL Qual and then again up at Inverness. The lad had just not got it for top class - he should be plying his trade somewhere like Alloa or even Rangers.
165

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 20:13:44
226 Pundit there you go wanting details again - can't you just accept some people are telling you the truth.

Thinking everyone is a liar leads me to believe you must be a liar to be this distrustful.
166

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 20:15:36
Back in a bit dinner...

Ps Chapel tonight. The Gospel was about renaming Simon, Peter the Rock and the Lord said "upon this rock I will build my church". Made me think of Peter (Petre) Czech and how we could build a team on him.

167

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 20:17:13
Not quite true, Idee.

We have had a few extended exchanges that would definitely qualify as "communication". If you feel that you are "putting me in my place" then who am I to doubt that you truly believe that, even if it doesn't seem that way to me (or for that matter any other intelligent poster who bears witness to it).

I have no intention of getting stuck in the semantics of your argument. The relevant point is that you have made negative comment towards Walter for not allowing outside influence to inform his decision to sign Miller, and likewise you have placed a negative inference on his decision to play young Fleck by suggesting that it was due to external pressure.

It is either a positive attribute for a manager to live and die by his own decisions without consideration to outside influences, or it isn't.

You, however, want it both ways, and you do yourself no favours.

Contradictory and inconsistent.
Isn't it.
168

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 20:35:01
#230

No.
It`s not.

But you are.
Aren`t you.
169

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/01/2009 20:40:57
well its shaping up to be an exciting season again..who would believe the old thread bears could be top by 3pm on saturday...didnt see the game so cant comment...second hand comments suggest mcmanus and caldwell were pants..suprised big jan and crosas didnt start..and yes bbc sportsound is a disgrace..billy dodds and chick youngs brown noses can be smelled over the radio xxx
170

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18/01/2009 20:46:28
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171

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/01/2009 20:49:21
mcmanus was poor last year..which i thought was the pressure of being captain..so when we won the league i expected a better season from him this year and he has actually got worse..
caldwell i dont mind..he needs to remember his limits though...
172

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/01/2009 20:52:49
#236..if i remember right rangers sold alan hutton when they were top of the league..so maybe boyd will be sold between 2.45 and 4.45 on saturday xxx
173

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 20:55:29
Boyd will be sold if and when a club that he wants to move to makes him an offer that he finds acceptable.

RFC will have no control over the timing of it, given that they have already agreed the required fee.
174

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 20:58:56
#231

You have not commented on my post whereby BBC Radio Scotland showed today their blatant biasedness and sheer bitterness towards Champions Celtic in their forematch comments in relation to big Arturs injury.

What do you have to say on that,rather than rushing off for the gory detail of the BBC`s sectarian shame.
175

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18/01/2009 21:00:41
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176

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 21:05:47
235 sonofcosmos

Must say that Caldwell's form on the park has improved this season, and think he is a lot more dependable/steadier than McManus.

He took a lot of stick last season from some Celtic fans who seemed to forget he was filling in at right back. I think he is a decent player and would help bring along a young lad like O'Dea in the middle of you're back four.
177

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 21:06:48
Ribbonman

Are you the poster formerly known as "Hunky Dorey"?
178

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 21:15:31
241 Idee

Maybe if you posted what you heard then thepundit could respond to what you wrote down. How can he respond to the general statement you make?
179

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/01/2009 21:18:00
#242 you let yourself down with your one of the worst teams in living memory...the team due to start today had eleven internationalists in it..i wont deny downsizing has taken place but the seasons with pat mcginlay being our top scorer with something like 7 league goals.and muggleton biggins et al..the 90's had lots of rubbish..and my dad remembers celtic going 18 years or something without winning much (or indeed anything)
180

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 21:19:07
"Walter" stated in the middle of the week that there had been no further moves from anyone about anyone at Rearrangerz.

Thats not true.

And like BE "Walter" knows that not be true.

Roy Aitken had confirmed that Birmingham were still making contact with Boyd and that hopefully a deal could still be done.
This was LIVE on Sky TV he said that.

The very next day "Walter" said what he said.

But Roy Aitken could have been tellin porkies I hear the Ibrox heaving,still believing (only just) hordez scrteaming.
Which is fair enough.
Except to say that the following day,the day after "Walter" spoke and two days after Roy Aitken,big Eck The Neck confirmed that a second approach had been made to Boyd(pen).

Instaed of £12k and £7k it was restructured to £15k and £4k.

Big Eck The Neck confirmed that Boyd had turned that down too.

"Walter" was merely doing what he`s good at.

Cow dunging.
Isn`t it.
181

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 21:24:18
248 Idee

Still not provided the details thepundit asked.

I'm surprised.
182

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 21:25:47
Idee,

Pax might be looking for a lovefest he is on the Jones/Hibs thread.
183

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 21:27:15
242

Funny but where I grew up in Glasgow's west end, practically every practicising catholic said "chapel". Strangely enough when someone said they were going to church, we (catholics) assumed they were protestant.

I did indeed attend a Chapel tonight - the lady Chapel where Fr Gerald said the holy mass in his own amazing way.
184

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 21:28:40
247

Not sure he knows what he's talking about. Worst in living memory? So he must under 20 years old.

185

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/01/2009 21:29:35
#249 #250...it was chic young..he said its brilliant seeing these fe*&n b%*&$*ds getting humped...honest !!!!
186

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 21:31:02
Look at all the Rangers fans here tonight. They must be full of it after today's result.

Wait until the end of the season before you get your hopes up. We're still odds on.
187

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 21:32:54
I heard a sectarian comment by Jim Traynor on Radio Scotland last season when he said "When Arthur Boruc blesses himself at Ibrox should Rangers fans sing "We are the Papal"

Might be a joke but could be taken as sectarian.
188

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/01/2009 21:33:15
#255 thats how a footie messageboard works..you come on to gloat and have a laugh at your rivals..its fair enough xxx
189

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/01/2009 21:36:07
#256 or it could be used as evidence of why other fans think celtic fans can be a bit easily outraged..traynor is a fat parasite wind up merchant..butin the context his comments were amusing.
190

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 21:38:34
258

Pundit I had to leave - Chapel was calling and I can't miss that - not even for the Champions League Final if it was Celtic v Real Madrid. Chapel comes first isn't that right Ribbonman?

Also you are losers. You lost the title to us last season and lost again last time we played. That's losers to me.

You are a rather sensitive wee soul deep down aren't you.
191

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 21:40:27
#245

The BBC Radio Scotland are not being paid licence fee money to be blatantly biased in favour of Rearrangerz let alone let slip the occassional sectarian comment.

Thats not what we are paying them to do.

I couldn`t care less whether these BBC peepell are Rearrangerz fanz.
But they are not being paid our money to be Rearrangerz fanz whilst covering Rearrangerz games.
They should be in the terraces to express their views not sitting behind a mic and taking licence fee payers shilling.

Forums such as this might make someone high up at the Beeb look into what is being said about BBC Radio Scotland.

One things for sure.
Until the BBC Radio Scotland get rid of their blatant biasedness,then it will be getting mentioned on here.

No big deal.
192

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 21:40:42
259

Remember pre-old firm game, Rangers fans threatened to sing the hoki-koki. It was deemed to be sectarian and instead of BBC Radio Scotland pundits ignoring it and not giving it airtime - they built big discusssions around it and even encouraged fans (including Celtic) to sing it.
193

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 21:42:39
263

Moment? Naw explain?
194

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 21:44:27
#251 Brian Stewart or BS-BullShoit

Who`s talking tae you.


And anyway your love-in thats been going on with "the punytit" for several months now should be enough for you to be getting along with.
Shouldn`t it.
195

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 21:44:40
263

If you think we've put you through a lot these past few weeks then look out son...you aint seen nothing yet.
196

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 21:48:45
265

Stewart has this tendency to interfere with snide remarks or cause barnies then disappear.

I used to have a bit of respect for the guy until he started his sectarian digs.

He's another sad sack.

197

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18/01/2009 21:50:34
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18/01/2009 21:55:13
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199

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 21:57:37
268

You better write to the vatican and tell them to stop using the term because it's an inferior term invented by orangemen.

Funny you seem to know a bit about orangemen...wouldn't surprise me if you are one.

So good catholic man, tell me what is the first thing the priest does when he walks behind the Altar at every mass.
200

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 21:58:39
269

er, so what?

My Mother was a protestant from Renfrewshire.
201

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:02:34
Am I alone in thinking that Naka was really poor today. I think he must be injured or just very tired but he looked like half a player. We should have played O'Dea at left back and Robbo in the middle.
202

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18/01/2009 22:04:24
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203

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18/01/2009 22:06:16
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204

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 22:07:30
267 Tim

First of all I asked Idee a simple question about a post he had made and asked him to clarify so a response could be made by pundit.

And I dont go running away as you say, and like you're mate Pax you keep accusing me of sectarian digs, and Pax calling me a bigot.

So okay big mouth show me a bigoted post from on the threads or sectarian posts. You can't but you and you're mate Pax are the first to always bring up those subjects.

Again I say big mouth post my sectarian posts. Back up you're posts with facts and not you're typical b*llshoite.

I"m waiting.
205

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:08:17
275

When did I say I belonged to a chapel?
206

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18/01/2009 22:09:04
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207

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:10:04
273

yawn

So tell me how many orange neighbours do I have in ....Hampstead?

You're a bluenose in disguise and guess what...you've been rumbled ya dumpling.
208

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:11:37
276

Stewart

Have I ever dug you up about sectarian posts. Yes or No?

209

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:13:04
274

Pundit have you ever called anyone a name in a post? Yes or No?
210

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:13:51
283

Ribbonman is a bluenose.

He's been rumbled big time.
211

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18/01/2009 22:13:56
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212

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/01/2009 22:14:10
glad this thread has gone astray..it lets me break my addiction easier and go watch motd 2
night xxx
213

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:15:39
280

"Not the person you thought I was"

How do you anything about my persona or character you clown? This is an anonymous forum, anyone could post here and you wouldn't know them from Adam. Get real son.

214

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 22:15:48
Tim

I reckon that Ribbonman is the poster that used to be known as Hunky Dorey, as I suggested earlier. If that is the case then he is certainly a Celtic supporter and almost certainly a Catholic too. More than this, he and you have traded verbal blows before. Indeed, you once accused him of being me.

I think Celtic's defeat this afternoon has put you on the defensive and lowered your mood somewhat. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that, we all deal with disappointment differently.

There's been some welcome football banter on here recently. Let's not take a backward step.
215

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:16:13
288

You sir are a liar.
216

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 22:17:23
279 dv

Read the post I made, try to have an opinion of you're own if you can.

No, not pundits dad, this is an open forum where comments are made on any post in the thread.

Tim can come on and say whatever he likes about anyone, and you take everything as fact, sorry pal I do resent being called a bigot or sectarian. Nothing much I can do about what he says other than respond which I have done. But if playing the sectarian card or the bigot card is what he enjoys good luck to him.
217

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18/01/2009 22:17:25
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218

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 22:18:21
Tim

Read 267
219

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 22:18:42
#273

Do you also agree that Rearrangerz fanz ripping the Rearrangerz Football Club apart with their "We Deserve Better" campaign is in the best interests of Rearrangerz?
220

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:19:45
290

BE thanks for the steer but Ribbonman is no Celtic fan and probably not a catholic either. If he was christian he would not judge other Christians. This leads me to believing he's actually a bear in disguise.

But he's hardly worth discussing, not only is he a fraud but he's a fraud with nothing to say, in otherwords he's another nonentity trying to look big.

He's best ignored, like most minor irritations - ignore them and they go away.
221

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18/01/2009 22:22:05
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222

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 22:22:51
Well Tim, he's thrown you down a challenge in #293.

So test him.
223

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:23:30
301

I already did and he never answered.
224

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 22:24:48
Ribbonman

When did your father pass away, and how old were you at the time?
225

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 22:26:01
#276 BS

He was asked his opinion of my posts at 209 and 241 and refused.
Yet you make no comment on that.

Love-fest or love-nest between yeez...its still nae excuse fur no answering yer boss.
Is it.
226

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 22:26:59
dv

Religion is not sectarianism.

Tim and I are reasonably friendly, within the boundaries of our rivalry these days, but I reckon that Ribbonman is on the level.

It would be instructive to settle this.
227

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18/01/2009 22:27:59
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228

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 22:29:19
299

Funny reading you're posts in the past,I thought you would have an opinion on my previous posts, knowing that you have said you resent sectarian and bigoted comments but I guess that 4-2 loss is still front and centre in your thoughts.

Rangers to go top of the league next week.
229

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:31:23
303

Stewart,

I have dug you up a few times on religious issues.

1. You stated falsely that Celtic had practicising catholic players in the masonic lodge.

2. You used the term "excommunicate" in a derogatory way when advising one Celtic fan to excommunicate another. The excommunication process in catholicism is very serious matter not to be ridiculed.

I take back what I said if it inferred you were/are a bigot. I don't believe you are. But you do have a few sly digs at catholicism maybe to you they are just in jest, but it shows a lack of respect and ignorance of the Catholic faith and it is distasteful at times.

You should think before you type.
230

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18/01/2009 22:32:19
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231

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 22:33:42
dv

Whether I'm "naive" or not is open to debate.

However, I have seen Ribbonman on here many times over the months, having some (occasionally low) digs at RFC, so I'm satisfied about his status as a Celtic supporter.

I'm also something of a student of posting "style", and while I'm certainly far from infallible, I see many resemblances to the old "Hunky Dorey", who I'm fairly certain was an RC.
232

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:34:42
307

well if he is on the level why did he not answer my earlier question about the mass? He conveniently ignored it and started rambling about Traynor's mother's birthplace - whatever that has to do with the price of bread???
233

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 22:34:52
307 Bemused

pundits right, time to be cautious and lets try to keep it to the level of a football debate. I owe the posters an apology for going off track, and responding the way I have.

Idee you especially, if I was out of line my apologies.
234

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:36:56
315

The old Hunky Dorey was a bitter ex catholic turned communist. But he also held strong IRA views yet criticised Celtic, John Reid and Gordon. These contradictions led me to believe he was anything but a Celtic fan but was merely a no-mark trying to get attention.
235

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 22:37:20
#303 dvincent

Bemused Exile could hide in a fox`s tail whilst riding two horses at the one time,and still attempting to start a fight in an empty house(Ibrox in 2 months).

BE fore getting back on one of his untrustworthy steads and hightailing himself right out of town before the action starts.

What I am saying is that BE is your original horses narse.

Isn`t he.
236

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 22:41:09
Ribbonman

"1963" was the exact answer I was looking for, as it relates to a post once written by Hunky Dorey, although I did think that you were younger than 14 at the time. But that is doubtlessly my mistake.

"Hunky Dorey" once posted about his memory of being at his dad's funeral, and his determined efforts, as a boy, to show how grown up he was by not crying. The context of the post is irrelevant, but I am satisfied that Hunky Dorey was certainly a Catholic who supported Celtic.

So, without taking sides or wishing to upset or contradict Tim, I believe Ribbonman.
237

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:41:13
304 BE

Why not ask him about the Sash his Father wore?
238

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18/01/2009 22:42:17
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239

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:43:41
323

Surprise surprise...seems like a nice wee wind up BE.

I now know BE and Ribbonman/Hunk Dorey are in fact one and the same person.

Nice wee game you've invented BE. logging in twice with different IDs.
240

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 22:45:27
312 Tim

Celtic have had RC'S players in the masonic lodge.

That is not religious statement. In you're opinion because they joined the lodge they were no longer practicing RC's, on you're point I cant argue that fact because I dont know. I suppose you pulled me up for my statement based on semantics.

On you're second point I did use that word to Celtic poster a while ago in a friendly exchange of banter on a very good thread. And you also know that once you had objected to the use of the word, I did apologise.

As far as you're faith that is you're business, and I do not poke digs at any one's faith, my daughter and 3 grandsons are all RC's I have no reason to slag anyone beliefs.
241

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18/01/2009 22:46:11
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242

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 22:46:15
Tim

Criticised A) Celtic, B) John Reid and C) Gordon?

You mean like A) Patrick

B) Bosco

and C) JR

I think that it's okay to be a Celtic fan and still do those things!
243

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:46:40
325

I wasn't trying to wind him up, just stating his sly digs at catholicism are offensive.

326 Ribbonman/Bemused Exile - took you a while to google that didn't it? You've been rumbled, but nice try btw.

244

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:47:34
328

Name ONE?
245

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:48:44
330

BE give it up mate, you've been rumbled. I was right all along - way back over a year ago.
246

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 22:49:01
Tim

Your paranoia has now come full circle.

For what it's worth, I certainly couldn't begin to answer any questions on Mass, or catholicism in a wider sense.

It ain't me, babe. But it's not the first time that you've made that mistake.
247

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:50:45
328

Stewart you made up a lie about RC Celtic players being in the OL. You admitted you never knew any.

If you want to re-visit the lie, go ahead Name just ONE?
248

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 22:50:55
333 Tim

its a secret
249

ideenearlyfixe,

18/01/2009 22:51:15
#318

BE is well known for deliberately starting arguements on these forums when there was absolutely no need.

Quite often it could be with someone with whom he had not been conversing with.
Thats how sly he is.
He spots what he thinks is a chink and just like a coward goes for it.

I`ve witnessed him do that on several occassions down through the years.

I feel that you have just spotted, for yourself, his capabilities.

Do not BE fooled.
250

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18/01/2009 22:52:56
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251

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:53:00
335

BE most of your posts are football related. Most of your posts are about you or Rangers. You very very seldom post several times to prove another poster right - esp a Celtic poster.

You can say what you want but you are one and the same and I suppose it's a wee game you play to amuse yourself. Tonight you were a tad obvious. Nice try though.
252

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:53:56
340

Which one? LOL
253

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 22:55:13
336 Tim

I have never mentioned the OL. I know nothing about that order.
254

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:56:12
337

Stewart - knew you couldn't name ONE.

I never enjoyed showing you up yet again as a liar and devious anti-catholic mason, but you stitched yourself up again.

255

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:57:10
345

Apologies I meant Masonic Lodge.

256

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:58:02
344

It's BE in disguise Vincent. Don't entertain him.
257

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 22:58:53
345

Yet another lie. You know NOTHING about the Orange Order? Can you say that honestly?
258

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18/01/2009 22:59:06
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259

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 22:59:50
347 Tim

Why am I anti-catholic, get you're head out of the sand. If you think there has never been a CFC rc member of the craft you're daft.

FYI, the Masonic Lodge is not sectarian, numpty.
260

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 23:00:41
Back in your cage, Idee.

I actually like Tim. We had a serious problem a year ago, for which I willingly accept my share of the blame, and I've made a genuine effort to be on friendly terms with him since then. Although, to be honest, for the main part, it hasn't needed effort, because, fundamentally, he's a decent poster.

I take no side in tonight's argument. I merely express the view that Ribbonman is genuine. That is not to endorse anything that he says, merely to express the view that he is as real as anybody else on here.

Unfortunately, Tim wants to take our "relationship" a few steps back by suggesting that I'm posting as someone else, which seems a fairly easy if obvious way to attempt to discredit someone who is actually standing up to him. And of course you can always rely on those who thrive on conflict and negativity, such as Idee, to back him up under such circumstances.

Still, tomorrow's a new day.
261

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:01:59
352

Name one?
262

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18/01/2009 23:02:42
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263

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 23:05:48
350 Tim

I do not know anything about the OL. No matter what I say because I support RFC you will beleive what you want to. Is it that hard to believe that we are not all members of the OL.
264

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:06:14
354

Vince, how stupid is BE/Ribbonman he says "go on ask me anything about today's mass, I ask you for the fourth time"

I asked him a question almost 100 posts ago - it took him a full 45 minutes to answer...yep 45 minutes to answer an easy basic question that could be answered in seconds by any real practicising catholic.

Sad isn't he?
265

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18/01/2009 23:06:15
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266

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 23:07:53
355

Can you not admit it is possible for a CFC rc player to join a non sectarian organisation?
267

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:08:32
358

Stewart I never siad you were a member of the OL.

I just don't believe you know NOTHING about it.

Are you seriously saying you don't know why it started? What it stands for? Who it's icon is? What day they celebrate? The most famous battle connected to it?

Are you seriously saying you don't know these things?

268

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 23:11:25
363 Tim

Sorry,

yes I have heard of those things. I had thought you were questioning me on the workings of that order.
269

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:11:32
361

It is impossible for a practising RC to join the masons and remain true to the faith.

Physically it is possible.

But the possibility is not the question. The question is name me ONE practising RC Celtic player past or present who joined the masons?

270

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18/01/2009 23:12:04
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271

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:12:31
366 - Stewart

I really don't feel good about proving you a liar time and again. Will you just stop telling lies.

272

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:14:13
366 - Stewart

Why would I question you on the workings of the OL?

273

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:15:50
369

Vince he is BE's alter-ego. The nasty irrational side of BE.

Let him prattle on. He's only making a fool of himself - yet again.
274

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 23:17:00
367

"Physically it is possible"

Thank you, but I will not mention names, but you can search and see which ones have been members.

You're greatest ever manager was, and his aim was to make good men better. You dont think he had any influence and advice for his players.

275

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:17:23
Vincent you may not be a catholic but take a look at BE/RM's posts - do they strike you as a remotely catholic person?
276

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18/01/2009 23:17:42
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277

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:18:43
375

Not just our greatest ever manager but Scotland's.

Also he wasn't an RC never mind a practicising RC.

Name ONE? Or retract that post/remark.
278

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:19:48
Pundit after today's performance would you sell Mark Brown?
279

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 23:21:48
Tim

I'm not a Catholic, so why would my posts look "remotely catholic"? It's just my luck (good or bad) to be here when you and HD renew your enmity.

But you made the mistake before (and I think that you realise that it was a mistake) of accusing Hunky Dorey and me of being the same poster.

Don't make it twice. It's our ability to learn from our mistakes that set us apart.
280

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18/01/2009 23:22:12
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281

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:22:17
Funny how BE is nowehere to be seen while his alter ego Ribbonman is posting with fury...nice try BE but one word. ..

RUMBLED.
282

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:23:27
382

Aye right BE nice one.
283

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 23:24:19
Tim read my post again take you're head out you narse.

Celtic/all players in those days made very little money. Jock Stein would have given advice and mentor players and what they could do to enhance their standard of living during and after their playing days. All sorts of contacts in those days helped players.
284

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18/01/2009 23:26:14
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285

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:27:15
BE you defended him too stoutly and when you did the question bit...it was all too obvious.

Then you really fell on your own sword BE when you made the rantings of RM...resemble anything remotely christian never mind catholic?

You went too far with the digs at Celtic too. No Celtic fan would give it that.

Nice try BE, must have amused you.

45 minutes to google my question too...dead giveaway.

286

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 23:28:22
Tim

Did you know that there is lodge in the Vatican rumoured to be made of high ranking cardinals?
287

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 23:29:54
389 dv

I never said the word recruting, and never would.
288

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:32:08
387 - Stewart

You'll just not admit you made that up will you?

Look you can't name ONE practicising RC Celtic player who joined the masons. That's no big deal. I doubt anyone can. But you made it up and now you are going into the mind of Jock Stein to try and justify it. Unbelievable!!!!

I worked (and still work) for and with many masons, none of them gave me advice or asked me to join to improve my quality of life. Only once was I asked to join it and I refused politely.


289

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 23:33:39
393 dv

The point being, if it is true, and I suspect you have an opinion, it would then blow away the practicing rc bit. But you're right not the place for this.
290

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:34:20
392

I have heard the rumours and also heard counter rumours.

Do you believe their is a homosexual ring in the royal family? Where manservants are subjected to vile abuse or they will lose their jobs?

That's another rumour, but I tend not to believe that one.
291

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 23:35:24
Tim

Give it up. We haven't exchanged a cross word for months. Why would I start an argument with you now? The football even went my way this weekend, so I'm in a happy place.

Yes, of course you could use the argument that I'm nowhere to be seen while Ribbonman posts furiously as evidence of us being the same poster. If I wasn't here when he was, but then turned up when he left, you could suggest that as "evidence". Conversely, if we were both here at the same time, you could use that as evidence.

I'm not him, mate. Wasn't him in his HD days, and I'm still not him now.

I reckon you and dv might be the same poster though ;)
292

Daillyman,

18/01/2009 23:35:28
Tim

You are are a liar. The Masons do not ask people to join.
293

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:35:47
I doubt it's Ninny he's too thick and would get all muddled up with double IDs.
294

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:37:02
401

Well a mason I worked with asked me "if I'd be interested in joining the craft?"

I took that as an invitation. What would you call it?
295

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:38:07
400 aye whatever BE
296

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18/01/2009 23:42:00
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297

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:43:13
Stewart

Is it possible that a Mason could ask an indidual to join the masons?

Just tell me is it possible?
298

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 23:44:14
dv

Strangely, that exact same thing happened over a year ago when Tim was accusing me of being Hunky Dorey. The two of us posted at the EXACT same time.

The trouble is, once an accusation like that is laid against you, it's a virtual impossibilty to disprove it, and the more you argue your case, the more guilty you can end up looking.

You're an intelligent guy. You can make up your own mind on whether Ribbonman and me are the same poster, although if you want to go back over the last six months of OF threads (a laborious task that I don't recommend), you will find several posts from Ribbonman that will demonstrate beyond any doubt his total disdain for RFC.

I'll just leave it at that.
299

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:45:26
407

BE I'd chuck it now, it's getting rather boring also I could run this latest wind up into the gutter if I wanted to and I've only read the first three lines.

Give it up BE. Joke's over.
300

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:46:58
412 - nor a catholic
301

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:48:42
right enough of this nonsense, sleep needed - up at 5 tomorrow - meetings in the city.

nite all

BE no hard feeling but amuse yourself in otherways if you want to retain credibility.
302

Marion Morrison,

18/01/2009 23:50:09
ciao vincent and God Bless
303

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 23:51:16
thepundit

I never noticed that one

I guess if I was mega-quick I might have been able to pull that one off...
304

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 23:52:46
I think I know who's sacrificed a little credibility tonight, Tim, but as you rightly say, no hard feelings.

Next weekend might just belong to Celtic...
305

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18/01/2009 23:53:16
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306

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 23:54:12
Ribbonman

You got me into trouble when you were Hunky Dorey, and you're now doing it as Ribbonman!

What did I ever do to you? ;)
307

BEMUSED EXILE,

18/01/2009 23:55:28
Damn, that was another close one at 420/421

That one would have been just a little more difficult!
308

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19/01/2009 00:00:35
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Daillyman,

19/01/2009 00:07:23
Well lads its been entertaining, later
310

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19/01/2009 00:17:30
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311

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/01/2009 00:17:51
thepundit

Sorry for the delay. Went out to walk my dog, believe it or not.

I don't actually understand the need to disguise yourself as another poster on here. After all, your name is only a virtual identity in any case, so you'r already disguised.

Tim takes his footie more seriously than I do, and takes defeat harder, so there is always the possibility of argument when it hasn't gone Celtic's way.

I'm personally happy to say everything I have to say as BE.
312

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/01/2009 00:18:55
dv

I wouldn't be careless enough to make us both disappear together, believe me.
313

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/01/2009 00:20:27
Goodnight Ribbonman.

Please visit again sometime, and be a little harder on Rangers next time!
314

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/01/2009 00:27:45
thepundit

No comment. Tim has already fired the opening salvo of a new war between us tonight, but I have no intention nor desire of going back down that road. Whatever he claims to be is fine by me.

PS Sounds like young Brown really helped us out today. That Murray Park education is seldom wasted.
315

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/01/2009 00:40:41
It's all water under the bridge lads.

I noticed on the BBC site yesterday that Man Utd were already reportedly keeping tabs on Fleck.

Maybe if we can bring him along for a couple of seasons we can zero our debt in one hit!
316

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/01/2009 00:47:23
So, who are you really then, dv?
317

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/01/2009 00:49:55
Fair enough. What I meant was that I've only noticed you on here relatively recently, so are you new to the threads or did you used to be someone else?
318

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/01/2009 00:54:02
As you have witnessed tonight, there is a climate of suspicion contained within these threads, but you seem pretty switched on, which will doubtlessly stand you in good stead.

Although you did seem, at least briefly, to buy into Tim's theory that I was Ribbonman earlier, which is a little worrying :)
319

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/01/2009 00:59:21
dv

I don't know the reality of that one. His writing style is remarkably reminiscent of Hunky Dorey, who I can assure you was very much a Celtic fan.

The whole RC issue I will leave behind!

Tim and HD had previous, and I suspect his negative position regarding Celtic was at least partly designed at creating an area of conflict with Tim, in order to better accommodate an argument.

Even as "Ribbonman" he has said some very disparaging things about Rangers, and in particular their supporters.
320

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/01/2009 01:04:38
dv

Neither of us knows. I reckon that it is the post of a Celtic supporter, but one for whom creating a fight with Tim was more important than speaking up for his team.

I doubt if that post reflects his true feelings regarding the current state of CFC.
321

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/01/2009 01:12:14
dv

Yep. thepundit gives a very good working example of suspicion in that post. Once it is introduced into a thread, it can spread like wildfire. Unfortunately, it's part and parcel of life on here.

Regarding #460, we'll agree to disagree. I understand your point, but I have my own strong reasons for believing that he was genuine, no matter how unlikely that may seem.

Anyway, off to bed now, so adios amigos.

 

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