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MP arrest row grows



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Published Date: 30 November 2008
THE Speaker of the House of Commons, Michael Martin, is preparing to make an emergency statement over the arrest of a Conservative MP for obtaining leaked official documents, amid warnings that the reputation of British democracy has been irreparably blackened by the affair.
Martin, who has been facing calls for his resignation over the row, is expected to make an unprecedented defence of his handling of the affair, following the detention last Thursday of Tory immigration spokesman Damian Green.

Green was held by police for nine hours, 11 days after the arrest of a junior Home Office official suspected of having leaked information to the Conservatives. MPs of all political parties have condemned the heavy handling of the affair by the police, warning that it will erode public confidence that their cases can be dealt with in private by MPs.

Conservative leader David Cameron last night called on Prime Minister Gordon Brown to join in the condemnation or face the charge of hypocrisy. Cameron said Brown had "made his career" in the 1980s when he regularly used Whitehall leaks to embarrass the government.

Martin is now under pressure to explain why the House authorities apparently allowed police to search Green's parliamentary office last week, from which they took files and documents as part of their inquiries. The Home Office has confirmed permission was granted by Commons chiefs before police entered the premises.

Officials yesterday continued to insist that ministers were not in any way involved in Green's arrest. The Prime Minister has stated that he and other ministers had "no prior knowledge" of the arrest.

However, Scotland on Sunday understands that Home Secretary Jacqui Smith had been informed by senior civil servants that the police had been brought in to investigate leaks at her department.

The Tories have laid down 50 questions for the Government, demanding to know the exact details of the Home Office leak inquiry which prompted the arrests in the first place. Green, pictured right, is now refusing to discuss the matter further. The row began after the Home Office ordered a leak inquiry after being embarrassed on several occasions in recent months by documents made public by Green. The Tories had been contacted by a party supporter working at the Home Office who wanted to pass on information.

In recent weeks, using the mole, Green has revealed illegal immigrants have been cleared to work as security guards at the House of Commons and the names of Labour MPs who opposed anti-terror laws.

Home Office permanent secretary Sir David Normington set up the inquiry and called in police to identify the source. On November 19, a 26-year-old junior official was arrested and suspended from duty.

Yesterday, officials confirmed ministers had been informed that the police had been called in. "Sir David told ministers that the police were now involved. But ministers were not informed about the arrests," said a Home Office spokesman.

The Home Office said that the Metropolitan Police informed Normington on Thursday that a search was to be conducted at Green's house and office.

Nine counter-terrorist officers – whose remit also includes breaches of official secrecy – subsequently detained Green at his home in Ashford, Kent, while another group searched his constituency and parliamentary office.

However, ministers insist they were not told about it.

Cameron said yesterday: "The Prime Minister has simply repeated that he 'had no prior knowledge' and this is 'a police matter'. Frankly, that's not good enough. The question is: does he think it is right for an MP who has apparently done nothing to breach our national security – and everything to inform the public of information they're entitled to know – to have his home and office searched by a dozen counter-terrorist police officers, his phone, BlackBerry and computers confiscated, and to be arrested and held for nine hours?"

Cameron also turned his fire on the Commons authorities for apparently "not thinking twice" about allowing officers to raid his immigration spokesman's office in parliament.

But Martin received the backing yesterday of former Father of the House and MP, Tam Dalyell, who himself was the recipient of leaked information in the 1980s about the sinking of the General Belgrano during the Falklands War.

Dalyell said: "Before people like (Liberal Democrat MP] Norman Baker and Douglas Carswell start scapegoating the Speaker, they would do well to wait to hear the statement which he will undoubtedly make to the House of Commons."

Meanwhile, Labour MPs insisted it was far-fetched to claim the Government had deliberately engineered Green's arrest, arguing that the creation of a "martyr" in Green was damaging Labour.

Glasgow South MP Tom Harris said: "There's no doubt this affair has caused Labour some serious political damage."

The affair has also sparked questions about the role of outgoing Metropolitan Police Commission Sir Ian Blair. He has complained about political interference from the Tories affecting his decision to resign.

Spilling the beans

The arrest of Damian Green has revived memories of political leaks.


Margaret Thatcher's press secretary, Bernard Ingham, was accused of complicity in the leaking of a letter from the Solicitor General designed to damage Michael Heseltine during the Westland affair.

No prosecutions were brought on that occasion, but two civil servants, Sarah Tisdall and Clive Ponting, were charged as a result of disclosing sensitive information about the arrival of cruise missiles on British soil, and the sinking of the Belgrano during the Falklands War respectively.

In the years leading up to the Second World War, the permanent secretary at the Foreign Office, Sir Robert Vansittart, was party to the leaking of information to, among others, Winston Churchill. This was aimed at undermining the appeasement policies of Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain.




The full article contains 955 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 29 November 2008 11:08 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 00:30:35
According to the Sunday Herald, a cross party group of back bench MP's are planning to delay the Queens' Speech by forcing a debate on the role of the Speaker. They are angered by his failure to prevent an ''attack on Parliamentary democracy'' by the Police.

So Martin may be the fall guy, I won't mourn his loss, but that doesn't deal with the fundamental issue of the misuse of anti terrorist legislation to silence political opposition.

2

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30/11/2008 00:33:08
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3

Sam the man the snp Fear most,

30/11/2008 00:35:06
Michael Martin should be the first to go over this, he is not fit for purpose and has a very bad record as MP for Glasgow Springburn, an area that needs a full time MP not one who is a full time speaker(worst ever), his job is to look after his area of Glasgow which so far he has not.



4

Fifi la Bonbon,

30/11/2008 00:35:07
It will be very interesting to hear Mr Martin's defence. He really ought to make sure he watches "The Devil's Wh**e" on channel 4 to get some tips on how the Speaker is supposed to behave. (I put the asterisks in because the comments feature is scared of the word **or**.")

Goodness knows if Mr Green did the things he's supposed to have done according to the cops. But it is becoming clear that the police have really overstepped themselves. The Times reports that they failed to clear the arrest with the Home Secretary or the DPP.

Now it's right that the Home Secretary shouldn't be able to interfere with an operational investigation into a politician, but she should be told, just as Boris Johnson was told and just as David Cameron waas told. Keeping her uninformed looks very much as if this was an attempt to make the government look bad. The chief officer of the Met is supposed to be a bit politically aware. and maybe he was, but not in a good way.

Observer 1 - no anti terrorist legislation was used - just Pace and English common law. And its also time that the press stopped routinely referring to "counter-terrorist officers" in this case. It is possible that the actual mole will be charged under the Official Secrets Act. This is always investigated by Special Branch, which in the Met was merged with counter-terrorist command.
5

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 00:35:48
2 - What is the lobby system for - to leak news. If Mr Green is guilty then Gordon Brown is guilty too, and needs to ask for hundreds of other offences to be taken into consideration. Labour's hypocrisy is astounding.
6

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 00:38:24
4 - that is not what has been reported in papers all over the UK. They report that anti terrorism legislation was used. If they are wrong then so am I, but it was nine officers from the anti terrorist unit who turned up at his house.
7

Fifi la Bonbon,

30/11/2008 00:38:57
Observer 1 - what hypocrisy? No Labour person who has expressed an opinion has said anything other than to condemn the arrest of M Green. It is plain that this has been sprung on the government by the Met. No charges have been laid and it was as much a surprise to the DPP as to anyone else.

8

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 00:41:58
7 ''It is plain that this has been sprung on the government by the Met''.

Is that the script then ? Pull my other leg, it's got bells on it.
9

Fifi la Bonbon,

30/11/2008 00:45:28
If "papers all over the UK" reported that anti terrorism legislation was used then "papers all over the UK" are wrong, although the Times and Telegraph seem to be well enough informed. The crime being investigated is conspiracy to commit misconduct in public office, which falls under common law. The CPS has a very good briefing on this for which you can search.

I explained earlier that the reason why officers from counter terrorism command took part was that the groupng includes the former Special Branch.

It is my view that the Met is out of control, and its actions are disctrediting the Labour government - I don't imagine that's an accident. I don't know if that's in anyone's script but it's what I think.
10

Sam the man the snp Fear most,

30/11/2008 00:46:20
Observer-Your legs not in pain after the march today, i see as always people got bused in from as far afield as London to get the numbers up.

No wonder people desert the unions as they are more interested in asylum scroungers/immigrants that the great British public.

Anyone looking for a good Union should join the Union on the BNP webpage.

Back to the story Observer you are blaming the Police for this, i blame Martin and others, i believe the Police had pressure put on them and would have had no choice but to go in heavy handed as a show.
11

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 00:52:35
10 I am in the house suffering from a cold. Bored out of my skull actually, I am not a good invalid. But thanks for your concern about my legs, they are fine thank you.

I am blaming whoever told the Police to take this action, it is ridiculous to suppose they did this unilaterally.
12

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 00:56:07
9 So we have wildcat action by the Met......let me see is this because Boris got Blair busted......no, don't think so. Try again. This has the reek of Stalinist control freakery.
13

Steve A.,

30/11/2008 01:00:30
What about the BBC's Robert Peston leaking the story that led to the run on the HBOS share price which ultimately could cause 40,000 jobs in Scotland .

I have no doubt that info came from liebour and he was their tool to deliver HBOS into the hands of Brown's favourite bank .

The hypocrisy is breath taking , whats next from this fascist government ?

Come back Maggie all is forgiven this liebour cabal make thatcher look like a liberal !
14

Colin R,

Beasden 30/11/2008 01:00:55
This was Ian Bliar's parting shot- the Met is Brown's KGB. Michael Martin is a working class undereducated biased thicko personfied so at least he has an excuse- Brown, Straw,Smith are manipulative swines.
Incidentally Labour's mouthpiece in Scotland, ie The Herald, has refused to allow me to comment on its so called new blog saying my URL is invalid-Labour censorship know's no bounds
15

Observer. 1,

30/11/2008 01:02:26
9 - does common law allow for your phone, bank statements, blackberry and computer files to be seized ?

Michael Howard said he found it ''astonishing'' that Jacquie Smith claims she didn't know.
16

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:02:32
Observer says:

"I am blaming whoever told the Police to take this action, it is ridiculous to suppose they did this unilaterally."

Jaqui (ID Cards) Smith is up to her neck in this - but no one in Zanu Labour does anything without running it apst the boss.
17

Fifi la Bonbon,

30/11/2008 01:04:36
Steve A, #13 - if you have evidence that a crime was committed then you have a responsibility to report it to the authorities. You won't, though, because you have no evidence. Just another sectarian post flinging mud on people you fancy to be your political opponent. A lie, in other words.
18

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:06:56
Sir Paul Stephenson, and Michael Martin will get minced for this. Smith and Broon are untouchable.
19

Fifi la Bonbon,

30/11/2008 01:07:42
Observer 1, #10 - yes, as far as I know officers with a search warrant have the power to search for and remove items they believe to be relevant. Mrs Green is a barrister and will undoubtedly have stopperd any illegal removal.

Michael Howard is right to find it astonishing that the Home Secretary was not informed by the Met.
20

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:07:53
Fifi yer a star turn hen - a right wee card.
21

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30/11/2008 01:10:11
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22

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 01:10:21
19 Off you go Fifi, you know as well as me that they stormed in and helped themselves to whatever they wanted. They used powers which were supposed to be to protect the security of the realm. Not silence opposition MP's.

23

Fifi la Bonbon,

30/11/2008 01:10:37
Scunnert #18 - certainly Sir Paul Stephenson needs to go. As far as Mr Martin is concerned - the jury's out, until Wednesday when Parliament returns.
24

john z,

edinburgh 30/11/2008 01:11:24
The Tories and Lib Dems are right to go at this in forensic detail. It stinks. Labour should be ashamed.

I simply do not believe either the homes secretary or Brown knew about this. If neither of them did know, then that is equally serious, and at the very least the home secretary should be sacked. Immediately.

Damien Green was doing what is expected of an opposition MP in a democracy, that is holding the government to account, and scrutinising their actions. Without that, there is no democracy.

It's not about party politics, it's about democracy. Do we really want MPs arrested for disagreeing with the government?????


This is going to run and run. It may eventually (not immediately) be the end of Brown.
25

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:11:40
No commenting on the Calman evidence tampering by labour. Wonder why?
26

Fifi la Bonbon,

30/11/2008 01:12:26
#21 - I don't suppose we can count on your vote for Labour at the next election, then? Perhaps I can offer you a tissue to wipe away the foam on your greasy chops.
27

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:12:48
23 Fifi la Bonbon, 30/11/2008 01:10:37

I thnink the timing of this is a smoking gun.
28

john z,

edinburgh 30/11/2008 01:14:28
Michael Martin will not be speaker by the end of this week. Anybody who knows the history of Parliament and its separation from state interference, knows he has to go.

Like I said this will dog Brown from now until the next election. It isn't going to go away.
29

Fifi la Bonbon,

30/11/2008 01:14:39
#22 - you will plainly believe whatever you want despite the facts.
30

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30/11/2008 01:15:39
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31

Observer. 1,

30/11/2008 01:15:41
25 There's nothing to say about the Calman Commission. They haven't done anything, they won't do anything. It's a vehicle for standing still, not going anywhere.
32

Fifi la Bonbon,

30/11/2008 01:17:18
#29 - I commend you on your good taste in reading Tom Harris MP's blog. Alwatys refreshing to read trenchant opinion and good common sense. Can't say the same about many of those who read and comment on it, though!
33

Observer. 1,

30/11/2008 01:17:28
30 I'll believe what the evidence tells me. It sure as hell doesn't tell me that this was a lone operation by the Met. If it was they would need to be disbanded.
34

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:18:40
Fifi - labour doesn't do facts - they do spin and innuendo.
35

Steve A.,

30/11/2008 01:19:26
#17 Fifi

"A lie " . Well well Fifi you have to judge people by their past history and politicians are no exception .

That's how i do it , what about you fifi ?

Your reference to me being sectarian is scurillous at best and in context to my post an absolute lie .
36

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:22:14
"Calman evidence 'was tampered with'

Published Date: 30 November 2008
By Tom Peterkin
Scottish Political Editor

THE commission examining new powers for Holyrood has "tampered with the evidence" to suit the Labour Party, one of its own economic advisers suggested last night."

Labour only knows one way to get things done. It's the nature of the beast.
37

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 01:23:47
Tom Harris is the same MP who defended racially profiled stop and search ''security'' operations in Scottish stations. Justified by anti terrorist legislation. He actually used his own constituents as human shields to try and justify the policy.
38

Colin R,

30/11/2008 01:24:25
#28 John Z I hope you are right but with Labour voting fodder being a brain dead herd I fear working class, undereducated, biased Michael Martin Borman will be kept in post by Labour's storm troopers
39

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:26:03
"Labour will win the next electio - the postal voters will see to that."

Dougie Alexander
40

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:28:20
"No-one believes for a second that the government didn't know about this latest abuse of counter-terrorism statutes, but even ministers didn't know that they should have condemned the police for a breach of parliamentary privilege."

McWhirter
41

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:29:49
43 The Spook in Leith, 30/11/2008 01:27:43

The only ice I want to see is in a tall glass of something tasty.
42

Christina, Aberdeen,

30/11/2008 01:30:47
"Calman evidence 'was tampered with'

BRING IT ON!
43

Fifi la Bonbon,

30/11/2008 01:33:01
#37 - sorry if I caused offence. Could you suggest a better synonym for "sectarian" to describe your mud flinging? The thesaurus suggests these alternatives - "bigoted, clannish, cliquish, dissident, doctrinaire, dogmatic, factional, fanatic, fanatical, hidebound, insular, limited, local, nonconforming, nonconformist, parochial, partisan, provincial, rigid, schismatic, skeptical, small-town, splinter."
44

Dark Lochnagar,

Symington 30/11/2008 01:33:31
You either believe Parliament is sacrosant or not. I believe that we cannot have Mr Plod rampaging through Westminster or Holyrood. The Queen needs some old tw@t in tights with a black stick to get in, and it's reputedly her parliament!
45

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:34:39
OH OH - things just got nasty for Broon and Co.:

Bugging scandal inside the Commons
Anger over Damian Green's arrest escalates over suspicion of security scandal inside Parliament

By Jane Merrick, Political Editor
Sunday, 30 November 2008

The House of Commons office of Damian Green, the Tories' immigration spokesman, is routinely swept for electronic bugging devices, along with other offices belonging to senior Conservatives, amid fears of covert monitoring, The Independent on Sunday has discovered.

Anger surrounding the shadow immigration minister's arrest last week escalated dramatically last night over suspicions of a major bugging scandal inside the Palace of Westminster.

tinyurl.com/56n82r
46

Steve A.,

30/11/2008 01:34:44
Looks like this terrorism storm suits fascist governments right down to the ground ! The only problem is that they use the counter measures against their own people.

If anything this lends credence to the people that believe all this terrorism is actually government sponsored terrorism and is the tool of the new world order to be used against the people .

I wonder how many people think a little bit differently after the arrest of a shadow front bench MP .

I know i do .
47

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:36:04
48 The Spook in Leith, 30/11/2008 01:33:08

You can bet that's one industrial dispute that will be settled pronto.
48

Fifi la Bonbon,

30/11/2008 01:37:33
#51 - you prove my point, that the only ones to benefit from this appalling event are the Tories (and their friends in the SNP) and the ones who are being made to look bad are the Labour government. As Marcus Tullius Cicero famously said, Cui Bono?
49

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:37:57
51 Steve A., 30/11/2008 01:34:44

They've been doing it for ages - Badder Meinhoff - Red Army Faction - aye, the politics of fear.
50

Observer. 1,

30/11/2008 01:38:12
47 You are showing your ignorance. Sectarianism is a word used to describe a schism - sects - forming between people who share a fundamental belief. Scottish nationalists and British unionists do not share a fundamental belief, so your use of the word sectarian was wholly inappropriate and you should withdraw it.
51

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:40:33
53 The Spook in Leith, 30/11/2008 01:36:50

Ah've got a wee glass of Amaretto going. The wine is chilling right now - should be good in a few more minutes. Hope you enjoyed the hot dog.
52

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 01:40:50
54 Your team made a mistake. A big one. Just deal with it - I am a nationalist, but I wouldn't spit down a Tories throat if their belly was on fire.
53

Cynicus in Exile,

30/11/2008 01:41:24
"The Tories had been contacted by a party supporter working at the Home Office who wanted to pass on information."-Report

If so, then Green is in an honourable tradition, politics notwithstanding, of using information from a whistle-blower to embarrass the government. If, however, as is suggested credibly elsewhere ("no money changed hands" -Tory spokesman) Green pro-actively solicited information on specific issues then he deserves deep doo-dah.

Before rushing to judgment we do well to heed Tam Dalyell -a serial and veteran embarrasser of governments of all stripes: wait for the Speaker's statement.

However, as others note, the main cause for concern here is what we saw in the cases, inter alia, of Walter Wolfgang and Icelandic Banks: the abuse of the state's panoply of anti-terrorism legislation and personnel. If, as reported, such officers were used in the arrest of Mr Green then it is clear evidence that we have too many of these under employed individuals. When Macavity and Ali-Izmah Darling look for spending cuts, this is where they should start.
54

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:43:25
56 Observer. 1, 30/11/2008 01:38:12

What Scot does not understand the "s" word?

Where exactly are you Fifi?
55

Cynicus in Exile,

30/11/2008 01:44:42
"Your team made a mistake. A big one. Just deal with it - I am a nationalist, but I wouldn't spit down a Tories throat if their belly was on fire."-Observer. 1, Glasgow 30/11/2008 01:40:50

You are in great form. I will not yield to the temptation to wish you ill more often. Au contraire: get well soon, even if your posts become as boring as mine.
56

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:46:39
58 Observer. 1, Glasgow 30/11/2008 01:40:50

"I wouldn't spit down a Tories throat if their belly was on fire."

Where's your humanity? I know I would - even if their belly wasn't on fire:0)
57

Observer. 1,

30/11/2008 01:49:17
59 You may well be right Cynicus, if Mr Green was suborning a civil servant to provide him with restricted information for partisan political reasons then that may merit some form of discipline. But most of us here are agreed that does NOT include sending round anti terrorist Officers. That is the key to this issue. And that is where we need answers.
58

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 01:51:21
Spook - £4.50 for a hot doggy - yer daft son - aw that fitba has saftened yer brains.
59

Steve A.,

30/11/2008 01:52:18
#47 Fifi

You should look up mud flinging.. and none of your definitions on sectarianism describe said mud flinging either .


Mud Slinging however does have definitions .





60

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 01:52:35
62 - never boring !

63 - I've never seen a Tory with their belly on fire, but I think I would stick to my intentions.
61

jester,

Somewhere Else 30/11/2008 01:53:25
I wonder how many of our MP's are still in favour of holding suspected terrorists for up to 42 days without charge, and thinking "There but for the grace of God go I...."

62

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 02:00:14
MI5 will get new powers to bug MP's

Furious cabinet revolt as Blair gives green light for security services to spy on elected representatives

By Francis Elliott, Whitehall Editor
Sunday, 15 January 2006

Tony Blair is preparing to scrap a 40-year ban on tapping MPs' telephones, despite fierce Cabinet opposition, The Independent on Sunday can reveal.

He is expected to formally announce to the Commons within weeks that MPs can no longer be sure that the security services and others will not intercept their communications.
63

Scunnert,

30/11/2008 02:03:35
Andrew MacKinlay MP - under secret surveillance ?
June 4, 2008 1:59 PM

Has Andrew MacKinlay, the sometimes rebellious Labour MP for Thurrock, been snooped on by the secret intelligence agencies and by Labour Ministers ? Have his conversations with his constituents and others bee snooped on as well, in contravention of the Wilson Doctrine ?

One of his constituents is Michael John Smith, who was convicted of passing aerospace secrets to the Russian KGB, but who is now trying to get his case reviewed.

Andrew MacKinlay recently asked a Parliamentary Question of Jack Straw if he had been snooped on whilst visiting Michael John Smith in prison. It also seems that a Government Minister has admitted that this MP's meetings with a "Russian Envoy" in the Palace of Westminster itself, were also being snooped on.

Are there hidden microphones or cameras, or a network of human informers sneaking about within Parliament ?
64

DouglasT,

30/11/2008 02:05:23
While this article is highlighting the integrity (?) of our government, there is a very interesting piece on their handling of the baby P case.

http://www.lynnefeatherstone.org/2008/11/reading-baby-p-serious-case-review.htm
65

Guga II,

Rockall 30/11/2008 02:07:42
The Quisling Maggie Broon made a name for himself whilst in opposition by specialising in leaked reports from the Treasury. Maybe he should have himself arrested under his terrorism legislation.

In addition, the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party assured us that their terrorism legislation would not be misused. Then they arrest a pensioner under that legislation for having the temerity to heckle Jack Straw at a Labour Party conference.

After that, they proceed to freeze Icelandic bank accounts under their terrorism legislation.

Now they have arrested an MP for doing his job and exposing dirty dealings by the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party; again using their terrorism legislation.

It also turns out that they have been compiling a list of MPs that voted against their 42 day detention legislation. Have they also compiled dossiers on these MPs, as well as everyone else that has spoken out against their lies, corruption and Stalinist, totalitarian, control freak government?

The sooner this Stalinist government is voted out of office, the better.
66

2Right,

On Location 30/11/2008 02:30:04
Martin should have went when it became known his wife was claiming for Taxi's to go shopping despite not being employed by Parliament.

Lets face it what happened to "Taxi For" McLetchie.

Kenny MacAskill should join him for allowing Juries details to be released without holding Gerard Sinclair of SCCRC accountable for their actions.

Judges should not be allowed to sit on appeals they once acted as "Advocate Depute's" on.

Judges should not be allowed to sit on appeals in cases their "Parents" presided over.
67

subrosa,

30/11/2008 03:24:45
# 75

Now don't you be getting cocky you man! I try to support your blog as much as possible but I might just withdraw my useless mutterings :-)
68

subrosa,

30/11/2008 03:25:16
ooops that should have been young man not you man.

Too late to be sitting here - bed calls.
69

terry osser,

morden 30/11/2008 06:15:31
its john straw

its robert wales

the anti terrorism laws were always about control of law abiding--no mistake

and still glenrothes voted labor in--are you all brain dead?
70

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30/11/2008 06:22:36
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30/11/2008 06:23:55
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30/11/2008 06:24:54
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30/11/2008 07:57:22
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Colin R,

Bearsden 30/11/2008 08:27:13
The integrity of Britain's police foreces is at rock bottom- today we see footage of a ware hero being assaulted by GReater Manchester Police cowards who then secured a conviction for assault by the ex soldier- by commiting perjury.
Lothian and Borders Police have been caught again filtering evidence- L&B are the most cowardly police forece - brave with Tommy Sheridan's daughter, timid when dealing with rapists.
this is on top of Jean Charles, Forrestgate, Harry Stanley shooting of innocents, acting like Hitler's SS
75

karin.m,

30/11/2008 08:46:37
the hbos merger is being taken to court gordon brown and mandelson may end up having to answer to a court over the merger.

join the action group here

http://www.mergeractiongroup.org.uk/
76

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30/11/2008 08:55:59
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30/11/2008 09:11:26
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Joe Macdelta.,

30/11/2008 09:14:39
Take everything that comes from Parliment, no matter from what party, with a pinch of salt, whether leaked or statement there will be a hidden agenda somewhere. M.P.s dont do anything for the benefit of the electorate without a donation, unless its detrimental to other parties, and beneficial to there own party.
Dont go thinking that we live in a democracy, for we dont, when was the last time we were asked our opinion on anything. We dont have a voice on any topic that comes before parliment, the laws are debated and passed, without any reference to the people, it is getting more like a police state by the day, lets have an election.
79

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30/11/2008 09:20:55
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TWC,

30/11/2008 09:24:27
94 Joe Macdelta.,
Spot on, Whoever triggered this arrest(and you bet there's a politician involved) is an idiot. Unless there was another problem we have not heard about this would have died away.
The Calman Financial report was obviously going to be a white wash when Muscatelli refused to chooseas it was a political decision then promptly gave the political opinion that Fiscal Autonomy didn't sit well with the Union.

Fiscal Autonomy is the only way to save the Union.
81

Cadgers,

Perth 30/11/2008 09:24:28
#58 Observer1 "I am a nationalist, but I wouldn't spit down a Tories throat if their belly was on fire."

LOL thanks for that, very descriptive and VERY true!!
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30/11/2008 09:27:36
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30/11/2008 09:27:44
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30/11/2008 09:27:50
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30/11/2008 09:28:01
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Pilrig,

Livingston 30/11/2008 09:35:50
59 - yer final paragraph - spot on. BTW you got yer apology.
87

jdships,

Edinburgh 30/11/2008 10:01:49
58 Observer. 1,Glasgow

Thanks for clearing that up !
SNP = Police State
88

Nevsky,

Moscow 30/11/2008 10:08:54

ZaNu-Labour
89

fiferjohn,

30/11/2008 10:17:06
see you can't commnent on the calman report story.
gordon brown showing the contempt for scotland and her people .instead of giving all the information and letting us decide want we want it is you get what i want .
90

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 30/11/2008 10:26:48
Arrest Gorbals Mick for impersonating an MP and Speaker.
91

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30/11/2008 10:27:06
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30/11/2008 10:28:19
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Curley Bill,

30/11/2008 10:40:24
If Mr Green's house was raided by anti-terror cops why wasn't Mr (Glasgow East) Marshall's house raided by the Fraud Squad?
94

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30/11/2008 10:45:40
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Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 10:46:17
Curley Bill, # 109

You would have thought Angus Macneil MP SNP would sent the fraud mob round, if he thought that Mr Marshall had committed fraud, wouldn't you?
Maybe the fraud thing was just an SNP smear?

However, if you know better I am sure Strathclyde Police are just waiting to hear from an upright citizen like you to come forward with the details of Mr Marshall's fraud!
96

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30/11/2008 10:47:04
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30/11/2008 10:48:55
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Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 10:52:22
Press agenda HQ # 113

The same lodge as Salmond too I suspect!
He has been getting away with taking his pay as a Westminster MP and doing a big ZERO for it. Some cynical people might think that is fraud too.
99

Curley Bill,

30/11/2008 10:53:50
111, As is apparent in Mr Green's case, hard evidence isn't required to precipitate a police raid - it seems suspicion will suffice.
Well, surely it is suspicious for an MP to claim half-a million to run an office which didn't exist, hmm?
100

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 11:02:59
Curley Bill # 115

Don't sit talking about then, get down to your nearest police office and let them know, otherwise you could find yourself in the cells for suppressing information about a crime.
They obviously had information about Damian Green MP. His mole will have told the police all he knows about the matter. The mole is probably looking at a jail sentence, if he was incited to commit a crime by another person, why should that person avoid joining him in jail? If the the other party was a Tory MP, supporter, party member, does that absolve him from any criminal proceedings? If so, it sounds like a good reason to join the Conservative Party, but, it does not sound democratic.
101

Jimmy Le Pie,

30/11/2008 11:09:35
Happy St Andrew's Day everyone.

Looks like Comrade Broon's 'revival' has gone full astern.

Looks like him and his sleaze ridden party's day of reckoning is looming ever closer.

Comrade Broon should be facing his own 'Watergate' soon!!

I can't wait!!!
102

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 11:14:11
Fifi

"As Marcus Tullius Cicero famously said, Cui Bono? "

Was he in Sonny & Cher?
103

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 11:22:05
Jimmy Le Pie # 117

Most people are more concerned with keeping their jobs and paying their mortgages than worried about Damian Green MP going to jail. This is more navel gazing by Westminster types and those who would like to have their snout in the trough too.
104

Cynicus in Exile,

30/11/2008 11:24:58
"As is apparent in Mr Green's case, hard evidence isn't required to precipitate a police raid - it seems suspicion will suffice"-115 Curley Bill, 30/11/2008 10:53:50

What buffonery.

The fuzz aren't going to raid an MP#s homeand office on mere suspicion. How do YOU know what evidence they have?

From news reports alone we know the following:

1) The Tory Party had an active member in the Home Office passing information to Green.
2) There is at least hearsay evidence that material was not being merely volunteered but actively solicited. An un-named Tory is quoted as saying this was the line onf police inquiry before adding, "but no money changed hands."
3) That Green was embarrassing the government using leaked material is a fact beyond dispute.

The politics of all this could well turn to Macavity's advantage if it turns out that the Conservative Party had, effectively, planted a spy in the Home Office to serve party political ends.

As I was the FIRST (although un-noticed by some) to point out on this site yesterday:

'But one thing remains unforgiveable, even in the "criminal Tories" scenario. If, as reported, anti-teerorism powers were used then we have another instance of abuse of these powers by the police. Such powers were never intended to be used to arrest Mr Walter Wolgang for heckling Jack Straw or against defaulting Icelandic Banks. But they were. If they have been used also against Mr Green then that is the worst abuse so far and marks another milestone on the road to New Labour's police state.'-Cynicus in Exile,
29/11/2008 01:00:12
105

puskas,

East kilbride 30/11/2008 11:28:24
No116 Churchill W.

Head in the sand, Ostrich comes to mind ... Remember EGO..
What we see happening arounds us led by her majesties government The Liebour Party cannot be condoned.

" We shall learn from our mistakes " That quote from Liebour MP's and MSP's seems to be prevalent.

Muscatteli was unavailable for comment. ( Calman Commission) .. How sad he did not comment and attempt rebutel. Waiting on Mandelson to write the script.?

Churchill W . J Smith guilty as sin. Live on BBC tele this morning seen nothing, heard nothing, new nothing.





106

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 11:28:46
I think the whole point is not what he was alleged to have done, but rather that Michael Martin allowed counter-terrorism police to raid his offices and homes.
107

Jimmy Le Pie,

30/11/2008 11:31:25
#121


No one is above the law especially the law makers!

Damien Green will never go on trial, as to do so would involve Comrade Broon and his cabal of serial liars and cheats,being forced to appear in court.

This would never be allowed as they would all have to tell the truth.

This is something they don't know how to do!!
108

Happy Hibee,

York 30/11/2008 11:36:27
I think a lot of people could end up with egg on their faces on this one and I don't mean the Government or the Police.

What would be the reaction if Mr Green was found to have encouraged the whistleblower, or dare say, even made payment to him, in return for the information?

This "hypathetical" scenario would put a different light on the situation, would it not !!
109

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 11:36:43
Spook

"i would happily vote Conservative, even a thatcher type government if it meant keeping your type out of politics, that is how much i despise labour."

You what? I'd never vote for that shower of useless barstewards in a month of Sundays. I'd rather take a cheese-grater to my piles than even contemplate voting Tory.

(Guess I'm not a tartan tory then).
110

bluehead,

edinburgh 30/11/2008 11:37:47
the Oder surrounding this labour goverment is getting stronger by the minute,it is time to pull the plug on this lot ,I think they have done enough damage.
111

puskas,

East kilbride 30/11/2008 11:38:59
Has it been noticed that Mr Gallacher Liebour, North Ayrshire has been saturating The Herald letter post bag even more in recent weeks.
I'm sure many letters in responce to this eejit have not been permitted .. Mine and many others.

The Scotsman and Herald are they being kept afloat by the dept ridden Liebour party?
112

Fred Quimby,

30/11/2008 11:39:34
#123
The Spook in Leith,
30/11/2008 11:27:08

Just tried the deathclock test

Entered the required data and clicked on the "CHECK DEATHCLOCK BUTTON" and nothing!

Am I dead already?

Sometimes it feels like that, especially after Glenrothes but like Lazarus I have arisen, but only at night.
113

puskas,

East kilbride 30/11/2008 11:43:59
No130 Roscombe.. Vote Tory? Never

I suppose I'm no Tartan Tory either..

Vote SNP .
114

Cynicus in Exile,

30/11/2008 11:44:44

"I think the whole point is not what he was alleged to have done, but rather that Michael Martin allowed counter-terrorism police to raid his offices and homes."- 125,Hugh Roscombe,30/11/2008 11:28:46

Two points: first the trivial one that Speaker Martin had no powers to restrain police raids outside parliament. But you are quite correct on the major point -the Speaker has some explaining to do on the raids on Mr Green's Commons office. On this matter I harken to Tam Dalyell -in his day a parliamentary thorn in the sides of governments and serial user of leaked material. He urges those who would "start scapegoating the Speaker... would do well to wait to hear the statement which he will undoubtedly make to the House of Commons."

That seems fair to me.
115

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 11:49:17
122 - Cynicus, I think it more likely that this civil servant (who is only 26) approached the Tories. No doubt having made a useful contact, they would have encouraged him to keep passing on information. But I don't think he could be described as a plant, not at this stage anyway.

And politicians use leaks from useful sources all the time, all parties do it.

132 Puskas - Comical Alex is everywhere ! He is even on the New Statesman, quite where he finds the time for his Councilloring duties is a mystery to me.

116

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 11:54:23
Deathclock? Apparently I'll live till I'm 93.
117

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 11:55:14
The Spook in Leith, # various

"I am so worried about the state of British democracy, etc"

You are a pompous little clown. You comment on British democracy and you are off to the USA next summer. I hope you don't have any problems at US frontier.
Believe it or not there are lot of British people that do not believe that terrorists and spies should be free to carry their insidious plots to fruition and that they should not be supported in this country. That they should be stopped in their tracks for the greater good.
What is the view from Iceland on that; the country, not the shop?
118

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30/11/2008 11:59:43
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30/11/2008 12:00:47
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Nikostratos,,

30/11/2008 12:01:36
What I don't understand is why the cybernats are going on about the doings at westmonster an institution they vehemently hate and detest.
121

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30/11/2008 12:03:22
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Rodster,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 12:05:53
Does anyone on here ,irrespective of your political leanings seriously believe that neither Brown or Smith knew beforehand all that was happening.
Is it conceivable that the Police would countenance arresting an opposition front bencher without first asking the Home Sec'y?
Would she not speak the PM's office??
Brown will be proved to be up to his neck in this , he hates opposition , and hates anything or anyone disagreeing with his perceived superior knowledge of all and everything.
123

Nikostratos,,

30/11/2008 12:07:06
#127 The Spook in Leith,


"i would happily vote Conservative, even a thatcher type government if it meant keeping your type out of politics, that is how much i despise labour."


the antidote for that comment is period of Tory rule for you to live under. And what did the Scottish peoples do to deserve another Thatcher?
124

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 12:07:53
Nikostratos,,

"What I don't understand is why the cybernats are going on about the doings at westmonster an institution they vehemently hate and detest."

Because currently we're part of Britain. Are YOU happy about the speaker agreeing to using terror-police?
125

Allan(handofgod137),

30/11/2008 12:09:30
#144 Agreed!
126

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30/11/2008 12:10:30
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30/11/2008 12:13:03
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Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 12:16:06
Press agenda HQ # 140

Presumably terrorists and spies, in your view, should be allowed to continue to the end of their plots, with results like Mumbai last week?

You are an appeaser of terrorists. I assume that you donate to radical Muslim groups and applaud, from the sidelines, all the good things that they do.
Just because you are a coward and appease terrorists does not mean that they will not attack you.
129

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 12:18:20
The Spook in Leith # 152

The Scottish people already have another Thatcher, but you call him Sir, Master; Alec Salmond to the rest of us.

I wonder what Salmond will do about leaks from the Scottish "Parliament."
130

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 12:25:45
The Spook in Leith # 149

Your mask just slipped little boy. Do you think that Iceland should send troops to support NATO in Afghanistan? Be careful of your answer little boy, the USA monitors this site!
Do you seriously think that Damian Green MP was doing what he did for your benefit? If you do, then are truly naive, but then everybody looking at your posts here and your toy blogsite already knows that.
You have a talent for self-publicity and pointless invective and nothing else. I know you would not say the things to my face that you posted above.
131

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 12:30:33
The Spook in Leith # 156

You are a revisionist too. That is more than a little spineless do you not think? You are weak, vacillating and pointless.
You do not support the British Police in their unending struggle against terrorists and espionage carried out in the UK, am I correct?
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30/11/2008 12:30:46
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30/11/2008 12:36:25
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30/11/2008 12:37:05
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Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 12:39:24
Aberdeenshire Scot/Ayrshire Scot # 161

Are you the moderator here, if not, ram it?

The Spook in Leith, # 162

You can't answer my question because you do not the facility to. Why don't you get your big bird to pan me? I hope the USA does think that you are a typical product of Scottish Higher Education. When the hard questions come your way you scuttle off backwards at high speed.
Why should Damian Green MP not be investigated by the Metroplitan Police?
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30/11/2008 12:39:35
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Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 12:42:30
"Why should Damian Green MP not be investigated by the Metroplitan Police?"

By using the anti-terrorism rules? Come off it!
138

Fred Quimby,

30/11/2008 12:44:32

Hugh Roscombe,
30/11/2008 11:54:23


93?

You are already 97?
139

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 12:47:09
sm 7531/2 # 169

The reason that the UK has a problem is because the UK stands up to terrorists and does not appease them, like you prefer to do. Appeasement of Hitler did not prevent WWII. Appeasement of terrorists will not stop attacks on the UK. The attack on Glasgow Airport occurred because certain individuals thought it would be an easy target. They will attack where they think it is easiest and where they will gain most publicity; appeasers never get that point.
140

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 12:51:06
Remember the tanks around Heathrow?
141

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 12:52:08
The Spook in Leith # 173

You are being childish again, you won't answer because you can't answer. Snide comments like yours and your other pseudonyms here show you for what you are; nothing, an empty vessel.
You want to criticise the British government because you are an SNP supporter. Why is Salmond so quiet on this subject, because he agrees, now that he is FM in Scotland, that espionage against the elected UK government is anti-democratic?
142

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 12:53:57
Hugh Roscombe, # 171

I can't see your point. But, you cannot have travelled much if you have never seen armoured vehicles on, or near foreign airfields before.
143

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 12:58:44
Bird of Prey, Will Pan what you say # 175

You are as intimidating as a Christmas turkey on 27th December!
144

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 13:01:31
The Spook in Leith # 176

You could try and be a man, overlook an old man's frailties and try, try at least to answer his faltering questions. But, that takes moral fibre!
145

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 13:03:24
Churchill W.,

"I can't see your point. But, you cannot have travelled much if you have never seen armoured vehicles on, or near foreign airfields before."

1 False alarm?
2 Govt in trouble, so try the smear tactics?
146

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 13:08:40
Our wonderful speaker.

Spends £20,000 of taxpayers' money on lawyers to challenge negative press stories.

Used air miles accumulated on official business to fly his children and their families to London in business class.

£4,000 in taxis for the speaker's wife for "shopping"

Refurbishing his home at a cost to the taxpayer of £1.7m.

Some guy eh?
147

Fred Quimby,

30/11/2008 13:10:12
#174
Churchill W.,
30/11/2008 12:53:57

I have travelled a lot and have seen lots of tanks, armoured cars in many different countries at many different airports

Guatelamala
Haitie
Argentina
Paraguay
Nigeria
Caneroon
Heathrow
148

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 13:12:05
The whole affair was heavy-handed. It was overkill.
149

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 13:14:22
The tanks around Heathrow was probably just an error. When told of a possible threat, Blair suggested a think-tank.

He was possibly misunderstood.
150

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 13:14:52
191

CALL THE MORTGAGE POLICE!
151

puskas,

East kilbride 30/11/2008 13:16:54
Glenrothes .. Their will be few Glenrothes at the GE.

The Liebour Party will have too many problems in England to send the cabinet up to Scotland and perpetrate their lies and deceit against the Scottish people.. Sadly many of the Liebourites are Scots.
152

puskas,

East kilbride 30/11/2008 13:32:32
Postal vote?
7,000 Glenrothes. Highly unusual and never discussed, debated in any shape or form..

Normal postal/proxy vote 1000 or under. Who signed all the proxy votes? which party were involved in helping request these votes and help fill theses forms out ?

Liebour.............. Infirm and disabled used for the benefit of Liebour.. Some of the electorate despite being disabled were also in such bad health they didn't know what a proxy was.. Again who signed most of these postal/proxy votes.
I have asked newspaper political editors, The Electoral Commission and Labour MP's, MSP's to no avail.. Why do you ask is the reply . SNP MSP's are last in line to be asked the same question.
I seriously believe that the percent vote on this matter is essential to the people of Scotland. Rumours of mal-practise by Liebour stretch from all corners of Scotland.
153

puskas,

East kilbride 30/11/2008 13:44:33
Glenrothes .. Could their be arrests in the Glenrothes constituancy ???

Well the Marshall £500,000 expenses and possible inquiry seems to have sunk without trace just like the money. He didn't have an office and had members of his family working from a room in his home regards 2 business concerns, 1, I believe based on charity. Queenslie Estate? Near 30 years a Liebour MP for the area and 95% of the electorate didn't know him...
Mind bogling that the police have not been involved as far as we the citizens know.
154

puskas,

East kilbride 30/11/2008 13:52:11
Muscatelli was unavailable for comment on the Calman report allegations..

I'm sure many of our posters on this comment board would have liked the opportunity.. Alas not allowed by the Scotsman's editors
155

James.com,

30/11/2008 14:02:31
Nobody has bettered George Galloways take on this on Sky News " Either Govt. knew in which case they are too wicked to Govern or they didn't in which case they are too stupid...."
156

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 14:04:29
199 that's a good one, you can always count on George for a soundbite.
157

notime4anovice,

glasgow 30/11/2008 14:57:58
#170 Churchill said

"The UK stands up to terrorists and does not appease them"
I don't think this stands up to scrutiny.

We appeased Hitler which led to WW2
We appeased the IRA and gave them seats in parliament.
We appeased Abu Hamza etc until our hand was forced by threats of US action to have him extradited.
We're now appeasing the Taliban and having negotiations with them.
Basically we stand up to terrorism until it gets too expensive and we realise we can't beat them
158

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 15:02:15
Bird of Prey, Will Pan what you say # 182

Do you think Damian Green MP should be charged with being a person of low morals? Or, have you sunk too low to know right from wrong?
You are a sleazy person who's only intent in life is to lower the tone of debate here. That you should know about such distasteful sites will disgust all reasonable observers. That you attempt to attribute that site to someone not involved there makes you scum of the earth, never mind Roseburn Terrace. I hope your neighbours know what a lowlife lurks in their proximity. You are gratuitously advertising pornography here for reasons, presumably, related to your inadequacy.
The Spook, if he is a decent, person should divest himself of your presence/friendship, lowlife pornographers, like you, do not make suitable friends for ambitious, decent individuals.
159

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 15:05:59
notime4anovice # 201

That is my point, we appease terrorists at our peril. I am glad that you have got the point, if many others have not.
Terrorism can be beaten to say otherwise is defeatist.
160

Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 15:21:40
Bird of Prey, Will Pan what you say # 182

I see you have been sanctioned for your promotion of pornography and lieing smears. It is not the first time and should not be tolerated as the recent espionage activities of certain members of the UK Conservative Party should not.
161

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 15:23:15
''Terrorists can be beaten to say otherwise is defeatist''

OK give us a list of conflicts involving terrorism which have been resolved militarily, rather than politically.
162

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 15:24:25
''espionage activities'' - you've lost the plot.
163

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30/11/2008 15:36:26
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Fred Quimby,

30/11/2008 15:42:43
Observer. 1,

I think Churchill W is clearly delusional, a letter day Empire Loyalist.

I think he was a bit player in the Patrick McGoohan TV series, The Prisoner.

Probably living a bedsit in Kirkcaldy with 1 bar electric fire and a single ring gas ring.

I remember the days in Poonah........
165

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 15:52:22
An empire loyalist, who appears to support Labour, and names himself after Winston Churchill.

Yep, delusional would seem to cover it.
166

notime4anovice,

glasgow 30/11/2008 16:00:30
#209

That confused me aswell. A moniker of "Churchill" yet has Labour principles. Ironic that Churchill wasn't very fond of socialism much...

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
Sir Winston Churchill
167

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 16:01:23
"Probably living a bedsit in Kirkcaldy with 1 bar electric fire and a single ring gas ring."

No. He aspires to this.
168

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 16:03:40
210 Well, the Labour Party aren't very fond of socialism these days either.
169

Cynicus in Exile,

30/11/2008 16:05:26
"Cynicus, I think it more likely that this civil servant (who is only 26) approached the Tories. No doubt having made a useful contact, they would have encouraged him to keep passing on information. But I don't think he could be described as a plant, not at this stage anyway." - 133 Observer. 1, Glasgow 30/11/2008 11:49:17


You may be interested to know that the civil servant, Chris Galley, was interviwed two years ago by -guess who? You win a coconut -it was indeed Damian Green. He didn't get the job but continued instead to work in the Home Office "which included work in the private office of Jacqui Smith, the home secretary. Green became the recipient of a succession of leaked documents, which he used to embarrass the government."

There is more.

Lots more. See today's Sunday Times.
170

notime4anovice,

glasgow 30/11/2008 16:06:41
#212
Yes but I doubt if he knows this.
171

Russell M,

Stirling 30/11/2008 16:07:54
George Orwell: In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

C. S. Lewis: Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

Barry Goldwater: Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed.

John F. Kennedy: We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.

Lord Acton: The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the party that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.

Noam Chomsky: The most effective way to restrict democracy is to transfer decision-making from the public arena to unaccountable institutions: kings and princes, priestly castes, military juntas, party dictatorships, or modern corporations.

Rosa Luxemburg: Without general elections, without unrestricted freedom of press and assembly, without a free struggle of opinion, life dies out in every public institution, becomes a mere semblance of life, in which only the bureaucracy remains as the active element.

Thomas Jefferson: I know of no safe repository of the ultimate power of society but people. And if we think them not enlightened enough, the remedy is not to take the power from the
172

Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 16:08:19
So many leaks even Tenalady extra can't cure it.
173

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 16:19:14
213 Thanks for the tip off Cynicus. I found the Simon Coates article about the most sinister law in Britain quite interesting, and the coverage of the collapse of the Sally Murrer trial.

OK so let's accept that Chris Galley has a connection to Green, and made successive leaks. He wouldn't be the first to do that, and he won't be the last. Gordon Brown himself made use of leaked information when in opposition, so maybe he had an equivalent ''mole'' too.

What does that tell us ? That politics is a dirty game.

I still don't think that justifies the raid on Mr Green or the breach of Parliamentry privilege.

And in view of the collapse of the Murrer trial, will they ever get any of this to court ?



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Curley Bill,

30/11/2008 16:22:39
118 - Cynicus in Exile,30/11/2008 11:24:58
"As is apparent in Mr Green's case, hard evidence isn't required to precipitate a police raid - it seems suspicion will suffice"-115 Curley Bill, 30/11/2008 10:53:50

What buffonery.

Sir, you take that back! I am not a buffon! I support Kilmarnock!!
175

AlecJ,

Aberdeen 30/11/2008 16:53:25
If Speaker Martin had been the Speaker at the time of the Civil War (17th Century), there would have been NO Civil War as he would have given in meekly to the King, and allowed the 5 MPs to be arrested and hanged by the King. The man is a disgrace to his office, and I hope the House will admonish him properly. Or possibly not, as the whole House seems to lack the backbone. Cameron makes plenty of noise, but mostly ineffectually.
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danielrober,

30/11/2008 16:58:57
Simply shocking and quite unacceptable.

Members of Parliament can not be treated in this way, either by Civil servants sending out orders for arrests or politicians taking advantage. Really Sad.
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30/11/2008 16:59:05
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notime4anovice,

glasgow 30/11/2008 17:01:05
#222
I hope he isn't "admonished".
He should be punished for failing to tell the home secretary or the PM that he was going to let the police into an MP's private offices.
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30/11/2008 17:01:29
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mike3,

30/11/2008 17:05:04
Looking at what crime Green is charged with to justify his arrest and the raid on parliament then surely there must be a very long list of MPs who are sweating. How many MPs from Brown down have received and used information leaked from government departments?
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30/11/2008 17:06:18
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30/11/2008 17:07:53
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30/11/2008 17:09:07
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30/11/2008 17:10:44
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mike3,

30/11/2008 17:10:57
# 222#226 and didn't Hitler in his early days get a great deal of help by having, I think, Goering as speaker of the German parliament? Not that I think Martin is other than out of his depth.
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30/11/2008 17:12:23
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30/11/2008 17:17:32
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30/11/2008 17:37:11
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Churchill W.,

30/11/2008 18:01:52
Observer. 1, 205

Mumbai, November 2008. The Indian security forces dealt with the terrorist challenge in the traditional manner, at the muzzle of a gun.
You are an appeaser, a surrender monkey, enjoy your cosseted lifestyle while others protect you. Continue criticising those who protect your lifestyle, your family, that is what cowards do. You can only make snide criticism while others protect your interests; a white feather for you, coward.
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30/11/2008 18:07:43
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30/11/2008 18:09:12
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Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 18:09:34
236 Churchill W

You haven't got it have you? Observer asked "OK give us a list of conflicts involving terrorism which have been resolved militarily, rather than politically."

That's not been "resolved." It's stage 1.
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Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 18:22:09
236 - cheers, that gave me a good laugh. A white feather ? How terribly British.

When you've finished googling provide me with the list I asked you for.
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Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 18:39:57
Andy Stewart and "The White Heather Club"

Observer 1 and "The White Feather Club"

Churchill W and "The S­hite Blether Club."
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the.ally ,

max. 30/11/2008 19:02:52
The police are scum.

All the police in Scotland are functionally criminalising the Scots populace.

The criminal justice system in Scotland is completely 'criminal', and a disgrace to be so unfit for purpose. The police in Scotland have been led to believe by their superiors they are allowed to 'filter out' evidence and important information. The lord advocate to scotland elish angiolini has given all 8 police chiefs in scotland the 'nod' to do this practice because it practically criminalises all of Scotland's masses. The sheriffs get this perverted evidence at court and immediately convicts because of the 'filtering-out' and bastardisation of the evidence the police and the english crown prosecution office put in front of the sheriffs. The ordinary citizen in Scotland stands no chance of getting a fair trial in Scotland because scotland's lord advocate elish angiolini tells the 8 police chiefs in scotland to 'fit' the evidence for a conviction, thus the prosecution office in scotland take these perverted case files to sheriff courts, and the sheriffs see no other evidence but the completely 'fitted-up' evidence.
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30/11/2008 19:21:25
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30/11/2008 19:32:51
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Colin R,

Bearsden 30/11/2008 19:39:56
Tell the cowardly biased Michael Martin what you think of him at martinm@parliament.uk

As for the Metropolitan KGB you can complain about them at the IPCC website- the IPCC are rather busy however what with the Wigan war hero being assaulted by three brave coppers from Greater Manchester Police- you know the one's that ran away from Rangers fans. oh then there is Guildford, Jean Charles etc- lucky they don't cover Scotland given L&B, Strathclyde, Northern, Fife failures and miscarriages of justice on a par with the early days of the Gestapo
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Pilrig,

Livingston 30/11/2008 19:40:22
142 & 146 - you wont get answers from Nikostratos. He won't condemn the continued mis-use of the anti-terror legislation. Enuf said
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Pilrig,

Livingston 30/11/2008 19:41:29
236 - taken yer medication yet, radgeworks ?
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Proximaking,

Stonehaven 30/11/2008 19:44:50
Here it is again. An MP caught in time of the War on terror fully supported by the Tory party treasonously being in receipt of information from the home office that is supposed to be protecting the public against said terrorists and what do we see? Rather than people queuing up to drag him off to the hangman's noose, as will no doubt quite rightly happen to the civil servant, we see people queuing up to bleat that an MP shouldn't be expected to obey the law! What is wrong with people in this country who demand that you or I obey the law but that "representatives", who in truth represent no-one but themselves, should somehow be above the law!? And what is so special about a den of self seeking liars that they be placed out of reach of inspector Knacker? If treason has been committed Green should be hanged by the neck until dead as should anyone else who backed him, surely his wife knew and that was why she stopped the computer being taken. If you want to stop treason you have to rule with a rod of iron and it is time this country recovered it's backbone and did just that. And perhaps after her back-stabbing performance of Jacqui Smith today Brown could please please please get rid of Harman at last, as with friends like her who needs enemies?
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Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 19:51:02
Is it a full moon tonight or something ? The looneys seem to be out in force.

251 - paragraphs.
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Fred Quimby,

30/11/2008 19:51:34
251

WUM
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Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 20:11:36
Yeah I know, but why would you go to the bother ? That in itself is lunatic behaviour.
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30/11/2008 20:15:47
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Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 20:22:43
Yeah the low self esteem bit rings true. He's getting a thrill out of talking about ruling with a rod of iron, the same as Winston likes talking about the muzzle of a gun.

Perhaps they should just invest in some toy soldiers to play with and stop boring everyone.
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the.ally ,

30/11/2008 20:26:48
Ploughman's lunch #245, I think Scottish lawyers have been brow-beaten by elish angiolini of recent history; it's more the case now-a-days that defense lawyers 'encourage' their clients to plead guilty so they gt 'lesser' sentences. this is so because of what I've already said in my other post.

Lawyers? Hmm.
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Fred Quimby,

30/11/2008 20:56:18
need my beauty sleep and Normand is safely down the Foreskin Arms drinking his Pims.

Night night a tous
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Hugh Roscombe,

30/11/2008 21:11:09
Buenas noches.
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Fred Quimby,

30/11/2008 21:14:56

On the other hand

Worth a look

http://tinyurl.com/5zcqzo
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puskas,

East kilbride 30/11/2008 21:30:17
Brown on 24hr BBC tonight being interviewed when a young man..(MP)

Quite open about information that he was receiving which was secret . We all have our ways he said...

Well he admitted live on television that whilst in opposition it was common practise. What has changed?

Mandelson have a hand in this? ( top man in Government runs the show not Brown..)

I believe this episode will backfire on the Liebour Party.

Whats the betting that the next opinion poll will have gone up another 3%.. This would give the Tories an 18% lead..

Would this benefit my party the SNP. ?
212

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 21:34:25
262 Very good. ''Downfall'' is the perfect vehicle to pastiche this government. When are they putting the trap door in Downing Street for Brown to get to his bunker.
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Observer. 1,

Glasgow 30/11/2008 21:38:09
263 - I would not wish a Tory government on anyone. But the Scots won't vote for them come hell or high water, so it won't be our fault. We should just concentrate on bolstring support for the SNP and let the other political chips fall where they may.

I'm off goodnight.
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Richard Lionheart,

30/11/2008 23:26:34
Can’t wait to hear Gordon Brown explain that many other countries around the World have their opposition arrested and jailed.
I wonder if he will have the guts to read out the list of the countries whose opulent company Britain now ranks amongst

Jackie Smith should certainly resign and Gordon Brown should not be far behind.

Labour has really been exposed as Liebour.
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Isonomia,

Lenzie 01/12/2008 00:06:34
I WROTE A POST using a situation that had occurred to me as an example of correspondence with an MP that should not be divulged to the public.

On reflection, I thought better of it because if an MP's office can be raided, what's to stop the Scotsman Newspaper being raided next.

Michael Martin should hang his head in shame. People fought and died for the liberty of this country and he just handed it on a plate to the police and presumably rolled over and let them tickle his tummy after begging for some dog-biscuits.
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Fred Quimby,

01/12/2008 12:48:02
Seems like Nick Clegg has blown it bigtime on a flight to Inverness when he was overheard to slag off individual members of his front bench.

What next, Tavish for Westminster or bring back Cahrlie boy?

http://tinyurl.com/5nzm7s


 

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