Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


'Outdated' rape laws set for overhaul

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 03 December 2006
By EDDIE BARNES
POLITICAL EDITOR
THE biggest shake-up of rape laws in Scotland for 30 years has been ordered by ministers in a move that could see hundreds more offenders each year facing potential life sentences.
The narrow definition of rape is set to be replaced with a law covering a wider array of attacks on women and men. It is hoped this will persuade more victims to report attacks in the knowledge there is a greater chance of securing a conviction.

Campaigners are also demanding a new definition of consent, to close a loophole allowing some accused rapists to escape conviction on the grounds a woman had not explicitly objected to sex. They want a system under which a rape would be committed if there was no "tangible act of agreement" from a sexual partner.

For the first time, the law is also expected to tackle 'male-on-male' rape. Currently, rape is only defined as an attack on a woman. The change will bring the law in line with recent reforms in England.

Last week, Scotland on Sunday revealed that as few as 6% of women who seek counselling for rape report the crime to the police. Many may be put off by the prospect of an arduous prosecution process offering little prospect of a conviction: only 4% of reported offences end in a conviction.

Justice minister Cathy Jamieson said she expected recommendations to be made to her early next year. She added that by widening the definition of rape, it may boost conviction rates.

However, the change in the law is unlikely to be put before Parliament until after next May's Scottish elections.

Page 1 of 1

 
1

MacCoinnich,

03/12/2006 02:42:01

Wow, the photographer ventured a whole 10 metres from Barclay towers. Who was the lucky intern who volunteered for the comedy rape pose though?

2

,

03/12/2006 03:18:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 206320, Article id was mapped to record!
3

,

03/12/2006 03:21:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 206322, Article id was mapped to record!
4

,

03/12/2006 04:16:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 206360, Article id was mapped to record!
5

bill, england,

03/12/2006 06:13:48

Fascinating semantics. A person can be raped if they did not agree to sex, objecting to sex is not enough? So the law of contract would apply; this agreement would be given for a consideration. A temporary marriage contract perhaps?

6

Media 1,

Cape Town 03/12/2006 08:58:03

So they pass new legislation in order to obtain more convictions.

Seems a good enough reason until you remember that more convictions will mean more prisoners, which in turn adds to the over crowding problem we all to often hear about.

So does this mean that the new legislation will assist in more convictions, but in effect result in more prisoners being freed?

7

Royster,

03/12/2006 09:09:58

Pendulum may be swinging a little too far in one direction. To be on the safe side perhaps it would be better to video your sexual activity and keep it on a database - just in case you have a barney with your girlfriend and she accuses you of something. Either that or bring in lie detectors. I assume there will be equally harsh penalties for people who make false accusations and waste police time.

8

gerry2,

03/12/2006 09:25:32

This proposal is a reaction to the high acquittal rate in rape cases in Scotland.What needs to be addressed is why this is the case.Are guilty men walking free or is it simply the case that the Crown evidence (principally through the alleged victim) is so poor? Making it easier to secure a conviction ,evidentially,is a highly dangerous strategy and could lead to a substantial increase in miscarriages of justice.

9

Rubbersnap,

03/12/2006 10:07:52

Rape is a terrible crime of assault against an unconsenting person and to make light of it is beyond the boundaries of decency!

Rapists are SCUM!

But, let's be sure the conviction is secure before they're put in that category. I've heard of cases that are quashed due to lack of evidence, not proven and even outright perjury.

I do believe though, that the accused's name should have the protection of the Law, just like the alleged victim's ... until such a time as they are convicted by due process.

Let's be honest, the press get the name of the accused and have him (or her) all but tarred and feathered in full public view, forcing them out of their homes because mud sticks! That is wrong and must be tackled. Stop the media from circumventing the law and justice!!!

10

scottwebb.co.uk,

03/12/2006 10:44:24

The sooner people vote these ministerial enslavement maniacs out the better for all :)

11

Cadgers,

Perth 03/12/2006 10:55:20

That looks awfy like the millenium dome(may all those who thought it up roast in hell), or is it just me?

12

walter,

03/12/2006 11:22:12

Maybe Cathy Jamieson should produce a consent form that each person who wish to have sex can sign and have witnessed by 4 others in triplicate.
Both parties will have to report to a police station and hand one copy to an officer where they will be asked (separately of course) if they agree to the act they are about to carry out.
This way they can disperse with a court case as any sexual act carried out with out the consent form will be rape and the perpetrator can go straight to jail.
Even if reported by a third party that a couple have had sex and the other person says they agreed verbally to the act their word is null and void if they have not signed a consent form and went through the process above.
I am sure that those who are campaigning against the rape conviction rate would then be happy.

13

Mallory,

03/12/2006 11:35:48

Who is supposed to be the rapist in the picture? The character on right looks like signalling a come on.

14

radical pink,

fife 03/12/2006 11:40:40

It seems like every second day there is a politically ambiguous reason for new legislation which strikes me as very odd. Perhaps the rule of law needs closer examination as does the entire judiciary.

Often the extreme ways in which it sentences serious offenders, is mind bogglingly offensive, particularly when leniency is afforded to the most heinous of crimes involving children and other vulnerable categories of society. Conversely judges are rarely, very rarely held to account when they get it wrong or choose to get it wrong.

The rule of law must reflect the voice and concerns of the people it serves, it should not be managed by an arrogantly outdated mode of court conducts that terrorise the victims of crime be it rape or any other crime. I vote for reconciliation of the rules that govern us all and clear and concise terms of imprisonment for those individuals who chose a life of crime.

I’m of the opinion that all too often crime is assuaged by colour, creed, status, location or some other mealy mouthed excuse, crime is crime and equally anyone falsely accusing the innocent should suffer serious penalty, including the police and the courts, who have abused their power to wrongly convict innocents, simply because they can.

And prior to more legislation being vomited up an internal shake-up of judicial procedures, that forces accountability for the protection of the public and stops protecting overpaid and highly contentious positions of cloaked untouchables, who are rarely if ever touched by crime in their private lives that needs sorting.

It’s not the law that’s an ass it’s the interpretation placed in arrogance that requires urgent addressing and why should courts have singular power to unjustifiably let loose murderous criminals, rapists and paedophiles to strike again, clearly a fairer system would allow victims and their families a say in sentencing.

15

fatboyslim,

dumfries 03/12/2006 11:51:58

the photograph of the rapist at the top is a hoddie is this implying that neds are rapists?

16

fatboyslim,

dumfries 03/12/2006 11:54:13

rapists are scum bags we should chemical castrate them (or cut there balls off) along with pedofiles that would make them think twice

17

andrew robertson,

fife scotland 03/12/2006 11:58:56

To those of you out there rape is serious and new laws are needed.At present under scottish criminal lawit is known as common law meaning passed down from generation to generation and if i remember this it means.It is a common law crime to have unlawful caranal knowledge with a female by force and against her will or off a child under 12years old or off a female idiot whether force is used or not.I suggest that this should now be put into the statued books and written down as an act by government together with any future law.

18

skeptic griggsy,

augusta,ga 03/12/2006 12:02:32

I agree with Rubbersnap .The crrown needs indeed to convict more of them.Of course , that is a financial strain but society needs to bring justice for the victims. And as a soft determinist, I favor the law to help change the rapist to become fully human.

19

VickiStewart,

Ohio 03/12/2006 12:28:22

Bravo #17, Andrew! Rape is not a sex crime it is a crime motivated by a power trip, whether by a man or a woman. I was a victim of rape, the rapist threatened me with gang rape; I was terrified!!! Back then in the US it was my word against his, so I advised not to report it. But, I did get my revenge, when I discovered he was ripping off clients. I reported him to the authorities and he went to prison, lost all his worldly possessions to reimburse his other victims, his wife divorced him and he was not permitted to see his kids even after he was released.
Rape is a terrible crime. Why? Because the victim feels shame and revulsion, even self-hate! Thank heavens the days are gone when a raped woman was forced to marry her rapist...at least here in the West! Rape victims are sentenced by the rapist to a life of emotional problems,so why shouldn't the rapist spend his/her life in prison!?!

20

Connor,

03/12/2006 12:30:13

It doesn't need a statute to tell us that rape is a crime. The difficulty with the crime of rape is that it inevitably involves one person's word against another, unless there is sufficient supporting evidence indicating that force or other means was used to overcome the victim, in which a conviction must bring the severest penalty possible.
If that principle of law is altered or reduced it menas that the whole basis of evidence in Scots Law is open to challenge. The potential for a person to be convicted on a lesser degree of evidence that that obtaining at present would increase sunstantially and would result in more wrongful convictions. I believe that because a victim says they were raped is enough for a conviction is a dangerous and perilous route to be taken by Scots Law, although the investigating authorities and support agencies should begin any investigtion from that standpoint as in any other investigation. It is not good enough for investigations to begin with the assumption of trying to undermine an allegation - it isn't done with any other crime.
The manner of dealing with victims of rape and sexual assault is perhaps something which ought to be reviewed yet again but, of course, the aggresive challenging of a victim in Court is something which is under the control of the trial judge, only in the High Court, and it is they towards whom better education should be directed.

21

BigStu,

Consenting adult 03/12/2006 12:36:51

Like many other recent new laws, they need to ensure it can actually be enforced. Too many are enacted to make wee joke and his cronies look like they are doing something but in fact they are badly written and unenforceable.

22

Rob me blind,

03/12/2006 13:04:39

OK so will Cathy Jamieson also pass a law that says any female who reports a rape and either withdraws that allegation or the case is not proved will then be named in open court and will herself be liable to prosecution for making a malicious complaint. Now I know all the female rights crowd will jump on this one saying that such measures would be prevented from reporting a rape, but as they and others are fond of saying if you have nothing to hide and are telling the truth what can happen to you in this democratic country of ours.
Or will this just be another law that favours the femails just like the new socalled family law Scotland act

23

Media 1,

Cape Town 03/12/2006 13:05:59

What I would like to know is how they plan on sentencing these savages once they are convicted..

The new rules means more convictions, but will they all be released after 2 years due to overcrowding?

24

JG,

Fife 03/12/2006 14:04:58

Deal with things properly under the current laws instead of passing yet more legislation to complicate everything even further. The penalties for these crimes are in place - encourage the courts to use them!

#22 Rob me Blind
Don't be so silly. There are many people who report this kind of crime where there is no corroboration - it's the nature of the offence. Does that mean it didn't happen? No! It means it can't be proved legally. Rape is a very traumatic event and has long lasting effects on a person's life - even if it isn't reported to the Police. It's one way of reducung the figures though - who will report it if everyone has your attitude? Of course if anyone makes a false allegation they should be charged - and sentenced in the same way as the guy would have been if he had actually done it. PERSONALLY, I feel defence lawyers are at fault in a lot of cases where rapists get off - not much notice taken of real justice by them!!!

25

Heimdall,

03/12/2006 14:20:02

Since consent and non-consent cannot be proved or disproved and since the plaintiff has to bear the burden of proof, 'Consent', therefore' is really a 'no-goer' except in cases where there are witnesses and/or violence (and the current law deals with this adequately). 'Agreements' are ether not-enforceable by law or they are a 'contract' under which circumstances 'valuable benefit known as consideration' would have to change hands (I believe last time I looked prostitution was against the law). Furthermore one could argue that during the verbal contract one also contracted to have no rights or responsibility over any offspring that may ensue from this act and this 'contract' would then fly in the face of other legislation in existence. The contract therefore, would then have only partial validity and would probably be unenforceable and void. Furthermore, one could say they were solicited into an agreement which was at its base was unlawful which again would render the contract void. Furthermore under this type of law the 'defendant' could well argue that the plaintiff was a recipient of 'Unjust enrichment' especially if liability was later claimed against any offspring ensuing from this act of union - it could have been induced for personal gain and the 'enrichment was therefore at the expense of the claimant'. under these cases 'seduction' could then be argued to be 'duress' under some circumstances. Rape and wrongful allegations of rape are both heinous crimes and should be treated equally by the law very seriously. This article really centres on a very grey and unenforceable area of 'consent', 'agreement' and 'proof' of such decisions that are made in very personal circumstances are are simply impossible to prove, even with recordings - who was to say what was said or agreed off camera or off microphone? One good point from this article though, is that concerning the definition of rape. The law should definitely be re-defined to include rape of men against m

26

fordwych,

scotland 03/12/2006 14:33:49

24 JG

The recent revelation that over 90% of women who claimed to have been given the "date rape drug ",showed no traces of any drug at all other than hugely excessive amounts of alcohol,should give pause to anyone who believes that all women always tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in cases of this nature.

27

Meg,

03/12/2006 15:13:00

#16 I agree.

28

Catharine,

Winnipeg 03/12/2006 16:10:53

#26 Fordwych
I'm not foolish enough to believe that "all women always tell the truth, the whole truth..." but Royhypnol is completely gone from the the system within 72 hours. If a person (male or female) has been drugged with Rohypnol, at least 8-12 of those hours is gone to the blackout state it induces. If people are too ashamed/scared to report a rape they remember all too vividly, what makes you think they'd be rushing in to take the necessary urine-test for something they can't remember?
Rape is not sex. Rape is power & control & violence. The argument that the prisons are too full is puerile. Start looking at more creative ways to deal with the many many non-violent offenders, and incarcerate only those whom society really needs to be protected from.

29

Martha,

03/12/2006 16:19:37

I can honestly say that I have never, except once, heard of a man being raped by a woman (with the exception of statutory rape of a minor by a woman who engaged in sex with him). That was the case of a Mormon man who consented to being tied up in bed in some sick bondage ritual. Then the woman sat on him and satisfied herself. He charged her with rape when she untied him. But a healthy, normal adult male being raped by a woman? It might happen if the woman is extraordinarily large and muscular, and the man is extraordinarily small, weak, and timid. But otherwise, such a scenario is ludicrous.

Here in the USA rape in its usual context (man attacks woman) is considered a crime of extreme violence, frequently ending with the victim's murder. That is why rape is punished here with 25-to-life sentences when the victim isn't murdered, and when she is killed, it's murder one and a capital offense in many states. Get real, Scotland. In rape, the victim's body is penetrated and she suffers extreme mental distress as well as substantial physical pain. This mental anguish does not end the rape is over with. The victim is also exposed to lethal diseases, and many rape victims are in therapy the rest of their lives. Their sex lives are frequently ruined for good; they fear men; they cannot find a long-term nurturing relationship with a man after the rape. If the victim is married, a frequent outcome is divorce. She suffers a social stigma that does not subside for years., because there are still barbarians who like to think that the victim somehow "asked for it." The victim's life, in many aspects, is irrevocably changed. Why should that not result in a lifetime sentence for the male who planned and perpetrated this vicious act? And frankly, capital punishment makes a lot of sense to me. Why should I as a taxpayer support this kind of scum to the end of his natural life in prison, where he can attend college classes, watch television, lea

30

Heimdall,

03/12/2006 16:49:54

29. Martha - nobody could explain more eloquently than you of the horrors and degradation and trauma that rape does to its victim. The problem is that there are those women that claim this event hapened when it simply did not. Inocent people therefore should not be punished by the law under these circumstances. This is why the law needs careful re-definition. The problem, as I explained in entry 25, is that this re-definition cannot be based around the idea of 'consent' since it is hard to prove if there was or was not consent or if consent was uneqivocally given only to have the person change their mind later either on moral grounds, family pressure or the inducement of finacial gain. It is these grey reas that is in debate. Violent rape is easy to prove and is dealt with by the law without difficulty. This revision must also include rape against men includng the less common women's rape of men. I would like to have included, as part of this re-definition of the law, a section that deals with women who lure me into intercourse on the basis of safe-sex only to be actually have an agenda of having a sperm-doner and later extorting from the male money for a child he may never even get to see - this could also be seen as a kind of rape. As an earlier entry suggested, rape is about power and control and that appears in both sexes equally and the law must be fair to all and there is no more prevalent area than in sex where this power struggle is played out. Anger about obvious cases of violation should not taint one's view in unprovable cases or of the legal process.

31

Martha,

03/12/2006 16:52:08

The sad fact is, a much-too-high percentage of rapes are never reported, because the victim is too young, too frightened of the domestic and social consequences, does not understand she should get herself to a hospital and notify the police immediately, or is mentally incompetent and has no way to care for herself in any way.

To show you what a savage and unspeakable act this is, infirm women in hospitals-- even unconscious and in a coma-- have been victims of rape. Infants a few months old, little tiny girls under ten years old, and women in their 80s, have been raped by strangers, fathers, brothers, uncles, neighbors. How sick is that? Why should a rapist only be imprisoned a few years, if at all, after committing such a crime?

As for date rape, it frequently takes longer than 72 hours for the girl to fully understand what happened to her so she can then summon up the mental strength to act on this crime; and by then, the drug has been eliminated from her body. So then she has to prove her case. And that's "he said, she said" taken to its logical extreme. It usually turns out that the man in question, if he is found, has committed this crime more than once. "Sexual predator" is a term describing a real syndrome of behavior, and rapists are predators in the fullest sense of the word.

32

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 03/12/2006 16:58:20

Heimdall, what kind of 'safe sex' leads to pregnancy?...surely if a man wears a condom this is not an issue.

33

Martha,

03/12/2006 17:02:15

Heimdall: intelligently and eloquently put.

Yes, there are women who do the things you explain, but these matters should be listed as a different kind of crime altogether, or civil matters of fraud.

In this country there is a cottage industry of fathers going to wealthy homes where there is a teenage boy, and accusing him of intercourse a girl who is now pregnant. Money is then extorted from the wealthy parents to pay for an abortion. The parents usually pay up and the father is then able to go on to the next boy's home and demand the same, knowing that the first parents he visited will not publicize the event.

Then there is the young teenager who has a fight with her boyfriend and hears from her chums, or mother, or someone, that to get revenge, all she has to do is accuse the boy of rape. The mere threat of a polygraph exam usually is enough to elicit the truth from her.

The sperm donor and appeal for child support situation that you mention no doubt has happened at least once, but again, that is not rape, but fraud and/or extortion, and should be prosecuted as such.

Rape itself, however, is man on woman or man on man (except in a few rare but much-publicized cases like Mary LeTourneau and her 13 year old male victim) and is a planned, sadistic, and vicious crime of violence and depraved indifference. I think it should be punished accordingly.

34

JG,

Fife 03/12/2006 17:02:31

#26 Fordwych
I am not foolish enough to believe that women always tell the truth either! I'm not sure how your argument about the "date rape drug" stacks up though. As Catharine said, it leaves the system very quickly and why would it be a surprise that people who allege being drugged when their drinks are "spiked" would have alcohol in their systems? That's where the perpetrator has put the drug!

So, to ensure they don't get raped women should not drink alcohol, go out alone or wear clothes that are so provocative men are unable to control themselves?

From an evidential point of view it's relatively easy to prove the "drag the victim into the bushes and rape them" kind of crime. The more difficult ones are the so called "aquaintance" rapes where it boils down to who you believe.

35

John in Texas,

Texas 03/12/2006 17:09:27

I do not know how the Laws work there,but when a woman or a man or child says NO---- It Means NO!
Unwanted sexual contact is Not having sex. It is some sick person Forcing themselves on another person. This does not make anyone Big, Strong, or Masculine in any sense of the word. It makes them a very SICK person that Desparately Needs to be Punished. In fact, I think the Perpetrator should Have Exactly what They Did to the Victim- Done To Them. Then, Maybe they will understand that what they DID was Immoral, Evil, and Illegal. I think that the Punishment should Fit the Crime. Castration could possibly be substituted for Some of the Prison time, but they should ALL get Some Prison Time out of it. People in Prison have Sisters and Children on the outside...... Prisoners Don't Like Rapists, Get the Picture.

36

Scunnered,

East Renfrewshire 03/12/2006 17:14:35

Andrew #17 is correct with the common law definition of rape. There would be no point in creating a statutory law from a common law EXCEPT that it is now felt necessary to protect men from rape. Almost all men would not contemplate reporting being raped due to being laughed at. It is not considered manly to report that you have been physically overwhelmed and sexually assaulted. I'm sure that it happens, more so in prisons I suspect, but who would report it with any confidence of being taken seriously?
Similarly, women who place themselves in compromising situations are almost always in a untenable position if they choose to report the rape, inasmuch as it will always be her word against the word of the man (who will invariably lodge a defence that the woman consented). A court can't convict on this type of scenario UNLESS the woman did her best to fight off the man and there was corroborating evidence of that, for example, by way of bruises, scratches, etc.
In essence, rape - unless it is a case of a woman being atacked outside and being ravished - is very difficult to prove, and the accused will always get the benefit of any doubt.
The Joyce McKinney case which Martha #29 alludes to was banner headlines in the newspapers simply because it was incredulous to most that a man would allow himself to be tied up by a woman and sexually assaulted.
The police will no doubt attest to the number of woman reporting rape the day after the event. In many instances they will tell of women having had a 'fling' with a man whilst under the influence of drink on a night out, will begin to worry about the consequences of her boyfriend/husband finding out or about picking up a STD, and spuriously report her 'rape' after she thinks about the consequences of her sexual intercourse. These common occurrences, I suspect, are the reason why police quiz the person reporting rape so thoroughly in an effort to ascertain whether it was genuine. This very process, of co

37

Martha,

03/12/2006 17:24:01

No woman asks to be raped. In civilized, free nations, women ideally should be able to move about any time and anywhere without being assaulted.

There used to be laws for "licentious carriage," a misdemeanor offense for which there might be a fine and a lecture from a judge. I don't know if any of these laws are still on the books, but they addressed the issue of provocative female attire on the street as the standard defense of the perpetrator: "she asked for it."

Men are either Pavlovian dogs when it comes to sex, or are human beings with free will and the ability to control their impulses. If men are nothing but a system of reflexes when they confronted with even a clothed female, then it is the men who should be locked up, instead of the women as is the custom in these muslim countries we're coming to know all too well.

It is a standard defense of pedophiles to assert that the underage victim "came on to" them. And it is the standard defense of males accused of date rape that the female consented to the sexual act. These men may actually believe on some level that the accepting a date is tantamount to acquiescing to sexual activity-- who knows?

With no physical evidence of a brutal rape, it is indeed difficult to judge which one of the parties is lying about rape, which is why polygraphs can help to some extent. However, the girl's usual recollections leave out a space of time in which she is unconscious when it's drug date rape. And if drugs aren't used, the girl should be able to relate a series of events with small details that are very potent evidence for a criminal prosecutor.

38

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 03/12/2006 17:24:56

People dont always get the chance to say no...especially children who are coerced and manipulated into accepting violation or else they or their family will suffer. Many men have threatened women that they will kill them if they refuse intercourse..would you say no? I had a friend who, on a night out with a group of friends, met a really nice guy in the pub...they got on extremely well, they had a lot in common, he was funny and intelligent and they shared the same tastes in music etc. They left the pub together to go to another and he dragged her down a lane and raped her, she did not report it as she knew there was no way she could prove it. He was far stronger than her and threatened to kill her. Unfortunately the end result of this violation was that she had to endure an abortion.....not something you want at the grand old age of 18. As I said people are not always able to say no for a variety of reasons....fear...coercion..manipulation...blackmail..unconsciousness..

39

Heimdall,

03/12/2006 17:26:38

32. Doreen - I was referring to when a woman may say its ok I am on the pill etc..... probably not as common now, I do not know. When the passions are aroused and if the female happens to have a different agenda its easy to mislead an unsuspecting male to become a sperm-doner. Personally waiting until you get married or have an emotionally cloes relationship before sexual intimacy is explored is the best prevention of exploitation of both men and women. 33 Matha - I think we are coming from the same place thanks for the feedback

40

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 03/12/2006 17:33:49

Unfortunately Heimdall that aint going to happen as sex is always on the agenda and sex sells....whether its music or coffee...thats just the way it is now. Any man or woman who accepts a one night stand without adequate protection, ie a condom (male or female) is being exceptionally stupid....no no no no no!....nasty and very dangerous!!

41

d,

edinburgh 03/12/2006 17:36:35

the only way to increase conviction rates in rape cases is to introduce lie detector evidence. What the public don't know is the FACT that woman lying is on the increase and yet not one chief constable or politician has got the balls to highlight this fact. All these newly implemented rape laws make it easier for men to suffer Miscarriages of Justice. Where is the justice there? Lie Detector tests would be helpful in gaining convictions of the guilty and at the same time, highlight the fact a small majority of evil woman lie. it seems this government don't care if men are wrongfully convicted-they're just interested in increasesing their conviction rates.this is supported by the ludicrous sentences handed down to a small majority of woman who do lie.

42

Bob Fanning,

Montana,USA 03/12/2006 17:50:31

Now I get it.
I come to Scottland and buy a Scottish woman a couple of drinks and flirt with fortunate results.
She runs a credit check while I sleep.

Scotish law in collaboration with the man haters union asks me , {under Scotish law, guilty untill I prove myself innocent} to produce evidence of a " tangible act of agreement " AKA a written permission slip.

Then the Scottish legal system shakes me & my liability carrier down for my entire net worth.
Victims have power....Scotland has just announced to all Her women that they now have the power to destroy any man she may chose.
Best of luck with your tourism industry.

Glad I dont drink or golf.

43

d,

edinburgh 03/12/2006 17:57:41

totally agree #42

44

Harry Carnie,

British Columbia Canada. 03/12/2006 18:14:20

This is a total infringement of the accused(rapists) rights. We would NOT stand for it here in Canada or the U.S. (this is sarcasm of course)

45

Kenneth,

03/12/2006 18:20:32

The ultimate time in prison should be life. This does not solve all of the differant variations of rape, however, it is a start in addressing the act and not trying to cure the rapist. If a judge's hands are tied and he is forced by law to release an animal early, then these hands must be untied.

46

Neil,

9% Growth Party 03/12/2006 18:23:24

"tangible act of agreement"

I hope the Minister doesn't actually know what the word "tangible" means.

If he does he is saying that anybody who has sex is going to have to provide & receive a written document of permission. Maybe we could buy preprinted packets of them.

Odds on mine would last till the rubber perishes.

47

,

03/12/2006 18:33:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 207185, Article id was mapped to record!
48

Dutch-Indo: Ernie,

Los Angeles, Califonia 03/12/2006 19:08:45

Andrew (#17) really hit the nail on the head with his comments on "common law": for which much of American laws get their precedents not already covered by the Constitution or Bill of Rights. The comment on committing a crime against any insane individual, when the initiation of force is not an issue, must also be considered. Then Catharine (#28) drove that nail into the ground by stressing how important it is to "incarcerate only those whom society really needs to be protected from." ... Otherwise I view politicians influenced by the perpetuated stigma of Original Sin, which claims that man is evil by birth -- that he has no will, no power to change his evil ways.

49

Wee Hev,

Doon Unner 03/12/2006 20:07:24

Any guy who takes advantage of a drunk woman, or who actually premeditates doing so is not a man.

Very few women cry "rape" for revenge. To see what they are put through in court should turn any man's stomach.

Lassies who become blootered need to be looked after, not humiliated.

Here in Australia there is currently a case where a perfectly nice married woman went on a cruise with her wee girl - holiday of a life-time she saved for years for - and a gang of animals drugged and raped her. She died of an overdose of GHB and even in death was subjected to grotesque humiliations.

These bastards will probably walk, because no-one actually saw them slip the drug to her, and subsequently abuse her. All are known to have assaulted women in the past,and all have got off with it. All concerned also deal drugs. All were scaring young women with their predatory behaviour on the night of the murder/rape.

This lady, the victim, had never taken drugs in her life and wasn't even a drinker. Does the judge suppose she had a sudden change of heart, wolfed down six large ones and a handful of tablets,and had group sex with strangers?

Women are our equals, but they do need to be protected from sexual predators. If the law does not do this it biases itself to the idea that a man has somehow got a "right" to help himself to any woman he chooses, whether she agrees or not.

Guys who have sex with women who are passed out are rapists, pure and simple.

I'm amazed at the ill-concealed misogyny of some of the wee men who contribute opinions. The idea that there is some kind of "feminist conspiracy" is not new. It was being trotted out by the same wee inadequates in the 19th century (the playwright Strindberg, and that other twat DH Lawrence being perfect examples...)

The new laws simply don't go far enough: "Rape" should include any sex act performed on a non-consenting woman, or man, for that matter

50

fordwych,

scotland 03/12/2006 20:11:03

28, 31, 34

In the study I quoted(which you can find online @yahoo news 16 november) all 120 alleged victims had been tested inside 72 hours,so the failure to find Rohypnol was not because it had passed through the body ,but because it had never been there at all.

By way of contrast "In most cases the alleged victims had consumed alcohol voluntarily and in some cases to dangerous levels" to quote the spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers who conducted the study

51

Wee Hev,

Doon Unner 03/12/2006 20:19:02

So are you saying that if a woman is so drunk she thinks she may have been drugged (we've all had "Bad Pint Syndrome", let's be honest....) she is simply a liar and therefore anything that happens to her is her own fault?

52

Branda,

Arizona 03/12/2006 20:23:55

No one is disputing the seriousness and horrors of rape. The Scotsman article appears to be exclusive to male/female and male/male adults. Obviously a comatose patient, drugged teen or babe is not a *consenting* adult.

What concerns me are statements like, "They want a system under which a rape would be committed if there was no "tangible act of agreement...""

Rape certainly is a serious matter and quite often extremely violent, resulting in long-term psychological trauma and multiple injuries or death. A loopy law like this could make a mockery of actual rape cases. I do not want to see a man's life destroyed--his family, career, finances, imprisonment--because she's regretting her dippy liaison.

Going to man's hotel room, bedroom, or parties where booze and drugs flow freely or dressing suggestively is an invitation to trouble. Behaving irresponsibly and then crying foul... I don't think so. There has to be some individual accountability here. And there is not enough of that these days of blame games.

I practice self-defence, strength training, and carry a weapon. If I need to go out late at night, I'm always assessing my situation. If a man attempts to lay an unwelcome hand upon me, there's going to be one helluva fight because I must assume murder is the ultimate goal. And it is legal to kill in self-defence. There will be no college classes, TV, or library study for this scumbag when I'm done.

Does anyone here even know what the current Scotland law says--verbatim? Dig up a copy and read it. I'd want to read this first, then voice my concerns to the ministers from an informed perspective. They'll listen if enough people get fed up.

Branda the Barbarian

53

Bulldog,

St Andrews 03/12/2006 20:32:37

With regards to the rape laws being overhauled - it's about time we get out of the stone age and into the modern world. In most countries if a woman says NO to a man pertaining to touching her breasts or but* or trying to force himself into her it is considered rape.

Ladies and gents. This is something that was grossly overdue. I know a child that is 16 now and when she was 11 and walking home from school one day she was dragged into a yard and raped. I know because myself and a neighbour pulled the man off of her and it was my jacket that covered her naked body in wintertime and I was the the one that took her to the hospital. While I did that the neighbour turned him over to the police. Two eyewitnesses to a rape of a child.

The crude jokes by the constables that were called by the hospital was most obscene and like being raped again - total disrespect. Myself, the doctor, her parents were all there. The mum just wanted to die as she felt she failed her child even though the school is only 10 houses from where this child lived. These are parents and a child plus siblings - ladies and gents - it's called a family and one was RAPED and it's like a raping a family physically and also of their dignity.

By the way, GREAT NEWS > the RAPIST was given three years probation. That was the punishment instead of castration plus jail for life.

Well, congrats Scotland, the child (victim) has attempted suicide twice already that I am aware of and still does not have a normal life and you know what - she never will. She can't look at boys as she is afraid. She can't go to the library alone. She is being home schooled now as she was made to feel like She Caused It by the rapist's lawyer. The idiot judge allowed a child to be cross examined instead of taking video-taped testimony like NY does. What a sick system.

To all you idiots that think the laws are perfect - until it happens to your child or sister or mum you can keep right on being nega

54

Heimdall,

03/12/2006 20:48:14

41. d - 1. Lie detectors are not conclusive as they can be easily give the wrong answer either by design of the person it is applied to or by simply not working well. 2. Since we ae dealing with lies here there is no way to quantify the number of the "small majority" who lie. I do though agree with your sentiment.

55

Heimdall,

03/12/2006 20:49:00

44. Harry Carnie - What is?

56

Wee Hev,

Doon Unner 03/12/2006 20:54:46

Bulldog, you're a man after my own heart.

If I had been with you that day the polis would only have got the rapist after a wee bit of rough justice had been dealt!

Rape is disgusting. Rapists give up their right to be treated as human. Therefore punishing them is essential. Yes to castration,and I would also advocate a f****** big tatto on their foreheid, reading "Rapist" or "Paedophile" whichever applies (as sex with a child can NEVER imply consent!)

Lawyers who defend these animals should really be put straight about what they are doing. How do they sleep?

Suffice to say, anyone defiling any member of MY family is a dead man.

57

Heimdall,

03/12/2006 20:55:06

49. Wee Hev et. al. If a woman is deemed out of control and helpless when drunk then surely in the eyes of the law so is a man

58

Heimdall,

03/12/2006 20:59:38

53. Rennie - Would you suggest that on flimsy evidence or simply on the say-so of a woman that simply changed her mind after the event. Penalties for breaking the laws in UK (unlike the USA) are far less permanent since it recognises that everyone has a motive to lie. What is really the issue here is that they want the law changed in the light of this idea of consent that actally has no weight in the eyes of the law even if it could be proved. We all have strong views of the truly guilty this is not in question

59

Heimdall,

03/12/2006 21:11:08

40. Doreen - I am a born romantic and believe in love and (probably to my detriment) easy prey to the less than wholesome female of the species. At some point though, it seems to me that condoms will not always be on the agenda. By your argument though, If one night stands are at the risk of the participants then that goes for both man and the woman. By the way, are you sure "sex is always on the agenda" what happened to being friends, sharing and talking and imnnocent fun?

60

Harry Carnie,

British Columbia , Canada. 03/12/2006 21:14:19

Man being "raped" by a woman? my gosh, when I was in my teens... I would have been A PUSH OVER!
At the present (my age) she would be wasting her efforts.

61

Harry Carnie,

British Columbia , Canada. 03/12/2006 21:29:11

#56.. the fact of tightening rape laws (there) Here (in Canada) we ALLOW our criminals freedom (assaults, murders, you name it) to continue their pursuits, unhindered. (this is hard on us citizens, but our officials do not appear to give a rat`s ass)
Look up sarcasm.

62

RAV,

CANADA 03/12/2006 22:05:09

As you are required to sign a contract to buy/sell a home, car, household appliance, or to hire/provide labour why not a similar contract for sex, witnessed?

63

RAV,

CANADA 03/12/2006 22:07:36

#62 H Carnie If your claim that "...our criminals... continue thier pursuits, unhindered." had any validity why do we have so many prople in jail for sexual assault, manslaughter, murder?

64

Branda,

Arizona 03/12/2006 23:11:05

Rav 63, I think we've just strayed from rape over into the prostitution zone.

This may be helpful to you:
Rapist Profile
www.rsad.budocentral.com/The_rapist.htm

Take a look at the *type* of rapists and *stats* too. 80% of rapists said they would stop an attack, and have stopped before an attack if the victim fought back.

My instructor has always maintained that showing fear is the worst possible thing. It's better to be shot or stabbed and left for dead rather than being dragged off to an unpopulated and remote location. If you are injured and left for dead, you have a chance at someone finding you and getting help. But if you're dragged off, then your attacker can torture at leisure and then finish you off. Given a choice, I prefer a quick death.

Guys, teach your wives, daughters, girlfriends some key self-defence manuevers and go to the gym and pump some iron with them. They'll love you for it. Keeps everyone mentally and physically fit.

65

Jason,

03/12/2006 23:30:04

Rape is a vile crime more about domination, violence and humiliation than sex. Especially the lie-in-wait, drag a passing stranger into the bushes type rape. Any man that commits this unspeakable act is a brute and unmitigated scoundrel. Because this cannot be remotely excused by any imbalance in the supply and demand ratio. That said, there are clearly degrees of rape as there are degrees of murder. But the proposed new guidelines to establish grounds to determine if rape occurred mean that any woman that wakes up with a hangover and a bad case of "buyer's remorse" has been given carte blanche to scream "rape". Consider the blackmail implications. A lady lies to protect her emotional chastity; she has to make herself and others believe that she was carried away by the passion of the moment. If she hitting the bottle a little harder than usual, then tonight’s the night and she's simply establishing her alibi. So boys, make sure you are as gentle to her the next morning as you were the previous night, or slammer time beckons. All this is brought on by the obsession for politically correct feminism. Another item for your "Reasons to Emigrate" list. We don't do feminism here in Japan, only feminine.

66

Heimdall,

04/12/2006 00:30:04

65. Branda - "80% of rapists said they would stop an attack...." These are criminals and are therefore hardly likely to tell the truth or cooperate with statistical research. To be effective in self defence one would have to reach a very high standard, especially these days as more and more people are becoming skilled street fighters and very useful with knives - remember these people do this as a way of life and even as a business (when done with mugging) a few hours at the gym a few times a week will not stand up against a 'professional' especially when they may well have a weight advantage and the element of surprise which probably includes a heavy blow to the head or a trip that puts you down and at a severe disadvantage to begin with. Being 'useful' is always better than 'useless' but do not rely on it - these people are fired up and desperate. Recognise the limitations of your martial skill and extend it more into heightened sensitivity and prevention like, not walking through remote regions alone etc. Secondly it is NOT BETTER TO BE LEFT FOR DEAD. If you are alive there are still chances and hope DEAD is final. The issue here is on the widening of the legislation but since this topic came up.... I would hate to see some innocent person get the wrong idea with a few lessons of self defence behind them deluding themselves they can look after themselves out there. Prevention and avoidance is always the best course and in the vast majority of cases that would have been the solution.

67

Heimdall,

04/12/2006 00:41:34

63. RAV - See my point raised in entry 25 "......'Agreements' are ether not-enforceable by law or they are a 'contract' under which circumstances 'valuable benefit known as consideration' would have to change hands....." A contract therefore implies sex for money - i.e. prostitution. The only other contract I know that accepts that sex is by consent is the contract of Marriage (although I accept that violent rape can occur in this contract). Furthermore this does not acount for a change of heart of the woman and the claim that the contract was varied by mutual consent or negotiation - who can prove it? It simply does not work. Besides whizzing up to the Commissioners of Oaths every time you feel amourous takes the edge off the romance a bit.

68

Heimdall,

04/12/2006 00:48:50

61. Harry Carnie - There are quite a few nasty things that could happen to you if you were drugged and/or were not up to it - these thoings do happen and the law needs to take this into account including man raping man and the prison problem of multiple inmates in the same cell etc. referred to in entry 25

69

Wee Hev,

Doon Unner 04/12/2006 01:57:29

Heimdall: If a man is out of it on drugs or drink, but he can still achieve sufficient erection to penetrate a woman, then he is not "out of control" and cannot plead being so, even if he suffers alcoholic anmesia.

However, a woman in the same drunken state -paralytic - cannot be deemed to consent if she is unconscious/semi-conscious. She is not perpetrating an act simply by lying there drunk. Whereas a man, out of control on drink/drugs is still actively perpetrating an act. There's a f****** big difference.

If, next time you have a skin-full of Bremen's finest, some clown climbs in your windae and scuttles your back boiler, you'll not mind, then?

70

Wee Hev,

Doon Unner 04/12/2006 02:00:52

66 Naw, you don't do women's rights either in Japan. Didn't during the war either, when Dutch women in Java, some nuns, were subjected to all sorts of filthy business by Japanese soldiers, for whom rape was deemed a spoil of war.

Before you leap to their defence, I am aware that rogue soldiers from the allied side also did some bad things, but it wasn't institutionalised and actively encouraged the way it was with the Japs and Russians.

71

Illusionsaregrander,

04/12/2006 02:16:36

*sigh* While I do not dispute the fact that there may be the odd case of a woman who cries "rape" when in fact there has been none, the reaction I see from many of the men on this board borders on the ridiculous. The fact is many more women are raped and sexually assaulted than report it, even using the statistics from the article one can deduce that. Those statistics are not some aberration either which could be written off as shoddy reporting, they are very similar to what comes up in study after study. There is no way to protect every innocent person from the flawed justice system, but at the same token if the conviction rates for murder were anywhere near that pitiful number these same men would be up in arms. The truth of the matter is that it is only because this is a crime against women, that they do not expect could happen to them that this issue is trivialised. I always wonder when these sorts of posts pop up how many guys like this are just so adamant that these women are crying rape unjustly because they themsleves have pushed sex on someone they knew did not want to. Perhaps not in the knife at the throat sort of way, but in the passed out on the couch sort of way, or simply refused the no and pushed until they got their way sort of rape. Date rape in other words. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if at least one of the posters above who are so quick to blame the woman does so out of a guilty conscience, not out of moral outrage as they would like us to believe.

72

Illusionsaregrander,

04/12/2006 02:23:12

Wee Hev, I admire you.

73

Branda,

Arizona 04/12/2006 02:58:44

Heimdall 67.
"Prevention and avoidance is always the best course..."

I do believe we are on the same page here. But stuff does happen in spite of our best efforts.

I witnessed a rape. I was not quite 5 years of age. I don't remember all of the details surrounding the break-in because I was just too small. But I do remember the violence, screaming, crying, and pleading to stop. He didn't stop. I'll never forget it, nor do I want to forget because it keeps me strong. It is a horror permanently etched in my memory bank.

No man, and I mean no man, will ever do that to me. I will go down fighting--to the death--if I am forced to. I will not be dragged off and tortured. And yes, Heimdall, fighting is very effective. I only know what policemen and instructors tell me, plus those women who have successfully fought off an attack. I'm sorry, but I just can't do any better than this for you. I can't guarantee 100% success from an attack. Even a man can get whacked on the head from behind. But what I can do is not be compliant--not ever.

My friends tease me about my Barbie doll looks, but my boyfriend says that he pities any man that underestimates me because of my size and appearance. And if you know anything about weight lifting, you don't need more than three days per week in the gym. I may not be competitive with the male weight lifters I work out with each week, but I'm awesome to watch against the average man who does not work out regularly. I can and do hold my own in the strength department.

I keep myself mentally and physically fit. It's a helleva lot better than doing NOTHING.

Let's be very clear here. Rapists do not like a lot of noise and attention, they don't like to bleed, they don't like well-lit areas, and they sure as hell don't like it when women fight. They are counting on the fact they most women scare easily and don't fight because someone like you comes along and tells they can't; d

74

gaffer,

canada 04/12/2006 03:12:17

in the final outcome, those who are found guilty first of all should be castrated, then jailed for the age the are . a person aged 16 would be jailed for 16 years with no parole, a person aged 30 , would be jailed fo 30 years, lets take some of the penalties from the arab countries, that would slow down our problems with some criminals

75

Branda,

Arizona 04/12/2006 05:32:52

Gaffer 75
"...those who are found guilty first of all should be castrated..."

We know that's just not going to happen in 'polite' society. And if I do it in self defence, he'll find a doctor who will stitch them back on, then find a greedy lawyer to come sue me, and a brain dead judge who will be more than happy to take the case and put me through months of hell.

Nope, methinks 'twould be best to eliminate the SOB--put him out of his freakin' misery permanently so he can't come back to torment anyone through the lame judicial system. Makes the world a safer place and saves the tax payers a lot of money on so many different levels.

76

Citizen,

usa 04/12/2006 07:54:17

Maybe tougher laws, even as crazy as these are, would make guys think twice before they have casual sex with just anyone? Maybe?

Thankfully, as an American, I can carry a weapon. I have no intention of letting anyone hurt me like that.

It is freaking me out that so many people think more about innocent guys getting jailed than they do about guilty, dangerous people getting away with it. More concern about individual rights than the protection of society as a whole is going to be a huge problem, it already is and it's only going to get worse.

Where is this world going to? And how do I get out of this hand basket?

77

Reiver,

Edinburgh 04/12/2006 09:19:15

#22 I agree totally with you ... # 24 I think you miss the point then try to make up for it ...

#72 as do many men who experience this and not report it, this is not simply a gender biased issue.

#77 lets hope you and your weapon stay in America ... gun laws operate in the UK (thankfully) ...

The concern as i see it is that the media seem to think that new legislation will remove the protection of the "presumed innocent until proven guilty" premise ... cries of rape are simply that and a low conviction rate means simply that more cries are heard than rapes are perpetuated ... rape should be treated as with all other crime, the accused is entitled to be accorded with their rights and the accuser should be made equally aware of the issues around perjury.

Lets not forget that even the bible warns of the woman scorned ... probably appropriate given the amount of American's posting here !!!

78

liveasahb,

planet Earth 04/12/2006 10:02:00

We've forgotten God. That's sad, very sad. When a human being forgets to act like a hguman being the entire society must think:

WHY?

Because women are not what they have to be; all that mass media is teaching is to think at yourself, to be proud, not to listen to somebody that is trying to give a hand, YOU are the most important!

Is it true?

It's a lie. We atre important if we act like human beings, if we care for each other, if we learn to love all those around us...

It is very strange that girls nowadays forgot to act sweet, they show everything like a store! May God help all the boys and girls in the world to choose HIM, to look at LIGHT and to try to move toward it;we forgot to pray, tio be kind, to care for those in need. We would like to be likle someone with a wonderful villa and car but we don't want to see those that have not water to drink, or a proper bed to sleep ...let's come back to what we have to be!

79

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 04/12/2006 10:08:22

60..Heimdall, sure fun and friendship exists but young people today do not have the same social constraints as they did in the past. You will not find a huge amount of young people waiting for an emotional attachment or marriage before they have sexual intercourse. When I say sex is always on the agenda what I mean is, it is fast approaching 2007 and we are inundated and besieged by sexual imagery...in mainstream films (now explicit) as never before, in advertising and the music industry. We have rock stars making porn movies in America and American actresses and the odd heiress appearing in home made porn movies on the internet. The internet of course is a mecca to all lovers of porn and negates the need for flowers, chocolates and sweet nothings. If you prefer to watch women or children being physically and verbally abused or humiliated you can find it here.
This kind of stuff does feed perverted fantasies and minds and does exacerbate the incidence of rape and pedophilia when these monsters are not getting what they want from a consenting adult sexual relationship. I have started rabbling now....yes there is still stigma attached to carrying a condom, for young women it is the badge of a 'slag' and for young men it is some kind of affront to their masculinity. This still needs to be addressed and I think as a precautionary measure, all young people should carry them.

70...Weehev...ahhhh so thats what you meant when you said that I needed a 'Scuttling from behind' on another subject....thank you for clearing that up for me....are you a man incidentally?

80

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 04/12/2006 10:14:43

79.....you are obviously some kind of bible bashing or koran thumping drone. YOU PEOPLE SCARE ME!!!!!.......So its our fault we get raped pal because we not what we 'have to be' or 'forget to act sweet and show everything like a store'....pass me me curtain and I'l sit in the corner all sweet like...pass me the effin sick bag while your at it! Nice sentiments clouded in a blame the wimmin bag of moralistic p*sh

81

,

04/12/2006 13:59:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 208540, Article id was mapped to record!
82

Branda,

Arizona 05/12/2006 06:01:04

Reiver 78.
You said, "...appropriate given the amount of Americans posting here !!!"

:) You really don't much like Yanks and Aussies, do you, darlin'? Weel, I s'pose ye be wantin' to be the only cock (domestic chicken) struttin' around the coop, eh? I sympathize with you, but we really mean you no harm.

But ya gotta know you weans need help--and lots of it, right?

If you want to know what could happen to you boys, you might want to take a look at what happened to an Aussie man when the Western Australian parliament *improved* their rape laws. Scroll down to:

The diabolical episode of the 30-second rapist
www.australian-news.com.au/anti_male.htm

And do notice that these two evil wenches only served seven months behind bars for their little coup de maitre. I guess the epilogue to my unwelcome rant is beware of today's rabid feminists playing your politicians. They are not out to improve the lives of women, but they are determined to screw with yours. They just don't like you. Get it? Here in the US they will defend a Muslim terrorist and spit on a decent, law-abiding American boy. And we women who defend common sense and decency are considered lower than dirt.

The Scotsman article above--as it reads--just does not sound to me like your leaders are really serious about getting tougher on rapists. Your penal system is almost as bad as ours. We've rewarded criminals to the point that there is no longer any incentive not to commit crimes of brutality. They have no fear of tough and tougher laws because prison time is akin to a vacation. Romeo, however, will need to be very cautious of Juliet lest she turn into a black widow and eat him after the mating is done.

You best wake up and take a whiff of the smellin' salts on this one.

Bon appetit,

Branda the Barbarian

83

Citizen,

05/12/2006 09:09:21

Silly Reiver at 78.

Who said my weapon is a gun, fool.

I am trained to be deadly with my dirk.....seems to be the weapon of choice in the UK< aye???

84

Heimdall,

05/12/2006 12:40:13

83. Branda - Interesting readin, thank you. I did read your earlier entry. I still think you are better of alive than dead and if you really are cornered then do the best you can that is definitely not wrong. Carrying 'offensive weapons' in this country is against the law and ironically acquires a greater sentence (even the simple possession of one) than the actual bodidy harm inflicted on the individual by the crminal. We need to kep our eye onn theball here. Laws are created by government and are therrefore politically motivated. Our current government is hell-bent on destroying the will of the people and one of the ways they are doing this is to create impossible or unjust laws that are so unfair that the morale of the population is whittled away little by little. Lets not get carried away verbally attacking the rapists - if they are reading this it will not make any difference to them. Let us insted direct our attention to the real enemy which are the law makers - we put them in power in the first place and we can legally put them out.

85

Heimdall,

05/12/2006 12:44:58

Sorry for the spelling mistakes in 85 above - this one was done in a rush!


 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
RSS Feed of this article's comments
Delivery formats: RSS, Atom, Javascript & Email
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.