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Race attacks soar after terror strike

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Published Date: 12 August 2007
RACIST incidents across Scotland have soared following the terrorist attack on Glasgow Airport.
New figures reveal a surge in cases of violent attacks, abuse and harassment in the four weeks after the car bombing, with the worst cases including attempts to blow up an Asian shop and a mosque.

The biggest increase has been recorded in the Strathclyde region, where there were more than 250 incidents, of which more than 10% were directly linked to the airport attack on June 30.

Politicians and Muslim leaders in Scotland said the attacks showed that a minority of people were targeting Asians because they wrongly believed they are potential terrorists.

Other members of the Asian community claim that the real number of attacks is much higher, with many incidents going unreported to the police.

According to the latest statistics, the number of racially motivated attacks dealt with by Strathclyde Police rose from 201 in June to 258 in July. Of these, 31 had definite links to the airport bombing.

On average, the force was called to deal with more than nine incidents every day during July. Many of them involved name-calling or offensive graffiti, but there were also cases of physical violence, stone-throwing and verbal threats.

Lothian and Borders Police said there was an increase of 29 racist incidents on the 116 reported incidents in June, although a spokesman pointed out that the force did not differentiate between victims' nationalities or religions. Tayside Police recorded 40 racist incidents in July, of which half a dozen were directly connected to the airport attack.

Last night, Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill said racism in any form would not be tolerated. He told Scotland on Sunday: "The attack at Glasgow Airport was perpetrated by individuals and not by communities.

The Muslim community in Scotland has expressed its outrage at what was attempted in [the attack on] Glasgow."

In the worst incident, an apparent copycat attack, a newsagents in the Riddrie area of Glasgow's East End was targeted three days after the airport incident.

A stolen vehicle was driven repeatedly into the steel shutters in front of Smithycroft Newsagents. When the driver failed to break through, eyewitnesses told police, he attempted to set fire to the vehicle with matches, and eventually threw a gas canister into the wreckage, which burst into flames, causing a massive blast which almost gutted the shop.

The shop's owner, Ashfaq Ahmed, was not on the premises at the time. He is now trying to rebuild his business and spoke of his shock at the attack. Born in Pakistan, but brought up in and around Glasgow, 40-year-old Ahmed considers himself to be "100% Scottish". He said: "This is happening all over the UK. It is not just Scotland."

A Strathclyde Police source said they were investigating links between the shop incident and the airport attack.

Mohammed Tariq, who has run the Bathgate Mosque and the Sarajia Islamic Studies Centre in West Lothian for more than 20 years, is convinced the entire Asian community is being unfairly blamed for the actions of a few unconnected radicals. He said: "People have seen terrorism at Glasgow Airport and now they are looking at us and thinking we are terrorists."

Tariq has had his own brush with racist thugs in the aftermath of the terror attack, when a "petrol bomb-like" device was thrown towards the study centre in Bathgate.

The makeshift device landed in an estate agent's shop next door, but failed to detonate.

Sohaib Saeed, of the Islamic Centre of Edinburgh Trust, indicated that the real number of attacks could be considerably higher than the official figures. He said: "It may be for fear, but it may well be that they consider what they have gone through too insignificant to involve the police."

A spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland said they were aware of the rise in racially motivated crimes and promised any such incidents would be "vigorously and robustly investigated".

The full article contains 670 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 August 2007 10:16 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Terrorism in the UK
 
1

Fat Freddy"s Cat,

12/08/2007 11:57:40

No real surprise there then -

We have one of the largest religiously motivated attempts at mass murder in recent years in Scotland and theres a backlash.

The hand-wringers paint it like its our fault.

2

Fat Freddy"s Cat,

12/08/2007 11:59:05

What Kenny is forgetting is that the attack at the airport was carried out in the name of islam.

The hand wringers then portray the backlash as racist. Anti-islamic, yes... Racist, no.

3

Bien E. Bien,

12/08/2007 12:03:35

I agree in part with #2. The initial attack itself was an act of racist violence.

4

Boy Wonder,

12/08/2007 12:09:05

I am dead set against racism and believe anyone hitting out at Muslims with violence is wrong!

Having said that, catch them in the act of their racism against non-Muslims ... and they have to take what's coming for them.

Racism does work more than one way!

5

Calum Mcleod,

12/08/2007 12:30:27

Mohammed Tariq, who has run the Bathgate Mosque and the Sarajia Islamic Studies Centre in West Lothian for more than 20 years, is convinced the entire Asian community is being unfairly blamed for the actions of a few unconnected radicals. He said: "People have seen terrorism at Glasgow Airport and now they are looking at us and thinking we are terrorists."
------ remember the way that Irish people were treated in the 70s? Tourists, vehicles, accents, mail from Ireland all treated by police, public servants, departments and individuals as if there was a potential threat to safety. It's a perfectly natural reaction for peple to feel afraid and less forthcoming if they perceive a threat.
The Muslim community will have to work very hard, just as the Irish did, to allay those fears.

6

Boab,

Glasgow 12/08/2007 12:39:20

Fat Freddy's cat / Boy Wonder: Clarify your points, please. Are you saying that when a handful of Muslims commit a crime against non-Muslims, the other million or so Muslims who live here no longer deserve the protection of the law? Remind me to go and burn down Parkhead stadium in response to the Omagh bombing.

What absolute cobblers. Random bullies and vandals have no right to start punishing communities for individual acts. Besides which, you are more likely to win the lottery than be wiped out by Islamic terrorism.

7

Boab,

Glasgow 12/08/2007 12:43:15

#6 AM2: Good point. After all, a small group of rich hooligans was able to kick off another gulf war with just three hijacked planes ...

8

Fat Freddy"s Cat,

12/08/2007 12:45:59

@7

of course not but I see the usual hand-wringing attempts to paint non-muslims as to blame or at fault. Maybe in your nirvana people never 'wreak revenge' but back in the real world I'm simply stating its no surprise that so called 'racist' (not really but religiously motivated) attacks increased.

as for your second paragraph, remind me to send my congratulations to all those tube and bus 'lottery winners' in London, killed in the name of islam.

Your second para is frankly nauseating.

9

Puzzler,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 12:49:25

#5 Unfortunately that isn't going to happen. The muslim community is in a state of denial about terrorism and simply wants everyone else to shut up.

There is also a deep seated arrogance in islam about other faiths and cultures that seeks to put Islam in the right, even when it is manifestly in the wrong. Witness the Chris Donald killing. No-one but a complete racist would want to blame those events on the local Pakistani community, but the initial reaction from the so called "community leaders" was to start a whispering campagn against the boy's mother, because she is a single parent, which only stopped thanks to the swift actions of the local MP Mohammed Sarwar.

Islam is an aggressive belief system that is not willing in its present form to live at peace with any otehr way of life. This must change if there is to be peace in the world.

Muslims in Scotland revael far too many prejudiced attitudes in unguarded moments. Most know little or nothing about other faiths or the culturte of the country in which they live. To mosts binge drinking and promiscuity are teh sum total of Scottish culture. There are many honourabel exceptions to this, but as a community they are blinkered prejudiced and racist, even towards other muslims.

10

Boab,

Glasgow 12/08/2007 12:53:06

#9 In that case I'm not sure what your point is. These attacks - racist attacks, unless you're trying to split hairs by saying Islam isn't a race - were probably carried out by the white majority.

"Your second para is frankly nauseating." Because it's true? I'm certainly not living in fear.

11

Boab,

Glasgow 12/08/2007 13:00:17

#10 Puzzler: No, this is complete nonsense. The world is full of nice, liberal Muslims who just want to live in peace and get on with their lives. Many of the community in Scotland went and marched against terrorism after the Glasgow 'attack'.

Sorry to be a smug liberal and all. I just like people to, y'know, get along with each other! Off to the Kilsyth Fair now for some multi-ethnic fun.

http://www.isb.org.uk/pages/islamexplained.htm

12

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 14:07:33

Sadly there is truth on both'sides' of the argument. AM2 is correct when he says that any lawless backlash fro moronic elements amongst the majority non-Muslim population wil only give propoganda adavantage to the Islamist extremists.

Yet it is also true that large sections of the Moslem community are in denial about the numbers amongst them who harbour sympathy for the terrorists, their message and their methods. How many times do we hear a 'but' at the end of any condemnation. There can NEVER be any buts in condemnation of either terrorist actions or attacks on innocent Moslems in the community.

Boab, I'M worried by this. I find it really hard to equate the decent Moslems I know at work or meet in my day-to-day life with the polls carried out recently by Channel 4 News and the BBC (hardly the most illiberal of organisations) which show a very significant minority of Moslems either support the terrorists or empathise with them. Amongst the ordinary Moslems I know there might be individuals who support such vile acts.

To deny there is a problem for fear of being called racist will only make it worse in the long run. The Islamic minority needs and deserves the fullprotection of the law but it must also meet its responsibilities under it as British or Scottish citizens.

13

Boy Wonder,

12/08/2007 14:14:24

#7 Boab. Don't be obtuse. I clarify what I'm saying perfectly well and it's disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise!

What part of "caught in the act" didn't you get???

By the way, that applies to any and all racist action of any kind!

14

A.Mackenzie.,

USA 12/08/2007 14:38:08

Abe Lincoln, Harry Truman, Winston Churchill and Enoch Powell were all correct.

15

John McVey,

thailand 12/08/2007 14:47:43

#15 were they in a pub quiz?

16

Miss H,

12/08/2007 15:13:50

13

Draco

You say that large sections of the Muslim community in Scotland are in denial about the numbers amongst them who harbour sympathy for the terrorists, their message and their methods.

So can you tell me

a) Who in the Muslim community in Scotland harbours sympathy for the terrorists and

b) Who in the Muslom community is in denial about this.

17

Alex.,

12/08/2007 15:21:42

Islam is not a race. It is a religion. Therefore not a racist attack . Attack on the airport was not racist - it was ATTEMPTED MASS MURDER. Don't be surprised at bigger and more effective backlashes if the authorities, MSP's especially, fail to do their jobs properly to protect the peaceful public, in and out of airports, from these insane mass killers who no longer have a civilised thought in their heads.

How long will it be before a burqa conceals a bomb on a suicide bomber or someone intent on murder with an AK-47? A wanted terrorist has already escaped the country wearing his sister's burqa. How long are the politically correct apologists to be in denial?

18

,

12/08/2007 15:48:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 867934, Article id was mapped to record!
19

Stephen Gash,

Carlisle England 12/08/2007 16:03:18

Jack Straw said the English had a propensity to violence.

Yeah right Jack.

20

magazine,

twi 12/08/2007 16:12:12

Most moslems are not terrorists but most terrorists are moslems.

21

Alistair Normal Person,

India 12/08/2007 16:17:15

Has anybody noticed that the radical muslims are systematically working their way through many of the asian countries committing acts of terrorism and alienating society, be it muslim or any other religion,colour or creed, which is their ultimate goal, and of course working towards the west.
When will all the do gooders in our country with all these nothing jobs, realise that the system is not, 'wait until they kill someone before we start protecting our people'. Give our security services the power to take these people out of society before, and not after, the perpetration of any acts of terrorism.

22

Patrick O'Shaunnessy,

12/08/2007 16:25:40

The police already have extensive powers for dealing with terrorrism , and telephone-intercepts are about to be accorded admissible evidence status ( why the hummed and hawed over the that is odd to me ).

But let us not forget that we cannot trust the police not to abuse their powers. In Scotland , the only system for dealing with complaints against the police is their own internal system which is a complete joke.

If the police could be trusted with more power , then I'd be in favour , but the fact is they cannot be trusted.

23

Patrick O'Shaunnessy,

12/08/2007 16:27:47

Well , that is to say , if the police are to be given more power , the complaint system has to become independant , and be much more rigorous with severe penalties for abuses.

24

Media 1,

cape town 12/08/2007 16:28:16

It is easy to undertstand why there is an increase in such attacks. NOTE: I do not condone such attacks, but I can see why they are happening.

A wise man once said; not all muslim's are terrorists, but of all the terrorists, most are muslim.

When a van driven by muslim's rams into an airport building with the sole intention of killing innocent people, its hardly surprising that the response is attacks on Muslim's. Its not right that innocent Asian people become targets, its not right at all. But its not surprising.

25

magazine,

twickenham 12/08/2007 16:35:02

Calling people racists who have concerns over Islam is part of Islam's master plan to make us feel guilty. There are white European muslims in the Balkan countries,muslims in Turkey (Turkey wants to be in the EU),muslims in north and central African countries, muslims in China and the Philipines. Islam is not a race. We now see it is a political force.

26

Soapy Souter,

Grangemooth 12/08/2007 16:42:49

Hey Fat Boab..Ye must be dreamin o aw they virgins..ye are probably one yersell...A heard they are havin a stone throwin booth at the Kilsyth Fair..for the lassie that had sex afore she wiz married...ya chump ye!

27

Alistair Normal Person,

India 12/08/2007 16:48:33

Wow!
# 24,
some statistics even if they are 6 years old! I wonder what these statistics are now after all the radical priests that we have allowed to stay here for so long ie. Cptn. Hook and his Gang teaching all the lovable people that frequent their meeting places.
Why do they come to the country of free, be it free speech, free dole money, free benefits or freedom of movement, when all that they want to do is run with the crows. We all know what is supposed to happen to those that fly with the crows!
Were these people quoted in these statistics the advance party, or the recce group, or just setting up safe havens for the radicals that have now infiltrated our free society?

28

nell from falkirk,

12/08/2007 16:51:16

Islam is not a race, nor is it a political force.
It is a religion.
The same as Christianity.

There are Muslim terrorists.
There are also Muslim murderers, racists, rapists, thugs and thieves.

There are Christian terrorists.
There are Christian murderers, racists, rapists, thugs and thieves.

To say that because some Muslims are terrorists, all Muslims are terrorists is as ridiculous as saying that because ETA or the IRA terrorists are Christians, all Christians are terrorists.

The vast majority of BOTH Muslims and Christians are honest, hard-working decent people, trying to make a living and raise their families to be decent.

Anybody who says otherwise just isn't thinking at all. And it's a great pity that some of you are trying to pretend that acts of thuggery carried out against perfectly innocent members of the Muslim community can somehow be justified.

Its like saying that because a grocer raped your sister, you're justified in attacking all grocers.

29

Soapy Souter,

12/08/2007 17:40:21

Hey Nell..aye it wid be nice if everyone got along..but a still dinny see the Scots going ti Pakistan ti blow them up because they dinny support the SNP!..Futhermore, The local grocer hus been rapin ma sister fir years....chargin hur 20p mare extra fir milk, than ASDA!

30

Pilrig.,

Livingston 12/08/2007 17:51:49

21 - Most Christians aint crooks or thugs but most of the occupants of oor jails are Christians.

31

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 17:53:18

#24 AM24

Your extrapolation is fair and the point I was making. I detect that Scotland's Muslim community has been happier to integrate than its English counterpart and I hope the percentage of disaffection may be lower. But I think that Salmond et al are being dangerously naive to assume that Scots Muslims live in a wee bubble, totally devolved from their co-religionists worldwide and uninfected by the madness so worringly hidden down south.

32

Patrick O'Shaunnessy,

12/08/2007 17:58:31

Media 1

It's not surprising that people rob banks, or that some people kill their spouses.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that it is insidious and must be stamped on.

33

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 18:08:08

#35 Patrick

Just so you know. Both ACPOS and the Police Federation in Scotland have repeatedly backed calls for an independent police complaints body. You're right, the police currently investigate themselves and recognise this looks bloody awful. But no-one else will take it on. The police know how much time and effort is wasted looking into complaints. The vast majority are shown to be unsubstantiated and this is police time that could be better used in the fight against crime. You're pushing against an open door on this one, so get onto youre MSP to change it. You'll get no opposition from the polis.

34

John Knox,

Glasgow 12/08/2007 18:10:17

#30

ETA & the repulsive IRA were/are not Christians, they may have tried to make out they were devout RC's, to gain support, but they are definately not Christians.

They are quite simply murdering scumbags.

35

tom, HR6,

12/08/2007 18:37:13

I loathe religion in any form. It is Mickey Mouse, fairy-tale, rubbish and I always find myself astonished by how so many often otherwise very clever and intelligent people embrace religious ideas of any nonsensical persuasion.

However, by degrees of measurement I find the Muslim rubbish to be top of the pile of rubbish. Their religion allegedly makes them superior to all other religions and away we go - stoning women to death, murdering people who decide to change religion etc etc. And, whether they actually believe it or not, be a suicide bomber, go to paradise and get 72 virgins!! What a load of stupid nonsense. No, this debate is not rascist - it's about people with stupid, medieval ideas when we should really be looking to a society of tolerance.

36

Tricia,

12/08/2007 18:38:35

Somehow when some of the posters above mention Christian terrorists they conveniently omit the UVF and their ilk. Don't forget the Scottish Ranger fans who have beaten and killed people dressed in Celtic colors. BOTH "Christian" sides have shown terrorist actions.

37

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 18:47:40

#42 Tricia

I'm as agnostic as the best of them but I know a good person when I see them. The likes of Archbishops John Sentamu and Desmond Tutu are fine representatives of Christianity. Are you seriously comparing them, and the hundreds of thousands of genuine practising Christians like them, with the murdering morons of the UVF and the IRA?

38

Tricia,

12/08/2007 19:09:18

#43- Draco, when I put quotations around the word Christian I was showing that I did not consider them real Christians.

39

David Burness,

Larkhall 12/08/2007 19:13:54

Those guys who attacked the airport were idiots. Its a surprise anyone so dim can get a medical degree. If they wanted to do real harm they could have walked in with suitcases and did the job right. This whole thing is a bogieman non issue. Theres about 7 billion people in the world and most of them just want to get on with their lives and earn a living. Christians, Buddhists, Muslims et al. Its kind of to be expected that our own crazy hothead wing will smash up a few grocers, but people buy into that mass hysteria. Chill out. Go for a curry guys. Its all a hype - justifies ID cards maybe?

40

Maxwell GG,

Ex. Pat - USA 12/08/2007 19:20:53

What do you expect? Time for the leftist idealists to wake up to what we have seen in the US and the rest of the world. Like it or not, the extreme Islam crowd are responsible for ALL of the major terror activities. ALL of them. The ones that 'target' all innocent people (pls. don't compare this to the odd Afghan family that dies in a friendly fire incident for God's sake).
The Islamic people who are not extreme and want peace, and want racial profiling to go away, need to step up, recognize their own people are causing the problems, organize an initiative which educates their own people in the UK and Europe that not all Islamists are trouble, and work on a solution.
Complaining about racial responses is a waste of time. I for one am sick of the Islamic people and media who do not speak up against these barbaric attacks. Yes, when I am at the airport and Arabs are around, I look at them closely and watch their every move. If they don't like it, tough. I don't trust them. No one does.

Go home to the country you left for a better life if you don't like it, or step up and help solve the problem.

Hardly any Islamic groupos have ever responded against the 9/11 attacks in the US. Even the few prominent US blacks who have converted to Islam that are well know over here say nothing.

And they wonder why the majority dislike the Arab culture so much.

For all you Liberals who don't agree. what have you done to help the problem?
In the next 10 years, unless the Arabs take this problem on themselves and turn the tide (of the stupid Koran saying any non-Muslim should be killed), we will see a war that kills millions. It is so obvious.

What the heck happened to the UK I left 20 years ago? I don't even recognize it anymore. It is sad.

41

nell from falkirk,

12/08/2007 19:37:27

#40 AM2 You know, for a while I thought you were just perhaps a bit deluded, but having read your latest offerings, I now think you are something much worse.

It's people like you who are, with deliberate malice, and for what reason I don't begin to understand, going around stirring up hatred; you twist reality to suit your own sick agenda.

I have to assume you have never, ever actually worked with or interacted socially with, or even spoken to, any real Muslims, because that's the only way you could possibly sustain this fiction, this bizarre delusion, that the few - the very few - terrorists have anything to do with the average decent normal Muslim.

The terrorists claim to be Muslim - the IRA claim to be Christian, Hitler claimed to be Christian. Religion is just the excuse - like #39 says, the IRA were no more Christians than Al Quaeda are Muslims. But the words are used very successfully to deceive.

You and others like you are cut from the same cloth as those who fire up the deluded crazies who plant the bombs; you are the other side of the same coin.
There is no difference between you, except the words in the excuses you use for hatred and bigotry.

It's just a pity that there are always idiots out there who will listen to and be fooled by your wicked tongues.
Away and log on to the links Methalions posted; you'll find "your type of people" there.

42

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 19:42:52

#49 Nell

I'll include myself in your little rant. You're obviously as stupid as you re insulting if you can't follow a perfectly rational discussion.

43

Harry (the other one),

Montreal 12/08/2007 19:48:12

Of course, the whole argument that the attack on Glasgow airport was carried out by Muslim extremists is flawed.

What type of suicide bomber, well versed in the teachings of Islam, and with an intimate knowledge of the target area could possibly have hoped to find 72 virgins in Glasgow?

Heck, everywhere except Milngavie is safe, I reckon

44

Astarte,

Giffnock 12/08/2007 19:49:16

There are incidents we hear of and others that we don't! Scotland and Glasgow in particular is and always has been a hot bed for racism, prejudice and religous bigotory. Visitors to our shores have often encountered the blues and the greens who ask are you a pape or a proddy. The recent attack on Glasgow airport just provided another excuse to spew out venom and hate. Most Scots have failed to come to grips with their own identity.

45

nell from falkirk,

12/08/2007 19:59:05

#50 Funny how a post becomes a "rant" when you don't agree with the poster.

And if anybody is "insulting", it's AM2 and others like him who insult thousands, millions, of decent honest Muslims by branding them "terrorists".
People who try to stir up hatred of an entire religion and all its adherents because of the monsters who use it to hide behind to cause disaffection and hatred.

There is nothing rational in such people; don't let them fool you. The same posters are on this board and others like them, day in and day out, promulgating hatred. They WANT to see strife and race hatred, and the sad bit is that you're letting them succeed.

46

fergiewergie,

Chch, NZ 12/08/2007 20:08:38

john Knox, #39, if they believe in Jesus Christ and see themselves as Christians then they are Christians.

#30 I suppose Christian Terrorism in history could be the wiping out of Central American natives if they did not conform to the same religious views of the Spanish. or in North America where American Indians were systematically had their culture killed by the settlers. And then we have in the recent civil war in the old Yugoslavia, attrocities being committed by both sides in the name of religion.

47

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 20:08:59

#55 Nell

You're insinuating that he, and since I happen to agree with him, me, have views that are the same as those held by the KKK. That's pretty insulting.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, bit I'm presuming you're white and of a Christian heritage. You're obviously one of those people who are so infuriatingly patronising that you equate ANY criticism of anyone not white or Christian with racism. It's pretty cheap and intellectually lazy.

48

,

12/08/2007 20:16:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
49

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 20:24:15

#58 thewitness

And you, Sir, are a 24 carat zoomer

50

Singe Maheid,

Blackpool 12/08/2007 20:24:45

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television.

"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said.

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their cultur

51

Singe Maheid,

Blackpool 12/08/2007 20:25:24

"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia ." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."

"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"

"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .. Learn the language!"

"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."

"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."

"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.

52

Vorpawlak,

USA 12/08/2007 20:28:14

As every Muslim male is a potential terrorist and so many have elected to go on jihads, as individuals or as group members: Tues-les tous, Dieu reconnatdea les sein.

53

Singe Maheid,

Blackpool 12/08/2007 20:30:58

Australian Treasurer Peter Costello, you are a star Sir, well said, it is time we started re claiming our country, but the damage has been done, and it may be to late. A permanent move to Oz looks to be the best option.

54

jim jones,

new glagow , nova scotia 12/08/2007 20:35:02

how ironic that Glasgow is the city on one hand that has sport officials kissing the arses of Muslim nation sports officials to lobby for the commonwealth games. While the GAY Agenda Lobby primarily from western Europe wants to hold Nigeria up to a standard for gay right that no Muslim nations and very few in the commonwealth want.

And Glasgow wants to host the friendly games ROTFLMAO

55

Renate Baramy,

Israel 12/08/2007 20:39:51

The last comment about the Mossad being behind terrorism is really the last straw. I wonder where you grew up? But in the long run it doesn't supriese me as it usually comes down to blaming the Jew. How many muslims exist in this world millions and how many jews live in the world altogether. To suggest that the jewish religion calls of killing the infidel is rediculous, but even muslims quote the Koran that it is OK to kill infidels unless they want to convert. Even religious leaders tell people to kill in mosques, so what do you expect from ordiany people
t

56

,

12/08/2007 20:43:46
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Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 20:49:25

#67 thewitness

Are we seriously expected to believe that the July 7th bombers were agents of Mossad? You really believe that?

58

,

12/08/2007 21:00:37
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private.dick,

yes.. 12/08/2007 21:02:22

#58

Well done thewitness, I myself have a geranium in a large plant pot...also my neighbor has a 'NEW' mountain bike. Where we live there are no mountains???

Boney M were not jewish ah?

sadly facts we know what we know what we don't know we don't know and knowing we don't means we know what we know and so we do know what we don't know.....see its so Easy my friend...

Must go the nurse is coming back and i havent had my medication yet today...you understand??

AM2..The new Muslim "PROPHET" 'peace and blessing be upon him'

60

,

12/08/2007 21:06:40
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Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 21:07:04

#70

OK. So the bombers:

A. Knew who the man who runs the airport security
company was?
B. Knew he was an agent of Mossad?
C. Deliberately blew up a bus outside the company
HQ?

62

big boaby biggins,

earth 12/08/2007 21:25:13

newsflash. glasgow utd 2 hamilton accies 0

63

,

12/08/2007 21:32:46
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64

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:33:28

http://www.al-islam.org/islamicgovernment/

In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful

All Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds

And may His blessings be upon the best of His creation,

Muhammad and His Descendants.

The subject of the governance of the jurist (vilayat-i faqih[27]) provides us with the opportunity to discuss certain related matters and questions. The governance of the faqih is a subject that in itself elicits immediate assent and has little need of demonstration, for anyone who has some general awareness of the beliefs and ordinances of Islam will unhesitatingly give his assent to the principle of the governance of the faqih as soon as he encounters it; he will recognize it as necessary and self-evident. If little attention is paid to this principle today, so that it has come to require demonstration, it is because of the social circumstances prevailing among the Muslims in general, and the teaching institution in particular. These circumstances, in turn, have certain historical roots to which I will now briefly refer.

From the very beginning, the historical movement of Islam has had to contend with the Jews, for it was they who first established anti-Islamic propaganda and engaged in various stratagems, and as you can see, this activity continues down to the present. Later they were joined by other groups, who were in certain respects, more satanic than they. These new groups began their imperialist penetration of the Muslim countries about three hundred years ago,[28] and they regarded it as necessary to work for the extirpation of Islam in order to attain their ultimate goals. It was not their aim to alienate the people from Islam in order to promote Christianity among them, for the imperialists really have no religious belief, Christian or Islamic. Rather, throughout this long historical period, and going back to t

65

Smokey0541,

Lakewood, Colorado U.S.A. 12/08/2007 21:33:56

YEAH, LET'S JUST TALK TO THEM AND EVERYTHING WILL BE ALL RIGHT!!

I think this just might apply to Scotland as well as the U.S. OR any freedom loving Country


Can a good Muslim be a good American?

Interesting questions for the Muslim Community to discuss & for
Research on our part also.


Can a good Muslim be a good American? I forwarded that question
To a Friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years . The following
Is His Reply:


Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the
Moon God of Arabia. Religiously - no. Because no other religion is
Accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)


Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five
Pillars Of Islam and the Quran (Koran). Geographically - no. Because his
Allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a
Day.


Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to
Make Friends with Christians or Jews. Politically - no. Because he
Must Submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation
Of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.


Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women
And Beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 ).


Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American
Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he
Believes The Bible to be corrupt.


Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do
Not Allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam
Cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or
autocratic.


Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," The
Christians God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred
To as Heavenly father, nor is he ev

66

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:34:00

The preachers they planted in the religious teaching institution, the agents they employed in the universities, government educational institutions, and publishing houses, and the orientalists who work in the service of the imperialistic states—all these people have pooled their energies in an effort to distort the principles of Islam. As a result, many persons, particularly the educated, have formed misguided and incorrect notions of Islam.

Islam is the religion of militant individuals who are committed to truth and justice. It is the religion of those who desire freedom and independence. It is the school of those who struggle against imperialism. But the servants of imperialism have presented Islam in a totally different light. They have created in men’s minds a false notion of Islam. The defective version of Islam, which they have presented in the religious teaching institution, is intended to deprive Islam of its vital, revolutionary aspect and to prevent Muslims from arousing themselves in order to gain their freedom, fulfill the ordinances of Islam, and create a government that will assure their happiness and allow them to live, lives worthy of human beings.

For example, the servants of imperialism declared that Islam is not a comprehensive religion providing for every aspect of human life and has no laws or ordinances pertaining to society. It has no particular form of government. Islam concerns itself only with rules of ritual purity after menstruation and parturition. It may have a few ethical principles, but it certainly has nothing to say about human life in general and the ordering of society.

67

,

12/08/2007 21:34:19
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Reason:
68

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:34:26

This kind of evil propaganda has unfortunately had an effect. Quite apart from the masses, the educated class—university students and also many students at the religious teaching institutions—have failed to understand Islam correctly and have erroneous notions. Just as people may, in general, be unacquainted with a stranger, so too they are unacquainted with Islam. Islam lives among the people of this world as if it were a stranger.[30] If somebody were to present Islam as it truly is, he would find it difficult to make people believe him. In fact, the agents of imperialism in the religious teaching institutions would raise a hue and cry against him.

In order to demonstrate to some extent, the difference between Islam and what is presented as Islam, I would like to draw your attention to the difference between the Holy Qur’an and the books of hadith,[31] on the one hand, and the practical treatises of jurisprudence, on the other. The Holy Qur’an and the books of hadith, which represent the sources for the commands and ordinances of Islam, are completely different from the treatises written by the mujtahids[32] of the present age both in breadth of scope and in the effects they are capable of exerting on the life of society. The ratio of Qur’anic verses concerned with the affairs of society to those concerned with ritual worship is greater than a hundred to one. Of the approximately fifty sections[33] of the corpus of hadith containing all the ordinances of Islam, not more than three or four sections relate to matters of ritual worship and the duties of man toward his Creator and Sustainer. A few more are concerned with questions of ethics, and all the rest are concerned with social, economic, legal, and political questions—in short, the gestation of society.

You who represent the younger generation and who, God willing, will be of service to Islam in the future must strive diligently all your lives to pursue the aims I will now set

69

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:34:52

At a time when the West was a realm of darkness and obscurity—with its inhabitants living in a state of barbarism, and America still peopled by half-savaged redskins—and the two vast empires of Iran and Byzantium were under the rule of tyranny, class privilege, and discrimination, and the powerful dominated all without any trace of law or popular government, God, Exalted and Almighty, by means of the Most Noble Messenger (s), sent laws that astound people with their magnitude. He instituted laws and practices for all human affairs and laid injunctions for man extending from even before the embryo is formed until after he is placed in the tomb. In just the same way that there are laws setting forth the duties of worship for man, so too there are laws, practices, and norms for the affairs of society and government. Islamic law is a progressive, evolving, and comprehensive system. All the voluminous books that have been compiled from the earliest times on different areas of law, such as judicial procedure, social transactions, penal law,[34] retribution,[35] international relations, regulations pertaining to peace and war, private and public law—taken together, these contain a mere sample of the laws and injunctions of Islam. There is not a single topic in human life for which Islam has not provided instructions and established a norm.

In order to make the Muslims, especially the intellectuals, and the younger generation, deviate from the path of Islam, foreign agents have constantly insinuated that Islam has nothing to offer, that Islam consists of a few ordinances concerning menstruation and parturition, and that this is the proper field of study for the akhunds.[36]

There is something of truth here, for it is fitting that those akhunds who have no intention of expounding the theories, injunctions and worldview of Islam and who spend most of their time on precisely such matters, forgetting all the other topics of Islamic law, be attacked and ac

70

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:35:24

Subject Index

Search

Announcements

Feedback

Support this Site

Section 1

Introduction

In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful

All Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds

And may His blessings be upon the best of His creation,

Muhammad and His Descendants.

The subject of the governance of the jurist (vilayat-i faqih[27]) provides us with the opportunity to discuss certain related matters and questions. The governance of the faqih is a subject that in itself elicits immediate assent and has little need of demonstration, for anyone who has some general awareness of the beliefs and ordinances of Islam will unhesitatingly give his assent to the principle of the governance of the faqih as soon as he encounters it; he will recognize it as necessary and self-evident. If little attention is paid to this principle today, so that it has come to require demonstration, it is because of the social circumstances prevailing among the Muslims in general, and the teaching institution in particular. These circumstances, in turn, have certain historical roots to which I will now briefly refer.

From the very beginning, the historical movement of Islam has had to contend with the Jews, for it was they who first established anti-Islamic propaganda and engaged in various stratagems, and as you can see, this activity continues down to the present. Later they were joined by other groups, who were in certain respects, more satanic than they. These new groups began their imperialist penetration of the Muslim countries about three hundred years ago,[28] and they regarded it as necessary to work for the extirpation of Islam in order to attain their ultimate goals. It was not their aim to alienate the people from Islam in order to promote Christianity among them, for the imperialists really have no religious belief, Christian or Islamic. Rather, througho

71

wisdom,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 21:37:09

These attacks are not racist...it has already been stated...Islam is a religion,not a race...however,most of the Muslims in Scotland are of Pakistani origin and there is a tendency to confuse Pakistani culture with the Muslim religion....it would be in their own long term interests for immigrants to leave their culture behind and integrate into that of the society they choose to live in...as did my own ancestors when they decided to make Scotland their home.

72

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:37:34

It is the school of those who struggle against imperialism. But the servants of imperialism have presented Islam in a totally different light. They have created in men’s minds a false notion of Islam. The defective version of Islam, which they have presented in the religious teaching institution, is intended to deprive Islam of its vital, revolutionary aspect and to prevent Muslims from arousing themselves in order to gain their freedom, fulfill the ordinances of Islam, and create a government that will assure their happiness and allow them to live, lives worthy of human beings.

For example, the servants of imperialism declared that Islam is not a comprehensive religion providing for every aspect of human life and has no laws or ordinances pertaining to society. It has no particular form of government. Islam concerns itself only with rules of ritual purity after menstruation and parturition. It may have a few ethical principles, but it certainly has nothing to say about human life in general and the ordering of society.

This kind of evil propaganda has unfortunately had an effect. Quite apart from the masses, the educated class—university students and also many students at the religious teaching institutions—have failed to understand Islam correctly and have erroneous notions. Just as people may, in general, be unacquainted with a stranger, so too they are unacquainted with Islam. Islam lives among the people of this world as if it were a stranger.[30] If somebody were to present Islam as it truly is, he would find it difficult to make people believe him. In fact, the agents of imperialism in the religious teaching institutions would raise a hue and cry against him.

73

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:39:14

In order to demonstrate to some extent, the difference between Islam and what is presented as Islam, I would like to draw your attention to the difference between the Holy Qur’an and the books of hadith,[31] on the one hand, and the practical treatises of jurisprudence, on the other. The Holy Qur’an and the books of hadith, which represent the sources for the commands and ordinances of Islam, are completely different from the treatises written by the mujtahids[32] of the present age both in breadth of scope and in the effects they are capable of exerting on the life of society. The ratio of Qur’anic verses concerned with the affairs of society to those concerned with ritual worship is greater than a hundred to one. Of the approximately fifty sections[33] of the corpus of hadith containing all the ordinances of Islam, not more than three or four sections relate to matters of ritual worship and the duties of man toward his Creator and Sustainer. A few more are concerned with questions of ethics, and all the rest are concerned with social, economic, legal, and political questions—in short, the gestation of society.

You who represent the younger generation and who, God willing, will be of service to Islam in the future must strive diligently all your lives to pursue the aims I will now set forth and to impart the laws and ordinances of Islam. In whatever way you deem most beneficial, in writing or in speech, instruct the people about the problems Islam has had to contend with since its inception and about the enemies and afflictions that now threaten it. Do not allow the true nature of Islam to remain hidden, or people will imagine that Islam is like Christianity (nominal, not true Christianity), a collection of injunctions pertaining to man’s relation to God, and the mosques will be equated with the church.

74

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:39:35

At a time when the West was a realm of darkness and obscurity—with its inhabitants living in a state of barbarism, and America still peopled by half-savaged redskins—and the two vast empires of Iran and Byzantium were under the rule of tyranny, class privilege, and discrimination, and the powerful dominated all without any trace of law or popular government, God, Exalted and Almighty, by means of the Most Noble Messenger (s), sent laws that astound people with their magnitude. He instituted laws and practices for all human affairs and laid injunctions for man extending from even before the embryo is formed until after he is placed in the tomb. In just the same way that there are laws setting forth the duties of worship for man, so too there are laws, practices, and norms for the affairs of society and government. Islamic law is a progressive, evolving, and comprehensive system. All the voluminous books that have been compiled from the earliest times on different areas of law, such as judicial procedure, social transactions, penal law,[34] retribution,[35] international relations, regulations pertaining to peace and war, private and public law—taken together, these contain a mere sample of the laws and injunctions of Islam. There is not a single topic in human life for which Islam has not provided instructions and established a norm.

In order to make the Muslims, especially the intellectuals, and the younger generation, deviate from the path of Islam, foreign agents have constantly insinuated that Islam has nothing to offer, that Islam consists of a few ordinances concerning menstruation and parturition, and that this is the proper field of study for the akhunds.[36]

75

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:39:57

Subject Index

Search

Announcements

Feedback

Support this Site

Section 1

Introduction

In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful

All Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds

And may His blessings be upon the best of His creation,

Muhammad and His Descendants.

The subject of the governance of the jurist (vilayat-i faqih[27]) provides us with the opportunity to discuss certain related matters and questions. The governance of the faqih is a subject that in itself elicits immediate assent and has little need of demonstration, for anyone who has some general awareness of the beliefs and ordinances of Islam will unhesitatingly give his assent to the principle of the governance of the faqih as soon as he encounters it; he will recognize it as necessary and self-evident. If little attention is paid to this principle today, so that it has come to require demonstration, it is because of the social circumstances prevailing among the Muslims in general, and the teaching institution in particular. These circumstances, in turn, have certain historical roots to which I will now briefly refer.

From the very beginning, the historical movement of Islam has had to contend with the Jews, for it was they who first established anti-Islamic propaganda and engaged in various stratagems, and as you can see, this activity continues down to the present. Later they were joined by other groups, who were in certain respects, more satanic than they. These new groups began their imperialist penetration of the Muslim countries about three hundred years ago,[28] and they regarded it as necessary to work for the extirpation of Islam in order to attain their ultimate goals. It was not their aim to alienate the people from Islam in order to promote Christianity among them, for the imperialists really have no religious belief, Christian or Islamic. Rather, througho

76

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:40:59

What connections do all the various articles of the Constitution as well as the body of Supplementary Law[39] concerning the monarchy, the succession, and so forth, have with Islam? They are all opposed to Islam; they violate the system of government and the laws of Islam.

Islam proclaims monarchy and hereditary succession wrong and invalid. When Islam first appeared in Iran, the Byzantine Empire, Egypt, and the Yemen, the entire institution of monarchy was abolished. In the blessed letters that the Most Noble Messenger (s) wrote to the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius and the Shahanshah of Iran,[40] he called upon them to abandon the monarchical and imperial form of government, to cease compelling the servants of God to worship them with absolute obedience, and to permit men to worship God, Who has no partner and is the True Monarch. Monarchy and hereditary succession represent the same sinister, evil system of government that prompted the Doyen of the Martyrs[41] (‘a) to rise up in revolt and seek martyrdom in an effort to prevent its establishment. He revolted in repudiation of the hereditary succession of Yazid,[42] to refuse it his recognition.

Islam, then, does not recognize monarchy and hereditary succession; they have no place in Islam. If that is what is meant by the so-called deficiency of Islam, then Islam is indeed deficient. Islam has laid down no laws for the practice of usury, for banking on the basis of usury, for the consumption of alcohol, or for the cultivation of sexual vice, having radically prohibited all of these. The ruling cliques, therefore, who are the puppets of imperialism and wish to promote these vices in the Islamic world, will naturally regard Islam as defective. They must import the appropriate laws from Britain, France, Belgium, and most recently, America. The fact that Islam makes no provision for the orderly pursuit of these illicit activities, far from being a deficiency, is a sign of perfection and a

77

,

12/08/2007 21:43:10
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Reason:
78

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:43:52

f we Muslims do nothing but engage in the canonical prayer, petition God, and invoke His name, the imperialists and the oppressive governments allied with them will leave us alone. If we were to say “Let us concentrate on calling the azan[60]and saying our prayers. Let them come and rob us of everything we own—God will take care of them! There is no power or recourse except in Him, and God willing, we will be rewarded in the hereafter!”—if this were our logic, they would not disturb us.

Once during the occupation of Iraq, a certain British officer asked, “ Is the azan I hear being called now on the minaret harmful to British policy?” When he was told that it was harmless, he said: “Then let him call for prayers as much as he wants!”

If you pay no attention to the policies of the imperialists, and consider Islam to be simply the few topics you are always studying and never go beyond them, then the imperialists will leave you alone. Pray as much as you like; it is your oil they are after—why should they worry about your prayers? They are after our minerals, and want to turn our country into a market for their goods. That is the reason the puppet governments they have installed prevent us from industrializing, and instead, establish only assembly plants and industry that is dependent on the outside world.

79

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:45:03

They do not want us to be true human beings, for they are afraid of true human beings. Even if only one true human being appears, they fear him, because others will follow him and he will have an impact that can destroy the whole foundation of tyranny, imperialism, and government by puppets. So, whenever some true human being has appeared they have either killed or imprisoned and exiled him, and tried to defame him by saying: “This is a political akhund!” Now the Prophet (s) was also a political person. This evil propaganda is undertaken by the political agents of imperialism only to make you shun politics, to prevent you from intervening in the affairs of society and struggling against treacherous governments and their anti-national and anti-Islamic politics. They want to work their will as they please, with no one to bar their way.

80

private.dick,

12/08/2007 21:49:42

http://www.al-islam.org/islamicgovernment/

Imam Khomeini - a Short Biography[5]

Imam Ruhullah al-Musawi al-Khomeini was born on September 24, 1902 into a family of strong religious traditions in Khumayn, a small town some hundred kilometers to the southwest of Tehran.[6] Both his grandfather and father were religious scholars. The former, Sayyid Ahmad, was known as al-Hindi because of a period he had spent in India, where a distant branch of the family is said still to exist. The latter, Ayatullah Mustafa, was murdered by bandits only five months after the birth of Ruhullah, so that his mother and an aunt were responsible for his early upbringing. At the age of sixteen, he lost both mother and aunt in the course of a single year, and the task of supervising his education then fell to an elder brother, Sayyid Murtada (better known, in later years, as Ayatullah Pasandideh). Ayatullah Pasandideh recalls that, even in his youth, Imam Khomeini showed great piety, seriousness, and determination. It was the general consensus in Khumayn that a significant if turbulent career awaited him.[7]

81

Smokey0541,

Lakewood, Colorado U.S.A. 12/08/2007 21:57:36

#95
Your throwing mud in the game. The subject was racisim not war.


Race attacks soar after terror strike

82

Boab,

Glasgow 12/08/2007 22:00:38

Hmm fairly reasonable posts today. I get conditioned to thinking everyone's going to show up and start an anti-Muslim rant at headlines like this. Think I was overreacting in post #7 so sorry for being a bell-end, Boy Wonder / Fat Freddy's cat.

#95 thewitness: the word 'Zionist' tends to make me cringe as your next line might well be 'Jewish Conspiracy'.

#83 Smokey: This is more typical. You see Islam as essentially dangerous and anti-American. So, what's your solution? More pointless wars in the middle east? Or taking away your citizens' rights to follow whatever religion they choose? 'Night everyone.

83

wisdom,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 22:04:09

A word for those in the US and for Private Dick....The subject covered here are incidents which occurred in Scotland and,with all the best will in the world,those of you who are natives of the US simply do not understand Scottish Social norms or values enough to contribute in a constructive manner.As for Private Dick...the place for religion is in your own home,with your co religionists.It is a relationship involving the believer and which God he wishes to worship....There is not place in the Scottish legal or political system for partisan religious beliefs.....keep those in the mosque,schul,cathedral or presbytery.

84

Soapy Souter,

12/08/2007 22:05:52

Hey Nell..ye want ti get oot the hoose somtime..ye think a walk up the toon ti Woolies or Marks & Sparks is the best thing in yer life..Hey whit if they idiots had got it right!!! and blew up Glasgow airport..wid ye still be spoutin yer pish abut how innocent the islamics are? at least the IRA had an agenda, Stop tryin ti take oor country..Nobody is tryin ti colonize pakistan hen!

85

Gizzabreak,

12/08/2007 22:11:43

Any Muslim who wants to see Sharia Law enacted in this country can get out too! You're not wanted here!

86

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12/08/2007 22:13:02
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87

wisdom,

Edinburgh 12/08/2007 22:17:56

#66...Renate Baramy....of course the Israeli man in the street is not a conspirator,any more than the English or Scottish members of a Jewish congregation, or the Muslim people ,in general,however, the Mossad together with ALL secret intelligence services belongs the the dirty tricks club.

88

private.dick,

12/08/2007 22:24:05

#105

people should be made to read...all of it

89

private.dick,

12/08/2007 22:45:42

#107

excellent post, spot on you certainly know your stuff

90

private.dick,

12/08/2007 22:46:37

#108

Thanks for the complement

91

private.dick,

12/08/2007 22:47:39

#109

didn't mean it Dickwit..ha..ha

92

Smokey0541,

Lakewood, Colorado U.S.A. 12/08/2007 23:08:32

My Dear Scotts. It is not my intention to be offensive to Scotland at anytime. My post #83 & #99 was ment to shed some light on the subject of racisim. So, with that said. If any natural born Scott is offended by my post. " I APOLOGIZE "
#95 You say,, ill founded BILE. I will not apologize for stating the truth. And as for the problems in my Country within the government are not only heartbreaking. There scary as hell. We are loosing our way of life. However, There are still many of us who are doing our best to create and maintain a PUBLIC AWARENESS of these critical issues. I LOVE my Country,,,,,But I FEAR MY GOVERNMENT.

#100 You state that I see Islam as a danger to my Country???? Well,,,It wasn't Christians that flew the planes into the towers on 9-11 now was it?
You ask me what my solution was. And then gave me 2 choices, neither of which are viable. There are a hell of a lot more than that.

93

KatieDC1,

Washington, DC suburbs 12/08/2007 23:12:25

I'm at Ground Zero here. Not that far from where the events of 9/11 took place in D.C. I know people who were killed.

I have Iranian acquaintances: educated and charming. I'm pretty liberal. We have a mosque 1/2 a mile away. Ten years ago a neighbor was walking her dog at a park that adjoins the mosque and saw military exercises going on on the grounds of the mosque. She didn't report it. She went back a few days later, and a man in a house next to the mosque pointed a rifle at her and told her not to come back to the park. She didn't report it again.

Was she naive? Yes. These people are here at our pleasure. Surely the moderate Muslims should report suspicious activity at their mosques. Don't see it happening around here. We're all P.C. Again, if the moderates of the mosque don't care to report the obvious radicals in their mosques, what hope do we have of avoiding another attack? If they don't start demonstrating some responsibility for their radical element, then why are they here if they care so little about the U.S.? Our nice economy and benefits?

94

Canny Fifer,

California 12/08/2007 23:13:10

Good stuff, Nell:)

Let's get down to those 72 virgins - what are they about?! Do male Moslems take their bodies with them when they go to heaven? If they do not, what is the point?!

The other issue I have pertains to what women get in a Moslem heaven besides the guy who gets the 72 virgins & is probably exhausted...

95

sandy,

USA...land of the free, home of the brave 12/08/2007 23:35:40

#60, 61---Singe Maheid---now i know why our print news & media seldom mention Australia, they are the single largest appeasers of radical islam in the US.....i love a country that doesn't apologize for wanting to keep their sovereignty....i only wish we had ANYONE in our government with the backbone of these gentlemen, to say publicly what many Americans want to hear.... we are the land of immigrants yet today the 'new' immigrant isn't interested in assimilating...(all nationalities)

i would like a copy of that speech, if you could post a link, i would appreciate it....
thank you so much for posting it..:o)

96

sandy,

USA...land of the free, home of the brave 12/08/2007 23:51:40

#55--nell from falkirk---if you care to drop your hate filled everyones a racist, attitude & really read AM2's posts, you'll find he is not 'insulting' to anyone!!.....he, unlike you, can be rational in his comments on this subject...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbmvYdAfQRM

radical islamists in the UK.....scarey stuff...

97

NYScott,

New York 13/08/2007 00:32:44

When in comes to terrorism, the Islam Radical, has nothing but a win win situation. Many people of the Islamic faith are not terrorists. But when the one who's doing his Jihad thing knows that he will get results both ways.
He know there will be a backlash to his event. And this will futher his cause but having more hate and separation delivered.
If that creates hate against the innocent then he has won.
Don't let the ignorance of the few spoil the good of the many.
Also notice that there's no translation for Jihad in the English language! Since Christan's who truly follow the teaching of Jesus know better!

98

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13/08/2007 00:39:25
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99

Girlfriend,

Seattle, WA 13/08/2007 00:56:33

I agree with Astarte #52. Much as I find the Scots to be a benevolent race in general, the biggest flaw to be detected is their parochialism and their resistance to anyhing which they don't understand, like religion. To them everything is either black or it is white and nothing can change this narrow outlook.
The example to which Astarte alluded actually occurred while I was seeking directions from a young man on a Glasgow Street. He was obliging to my request and I thanked him and turned to leave when he asked, "Where are you from hen,are you a yank?" I informed him that I was indeed from Seattle in United States and ignored the rude conotation of "hen" when he continued by asking "are there as many Catholics in Seattle as thereare in New York?" Only in Glasgow would this occur.

100

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13/08/2007 01:24:13
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101

American,

USA 13/08/2007 01:59:44

I bet the imam that was attacked was considered a "racist" or "hate" crime, while the man who died from a street attack is just considered a crime. In other words- who determines what is a racist crime, or just a crime? Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think a crime is a crime no matter what the reason.

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Paulc37,

Virginia 13/08/2007 02:47:17

Since there are "no" NON MUSLIMS in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran etc do you think it was Al Qaeda that killed them or forced them to become Muslim. You got to be a real jackass to believe there are Moderate Muslims. They are all caught in a murderous killing cult and every Muslim is afraid of there own. They say nothing or really do nothing while the carnage rages on in Scotland and every place there are Muslims.

America is embedded in the Islamic heartland not because of WMD but because we are fighting a new "ISM" --- Islamism. Worse than Communism and Nazism as they are all over the world and many of us are working with these infiltrators who will turn on you when the screws are turned on them.

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13/08/2007 02:49:29
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Adirondack,

New York State 13/08/2007 03:18:02

I grew up in a racist society and am grateful that over the decades it is less and less racist. Some of the changes in recent times came from strict federal and state laws that countered so many instances of the racism in schools, work, society in general. It is hard to sort out what the connections are between what we knew as racism and what we now witness world-wide as religious hatred and bigotry. The matter of class, which is a strong theme in the societies of the United Kingdom, is another burden that both sides of the 'line' suffer from. The essence of all these "isms" --including sexism and ageism, seems to be a need for a sense of superiority, of one group being saved, or cultured, or of the proper genetic color/look/age/gender. I have, in fact, been a trainer in state government in 'non-violence' in solutions to conflicts, small and massive. The process was to help people face their 'isms' and how it causes them such energy to maintain any and all sense of superiority. Revenge was the ultimate waste of time, focus, indeed, leads often to self-destruction. Even if all of those hatreds are said to serve some concept of "God," under any name, it constitutes a form of derangement of a healthy mind and body, or a society. And threatens the life of the individual seeking revenge and all those injured by acts of the deranged. So I think. Having a family with people of different races, religions, political and social beliefs, I am grateful that where we live we have been able to all seek meaningful lives, work and community interaction and service. And not suffer from racism. Could some zealot change that for one or all of us, with violence, at any moment? Yes. Will any of us descend into hatred and revenge in response? Perhaps. But I would consider it the loss of morality to do so. Any political or religious beliefs that advocate killing and revenge need to be rejected. For me, it is as simple as that, as a core belief. Sure beats ha

105

Ex gourock boy,

Shrewsbury PA usa 13/08/2007 03:23:45

Aye this subject has got a lot of reaction.
I'm no racist but what religion faction is involved in a campaign of terrorism these days?
Muslim
Don't you think there is going to be a natural backlash aginst muslims and asian folk. I'm sure most are hard working law abiding citizens.
We don't know who the enemy is in this game.
Enoch Powell was no fool. Pitty we didn't heed them 30 yrs ago

106

socialmedic,

USA 13/08/2007 04:05:57

The Asians are rascist. Furthermore they are not wanted. They pretend to be poor and starving, the richest of them come in droves, rob our people of education and welfare and then throw 60 thousand BP wedding parties, build skyscapers, build nuclear arsenals all the while whining how the Asian need is greater, therefore nobody has a right to survival until all billion and a half of them are all living in the lap of luxury. Then they pretend that the hostility they bring on themselves with thier overpopulation, corruption and lies and literally moving here in our faces is really supposed to be directed at Arab terrorists. By this tactic thier IMPERIALISM is to be swept under the carpet while the West says oops and goes after the "right guys?" What a load of bunk. Instead of trying to impress people who are disgusted with them with thier quarter of a million dollar weddings, why are they not helping their own people in thier presumably starving countries? We are to starve to help them so that they can throw big parties? if anybody is going to address racism around here, then they must be fair and address ASIAN RACIST IMPERIALISM and, and that is AND NOT OR, ARAB MUSLIM TERROR RACIST IMPERIALISM. These are the idiots who breed irresponsibily and insanely like insects and animals. Once they breed and act like human beings THEN they will deserve to be treated as such. These are our lands. We have as much right to defend our peace and well being and safety, OUR HUMAN RIGHTS, and OUR RIGHT NOT TO HAVE TO TOLERATE THIER RACISM. Just because RACISM is perpetrated by people who are not from the WEST does not mean it is not racism. It is time to send the masses of racist overbreeding overpopulation back to the hell holes where they can breed to thier delight and suffer and pay the consequences. It is NOT our obligation to absorb thier idiocy or listen to idiots who call us racist if we refuse.

107

Toronto Tam,

13/08/2007 05:05:01

Paulc 37,
you said, "Since there are "no" NON MUSLIMS in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran etc. This is not correct, there are small communities of Christians and Jews in all of these countries with the exception of Saudia Arabia, unless of course you count the large number of expat workers and the thousands of American troops stationed there.

You also say "we are fighting a new "ISM" --- Islamism. Worse than Communism and Nazism" Has it never occured to you that the people of the USA are being manipulated? Some people are benefitting from the culture of fear that has permeated your society for the last 50 years. Your military industrial complex could not survive without the fear of the ever present boogey man.

108

Lewisman abroad,

Oman 13/08/2007 05:31:20

Hells bells, just been reading all the bumpf above. I may have missed the boat on this discussion but here in Oman and in UAE we never see anything of the hatred which is being hotly discussed in this forum. In fact i like the way they go about it here, show us respect and we'll show you respect.... simple!
Glasgow was an atrocious act and was wildly condemned here in Oman, all the Omanies that work with me even felt it necessary to come up to me to offer condolences for whatever reason. There are many forms of Islam just as there are Christians... Think N.Ireland and then think Hebrides which has a similar north-south divide and u might get the picture.
Terrorism breads fear, that is the whole point and by posting the above mentioned statements of "lets go and find ourselves a n.......!" only works straight into the hands of those that failed in the 1st place.

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The Daleks,

13/08/2007 05:47:16

#128

I've been to Oman.

The Omani's practise their own brand of Mohammedanism, which is distinct from that practised by the Sunnies and Shia's, as they never cease to tell anyone who'll listen.

110

Renate Baramy,

Israel 13/08/2007 06:13:22

God forbid #72 you should be considered antisimitic, I know some of your best friends are jews. I forget how many times I have heard this. Next you'll be telling Ben Laden is jewish too. As to #87 the first laws ever written, the 10 commandments were given to Moses. Next there was a law that a slave had to be given his freedom after 7 years. So don't tell me Mohammed gave laws that didn't exist before except killing infidels.Most of the social laws come from the old Testament. As for #114 what do women get? They get nothing as they are second class citizens in Islam.

111

Gilmartin,

Philippines 13/08/2007 07:10:29

Islam has thrived on violence and intimidation since the time of the Madman Mohammed. Anyone who says it is a religion of "peace" has not read the Koran. Some chapters in it call for the killing of Jews, Christians and "the unfaithful". Little wonder that a Dutch MP has recently compared it to Mein Kampf and is pressing for it to be banned in Holland.

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wisdom,

Edinburgh 13/08/2007 07:24:01

#120....HEN has long been an endearment used in Scotland since time began to demonstrate affection to a female.Your posting demonstrates your ignorance of things Scottish and reinforces what I have already said,that Yanks know little about Scottish society , values and traditions.

113

Kilted Hulk,

NW/USA 13/08/2007 07:37:54

Bottom line here is quite simple. If the " Asian Community" wants respect then they MUST stop preaching Hate and discontent in their Mosques and start turning in known and suspected terrorists. Until then only a simpleton will concern them selves with their plight.

114

wisdom,

Edinburgh 13/08/2007 07:52:45

The bottom line is that until we,in Scotland,have evidence which will pass the scrutiny of a jury in one of our courts no one has been proven guilty of these acts....so far it is just hearsay and news releases from the polis and the security services....

115

Virgil,

Vancouver,BC 13/08/2007 09:32:33

#121 the witness ..you portray the same characteristics to which both Astarte from Giffnock and Girlfriend from Seattle refer. Were you the man in the Glasgow Street?
#132 Wisdom (or lack thereof) Hen is not and never has been a term of endearment. In the early fifties while I was still an undergraduate living in Glasgow I recall the University Womens Club denouncing the word as derogatory and a sample of male chauvinism and once again proving that education was the key to opening the gates for the advance of women's rights. It seems that both #121 and#132 should be seeking enlightenment. #52 Astarte is dead on with her assessment and #121 cannot ask her to stay away since as far I can recal Giffnock is still in Scotland.

116

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13/08/2007 09:53:50
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Gregorf,

13/08/2007 09:56:02

24 AM2

The stats make galling reading but I am sure that they are representative. It makes you wonder how communities can miss these folk when the numbers are so high.

If bombings happen again, then I can imagine serious questions being raised and similar incidences of attacks increasing. If the communities cant bring themselves to hand them in before they kill then......................................

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13/08/2007 10:06:27
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wisdom,

Edinburgh 13/08/2007 10:49:41

#135....Don't be cheeky honey[I take it you are a woman if not the I apologise].......I and my fellow working class Scots know more about the usage of the word HEN than Glasgow University Women's Club....HEN was and is a word of endearment used by working class Scottish males when addressing their female counterparts....

120

wisdom,

Edinburgh 13/08/2007 11:03:25

When we are discussing TERRORISM...WE DON'T KNOW WHO THE ENEMY IS IN THIS GAME...#140 exGourock Boy....this leaves a lot of options...FALSE FLAG and BLACK OPS must be STRONGLY taken into consideration where terrorism is concerned.

121

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13/08/2007 11:16:47
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Anthony,

Glasgow 13/08/2007 13:26:12

I have a close relative who uses a GP surgery which falls within an area of Glasgow with lots of ethnic minorities and asylum seekers. He saw a small ringbinder whilst he was in the waiting area. Curious, he picked it up and was horrified by what he read. It was put together by one of the myriad of pro-immigration/asylum seeker groups. In it, it gave advice on how to avoid being deported. One of those peices of advice to asylum seekers facing deportation, was to claim to have been a victim of a racist attack or abuse, and to then state that they would not proceed with legal action, if they were allowed to remain.

Horrified by what sounded to me, like incitement to commit an offence, I telephoned the Home Office. They didn't want to know. So, maybe it wasn't an offence. But it could explain the sudden rise in reports of racist abuse.

123

The Fly Fifer,

Fife 13/08/2007 13:42:51

# 144 it is an offence ...............

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13/08/2007 14:13:52
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tyson,

pedantville by the sea 13/08/2007 15:10:04

#49 - Hitler had no use for Christianity. While he saw the need to politically control German churches (just like the Party sought control of all institutions) Hitler frequently stated his dislike and contempt for Christianity. Aside from his Catholic childhood, he was never associated personally with Christianity. Indeed, he expressed admiration for Islam seeing it as a more warlike (manly) alternative to the doctrines espoused by Jesus.

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MichScot,

USA 13/08/2007 15:33:14

#6

Good point, but do we ignore them?

There comes a point when we could become doormats, and that is not desirable, either.

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MichScot,

USA 13/08/2007 15:46:10

#31

YES!!!

128

Gary.,

13/08/2007 16:01:50

57. Draco Was a Wimp

I read quite a lot of postings from this poster, nell from falkirk. For your information, she is a Muslim who used to live in Turkey. Not as what you assumed her to be of Christian heritage.

129

MichScot,

USA 13/08/2007 16:07:03

#56

The things Christians do in the name of Christianity cannot be backed up by Biblical verse. They are misusing religion. Again, the only instances in the Bible are specific historical incidents and are not meant to be repeated. And they are all Old Testament.

Except when Peter cut off the Roman soldier's ear, and Jesus rebuked Peter and healed the soldier.

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,

13/08/2007 16:10:24
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13/08/2007 16:16:02
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Pinelands,

Cape town 13/08/2007 16:16:17

private dick

Should not the post be limited to say half a dozen paragraphs and not the 3 or 4 tomes written by the above corrospondent. can you imaging a newspaper journalist requiring that amount of writing to make a point .

Certainly there would be no space for the sports page

133

MichScot,

USA 13/08/2007 16:21:44

#61/51
Super!
It's sensible to uphold one's government and to protect its people.

#63
Women, now, as well.

#69
Perhaps they are the VICTIMS.

#82
You conveniently forget that those countries were Christian before being overrun by Islamists.

134

MichScot,

USA 13/08/2007 16:25:18

#84

Read #83. It is in their religious writings, whether you believe it or not.

135

Boab,

Glasgow 13/08/2007 16:33:47

Wow, still going strong the next day!

thewitness: I opened your link, saw the link to the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion', said 'what the-?' and closed it down again. How any sane person could associate themselves with such bilge is beyond me. Go book yourself into therapy, please.

136

MichScot,

USA 13/08/2007 16:35:47

#114
I feel sorry for the perpetual virgins.

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Boab,

Glasgow 13/08/2007 16:36:55

#158 AM2: Well said. Wow, you must be bored in to still be debating with this chap ... roll on the next election, eh?

138

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13/08/2007 16:49:48
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Boab,

Glasgow 13/08/2007 17:06:39

#163 No, you are funny, thewitness. Is Protocols ... the book about how Jews eat human flesh instead of matza balls at passover? Do you believe in an Arayan master race? I'm only mildly interested in these things but I only have a few minutes to kill before I have to go put the dinner on.

140

,

13/08/2007 17:11:17
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13/08/2007 17:14:42
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Boab,

Glasgow 13/08/2007 17:23:37

#165 88vulcan: That's odd, your account of Islam doesn't square with my experience of them as nice and fairly ordinary people; this is backed up by:-

http://www.isb.org.uk/pages/islamexplained.htm

... which shows that it's no more crazed or murderous than any other religion. I've only been to one Islamic country and didn't see anyone having sex with boys, which leads me to think you're just talking out of your arse.

Incidentally, John Knox was a paedo too by our standards.

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Boab,

Glasgow 13/08/2007 17:24:51

#166 LOL! Pillock.

144

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13/08/2007 17:26:57
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Boab,

Glasgow 13/08/2007 17:36:33

#169 thewitness: That'll be a yes to the human flesh theory, then. Sorry pal, talk to 88vulcan about USS Liberty seeing as he's saying it's the towel-heads who eat children.

Go on, please! Promise I'll come back and read your exchanges after I've made dinner.

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Boab,

Glasgow 13/08/2007 17:38:04

# 171 AM2: I think we're out of our depth, here.

#172 Dinner isn't children, btw.

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13/08/2007 18:03:29
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13/08/2007 19:13:44
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Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 871202, Article id was mapped to record!
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13/08/2007 20:05:26
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wisdom,

Edinburgh 13/08/2007 22:35:52

The Protocols make VERY interesting reading ,and as has been said ,if they are a forgery,then a forgery of what exactly....these came to light 100 years or more ago and if we read what's in them and look at the world around us the plan otlined in them has been put in action....it is said that the Protocols are a Jewish plot but it should be pointed out that certain degrees of freemasons refer to themselves as Jews and if the word goyim is replaced by the word PROFANE,then the Protocols do make perfect sense....it is very important to maintain an open mind ....

151

Cyril,

New Zealand 14/08/2007 03:18:27

Reading some of the comments made it would seem that many of the racial and bigoted people would have welcomed Hitler or Stalin in days gone by. How many of these people have travelled , have Catholic friends, have Islamic contacts or served in their country"s armed forces or even been educated.

152

Matilda,

Australia 14/08/2007 05:24:57

#30
Everything John Howard says I go along with. We don't want to go down the path of UK with all there troubles

153

Snowman,

Whistler,BC 14/08/2007 06:46:44

#139 Wisdom..Hen may have been used by the Glasgow working class male but he was never endearing in its context. Possibly registered as the most chauvinistic example of male behaviour anywhere. Some years ago I was priviledged to be present when a certain recently knighted soccer club manager was given the Freedom of the City of Glasgow. Part of the legend written on the scroll is that he is free to hang out washing on Glasgow Green. This brought some laughter but recipient did not think it amusing and to everyone embarrassment and the abuse of social graces replied "I'll no be hanging oot any washing in Glasgow Green, that's wummen's work.." He probably calls his wife Hen.


 

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