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Ministers reject police plan for DNA database

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Published Date: 24 February 2008
MINISTERS have ruled out a DNA database of everyone arrested in Scotland, putting themselves at loggerheads with the country's police chiefs.
The Association of Chief Police Officers of Scotland (ACPOS) wants the SNP Government to fall in line with England and Wales, where anyone who is arrested has to provide a forensic sample.

But Justice Minister Kenny MacAskill has ruled this out, c
laiming it would be an infringement of the public's human rights.

The only possibility of an expansion to the rules governing retaining DNA samples in Scotland may see unconvicted sex offenders having their profiles kept, but ACPOS wants a much wider remit.

However, MacAskill said he did not believe there would be benefits from any extension. The Justice Minister said: "While we rightly seek to protect the public from criminals, our citizens must also be protected from an over-intrusive state. Our Government has already made clear that we do not support the blanket retention of all forensic information taken from innocent people. We are not persuaded, for example, that it would generally be right for the police to keep fingerprints and DNA samples from everyone who is detained but not eventually convicted, or even prosecuted."

At present, anyone who has their DNA taken as part of a police inquiry in Scotland – presently around 4,000 people-a-month – automatically has it removed if they are not convicted.

The only exceptions are for individuals who remain part of an ongoing police inquiry. However, in extreme circumstances, a person who has been charged with a violent or sexual offence but not found guilty can have their details held for up to three years, after which a sheriff has to rule if that time period can be extended.

But senior Scottish detectives remain convinced if they had access to an English-style database their own clear-up rates would be much higher and the public would be safer.

The subject of retaining DNA profiles returned to the headlines last week following the convictions of two high-profile murders.

Both Steve Wright, the so-called 'Suffolk Strangler' who was found guilty of murdering five prostitutes and Mark Dixie, jailed for life for killing Sally-Anne Bowman were identified through DNA samples taken during inquiries into previous, unrelated offences.

Following the two cases, a senior Metropolitan Police officer said he believed a national database containing the DNA of every adult in the UK would help cut serious crime.

But whilst Whitehall has ruled out any such move, police forces in both England and Wales do have access to a forensic library of 4.5 million potential suspects with almost everyone who is arrested being forced to provide a sample. And it is this which the ACPOS would like to see replicated north of the border.

A police source said: "If you can press a button and get an immediate answer to your inquiry, then you would obviously want that.

"The expanded database would enable us to catch more criminals but the civil liberties of everyone, including thugs, burglars and murderers would, unfortunately, appear to be more important than maintaining public safety these days."

Yesterday, an ACPOS spokesman said: "Our position is that we should move into line, after discussion with Scottish Government with… England and Wales and DNA samples should be taken and retained under strict guidelines from offenders.

"We are in favour of mirroring any legislation in the UK Parliament allowing the taking and retention of DNA samples from persons arrested for an offence as well as for registered sex offenders, whose profiles are not currently held.

"Such samples, at present, can be taken upon arrest for a period of one month following the date of conviction."



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  • Last Updated: 23 February 2008 6:52 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Law and Order
 
1

Aýrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 00:46:04
This is a disaster.

Everybody should have their DNA registered at birth.

This would lead to an increase in the number of crimes that would be solved.

More importantly, imagine the drop in the number of rape cases. Anybody thinking about conducting such a reprehensible crime would know that they would get caught. So many of them would be unlikely to do it in the first place.
2

Kenny A,

24/02/2008 02:45:16
1~ Totaly correct. If you do nothing wrong, nothing to fear. DNA regristration at birth also could help in other areas apart from crime. Organ doners etc, could be identified a lot more speedily.

Still think Kenny MacAskill has a mixed up wiew of life with his obsessive his anti drink carry on, when he could actualy have done something positive for a change.
3

Angus Macoatup,

24/02/2008 02:47:44
It can,t happen;
Look at it like this Adult population of the UK is 63Million
Time taken to obtain 1 DNA sample = 15 mins
To sample the current population it would take
15.75 Million man hours.
This projection assumes that no one else is born or dies.
4

Angus Macoatup,

24/02/2008 03:05:10
So and now to take the argument to the next level..........
Suppose that from today we sample and register the DNA of every new born child , how long will it be before we identifiy the criminal gene,the gay gene,the why did you not pay your council tax gene,the why do you want self determination gene.
To call for a National DNA data base is lending support for a new Eugenic movement
5

Richardinho,

24/02/2008 04:01:16
Why not have a special tracer put into you so the state can monitor your movements 24 hours. After all if you've got nothing to hide, whey should you object?

MacKaskil is right. We should resist over intervention by the state.
6

Andrew D,

24/02/2008 04:09:40
Scary world where just being arrested of something could see you on a DNA register for the rest of your life.

By all means take DNA to check against a record of DNA taken at crime scenes if needed but if that person doesn't match and isn't found guilty of whatever they were arrested for then get rid of it.

That comment from a police spokesman is a load of RUBBISH about regarding the civil liberties of murderers and burglars as more important! What poppycock! It's regarding the civil liberties of people who are NOT CONVICTED of any crime as more important.

Unbelievable thing for someone connected to the police to say. Guilty until proven innocent apparently.
7

Angus Macoatup,

24/02/2008 04:22:24
#6 Andrew
That is what happens in Scotland.......... no conviction sample is binned.......where as in the cradle of Democracy (AKA England) the sample is kept on file sin dei...
8

Mr A Roy,

24/02/2008 04:28:41
Do you want this to happen to you ?

Arrested, caged and DNA tested - for using MP3
A commuter was arrested at gunpoint and had his DNA and fingerprints taken simply for listening to his MP3 player while waiting for a bus.

Darren Nixon was surrounded by armed police after his music player was mistaken for a gun.

When a passer-by saw the 28-year-old get out his black Philips machine to change tracks, she panicked and dialled 999
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=98741&in_page_id=34
9

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 24/02/2008 05:33:53
Kenny you've got this one wrong.Take DNA when you are arrested for any crime, after all if you do nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about.
10

An Beal Bacht,

24/02/2008 07:54:31
The old mantra of the totalitarians in our midst:
"If you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about."

Um - how about my civil liberties? I'm sure as hell worried about them!

Chippin away - chippin away!

Now they want you to provide 19 pieces of information to take a train ride - including your 'phone number and credit card information (even when paying cash).

chippin away! Aye - the multicultural dividend.
11

Andrew D,

BNE 24/02/2008 10:43:33
If you have done nothing wrong then you SHOULD have nothing to fear and you SHOULD NOT be treated as if you HAVE done something wrong.

My DNA is mine, if I've done nothing wrong then *I* want to decide who gets it. If anyone else doesn't care that is your issue; go to the police and tell them to take yours but don't try and speak for me and my rights.
12

Miss H,

24/02/2008 11:44:24
I can't believe the naivety of some of these comments.

There is no such thing as a secure national database. Don't you guys read the news?

I think the current position is correct. Retain the DNA samples of people who have been arrested for sexual or violent crimes but leave it at that. Retaining DNA samples for everyone who has ever been arrested, never mind for the whole population, would just increase the chances of errors. And if you increase the number of errors occuring you undermine the faith of juries in DNA evidence and actually increase the likelihood of sexual and violent offenders not being convicted.
13

Anthony,

Glasgow 24/02/2008 14:06:33
Whether you think it's a good idea or a bad one, (and I incline towards the latter), it's wrong for the police to be using their resources and powers in this way. Their supposed to be a law enforcement arm of the executive; not a campaigning or pressure group. This is becoming a habit, and it's constitutionally dangerous wrong and undemocratic. Crown servants should not be advancing political causes 'on-the-job'. Especially ones as powerful as the police.
14

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 24/02/2008 14:21:28
Over the last few years 'the police' have advocated everything from legalisation of all recreational drugs, to locking people up without charge for extended periods. They should shut-up and get on with the job. I'll be keeping my DNA to myself, thank you.
15

Miss Jean Brodie,

24/02/2008 18:27:26
Just say no to DNA registers - competence of government and it’s forces safeguarding information has been well displayed last year.

I would not trust the police with my life - why then with my DNA ?
16

truthsleuth,

South of the Border 24/02/2008 19:38:50
In principle I support however we can only guarantee that policeman and governments are human and look what trouble they have caused since they inhabited earth.

DNA like fingerprints can only prove DNA and finger prints are at the scene of the crime.

They do not say how they got there or at what instant in time. The public have come to believe they are infallibe proof of guilt.
17

Eve,

Scotland 24/02/2008 21:00:29
#2 Kenny A: DNA can be found in places you've never visited in your life, for the 2 very simple reason:

1) Your hair contains your DNA, I know I molt hair ever where and it's NOT impossible to for other people that you pass in the street to pick up a hair sample and move it.

2) You touch an object and if it's NOT washed or any thing then you leave your DNA on the object. Which leads me on to something that a DNA expert said to a TV presenter after shake his hand, he said: You will know take my DNA with you where ever you got to day until you wash yer hands.
18

I'mallymax,

Orwell's front room; smokin' 24/02/2008 21:44:42
Our government is working for us, the Scottish people.

"MacAskill said he did not believe there would be benefits from any extension. The Justice Minister said: "While we rightly seek to protect the public from criminals, our citizens must also be protected from an over-intrusive state. Our Government has already made clear that we do not support the blanket retention of all forensic information taken from innocent people. We are not persuaded, for example, that it would generally be right for the police to keep fingerprints and DNA samples from everyone who is detained but not eventually convicted, or even prosecuted."

Besides, there's no more sex-crimes in Scotland than there is anywhere else is the world per head per said crime/ratio. Scotland is not a depraved nation, rather it is an upwardly looking nation. The like of angiolini, her pet poodles the police, and the rest of the zero-tolerance elites have pounded us for years, now it's time we choose a government that's wise to the engerlish crown/westminister, and bring us back to the honourable nation we are.
Vote SNP for a better, fairer independent Scotland.
allymax.
19

IainGlasgow,

24/02/2008 22:05:30
Once we start keeping a record of everyone's DNA it will only be a matter of time before its used to exclude people from access to life insurance, health insurance, certain jobs and whatever else on the basis of having a genetic predisposition to heart disease, stoke, cancer, dementia or anything else. That would in turn lead to the emergence of a "genetic underclass". The whole idea reeks of Nazi Germany except with more sophisticated technology.
20

An Beal Bacht,

25/02/2008 05:22:16
Scotland needs a "Mission Statement".

 

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