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Scots ministers seek Elgin Marbles' return

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Published Date: 28 June 2009
By By Eddie Barnes Political Editor
THE Elgin Marbles should be returned to Greece and displayed at the new Acropolis Museum, the Scottish Government has declared.
Ministers say that there is a clear right for the priceless sculptures – currently housed in the British Museum in London – to be returned to their place of origin, where they were removed in 1801 by the British diplomat Lord Elgin.

The pressure f
or the move has increased in recent weeks after the opening of the Acropolis Museum in the shadow of the Parthenon. Previously, it has been claimed that there was no adequate place to house the marbles.

SNP Culture Minister Mike Russell has been a long time campaigner for the artefacts – also known as the Parthenon marbles – to be taken back to Greece.

A Scottish Government spokesperson said: "Ministers believe that Greece is perfectly capable of displaying and conserving the Parthenon Marbles appropriately, and support the view that the people of Greece have a right to receive back one of their most important cultural treasures."

The sculptures, part of a 525ft long frieze of a religious procession that adorned the top of the temple, were built at the height of Athens' glory between 447BC and 432BC in honour of the city's patron goddess, Athena.

Lord Elgin, when he was facing bankruptcy, eventually sold the marble sculptures to the British Museum where they have been displayed ever since.

The director of the new museum in Greece, Dimitris Pantermalis said yesterday that the opening of the Museum provided an opportunity to correct "an act of barbarism". He said he planned to enter "sincere negotiations with the British Museum" for the return of the pieces.





The full article contains 279 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 June 2009 9:32 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

Jerry Springer,

27/06/2009 22:48:04
What a great idea by SNP Culture Minister Mike Russell.

I presume there will be similar campaigns to return all the artefacts from the Burrell Museum in Glasgow.

For starters we can return the Warwick Vase to Tivoli.

We can then return all the Ancient Egypt Stone Sculptures to Egypt.

Then we can return the ancient Greek and Roman vases, sculptures and jewellery on display there to Greece and Italy.

How come SNP Culture Minister Mike Russell is silent about all of these things?
2

Fifi la Bonbon,

28/06/2009 00:05:52
What about returning the Lewis chessmen to Norway, or Ireland, or wherever they were taken before they ended up in Lewis?

It is literally no business of the ministers in the Scottish Executive what the British Museum does with the marble friezes, other than in their capacity as private citizens of the United Kingdom.
3

The Pict.,

Canada/Edinburgh 28/06/2009 01:15:47
As usual you two English lackies are doing your bow and scrape bit. Your English gov't has NO RIGHT to hold on to artifacts that do not belong to ENGLAND. GET IT ?
For # 1 lacky: Has Mike Russell received a request from any country to return anything?
For # 2 lacky: You are right as I said above: Your English Gov't has NO RIGHT to hold on to artifacts that do not belong to England. You don't even know where the Lewis Chessmen came form do you?
4

Fifi la Bonbon,

28/06/2009 01:22:35
Hello the pict, I'm a Scottish lackie, and proud of it, d'you hear? You, on the other hand, are a filthy racist.

The Lewis chessmen were made in Norway and were on their way to Ireland but they were stolen and hidden in Uig sands, as I understand it. I don't think they should be returned, though. Finders keepers, and all that.
5

Electric Hermit,

28/06/2009 02:54:55
1
Jerry Springer

"How come SNP Culture Minister Mike Russell is silent about all of these things?"

Perhaps because, unlike the Elgin Marbles, no-one is contesting rightful ownership of these other items.

Things appear very different if you think before bashing your gums in some knee-jerk anti-SNP rant.

6

Stan Butler,

28/06/2009 09:11:30

Every museum in the world should return every artefact in its possession to its country of origin.

And Scotland should apologise to Greece for the fact that it was a Scotsman who stole their marbles.


7

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 28/06/2009 09:46:50
#2 On the contrary. The Scottish Government has every right to express its views on any subject and will continue to do so no matter how much you whinge about it you pathetic little Unionist.
8

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 28/06/2009 09:49:16
#6 That comment says more about you than anything else.

Try to grow some self-esteem old chap.
9

Electric Hermit,

28/06/2009 09:49:51
6
Hagbard Celine

"Presumably this "news" has been met in Greece by the question "What is the SNP and who is this Mike Russell?""

Assuming they are as ignorant as yourself.
10

EdwinB,

Glasgow 28/06/2009 09:52:36
Kelvingrove actually set a good precedent when it returned the so-called 'Ghost Shirt', but it's a precedent that applies only to objects of religious or spiritual meaning.

Personally, i would quite like all old artefacts to go back where they orginated, but it's not going to happen. The Elgin Marbles are unlikely to be returned because doing so would open the door to so many claims.

As for Mike Russell, he should concentrate on what he is paid for.




11

Electric Hermit,

28/06/2009 10:12:04
11
EdwinB

"As for Mike Russell, he should concentrate on what he is paid for."

Mike Russell is Minister for Culture, External Affairs and the Constitution. His responsibilities include: Europe, external affairs, constitutional affairs, culture and the arts, architecture, built heritage, Historic Scotland, major events strategy, and Gaelic.

Clearly, the matter of the Elgin Marbles falls within his remit.
12

Eric The Archer,

Edinburgh 28/06/2009 10:35:03
Why are Scottish politicans getting involved in this? Surely this is a matter between the Greek government and the British Museum?
13

Electric Hermit,

28/06/2009 11:00:19
13
Eric The Archer

"Why are Scottish politicans getting involved in this?"

Why not? It is a matter of controversy and dispute. Ministers of the Scottish Government have as much right to express a view as anyone else.
14

Roy,

28/06/2009 11:09:24
Scotland can solve this dispute between London and Athens by providing a neutral venue for the sculptures. Send them to Elgin.
15

Stan Butler,

28/06/2009 11:11:09

It is perfectly correct for Mr Russell to be commenting on this matter.

Firstly, the marbles were removed on the instructions of Thomas Bruce, the Seventh Lord Elgin, who was a Scot.

Secondly Mr Russell is a man of towering intellect, a highly cultured aesthete whose opinions on such matters are regarded with the greatest respect in ever corner of the civilised world, and also in Elgin.

Perhaps Mr Russell should have Scotland show the rest of the world how to behave in these matters by immediately instigating a programme of repatriation of all museum artefacts currently held in Scotland. I'm sure he would have the full support of the entire population for such a policy.

Over to you, Mr Russell. The world awaits your next pronouncement.



16

Electric Hermit,

28/06/2009 11:34:08
16
Stan Butler

"...immediately instigating a programme of repatriation of all museum artefacts currently held in Scotland."

What contorted reasoning leads you to conclude that because Russell calls for the repatriation of one artefact he must necessarily insist on the repatriation of all artefacts? Not all artefacts are subject to disputed ownership. Surely simple good sense would suggest that those which aren't be treated differently from those which are.

Oh! I'm forgetting! This isn't about the artefacts or their ownership. It is about some fool's pathetic need to have a go at the Scottish Government. So there is no place for "simple good sense".

17

Observer,,

Glasgow 28/06/2009 11:57:33
Have the Greeks asked for the marbles back ? If so they should be returned, as was the case with the Ghost shirt. It is ridiculous to suppose that the return of one set of artefacts is going to lead to some kind of multi-coloured swap shop as Museums world-wide return each others artefacts, that wouldn't happen. But if a country requests that artefacts which represents its own cultural heritage should be returned after they were pillaged there isn't much of a moral case to say no.
18

Stan Butler,

28/06/2009 12:15:40
17 Electric Hermit


'It is about some fool's pathetic need to have a go at the Scottish Government.'


You're like King Lear stumbling about on the heath trying to figure out what is going on here but you've almost grasped it.

Yes, it is about political posturing. The poseur, however, is Mr Russell.


19

Electric Hermit,

28/06/2009 12:35:14
19
Stan Butler

Another sad offering which has nothing to do with the topic and everything to do with your sad compulsion to attack the Scottish Government for any reason and none.

Did I mention that you're sad?
20

Electric Hermit,

28/06/2009 12:38:26
18
Observer

"Have the Greeks asked for the marbles back ?"

Incessantly.
21

Observer,,

Glasgow 28/06/2009 13:31:17
21 Yes it was a rhetorical question. As the Greeks have instigated the debate it's rather ridiculous to blame Mike Russell for posturing for merely agreeing with them.
22

Electric Hermit,

28/06/2009 13:50:21
22
Observer

"...it's rather ridiculous to blame Mike Russell..."

Looking ridiculous doesn't seem to trouble the likes of Stan Butler. Such is the obsession with attacking the Scottish Government.

23

Number 6,

Germany 28/06/2009 15:48:29
Now that the Greeks have built a magnificent museum to display the marbles, they should be returned to Greece immediatley.

There is no grounds for Britain to hold on to them any longer. They were knowingly buying stolen goods when Elgin sold these frescos to the British Museum.
24

Eric The Archer,

Edinburgh 28/06/2009 16:45:20
# 14, Electric Hermit. I do not expect an MSP to comment on matters over which they have no jurisdiction. Expessing opinions are fine so long as they are relevant to their position. However, no doubt someone will point out to me that Mike Russell is English!
25

Electric Hermit,

28/06/2009 17:30:27
25
Eric The Archer

"However, no doubt someone will point out to me that Mike Russell is English!"

What the hell does his ethnicity have to do with anything?

26

Observer,,

Glasgow 28/06/2009 18:55:17
25 Idiotic comment. On what basis does Russell's position (which the Greeks will probably be quite glad to hear) depend upon where he was born. What were you meaning, or do you have problems remembering what you did five minutes ago ?
27

oder,

Scotland 28/06/2009 22:29:38
there is no doubt that lord Elgin saved the Marbles form destruction in the early 1800s as the Turks were using the Parthenon for target practice,however the situation has now changed and they do belong to the Greek history/culture/art they are now in a position to look after them properly, not all artifacts can be handed back simply because as another poster said they are not all in dispute, where they can be given back and the museum can be convinced these objects will be looked after they should consider it!
28

S T S,

Athens 29/06/2009 08:23:54
#27: Oder, bear in mind that Acropolis has also been a fortified complex of buildings for thousands of years and subsequently the Turks used it as a citadel for hundreds of years. You can refer to the Acropolis Siege by the Venetians in 1687, where the turkish garrison was stationed there, using the main temple for ammunition storage and the smaller temple of Athena Nike for cannon battery (this took place more than a century before Elgin's arrival to Greece). Therefore, I could never hold Lord Elgin as a savior but only as a looter or a plunderer
29

Mary V,

Littleton, CO USA 29/06/2009 19:34:15
The story goes, that my 5th great-grandfather was Thomas Bruce, 7th Earl of Elgin, and the man who stole the Parthenon Marbles from the Acropolis. From my perspective: 1. the ONLY reason the British Museum got a hold of the Marbles was that Bruce ran out of money for his greedy life style and had to sell them....otherwise they would still be in the possession of the Bruce family. 2. They were HACKED OFF the Parthenon, not gently and with deference to their historical and social value removed to save them...as a matter of fact, many of the sculptures crashed to the ground in the theft and were broken to pieces. 3. Two hundred years of holding them as kidnapped antiquities, does not give the British Museum more right to keep them that the Greeks who had them for HUNDREDS of years before they were stolen. 4. Are you listening...Lord Elgin STOLE THEM....he never asked the Greeks for permission, and the Turks who had invaded Greece did NOT give permission to take the Marbles, only to make casts of them. If there is proof that Elgin had permission, then why can't anyone produce that proof? 5. Lastly, it is the RIGHT THING TO DO....return the Marbles to their home!
30

Alexis Mantheakis,

Athens 30/06/2009 00:29:34
The last thing we Greeks intended was to cause a Scots/English rift over the Marbles question! One point people are missing is that neither the Acropolis Museum nor the Greek gov't should be dealing with the British Museum since the Museums Act of 1963 specifically forbids museums to dispose of their exhibits. The only entity which has legal power to settle the question (by new legislation)is Whitehall. Museums in Greece too have no mandate to engage in foreign policy.
31

Eric The Archer,

30/06/2009 20:43:24
26 Electric Hermit & 27 Observer. Exactly what does ethnicity have to do with this? Greek, English or Scots.

 

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