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Labour leads all-party attack on SNP budget

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Published Date: 18 November 2007
LABOUR is close to sealing a cross-party deal that would block the SNP Budget unless millions of pounds in extra funding is given to Scotland's cash-starved universities.
Opposition politicians are furious that the higher education sector received only half the money it asked for in the Nationalists' first Holyrood Budget and are working on a deal to force extra cash from the minority Government.

Under the plan, Labour, the Lib Dems and Tories would unite to form a parliamentary majority and vote through an amendment which takes millions from one part of the SNP Budget and hands it to hard-pressed universities.

Scotland on Sunday can reveal that the Lib Dems have already signed up in principle to the deal and the Tories have agreed to enter into discussions with Labour.

University funding was seen as one of the big losers in last week's SNP Budget. Universities Scotland had wanted £526m over three years but instead received just £263m.

Higher education chiefs fear the lack of cash will result in the most talented staff heading to better-paid jobs outside the country and that the quality of Scottish university tuition and research will decline.

Rhona Brankin, Labour's education spokeswoman, is leading the bid to "hijack" the SNP Budget. If Labour forges a temporary coalition with the Lib Dems and Tories, they will have 78 out of Holyrood's 128 votes, giving them a comfortable majority.

Amendments will be put to Parliament which will switch up to £90m of Budget cash over three years to universities. Labour insiders believe the SNP's commitment to freezing council tax is one area from which money could be freed.

Brankin told Scotland on Sunday: "We're throwing down the gauntlet to the SNP. We have been talking to the other parties about this and we believe there is widespread dismay about the level of funding for universities. Last week, John Swinney went to Glasgow University to launch his economic strategy in the full knowledge that he was then going to cut the university funding which is so vital to our economic future."

A Scottish Lib Dems spokesman said: "Universities are vital to our economy and we are deeply disturbed at the inadequate settlement. There's a lot in this motion that we are sympathetic to, and we would want to amend the funding for universities in any case. There is scope for working together."

Murdo Fraser, the Tory education spokesman and deputy leader, said: "We are certainly prepared to talk to Labour about a move to amend the Budget on this issue, but we're still studying the budget and we can't make any firm commitment at this stage."

If either the Lib Dems or Tories back out and abstain, it may be theoretically possible for

Labour to form a majority with the help of the Scottish Green Party. But Green leader Robin Harper said that while they wanted more money for universities they would attempt to do that by "negotiation" rather than "obstructing the budget".

The Nationalist strategy in the face of any Budget-wrecking coalition will be to offer individual deals with opposition parties in which they find extra funding for their key policies in return for helping to vote through the budget. Sources in both the Tories and the SNP have indicated that they could reach some kind of deal on cash for justice and law and order.

A senior source close to First Minister Alex Salmond said: "Under the Scotland Act, those who propose amendments to the Budget must explain what they would cut to make up for their extra spending.

"We challenge Labour to tell the people of Scotland which hospitals they want to close, which health services they want to cut, and how they will cut back on community safety to pay for their plans. Labour over-allocated £250m, they allotted money that wasn't there to budgets. We are having to sort out their mess."

Scotland's leading academics have admitted worries that universities north of the Border will fall behind because of competition from English institutions for the best staff.

Universities in England are allowed to charge top-up fees for their courses, with that cash being ploughed into better facilities and higher salaries. Ministers in Scotland have refused to allow the charges to be levied and have hoped to make up for the shortfall through central funding from Government.

Dr Brian Lang, principal of St Andrews University, said last week: "The settlement for higher education in Scotland is quite simply inadequate. It will have serious repercussions for the stability of the sector north of the Border."

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1

Zibi is a Jambo,

18/11/2007 00:55:17

Undoubtedly, the SNP will simply blame "London Labour" for the shortfall.

Meanwhile, the Tories and Lib Dumbs want to make Wendy Alexander look good. Why?

It's well seen that you get the politicians you deserve.

2

Brian S,

LONDON 18/11/2007 01:01:07

Scrap the trams - problem solved.

3

scotleag,

18/11/2007 01:15:45

"Labour over-allocated £250m, they allotted money that wasn't there to budgets. We are having to sort out their mess." said this "source" close to Salmond

I thought the last administration had an underspend of £900M? For an economist Mr Salmond isn't very good at sums

4

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 01:33:58

The opposition parties could agree to scrap the unwanted and unnecessary tram line they foisted upon us and divert the money to university funding if it is that much of a priority to them.

5

Bad Yin,

Holding my breath because of the stench! 18/11/2007 01:40:36

Hardly an all party attack as neither the greens nor the tories have signed up. Really it's just labour and their martinet libdems.

What's the real goal of this exercise? I don't believe for a minute it's about ubiversity funding - more likely it is to wreck the concordat. That is where extra funding for universities will have to come from and that is the source of labours anxieties.

A deal which seperates labour councils from branch office control at John Smith House in Glasgow and, ultimately, Party Central at Victoria St. in London can't be tolerated. Swinney tried to hijack labours grass roots and that just isn't on.

6

,

18/11/2007 01:45:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

BAM2,

18/11/2007 02:04:13

#9 - Right to respect it ? When most of edinburghs citizens can't see the point of them or the expense?

As for Wendy Alexander Leading a fight? Half her office has walkeld out on her, would like to see her try.

I hope she does defeat the budget. We can then have an election.

8

,

18/11/2007 02:06:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1151668, Article id was mapped to record!
9

Nevyn,

Glasgow 18/11/2007 02:08:47

If Labour are suicidal enough to vote to undermine the Council Tax Freeze then they will have learned nothing from the Scottish elections except how to go about losing the next one.

10

karin m,

18/11/2007 02:19:20

I seem to remember labour trying this unionist cabal idea before. The conservatives as i recall gave them short shrift. No where in the article does it say that the other parties have agreed to this. Doesnt say they havent but doesnt say they have. I see labour are obviously still in denial that they lost the election. Does anyone know what happens if labour and the othe parties do this doesnt it mean another election?

11

bled,

18/11/2007 02:23:34

The opposition parties are hypocrates. They gang up against the Government to force £500 to be spent on Trams for 1 city, and then gang up again to complain about a £263 shortfall in university funding that they played a part in creating. Hypocrates.

12

Bad Yin,

Holding my breath because of the stench! 18/11/2007 02:28:56

All this fraternal bickering - universities - GP's - students - councils - all yelling - we want more! Well, ye cannae hiv onymair 'cause Westminister said so!

So we have a party in office, the SNP, who prioritized spending according to what we got from Westminister. Their priority was to get rid of the council tax. Oh, there's a lot more they would like to do but Westminister controlls OUR money and so our possibilities!

In order to see an end to council tax the SNP had to woo COSLA away from their labour masters, which they did. Labour can't accept that and so have declared war.

Labour's strategy has to be to show the SNP as incompetent. They will not want to have a non-confidence vote over the budget. Rather, they strive to undermine the administration on this issue so that a fabricated crisis in the near future will be accepted as reason for a non-confidence vote.

And don't think for a minute this will lead to an election. Hell no! The SNP government will be forced to resign and the LabLibDem coalition will ride again.

This is as good as it gets under devolution. If you want better - better get independent!

13

Bad Yin,

Holding my breath because of the stench! 18/11/2007 02:48:46

AM2,

I'm not really concerned about how many angels can dance on the end of a pin. I'm just observing unionist politicians sashaying around the dance floor looking for an easy lumber.

This is as good as it gets under devolution. If you want better - better get independent!

14

Bad Yin,

Holding my breath because of the stench! 18/11/2007 03:09:04

P.S.

AM2,

My wife has obviously been boasting again, but the handle is "BAD YIN".

15

,

18/11/2007 03:36:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
16

mesmiths,

fife 18/11/2007 03:46:45

phew, that was close. Labour here to save the day now though.

17

Pete39,

Tassy 18/11/2007 03:59:55

I like a political party that takes the unpleasant steps as well as the popular ones, Scotland appears to have one so you should nurture it. As far as universities looking for more funding to offer more useless courses and of course have the benefit of higher pay, go for the lean, mean and extreme, dump the excess baggage. Personally I have always thought that Scots of all political parties have the intelligence to find the right solution. Now take Australia, with Labour just about guaranteed to win the next election, we will have 70% of the front bench ex Union members. Now there's a thought.

18

Lindsey,,

Glasgow 18/11/2007 04:07:42

This is a desperate story fed to S.O.S. by a desperate Labour party.

The Tories and the Greens are not, and will not come, on board.

The Labour/LibDem alliance is thrashing around for anything that floats to save themelves from drowning.

The Tories aint gonna toss them a lifebelt.

Wendy and Nichol are going down for the third time........ Good riddence !!!

19

Harris tweed and levi's 501,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 04:15:20

Well, apparently AM2 is not Matthew Marr.

That particular M2, being a typical example of a “hard working”, labour voting individual, concerned about what the impact of abolishing council tax would have on the take home pay of his £60,000 per annum salary, now has more time to spend with his family.

His family appear to include; Linda from Shettland, Mike from Head Office, Watcher4 from Moffatsville, scotleag from denial town, and various other instantly forgettable siblings from oddly misspelt locations.

We should of course be grateful for our own wee AM2.
He continues to allude to statistics, polls, quotes and surveys which show that we do not really desire independence, and that in reality we are really hugely enamoured by our status as North Britons, (second class).

It would appear that the going rate for the constant reinforcing of such concepts is £60k per annum, and if AM2 is receiving less than that he is underselling himself.

Mind you, the labourtories now have another vacancy in that department.

20

Bad Yin,

Aspiring to greatness! 18/11/2007 04:29:37

(AM2 says, "mirror - mirror - I used to think I was fallable but I was mistaken!)

Ciderman 542000,

Why not have communities second local kids to training courses and university. The community pays their way in exchange for their services for a stipulated length of time at a negotiated rate of remuneration.

Simple really when you think of it as supporting our kids and our communities. I believe that we can turn our nation around by simply focusing on what kind of place we want to live in and directing our resources there.

Characters on this board will try to make you foccus on numbers. But it is not so much about numbers as intentiions. What kind of Scotland do you want to build. What do you intend we should do to achieve that possible future?

Further, a nation occupies a different space and time from a state! Empires come and go, but nations endure. Imagine what it must have felt like to be the last Roman unionist in ancient Scotland -

- Ahm tellin ye - stick wae Rome. Whit'll we dae aboot schools, an roads, an public safety? Aye - if it wisnae fur Rome we'd be in the keck!'

Well, we got through it then - did we no?

I think the problem is we adopt the model of society that has been imposed upon us and can't think outside the box. And that standard is a bean counter's standard that will explain to you why: It's better, and cheaper, or necesarily more expensive, to bring someone in to do the job 'cause you or your kid, are either too expensive, or unqualified to do the job.

The SNP are trying to get the money to the people through their councils as they are the most directly elected and accesible members of the political classes. Tell your councillors -"Hell yeah! We want controll of the money" and then pressure councils to build your community the way you want it!

But this is as good as it gets under devolution. If you want better - better get independent!

21

Lindsey,,

Glasgow 18/11/2007 04:44:29

Freeze council tax(SNP)- or- Splurge on Uni's (LAB)

More police (SNP) -or- Shiny trams (LAB)

Save hospital A&Es (SNP) - or - Close A&Es (LAB)

Smaller classes (SNP) - or - larger classes (LAB)

Student Grants (SNP) -or - Student Fees (LAB)

NO TRIDENT (SNP) - or - Shiny new TRIDENT (LAB)

Oppose Iraq war (SNP) -or- Support Iraq war (LAB)

Oppose Bush (SNP) - or - Support Bush (LAB)

SCOTLAND FIRST (SNP) - or - LONDON FIRST (LAB)

could go on, but you get my drift.....

22

Watson,

Irvine 18/11/2007 04:48:48

the following was reported in The Times yesterday.

Labour’s manifesto in 2005 stated: “Not all problems need a 999 response, so a single phone number staffed by police, local councils and other local services will be available across the country.”
The first hint that the Government would not be able to fulfil its promise came this year when Tony McNulty, the Police Minister, said that he could not say whether funds would be available for the trials to continue.

This week the Home Office told the five areas testing the service, which charges 10p a call, that ministers had decided not to continue to fund them and that local areas would have to provide their own funding.

If the Westminster Government can't fund their own promises what chance has the Scottish Government got when their money is cut by the Westminster (Labour) Government?

23

Colin B,

Bearsden 18/11/2007 04:51:31

Our Universities are very badly managed - Sir Muir Russell who messed up Holyrood for exmaple is in charge at Glasgow spent £500K on pantomime research -many lecturers do 6 hours a week in classes, teach subjects that are irrelevant and are anti business.

24

Bad Yin,

Aspiring to greatness! 18/11/2007 05:04:37

Colin B,

Scotland never had so much a grand educational system as a climate of learning. But what a climate that was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Enlightenment

It had something to do with confidence and thinking outside the box.

25

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 05:48:05

In today's economic climate it's about time Universities and other education organisations realised that they'll have to tighten their belts. They are after all educating people economics and how our World is run.
I'd suggest a change back to "proper" degrees in the rudiments of maths, science, language, arts and history NOT degrees in management, they're meaningless and not working.

26

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 05:51:55

As for St.Andrews University, it's hardly cash struck. It has millions upon millions of pounds worth of land and property and an enrolment strategy that encourages as many overseas students to learn there then bugger off back to their respective countries.

27

T. MacIntosh,

Toronto 18/11/2007 06:12:12

24.
Consider what is shovelling here.Unionist rag claims entire opposition is after the budget then in it's next breath it admits greens and tories are only part of a labour scheme to undemine Scotland.First they short fund,then wendy picks the budget pocket by these dinky toy trams most of the folk don't want,now they'll try to rob Peter to bribe Paul.It is part of how the awful mess the government has to clean up developed.Labour will find all the chickens come back to roost next election,which they will not force since they know they'll lose.This rag only makes the hole deeper labour dug for itself.Let's see where they try to rob Peter;if they go near the council tax freezes all persons affected will be alienated from even the thought of a labour vote.If theyb try to get at the council tax freezes they'll have to unfreeze the whole works not just where they hold seats which is a recipe to disaster at getting votes they hope to use this matter as a pretext to get.

28

A Better Way,

18/11/2007 06:17:11

Its hard to believe that Wendy and Nicol are that stupid. Yes I know we all think they are dumb, but this type of action verges on suicidal madness. Yes Nicol and Wendy are facing questions about their leaderships, and the gossip is that they are only being left there as caretakers until six months out from the next election, but this rubbish is beyond the pale.

These two Numpties better get their registration for the Fringe next year because thats the only place that people will listen to their jokes.

2017 now seems to be a bit far off as a date for Independance. Bring it in four years and that sounds right. Brown will be gone by the following year and the Tories will be in as the Government if they can form a coalition with the only SNP MP's coming from Scotland, because there wont be any Libs or New Numpties, thats for sure.

What a bunch of headbangers the Unionists are. And now they are run by two halfwits it could mean the end of the London Controlled New Labour and LiBDEMs.

As many have already said, to get the country we want, we first need to control our own funds. So much for Wendy, Nicol and Annabel sitting down with their masters at the defunct Scottish Office. They obviously were not welcome at the Scottish Parliament.

Alex and the other real Scots better get to work designing passports, and London Government Letterheads will need to be burnt or donated to the museum as displays on the history of the once active Act of Union. Scottish School kids will giggle when they see these ancient docuements that their ancestors used to put up with.

Saor Alba

29

langtonian,

scotus 18/11/2007 06:55:07

"We are having to sort out their mess"-quote from above by SEPERATIST first minister Alex Salmond.
The self perpetrated quagmire is due to
*Flawed over hyped conference triumphalist manifesto

*Such a "wish" list that young children put up the lum(if they have one) with no knowledge or regard of what the cost,or likelihood of the money being available to make their wishes come true.

*One does not have to be an oil economist or monetary genius to make up "wishes"which would require a blank cheque to even attempt to get anywhere near such voids of misplaced greed and expectation.

*#7 Bad Yin
in the last paragraph of his posting-start at- A deal which separates labour councils(empowered by democratically voters)from branch office control at John Smith House, read to end of paragraph.

*Repeat the Reading is at the root and branch heart of Salmond/Swinney now you see now you don't budget.

*Question, if some months down the line several of Scotlands 32 councils declare they cannae operate (on the yet to be advised funding they are allocated) and state that THEY must have more funding or go to the wall.John Swinney with his reserve of hundreds of thousand of pounds can then in theory bail them out.
Lets assume 1SNP council 1Labour council (not Glasgow it's a special case) 1 Lib Dem council are in such a parlous state they require more funding

Hands up all those who think that the SNP council will get first kick of th ball .It could very well become a SNP council Bonanza with councils of differing persuasion being left in the lurch.

Such is a very live scenario that woul bring both Democracy into doubt yet leave a Gerrymandering culture to evolve.

It has to nipped in the bud.

30

,

18/11/2007 07:16:00
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Reason:
31

spiderman,

argyll 18/11/2007 07:21:41

The universities aren't short of money at all - see the amount of tax-payers' cash they spend on staff travel to international conferences each year. Or see the minor workload of many staff members. Too many universities aren't real universities, short of key subjects altogether. The answer is a full rationalisation of Scotland's needs - which would mean fewer better universities achieved by mergers and closures and with huge savings.

As for the so-called labour-led union against the SNP, it initially looks like a clever move by their standards but it's really on the wrong topic and with the wrong solution.

32

Logon no.6 and counting.,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 07:22:13

17

Aye we saw that meaningless pish yesterday and gave it the attention it deserved now run along tae the Telegraph and troll around where yer worthless talents are more appreciated.
By the way I am still waiting for you to reconcile yer 9bn NS revenue with Norways 21bn even though according to me Norway produces 1/2 the oil the UK does and according to you its about even either way yer figures dont add up.
Much like yer mince today and yesterday.

33

Concerned local,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 07:22:21

If our universities are cash-strapped i hasn't happenedovernight, surely it is the fault of the previous administration for allowing this situation to develop?

Ans when are our so-called autonomous universities going to stop screaming for public money every time anything needs to be done, and yet still refuse to allow Audit Scotland anywhere near their books to check how they are using public money on the grounds that most of their money comes from non-public sources? They want their cake and eat it. The public should demand they face the full rigour of public audit, by auditors of our appointment not theirs, if they want our cash.

34

Bad Yin,

Lookin Oot tae the great beyond! 18/11/2007 07:23:19

C'mon Kitcaldy. Yer no that far gone. Scotland needs ye. Get on side!

35

Logon no.6 and counting.,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 07:26:09

35

I am still amazed at how many of you lets call you unionists for want of a better word still take Scotsman headlines at face value when trying to form an opinion or argument havent you buggers learned anything yet about starting off yer argument on firm foundations?

36

Bad Yin,

Lookin Oot tae the great beyond! 18/11/2007 07:28:36

It's up tae us - whit kind ae Scotland dae you want?

C'moan - speak.

37

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 07:37:20

#35
Langtonian
Are you trying to put us to sleep?

Just the sort of Labour drivel that most enlightened Scots put you in the minority. I've every faith that soon, those in the West of Fife will also see the light and put and end to one of Labours strongholds.
All for the benefit of Fife and Scotland and NOT Fife Council and it's Labour crony -ism.

As for the relevance of the headline have you got the right posting?

Goodbye Labour.

38

Norville Barnes,

18/11/2007 07:38:51

Glad to see democracy can prevent the damage the SNP want to do.

Fortunately when the SNP use this fiasco, of their own doing, to try and stir up resenentment and make another fight they will find it doesn't win votes.

39

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 07:52:41

#44
Please try and think out of the box.
It's Labour that want the fight.
Did you also actually read the heasdline?

40

terry osser,

london 18/11/2007 08:12:03

tram will be massively over budget

41

James,

Dundee 18/11/2007 08:14:37

'Rhona Brankin, Labour's education spokeswoman, is leading the bid'

Would you allow this person to lead an OAP across the road?

Her track record of incompetence means only one thing.

This labour pipedream is a dead duck.

42

whitegold,

Shire 18/11/2007 08:39:09

Sounds like this is cheap political point scoring by Labour rather than any genuine concern. Labour has had ample time in Scotland to show its failed policies; - to deliberately try and wreck the council freeze for political point scoring (the reality of what is happening here) is going to be remembered.

As was the expensive trams scheme.

Labour had a purely negative campaign - and their strategy in opposition is the same.

43

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 09:07:17

"Universities Scotland had wanted £526m over three years but instead received just £263m."
The difference between what you want and what you get in the real world is called your wish list.
Have the universities published this wish list and who has been responsible for calculating the costs ?
Before the other opposition parties jump on board Wendy's caterpillar maybe they should ask her to produce the wish list.

44

Mikey,

18/11/2007 09:19:50

Yep, let's have an election. And let's have it on the premise that the Westminster puppets want you to pay more council tax! Let's face it, that's what they want!

Sooner or later, the Westminster puppets will understand that this is the SCOTTISH parliament and that anybody who takes orders from another parliament while sitting in this one, will have a soubriquet applied.

And another thing, if there is another election, let's see where each party's funding comes from. Daniel Defoe had nothing on this bunch of yellow bellied puppets!

45

Foresight,

By the Water of Leith 18/11/2007 09:19:57

Answer - privatise the universities and give needy students grants.

46

watcher4,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 09:28:33

The Nats have cut the pensioners heating allowance in real terms. The previous administration started to put central heating into pensioners houses but this government has cut this.

47

allan58,

edinburgh 18/11/2007 09:29:57

Clearly you haven't improved with age AM2.

The only people who want this ridiculous tram line are ( a) politicians (b) people like you who don't live in Edinburgh & won't end up paying for a worthless vanity project that will be of no benefit to Edinburgh.

Take the money from this pathetic project. Problem solved. That'll delay it for years - hopefully to the point where the SNP can do the sensible thing & KILL IT!

48

george alexander,

north lanarkshire 18/11/2007 09:36:37

I have been pointing out for some time the habit of the Unionist media to employ Scottish opposition party slogans in articles and broadcast items.

They know what they are doing as do the trolls like AM2 who feed on the stuff.

We will never have balance within Scottish media whilst those who own/run it rely heavily on the current system for their privileges.

That is why I have proposed on these forums a boycott of all online newspapers on St Andrew's day. It would be good to see these articles bereft of comments.....just for a day of course.

49

Queen D,

Glasgow 18/11/2007 09:44:26

For whom are all these MPs working?
It ill becomes any of them to try to scupper plans for the sake of it.
Scotland is watching!

50

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 09:46:33

Have just had a look at #13 AM2's links.
Link 1 - Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce overwhelmingly support the trams but have not seen fit to invest in them.
Link 2 - About 80% of students at Telford College and employees of Scottish Gas in Granton would use the trams, roughly half would give up their cars to do so. What are the other half going to do ? Leave them parked somewhere along the tram route on Edinburgh's streets ?
If the tram fares are similar to those in Manchester most of these would continue to take their car all the way to their destination.

51

The true Seeker of the Truth,

at home... 18/11/2007 09:50:10

Roll on an election! Unionist numpties obliterated. BTW, this guy Joe is taking longer to leave than michelle moan ffs...

52

elite ernie,

embra 18/11/2007 09:59:03

Public support for the universities is diminishing with each and every Labour attack on the SNPs management of the funding bid.Scrutiny should start in the first instance thro the examination of the operation of Scottish Funding Council whose members were put in place by Labour.....then again, Jack and Nicol never bothered too much about public accountability about such issues as the Holyrood overspend.It was the current chair of the Funding Council who was charged with producing the public procurement document which accompanied the aftermath of the Holyrood debacle.Time for university principals to earn their corn and manage

53

JimC,

18/11/2007 10:08:20

#Opposition politicians are furious that the higher education sector received only half the money it asked for#

Since when did universities expect to get every penny they asked for? What about the police, did they get what they asked for - thought not. Wendy the mouth has turned into a poor imitation of McConnell, in fact she aint fit to shine his shoes and as for the lib-dems well they could get a piece at any door as ma Ma used to say.

54

elite ernie,

embra 18/11/2007 10:11:42

auld twa -49 -very good point -we would all like to see the wish list

55

allan58,

edinburgh 18/11/2007 10:11:55

Couldn't have put it better myself #58! If people like AM2 have to rely on "surveys" to "prove" their point then all I can say is that this casts serious doubt on their judgememt - especially when surveys are loaded to produce the "right" result!

Needless to say, the Chamber of Commerce & Glaswegians like AM2 will NOT of course be paying for the inevitable huge cost over runs.

It's probably a good bet that the people "surveyed" already USE public transport anyway which really invalidates the car use argument from the start!

Even though I live on its proposed route, it will be of no benefit to me & never will. What does worry me are 2 things (1) how many buses will be withdrawn in order to force people to use the tram (2) The awful prospect that First or Stagecoach will be running (ruining?) the service!

I have no doubt that fares will be so high in order to recoup the inevitable huge financial losses on this project that option (1) will certainly be implemented on order to give people no choice. Of course, that could just compel them to use their cars.........!!!
While the SNP may have been forced to "commit" to this nonsense, I believe, that as the necessary act has been ratified by Parliament,they can freeze the budget or, withdraw funding WITHOUT further Parliamentary debate. Might be the "Death of a thousand cuts" but,it's better than having another years late & grossly over budget white elephant foisted on us!

Wonder if they could refuse to fund the Weegie Commonwealth Games in order to fund the universiities?

56

elite ernie,

embra 18/11/2007 10:19:10

There is currently a perfectly good bus service on the tram route except that we now experience chaos as Leith walk is the subject of archeological explorations for service pipes

57

WL,

livingston 18/11/2007 10:21:39

Probably the universities expected funding of half what they would ask. That is why they asked for 526 million. So they get what they want.

58

Just_Me,

moray 18/11/2007 10:27:04

From Nevyn Post No 12

"If Labour are suicidal enough to vote to undermine the Council Tax Freeze then they will have learned nothing from the Scottish elections except how to go about losing the next one."

I think this quote pretty well sums up the state of affairs from whatever political persausion you follow!

I really dont understand labours negativity about the SNP. If SNP are really so bad they will be voted out rather sharpish in 3.5 yrs!

59

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News Room 18/11/2007 10:28:52

"Cash Starved"

Who writes this tripe? They will have to make do - just like everyone else! Education, like health, is a sink with no plug, we could put the whole of the GDP in there, and still more would be needed. There has to be a sensible limit, which of course is something which Wendy can't comprehend.

Yours etc

Angus Whitton

60

JimC,

18/11/2007 10:35:02

#54
The Nats have cut the pensioners heating allowance in real terms. The previous administration started to put central heating into pensioners houses but this government has cut this.

Get your facts right, all tenants of social landlords must by 2012 have their houses brought up to a minimum standard, this is the responsibility of local government and includes central heating systems that are energy efficient well insulated and has the new required thickness of loft insulation and cavity wall insulation. As for pensioners heating allowance this is a matter reserved by Westminster.

61

Just_Me,

moray 18/11/2007 10:44:44

AM2

Trams may have their benefits, but are they really important enough to be a reality yet in scotland.

You a right about the budget figures. No one can really dispute that the SNP have roughly the same on paper to play with as there was on paper before they got into power give and take historical funds, etc.

In reality though, I think many would dispute the idea that labour would have the same figures to play with if they won!

62

Publius,

Girvan for the weekend 18/11/2007 10:52:20

#36 Spiderman

You are on the right tracks but there are two different strategies in your post.
One strategy is rationalisation. There is scope for rationalisation. About half of university expenditure is on central services (principal's office, corporate matters such as PR, catering, clearning, library, IT etc) so mergers should reduce operating costs.
The second strategy is to accept that there are two types of university - research intensive and teaching/training intensive. The first type would be set free to set their own tuition fees but would no longer receive state for funding for teaching. The second type would have no fees and would be funded direclty by the state.
I think we need to choose between the two strategies and then live with the consequences of our choice.

63

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 10:52:22

73

"You a right about the budget figures. No one can really dispute that the SNP have roughly the same on paper to play with as there was on paper before they got into power give and take historical funds, etc."

According to who? what source gave you this idea? and dont give us another UK govt source for christ sake. In real terms by any mathematical measurement govt funds to Scotland have been cut.

64

Miss H,

18/11/2007 10:54:21

Oh dear, you couldn't make it up could you?

Labour want to block the council tax freeze. That is the beginning and end of it. They don't give two hoots about university funding. The SNP has significantly increased funding for the HE sector beyond what was allocated by the previous administration, so there is no actual issue here.

Labour have so lost it - even more than I had realised. How mad must they be to want to block the council tax freeze? The mentality is just unbelievable. Do they seriously think people will 'come home' to Labour because Labour prevents the SNP freezing council tax?

There is no way that the Tories will line up behind Labour on this, they are not that stupid. I don't believe the Lib Dems are either.

65

SouthernSkye,

Bonnie Bonn 18/11/2007 10:57:58

Radio 4 news this morning.
Gordon Brown has set up several more Quangos which now means the cost of NL Quangos is TWO THOUSAND POUNDS per annum per tax payer in the UK.
2000 GBP (Gordon Browns Pounds !!!!!).
Whatever the SNP budget contains it can NEVER be as ludicrous as this !

66

Fat Freddys Cat,

18/11/2007 10:59:07

Any Comment on the MA(tthew) MA(rr) story AM2?

(snigger)

67

Miss H,

18/11/2007 10:59:44

54

You are a liar. Engage in debate if you choose but don't tell bare faced lies, it's pathetic.

68

elite ernie,

embra 18/11/2007 11:00:27

what did you suggest at the time,Nicol ???

draft Budget 2007 - 08
Scottish Executive Draft Budget 2007-08. ... Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council Scottish Enterprise Highlands & Islands Enterprise ...
www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/09/05131713 - 18k

69

beech hedge,

Blairgowrie 18/11/2007 11:05:46

Labour have cut the pensioners heating allowance every year since it was introduced by not increasing it by at least the rate of inflation.they have also fiddled the inflation rate downwards to keep pensions low so please no more tripe from you unionist lot.

70

James,

Dundee 18/11/2007 11:11:40

#54 Labour Refugee from East Lothian

There are lies, damned lies, and East Lothian Labour lies.....

71

allan58,

edinburgh 18/11/2007 11:20:02

#69. Are you for real AM2. Spouting personal opinion & relying on loaded surveys?Wow man!! Just wow!
Presumably if a survey was published which DIDN'T give the result you wanted, youd then be on this page decrying it?

Ever considered a job in politics? no need for reason or commen sense there. mind you, you're probably OVER qualified!

Don't give up your day job.Unless, your comedy turns here ARE your day job!

72

Just_Me,

moray 18/11/2007 11:25:39

75 Logon no.6 and counting.

Thats from AM2's figures. You can look back at his posts to see the source, which will undoubtedly be pro- unionist, however you have to remember that these are on paper figures!

They are most probably true, give or take a few million, but a million here or there is irrelevant in this size of sum!

I think you may have overlooked the point I was making though. On paper figures really mean nothing, possibly a guide at most but the only figures that actually count are the true budget figures!

I believe the true budget to scotland would have been far greater if labour had won the last election, and I doubt if even a pro-unionist could disagree!
The actual budget is the only figures that really have a relevance.

73

inoui,

Bordeaux 18/11/2007 11:32:29

Same 'ol, same 'ol. The brown puppets are desperately trying to disrupt.

74

Guga II,

Rockall 18/11/2007 11:38:16

#87 AM Squared. Still posting on your employers time, I see. And still using your employers database for all your little cut and paste jobs.

Does the Hootsmon employ you as a unionist troll, or is it that you really can't help yourself?

75

Pavla,

Irvine 18/11/2007 11:45:55

If this article has credibility then it's nothing to do with educational funding but really the continuing attempt by the unionist parties to destabilise a freely elected government.If this was happening in my family's home country in Eastern Europe then the international monitoring bodies including Westminster would be expressing concerns but because it's" the good ole U.K" then it must be o.k. I really do fear that we are seeing a concerted effort to remove a democratically elected government by the establishment in the U.K. who have a different agenda.I think like my family had to do before in Prague we too will be in the Royal Mile trying to show solidarity with a government advocating radical change.

76

Farmernot,

up tae ma oxters in glaur 18/11/2007 11:50:25

The article begins "Labour leads".......eh no it doesn't............Eck does

77

ochone, ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 18/11/2007 11:53:03

AM2, 87, that's big of you, yet you were scared to back track yesterday, to answer my questions of the day before, even though i offered to save you the bother by repeating them and you won't even back track to Fat Freddys Cat's question of today.

Picking and choosing what questions to answer and not doing a good or honest job of that either.

You havn't even commented on the article itself, as for me i think it's a bit rich that a party who are skint should be talking about finance at all.

By the way AM2 my offer still stands and as a taster here is one of those questions, which political party do you support?

Over to you.

78

Derick fae Yell,

The Hoose 18/11/2007 11:58:37

9 - for once I agree with AM2. The Vanity Tram, while I still deeply disapprove it, has been authorised by a majority in Parliament. It's underway - end of story.

Labour have nothing to offer but relentless negativity (and foul mouthed drunken abuse). For God's sake don't let them play with matches!!

79

Hugo, Ayrshire,

18/11/2007 11:59:19

The headline implies a done deal between the opposition Parties.

Reading the article shows that they are still at the consideration stage.

The horse trading continues.

80

The Strategist,

18/11/2007 12:04:10

Universities are the proverbial bottomless pit when it comes to funding and Labour are demonstrating some naivety by simply accepting what they say and of course being politically opportunistic at the same time.

This is an opportunity to undertake an assessment into what size of university system Scotland actually needs and how it should operate.

I can't help but think that there's a chance here to come up with a system that's a lot more effective and better value for probably a lot less money.

We shouldn't shy away from doing this.

81

A Better Way,

18/11/2007 12:09:24

Why the hell are you lot even giving AM2 the opportunity of an audience.

What he wont include is the new higher ongoing costs of maintaining the repayment for all of the LibDem/New Labour PPI/PFI 22 billion quid debt that these balloons have left Scotland with. They didnt have a budget problem because they did the School Buildings, Hospital Buildings, New Prisons on the never never. These Numpties sold our bairns future and used the new debt to give money back to their London Masters. What you should be asking is why they were allowed to raise the debt without fully informing Parliament of the increasing levels of interest payments. Thats exactly what Alex Salmond was referring to when he mentioned the 250 million blackhole they hadnt funded out of their confidence they would be returned into office and could just bury it.


82

ochone, ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 18/11/2007 12:16:14

98, A Beter Way, relax, we all know full well about AM2, the one who likes to ask questions, ignores answers and can't answer any himself.

Sometimes it fun to send him/scurrying back in their hole, besides the more garbage he spouts the more is shows what unionists are rally like.

83

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 12:17:09

86

If the figures were true or accurate then AM2 would have no reason to post them. He doesnt post these figures and stats for debate but only to wind up hence they have to be inaccurate in order to stir the pot. Take em at face value if you wish its your credibility at stake not mine.

84

A Better Way,

18/11/2007 12:22:12

Scotlands Universities are playing a very dangerous game here. If they are using the London Controlled Unionists to undermine the SNP Government then the very thought of them entering into playing politics could result in them being subject to the Tory call for a culling of the excess higher learning centres that are merely catering for overseas markets.

For a country of our size to have so many costly universities is ridiculous to say the least. They are becoming seen as an abonomation in a country that produces so many young people that cant even do the three r's. Lets face it if they dont know them they are going to struggle to even be able to fill out dole registration. Its time to rationalise and move our resources into key areas.

The LibDums and London New Labour are playing a very dangerous game that to be quite honest they cannot win, without feeling the rath of the Scottish People. They are not interested in the slightest of the interests of the Scottish People and Wendy was merely appointed to run a spoiling type of campaign to hurt the Scottish People.

85

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 12:22:26

84

That post is just so you. worthless irrelevant inaccurate pointless and there only to annoy not to debate. You even shoot down your own points the ones your are pretending to make.
Again!

86

whitegold,

Shire 18/11/2007 12:23:42

AM2 wrote:
"Even if you factor in the £490m for the Edinburgh trams, John Swinney’s efficiency savings of £400m (his figure) all but offset them and leave the SNP with £57m more than they expected."

What kind of nonsense is this? Your statement beggars rational belief, and I just noticed you are repeating this illogical tripe over all the boards.

There is no extra £400 million - stop either ignorantly or deliberately misleading people.

Efficiency savings simply mean you can put less money into some public services and they will run just as well. THERE IS NO EXTRA £400 million.

Your repeated posts clearly infer an extra £400 million.

That is dishonest. The cost of trams means there is less effective money for other things. It is called simple arithmetic. You might be blaming the SNP for not being a spend, spend, spend party - but really no-one believes you can spend your way out of things anymore. That mentality died with marxism.

87

thesmallerhalf,

18/11/2007 12:24:21

Great entertainment reading the comments. As always a fine mixture of personal attacks, denigrations and a wonderful ability to peddle pet theories and wallow in perceived injustices without any reference to fact or modern realities. Not to mention the endless provision of statistics and "evidence" while contempuously dismissing anything that might support a contrary viewpoint.

And it's this propensity for indulging in "civil war" that has contributed to Scotland's difficult political history. I see nothing here that suggests that we are any more capable now to unite in Scotland's best interests than our ancestors were in the 12th, 13th, 17th and 18th centuries.

88

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 12:24:29

101

There hasnt been enough money printed to stop the Universities for asking for more. The more they get the more they will spend and the more they will ask for. They will always find a use for more money especially if they dont have to earn it themselves.

89

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 12:25:56

104

Then why dont you present the facts as you perceive them and we will go from there.

90

A Better Way,

18/11/2007 12:30:43

Have a read at the latest article about Broons chaotic Government that appears to not know whether their arse was punched or kicked. It certainly looks like there is going to be a collapse there. Broon sounds like he is going to get a wee room to himself with lovely cushioning all over the walls and floors.

And these Unionists want us to remain part of this loony farm. IT IS TIME!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=...

91

druidh,

18/11/2007 12:37:27

Can we just skip all of this and get to another election please?

92

whitegold,

Shire 18/11/2007 12:45:19

AM2 - there is no extra £400 million.

The efficiency savings are already part of the budget calculation:

"SNP - costed spending would amount to £2.538bn, while there would be £1.34bn in efficiency savings and £1.33bn from switching existed spending, making £1.821bn available for uncosted spending"

You are saying that the SNP has an extra £400 million to play with on top of other budget considerations. That isn't how budget calculations work. Public-sector efficiency savings help "balance the books". There is no extra £400 million.

93

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 18/11/2007 12:45:21

Neu Leiber is still suffering from spasms after their election defeat. One reason for them not being able to behave rationally is that they are disconnected from the trough. However another reason is more fatal for them; the SNP is making the possibility of Neu Leiber getting re-elected impossible.

In an election what can they offer? Nothing. They have no clothes at all. The consequence is that they react emotively. Sensing that they utterly defeated as a political force they are becoming increasingly hysterical. Feigning indignation is the pathology of a loser.

How long will it take the Libs to realise that they are thirled to losers? Many of their supporters care a lot about good government and yet here they are behaving like wreckers; Neu Leiber's hench-men. They had an opportunity to argue for a federal position but have backed the wrong horse. Nichol is a pathetic puppet figure. His pact with Neu Leiber will mean the end of his leadership because a new direction will be required and will be associated directly with all that is wrong for their party which continues to languish in the Scottish polls. They have lost many voters forever and their reputation is woeful now. Neu Leiber's whirlwind denial campaign has sucked Nichol in and when it runs out of steam he'll be lying among the debris waiting to get cleaned away.

Neu Leiber are very afraid. A council tax freeze is an absolute election winner and they know it. They'll kick and scream but they just can't do anything about it and that impotent position is clear in their rantings and in the obnoxious scribblings of their sycophants in the press.

Next thing is to get rid of all the Neu-Leiber place-men (they know their days are numbered) in higher education and put in those who will perform with excellence. That is how a country should be run. I note that Herr Breun has set-up some more quangoes in England. Haven't you noticed the major differences between the two countries political c

94

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 12:46:40

107 AM2

I wouldnt presume to claim I could discredit you better than you discredit yourself.
No your doing a fine enough job all on your own.

Where have you managed to include the SNP versions or views? I see what everybody else sees only your interpretation of the SNPs versions and views.

95

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 12:54:05

Here is what the SNP actually think of the Scottish funding from London.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=1600...

96

pone300,

18/11/2007 12:58:39

#113
Well said, but I have no sympathy for the LIbDems. They could have had coalition government with the SNP and itwas obvious that Alex Salmond was prepared to sacrifice a referendum on independence as it wasn't going to happen otherwise in any case. The LibDems 'chose' opposition because the message from London was don't legitimise an SNP government. Well they are paying for it now. Who's going to vote LibDem infuture when all it can lead to is a Labour/Libdem coalition.
The SNP are in a win/win situation - they've had long enough to show just how different this country could be and what it's like to have a proper government acting in our interests and not that of London. If they went out now then their most important impact would already be done.

97

A Better Way,

18/11/2007 12:58:49

Have a ganders at the latest you gov poll.It appears that Broon is really starting to crack and show his lack of spine. 55% of Voters think he is not a very good leader, and 54% think he is incapable of Uniting the Country.

I think he will be retiring to Kircaldy very soon. Perhaps its time to realise that just because certain pollies were second in charge, it doesnt mean they are capable of leading a Government. The man was never elected by the people of all the Countries within the Islands. He is there by default and its time for him to go after a few months. I wouldnt be surprised if the Security Services are told to plant a few new bombs to take peoples minds of his weak government. Lets not forget this man has the authority to press the nuclear missiles button. Might be time for a padded cell by the sound of things.

http://www.yougov.com/archives/pdf/DT%20toplines%20261007...

98

mr angry,

ayrshire 18/11/2007 13:08:54

#108 you are tediously boring, go away please

99

pone300,

18/11/2007 13:10:48

"Joe - next train out" - another broken Labour promise.

100

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 13:16:46

119 It was a train of thought. Hence he is still waiting

101

pone300,

18/11/2007 13:26:03

#121
LOL

102

pone300,

18/11/2007 13:26:14

or en 120

103

pone300,

18/11/2007 13:26:23

or even 120

104

whitegold,

Shire 18/11/2007 13:38:29

#124AM2

I thought I'd already made it clear in #112.

105

jim b,

18/11/2007 13:40:29

Broken promises ,pot calling kettle black from labour is it not.

106

karin m,

18/11/2007 13:47:15

For all those who wonder what the hell AM2 is talking about its the settlemnt the snp gvernment got from westminster this is how it is worked out.

As part of the UK Spending Review process, the Scottish Government receives a financial settlement, just as all other UK Government Departments do. The UK Departments submit bids to HM Treasury setting out what they think they need in the way of additional money for the Spending Review period (2008-2011) and end up with a settlement that is based upon those needs. However, the Scottish settlement is calculated in its most basic sense, as a 10% share of the increases that the UK Department’s receive (which is designed to reflect the fact that the Scottish population is approximately 10% of the English population).

The reason for the for the argument between the snp and unionists is due to HM Treasury reducing the starting budget figures for the Scottish Government that they then added the Spending Review settlement to. This meant that the Scottish Governments final Spending Review settlement was reduced by approximately £340million per year.

In terms of calculating growth rates, it is simply a case of taking the budget figure for the current year (2007-08); working out the difference between it and the following year (2008-09); and then dividing the difference by the original budget figure for the current year (2007-08). For example, the difference between this year’s budget of £25.9billion and next year’s budget of £27.1billion is £1.2billion. And if you then divide that by the current year budget (£1.2bn/£25.9bn) equals approximately 0.46 or 4.6%.

107

karin m,

18/11/2007 13:47:44

hope that cleared it up for you all.

108

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 13:50:12

125

The fact that it is you presenting the figures undermines them without my help.

The Barnett formula is calculated to give Scotland a % of funding based on changes made in English funding taken on population differencial. The fact that this year for the very first time the funding will be lower than the expected funds using the calculation of the Barnett formula is a clear and consise mathematical decrease in funding.
In other words the % increase for England is greater than the equivilant % increase for Scotland when in fact is should be the same in spite of the greater increase in oil revenue due to the high price in oil.
Basically what we are seeing is Labour cutting off its own nose to spite its face and you following the Labour party line in everything you post.
It would be wonderful to gain Independence just to read your posts after the event and see how much the rhetoric changes with the party political line.

109

karin m,

18/11/2007 13:52:13

AM2 in case you are unclear reduced means CUT.

110

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 13:52:25

128

Like I said a mathematical decreace in real terms.

111

karin m,

18/11/2007 14:02:38

132 Think he will come back with an answer?

112

roan dddd,

glasgow 18/11/2007 14:06:21

Am2

Just how f** sad are you with your 'references'. Why dont you get a f** job or better still a bird

113

karin m,

18/11/2007 14:06:23

56 george i agree lets have a boycott of all the online papers in fact even the offline ones on st andrews day.

114

kimba,

18/11/2007 14:10:43

Is this the start of cross party co-operation to defeat the snp!

115

karin m,

18/11/2007 14:14:38

136 err no kimba its the scotsman making up stories cos their circulation figures are in freefall.

116

Charles Lamb,

18/11/2007 14:14:58

Calling AM2 and karin m.

Please answer following questions:

How much money was Scotland allocated under the CSR for each fo 2008/009; 2009/10; 2010/11?

How much did it receive by agreement to retain past underspend?

In the run up to the election how much did SNP say they needed from CSR in order to deliver their pledges?


These are simpe questions for which there should be simple answers.

Once we have them - and only then - should we discuss impact of baselines and inflation.

117

jim b,

18/11/2007 14:17:04

cash starved universities is this just recent or have labour and the libs forgotten who was in before the snp

118

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 14:21:56

133 Karin M.

No dont be daft he will come back with something completely irrelevant and worthless.

There is a fair chance that the post at 138 is actually AM2 asking questions to himself that he has prepared answers for. Its one of his favourite little games. Did you know he also has a researcher maybe even more than one? He gave the game away one day when he was posting to Miss H.

119

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 14:23:34

133 Karin M

Ref 140 141

Dont say your werent warned.

120

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 14:24:23

144

I really wish I was lying.

121

kimba,

18/11/2007 14:29:49

karinm,Mmm,well there's no smoke without fire!

122

BAM2,

18/11/2007 14:30:01

Little known Wendy Alexander Fact: It takes a team of 9 men continually employed. To apply her lipstick. They start at one end and by the time it takes them to finish they need to restart other side of chasm.

Hay AM2! Still defending the indefensible and Subverting debate?

AM2 should apply for one of the vacancies. General field smoke himself.

Marr gets sacked for saying cant, but Alexander gets promoted in the labour ranks despite leaving in disgrace in 2001 from industry portfolio........

123

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 14:30:34

143

Really yet its you that uses govt figures and stats as evidence.
How clueless is that?

124

Booger,

Fifer 18/11/2007 14:33:48
125

swbf,

Argyll 18/11/2007 14:34:45

No Budget gives all things to everyone,
Especially in a tight funding review.
Now Im not surprised that the LAb numptie and the Lib dums would try to put a halt on the budget process, destabilize the scottish economy, trash the council tax freeze, all for the sake of Making Salmond and co look bad. Its all their collective/defective gray matter can come up with.

I am surprised however that the Tory party are willing to jeopardise the scottish economy by
1. holding up the budget process
2. creating a potential vote of no confidence that would rock the scottish economy further.
3. Supporting the Labour Party in the first place.

We desperately need to look at the numbers of univerities in this country and the way they are run.
Not take monies from council services to prop up fat university cats who spend a great deal of time drinking coffee instead of looking at better efficiency savings. I know I was one of them.

126

Billy Chapman,

Mauchline 18/11/2007 14:35:51

147 Kimba

was it you who mentioned on a thread yesterday (post . 153 I think) that there would be a council tax freeze in England? Could you explain further please?

127

whitegold,

Shire 18/11/2007 14:39:16

AM2 wrote
"Fine. You're clueless. Enough said. I'll leave it there."

I'm quite prepared to admit I might be wrong about efficiency savings, but apparently you are not.

I've explained clearly how I see efficiency savings work. They are there to 'balance the budget'. You plan 'overspending' in certain areas, but claim efficiency savings to balance this out. In other words they are essentially part of the budget. Cash released simply referring to them balancing another part of the budget.

Now unlike your good self AM2 I'm more interested in TRUTH than running down the snp, or any other party. If I am wrong then please point out exactly where.

That has always been my understanding of efficiency savings. This seems supported by my quote - incidently from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6583913.stm

"SNP - costed spending would amount to £2.538bn, while there would be £1.34bn in efficiency savings and £1.33bn from switching existed spending, making £1.821bn available for uncosted spending."

If my understanding is correct - and you have stated nothing or shown anything to make me consider my understanding is wrong - then your comments in 17 are completely inaccurate - since you see 'efficiency savings' as not part of the budget at all, but extra money that can be spent on, oh lets say, trams.

Calling me clueless for simply pointing out the truth (AFAIK) is somewhat silly.

You seem more interested in slagging off the snp, whether your statements are accurate or not. Whether they are true or not.

128

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 14:41:15

Labour - why not save some cash by not starting illegal wars?

129

karin m,

18/11/2007 14:43:49

140 AM2 I have to tell you that the peice i posted at 128 was a simple explanation i received from the government in an email. So if you have a problem with what i posted i suggest you take it up with one Mr alex salmond. (first minister of scotland dont ya know). I just added the words unionist and snp government. So AM2 now thinks he knows the figures better than the government. How big is your ego by the way.

130

elite ernie,

embra 18/11/2007 14:44:10

AM2 give us your analysis of the Holyrood debacle and the extraordinary stewardship of Donald et al
Take your time and dont patch chunks from public procurement-it is also a work of fiction

131

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 14:44:13

#56 "the habit of the Unionist media..."

These media aren't Unionist as such, they don't exist to promote Unionism (whatever that may be). If you view the world in such a simplistic way, then you are probably a bit mental

132

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 14:45:56

It's time for those who care about Scotland to stop talking pish and start thinking big.

133

kimba,

18/11/2007 14:46:04

153. I live in the borough of Stockton-on-tees,in the may elections we voted in a "RAINBOW COUNCIL" the first in England I believe,as a result of all parties working together we will have a council tax freeze next year.

134

karin m,

18/11/2007 14:46:43

156 100 percent over inflated i would say give or take 2.5 percent in real terms hehehehe

135

karin m,

18/11/2007 14:49:56

AM2 dont ya feel a bit of a wally now that you said and i quote that alex salmonds email was

"Hold on a minute! 1.8%? Why are you agreeing with Labour?"

shurely shome mishtake.

136

karin m,

18/11/2007 14:51:18

I love our government they answer every email i send them so thoughtfull and nice. Not like nasty labour government that didnt reply.

137

karin m,

18/11/2007 14:52:10

Im still laughing at AM2 hahahahaha

138

Charles Lamb,

18/11/2007 14:52:24

AM2

Can you provide a complete answer to my third question.

How much ( i.e. total amount to nearest 100 miilion) did SNP say they required from CSR for each of years 08/09; 09/10; and 10/11 to fund their pledges and did this include past underspends?

I could ask karin m and other nationalist supporters but know from experience they either cannot or will not give a simple and direct answer.

139

Billy Chapman,

at Kirkton Jean's bit 18/11/2007 14:52:40

160 Kimba re 153

Good grief! Why are you writing to me? I just bet my pal Jean here an empty my autographed Christopher Biggins autobiography that you are such a moron you would fall for this, yet again, and write back to me.

Jean says your IQ is similar to that of ear wax, but that your fat content is much higher. Jean says you are so fat that you make Free Willy look like a wee tic tac. Jean says you are so bloated that the last time you got lifted it was for loitering on three street corners at the same time.

We think you are a total disgrace. But we do enjoy a good laugh at you. Don’t write back in case people think we know you. Cheers, Kirkton Jean with one of the Chapman Billies

140

karin m,

18/11/2007 14:54:29

AM2 come on admit it you look like a bit of an egomaniac now.

141

karin m,

18/11/2007 14:55:28

and am2 charles isnae fooling anybody we know its you.

142

karin m,

18/11/2007 14:56:26

right had my laugh for the day off for a whiley.

143

Nezavisamaya Shotlandia,

Perth 18/11/2007 15:00:56

Dr Brian Lang, principal of St Andrews University is the most bitter uber Unionist i have ever met, no surprise the the Scotsman went straight to him for a quote

144

kimba,

18/11/2007 15:03:57

TELL JEAN SHE HAS A WARPED SENSE OF HUMOUR, PLEASE PHONE THE NEAREST PHSYCHE WARD AND GET YOURSELVES ADMITTED!

145

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 15:04:34

157

If ye want AM2 to answer your questions you better post them as Charles Lamb he may even forget that Charles Lamb is supposed to be himself.

146

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 15:06:02

165

It was approx 1.4bn give or take a shekel or 2.

147

kimba,

18/11/2007 15:06:07

171,POOR SNOTLAND OUT OF THE EURO CUP AGAIN!!!

148

BAM2,

18/11/2007 15:07:53

#174 - I though you were allegedly proud of your scottish ancestry? Apparently not.

149

Charles Lamb,

18/11/2007 15:11:51

charles isnae fooling anybody we know its you.karin m.

Quite untrue. Why won't you answer the simple question I am asking?

150

Billy Chapman,

at Kirkton Jean's bit 18/11/2007 15:14:59

171 Which part of "do not write to me in case people think we know you" did you not get you porcine imbecile? My pal Jean has just fallen off her chair laughing at you.

175 And now they turn on each other. You couldn't make it up. Begone moronic trolls say the cast of Tam o' Shanter (a tale), begone!

151

jonny gers,

glasgow 18/11/2007 15:16:01

hah hah ha quality

152

James,

Dundee 18/11/2007 15:23:19

#160 You'll be recomending an English Parliament and PR next!

#158 &c
Agree it's time however are the popular press are most certainly not on the side of the Nationalists

Ultra or Not!


In the meantime keep th black saltire flying in NS.

153

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 15:25:07

Charles LAM2?

154

,

18/11/2007 15:25:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1153081, Article id was mapped to record!
155

Col. Blimp IV*,

18/11/2007 15:25:45

#168. karin m

You could try giving Charles the FM's e- mail address.

And AM2 a bottle of Hemlock.

156

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 15:32:14

Charles LAM2 (nice one Meths)

The SNP reckon the Govt will give Scotland 1.5% above inflation which is below the UK average of 1.9% so if you have a look through yer crystal ball and tell us what the inflation figures will be then we might be able to come up with some figures for you as well. As to what the SNP reckon they will need then why not the same 1.9% UK average?
or is that just too much to ask from a Labour Government with a so called Scotsman in charge?

157

Sanny,

Portugal for the winter 18/11/2007 15:39:37

First AM2: I think most regular posters know that this person is a Troll and a propagandist for the Unionists. I personally believe that this Propaganda activity is in fact his full time job. I also note , as have others that he seems to have prior knowledge of articles to be published in this rag. Mostly when I see “AM2” It think another load of Canine, Equine of Bovine(you choose)excrement on its way and then I pass on to study the opinion of others who may have a pertinent point of view.


Returning to the subject of the article. University funding: - We need to know just what and who we are funding. Let the Uni’s publish a detailed budget showing how much is required for each subject and its relevance to the community; how many tutors are in each department and what do they cost, then what is the number and cost of the administration staff, etc., etc. The government could then indicate which parts of the budget it is prepared to fund. Perhaps this would concentrate the minds of the Uni hierarchy and encourage them to cut back on bureaucratic administration and non-subjects with no relevance to the real world and lacking in academic content.


The government should also consider the reduction in the number of Uni’s and return much of the vocational education to the Tech colleges and FE Estab’s. Foreign students, i.e. ALL non-Scots students, to pay the full cost of their education.


With the above constraints I think the government might have some surplus funds to spend on the most important part of education; Primary Education. If we don’t get that right the rest is a waste of time. It is time the Uni’s learned there is no such thing as a free lunch! Somebody has to pay.


Moving on to the antics of Wendy, in her Peter Pan world. I keep hearing that she is something of an egghead – has two degrees I believe, (Makes our Uni output look decidedly dodgy) can she really be so stupid to challenge the freezing of the Counci

158

Sanny,

Portugal for the winter 18/11/2007 15:40:14

To answer a question raised question raised by other posters. It is my understanding that if the budget fails there could be a vote of no-confidence in the Government. However if the Government falls then, because the Parliament has a fixed term, an election is not required but the other parties can form an alternative government. If there is a better opinion I am happy to stand corrected.

159

kimba,

18/11/2007 15:44:45

176, NOT WHEN MY ENGLISH HERITAGE IS BEING TRASHED BY SOME IN SCOTLAND,I was born and bred in England,my dad chose to marry an English girl and to make his life in England,he always says "why cannae we live together as one nation,we're wee enough already"

160

Billy Chapman,

at Kirkton Jean's bit 18/11/2007 15:50:27

189

I think she meant born and inbred

161

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 15:50:59

188

Wishful thinking Sanny just wishful thinking.

162

Billy Chapman,

at Kirkton Jean's bit 18/11/2007 15:51:43

Thats 10 times you have fallen for this you know. Ponder that when you are shaving you fat hairy cleavage.

163

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 15:53:33

186

I do believe the SNP were thinking in terms of the UK average which would be between 1.8 and 1.9bn not the 1.4 to 1.5 GB is giving us cos we dared to vote Labour out of power. He appears almost as petty as yourself.

164

kimba,

18/11/2007 15:54:35

178. stupid trog!

165

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 15:54:42

186

And what was your figure for inflation and why?

166

Neil Thomas,

18/11/2007 15:55:31

Methspaña.

I wonder if you would let us know if indeed the opposition is farting against thunder.

Your friend Neil Thomas.

167

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 15:56:47

196. Neil Thomas / 3:55pm 18 Nov 2007

Methspaña.

"I wonder if you would let us know if indeed the opposition is farting against thunder. Your friend Neil Thomas."

Glad to be of some assistance here Neil. Yes...they are indeed farting against thunder.

168

Neil Thomas,

18/11/2007 15:57:52

#197 Methspaña

Thanks Meths.

169

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 15:58:50

186

You may find this interesting reading it might help clear up your confusion though I doubt you are even capable of admitting it or are you just not allowed to?

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/iain_macwhirter/2007/...

170

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 15:58:50

198 Neil Thomas

No problems stranger.

171

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 15:59:15

(What a sleekit way to get the 200)

172

kimba,

18/11/2007 16:02:34

190, LOL, you are so full of bile it's laughable. poor Scotland, how it will ever succeed with people like you,god only knows!

173

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 16:05:39

202 Kimba

Don't take offence kimba. If you check you'll discover that most of the Royals were in-bred. You are therefore in good company.


....cue theme from Deliverance....

174

kimba,

18/11/2007 16:08:32

Ah meths, wondered when you would stick your oar in!

175

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 16:09:11

...then again...this is also inbreeding...

http://tinyurl.com/gnme7

176

Duncan Drouthy,

Next Door 18/11/2007 16:09:15

202

Kimba - I must say, although I don't agree with you, I do admire your determination and bravery. You keep batttling on here despite the rudeness. Well done!

177

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 16:15:09

AM2

And yet further have a wee lookie at this document with particular attention to passage 14.

www.sfc.ac.uk/about/new_about_council_papers/about_papers...

178

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 16:15:15

#170 NS, Perth.
Never a truer word spoken.

#113
A lot of truth there also.

I was born and brought up in St.Andrews, seen a lot of political movement in the process. See my earlier posts numbers 31 & 32.

But cash strapped. That's the biggest joke of all. The University of St.Andrews may be an employer in our town but they still refuse to do anything of any great benefit to it's hard working population.

They own a great deal of the surroundfing countryside and most of the older buildings, recently selling their Hamilton Hall(previously a hotel) for £20 million to an American consortium. Which in turn will be expensive (around 5million each) apartments for golf professionals and millionaires while our town has no affordable housing for ordinary working families nor any readily available council housing.
So let's hope that we will see a change and perhaps a few more SNP voters.

180

Duncan Drouthy,

Next Door 18/11/2007 16:26:42

175 Don't take this buffoon's cheek Kimba

181

Duncan Drouthy,

Next Door 18/11/2007 16:27:13

211 - I smell a troll Kimba. Have at him

182

kimba,

18/11/2007 16:28:58

Anyway, England are back in with a chance,now we all know that all the tartan taliban will be croatian supporters on wednesday night,but we don't care, when you have 50 million plus supporting you,what does a couple of million matter,and we always have the Scottish raj in westminster,lol!

183

whitegold,

Shire 18/11/2007 16:29:50

Quote from the Herald:

"Mr Swinney also raised his planned public-sector efficiency savings from 1.5% to 2% to balance the books and left nothing in the government's reserves for contingencies."

http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.1833...

As you can see efficiency savings 'balance the books' over the 3 year period - which is precisely the point I'm making.

Will you now admit you were wrong AM2?

If I am wrong please show me, but as far as I can see your comments in #17 which you have repeated on several boards are simply & completely wrong:
"Even if you factor in the £490m for the Edinburgh trams, John Swinney’s efficiency savings of £400m (his figure) all but offset them and leave the SNP with £57m more than they expected".

The £490 for trams is a real loss & not offset by efficiency savings.

184

Duncan Drouthy,

Next Door 18/11/2007 16:32:08

215 I for one will not be supporting Croatia

185

NorT,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 16:39:10

Universities and students have been too much money for far too long. It is about time it was spread around and freezing the council tax benefits a lot more people. As for the Lib Dems and Labour - they still can't get over the fatc that the people of Scotland rejected them.

186

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 18/11/2007 16:46:14

I cannot believe that Labour could be so naive as to attempt to end the council tax freeze proposal to put money to the universities. It would be suicidal. The next election Scenario (1). Disgruntled council tax payer (i.e. those who bother to vote). Labour candidate on the doorstop "We managed to get you paying an extra £200 and put to the universities." Vote winner! - my @R$E.
The SNP win if the Council freeze works and win if Labour scupper it.
The tories will not support Labour's mad-cap suggestion.

Annabel will maybe listen in at the talks but in the tete-a-tete she will have with Alex on the budget, where a little more will go to the police, she will not support it. Scenario (2) Disgruntled council tax payer (i.e. those who bother to vote). Tory candidate on the doorstep "We managed to get you paying an extra £200 and put to the universities." I think not!

187

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 16:46:39

215

I will be supporting England.

188

James at Perth,

18/11/2007 16:49:50

Faced with the reality that the SNP can deliver virtually nothing today, we are promised everything in the Big Tomorrow and entertained with semantics about what "extra police" really meant . The cupboard it seems is bare, except for millions and millions for Gaelic language, forestry, climate change, ferries, sport and historic Scotland. Now that will really leapfrog the country to the top of the economic league table. Much better to hack University and Enterprise investment and increase spending on climate change by around £130m a year.

But I am forgetting about help for very small businesses. That will do the trick. Ireland will be worried about its GDP ranking now. I suppose, if you are a small business in Stornaway making Gaelic signs and wooden windmills you are OK. The economic prosperity of Scotland is thus assured by the SNP. Green Gaelic man is OK. Pilton's impoverished will have to wait. Housing regeneration, they ask the SNP? That would be the Big Tomorrow Department is the reply, and its closed. Yes, we know you don't pay Council Tax if you are impoverished, but you see we have to relieve the good people of Morningside from a crushing tax burden somehow.

So faced with Budget reality and the need make the numbers add up this time, what does the SNP do? It pleases the crowd by foregoing the annual increase in Council Tax to make the settlement tighter still. This Whisnaeme Party prefers to blame Westminster. In reality their election abacus, the one with the two balls missing, has been exposed.

Amusingly in a road to Damascus moment the SNP deploys the tactic used against it at election time and challenges the opposition, "what are you going to cut in order to make the Budget add up?" Clever though to box councils and opposition with increased tax on one side and service cuts on the other. So when the crunch comes of course it whisnaeme

Meantime the economic regeneration of Scotland will have to wait for the

189

whitegold,

Shire 18/11/2007 16:52:46

#221 AM2
So will you now admit that your statement:

"Even if you factor in the £490m for the Edinburgh trams, John Swinney’s efficiency savings of £400m (his figure) all but offset them and leave the SNP with £57m more than they expected".

is wrong. The efficiency savings are already part of the 3 yr budget. The £490 for trams is a real loss & not offset by efficiency savings.

190

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 16:54:21

AM2

Are you going to answer my question at 37?

191

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 16:57:27

219

Passage 14 is the contradiction. You claim your figures and stats are supported by the SNP in fact you claim your whole argument is supported by the SNP and to prove it you posted out of context statements yet here is the proof yer lying yet again!
Now answer the question I posted at 37.

192

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 16:58:51

If you needed any proof that Labour and the Libdems haven't got a clue what to do apart from jump on this sectoral bandwagon, all you had to do was compare Nicol Stephen and Fiona Hyslop's performance today on the (increasingly dire) Politics show. Stephen: Let's give Wendy a break, she's only been in a month, he gushed. What/where would you cut to give extra to the universities? asked Glenn. Stephen: We haven't decided yet, it's a really detailed budget. And by the way, what is Glenn there for - he just completely let him off the hook. Glenn's not up to it. If all the BBC can do in the place of real journalism is go by the Labour-Foulkes-wreck-the SNP-at-all-costs- weekly cribsheet, what is the license for? Don't come crying for more money for Scottish broadcasting when the best you can do is serve up such a barefaced political agenda.
I have to agree with an earlier poster that I don't see how NS is good for the LDs failing fortunes - where is their initiative on constitutional reform? Or is the point of PR this far and no further and then we'll greet if we get our snouts pulled out of the trough. The Lib Dems will suffer for this appalling stint as Labour's henchmen.
On the issue of the universities, they have never had it so good, and if Edinburgh and St Andrews want to go private, let them charge, but then give the public funding that they currently get to the others that want to stay public - they can't have it both ways. I bet they won't. Why should the public fund private institutions? As it stands there are substantial pots of money that Scottish universities can compete (yes, compete) for at UK and EU level, and that's on top of what they get already that they don't have to compete for just to cover their costs. This is just a non-issue.

193

Col. Blimp IV*,

18/11/2007 16:59:21

215

I too will be supporting England.

Watching the Euro championships without a team to support would be like watching horse racing without having a bet, little point to it.

If England fail to qualify, my own favourites
Anyonebutenglandia, will have no competition.

194

Duncan Drouthy,

Next Door 18/11/2007 17:02:17

229 English Voice... re 217

Good grief! Why are you writing to me? I just bet my neighbour Kirkton Jean 1p and some bum fluff you are so stupid you would write to me.

Jean says you must be stupid beyond all human comprehension to fall for this a third time when my name is so obvious.She says you are a waste of flesh. She says you are ridiculous and obnoxious and have the entertainment value of a leech. You are a living emptiness, a meaningless void.

Do not write back to me in case others think we know you. The cast of Tam o' Shanter (A Tale) say begone you minging trog, begone and pollute us no more with your cringing drivel.

Yours, cheerbye etc Jean Kirkton and her Drouthy Neighbour

195

Duncan Drouthy,

Next Door 18/11/2007 17:04:21

I am bored with Kimba and EV.

196

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 17:05:27

I saw Alex shoot himself in the foot last night interviewed before the game. He is passionate about his Country, I'm personally not bothered as I hate football and all it stands for. You would think that a country and it's people can't live without it. Well "The Scotsman" no ALL the media would have us believe that.
Pity about the trams in Edinburgh, living in Fife I'd have rather seen a Forth tunnel helping mine and other businesses.

197

James,

Dundee 18/11/2007 17:07:53

#215

I only watch Scotland, and I care not one jot how England do, so I wont be bothering.

Neutral for England, ecept when they play Alba of course!

198

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/11/2007 17:09:05

When did they start doing degrees in football?

Now did I ever tell you about the time I did Export Management with Language at Napier?

199

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 17:09:10

#226 Servius
Rome wasn't built in a day.

200

kimba,

18/11/2007 17:09:58

Look,cut the bullsh-t, if you really support England we thank you, but please don't post a load of twosh if you don't.

201

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 17:10:29

241 I will be supporting England

202

Duncan Drouthy,

Next Door 18/11/2007 17:11:29

#242 Hoos Poos and Hail

203

kimba,

18/11/2007 17:19:07

242. yep,good for you, as a dedicated England supporter don't care what we have to do so long as we qualify,guess you would of said the same for Scotland.

204

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 17:20:16

UK Labour and a broken manifesto promise.

"Labour has scrapped its plans for a non-emergency phone number for reporting antisocial behaviour, vandalism and graffiti despite promising the service in its manifesto at the last general election." (Times)

205

kimba,

18/11/2007 17:21:55

243,Ayrshirescot. really.why, you pertain to hate us!

206

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 17:22:55

#229 An English Voice

Seriously...I'll be supporting England. Why does this surprise you? I am not anti-English & never have been. I'm anti-UK government and that's completely different.

207

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 17:22:57

#231
I tend to agree, it is a bit of a non issue. government makes a cut, the recipients moan. I agree with the universities being able to compete at UK and EU level this is the case for any Scottish business willing to sieze the opportunity. This has been further helped by the Scottish Procurement Directorate, a good thing which should help to eradicate or at least minimalise the Labour croniesm and backhanders.

208

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 17:24:31

235

Aye you see where your arguments always fall over is when you take govt stats and figures at face value and then admit yourself that there are actually 2 sets of figures and only one of them are for public consumption. All of your stats relating to NS oil production and revenues are based on Govt public figures and its these figures that are really in dispute because they dont match up with Norways.

You actually have to try and claim that Norways production is 75% greater than the UKs production figures with half the available platforms because your UK production figures wouldnt fit otherwise.
And you use DTI figures for UK production output to make your case.

The UK and Norway use the same technology and the same oil companies to produce their oil. They both charge revenue at the same rate.
The only real difference between them is that Norway has less than half the production platforms producing their oil yet even you agree their revenue exceeds 20bn Sterling.
Yet you and the DTI claim that UK revenue is only 9bn in spite of the fact that the UK has twice the production capablity of Norway.

All of your links are using DTI figures with their comparisons so no wonder it shows Norway is producing 75% more with less than half the production capablity.
And on top of that even with false DTI stats the comparisons within your own links still show that the UK and Norways production is actually on par and not as you claim.

The conclusions are simple and obvious the DTI figures are false or else the Norwegian government figures are false.
My money is on the DTI figures being false how about you?
Somebody somewhere is telling porkies.

209

kimba,

18/11/2007 17:24:51

250. how, as you all claim thr uk is England!

210

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 17:27:04

8th October 2003

"A PIONEERING degree in football business management has been postponed because not enough people signed up."

Oldham Advertiser.

211

kimba,

18/11/2007 17:28:44

252. ok, but as we are all part of the uk,lets not distract from the fact we are all one.

212

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 17:31:36

254. kimba / 5:24pm 18 Nov 2007

250. "how, as you all claim thr uk is England!"

I don't. I never have. If I have used the term "Westminster Government", that's because it is. Nothing anti-English here kimba. The English however tend to think that England = the UK. Maybe that's where you're getting it wrong.

Come away the English.

213

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 17:33:47

#255
Laughed at that.
Aye, they've got golf management degrees as well. I thought that would be easy, get the golfers in, get their money.
Fife council always liked to patrionise St.Andrews albeit through the sides of their Labour mouths in Glenrothes but put very little back into the town happy to take all the revenue that it brings in.

214

Publius,

Girvan for the weekend 18/11/2007 17:35:23

Does anyone know who or what AM2 is? His first post was 1.55 am this morning. His latest was 5.05 pm this afternoon. He never stopped. No single human being could do this - not even with Talisker and Irn Bru.
I suspect that he is a machine that has not been programmed right. There are some serious issues - the balance of expenditure, how much for Universities, are Universities organised to best advantage etc - but AM2 alwasy seems to miss the point.

215

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 17:36:14

#251
True, so it would be nice if it would all blow over. Universities are in quite a privileged position - publicly funded, but they don't have to find effiency savings. Most people agree that they should be publicly funded, but I fear that they are just going to be used for politics for a while, and this obscures a real discussion of what could make our universities better places for both teaching and research, and contributing to wider social and economic progress.

216

Alexander the Scot,

Michigan U.S.A. 18/11/2007 17:37:35

205- METHSPANA

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME VERY WITTY POSTS TODAY, OTHERS SUCH AS AM2 I CAN DO WITHOUT. WITH HIM I AM REMINDED OF THE ADAGE, "FIGURES CAN'T LIE, BUT LIARS CAN FIGURE".
HOWEVER MY QUESTION TO YOU METHS IS THIS, WHICH ONE OF THE "royals" IS IT? THAT'S ONE THEY MUST REALLY HAVE HIDDEN AWAY UNTIL YOU EXPOSED IT, YOU RASCAL YOU! ... GREAT STUFF!

217

kimba,

18/11/2007 17:39:04

spook. who the hell was talking to you, I'm sorry scotland lost,but stop being a poop!

218

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 17:39:40

258

He probably works for them or is actually in charge of the DTI. He probably produced the figures himself but forgot that the figures wouldnt stand up to scutiny with Norways so now he has to try and actually suspend the laws of physics and mathematical formula in order to establish any level of credibility for his claims.

219

whitegold,

Shire 18/11/2007 17:42:40

AM2 wrote:
"The trams are part of the budget too. I suggest you read the document"

Precisely. And because they are part of the budget, money spent on trams needs to be taken from elsewhere. The trams have thereby created a £500m black hole in the snp original spending plans.

You have falsely claimed this didn't matter because of efficiency savings: This was your false claim you have posted on several of these boards:

"Even if you factor in the £490m for the Edinburgh trams, John Swinney’s efficiency savings of £400m (his figure) all but offset them and leave the SNP with £57m more than they expected."

Will you now admit that this statement is false?

The efficiency savings 'balance the books' over the 3 year period. They are part of the several year budget plan and are hence already counted in as part of the budget over these years.

The tram scheme is a genuine loss and not offset by efficiency savings as you have incorrectly claimed.

220

Publius,

Girvan for the weekend 18/11/2007 17:42:58

#259 Haleakelaman

I know of a US University that has a very successful on line/distance learning diploma in golf course managment. It is the University's biggest money spinner. Perhaps St Andrews should go into partnership with it.

221

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 17:43:40

263

Old news I'm afraid. Check out Queen Caroline.

222

kimba,

18/11/2007 17:44:06

258. NO,it's a FACT, LEGALLY YOU LIVE IN THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND.

223

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 17:44:12

267

Dont hold yer breath.

224

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 17:48:03

The next thing you know they'll be doing degrees in Media....media I ask you. Whatever next?

(Apologies to my niece's boyfriend)

225

ochone, ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 18/11/2007 17:54:55

feeling cocky are we AM2, Cocky enough to try answering my questions at last? Remember I don't mind repeating them to save you the bother of looking for them.

Or even cocky enough to comment on the actual article?

Or even cocky enough to try answering Fat Freddys Cat's question which to remind you is at 78.

Or will you just stick to trying to baffle folk with statistics and getting that wrong too?

Or just do what you did yesterday and run away and hide?

226

kimba,

18/11/2007 17:55:32

272,spook. I'm sorry, you seem to have a lot of hangups about the British state,it gave you a education,a job, and the freedom to speak your mind,not to mention health care from the crib to the grave, but hey who cares!

227

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 18:00:15

249 Kimba

I have never "pertained" to hate anyone. I certainly do not hate the English or England, hence I will be supporting them. You have perhaps mistaken my distaste for you to apply to your entire nation, an act of megalomaniacal stupidity which will surprise no one.

You I find incredbly pointless, numbingly stupid and I resent the whiff of stale fish you bring. You are a moron who have never once conmtributed anything of value to any discussion on here. I am sure you are a nice enough person, from a distance. A great distance. Begone

272 Hoos Poos Berero

228

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 18:00:32

AM2

Do you realise that 3/4 of the NS oil production in the UK sector of the North sea would have to be producing absolutely no oil at all to give your claims any credibility.
I wonder what the oil companies would have to say about that? Do you think that would have an effect on their profits?

229

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 18:01:51

#262 Wee Fifer
It's true the universities are being used for political purposes but they do hold the Ace card in St.Andrews. I'm all for them going private and I'm also for funding those students who through no fault of their own weren't born into privilaged families.
That's me for the night happy blogging all.

#268 Pubius

St.Andrews is already in partnership with the States most of the golf establishments here are owned by them. They must be making money the Americans being the top capitalists an all.

230

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 18:03:58

256 Kimba writes "252. ok, but as we are all part of the uk,lets not distract from the fact we are all one."

she only says that because it as high as she can count. We would really be 4 if she got that far in remedial window licking class.

231

Alexander the Scot,

Michigan U.S.A. 18/11/2007 18:07:11

276-Ayrshire Scot.

THE GOOD STUFFS STARTING ALL OVER AGAIN..... KEEP IT UP. IT'S TOO BAD THAT I HAVE TO LEAVE FOR SEVERAL HOURS AND MISS THE FUN AS IT HAPPENS.

232

kimba,

18/11/2007 18:10:33

276,Ayrshirescot. And you are a vindictive, demented,and utterly stupid Scotsman, who is incapable of finding fault with anything the snp do or say, it is a great pity that you find it incomprehensable to distinguish between spin and truth,as for your insultive behavior,I put that down to your lack of good manners that your mother never taught you.

233

ochone, ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 18/11/2007 18:12:43

So Ayrshire Scots mother never taught him a lack of good manners eh, what a family

234

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 18:13:17

283 Kimba

I have found fault with 6 (or is it 7?) SNP thingmies. You never ever say thanks.

235

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 18:13:47

A horse a horse my kingdom for the lack of a horse.

236

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 18:15:53

283. Kimba

LMAO. Nice one. You are quite rght about us legally living in the UK by the way

237

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 18:17:31

...actually (boring time), in Spain a double negative is used to emphasise the positive.

1 "No tengo nada" literally translates as "I don't have nothing", but means I have NOTHING.

2 A local town hall sign says (literal translation from the spanish)"Our village is dying for the lack of no water."

You pays (sic) your money etc.....

238

Alexander the Scot,

Michigan U.S.A. 18/11/2007 18:17:41

276-Ayrshire Scot

A question before heading out the door. Is "INSULTIVE" an English word, or is it used in Scotland also?

239

kimba,

18/11/2007 18:18:31

280. WRONG, Education was not always a seperate issue, at one point the whole of the British Isles had one Education system, as for your job,well the RBS, relies on the bank of England as do the rest of uk banks to bail them out if needed.

240

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 18:18:45

283 Kimba

you are correct, my mother did not teach my a lack of good manners. Nor did she teach me "insultive" behaviours.

241

kimba,

18/11/2007 18:20:40

285. THANKS!

242

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 18:21:54

Scottish education has been separate since AT LEAST the 12th century.

243

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 18:25:36

285. Methspaña / 6:13pm 18 Nov 2007

"I have found fault with 6 (or is it 7?) SNP thingmies. You never ever say thanks."

#293 kimba "THANKS."

Sorry kimba, when I said "You never ever say thanks", I missed out the capitals and an exclamation mark. I was actually instructing you never to thank me.

You'll get the meaning when I re-write as
"You never EVER say thanks!"

...but thanks anyway.

244

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 18:26:13

285 Why do you get thanked? You are one of the SBP cyber bullies. Personally I think you should let Kimba have her say

245

kimba,

18/11/2007 18:26:36

292, seems you didn't get taught much at all, but guess that was westminsters fault.

246

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 18:26:50

298

...but not Medieval like another of our erudite friends.

247

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 18:27:14

287/298

Begone, trollish fool friend on the Kimba

248

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 18:27:39

Well lookee here. I got 300. Cheers Spookie.

249

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 18:28:44

299 Kimba. Exactly. When will they stop blaming Westminster for everything and accept some personal responsibility??????

250

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 18:28:44

SBP?

(ps to Ayrshire.....careful now).

251

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 18:29:48

303 Spook

don't ask her, she would just defrost it then try to mate with the hake

252

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 18:30:18

305 Meant SNP!!!!!!!!!!!

253

kimba,

18/11/2007 18:32:55

meths, Scottish Education was closely linked with English and Welsh Education until devolution.

254

Miss H,

18/11/2007 18:34:05

291

Kimba I am afraid that you are the one who is wrong.

Scotland has always had a separate education system, along with a separate legal system.

255

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 18:35:24

309 kimba

Away and google it kimba. I'm not one to slag you off you know. The Scottish Education System has been independent for years. I'm happy to have a discussion with you (happy is not the correct word), but only if we both agree on certain facts. Please check it out.

256

kimba,

18/11/2007 18:36:15

Spook 20mins at gas mark 5.

257

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 18:36:18

309 Kimba

in what way were the education systems in Scotland and England the same?

258

Miss H,

18/11/2007 18:37:21

304

The SNP does not blame Westminster for everything. We simply believe that the Scottish Parliament should be in charge of everything in Scotland rather than just some things, as is the case now.

Education is a case in point. Policy is, of course, devolved. However funding - as with everything else in Scotland - is in fact determined by Westminster.

The block grant is allocated by Westminster.

That is a fact, not SNP propaganda!

259

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 18:37:55

312 Kimba?

What? As someone on here who doesn't like the way others bully you, what is this? Are you telling the Spook to cook himself or what? Don't sink to their level!!!

260

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 18:38:24

314 No!

261

Conan the Librarian™,

18/11/2007 18:39:52

Lemon juice,vinegar or broon sauce on your fish supper spookie?

262

Geoff,

SA 18/11/2007 18:41:43

305-Scottish British Party?

263

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 18:42:30

...a wee quote from the BBC...

"One of the reasons Scotland has retained such a strong sense of identity, despite 290 years of union with a much larger and more powerful entity, is the difference in its education system."

264

kimba,

18/11/2007 18:43:31

spook. with all due respect,hope you choke on your fish and chips!

265

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 18:45:30

320 Bog off. Kimba can speak for herself!!!!!

266

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 18:45:53

322 hahahahaha nice one !!!!!

267

kimba,

18/11/2007 18:47:53

321, that may well be, funny how we have the "British council for Education" it oversees all of Britains Education institutes.

268

kimba,

18/11/2007 18:50:19

Sorry folks,it's my bro-in-laws birthday,off to a birthday bash.

269

kimba,

18/11/2007 18:54:08

spook, you would dis me as soon as, so don't play the wounded soul with me!

270

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 18:55:33

329 Bye!!!

271

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 18:55:54

Wounded sole....

272

Nikostratos,

18/11/2007 18:57:13

#314 Miss H

"We simply believe that the Scottish Parliament should be in charge of everything in Scotland"

Does this mean the snp are withdrawing Scotland from the EU if Independence is achieved in the next ten or perhaps twenty some years.

Ayrshire Scot™

i like this so I'll post it again
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1074/1156624029_6f0c2ab1a9...

273

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 19:00:26

332 Niko

well if it makes you happy. Here, try this

http://www.woolamaloo.org.uk/saltire%20hanging%20filter%2...

274

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 19:01:30

333 How delivish

orereb soop sooh

275

Nikostratos,

18/11/2007 19:02:04

#327 ...a wee quote from the BBC...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/feedback.shtml


Are there too many Scottish voices on air at Radio 4? Feedback investigates accusations that the station, rather than being the voice of middle England, is more like the voice of Midlothian these days.

276

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 19:02:27

336 - mmm, 334 and devilish even

277

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 19:07:16

328 Kimba

"Sorry folks,it's my bro-in-laws birthday,off to a birthday bash."

That will be the historian she co-authors articles in the Telegraph with

278

ochone, ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 18/11/2007 19:10:43

Nikostratos, I do hope that your not implying that it was just unionists that suffered or died during WW2, no you wouldn't would you?

Liberal for life, if efficiency cuts have been imposed over the last 20 years on Universities, care to tell us who imposed them? Could it have been the opposition parties.

279

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 19:11:34

341 Patience....... hehehehe

280

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 19:12:26

333 An excellent post, well argued. I congratulate you!

281

Nikostratos,

18/11/2007 19:13:56

#340 Ayrshire Scot™

after the match

http://www.pbase.com/lusobrandane/image/36954255

339

why?

282

Col. Blimp IV*,

18/11/2007 19:19:48

#333 Britisher for Life - "if we are to become a leading nation in the global economy."

If someone from Norfolk said that, about his wee corner of England/Britain, he would be carted of to the funny farm.

283

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 19:22:15

#333
Yes, I agree with absolutely everything you say, in principle, but not with the detail. It's not the same thing as the cuts in the 80s, when the universities were literally attacked - there's been a massive expansion in Scottish HE, and through all the hype over this current spat the universities are still getting more money. The problem of their funding is not going to be solved by Nicol Stephen jumping on it with glee using it as a stick to beat the SNP with. Also the Scottish VCs do not all sing from the same hymn sheet on this one. They got half of what they asked for and I think they got what they expected. Certainly enough to look after their own inflated salaries, but telling the rest of us to make do - as they did after the pay round - the pay rise was at 'the limits of affordability' - except for them that is.
I look around the campus at Edinburgh for example, and I'm afraid I can't see a higher education sector in crisis. I honestly don't think it's ever been in better shape, especially science, but also the social sceinces too are better than ever. You mention efficiency cuts in universities, yes, they tightened their belts and in the wrong places - they are now overstaffed, not with academics, but by 'administrators', and 'quality assurance officers' who are as well paid as the academics, but much less qualified yet are supposed to monitor the teaching quality of the academics? Just one example.
Just out of curiosity, really, what on earth do the LDs see in Nicol Stephen - couldn't they have ditched him for Tavish who is much better?

284

Charles Lamb,

18/11/2007 19:29:38

# 185 - Logon No 6 and counting. Did rest of UK receive past underspends?

285

Miss H,

18/11/2007 19:30:41

333 says 'The Opposition parties realise that even if the SNP doesn't.'

Who are you trying to kid?

The SNP has INCREASED the amount going to the HE sector from what was allocated by the previous administration - who are, of course, now the Opposition, lambasting the SNP for not giving enough to universities.

Utter nonsense. The Opposition gave less to universities when they were in power than the SNP government is - and they would have given less to universities than the SNP government is giving had they been re-elected!

You know, it would make you greet. You must think that the electorate are totally stupid. They are not.

286

Colin John Macrae,

West Lothian 18/11/2007 19:33:32

The Politics Show 12:00 Nicol Stephen said the Lib/Dem plan to sell off Scottish Water to pay for the Universities, the interviewer let it pass.
The BBC are just as bad as the Scotsman as they will lose all the revenue from Scotland should we become Independent so much for neutral and factually based news.

287

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 19:35:04

348 Spook

here try some tantric whistling:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pEzuC5UoM8g

hoos poos...

288

Wee Fred,

Glasgow 18/11/2007 19:35:57

How much of the Education budget could we save if we stopped the ludicrous, outdated practice of transporting tens of thousands of kids all over the place every morning and evening of every school day just to satisfy those clinging on to power in the faith schools?

289

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 19:36:32

#350
Good point, but what are the electorate to make of it if one of our two main newspapers talks about 'cash-starved universities' when they are patently doing better than ever? Stories written to order. It does prove the point that education is important in making sure that poeple have the intellectual resources and cultural and political literacy necessary to avoid being led by the nose like that.

290

ochone, ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 18/11/2007 19:36:53

I wonder if any of our unionist friends would mind helping me out here, especially as the Scotsman would seem to be saying in this article that there could be another instance of the opposition parties cosying up to each other again.

How far are you willing to see your parties go to preserve the union? i think the public should be informed.

Joint Candidates? (if you'll forgive the expression), that could end in tears, For Labour with the most existing MSPs would most likely want to pick who contested where, but as the Tories presumably have more dosh, (they can't be skint too can they?), they will insist that they call the shots, the Lib dems will of course do as there told. So who will make the decisions?

Then of course there are those opinion polls which show that a growing number of the good folk down South would also like a split, so surely in the interests of fare play and preserving the Union there would have to be joint candidates down there and maybe even Wales, not forgetting of course the Scottish seats at a Westminster election, i mean where would it end?

the real problem in England of course would be that the only real opposition could come from those folks who gave their opinion to the polls, Can't see the BNP or the UKIP wanting to break up the Union, so who who the joint candidate oppose.

There's always the English Nationilist party i suppose. maybe we could give them a few tips, what do you think

291

CJO,

The Maghreb 18/11/2007 19:39:08

#333 - You are correct that the focus in Scotland should be on subjects such as Engineering and the like given that we have a good industry, predominantly based in aberdeen that is crying out for graduates. After a few years there a lot head off overseas to work. But they have contributed before they take off.

The O&G industry is aging and there are many, many opportunities out there for young people if they can be bothered to take them.

Education for all is laudible, university education for all may not necessarily be required. Mechs, techs and fitters don't need a uni degree but they do need education, training and opportunity.

As the point of this article is the funding of the universities in Scotland perhaps we should be looking at how many universities there are in Scotland and what they are teaching to consider them on their merits for funding. If government force them into the private sector for funding people should not then complain if they focus on that and where they get funded from, i.e. overseas students paying for the pleasure of being educated in Scotland, perhaps to the exclusion of Scots.

292

Miss H,

18/11/2007 19:39:21

351

It's easy enough for Nicol Stephen to make these kinds of claims - we'll privatise Scottish Water to pay for universities.

Easy enough - and another symptom of the electoral suicide pact the Lib Dems and Labour seem to have signed up to!

But would they have forced that through if they had been elected to coalition with Labour?

No they wouldn't have. They would have sat on their hands as usual.

I must say that if I was a Lib Dem I would be absolutely furious with my party leadership. They have failed utterly to differentiate themselves from Labour in this post-election situation which is what they must do if they are to have a viable future.

293

BMeister,

18/11/2007 19:39:40

#328 Kimba

Wouldn't want you to miss an event of such historic importance

294

Miss H,

18/11/2007 19:42:36

354

Not a single penny.

295

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 19:45:26

#351
Absolutely. A disgusting programme today, organised around a Labour cribsheet. Pathetic - have people now given up asking the BBC for a bit of reporting? No-one is asking them to provide propaganda for the government, just to do a bit of investigation of their own and present some facts and some analysis instead of a bit of 'he says, she says' journalism skewed towards Labour and the Lib dems.
#352
Maybe, but the Labour party are the worst of all, a few generations after Keir Hardie and nothing but degeneration into a system for career advancement of some lackeys.
#354
Money could be saved by upgrading schools estates rather than building new schools all over the place. Will the current Barrhead High be replaced under a PPP with a brick built school like the one they have that needs new windows and a roof. That wouldn't be as profitable as a lucrative private finance deal. I know it's brick because I saw it today on the same politics show - and Dumbarton Academy doesn't look as if it is falling down exactly either.

296

Nikostratos,

18/11/2007 19:50:22

#342 ochone, ochone

Its an iconic image not a political statement from me.


#348 The spook in Leith...patience..patience..One day their will be a flat hierarchy and your manager will be gone. And you will blogging away your life with nobody looking over your shoulder

297

Brick V. Tamland II,

18/11/2007 19:50:46

Ahoy hoy chumrades. Here's simple question.

Is it legal, six months after being dumped off the gravy train for Allan Wilson to still be calling himself an MSP?

http://allanwilsonmsp.com/

Incidentally anyone wishing to discuss Mr Wilson's rather soor plooms approach to the SNP government can contact him on his mobile telephone number 07711038711 as featured prominently on his MSP website.

His website is testamount to his self effacing ways with only a mere 185 photographs of the great man in action. You know they'd make a great Christmas present.

298

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 19:51:20

Nicol Stephen should be a member of Coldplay

299

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 19:51:42

...or Keane

300

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 19:51:53

#357
"As the point of this article is the funding of the universities in Scotland perhaps we should be looking at how many universities there are in Scotland and what they are teaching to consider them on their merits for funding. If government force them into the private sector for funding people should not then complain if they focus on that and where they get funded from, i.e. overseas students paying for the pleasure of being educated in Scotland, perhaps to the exclusion of Scots."

The heat needs to be taken out of this argument. The universities in Scotland do a good job. That's why they receive so much public funding, it's necessary and beneficial. If you want the country to be like America, then go that route, the route to social exclusion and the third world at home.

301

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 19:52:40

... maybe that's not fair on Keane, they've got some good tunes, likesay

302

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 19:56:11

#368 -

I am sick of reading simplistic anti-American comments on these pages.

It's like, if you've got nothing to say, just blame America.

303

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 19:56:50

...I mean, what would you rather have, Los Angeles or Glenrothes...?

304

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 19:57:42

The Proclaimers are an embarrassment

305

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 19:59:24

#371
Don't they have the third world at home? Top universities and poverty, ignorance and misery cheek by jowl. Is it anti-American to raise a voice saying that the people in America are poorly served by their governing classes?

306

Brick V. Tamland II,

18/11/2007 20:00:14
307

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 20:00:16

Actuually I take that back about the Proclaimers. Much as I hate "500 Miles", "Joyful Kilmarnock Blues is a classic"

308

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 20:00:19

#372
Neither, but if I had to choose, it would be Glenrothes. At least Glenrothes has some hope of being improved.

309

Haleakelaman,

18/11/2007 20:01:15

#333
The efficiency cuts aren't working across the whole university system, perhaps a cut here and there in a few departments is what you're talking about.

Also I'd expect to see more investment from private companies and pharmaceuticalsfunding the research in universities as they will benefit financially more than Scotland and it's people, who as tax payers are footing the current bill.

310

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 20:02:12

~374 - maybe not, but it is simplistic. America will have diversity due to its size. The standard of living there makes a lot of the UK look third world. In Communist Russia everybody had enough to eat - but does anyone want to go back to that, save for a few bolsheviks

311

Brick V. Tamland II,

18/11/2007 20:02:18
312

Scots UltraNationalist.,

Nova Scotia 18/11/2007 20:03:28

#377 - Kinghorn's got a good coastline

313

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 20:06:08

380 Montague

who is this megalomaniacal and oafish buffoon Wilson? Is he a pal of Zebedees?

379 - And perhaps some Mensheviks, but they won't go all the way

314

Brick V. Tamland II,

18/11/2007 20:10:56

#379 Are you serious, the standard of living in the majority of USA homes is nearer supposed third world standards., not that anyones country should be considered third.

315

,

18/11/2007 20:14:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1153636, Article id was mapped to record!
316

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/11/2007 20:18:03

To Annabelle, Little Stephen and Wendy,

You'll be going, you'll be going,
You'll be going down the road
When they hear the noise of the opposition voice
You'll be going down the road.

317

BIG HAIRY CATERPILLAR,

UNDER A STONE 18/11/2007 20:20:37

im waiting

318

Brick V. Tamland II,

18/11/2007 20:22:26

#382

What ho Ayrshire Scot. I was perusing the opinion column of the Sunday Herald, who have inexplicably given this Foulkes Junior a platform from which to mouth his ill conceived thoughts, when I discovered his website. The sheer number of egotistical photographs of the man makes Baron Zebedee appear modest.

http://www.sundayherald.com/oped/opinion/display.var.1841...

If you delve into his 'album' be prepared, rubber gloves and eyewash are highly recommended.

319

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 20:24:41

349 AM2

Did the rest of the UK ask the UK government for them and if not why not? its not the SNPs job or remit to look after the interests of the rest of the UK is it?

320

subrosa,

18/11/2007 20:24:53

#229

As I suspected you're stuck in your playground mentality. May I suggest you move on to the secondary to play with the big boys and girls.

321

,

18/11/2007 20:24:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1153649, Article id was mapped to record!
322

Brick V. Tamland II,

18/11/2007 20:26:00

Here he is emulating Troy McLure in an attempt to sleep with the fishes...

http://allanwilsonmsp.com/new-gallery/gallery/allan-album...


and again after being apprehended for doing a "Ron Davies"

http://allanwilsonmsp.com/new-gallery/gallery/allan-album...

323

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 20:28:57

#384
Guess I'm not the only one who sees Wendy on a Thursday and thinks 'god help us if that donnert **** were in' - choose your own expletive please.

324

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen 18/11/2007 20:31:06

358 - Miss H
You're exactly right on your last point - what is Nicol Stephen playing at? It does look a bit ominous for the Lib Dems when you look at the UK situation.

This United Unionist front on nearly every single policy that is tabled by the Nationalist Government is much more to do with Unionism than specific policies, and the Scottish Public is being shortchanged again.

You would expect total opposition from Labour, but not from the Lib Dems (or is that the LAB DEMS)

325

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 20:31:35

BTW, does anyone know if Brian Lironi is the same as Brian Lironi alumnus of Kennoway Primary School, Buckhaven High School, and Dundee University? What does he think on this day marred by controversy of our educational crisis?

326

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 20:33:26

#393
I don't get why the Lib Dems are so hung up on the union anyway.

327

Col. Blimp IV*,

18/11/2007 20:44:48

#391. Brick V. Tamland II

Thanks for introducing us to the wonderful world of Alain Wilson.

But who is/was he?

328

Moxi, Kimbas sister..,

Redcar and Ceveland council flat. 18/11/2007 20:50:40

#396 An English voice.

SHUT IT !! GOT IT !!

329

Conan the Librarian™,

18/11/2007 20:50:45

396

370HSSV 0773H

330

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 20:51:52

Twenty billion barrels of oil have been pumped up from the Norwegian continental shelf since production started in June 1971.

How many barrels from the UK North Sea sector?

331

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 20:52:52

Hey hey hey...I got 200, 300 & 400.

332

Conan the Librarian™,

18/11/2007 20:54:24

Greed.Pure greed.

333

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 20:54:42

399

LOL

334

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 20:55:08

401 All numbers without any power...I await 666.

396 - Interesting, what would it take to convince him we wonder?

335

ochone, ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 18/11/2007 20:55:35

389 if you want some real laughs you should head over to Labours very own web page.

Start with the Scottish section, here you will find such rib ticklers as their rural affairs spoke's person saying that the payment scheme to farmers should be hurried up, also that the levels of payment should be investigated and that the SNP government should take action.

You will also find here that when it comes to selecting someone to take over from Lesley 'did she jump or was she pushed' Quinn, that a joint comittee of both Scottish and National (British) comittee members will be formed.

Then if you go through the rest of the site you will find such jewels as the fact that free will forms can be provided for members south of the border but apparently they can't get to grips with Scot's law as there aren't any for those up here, i tell you it's priceless!

336

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 20:57:59

Hey Conan

EV = 577V8

337

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 20:58:43

402. Wini, Scots in England / 8:54pm 18 Nov 2007

401. Methspaña

"we impressed, but how far can you go "

Best offer I've had since yesterday's wedding.

338

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 20:58:47

399 - Just got it. LOL :-)

339

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 20:59:34

407 Sweaty ones at that

340

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:01:52

409?

341

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:02:02

erse

342

,

18/11/2007 21:06:55
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343

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 21:09:31

414 Hail Hail Meths

Hoos Poos!

344

Moxi, Kimbas sister..,

Redcar and Ceveland council flat. 18/11/2007 21:09:31

#413 Wini.

When you have a decent sack on you, then you can give me cheek..GOT IT!!!

345

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 21:10:31

415 A magisterial dissertation!

346

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 21:12:33

418, ah septic oafish poltroon! How goes it? Which of your 8 careers are you claiming today? I see even Kimba is mocking your multi-tasking plethora of occupations. Begone and take you new pal at 419 with you

347

,

18/11/2007 21:12:59
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348

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:15:16

415. An English voice... / 9:08pm 18 Nov 2007

"You nats are fast becoming a joke!"

We've got to be...to catch up with you.

..actually this doesn't really make sense...then again neither does EV.

349

Col. Blimp IV*,

18/11/2007 21:15:17

#415. An English voice...

85% of Englishmen are Gaylords.

Confirm or deny

350

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 21:15:47

396 AM2

Everyone of the sources presented all took their NS oil production figures for the UK from the DTI and used ONLY DTI figures. Therefore their conclusions statements and tables are based ONLY on what the DTI says it is.
The whole point of my argument is to show that the DTI figures dont add up when compared with Norways. As I said before for the DTI figures to fit in with Norways then 3/4 of the NS oil production within the UK sector would have to have 0 production output.
But dont let logic, common sense, mathematics and physics get in the way of Labour party propaganda or cyber trolling.

400

Here are the DTI official figures (To be taken with a pinch of salf) work it out for yourself then compare their NS revenue claim of 9bn with Norways 21bn

http://www.og.dti.gov.uk/pprs/full_production.htm

351

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:16:19

Hoos Poos...what the?......

352

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:22:07

426. An English voice... / 9:19pm 18 Nov 2007

420. "Ah, but I don't have to 'claim' any careers.

Do I, 'scientist'?"

...no..because you've got too many jobs already.

(this also doesn't make sense. I think I may have overdone the medication)

353

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:22:35

Wini

2 copies?

354

Conan the Librarian™,

18/11/2007 21:22:56

423
Col.
Perhaps we could open an "Anyonebutenglandian" Cyber Consulate?

355

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 21:23:51

426 You don't have to, but for your own reasons you have claimed several ...(i) United nations (ii) law enforcement (iii) military analysts (iv) espionage (v) helicopter pilot etc etc Even Kimba is slagging you.

As for me being a scientist, there are quite a few about. I don't have any WMD/ UN/ Q gadgets type sciencey experience that would interest you though, Bond.

356

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 21:25:54

415

And you trolls have always been a joke.
You throw around statistics, figures and Government quotes as if they should be believed without question. Ignoring the track record of the same Governments when it comes to telling the truth about anything.
You yourselves arent stupid enough to believe even half of the pish you post so we can only presume you post it to annoy and to provoke.
You yourself have actually claimed you post "to wind up nats" you have no credibility you have posted absolutely nothing that has managed to stand up to any level of scutiny.
In short you are just a waste of posting space and worse you set out just to acheive that very lable.

357

,

18/11/2007 21:26:07
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358

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:28:10

435. Wini, Scots in England / 9:25pm 18 Nov 2007

430. Methspaña

"Did you not spot the spelling mistake?"

Alas no. A hair of the dog was recommended. Unfortunately I have had a tuft. Eyes a bit skelly just now.

359

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 21:28:11

425 Hoos Poos Berero! Don't ask me.

360

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 21:28:19

415

And further you post under different logons but in fact your all just the same cyber troll.

361

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 21:29:24

439

A bit more than suspicion when you compare the figures with Norways. The sums simply dont add up period.

362

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 21:30:30

439

The McCrone report actually exposed that very fact.
They lied in the 70s so what makes you think they have stopped now?

363

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:30:32

Nope..I don't get the Hoos Poos bit. I may have missed something.

364

Col. Blimp IV*,

18/11/2007 21:30:44

#431. Conan the Librarian™

Excellent Idea, your Excellency.

Might prove difficult to find an Ambassador to...you know where.

365

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 21:31:08

439 Indeed, a grand conspiracy or do the figures not add up to what they want? I fear you will now be attacked by the cyber drones for having the cheek to point this out

366

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 21:31:59

439

They are not just hiding the facts from the SNP but from the whole country. Its nothing new its called the official secrets act.

367

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 21:32:57

445 Ah, septic, slimy arrogant and pompous oaf... you don't deny the other 4 jobs just those. You are clearly a deranged Walter Mitty fantasist sitting there in your elederly mothers clothes. Begone

368

Conan the Librarian™,

18/11/2007 21:33:08

Hey,I live in +ZI?:-)

369

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 21:33:34

452 EV ... 453, and so the abuse begins...

370

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:34:02

...and the GERS report included parts of England "by mistake"

371

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 21:34:45

449

Its not a conspiricy its a legitimate democratic Government process. Do you know everything our governments get up to? Do you actually believe what the government tells you its spends our taxes on? Do you think every penny taken in taxes is actually accounted for etc etc etc.

372

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 21:35:14

452

Yeah yeah yeah whatever.

373

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 21:35:50

452

Aye well as the name suggests 6 in total. But only one at a time.

374

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:36:41
375

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 21:38:37

460 I fear even if the answer if yes it won't make any difference

376

,

18/11/2007 21:38:49
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377

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:39:05

Me tired now.

378

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 21:40:28
379

Col. Blimp IV*,

18/11/2007 21:40:39

#452. An English voice...

Sill waiting for the Gov stats, links, tables, graphs, opinion polls and so on.

Re English male sexuality, or is the statement at #423 accurate ± a percentage point or two?

380

,

18/11/2007 21:41:32
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381

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 21:41:49

465 Conan

one would have though a military analyst/pilot/spy/policeman/international diplomat would have worked that out. but alas...

382

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:42:13

Logon No 6 & counting.

I heard that the film "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" was a flop in America. The cinema going public said they had yet to see the first 7 films in the series.

383

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:44:28

468

Great post logon6. I'll save this one too.

384

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:46:18

Ayrshire Scot

I'll SEE your military analyst /pilot /spy /policeman / international diplomat and raise you an oil expert.

385

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:47:45

...jack of all trades and master of none. Talking of which...where's the master..or the dark side for that matter?

386

,

18/11/2007 21:48:18
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387

Nikostratos,

18/11/2007 21:48:53
388

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 21:48:55

476

I'll SEE your military analyst /pilot /spy /policeman / international diplomat/oil expert and raise you a constitutional lawyer

389

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 21:50:11

478 English Voice

indeed, this may explain the inability to grasp basic statitics

390

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 21:50:31

478

Most folk here are referring to it as trolling but if you want to call it irony and still post yer pish regarding NS oil revenue then Irony it shall be.

391

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:52:09
392

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:54:07

Hi Niko..all OK?

393

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 21:55:04

I think I may follow English Voice's example and become a physicist, an astronomer, a mathematician, an inorganic chemist and a zoologist to broaden my scope in science.

Right, I have, all done. Expert whitterings on all subjects at the ready.

394

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:56:46

481. Ayrshire Scot™ / 9:48pm 18 Nov 2007

I'll SEE your military analyst /pilot /spy /policeman / international diplomat/oil expert /constitutional lawyer and raise you a "Mitty."

(I'm playing my joker on this one)

395

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 21:57:59

While I was doing top secret, military experimentation involving law enforcement at the behest of the united nations in a helicopter, I gained 7 extra careers quite by accident. I am now a judge and neurosurgeon.

396

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 21:58:03

Look...just because you've won a few games of "RISK", doesn't make you a military expert.

Neither does saving all yer commando comics.

397

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 21:58:59

489 military analyst /pilot /spy /policeman / international diplomat/oil expert /constitutional lawyer ..... hardest job in the world, innit?

398

Auld Nick,

Alloway 18/11/2007 21:59:43

492 Oh, I think you have hit a nerve. Where is the conclusion on Norway's oil...invented?

399

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 22:00:43

492

You wont find yer answers up there.

400

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 22:01:28
401

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 22:02:37

495 Hasn't stopped him so far....

402

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 22:02:46

500

403

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 22:02:49

500?

404

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 22:02:55

.

405

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 22:03:19

500 - hail hail meths....hoos poos berero!!

406

,

18/11/2007 22:03:19
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407

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 22:04:34

This must be a record.

Hoos Poos whatever....

408

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 22:05:18

I think it's getting a tad personal here.

409

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 22:06:03

Funny I was mentioning the master and dark side and along comes Niko.....hmm

410

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 22:06:05

504 Meths

"This must be a record."

nah, English Voice has had more than 500 professions. You need at least 600 to beat him

411

CJO,

The Maghreb 18/11/2007 22:09:06

#368 - Sorry had a much nicer distraction that Scotland on Sunday that required my full attention.

Anyway, privately funded referred to the institutions and not the individuals. Universties should be funded by both private and public funds. It is good for business and good for the academic institutes as well.
I believe Scotland would have been better served sticking to the unis they had rather than changing the titles of Napier, RGIT et al and suddenly they become unis, too.
Focus on what you are good at, develop it and keep doing the best you can.

413

Conan the Librarian™,

18/11/2007 22:12:17

491
Commando Comics were fab! I learned all my German and Japanese from them.
I especially liked the phrase"Englander Schweinhund",and I always greet Japanese visitors with"Aiee!" or "Banzai!"

414

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 22:12:25

English Voice

What accent?

415

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 22:15:04

Conan the Librarian™

"I always greet Japanese visitors with"Aiee!" or "Banzai!"

I thought they were very small trees. That would explain my complete misunderstanding of Commando Comics.

Unfortunately they cost a shilling when you could get a Marvel comic for 9p.

416

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 22:16:04

Conan

They are now a tad politically incorrect!

http://www.ali-hassan.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/Comm...

417

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 22:16:31

Note price........one shilling.

418

Methspaña,

18/11/2007 22:20:23

OK...bed time here. Catch you all anon.

419

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 22:22:48

516 Is that a pic of EV in action?

Or is he Japs eye?

420

Conan the Librarian™,

18/11/2007 22:23:44

515
Meths,5p...9p?
Fantastic or Terrific,which were the British versions.

I wanted to be Thor.

421

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 22:26:28

522 are the rocket launchers and ejector seat in your current 007 car not adequate?

422

Col. Blimp IV*,

18/11/2007 22:28:07

#513. Conan the Librarian™

Mamma Mia!

Sacre bleu mon amiee!

That's where I learned how to speak French and Italian.

Small world!

423

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 22:29:30

524 what a seemless hand over.....

424

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 22:31:17

527 ask EV, he is a spy, policeman and international man of mystery,,,,he will know

425

pone300,

18/11/2007 22:34:01

"Labour leads all-party attack on SNP budget"

What, Labour, LibDems, Tories, Greens?
No, just Labour themselves and the Libdems.
I would be ashamed to write that headline.

426

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 22:36:10

532 hehehe quite funny (for you....)

was the spell checker I am sure :-)

428

Ayrshire Scot™,

18/11/2007 22:38:53