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SNP to draw up Scottish policy on reserved matters



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Published Date: 31 August 2008
By Eddie Barnes
Political Editor
ALEX Salmond and his ministers are to draw up official Scottish Government foreign policy independently from the rest of Britain, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.


The First Minister has decreed that he and other SNP ministers are to declare Scottish Government positions on everything from the future of Nato to the conflict in Iraq, if asked by members of the public.

The move marks a huge change from pre
vious Labour-led administrations who passed all such "reserved" matters over to the UK Government.

However, the SNP said that people are "entitled" to know the views of the SNP Government on such issues, claiming it represents Scots better on such matters than the UK Government.

But the move has now prompted a backlash from the UK Government, which pointed out that the SNP was not elected on an international affairs ticket last year, and therefore cannot claim to represent a Scottish Government position.

The major shift in policy is disclosed in an internal memo, leaked to Scotland on Sunday, which changes the way ministers deal with public correspondence.

Anyone writing to the Edinburgh administration asking for ministers' views on such "reserved" matters as foreign affairs will now get an official reply, representing the views of the Scottish Government.

On issues where the SNP disagrees with the UK Government on reserved matters, the memo states that ministers will henceforth issue an official Scottish Government verdict to any correspondence.

A senior Scottish Government source said the main effect of the changes would be to allow ministers to offer a Scottish Government view on international maters.

The source said: "This is new guidance for ministerial offices in responding to correspondence on reserved issues. Clearly, on a number of subjects reserved to Westminster – including international affairs and Trident nuclear weapons – the Scottish Government has a different position from the UK administration, and one more in tune with the majority of people in Scotland."



UK ministers said there was nothing wrong with SNP ministers offering personal views on "reserved matters" when asked by members of the public, but they warned that to issue an official Scottish Government policy statement broke the devolution settlement.

Scotland Office Minister David Cairns said: "Alex Salmond fundamentally has no respect for devolution. The devolution divide has been backed by the people of Scotland, who have voted for it. That means that the people of Scotland want Westminster to do some things and the Scottish Government to do other things. We respect that, but he has contempt for it."

A Whitehall source said: "I don't know on what basis they can produce a Scottish Government view on these areas."





The full article contains 446 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 30 August 2008 6:48 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

Senga Jean,

30/08/2008 23:59:47
Sounds very sensible to me. I canny be bothered with this business of not dealing with some matters because I am just the bairn. Stand up for Scotland!
2

Jimmy Le Pie,

30/08/2008 23:59:51
I would have thought that idiot Cairns would be keeping a low profile after his humiliation in Glasgow East.

But no, here he is telling us what's good for us.

It won't be long, Cairns, before your day of judgement comes.

VOTE SNP in GLENROTHES
3

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 00:00:50
The Scottish people decide how things are done in Government. The Scottish people decides who does what and where.

Why is Salmond and the SNP so arrogant as to refuse to do the work they were elected to do. Police Officers etc. and instead carry on like tyrants who are above the democratic process.

The last time Salmond wrote to foreign leaders he was ignored. This is a technical resignation of Government, I hope someone calls it. Government's are only allowed to do what Parliament passes, if they do something without parliamentary approval they must resign.
4

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

31/08/2008 00:01:20

Cairns is becoming more shrill by the day.

Give it up David, after Glenrothes you'll be out of a job

5

Resolutions,

31/08/2008 00:02:40
"Scotland Office Minister David Cairns said: "Alex Salmond fundamentally has no respect for devolution. The devolution divide has been backed by the people of Scotland, who have voted for it. That means that the people of Scotland want Westminster to do some things and the Scottish Government to do other things. We respect that, but he has contempt for it."

A Whitehall source said: "I don't know on what basis they can produce a Scottish Government view on these areas."

So why, David Cairns, are folk asking what are the SNPs, SCOTTISH Labour party and SCOTTISH libdems views on various things?

And Whitehall, how can YOU produce a view on these areas? Everyone has a right to their view, whatever it may be.
6

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

31/08/2008 00:03:09
3 1/10 Cats, 31/08/2008 00:00:50

What are you so concerned about how the Scottish Government respondss to questions asked of it by the Scottish people.

It appears that you are advocating state censorship.

Get over yourself will ye, the empire died decades ago





7

,

31/08/2008 00:06:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 00:13:59
8

The Scottish Government can make comments that suit the SNP.
9

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 31/08/2008 00:20:14
once again unionists can't make their minds up, it only seems like yesterday when they were complaining that the SNP had no policy ideas other than independece, now when they are in government and they give the lie to this by showing that not only do they have others, but they will be open about them, the unionists start crying foul.

What have they got against open government other than the fear that it might set a good example?
10

Jimmy Le Pie,

31/08/2008 00:20:16
The SNP government just keep going from strength to strength.

New Labour Sleaze just keep going deeper and deeper into the she ite.

Oh happy days
11

Mercian,

UK 31/08/2008 00:52:28
This is basically the SNP stirring it up some more. They're know Salmond is a hit with the public, and the Brown government is unpopular, and saying: who do prefer to represent your country abroad?

Best of all for the SNP they have no responsibilities, internationally, so they're free to reflect popular opinion with no reprisals...

12

mesmiths,

fife 31/08/2008 00:52:37
I have,fundamentally,no respect for David Cairns, not even as the comedy character or clown he is setting out to be.
13

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

31/08/2008 00:59:14
7 8/10 Cats, 31/08/2008 00:06:29

What ARE you talking about?

Are you saying that the Scottish Government shouldn't have an opinion on matters that affect them?

Your case of cringe is so strong you'd rather see a neutered Scotland than simply find out what the Government of the day things.

What a sad wee man you are


14

Jimmy Le Pie,

31/08/2008 00:59:22
#12
Linda Fabiani,
Christina Graham,
Alex Neil,
Fergus Ewing,



15

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

31/08/2008 01:04:18
12 Ford Transit ©, 31/08/2008 00:30:36

Swinney
Maxwell
Hyslop
Fabiani
Mather
Crawford
Russell
Stevenson
Lochead
Robinson

And those are just the few that come to mind when I think of recent ministerial policy announcements recently.

All have performed very well indeed.

A wealth of talent with a good strong young generation coming through.

Can Labour of the Tories say the same?






16

Jimmy Le Pie,

31/08/2008 01:04:56
You can count???

Whatever next???

Talking sensibly???

Doubtful!!!
17

Jimmy Le Pie,

31/08/2008 01:06:16
#20 was for Transit van
18

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 01:08:21
16

I am saying that democracy and power resting with the people is the most important thing to Scotland.

If the SNP weren't cowards they should hold the referendum tomorrow, then have a all the powers they want legitimately.
19

Alan Reid,

NZ 31/08/2008 01:10:30
I far as I am concerned devolution is a process. I voted in 97 for parliament. But I am not happy with its limited powers; therefore I demand and expect the Scottish government to fight for more powers.

8/10: the reason the SN are doing so well is that people are beginning to wake up to the fact that our country could do so much better if we were independent. Are you quite happy seeing Scottish troops going off to die in a war that is illegal, and something like 80% of the Scottish people were against it? Also your personnel rants against Salmond are getting a little embarrassing, he’s fighting for Scotland unlike the numpties we’ve had in the past.
20

Jimmy Le Pie,

31/08/2008 01:11:44
Has our favourite Irish commentator and statistician left this site for pastures new??

I can't say I miss his inane drivel!
21

mesmiths,

fife 31/08/2008 01:14:53
FORD TRANSIT- And then there are our secret agents in other parties (chiefly your lot)- Westminster- Brown, Darling, Browne. Holyrood Alexander, McConnell, Bailey, McNeil, that one that got scelped in the east end of Glasgow, Stephens, Scott and the head honcho Lord George Foulkes
22

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

31/08/2008 01:15:29
22 2/10 Cats, 31/08/2008 01:08:21

But the manifesto which the people elected them on said that they would hold an election in 2010, therefore the people are getting what they asked for.

Scotland want become independent overnight, it's a process and having a voice on international affairs is important.

The Scottish Parliament has already spoken on a variety of issues outside it's Scotland Act defined 'competency', namely the Iraq War, Trident and the returning of monies due for Free Personal Care.

I don't understand your problem with what is proposed above.

Why shouldn't ANY Scottish Government not hold specific views on international matters, at the moment it is only a view, there are no powers to act.

The Scottish people generally want to hear their Government speak out against Trident and the use of nuclear weapons., I think they would be very happy for the Scottish Government to speak out in the name of peace and reconciliation on international issues.

We are already moving into the lead with respects to Sustainable & Green technologies.

Unionism is in danger of becoming a reactionary conservative force.

Voters will shun this, watch the result in america next month for evidence of the global sea change.





23

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 01:16:48
23 Alan

When you start asking rhetorical questions like am I happy when people die, are you saying you support paedophilia?

You are stupid. You just put words in other people's mouths rather than address the issue of Salmond's latest assault on democracy.
24

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

31/08/2008 01:17:06
25 mesmiths, fife 31/08/2008 01:14:5

LOL

Come in agent Foulkes, return to base (the lords) your mission has been successfulk
25

Alex Salmond's Briefcase Carrier,

@murderplanning 31/08/2008 01:23:18
Cats 14/26 your wishes has been granted and a squad's sent for you. They know who you are and where you live, but not for long.

Sorry chap.
26

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 31/08/2008 01:25:25
Scotland Office Minister David Cairns said: "Alex Salmond fundamentally has no respect for devolution.

THAT'S RICH.

IT'S DAVID CAIRNS WHO HAS NO RESPECT FOR DEVOLUTION INCLUDING LABOUR MSPs RESIDING IN HOLYROOD.

He has made that clear on several occasions, seeking media attention for ANYTHING he does not agree with, in spite of the fact that he has no say in Holyrood matters.
27

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

31/08/2008 01:28:03


The Scotland Office

The Last bastion of imperial overlordship.

London calling the colonies.

28

somerferg,

perth 31/08/2008 01:30:02

Well 8/10 cats or whatever your name is if you are the best the opposition can muster - (your comments appear to be little more than an opportunity for you to insult Alex Salmond and the SNP government) then things are alot worse than I thought for the monkeys (red, blue and whatever colour the fibdems are). Grow up.
29

Guga II,

Rockall 31/08/2008 01:50:41
Strange, isn't it? These sick little unionists, like Catspee, can't stand the fact that the Scottish government have every right to have a policy on everything and anything. In any event, it is better to get their policies sorted out in time for our independence.

As for that idiot Cairns at the so-called "Scotland Office", it is about time he realised that it, and he, are archaic and anachronistic dregs from the colonial past. He, and it, like the rest of the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party are heading down the drain.

30

Graeme Thomson,

Glasgow 31/08/2008 02:00:41
I don't see why this is such an issue to some people.

Why should our elected politicians be neutered in Scotland?

Just because they have no legislative jurisdiction to change UK foreign policy doesn't mean they are acting illegally by laying out their views.

It is perverse to expect our MSPs to stay silent on issues that affect their constituents.

If you don't like their views then don't vote for them.

It's not very complicated.




31

Team Scotland,

31/08/2008 02:01:15
Clever move. It will be difficult in the long term to keep an interested Scottish Government out of foreign affairs. They are as the UK government concede entitled to express the Scottish governments views and responding to queries falls under this category. They will also be able to argue that many international agreements will impinge at least in part on non reserved matters.

This is agitation but it is legitimate and precisely what I expect from those I elected. For a nationalist government not to pursue a nationalist agenda would be a dereliction of duty to their voters.

Those who are complaining should have listened to Tam Dalyell when he correctly described devolution as “a motorway without exit to an independent state”. Instead they went for “Snow off a Dyke”. Oh cruel is the snow.
32

Graeme Thomson,

Glasgow 31/08/2008 02:09:17
I was just wondering.

Are MPs allowed to speak about matters reserved to Holyrood?

Can David Cairns throw in his tuppence-worth about the proposed changes to the Council Tax muted by the Scottish Government?
33

2Right,

On Location 31/08/2008 02:39:46
Why not go the full hog Mr Salmond and make the Scottish Government answer all Issues of Injustice too, Like Lockerbie and Shirley McKie etc etc to name but a few who are screaming out for help

Well at least voice their opinions on the matters when asked to do so instead of shirking their duties to the Electorate who put them where they are today
34

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 31/08/2008 02:42:00
Just preparing for INDEPENDENCE boys and girls !!!!!!!!
35

Willie Macleod,

Wick 31/08/2008 02:49:49
39 Kent2 I have never doubted the intelligence and decency of the SNP government.
I disagree with them and that is my right.

We never got back to Great Drummers I remember saying GInger Baker.
36

Willie Macleod,

Wick 31/08/2008 03:13:24
#43 Kent It has to be Dave Gilmour Or Pete Townsend
37

Willie Macleod,

Wick 31/08/2008 03:24:23
# Kent Yes we do all want whats best for scotland. But we must do it as we are doing it with friendshiip and respect and decency.
All the Best Kent catch up with you later.
38

Colin Wilson,

31/08/2008 04:20:07
A Whitehall source said: "I don't know on what basis they can produce a Scottish Government view on these areas."

The least that the people of Scotland should expect from our government is that it stand up to the UK. That's the very reason we wanted one in the first place.
39

Willie Macleod,

Wick 31/08/2008 05:03:26
46 Kent We will meet again on this forum somewhere sometime Albums I have got 200 in the cupboard most of them are scratched and unplayable.
All the Best Willie
40

Robbie 2,

New Zealand 31/08/2008 06:24:28
3 8/10 Cats,
“ The last time Salmond wrote to foreign leaders he was ignored.”
Hi there cats - hope you are well.
Perhaps after 300 years of having being represented by Westminster and then the BBC - none of those foreign leaders knew where or what Scotland was!
The French President and most overseas politicians have been lead to believe that Scotland is just part of England and so ignored something they had learnt so little about. This is changing with an SNP government albeit slowly. Notice more about Scotland in the English press in the last year than in year before that.
41

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 31/08/2008 06:26:33
I wonder what their policy will be vis a vis Georgia/South Ossetia
42

Robbie 2,

New Zealand 31/08/2008 06:43:53
50 Mercutio, FALKIRK

Hopefully not as hypocritical as the ‘big-guys’ the UK, USA and Russia.
Bush complains of Russia invading a sovereign state and Milibrand of "Having Russia as a member of the G8 at a time when her troops are still on the sovereign soil of another country….”
Have they forgotten the invasion and occupation of Iraq?
Has the US forgotten its backing for the secession of Kosovo (legally was part of Serbia).
Have the Russian conveniently ignored Chehen desire for a separate sovereign state while endorsing the claims of South Ossetia?
If the SNP at this stage did make a comment it would be mostly likely more logical and less dishonest than the utterings so far from Westminster, Washington or Moscow - but the Scottish ‘journalists’ would malign and pour scorn on anything they say.
43

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 31/08/2008 07:09:48
#51 Surely you are not arguing that there is some moral equivalence between the Georgian democracy and genocidal regimes like Iraq and Serbia.
44

Finnz,

31/08/2008 07:33:06
Another superb move by Salmond to demonstrate to the Scottish electorate the policies of the SNP on a wide range of subjects. These are of course issues that would be raised when the referendum is proposed as it would be extremely important to know just how an independant Scotland would react to various international events and political alignments.
It is obvious that Westminsters policies are poles apart from Scotlands on a wide range of foreign issues but the refusal of Brown and co to even listen to their own constituents demonstrates their aloofness and personal agendas.
45

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 31/08/2008 07:44:26
This is made more ridiculous by the fact, however distasteful to SNP supporters that even when they do have power they were to scared to use it.

The SNP Executive had the power at the time to overturn the Parliaments vote on trams but in face of threats from all other parties they rubber stamped the trams.

Myself and a great many neighbours in the New Town who have never voted SNP before did so on basis theyt saw folly of the trams and made a manifesto pledge to stop them - then didn't for political expediency.

We are all going to pay for that cowardice.
46

The Tin Man,

31/08/2008 07:47:09
Goood for the SNP. I look forward to reading their latest defence policy - that's usually almost as good as Monty Python.
47

BIG EYE,

Paisley 31/08/2008 08:06:01
Only in Scotland could you get people who think their country should say nothing about foreign affairs at the same time as many of their citizens were being killed in foreign wars.

This is "normality" in the Union.

Independence can't come soon enough!
48

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 08:08:57
55 Tin man

Yes, I'm looking forward to that too. Alex Salmond and the SNP don't have the administrative skill to organise 1,000 police officers, how he would cope with an army is anyones guess.
49

Colin Wilson,

31/08/2008 08:11:42
Re Finnz (#53) : "These are of course issues that would be raised when the referendum is proposed as it would be extremely important to know just how an independant Scotland would react to various international events and political alignments."

Independent Scotland will be a democracy, and won't necessarily be governed by the SNP once the first general election has been held.
50

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 08:13:31
Does the UK government now have 2 shadow governments?

Next time the SNP pulls the reserved matter defence, they won't have a leg to stand on.
51

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 08:16:35
58 Colin Wilson

Salmond and the SNP will ignore the election result if it's not them. Parliamentary approval and the rule of law is irrelevant to Scotland's interests. Ony the SNP acting unilaterally can make any progress.

At least if you ask them or their cult followers.
52

tommy M,

31/08/2008 08:17:32
Brilliant! Well done SNP Government. Thank goodness we have a sensible, competent Government here in Scotland. The sooner we have independence from that shambles in Westminster the better.
53

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 08:38:33
63 MacGillicuddy

Afghans trained people who flew two planes into our allies civilian opulation in a major city at rush hour.

Does the SNP dissaprove of the war in Afghanistan? It's revealing to see you are so ill informed as to lump it together with Iraq.

I suppose with SNP politicians taking their families on holiday to terror training camps and giving £400,000 to extremist mulsims the SNP are making their foreign policy known.
54

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 08:42:15
Speaking of which. With a small army and neutral status in EVERYTHING. How many allies would a coward have?
55

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 08:44:29
What a waste of paper from the SNP government.

They have three positions on foreign affairs.

1. Matter for the European Union (The SNP are unionists.)

2. Neutral.

3. Parcel of rogues, feartie, [insert irrelevant vacuous rant]
56

donald,

glasgow 31/08/2008 08:47:27
Time to get out of Team GB's reserve team on the benches and into the playing field.
57

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 31/08/2008 08:49:47
#55 If you want to see what a realistic and up-to-date Scottish defence policy looks like, have a look at http://www.realmofscotland.com/defence/

You might find one or two other items on the site of interest too.

58

Robbie 2,

NZ 31/08/2008 08:55:13
52 Mercutio, FALKIRK 31/08/2008 07:09:48
“#51 Surely you are not arguing that there is some moral equivalence between the Georgian democracy and genocidal regimes like Iraq and Serbia.”
Just got back and just leaving again but:
No and it saddens me that you could interpret my posts as such but it does demonstrate what I said that whatever the SNP Government said would be maligned. A discussion on the former regimes in Serbia and Iraq could go on ad infinitum - both previous regimes use to be our good guys until they were not and we all believe our ‘ free press’ on how good they were and then how bad they were. My first point Mercuriio was the hypocrisy of the large powers who have supported corrupt regimes and then denounced them and the media goes along with this. My second point is that the press that you get your ’news’ from would castigate Alex Salmond no matter what he said. This is demonstrateably true. Check the Daily Records wording in its poll on AS’s Thatcher comment - an unbelievable deliberate mistruing of the truth.
59

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 31/08/2008 08:58:08
#67 donald

You're in a dream world. Do you really think an independent Scotland would have ANY influence or standing on the world stage? Do the governments of the USA, China or Russia even care what Ireland, Norway or a hundred other little countries think. They don't even care what the UK, France or Germany think. Jeez, I suspect most American or Chinese politicians wouldn't know where Estonia or Denmark ARE, let alone give two hoots what there thoughts on anything are. On the playing field? Nothing would change, we'd still just be spectators.
60

Mikey,

31/08/2008 09:00:51
64, you're a liar! AMERICANS trained people to fly the planes into the twin towers!

If you can't even get that right, what hope have you?

BTW, here's a quote from your idol;

"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country"
- Hermann Goering
61

Finnz,

31/08/2008 09:02:40
58 Colin Wilson

"Independent Scotland will be a democracy, and won't necessarily be governed by the SNP once the first general election has been held"

Read the article Colin. At present the Scottish Government is SNP. They are entitled to label their policies as Official Government Policies. If another party forms the Scottish Government then I'm sure their policies will be published as well. Of course, the present lot in opposition do not appear to have any policies at all thats not authorised by their masters in London.
62

Corrennie,

31/08/2008 09:04:24
## 72 ##

There is no such entity as the 'Scottish Government' despite their attempts to call themselves as such.
63

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 09:08:35
71 Mikey

Goering, eh? Maybe that is the SNP's mantra. An "Attack" on Scotland from Wesminster, those who want reserved matters are cringes and unpatriotic and not Scottish. Yes, I can see how your mind works now.

Are you really saying that Afgahnistan is innocent with regard to 9/11?
64

pehman,

sussex 31/08/2008 09:14:27

cairns has no mandate to speak for Holyrood


Yet he frequently shoots himself in the foot as he tells us that Holyrood has it all wrong
65

pehman,

sussex 31/08/2008 09:19:41

65 8/10 Cats,31/08/2008 08:42:15
Speaking of which. With a small army and neutral status in EVERYTHING. How many allies would a coward have?


Why not check out the countries that condem Switzerland or Sweeden
66

The Tin Man,

31/08/2008 09:22:07
As far as policy goes, why did the SNP vote with the Tories, in favour of bus deregulation in June? What happened to the SNP policy in favour of bus re-regulation?

I am hoping that pary policy is not something to be agreed, then bought and sold to the highest bidder...
67

The Tin Man,

31/08/2008 09:27:57
#68

Thanks for that, but that is not nearly as entertaining as the SNP defence policy.
68

Finnzz,

31/08/2008 09:30:27
73 Corrennie

Semantics my dear, semantics.

And seeing as the unionist rag printing the article calls it the 'Scottish Government' who am I to argue.

Spook, I don't read Catsicks comments anymore. Foul language never persuaded anyone, no matter how strong the arguement and is usually a sign of desperation.
69

The Tin Man,

31/08/2008 09:31:45
#80 Spook

Looks like the SNP site has been purged of any mention of the subject - they run a tight ship.
70

Andanotherthing,

31/08/2008 09:32:52
Scottish Government, What Scottish Government, there's no such thing. Just because they call it that doesn't make it so,

If the SNP party want to form policy, fine, but call it that. SNP policy.

Looks like they want to spend more time on party matters and not what the country pay them for.
71

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 31/08/2008 09:34:26
Why doesn't the UK government just note but ignore the Nationalists new policy?

By highlighting this matter they are only providing the SNP with the oxygen of even more publicity which is probably what the shrewd Salmond intended.

The vast majority of people in the UK were against the invasion of Iraq and, so what if the Scottish Government have different foreign policy views from that in London, as the involvement in Iraq also split the Labour Party and, ultimately, led to Tony Blair's exit!

72

Peter Curran,

Kirkliston 31/08/2008 09:37:46
was a devolved matter or not. I continue to support them in government because I know where they stand on these fundamentals. I want to continue to know where they stand on major issues, especially at a time when the world is becoming such an unstable place again, thanks to shadowy forces in American politics provoking confrontation between Russia and Georgia.

The blind panic of the UK government and the unionist parties when faced with Scottish politicians who insist on speaking the truth reveals the true poverty of the unionist position. Any attempt to muzzle our government should be firmly resisted by Scots who believe in our nation. We are now living in a world where the organising principle of major states, including the United Kingdom, is war, and where the first instinct of an ambitious - or desperate - leader is to initiate military conflict. Scotland must stand outside of this madness, and be a beacon of reason in world politics, a rallying point for human values.
73

Peter Curran,

Kirkliston 31/08/2008 09:38:26
I voted for the SNP based on their position on every matter that affected Scotland, whether it was a devolved matter or not. I continue to support them in government because I know where they stand on these fundamentals. I want to continue to know where they stand on major issues, especially at a time when the world is becoming such an unstable place again, thanks to shadowy forces in American politics provoking confrontation between Russia and Georgia.

The blind panic of the UK government and the unionist parties when faced with Scottish politicians who insist on speaking the truth reveals the true poverty of the unionist position. Any attempt to muzzle our government should be firmly resisted by Scots who believe in our nation. We are now living in a world where the organising principle of major states, including the United Kingdom, is war, and where the first instinct of an ambitious - or desperate - leader is to initiate military conflict. Scotland must stand outside of this madness, and be a beacon of reason in world politics, a rallying point for human values.
74

bill-alba,

fife 31/08/2008 09:52:26
tinman...I think the snp policy of having appropriate armed forces for a country our size is right..what would you have .. aircraft carriers etc so we could wage war against other countries??.
I once wrote to McConnell asking a question on a reserved issue and was told by him that it was a reserved matter..I wrote back saying that I knew it was a reserved matter but as it affected scotland surely he had a view! never got a response to that..I am pleased that if I ask a question of the Scottish government whether reserved or not that I will get an answer with their views, but I suppose you would prefer not to know.
75

yockel,

31/08/2008 09:52:52
If according to the British Government the Scottish Government does not represent a Scottish Government position then who does? If Scots are not being represented it seems we need a wee change in constitutional matters.
76

,

31/08/2008 09:56:57
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77

The Tin Man,

31/08/2008 09:59:29
#88 Spook

Ok, will do...
78

Guga II,

Rockall 31/08/2008 10:00:35
#88 Spook.

All these Unionists need to ask permission from London before they can do anything.
79

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 31/08/2008 10:02:34
Re 8/10 Cats (#60) : even if that really was what the SNP wanted (which I've never heard suggested before), there'd be no question at all of Scotland receiving international recognition without being constituted as a multi-party democracy.

Re Finnz (#72) : the point being?
80

The Tin Man,

31/08/2008 10:07:37
#96 Spook

I'll tell them that you sent me... Who's the Transport Minister?

81

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 31/08/2008 10:07:54
Well I would like to believe that if some other nutter like Blair or Brown, or worse still another Maggie I sunk the Belgrano Thatcher, got into Westmonster before Independance, that my countries government would speak up for any of my young lads going to get killed in some sort of illegal war.

Dont get me wrong, if it involved the defence of Scotland and the Scottish People, i would be among the first to take up arms. Of course I would prefer that we talk to our potential enemies to try mediate any disputes, before I took up arms.

As far as Russia is concerned, I dont doubt for a second that both the US and Westmonster managed this dispute. Putin is a business man ,the last thing he wants is a full scale war. As Sting sung"I hope that Russians Love Their Children Too" I have little doubt they do feel like any Scottish Mum or Dad.

I would like to see Scotland trading with the Russian People rather than shooting at each other. We have a lot in common. We both have Oil and England doesnt.
82

brownlie,

31/08/2008 10:14:18
94 The Spook

Come out of the closet, Spook. I've read all the admiring e-mails you sent Jackie urging her to go for the Labour leadership!!
83

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 31/08/2008 10:18:16
What a brilliant team they are as well. Doing Scotland Proud indeed.
84

danielrober,

31/08/2008 10:22:30
Could we have some claity on this policy movement. Not been a constitutional expert i'm actually confussed by this.

Is this an undemocratic action towards separation even before a referendum?

or

Is this a party policy by the SNP?

Though i was always under the impression that a political party could not use gvernment resources to formulate political party policy. May be so of the older posters would have details on the scandle for the 1980's Thatcher government. When government civil servents were used to formulate conservative party policy.

Some clarity would be benificial here.
85

brownlie,

31/08/2008 10:25:32
105 The Spook

Your manager was telling me you could not score in a barrow-load of unionists!

If Cathy is not appointed leader I will, reluctantly, be leaving the brilliant Labour party who have done so much for Scotland over the past decade.
86

brownlie,

31/08/2008 10:27:09
105 daniel

Not as "confussed" as we are by your postings.
87

brownlie,

31/08/2008 10:36:32
109 sm

Could you give us some idea how much the UK Government, despite having access to the entire civil service, spends annually on "spin-doctors" and "consultants" to promulage and promote their party's activities?
88

brownlie,

31/08/2008 10:38:17
114 should read "promulgate"
89

brownlie,

31/08/2008 10:38:18
114 should read "promulgate"
90

brownlie,

31/08/2008 10:42:16
117 The Spook

Thanks, Spooky, it's just that I was told it was £2.99 which I thought was a tad over the top!
91

The Tin Man,

31/08/2008 10:44:11
#117 Spook

Interesting... What is the figure for Holyrood?
92

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 31/08/2008 10:46:06
Have a look at the latest SNP Polling Figures, to see how many of the Invisible Three who are supposedly having an election for Leadership of Some Other Political Party.

A new poll by YouGov has recorded the biggest ever poll lead for the SNP with the party establishing a 19% lead over the Labour party in Scottish Parliament constituency voting intentions.

The poll, commissioned by the SNP, is the first since John Mason sensationally won the Glasgow East by-election and shows the SNP on 44% with Labour trailing on 25%. On the basis of these figures all three Labour leadership candidates would lose their seats to the SNP.

Commenting on the poll SNP Depute Leader and Deputy First Minister Ms Nicola Sturgeon MSP said:

"This is a sensational poll, which gives the SNP an all-time record lead of nearly twenty points over a Labour Party which is mired in division and disarray.

"Labour had better hurry up with their leadership election, because on the basis of these figures ALL THREE candidates would lose their seats to the SNP - just as we won Labour's third safest Westminster seat in Scotland in Glasgow East.

"Trust in and support for the SNP Government and our policies are riding high – while Labour are plunged into crisis at both Scottish and UK levels.

“The SNP government have taken decisive action to help families and business with rising costs – freezing the Council Tax, cutting business rates, starting the phased abolition of prescription charges, and restoring free education.

“The people are on the side of the Scottish Government because the SNP are on the side of the people."

ENDS

Notes:

YouGov poll, commissioned by the SNP, conducted 6-8 August, sample 1,028.

Scottish Parliament constituency vote [change from May 2007 in brackets]:

SNP: 44% [+11]
Labour: 25% [-7]
Lib Dem: 14% [-2]
Con: 13% [-4]
Other: 4% [+2]

Applying these figures to the Weber Shandwick Scotland Votes model, the SNP would win 58 of Scotl
93

brownlie,

31/08/2008 10:46:46
121 The Spook

That's the last time I pay any attention to pillow-talk.
94

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 31/08/2008 10:49:14
Applying these figures to the Weber Shandwick Scotland Votes model, the SNP would win 58 of Scotland's 73 Holyrood first-past-the-post seats.

SNP - 58 constituency seats (plus 37)
Labour - 8 constituency seats (minus 29)
LibDems - 6 constituency seats (minus 5)
Tories - 1 constituency seat (minus 3)

The SNP would gain the seats of all three Labour leadership contenders - Iain Gray, Andy Kerr and Cathy Jamieson.

The SNP would gain the following seats (with the three Labour leadership contenders' seats asterisked)

Aberdeen Central
Aberdeen South
Airdrie and Shotts
Ayr
Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross
* Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley (Cathy Jamieson)
Clydebank and Milngavie
Clydesdale
Coatbridge and Chryston
Cumbernauld and Kilsyth
Cunninghame South
Dumbarton
Dunfermline East
Dunfermline West
* East Kilbride (Andy Kerr)
* East Lothian (Iain Gray)
Edinburgh Central
Edinburgh North and Leith
Edinburgh Pentlands
Falkirk East
Galloway and Upper Nithsdale
Glasgow Anniesland
Glasgow Cathcart
Glasgow Kelvin
Glasgow Maryhill
Glasgow Shettleston
Greenock and Inverclyde
Hamilton North and Bellshill
Hamilton South
Kirkcaldy
Linlithgow
Midlothian
Paisley South
Ross, Skye and Inverness West
Strathkelvin and Bearsden
Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale
West Renfrewshire

95

danielrober,

31/08/2008 10:50:11
# 106 The Spook in Leith


I disagree with both these actions, as party politics should be paid for by the political parties, not from government funds. But thanks for you honest answer.
96

brownlie,

31/08/2008 10:56:29
If the unionists' Calman Review were to insists on more autonomy for the Government in Scotland surely it is common-sense to prepare for, and have a policy on, the increased powers.
97

brownlie,

31/08/2008 11:00:42
131 sm753

Quite right - if the article is not true Brown should sue the Mail for every penny the Labour Party have not got in the kitty.
98

Geoff,

sa 31/08/2008 11:16:47
128 Spook in Leith-in other words Nats-33%, Unionists 63%!!! :)

It is clear that Alex Salmond from a position of strength, is now using every opportunity to create conflict with Westminster aiming obviously to provoke a "slap down" reaction from the UK Parliament and hopefully thus produce a hostile reaction from the Scottish people along the lines of "Poor little Scotland being bullied by wicked Britnatz." Its a clever tactic with which the Labour Government will have to tread carefully in their response. Sadly for the Unionist cause they will probably c**k it up by reacting in an adversarial way. If I was GB PM I would say politely to the SNP that they are perfectly entitled to express opinions but should remember the terms of the Devolution settlement as it exists NOW not as they might like to see it. Labour are a dreadful millstone round the neck of the Unionist cause-the sooner they begone the better. AND the sooner the UK has a PROPER all embracing Constitutional Convention embracing all parties and all aspirations, followed by referenda, the better.

Three Cheers for the Red White and Blue!
99

Jung,

31/08/2008 11:21:36
" Anyone writing to the Edinburgh administration asking for ministers' views on such "reserved" matters as foreign affairs will now get an official reply, representing the views of the Scottish Government."

I expect NOTHING less from the Scottish Government!

If Westmonster does not like it then tough! Just what exactly can it do about it?
100

GM,

31/08/2008 11:21:38
Rabid Unionists -
=================

Only a few weeks ago were complaining that the SNP have not 'set out a stall' on how they would run the country in the event of independence


Rabid Unionists -
==================

Now that the SNP *have* decided to set out their stall on all policy matters they would be in control of in an independent scotland... and guess what, all the usual suspects (i.e. rabid unionists) complain that they are acting ultra vires!!





Ye honestly couldnae make it up!

The stench of rank hypocrisy from the 'Union at any cost' brigade
101

,

31/08/2008 11:22:48
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102

Geoff,

sa 31/08/2008 11:24:49
137..should have said"..RUDE words to express an opinion"(am I allowed to say RUDE?) :)
103

shivago8,

livingston 31/08/2008 11:25:15
Got to get ourselves ready for independence.

10 out of 10 Alex,nice to see some politicians with a bit of insight and drawing up plans for the future.

O flower of Scotland,lets show them in Glenrothes
104

,

31/08/2008 11:33:20
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105

Geoff,

sa 31/08/2008 11:33:41
138 Spook- Alex could never have hoped for better allies than GB and Labour-that much we can agree on wholeheartedly. Did you know there is a Rangers Supporters club in Dublin!!!! I love the Green and White strip-my father played in Green and White as a schoolboy international for N Ireland and loved the jersey even though he was a good Rangers man at heart!
I'll have u a bet on the Old Firm game nearer the day!
106

Geoff,

sa 31/08/2008 11:35:14
138 Spook- Alex could never have hoped for better allies than GB and Labour-that much we can agree on wholeheartedly. Did you know there is a Rangers Supporters club in Dublin!!!! I love the Green and White strip-my father played in Green and White as a schoolboy international for N Ireland and loved the jersey even though he was a good Rangers man at heart!
I'll have u a bet on the Old Firm game nearer the day!
107

,

31/08/2008 11:35:59
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108

,

31/08/2008 11:39:01
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109

kimba,

31/08/2008 11:46:00
This is a perfect example of Salmond arrogance,shut up you stupid gomper,GB decides foriegn policy.
110

Geoff,

sa 31/08/2008 11:46:52
146 Bird-stuck in the wilds of Africa so no wonder I dont know whats potting-thanks Bird-off to dust of the UJ and see if can find a channel on TV broadcasting the game!!
111

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 31/08/2008 11:48:09
144 Geoff sad

Nearer the day?

The match kicks off in 37 minutes!
112

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 31/08/2008 11:50:00
The Scottish Government is prepared to inform the Scottish electorate of its views on matters of international importance.

And what’s more, they are doing it deliberately!

What are David Cairns’ views of the freezing (reduction) of Council Tax and the introduction of LIT, (based upon the ability to pay)?

Oh, wait a minute; these matters are reserved………………to Holyrood!
113

,

31/08/2008 11:53:52
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114

boudica,

Glasgow 31/08/2008 11:53:59
The Natz Leaders once again prove that they Natz to the core as They are using the same tactics as that well known nazt in the 20th Century used once in Government they didnt go by the rules either and he wasnt representing us when he wrote to Mugabe or the Iranian Leadership ...he still hasnt even condemned Mugabe and his Election ...what was he taking notes for future reference ..They went after Wendys blood for £950 but when one of their own..you know the one the Rogue landlord takes his kids out for a day to teach them shoot a kalashnikoff ..he gets suspended for 2 mths ..but then all you natz wont see anything wrong in this as you didnt when he hand over £ 400.000 to one of his mates to run another corrupt org..that do nothing but line their own pockets for the good of intergration ..right more like disintergration ..Treacherous ..
115

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31/08/2008 11:56:20
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116

,

31/08/2008 12:02:20
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117

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 31/08/2008 12:20:06
There is a serious issue of the use (or abuse) of the deocratic process here. There are many thousands of people who voted for the SNP for the Holyrood elections who did not vote for them at the Westminster election. This means that on reserved matters they did not vote for the SNP. The Scottish govt is now using the votes of these people at Holyrood election to give them authority to draw up policy in areas where people voted in a different way. This is fundamentally undemocratic.
As a political party the SNP can obviously have any policy it wishes but as a govt it is abusing democracy if it has official policies that are not within its mandate.
118

kimba,

31/08/2008 12:31:08
152,154,155,161. Here we go again,the nats are throwing a tantrum! did we upset you guys,shame!
119

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 31/08/2008 12:34:34
From Mumbai to Whalsay it's the nature of people to invent and improve things. And little democractic nations might be where this is best funded and encouraged. The USA (or its financiers) aquired most of the world's top scientists post 1945. Who in their researches discovered that hydrocarbons and the associated pollutions need not be humanity's main energy driver. Or nuclear fission. Prototype machines were built to demonstrate this.

All this is classified information which the super-power mentality has kept restricted to military projects. I'd like the Scottish Government to take a bold stand on this. And draw support from our kinsfolk around the planet. It would cost mere £millions rather than billions to build this new technology.

When it's required to test live bombs, the UK aquires land and facilities for this. The Scottish Government should have these powers to positively engage in SAVING the planet.

Earth Project Online
120

kimba,

31/08/2008 12:50:56
Seems all the gompers have gone to the pub!
121

Robbierunciman,

Romney Marsh 31/08/2008 12:53:53
This also means that UK ministers can express their views on SNP policies on matters devolved to Scotland ?

Love to know what the SNP policy is on parties changing policy because of donantions from owners of bus groups?
122

Margaret L,

Edinburgh 31/08/2008 12:56:19
I think Salmond would do best when he wakes up every morning and repeats 50 times "No I am not God. Only 16% of the electorate voted for me". Then he wouldn't look such a prat all the time.
123

subrosa,

31/08/2008 12:57:06
# 153

You're a perfect example of either a bad English teacher or laziness as a pupil. I stopped reading at the 3rd line - not because your rants are nonsense, but because of your inability to punctuate even one sentence.
124

lulach mac gille coemgain,

31/08/2008 12:57:33
We must be prepared for when the millstone falls from our kneck !
125

Alan B,

31/08/2008 13:03:07
It seems completely logical for parties represented within the Scottish parliament to have political stances on matters reserved to Westminster. Particularly as the powers reserved at Westminster are up for discussion from all parties.

The parties that do not have devolved structures will probably not want to view in that way. But parties where they have particular scottish structures will.

Labour just do not seem to understand devolution.

Many in scotland did want to know whether scottish labour backed the iraq war. People really are not happy to see their political representatives not take a view on issues and hide their own views for the good of party unity.

Labour leaders should either have publicly backed the Iraq war or argued against it rather than hiding behind the fact the decision is ultimately devolved.

Labour also seem hypocritical, as London labour have interfered in devolved matters.

126

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 31/08/2008 13:11:54
#111 Ah, sm753, our political philosopher who has discovered the remarkable principle that the Westminster Parliament is so supreme that it exercises sovereignty over the people who elect it. How about identifying yourself? My name and my title are genuine, and are in the form in which I have been known in The Scotsman since 1973. You are obviously the appointed hatchet man with the assignment to discredit the politically ultra-dangerous Scotland-UN story at any price. (Or, since you are the new kid on the block here, would "teenage thug" be a better description?)

Of course the Labour Party and the unionist establishment in general are in a state of horror at the public revelation of how devolution and the restoration of the Scottish Parliament really came about. Now that hard evidence is starting to pile up that it was forced on the UK under threat of international sanctions, a whole lot of other things are starting to fall into place, like Labour's unceasing attempts to keep the unwanted Scottish legislature firmly tied to London's apron strings after they had been forced to establish it under duress. Research is still going on, and the rest will come out in due course. Just possess your soul in patience.

Incidentally, I am not the owner of the Realm of Scotland website, which in any case is not a one-man production and is independent of political parties. Nor am I am member of the SNP, although I thoroughly approve of the masterly performance of Alex Salmond's government to date in a difficult situation. You will no doubt have seen that the Scotland-UN section of the site has now been expanded and revised, and this will continue until the full story has been laid bare. The reference is:

http://www.realmofscotland.com/paper/

Other sections of the site (e.g. Defence or Independence) will probably also be of interest.

127

boudica,

Glasgow 31/08/2008 13:16:31
154 ...Your exactly who should be in the Natz ..Ignorant and stupid ..suits you
155, I think the Word idiot covers you ..
157.158,159..
Boudica was a Great Celtic Queen back when there were no borders on this Island and as for teaching me English lessons ..I`d advice you to teach the plonker that calls himself master as his linguistic skills along with your own are sorely lacking ..tell him the correct spelling is Choice not Joice ..
161 ..You and the others I have commented on shows sign of your neurotic inferiorty complex ..do you also suffer the Oedipus Rex Complex like your Grate Leader...haha..note spelling Grate as he does tend to grate on ecveryones nerves ..
128

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 31/08/2008 13:16:52
170 red Etin
Please read post 160 before you accuse someone else of being anaware of the parts of their anatomy.
169 Alan B
As I said in post 160 there is no argument over the SNP, as a party, having policies on reserved matters but it is an entirely different matter for a govt. to have policies if they do not have the electoral mandate for those policies and the Scottish govt does not have that as people have voted differently on these issues. That is why such a step is an abuse of democracy.
129

boudica,

31/08/2008 13:17:08
Oops....Everyones...
130

Alan B,

31/08/2008 13:35:58
#Ugly George

"there is no argument over the SNP, as a party, having policies on reserved matters but it is an entirely different matter for a govt. to have policies if they do not have the electoral mandate for those policies and the Scottish govt does not have that as people have voted differently on these issues. That is why such a step is an abuse of democracy."

Why?

I can understand if they were to try to block resevered matters from being implemented.

But i can see nothing wrong with the scottish governmenmt taking a view on things. In fact i would encourage it. I would expect the scottish government to lobby the uk government on different policy areas.

People can then judged the policies taken by these governmnets. I really do not like the sanitised party unity type of thing we have nowadays. It is bad for democracy.

Was it good for democracy that scottish labour who were reported to be privately against the iraq war not to have a view on such an important matter.

Nuclear weapon renewal is another big issue.

There are also many areas where issues have been fudged with devolution and bits of powers are here and bit there.

Parties should repect the right of the different parties to implement policies within its competencies but that does not mean these different parliaments cannot take different views.

131

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 13:45:01
Are the SNP going to hold a referendum? No. Why? Because they'd lose it.

Are they going to pretend they are independent. Yes. Why? Because they have no embarassment.

My 4 year old nephew is funny. I let him sit in the drivers seat of my car with the engine off and she asks "where whall I drive us?" "France?" "Ok" I say, let's drive to France and we normally arrive in a couple of minutes and have to "drive" back for ice cream.

My nephew is chuffed and boasts to his mum that he got to drive a car. A bit like Alex Salmond and the SNP, what foreign policy shall we do today daddy? World peace? "Ok, let's do world peace today children" "yay, I did world peace as a foreign policy mummy."

If only they could see how silly they look. Scotland wants grown ups who deliver what is in their manifesto and what they auithority to deliver.

Devolution is a not a new shadow government for the UK, these are real jobs and forms part of the UK government, they are not training positions or independence light. They require a high calibre of person with enough professionalism to do the job that was advertised.

132

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 31/08/2008 13:50:39
177 Alan B
It is a fundamental aspect of democracy. If the Scottish govt has a policy on, for example, a foreign affairs issue it gives the indication that it is speaking on behalf of the people of Scotland on this matter. But, in this matter, the people of Scotland have not voted for them and have voted differently so they have no right to presume to speak for them on this issue. That does not prevent them from expessing a view as a party. There is a fundamental difference between a political party and a govt. They are not the same thing.

as far as the "sanitised" aspect is concerned govts have to implement measures and therefore their has to be collective responsibility and accountability. Any member of the govt. who disagrees can resign but still be a member of the party and express views.
133

Alan B,

31/08/2008 13:54:08
#sm753

There are a few main issues:

1)has labour at westminster been involving itself in devolved matters. Cairns and Browne have commented on many devolved issues and in many way were more of a labour opposition to the snp in scotland when wendy was sidelined by the donation scandals.

Part of the problem for labour is not having a devolved structure themselves many mps do not want labour at holyrood to be seen as scottish labour. As such mps feel they should be playing a role in the labours policies for scottish parliament and hence will be interefering.

2) The other issue for labour mps interfere is due to the fudge over powers. Meaning few things are truely devolved and westminster government can veto in practise so much of what is generally seen as the sp powers.

3)All the major parties have now opened up the issue of what powers lie where. As such we will see the scottish parliament having a view.

4)I cannot see the scottish government having a view that say trident should not be replaced costing much money etc. It might be meaningless but that is up to the scottish people to choose parties and judge them for it. You do not want a sp party in government taking a specific policy. Fine you would not vote for that party. But if enough others do you view would not prevail.

5)the fudge of powers in most areas means for many many things the scottish government will infringe on westminster areas and vice versa. Think even something as silly as the while police is a devolved issue, things like the number of police officers in a police car is not.

Question: Given your view that one parliament should not commnet and take a view on policies that are the remit of others, would you then (as logic dictates) say the british government should not have an official policy and spend any money formulating that policy if it was the remit of the eu parliament? (personally i think you will change your tune quite fast when it comes to the powers within thes
134

Alan B,

31/08/2008 13:57:48
#sm753

"1974 – Labour has manifesto commitment to devolution. Gets elected. Tries to implement it but muffs it."

Weird definition of muffs it. Labour mps in power try to prevent devolution by inserting un-democratic clauses into the referendum.

A clause that means the dead are counted as rejecting devolution. A clause than means that with a 50% turnout you would need 80% of the vote to get devolution.

A clause that mean while the majority of people voted for devolution we were undemocractically refused it.

135

Alan B,

31/08/2008 14:08:07
#Ugly George

With regard to "sanitised".

1)few ministers now a days resign on principle. they could be do not. most are happy to sell their views for career advancement.
2)i was more meaning the whole idea that parties should not be divided and party conferences being so stage managed.

Look at how many labour mps voted for the 42days detention withour trial while being against the policy. It undermines the whole concept of parliamentary democracy. ie parliament is not holding the executive to account in the way it should at westminster. (sp is abit different becuase of PR, but we still have the problem of parties in sp voting along party lines far too often).

I do see the problem with the scottish government taking a view. While you think it indicates it is speaking for scotland, i think you overestimate the importance of that. A minority government will never be seen as speaking for the whole of scotland. Even with a coalition which commands a majority of the parliament it will just in my view be seen as speaking for that parliament.

There is an issue of who does speak for scotland, given labour does not have a federal structure like the lib dems.
136

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 14:12:57
183 Hoots

Just an typo innocent. Is not it a bit drunk for you to be so early? I don't know how you can decipher the posts in your state.

Can you promise me you won't start ranting about transexual arch-nemisis who can only be defeated by decoding their posts and researching pig "waste" on the internet. I was genuinely concerned for you yesterday when you started doing that.

You don't think the SNP are exactly like a child pretending to drive a car? It's just pretending and play-time.
137

8/10 Cats,

31/08/2008 14:27:31
187 Hoots

Well said. If your in a hole stop digging.

That really was quite a performance yesterday. I'd advise you to get a aeries of new log-ins, I can hardly bring myself to read your handle without doubling over like quasimodo and cringing in embarassment on your behalf.
138

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 31/08/2008 14:33:06
#180 No sm753, you are trying very hard but you will not succeed in shaking the facts that are now starting to emerge. So please stop all the colourful histrionics and personal sniping. I was there in person and I know what happened. The evidence that has been presented on the Realm of Scotland website is only the start, and will be expanded as new references come to light. I understand there are FOI applications pending, on the basis of what has been unearthed to date. Meantime, take another look at the very basic evidence that has already been presented. It would convince anyone who was not just determined not to be convinced:

http://www.realmofscotland.com/paper/View_Scotland-UN-Papers.aspx?id=10

139

Traquir , Alba,

31/08/2008 14:39:24
62 sm753

"It'll be stuff like offering Putin the benefit of some advice from the viewpoint of a "small nation". Ha. Ha."

Quite right Russia is hardly going to take advice
from a "small nation". The sooner that England as well
as Scotland realize they are both "small nations" then
the quicker "that curious vacuity, Britishness."
( see tinyurl.com/682pbm ) can be consigned to be
a historical footnote.

140

Traquir , Alba,

31/08/2008 14:54:47

So the colonial Scotland Office thought police
under Glasgow East loser Cairns do not believe
that Scotland's Government should be able to even
have an opinion on so called reserved matters, what
a surprise.

Perhaps ambassador Cairns does not realize
that the sovereignty of the Scottish people is
paramount and even his esteemed leader Maggie
Broon took an oath to that effect. Alex Salmond
and the Scottish Government would be remiss not
to be representing the rights of the
Scottish people first and foremost. The attitude
that a massively England dominated Union
and a London based Government knows better than
the people of Scotland how to handle 24
"reserved matters" is condescending in the extreme.

1989 Claim of Right

"We, gathered as the Scottish Constitutional Convention, do hereby acknowledge the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of Government best suited to their needs, and do hereby declare and pledge that in all our actions and deliberations their interests shall be paramount."
see - tinyurl.com/5hv4vk

The operative word would be PARAMOUNT, not shared
not subordinate to any other sovereignty be it
UK, English, British or whatever else
Unionistas would like to call it.

Interestingly the principles of the
Claim Of Right was supported by an
overwhelming 90% of Scottish MPs including
Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling.
All Labour MPs(except Tam) and all Liberal
Scottish MPs signed their name to this oath
to the Scottish nation.

Time for all Scots to put Scotland's interests
first and foremost, especially ahead of those
of England, Britain, London,...

Saor Alba
141

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31/08/2008 14:59:55
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31/08/2008 15:03:57
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143

boudica,

Glasgow 31/08/2008 15:15:48
Traquir ..shouldnt you be busy writing down the minutes of The SNP Foreign Policy meeting?..will Alec The Leader of the Scotland Didnae mind Thatchers Economy Policies Brigade otherwise known as The Scottish Natz party be aligning himself with any other Dictators in Scotlands interest ..that is something that the Natz have always done well isnt it The SNP the Dictators friend ..all in the name of Scotlands Interest ...
144

Allan(handofgod137),

31/08/2008 15:26:55
Time for wee eck and the Scottish numpty party to use the powers they have to improve Scotland, and incidentally keep all those broken election promises, before they start whining for more powers. I can’t help feeling that this continual harping on on non devolved matters is mealy to conceal how badly they are coping with the devolved matters. Still at least I get a good laugh at all the snp lapdogs jumping to their defence, employing the usual leftist tactics of insult and threats to cover up their lack of a coherent argument.
145

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 31/08/2008 15:42:26
184 Alan B
I am not disagreeing with you on lack of accountability in parliament but I think this is a separate issue. The fact is that govt (even if it is a minority one) represents its people. As such it has to take into account the proper aspects of democracy. It should not therefore formulate policy on an area outwith its mandate where people have voted in a different way. No matter how one looks at this whether one is a nationalist/unionist/agnostic or whatever this cannot possibly be in accordance with democracy. As I said previously it is perfectly acceptable for the party to have whatever policy it wishes.

Look at the issue of nuclear weapons. At the last UK General Election the vast majority of the people of Scotland voted for parties (Labour, Libdem, Tory) who are in favour of retaining them. Alec Salmond was voted in on an election to a govt where this area was not within the remit of that govt. He therefore has no right to write to others (as First Minister) on this issue as he has no democratic mandate to do so. He is perfecly frr to write to them as leader of the SNP - that is the crucial difference.
146

An Beal Bacht,

31/08/2008 16:01:19
My goodness Alex seems to have riled the riseable rabble. Unionists - yer tea's oot.
147

Traquir , Alba,

31/08/2008 16:07:38
194 sm753

You seem to be getting a tad upset, something
to hide perhaps ? In terms of your support of the
Labour Party's support for devolution here are
some interesting details for you :

. Labour have "supposedly" been supporters of
home rule since 1888.
. So it took them over 100 years to reestablish
the Scottish Parliament - which to me would
appear that they really don't mean what they
say or they are grossly incompetent in their
endeavours.
. "Rebel Labour MPs unite with the votes
of the opposition to pass the "40% rule"
which deprived Scotland of a Parliament
after the referendum.". This despite
the majority of Scots voting to restablish
a Scottish Parliament.

see - tinyurl.com/5z2mjs

Yep if you believe that Labour was really committed to
delivering Scottish devolution you are completely
delusional. They had more than enough time and
ample opportunity but failed every time until
1998. Certainly there was pressure from outside
the Labour Party including the SNP, the Scottish people
after 15 years of England imposed Conservative
Government and as highlighted in the papers
by Dr Wilkie "major problems" of democracy
in the UK (and 5 ex-Communist countries)
were found after an independent review by the COE and
indeed it was officially noted that the establishing
of the Scottish Parliament significantly mitigated
these highlighted "major problems". Had these
"major problems" not been rectified they exclusion
from the COE which is tantamount to sanctions would
have been imposed on any existing or prospective
member - this is how important the COE
regards the importance of true democracy.

No doubt there was additional pressure
from many other sources
to correct the egregious violations of
democratic rights by the imposed Thatcher
era on the Scots, - it would be unthinkable
that the world community would simply stand by,
especially when the treatment of Scotland
has bee
148

Traquir , Alba,

31/08/2008 16:08:05
200 :)
149

Traquir , Alba,

31/08/2008 16:09:15
199 cont.

No doubt there was additional pressure
from many other sources
to correct the egregious violations of
democratic rights by the imposed Thatcher
era on the Scots, - it would be unthinkable
that the world community would simply stand by,
especially when the treatment of Scotland
has been highlighted by Scotland-UN to the
highest levels. During the Thatcher era Scotland
had an extreme democratic deficit in line
with some of the ex-Communist countries trying
to join Europe - and indeed it is no coincidence
that it was 5 ex-communist countries and one
establish "democracy" the UK which was
cited for "major problems" of democracy.

The only conspiracy theory here is the one
you appear to have fallen for that the Labour
Party is looking after Scotland's interests
as a major priority. Have you seen what
they have done to Scotland for the last
few decades and how incapable they
were for a century to deliver devolution
to Scotland despite their purported believe
in their hearts of Scotland sovereignty being
paramount. Power in Westminster and the UK
is and always has been their paramount concern.
If you think that that Westminster Government
can be trusted to look after Scotland's
best interests first and foremost you have
fallen for the oldest conspiracy theory in the books.

Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi 's nach fhaic

P.S. You do know that Unionistas for decades
dismissed the contents of the McCrone
report as conspiracy theory. Even I would
have dismissed the contents of that paper
as conspiracy had they not been released.
see - tinyurl.com/6ctfjd

Another Unionista dismissed "conspiracy theory"
is that the British Government spied on the SNP.
Again not conspiracy but exposed as fact that
the British Government did indeed spy and
infiltrate the SNP.

see - tinyurl.com/6qdltd

If you think the British Government can be trusted,
especially when it comes to Scotland,
you truly are naive beyond belief.
150

Traquir , Alba,

31/08/2008 16:36:53
174 boudica,Glasgow

"Boudica was a Great Celtic Queen back when there were no borders on this Island"

I see that your ignorance of history is only
surpassed by the ignorance of your sycophantic
Unionsta drivel. Your jingoistic view
that Britain has been a single nation
since the dawn of time is purile
claptrap. For your continuing education :

I refer for your education the History
of Scotland, 1582, George Buchanan -

"There remains another observation to be made on the
name Britain,and that is among foreign writers it is
applied to the whole island. Likewise
the Brettons and the English, who
have written on British affairs sometimes
agree with these foreigners"

"The most ancient name of the island is believed to be
Albion, or as Aristotle, or rather Theophrastus
in his treatise, entitled De Mundo (of the world) styles it Albium"

"what they call Britain, is that part
of the island only which
was contained within the wall of Severus". .

see - tinyurl.com/5gl36j

"Lectures on the history of England" 1863

"But the Britons had other enemies besides the Romans. They were frequently attacked by the inhabitants of Scotland, called Picts and Scots, and to defend themselves from these internal foes, they were glad to avail themselves of the help of the Romans."

see - tinyurl.com/646xnn

The Story of the English 1898

"Eighty thousand Britons died on that field of battle, and that Boadicea klled herself and her children."

see - tinyurl.com/5qx6af

I am sure your futile defence of this rotting Union
will be as successful as the endeavours
of the ultimate loser who is
your name sake. However I implore you not to take
it out on your children.

Slàinte mhor

P.S. Also thanks for your suggestion
"Traquir ..shouldnt you be busy writing down the minutes of The SNP Foreign Policy meeting".
I am sure it will be much more enlightening and
sensible than the British foreign policy of being
Bush's poodle and eagerly enga
151

Traquir , Alba,

31/08/2008 16:50:06

202 sm753,

"Traquir

""major problems" of democracy
in the UK (and 5 ex-Communist countries)
were found after an independent review by the COE and
indeed it was officially noted that the establishing
of the Scottish Parliament significantly mitigated
these highlighted "major problems". "

Oh really?

Documents and references please.

"Dr" "Wilkie" hasn't been able to provide them. Can you?"

Well actually I just followed the link that Dr Wilkie
provided recently and again today and followed
the hyper links of the document supporting the claims.
I assume you do know how to follow hyperlinks
and read documents ? In the case of the "major problems" I mentioned the specific link is

see - tinyurl.com/5cygh7

I would also point out that I have
read many of Dr Wilkies
posts in the past and his knowledge of Scottish
history is something I have found to be very
insightful, invariably factual and very educational.
He is clearly an expert on many aspects of
Scottish affairs both current and historic,
which is in stunning contrast to your
perpetual griping and the lack of educational
or knowledgeable contents in your posts.

Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi 's nach fhaic


152

Alan B,

31/08/2008 16:51:50
#Ugly George

I do not know how you can say a devolved parliament and/or the executive of that parliament taking a view on any matter is undemocratic.

Having a view does not in any way mean they can change policy in areas that are not in their remit. But means they can lobby for a policy to be changed. I just cannot see anything wrong with.

Take nuclear weapons replacement. Scottish government would simply be saying, that they do not support nuclear weapons and do not feel it is in scotlands interests. They would have no power what so ever to change policy. But I cannot see how having a view and effectively lobbying for a change of policy is undemocratic.

The way I see it is better to have that debate. I see nothing wrong with different parliaments taking a different view and arguing such (NB while part of the UK I am not fundamentally against nuclear weapons in principle).

153

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 31/08/2008 17:03:13
#9 Gee, no sh!t Sherlock! Give the man a coconut!!
154

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 31/08/2008 17:03:48
#202 You are dissembling, sm753. From your previous posts it is obvious that you have read the initial documentation of the Scotland-UN papers, in which the references are clearly set out, as you are perfectly well aware:

CoE Resolution 58 of 5 June 1997 ... “Considers that major problems of local democracy exist in the following countries: Croatia, Bulgaria, Latvia, Moldova, Ukraine and the United Kingdom”.?? So five former Communist countries and one existing member state were highlighted as having major problems in meeting standards of democracy. The detailed monitoring reports have not yet been released by the UK government despite an official request in the House of Commons on 18 January 1999 (ref#16):

Mr.Canavan:

“To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will publish the results of the examination of the United Kingdom's democratic and governmental structures which was carried out by the Council of Europe from June 1996 onwards.”

Mr. Tony Lloyd:

“The Secretary General's overview of the functioning and protection of democratic institutions in all Council of Europe member states remains before the Committee of Ministers, which will resume its discussions at its next monitoring meeting in March 1999. The conclusions of the Committee of Ministers will be made public when available."

As regards the second source reference:

"Article 8 of the Council of Europe's Statute (ref #19) states “Any member of the Council of Europe which has seriously violated Article 3 may be suspended from its rights of representation and requested by the Committee of Ministers to withdraw under Article 7. If such member does not comply with this request, the Committee may decide that it has ceased to be a member of the Council as from such date as the Committee may determine.”

In plain language, it would be expelled from the Council of Europe. In 1998, after the restoration of Scotland’s Parliament had been assured, notwithstan
155

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 31/08/2008 17:07:26
In plain language, it would be expelled from the Council of Europe. In 1998, after the restoration of Scotland’s Parliament had been assured, notwithstanding the resistance of the Labour leadership ("a damnable nuisance", in Tony Blair's words), the Council of Europe issued “Recommendation 49 (1998)1 on the situation of local and regional democracy in the United Kingdom” (ref#17). The recommendation states, inter alia:

“Welcoming the fact that the United Kingdom signed the European Charter of Local Self-Government [ETS 122] on 3 June 1997”

“Welcoming the fact that the British Government has taken serious steps towards devolution, in particular concerning the establishment of a Scottish Parliament with large competences, including in the legislative field”

So, after much dragging of feet, and as one of the last member states to do so, under considerable pressure, the UK eventually signed the European Charter of Local Self-Government whilst in parallel having been forced to give Scotland devolved government. Had devolution not been granted, not only would the UK not have been in a position to sign and uphold the European Charter of Local Self-Government, but it was also on the verge of being expelled from the Council of Europe for serious non-compliance with basic democratic principles – a step that would have had dire and widespread international consequences. ?

That is the real reason that the Scottish Parliament was restored rather than its having been some form of largesse from the Labour Party."

SM753 was perfectly well aware of the above references, having read them on the Scotland-UN site, and still persisted in alleging that the statements could not be backed up. Since there is clearly no point in discussion with someone with a political axe to grind who is not interested in objective fact, I do not propose to continue with this exchange.

156

Traquir , Alba,

31/08/2008 17:09:20
Oops how rude my post #208 to 174 boudica,Glasgow
was cut short.

cont.

P.S. Also thanks for your suggestion
"Traquir ..shouldnt you be busy writing down the minutes of The SNP Foreign Policy meeting".
I am sure it will be much more enlightening and
sensible than the British foreign policy of being
Bush's poodle and eagerly engaging in illegal
and immoral wars. Perhaps you and Westminster
should join me and take notes and help
contribute positively to suggestions on
foreign policy which will be attuned to Scotland's
best needs rather than to some has been
ex-empire increasingly sad attempts to prance
on the world stage.
157

kimba,

31/08/2008 17:23:38
And there speaks a guy in utter desperation,and with only 16% of the electorate voting for the nats he needs to be.
Traqair,the decent people of Scotland will not be bullied by you or your arrogant leader!
158

The Tin Man,

31/08/2008 17:26:28
I hope that the SNP is going to reveal it's tax policy, as per the story in the Business section?
159

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31/08/2008 17:45:57
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160

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 31/08/2008 17:58:19
-- A minority government will never be seen as speaking for the whole of Scotland.

Neither would a majority government. Listening to the whole of Scotland is more the remit. Politics is action, therefore politics is compromise. Governments have to listen to those who don't like them or what they stand for. Everyman could sit in his own thinking pod and contribute to a new age of enlightenment. In practice democratic governments (the size of Scotland) require free associations of citizens eg farmers, fishermen, trade unions, professional bodies to agree coherent policies and present them to parliamentarians. And dissident views with it.

I'd like the Scottish Government to indicate we're open for Science. That is we employ scientists to use their minds and speak it too. This is not the case once they get entrapped and gagged in the corporate-military machine. I think we need new institutions beyond our urban Universities.
161

Traquir , Alba,

31/08/2008 17:58:48
216 kimba

Good day Kimba I see you Nazi racist bile is alive
and well as normal, but I guess I can't expect anything
more that a member of the bigoted English Democrat
party.

Here is a little
education for most people who have never heard
of the uber-fringe group that is the
English Democrats :

. The English Democrats London Mayoral candidate
was Matt O’Connor.
. Matt O'Connor drops out of the race at
last minute as he
"accuses English Democrats of BNP link
after quitting race for Mayor"
"O’Connor says he had uncovered a ‘menacing
far-right underbelly’ to the party at the
11th hour. "
see - tinyurl.com/5w7ond
. There slogan is "Putting England First" -
hmm - not "Putting Britain First" ?
. There astounding level of grass level
support is demonstrated by
"They recently polled an astonishing
eight votes in a by-election - two
less than signed the nomination paper."
see - tinyurl.com/66cuxz
. The loonies want to Annex Part of Wales For England -
see - tinyurl.com/5j6s6e
. Published a racist Scottish Poster for London Mayor
election
see - tinyurl.com/5fqxze

You truly are the most sad, odious
and pathetic troll on
this site, but you perform a great service for the
SNP as a double agent so keep up the good work :)

Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi 's nach fhaic

P.S. GOMPER!I see that Kimba has been using the dictionary again which is at least showing a propensity to learning which must be a good sign

Speaking of Gomper
I understand that from previous exchanges that
AM2 believes Kimba to be gomperlicious, but apparently
has not actually had a chance to meet yet. He may
want to beware :)

see - tinyurl.com/yjyyqw
162

An Beal Bacht,

31/08/2008 18:05:23
Kimba et. al. should understand that the Scottish Government has to develop policies on these "retained" matters in preparation for full independence. This is only right and prudent. We expect no less from our Government in Scotland.
163

GM,

31/08/2008 18:26:44
@Kimba

I see you have lost the argument again, simply down to the application of Godwin's Law.
164

Team Scotland,

, FC UK No! - 31/08/2008 19:12:33
174 boudica,
“Boudica was a Great Celtic Queen back when there were no borders on this Island.”

That is not accurate. The cultures of northern Britain and Southern Britain were distinct. Bronze and Iron age Northern Britain and Ireland is seen as a distinct culture to that of Southern Britain. Southern Britain had a similar social structure to Gaul. This was their undoing when facing Roman expansion. Like Gaul Southern Britain was organised around central places (Oppida) . This meant the Romans simply had to take the central places and the surrounding territory fell by default. This was not the case in the north. Society was more localised, there were few central places and those that did exist were small carrying little influence beyond their boundaries. This was a radically different culture and for the Romans this meant fighting each autonomous settlement one by one. In spite of a series of separate invasions they could not take the north as any defeated community would simply reassert itself as the Romans tried to take other areas.

The tribes of the North formed a loose confederacy that unlike the Britons to the South ultimately defeated the Romans. This lead to Roman retrenchment and the construction of Hadrian’s Wall in 122AD. Boudica’s defeat and its aftermath galvanised the northern Britons. Indeed this played a major part in emergence of Scotland as a nation. This selection from the earliest Scottish nationalist speech warning against the appeasement of the southern Britons says it all.

“But there are no tribes beyond us, nothing indeed but waves and rocks, and the yet more terrible Romans, from whose oppression escape is vainly sought by obedience and submission. Robbers of the world, having by their universal plunder exhausted the land, they rifle the deep. If the enemy be rich, they are rapacious; if he be poor, they lust for dominion; neither the east nor the west has been able to satisfy them. Alone among men they covet with equal eager
165

Team Scotland,

31/08/2008 19:13:43
. . . cont

“But there are no tribes beyond us, nothing indeed but waves and rocks, and the yet more terrible Romans, from whose oppression escape is vainly sought by obedience and submission. Robbers of the world, having by their universal plunder exhausted the land, they rifle the deep. If the enemy be rich, they are rapacious; if he be poor, they lust for dominion; neither the east nor the west has been able to satisfy them. Alone among men they covet with equal eagerness poverty and riches. To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace.”
Galgacus Chief of the Caledonian Confederacy AD 83
166

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31/08/2008 19:17:45
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31/08/2008 19:43:20
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Media 1,

cape town 31/08/2008 20:15:11
I do wish the SNP would seek political assistance from people who understand politics. Scotland is at the mercy of some fanatical sub standard leaders at the moment.
Partnerships are so important, they open up more doors, they offer more stability, they ensure that when times are tough there is always a shoulder to lean on, they are more powerful than the single approach and they offer so much more.
Salmond is stuck in time, he re-lives the lives of Wallace and Bruce everyday and probably gets a lump in his throat when he watches Braveheart. Modern Scotland is a major player at the union table, so why go backwards?
California is the 5th biggest economy on the planet. Think about that. One state with an economy larger than most countries, happily involved in the American union...Can you imagine Californians rallying for independence from the United States of America? No you cant, because such behaviour would be considered mad. Scotland is not part of the union because it benefits Wales, N Ireland and England. Scotland is part of the union because it benefits Scotland.
169

ThomasP,

31/08/2008 20:31:12
It all sounds reasonable to me.

The SNP want Independence and the public in Scotland want to know the SNP's stance on reserved matters.

The only losers are Westminister once the Scottish public realise that the SNP can do things better.
170

SlyFifer,

Somewhere west of Scotland 31/08/2008 21:08:56
What the SNP are doing is prefectly correct especially in the run up to a future referendum. Personally, I would have liked them to have been presenting an alternate view since day 1 of the Parliament. Never mind, they are doing it now. To have a view and a costed plan for each aspect of an independent government for Scotland is simple common sense. Should that in any way vary or oppose the view of the UK government so what !. Scots have long held views at variance to that of the UK as a whole but their views have been subjugated by the overwhelming strength of the UK or, simply ignored altogether. There are examples of this way too numerous to mention. Nevertheless, give the SNP their due. They are setting about it now. Be aware that there are others who share the goal on Independence who are not members of the SNP and who also are preparing views for Scotland across the complete spectrum of departmental activity that an Independent Scotland would have jurisdiction over. Come the time of the referendum there should be at least one alternative independent view of where Scotland's future lays. Right now there is only the SNP to choose from. Watch this space.
171

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 31/08/2008 21:51:41
Britain's finest hour is commonly regarded as during the WW2 years. When everybody was mobilised to the defence of the Nation. Like my friend Hamish who volunteered for bomb-disposal (so as a laddie fae Farfar could see the sights of London) and survived to become a professional artist and jazz-drummer and live in Dundee. Does anyone not agree that we need a scottish government for national reconstruction?

Therefore what the Scottish Government is doing to this purpose is of more import than merely what its opinion is. What it's allowed or devolved to do is improve the shambolic regional administration which it inherited. However the forces of interia, the establishment, the status quo are stacked against this.

When it was necessary to extract North Sea Oil to keep the UK creaking, land was designated to build huge concrete and steel structures and the associated pipework. Nor did wildlife disappear from the scenery. Yet land for housing is not allowed? Or industry.

This Universe must have universal principles aka integrity or it wouldn't hold together at all. As we better understand these , new technology can and has been built to usefully extract this to power electrical devices (as the solar system itself may be). Of course, Goverments we think we've elected, are told to keep this secret for weaponising space, anti-gravity machines, whatever.

The frontiers of science don't necessarly require very expensive super-energised plasma or super-cooling to learn new things or engineer from it. Plain water always reveals new mysteries and in understanding resonant Universe its energies might power vehicles as onced they turned mills.
172

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 31/08/2008 22:27:39
heidnote 1

Over the past 17 years, Dr. Steven Greer and his team have extensively researched the most promising inventors and technologies available on the planet today. They have traveled the globe investigating scores of inventors, and witnessing an exhaustive range of technologies from the impossible to the miraculous. From this painstaking work they have narrowed their scope to a handful of the most brilliant inventors and the most promising technologies. Heretofore, these inventors have been valiantly struggling forward to bring earth-saving technologies out to the world. Usually, these committed and intrepid pioneers are operating with:

* Low budgets
* Very limited equipment in their personal shops
* Little or no access to other brilliant people to spur their thinking
* Frequent strong skepticism and outright ridicule

The mission of the Breakthrough Campaign is to bring the very best inventors in the world of sustainable, non-polluting, "free" energy together under one roof to achieve a very specific objective. Our ultimate goal is to produce an Energy Generating System for the home or business, which will forever transform the current energy paradigm. The charter for our inventor team is to create a free energy generator for the global general public that frees us from dependence on costly, limited, and polluting fossil fuels.
173

Ewen Miler,

Wilts 31/08/2008 22:42:40
What will the SNP do when Foreign Policy is determined in Brussels - part of the proposal of the EU Constitution? An interesting conundrum for a party keen on the EU, yet wants "independance".

Do the SNP want to be in NATO? If so what financial contribution will they make to its structure?

With Scotland being independant, what will happen to the likes of Lossiemouth and Kinloss? There will be a lot of pressure on the "English" Government to move its forces South of the border - doesn't make much sense having your forces in a foreign country, when they can be based at home and help the "national" economy. Also where will Scottish forces be trained - all training establishments are in England or Wales.

As all RN subs are nuclear powered, they'll all move to Devonport, with the SNP's no-nuc and also the "English" Government will be able to keep both Portsmouth and Devonport open.

Net effect of independance: thousands of lost Defence related jobs. How will this be mitigated?
174

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 31/08/2008 22:48:18
heidnote 2

* Hydroxy Gas Energy Systems
* Thermal Exchange motors


The Orion Project has launched a campaign to bring the brightest inventors on the planet together, under one roof, to collaborate with one another to develop the first consumer-friendly, non-polluting, sustainable free energy generator. To achieve this, our goal is to raise $3 Million. This will allow us to:

* Lease an adequate, well-equipped research facility
* Bring a core group of the most brilliant inventors together under one roof
* Support them with a full-time skilled and available technical staff
* Provide professional project management to coordinate and support activities
* Align everyone toward the attainment of this single objective
* Provide 12-18 months of intensive activity to produce the desired result

So much has already been achieved by these inventors operating independently under the most adverse conditions. Bringing them together, with full support, clear direction, and aligned effort will certainly produce the Breakthrough humanity so sorely needs.
175

ThomasP,

31/08/2008 22:59:01
#239

The Conservatives and the Labour Party are Pro-European. It does not matter where our Government is based, at Westminister or Edinburgh Scotland and the whole of the United Kingdom will slowly be merged into what could a United States of European in 20 years time.

The difference to Scotlands Independence in Europe stance would be that Scotland can finally debate for change that helps Scotland, right now we simply face almost no representation and we do suffer from it.

The European Union is the future. Scotland has to take advantage of it in every possible way.

"Do the SNP want to be in NATO? If so what financial contribution will they make to its structure?"

The SNP want to work with NATO but not become a member. The other parties in Scotland no doubt will try and make us a member though if they follow their London Parties line. A European Army may well be the future though since its being considered now.

"There will be a lot of pressure on the "English" Government to move its forces South of the border - doesn't make much sense having your forces in a foreign country."

Why not? There are soldiers in Germany for example. In what way are they English forces anyway? Scotland provides quite a high number of soldiers into the military, surely these soldiers will choose to move back to their home country and serve Scotland?
176

ThomasP,

31/08/2008 23:01:27
#239

"Also where will Scottish forces be trained - all training establishments are in England or Wales."

I guess when the English move south as you say we will have enough barracks space to be converted into proper army training barracks.

"Net effect of independance: thousands of lost Defence related jobs. How will this be mitigated?"

Could you be more clear on what type of defence jobs will be lost? It's easier to say that defence jobs will be lost but I am sure you have nothing specific in mind.
177

brownlie,

31/08/2008 23:01:58
239 Ewen Miller

Are you assuming that the forces belong to the English Government?

Are you assuming that the only service training bases are in England/Wales?

In actual fact the UK Government is privatising military training. Strangely enough one of the companies that will benefit is EDF who employ Gordon Brown's brother.

The cost of the privatisation has risen from £12 billion to £13 billion.

This rise has been "spun" by the government into an announcement that an extra billion has been invested in military training.
178

ThomasP,

31/08/2008 23:33:44
#245

Basic Training is done at Catterick or Harrogate depending on your age.

Depending on your type of employment within the army you could be based anywhere in the UK or abroad for training.

I will be shot off to Germany to complete my training.
179

ThomasP,

31/08/2008 23:35:18
#245

"In actual fact the UK Government is privatising military training."

All the more reason for Scottish Independence. Privating the military is not really good for the military.

Even gaurd duty at Army Barracks now are civy controlled.
180

ThomasP,

31/08/2008 23:44:49
Col. Blimp­IV*.

Theres money to be made when armies are using your facilities for training.

;-)
181

boudica,

Glasgow 01/09/2008 09:20:48
199..Traquir
"Labour have "supposedly" been supporters of
home rule since 1888.
. So it took them over 100 years to reestablish
the Scottish Parliament"
Once again a Natz with a skewed view as the Labour party didnt even have a majority Goverment up until 45/51 and as they had just finished fighting a War against another bunch of Natz the Majority of Scottish people werent even interested in or trusted anything connected to any Nationalistic Cause as they had seen and felt what that twisted tainted Political beleif could do to a people and a nation they wanted nothing to do with it and a Devolved Government or Leaving the Union was not of any interest to them ..and rightly so ..as we have seen how Salmond will stand by any Nationlist cause ..even the Serbs when they were on the rampage ..what was he said when the Government decided to help on .." Unpardonable Folly " and how he stays silent on Mugabe or Iran ..he wrote to them for support and has not critised anyone of these governments ..Why ? .....and you think this is acceptable do you and in Scotland interest ..like any national cause ..the Interest of the People is not of interest them ..that is the last thing on their Agenda as like every Nationlist ..They know what is best for the People.... Not
182

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 01/09/2008 12:01:10
It is wrong to suggest because people voted in favour of Labour's devolution plans they don't want more powers for their parliament. In fact the Convention for Devolution (which excluded independence) wanted more powers than were subsequently provided, specifically over Scottish broadcasting.

Labour in London decided what should be in the devolution bill and what should be left out. They represent themselves, no-one else.

Personally I want the Scottish Government to represent Scotland internationally and I want them to have complete control over defence policy. I voted for devolution on the basis that half a loaf was better than none but I still favour the full powers of independence and support any moves towards giving Scots more powers.

Labour have no ambition for Scotland that is why they are dropping fast in the opinion polls. The Lib Dems and Tories are no better.
183

Fairfax,

01/09/2008 12:41:09
Yok Finney (238): "Dr. Steven Greer and his team have extensively researched the most promising inventors and technologies available on the planet today."

It's this Steven Greer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_M._Greer

Dr Greer has rediscovered an old sustainable profit model: stupidity is a renewable resource!
184

Highland Mighty©,

01/09/2008 17:21:17
"We, the SNP, will make a note of everything that annoys voters now.....and 'promise' to do the exact opposite."
185

Fairfax,

01/09/2008 17:41:53
Hawkeye (254): "The Iceni were constantly at war with the other Celtic tribes of England, which was not of course England at the time but a bunch of kingdoms vying for power who later fell under Roman occupation."

The Iceni were, at the time of Boudica's rebellion, a client kingdom of the Roman state. Boudica's revolt against Roman rule began some 20 years after the Roman occupation -- they were certainly not "constantly at war" before the revolt.

"The Romans in fact built a wall along the border for various reasons."

In fact it was not built along the border, but to divide the Kingdom of Brigantia.

186

Nevsky,

Moscow 01/09/2008 18:06:09
Hawkeye:

England has been conquered by everyone who wanted to conquer it. The Norman conquests were the best thing that happened to the English, brought some law and order to the land, supplanted wholesale their aristocracy and gave them all a piece of land to keep a pig and chicken.

187

Nevsky,

Moscow 01/09/2008 18:07:33
God bless the French..and Germans and Danes and Celts and everyone else who has had a historical part in cicvilising the poor downtrodden English.
188

Fairfax,

01/09/2008 21:24:25
Hawkeye (259): "The Celtic tribes in England were enemies who were constantly at loggerheads with each other prior to the Roman invasion. "

Some were; some weren't. Some weren't Celtic in any case.

"One of the reasons the Romans conquered them so easily was because they were not a united force lke the Picts."

The Romans were extremely effective against unified enemies also: the Carthaginians, the Antiochene Syrians, the Egyptians, the Gauls, to name but a few. The primary reason the Romans stopped expansion was not effetive resistance, but economics: why devote troops and logistics to conquer the poor agricultural land of Scotland?

"The wall was mainly built to protect pre-England from the powerful kingdom of the Picts in pre-Scotland."

It had several purposes, one of which was protection from raids from the north. Try, for example, the standard history "Hadrian's Wall", by Breeze and Dobson (Penguin) to learn precisely why this is an oversimplification.

"The Brigantes were in the north and midlands of England, not so far north as Hadrian's wall."

This is simply false. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigantes

to learn more.
189

Royster,

02/09/2008 07:51:58
This is great news. It means the UK government can start to interfere with domestic Scottish politics again resulting in.. I hope... the abolition of Holyrood. Devolution isn't working.
190

Hugo of Garven,

03/09/2008 18:42:25
#261 Royster,

Are you happy these outsiders are interfering with our Government?


 

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