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Size will matter as Greens plant the seeds of garden tax



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Published Date: 20 April 2008
A TAX on big gardens is set to be piloted in Scotland as part of a deal to overhaul local government finance, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.
The Land Value Tax (LVT), under which homeowners are charged on the size and location of the land they own and not just the building, will be considered as part of a deal to replace Council Tax.

Big homes with large gardens in upmarket areas would
see their bills soar by up to three times the amount they currently pay. Areas where land values are high, such as Edinburgh, would be hit particularly hard by the new tax.

The levy has been dubbed the garden tax because those homes with large amounts of land would be among the biggest losers. However, the tax would benefit homeowners who wanted to build an extension or a conservatory because property is not liable.

The garden tax is being supported by Holyrood's two Green MSPs and independent MSP Margo MacDonald who currently hold the balance of power in the parliamentary battle over local government tax reform.

The SNP Government and the Lib Dems currently favour scrapping the Council Tax and replacing it with a new local income tax, in the teeth of Tory and Labour opposition.

But the two Greens say that they will only support local income tax if they win some concessions on their own garden tax plan. Patrick Harvie said: "I don't pretend that with two MSPs we have a mandate to impose it but I do hope that an element could be brought in over time."

SNP ministers last week said they would "engage in discussion and dialogue" with the Greens as they seek to scrap Council Tax. They remain committed to ending the tax, having made the pledge their central campaigning message in last year's election campaign.

Meanwhile, a senior Lib Dem source said that they were "entirely relaxed" about introducing some form of garden tax. Various forms of garden tax are used in 700 cities worldwide where local authorities assess the value of land and charge homeowners and businesses accordingly.

Valuers base their calculations on the assumption that the land is put to its "highest and best use". This means that owners of derelict land and homeowners with gardens which could be developed are charged accordingly.

A pilot study in Oxfordshire three years ago found that "the winners are those plots that have little or no garden and the losers are those where houses stand in large grounds and where maximum development is permitted by the planning regime".

Backers of the garden tax say it ensures that all land is used to its "best effect" and acts as a disincentive to speculators who currently buy up land with no intention of using it to build homes or businesses. They also maintain that garden tax ensures that the value of local community amenities such as good schools or transport connections are taken into account, so that people are taxed fairly for the benefit they receive.

But opponents warn that middle-class and well-off families will get stung by the plans. One assessment last year showed that the average bill for a Band H home at 2006-07 rates would rise from £2,258 to £6,582.



The full article contains 556 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

James Mackenzie,

19/04/2008 23:54:25
Picking gardens for this article is pretty arbitrary. If you had to pick one effect of land value tax it would be better to describe it as "the gap site tax", because LVT puts such a disincentive on leaving brownfield land unused.

LVT can also be banded to protect existing green spaces by setting the rate lower for them. You can even set a negative rate for green space to protect them above and beyond planning protections, so homeowners or others owning open space actually get paid to protect it.
2

druidh,

edinburgh 20/04/2008 01:13:04
"A TAX on big gardens is set to be piloted in Scotland "

Really? Is set to be piloted?

Looks more like someone has simply made a suggestion.
3

Guga II,

Rockall 20/04/2008 01:13:17
If these greenies had there way, we'd all be back living in caves.

I can see the force of applying a council type tax to unused, derelict land, but a "garden" tax is going to get a lot of people off-side. Trust the Whigs to side with the greenies on this. Still, they are of as much relevance as the greenies.
4

Lanna,

20/04/2008 01:25:39
#4 Guga,
I somehow doubt those that legislate all this would subject themselves to a cave, therefore, I wonder shouldn't you revise your sentence to include, '...we common folk would be all living in caves'
5

David reporter on another paper,

London 20/04/2008 01:35:38
ah barnes the muppet has a new idea make council tax sound good by proposing even worse ideas. the greens are completely mad, the idea that anyone would want land value tax is mad. in 2011 we might get rid of them completely. this idea should be in the manifesto. the scotsman paper re still going to be defending council tax when it is abolished after all journalists on £80,000 are going to pay more.
6

Maisie from Morningside,

Morningside 20/04/2008 02:49:12
So if it's a garden you get taxed - build a garage on it and you don't.
And the Greens support this??????
7

tomi,

20/04/2008 03:34:28
So!! the Greens want to tax "Green Space" because that is what gardens are. Plants in gardens consume CO2, and gardens support the habitat of many creatures: and there are many other resons why such open spaces should be encouraged.
That do these "Greens" want? All these gardens to be paved over or built upon?
What if I grow vegetables in my garden? It that going to be taxed too? forcing me to the grocery store to but imports? Oh! yes, very green!!
8

yockel,

20/04/2008 06:42:32
My off shore company will be happy to relieve you of ownership of your garden for a small fee. As part of this commercial tramsaction you will be required to maintain the ground to a standard acceptable to yourself and visit it regularly to check on its condition but not occupy it in conection with your use of the adjoining property as a home.
9

yockel,

20/04/2008 06:46:39
Next time you are comming in to land at Edinburgh Airport look out the window and you will note that it is the old council estates which have the most space around the properties. The upmarket houses on modern estates are crammed into tiny wee plots with narrow access roads.
10

T M,

LA, USA 20/04/2008 06:59:38
Possibly the dumbest idea I have ever heard of...
11

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 20/04/2008 07:28:40
A perfect way of destroying the remaining green spaces in the whole of the UK and finishing off any wildlife that has survived the blanket application of farm pesticides and weedkillers. This would ensure that every green space would be built on - just in time for the 10 million new houses we need for the predicted increase in the immigrant population by 2050. The Greens are doing a fine job: the Highlands and Islands will soon be a forest of lovely windmills - linked by vast spider webs of pylons and cables. Tourism will boom with Americans queueing up to gaze at the lovely turbines and watch the sunsets over Lewis through a maze of cables. We are so blessed to have these visionaries thinking ahead for us all.
12

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 20/04/2008 08:31:30
The article does NOT report Land Value Tax accurately!

AS with you-know-what, it's not size that matters but quality and what you do with it.

High amenity land will attract more tax than low amenity, but a large house and garden next to a smaller one can be equally taxed if that is the decison of the community.

Green spaces can be zero rated and protected from any development, as at the moment.

Derelict and abandoned and land-banked property will be taxed as if developed according to the local plan. This obliges owners to develop or sell on to those who will. It ends dereliction, hoarding and waste.

LVT is cheap and easy to collect Nearly a fifth of income tax is swallowed up by the bureaucracy needed to collect it!

Any questions?
13

lachlan,

20/04/2008 09:10:46
i would have thought the 'greens' would have liked big gardens.grow your own and all that.
14

Unimpressed one,

20/04/2008 09:24:53
If the greens back it, it must be sh*ite.
15

Brian Smith,

EAst lothian 20/04/2008 09:29:26
I hated the rates
I hated the poll tax.
I hate the council tax.
I dispise the idea of an arbitrary local income tax

I not sure what I like, but I find I dont hate this land tax idea. I think its the best suggestion yet.
16

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 20/04/2008 09:48:32
#15 We just have to admire the skilful and reasoned case you have forwarded. You remedial teacher must be very proud of you.
17

11+failed,

the pans 20/04/2008 09:58:36
And there was me pleased with the progress of my home grown lettuce,rhubarb and beetroot. Now the green brigade want to tax them.
18

11+failed,

the pans 20/04/2008 10:06:34
17 Rulesbutnotrulers
Only problem is that #15 got it just right. When did common sense, logic or reasoned argument register with the green brigade?
19

David55,

London 20/04/2008 11:38:02
I agree with #15. Loony fringe party with poorly thought out plans. No wonder they only have 2 MSPs. I would have thought the Greens would be all for more green space.
20

steve52,

Kinfauns 20/04/2008 12:43:51
This is just another example of how nuts the greens really are. It angers me that my taxes are paying for rubbish like this.
Ok so they want a graden tax.....that would hit some of the poorest people. Of course this wont matter as the green MSP's most likely dont have a garden. Where I come from people mostly have big gardens but live in council houses or former coalminer cottages. Big gardens were the norm when such houses were built.
Pensioners enjoy gardening so they will pay more.

I have a great new idea....let us cut back on council workers that stand around all day chatting on mobile phones. Road sweepers sweeping with one hand on the brush the other on the phone.. Or the 3 or 4 it takes to examine a hole in the ground before deciding that it requires filling in. Get rid of the high earners in the council offices and replace them with underworked MSP's at no extra cost. Lots of ways to save money.

I will be voting for the party that wants to cut all my taxes............Ok so I will have a long wait.
21

Hadrian,

Tillicoultry 20/04/2008 13:08:04
So can I assume from this article that the proposal is to charge a tax on the garden,AS WELL as the council,LIT, or whatever tax they decide on.

Very friendly to the pensioners, the low paid , and the poor.

Let us start looking at what the money collected will be spent on and if the spending is necessary, want to bet that green MSP's will be the first expenditure to be dumped !

Lemmings on parade!!!
22

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 20/04/2008 13:26:36
I would introduce LIT for the general population but properties currently in the highest bands under Council Tax and second homes would continue to be taxed under council tax.
An exemption could be built in where the occupants in the higher banded properties are being taxed for council tax through LIT would have that amount deducted from the 'High Band Council Tax'.
Those who were in normal employee status paying 40% band tax would not be doubly taxed. Those who were non-dom or living off dividends and investments would continue to pay an appropriate sum to local authority finances. The cut-off value could be properties over £500k.
23

Doh,

20/04/2008 13:47:26
A Land Value Tax is an okay idea but not as a basis for funding local government - we might as introduce a window tax.

Also I am not sure that a garden should be taxed at the same "value" as waste land, an empty office block or gap site.

Definately one for a royal commission.
24

David MacVicar,

web 20/04/2008 13:58:46
I am all for a LVT though not in this form. Scotland has a huge legacy of Provately owned land that needs pressure to change. LVT needs to go hand in hand with further land reform.

There is artifical pressure on Scotland increasing land proces where there is absolutely no need. Look up whoownsScotland.com to see the just how much is owned by a handful of land owners. LVT must hit the estate owners that effectively own all of Scotland and push the rest of us to fight over small pockets. The people of Gigh showed what can be done and I wish them much success. There is now further development on Gigh so locals can affoard to stay there.

Currently I think LIT is the best offer on the table but hope that eventually something is done to further suport fairer local taxation and real land reform.
25

Balliol II,

Dunbar 20/04/2008 14:24:24
Is this based on a misunderstanding of the basis of valuation for council tax perhaps? I thought that properties were banded according to their total value which would include gardens - however large.
It does not seem practical to try to 'value' the garden / curtilege of a house as an addition.
More needs to be known about the proposals for LIT. Then we need to find out if the Scottish government has the power to create such a tax and to collect it too. Where would a taxpayer be taxed? Where they lived, where they worked or the office from where their pay was actually paid?
At least the awful poll tax had the merit of tryig to get everyone who used local services to contribute to their cost.
26

Balliol II,

Dunbar 20/04/2008 14:26:01
Is this based on a misunderstanding of the basis of valuation for council tax perhaps? I thought that properties were banded according to their total value which would include gardens - however large.
It does not seem practical to try to 'value' the garden / curtilege of a house as an addition.
More needs to be known about the proposals for LIT. Then we need to find out if the Scottish government has the power to create such a tax and to collect it too. Where would a taxpayer be taxed? Where they lived, where they worked or the office from where their pay was actually paid?
At least the awful poll tax had the merit of trying to get everyone who used local services to contribute to their cost.
27

jkr,

Lochwinnoch Greater Glasgow 20/04/2008 15:01:33
Why not have a property tax at a rate to be fixed by each local authority? The income would be used only to finance leisure and recreational services in each council area. The level of tax would be based on the size of house at, say, £50 per room. The bigger the house the more tax paid. And no rebates! All the other services should be paid for by the Government as it makes all the policy decisions anyway. It would decide how to raise the money for this.
28

Saoghal Beag,

20/04/2008 15:22:42
28 jkr or what about a window tax? or a brick tax? brick tax could be good, old stone houses would be cheaper and modern timber kit would be all but exempt wince they are made of wood chips, tin foil and sealing wax.
29

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 20/04/2008 15:26:48
With nutters like that to actually be allowed to be decision-makers, all I can say is thank God I live in Alberta.
It's still OK if I say "God" isn't it? Probably not.
30

Western Gael,

20/04/2008 16:14:08
In the Scotsman's article, it states that "Backers of the garden tax say it ensures that all land is used to its "best effect." Who will decide what is "best effect?" As usual, the devil lurks in the details.
31

911 was an inside job,

20/04/2008 16:31:54
Greens are communist scum. They should go back to Russia or China, where their views will be appreciated. We don't want them here, because most of us recognise that CO2 'polution' is government propaganda designed to squeeze yet more money from the middle classes. Taxing people who have nice gardens proves their socialist credentials.

We need to treat these subversive greens as criminals. They're just as bad a NeoLabour and BluLabour.
32

Kevin Donnelly,

An t-Eilean Sgitheanach 20/04/2008 17:00:39
Doesn't sound very green to me. I'd have thought the aim of the Greens should be avoid the concreting over of the country to use green taxes as incentives to that end. i.e. Tax big houses, car showrooms which blast out light pollution and the like, rather than big cardens which provide a habitat for wildlife.
33

Joshua Vincent,

Philadelphia, USA 20/04/2008 17:45:48
An old script dusted off...

Calling it a "garden tax" is right out a 100 year-old playbook, invented by the gentry and the Lords(look it up: "Peoples' Budget"). When Lloyd George fought for LVT, it was called a "poor widows" tax. Here, in some poor cities of Pennsylvania, we have LVT; it's not called a "gardens tax" or some other pathetic label.

LVT is a called a tax cut for poor and working families.
LVT is called an anti-sprawl tax, because it gets decades-long abandoned lots and job sites back into use.
LVT is called an opportunity tax, because it replaces taxes on people wages, production, and their very houses. The Mayor of Harrisburg Steve Redd called LVT one of the crucial tools in bringing his city back from a fiscal and demographic grave.

But no, let's call it a "garden tax." Let's try to kill an idea with a slogan clumsily designed to produce such gibbering fear of the new, that I am embarrassed for the scribe that wrote it. His definition of LVT is factually dead wrong. The idea of LVT is to remove taxation from construction, either new or existing, in areas where development is desired, not a new tax.

Land value is not created by the individual through hard work or enterprise. Land value is created by the whole of the community and nature. No other source of getting rich calls for so little effort than landownership. I would imagine that Scotland wants jobs and housing opportunities for all, not "gardens."

Standing up for a fictional toff with his boxwoods seems a dead end, but I digress .

Let's be clear: if one does some thinking about it, LVT makes sense. High land values are in urban centres. Country "gardens" are CURRENTLY being concreted over because of lost development in places where it should be.

Where used in the US, Australia and New Zealand, middle class families particularly benefit from LVT. In the long run even the toff with his boxwood benefits, because people will stay in (and move to) areas with LVT a
34

Ron R,

Pittsburgh, Pa 20/04/2008 18:50:08
LVT is NOT a garden tax. It is a tax greens, conservatives, and liberals can agree on. The LVT actually promotes job growth and business development in a natural organic way not requiring government subsidies and tax breaks to stimulate the economy.

If implemented, energy use will go down over time because it limits sprawl. It is the most sensible tax.

It is fair because the non-productive sector of the economy (landlords) will receive less of the reward the community provides them now for doing nothing. Increases in land value are the result of the community. Roads, bridges, hospitals, police, schools, etc. all raise the value of land. The LVT gives back to those who pay for social services and costly infrastructure.

LVT is justice. Do it.
35

henrymanchester,

UK 20/04/2008 20:48:50
Watch how quickly I can get my garden sold off to a land developer and housing built on it if this becomes law!
36

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 20/04/2008 21:07:15
Not long now before someone gets the "bright" idea of a window tax, because that may be the main source of heat and light in your house if the Greens get their way.
37

Shave,

Edinburgh 20/04/2008 21:26:55
LVT? Not in my back yard!
38

bumpkin,

20/04/2008 21:40:36
At last, a land value tax, as found on the continent.
Goodbye all the lairds, with their multi thousand acre estates. This will get rid of them for good.
LVT must only be payable by the owner of the flat/ house/field. It must not be passed on to the tenants.
Al Fayed et al wont be able to avoid this one.
Top marks Greens.
39

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 20/04/2008 21:47:05
Well done Greens. Henry George would be proud of you. This will free up land for housing and promote ecomomic development. It will help solve the housing crisis and prevent speculators from buying land and sitting on it for years.

Calling this a garden tax is just mischief making by SOS. Unfortunately this has led to a lot of ill-informed comments above. Only land designated for development in the local plan will be developed. The idea that this will lead to house building in gardens or across the green belt is absurd. I think the posters and SOS know this though.
40

JayJay,

Right here 21/04/2008 10:31:10
#41
"Free up land for housing"?
I think you need to look to the planning department for the answer to that conundrum. These are jokers who appear to work in a parallel universe where time is most certainly not money, and whether a project passes an economic viability test is neither here nor there when they make their conditions.
"Speculators" indeed sit on land "for years", but only because of our archaic and absurd planning system.
And anyway, can we please start asking people in government about less tax rather than glibly accepting that there always has to be more. Recent articles about the scale of public sector pension costs - including the happy news of a senior civil servant with a £4m pot disclosed at the weekend - is one of the principle reasons we are fast approaching a point where we just hand the pay poke to the government!
41

Incandescent,

21/04/2008 17:10:51
#25 - Give it a rest - punting a site whose domain is parked is just lame.
42

Edward J.Dodson,

Cherry Hill, New Jersey (USA) 22/04/2008 17:11:12
My forefathers (well, on one side of the family, in any event) came to North America from Scotland in the 1700s in search of opportunity. And, at that time this meant the ability to claim land in the wilderness or acquire it along the coast at relatively little cost. In Scotland, a handful of landed aristocrats had already gained control over almost all of the land by decree and enclosure of the commons.

Scotland was not unique in this process, of course. The Irish case is worse yet because of absentee landlordism. We should not wonder why so many Americans have Scot or Irish blood running thru our veins.

Students of history have little difficulty uncovering the origins of landed privilege in any society. What is remarkable is the extent to which such privilege has remained entrenched as we moved from government by inherited status to social democracy. Along the path, the landed interests in Scotland and elsewhere have seen to it that the revenue raised for public goods and services (and warfare) has for the most part come from the taxation of commerce and from the earned incomes and assets people produced by their labor and investment in the production of capital goods.

Thoughtful Scots would do well to revisit the writings of some of history's great moral philosphers on the subject. While Henry George is referred to by many in a quite negative manner, I doubt that many have a first-hand familiarity with his work. He initially directed his writings not to the masses but to his contemporaries in the field of political economy, building on and improving the analyses presented by Smith, Ricardo, Mill and the French writers, such as Turgot and Quesnay. All of these writers looked at the rental value of land (i.e., of nature) as a particularly appropriate source of public revenue. They were guided, at least in part, by the moral ideal that the earth is the birthright of all persons equally, that to divide up the earth and issue permanent deeds for its control i
43

bumpkin,

22/04/2008 22:49:06
MR Dodson, did your forebears leave scotland voluntarily? where were they from?
Scots are still emigrating because they cannot get land.
44

Edward J.Dodson,

Cherry Hill, NJ (USA) 25/04/2008 03:16:22
My Scottish forebears were of the surname Ross and came to America first to farm, then became involved in shipping. What part of Scotland they came from I do not recall (although I have a brother who has researched our family history and would be able to tell me).

My earlier posting did not fully print, so I hope what did come thru was sufficiently clear.

One part that did not get posted was a suggestion to Scots committed to greater equality of opportunity to find a copy of the writings of Patrick Edward Dove, who a century before Henry George came to the very same conclusions. Also, Thomas Paine anticipated Henry Geroge in his pamphlet, 'Agrarian Justice' -- in which he declared that every owner of land owes to society a ground rent for the privilege of landownership.
45

AdamAR,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 20:53:34
This article completely misrepresents Land Value Tax.

You could just as well call it a "brown site tax" or a "car park tax" or an "empty lot tax". The point is that council tax is an incentive not to develop brown field sites in urban areas - people sit on empty lots for years, knowing they will only start paying tax when they get round to building on them.

Local Income Tax is a dreadful idea - shifting taxation from wealth onto work, and hitting the working class hardest.

Council tax is unfair as it penalises those who invest in property.

LVT gets round both of these problems, and is very successful on the continent, and in parts of the USA.

Nice work Greens.
46

AdamAR,

27/04/2008 21:05:15
And just to repeat what was said above:

"The Mayor of Harrisburg Steve Redd called LVT one of the crucial tools in bringing his city back from a fiscal and demographic grave."

LVT is successful in numerous areas worldwide. It's time to tax wealth.

 

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