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SNP threatens supermarkets with minimum drink prices



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Published Date:
23 March 2008
JUSTICE Secretary Kenny MacAskill has declared war on the UK's leading supermarkets, warning he will impose minimum prices on alcohol if stores continue to offer cut-price deals.
In an outspoken attack on leading stores such as Asda, Tesco and Sainsbury's, MacAskill accused them of "playing games" and seeking to "evade their responsibilities".

MacAskill is putting the finishing touches to a consultation paper which will recommend banning two-for-one deals and buy-one-get-one-free offers on alcohol.

But Scotland on Sunday can reveal the industry has warned the minister that if the bans are imposed, the supermarkets and drink suppliers will respond by simply lowering their prices for all drink so that consumers are still offered discounts.

MacAskill has responded by saying he would look at introducing minimum prices for alcohol.

Campaigners against cheap drink have suggested the minimum price should be set at 50p for a unit of alcohol, meaning a "bargain" bottle of red wine currently priced at £3 would have to sell for at least £5.

Last week, ministers said they would consider increasing the age limit on alcohol sales from 18 to 21 in supermarkets and off-licences.

Industry insiders predict the move to ban cheap drink deals will fail. They say suppliers will continue to have promotional budgets and will simply find new ways of spending them. One possibility, according to insiders, is that suppliers and supermarkets will cut alcohol prices across the board.

The suggestion has infuriated MacAskill. He said: "Just last month supermarkets were talking the talk about the need to tackle cheap alcohol. I welcomed that, but talk is cheap – as cheap as the bucket loads of drink they are selling to get folk into their shops. This month it would appear that we are back to playing games."

He added: "They should know that we are intent on tackling irresponsible promotion and pricing. If there are measures that seek to evade those responsibilities we will not hesitate to use all available powers to ensure that they are addressed."

He went on: "Nothing is ruled out of this strategy, and the price of alcohol is one of a number of issues that is being considered."

Alcohol campaigners say MacAskill has the power under recent licensing laws to create new definitions of irresponsible alcohol promotions. They say, for example, that alcohol sold at below cost price could be defined as irresponsible, and thereby be banned.

The British Liver Trust has backed calls for a minimum price for alcohol and suggested 50p per unit as a guide for a minimum price for drink.

Under such a scheme, many of the deals being offered in supermarkets in Scotland yesterday would be illegal.

A pack of 20 bottles of Stella Artois, with a strength of 5% alcohol, was priced at £8.98 in Sainsbury's in Gorgie, Edinburgh. Under the Liver Trust's pricing scheme it would have to cost a minimum of £14.20.

A 750ml bottle of Granules Tesoro Garnacha Rioja, which was yesterday priced at £3.20 from Tesco online, would have a minimum price of £5.05.

A two-litre bottle of White Lightning Cider would cost £7.50 instead of the £3.08 currently charged by Asda.

Supermarket groups and retailers last night warned against Draconian measures.

A spokesman for Asda said: "We are not convinced that raising the price of alcohol is the correct solution to the problem. It is a blunt instrument that raises the price to the millions of consumers who drink responsibly. The key issue is changing our culture and encouraging awareness of sensible drinking, a process we are committed to working with Government on as part of its alcohol strategy."

Fiona Moriarty of the Scottish Retail Consortium added: "Scotland has got a difficult and complex relationship with alcohol, which is not going to be solved by dealing with price and promotions alone. It has to look at early intervention and awareness-raising."

The stores also point to new measures they have put in place to prevent irresponsible drinking, such as proof-of-age schemes for anyone who looks under 25, the removal of controversial drinks and a commitment to prosecute under-18s who try to buy drink.

But alcohol awareness groups say that raising prices is the only way to cut down on excessive drinking.

The Alcohol Health Alliance claim that by increasing the cost of alcohol by 10% the number of alcohol-related deaths could be cut by anywhere between 10% and 30%.

• Shops are defying government attempts to clamp down on cheap alcohol by pressurising suppliers to absorb the extra costs from tax rises, it was claimed last night. A drinks industry document reportedly calls on brewers and distillers not to increase prices to retailers so that they can continue selling drink cheaply.

The full article contains 807 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
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23/03/2008 00:22:07
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23/03/2008 00:22:39
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23/03/2008 00:24:49
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4

karinxx,

23/03/2008 00:31:00
i have to say that we really do need to do something about alcohol problems. Smoking used to be the big problem in scotland and due to price rises and legislation smokers are now lepers me included. So i think we need to go the same way with alcohol.
5

karinxx,

23/03/2008 00:31:01
i have to say that we really do need to do something about alcohol problems. Smoking used to be the big problem in scotland and due to price rises and legislation smokers are now lepers me included. So i think we need to go the same way with alcohol.
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 00:33:26
'Dear O Dear O Me'!!!!

Stock-up now, before the 'Muppet Show' becomes reality!

"Binge Drinkers" will always find the Money to get legless!

My 'Cider Farm' is now set-up, so forget Asda, and the likes,

"Binge Drinkers Welcome"
7

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 00:34:04
better say it twice then karinxx
8

subrosa,

23/03/2008 00:35:18
#4 & # 5

Tend to agree. When water is dearer than alcohol in supermarkets action has to be taken.

Mind you, the way the suppliers are talking, there may not be much of an increase.
9

karinxx,

23/03/2008 00:41:41
now how did that happen
10

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 23/03/2008 01:10:58
Mr AM2 or perhaps Mrs I work for a FTSE 100 listed company and vote SNP .

I am a lot higher paid than most Labour voters I know because the sole reason they have for voting Labour is to preserve their public sector jobs or level of Benefits .

SICK OF IT LET THEM JOIN THE REAL WORLD AND NOT SCROUNGE FROM THE TAX MONEY I PAY EACH MONTH
11

jimboo,

the wemyss 23/03/2008 01:23:33
they are driving our kids into the arms of the pushers, drunken middle class alcoholic politicians can afford their expensive drinks. our kids, well the price of smack has collapsed, skunk is everywhere, ? hypocrites
12

subrosa,

23/03/2008 01:33:51
# 13

You're talking drivel and you know it. The average SNP voter is a professional and you know that too if you've done your homework to any standard. I despair. Your constant knocking of the SNP and its supporters does you no credit. Pray tell me, what's the average income of a labour supporter? I don't know that fact because there are none where I reside.
13

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 01:34:08
So a big rise there will be, in the 'Home Brewing' Kits!

One 'Share-Price' that will escalate!
14

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 23/03/2008 01:35:22
AM2

I have noticed your posts on here and you seem to be backed up with some survey or poll would you like to do the same here that explains SNP voters have lower income than Labour voters
15

Legacy,

NE 23/03/2008 01:39:21
Why does he not threaten the the Gas and Electric Co's to get their prices DOWN, or don't that matter, as it's only the low-income peasants that suffer, from the criminal energy prices.
But there again it's only the low-income peasants who worry about the price of drink going up!
*
Tell me that Kenny was in Norway for his hols!!!
But there again, he's doing away with the Council Tax!!!
16

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 23/03/2008 01:44:12
#10 AM2

You have completely blown your cover. Your assertion is quite revealing:-

"The average SNP voter is lower paid than a voter for any other party.

Kenny's heart's in the right place, but he's no electoral strategist! LOL."

Isn't it shocking that the SNP designs policy for the good of the public rather than for political expediency?

Secondly I would challenge your notion that the SNP voters are lower paid than supporters of other parties (is this a crude way to suggest that the most underprivalged and uneducated in society support the SNP?). The SNP draws most support from affluent parts of the country and from those with some education that have manged to cut through the systematic anti-snp propganda feed to them by the British state and media.
17

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 01:44:36
"The average SNP voter is lower paid than a voter for any other party."
I detect a hint of a sneer there. If you are correct, does it not worry your Labour pals that they no longer speak for Scotland's working classes....

Anyway, back to the issue in hand - we have a generation of kids in Scotland where significant numbers are growing up with life shortening liver damage. Is this not an issue that should attract cross-party support? Not if you're a Labour supporter and like to throw the "kiljoy Kenny" or "nanny state" smears at what is a genuine attempt to do something - not that the Labour Party and their lobbyist pals (not to mention the Sainsbury donations) ever got round to....


18

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 23/03/2008 01:57:49

Back onto the article:- Controlling price is the crudest, yet most effective way to control demand for any good. What is clear is that a new approach is required to combat alcohol abuse in Scotland.

Education is a long road and the effectiveness of public health education programs can be seriously challenged. This is a problem that requires short and mid term solutions - not wishy-washy expensive long term education campaigns (as supported by the 'industry')that will guarantee no results.

This whole debate is the perfect example of why Scotland needs seperate government from the rest of the UK. We know that alcohol is a problem in Scotland relative to the rest of the UK (can we all agree on this) and that we need policies that address this serious issue to fit our circumstances. Ideally the Scottish government would be able to impose additional taxes on the sale of alcohol - revenue accruing from this going to Scottish coffers.

It is unrealistic to expect the drinks industry to regulate itself. Drinks companies want to sell as much product as possible, they do not believe they have a social obligation. It is the place of government to regulate such markets. Are there any cries of foul play in Sweden where all off-sales are controlled through government run outlets at high prices? - no.

This sort of initiave is beyond politics (though not for the mocking AM2), if drinks companies don't like it or try to get around it simply impose punative tarrifs on their product (this is the only language they understand).

The message should be lopud and clear:-

YOU WILL BE REGULATED
19

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 23/03/2008 02:01:56
Every few posts you come across one that displays the mentallity of the SNP's political opponents:-

#17 - "Peasants"

What a high regard you have for your countrymen sir
20

gaffer,

Kamloops, B,C.Canada 23/03/2008 03:04:44
seems to me that there is to much intervention from Goverments into trying to control free enterprise , because kids and adultsdont want to control their drinking habits, these idiot that are in control of goverments thnk they can do it for them by imposing higher prices, these cant be the actions of educated people , or are the so educated that they have lost sight of what could be done , and that would be jail those who are caught selling the boose to young people and jail those who are caught drunk , failing that send the kids to a boot camp for a term and lets watch the results,
21

Guga II,

Rockall 23/03/2008 03:41:02
That total waste of space, Kenny MacAskill, strikes again.

Putting up prices will not stop binge drinkers, it will only penalise the majority of people that enjoy a quite drink now and again. As for the proposal being floated to raise the drinking age to 21, that is utter garbage. the current age of 18 doesn't seem to stop the teeny-boppers from drinking, so raising the age limit won't affect them in the slightest.

If MacAskill would get his head out of his backside, he might realise that the only way to stop binge drinkers, especially those ones that cause all the street fighting and drink induced crime, is to actually punish them. I know that might seem like a novel concept to a total numpty who has stated that he deosn't want to gaol anyone under the age of 18 (presumably including murderes and rapists).

Put all the young neds and thugs in tented camps, surrounded by razor wire, and make them work by having them on chain gangs.

Stop trying to penalise ordinary people because you are so bereft of ideas MacAskill. Better still, wee Eck should give him the boot.
22

Rozz Fyffe,

Scotland 23/03/2008 04:21:51
until Scotland and indeed the UK start to neuter and "dress" those criminals, junkies, rapists, peados and malcontents there will be problems
23

,

23/03/2008 04:24:11
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24

Scot Richards,

Beijing 23/03/2008 05:20:16
Interesting. I guess the SNP never heard of Ted Heath and his disasterous Price and Wages policy of the 70s.

The government has absolutely no right interfering the commerce of Scotland or denying our pensioners the right to a wee dram at an affordable price. The earlier comments about this being Communism have a point. Then again, I live in a communist country - China - where a 750ml bottle of YanJing Beer (quite good) sells for the equivalent of 11p. A bottle of Johnnie Walker Red for £6. Even so, I don't see many drunks here.

Perhaps if the SNP made Scotland a place where people like me could live again instead of emigrating they might find that rather than getting p*shed young people would have something to work for.
25

timbrusky,

Texas, USA 23/03/2008 06:29:53
Well folks, when your Government determines what price you may sell anything in your store, YOU NO LONGER OWN the store! Wake up folks. Tell this idiot to take a hike. Whew!
26

Kenny A,

23/03/2008 07:54:23
23 Guga

Often do not agree with what you post. This time however you are spot on. Increasing the price of drink will not slow down the problem cases. It will only hurt the people who drink reasonably.

Punishment if people step over the line is the way forward.

Not advocating a step back to the middle ages but I cannot take my grandchildern out with me when I go home to the Islands, one of my childern who still lives there is seriously wary about going out due to the pissed up youngsters seen in the evernings. Where do they get the loot?

Always a wild place the Islands, populated by decent people in general, increasing the price of drink will not slow down the Dawn Patrol. Dont know if it is true but rumour has it some of the hard core drunks get a bottle a day of the state as "medicine", if that is true what point is there raising the price of drink for the rest of us.
27

ianH,

Balerno 23/03/2008 07:56:09
I don't know if the Exec pay much attention to these posts, but I'm fed up with the thoughts of Mr MacAskill, I do not think I will vote SNP again
28

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 23/03/2008 08:08:15
Price is little to do with the alcohol problem. It's ease of availability that matters; together with peer pressure and absence of positive parental influence.

Smoking has fallen not because of price, but for health, fashion and negative image reasons.
29

BIG EYE,

Paisley 23/03/2008 08:08:57
I think he means well but

1. Most young binge drinkers buy their supplies from small off licences not supermarkets

2. There is a dnager that high alcohol prices will boost the sale of cheaper illegal drugs.

3. Price hikes are a blunt instrument and punish the innocent as well. Don't know if its possible but could there not be two prices, one for buying alcohol on its own and another if the alcohol is bought alongside say about £20 of non alcoholic products, excluding cigarettes?. Can't see the bingers wanting to buy milk,bread of shampoo alongside the bottle of cider!
30

Stepford Nat,

23/03/2008 08:09:44
29
No, don't defect - that will make you a unionist. Kenny is brilliant. Labour is rubbish.
Join us ww.snp.org
31

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 08:15:30
23. I think you are correct, Kenny MacAskill is to be congratulated on trying very hard to tackle the blight of under-age and unhealthy binge drinking, but putting up prices is not the way to do it. With ciders and alcopops so cheap, an extra 50p or £1 on them won't price them out of anti-social drinkers budgets, but will mean responsible types end up paying alot more for other drinks. This step-wise price driven prohibition will not achieve much.
32

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 23/03/2008 08:31:17
It would appear that Kenny McAskill is a prat of the highest order. Government to regulate fun, next? Sales to be banned to cut down on binge-shopping? Enforced excercise regimes for a healthier nation?
33

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 08:34:43
36. I was responsible in my drinkage last night. Top of the morning to you :-)
34

Pattester,

Galashiels 23/03/2008 08:35:27
Who does this numpty think he is, open your eyes Kenny this won't help the binge drinker just make them commit more crime to get the money they want to go drinking. Come into the real world and punish the offenders, don't molly coddle them a short sharp stint in an army camp would do it and make them respect what they had was good. Taxing everyone will do nothing except line the pockets of Gordon Brown and Co soon we will be taxed so much they won't have to bother giving us a wage each week or month it will just go straight to the government in fact its not far from that at the moment. After all I though we lived in a FREE country HA HA and they were supposed to be looking after the interests of the voters and like the price of fuel its about time they realised we can and will get rid of them from their cushy jobs if they don't start doing what they promised before they came to power.
35

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 08:39:01
Typical SNP response to anything, government knows best and tries to change behaviour through useless legislation. Why anyone thinks this is other than an old-fashioned Socialist party beats me. We'll be the new Ireland they keep telling us. Aye, right, we'll be the command economy basket case Ireland of the 1960s.

Let the people decide how they want to live their lives but face the consequences of bad behaviour. Your bairn has been found out of its face by the polis? Lose your child benefit for a while and your own if there's any repeat. You have to go to hospital because you've almost killed yourself through drink or injured yourself? A nice big, fat bill for treatment from the NHS. Should help cure the hangover.
36

Unimpressed one,

23/03/2008 08:45:03
given that it's buckie and cheap cider that are the drinks of choice of the itellectually challenged, why doesn't he impose draconian prices on these products first just to see what effect this has on 'binge drinking'? Better still, why not take the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone, and impose a realistic returnable deposit on these bottles? No typical Rottweiler politics - ban all, and threaten most. What a to*sser of a man.
37

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 23/03/2008 08:50:47
#40 Spook

It is not a sales-price problem, it is a social problem. Your children go out and get pished because you did it when you were young. Banning sales promotions is not 'tackling the problem', it is merely the banning of sales promotions. If you think that is 'trying', you are mistaken. Do you seriously think it is the supermarket's fault that some people drink heavily?
38

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 08:51:04
41. Irresponsible parents whose children end up in the gutter drunk, taking up police time (Tony Blair?).

Irresponsible parents whose children sell and take drugs (Jack Straw?)

Irresponsible steamers who get blootered and threaten the safety of others (Lords Wastson and Foulkes)

I think your solutions a bit simplistics - as this wee list shows even responisble parents doing their best can't control their kids all the time, and the odd mishap like arson or assaulting a policeman can befall even the most "upstanding" Lords.
39

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

23/03/2008 08:58:42
tak a drink
40

cabrach loon,

inverness 23/03/2008 09:06:19
anyone desperate can brew their own, cut their costs and deny the govt the outrageous high tax revenue they would otherwise pay, I used to do it though now for medical reasons I rarely drink.

THe young should be warned very strongly that they are heading for gout and liver problems after middle age if not before / so be moderate, it is no good killing yourself and your brain prematurely
41

McMillar,

Fife 23/03/2008 09:12:08
We need to take some drastic action on this topic so seems like a good idea to be used in conjunction with all others. Scotland has a very poor record and reputation for health/drinking and it’s not what we should be known as going fwd. Controls are essential to kick start the future health of everyone.
42

Forward not Back,

23/03/2008 09:15:04
Are Viccy Wine, Haddows and the like about to open a chain of stores between Carlisle and Berwick? What a nonsensical idea this is!

What would be more effective is clamping down on adults who go and buy alcohol for kids.
43

FTH22inarow,

23/03/2008 09:17:59
MSP's MP's how about letting people live their own lives, do you honestly think putting the price up will stop alcoholics drinking? its just another tax on the working classes
44

John H C,

edinburgh 23/03/2008 09:34:01
Is there no learning from others' mistakes. Just look at what happened in America early 20th century with prohibition! Drink was sold in the black market and mafia gangs became powerful. Waken up Mr McAskil and realise you cannot bully the public. Go ahead with this foolish plan and you will suffer at the next election.
45

Rob me blind,

Peterhead 23/03/2008 09:49:04
Well Kenny is only saying out loud what the SNP want to do with many things. They have plans to increase our cost of living to enable them to carryout their half baked ideas. Just look around the country and tell me what the SNP have actually done in either Scottish Government or Local Government that has not put an additional burden on us the tax payer. Once the SNP get full tax raising powers then the pound in your pocket will just disappear.

The so called ‘local income tax’ raised in Edinburgh and then handed out will never be a fair way of paying for services, all those who don’t work or who have incomes through savings or shares will just sit back and laugh. Every person who bothers to work will be paying for even poorer services than we currently get. The changed people likely Kenny are shouting for are the very same changes that will drive the big businesses from Scotland.

WAKE UP SCOTLAND GET RID OF THE SNP BEFORE THEY DAMAGE BEYOND REPAIR THIS COUNTRY.
46

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 23/03/2008 09:52:47
The real problem is that there is very little stigma attached to being hammered, of an evening, in Scotland. Hopefully, one day people will realise that watching their parents die of alchol-related illnesses is uncool (it seems to be working for young people in Russia).

Anyway, blaming supermarkets is just plain daft. It wasnae me, it was Tesco? Jeez-o...
47

Mark, embra,

embra 23/03/2008 09:53:05
Well done to the SNP for tackling this issue.
48

portonian,

falkirk 23/03/2008 09:53:12



do pensioners get coupons under the new scheme

or is this just a tax hike
49

Guga II,

Rockall 23/03/2008 10:00:32
#28 Kenny A.

Just out of interest, registered alcoholics get £10 a day from the government to buy booze. Nice to know where your taxes are going, isn't it?

As for the Dawn Patrol, most of them are dead or dying off, though there are some younger one stepping in to fill the ranks.
50

Bermuda Bie,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 10:01:46
This problem has a cause and an effect. The Sad Numpties are trying to deal with the effect but they have it wrong. (Surprised?). The binge drinkers live at home and they are supported by their parents therefore all their income is disposable. A few pounds here and there will have no effect.

Consider the cause. Why are young people obsessed with drinking? Copying their parents, peer pressure, boredom, lack of ambition, the concept of hobbies and interests being lost, or even a chance to build confidence and beat the xxxx of of someone. These are the issues that have to be dealt with.
51

David55,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 10:09:20
What is the point of alcohol, if not to get you drunk?

Why don't we all just drink soft drinks?

Why do some people need a drink at the end of the week?

Maybe the politicians should try and come up with answers to these questions.

I don't think this is a vote winner. Cheap deals on wine in supermarkets is one of the few inexpensive things in my life. There are enough expensive things in life, such as rent, mortgage, council tax, utility bills, paye tax, national insurance, car insurance, road tax, petrol, travelcards, train tickets, plane tickets, parking tickets,....etc. etc.
52

Mike Partick,

Glasgow 23/03/2008 10:10:11
#53 - this isn't actually prohibition that is being suggested, but stopping cut price alcohol....I think we are still a long way from prohibition.

53

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/03/2008 10:21:36
I think these proposals are worth trying. The trick is to increase the prices on the cheapest drink only. This in combination with raising the age limit together with changing attitudes towards alcohol can only be positive.

At least the SNP are willing to try something radical which is more than can be said of the LabLib Executive.
54

DaveK,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 10:22:36
If people were to be ID'd via mental age rather than actual age, this idiot wouldn't get served. He's way out of line and way out of his remit and gives a little taste of what life would be like under a free SNP Reich. What's the point of Salmond trying to "look" like a statesman when the rest of his crew look like utter numpties.
55

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 23/03/2008 10:33:09
Yes a marxist state by the sounds of it but it will be the lower paid working class and pensioners who will suffer I just wonder what would happen if all the supermarkets pulled out of scotland the new marxist stae and left all there employees on the brew that would cripple the economy, besides people will always find cheap boose ie going to england to buy it and the contenant kenny cant stop that as we are part of the european union the economy of scotland will suffer in the long run and the north of englands will benifit
56

King Billy.,

23/03/2008 10:38:31
Orange Vodka does it for me.
I am glad to see the SNP are taking steps on this issue unlike the Unionist drones.
57

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 23/03/2008 10:39:47
I think raising the drinking age would be a good step, but you would also have to police this as many retailers would continue to sell drink to children.
I do not think that raising prices will be very effective, in fact it could be counter productive. If you raise the price high enough it will encourage White Van Men to bring in cheap booze from outside Scotland. Since selling this booze would in itself be illegal I don't think that their customers age would be much of a concern for them. If you really are serious about reducing underage drinking in Scotland then you need to use the police. You need a zero tolerance approach in which everyone found staggering around the streets are arrested and charged.
58

bill-alba,

Fife 23/03/2008 10:41:44
#64 if the supermarkets were to pull out of Scotland it would be to everyone's benefit (take a look at any hight st in any town)...I think you'll find that the poor pensioners aren't going to the supermarkets to stock up on drink and people who really want a drink will make their own because they will be to pi$$ed to drive to the north of england to top up. so please go away with your marxist state..are you really a serviceman??
59

Jimmy the Pie,

23/03/2008 10:42:53
Do all the posters, critical of Kenny MacAskill think that there are no alcohol problems in Scotland?? Are they blind (or just blind drunk)? Years ago drink was relatively more expensive than it is today. Countries in Scandanavia realise they have problems with alcohol and tax it heavily. This doesn't stop the serious pi$hheads but they have a much reduced problem. Remember we all have to pay through the NHS to pick up the pieces left.
60

DaveK,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 10:43:28
If Kenny MacAskill were a drink he would be a turd cocktail!
61

iain morrison,

nairn 23/03/2008 10:45:10
I am a Nationalist but Kenny MacAskill appears to be losing the plot. Where is his evidence that cost is the problem. Why isn't it greater in France, Spain,Italy and Greece who all have much cheaper drink? Our problem is cultural and should be addressed as such. Does he really want to see massive booze warehouses in Carlise, growing the English economy, a wee trip to Calais would be highly educational for him.
62

iain morrison,

Nairn 23/03/2008 10:46:44
Jimmy the Pie,23/03/2008 10:42:53
Do all the posters, critical of Kenny MacAskill think that there are no alcohol problems in Scotland?? Are they blind (or just blind drunk)? Years ago drink was relatively more expensive than it is today. Countries in Scandanavia realise they have problems with alcohol and tax it heavily. THEY STILL HAVE A PROBLEM, WHILE COUNTRIES WITH A MATURE APPROACH LIKE FRANCE DO NOT.
63

Transparent?,

Scotland 23/03/2008 10:51:01
#1. Communism is Capitalism monopolized.
64

lachlan,

23/03/2008 10:54:52
if the objective of your drinking is to get drunk you will find the type of alcohol that does that for.if it gets to dear you go for cheaper brand or make your own.scandinavia is often reported as a success in dealing with thier problem.i don't think they are as successfull as we would like to think.if you put alcohol out of the reach of most young people other people are more than willing to sell them other substances that will get them 'oot the box'.it is our attitude to alcohol and drunkeness that is the problem.
65

Publius,

London 23/03/2008 10:56:05
(1) #8 SubRosa
You write that 'when water is dearer than alcohol in supermarkets action has to be taken'.
It's only a few months since supermarkets were selling petrol for less than mineral water (you can still find some bottles of 750 cl sold at £1.50), but people can't get enough of mineral water.
Mineral water drinking and binge drinking don't happen because mineral water or alcohol are cheap. They happen because they are fashionable.
(2) Underage drinking has little to do with big supermarkets. It's not supermakets they buy the stuff from.
66

Macbeth 1616,

Fife 23/03/2008 10:59:57
The argument against raising prices is that it penalises the potentially poor drinker, sensible drinker who does no one any harm. This may be true.

The downside is that at night the streets are full of drunken youths who have binged out on alcohol that is cheaper than bottled water, or irn bru.

If the biggest concern is drunks on the streets then "something needs to be done". If a bigger concern is that sensible drinkers should be able to afford their tipple then we don't need to do anything.

The price rise is a blunt instrument, but it is a big problem that needs addressed.

Retailers and drinks companies are measured on sales/profits. Their attitude to the issue is the same as that around tobacco. Never will there be voluntary actions for these companies, they need pushed.

Can you imagine Tesco putting up "This food kills" on their deli counter. That is what they do on their tobacco sales. If they have morals that are so low as to sell lethal products then I doubt they have any concerns about alcohol.
67

Jimmy the Pie,

23/03/2008 11:08:07
#71 Iain Morrison.

The further south you go the less the problem appears to be. Every country on a latitude like ours and North seem to have an alcohol problem and tries to control it by restricting availabilty and by high taxation. If nothing else, higher taxes on drink would help pay for the NHS costs of dealing with the results of the nations binges.

Does this not make sense to you???
68

mr angry,

ayrshire 23/03/2008 11:16:34
Mcaskill is a turnip, just because he got lifted for drunk and disorderly he seems obsessed with raising the price of alcohol. Perhaps he needs to go into a dark room and engage some braincells. This will do nothing to consumption, it will only move it to other outlets, ie home production or black market. The environment will get clobbered with all the Transits plying back and forth between England and Scotland.
This clown could destroy the SNP singlehanded.
The problem is much bigger than price, he needs to think how the culture can be changed, no easy task. Assaid many many times , lot of countries have far cheaper prices and many times less drunks , price is not the reason. Also why should majority be made to apy for the minority of idiots, strange way of thinking and sure to alienate voters big time.
69

davieboy144,

23/03/2008 11:26:15
Putting up the price of alcohol will not stop alcoholics from buying it.

Alcoholics will still buy it and as a result their kids will get even less from the family budget, which statistically speaking, is an already tight one.
70

George Mackay,

Coupar Angus 23/03/2008 11:29:29
Kenny MacAskill is right. Something needs to be done about our culture of alcoholism. I'm spending the weekend with my Auntie Jean in Coupar Angus. I went out last night to get her a bottle of Drambuie from the Co-op and I was shocked by the alcoholism I saw on the streets of this little town. When I got back to Auntie's I had to have a dram or two to get over my shock and I drank over half my bottle of 10 year old Talisker. Auntie Jean who is 87 says that drunkenness on the streets is getting worse all the time. If it wasn't for her Drambuie she doesn't know how she could face doing her messages.
Isn't it good that we now have wise men like Kenny McAskill in the government?
71

Gtj,

Dundee 23/03/2008 11:32:58
"JUSTICE Secretary Kenny MacAskill has declared war on the UK's leading supermarkets".

What, is he going to burst in various supermarkets and kill hundreds of thousands of employees in the name of money. - O, sorry I'm getting mixed up with another WAR.

I appreciate this outfit are always going to go to any length to sensationalize trivial stories against the SNP. However it is possible to go to far.
72

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 23/03/2008 11:35:09
Take a trip to Sweden all those who think this is such a stupid idea.

Sweden before the government controlled pricing and supply of off-sales had a terrible alcohol problem.

They have managed to control their alcohol problem through regulated supply.

Sweden is not a communist country but a liberal democracy(and dare I say an extremely succesful country whose social and economic policies Scotland could do well to emulate).

The facts are Scotland has an alcohol problem - a significant minority of people are 'hooked' on alcohol. It would be abhorent to most if other problem drugs like Cocain or Heroin were not regulated by government - what's the difference?

You would think MacAskill had just raided everyones piggy banks from some of the squeels on here. All he is proposing is taking cheap and nasty alcohol and basement price deals out of the market. Government is duty bound to regulate when commerce is unable to do so by their primary goal of 'selling more product'.

Get a grip you naysayers, go for it Kenny.

73

iain morrison,

Nairn 23/03/2008 11:36:18
Jimmy the Pie,23/03/2008 11:08:07
#71 Iain Morrison.

The further south you go the less the problem appears to be. Every country on a latitude like ours and North seem to have an alcohol problem and tries to control it by restricting availabilty and by high taxation. If nothing else, higher taxes on drink would help pay for the NHS costs of dealing with the results of the nations binges.

Does this not make sense to you???

NO because it ignores The Netherlands, Poland and Germany which do not have the problem. Can you not see that the countries with the most draconian rules have the worst problems and those like France which culturaly and legaly introduce responsible social drinking from a young age do not - no answer to the Carlise question I see.
74

iain morrison,

Nairn 23/03/2008 11:39:23
84# I suggest you find out what a swedish "Cray fish" party is.
75

beech hedge,

blairgowrie 23/03/2008 11:40:02
MacAskill is an idiot and Alex Salmond should get rid of the drunken football hooligan.I can see a lot of Snp. voters being put off by this clown and I shall be writing to my msp stating my opposition to any of his plans.
76

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 23/03/2008 11:45:48
#84 Iain

I never siad that the Swedes don't like a swally! - they do.

They certainly do not drink to the same excess as we do and they do not drink heavily as often.

It's pretty strictly a weekend affair or a summertime after work 'couple' they enjoy
77

Saintee,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 11:50:38
Lets get this straight. Alcohol IS NOT cheaper than water. Some water is overpriced and , if you are daft enough you can pay more for water than caviar.

In Tesco, though, even though you can spend approx £2 on a litre of water you can also buy 2 litres for 18p.

Someone please tell me where I can buy alcohol for less than 9p a litre.

78

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 23/03/2008 11:52:07
Does he have the power to demand they put a lower price on petrol? And will he encourage them to stock up on these charming denim outfits the peasants in China wore.
Attempting to stifle free enterprise and competition is a step down a very dangerous and rocky path. MacAskill should watch that he doesn't trip over his own big feet as he tries to dictate to the supermarkets what they will charge for their goods.
79

iain morrison,

nairn 23/03/2008 11:55:24
#88 Dougie its much more than a couple they enjoy.

But I agree with you its not as big a problem there than here, not because of cost, but because of a generally fairer society. I would much prefer we copy there good ideas rather than their bad ones. Also for a country with a outstanding social make up their problem is greater than it should be, in fact greater than all the low cost alcohol countries such as Germany, France, The Netherlands, etc etc.

Also if we price Neds out of drink we just push more of them into drugs - not a good idea.

We do have to address our booze cultue, but this is not the way to do it.
80

Lennox11,

Coatbridge 23/03/2008 12:05:01
Who does Makaskill thing he is,there is nothing he can do about this, again more bull***t & wind from an SNP executive, this is clearly an example of you may change the word from exceutive to government, and this issue clearly shows the SNP are no government, just wind.
81

Stefania Alvarez,

23/03/2008 12:21:53
The Hollyrood so-called 'government' are again missing the point here.

The middle classes and the wealthy will still booze.

This is aimed at the poor.

Compared to France; Spain; Germany and other countries where children learn to drink responsibly ... with their parents
... Britain and the USA are backward.

In Scotland like other parts of the UK ... getting really drunk is a "rites of passage" thing for the young as they approach adulthood.

Also binge drinking and people who go out to get completely out of their heads on alcohol.

Backward attitudes to alcohol!!
82

,

23/03/2008 12:27:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
83

General-Blood,

Edinburgh/Gutersloh 23/03/2008 12:29:39
What a load of crap raising prices of alcohol will stop people drinking or will slow their drinking down what a load of horse manure. I am in the army and have a drink problem and guess what just because you raise the prices is not going to get me to stop drinking the amount of drink i drink. I mean i am not hurting anyone and i do my job does not affect my work. All I see is scotland being turned into a dictatorship where the anti drinking/smoking cabal dictate to the rest of scotland so much for democracy.
84

,

23/03/2008 12:31:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
85

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 23/03/2008 12:39:36
#101

You are beyond help
86

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 23/03/2008 13:23:22
All the posters above, who think that Scandanavian alchoholism was cured when they drastically increased alchol taxes should get a reality check and look at the alchoholism rate in Finland, compared to Scotland.
87

long live the supermarkets,

Dundee 23/03/2008 13:39:28
Tell me a what price level under age kids are going to stop drinking are they going to stop if you double the price.
What about a thing called parental responsibility its not so much about where are the kids tonight it should be where are the parents tonight.d
88

Boggle fey the Bog,

23/03/2008 13:41:03
70 iain morrison,nairn 23/03/2008 10:45:10

I totally agree with you Iain.
Kenny should consider sorting out the problems with our criminal and civil law before he goes down the 'prohibitionist route', which has been proven to be a failure in other countries.

Further, unlike the tobacco companies, the brewers, distillers and supermarkets can and will legally challenge any law that 'restricts their right to trade, in a free market'.

They have already said as much, when this idea was first brought up.

As for increasing the age of purchasing alcohol, form off licences, to 21 another 'non-starter' as this would in effect bring in a 'three tier purchase system'.

1) it is quite legal to buy alcohol for 'children of 14 years or over to be consumed with a meal in a restaurant.
2) it is legal for an Adult over 18 to buy alcohol for consumption on licensed premises.
3) it would be illegal for the same Adult to buy alcohol for consumption 'off' the premises.

This brings up various questions, not least that at 18 you are an adult, can be married, without parental consent (I know that in Scotland that age is 16), can enter into legally binding contracts, and can vote in Local, General and European elections, and can fight and die for your country.

If Kenny wants to tackle alcohol abuse, then unlike the 'one-size' fits all answer that the SNP tabled over smoking, which in my humble opinion is an illegal law, as it prevents millions of law abiding citizens, from their basic, fundamental and constitutional right, enshrined in the Scotland Act, of 'Freedom of Association'.

He would do well to steer clear of this idiotic and ill-concieved idea.

BTW, I to am a Nationalist, and probably more so than many of the present SNP politicians, as I want Scotland to be an Independent Nation State, not an Independent constituent part of a 'Franco-Germanic Greater Europe'.
89

George Mackay,

Coupar Angus 23/03/2008 13:46:00
105 Boggle
Right on about ages. Our young people can legally have sex at 16, but can't have a smoke afterwards until they're 18. And if Kenny MacAskill has his way they won't beable to have drink first to psych themselves up until they're 21!
90

Mac Gill-eathan,

23/03/2008 13:51:49
I see this unionist rag still has the complicit British (Nazi) nationalist spewing out their bile again! What a perfidoius shower of bowler hats-drop dead AM2 ya balloon!
91

alanh,

ek 23/03/2008 13:54:01
personally i would abolish the BOGOF offers on booze or the ones at the likes of asda to get 3 bottles for a tenner.

But anything that stops the shops selling alcohol cheaper than water or soft drinks must be a good thing imo
92

Boggle fey the Bog,

23/03/2008 13:55:08
106 Encarta,23/03/2008 13:45:02

Aw come on Encarta ye wid suck a 'spangle' but ye widnae suck MacAskill, maybe MacAskill could get Nestle to bring back 'Spangles', that might dae mair good fur the weans!!!

Dinnae tak Spangles name in vain ;-))
93

Blackie,

USA now 23/03/2008 14:08:56
The ages in Britain are silly. 16 for legal sex. They are children for God sakes. In New York a parent has control over their children until 18. Drink can be purchased at 21. Bars selling to under age lose their licences. Those selling to underage in shops are fined and lose their jobs. Prices should be higher and parents should have more control over their children. Why should something that can damage ones health such as tobacco and booze be cheap. Tax the hell out of it. Look at the cost to the NHS in caring for those that choose to ruin their health. You lot at home argue over the most stupid things for the sake of arguement. Have a Happy Easter and God Bless HM Armed Forces.
94

tommyboay,

23/03/2008 14:10:23
#109

Don't know who the biggest dafties are ...probably put my money on the nutcases that buy water in supermarkets!!!
95

Queen D,

Glasgow 23/03/2008 14:23:03
Apparently the Westminster Gov is doing the same!

I have just been out watching thousands of bikers doing their bit on the great egg run.
The press will give the event two lines somewhere, and BBC might give them a two second slot , so I'm here to tell you that it was fantastic and to say well done bikers young and old , lads and lassies !
Great job well done!
The run has grown and grown over the years ,from about 50 riders to 5000+ in the last few years!
Eggselent!
96

,

23/03/2008 15:38:33
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97

qohldr,

23/03/2008 15:50:45
There are law in existence to punish those that are drunk and disorderly and for any crime they may commit.
Yet again we see politicians intent on punishing the majority who in this case drink sensibly for the actions of a minority.
98

vorlic,

edinburgh 23/03/2008 15:52:09
if the goverment is so concerned about our health is it not about time that they paid attention to the price of gas/electric and food prices.binge drinkers will always buy beer/spirits no matter the price.
99

Quiet John,

Tinley Park 23/03/2008 15:56:37
Look at how well prohibition worked in the US for Alcohol, and how well it is working for drugs.

Raising prices too far will just create a new class of criminals.
100

Andrew Buchan,

Kincardineshire 23/03/2008 16:51:15
About time somebody threatened the supermarkets.

Anyone care to hazard a guess at the differential between how much the producer gets for a pint of milk or a pound of bacon, and what the supermarkets charge?

It's a wonder we've any farmers left in this country.
101

,

23/03/2008 17:41:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
102

Nikostratos,

23/03/2008 17:45:14
So the L.I.T will give more income to the lower paid who then will buy more drink............Or what mr swinney gives with one hand mr MacAskill takes back with the other.

Let alone the whinging from the snp over the tax increase on whisky...Oh that was done down south so was to be condemned by the snp. Contradiction there i would suggest..........
103

jkr,

Lochwinnoch Greater Glasgow 23/03/2008 17:51:33
Price increases will not solve the problem of binge drinking. Coronation St., Eastenders, Emmerdale and the rest of the soaps set in pubs should be taken off the air. That would soon solve the problem!!!
104

Displaced Scot,

UK 23/03/2008 17:56:23
Those within a few hours of the Border will head south and stock up on bargains in Carlisle Berwick etc. You are an adult at 18, limiting the right to purchase to over 21 will have human rights implications. O I forgot the SNP's beloved EU will re wright the rules to fit.
105

Nikostratos,

23/03/2008 17:58:05
You know what Hen broom when the final day(unionistaAgeddon ) comes and you lay broken at AM2s feet I'm gonna get a straw and suck your brains out of your ear...slurp..slurp..slurp

#124

spot on of course they will and why not......
106

Rabbies Wee Bruthir,

23/03/2008 18:00:08
119 Andrew Buchan, Kincardineshire 23/03/2008 16:51:15

Farm gate price of milk at Jan 2008 was 26.03p per litre, with Grahams milk retailing at 95p for 2 litres in my 'local corner shop' (that's 47.5p/Lt) it would appear that the 'Dairy' (Grahams) and the shop share about 21p/litre between them.

However I can't compare supermarket prices as anytime I look they are over £1-10p/2 litre container, so I just don't buy from them.(That poses the question, why with 'economies of scale', is milk more expensive in supermarkets, than in my local 'corner shop?)

Can't find a wholesale price for pork, but beef prices are currently running at 225p/kg deadweight, up from 207p-215p/kg d/w late last year.

Again you have to add in the 'processing and transport cost' then the retail 'mark-up'. But remember 'deadweight' includes 'bones' and 'lights'
107

Stefania Alvarez,

23/03/2008 18:06:06
Look at those who already make huge profits going on "booze cruises" to France for the day.

Go into most British pubs and there will be some guy come around with a hold-all jammed full of cut-price cigarettes.

As I said previously ... in Spain or France or Germany this problem does not exist ... kids grow up having alcohol with their meal supervised by their parents.
Children in other civilsed European countries learn about how to drink socially with their parents and family.
It is only the British and people from North America who have this backward 'rites of passage' + binge drinking culture.

Walk about the streets of Britain in any town or city on Fridays or Satuday night and you will see people who go out to get legless !!
108

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 18:11:40
128. The cleaning products section is open every day. I think Niko has been on the toilet duck and limescale remover, yet again.
109

Nikostratos,

23/03/2008 18:12:01
#128

never ever shop at ASDA ever..............Hen broom gets on me nerves..........
110

Stefania Alvarez,

23/03/2008 18:13:28
Number 118 Quiet John, yes there are already people profiting from selling cheap cigarettes in pub (the ones who go around with hold-alls stuffed full of ciggies).
Bumping up the cost of alcohol will just create a new opportunity for organised crime to make a quick profit.
Much better to have supermarkets and shops sell cheap alcohol (where at least taxes are paid to pay for schoolteachers and doctors).


It is the binge-drinking culture that needs to be changed.

Remember how the compulsory wearing of seat-belts in cars took time to kick in ... now most people wear them ... however go back to the 1960's and 1970's and the culture was quite different back then.
111

,

23/03/2008 18:25:09
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Reason:
112

HEN BROON 5,

23/03/2008 18:27:53


SO GOOD I SENT IT TWICE'''''''''''''''''''''''''''






"The Westminster poll comes on the back of the Holyrood poll last weekend, putting Alex Salmond 75 points ahead of Wendy Alexander, and the SNP surging to a 10 point lead in Scottish Parliament polls, as the Scottish Government removes prescription charges, delivers a Council Tax freeze, reintroduces free university education, and cuts small business rates."


Note: MRUK Cello interviewed 1.028 adults across Scotland between February 29 and March 9. The results are:

SNP: 34% (+16)
Labour: 34% (-5)
Con: 18% (+2)
Lib Dem: 9% (-14)
Other: 4% (-1)

Projected Westminster seats:

SNP: 15 (+9)
Lab: 34 (-6)
Lib Dem: 5 (-6)
Con: 4 (+3)








''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''


ALBA GU BRATH'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
113

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 18:34:33
1 and 3

Since when has Russia or China ever had anything to do with Communism or Socialism?? and why are you trying to present either ideal in a bad light??? what you are referring to smacks of capitalism to me.
114

Shamus,

Glasgow 23/03/2008 19:13:53
Macersekill is not going to take on the Chains. He is a windbag. The big Chains are all owned by outsiders and provide thousands of jobs and revenue for the Government. Is this the same Macersekill that was picked up from the ground in London, blootered.
115

Itchy,

23/03/2008 19:27:07
"JUSTICE Secretary Kenny MacAskill has declared war on the UK's leading supermarkets, warning he will impose minimum prices on alcohol if stores continue to offer cut-price deals."

Get lost MacAskill. This is a free country and not the Soviet Union.

The concepts of intelligence and free will are alien to you.
116

Itchy,

23/03/2008 19:29:52
#19 "Not if you're a Labour supporter and like to throw the "kiljoy Kenny" or "nanny state" smears at what is a genuine attempt to do something -"

Labour love the nanny state. MacAskill is on the wrong track with this proposal completely and is just pursuing a personal hobby horse.
117

Nikostratos,

23/03/2008 19:38:05
#135 The Spook in Leith,

I'm gonna suck your brains out of your ear with a straw...Slurp....slurp...........Hold on I'll just see if i can find me smallest straw.........Hum! not much of a meal outta spooky's brain
118

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 19:44:52
141

That is impossible to quantify!!! its more of your bullsh*t. How can you relate a weekly pay packet to somebodies address????
How many people are paid weekly and how many monthly?
The money is paid into back accounts how does it take into consideration where somebody actually lives???

What a load of b*llocks as usual. You made that entire table up yersell.
119

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 19:49:10
170

Its a web page anybody can create a web page I bet it isnt the first time you have created web pages to support yer p*sh.
120

Eve,

Scotland 23/03/2008 19:58:10
"But Scotland on Sunday can reveal the industry has warned the minister that if the bans are imposed, the supermarkets and drink suppliers will respond by simply lowering their prices for all drink so that consumers are still offered discounts."

The above quote is pure jiberises, for two reasons.

1)Eddie Barnes shows evedence he knows very little about the supermarkets and the food consumer industry. This being evident as it's NOT the suppliers that offer the discounts, it's the supermarkets who demand it and the supplier has no choice because they would loes the supermarkets business and would possible face bankruptcy/ or finical cut backs i.e. make staff redundant.

2) Minimum drink prices is more likely to be set at consumer price and NOT a percentage above the amount the suppliers sell alcohol to the supermarkets at. Cause that wouldn't work and would just rip of the suppliers.

50p per unit sounds like it might work. Personally I don't mind paying £1 per unit in a alcohol if the drink tastes good or enjoyable.
121

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 19:59:31
173

Nope I am accusing you of being a lying deceitful cybertroll who is completly incapable of posting a single sustainable fact. Now prove that webpage is genuine and it originated from a Gov server.
122

Nikostratos,

23/03/2008 20:02:26
#171


Actually thats a link right into the back of AM2s head...........
123

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:05:10
178

thats more likely than it being genuine.
124

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:09:31
180

thats not harsh thats honest. It would be harsh if it were untrue or an exaduration.
125

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:10:34
181

Try proving yer not a cyber troll.
126

Stefania Alvarez,

23/03/2008 20:10:45
The Labour Party took advantage of gullible Scots for years.

Now Salmond and his so-called 'government' are having their turn.

Scotland deserves better !!!

Salmond is no different from Blair / Brown / Wendy Alexander really.
127

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 20:13:02
185, Great post.
128

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 20:13:22
185. Stop showing off.
129

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 20:14:39
178. My goodness, Niko, you are correct. I clicked it and was taken into a strange cyber world of union jack underpants, with strobing images of Carol Voderman reciting tables of statistics. Scarey.
130

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 20:15:29
188. Ohh, what false accussation did he make? I'll adjudicate as its obvious you two will not agree with independent arbitration.
131

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:15:46
181

Funnily enough these web pages support exactly your argument and I mean exactly as if they were created just for that purpose I have noticed that a lot with your cutting and pasting. Its funny how you always seem to find exactly the web page you need exactly when you need it even when you post first on the thread seconds after the story breaks!!!!!!
132

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:16:45
188

I will do that just as soon as it happens.
133

Stefania Alvarez,

23/03/2008 20:19:47
Number 189 ... Ayrshire Scot ... that does sound scary Carol Vorderman is Union Jack underpants ...
... ooooh Matron !!!

Yikes !!!
134

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 20:20:49
193. Spook is a formidable debating opponent (so Kimba told me), but perhaps not even AM2 would be so devious as to plant data in the stats office site....
135

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 20:22:13
194. I did not state that that Carol Vorderman was wearing union jack underpants in the images I observed in AM2's mind. I said I saw union jack underpants, and Carol Voderman. This statement clearly reveals something of your thinking that I for one wish no part of.
136

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:25:50
193

You see thats not true at all I am suggesting you may very well have created the web page you link to in yer post at 170 and I am suggesting you have probably created other web pages in the past before posting yer so called facts on these threads.
Now this latest bullsh*t table of stats like I said is impossible to quantify which more than raises doubts as to its authenticity so the only conclusions I can come to is the Gov is lying or the web page is false.
Either options has its merits but this time I am going with the false web page.
Can you explain how it is you can find the right web page at the right time sometimes only seconds after the story breaks????
137

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:27:17
196

How do you know its a gov web page??
138

,

23/03/2008 20:27:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
139

HEN BROON 5,

23/03/2008 20:28:03
The election win on the 3rd. of May 2007 was spectacular when you consider that the media in Scotland was at the time 100% owned and manipulated by the unionist cause. It has rattled the teeth of westminster and so we will continue to do until independence day which is not very far of.

Just another example of a Liebour liar caught by the short and curlies.


http://tinyurl.com/237cf8
140

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 20:28:41
200. erm ".gov.uk" is a government website I think.
141

HEN BROON 5,

23/03/2008 20:28:42
Tried for 200 the above from the Mcleish thread.
142

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:29:26
199

Tut Tut your not answering Spook the entire debate was originated by you was it not?? ref post 10!!
143

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:30:21
203

So is your post a gov uk post because you typed ".gov.uk" ?????
144

Nikostratos,

23/03/2008 20:33:28
#183 The Spook in Leith,

This is you at play..........


http://my.break.com/content/view.aspx?ContentID=463231
145

HEN BROON 5,

23/03/2008 20:33:28
193
AM2,
Glasgow,UK 23/03/2008 20:18:39


The opinion that you are a fake and a troll A LIAR and a fanatic are shared by many it seems as no one has a good word to say in your support, (morphs to English Voice to offer support,) your reputation has spread far and wide you are a legend in your own lunch time, sorry are you feeling bullied again.

ALBA GU BRATH.
146

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 20:33:29
206. erm, no, but webistes ending in gov.uk are UK gov ones
147

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:35:32
207

No it says its hosted on a Gov domain on the WEB PAGE!!!

No you could have fabricated it anytime before you posted at 10.

"The ASHE (Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings) analyses have been being published for over a decade."

Really so where are the web pages for the other 9 years??

148

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 20:36:31
211. "formidable debtor" ? In arrears again?

149

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:39:41
210

Would that be "gov.uk" or "GOV.uk" or Gov.uK or gOv.Uk or goV.uK etc ken??
150

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 20:42:40
215 - erm, small case :
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/
151

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:44:56
210

Besides how do you know AM2 doesnt actually work for the Government?? you have to agree he is not an ordinary everyday run of the mill posting slob like the rest of us is he???
152

Stefania Alvarez,

23/03/2008 20:45:14
Ayrshire Scot ... I was not being serious ... merely picking up on what I thought was a humourous statement you were making !!!
153

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 20:46:24
219, hey I wasn't being serious either, just having a wee laugh, we all know that Carol Voderman doesn;t wear knickers
154

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:47:57
221

Why????
155

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 23/03/2008 20:49:07
This smacks of a desperate measure - but then these might well be desparate times. So what is the answer to curb binge drinking?
156

Stefania Alvarez,

23/03/2008 20:49:58
Surely the point is ...
this so-called government which Alex Salmond finds himself in charge of will not eradicate Scotland (or Britain's) binge-drinking culture by raising the price of booze.

The Hollyrood parliament is just 'mischief making' as per usual.

Time it was scrapped.

If Scots want real independence ... make it so !!!
157

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:56:00
226

So what???
158

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 20:57:27
228

You engineered the debate it didnt have to be with spook it could have been with anybody.
159

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:00:27
228

Who says its a GOVERNMENT SITE?????? and where are the lists for the other 9 years?? all you have is an EXCEL SHEET dated for 2006 where is last years?? My 12 year old son could create an Excel spreadsheet and call it anything.
160

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 21:02:57
228, 232 - now what was all this hoo-ha about?
161

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:04:07
233

Can ye no read??
162

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 21:06:58
234, if I couldn't, that would be a rather rhetorical question you just posted, would it not?
163

HEN BROON 5,

23/03/2008 21:13:33
KING BILLY LIAR.

"You actually said: "year on year for the past 15 years at least we have seen the SNP vote steadily increasing until they made the break through they were never supposed to make."


OK play it your way. Now which party is The Scottish Government, ah yes it is indeed the SNP.

Conclusion: An increase to break through point, I am content with that. And you as a unionist fanatic are not. You lose.


221
AM2,
Glasgow,UK 23/03/2008 20:47:01 Your, http://archive.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/e-government/resources/domain-name/domain-names.asp
would be,
http://tinyurl.com/ysljlw


Much neater with http://tinyurl.com/create.php


Just trying to be helpful.


The we can look at a collection of unionist liars in action.
http://tinyurl.com/yrea2p
http://tinyurl.com/yse4am
http://tinyurl.com/yvpu8g
http://tinyurl.com/25a3gb
http://tinyurl.com/246ktz
http://tinyurl.com/342mwg
http://tinyurl.com/2stqbf


ALBA GU BRATH
164

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:19:05
AM2

If I am wrong and your right then that means that you have googled the internet found the excel sheet (What did you google to find it by the way)?? extrapolated the necessary data from it typed it out and posted it and all between posts 130 and 141
and at the same time managed to post and argue on other threads. is that right????
165

Eve,

23/03/2008 21:19:21
#141 AM2: How do you know that's the average wage per week were 2years ago!!

Yer figure for S.Lanarkshire areas are wrong cause you get paid a lot more in all parts Glasgow to do the same job. I guess that's why so many people in S.Larnarkshire travel in to Glasgow for work.

Believe me Lanarkshire both North and South areas pay a lot less than other area. Both have large saport for the Labour party who get elected no matter what they do, even when it detramental to them selfs.
166

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:26:03
240 AM2

And while yer trying to wriggle out of that one maybe you can explain why ASHE has created this website in this manner with only this excel sheet who is it for??? its in the public domain so is it for the public?? it doesnt even explain what it is who its for what it represents nobody looking at it would know what it means. Its just floating in cyberspace without a single reference.
167

Eve,

Scotland 23/03/2008 21:26:14
#153 AM2: Waho if that was true!!

AM2 I really did think that you knew that most Scots (in Scotland) are on low wages.

Acording to the way yer way of think the SNP will win the next election and steal loads of seats form the Labour party. You must be shaking in fear at the prospects.
168

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:27:07
243

BULLSH*T ya lying troll!!!
169

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:29:30
243

You loaded the excel sheet from yer hard drive?????
So it did originate from you and not the Government at all???
170

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:32:19
249

From your HARDDRIVE?????
171

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:34:30
250

So you downloaded the excel sheet and then manufactured the debate in order to present it????
172

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:37:42
253

Nailed ye ya f*cking lying troll.
173

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:47:01
257

Very thin ice?? You created the f*cking excel web sheet yersell you then engineered the arguement about wages and SNP supporters low earning on a thread about supermarkets selling booze just to present data you extrapolated from it in order to support yer stupid argument.
Yer simply no right in the f*cking heid.
174

Eve,

Scotland 23/03/2008 21:51:02
#247 AM2: I know of the Office of National sats, BUT there no the only people who do/ publish research.

Why should I disclose my subject, it's very broad a folk who are NOT in one of the indursaies I can work in get what my degree is about wroung.

Though one thing I have learnt over the years is that you can get research to back up any thing. I've found in the past written evedence that the moon is made of cheese (it dosnae make it ture, BUT there is research out there that proves it!!)

When doing rearch you normal start of with a hypothenes which you either prove or disprove. It's not imposible or unheard of to acidently or inpurpose put your bisam in to a pisce of research.
175

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:52:47
259

from yer post 243:

"No, I simply loaded the Excel sheet from my hard drive and used a fresh Excel sheet and Word to capitalise the Glasgow bits, format and sort it. Took about three minutes."

From yer post 250:

I had downloaded it before! This isn't the first time salaries have been referenced in a debate here. You're really grasping at straws now!

Hang myself out to dry indeed!!
176

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 21:52:59
259 Have you been puting your bisam into the Office of Nation Statistic?

The debate tomight is certainly of a certain quality
177

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 21:54:36
260. Eve, not to be a pedant, but exacting research would start from a null hypothesis and set out to disprove that, to avoid bias and bisam insertion (i.e the moon is not made of cheese, or drug x has no more than a plabo effect)

What type of cheese was it made of by the way?
178

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 21:57:12
264 - that was placebo, I seem unable to type for some reason. 263, "bisam insertion" re 260.
179

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 21:58:03
AM2

Yer hung drawn and quartered and I couldnt have done it without yer help.
180

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 22:03:12
267

Thats the link to this f*cking thread copied and pasted again tube! Yer trolling status is secure nae need to label it.
181

Eve,

Scotland 23/03/2008 22:08:44
#249 AM2: The average weekly wage in Scotland is £346.90 a week, Aye right, it be braw if they were BUT that's NOT the case. Most people in Scotland make less than £15,000 and it's NOT about seeing Scots in a negative light or being incapable.

I believe that most Scots are very capable (in most case they aren't given the opportunities that they need, in Scotland), and are just under paid for the work that they do.

I've lost count of the many people I have met recently who are on min wage or just above. Which if you work 37hours on min wage £204.24 a week, that's more than £100 less than the average wage you say.

I also frequently do job searches so I can assure you the only jobs with those wages in Scotland are Managerial post or post looking for at least 2years experience & a degree. Most jobs I see advertised are about 10,000-12,500.

You telling me that all the decent paid jobs are just already taken. Thoes figures are no acurate.

I've told you this before, In my industry if I wanted better wages I'd have to leave Scotland. All the decent jobs o do with my degree are in London (BUT I don't want to leave Scotland). Oh a jobs you do get in Scotland compare this way to England and this includes a job I saw in Carlie:
i.e.
Scotland £12,000 per year England £15,000
Scotland £15,000- £18,000 England £18,000-22,000
182

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 22:13:15
270

See 268 in fact see all of my posts on the subject up to now.

You make up statistics and data sheets post them on the web and then engineer arguments in order to present them to back up any point you wish to make in order to wind people up who choose to post comments and debates on a news thread.

Who in their right f*cking mind would do something like that??
183

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 22:13:46
272. Cunning, bisamal pre-insertion.
184

Enster Buddy,

Anstruther 23/03/2008 22:14:52
I seem to remember reading somewhere recently, that the English have as large, if not larger alcohol problem than the Scots! In the article it pointed to the winebar lunches, with the amount of wine etc., consumed during lunchtime, and the condition some were returning to work in, followed by the drinkies before returning home.
I suppose since these were supposedly upper class, middle, & upper management & ENGLISH, excludes them from inclusion in this discussion! I wonder how much the new taxation will affect them? Will it really change them? I think not! All this is aimed at, is to rake in more cash so government officials can screw more expenses. That means that they can get their snouts deeper into their booze, at cheap rates in the westminster bars. And, at the same time do away with jobs for the workers in Scotland!
185

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 22:18:01
272

Again!!

You make up statistics and data sheets post them on the web and then engineer arguments in order to present them to back up any point you wish to make in order to wind people up who choose to post comments and debates on a news thread.

Who in their right f*cking mind would do something like that??
186

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 22:18:08
278. Not to forget the possible insertion of bisam.
187

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 22:19:07
278

See 273 and 279
188

Eve,

Scotland, Roll on Independence 23/03/2008 22:21:57
#261 AM2: You don't appear to understand the concept of research.

Have you done a Pisces of research in the past? I did well on my hon project, and one of the 1st things I learnt about research is that you can find information, facts and figures to prove just about anything.

To suggest that I don't understand the word prove is radicalise. It is possible to prove a point BUT to also be wrong!!! (I believe it happens all the time in politics)

Am squared I'm worried about you, you appear trapped in a box or something. Do you NOT know how to think outside of the box? Is there something I could do to help you?


189

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 22:22:30
278

Yes and apparently you agree with me

243 AM2
"No, I simply loaded the Excel sheet from my hard drive and used a fresh Excel sheet and Word to capitalise the Glasgow bits, format and sort it. Took about three minutes."
190

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 22:24:01
282. AM2 faces a fishy pincer movement
191

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 22:28:47
285

Why?? Proves jack sh*t!!
I have your post at 243 what else is needed???
192

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 22:32:49
287

243 AM2

I simply loaded the Excel sheet from my hard drive and used a fresh Excel sheet and Word to capitalise the Glasgow bits, format and sort it. Took about three minutes."

Will I be required to cut and paste this again do you think???

193

Eve,

Scotland 23/03/2008 22:33:22
#264 Ayrshire Scot™: I know how to conduct a pise of research!!

I don't recall sighting current knowledge in the hypothesise. BUT my point was you set out to prove or disprove something in general term. A smart un bias person would look at a wide range of views as many as they can find on the subject.

BUT sometimes this doesn't happen and biasm gets in the way of research. When interviewing people their is a chance that you pursue them to answer in certain ways. I've seen interviews have multi choices questions with number 1-5 or a-e, that apparently can make the person being interview pick number 1 or a because they think it's the answer the research wants from them.
194

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 22:35:45
290. Eve, indeed. Randomisation of choice order is important as is use of neutral descriptors when identifying choices in a survey.

195

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 22:36:09
288

You didnt say you downloaded it you said you LOADED THE EXCEL SHEET FROM MY HARD DRIVE.

and again so there is no misunderstanding

LOADED THE EXCEL SHEET FROM MY HARD DRIVE.

REFERENCE POST 243
196

Eve,

Scotland 23/03/2008 22:36:27
#276 AM2: Because I job search reguraly?


Do you job search reguarly? Cause if you do I'd like to know where!

Cause I can't see many jobs which pay more than £12,000.
197

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 22:39:42
294. This is not the strongest proof about median earnings.
198

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 22:45:24
296

So here we are again lets put your statement in its full context so there are no misunderstandings shall we:

I asked you at post 240

"AM2

If I am wrong and your right then that means that you have googled the internet found the excel sheet (What did you google to find it by the way)?? extrapolated the necessary data from it typed it out and posted it and all between posts 130 and 141
and at the same time managed to post and argue on other threads. is that right????"

Whereby you replied at post 243

"#240 FOtC

No, I simply loaded the Excel sheet from my hard drive and used a fresh Excel sheet and Word to capitalise the Glasgow bits, format and sort it. Took about three minutes.

I had saved the web URL within the sheet itself so I could reference it.

Not exactly brain surgery."

Still enjoying it???



199

Eve,

Scotland 23/03/2008 22:47:11
#291 AM2: That's NOT the political meaning of the word!!!!

I'm sorry I can't help BUT think out of the boxes. It's a natural gift.

I like to question (Analise) things and come to my own conclusion. NOT one that someone else tells me.

I've been query the written word, since I was really quite young and I'm NOT about to stop because you can quote the dictionary.

P.S. Wrong end of the stick,(he, he he) their is no such thing as a right end of a stick, so how can there be a wrong end.
200

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 22:51:08
296

Hud on a minute you now claim you have had this sitting on yer hard drive since sept 2007 and you have saved it for 6 months in order to engineer an argument relevant to the data on a thread with no relevance to the argument you wish to make???

Is that what we are supposed to believe???
201

Eve,

Scotland 23/03/2008 22:53:23
#207, AM2: Again Where do you job search?

Theres never more than a couple of jobs in the news papers I look for jobs which have a salary of £60,000 +.

If thats really yer salary then where on earth do you get the time to comment on thesee boards, so oftan as you do.

I do know people you know, few earn more than £15,000 and there not all recent graduates.

And as a restent raduate I should be applying for jobs about £15,000-20,000 a year, well thats what the carrer services said.
202

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 22:54:28
302. In the intersests of keeping the thread readable, given that (a) the website AM2 has linked to is government one (2) the subject was first raised by Spook, and (3) the info about median income is verifiable on other sources and matches, we can conclude AM2 is correct here. There is little purpose arguing black is white, it makes the thread frustrating for all
203

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 22:56:50
306

the subject was first raised by AM2 at post 10 look again!!! read the thread and tell me you dont think he twisting and squirming and tripping over his own lies.
204

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 23:00:28
307

Which post are you referring to???
205

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:00:45
308. The issue of pay in Glasgow was first raised by Spook, by the links detail earnings by area in Scotland and are reliable.

Why AM2 introduced the point about average earnings of SNP voters in relation to kurbing binge drinking does seem perverse and irrelevant, probably provocative and ultimately irrelevant to strategies to do something about Scotland's health record, why at least the SNP are doing by exploring all avenues on the fight against unhealthy drinking.

I don't agree with the MacCaskill pricing proposals.
206

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:01:08
312. "kurbing" oh dear
207

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 23:03:02
307

Not post 22 by any chance the one where the link is still blue and can be accessed directly by clicking onto it without having to cut and paste it into the search window. which indicates that that link has just been added.

gov.uk my a*se!!!
208

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:04:44
314 The link is still blue as it on the old version of the Scotsman site I think - it had active links
209

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 23:05:13
312

post 10 AM2

The average SNP voter is lower paid than a voter for any other party.

Kenny's heart's in the right place, but he's no electoral strategist! LOL.

210

subrosa,

23/03/2008 23:05:52
Regarding SNP supporters having the lowest income, there must be many pensioners around Perthshire who aren't declaring that's all I can say. Don't blame them either. We can't have AM2 and his fellow unionists thinking the masses of SNP voters in this SNP constituency are anything less than unskilled or unemployed can we?
211

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 23:06:03
315

But its the only one on the thread why arent the others blue and accessible????
212

subrosa,

23/03/2008 23:06:09
ooops anything more it should read
213

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:08:09
316 I read it. The median income of SNP voters may be slightly lower than other parties. So what?

AM2 was clearly being provocative and irrelevant. The median income of SNP voters has nothing to do with binge drinking and strategies to reduce it.
214

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 23:09:23
Ayrshire Scot

Arent you just a wee bitty suspicious yet????
How did oor wee troll manage to paste that shortcut onto that old Scotsman thread???
215

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:10:10
318 yes they are - check post 53
216

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:11:22
321. The other links on that thread are active as well as far as I can see.
217

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:11:47
324 Why is it important?
218

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 23:12:03
AM2

How did ye manage to get that brand new link onto the old Scotsman web site just now???
219

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:13:05
323 I am unclear as to why the fact the SNP voters have a slightly lower median income ve Labour or the Lib Dems is an awkward truth.
220

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 23:13:34
325

No they are not why are you telling porkies??
221

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:13:39
328 - he didnt. Check post 53 and further down the same thread. All old Scotsman threads still have active links.
222

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:15:54
331. Oh jeez - post 53 and post 77 on that thread have active links in blue.
223

Eve,

Scotland 23/03/2008 23:20:08
#305 AM2: I'm sorry, don't think you understand. I querry the written word as a second insteic you cannae tell me when I've said enought.

Proff can be faked. It's be faked in politics in the past in numeruos occasions. You just disagree with me because the fake proff has been used to back up the union in the past.

The Finacal Black Hole theroy was back up by fake proff!

224

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:21:25
336. Probably. Must say, was impressed with the low cunning of you infiltrating the Northamps Evening News in advance. Spook will do some Nat mojo to counter it though for next time.
225

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 23:21:29
AM2

None of the links point to the spreadsheet nor reference ASHE what was the point behind that troll??
226

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 23:24:53
296

Hud on a minute you now claim you have had this sitting on yer hard drive since sept 2007 and you have saved it for 6 months in order to engineer an argument relevant to the data on a thread with no relevance to the argument you wish to make???

Is that what we are supposed to believe???

In case you missed it the first time.
227

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:26:09
340. Very desirable. Expensive house price wise though (South Beach, Bentick Drive and Southwoods in Troon are somehwhat locally inflated vs others, due to the properties and location), some very nice properties with sea views on one side (of South Beach itslef). Good schools (Marr college I think still very highly ranked). Not much neddishness or ASBO behaviour in Troon, thankfully.
228

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:27:47
341. I think you are missing the argument. Spook mentioned Labour areas as being poor, AM2 referenced the data, having previously used it in Sept 07 for a similar discussion. He checked it off a saved version on his hard drive - the actual data came from the links he provided, which indeed check out.
229

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 23:31:17
345

Ah not Ayrshire Scot at all then AM2 posting to himself again. should have seen it earlier though my fault.
230

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:32:50
346 Oh b-jeezus. No, Ayrshire Scot.
231

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 23:35:31
346 LOL. God, I hope I am not going up against the wall when the revolution comes now as well?

The weblinks check out, the data quoted is accurate. It is simply no good arguing on here by putting fingers in ears, and flatly refusing to accept facts if they proven repeatedly - it makes the thread unreadabale and rather frustrating.
232

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 23:42:02
349 AM2

Wow how many personalities does it take to post like that?? god I hope for you sake your doing this professionally and not for yer own sense of "fun".
233

Queen D,

Glasgow 24/03/2008 08:40:21
His crazy ideas, as you say ,are also being done by Westminster.
234

Wee Babs,

Edinburgh 24/03/2008 14:06:16
When drink's in wit's oot. Good for the SNP. We must stamp out this shocking drink culture in Scotland. Binge drinking must stop. Apart from ruining one's health it is anti social. We Scots must enjoy life without relying solely on drink. I love wine and beer but surely all in moderation.
235

Eve,

Scotland 24/03/2008 20:34:45
#351 The Spook in Leith: What web site is that!

I've been a big fan of Mr Happy, ever since he said "Glasgow smiles better miles better" back in 1988.
236

"Scotty",

24/03/2008 21:38:41
Fine and well Number 354; you pay the higher prices being the responsible drinker you are.
KENNY; This stinks and will only hurt the people who do drink responsibly. This is NOT the way to curb folk who insist on getting legless, no matter what. And, for underage drinkers, this is where the parenting comes in, or it should.
237

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 30/03/2008 04:14:29
O dear, I've just spent £6.98 for a special supermarket offer on the Malbec grape. I reckon a reasonable taxation (as found on continental Europe) would cost this no more than £6. Taxation, itself, in the UK system is largely wasted and until the Scottish Nation prints and regulates its own currency, good and useful work doesn't get done.
238

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 30/03/2008 05:11:08
Well its well seeing, how bad the drink problem is here in Scotland. Brown refuses Referendum on Europe but the drink issue brings out 358 posts.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you are merely a social drinker, wouldnt you put the interests of the community ahead of you paying a bit more. Any of you on this forum have a serious drink problem already, if a minimum price is put on Tesco who happen to be big Labour Party donors.

Getting Pissed and needing the high of drugs are simply a result of a rotten society who are so badly educated that they think they need to hit the highlights, to escape the misery of the reality of life. Well as you all know there is only one way to escape the drudgery, if you are not willing to take your life and future into your own hands.

Everytime you have a drink in front of your kids, you teach them that alcohol abuse is all right, it makes them adults to drink. Everytime you get into a screaming match with others, you teach them to be aggressive. Everytime you abuse your husband or wife you teach them they dont need to respect others, etc etc etc.

The bottom line is you lot need to take responsability on board and admit you could be a better example to your kids.

My Boys dont drink because they dont like it. Yes they will have a social drink, but that may be every few months and on special occasions. They were never raised in a house that had alcohol in it. They dont take drugs because they are into so many social and sporting situations and have clear targets they wish to achieve. They dont bully people and do not vandalise the community they live in. There are many many Scottish Youth who dont fall into the trap of trying to escape through booze, drugs and violence. You lot need to do the same in your own wee world, you might actually like it and will be fitter, richer and happier because it brings you the real high of enjoying what you have around you.

And by the way, NO I am not some religious nutter, I just decid
239

Mikey,

30/03/2008 09:16:14
We have the same problem in Scotland as we have in England, Wales and Ireland. This is not a purely Scottish thing! Can anyone explain to me, why Germany and Denmark where, in many cases beer is cheaper than water, do not have the extent of the alcohol problem we have?

This is a social problem, not a financial one. We have mystified alcohol over the years by not allowing kids in pubs and setting a random drinking age, inviting our kids to go mental as soon as they can get served in a pub.

We have allowed parenting to degenerate to the extent that a lot of kids nowadays have more street sense than common sense! Until we address this, the alcohol problem will grow.

I do however, feel that this has been blown out of all proportion! Sure, we have drunk kids, we did in my teens also, but in order to combat this problem, we must be creative. We're approaching the situation where we're banning our kids from indulging in smoking, drinking and sex. What next?

We need to get a grip here. I'm sorry to say it, but I'm against this policy of increasing alcohol prices. The words sledgehammer and nut come to mind. We need to tackle the bad parents and the 'hardman' culture that pervades in Scotland. Government action on supermarkets will not do this!
240

Spondoolicks,

location location 30/03/2008 10:17:08
There has to be some action over very cheap booze.

My local Tesco was binning out large packs of tennants the other day at around £8 a box.

Consequently there were people heading out of the supermarket on a Friday night with over a hundred large cans of alcohol.

In the surrounding streets young and not so young people lugging home huge cases of beer.

So that's homes stacked with booze - and you wonder how kids get a hold of it??

Fast forward to next morning - yup, local park strewn with empty cans of tennants and the torn-up outer-boxes. So that's another night of large-scale underage drinking (and the resulting misery it causes.)

Alcohol is NOT a staple of our diet, it's not meant to be like the milk in your tea - it's a legal recreational drug that when taken regularly enough can destroy and even end lives.

Wake-up folks. The party's over
241

Haleakelaman,

St.Andrews 04/05/2008 08:23:11
So how do you balance the huge tax finances paid by diageo all to the benefit of the coffers and effectively trying to close down diageo?

 

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