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Irish ministers join the battle to rid Scottish football of sectarian chanting



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Published Date: 12 October 2008
By Eddie Barnes Political Editor
A GROWING campaign to rid Scottish football stadiums of sectarian chanting has reached the top levels of the Irish government.
Dublin's minister for foreign affairs Micheál Martin has expressed concerns over the "intimidation" at Celtic vs Rangers matches, following protests from politicians in the Irish Dáil. He said he had received a promise that "tangible new steps" wil
l be taken by the Scottish Government.

The row comes after an Old Firm game in August when Rangers fans were heard singing the Famine Song, which includes the line "The famine's over, why don't you go home." The song also refers to how the Irish in Scotland have brought the country "nothing but trouble and shame". Rangers FC have asked fans to refrain from singing the song.

However, TDs in Dublin are now urging Irish foreign ministers to raise the matter in Edinburgh. Alan Shatter TD said some of his constituents who had travelled to the game from Ireland had complained about what he described as "offensive anti-Irish songs". He added: "The singing of such songs is a regular event and has caused fear and concern to Irish residents and their children who on occasion visit Glasgow for such football matches."

Martin said: "I am assured that tangible new steps to tackle sectarianism are currently being reviewed by the Scottish Government and I am hopeful that the proposed measures will help to improve the situation."

The matter was first raised at a meeting between the Scottish Government and the Irish consulate last month, and Martin said the consul-general has now been asked to monitor the situation.

But sources last night suggested that the strength of feeling in Ireland is such that the matter may be taken up by Irish MEPs, who will seek tougher sanctions against fans.

In 2006, ministers introduced new Football Banning Orders under which sectarian singing can lead to a 10-year ban from UK games. However, some now say that singing such songs should lead to an immediate arrest.

A spokesman for First Minister Alex Salmond last night said: described the exchanges in the Irish parliament as "very helpful and constructive". He added: "The Scottish Government is funding and supporting many initiatives to combat sectarianism, including Promoting Citizenship Through Football launched this week. Last month, the First Minister reaffirmed his commitment to tackling sectarian bigotry and will make a statement in due course."

Last month, former first minister Jack McConnell attacked the Scottish Government for failing to follow through his own high-profile bid to stamp out sectarianism. He claimed this was allowing the "cancer" of sectarianism to grow back.

However, the SNP insists it is rolling out a series of measures. Ministers are funding groups including Sense over Sectarianism and Nil by Mouth. The Government is also backing a £150,000 football project known as "Kick Out Bigotry".

Last week, Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill also unveiled a partnership between football chiefs and the Government to weed out sectarianism by promoting "positive citizenship" through sport.

The row over the chanting of the song at the Old Firm game on August 31 is unprecedented even in the turbulent history of rivalry between the two clubs. Celtic chairman John Reid condemned the song as "racist".

However, Celtic fans have not escaped censure. A Northern Ireland sports minister said he was unlikely to accept an invitation to Celtic Park because of pro-IRA chanting by fans. DUP MP Gregory Campbell wrote to Reid about songs sung by Celtic fans during their September 13 game away to Motherwell and demanded the club take more action.





The full article contains 609 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 October 2008 7:50 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 11/10/2008 23:36:31
How shameful is it that it takes the intervention of a foreign government whose citizens are being routinely racially abused every time they visit Scotland before we see the possibility of any meaningfull action on this issue.

One Scotland many cultures except if you're Irish.
2

truthsleuth,

12/10/2008 00:16:18
#1 One Scotland many cultures except if you're Irish

And therein lies the problem

Are you Irish or Scots?
3

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 00:25:00
#2

Therein lies the problem indeed.

What does it matter what I am. Whether the song affects me or doesnt has no relevance here. As it happens I am a Scotsman living in Sydney but that doesnt change the fact that, as the Irish Government has pointed out, Irish citizens are being routinely racialy abused when they visit our country. This should be a concern to all Scots no matter what their ethnic background.

The silence from the Scottish Government, the SFA and the SPL is truely shameful as is the lack of condemnation from Rangers FC.

If we are to move on as a nation, independant or otherwise then we have to confront our demons. And anti-Irish racism is certainly one of them and one which cannot be confrinted and removed by sticking our heads in the sand and pretending it doesnt happen.
4

glen urquhart,

glasgow 12/10/2008 00:28:37
Of course if a similar song was regularly sung about Africans in Glasgow, Alex would have to do something about it. Call yourself a leader?
5

Steve French,

12/10/2008 01:36:17
What a complete embarrasment for Scotland (again).

Well done Rangers fans, God knows what the rest of the world must think.
6

Ban MacTire,

Alba 12/10/2008 01:37:47
#2 - are you Irish or are you Scots?
A tricky question, with no easy answers - if you recall your history - the Scotii, who give their name to this country were a Celtic tribe from the north of Ireland who founded the Kingdom of Dalriada on the west coast around Argyll and eventually amalgamated with the native Picts to form Scotland, under -if I recall correctly - Kenneth the First, and then a large chunk went back over to the north of Ireland with the Plantations of the 17th Century - who became known as the Scots-Irish (a huge amount of whom went on to become the founders and a large part of the modern USA in the 18th Century)

So one possible answer to your question is - BOTH.
For the most part modern Scots and Irish are both the same - Celts or Gael's - take your choice of label.

I can trace my family through both sides from the Gaels of Ulster who came over to Scotland to escape the famine, to the Highland Gaels.

Ultimately your question becomes political and possibly religiious - as racially & culturally, there's hardly a fag paper you can put between the Scots and Irish.
7

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 02:27:36
#6

Which makes it all the more bewildering why some people in Scotland still retain a pathological hatred for all things Irish.

For all intensive purposes we are the same people.
8

Patrick from Hamilton,

Hamilton 12/10/2008 02:32:49
It is , indeed , a disgraceful that Irish visitors to our country have to endure such hurtful taunts . Perhaps on their next visit , instead of attending an Old Firm game , they could visit the Burrell Collection , Kelvingrove Art Gallery or even one of the other cities or historic sights of Scotland . In any of these venues they would be practically guaranteed to avoid the sectarian abuse endemic in the institutionally anti-Irish hell-hole that is Scotland .

Or could it be that the main reason for some of these chaps to visit our racist shores is to hurl sectarian abuse at the native population , sing in praise of genocidal terrorists and generally flaunt their hatred of Britain and love of Irish Republicanism .

No. That can't be it . After all , I'm sure the visit of a large boisterous crowd of west of Scotland Loyalists would be met with warmth and understanding were they to descend upon Dublin once a fortnight to watch a game of football , wave the Union Jack and sing about the success of the British Army in killing Irish Republicans .

Truely our lack of hospitality is an unparalleled blight on humanity .

Scotland's shame ; Southern Ireland's righteous victimhood .
9

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 02:46:24
#8

A bigger pile of racist stereotypical mince you would go a long way to find.

So some Irish men singing songs about Irish Nationalism in your eyes justifies widespread and endemic racism against a nation with whom we are closely linked.

Any Irish visitor to these shores for any reason has a decent chance of suffering the endemic racism towards the Irish that you have summed up so well.

Or perhaps we should inform Visit Scotland that we no longer welcome visitors from Ireland.

Scotlands Shame right enough.

10

donald,

glasgow 12/10/2008 05:39:50
They could start with the Loyalist/Unionist/British Nationalist Celtic Board and all the sectarian games played by Labourites, both ends to the middle, to divide and rule.

Just ban the Old Firm. They are a disgrace to humanity.

The potato famine reached the Highlands too, but there were few people left as they had mostly been cleared out buy then. Both the famine and the clearances were unnecessary and manufactured.
11

Alex Scott,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 08:00:15
Yet more shoddy and deceitful reporting from Eddie Barnes, erstwhile editor of the Scottish Catholic Observer. As sung by Rangers fans, the so-called ‘Famine Song’ contains only one line: ‘The famine’s over, why don’t you go home?’

The chant is intended as an ironic response to music played over the PA system at Celtic Park (‘The Fields of Athenry’ and ‘Let The People Sing’ both refer to the famine), which is invariably followed by songs sung by the Parkhead support celebrating violent Irish Republicanism. The words of the chant may be viewed as tasteless and provocative (as is much humour nowadays) but, as Rod Liddle of the Sunday Times points out, they are relatively tame in the context of those heard in other British football grounds. Interestingly, Liddle also detects a bias in the Scottish media with regard to its respective treatment of the Rangers and Celtic supports.

As a society, we either have to agree on no restrictions on speech or complete censorship of anything that could be considered remotely offensive by any individual. Any position taken between these two extremes is entirely subjective and, I fear, this is the position we have found ourselves in. However, as has become increasingly apparent, the subjectivity of some is accorded infinitely more worth than that of others and a pernicious threat consequently lurks in the background to this entire issue.

We are in grave danger of not only suppressing freedom of speech but criminalising a certain section of the community at the behest of the Roman Catholic Church, its cheerleaders in the Scottish press and, it now appears, politicians from a foreign country. Hopefully, Alex Salmond will have enough sense to instruct Micheál Martin that he has no right to interfere in the internal affairs of another nation.

Would that politicians in the Republic of Ireland had shown as much eagerness to extradite terrorists guilty of countless murders and atrocities rather than harbouring them!


12

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 12/10/2008 08:21:03
People should stop calling this problem "sectarianism". There's no conflict in Scotland between Protestants and e.g. Polish or Italian Catholics. The problem is confined to people who identify with one side or side of the ethnic conflict in Ireland. It's in that light that the problem needs to be addressed.
13

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 08:30:04
The Irish government should have left well alone. Both sides are as bad as each other. If a bunch of grown men want to chant wee songs at each other, let them. Why anyone would get upset by a reference to something that happened nearly 150 years ago beats me. Sticks and stones etc. And I speak as a descendant of someone who came over on the famine boat, before anyone gets into my mince (with no tatties, of course).
14

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 09:11:39
#9

So a group of Scots Irish football supporters singing a song poking fun at other Scots Irish football supporters tells you that endemic anti-Irish racism is rife in Scotland? Err, right. Your username suggests you live in Australia. I would respectfully suggest there is far more blatant, sinister and widely-accepted state-sponsored racism throughout your adopted country.

As for the The Famine Song's suggestion that the influx of Irish immigrants since the late 19th century has brought nothing but shame and trouble to Scotland, this is of course unfair. Consider what else the song could have mentioned: divisive single-faith schooling, the reawakening of a shamed extremist cult masquerading as a Christian religion and, with it, tacit acceptance of appalling sexual abuse of children; all of which came to Scotland with them.

One thing does puzzle me: the Irish immigrant population appears to have suffered a terrible time throughout their time in Scotland, having (apparently) been victims in the past of discrimination in housing and employment. Now, they tell us, they're being victimised in song at the country's football grounds. Why would anyone choose to raise children in a country where they know they won't be given a fair chance? To put it another way, Irish immigrants clearly feel institutionally discriminated against in cold, wet, unhealthy, impoverished Scotland. If so, the question does indeed lend itself: why don't they go home? Why would anyone choose to stay in a country where they don’t feel at home and where there's so much to complain about?

Seems very odd to me.
15

wuggles,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 09:15:15
Perhaps the TDs in Dublin,in the interest of parity, could also ask the Scottish Parliament to crack down on the Pro IRA songs sung by the celtic support at all games.


Oooops!Silly me,that's not sectarian, that's political.

Sectarianism in Scotland is a one way street.
16

eric,

lothian 12/10/2008 09:16:29
Mr defoe said Glasgow was the prettiest little town in britain,He returned 10yr later after the 1st wave of irish and said it was the ghetto of europe.the irish that did come left for England they were not welcome at all,so the connection is small,we have has union with france and now England for over 300yrs,so we are all more entwined with the english culturally and financially,its all blown out of proportion.
17

eric,

lothian 12/10/2008 09:42:39
what are we going to do burn mr defoes history books
18

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 09:46:04
"Alan Shatter TD said some of his constituents who had travelled to the game from Ireland had complained about what he described as "offensive anti-Irish songs". He added: "The singing of such songs is a regular event and has caused fear and concern to Irish residents and their children who on occasion visit Glasgow for such football matches."



Aw diddums - did these poor little children not feel 'fearful or concerned' when some of those jolly craicsters sitting next to them were singing about a group who blew up children and pregnant women?

Was there any 'fear or concern' about the death threats to an opposition player?

Or was it, as usual just selective 'fear and concern' like their selective offendedness.






As for "The song also refers to how the Irish in Scotland have brought the country "nothing but trouble and shame"" - well i've not misse a Rangers game home or away for years and its the first time i've heard this line mentioned.


Why does no one take these biased reporters to task?


And why do these self same reporters not confront the Celtic Chairman about the serious allegations in this clip?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG4u4Wy28H0

Why indeed?

19

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 09:54:37
Eddie Barnes true colours get exposed in The Scottish Media monitor

"Reporter Eddie Barnes, working for that voice of muscular Christianity, the Scottish Daily Mail, pursued the religionists' tired message in another story over the "sordid sex education booklets". Even moral campaigners admit they've not found one instance where the packs, Primary Schools Sex and Relationships Education and Taking Sex Seriously have been used in Scottish schools. These were Eddie Barnes's worst nightmare. "Among other suggestions, the booklets tell teachers to give five-year-olds lessons on the names of sex organs and get 11-year-olds to role-play being homosexuals". (What a damn good idea! Children decorating Raploch with flower-baskets; chilled cabinets of Chardonnay in Haddows; tables and chairs outside Greggs; an Ikea in Castlemilk; Executive-funded cat refuges... Where do I sign)?"

http://www.scottishmediamonitor.com/articles2.cfm?ID=113

A journalist pursuing an agenda?

Looks like it
20

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 10:05:05
More objectivity where Mr Barnes shows his true colours

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/12637/Eddie-Barnes--Cross-with.4283428.jp

The term 'Tims with typewriters' springs immediately to mind.
21

W Smith,

Middle East 12/10/2008 10:10:04
No mention of the following:

1) Known IRA members have, over many years, attended games at Parkhead.

No comments from John Reid you'll notice who used to get drunk with Salmond's friend George Galloway and sing sectarain songs!

2) Video clips on youtube showing SOME Celtic fans singing IRA songs in Newcastle and Manchester with not a Rangers fan in sight.

3) Comments left by Celtic fans on youtube clips of Old Firm games showing some, not all, Celtic fans give as good as the get as far as bigotry is concerned.

Those Celtic fans who are bone idle spongers are 'victims' of an overly generous Social Security system in the UK.

They know damn well that if the return to their beloved homeland the pay-outs are not so generous and they actually might have to go out and work for a living.

Like all the other immigrants in Scotland if you're not happy then leave.

PROBLEM SORTED!

BTW
In my experience the genuine Irish folks are less anti-British than the Plastic Paddy's who turn up at Parkhead.
22

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 10:11:41
"In my experience the genuine Irish folks are less anti-British than the Plastic Paddy's who turn up at Parkhead"


Mine too - I suspect Mr Barnes is one of the latter
23

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 10:15:27
Thousands of British people including many Scots are welcomed with open arms in Ireland should they choose to travel there despite the fact that the British oppressed the Irish for 800 years and killed enough Irishmen to make the number of Republican victims seem like a drop in the ocean.

What a shame that many in Scotland are prepared to cling to imagined historical events and stereotypes in order to justify there hatred of anything Irish or Catholic.

The "famine song" has been declared racist by Show Racism the Red card, the body responsible for monitoring racism in Scottish football,Kick it Out, the body responsible for monitoring racism in football in the UK, Searchlight, the orginisation responsible for monitoring Nazi orginisations in the UK as well as countless politicians from all parties.

This should be enough to stop any reasonable person singing it but sadly the anti-Irish sentiment, as shown in many of the posts above, seems to be prevailing.

One Scotland many Cultures Except if you're Irish
24

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 10:18:05
#22

I respectfully suggest you confront your own pig ignorant racism and bigotry before inviting anyone to leave Scotland.
25

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 10:20:21
~24 - Great rhetoric being spouted by the terminally offended.
26

Ursus arctos horribilis,

12/10/2008 10:26:05
On behalf of the thousands of innocent men, women and children murdered in cold-blood by the IRA-an organisation habitually celebrated by the Celtic supporters each week in their vile sectarian songs-I would like to state that I am also deeply offended.

I am also offended that these MOPES are offended and that an obvious pyshe-take should be used to try and score points beggars belief-and I say that as someone with family who left County Down for Glasgow in the mid-19th century so spare us the crocodile tears.

From personal experience I always reckoned "real" Irish people were endowed with more commonsense and perspective than the blinkered MOPE WOS plastic wanabees-whose mindsets are still planted back in another era. However if the Eire government-who should have more important things on their plate to worry about such as an economy floating down the Liffey- wishes to poke its neb it -let it be at least try and be even -handed and condemn the virtual IRA-fest that is present at Celtic away matches.
27

Alex Scott,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 10:26:43
#24 Big Stevie,

As I am sure you are aware, the chant referred to is not directed against genuine Irish people.

It targets the faux Irish, pro-IRA contingent within the Celtic support.

Indeed, it makes a perfectly reasonable point - if you hate Britain and Scotland so much and pine for a foreign land, why don't you leave?
28

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 10:35:52
#24

Aah Stevie, what a quality post.Ignoring the questions, changing the subject plus a healthy does of whataboutism thrown in. Great stuff.

Irish people are among the nicest in the world, genuinely. They're more than welcome in Scotland. What's less welcome is the narrow-minded, whining dependency-culture bigots who move to the backwater that is Scotland and stay there for decades, rearing generations of children to grow up there and telling everyone who'll listen how awful the place is.

If you do live in Sydney, do you spend all your time complaining about how hot the weather is, how many dangerous animals there are and how the locals are all racists? If you did, I wonder what the reaction of the locals would be? I'm guessing three words: "****", "off" and "home".

Scotland accepts many cultures but we won't accept parasites who do nothing but bite the hand that feeds.

Irish immigrants: they hate the Crown but love the half-crown.
29

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 10:37:10
30

What pray tell in your considered opinion constitutes a genuine Irish person.

Its not Scottish Celtic "faux Irish" fans that are complaing to the Irish government, its ordinary Irish citizens who are being racially abused when they visit a supposed friendly neighbour.

If the point is perfectly reasonable then why have so many anti-racist orginisations declared it a racist chant.

30

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 10:41:54
#31

Are you really suggesting in all seriousness that the Irish community in Scotland is entirely made up of "narrow-minded, whining dependency-culture bigots ".

Do you really wonder why you are being labelled racist.

Glasgow is the only major city in the world with a significant Irish immigrant population that doesnt have a Famine memorial .

I wonder why
31

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 10:57:04
34

Perhaps "Plastic Paddy" has no wish to leave Scotland. Perhaps he is already home and merely wishes to practise his religion and celebrate his ethnic origin in peace without being thrown under a blanket stereotypes like "Plastic Paddy" and without half witted racists inviting him to "go home" and attempting to pass it off as banter.
32

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 10:57:08
Stevie, no-one is labelling me racist. Anyone who does will hear from my lawyers. I suggest you retract this suggestion and apologise immediately.

To answer your question, if the Celtic support, their paid apologists in the press and hate-driven mesaggage-baord contributors like you are representative of the Irish in Scotland, what on earth do you think our impression of Irsh people is? I would say my description is pretty apt.

It seems you have no idea just what an appalling image you portray of the people of a wonderful country.
33

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 10:59:57
Poor Stevie - stuck out there in Sydneyshire scouring the internet to be offended.

How lonely a life must he lead?


Maybe he should come home to get offended.
34

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 11:01:24
#35 - Stevie eventually plays the 'religion card'


He's been dying to do it and the only surprise is it took him so long.
35

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 11:03:57
#35

But Stevie, how could Plastic Paddy possibly not want to go home when Scotland is such a bigoted, anti-Irish toilet?

How's this for a new song for Celtic to sing:

We want to stay here
We want to stay here
Coz you're all such racists
We want to stay here
36

Ursus arctos horribilis,

12/10/2008 11:04:46
#19 wee Fred good points-nice to know something of our so-called journalists' backgrounds.

Bearing in mind this perhaps our intrepid reporter is slightly twisting the Irish Government's position to suit his own agenda.

In view of the current economic crisis facing the country and the threat of looming bankruptcy-what they really said -in a press release from the Irish Government:

"We don't want them back, keep them in Scotland, thats one group of bankers we are not bailing out".
37

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 11:09:16
Come on Stevie - you have played the racist and the nazi card - why did it take you so long to play the religious one?
38

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 11:12:23
By a lonely prison wall
I heard a young girl calling
Stevie they are taking you away
For you stole Trevelyn's corn
So the young might see the morn.
Now a prison ship lies waiting in the bay


By a lonely prison wall
I heard a young man calling
Nothing matter Mary when your free,
Against the Famine and the Crown
I rebelled they ran me down
Now you must raise our child with dignity.


By a lonely harbor wall
She watched the last star falling
As that prison ship sailed out against the sky
Sure she'll wait and hope and pray
For her love in Botany Bay
It's so lonely 'round the Fields of Athenry.






Was that you Stevie?
39

,

12/10/2008 11:13:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
40

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 11:14:17
Nil By Mouth - The organisation which decreed you can cut green grass in a sectarian fashion.


Forgive me if I dont take them seriously.
41

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 11:27:26
I note Justice Minister Kenny McKaskill is going to 'root out sectarianism in sport'


Maybe he should start by rooting it out in society 1st.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2274383.stm





But then that wouldnt suit Eddie Barnes and his mates.
42

london calling,

12/10/2008 11:29:40
#33

I disagree there is a famine memorial in Glasgow,
known as the Stade Maris Piper aka Celtic park..
It must be as the fields of athenry is played every second week to placate all who want to be reminded...
43

The Sentry,

Meadow close 12/10/2008 11:31:49
I had a pint with a city brief over the weekend and he has said that while the song can been seen as offensive or bad taste to some it is nothing more and doesn't even come close to being rascist.
The Scottish government are having talks on all sectarian issues which was pre-arranged and not just because of a TWO line song.
It is no worse than FOS and that is an adopted anthem in his legal opinion.
On the other hand ,the anti British bile from some other clubs would certainly be brought under the microscope.


Molloy is a coward
44

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:03:59
15
wuggles,
Glasgow 12/10/2008 09:15:15
Perhaps the TDs in Dublin,in the interest of parity, could also ask the Scottish Parliament to crack down on the Pro IRA songs sung by the celtic support at all games.


Oooops!Silly me,that's not sectarian, that's political.

Sectarianism in Scotland is a one way street.


yea if you read some of the above comments and be honest about this bigotry, the biggest majority of sectarianism comes from the orange side. its not just football, its walks, unionism and the like that is keeping all this going, the seperate schools issue is one that makes me weep at times, the only reason i can see for the orange side to call for there abolition is to stop the like between the church and schools, meaning no more catholics ie. a form of ethnic cleansing.

both sides of this divide should have a long hard look at where this is going, independence should help but you will have the diehards who continue to bring up their children will bigotry.

its time to stop, its time
45

O sole mio,

Salford 12/10/2008 12:04:49
The Famine Song is not sectarian; it is RACISM. I do hope that the Irish force the Scottish Establishment, which has ignored this issue for so long, to confront it head on. Heads should role immediately at the SFA and SPL which have done NOTHING.

One would hope that Willie Haughey, who comes from the despised community and who is reputedly bailing out the SFA by sponsoring the Cup, would demand that any team which indulged in such singing should not be allowed to entry the tourney.
46

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 12:06:33
42

The term h*n is clearly not sectarian as supporters of most Scottish Clubs use the tern to describe Rangers fans and Nil by Mouth is an orginisation that after being founded for all the right reasons has completely lost its way.

As for your "bigot bhoy" comment please point to something bigotted I have written or else keep your bile to yourself.

48

If the song is not racist then why have pretty much every anti-racism body in the UK declared it as such.

And if this song is merely to "wind up" Celtic fans for their perceived obssession with Irishness then why is it being sung every time Rangers play regardless of the opposition.

Or perhaps the Motherwell and Kimarnock supports are full of "Plastic Paddies" as well.
47

Sam Carson,

Great Britain 12/10/2008 12:11:46
WHY DONT YOU GO HOME?, WHY DONT YOU GO HOME? THE FAMINE IS OVER, WHY DONT YOU GO HOME?

Listen up Irish immigrants: if you want to live in this country, you will abide by our laws, culture and beliefs. To the majority who do, you are more than welcome to stay here and contribute to society as you have done so valiantly since your ancestors arrival.

See to the celtic supporting, IRA sympathisers, who sing of blowing up this country, who chant "Get the Brits our now!", who revel in songs supporting the death of this countries head of state, who sing another countries NATIONAL ANTHEM before games...

See to all those people who seem to hate this country so bloody much... WHY DONT YOU GO HOME?

If I asked an Al Qaeda bomber to go home... or better yet, someone who was walking around Glasgow singing in support of the Al Qaeda (A terrorist organisation, just like the IRA) to go home, would I be racist or a proud Nationalist?

To all those in support of the IRA and who love Ireland more than the country they are in, all we are asking is "Why don't you go home?"

To all those who are happy where they are and integrate into Scottish society... all we are saying is "Enjoy your stay, however long it may be."

End of debate. Lets bury this racist tag once and for all.
48

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 12:16:39
52

And right on cue comes a snapshot of the ignorant racism that the Irish community in Scotland have to deal with.

"laws, culture and beliefs" so thats what was going on in Manchester.

49

Jo Jo,

12/10/2008 12:23:34
Boo hoo....let's all get offended by a ditty sung in jest at plastic paddies.
There is obviously an art form to being "offended" and the plastic paddies have got it down to a tee.
Racist.....aye right...just coz John "The choir master" Reid says so.
Those people with an ounce of common sense and indeed a sense of humour know the song is directed towards those who hate the country they reside in.who hate the laws,the customs,the religion and the beliefs.
It is not racist or sectarian to sing a song like those to those who want rid of you in your own country.Who want their religious beliefs and ideals to come before those already established with the majority.
This is nothing but a sinister twist in the clandestine attempts to have Rangers FC and their fans ostracised from football.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

All you easily offended plastic paddies should remember that and get your own vile house in order first before you point the finger elsewhere.
50

Sam Carson,

Great Britain 12/10/2008 12:35:00
51, Big Steve,

So you refute point blank that my claims of asking people who hate the country that feeds them and looked after them in their time of need, who sing songs of blowing it up, why dont they go home?

Do you not see why we are asking them why they don't go home if they hate the country they are in so much?

Also, it's a question... not a statement. We are not saying "Go home" like Celtic fans sing at us, we are asking "Why don't you go home?"

Big Steve, you are a bhigot son. Jog on go home you ta**ig!
51

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:35:50
Jo Jo

give it a rest, whats the matter most rangers fans thing england and britan is their home country so by default you are staying in a non-country so where is your home
52

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:38:14
Sam Carson,Great Britain

Big Steve, you are a bhigot son. Jog on go home you ta**ig!

and you are righteous, no sorry you are the bigot
53

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:41:34
is it not the fact that SCottish people are by definition 'mongrels' so we are all little bits of lots of different cultures the only true scotsmen are highlanders the rest of us are mongrels
54

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 12:41:56
54

Again I ask show me something I have said that is bigotted. Its not to much to ask.

At the risk of repeating myself why, if the song is not racist, has it been declared so by most if not all of the anti-racism watchdogs in the UK.

So you claimed earlier that the term h*n was sectarian yet you are now admitting to calling Celtic fans h*ns in the past. Eh ok then.

And dont worry I'm home already. Sydney is home to me now and a very nice one it is too . Not having to listen to cretins like you on a daily basis is a pleasant change.

55

Jo Jo,

12/10/2008 12:42:31
#57
That is your own personal and misguided opinion.

Not mine.

Proud Scot
Proud Briton.

Proud to share my country with others who respect it and respect the laws and beliefs.

To those who don't and are intent on causing trouble.

"Why don't you go home"

Regardless of where "home" happens to be.
56

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 12:44:48
56

Your calling me a bigot and a ta**ig in the same sentence.

I know its painfull but please try to think about it.
57

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:47:21
ok then JoJo whatever tickles your fancy, if being in the gang is it then who am i to belittle you.

Independance is the only way forward for Scotland and for all you brigadoon hating 'plastic Scotsmen/women' the end is nigh for your beloved union, up the revolution
58

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 12:48:39
Stevie, your bigotry is clear for all to see in your posts, particulalrly your attempts to whitewash use of the word "h*n".

The word "h*n", depsite its very different origins, is used today as a derogatory term for Protestants in republican communities in Scotland and Northern Ireland. That's why bigoted Celtic fans sing "Go Home Ya H*ns" to fans of Rangers, Hearts, Kilmarnock and Motherwell. Even the heavily pro-Catholic charity Nil By Mouth specifically refer to "h*n" as an unacceptable sectarian term. Why else would the word be banned on this forum?

The Celtic support contains bigots who sing sectarian songs. Get used to it and admit it, your denial fools no-one.
59

Keef Richards,

London 12/10/2008 12:49:08

Here are some "lyrics" from four different songs sung at Scottish football grounds.

1/ Go on HOME British soldiers go on home.

2/ Send them HOMEwards to think again.

3/ Go HOME ya h*ns, go home.

4/ The Famine's over, why don't you go HOME.


Why the fuss about only the last song.?
60

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:50:05
what about the clowns who brought shame to Scotland in manchester,singing bigoted songs en mass is that your vision for Scotland within the union, send all the taigs home and anyone else not a true loyal supported of 'british scottishness'
61

Jo Jo,

12/10/2008 12:50:13
I am in "gang"

If there is such a gang then it is the "Brigadoon" one you mention.

Independence.......If Alex Salmond is the messiah leading us to Independence then god help us.

He couldn't even manage his own finances thanks to his love of the horses (Allegedly)
62

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 12:52:06
So lets get this straight - The banner headline screams out

"Irish ministers join the battle to rid Scottish football of sectarian chanting"

Now we are being told its NOT sectarian its racist.

I wish these offended people would make up their mind what they are actually offended about.





Anyone care to comment on Bishop Devine and his observations that it was faith schools which "enabled sectariansm"?
63

dude,

12/10/2008 12:52:25
Even the heavily pro-Catholic charity Nil By Mouth specifically refer to "h*n" as an unacceptable sectarian term.

does that just take the biscuit, here is an organisation supported by all right thinking people in scotland and the anti-scotland brigade thinks it is a sectarian front, poor hard done by bigots
64

dude,

12/10/2008 12:55:29
He couldn't even manage his own finances thanks to his love of the horses (Allegedly)

more and more people are seeing his leadership as the way forward for scotland, if you cant see tha because of your british tinted glasses thats your problem but insults does not change the fact that since the SNP victory scotland has never had it so good, think how great it will be when independence finaly comes
65

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 12:55:57
Nil By Mouth is a wholly discredited sham charity. It is respected by no-one except the terminally stupid and the Celtic support. However, even NBM know a sectarian term when they hear it.
66

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 12:59:29
#43 said "yea if you read some of the above comments and be honest about this bigotry, the biggest majority of sectarianism comes from the orange side. its not just football, its walks, unionism and the like that is keeping all this going, the seperate schools issue is one that makes me weep at times, the only reason i can see for the orange side to call for there abolition is to stop the like between the church and schools, meaning no more catholics ie. a form of ethnic cleansing"




Theres none so blind as those who dont want to see.


The 'ethnic cleansing' comment took a while to get wheeled out.


Lets get this straight - Faith schools have been called "divisive" and "enabling sectarianism" by Bishop Devine.


Why should the state pay for something which is "divisive" and "enables sectarianism"?


Only in the mind of the West Coast dim could integration mean sectarianism and segregation be an "ethos".

The place for religion is church the place for education is school.

Integration not segregation.
67

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:59:41
wee fred

Anyone care to comment on Bishop Devine and his observations that it was faith schools which "enabled sectariansm"?

so what about when catholics were not even allowed school in ireland, all the bigots on the orange side all lay the blame of their personal bigotry onto the shoulder of others, if you are a bigot your a bigot nobody elses fault but your own
68

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 13:00:00
64

Please see post 54 regarding the use of the word h*n by Rangers fans. The word is used by supporters of almost every club in Scotland to describe Rangers fans and supporters of other clubs who are sympathetic to Rangers. It has been banned from this forum because Rangers fans complained about it. Its as simple as that.

You have no evidence of my bigotry apart from the fact I am defending the rights of the Irish community in Scotland to celebrate their ethnic roots free from persecution.

Have you any evidence at all that Nil by Mouth is "heavily pro-catholic". Please substantiate if possible.

And by the way I have never denied there are Celtic fans who sing sectarian songs.
69

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:00:42
Salmond plays the 'begging bowl' card


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7665462.stm
70

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 13:02:08
72

Catholic schools exist in every country in the developed world. Only in Scotland are they accussed of causing sectrianism.

Go figure.
71

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:02:12
"You have no evidence of my bigotry apart from the fact I am defending the rights of the Irish community in Scotland to celebrate their ethnic roots free from persecution"



"Persecution" "Ethnic Cleansing" "Human Rights" "Nazis" "Cry Wolf" "Wolf" "Wolf" "Wolf"
72

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:03:05
#76 - "Catholic schools exist in every country in the developed world. Only in Scotland are they accussed of causing sectrianism.

Go figure"



Ask Bishop Devine to "Go Figure" - it was him who said it.
73

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:03:11
The 'ethnic cleansing' comment took a while to get wheeled out.

never actually heard anyone say this comment its just a personal belief, if faith schools enable bigotry why does other country's such as England not have this problem except when brought in from outside
74

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:03:52
"Have you any evidence at all that Nil by Mouth is "heavily pro-catholic". Please substantiate if possible."


Sectarian grass cutting is a good start
75

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:04:33
"never actually heard anyone say this comment its just a personal belief, if faith schools enable bigotry why does other country's such as England not have this problem except when brought in from outside"


Perhaps you should ring Bishop Devine - he said it
76

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 13:05:20
77

Over 1 million people died during the potato blight at a time when the British were exporting food from Ireland. I'd say if the term were in use at that time Ethnic Cleansing was exactly what it was.
77

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:06:55
Sectarian grass cutting is a good start ?

what the hell does that mean
78

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

Donegal 12/10/2008 13:06:55
When I read many of the comments here I am truly glad that I went home to Ireland.

Such racism to Scotland's nearest neighbour.

Such sickness.

I truly cannot understand why more 2nd generation irish people in Glasgow did not come home in the 1990s to the booming economy as I did with my young family.


www.philmacgiollabhain.com
79

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:07:58
#77 In several prestigious US universities An Gorta Mor is taught under the heading of "Genocide Studies." FYI
80

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 13:08:51
78

He didnt say it caused sectarianism he said it enabled sectarianism. That is to say it allows people to be more comfortable discriminating against Catholics.

Again a simple question. Why only in Scotland are Catholic schools a problem.
81

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:08:52
grass is green
sky is blue
you are a knuckledragging bigot
and so are you
82

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 13:11:02
#60 Big Stevie

It's hardly bigoted to query the strange propensity of some Celtic fans to appear to favour a foreign country over the one they're born and brought up in. No-one is even hinting that Irish people aren't welcome to visit or come and live here. But as someone of Irish ancestry myself, it does grate to see so many Tricolours flying at Celtic Park. It's the flag of a foreign country. All the chant is saying is make up your mind and show a bit of loyalty to your country. Are you Scottish or Irish? Despite that Irish heritage, I am first, foremost and always a Scot. To all those who hark after the land of their forebears, whether it be Celtic supporters for Ireland, Muslim Mancunians for Pakistan, Glaswegian Jews for Israel or McLeods born in Brisbane for Scotland, all I say is, you know where the door is.
83

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:12:47
86 Big Stevie, Sydneyside 12/10/2008 13:08:51

He didnt say it caused sectarianism he said it enabled sectarianism. That is to say it allows people to be more comfortable discriminating against Catholics.

Again a simple question. Why only in Scotland are Catholic schools a problem.

dont let what the man actually said make any difference, if some of these bigots had any semblence of an education maybe most of this bigotry would not be here, if they all went to catholic schools where the standard of education is quite good then this would not be a problem
84

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:13:54
#88 It is because of attitudes like yours I am glad I did come home.
I feel sorry for your Irish neighbours
85

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 13:14:53
84

Your articles on this subject have been excellent. I take my hat off to you. i share your sentiments about the comments on this forum and I too am thankful every day I have removed my children from this poisonous racism.
86

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 13:17:14
Why should British people tolerate racist anti-British songs by Celtic supporters.?
87

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 13:19:20
Everyone knows the institutionalised sectarian apartheid education system is the root of bigotry in Scotland. End that and we'll be getting somewhere.
88

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:19:21
#91 I wish you and yours the very best down under.
For me the draw of Ireland was always too strong to go anywhere else-although for sure you live in a gorgeous country.
I hope ,in time, Scotland will deal with its anti-Irish demons.
A product of Victorianna that hasnt been expunged by modern scots.


FYI there will be more news breaking on this issue this week on the Irish Post and on my blog
www.philmacgiollabhain.com
89

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 13:21:44
94 Phil

I'll be checking out your site and blog and all the best to you.

Signing off for the night from Sydney.
90

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 13:22:08
#90 Phil

So I take it that someone of Anglo-Irish heritage in Ireland could quite happily head to a GAA ground and wave a Union flag around and sing Land of Hope and Glory without anyone taking exception? Come on. And by the way, me and my Irish neighbours get on very well, thank you very much. That's probably because we're civilised adults.
91

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:22:34
#93 Your visceral hatred shines thru-unpleasant.
Thankfully you and yours have no influence in Donegal :0)
92

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:22:46
Why should British people tolerate racist anti-British songs by Celtic supporters.?

Britan has a lot to answer for that is why an increasing majority of scots what nothing to do with this british thing anymore, and why we will have our independence, when britan is broken up back to its original country's then that question wont be relevant
93

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:24:05
no mate the root of bigotry in scotland is the orange order
94

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:25:39
#96 if you are civilsied as you claim then you will agree with me that the Famine Song is racist and should not be sung
95

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:26:27
#73 "so what about when catholics were not even allowed school in ireland"


Scraping the barrel now eh?
96

HeyPally,

12/10/2008 13:27:03
Glasgow is the knife-crime capital of Europe.

Other major issues which affect people's lives include poverty, drugs, alcoholism, obesity, vandalism, housebreaking, mugging, illiteracy. Old people are afraid to walk the streets at night because of youth disorder.

Men in some parts of Glasgow have a lower life-expectancy than men in third-world countries.

But what is the issue that concerns the MOPE, that has them complaining to foreign governments - a four line chant sung at a football match.

Do us all a favour, go home. You stupid, stupid people.



ps Molloy is a Coward.
97

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:29:50
Heres what Bishop Devine said

"Catholic education is "divisive" and contributes to the problem of "sectarianism", according to a Scottish bishop.

Now why should the taxpayer fund that?

Simple enough question which you should try and answer without any whataboutery.
98

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:30:39
#102 I did go home. In part becuase I di not want my children growing up near people like you.
I have 4 academic qualifactions and have taught in two universities.
So I dont think my evacuation from scotland in the mid-90s was the actions of a stupid man.

Others more openminded than yourself can go to

www.philmacgiollabhain.com

and make their own minds up.
99

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:30:56
Glasgow is the knife-crime capital of Europe.

Other major issues which affect people's lives include poverty, drugs, alcoholism, obesity, vandalism, housebreaking, mugging, illiteracy. Old people are afraid to walk the streets at night because of youth disorder.

yea and how much of this is sectarian related

wee fred

dont think it is scraping any barrel me old son, it is a historical fact
100

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 13:33:15
# 97

Yes, my wish for children of all races and faiths to be educated under the same roof is really "bigoted" isn't it.? LOL

What really hurts wee guys like Phil is that Ireland will soon be run by black immigrant Protestants. LOL
101

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:33:18
Answer the point the Bishop made dude

Try to concentrate on the one point without resorting to crying wolf or emotional rhetoric.
102

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:36:31
#106
I welcome the new multi-cultural Ireland and I have widely written about that.
I wouldnt, however, welcome another Cromwellian invasion or the re-imposition of British rule.
My grandparents fought the British and were,IMO, correct to do so.
103

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 13:36:34
#100 Phil

When TDs tell Celtic fans to stop chanting pro-terrorist slogans, I'll join you in your obvious sense of outrage. The Famine Song, as you call it, is not directed at Irish people as I see it. It is directed at Scots who don't seem to now what they are. If these people are so discriminated gainst, so hard done by and oppressed and so devoted to the country their ancestors came from generations ago, then they should follow youe example and go back.
104

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 13:37:00
Phil Mac, please join me in condemning the sectarian pro-terrorist chanting of the Celtic support, the appalling, sectarian-fuelled Catholic-on-Catholic threats to Nacho Novo's life by Celtic fans and the mass use of the sectarian term "h*n" by Celtic fans to describe Scottish Protestants. All of these acts occur daily without a hint of condemnation by the agenda-driven Scotish media.

Until you are prepared to condemnation these appalling acts, stick to your 6th from scrawlings and stay at home.

Cheers.
105

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 13:38:33
Still no answer as to why the Famine song is apparently "racist" but racist anti-British songs glorifying the murder of innocent British citizens by Irish terrorists are legitimate.? I thought not....
106

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:38:47
Celtic Fans - Offended, oppressed and guilt ridden from the cradle to the grave.
107

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 13:40:51
# 108

If your Grandparents " fought the British" why did you end up being born in Britain then.? The British apparently weren't the jackbooted Nazis after all then,eh.? LOL Hilarious stuff.....
108

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:41:02
107
Wee Fred,
12/10/2008 13:33:18
Answer the point the Bishop made dude

have you got a link to this article, its alright saying these things but is it for real, i think another poster answered you already when he said 'bishop devine said it enabled bigotry' that is different from saying it is the cause of it, now i think it is clear for you now, incidently did you read the article can you give me a link?
109

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:42:33
#109-this short radio piece will give you an idea of how this FS is playing here in Ireland.
Listen to Matt Cooper's tone of voice and questioning of me.

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.com/?p=72
110

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 13:46:11
You can just picture wee Phil in his Shellik tap staggering around at a Wolfe Tones concert with the rest of the brain dead. LOL
111

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:46:59
#113 My grandparents on my father's side -like my father-were from County Mayo.
Google the "Carrowkennedy ambush Mayo" my grandfather was one of the volunteers

My mother's people emigrated to scotland (Carlow & Donegal) in the 19th century.
Everywhere I go on this planet I am recognised and accepted as Irish-except in smallminded scotland.

I made the correct move in leaving.

112

Sam Carson,

12/10/2008 13:48:34
So why in this thread are the whole rangers support being made out to be bigots, when 60,000 Celtic fans singing in support of the IRA murdering nacho novo, 14,000 at Kilmarnock singing of the boys of the old brigade, 12,000 at Dundee United singing about British Soldiers going home... you catch my drift...

Why then are these clear majorities being made out to be a minority?

You see, we Rangers fans understand we have bigots in our midst and have done everything possible to get rid of them.

Celtic on the other hand... well they just deflect, deny and then deflect the fact they have just as big a problem - if not bigger - and refuse point blank to enter into any debate about the songs their support sing... instead opting to point the finger at the big bad proddies who are excluding them from communities.

If you don't like the country, why don't you go home???

Simple question, i would appreciate an answer... but I wont hold my breath as we've been asking for months only to be told we are bigots! LOL!

Go on... someone answer the question... here it is again:

"If you don't like Great Britain, why remain here???"

113

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:49:18
why is 'h*n' a sectarian term anyway is it not just a name for rangers supporters the same as 'tim' is used for cetic supporters
114

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 13:49:47
#115 Phil

I don't accept that the majority of Irish people harbour this sense of outrage that you, and apparently so many Celtic fans do. I have some Irish friends, I have Irish neighbours, I have visited Ireland several times, and I have rarely met anyone who still has a chip on their shoulder about the past. Yes, they are happy to be independent, they are angry about some aspects of the past, but they have moved on. They don't have to view every aspect of their Irishness through the prism of a sense of grievance and victimhood in relation to Britain.
115

HeyPally,

12/10/2008 13:51:07
#104

If you're so well-educated, don't you think it's stupid to be so offended by a four line chant sung at a football match.

Or are you well-educated but not well-balanced?

Thank God you and your unfortunate children don't live anywhere near me. I have a serious allergic reaction to sectarian bigots and hypocrites.
116

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:51:07
this is scotland you live in if you only see it as Britain(England) why dont you go home
117

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 13:51:09
# 118

Nobody cares about petty Irish criminals from last century. You still haven't answered why your family ended up in the country that your bold volunteers, ( don't laugh at the back) hated so much.? Why choose Britain...there was a whole world out there.! LOL
118

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:51:21
#116 I approve comments on my site that are
(1) Grammatically correct

(2) Non abusive

On my site you will find approved comments that fundamentally disagree with my POV.

Hardly the behaviour of a censor.

Aon rud eile I am not and never have been a member of any paramilitary organisation.
I rather suspect the providers of this site should consider the legality of your comment.
119

Sam Carson,

12/10/2008 13:51:23
Oh and Pat McGroin or whatever your name is...

What the hell are you doing on here? Looking to be offended as usual???

Everyone unhappy at being in Britain should follow Pat Mcgroins lead and go home.

That is all.

P.S. Some booming economy Pat... not long now until you're back over here looking for handouts.
120

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 13:53:03
# 123

You've got a British passport presumably.? Go figure...
121

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 13:53:38
#118 Phil

If you were one of those Scots who still see themselves as Irish, despite their families having been here since the 19th century, then I think many of us are glad you made the move. The girn level will have reduced just a wee bit as a result.
122

Sam Carson,

12/10/2008 13:53:39
123, dude, wishaw.

This is Britain you are in. Scotland of which is one part.

If you don't like it, go live in Lebanon.
123

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:54:47
#124 My fathers family did not come to scotland, my mother's family did.
The volunteers of 1916 and the War of Independence are correctly lauded.
Your government sends dignitaries and military officers to the GPO 1916 commemoration to pay their respects.
Every political party in Dail Eireann salutes the men & women of 1916 and the guerilla fighters of the war of independence.

the British government,now, correctly agrees with that stance.
124

Sam Carson,

12/10/2008 13:55:23
All rise for the national anthem of Great Britain and Northern Ireland:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnuoGOo3Bew

Does that make me a bigot? LOL!
125

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:55:52
#127-ask me the same passport question.
126

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:56:10
129
Sam Carson,
12/10/2008 13:53:39
123, dude, wishaw.

This is Britain you are in. Scotland of which is one part.

If you don't like it, go live in Lebanon.

typical unionist, embarrassed to call his country Scotland, what are you going to call it after independance?
127

wuggles,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 13:57:32
Phil the Fool,I'm glad you went home.
128

Sam Carson,

12/10/2008 13:57:37
Pat McGroin... outed for the racist bigot he really is!

Come on Pat... let's see you deflect, deny and re-deflect your way out of this...

129

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:58:24
#131 lets stick to legal citizenship.

I'm Irish.

as for the term "plastic paddy" you only use it because you know it is racist.

It is considered racist here in Ireland.

In PR terms this FS controversy is not showing Scotland in a good light outside of scotland.

More developments to come on this.
130

Alex Scott,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 13:59:34
Phil McGillivan has been at the heart of attempts to stir up trouble over one particular football chant, when much worse can be heard elsewhere in Britain. As stated previously, ‘the famine is over, why don’t you go home?’ (those are the only words sung!) is an ironic response to the maudlin sentiments expressed in ‘The Fields of Athenry’ and ‘Let The People Sing’ which are customarily followed by songs within the Celtic support celebrating the IRA.

Any offence taken over this chant is subjective. Several writers have pointed out that they do not find the chant especially offensive – especially when set against songs directed at Rangers fans. Is there a monopoly over just who can take offence?

Is it seriously being suggested by Phil McGillivan that the level of ‘anti-Irishness’in Scotland can be extrapolated from this chant? Has it not occurred to him that much of the Rangers support can claim Irish ancestry and that a significant proportion of the victims of the Irish potato famine were Protestants?

Sadly – but rather predictably – the brutal assault on a young Rangers supporter in Clydebank following the last Old Firm game failed to create more than a couple of lines in our newspapers, which seem to be preoccupied with this chant. Of course, even although the thugs wore Celtic shirts, the assault was described as ‘football-related’ and not ‘sectarian’.

Some of us are becoming just a little sick of Scotland’s double standards.
131

Sam Carson,

12/10/2008 13:59:39
132, dude,

I am proud to call this country Scotland... part of the bigger, exquisite country of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

What will I call it after Independence? If it ever happens, I guess I will call it "A Shame" and "A bloody slap in the face for our forefathers who fought so bravely to protect Britain in times of adversity... helped not but hindered from the amazing Irish"

What will you call it?
132

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:59:53
i have a british passport, so what britain is not a country but the forced integration of 3 country's by England,
133

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:00:09
#135 well I think we can both agree on this much:
I am home.
134

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 14:00:36
# 124

Whatever. But why come to stay in Britain, the so called hated enemy.? You really don't comprehend how silly your dinosaur stance is. Lol Thankfully the Irish have moved on long ago and the Orange Order receive thousands of Euros maintaining their properties and have an annual Government sponsored Garden Party in their honour.

135

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 14:01:35
#130 Phil

When have you heard any Scot (even some moronic Rangers fan) say that Ireland does not or did not have a right to self-determination and was wrong to leave the UK? None, I bet. The whole issue has nothing to do with anti-Irishness.
136

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:01:45
#140 your comments are racist against irish people.
137

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:02:59
#138 Please Alex,common courtesy, spell my name correctly when referring to me.
138

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 14:03:04
What wee Phil doesn't get is that the REAL Irish see the likes of him and the other headbangers with Celtic shirts at Wolfe Tones gigs as a national embarrassment. LOL
139

Sam Carson,

12/10/2008 14:03:08
142, Pat Mgroin,

If you are home, why the hell are you on a British website (Albeit ran by a bunch of See You Jimmy hat wearers) looking to be offended.

Stick to writing your bigot blog.
140

Sam Carson,

12/10/2008 14:03:59
145, Pat McGroin

HAHAHAHAHAH!

Are you gonna get the Irish Embassy on to him?
141

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 14:04:18
I will call it Scotland as i have always done, do you think that we are in the union for the benefit of Scotland, Scotland is a colonial part of England hence the scottish office, its time to put this criminal empire to bed once and for all.

most of scotland voted against illegal wars in iraq and afganistan our young men die in the name of 'britain' for lies told in the name of 'britain' the quicker the union is over the better for all of us
142

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:05:12
#144-I would take issue with that.
the secession of the 26 counties after a guerilla war was always something that would irk empire loyalists.
143

Sam Carson,

12/10/2008 14:05:18
dude, away a drink your super kestrel and bang on about the english battering you in 19canteen.

144

Sam Carson,

12/10/2008 14:06:17
Phil,

You are very selective in what you reply to are you not?

Just like most of your uber offended bigot pals.
145

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 14:06:31
ok sam as long as you stop going on about 1690

hahahahah
146

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:07:53
#147 Once more you dont seem to know me very well.
I have never been to a "wolfe Tone gig".
Moreover I never intend to be within earshot of one.
Altan would be more towards my musical taste.
Where I to possess any musical influence in this country the Wolfe Tones would never be heard of again.
Quite simply they sound awful:0)
147

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 14:08:51
Still no reply as to the racist anti-British songs by Celtic supporters.?

# 150

You really believe Braveheart was a documentary, don't you.? LOL Scotland "colonised"....that always makes me chuckle.
148

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 14:10:18
# 156

I'd brush up on your Irish history as well. Its very poor.....
149

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 14:10:36
maybe super kestrel is your kind of drink but i prefer a nice bottle of chardonney or single malt, when independance comes we can all just stop this nonsence once and for all the more press this type of thing generates the more they will do it, if all the football grounds in scotland started playing music louder than the cretins spouting this sectarian chanting they might just stop.
150

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 14:11:40
will you be chuckling come independance or running home to england
151

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 14:11:55
#151 Phil

Genuinely without offence meant, only in your grievance-wracked imagination. The vast, vast majority of Scots and other Britons were and are really too busy getting on with their lives to bother what Ireland did or does. Their was no national grief when you seceeded. And it would be the same if Scotland left, the majority of English people wouldn't give a t*ss.
152

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 14:13:26
#160 Como Toes

Ditto. My point exactly.
153

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 14:14:11
# 161

The Scots live off the backs of the English taxpayer. They know that as well, so no idependence. LOL
154

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 14:14:17
colonial outpost = scotland in the eyes of the british establishment

we are second class subjects of a foriegn country, not even citizens bloody subjects of a rotten british monarchy
155

chedwardall,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 14:14:42
The same old recycled bile from both sides. I never realised such intelectual giants read this quality Sunday.
156

london calling,

12/10/2008 14:15:33
137

Did you not campaign for the provo-snp in the east end of Glasgow?
Your words not mine...
A strange political path to take for one who's heart is in the old country.
Do you also condemn the sectarian songs sung by celtic supporters, or is sectarianism a oneway street in the world of Phil Mac Giolla Bhain ?
157

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 14:17:18
provo-SNP thats a new one, i think that is taking it too far, because the SNP what out of the union does not make them bigots,i dispare
158

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:17:28
#160 I repect your decision to reside where you wish and to self-define your nationality.
I ask for the same respect in return.

"Plastic Irish Go Home, The Famine's Over!!"

Does not read as being respectful.

The Famine is indeed over, although we here in Ireland and in the worldwide diaspora are still dealing with the demographic and psychological aftermath.

The FS controversy does not show your country in a good light at all.

Famine memorial groups around the world are appalled that this song is regularly sung and that your government has yet to act.

159

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:18:48
#164 I am an Irish citizen and you sir, sound like a racist.
160

Iain-McGowan-72,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 14:19:58
It's interesting that Phil Mac Giolla Bhain claims this is not painting Scotland in a good light. I would say that foul, pro IRA songs and "soon there will be no Protestants at all" sung under the guise of Irishness doesn't paint the Republic of Ireland in a good light yet this goes on every week at Celtic Park and on their travels.

So that begs the question: are the ministers and social commentators as concerned about raising this in parliament or is this solely a one-way street?
161

HeyPally,

12/10/2008 14:20:04
Mad Phil and the other nutter from Wishaw - what is it you really want. What would satisfy you and stop your whinging?

Be honest now. No outdated pseudo-intellectual claptrap about the Famine and non-existant anti-Irish oppression in modern Scotland.

What is it you really want?
162

london calling,

12/10/2008 14:20:28
169
Phil's words not mine.....
163

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:22:25
#164
"Phil's not Irish - he's a wannabe Irishman with an anglicised name that he changed to suit his plasticity.

Isn't that right, Mac??"
I think the word you were fumbling for is "gaelicised".
I use the Irish form of my name as did my father-an Irish speaker from west Mayo-very common thing in Ireland-it identifies one as an irish speaker.
an dTuigean tu sin?

164

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 14:22:53
There is no mocking of any victims of the Famine in that song. That not one person has been arrested or ever will be arrested for singing it says it all. Time to move on.....
165

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:24:55
174-the term "Provo SNP" was coined by members of the labour party-read the article.
the term originally appeared in print in a feature article in the Scotsman written by Robbie Dinwoodie.
So,in no way, is it my coinage.
Soprry to spoil your "thesis" with facts.
166

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:25:38
#176
You maybe premature with your boast of impunity.

Developments to come on that
167

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:28:14
#172 the chants you refer to are appalling and should stop
168

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:30:42
#172 do YOU think that the FS controversy is good PR for scotland?
I'm sure you will,if take a minute to consider it, that the FS issue is an embarassment to many scots.
Alasdair Allan MSP, for example.
I interviewed him last week and he was unequivocal about the racist nature of the famine song and that the FS should never be heard again.
169

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 14:33:12
# 178

The Procurator Fiscal will not touch this with a bargepole. The SPL or SFA won't either as the Scottish anthem Flower of Scotland which contains the line about " sending them HOMEwards to think again" will see thousands in court. LOL

You're living in fantasy land....
170

Iain-McGowan-72,

12/10/2008 14:36:29
#180. I think trying to debate the point with people that are so desperate to be offended at anything and everything means this situation so quickly descends into absurdity.

I'll ask again: is the pro-IRA stance and anti-Protestant bigotry performed under the veil of Irishness good PR for the RoI and, if not, are the parliamentarians going to raise this and publically condemn Celtic fans for painting a foul image of the country?
171

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:36:32
#181 I wouldnt be to sure on that:0)
I wont break my own scoop on someone else's newspaper.

Developments to come............
172

london calling,

12/10/2008 14:37:50
177
Correct.. but the term "provo snp" must surely have a place in your heart ?
I see you have declined to answer the second point, so I will ask you again... Do you condemn sectarian songs that are sung by celtic supporters?
173

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 14:38:52
There are NO developments...not now or ever on football songs being criminalised in Scotland. LOL

Celtic fans would be first in the dock for sectarianism and racist chants.
174

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:42:54
#182 you make a good point apropos the chanting of celtic supporters.
That club's Irishness is largely around the story of the Famine and.,of course the nationalist narrative of 1916-1921.
those are events that presnet no problem for any party in dail eireann.
Moreover it is a veruy uplifting narrative than many around the world find attractive.
the substantive point around the FS remains.
it is racist.
Show racism the Red card says so.
the Police have warned RFC about it.
RFC have warned their fans.
Any public representative in scotland I have contacted have stated that the FS is racist.
Stop wriggling on a hook about this the FS is racist.
Now you either agree or disagree with that statement.
one more time.
The Famine Song is racist.
Until the song goes away the scrutiny of my journalism wont go away either.
175

Iain-McGowan-72,

12/10/2008 14:45:31
#186. What I want to know is why you're only addressing one side of this with such passion. If you can't see the one-sided, hypocritical stance you're taking by condemning this but refusing to publically condemn (and raise to this level) those who are making your country and its citizens out to be anti-Protestant, pro-terrorist bigots, why should any of us take anything you say seriously?
176

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 14:47:10
184. No the term merely amused me for its innacuracy.
I condemn any set of supporters for sectarian and/or racist chanting or behaviour.
we are approaching the 20th anniversary of the appalling treatment of Mark Waletsr by celtic fans-utterly sickening.
Just like the Famine Song choir-the banana throwers were hardly a tiny minority.
The treatment of Mark Walters was racist and the famine Song is racist.
One more for the hard of learning the Famine Song is racist.
this one will go to court.

Just as the bannana throwers should have
177

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 14:48:08
# 186

You still haven't anwered where the Famine song " mocks the victims".?

Celtic's " nationalist narrative". LOL More like the club founded by bigots for bigots.

Why don't Celtic fly the red-white St Patrick's saltire at their ground.? That was the flag used when they were spawned. LOL
178

HeyPally,

12/10/2008 14:52:45
Mad Phil is fond of labelling other people as racists.

I think Mad Phil is a Fascist.

Hitler, Goebells, Himmler, Mussolini, Franco, Salazar, Pinochet, Galtieri.

They all had one thing in common apart from being totalitarian, intolerant, brutal dictators who imposed their will on others by violence and terror.

Are you a Fascist, Phil?
179

london calling,

12/10/2008 14:58:03
188
Were you party with Spiers, in the complaint to UEFA
concerning the singing of the billy boys and trying to get Rangers banned from europe ?
180

Alex Scott,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 15:00:54
So, the ‘famine is over, why don’t you go home?’ is ‘racist’, is it?

Was comedian Alan Carr ‘racist’ when he said ‘the roads are built now, why don’t you f*** off home?’

Is the notion of ‘race’ here not rather tenuous given that 51% of Scottish Roman Catholics under the age of 35 have married outside their faith?

With regard to ‘anti-Irishness’, is Mr. McGillivan aware that at least one-quarter and possibly as much one-third of Irish immigration into Scotland comprised Protestants?

Or that a comparatively small proportion of all Irish immigration to Scotland took place during the potato famine?


Phil McGillivan and others have adopted the well-worn Sinn Fein/IRA tactic of exploiting victimhood to the utmost and hoodwinking gullible, third-rate politicians.

The fact remains that not one person has been arrested for chanting ‘the famine’s over’.


181

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 15:08:14
# 193

The Procurator Fiscal does not want the courts clogged with stupid non-cases of "racism" that will be thrown out one after the other. Wee deluded Phil just can't get to grips with that for some reason. LOL
182

london calling,

12/10/2008 15:21:18
188
With reference to the 'famine song'. I was disappointed to hear you on real radio last month, claiming that after an explanation from you to your daughters about the song they were upset. This would appear to be, you looking for a cheap sympathy vote!
183

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 15:45:21
Tangible NEW steps.

1. Remove Tricolour from Celtic Park flag masts

2. Ban Tricolour from being displayed in the ground (the Chinese managed it with far bigger crowds than they get at Celtic Park.

3. Remove the Union Flag from the Ibrox flag masts.

4. Ban Union Jack from the terraces of Ibrox, Tynecastle and anywhere it makes an appearance.

Terrace flags can carry the teams colours. rangers already have a large red, white and blue striped banner, perfectly acceptable.

Celtic can have a green and white banner (not gold = Tricolour in different form.

Those are radical, tangible steps, anything else is pure window dressing, i.e. deceit at the highest level, no doubt accompanied by gallons of crocodile tears.
184

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 15:47:31
ps Stamp out Celtic and Rangers bigotry and we will have less violence on our streets no matter how much the teens drink
185

london calling,

12/10/2008 15:53:34
197

stamp out bigotry then we will have no drug addicts,knife culture,domestic abuse,credit crunch
and war in the middle east..Jeezo
186

santa cova,

London 12/10/2008 15:55:40
Who in their right mind would take these bigoted Scottish loyalists seriously? These people totally depend on England and the English people for their very survival.Unlike the people they scorn,these Scottish serfs are prepared to be subservient to a government from another country(England),pay homage to a monarch from another country and take as theirs the flag of another country.They can be regularly heard singing English war songs (the songs of their masters). So! until the day arrives that Scotland is in control of her own destiny,may I suggest that these subservient Scottish serfs continue to please their English masters by waiting for the crumbs from John Bull's table,keep their heads down and continue to be what they presently are,ie second class Englishmen with Scottish accents.

Pity the ignorant!
187

Enrico,

Under A Union Jack 12/10/2008 15:55:45
So long as The United Kingdom, Protestantism and Glasgow Rangers exist, people like Phil Ma Crack In will find something to be offended about. It's pathetic.
188

london calling,

12/10/2008 16:02:10
199
Ironic post that your location is London.......
189

santa cova,

London 12/10/2008 16:03:45
#196 The colours on the flag of Ireland are GREEN--WHITE and ORANGE and not "gold" The flag is meant to represent the two main cultures on the island of Ireland,with peace between them being signified by the white betweem.

I am sure that you would agree that this flag has non sectarian credentials. If some people wish to flaunt this flag in a sectarian fashion ,then the problem exists in their ignorant minds and not with the aforementioned flag.
190

santa cova,

London. capital to Scotland's serf loyalists 12/10/2008 16:05:24
#201 Whats ironic about living in London?
191

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 16:06:25
# 199 santa cova

Did you steal that from Braveheart as well.? LOL What a dope.!

From Engerlund too.! Ha-haaaaaa...
192

santa cova,

London 12/10/2008 16:07:28
#201 Are you trying to suggest that Scottish people have no right to live and work in London?
193

santa cova,

London 12/10/2008 16:09:03
#204 I can see that I have hit a nerve with a Scottish serf(rangers supporter)
194

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 16:09:37
# 205

If you hate England that much stop poncing from them. Stop yer tickling Jock.! LOL
195

london calling,

12/10/2008 16:13:00
Nothing from me as i live there.
Your anti-english drivel is ironic "awaiting crumbs from john bulls table"
It sounds a bit Sean Conneryish vote for independence
but don't ask me to live there..
Aiden McGeady has a scottish accent ironic really isn't it
196

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 16:14:45
The tricolour, so beloved of the fascists who tried and failed to overthrow the democratic process in Northern Ireland. Not surprised to see Celtic's infamous extremist right-wing supporters love this flag.
197

santa cova,

London 12/10/2008 16:15:16
189 Keef... Your ignorant bigotry justies everything I have been saying about the ignorant second class English serfs who call themselves rangers supporters. Remember that England is your masters and dont you forget if......serf!
198

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 16:17:35
# 210 santa cova

Don't get angry now. That little vein in the side of your bigoted head is about to go POP.! LOL
199

london calling,

12/10/2008 16:18:12
210
So i will treat you as my serf..[scotsman in london]
Ironic really is it not.?
200

santa cova,

London 12/10/2008 16:19:54
I work and live in London but thats where my allegiance ends. Unlike the Scottish slaves (rangers supporters)I have my pride in being Scottish and unlike those ignorant bigots from ibrox I dont feel that I have to bend the Knee to my "English masters"
201

santa cova,

London Mecca to the rangers serfs 12/10/2008 16:22:58
#212 You can treat me as a serf if I behave like a serf. As I do not behave like a rangers supporter that would disqualify me as being a serf.
202

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 16:24:19
# 213 santa cova

You seem to have an inbuilt inferiority-complex towards my English brothers. Not surprising, really.! LOL

Keep up the good work.!

203

london calling,

12/10/2008 16:24:45
213
Have you just watched "Braveheart" ,whilst indulging in the intoxicating delights of buckfast,as you sound like a serf from the fields of culloden..
204

,

12/10/2008 16:38:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
205

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 16:41:28
london calling

a 21st century Scotland, free of the union, free from bigotry, free from the butchers apron yes its time
206

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 16:48:23
All these anti sectarian crusaders and not one of them willing to comment on Bishop Devines observation that catholic education is "divisive" and contributes to the problem of "sectarianism"

Is it just one form of sectarianism which so appalls them?

Come on bhoys - admit it, segregation in Education should be eradicated because it is divisive and contributes to sectarianism.

All at the taxpayers expense as well.
207

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 16:50:04
no he said enables sectarianism, and he meant it gives a target to neanderthals like youself
208

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 16:50:50
and we all pay taxes even the catholics
209

,

12/10/2008 16:51:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
210

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 16:53:23
well said that man
211

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 16:54:29
Without English money Scotland would cease to function. Even the thickest know that. LOL
212

london calling,

12/10/2008 16:55:45
217
Celtics child abuse=rioting rankers=scotlands shame
celtic 1 point from 45=rioting rankers=scotlands shame
Drug/alcholism=rioting rankers=scotlands shame
"Calton"male life expectancy=rioting rankers=scotlands shame..

Blame deny deflect


213

,

12/10/2008 16:56:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
214

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 16:57:00
The sooner an all Brtish soccer team happens the better. All get behind the red,white and blue.! LOL
215

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 16:58:34
#220 - He said "Roman Catholic schooling is divisive"


How much more would you like it spelt out?


One Scotland - many cultures except the RC one which is divisive and controlling.


I certainly dont want my kids or Grandkids going anywhere near people like this who are spread over the globe wreaking havoc with childrens futures.


http://bishop-accountability.org/member/index.jsp


If the Boy Scouts had the same amount of convictions as the RC Church they would have been shut down years ago.


But we just let them carry on running educational establishments at taxpeyers expense.


Unbelievable.


216

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 16:59:26
#226 "219 Fred. I agree with much of what you say.Would you then consider that the sectarian British act of settlement 1701 is anti Catholic and divisive,and has no place in a modern society"


Yes - agree 100%


Luckily this affects very few people.
217

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 16:59:31
# 226 Ribbonman

How can the Act Of Settlement be anti-Catholic when certain Protestants can't also be Monarch...only C of E.? Get educated, fool! LOL
218

,

12/10/2008 17:00:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
219

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 17:00:57
#222 - " 222
Ribbonman,
12/10/2008 16:51:59
london calling.

Keep out of the affairs of my country. We intend to get full Independence in the near future,so shut your gob you idiot"





Anyone spot the irony of this comment on an article where a foreign Government is meddling in the affairs of Scotland?
220

london calling,

12/10/2008 17:03:24
Ribbonman

Do you suggest that i go home then.......?
221

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 17:05:41
# 231

No, it only proves you are as intellectually challenged as he is. LOL

Its not difficult for most...Monarch = Governer of the C of E. Glad that's all explained. Anything else you need educated on.? LOL
222

,

12/10/2008 17:05:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
223

london calling,

12/10/2008 17:07:45
235
Not in my life time serf.......
224

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 17:09:25
# 232 Wee Fred

Don't confuse them with reality. LOL They are marvellous entertainment though.
225

,

12/10/2008 17:12:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
226

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

Donegal 12/10/2008 17:14:16
#200
"So long as The United Kingdom, Protestantism and Glasgow Rangers exist, people like Phil Ma Crack In will find something to be offended about. It's pathetic"

Enrico why do you resort to such abuse?
Resepct my roght to a view and I do yours.
"Phil Ma Crack" the name on my passport is
Phil Mac Giolla Bhain
it is a passport of the Republic of Ireland.

Please respect that. In doing so you will in no way diminish your own identity or nationality by respecting mine.

Try it.
227

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 17:18:02
# 238 Ribbonman

An RC, Hindu, Muslim,certain Protestants, etc, cannot be the Governor of the C of E. Its not a difficult concept for most....but for you maybe. LOL

228

Alba Abú,

12/10/2008 17:27:48
240 Keef. It is obvious that you have not read the British act of settlement 1701
Ribbonman seems to have dismantled you.
229

london calling,

12/10/2008 17:28:59
239
Were you party with Spiers, in the complaint to UEFA
concerning the singing of the billy boys and trying to get Rangers banned from europe?
230

Iain-McGowan-72,

12/10/2008 17:29:02
Phil,

I notice you haven't responded to the question regarding the hypocrisy of your stance with this situation.

The image portrayed by Celtic fans of your country and its citizens is one of anti-Protestant, pro-terrorist bigots, all done under the veil of Irishness, but this doesn't seem to concern you at all.

Why isn't this issue being raised with the Irish government when one would think it to be far more pressing?
231

Media 1,

12/10/2008 17:58:29
Tri Colours represent a passion for England, not Scotland.

What would happen if a British muslim football team playing in the premiership flew muslim flags and showed their support for Al Qaeida?

Would the response be the same as a Scottish football team flying the Irish flag and showing support for the IRA?

And in both cases would it be unfair to ask these people to just go home?
232

Media 1,

cape town 12/10/2008 18:19:54
*the tri colour represents a passion for IRELAND, not Scotland*
233

london calling,

12/10/2008 18:23:25
239
Were you party with Spiers, in the complaint to UEFA
concerning the singing of the billy boys and trying to get Rangers banned from europe?
234

The Sentry,

Watching Molloy 12/10/2008 18:25:43
Phil

did your daughters cry when you explained that the songs the celtic fans sing were in support of a defeated army that blew up innocent kids and adults of all faiths but especially British Protestants?
Did your daughetrs cry when you told them of a young child killed in England when out buying a mother's day card?
Believe me and pay heed-you will get one almighty fight that will bring your kind down with us if need be.
The tears of my children will be my promise to you.
235

Pilrig,

Livingston 12/10/2008 18:27:37
239 - Speirs for once was spot on. The only time Moonbeam & co did any action aboot sectarian singing was when UEFA felt their collars.
Mair chance me becoming a lottery millionaire than the SFA tackling the Sisters and their bile.
236

Pilrig,

Livingston 12/10/2008 18:29:00
244 spot on and would be equally fair to ask the Red Hand mob to go home too.
237

Pilrig,

Livingston 12/10/2008 18:33:58
234 - it's only a matter of time (probably when Chuck becomes King) before the Act of Settlement is consigned to the dustbin of history.
Cue much angst and anger from the Wee Frees and the LOL, but for the rest of us, including I believe the majority of us Scottish Prods, the world wont have ended and life will go on as usual.
238

Media 1,

cape town 12/10/2008 18:35:05
#249 PILRIG

Scotland is part of the united kingdom, like it or not that is the facts.
So when Scots see fellow Scots flying flags that are against Scotland and Britain it will cause resentment..

So again!

If British muslims, like Scottish catholics are prone to support Al Qaeida and the IRA respectively what do you think is going happen?
239

Pilrig,

Livingston 12/10/2008 18:38:24
227 - jeez an actual supporter of the Mickey Mouse fitba XI for the 2012 Olympics Mickey Mouse fitba tourney!
Seems ye must have have hurt yer heid mair than supposed when ye fell oot of yon tree !
240

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 12/10/2008 18:39:18
I detect the stench of the Roman Catholic church in Ireland behind all this ridiculousness.

Why can't they just tend to their flocks, save souls, and molest parishioners of both sexes?

That seems to be their specialities.
241

Pilrig,

Livingston 12/10/2008 18:41:58
251 - am I arguing with you ?
I'm wondering what the relevance of Red Hand salutes and Northern Ireland flags are to Scottish fitba ?
No more than tricolours or IRA chants - or famine songs for that matter.
242

Pilrig,

Livingston 12/10/2008 18:47:43
256 - they get Corrie over there as well.
243

london calling,

12/10/2008 18:49:11
Pilrig

Your ignorance knows no bounds ,tbb has not been banned by UEFA..which will be the same with the FS.

Murray requested that Rangers fans self police and stop singing it..Which they did without compromise..

244

Pilrig,

Livingston 12/10/2008 18:57:41
258 - I presume UEFA don't regard DW's as sectarian ? Which explains why it was belted oot with gusto at Manchester and no UEFA knuckle-rapping followed.

Murray also requested that you desist from singing the Famine Song. I presume you will do so withoot compromise too ? And report the singers to the polis ?
245

jerrymanders,

12/10/2008 18:59:13
#247

"did your daughters cry when you explained that the songs the celtic fans sing were in support of a defeated army that blew up innocent kids and adults of all faiths but especially British Protestants?
Did your daughetrs cry when you told them of a young child killed in England when out buying a mother's day card?
Believe me and pay heed-you will get one almighty fight that will bring your kind down with us if need be.
The tears of my children will be my promise to you."

Of course you would add into this balanced argument to your children that "The Brits" slaughtered hundreds of thousands over 300 years of "terrorism" using their larger forces. Oh, and the fact that whilst Great Britain was the greatest power in the world it stood idly by whilst over a million died of starvation, on its doorstep.

Go read a bit of history, It might just shock you.
246

london calling,

12/10/2008 19:00:56
259
Please explain why Derry's Walls is sectarian..?
247

london calling,

12/10/2008 19:03:09


The time has scarce gone round boys, three hundred years ago
When rebels on her Derry's walls, their faces there not showed
When James and all his rebel band came up to Bishops gate
With heart and hand and sword and shield, we forced them to retreat

They'll fight and don't surrender, but come when duty calls
With heart and hand and sword and shield, we'll guard those Derry's walls

With blood that flow in crimson streams, through many a winters night
They knew the lord was on their side, to help them win thier fight
They nobely stood upon those walls determined for to fight
To fight and gain the victory and raise the crimson high

They'll fight and don't surrender, but come when duty calls
With heart and hand and sword and shield, we'll guard old Derry's walls

At last, at last, with one broad sigh, kind heaven sent Derry
The boom that crossed the Foyle was broke, and James he was dismayed
The banner, boys, that floated, was hung aloft with joy
God bless the hands that broke the boom, and saved the apprentice boys

They'll fight and don't surrender, but come when duty calls
With heart and hand and sword and shield, we'll guard old Derry's walls.

248

Pilrig,

Livingston 12/10/2008 19:06:14
261 - oh it just happens to celebrate an incident in which a city inhabited by Protestants was besieged by an army largely made up of Catholics and led by a Catholic King.
No really sectarian I suppose, just a celebration of 17th century politics.
Wtf relevance it has to Scottish fitba, perhaps you could explain ?
249

Nairobi,

12/10/2008 19:07:11
The amount of anti-Irish comments on this thread sadly demonstrates the sheer depth of anti-irish racism in Scotland.

The fact that these bitter racist comments against the Irish have been tolerated by the moderators of this site could and should be regarded as a microcosm of Scotland's institutions' (SFA, SPL, Scottish Government, etc,) blatant unwillingness to tackle racism against the country's largest ethnic minority.

Hatred of all things Irish and Catholic in Scotland verges on the pathological... and the screaming denial of this is there for all the world to see on this thread.
250

,

12/10/2008 19:07:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
251

london calling,

12/10/2008 19:08:09
Not one sectarian verse is there..
252

london calling,

12/10/2008 19:09:50
265
Is it better living under a facist church then...
253

london calling,

12/10/2008 19:13:19
263
You deemed that uefa should ban it.....why?
254

Pilrig,

Livingston 12/10/2008 19:14:07
264 - naw it would have died off years ago if it wasnae for Rantic.
Thats said it isnae as serious as people make oot.
The vast majority of the singers of sectarian songs ( or in the case of Derry's Walls, 17th century political songs) happen to be, to paraphrase Jim Sillars, 90 minute bigots.
Come Monday they'll be working alongside each other, with hardly a cheep. Usually nursing hangovers.
255

Pilrig,

Livingston 12/10/2008 19:14:52
266 - well if you say so !
256

,

12/10/2008 19:15:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
257

Pilrig,

Livingston 12/10/2008 19:17:24
268 - well I regarded it as sectarian. But have since seen the light it appears to be just a quaint folk song, millions would disagree with this assessment. But you'll have to convince them.
258

london calling,

12/10/2008 19:20:05
Pilrig
Thank you for your honesty ...respect
259

,

12/10/2008 19:26:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
260

Nairobi,

12/10/2008 19:31:01
#271 Ribbonman

Apart from the first sentence I totally agree with your post.

Scotland has been ruled by the British State for 300 years yet they keep their ire and resentment for a people who came over from Ireland and held onto the faith of their fathers.

If only half of this anger had been directed toward the oppressor then Scotland would have been a free nation long ago. The Scots who consider themselves to be British (a false identity) are the saddest of peoples. They are proud of their pathetic servility as their minds have been utterly colonised.

They are indeed Scotland's Shame.

ps Catholics pay taxes as well. Catholic schools exist all over the world, only in Scotland is it deemed controversial.
261

,

12/10/2008 19:32:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
262

jerrymanders,

12/10/2008 19:36:54
#275

Not all pupils in Catholic Schools are RC. Many are from other religions who enjoy the generally higher standard of education.
263

london calling,

12/10/2008 19:37:12
277

The most amazing thing about your post of oppression
Scotland has been part of the union
away before America was independent..
It puts your oppression theory to bed..does it not
264

london calling,

12/10/2008 19:38:53
278
Let and let live consider it a cultural experience..
265

,

12/10/2008 19:39:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
266

Nairobi,

12/10/2008 19:42:01
#277 London Calling

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

That just about sums up quite a few sad cases in bonny Scotland... does it not?
267

,

12/10/2008 19:44:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
268

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 19:44:40
#282 Ribbonman

The Scots live off the English taxpayer. North Britain is currently doing very well under the Union.
269

london calling,

12/10/2008 19:46:56
Being British i do not feel enslaved ,plus im of the cockney persona
270

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 19:47:39
Its quite simple. End sectarian apartheid in our education system where bigotry is fostered and job discrimination is accepted as normal.
271

,

12/10/2008 19:50:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
272

Nairobi,

12/10/2008 19:51:59
#282 Ribbonman

I do believe that the servile Scots know in their bitter hearts that they have been duped by their political masters... hence, the carnage in Manchester.

'Loyal' Scots wreck a city centre in a country that they bow down to... in a country whose queen they profess to worship.

Their unionist culture is dying... and they know it. The party is over for the bigots. The eyes of the world are upon them. And they have nowhere to go, and they can't go home... they are home... and they sold their country down the river.

And they know it.
273

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 19:53:25
Considering only ONE RC school is in the top fifty for academic achievement in Scotland, it is well past time to scrap them as they are clearly a waste of money.
274

,

12/10/2008 19:56:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
275

london calling,

12/10/2008 19:56:47
All the greatest scots in modern history have had to leave scotchland...
61% of American Presidents are of Scots or Scots-Irish descent.
A Scot, James Watt, developed the first efficient steam engine and in so doing started the Industrial Revolution.
A Scot, John Logie Baird, invented the Television.
A Scot, John Napier, invented logarithms and the decimal notation.
A Scot, Kirkpatrick Macmillan, invented the bicycle.
A Scot, John Paul Jones, founded the American Navy.
A Scot, Alexander Fleming, discovered Penicillin.
A Scot, William Paterson, founded the Bank of England.
A Scot, Alexander Graham Bell, invented the telephone.
A Scot, John Chalmers, invented the adhesive postage stamp.
A Scot, John Boyd Dunlop, invented the car tyre.
A Scot, Captain Patrick Ferguson, invented the breech loading rifle.
A Scot, Major General Lachlan Macquarie, know as the 'Father of Australia',
A Scot, Sir John Alexander Macdonald, was the first Prime Minister of Canada under confederation.
A Scot, Thomas Blake Glover, was one of the founding fathers of modern Japan.
A Scot, Henry Faulds pioneered the use of fingerprints as means of undisputed identity of people.
A Scot, Robert Stirling, invented the Stirling engine in 1850. Stirling engines are being studied at NASA for use in powering space vehicles with solar energy

Which proves to me the scots have been great inventors
but to make their dreams/inventions come true they needed the union
276

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 19:58:21
# 289

The Scots, even the worst racist anti-English bigots amongst them, will always support the Union for one reason and that is the English wealth which subsidises them. No principles and with no honour, that is the nationalist Scot. LOL Easily bought.....
277

london calling,

12/10/2008 20:00:20
So you should be proud instead, of anti-everything not scottish...because thats what nationalism will do to you........
278

Keef Richards,

12/10/2008 20:00:23
#291

I don't know which country you'll be toasting as you seem unaware which identity you are, but North Britain will do fine. ! LOL
279

Orange Supreme,

12/10/2008 20:11:27
Oh dear.

Since when did Celtic supporters become a race?

How come this song that only mocks Celtic fans gets more scrutiny after a few months, when IRA chants go uncommented for decades?

One song mocks Celtic fans(not a race) and the other glorifies racist murderers who targeted innocent British men,women and children.

Conveniently, those exercising mock outrage fail to consider that many of those who sing this song are Irish Rangers supporters or of Irish descent.

Upside down values by these politicians who are being played by the real bigots.
280

Media 1,

cape town 12/10/2008 20:20:23
Nationalism and its fanatical support is dangerous for the very fact that it removes the will of the supporter to challenge the leader...The leader is not viewed as a public servant, instead he or she is viewed as a sort of messiah who can do no wrong. The end result, a nation of lemmings under the spell of a few power hungry nutters...

Football songs are little more than wind up - but it must be said that the Rangers fans dispense their wind up with more intent because they understand that terrorism is a destructive and shocking display of human cowardness. To see fellow Scots flying Tri-Colours not in support of Ireland, but as a means of support for the IRA (albeit a wind up support) is going to cause bother...

281

london calling,

12/10/2008 20:20:55
I must go now, but one question i must ask is to phil

239
Were you party with Spiers, in the complaint to UEFA
concerning the singing of the billy boys and trying to get Rangers banned from europe?
282

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 20:53:27
296

If the song is a wind up for Celtic fans then why is it being sung when Rangers play Kimarnock, Motherwell and Hibs.

297

Terrorism is all the more shocking when it is perpetrated by a state empowered to protect its population but instead stand idly by whilst 1 million or more of its population starve to death ,sometimes at the side of the road, at a time when food was being exported for profit from their country.

The tricolour is the flag of a soverign nation and doesnt mena association with any paramilitary body. If you find the flag offensive its your problem.
283

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 21:05:22
298 Rangers supporters are more than able to get their own club banned from Europe.The have done it before and no doubt they will do it again.
284

Alba Abú,

12/10/2008 21:15:59
Media 1.... You are a known anti-Catholic bigot and an idiot to boot.Pretending to be everyones friend whilst peddling your anti-Irish and anti-Catholic hatred is your hallmark.Why do Rangers supporters sing songs in praise of terrorist gangs such as the uvf and uda? Oh yes I forgot you have explained that part as follows."Rangers fans know that terrorism is a shocking and destructive display of human cowardness" Aye! now we know why they sing songs in praise of terrorist gangs.
285

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 21:18:49
#282 "It must be humiliating to be so subservient to another country and a foreign monarch"

Not half as humiliating as being subservient to the foreign head of the biggest global collection of paedophiles ever assembled.

Like I said previously - If the Boy Scouts had even a fraction of the convictions the RC church has it would have been forcibly disbanded years ago.
286

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 21:24:01
295 I presume that #291 was toasting Scotland,you on the other hand being a loyalist would find that insulting as your masters are clearly to be found in England. Lets give a toast to the masters of all Scottish loyalists.THREE CHEERS FOR OUR ENGLISH MASTERS--------HIP! HIP!
287

Alba Abú,

12/10/2008 21:26:17
#302 wee ned...YAWNNNNNNNNNNN-------another ignorant orange bigot-----------------YAWNNNNNNN---Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz------SNnnnnnnnore
288

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 21:47:16
302

I would have thought it was more humiliating to doff your cap to a monarchy that through the years have been responsible for the deaths of thousands of your fellow Scots and whose national anthem still contains blatant anti-Scottish lyrics.
289

Orange Supreme,

12/10/2008 22:38:43
#299 Are Kilmarnock and Motherwell clubs with Irish identities?

Don't all fans mock their rivals even when they're playing other teams?

Don't Celtic fans sing about Rangers when they're playing other teams?

Alba Abu, there's a huge amount of irony in you alleging sectarian bigotry on behalf of anybody else.
290

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 22:50:17
306

"The famines over why dont you go home" As far as I can see there's no mention of Celtic here.

Thats because the chant is designed to target an entire ethnic grouping and not specifically Celtic fans.

Many of the complaints about this song have come from Hibs fans who have also found the song racially offensive.

You've got a finger in the dyke here trying to defend a song that has been deemed racist by SRTRC, Kick it Out, Searchlight and the Equality and Human Rights Comission.

291

Allan(handofgod137),

12/10/2008 23:13:31
Better idea, if you find it offensive, just go home, I'm sure the government of Eire will welcome you workshy scroungers with open arms, and we the taxpayer will be glad to see the back of you.
292

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 23:25:17
308

Or we could use the full weight of the anti Racist legislation to remove our society of the low life racists who will simply not tolerate anyone with a different culture to themselves.

In that case Scotland will be a far better place to live.
293

Orange Supreme,

12/10/2008 23:42:39
#307 It doesn't mention the Irish either.

Also, you're a blatant liar. SRTRC Kick it out and Searchlight have not made any official mention of it.


#309 Would you also apply your definition of "racism" to the racist glorification of IRA terrorist murderers who intentionally targeted innocent British men, women and children, or is your disapproval purely of a racially biased nature.
294

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 23:46:29
310

Taken from the SRTRC website

"We refer to "The Famine Song" which is being sung by sections of the Rangers support. We are of the opinion that this song is racist. Both Rangers Football Club and Strathclyde Police have stated that anyone singing this song risked being arrested. UEFA guidelines stipulate that "racial abuse" or "discrimination" is not confined to skin colour. It can also be reflected in abuse for being foreign or from an ethnic minority background. "

http://www.theredcardscotland.org/news/2008/01_oct.html

Try to actually check up before you make a clown of yourself.


295

Orange Supreme,

12/10/2008 23:59:47
It's you who's made a clown of yourself.

Celtic fans are not a race.
296

Orange Supreme,

13/10/2008 00:10:30
Also, note that you've only ALLEGEDLY disproven 1 out of 4 points in that particular context still leaving me 3-1 up since the others have not said anything and your claims is still looking rather dubious.
297

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 13/10/2008 01:49:57
313 Orange whatever

You said in post 310 that SRTRC had not mentioned the Famine Song officially. I showed you in post 311 that they had . You were wrong and look an idiot, take some advice and try not to compound your embarrassment.

All the bodies I mentioned have declared the Famine Song racist. Not even the most extreme poster on here has tried to deny that.

If it makes you happy go and shout abuse at someone or other but leave these boards to grown ups.
298

Wee Fred,

13/10/2008 07:35:04
#304 Alba Abu said "wee ned...YAWNNNNNNNNNNN-------another ignorant orange bigot-----------------YAWNNNNNNN---Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz------SNnnnnnnnore"


I suppose thats why the global abuse carries on and new offenders are identified on a weekly basis - Anyone who even mentions it gets called an 'ignorant orange bigot'.


Classic use of the "Cry Wolf" tactic to cover up child abuse.


Now lets think, where else have I seen that tactic deployed? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!



Sweep FC
299

Allan(handofgod137),

13/10/2008 14:51:58
#309 If you're trying to imply I'm a racist, why not say so directly you leftist Sh!tout?

 

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