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Netherlands 3 - 0 Scotland: Scots outclassed in Amsterdam

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Published Date: 29 March 2009
Huntelaar 30; van Persie 45; Kuyt 78pen
WELL, what were you expecting? Miracles don't often happen in football. Rarely do they happen twice. Scotland had its fill of the divine on that famous night in Paris, so that's your lot as far as the fantasy goes. This was reality writ large. Two goals down at the break, the only supernatural thing that happened at the Amsterdam Arena was that the Netherlands didn't ratchet up many more.

They had all the possession to double that number at the very least. Had they the drive and the ruthlessness to go with it they could have handed Scotland a ferocious beating, instead of a humiliation. That's what this was. For the entire second half the Dutch messed with the Scots as a cat toys with a mouse. Eventually, they grabbed a third, almost without trying, through a penalty when Christophe Berra brought down Klaas-Jan Huntelaar in the 77th minute.

For all their talent, the Netherlands didn't need to be very good to win at a canter. For their all the creativity in their attack they didn't need to be all that clever to get their goals. They came from two headers following two bits of sleepy defending from the visitors, Huntelaar punishing them first and then Robin van Persie doing likewise just before the interval, and a then a third via a clumsy challenge. Kuyt stuck it away from the spot.

Before the penalty, Scotland had the ball in the Dutch net but Gary Caldwell's header was ruled out, for reasons not obvious to the naked eye. Would it have given Scotland a springboard back into the game? It might have, but only to those who believe the moon is made of cheese.

Missing nine squad players and upwards of three regular starters, this was always going to be about damage limitation. Berra played 34 minutes of international football in readiness for this. Ross McCormack had eight minutes to his credit before being selected, somewhat surprisingly. Kenny Miller was Scotland's great hope upfront. Miller, whose only goals in recent memory have come against a team in mortal danger of relegation from the SPL and a side just about holding their own in the Third Division.

Ah, Kenny. The striker who can't strike, the goalscorer who can't score. How many chances were Scotland going to get in this game? One, maybe. Two if they were lucky. They got one after 11 promising minutes and it fell to Mr Indecisive of Ibrox. Lord, why did it have to be him?

There was something surreal in the moment. A ball played up the right flank by Darren Fletcher and suddenly Miller was away, in space, free as a bird. He had the defenders trailing and the goalkeeper advancing.

He took a touch. Fair enough. He took another. No problem. He took another and another and after 15 minutes (possibly longer) he prepared to fire, by which time Joris Mathijsen had recovered his ground and was in position to block.

Miller hung his head, perhaps wondering if he'd been here before sometime. He had, of course. The San Siro a few years back. An early chance blown in similar circumstances on a night that ended 2-0 to Italy. Groundhog day, Kenny. Groundhog day in many senses.

Barring Miller's all too predictable and all too wearying miss, the rest of the opening 25 minutes was good for Scotland. They were organised in their 4-1-4-1 formation. They were crunching into tackles, they were cutting out crosses and winning corners. Nothing much was happening for the Dutch. They were getting on the ball but they weren't getting much joy.

Nigel de Jong was booked for a foul on Barry Ferguson, Arjen Robben should have been booked for a ridiculous dive in a tackle from Scott Brown. All was okay, all was calm. And then the warning lights started to flicker.

Robben, for some unknown reason, was left to patrol the left flank unmarked. There he was, all on his lonesome and causing bother every time he got it. Any chance somebody might pick him up? Seemingly not. Robben could have scored in the 29th minute, Caldwell and Allan McGregor cutting him off together, but things were getting a little unsettling back there for Scotland. Caldwell and Berra were beginning to look exactly what they are; strangers to each other.

On the half-hour, the first Dutch breakthrough, and it was easy, painfully easy. Mark van Bommel got possession on the right side of midfield and no Scot came to hassle him. Not one. The Bayern Munich player had time to look up and see what was happening in the Scotland six yard box. Answer: plenty, and most of it was coloured orange. He curled in a beauty, the kind of delivery that makes defenders sweat. If there were any defenders, that is. There weren't any making their presence felt in Huntelaar's vicinity, that's for sure. Caldwell was close to the scene but he had two men to mark and ended up not marking either of them. Huntelaar had the simplest job of cushioning a header past a rigid McGregor's left hand and into the net.

Huntelaar is not in the business of missing chances of that nature and neither is Van Persie. With half-time approaching and the Scots needing to regather themselves, they got suckered for a second time. Robben took a corner and the only man to react to it was the Arsenal striker. He made a dash to get on the end of it and, ruinously, was allowed go on his way, nipping between Fletcher and Graham Alexander and heading home from an unmissably close range.

The rest was a stroll, played at the pace of the Netherlands' choosing. Kuyt, Robben and Robben again had shots on goal, but were kept out. Scotland struck but it was disallowed and then, straight after, the third arrived, Kuyt sending McGregor the wrong way from the spot.

Positives for Scotland? Alan Hutton came on and didn't collapse in a heap. The Dutch didn't score six. And, er, that's your lot.

Roll on Iceland on Wednesday night. Unlike this, that'll be a proper contest.



KEY MOMENTS

7 mins: Klaas Jan Huntelaar has the first shot at goal but his 18-yard strike is deflected harmlessly into the arms of Allan McGregor.

12 mins: Arjen Robben's low cross is blocked by Gary Caldwell as Robin van Persie tries to meet the ball first time. Kenny Miller then beats the offside trap to race clear onto Darren Fletcher's ball but shows a lack of conviction, allowing Holland to regroup and crowd him out.

17 mins: Robben bursts onto Dirk Kuyt's chip forward and leaves Christophe Berra flat on his back but blazes a shot over.

18 mins: Nigel de Jong is booked for a crude tackle from behind on Barry Ferguson.

27 mins: Van Persie's teasing cross is narrowly missed by Huntelaar.

29 mins: Some magnificent jinking wing play from Robben is finally thwarted by a sprawling save from McGregor.

30 mins: Gregory van der Wiel's cross is nodded into the net by the unmarked Huntelaar, who escapes marker Graham Alexander all too easily.

45+2 mins: Van Persie runs from deep and meets Robben's inswinging corner completely unopposed to nod home.

51 mins: Dirk Kuyt's slightly mis-hit shot from Robben's low cross deflects off Alexander and narrowly wide of the post.

54 mins: Scott Brown almost bundles his way past Andre Ooijer into the box but the Dutch defence recovers.

55 mins: Miller gets his head on the end of Gary Teale's cross but is under too much pressure to direct it properly.

60 mins: Robben plays a one-two with Huntelaar before curling a 20-yard shot which McGregor does well to save.

69 mins: Van der Wiel's cross is flicked on by Huntelaar to Robben, whose mis-hit finish is cleared by Caldwell.

74 mins: Caldwell powers a header into the net from Ross McCormack's corner but the goal is chalked off for no obvious reason.

77 mins: Berra's clumsy challenge on Huntelaar hands Holland a penalty and Kuyt steps up to send McGregor the wrong way.

80 mins: Huntelaar is booked for a shoulder charge on Alan Hutton.

SCOTLAND TEAM

ALLAN McGREGOR

Rangers

6Justified his selection ahead of Craig Gordon merely by dealing with whatever came within his orbit pretty smartly and efficiently. Faultless at the two headed goals, before being sent the wrong way by Kuyt at the penalty.

GRAHAM ALEXANDER

Burnley

4The 37-year-old's 38th cap perhaps was one too many for a willing and decent servant of the international cause. Needed to catch a bus to get up to speed with Robben's runs and completely failed to track Huntelaar at Holland's opener. Gave way to Alan Hutton in the 73rd minute.

GARY CALDWELL

Celtic

6Found the net with a magnificent header with the score at 2-0 only to be denied by the referee spotting an imagined infringement Until then, it was the, not unsually, mixed bag from the Celtic centre-back. Had a couple of injudicious moments, a couple of good blocks and a couple of interventions that were a bit of both.

CHRISTOPHE BERRA

Wolves

5A couple of important interventions in the early minutes seemed to show that the Wolves centre-back was in the mood to make the most of a full competitive debut he landed through injuries to Stephen McManus and David Weir. Ruined that early impression with a ill-judged tackle on Huntelaar to give away a penalty.

GARY NAYSMITH

Sheffield United

6Little evidenced with Holland preferring to raid down the right flank. Had zilch opportunity to provide attacking support on the overlap.

ROSS McCORMACK

Cardiff

7Didn't see much of the ball but whenever he did looked like he could make something of it. A couple of short runs and intelligent passes meant his first competitive outing for his country was far from a dead loss.

DARREN FLETCHER

Manchester United

5As is so often the way of it he seemed to find himself wholly on the periphery, with the exception of the chipped ball that sent Miller away for that accursed chance.

SCOTT BROWN

Celtic

7Scotland's most effective midfielder even in not being particularly effective. Got involved, got himself up and down the pitch as his amazing engine allows, and at least looked a player who gave the opposition some worries whenever he got on the ball or drove forward.

BARRY FERGUSON

Rangers

5No one told the Dutch midfielders that the Rangers and Scotland captain was a spent force who struggles to influence games with the 30-year-old coming in for some harsh treatment. Not as harsh as the treatment he might come in for through being totally anonymous in the second period.

GARY TEALE

Derby

5Played left in a midfield five, the winger had little opportunity to shine in his first international start in 18 months and his first involvement of any variety in the Scottish set-up for a year. Replaced by Morrison in the final minutes.

KENNY MILLER

Rangers

4The hope and despair the striker typically produces in equal measure was laid bare in the encounter's pivotal moment after 11 minutes. His pace and anticipation allowed him to meet a through ball and set up a glorious one-on-one before his hideously flawed finishing resulted in him flawing it appallingly. Hooked for Steven Fletcher with 19 minutes remaining.

SUBSTITUTES

Steven Fletcher Hibs First competitive international was hardly in the easiest circumstances.

Alan Hutton Spurs Had one good marauding run in his first senior outing in four months

James Morrison West Brom His introduction three minutes from time was surely just to give him a taster.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 29 March 2009 6:54 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Scotland's football team
 
1

RufusT-Firefly,

28/03/2009 23:25:55
Caldwell's goal was a good one.

May not have changed the game but goal difference may be vital at the end of the day.
2

Bistro Lacker,

London 29/03/2009 00:08:55
Kenny millers thought process upon approaching the Holland goal

To Do List:
1. Get milk
2. Phone mum
3. Get lottery ticket
4. Mow lawn
5. Shoot

Never mind Kenny, you were only the second worst player on the pitch. At least Mr Teale was there to take that honor. Don't know why Fletcher wasn't on from the start. Showed a bit of class up front. Hope a lesson has been learned Mr Burley.
3

RufusT-Firefly,

29/03/2009 00:13:35
"Don't know why Fletcher wasn't on from the start. Showed a bit of class up front"
====================================================

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

YEAH RIGHT

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

REMIND ME AGAIN, WHAT DID HE DO?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

4

Wee Pal Joe,

29/03/2009 00:14:09
We were beaten by a much better side. Don't think there's any point in trying to scapegoat individuals. The Iceland game is something else. We'll be at home to much weaker opposition than Holland....
5

,

29/03/2009 00:22:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

Greignotgreg,

29/03/2009 00:28:25
#4, #4, #4, you've got to be careful putting across a sensible, balanced point on this forum. No-one wants to hear about Holland taking it easy, or our defence being asleep for the goals...
7

madrab,

Edinburgh 29/03/2009 00:34:50
Bistro Lacker, how can you rate Teale and Miller worse than Ferguson?

He took one heavy challenge then hid for the rest of the match.
8

RufusT-Firefly,

29/03/2009 00:34:56
Artur Borat what a keeper.
9

madrab,

Edinburgh 29/03/2009 00:35:45
Isn't it time for Burley to go?
10

Greignotgreg,

29/03/2009 00:38:09
#12, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Ssshhhhhhhhh.
11

nSyratzcGlaw,

29/03/2009 00:39:12
Fair report Tom. I couldnt see anything wrong with our goal , but the whistle went very quick, maybe it was off camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce_p24UUQ6U

Burley, please dont play Kenny Miller again. Just dont, okay ? Its a waste of space. I'd rather you picked someone like Leigh Griffiths of Livingston , Calumn Elliot of Hearts, or lets face it , my mum.

It couldnt be any worse and they might actually have shown some interest and talent.
12

nSyratzcGlaw,

29/03/2009 00:40:11
Forgot to mention , Kenny Miller is really bad.
13

Greignotgreg,

29/03/2009 00:48:57
aye, but the worst of the 2nds
14

nSyratzcGlaw,

29/03/2009 00:52:03
well weve got to win our last three games. With the complete dogshat we had on show tonight i wouldnt bank on it. And even if we get to the world cup we arent going anywhere further.

So , all in all , a pointless national obsession.
15

r1niceboy,

Nebraska, via Polwarth 29/03/2009 02:45:28
Nacho Novo looks pretty damn good right about now. I don't think we can get 2nd even. We need results against Boreway away, and Iceland and Holland at home. We need seven to even have a chance of a playoff position, and I can't see Norway or Holland giving up that easy.
16

,

29/03/2009 03:05:31
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17

gordo999,

Vancouver, Canada 29/03/2009 03:05:31
Scotland is going nowehere with Scottish managers. At least, not with those selected by the Scottish FA. When the incumbent manager praised Bobby Robson, I knew we were in trouble.

Bertie Vogts was head and shoulders above any manager we have had since, both in international experience with a class side and as a manager of the same. Our problem was that we could not understand his methodology because we are a football nation who collectively don't understand football.

Vogts told Kenny Miller he wasn't good enough and here we are several years later using him. The only hope we have as a manager is Kenny Dalglish, who had more talent than Vogts and just as much International experience, with the exception that he never played for a class side. Too bad he wasn't at least born in Germany.

Dalglish is a proven manager and player in the English league. He wont get a shot because he tells players they are rubbish when they are rubbish. He would never suffer the incompetence displayed by Miller because Kenny specialized at putting the ball in the net. That doesn't sit well with the current Scottish FA management because they seem to think the rubbish we put on the field is good enough.
18

Just an opinion,

USA 29/03/2009 03:07:41
I'm not even crying, but sobbing big time in my beer.
O.K. anybody with any depth of football knowledge were able to work out that Scotland, with players from Burnley, Sheffield United, Wolves etc., were no match for the aristocrats of the Netherlands.
But how do we cure the root problem?
The answer might not be right here, but my grand kids are playing with electronic games instead of the 'Tanner Ba,' and my own kids quickly lost passion for the beautiful game when the Beatles etc. became their dream.
We had Bemner, Lorimer, Gray, Narey,- the list of the last forty years goes on, so let us face the facts and admit things are not what they used to be and Burley has as lousy hand as any National Boss has been dealt with.
I know I will get a lot of flak for running down our National Team, but let us face facts and admit that Scotlands finest no longer cut the mustard.
19

crepes84,

29/03/2009 05:02:52
My first reaction at the second goal was, where is the keeper? Try and view the goal from an unbiased perspective and the keeper was AWOL! A header from inside the 6 yard box unchallenged by any Scot! However, a goalkeeping performance that bore no comparison to the comedy show in Belfast.
20

The Kids Are Alright,

29/03/2009 06:24:31
Pitch conditions were to blame
21

The Kids Are Alright,

29/03/2009 06:29:40
A poor referee and a smooth surface. Nothing in favour of Scotland.
22

Pilrig,

Livingston 29/03/2009 07:25:53
Perfectly good goal disallowed.
1st goal - Alexander standing there dreaming.
2nd goal Alexander attacked the cross and lost
3rd goal Berra gave away possession.
Kenny Miller missed one on one chance - what's new ?
23

wayne bijlyeerheid,

29/03/2009 08:10:01
#4 & #13 say it all.
The anti-Rangers obsessives can take the day off to wipe the spittle off their monitors.
24

Ewan Randall,

29/03/2009 08:32:04
Isn’t Scottish football run by a unionist cabal?


25

Phil C,

29/03/2009 08:35:21
#31 See they Gers fans- they're myopic!

Nobody's having a go a the wonderful Rangers. Miller and Ferguson were bad & McGregor was ok but not inspiring. They weren't the only ones not up to the mark though. The rest were perfectly average, apart from maybe Brown and McCormack. What did everyone expect though?

I think we used up all our luck in those games against France and even the slimmest of chances we had of a result could never materialise when the ref behaved as he did with our 'goal'. It's downright unfair and he should be punished unless there is a plausible explanation. It might have changed nothing but the truth is, we'll never know.

The only clear thing is that Miller and Ferguson should NOT be playing at this level.
26

Ewan Randall,

29/03/2009 08:45:29
Didn’t Scotland once play football?

Didn’t Scotland once play a style called the Scottish style?

Isn’t it an on going joke now that to confuse a Scottish team first put the ball into the air?

Is it not true that as a so called football nation we play a really good game of tiddlywinks?
27

John H,

edinburgh 29/03/2009 09:36:39
If ever a team needed an inspiring captain Scotland does. What have we got, the bold Barry. How he ever was tagged with the bold beggars belief but to be fair to him on this occasion the whole team was a spineless shambles and it should no indeed must be the end of the road for many of these consistent failures.
DISGRACEFUL.
28

Jim P,

29/03/2009 09:44:03
Why does Barry Ferguson never sing the National Anthem at the start? As usual he jist stood there looking like a scared rabbit.

29

Calum Crubag,

29/03/2009 09:58:12
Time for Burley to go. He aint got a clue.

Alexander and Miller should've been hooked at half-time.

MacGregor wasn't really fault for the goals - the defence was abysmal. Gordon probably would've done better though. MacGregor looks too vacant.

#35 - we need an inspiring manager first. GB was great at Hearts. He's an embarrassment for the national side.
30

Calum Crubag,

29/03/2009 09:59:52
#30 - spot on. Our initial good play was undone by Alexander. What a dodo. Ref was cac too.
31

,

29/03/2009 10:06:13
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32

jdships,

Edinburgh 29/03/2009 10:11:21
31 wayne bijlyeerheid

Come'on take off the "bias specs" and think about what you ,presumeably. watched last evening.
Miller and Ferguson - now not of a standard to play at this level. Teale and Alexander never have been of a standard to play at this level.
To be fair to Burley he did lose a number of "key" players for this match
33

Calum Crubag,

29/03/2009 10:15:03
#40 - Miller and Ferguson aint even doing it for Rangers in a poor SPL.

As to Burley - players out or not, his management of scotland is dire. Even the win in Iceland was lucky and the display was abysmal.
34

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

29/03/2009 10:18:33
Barry is not captain material. If he can't even bring himself to sing the friggin anthem at the start, what's the point?
35

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

29/03/2009 10:20:13
'Great performance from McGregor.'

he lost three goals!
36

,

29/03/2009 10:25:26
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37

James Connolly,

Dublinp 29/03/2009 10:27:26
Did'nt see the Scotland/Holland game but to be honest I'm not exactly shocked at the scoreline with the gulf in class between the players. Iceland game is the big one.

For the tims out there who follow Ireland we dropped 2 crucial points. Played really badly and the back 4 were very guilty of poor distribution by just launching the ball into the air all the time.
Richard Dunne biggest culprit.
Trap has made us better organised at back but no creativity from midfield.
38

James Connolly,

29/03/2009 10:29:58
I know I'm not exactly what you would call a neutral when it comes to Barry Ferguson but is it not fair to say he has been over rated for years and now even Rangers people are now starting to admit his many limitations.
39

,

29/03/2009 10:31:51
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40

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

29/03/2009 10:33:06
I worry Barry will do a Davie Weir, and he'll still be expecting to step into the Scotland side in 2019.
41

,

29/03/2009 10:40:09
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42

archie pellagow,

stonedyke 29/03/2009 10:45:14
#23-agree with you on that one,vogts should have been given more time,by now we might have had something to show for it,in the meantime we continue to be overtaken by one-time football minnows,right now there's not much point in going to south africa,there's just not enough self-confidence in the team,last night's display was too defensive,in a game like that where your likely to lose anyway you have to at least try to control the game by keeping possession and go forward.we missed the last euro champs. in georgia and not because of the final game vs italy,last night was pretty much a repeat of the georgia match.we were group leaders for long enough and should have gone into that game with swollen cheasts but as usual we had our nappies on,if nothing changes soon then it won't be long before we stuggle against teams like cyprus,luxemburg etc.now that really is sad.
43

James Connolly,

29/03/2009 10:46:14
50 talk o

Good points.

Can I ask do you nothing better than Miller for CF?

I say that as a Celtic fan who once sang his praises with regards his work rate. His taking of chances ratio is very poor.
44

Scimitar1,

29/03/2009 11:01:36
There was only one way to play the Dutch ,hard and physical. Burley allowed them to play their passing game.

Played 4 , lost 3, won 1 in a group notable for its mediocrity.

An embarrassing display, they were rated FIFA 15th a year ago, what are they now - deteriorating badly. They should have sacked the management after the first defeat.
45

JayJay,

Right here 29/03/2009 11:16:56
Isn't there something depressing about the way Scotland play, no matter the manager. This dour, passion-lite Largs mafia inspired blandness is just standard SFA fare and you could usefully employ a clone hybrid of Stein/Shankley and Clough and still end up with the same lethargic non-event.
Two down, and playing one up, we put on a range of substitutes and swap our one man up front with a new number 9 who isn't really a main striker.
I have to give credit to Walter Smith (and yes, I am a Celtic fan) who, despite some dire backs to the wall fare, at least seemed to engender a bit of a raw meat attitude among his players. This lot appeared to be there to pick up a souvenir Dutch shirt and show all the passion of a suicidal donkey.
Burley has been hugely unconvincing from the start and surely a defeat on Wednesday will see him take the long walk. He should take a few of these cretinous blazers with him.
46

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 29/03/2009 11:19:24
#50 "Vast majority of posters to caught up in their own wee world of OF point scoring to recognise that Scotland played OK."

Right on both counts. We had a makeshift side of Championship journeymen, the walking wounded and pensioners out against a team ranked 3rd in the world that could afford to leave a £25m player on the bench, and we gave a pretty good account of ourselves.

But how must Darren Fletcher have felt putting Miller through with a fantastic ball, imagining what Berbatov or Tevez or Rooney would have done with it, and watching pages fall off the calendar before Miller tried to shoot? He lacks confidence so badly it's a joke, and at the moment I have to agree that most of our mums would be a better pick, never mind almost any SPL striker. We could also do with Gordon back in goal - you don't need to be all that fit to be a keeper, and while McGregor was left hideously exposed for the goals, Gordon would have at least made an attempt to stop them instead of just shrugging.

Caldwell's perfectly good disallowed goal is beyond explanation as far as I can see, and I think we'd have given the gifted but psychologically-fragile Dutch a tough last 20 minutes if it had stood, but there you go.

We're still in pole position for 2nd place, and we just need to avoid any more slips if we're to gather enough points to make the playoffs. I just hope at the end of qualification it doesn't turn out to be that Iwelumo miss that costs us.
47

,

29/03/2009 11:20:58
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48

Harpy,

29/03/2009 11:23:40
Gary Teale is simply the worst player to ever pull on a Scotland shirt. He surrendered possesion every time he had the ball..every time. He managed this in a variety of ways to be fair to him ranging from his favourite trick of just tipping over it to knocking it 20 yards in front of him against a full back who was clearly quicker to passisng conssistantly to an orange shirt.

Should never be near the squad let alone team.

49

Monty_1,

DXB 29/03/2009 11:26:29
Burley is a total waste of space and should be shown the door as soon as possible - but hey it aint going to happen because the SFA cant afford it. The players are shocking and didnt deserve anything better than the result they got.

Thing is the Scottish game from top to bottom is pathetic. Something radical has to be done and done as soon as possible. The sooner they go to 2 leagues with teams playing each other twice a season, the better it will be. Force all these small teams to amalgamate and make them collectively bigger. Examples - Fife. Dunfermline, Cowdenbeath, East Fife and Raith Rovers or Dundee and Dundee UTD...as one team they'd have far better attendances..more through the gates = more revenue..more revenue = more money to spend on training and better players...better training and better players = team being more competitive(in theory + admittedly a simple one at that). This competition will provide Scotland with better players in the long run.

The die hards wont like the idea but


50

,

29/03/2009 11:35:04
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51

,

29/03/2009 11:37:48
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52

,

29/03/2009 11:40:12
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53

archie pellagow,

stonedyke 29/03/2009 11:40:41
#58dork'o'the toun,you say b.v.was a complete clown and the dutch mediocre? sorry mate but you are unbelievably plain stupid FULL STOP
54

,

29/03/2009 11:44:14
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55

tatties n, neeps,

29/03/2009 11:55:07
I see England won again.
56

radge dug,

29/03/2009 12:04:31
#50 - Scotland WERE good in patches. But the defence was criminal. Alexander should never play for us again. Macgregor may only have had some fault for the 2nd goal but he's just too thick to be a commanding goalie. Miller gives his all for Scotland but a striker that can't score for club or country aint international class.

Burley should have replaced Alexander and Miller at half-time. Hutton looked good when he came on. Burley seems to have no clue on how to remedy things once we go down a goal or two.

Anything less than a convincing win - an not a single goal scrape by - against Icleand and GB should walk.
57

radge dug,

29/03/2009 12:06:53
#56 - aye, 'loyal' Walter turned his back on us but GB still doesn't have a clue. He did well at Hearts but canny hack it at this level.
58

Shape to Shoot,

29/03/2009 12:17:51
I was feeling pretty negative about the game last night and just dismissed Scotland as a really boll0x team not worthy of qualification.

BUT....after a night's sleep and reading a few reviews, I don't think overall it was as bad as that.
The first half hour or so, we pretty much matched...there was certainly very little between the teams. They got the second goal just on the stroke of HT and that sort of thing can Knock the stuffing out of any team.

Even so, we kept them at bay and with 15 minutes to go, we pulled one back, a goal which for the life of me I cannot understand why it was chopped off...I notice that it was a French referee who reportedly has come in for some severe criticism lately in France for poor decision making.

There was b ugger all wrong with the goal to be quite honest, and f. knows why he disallowed it.
By rights , that should have been 2v1 and we'll never know how things might have unfolded.
The dutch would have been sweating, that's for sure, and Scotland would have grown in confidence.

Quite honestly, I don't think we got a fair crack of the whip in Amsterdam and I'm not talking about any massage parlours....I think we were robbed of an opportunity to take something out of the game, and I think Burley's rage is not without some justification.
59

GeorgeCowieOrWalterKidd?,

29/03/2009 12:19:34
Drop Ferguson - he was anonymous.

Midfield of Morrison, Teale, Brown and Fletcher, and Fletcher and McCormack up front will do me. Berra should keep his place and get Gordon back in goal. McGregor was posted missing for the second goal.
60

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

29/03/2009 12:22:42
The Scotsman newspaper and many others in the media, and many ordinary supporters were predicting before this game that we didn't stand a chance. When so many were throwing in the towel beforehand, it's not surprising that we got beaten. And it is a bit rich for any of these people to now criticize Scotland.
For the record I was quite positive about the game beforehand and I question this idea that there was somehow some inevitability of Holland beating us. You can identify a few key moments when if things had just been a bit different, the whole match could have had a different outcome: Kenny Miller's miss, Gary Caldwell's disallowed goal, the shocking defending for the second goal just before half time.
We have to believe that in the next game against Holland, there will be vital moments, at which points we have to keep our concentration, or take our chances-or just hope for a rub of the green, and if so we can get the result we need.
61

busbyfh,

29/03/2009 12:42:45
# 69

He did well at Hearts - only because.......
Players already there....
Gordon ,Webster (at the time the best defender in Scotland),Presley,Hartley.
Brought in - A Euro Champs League winner-Jankauskis
A Euro Champions winner-Fyssas
Czech international-Bednar
Czech international-Skacel (goal machine for 5 months)
A number of other internationals
Who could NOT have managed that lot well with the element of surprise on their side.
Burley did well at Hearts but but was over-estimated.
62

Shape to Shoot,

29/03/2009 12:43:26
74

Well said....I alas was one of those who had written Scotland off before a ball was struck, but when I sat down to watch, I was very surprised to see that we could live with them, and even managed to create a fantastic scoring opportunity...that kenny miller never managed to get a shot away is incomprehensible...utterly incomprehensible.

What was hard to take that just as Scotland convinced me that we were in the match, we went 2v0 down, and I was back thinking that there was a tanking in the post.

But we held them at 2v0 and by rights should have pulled them back at 2v1....if that perfectly good goal had been allowed to stand, it stands to reason that the dutch would have started getting nervous whereas Scotland would have grown in confidence.

So on reflection, I think the scoreline flattered Holland and I agree that had one or two key moments gone our way, we could have taken something back to Scotland.
63

busbyfh,

29/03/2009 12:46:07
Teale and Alexander - How anyone thinks they are international class baffles the 5hit out of me.

Foe those that think if our "goal" had stood it would have made no differnece......I seem to recall Hearts at Ibrox a couple of weeks ago getting hammered for an hour and then scoring - The game changed dramatically thereafter.....Could it be guaranteed not to have happened last night ?
Unlikely but who knows for sure.
64

busbyfh,

29/03/2009 12:51:53
The Dutch looked far better than us last night partially due to one word - Robben.
Take him out of the equation and Holland are not that special.....every bit of quality had this man involved.

In hindsight, Burley could have told Barry ("I will sing the national anthem only if it is God Save the Queen")Ferguson to steamroller Robben at the start of the game even though it got him sent off. BF was practically invisible all night anyway.
Still, Burley knows he had to play BF - His family and the papers would have given him pelters if he hadn't.
65

Silence of the Yams,

29/03/2009 12:52:31
That idiot ref gave them the game, 2nd goal should never have stood and Caldwell scored a perfectly good goal. Scotland had no chance.
66

eric,

lothian 29/03/2009 12:59:37
So fifa said if sfa dont agree to GB team for olympics there may not be a Scotland team,mmm is that right,if london and fifa arent careful there may not be a Great Britain if they insist on this!
67

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 29/03/2009 13:20:59
Re McGregor, Who said he had a top class performance. There was no stand outs in team probably as opposition was too good. Though the question I ask about McGregor is the same as what the five live commentators said what was McGregor doing, before you ask I was watching Setanta and had BBC on computer. He may be a good shop stopper but he lacks positional nous.
68

OLD GIN,

METHIL LEVEN 29/03/2009 13:46:44
JUST TELL THE TRUTH WE ARE NO GOOD BUNCH OF WASTERS#
WHAT WILL ICELAND BEAT US BY ???
69

OLD GIN,

METHIL LEVEN 29/03/2009 13:48:05
LET THE ICE MAN COME AND SHOWS UP HOW TO PLAY.
WE ARE AS GOOD AS A CHOCOLATE FIRE GAURD/
THATS NO GOOD
70

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 29/03/2009 13:56:22
Could it be that Burley saw this as a no pointer and is keeping certain players for Wednesday. Gordon, Fletcher and Hutton in from start. I think Berra played reasonably well for his first start and will have learned from his mistakes. As for McGregor he hasn't learned much from his positioning in set plays. Please no Teale. McCormack yes. Play two up front against Iceland. I would try Iwelmo again with Fletcher. Hutton for Alexander, so who replaces Teale. Brown stays in midfield and have to decide Ferguson or Darren Fletcher
71

they aint won the cup since 1902,

29/03/2009 13:58:37
Once again an earlyer comment from thepunt1t stands out as todays idiot. "great performance from mcgregor" Wearing your ranjerz goggles last night were you punt1t ????? I thought he stood still for the first two goals and was oblivious to the surroundings, but heyho, its a game of opinions aint it. I had to laugh at Millers comment about the pitch. Is that caus he missed a sitter when we were on top of the dutch in the first 20 minutes.
72

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 29/03/2009 14:14:42
stand he wasn't at the game.
73

BEMUSED EXILE,

29/03/2009 14:35:29
A penalty and a wrongly disallowed goal put a false complexion on the contest, but Holland were doubtlessly worthy of the win.

For my money, Burley probably finished last night's match with the 11 players that should start against Iceland, with Hutton at right-back, Morrison on the flank and Fletcher and McCormack up front in a 4-4-2.

Home wins against Iceland and Macedonia, coupled with at least draws away to Norway and at home to Holland are now, IMO, the minimum requirement.

We're alive, but only just.
74

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29/03/2009 14:38:13
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75

Finnharp,

29/03/2009 14:40:23
Scotland game was always going to be tough, but the French ref made his point, cheap penalty, goal was ok and if not why did the 2nd Holland goal stand same offence with Kyte, Kuyt whatever his name is.
76

P Rayner.,

London. 29/03/2009 14:46:59
As someone who wishes for British teams success I´m very doubtful of the atmosphere of the Scottish football scene . The Anthem is an uninspiring pop song . No wonder so few players sing it . The bagpipes , normally in military setting stupendously inspiring , are totally out of place in a footballing context . The alcohol filled fans dressed in kilts are as open to ridicule as Germans would be if dressed in lederhosen . When Scottish players drawn from the powerhouses of British club football play like sparrows against an average Dutch side then a drastic re appraisal of Scottish international football is needed . George Burley is a fine coach who , given support , is capable of providing a competent side . But he surely must be bemused by all the nonesense .
77

St.George,

29/03/2009 15:17:36
Hate to say it,but it's what i predicted!
78

St.George,

29/03/2009 15:22:21
Well done England.
79

,

29/03/2009 15:29:03
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80

radge dug,

29/03/2009 15:47:15
Who's to blame?
SFA - for meekly accepting this excuse for a ref. Even his own French dinny want him.

Burley - team started well but there was no plan B. Took an age to hook Alexander and Miller.

Some of the players. Alexander looked like he'd lost his dug in a public park. Check him out at the first goal. Leisurely doesn't start to describe him. Miller - sorry, but any striker, especially an international one should at least test the goalie from there. Teale - toley more like. MacGregor - 2nd goal his fault. He's glaikit. Bring back Gordon.
81

radge dug,

29/03/2009 15:47:52
Bertie Vogts? We've got Burley Vogts now!
82

AngusB.,

sheffield 29/03/2009 15:49:48
Aye all Burleys fault despite how many players 'out'. This guy must be one of the least supported coaches going - even that lad Hadden gets more!
83

radge dug,

29/03/2009 15:50:03
#90 -like God save the Queen is inspiring?!!!! Who TF wants to 'save' the queen. At leat we've got our ane song and one with some self-pride in it.
84

,

29/03/2009 15:50:19
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radge dug,

29/03/2009 15:50:51
#97 go and watch the Iceland Scotland game we managed to win. Where's BB's excuses there?
86

,

29/03/2009 15:52:52
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87

radge dug,

29/03/2009 15:53:22
Why shouldn't Scots wear kilts on special occasions? Is there some kind of English/Presbyterian plot here against having a laugh?

I'm happy having Scots fans mostly being loved wherever they go whereas the violent xenophobic English are hated. Rule Britannia? Get back to Victorian times you braindoners!
88

radge dug,

29/03/2009 15:55:10
#102 - go and listen to the words. It talks of the days of war being put in the past 'where they belong' and of building a nation again. Sounds positive to me.

Any of the 'British' anthems seem to talk of conquest and ruling over foreigners. Not very progressive.
89

,

29/03/2009 15:55:44
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,

29/03/2009 16:00:48
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91

busbyfh,

29/03/2009 16:02:10
# 102

It is a song that yes includes the defeat of a man/country wanting to impose their tyranical nature upon their smaller neighbours-us. The song does not glory in victory but states that a historical event ocurred and should stay a part of history - not to be repeated.

Or do you know nothing of the wording ?
92

The Hiker,

Fife 29/03/2009 16:12:42
For the pedantic among us, the match was against The Netherlands, not Holland, as mentioned many times in this forum.
North and South Holland form the greater part of the Netherlands, sure, but not the whole.

Saying Holland for the Netherlands, is like saying England when you mean Britain. That get's us all pretty peeved, well ask any Dutchman who does NOT come from Holland, (ie Friesland, Limburg etc) if he objects to the terms Holland being used for the whole country.
ps the fitba was pretty poor........
93

,

29/03/2009 16:17:10
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94

BEMUSED EXILE,

29/03/2009 16:17:14
#109

The "meaningless game" argument is the real red herring here. Virtually every major league in western Europe is based on a top division of 18 or 20 teams playing once home and once away, such as England, Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Holland etc.

Despite the extra CL/UEFA places that these countries get, they still have their fair share of "meaningless" mid-table matches towards the end of the season.

There isn't a single one of them casting an envious eye towards the Scottish system, I can assure you. Our set-up is a complete nonsense. Play each other three times, some opponents twice away, the others twice home, split after an odd number of games, and end the season quite possibly not having played the same number of home and away matches, and perhaps having visited an opponent's ground three times.

Farcical, and in contravention of natural justice and fairness, IMO.
95

busbyfh,

29/03/2009 16:29:12
# 111

As expected - proof that you cannot read or listen to words and process them to a reasonable standard.
96

BEMUSED EXILE,

29/03/2009 16:33:41
#114

Rangers have already played Hamilton 5 times this season. It'll be 6 if the Accies squeeze into the top half at the split. That is NOT good from a viewing perspective!

The problems are very deep rooted and reconstruction would not solve all our problems. But an expanded league would provide extra breathing space for many teams to give an opportunity to younger players, and I'm also all in favour of quotas regarding the number of Scots in each starting line up as well as the number of under-19s.

We must encourage young and home grown talent in our top league.
97

Hobo Harry,

29/03/2009 16:39:08
107 St Scotland, Well said. Elgin is a particularly fine place as you rightly say. I may be a wee bit biased though........
98

faddy,

germany 29/03/2009 16:47:55
Almost worse than defeat are these patronising English comments about our national anthem and our supporters. Their record in big championships is almost as bad as ours,but our supporters are maybe the only ones in the world allowed to sit with the opposition. As long as we give everything I'm happy. We just don't have enough good players but it's my team.
99

,

29/03/2009 16:49:51
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100

nr3,

holland 29/03/2009 17:01:03
I read in the some comments that the 3-0 loss against a Dutch team with two madrid players and a liverpool winger on the bench was a fault of the ref... A team that hasn't lost at home in a qualifing match since 2001... Holland did play with the brakes on. Macedonia on wednesday and then they can make reservations for South Africa. The Dutch mediocre and average.... pfff. You know better than that...
101

,

29/03/2009 17:06:54
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,

29/03/2009 17:16:27
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103

P Rayner.,

London. 29/03/2009 17:16:49
St Scotland .I agree entirely with your comments. Scotland , like elsewhere within the Isles , has much to commend it . I´m glad to read you appear not to be the infantile¨ ëverybody hates the England but loves the Scots ¨ mentality . When I see a Scotland team , a team draw from the highest levels of club football , performing so poorly against a second rate Holland , despite having one of the most respected mangers , I think there needs to be new thinking . The whole thing surrounding the team , the over optimistic expectation , the pop song that inspires none but the shallow , and yes , God Save the Queen is equally uninspiring , the comical supporter dressing up in ancient clothing in the year 2009 , all these things conspire against the team when it is confronted by ultra professionalism .I am English and want England to win , but I grieve when I see a British team outplayed by the lesser .
104

P Rayner.,

London. 29/03/2009 17:30:12
92 .Talk of the Town . You make a number of assertions and assurances that you may have difficulty in evidencing . One assurance I can give you is that Flower of Scotland does not make my hairs stand neither , from their appearance , does it with a number of Scottish players . The repeating , ad nauseum , of the ¨everybody hates the English , but loves the Scots, ïs the fiction of children .
105

,

29/03/2009 17:46:06
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106

The Brain,

29/03/2009 18:08:56
Scotland are rubbish at football. They used to be good or at least acceptable in terms of qualifying for things.

What went wrong? This idea that we are all the same? Competition is a bad thing? Socialism?
107

Dekester,

Canada's west coast 29/03/2009 18:29:58
Just arrived back from Scotland his morning. I saw the lads in the kilts at Glasgow airport.

Fair play to them, I was like them as a youngster.


However their naivety is troubling..We are pathetic as a football nation, our professional game is dire. I was at a Div 2 and an SPL game when over. The lack of ability should be of great concern. European, African and S.American kids are far superior to our own. Sure we have one or two promising youngsters. So what, our best will go to the English Championship, or league 1.

Never the premiership, unless the team is managed by a Scot

Our football "masters" have been asleep at the wheel.The world had really passed us by. The same "masters" should hang their heads in shame.

I sincerely hope we never get to the finals of any major tournament. As we will embarras ourselves.

If we are to succeed we MUST restructure. Hire international youth coaches. The Dutch and Spanish have many available. Then we can develop players, not pieces of a team puzzle.

We are P**h and it hurts, however the truth often does.

All the best.


108

Alba Abú,

29/03/2009 18:32:48
#135 Brainwashed And you are rubbish at posting!
109

Roscoe P Coltrane,

Purgatory 29/03/2009 18:39:25
I realise we were pretty poor last night (after the first half an hour or so that is), but, and this is not an excuse for half a team who frankly couldn't be bothered, the referee was a complete and utter joke, and I'm surprised there hasn't been more made of it.

Why do we always seem to get eunuchs to referee important international qualifying games? If you watch that first half, several Oranje players were going in two-footed virtually the whole time, but then screaming like babies if anybody Scottish went anywhere near them. And yet all that happened was De Jong got a yellow card for possibly his fifth dangerous foul, and then nothing else despite continually hacking our players. Van Bommel was just as bad and got nothing.

And I've watched our 'goal' many, many times from several angles, and can't see anything wrong with the goal, certainly nothing more wrong than the second Netherlands goal.

He was quite obviously far too scared to give anything against the Netherlands due to the huge home crowd.

Just to reiterate, yes we were poor after that second goal (does McGregor realise you actually have to work hard and move a bit to stop goals? Defence should have done much better but he didn't even move for the first two), but is it too much to ask to get a fair go?
110

Master of conspiracies,

Out to get you 29/03/2009 19:27:12
Never mind, it could be worse. We could have had Artur Boruc in goals.
111

LyonHearts,

le teil 29/03/2009 20:01:39
some stats!

1) several key players missing - hartley etc...

2)some new faces - like Berra - blooded against the third best team in the world.

3)an unlucky miss by Miller early on.

4)a perfectly good goal disallowed.

I reckon we didnae dae too bad under the circumstances!

MON SCOTLAND
112

Norman,

29/03/2009 20:03:41
Scotland were shocking at defending. MacGregor is another Goram - wayward personal life and stays rooted to his line, definitely at fault for the second.

We weren't expected to win and played well enough to show we'll do okay.
113

LyonHearts,

le teil 29/03/2009 20:05:59
#136 "..We are pathetic as a football nation,"

Naebody was saying that when we beat France twice and nearly qualified in in the same group as Italy, France and Ukraine!

We had some terrible bad luck - the sort of luck the big teams get- and I reckon with a bit more experience these players could do alright! Fight, passion and tenacity are what makes a good Scots team and I think it's up to the managers, coaches and supporters to lift these lads to higher things - it can be done!

MON SCOTLAND
114

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29/03/2009 21:04:24
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115

Dekester,

Canada's west coast 29/03/2009 21:07:21
#143 I think we are..I have watched Scotland many times at Hampden. We were a fine footballing nation. I watched Jordan, Dalgleish,Souness, Gemmill etc. All big players and important parts of English Div 1 teams.

We are no longer producing international level players..sure we did well in the tough group that you mentioned..that was an anomaly. Do you really think we have any world class players ??

I noticed a headline at Glasgow airport in some paper yesterday..we have two players the envy of the world ( or something like that.) both goalkeepers. Macgregor and Gordon. DELUDED!!

Hey man. I love Scotland, and it hurts. We are s***e though.Northern Ireland, and Wales have better players than us. Who the heck do we ahve that can score just one goal, Mcfaddens wonder strike aside.

What happened..Serious question, and will it change??

All the best.
116

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29/03/2009 21:39:12
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117

Pilrig,

Livingston 29/03/2009 22:50:55
102 - and the replacement anthem is ?
118

Bleeding Heart,

29/03/2009 22:53:43
#147 - You may have a point with the "Scottish psyche".

The point was made earlier in reply to you that "the richest era for talent in Scotlands history 1962-1974...think you will find that our success was largely on the back of Scots playing at the higher English Div 1 level."

We did possess some remarkable players in that period, but mysteriously we failed to qualify for the World Cup tournaments of '62, '66, or '70.

There must be a good reason why top-class players, many of them playing for top English sides, continually failed to deliver in this period?

Did the "Scottish psyche" you describe have something to do with that?
119

Just an opinion,

USA 30/03/2009 01:13:45
Some great postings, and other than the biggest optimists agree we are pretty bad at producing the players nowadays who can perform at the highest level for the highest clubs in the game.
As I said in #24, kids no longer play with a tennis ball as the old timers did ( we were lucky to have a freakin' ball !! ) and before anybody writes I'm just one of those old guys that says it was better in my day, I'm not.
The game to-day is much faster with far more skills on display.
Scotland has just been left behind, and a win on Wednesday won't cover up the problems we have producing players as good as Van Persie,Gerrard, and others like them.
120

mon-the-hertz,

Glasgow - Southside 30/03/2009 03:09:36
St Scotland - you offer nothing to support your arguement that a larger league will help the National team! Loads of countries have small leagues of 10 or 12 (including Switzerland, Austria, Croatia, Serbia, Denmark) and have various levels of success, so it's not just a Scottish thing. The Republic Of Ireland's league is inferior to Scotlands no question and yet they are quite equal with Scotland in terms of recent international achievement.
Sure all the European powerhouses have large leagues but that's (and sorry if this seems patronising) because they tend to be bigger.
Also, what's this 20 year figure you keep flinging about? Scotland have been at 2 World Cups and 2 Euro Finals since 1989.
Prisons have better facilities than schools - is that a fact? You genuinly know this to be true do you? It's just that you sound a bit like someone who says things without evidence.
Appreciate your passion and fondness for your country though.

 

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