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Nursery teacher numbers plunge



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Published Date: 16 March 2008
THE number of nursery teachers in Scottish state schools has rapidly declined over the past three years, potentially damaging the prospects of many youngsters before they even start formal education.
Alarming figures obtained by Scotland on Sunday show some councils have lost almost half their nursery teachers since 2004, with many switched to plug gaps in primary schools.

Nursery teachers are trained professionals who work in nurseries –
usually attached to state schools – preparing three and four-year-olds for the rigours of formal learning.

But many councils have cut costs by shedding nursery teacher posts and replacing them with nursery nurses. Critics claimed last night the move had changed many state nurseries into glorified day care.

Last night, the Scottish Government said it was "deeply concerned" by the slump and pledged to find extra cash to pay for more nursery teachers.

Free nursery education was one of Labour's key pledges when it came to power in 1997. But figures show that the numbers of nursery teachers employed by local authorities fell from 2,307 in 2004 to 2,110 last year, a drop of 8.5%.

But far more drastic decreases have taken place in many areas of Scotland. The biggest losers, according to the government figures, have been in Moray (46%), North Ayrshire (44%) and East Dunbartonshire (33%).

In Glasgow, the number of nursery teachers fell by more than a quarter between 2004 and 2007, with the authority losing 61 of its 237 teachers. Meanwhile in Edinburgh, the numbers have fallen from 246 in 2004 to 216 in 2007. And since the figures were compiled, some councils have cut the numbers further. Stirling reduced its nursery teaching staff from 29.2 full-time equivalent posts to just 11.

Many nursery teachers have been "redeployed" to primary schools to reduce class sizes and give more attention to children who struggle to learn.

Teachers last night called on local authorities and ministers to reverse the decline, citing studies that link educational achievement to having nursery teachers in pre-school education.

A spokesman for the EIS teaching union, said: "While many local authorities are to be commended for their continuing commitment to employing permanent nursery teachers, others seem to be putting financial savings ahead of ensuring high-quality nursery provision. This adds to growing concern of a postcode lottery in nursery provision."

A Scottish Government spokesman said: "The Scottish Government has committed to providing access to a teacher for every pre-school child and this is reflected in the concordat with local government."

A government source claimed: "This decline happened while Labour and the Lib-Dems were in power and engaging in smear and scare tactics against the SNP. While they smeared us, they let down the children of Scotland."

No-one was available for comment from Labour.

The Conservatives last night called on ministers and councils to make more use of private nurseries. Scottish Tory education spokeswoman Liz Smith, said: "We are firmly of the opinion that private sector resources are not being well harnessed in this area, which puts an additional burden on councils, some of whom are using the SNP budget as the excuse for cuts."

However, nursery nurses challenge claims that the loss of nursery teachers will have a negative impact on education. Carol Ball, chairwoman of the education issues committee of the public services union Unison, said: "In the many years I have been a nursery nurse, I have never seen a nursery teacher deliver a lesson I could not have delivered myself."

The view from the chalkface

Marie Pisaneschi is a head teacher at Eastwood Nursery School in Glasgow with more than 20 years' experience teaching under-fives.

"Being trained as a nursery teacher means we know how to organise things in order to help teach literacy, numeracy and communication skills; right down to how we organise, say, a play restaurant or shop in the corner," she said.

"It is that extra training which others don't have that makes the difference and that allows us to deliver excellence in learning.

"We are already noticing that where the authorities have removed or cut down the numbers of nursery teachers, the outcomes are not as good for the children.

"In primary schools, they are adding teachers in order to improve things for the children. Shouldn't that tell us something and that we should be recruiting more nursery teachers?"



The full article contains 734 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 March 2008 7:43 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Nurseries , Teaching
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/03/2008 02:09:02
Albeit, the Nursery Teachers are trained professionals,
I have NO Problem with that!

But DONT EVER! call a 'NURSERY NURSE'
"glorified day care."

It IS Simply NOT TRUE ad a lie!

To even get 'status' as a "NURSERY NURSE" it takes years of training!! and dedication!!

My DYW is in her last month of getting the 'Status'
"NURSERY NURSE"
I help her with her work, about a total of about 4years now, staying in at weekends for homework, and putting her, 'all' into her 'childcare carrera'

I WILL NOT Have her..'Undreminded', nor any "NURSEY NURSE"!
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/03/2008 02:26:49
"glorified day care."

Don't even Start!

The Statement is a 'Dammed-out-Lie'!

We are NOT in,(Past Jersey) you know!

You make me 'very angry' to call it "glorified day care."!

All Staff in, 'Scottish' Nurseries are 'Dedicated' to give the best care, love, and attention, to your Babies, Toddlers and Children!
We have the Best system in the World,.that is governed by the HMie (care commission)
To which all aspects of childcare and learning is covered!
3

Rozz Fyffe,

Scotland 16/03/2008 04:57:23
My dear wife ( of equal age to myself I am not a believer in child brides or catalogue wives ) and I would not have trusted any of of our children to glorified day care.

We preffered to teach them the basics of the three R's in the family home where we could select their friends and be a full part of their upbringing. We did not want the convinience of a daytime baby sitter.

4

,

16/03/2008 06:04:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 16/03/2008 10:10:58
Instead of the SNP's proposed across the board reductions in primary class sizes surely the resources would be better spent addressing this problem?
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/03/2008 11:05:30
clarry @#5,
At least I put some 'True Life' colour on these forums, always with good truth element.

This Story though, really ....'rattled my cage'!
7

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 16/03/2008 12:19:50
What's the point of nursery schools? They were unknown 50 years ago and children got on perfectly well. In fact, children then usually ended up better educated than children do now!
8

Alba 2,

Glasgow 16/03/2008 13:00:38
Urban Guerrilla
nursery schools have in fact been around for more than 100 years, unfortunatley apart from a short period during the 2nd world war there has not been universal provision. Many children and parents have benfitted form nursery education over the years and many more have not.
It is time to end the postcode lottery and ensure that all children have equal access to high quality nursery education.
9

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 16/03/2008 13:07:42
#10, but what's the point of them? Aren't they just a glorified child-minding service?
10

Calum Crubag,

16/03/2008 13:10:32
#11- go and find out for yourself boolshitter, if you have the courage. It's one of the hardest jobs around.
11

n/,

Perth 16/03/2008 13:19:50
#3.
'We preffered to teach them the basics of the three R's in the family home'and 'we did not want the convinience of a day time baby sitter'?
preffered? convinience?
If such spelling is the norm in your family,I have to pity the children!
As for 'glorified day care'? What precisely is that?

And 'I am not a believer in child brides and catalogue wives'?
Don't think I will even go there!
12

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 16/03/2008 13:21:55
#12, no-one in my generation went to one, and we got on just fine.

13

Alba 2,

Glasgow 16/03/2008 15:34:16
It is a pity that every time someone tries to in initiate a serious discussion about the value of nursery teachers Carol Ball reduces the issue to that of teachers versus nursery nurses. The issue is much more serious and complex than that.

Let me clarify a few points:
1. Primary teachers are qualified to teach children age 3 to 12 in both mainstream and specialist schools and further training is available in both these specialist areas.
It takes a total of 5/6 years study at University level including the probationary year, to achieve qualified teacher status.

3. Specialist nursery teachers such as Ms Pisaneschi have undertaken an additional 1 year full time training in the early years and many have also gone on to study at Masters Degree level.

4. Nursery Nurses train for 2 years full time at a College of Education to achieve an HNC(SVQ level 3) or in the private sector can work as unqualified nursery assistants while completeing SVQ level 3 modules. This route can take up to 3 years depending on the pace and ability of the candidate.

5. The entry level to teacher training is at Higher level while the entry level to HNC is at Standard grade.

6. Teacher training includes in depth study of theories of learning and teaching, research, methodology and pedagogy. Without a sound knowledge and undersanding of Pedagogy a teacher cannot teach effectively.

Teaching skills are assessed throughout training and the probationary year to ensure that all teachers meet the national standard for initial teacher qualification.

7. Nursery nurses study child development however there is no national standard for initial qualification or a probationary year to ensure basic standards. The Pedagogy of teaching and learning is not an integral part of the HNC course.

8. Some nursery nurses have gone on to university to achieve a BA degree in early years studies. However this course again does not look at the pedagogy of teaching and learning and does not con
14

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/03/2008 15:34:30
'Hear!..Hear!' Calum Crubag, @#12.
15

Alba 2,

Glasgow 16/03/2008 15:39:36
contd

8. Some nursery nurses have gone on to university to achieve a BA degree in early years studies. However this course again does not look at the pedagogy of teaching and learning and does not confer teacher status. Anyone with a BA can apply to do the 1 year post graduate teacher training course and subsequent probationary year in order to acquire the relevant knowledge and skills to be a competent teacher.

9. Nursery teachers do not wish to see the removal of nursery nurses from this sector of education. They recognise that the two professions compliment one another and in combination can provide the best environment for learning and teaching. Ms Ball on the other hand does not see the need for teachers in this sector.

10. The two professions are trained differently and to a different standard - FACT. That is the main reason why teachers attract a higher salary level than nursery nurses. Nursery teachers are paid the same scale as all other teachers and are therfore an expensive resources compared to that of nursery nurses.

11. Research both in Britain and abroad confirms that where qualified teachers take the lead the quality of learning and teaching is more likely to be high.

12. Ms Ball says she has not seen a nursery teacher deliver a lesson that she could not deliver herself!!
Neither nursery teachers or nursery nurses should be seen to "deliver lessons to young children." This is just not good practice. The early years curriculum is not that of the simplistic model of empty vessels waiting to be filled. As any good practioner would tell you the process of learning and teaching especially in the early years, is much more complex and demanding that that. Perhaps it is time that Ms Ball returned to the playroom floor to experience the currrent process of creating and providing high quality learning opportunities for young children before she makes any more innaccurate statements.

13. Scottish Education is moving towards a Curri
16

Alba 2,

Glasgow 16/03/2008 15:41:34
contd
13. Scottish Education is moving towards a Curriculum for Excellence. This curriculum covers the age range 3 to 18 and the early stage is from 3 to 6 years. All children regardless of age deserve access to a qualified teacher and we can only hope that the SNP government will follow through with their pledge of ensuring all pre school children having access to a nursery teacher.

14.Scotland currently ranks very low in term of the quality of provision for young children and families. We should not allow ourselves to be distracted by petty arguements promoted by Ms Balls stance. Instead we should all be seeking to ensure that our youngest children receive the best education whatever that actually looks like and whatever it actually costs.
17

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/03/2008 15:45:07
Alba 2 @#15,

Excellent comment and documented,

Ohh to have been educated! (me not so well)..:-((
18

Nursery Nurse,

Glasgow 16/03/2008 16:12:36
I am a nursery nurse - a very good one I believe. I left school at 16 with no formal qualifications but managed to access FE college some years later as a mature student. My sister stayed on at school and went to university to train as a teacher. I was challenged by my 2 year SVQ Level course and ould not have done what my sister did to meet cthe demands of teacher training.
During my nursery nurse training I was supervised by both teachers and nursery nurses. I currently work in a school with both a teacher and nursery nurses.
I can honestly say that we both have very different sets of skills and knowledge. I could not and would not want to do on my own many of the challenging tasks that the teacher does.
I believe that the teacher is trained to a level which enables her to guide and support me and my colleagues in planning and providing a quality curriculum for our children. If the teacher was not present there would be lots of things that could not be done to the standard that is required.
If I had wanted to be a nursery teacher and all that goes with it I would have stuck in at school and gone to university. I didn't. I enjoy being a nursery nurse and would not want to work in a school that did not have a teacher. Children need both.
19

Soo,

Livingston 16/03/2008 21:16:52
It is true that some Nursery teachers are not present all the time, but are involved in planning what activities will take place. Nursery nurses are also professionals who work as a team with the teacher. They are not 'day care staff' this undermines the work that all nursery staff do to prepare the children for school.
20

danielrober,

16/03/2008 21:28:38
We have paid (are paying) more than a few child carer's, over the last few years. For the most part they have just been babysitting, which has been good. Some have even tried telling us how to raise our kids (cheek)

AHHH, but we've had three people who where worth their weight in gold. Spending money on this is a solid national investment.
21

subrosa,

16/03/2008 21:31:30
Never knew any child who went to nursery in my day. Nobody had money to pay for it in the first place. Back then of course school was about education and the 3 R etc.

All these people associated with nurseries vying for superiority. Don't think I'd like any child of mine to be in such an atmosphere.
22

Alba 2,

Glasgow 16/03/2008 21:44:41
My point exactly Subrosa, the case for teachers in nursery schools has been hijacked by the paranoia of Ms Ball who feels that her members are somehow undermined by the presence of teachers.
Please note that teachers want to work with nursery nurses, they are not trying to prove that they are superior rather that they bring to the playroom additional knowledge and skills that can enhance the educational experience.
Teachers are being forced into justifying their value because of the lack of understanding of the role of a nursery teacher. Some people use this to promote their own self interest rather than that of the children we are all meant to want to do the best for.
Nursery Nurse @20 thank you for your professional and honest contribution to this discussion. You clearly have your children's best interests at heart and are thankfully not caught up with petty side arguments.
23

Kitti Kat,

16/03/2008 22:38:47
Number 3 take not. Not everyone can stay home and teach their kids basics. Some people have no choice but to go to work and hope that the day care where their children are supervised and taught by professionals. coming from a family of teachers and medical people, I support all nursery teachers and nurses. They have gone through years of training and deserve to be paid well. Most are dedicated professionals who care for their young charges. The gov't should see to it that all children have access to good day care if their parents have to work outside the home. Thanks to all those dedicated people.
24

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/03/2008 23:09:50
To give you an idea of how dedicated Nursery Teachers and Nursery Nurses are to their profession, here I am on a Sunday Night, just finishing 3hours work with my DYW, on her childcare course SVQ Level 3 final.
Tonight's topic was 'behavioural problems' in children's, to which every aspect has to be addressed, now at 11.06pm , my DYW is handwriting it up!
I would hardly call this, 'glorified child care'

I love helping her though and its interesting some searches on a topic takes ages, its not always in the information she is given.
Dedicated must be the 'key-word'!
25

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/03/2008 23:14:16
And for anyone that thinks that Nurseries are just a,
'Bunch of Adults with toys' waiting to entertain your child,
'THINK-AGAIN'!!
26

subrosa,

17/03/2008 00:43:42
# 25

You're very fortunate to have this facility. It's the likes of women like myself who fought for it for you. We had to pay for private childcare and take the risk that it wasn't perhaps as good as it should be. Count your blessings and be grateful for what you now have. My children didn't have it and I had to work full-time, because of family tragedy.

The necessity of teachers in nurseries beats me though. The nursery nurses I've met over the years seem more than capable to organise the children's days. Ah well, top heavy situation as usual. Wouldn't happen in a private nursery.
27

subrosa,

17/03/2008 00:45:48
# 26 Charles how chauvinistic of you! She's 'writing it up' while you sit on the PC. Be ashamed.

Actually Charles I can think of many weekends throughout my lifetime when I sat studying well into the night without complaint. Most people do that at times in order to better there chances in the job market. Obviously your whatever is one of them.
28

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 01:04:46
subrosa @# 29,

Excuse me! you entirley missed the point!

I have been helping my DYW for three hours, I cant 'hand write' it up for her, it would not be her work!
I help her as any Loving Husband, would do!

Hardly "chauvinistic" is it,?
29

Alba 2,

Glasgow 17/03/2008 07:42:25
Subrosa@28 Why do you beleve that teachers in nursery are top heavy. Do you feel they are over qualified or do they cost too much? Did you not think your children deserved a teacher in their early years. I cannot believe that as a mother you would not want the very best for your children. This is not a criticism of nursery nurses it is a response to your statement that the provision of teachers in nursery schools is a top heavy approach.
30

Rowantrees,

Glasgow 17/03/2008 23:47:48
I acknowledge the importance of the issue raised in this article - Teacher specialists working with children during their formative years. Crucial in establishing solid foundations for learning.

The 3-18 curriculum designed by teachers for delivery by teachers. Others who work in classrooms or nursery schools are an important part of service delivery but their place in this environment does not qualify them as teachers. Their role in supporting the teaching and learning process is very important.

But now my point - it put a smile on my face, in fact I howled with laughter to see the Unison trade union woman quoted "In the many years I have been a nursery nurse, I have never seen a nursery teacher deliver a lesson I could not have delivered myself."

Well over all the years I have watched Delia deliver from her cook book, I have followed her recipe but it was never quite the same; I watch CSI but do not feel equipped to inspect a crime scene;I have observed many professionals but have never thought that furnished me with the pre-requisites to carry out their task.

Without training I could not operate the technology involved in serving members of the public in any of our superstores.

Qualifications are the evidence that a person is trained to carry out a specific professional role.

Thinking one can do a job and being able to do the job is quite different.
31

tash,glasgow,

Glasgow 18/03/2008 07:55:50
Rowantrees, I loved your analogy re Delia and CSI etc. Sometimes teachers make it look too easy. Onlookers don't take account of the thinking, planning/preparation and prior knowledge that has gone into a planned interaction with children.

Even now after pay rises, little has changed with some nursery nurses. I would say for some, their attitude is worse - for example, how many do their CPD training - they get an extra week's wage for 'training' outwith their 35 hours (term time employees). Who monitors that they do it - their union has said it's up to the individual and the nursery/council has no control/monitoring...taxpayer's money springs to mind.

Some nursery nurses are getting better, more aware and enjoying the challenge of moving into the 21st century...a few others are struggling to keep up academically...and some others are only in the job for themselves, not the children - they don't want mess or noise or learning outdoors - they do everything they can to undermine a good nursery nurse knowing that her enthusiasm makes them look bad.
It's not about respective roles of teachers and nursery nurses - it's about quality in early years for children and some nursery nurse staff can't or won't make the effort.

 

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