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"'The time and effort that goes into these scams is amazing'"
Published Date:
01 October 2006
POLITICAL EDITOR
FRAUDSTERS have hijacked the Scottish Executive's flagship policy set up to persuade immigrants to come to Scotland.
Scotland on Sunday has discovered that Jack McConnell's Fresh Talent Initiative, launched amid wide publicity last year, is being use to con African students out of hundreds of pounds.

Students in Nigeria have been approached by conmen posing as
British airline officials promising they can get them into Scotland via the scheme, which enables foreign graduates to stay on after they complete their studies. It was intended to persuade talented youngsters to stay in Scotland and find work.

However, government documents obtained by Scotland on Sunday show that the scheme has been seized on by conmen in Nigeria to exploit desperate youngsters who want a new life in Britain.

One student was told he needed to pay a registration fee of £200, and would be helped to reach Scotland. He was then asked for a further £150 'entry clearance fee'. He contacted the Scottish Executive in Edinburgh to find out how his application was going only to be informed he was being conned.

Later that month, officials received another similar enquiry, indicating that a full-blown scam was up and running.

Corruption chiefs in Nigeria have now been informed by the British High Commission in the capital, Abuja. Officials at the High Commission say they are not surprised by the scam, admitting that they are well aware of dozens of others being run in Nigeria, exploiting the thousands of people who every year try to come to Britain.

The deception was revealed in e-mails sent between the Scottish Executive and the Foreign Office, released under the Freedom of Information Act.

In January this year, the Scottish Executive was contacted by one Nigerian student. In an internal e-mail to the Foreign Office, an official declares: "He claims to have been approached by one individual who claimed to be working for a British airline and promised to help him get into Scotland on the Fresh Talent scheme.

"He claims to have given this woman £200 as a registration fee... he says he wants to know what is happening with his application as he is now being asked for a further £150 entry clearance fee. He mentions someone called [CENSORED] who is claiming to be a UK agent working for the Fresh Talent scheme."

The Scottish Executive official goes on: "He is quite clearly being ripped off... we are concerned that this scheme [Fresh Talent], and the Executive's name, is being used in this way."

In another e-mail later that month, the same official records: "We have now received a further enquiry from Nigeria which suggests that this scam is continuing. In this one, we have been told about a UK e-mail account which claims to be handling Fresh Talent applications."

A spokesman for the High Commission in Nigeria said such scams were common-place in what is one of the most corrupt countries in the world.

He said: "We see them virtually on a daily basis. The amount of time and effort that goes into them is amazing. They are very clever."

The spokesman said that the commission was now handling 1,100 visa applications a day from Nigerians.

Nearly 2,000 foreigners have so far successfully applied to stay in Scotland under the Fresh Talent scheme.

Applicants will only be successful if they graduate in Scotland. Rather than having then to leave immediately if they do not find work, they can stay on for two years. So far nine Nigerians have successfully been allowed to stay on since the scheme began. The vast majority are from either India or China.

The scheme was created as part of the Scottish Executive's drive to turn around the country's historic population decline and to attract well-qualified foreigners into the country.

A spokeswoman for the Scottish Executive said: "Obviously, this was an unfortunate incident for the individuals concerned. The instructions that are set down for Fresh Talent are clear. No further incidents have been brought to our attention."

According to the international watchdog Transparency International, Nigeria is the sixth most corrupt country in the world.



The full article contains 705 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Sanny,

Ex-Pat Scot 01/10/2006 00:41:44

Can some one please explain to me why we need to attract immigrants to Scotland? If we need additional workers fine let us issue them with fixed period work permits. I have worked as an Engineer in many countries with an entry visa and a work permit. When my contract was completed my permits were cancelled and I had to leave my host country. If I had misbehaved then my permit would be withdrawn. This seems to be an eminently workable solution, if we indeed have a labour shortage.
Where companies flout the regulations and employ illegals they should be fined so heavily that it would threaten the business.

2

David,

Malaysia 01/10/2006 02:04:02

I have also been pointing this out for years - writing to M.P.'s - General Tony Blair, Idiot Straw and all the rest of that motley crew. Except for one M.P.(the only one who ever took an asylum seeker to live in his home) they all gave the standard answers they normally have sent out to the stupid British public and ignored my protests.
Is it any wonder that illegal immigrants like Brazilian Roselane Driza ,who blackmailed Immigration Judge Ilias Khan tells her fellow illegals - "act like a victim then you can get anything- the British are very gullible . "
I am only surprised that the High Comm. is allowed to say that Nigeria is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Some years ago when the Midland Bank issued a warning to be on the look-out for Nigerian con-men who were diddling various branches, they had to withdraw the statement as it was considered racist !

3

Transparent?,

Fife 01/10/2006 04:18:43

The fault lies with all politicians for not educating our own people. If that had been done, there would be no need to have the whole of the UK invaded by foreigners to take up skilled jobs ... white collar or otherwise.

It's high time the people of this country started controlling the politicians for a change.

4

Sean G,

Thailand 01/10/2006 05:41:06

Completely agree with the above comments and this drive for multiculturalism has been taken too extremes by the PC looney left who will not be happy until the indigenous British people are no more.

Perhaps those of us working overseas can better appreciate the total lunacy that is the current UK policy and this apparent willingness to "give our birthright away". Japan has similar problems to the UK with aging demographics but somehow I dont see Japan trying to attract foreign immigrants -anything but!

As the old saying goes if you keep adding water to your whisky you eventually will end up with water!

5

Nancy,

Scotland 01/10/2006 05:57:12

The brazillian and all these others A/S are obviously abusing our nice and gullible hospilality.David #2 Act like a victim andyou can get anything because the British are very gullible, These People of different cultures are being forced upon us. and we are also the victims. Does anyone in the goverment care about us? "God!" "Enoch Powel was so right!"

6

George,

Ex Patriot 01/10/2006 07:09:18

Some good comments here. Aren't you surprised that this scheme is being abused already, Mr McConnell?

This scheme like almost ever other created by the "geniuses" who govern Scotland, will be mismanaged by an incompetent civil service and before we know it the country will be overrun with anyone who makes an application to study English there. Thus gaining a foothold in the UK from which they can expand the "Fresh Talent" scheme for their own personal gain.

This scheme demonstrates how completely detached from reality the government has become.

If we are short of skills in the UK, issue work permits with expiry dates. Reward those who perform with permit extensions and good wages that can be sent home to improve their home countries to which they will eventually return.

I work in a country where I am required to have a visa, a work permit and a police registration all of which are fixed term (12 months) and can be revoked at any time with no reason given. This is in a country that doesn't have thousands queueing up to get in.

7

Steve McGregor,

fife 01/10/2006 08:02:47

Fear can as well be a weapon of mass destruction. if you read the comments above, I wonder whether these people would be saying the same if the immigrants were from Japan, America and Denmark. By the way britain has a big population of American illegal immigrants, fortunately the public seem not to care about it. I just hope its not a race issue which exempts other illegals from being condemned of "swamping" our isles.

I remember Michael Howard said that everyone in the world wants to come to Britain. May be "aye". But that sounds to me like saying "everyone in Britain wants to move to Australia"

As human being, we are still evolving and if you guys think that you can stop human evolution, then you better pull your socks up.
Goodluck.

8

,

01/10/2006 08:03:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 90286, Article id was mapped to record!
9

Peter,

Aberdeen 01/10/2006 08:35:24

Invest in Scots first.There is so much talent in Scotland yet people are slow at coming foward.Look amongst yourselves!

10

abcd,

01/10/2006 09:07:01

What a load of hysterical nonsense.

This just seems to me to be indicative of the usual standard of the Scotsman group's journalism. Crisis! The world is falling on our heads! On the basis of . . . er, two incidents.

Oh, and "Brazilian Roselane Driza ,who blackmailed Immigration Judge Ilias Khan tells her fellow illegals - "act like a victim then you can get anything- the British are very gullible . " - erm, hasn't she just been sent to jail? Suggesting that actually she hasn't got away with anything.

Sorry for injecting some facts into the debate - hope it doesn't spoil your fun.

11

jacky,

England 01/10/2006 09:18:43

Nothing to do with importing skills!

It's all to do with the McLunacy of the Scottish Labour party. Mass state employment and benefit culture, hence loyalty to the state at the ballot box.

And the other McLunatics are following the same pattern in the rest of the country.

Work and pay your taxes until you drop!

12

julien brellier,

01/10/2006 09:22:09

shaun, I was under the impression she was sent to jail for blackmail as opposed to pointing out the truth to fellow illegals. britian is the most guillable country in the world. hence the reason we have people who seek asylum coming from as far away as china and not stopping at other countries in between.

13

Mick Maroon,

Bonnington 01/10/2006 09:28:20

wow, all these Scots, busily working ABROAD moaning about Scotland looking for Fresh Talent. Please stay abroad, dinnae bother coming hame.

I thought the Scotsman would improve once the Barclays moved on. Alas not.

Sean (10) - spot on mate, spot on.

14

maggie,kitty,

edinburgh 01/10/2006 10:05:53

the trouble with young scots is they are downright lazy cant be botherd everything is an effort the yhave the cheek too moan about too many immigrants they shoul stop there giro they might get off there butts then.sorry about the spelling mistake got the worg specs on.

15

Sanny,

Ex_Pat Scot 01/10/2006 10:07:24

7. Raymond, fife
This has nothing to do with fear as you put it. I and the other contributors above are saying that we want the same system that is use in virtually all other countries. I and I’m sure the others have no objection to Guest workers but they must remain Guests and leave when appropriate.

9. Peter, Aberdeen
A perfectly valid point Peter.

10. Sean
Where’s the hysteria unless it’s the PC Lefties concern about logical and valid comments.
Apart from Nancy I see no comments on the Judge with zipper problems.

13. Michael, Bonnington
Yes I worked abroad for over half my life. Why? Because the Westminster Government had ruined the Scottish economy making it difficult for me to use my education and hard won skills to forge a decent living for my family. The same reason that the people want to come into this country and why I have no objection, provided it is not at the expense of the indigenous people and that they are temporary residents.

16

Sanny,

Ex_Pat Scot 01/10/2006 10:17:08

14. catherine, Edinburgh
I assume you include yourself in the same category as “young Scots”, as you seem to be too lazy to check your spelling and punctuation.

It is all too easy to blame the young, they are what we have made them and are emulating the example we have set. All they need is the right model to follow and the opportunity to develop their talents.

I think Catherine it is you who needs to stop moaning and do something constructive. It can be a wonderfully rewarding experience.

17

Mick Maroon,

Bonnington 01/10/2006 10:19:47

Alexander (15) - define 'indigenous'.

Born here? Parents born here? All four grannies and grandads? A bloodline back before 1900? 1800? Thirteen Canteen? Are people with Irish great grandparents indigenous? Are the 8% of people in Scotland born in England indigenous? My ancestry is, like everyone elses, a mixture of things. Celtic, Norse, English, Irish, Lowland, Highland etc etc. Which of these things, if any, make me 'indigenous'? Or might it be the coulour of my skin??

18

Sanny,

Ex_Pat Scot 01/10/2006 10:35:02

17. Michael, Bonnington
I’m sure you’ve got a dictionary – look it up!
Having re-read your post I have the impression that you’re a bleeding heart liberal and therefore it’s a waste of time entering into a discussion with you.

19

CHESTER KRUZSELY,

WORTHING, BARBADOS 01/10/2006 10:47:14

Economics is not the only benefit to look at for immigration. The PC left seem to use that as the only criteria. When you add the cultural junk that comes along, it shows we should close our borders to all but the very best. I speak of Scotland, Britain, Canada, USA and Barbados.

20

A.K.,

edinburgh 01/10/2006 10:47:56

I am an edinburgh born and bred student and I think this "initiative" is a load of bollocks!
The only reason some of these Indian, Nepali, Chinese and African students come to Scotland's Unis and colleges is so they can stay over. Other Scottish students in my class are struggling to get a job so why the hell do we need a Nepali/Indian student taking our chance to gain work and useful experience.
We also have a few EU students in our class so why cant they be the people we encourage to stay, after all they are entitled to be here anyway.
The sooner this idiot scheme is finished, the sooner my fellow Scottish students will be able to get the jobs they have strived for.
The Nepali/Indian students have told me themselves they are only staying on to make money and then they will go home(they dont give a jot about our country) ...and so the search for talent ends up having to start all over again while the foreigners take the experience, money and everything else they can and go home with it.
McConnell wants to be seen as the world statesman while Edinburgh and the other cities are left to rot

21

Armageddon,

Korea 01/10/2006 10:49:40

Jack....resign asap. Nobody trusts you anymore.

22

Sanny,

Ex_Pat Scot 01/10/2006 11:16:13

20. Jamie, Edinburgh
You make your point very well Jamie. My own student days are about 50 yrs behind me but I can feel for today’s students coming out of Uni, only to find all the jobs are taken by low paid foreigners. The work permit scheme, I and others on this post were advocating, would resolve the problem. A potential employer has to show there are no nationals to fill a post before they can get a work permit for a foreigner.

I’m given to understand that the young (<30) seldom vote. Change that and change your government, then keep on their back to ensure they look after the countries interest and not their own

23

TheAfrican,

UK 01/10/2006 11:26:59

Jean, I beg to differ with you. There are no 'schools' where crime to defraud the system is taught. And then, to be honest with you, what benefits do these overseas students really get? I know students who have been here two years and have not gotten a single penny from the government. Not that they have tried to get but the stamp on their passports that say 'no recourse to public funds' already disqualifies them. And the Scotish governemt has seen the benefits of inviting people to come school and work in scotland Even the british universties want a peice of the action. For one, they subsidize the education system for uk students. I hear that overseas student bring in on the average £3-10 billion a year .(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/4702208.stm.)
Again, those that stay on to work for the 2 years or so, do get any benefits from government, however they do pay taxes, which helps the ageing population. I think this is a good thing. Don't you? And stereotyping is really not a good thing.

24

Finbar in the Sun,

Nottingham,UK 01/10/2006 11:35:34

As a dentist trained in Edinburgh and born and bred in Glasgow I am astonished by Mr.McConnell's naivety.Would it not be better to attract back the many Scots expats who find themselves outside the Motherland often not through their own volition???Astonishing as it may seem I had to seek work in England as I could not find work at home despite looking for over six months.The paths of London and beyond are certainly not paved with gold and i know many friends in their mid-30's who have done their time down South and would return home if the opportunities are there.Most of us at this age group are also looking to start families,want to bring the kids up at home and close to their grandparents etc etc.Or is attracting Scots back too difficult??!!!Most happy to hear any opinions on my points.Cheers.Finbar.

25

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 11:37:30

This was open to abuse from the beginning. I don't agree with McConnnell's idea of send us more and more immigrants.

Migrant workers who willl eventually return home are considerably different from being suddenly swamped with people who are not even of our continent and our economy and infrastructure which cannot support a booming population or mass exodus out of third-world countries in the long-term.

Now McConnell and his type think they can get around the pension fiasco, by importing more and more people to pay into it, but really what looks like a solution in the short-term will be a much greater problem in the long-term. Many of these people will milk the benefit system and take from it rather than give anything.

There are unemployed people native Scots living in Scotland, so why are they not being trained or utilised FIRST? Don't tell me it's because they are lazy or untrained, because I have been in that very position and couldn't get a job, despite holding a 1st class Honours!

Nigeria is the home of scamming. Where do you think most of the junk mail offering you millions comes from? Some Americans have ended up dead as a result of following up on those scams.

13. Michael, Bonnington, you are a Politically Correct moron. You ask what indigenous means. Look it up why don't you. So you don't think that just maybe native Scots should have some say in who arrives in their country and question why it is we are becoming 2nd class citizens in our nation. We will be outbred and usurped from the power in our nation before long.

The scary thing is the SNP are NO ALTERNATIVE to Labour in this area, since they seem more concerned with immigrants than native Scots these days - to the pont of making me want to vomit.

26

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 11:44:23

22. Alexander, Ex_Pat, Scot You said: "The work permit scheme, I and others on this post were advocating, would resolve the problem. A potential employer has to show there are no nationals to fill a post before they can get a work permit for a foreigner."

Alexander, good post! Consider that in the USA you CANNOT employ a foreigner to work at any job which an American could fill. This is a good policy!

27

maggie,kitty,

edinburgh 01/10/2006 11:46:31

16 you asumed wrong at 82years old lost my specs yesterday worked from the age of 14 and after 60 I wrorked part time tillI was75 I think I have a right to comment thin you jumped the gun pal grow up.

28

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 11:47:07

24. Finbar. You are spot on! First task should be to reverse the brain-drain, which would also preserve our declining culture.

29

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 11:55:38

14. catherine, edinburgh, and you think importing the trash and curroption of Eastern Europe and the Third World is an improvement? You shouldn't generalise on Young Scots, Catherine.

30

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 11:56:57

p.s Hope you find your specs soon, maybe they will help you see the whole picture.

31

TheAfrican,

A Colony 01/10/2006 12:01:10

It would be worthy to mention that UK has the highest number of immigrants to Canada. And we see Uk citizens moving out of the UK every year, for less tax oppressive economies. So why can't people come to the UK? Just my 2 cents!!!

32

Bob,

Va., USA 01/10/2006 12:07:59

If Scotland needs Immigrants, why not pick up a boat load of them at the US-Mexico border?! Mexicans are anxious to leave their country because a small minority of them own the majority of the land and almost all of the industry. The Mexicans are fine looking people. Their hair is straight; they have a strong work ethic; their religion is primarily Roman Catholic, with Protestantism being the second choice ... so they won't be blowing up your planes or busses, and they assimilate well. It's simply that the US is saturated with them because of their poor economy. But Scotland and the rest of Europe would benefit if they simply gave the Mexicans and the other Central and South Americans an easy entry. It sure beats the H*ll out of having to take Moslems in!

33

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 12:15:17

32. Bob. Just how many Pool guys or Maids do you imagine Scotland needs? The problem and you know it, is that most of those Mexicans have nothing to offer in way of trade skills.

34

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 12:17:02

31. theAfrican, duh Canada was settled by British (and French) people. Immigration to Canada today is close to impossible unless you have a lot of money or marry a Canadian.

35

TheAfrican,

One of the Colonies 01/10/2006 12:18:09

32. Bob. Check yourself!!!

36

TheAfrican,

One of the Colonies 01/10/2006 12:20:10

34. David. I dont think I agree with you. I know quite a number of people who have immigrated to Canada simply because of their skills and no they did not have a lot of money or marry any candian!!

37

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 12:23:22

36. theAfrican, well then why don't you go there instead if Canada is so easy to get into (which it isn't by the way)?

38

TheAfrican,

One of the Colonies 01/10/2006 12:24:56

34. David. I dont think because canada was settled by the British and the French gives them a right to immigrate to canada? In the same way it doesn't give citizens of colonies where wealth that was taken by the British a rightto move to Uk. Your point seems baseless.

39

TheAfrican,

One of the Colonies 01/10/2006 12:26:03

34. David. I just might take up on that offer!!

40

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 12:28:29

38. No, but it explains the large amount of British people who live there today and the continued draw of people from the UK. They are culturally similar nations as to stock, language and culture, and are both Commonwealth countries.

You seem to think you have some automatic right to arrive in Britain. You don't! You have contributed nothing to that nation. You are not of that nation.

41

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 12:31:40

39. You can try but unless you have $100,000+, marry a Canadian or have an excellent degree (in a useful subject like Doctor, Dentist etc.) and are young, or a combination of all 4, you won't get into Canada.

42

Bejjy,

Lisburn 01/10/2006 12:32:38

My mate, his wife and kids emigrated to Canada a couple of years ago without any problem. So David TX, you are misleading us with your fairy tales.

43

Sanny,

Ex_Pat Scot 01/10/2006 12:39:40

27. catherine,
I’m not far behind you Catherine; perhaps we old coffin dodgers should get together and chat about the good old days - that never really happened.

Sorry you lost your specs, it happens, but it is no excuse for poor punctuation or spelling. We were both educated about the same time and unlike today, great emphasis was placed on punctuation and spelling, therefore I expect better of our age group.

This does not alter my statement regarding the young, or that you should stop the moaning and do something more constructive.

Incidentally I’m not your pal and unlikely to be so.

44

TheAfrican,

One of the Colonies 01/10/2006 12:42:37

42. Bejjy. Thank you!

34. David. I think you are confusing the HSMP with the canadian points system.

Please do your homework well. Ok?

45

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 12:45:03

42 Bejjy, whatever you say. Next you'll be telling us that it's easy to enter the USA.

Just maybe, I happen to know something about this due to employment and the fact that I happen to be a Brit located in North America. You'd need a needed skill or profession and the cash to make it happen before the Canadian government would even look at you. I imagine your friend got in under the Skilled Worker Class program - which even that can be quite strict.

This is the skilled worker test:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/assess/index.html

46

maggie,kitty,

edinburgh 01/10/2006 12:45:20

SO SORRY! I did not mean to blame all scottish young I meant the nerds that live off the tax payers is that O>K> anybody find a pair off specs in the area of the gyle please let me know I think there gone forever.

47

DLv,

Hampshire 01/10/2006 13:23:09

Some of the comments above only go to show the depravity and short sightedness of a large section of Scottish people. This is why perhaps they require the good efforts of McConnell to shape their senses right.
First the report above did not indicate the Scots are being ripped off. It says the Nigerian gangs are ripping their own people off. How does that make the Fresh Talent programme a failure??? These crimes occur in Africa, not Scotland. And the victims are innocent young people not the gangs. Let their government deal with it and let us stop losing sleep over this topic. After all the American lottery visa is still being hijacked by gangs even in Asia.

Secondly, the report says at least 1100 applicants apply for visas to come to the UK every day in Nigeria. Basic arithmetic, tells me that with Home office charges about £355 per application for this sums up to £102m per year as revenues into the UK, yet less than 5% of the applicants are granted a visa but unsuccessful application fees are never refunded. Take a walk to Croydon and see for yourself.

Thirdly, the average Nigerian Student spends at least £15,000 per year to fund his/her education. We are not talking student loans here, we are talking cash upfront. Successful Nigerian applicants inject £2.1b per year into our universities. And who are the benefactors – the same Scots who turn their backs and curse the hands that feed them – the universities are staffed by predominantly Scottish lecturers, catering staff, auxiliary staff etc. who feed fat on the funds from these nations they turn around and curse. Yet their own children cannot even pay less than half of the tuition fees the government charges, and run to apply for student loans while foreign students provide the funds to keep their educational systems and in fact the economy intact. It beats me that these ignoramuses stand in the way of providing employment to these same people who give their all so our society can benefit. Thes

48

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 13:23:34

Of course the real difference between emigration to the USA & Canada, when compared to emigration to the UK (or indeed Scotland).

Is that both the USA and Canada have a well thought out and selective Immigration Policy aimed at tackling abuses and abusers of their hospitality. By this practise, threy preserve their nation, jobs and culture for future Americans/Canadians.

That is, the people of those nations (unlike the Scots) are not subject to the whims of a short-sighted dictatorial idiot of a First Minister with a flawed idea in place of an immigration policy, which can only lead to long-term social, cultural and economic problems.

49

DLv,

Hampshire 01/10/2006 13:25:52

- - - - Continued- - - - -

Fourth, If as a Scotsman you get a definite date on your work visa, you deserve it cos you don’t need to stay one day longer. What crimes do our own people commit in these countries as expatriates? I think our journalists should start exposing us for who we are - hypocrites. Some of our British people working in Nigeria go bed-hopping with innocent black underage girls, crimes of which you’d be in jail for being a pervert and child molester in the UK. These people take undue advantage of their low earnings and spend hours sh**ing underage girls for under £5 a night – acts that would earn them life in jail here.. They feed us horrid stories about Africa to distract us fom seeing the crimes they commit against humanity. African governments recognise these but because they lack laws to send these expatriates to jail, they review their status annually and where they are considered a nuisance to society refuse to renew their permits.

So next time you read a report like this, read the lines and do not talk like a Scottish man high on Scotch whisky.

50

David Ex-Pat,

Plymouth 01/10/2006 13:27:43

47. Vanessa, Hampshire, no Vanessa they got what they paif for an education, now it's time to go home to Nigeria or wherever and practice their newly learned skills.

51

DLv,

Hampshire 01/10/2006 13:30:41

David,
I am delighted you dont have an opportunity to live in Canada. Cos you wont be able to handle it. Foreigners who get into Canada settle there, become Canadian citizens and intermarry, making Canada the most culturally diverse country in the world today.....what the whole of UK wishes it was but lacks the galls to get on with it.

In Canada, you dont have asians, blacks, australians, french, europeans or new zealanders, you simply have 'Canadians'....get my drift??? Grow up!!!

52

David Ex-Pat,

Plymouth 01/10/2006 13:31:31

49 Vanessa, are you a bleeding heart liberal? How are the sex crimes of some people (you allege are British) and Nigerian gangs who scam everything they can (including spamming the internet) suddenly Britain's problem? Wake up! We are not the United Nations. Britain owes them nothing, and Scotland owes them less than nothing. McConnell is an idiot.

53

TheAfrican,

One of the Colonies 01/10/2006 13:33:58

50. John, Plymouth. What they paid for? The lecturers that lecture them, are they any different from the ones that lecture the uk citizens? So why pay more? Please spare us!!

Vennesa, Nice one!!!

54

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 13:37:15

51. Vanessa. Canada has it's racial tensions same as anywhere else. As to your claim that Brits, Auistralians or whatever stop being that and become Canadians well that is just nonsense.

On the subject of racial tensions, I could point out that the native tribes in Canada (and they have a lot more right to be there than anyone who came afterwards) are not exactly best mates to the white Canadians in particular the French and in the past have opposed the government.

BTW, Vanessa I have never attempted to enter Canada and if I ever did I'd have as much chance as anyone else. Am I right in thinking you are an immigrant by any chance?

55

DLv,

Hampshire 01/10/2006 13:37:18

50. John, maybe you should start with some knowledge of history and get your forefathers to return to Africa and Asia the wealth they pillandered which formed the basis of your education and culture today. Just maybe....Until you've done a round world trip to places like Africa, Europe and I mean as far up as Scandinavia, the Americas and Asia, you'd be better enlightened to make informed comments...

56

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 13:39:51

53, theAfrican. You pay your money, you get an education, afterwards you go home.

You have no argument at all. I hope that sanity eventually comes to the British people and they have the good sense to close their doors to these abusers of the system. Britain is not the answer to your nation's social problems and we don't need to import your nations problems. It's really beyond a joke.

57

TheAfrican,

One of the Colonies 01/10/2006 13:39:54

David, if the UK was so wonderful for you and only you, why are you living in America?

58

TheAfrican,

One of the Colonies 01/10/2006 13:41:54

And david, How are overseas students abusing the system? Please educate my narrow mind?

59

David Ex-Pat,

Plymouth 01/10/2006 13:41:57

Really and what wealth was that Vanessa. LOOK, WE OWE YOU NOTHING!

Why is it that you Africans somehow imagine that Britain owes you something?

60

Sanny,

Ex_Pat Scot 01/10/2006 13:43:18

47. Vanessa, Hampshire
That’s some rant Vanessa: Once again the English are trying to foist their unworkable ideas on us. Vanessa surely you don’t believe the rubbish you’ve just spread over this column.

If you are so sure of these gentle Nigerians then bring them to England and let them live next door to you. Nigeria is spelt Corruption and Scam believe me!

If you read my previous entries to this column you will see I am not against Guest workers per se. I want the same system that applies all over the civilized world. McConnel is our burden and we know it and will deal with him in due course without help from south of the border.

61

David Ex-Pat,

Plymouth 01/10/2006 13:43:22

57. theAfrican. I work for the British government and will return to the UK when I posted home! So pointless trying to work that stupid argument on me.

62

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 13:44:14

61. Same story. FCO.

63

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 13:47:30

60. Alexander. Exactly. You are wasting your time arguing with Vanessa though, she is obviously a beneficiary of our flawed excuse for an immigration policy.

64

DLv,

Hampshire 01/10/2006 13:49:43

56. David, TX
I am not an immigrant, unless you decree that English people are immigrants everywhere in the UK except England.
And it would appear that you hardly read the article before vituperating your comments. I suggest you go back and do so. I run a company employing well over 100 persons and I am fully informed to know the contributions highly skilled and legitimate immigrants bring to the society. We british people are finding it quite hard to come to terms with the problems we created. In search for political correctedness, we left our kids alone to be brought up by TV and social systems. These hard working and highly intelligent immigrants from well structured upbringing remained focussed while ours were nipping 'pints' and 'vodka'. Today, we blame our social ills on immigrants; typical of us British - to blame everyone but yourself.

65

David Ex-Pat,

Nigeria 01/10/2006 13:50:11

You Brits owe us Bowhanna. I coming to take your benefits. LOL.

66

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 13:54:24

That's complete rubbish Vanessa! It's because of fringe liberals like you that our nation is in such a mess. So you think we owe The Third World a favour an should open our borders to the trash of the world? Nigeria is one of the most corrupt nations in the world, it is also a place where Al Koeda is strong. Do you really want to open Britain's doors to that lot? Are you mad?

67

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 13:56:35

65. Abdul, we don't owe you anything.

68

TheAfrican,

One of the Colonies 01/10/2006 13:57:26

David, TX.

And where did you get your information about Al-Qeada and Nigeria from? The American government?

69

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 14:06:44

Al-Qeada's support in Nigeria is common knowledge.

http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/007594.php

70

ex-labour,

01/10/2006 14:06:53

Nigerians have always been very clever with their take on creative capitalism. Get used to it.

71

David Ex-Pat,

TX 01/10/2006 14:08:35

More of the same:

http://www.nigeriavillagesquare1.com/Articles/femi_oyesan...

72

Bejjy,

Lisburn 01/10/2006 14:08:55

Abdul. Don't put yourself out by travelling to the U.K., we will send your benefits directly to your bank account in Nigeria. Please send me your details (including bank details) forthwith so that this may be achieved without delay or hardship to yoursef, your wifes and, no doubt, the many children that you have been blessed with.

73

Discretionpvs,

Canada 01/10/2006 14:10:48

Seems to me that all you people blathering about getting into the country where I was born 75 yrs ago, have many misconceptions about us. First, when applying for a permit to immigrate, you need the equivalent of CAD 10 000. Then they roll out the other red tape. It took a Dutch couple in my town three years to get here legally. Good thing. They are a valuable asset to the community.It is far easier for any person from the Carribean or Africa to get in here illegally, than it is for legal entry. Come in illegally. Welfare benefits, health plan benefits, others of your ilk will give you a job, legal or otherwise. The Immigratyion review board takes years to do anything, and by then the gov'ts have changed.
As for multiculturism----my opinion personally, BOLLOCKS.. The French and English still have no use for each other (Quebec vs the rest of Canada)We still have our "foreign" neighbourhoods where English is rarely heard, our murder rate is skyrocketing as the the cops aren't allowed to profile racially. For a white man, born here, a military retiree, and one who only speaks English fluently, it's a great country. But we do need to tighten tjhings up and get rid of all the bleeding heart lawyers and MP's. If any imigrant doesn't like it here, or in the UK, they are always free to leave, quickly. Personally I love Scotland, ancestry etc, very much like where I live, but you don't need anymore "I will refuse to assimilate" persons in the country. Nor do we.

74

Janis,

London 01/10/2006 14:15:37

Vanessa....... Fantastic. It`s great to watch someone, who knows what she is talking about, take on the famous reactionaries ( DavidTX & Alexander ).

Well & eloquently said !!

75

Bejjy,

Lisburn 01/10/2006 14:18:31

Stop stirring it Janis!

76

Janis,

London 01/10/2006 14:27:59

LOL Bejjy.. How`s thing? Still quaffing for England I hope.

77

Discretionpvs,

Canada 01/10/2006 14:30:06

A slight add-on to my last note. Several years ago a friend of mine from Tatarstan, Russia, inquired at the Cdn embassy in Moscow about emigrating to Canada. First of course she'd have to find the 10 000 CAD, have a sponsor here etc. This of course could take years. All in all, the red tape was in such a huge pile she decided it would be easier to stay in Russia and put up with all the corruption etc.

78

Bejjy,

Lisburn 01/10/2006 14:33:57

You bet Janis

79

antony,

england 01/10/2006 14:44:44

Please Vanessa just shut up,you are embarrassing us English in front of our Scots cousins.Don't you think we English have enough problems dealing with the cataclysmal effects of 'yo' blair and his bunch of clowns over the last ten or so years.Are people such as you so 'up themselves' with their dream-like fantasy world view that we are all the worlds children in harmony-to go wherever we like as a right,that you give no consideration to the reality of mass economic migration on the established indigenous host ? no, I think people like you probably don't-until it effects you.

80

antony,

england 01/10/2006 15:05:07

Re Janis Londinistan

Oh dear,here we go again,another empty headed English fem with her 'sisters -in -arms diatribe.

81

Janis,

London 01/10/2006 15:19:40

Antony.... I blame my Mum. All those weekends I had to spend with her and those funny ladies @ Greenham Common. LOL

82

media4,

Ottawa, Canada 01/10/2006 15:21:00

Ah yes, the last refuge of the right-wing reactionary redneck with no counter-arguments left...to think they can cow their opponents by labelling them "bleeding heart liberals." It hardly adds to the quality of the debate on this issue. I must say I'm disappointed at the vitriol being spouted by several of the commentators here over an immigration idea that is aimed at university grads in Scotland, no matter where they come from. Jean in Glasgow (8), there's nothing in the story to suggest that Jack McConnell is going to Nigeria specifically to seek immigrants. Jamie (20), it would seem to me that they must be better at what they do if these students at Scottish universities are taking your "chance to gain work and useful experience." David from Malaysia (2), try reading the story properly. The High commission did not say that Nigeria is one of the most corrupt countries in the world; that's the conclusion of the Scotsman, based upon the latest report from Transparency International. As for George and Alexander, one has to wonder how "guest workers" would survive during their time in Scotland with "good wages," while on the other hand, they condemn immigrant workers for taking these "good wages' away from "indigenous" Scots. If the wages are so good, why are these job not being snapped up by Scots? And Alexander, I'm surprised at your refusal to give us the definition of "indigenous." Is it because Oxford defines it as ""to be born in a specific place?" That would, I assume, include all the children born in Scotland of Nigerian, Indian, Nepali, English, and Scottish parents, just to name a few groups. As well, to criticise an 82-year-old woman for poor spelling and grammar as she tries to express her opinions is disgraceful, or maybe just another sign of the superior attitude taken by some whose education may have been more complete than others. To correct David, the British expatriat

83

antony,

england 01/10/2006 15:22:45

re Janis Kashmir-on-thames

"out of the mouth of babes...."

84

media4,

Ottawa, Canada 01/10/2006 15:29:53

To conclude....It's time for dinosaurs like Alexander, David, and the like, who don't seem to have the courage to stay home and fight for the changes they'd like to see, to understand that the days of kilted Scots swirling into battle from their sod-covered huts with blue-painted faces are long over. It's time to move into the 21st century, and realize how lucky Scotland is that people from other countries want to make it their new home. As for Nancy's support for Enoch Powell, well God help Scotland!

85

Fi,

QLD, Australia 01/10/2006 15:36:02

1. - Alexander
The reason that countries like Scotland need to attract foreign nationals is because so many scots/brits are emigrating elsewhere.... like the 44,000+ registered users at the britishexpats.com website.
To me the reasons for trying to attract international students, offering them the possibility of staying on after their finish training, seem simple. You have someone who will have a UK degree, not a foreign one. There's the high possiblity they've had UK work experience whilst they've been studying - supposedly making them more employable than joe blogs just off the plane. They've paid around £15k a year into the UK Uni system (making it cheaper for homegrown students). They bring different cultures and attitudes to the education system enriching the experience for everyone. PLUS the gov gets a chance to suss them out whilst they're here on the temp basis, and if they're not suitable send them home again.

I'm an international student - but I'm doing things the other way around. Collected my first degree at Edinburgh, now working on numbers 2 & 3 in Australia. I'm paying out over $30,000 AUD a year in tuition alone for the priviledge, and I'm hoping that when I finish in 4 years the Australian Gov't will let me stay on a 2 year work permit, and then I'll apply to stay for good. What I'm doing is no different to the young people coming into the country on the Fresh Talent scheme.

86

Janis,

London 01/10/2006 15:39:11

Amen to that Norman..... I work in NHS & know that without immigrants ( ALL levels of staffing ) the NHS would be sunk.

87

Ayotunde,

Nigeria 01/10/2006 15:45:48

Hi, Very interesting discussion. Here is my 2-bit :-)
David, don't believe everything you read or hear.
Yes, there are lots of corrupt people in Nigeria.
But the greater majority are honest hardworking
people who care about their neighbours. And all
that stuff about Al-Qaeda is rubbish. There are
some militant Muslims but they are not affiliated
with Al-Qaeda unless you count the fact that they
would enjoy seeing an all-Islam Nigeria as the only
basis for being a part of Al-Qaeda.
And as you can see the 1st article you pointed out
was inconclusive and more or less someone's opinion.
The second article talks about using the IT infrastructure for terrorist propaganda/communications - that might as well be anywhere - there are lots of places where there are plenty of Al-Qaeda sympathizers - they don't need to suffer the hot sun here just for that!
I am a Christian and I don’t believe Sharia is equivalent to Al-Qaeda (at least not in the short term :-)
And that's not going to happen. Amen!
And due to our own colonial servitude mentality we
treat expatriates better than our own people which is
why lots of foreigners come here and live like kings.
Something that would have been impossible for them in their own country (blame it on our almost valueless currency) and then follow that up by looking down on us.
I am not a racist and love all the people of
the world. We all have some amount of good in us. Peace my world-brother :-)

On the subject of education, I go with Vanessa and
theAfrican - you point is only valid if Nigerians/
foreigners pay the same amount as indigenes then
they should leave after their education, but if
your own education is subsidized by them, hey,
be fair and at least give them a chance to earn
some cash even if it just for a year.
I could go on ...

88

antony,

england 01/10/2006 16:31:17

Norman-Canada
Dear Norman of Canada,over here in Blighty we have our little idioms,and parochial sayings-just to amuse ourselves,and prehaps cheer ourselves in these overcrowded,overtaxed,and forced multicultural times,indulge us little Englanders for just a moment please.
In England the term 'Norman' is used to describe someone who portrays as prehaps 'inept' or 'feckless',prehaps a sort of 'Mr Bean' type character.After reading the utter drivel posted by you-you whom have neither the right,proximity,or are subject to the negative effect in your daily life of the effects that 'effete' politicians and their social experimentation have had on the British isles dare to utter your unwarrented 'advice' and 'views' on how the English,scots et al should think about the saturation and dilutation of an island with a protracted magnificent history,is nauseating in the extreme.Even the 'vacant' Vanessa and her chum from Londinistan whats her name...Yanis have a right to their views,because they are resident to this unfortunate piece of rock.You conversley do not.

In your case I think the term 'Norman' is entirely appropriate.

Unusually for me,I do not mind divulging some of my personal details to allay prehaps the accusation that I have a personal 'axe to grind'I have been fairly successful in my careers enough so that I no longer need to work-but choose to do so.I have employed people,paid them well,and have been satisfied to watch them marry,have children,and watch them prosper.I own substantial amounts of land in Greece where I intend to retire to in a,few years taking my pensions with me.The irony of my position is that I am probably more altruistic towards my fellow man than the'vacuous' vanessa or her chum from Londinistan- janis and the 'norman'whom deep down are very very selfish individuals unable or unwilling to grasp the nettle that is human existance with its unfortunate realities of finite space and resources,and tribalism.
The pro

89

Bejjy,

Lisburn 01/10/2006 16:35:32

Right Janis, I am off down-town to quaff until my boots are filled. I have still got the dilemma of which bar to go into, the catholic or protestant. Does'nt matter really, some nerd will call me an English bastard whicher bar I'm in. I tell you, its a great life as long as you don't weaken.

90

DLv,

Inverness 01/10/2006 16:53:14

To say I am mortified and appalled at the comments of Alexander, David and John is an understatement.
For David and John, I think both of you stand out as a complete disgrace to the institution you work for and represent - The Foreign Commonwealth Office (FCO) which is in fact the body responsible for dealing with Consular issues in United Kingdom.

I will give you rascals some education which I share with my English 'cousin' Vannessa. Several decades ago, the world detested the Chinese much as these two detest the Africans - Majority lot of then Chinese students went back home after their education and applied their skills directly into their economy. Today what is the result? Their economies have blossomed indirectly shutting down over 60% of our factories in Scotland. Even foreign direct investments bypass us to China. This has left us poorer and more stupid than we thought. Ask your son to develop a business plan - his competition is China and not the UK. Tell me who is the loser? WE ARE!!!
I think the government has realised this problem quickly and felt the best way to keep these people from exporting our skills and applying them to better their economies to their advantage (and our disadvantage) is to help the 'bright ones' settle here. This way, they work, earn and pay taxes which you struggle to pay but rather sit on your bum every Friday night in a pub downing a pint and doing a joint. And as they grow in number, they develop businesses which employ our children getting them off the streets to earn and pay taxes which is in turn ploughed back to benefit the economy. It’s a shame we have shot ourselves dead in the past and are resurrecting the hard and painful way.
Development takes place slowly and the government is adopting a far sighted approach which as Vannessa enthused, you (David and John) are too near-sighted to see. I only wish you will leave your comfort zones and come back home to create jobs by starting your own business

91

antony,

england 01/10/2006 16:59:38

to Bejjy,lisburn

For god's sake do not indulge this 'jannis of londinistan' one more instance.Years ago I was a Nursing officer in the nhs,my wife is still a community nurse.The nhs is collapsing,it is referred to amongst the nurses as the 'international health service' and is in a parlous condition.Incidently did you know that Britain has the cancer survival rates concomitant with those of the third world !!
I suspect that 'janis of londinistan' is prehaps one of our international imports god love her,probably a very nice (if seriously misguided) girl,but certainly not an individual to respond to as you have been doing-you sound better than that.curtail the need to respond to her imbecilic utterances for the sake of decorum.

92

media4,

Ottawa, Canada 01/10/2006 17:15:00

Antony. Thank you for your vacuous comments on my name, showing yet again that right-wing red-neckers will only stoop to personal insults when they have no logical arguments to put up. Perhaps a short lesson is in order on the name "Norman," meaning, of course, "Norseman" or "man of the North," a historical reference to the Scandinavians who occupied much of Scotland in times gone by. As for your reference to my "right" to comment on such affairs, I might wonder how you cotton to people from other countries commenting on Canada's affairs earlier on. As a Canadian proud of my Scottish heritage, it pains me greatly to read some of the discussion points being raised. You'll note I made the comments based upon reaction to a story about university students and immigration in Scotland, not England. I hardly think you have any better claim to comment on those issues than I do. Remember...beware the Sassenach. Perhaps your reliance on "tribalism" would do you well amongst the warring tribes of the near and middle east, where that outdated mode of existence is still practised. It is exactly this kind of "tribalism" that leads to conflict, something I had thought civilized societies were trying to overcome. It's a funny comment coming from a country where the "tribalism" of certain ethnic minorities, their failure to integrate into UK society, is being blamed for a rising tide of Islamic militancy. Come and visit the "reality" of Canada before criticising it. As for Gibbons, a history now 250 years out of date, one must remember a quote from his Decline about Jews, which says ""humanity is shocked at the recital of the horrid cruelties which they committed. We are tempted to applaud the severe retaliation which was exercised against a race of fanatics, whose dire and credulous superstition seemed to render them the implacable enemies not only of the Roman government, but also of huma

93

James Pawlak,

USA 01/10/2006 17:38:24

We in the USA will be more than happy to send you a few million of the rapists, murderers. identity thieves and such like Latino "illegals" now inflicted on us.

94

JANIS,

London 01/10/2006 17:47:55

Norman.... @ 91 I apologise on behalf of Sassenachs for Antony. To quote Daryl: I am appalled & mortiified.

Antony @ 90.. for the record: I`m not an immigrant(4th generation London at least) and I am a University Graduate. I will not self-promote any more, as you have done, `cos. it`s really boring, and not relevant OK? Re. your comments regarding NHS re-read my post @ 85

95

JANIS,

London 01/10/2006 18:05:33

Bejjy... If u are still with us.. Have a good evening, I`m off for supper & some good red wine....none of that Retsina rubbish! cheers!

96

Prinzowhales,

North Carolina 01/10/2006 18:09:36

If memory serves, it was in Mr. Foner's 'History of Labor' that correspondence between big mine owners in the American West revealed how they liked to have a diverse work force so one group could be played one off against another...the Slavs against the Irish, etc... The immigration policy of the UK and Scotland as well as the United States seeks to carry this policy forward in the realm of political economy on a grand scale.

The filthy animals who run American and British Labor are about one half gangster and one half frontmen for the Capitalist Regime. Their mission is to glad-hand, smile and kiss enough baby mugs (or arse as the case may be) to get elected and serve the interests of that Regime gaining high union offices and backing accomplices in national politics.

If you think for one moment that a Regime 'headed' by a Blair or a Brown is better for the Nation than one headed by a gaggle of crooked Thatcherites, its because each party appeals to a different constituency of chowderheads and you liked the bait and happened into their particular eel pot... but ask yourself: Do you really like what they've done? Do you really think their wars are just?-- particularly as they have been revealed to be based on nothing more substantial than a tissue of lies, lies and more lies.

Yet Tory hound and Labour poodle continue performing their stupid tricks before the eyes of a stuporous nation as though nothing were amiss...miserable dancing canines jumping over the bodies of the dead squaddies while the moderator asks..."Well, which dog do ye think does the best dance?"

If I were Scot, Brit or Welchman, it would be a matter of complete indifference to me which one of the two useless oxygen wasters--Brown or Blair--headed Labour and formed a new-New Labour government of lies, corruption, murder and lawlessness. One might as well concern oneself with the doings of Anna Nicole Smith or the slattern Paris Hilton.

It is just so

97

,

01/10/2006 18:33:12
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98

antony,

england 01/10/2006 19:06:22

Dear prinzowhales
At last a yank with braincells-keep up the good work

99

Prinzowhales,

North Carolina 01/10/2006 19:19:33

#87 Antony...THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS and DECLINE AND FALL were excellent books...thankyou for recalling them to mind. If the intended lessons had been drawn and applied we wouldn't have the problem we have today.

We are not really competing with China on a level playing field. The yuan is kept artificially low and the Finance Capitalists find it far more profitable to import goods from China and sell them through the big discount houses like Walmart than to build factories and employ citizens. With China, there's no messing with Labour, (just their own New Labour), Unions or the like...no cares about environment, worker's health or rights...

This is a Chinese Communist regime that has murdered over 60 million of its own people, regularly threatens to nuke the US if we interfere in its business of Taiwan and the ethnic erasure of the Tibetan people. This is a regime that imprisons religious minorities and sells their organs. This is regime that has murder vans that scour the countryside for children to be captured, have their organs harvested and their collagen melted down to fill the thin-lipped cadavers of wealth and privilege in New York. Is this the kind of Regime friends of Freedom and Democracy want to do business with? Is it the kind of State that any self-respecting union man would want to support? But, Oh the HORROR... some Afghan lass has to wear a vail...shocking! We must continue the war against the beastly Taliban! In the name of humanity...oh, woe! Woe!

We needn't compete with slavers and foreign exchange that fixed!! This is not 'Free Trade'. This is even worse than what happened after World War I when it was the policy of HM government to sacrifice the interests of UK working people for the sake of the holders of foreign debt...keeping the Pound sky high pegged to gold while that same Pound made world markets inhospitable to UK goods...Germany, America and Japan prospered off the misery of working men and women in the UK

100

media4,

Ottawa, Canada 01/10/2006 19:25:55

Antony...Thanks so much for keeping it to a "higher plane. " Well done....overrun by the Asian (or Polish hordes)! You might remember that these people have expensese, too...they have to pay rent and mortages, and have money for food, petrol, and the rest. You seem to think these people are taking Britain's high wages but still paying Poland's lower prices! If the opportunity isn't there, then I guess these people won't find jobs, will they? And if there's no opportunity there, then I assume the entrepreneurial spirit in England is dead. Once again, stooping to personal insults to make your case! Maybe instead of making assumptions about who I am and my physical build (I hope it makes you feel more "manly" to think of me as a "weedy little man," but at 6-3, I think we'd be evenly matched), you may want to consider facts. Once again, you invent the facts to match your biased attitudes. I am not a "runner." I am Canadian-born and proud of my Scottish heritage...maybe read the posts more closely before you start shooting off your mouth. As I said earlier, this kind of return to the glories of Britannia is nothing more than trying to live in the past....get on with it, and look towards the 21st century.

101

antony,

england 01/10/2006 19:56:46

Jannis of Londinistan
I catogorise you in the same little reeking repellant box as Norman of canada.Full of gutso from afar.No possible constructive advice or anything that romotely could be concieved as interesting,nothing that will alleviate the suffering of the English,Scottish,welsh,irish for all their pains-just the ramblings of another androgenous half woman probably pitiful in her lack of child production,whom has too much time on her hands,the products of this barren mind,achingly wanting to be part of the general mileu is the affront to those sane minds whom recognise the threat of the normans and vanessas of this life with their cloud cookoo thoughts,their Psychosis of thought,their inane selfishness,their disregard for convention and history,no thought for you and me scotish person who's grandads fought in wars,parachuted out of planes sixty five years ago
on d-day whilst being shot at to preserve our way of life,our freedom,our priveleges,the product of a thousand years of sufferage-oh no messers Norman and vanessa and the air head yannis of londinistan convieniently forget these facts,they look through life with the callidascopic rose tinted glasses of those of a poet-dreamers where nobody is without, the skys are always blue,- fine but do not pillary the likes of me when i am proved right,that this forced ethnic melting pot will erupt like a volcano,just as yugoslavia fell apart,and will do so again.The sooner the vanessas and normans of this life face reality,the sooner we as a homogenous entity can deal with the challenges of the future,which are in themselves climatically and geographical witheringly enough for us as a species

102

Virgil,

Vancouver, BC 01/10/2006 20:07:22

Let us pray that the obscene diatribe posted by Antony #96 against Norman and his views, will be left blowing in the wind. Please Norman, no RSVP is required. May I then be alllowed to comment on the story and to express a point of view without having to defend my status or my national origin, which incidentally is Acadian with family ties to Evangeline country going back over four hundred years. I am a Canadian and I love to teach, which brings me to my point. I was exchanging at a Scottish University and in the time of my tenure the Fresh Talent Initiative was being introduced. As I recall, it reeived lukewarm interest in academia mainly for the reason that students in Colleges and Universities there are multinational and multicultural and assimilate well.I teach Physics and Inorganic Chemistry (now some kids around Glasgow will recognise me) and I found among the International students a stronger propensity to return to their homelands than to remain in Scotland.The students who felt this dedication did so because their tuition and the opportunity was provided by those countries. Others who came from priviledge, were of mixed mind, but generally they too would return albeit for a lesser period. I saw those kids and I know those kids and I believe that Scotland could be the recipient of immense gain from their residency. I recognise as I write, that I am not commenting on the Scotsman's article which is really about the criminal elements who are abusing the system but the diversity of Comments has shrouded me. I do believe in the long stretch that the Scottish education system needs a shot in the arm, for University levels are not attainable for the majority of the school poulation and I know it may be upsetting to hear it, but I question the literacy rate of Scottish school-leavers. Failure to recognise this factor will demand that academics and technicians be recruited offshore. With me giving the full reespect to the teachers, the purveyors of education, I o

103

,

01/10/2006 20:21:10
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104

,

01/10/2006 20:23:04
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105

media4,

Ottawa, Canada 01/10/2006 20:28:32

Oh Antony, you've become so boring. Off to Greece with you, so you can spout such raving nonsense from afar! And try and read up on your history about why our fathers and grandfathers fought...it certainly wasn't to keep all the "wogs" out of Britain!

106

media4,

Ottawa, Canada 01/10/2006 20:29:20

Ooooh, Antony....pistols at dawn maybe? Or do you prefer swords? Grow up!

107

Doreen,

England 01/10/2006 20:39:08

What have I TOLD YOU ABOUT USING THAT COMPUTER! How dare you go against my wishes, if you are reading this Antony I am afraid I will not be allowing you out to the Viking re-enactment group tonight, nor the male knitters tomorrow, you can forget it. And another thing when I tell you to cease proselytizing you are to do it immediately. I will not have you embarrass me in front of my ladies bridge group again. I am sure Mrs Everton heard you bleating on about "I'l have you you Canadian son of a b**ch"! Ludicrous, a man your age. Your dinner is in the tin next to the can opener...good night!

108

Doreen,

A clenched fist 01/10/2006 20:43:57

Oh my whats that awful beady eye glaring down my lovely neck, put me down you vile beast cant you see I am empty...you have drained me entirely and now I am just a shadow of my former self, positively transparent.......aaaaaaargh! on no its the wattled tongue flapping around for the last drops.......heavens I think I shall fade away.

109

antony,

england 01/10/2006 20:44:33

Dear Eduared,god bless the lord,are you another canadian or american freak don't you understand that it is because I care so much about what happens to to British people that I am so passionate about what I say.Are you another 'dummy' who thinks that we all live in some kind of garden of eden.Hallo,Hallo-anybody home inside that head of yours welcome to the world of reality where there is only so much space,and so many buildings to live in,and so many jobs to pay for what you are living in.I would love to live in your anaesthitised lsd focused world where there are no wars,no hate,no need,but unfortunately and I'm sorry its a big shock to a pygmy mind like yours,ITS A CRUEL WORLD
Please Eduard,go to bed,take some more tablets and sweet dreams of fluffy sheep dressed in straight jackets.

110

,

01/10/2006 20:57:46
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111

David Ex-Pat,

01/10/2006 21:10:52

89. Daryl, Inverness. I have never met a Scot named Daryl! I expect you came to Scotland in the last wave of immigrants.

112

David Ex-Pat,

01/10/2006 21:16:49

Antony, David, Alexander - brilliant guys. That is the true opinion of native Britons to the invaders that the pathetic clowns in Governement are forcing on us. To the person who imagines they are all educated lovely people, the people running the drug gangs, prostitution racketeers, in my area are now mostly immigrants - East Europeans, Africans, Yardies, who knows what else, now what does that tell you exactly? I think you'll find none of them are University educated, never mind studied in Scotland. Where my parents live in Kent, I would be unable to find a council house or a job even at minimum rate - because I am not an immigrant. Our country is being handed away, it's a complete disgrace.

113

David Ex-Pat,

01/10/2006 21:22:09

Norman (Canada allegedly), I don't believe anything you have said. However if you think these people are blooming wonderful why don't you let them into your country instead? That would solve our problem and you moron's like would love it (although most of your countrymen certainly would not!)

114

media4,

Ottawa, Canada 01/10/2006 21:31:34

Ahhh, Tony G....but we DO let them in. And we've done so for many years. Please don't make unsubstantiated comments about what my countrymen would or would not like, since you obviously don't have a clue! And Canada, allegedly? Are you concerned I might, instead, live right next door to you in Edinburgh? Tony, you, too, have become boring, and in record time!

115

David Ex-Pat,

Glasgow 01/10/2006 21:33:14

101. Eduard, Vancouver, BC. That's complete rubbish Eduard (why do you spell your name in the German fashion btw?)

I work in the Royal Mail in Sighthill in Glasgow, and just the Christmas past I remember a black girl from oddly enough Nigeria, who came in as a Christmas casual. She went around asking men to marry her, because she was about to be deported. It became a running joke amongst the guys there, but really it's no joke at all. It's serious. In the end one man was actually thinking of helping her out - he was a Polish immigrant but claimed to be Italian, on account he had worked for a year in Italy as a cook! Let's get serious here. There are a lot of abuses going on.

Course one of the best examples of abuse of British hospitality, outright lies and fraud, would be story of the Al-Qaeda terrorist The Hook (otherwise known as Abu Hamza al-Masri).

And on that topic, Nigeria and Zambia are places where Al-Qaeda are strong. Don't walk into this blindly people. Unless you are foolish enough to believe that it is all just American propaganda as a couple of morons on this board have claimed.

116

antony,

england 01/10/2006 21:33:31

Norman,great stuff Iv'e hit a nerve have I not,I'm Off to bed now-busy day tommorow,but anyway I look forward to reading about how Canada Is falling to bits for the same reasons as Britania is,it is inevitable,its just that you have a lot more room there,and Knob-heads like your good self have a little more lee-way to excersise your pschotic views without any danger of inconvienience,or upsetting the proleteriat.Just wish you had a pair of testicles and could come over to this little tiny Britain and see the damaging effect of mindless morons with your attitude,and the the effect it has had over here.
Norman,how about towns full of pakistani's where no- one speaks english,and no white person can go.
How about The average indigenous English person whom has been thrown out of their job to be replaced by an eastern european for a third of the wage previously paid.How about (this happened to me two weeks ago at manchester airport) having to take your shoes off at airport security,and not being allowed to take water or cosmetics on the plane because of the pandering to islamic extremists.How about islamics openly advocating killing christians without any sort of prosecution.The English are a dying race,and will probably cease to exist as a homogenous race within the next one hundred and twenty years-these are universally accepted figures.
No doubt people like you norman of canada will be ecstatic at the thought of this,bully for you.But at the end of the day prehaps your grandchildren will look back and lament at how a civilsation was allowed to fade away,because of the mindless drivel of the likes of you and vanessa,and the rest of of the dullards whom held sway in policy.Congratulations Norman you are a real asset to your race,sleep easy.

117

,

01/10/2006 21:36:38
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118

media4,

Ottawa, Canada 01/10/2006 21:45:36

Andy....sorry to disappoint you, but if you had read my posts completely, you would have seen that I never said immigration to Canada was easy. Try to get yout facts straight before sounding off. (boring my tits off? I haven't head that since I was 13 years old!) You suspect I'm a liar? Wow....any evidence?

119

media4,

Ottawa, Canada 01/10/2006 21:50:49

Thanks Antony, I do sleep easy!

120

,

01/10/2006 22:10:42
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121

,

01/10/2006 22:10:50
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122

Bejjy,

Lisburn 01/10/2006 22:16:46

I going to bed everyone, I can't take anymore of this crap. See you all in the morning. Love and peace to all mankind.

123

antony,

england 01/10/2006 22:22:33

Andy,and the rest take heart,as I said earlier I was many years ago a nursing officer in the nhs in psychiatry.I do not take offence at Norman of canada's vitriol because I recognise mental illnesss when I see it.Somehow he has managed to gain entry into canada,and i'm sure the canadian authorities would be besides themselves if they were witness to this guys verbal diarrhoea.I am absolutely facinated to understand this guys 'modus operandi' he either really hates his own race,or is some friendless computer interactor who's literally interfacing with his only option for social contact.
Come on Norman,you are disturbing me,I'm about to go to bed any minute,and you are leaving me with the impression that you are some sort of misfit whom hates your own caucasion race,bald headed with horn rimmed glasses,who's wife left years ago because of your 'strange' behaviour,you have no children because as I have intimated before you have no testicles..
Come on Norm Do not let me go to bed with this disturbing anti soporific vision,at least lets have some healthy sleep inducing abuse,or give me a laugh at least with your 'I hate my own race-let all the foreigners in' blurb.
Good night Norm of canada and Vanessa of the no doubt speculative sexuality you have been a real wheeze.Good for the ego to know that there are people out there who are just litererally dross.

124

Discretionpvs,

01/10/2006 22:34:36

And one final comment from me. Norman, from the civil (often known as 'simple') service capital of my country, and Antony, give whole new meanings to the verb "to rant". Perhaps the adjective "stupidly" should be added.

125

,

01/10/2006 22:46:42
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126

California Scot,

USA 02/10/2006 03:14:03

Wow! I read each and every posting about this topic. Some were well done, some just plain funny.
But I noticed no one really touched upon the cause of it all: poverty and people seeking a better life.

If you were subjected to extreme poverty, an abusive violent goverment, or no possibility to get ahead, would you stick around?
Ever since there have been people, there have been those less fortunate and they tend to not put up with their lot for long. They go and search for something better.
How do the so called "wealthy" nations deal with this? The legal and illegal? Well, you have to come up with some way to stem the tide without being too exclusionary. In the USA we have the well publicised "problem" of illegal Mexicans coming here in droves. It is a tremendous financial drain on the states they have chosen to live in. Yet....if you ask the average American how much they are willing to pay for such services as garden care, restaurant help, etc....the cheaper the better. The "illegals" fill a labor void left because the wage is too low for the average American to want the job.
It seems the sceme being put forth in Scotland is a good one because at the end of it you have an educated person who is willing to contribute. That's good.
America is as I am sure you are aware a huge mix of peoples from all over the world. We are united as countrymen under our laws, our communities and our grandest symbol, our flag. The flag is the representation of our values and ideals. Perfect? No. But we are working on it. And I am not a bleeding heart liberal. I hate liberals. I think they are the embodiment of everything that can go wrong in the human society.
I did notice when I was in Scotland words like Chink, Paki and Darkie being used with frightening frequency.
I saw more alcoholism and vandalism than I have ever seen. I saw mobs of drunken young people tearing up their towns in drunken stupors and

127

Stephen fae Scotland,

Edinburgh/California 02/10/2006 04:15:41

To get back to the story printed here... Are you mad in Scotland??? SERIOUSLY! Don't you know what the hell is being done to Scotland by those half wit Socialists? They have a temporary majority and are using it to give away you - our - country!

Everything the devolved government has touched has turned to crap! But don't blame them, YOU let them in, again and again!

Socialists in or out of the Union are NOT the answer, and that will not produce the 'best small country in the world' - the Scots can do that but only if they stop bleeting, stop blaming the English, the Tories, the Unionists, etc., etc....

Hell no one back home wants to hear any of that. They will just keep complaining - the way socialism has taught them.

128

Virgil,

Vancouver,BC 02/10/2006 09:25:19

Andy #114 Your perception is accurate but please do read my comment again. I did express that my national origin is Acadian and as such my forename is scripted in Germanic form, not German as such. You may know the painful history of our nation in surroundings around the border of Alsace to take hope across the Atlantic to New France only to have indignation travel with us, to be exploited first by France's new world conquerers and then subsequently to be exploited and brutalised by the Scottish Regiments in the name of an English King. My comments referred to students, itellectually competant, who will leave university to return to their homelands and enter positions of authority, not to be equated with the example you cite. I will reiterate that their talents will be a credit to Scotland should they choose to remain now or reurn later. Finally I will once again ask you to re-read my initial comment and note that I question the literacy rate of grade school leavers from Scotland's poor and inadequate education system. I recognise that many of the correspondents to this Comment column fall in this category.

129

David,

Malaysia 02/10/2006 11:18:13

Norman.#81 Sorry to be such a stupid bore, but I still cannot read this properly ! I am reading from this page as follows -"A spokesman for the High Commission in Nigeria said such scams were common-place in what is one of the most corrupt countries in the world ."
I know I must be getting it wrong somehow- so help an old-timer.What is this spokesman really saying ?
Is #Tony G (Edinburgh) exaggerating in what he says about the people in his area who are running the drug gangs, prostitution, and other rackets ? I know it is true what he says about Kent.Perhaps you can elaborate about Edinburgh, Tony ,although I am sure some who have not seen the situation at first-hand will put you down as a racist,fascist or a skin-head .
I realise of course that I should not have mentioned Roselane Driza .That poor lady, as was pointed out, is already suffering in jail for blackmail after having been in England illegally for 8 years, and her husband (an Albanian gentleman who serves in the Albanian Mafia) is serving 20 years for murder in Italy. They may even charge him with other murders when he returns to take up residence again in U.K. More worries !
One bright point -if he does return to Britain ,he will be able to drive without a tax disc on his car for 6 months, and then do the same as so many of the European Union citizens who have moved to England ,he can take his car on an "away day" across the Channel just before it has to be registered,and have another 6 months free.It can go on for years ! How's that for a bonus ? The government have been aware of this loophole for years, but there are more pressing things to think about -oil from Iraq for one ,bombs on London Underground, appointing more Ofsted inspectors who will promise to create intolerance in their community.
By that time Mr Driza will not be at risk from Mr Omed Aziz - the poor chap with no insurance, no MOT, no licence,no eyes, who was driving around Birmin

130

David,

TX 02/10/2006 12:40:00

All of my posts are now being moderated and refused posting to the Scotsman boards after posting my comments on immigration on this board.

This is a different ID and I'm just proving that I can post if I want to. I am afterall an IT graduate, it's easy. Can't see the point though if the Scotsman has selective opinions on freedom of speech.

I stand by my comments on immigration. Labour's Immigration policy is a complete shambles. I hope more Scots have the guts and good sense to tell them to shove it.

Bad show Scotsman newspaper, you shut up any Scot who speaks their mind on here, but bow down to the immigrants, the liars and anyone who knocks Scotland. No surprise from a Tory newspaper which sensationalises evrything and anything.

Bye, to anyone sane on these boards, and to the immgrants get out of my country. You have no right to be there. We owe you nothing.

Alba gu brath!

131

David,

TX 02/10/2006 12:42:02

128. Eduard, Vancouver,BC. Why is it foreigners like you who seem to be the ones telling us how to run our country and how we should think. Get stuffed.

132

,

02/10/2006 12:46:46
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133

fiona,

aberdeen 02/10/2006 13:37:41

I'm worried about initiatives that encourage people to come to another country to work when the country in question already has many people out of work and the majority of those who are in work are very poorly paid in relation to living costs, particularly housing costs

Employers should be encouraged and if necessary re-imbursed to provide training for jobs they cannot fill. I see so many low paid jobs advertised that require all singing, all dancing individuals. Perhaps there could be a review of existing employer practices to enable more home bases labour to get employment before raising the expectations of people in poorer countries that they will come to Scotland and get a great job and a great lifestyle. As with everything, one or two will be lucky, but the rest will end up with a hard life in a cold country

134

Anderson (lowlander),

02/10/2006 14:43:38

I agree with (9) Peter. Look within your own borders first. Why spend more to loose more. That makes no sense. To spend more to make more does. There is a load of talent right in front of you. If you want to loosen up the purse strings then spill your loot in the lap of a willing Scot. Independence will mean nothing if filled with foriegners. Lets celebrate our culture and use those with talent to do our bidding.

135

sandy,

Pennsylvania,USA 02/10/2006 16:12:37

please indulge an outsider to comment on the article. i receive a scam e-mail from Nigeria at least once a month, & i can do nothing to stop it. i only wish i was saavy enough to find how they are able to send these to me without my e-mail address.
"illegal immigration": it's my belief that people from
European countries can legally come to America only if they have a profession we need. in contrast the illegals that cross our borders are uneducated & work doing what some call menial jobs--field hands, gardeners,housekeepers, cooks, carpenters, meatpacking plants, etc. the pro-illegal immigration
activists say these are jobs Americans wont do. this is not true. the people, & companies who hire them,
pay very low wages. much lower than an American citizen would get. the unwritten policy of our Federal & local gov'ts, is to allow this to go on. the crimes
committed by illegal Mexicans here is astonishing.
murders, rapists, drunk drivers w/no license that have killed innocent citizens, scams, diseases, etc.
we-the-people want it stopped, & we're called racists
because we've spoken out. i wish the best for Scotland & hope you can work this out for the good of the Scottish people.
since 1993

136

sandy,

Pennsylvania,USA 02/10/2006 16:17:06

"since 1993" should be placed after--"Federal & local gov'ts"--------i don't know how that happened!

137

Yogi,

02/10/2006 18:17:51

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/cgi-bin/showarticle.pl?a...=
The Camp of the Saints
Jean Raspail's novel predicted all this way back in 1973.

138

Drek,

Edinburgh 02/10/2006 20:21:55

I happen to have employed a number of students from Nigeria who have come to Britain to study. Every single one of them has let me down (not turning up for shifts, giving crap excuses, or not even bothering to phone me to let me know that they weren't coming in to work). They are also as thick as the proverbial 'two short planks'. How they got into university is beyond me. You litterally have to take them to the workplace by the hand and lead them to a job, then do all the work for them. One of them is a genuine "lunatic", who was trying to stalk a girl that he met at work one night. I have either gotten rid of all of them, or they've left. We also have a Nigerian Minister on our books, who has touched up girls at work. If this is the kind of "Skilled people" that Scotland needs, God help us.

139

Virgil,

Vancouver,BC 02/10/2006 20:50:04

To David #129, you are quite right in your observation of Canada as a country whose citizens express courtesy and politness towards all people. I have demonstrated this in my correspondence to this Comment column. However I have also expressed empathy for those Scottish people who still hold the past as a passport to their future and the education system which still perpetuates this myth. The literacy rate among four fifths of Scotlands grade level school population must be addressed. David #131 and the Andys are not able to play a part in the economic development of their country, they lack the education and the skills and I contend that immigration of talented replacements must occur, otherwise Scotland will be known only for its traditional products. This may hurt but it is not insulting.

140

David,

Mallaysia 03/10/2006 01:31:02

#139Eduard. Yes, unfortunately I do have to agree, with your statement regarding literacy rates- it applies also to England,where many people erroneously believe the Scots education system is still the best.
However, I have seen the British(and especially the Scots ) change from being a friendly and welcoming nation towards foreigners into a xenophobic , parochial , suspicious , resentful group. In the very early 1950's I felt that England was probably racist- Scotland not so,except for the "we beat them aince at fitba' and at Bannockburn " type of epithet when England was mentioned.
Because of unfettered immigration- allowed by both Torys and Labour - this attitude has changed , but we cannot blame the native population. Most countries have some sort of restrictions on anyone trying to cross their borders.To migrate to Australia for instance , one must firstly supply a police report to prove that there are no criminal charges proved against the applicant.and if the applicant is over a certain age they must have a large amount of financial resources and is then obliged to take out expensive medical insuarance.Musn't forget the very strict medical examination,and unless one is prepared to wait a long time for this, it is at the prospective immigrant's cost.If a retiree,after having found their own accommodation and settled in Oz, becomes chronically ill and they have no longer enough cash to sustain themselves, they will be removed. If you commit a crime while you hold a temporary visa -which means all your life if you are a retiree - you will be deported.
Sorry to go off at a tangent, but I want to show the disparity between the UK's immigration system and that of a really wonderful country like Australia where they will welcome you- if you try to fit in with their way of life - but not if you are a sponger looking for hand-outs! Nobody should allow criminal groups or people who have no intention of keeping the laws in their host c

141

Sean G,

Limbo 03/10/2006 03:17:40

Just to add that the overwhelming majority of Scottish/British posters are on this thread are anti-uncontrolled immigration -so why can't our politicians see the dangers that are so obvious to the rest of us????

I used to think that in post-war Britain it was a plan to bring in cheap labour and also as part of a very deliberate ploy to "diversify" the population to prevent the kind of extreme Nazi nationalistic idealogy that took root in 1930's Germany ever happening here.

Now ironically, fifty years later Jews are planning to emigrate to Israel because they fear for increasing anti-semitism from a muslim population of 2M that is likely to double within the next generation!

Sheer lunacy-we have been let-down badly by our political masters. Enoch was indeed right!

142

Claire,

South Africa 03/10/2006 16:01:26

I'm a white woman living in South Africa. I need to get out of this place. As a result of the colour of my skin, I am essentially about to become unemployable as soon as I leave University. I dont belong in South Africa because I am not black, or "previously disadvantaged". I'm currently disadvantaged. If I dont belong in South Africa, and I cant belong to the UK, where do I belong?

I have Scottish heritage. My family came from all over th UK before my great grandfather moved here for health reasons. And because I am not second generation or whatever, I am unable to claim an ancestoral visa.

In my opinion, the scheme is an opportunity for me to return to where my ancestors came from. But will I be returning to Scotland? Or to another global community? I want to learn how to speak Gaelic. I think the fact that it is a dying language is terrible. In my opinion, Scotland should welcome people who want to embrace the culture of the land and build up the country for the country's sake. Not people who want to exploit every resouce, people included, that they can.

Am I going to be discriminated against when I reach Scotland?

143

Claire,

South Africa 03/10/2006 16:08:58

Just forgot to add my website for ppl to check out. It has alot more blogs on opinions of South Africa and the like.

144

Virgil,

Vancouver,BC 03/10/2006 19:38:33

To David, #140 Fear not, you will be welcomed to Canada, from my window as write from the den, I am looking across English Bay to Third Beach in Stanley Park and to Claire, #142 adding Gaelic to your linguisic skills may gain some brownie points among a very limited segmant of Scotlands rural population but if you are serious and determined to help the country grow into a part of the Global environment French may help but Mandarin will be essential.

145

David,

Malaysia 04/10/2006 13:10:26

Yet another group have hi-jacked the Immigration Drive ,very successfully too ,making tens of MILLIONS of pounds for themselves, mostly laundered out of the country !
Not Nigerians this time, but a group who lived around Wood Green ,North London. Now there's a co-incidence ! I recall that is where large rival Turkish/Kurdish drug gangs were shooting at each other and battling with tyre-irons, knives and baseball bats, in November, 2002.The Turkish cafes there bar "foreigners" i.e. English,from entering, but still manage to thrive.
The ringleaders of the people smugglers ,managed to bring 100,000 Turkish "immigrants" in to the country and not unreasonably , believed the gang were untouchable.With the ease that many in their community could run protection rackets and heroin dealing, it seemed a fair judgement.
Where are all the Scottish entrepeneurs ? Could nobody in Scotland have brought in new talent and earned tens of millions ?
Anyhow, I hope these new migrants brought all their expertise with them .
I do trust they settle in nicely in their new homeland , and make their country of birth proud of them - after all, they are ambassadors of their country!
When is Turkey becoming part of the EU ?
#144 Eduard . Forgive me , but now I remember you - the bloke who used to shoot the little black squirrels in Stanley Park while singing something that sounded like "Gentille Alouette! " Am I right ?
Will I still be allowed in ? No need to shout "Bravo Ecossais!" I will know you when I see you !
Just joking !

146

John.,

Calgary 04/10/2006 23:16:08

Norman #113 ,

Your claim "ah but we do let them in" is total and complete garbage.

The skilled workers programme is an extremely difficult hurdle for immigrants to overcome and rightly so , only those persons who will be of benefit to the Canadian economy and its People may reside and work in Canada.

This is very different from the situation in Scotland where "any person that can provide cheap labour is welcomed".

Please try to be honest from now on. Our immigration system (for its faults) is based upon what is beneficial to Canadians not what is beneficial to those who wish to exploit , as it is in the U.K.

What is good for the exploitative is bad for the People.


 

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