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Brown urged to get rid of 'Scots Mafia'

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Published Date: 01 June 2008
LABOUR figures have called on Gordon Brown to purge the "Scots Mafia" around him in an effort to curry favour with voters south of the border.
The Prime Minister is being urged to give key jobs to ministers seen as able to reach out to Middle England amid concern that the party will face a landslide general election defeat at the hands of David Cameron's Conservatives.

MPs believe that m
inisters from south of the border will be better able to appeal to middle-class voters in marginal seats across England.

The call came amid increasing speculation about Brown's future as Labour leader and private warnings that David Miliband needs to "seize his chance" to unseat Brown to save his party from defeat.

Stephen Ladyman, a former minister and the Labour MP for the marginal English seat of South Thanet, said: "It is important to recognise that the election is won or lost in England. We need to have English voices speaking and giving messages that make sense in English communities."

Lindsay Hoyle, the Labour MP for Chorley, added: "Voters are looking to see a better balance within the cabinet to ensure that all the regions of England are represented."

Keith Vaz, a former minister and a member of Labour's national executive committee, called for Brown to appoint an English deputy prime minister.

He suggested that Jack Straw, the Justice Secretary, should take over full responsibility for domestic and economic policy.

Such a change would effectively be a demotion for Chancellor and Edinburgh MP Alistair Darling.

Vaz said: "Gordon has proved to me to be very effective. But now he has got a real opportunity to shake up the Government. There is one way of proceeding without the necessity of a huge reshuffle. There is a post that is vacant at the moment and that is the post of deputy prime minister."

Some MPs believe that Alan Johnson, the health secretary, or James Purnell, the work and pensions secretary, could be given new roles as the English "spokesmen" for the Government.

At present there are four Scots in the cabinet, including Brown and Darling. Douglas Alexander, the international development secretary and Des Browne, the defence secretary, are both close to the Prime Minister. However, some English MPs privately question their ability to communicate with voters south of the border.

One Labour MP, who asked not to be named, reportedly said: "We live in a world where there is a quota for women MPs and there may soon be quotas for black MPs. Why should there not be quotas for the English too? The Scots Mafia have dominated Brown's team for too long."

Labour's poor showing in the Crewe by-election has in part given rise to the anti-Scottish backlash.

The disastrous Labour campaign was run by a Scot, Steve McCabe, a Government whip. He has been criticised for running a negative campaign caricaturing the Conservatives as "toffs", a campaign that backfired among English voters.

Foreign Secretary David Miliband is being warned by allies that he will have "missed his chance" if he fails to mount a leadership challenge to Gordon Brown this summer.

Miliband is being pressed by backbench supporters to 'throw his hat into the ring' in order to force the Prime Minister to quit within the next few months.

But they are also piling pressure on the minister, telling him that he will not be supported if – after an election defeat in 2010 – he decides to go for the leadership then.

One senior Labour source said: "David Miliband won't get the leadership if he goes for it when it's easy, after Brown has lost the election. He is being told he should go for it now, or he won't be backed later."





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  • Last Updated: 01 June 2008 12:26 AM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

Senga Jean,

01/06/2008 00:41:54
Is this not RACIST?
2

Jimmy the Pie,

01/06/2008 00:48:34
Well don't sent the worthless articles back here.
3

Jimmy the Pie,

01/06/2008 01:03:06
From the Independent.

Quoting Vomiting Prescott talking about Slimey Milliband

The former deputy prime minister told an audience at the Hay Festival: "When you look at the candidates... this guy's clearly quite a brilliant lad and will be one of the leaders."

It's enough to make you puke!!!
4

Cincinnatus,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 01:06:46
We need to have English voices speaking and giving messages that make sense in English communities."


This is the problem of the Union, as long as it has English accent and manners then that's fine. Have an accent with character and your DOOMED!

Now racist, just the outcome of an inequal union, the language of the elephant is ENGLISH. Simple!
5

Conan the Librarian™,

01/06/2008 01:07:38
1
Indeed.
Substitute "white"for the mealymouthed "south of the border".
6

Jimmy the Pie,

01/06/2008 01:09:11
Its going to be a close run thing.

Will New Labour Sleaze and Corruption go bankrupt before the Hootsmoan and Sunday Hootsmoan??

Which month (this year) will Comrade Broon be sacrifised for the sake of the Labour trough??

Which month (any year) will Iain Gray say anything sensible??

Which month will Red Wendy re-appear??

Who will buy the Hootsmoan and clear out the so called journalists???
7

Jimmy the Pie,

01/06/2008 01:13:58
From the Independent today

"Tories include Clegg in hung parliament plans"

And there was me thinking the Libdums belonged to New Labour Sleaze!!!
8

ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 01/06/2008 01:14:47
Scotland being apart of the Union is a MUST.

However, we do not want to see Scots in power in the Union.

Grrr. Scottish Independence!!!!!!!!!!!
9

Jimmy the Pie,

01/06/2008 01:19:55
From the Mail on Sunday.



The disclosure that Gordon Brown has been ‘cold-calling’ voters at their homes has sparked a furious inquest among his demoralised team of advisers at Downing Street.

Details of the calls – made to ordinary people who had written to him – were revealed last week in PR Week, a trade journal for the public relations industry, which has become a regular source of insider information on No10.

It claimed that the Prime Minster had rung one startled recipient at 6am, damagingly raising the perception of Mr Brown as a work-obsessed insomniac and prompting his aides to scan frantically through his phone records to check the story.


The disclosure that Gordon Brown has been 'cold-calling' voters has sparked a witchhunt

There was, say sources, "a lot of shouting" among the advisers assembled to face Stephen Carter, the Prime Minister’s head of staff.

"Whoever leaked this to PR Week did so as a hostile act," said one senior Brown aide.

Not really surprising is it Comrade Broon????

10

Guga II,

Rockall 01/06/2008 01:40:41
"some English MPs privately question their ability to communicate with voters south of the border".

Not only is this remark racists, but it begs the question, how are English MP's, when they are in these positions, able to communicate with voters north of the border?

All the Scottish New Labour MP's had better invest in stab-vests, they might need them soon.
11

Son of Loki,

The Dark Side 01/06/2008 01:41:16
I got a phone call from one of these market research people this week asking me about the labour party but I couldn't understand much because it sounded as though the person had suffered a stroke.

Why is the labour party still in power?

Answers on a post card please

Stay alive people, it's the only way to live!

Loki Jnr
12

mesmiths,

fife 01/06/2008 01:44:49
Ladyman need not worry too much. It won't be long till these 'mafia' characters who form the famouse 'raj' are voted out right here. And not long after that we'll be rid of Westminster with it's 'English voices speaking and giving messages that make sense in English communities'.
13

Maisie from Morningside,

01/06/2008 01:49:14
Of course if these Scots were Olympic gold medalists or Nobel prizewinners they'd soon be reclassified as "British"

The hypocrisy of the English media on this subject is getting tiresome.
14

Son of Loki,

The Dark Side 01/06/2008 01:50:33
And there was me thinking racism was all about colour. Shows you what I know. I take it then, if I can't call an Irishman 'Mick' then no one can call me 'Jock'

But Jock's ma real name! Oh heck, people are frightened to say anything now, even patronizing English MPs still talk about holidaying in Scotland as though it was some kind of punishment from the chief whip! Half of them couldn't find their way here anyway.

So, where are we? Any further forward, I thought not, looks like rain dear, put the kettle on while I stick a tea cosy on my head and believe what the government tells me what to believe.

Is that another Scotsman selling his country downstream in order to be liked in London? Why yes it is, what will we do now?

Stay alive people, it's the only way to live!

Loki Jnr
15

Guga II,

Rockall 01/06/2008 01:52:38
I wonder what AM Squared, the sycophant who is so fond of the English that he wants us all to embrace them, would have to say to that bit, i.e. "We need to have English voices speaking and giving messages that make sense in English communities."

What about it AM Squared, isn't that racist?
16

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01/06/2008 02:57:44
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17

Jimmy the Pie,

01/06/2008 03:03:10
With Comrade Broon now 'cold calling' people and warning them they must vote New Labour Sleaze, do you think if I phoned Red Wendy she would forward me a copy of her e-mails, re the illegal backhanders???
18

Fanling,

Switzerland 01/06/2008 03:09:17
To all those sleekit tw@ts urging Brown to get rid of his "Scots mafia" ... Before Blair and his slack-jowled successor, the UK government (that includes Scotland for the thick who subscribe to this Scots mafia crap), was comprised almost solely of English MPs. Did we Scots and other non-English ever complain?

Back then, I never heard any of my contemporaries gripe openly about the overwhelming number of English MPs, even if we Scots and others all felt kind of marginalised. I hear others above say the word "racist". I don't recognise that word even if I empathise with its sentiments. In UK politics we have reached an impasse. So ... give the English, and their crawling Scots sympathisers, back their government. To govern England, that is. We'll all be happy then and have nobody else to blame.



19

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 01/06/2008 03:29:32
"At present there are four Scots in the cabinet, including Brown and Darling. Douglas Alexander, the international development secretary and Des Browne, the defence secretary, are both close to the Prime Minister. However, some English MPs privately question their ability to communicate with voters south of the border."

Funny, many Scots question their ability to communicate with voters north of the border
20

democracy,

Scottish Borders 01/06/2008 04:22:05
It is simple, Holyrood governs Scotland and Westminster governs England, PROBLEM SORTED!!!!!!!
21

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 01/06/2008 04:41:16
What are those poor Scottish Labour MP's serving in england going to do when their Scottish electorate stop voting for them??? Being that all the Scottish crap from the conservative government are all now living in england, then it only makes sense that the Slimey labour mp's should join them, for they will not be welcomed back here in SCOTLAND, after INDEPENDENCE!!!!
22

,

01/06/2008 04:45:24
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,

01/06/2008 04:47:08
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,

01/06/2008 04:49:14
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dougie1976,

01/06/2008 05:07:47
Disgraceful anti-Scottish racism.

After Thatcher's disastrous performances was it ever suggested that she get rid of her "English mafia". This was an anti-Scottish party that no-one in Scotland voted for, yet we were stuck with it for 25 years. And if we dared complain about what was basically an English dictatorship we were just "whinging jocks".

What hypocrisy.

Instead of standing up to this vicious anti-Scottish racism, Brown has played to it. It is now a frenzy.

The sooner we are out this vile union, the better.
26

Jimmy the Pie,

01/06/2008 05:14:31
From the Independent.

Tories include Clegg in hung parliament plans


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-include-clegg-in-hung-parliament-plans-837810.html


And I thought New Labour Sleaze and Corruption owned the Libdums??
27

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 01/06/2008 06:59:43
If the SNP was calling for quotas that ensure that Scots make up a given percentage of top positions in Scottish public life there would be an outcry.

I thought one of the 'benefits' of the union was inclusion on a bigger stage - obviously not if you are a 'talented' (ahem) Scottish Labour politician.

What happened to true equality - advancement through personal ability?.

This racism that should make Westminister Labour Scots sick. Will we here critisism of this from them? - no.

What a bunch of complete and utter muppets.

28

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 07:28:27

Who is plagiarising whom?

This story is almost exactly word for word the same as the lead story in the Sunday Times.

Has this once decent newspaper been reduced to publishing Labour press releases and stealing their rival’s copy?

Shame.
29

Pol J,

Glasgow 01/06/2008 07:40:46
How hard up is SoS. I read this story word for word last night in the Sunday Times. And SoS have the cheek to put TWO nmaes on the byline. Presumably one to press cut and the other to press paste.

You should be ashamed.
30

Pol J,

Glasgow 01/06/2008 07:41:34
Some examples

SoS - LABOUR figures have called on Gordon Brown to purge the "Scots Mafia" around him in an effort to curry favour with voters south of the border.

ST - Gordon Brown is under pressure to axe the so-called Scots mafia who dominate his top team of ministers and to promote “English voices” into more high-profile roles.

SoS - The Prime Minister is being urged to give key jobs to ministers seen as able to reach out to Middle England amid concern that the party will face a landslide general election defeat at the hands of David Cameron's Conservatives.

ST - Amid concern that Labour is risking a landslide general election defeat, Brown is being urged to give key jobs to ministers who can reach out to middle-class voters in England’s marginal seats.

SoS - Stephen Ladyman, a former minister and the Labour MP for the marginal English seat of South Thanet, said: "It is important to recognise that the election is won or lost in England. We need to have English voices speaking and giving messages that make sense in English communities."

ST - Stephen Ladyman, a former roads minister who is MP for Thanet South, a marginal constituency, said: “It is important to recognise that the election is won or lost in England. We need to have English voices speaking and giving messages that make sense in English communities.”

31

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01/06/2008 07:48:36
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32

Jock's Away,

Africa 01/06/2008 07:56:50
When empires decay and rot there must be a cause or scapegoat or both. The national label has been used rather than them all being, CHANCERS. The glories, honor, and values of the Union what ever they were are fast diminishing, The past is to learn from, The future starts today, Scotland as a region of Europe and not as a province of Westminister. But be careful of the wish, pimps and parliamentarians operate in the same way no matter what nationality.
Note: RACE is an anthropological term to catergorise human beings into sub physical groups defined by nature not national groups defined by geopolitical borders . Terms and language corrupted by politicians for interest groups.
33

gus1940,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 08:05:37
So much for the 'glorious union'

Another brilliant own goal for Labour in Scotland.
34

,

01/06/2008 08:07:07
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35

Geoff,

sa 01/06/2008 08:18:05
I do not believe that Scots-English racism is a significant factor in the current debate per se, although Nationalist on both sides of the border will stir things to suit their agendas. Inasmuch as English-Scots tensions have risen over recent years it can be attributed to one major issue-the lack of an English Parliament. Such a Parliament is inevitable. Once this Parliament is established the proverbial wind will be taken out of Nationalist sails and Westminster can revert to its correct and proper role as the BRITISH parliament. In a British parliament the composition of the cabinet-Cornish,Scots Yorkshire would be of no consequence and this issue would then no longer be able of exploitation by wicked Nats!!!
36

Geoff,

sa 01/06/2008 08:36:27
Morning traquir! never took you for a "Telegraph" man!?
37

Geoff,

sa 01/06/2008 08:46:04
41 Traquir-Iraq was a bizarre abberation that was opposed by peoples from all over the UK. I could make no sense of Tony Blairs support for this adventure and in retrospect it is a decision that is now seen in hindsight to have been a disaster by virtually all the peoples of Britain. What I am trying to say(rather inelegantly) is that we are all on the same page here. Federation would combine and continue the many common elements of our British heritage-the military being a proud example of this heritage.
38

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 01/06/2008 08:48:15
#42 Which paper DO rabid Nats read.
39

Geoff,

sa 01/06/2008 08:56:52
Hi Traquir-the reference to 'wicked Nats' was meant in the nicest possible way and to apply to those of the Nationalist persuasion in all four home nations-no insult intended-some of my best friends etc..!!

What you are saying is that Scots are inherently(culturally and biologically?) different from their cousins elsewhere in the british isles. Political nuances in a small island are probably due in the main to economic influences and their associated cultural traits. I do not believe that there is anything inherent in a Scotsmans makeup that would by nature make him more opposed to nuclear weapons than an englishman. I am an ethnic Scot schooled in both of the "Isles" and brought up in the colonies. I support Britains continued ownership of nuclear weapons on purely pragmatic grounds. Its a dangerous world and the mad others will have the nuclear option so thus must we! I again am prob on the same page as you in regarding them as frankensteins playthings
40

Cadgers,

Auchterarder 01/06/2008 08:56:57

Traquir,
Alba 01/06/2008 08:34:44...

Very well said sir!
41

Calum10,

01/06/2008 08:58:24
Labour's political transformation is now complete it is now THE LITTLE ENGLANDER PARTY.
42

Alan Reid,

NZ 01/06/2008 08:58:49
Hello AM it would seem that I was right. The English are biggoted and with "Brown urged to get rid of Scottish mafia" my statment confirms this. Only problem for Brown is, he's a "Sweaty" and the people of middle England don't want a Jock as PM.
So much for your Union of equals.
43

Geoff,

01/06/2008 09:02:58
45 Mercutio-Morning! The Scottish Socialist Voice? :)
44

Geoff,

sa 01/06/2008 09:06:32
Traquir-not stalling, but my wife requests and requires that I take her to brunch-will answer you later!Hope yous are getting some summer.
45

iang,

Glasgow 01/06/2008 09:07:24
"One Labour MP, who asked not to be named, reportedly said: "We live in a world where there is a quota for women MPs and there may soon be quotas for black MPs. Why should there not be quotas for the English too? The Scots Mafia have dominated Brown's team for too long.""

What does Labour in Scotland say to this with their support of the Union?


"Labour MP for the marginal English seat of South Thanet, said: "It is important to recognise that the election is won or lost in England. We need to have English voices speaking and giving messages that make sense in English communities.""

And this is exactly why Scotland needs a strong independent voice.
46

Geoff,

sa 01/06/2008 09:19:13
Traquir-agin my wifes wrath a quick comment.I did not mean anything remotely racist in my 'biologically' comment. I am only trying to understand the nature of 'inherent' differences. If they are (obviously) not biological then they must relate to environment in the broad sense of the word. If that is the case then there is nothing to stop Scots in the future from becoming more right wing in a changing environment.
47

Chalmers,

01/06/2008 09:19:48
Gordon Brown must answer English Question

By Frank Field

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/06/01/do0104.xml
48

Ananurhing,

01/06/2008 09:26:03
Interesting that the only "bungs" going around the labour party these days are the ones attempting to keep their sinking ship afloat.
This isn't quite the 'reform' needed. This is patch and make do, and hope against hope that they can make it through.
Desperate stuff from a bankrupt party with nowhere to go.
49

Roballe,

Aberdeen 01/06/2008 09:47:26
Racism? You’re behind the times. Just as global warming was redefined as climate change, people now prefer to talk about tribal affiliation. People are not racist, as such, that’s a negative concept. However, seeking the security of a tribal affiliation in our modern-day global environment is understandable.

Given the current RBS debacle, difficulties attributed in part to what’s seen as a chauvinistic bias against appointing anyone who is not Scottish to the top table, so too the failure of New Labour is being blamed on its predominate so-called tartan mafia. Even the disastrous Crewe & Nantwich campaign was masterminded by a Scot, a man who totally misread the local electorate and failed to appreciate a growing divergence in cultures. Current negative press reflects the growing fashion to associate Scots with failure. It will pass soon enough, but for the moment remains bad news for those lucrative voiceovers by Scottish thespians.
50

Ananurhing,

01/06/2008 09:56:44
#62 Rules
'I have a dream'

So you'd be willing to debate civilly with those of us less intelligent than you?

As has been pointed out many times, independence would be a necessary precursor to exploring any federal options.
51

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 01/06/2008 09:57:45
#52 Geoff. Me Socialist? God forbid I am a Telegraph reader who supports the Union but would rather have independence than devolution.
52

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01/06/2008 10:13:05
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01/06/2008 10:18:30
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54

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 10:36:14
39

"I agree there are too many Scots in the Cabinet."

I thought we were all supposed to be British?
Isnt the cabinet not comprised of British nationals then? or is there at last an admitance by the UK establishment that there is to be a distinction in being British English and British Scots when it comes to sharing power within the UK?
55

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 10:40:08
62

Something along these lines you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_the_Netherlands
56

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 10:43:10
62

And how do you propose to do all of that without first disolving the act of union?
57

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 10:46:40
75

Now youre just establishing your credentials as a troll. That statement has no value other than to sh!t stir. You know nations cannot become a Federation without giving up their individual nationalities so now you try to deny there are no individual nations within the UNION of KINGDOMS.
Like I said you are posting now only to sh!t stir and not to debate.
58

Plainthinking,

edinburgh 01/06/2008 10:47:09
75. re nationhood
i gather you refer to the modern socio-democratic state as evolved over last 150 years or so, but for example that logic would extend to all colonial independence movements, are we to revisit that as well?
59

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 10:52:39
How many posters on here are working for the Scotsman and how many are on here looking for genuine debate?
60

Rodster,

Glasgow 01/06/2008 10:53:59
So if I were to suggest that we should not have any Blacks , Asians ,Jews or Catholics in government because they are minorities this would be ok?
But Unionists like Barnes here and other Uncle Tom's do not feel the outrage at such comments.
They promote a Union that wants to exclude us from any meaningful input?
Why does anyone in Scotland want to vote Unionist it is beyond my reasoning.
61

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 10:54:28
Oh dearie me. As the Labour Party unravels so doth the Union.

A major demonstration of how little the English understand (we know they don't care) how the Scots think.

Brown even being ASKED to purge his cabinet of Scots will go down like a lead balloon in Scotland never mind if he actually does it.

62

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 10:57:18
75

Is Scotland a Kingdom or not?
63

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01/06/2008 10:57:48
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64

Hamish Scott,

01/06/2008 11:01:42
4 Scots in the Cabinet (out of 23) - and Defence, International Development, the Economy and the office of Prime Minister are all UK wide issues. If this constitutes a 'Scottish mafia' it suggests a remarkable level of intolerance.
It also suggests that Scottish politicians will effectively be barred from the senior Cabinet posts including PM and severely restricted in number. This will lead to Scottish politicians seeing their best prospects as being within the Scottish Parliament, which they will then want to increase the powers of to increase their own stature. Hardly a unionist masterstroke down south, or have they seen the writing on the wall?
65

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 11:02:53
When Cameron and the English national party take control after the next election how many Scots Irish or Welsh will be in their cabinet?
66

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01/06/2008 11:03:46
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01/06/2008 11:04:05
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Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 11:05:43
Jack Straw said something very interesting on the Andrew Marr programme today. It concerned dropping the first past the post system for Westminster in favour of a more democratic preferential voting system.

Is he looking to the 'not too far off day' day when Labour has to try and defeat the Tories without the help of its normally large Scottish representation?

This could be the last major piece of legislation by this Labour government to maximise its Party's number of MPs at future Westminster elections following Scottish Independence.
69

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01/06/2008 11:09:51
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70

Mike555,

01/06/2008 11:10:40
Liebor should just ditch G. Brown, A. Darling, D. Alexander, and D. Browne. They won't be missed and none of the forgoing will be remembered in 10 years anyway.
71

Nikostratos,

01/06/2008 11:10:45
Change the term Scot with Black and would this story have ever been written let alone printed.
72

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 11:12:26
84

No it is not necessary to discuss Federal options only after Independence but it sure as sh!t requires Independence from this union in order to implement a Federal option.
73

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01/06/2008 11:18:21
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01/06/2008 11:51:22
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01/06/2008 11:54:24
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Dougie, Edinburgh,

01/06/2008 12:04:33
Ironic that so many of the "English" alternatives are not ethnically English at all: Miliband, Straw and Vaz for example.
77

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 01/06/2008 12:05:34
Everyone in Scotland should remember Ladyman's comments.

Sums up exactly WHY we need out of this union.
78

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01/06/2008 12:10:03
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79

Publius,

London 01/06/2008 12:15:42
This article and most of the posts on the board are drivel. Brown isn't under fire from some Labour MPs because he's a Scot. He's under fire because he's leading them over a cliff. Scottishness is a cover for their discontent. If Brown was winning by-elections they would be gurgling about canniness, steadfastness and all the 'good' characteristics of the Scottish stereotype.
80

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01/06/2008 12:17:19
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81

Boggle fey the Bog,

01/06/2008 12:29:42
97 Rulesbutnotrulers,Federation, not separation 01/06/2008 12:02:29

A nation also has its own armed forces, international agreements,UN seat, EU seat, currency, etc. Scotland has never had all of these. True, some warlords in the past have passed themselves off as kings (mostly foreigners like Bruce, etc), but by modern standards a nation? No.

You don't half talk garbage puddin heid!
I suppose England has got an indigenous monarchy then, not a German one!!! Or indeed that The Stewarts were just 'Foriegn Warlords', as I said you talk shee i te!!

Scotland is one of the oldest Nation's in the World, even older than 'England', the Scottish Saltire is one of the oldest national flags in the world, we had one before England was even thought of!!!

As for International agreements, we had those with France, Spain, Scandinavia, The German States, etc. We had a Standing Army and a Scottish Military and Mercantile Fleet ALL Before the FCUKIN UNION.

You are a shyster and Onionist apologist and I would suggests that you Actually start to do some research before you start spouting your total drivel, concerning 'Federation' or decrying Scotland.

Begone you apology for human being, and total waste of skin.
82

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 12:35:49
103

Is Scotland a Kingdom or not?
83

Publius,

London 01/06/2008 12:36:43
#97 Boggle Boggle
The Stewarts originated in France. The Hanoverians in Germany. So what?
The royal family isn't that much different from the rest of us. One in four children now born in the UK has at least one parent who was born outside the UK.
84

Boggle fey the Bog,

01/06/2008 12:40:48
Rulesbutnotrulers,Federation, not separation 01/06/2008 12:28:49
#100 Madman. Sorry. The answer was meant to your question as in #84.

What parts of my various ansers don't you understand?

#102.

"You make my point. Scotland has never been a nation as now understood. For example it had NEVER until the Union had agreed borders. Also, much of the 16C 17C fighting was between Scots so then clearly not a united country, as is required for the defintion. For upwards of thirty thousand years Briton was one nation in terms of shared culture, religion, language, borders, etc. Two thousand years ago Rome (church and state) began to tear us apart; sadly SNP continues this mindless destruction."


You are talking compleat sh i te now me owld son, you are making this up as you go along aren't you!!!

You will be telling us all next that Boadicea is the rightful King of Scotland.

Britain was never a country, what is known as Britain is a result of English Imperialist expansion from the 10c onwards.

If the best that you can do is work for this rag, as that is the conclusion that I am drawing along with others, is that you are here only to up the 'site hits' to try to keep your apology for a newspaper going.

However with the latest 'sales figures' you'll soon be on the 'dole'.

As a by I am still waiting fro the answers to the questions about your successful 'Federations' such as Belgium, which is currently collapsing under the weight of it's 'Federalism'.

Be gone Numptie!!!
85

Dougie, Edinburgh,

01/06/2008 12:47:56
101 Publius
Yes and no. If Brown were popular, they'd shut up about their resentment. Since he's unpopular they're free to attack him on ethnic grounds.

The Labour Party is home to many competing political traditions and subgroups. Some of these define themselves at least partly on an ethnic basis.

Currently, the party is dominated by Scots at a national (ie. UK) level however their hold is quite tenuous because of their likely upcoming election defeat. Other ethnic groups with designs on greater influence in the party include Jews and Asians.

To get an idea of Labour Party politics at a local level outside Scotland have a read of:

http://www.birminghampost.net/news/politics-news/2008/04/28/asian-village-politics-and-its-effect-on-postal-voting-65233-20830149/

When a shameless promoter of his own narrow ethnic group’s interest like Keith Vaz calls for less of another ethnic group in positions of power, based explicitly on the ethnicity of the people involved, I’m reminded of the squalid struggle between various ethnic groups (Russian, Jewish, Georgian) for control of the Communist party after the success of the Russian Revolution.
86

Boggle fey the Bog,

01/06/2008 12:52:09
106 Publius,London 01/06/2008 12:36:43
#97 Boggle Boggle
The Stewarts originated in France. The Hanoverians in Germany. So what?
The royal family isn't that much different from the rest of us. One in four children now born in the UK has at least one parent who was born outside the UK.

Thais not the point, the point is that the Stuarts, were not 'Foriegn Warlords', but were the Kings Stewards, and became the Royal Family of Scotland, given that the recognised birthplace of the Stuart Dynasty is the Royal Burgh of Renfrew, Renfrew Castle being their 'Home Turf', or as it is know locally as the 'Cradle of the Stuarts'.

The first of the Stuart Kings was born in Scotland, the First of the present encumbents at Buck House was born in Brunswick-Luneberg in 1660
87

Boggle fey the Bog,

01/06/2008 12:52:34
106 Publius,London 01/06/2008 12:36:43
#97 Boggle Boggle
The Stewarts originated in France. The Hanoverians in Germany. So what?
The royal family isn't that much different from the rest of us. One in four children now born in the UK has at least one parent who was born outside the UK.

Thais not the point, the point is that the Stuarts, were not 'Foriegn Warlords', but were the Kings Stewards, and became the Royal Family of Scotland, given that the recognised birthplace of the Stuart Dynasty is the Royal Burgh of Renfrew, Renfrew Castle being their 'Home Turf', or as it is know locally as the 'Cradle of the Stuarts'.

The first of the Stuart Kings was born in Scotland, the First of the present encumbents at Buck House was born in Brunswick-Luneberg in 1660
88

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01/06/2008 12:53:52
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89

John S,

01/06/2008 12:54:12
#89-This is from the Labour Party 1997 Manifesto.
We are committed to a referendum on the voting system for the House of Commons. An independent commission on voting systems will be appointed early to recommend a proportional alternative to the first-past-the-post system.
The Labour Party 2001 manifesto did not make such a commitment.
90

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 12:58:55
107

Is Scotland a Kingdom or not?
91

,

01/06/2008 13:13:42
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,

01/06/2008 13:17:48
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Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 13:26:22
117

Is Scotland a Kingdom or not?
94

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 13:37:32
119

Is Britain a Kingdom?
95

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 14:02:20
119

What is an "accurate" history book?
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ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 01/06/2008 14:03:04
Rulesbutnotrulers.

If you ask the people of Shetland etc if they were to be British or Scottish they would be happier to stick with Scotland.

They might not see themselves as Scots but would support being apart of Scotland rather then Britain.
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b.allan,

alba 01/06/2008 14:04:36
Ah, so they want scots in the union, just not in any positions of power? It won't matter when we have INDEPENDENCE anyway!
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Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 14:12:36
Fakey Fed

If Scots dont exist as Scots then why do you object to Scots being part of the UK Government cabinet?
Why do you descibe yourself as Scots and well as British what does that mean if it isnt a nationality?
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Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 14:15:15
Fakey Fed

Would it be fair to describe the word Scotland as meaning "Land of the Scots" and not "Land of the British"?
100

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 14:16:27
119

How many Orcadians and Shetlanders have you spoken to who regard themselves as other than Scots?
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Publius,

London 01/06/2008 14:17:32
#109 Dougie

Your post is one of the few interesting ones today. I agree that the Labour Party is very much a coalition of interests - much like the Democrats in the US. And in the last 10 or 20 years Labour has emphasised ethnic diversity (or multiculturalism) as something to be proud of. So it is not surprising that at least some English labourites resent this.
For a few the unresolved West Lothian question rankles, but most Labour MPs are now staring into the abyss. They have a choice. Being virtually wiped out with Brown or being defeated with another leader and surviving to fight another day.
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Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 14:18:43
Fakey Fed

What is the Saltire if it isnt the NATIONAL flag of Scotland (The land of the Scots)?
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ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 01/06/2008 14:26:03
Commited to Independence,Scotland

The Saltire is my only flag.

I keep it hanging from my window to keep the Unionists away.
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01/06/2008 14:28:27
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Gael,

England 01/06/2008 14:34:13
I have not heard that David Cameron must change his 13 Etonian Front Benchers nor the number of his Etonians in the back offices.
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Matt there,

somewhere 01/06/2008 14:35:05
"However, some English MPs privately question their ability to communicate with voters south of the border..." and in Wales, and Scotland and...

The problem is not that Brown has a so-called Scots Mafia" but that he has surrounded himself with utter buffoons.

I know a businessman who employs a marketing firm that is rubbish, a computer and ISP service provider that is dire, a contract cleaning company that does not clean very well and a form of accountants that is utterly useless and which costs him money.

Why does he employ these duffers? Because they are run by mates of his.

And this is exactly what Brown does. He employs people not because they are any good, but because they are mates of his.
107

worlass,

Sandbanks Dorset 01/06/2008 14:51:13
It had to come,the English have had enough of the winging,whining,benefit culture ingrained,workshy jocks protectd by their fellow countrymen in Westminster.
The English populace,generaly do not like the "tartan millstone"and would dearly like to get rid of it.
It took a while but after a claim of "racism"by one halfwitted poster!the the "Scottish oil"was raised by another equally deluded simpleton.The only claim on any of the oil reserves is that it is "landed in Scotland" but have no legitimate claim on any such landings.
As for the MP's earmarked for replacing:- Darling,Browne and Martin at the end of his tenure will be joined by Brown himselve soon as.
If a referendum was indeed carried out in England the Scotland would be independant from England quick smart.Even the Welsh and Northern Irish would not form an alliance of any sort with the parish council at Holyrood when the failed bank clerk went down on his knees begging for support.
Ditch Scotland now and ease the English tax burdon.
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Neil C.,

Aberdeenshire 01/06/2008 14:52:46
Could I just ask where all these happy Britons were living 30,000 years ago? Was it under the ice sheet which covered our islands until about 18,000 years ago?

I imagine the rest of Rules etc.'s post is as accurate as his 30k claim.
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01/06/2008 15:00:00
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Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 15:03:28
Fakey Fed

What was Ireland before it became the Rep of Ireland and Ulster?
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brownlie,

01/06/2008 15:09:22
133 AM2

Welcome back. For goodness sake, stop being so reasonable and go back to the old AM2 so that we can have something to snipe at!!
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01/06/2008 15:11:33
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THE TROLL HUNTER,

ALBA 01/06/2008 15:23:14
Keith Vaz, if anyone should understand how racist and offensive this is to Scots.

The problem will be resolved at the next election, with the SNP now 9 points ahead of Labour on the Westminster vote, they may well get there Anglo voices but they will be dancing to a Scottish jig.

Where is the CRE?

They were quick to get out of their pram before the 2006 World Cup warning Scots they would be prosecuted for being beastly to the Anglo's. They then kept quite when the Anglo's went to Germany wearing Dambusters shirts, singing Dambusters songs and wearing bomber uniforms, causing offense to the Germans with their usual knuckle dragging oik behavior.

Wrap it in a Union Jack or the Cross of St. George and watch the shaving headed louts party. The fascist Brit Nat Anglo's on tour. BNA/ BNP same thing really.
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Raymond Thomas Brooke,

Leven England 01/06/2008 15:26:53
So many people missing the point in trying to make this an England v Scotland affair this is not the case it is merely the Labour party clutching at straws to save their seats and therefore their licence to print money(for themselves).We are not that bothered who or what nationality is in the cabinet it makes no difference. The problem has been and always will be the devolution that has ocurred for the other 3 nations with out the opportunity to have the same for England plus the anomalies that are financed by the Barnett Formula.Equality for all would solve the problem by which I mean Independence.
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mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 15:40:48
It would be much better to purge the Fabian/New World Order mafia from our Government.
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Hamish Scott,

01/06/2008 15:45:29
A nation is a community of people who consider themselves a nation. A nation is self-validating. Attempts to invalidate Scotland as a nation are at best offensive and at worst sinister.
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TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 01/06/2008 15:45:45
What an unfortunate term for envious Labour leaders to term a group of your MPs as the "Scots Mafia".

This group of Scots is probably the most accomplished and uncorruptible and sensible group at Westminster.

I suggest they get rid of that jealous group of Labour "leaders" who are running a rudderless ship manned and womaned by brain-damaged navigators.

Hope they end up in the shallows without a paddle.
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The Scotchman,

01/06/2008 15:51:01
"At present there are four Scots in the cabinet, including Brown and Darling." ~ The Media

Brown as we know is North British, a Raith Rovers supporter and wrongly withholding billions of Scottish dosh. He is not in it for Scotland at all. The man is a traitor of the highest order and should be brought to trial with the rest of them when independence comes.

Darling - born in England, brought-up in Scotland, becomes Scottish. He's as Scottish as Rod Stewart. Blair - born in Scotland, brought-up in England becomes Scottish. Hmm! Two different things but the same answer.

Methinks the English mafia.. I mean media... please themselves who is and isn't Scottish. Only a matter of time before flavour of the month Cameron does wrong and becomes Scottish. End of the day. they all have Scottish grannies!
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livilion,

livingston 01/06/2008 15:54:28
97 Rulesbutnotrulers
>>some warlords in the past have passed themselves off as kings (mostly foreigners like Bruce, etc), but by modern standards a nation? No.<<

The Scottish born Bruce had a gaelic speaking Scottish mother and his family had been in Scotland for centuries when he took the Scottish crown, certainly far longer than the current Queen of Scots' Saxe-Coburg and Gotha lineage and her husband Philip's Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg.
Just how long do royalty need to be resident here to stop being 'foreign'?

The Treaty of Edinburgh-Northampton 1328 officially constituted Scotland an independent sovereign nation by treaty with Edward III of England.
97 Rulesbutnotrulers
>>some warlords in the past have passed themselves off as kings (mostly foreigners like Bruce, etc), but by modern standards a nation? No.<<

The Scottish born Bruce had a gaelic speaking Scottish mother and his family had been in Scotland for centuries when he took the Scottish crown, certainly far longer than the current Queen of Scots' Saxe-Coburg and Gotha lineage and her husband Philip's Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg.
Just how long do royalty need to be resident here to stop being 'foreign'?

The Treaty of Edinburgh-Northampton 1328 officially constituted Scotland an independent sovereign nation by treaty with King Edward III and England.


120

livilion,

livingston 01/06/2008 15:56:45



Treaty of Edinburgh-Northampton 1328


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To all Christ's faithful people who shall see these letters, Edward, by the grace of God, King of England, Lord of Ireland, Duke of Acquitaine, greeting and peace everlasting in the Lord.
Whereas, we and some of our predecessors, Kings of England, have endeavoured to establish rights of rule or dominion or superiority over the realm of Scotland, whence dire conflicts of wars waged have afflicted for a long time the Kingdoms of England and Scotland:
we, having regard to the slaughter, disasters, crimes, destruction of churches and evils innumerable which, in the course of such wars, have repeatedly befallen the subjects of both realms, and to the wealth with which each realm, if united by the assurance of perpetual peace, might abound to their mutual advantage, thereby rendering them more secure against the hurtful efforts of those conspiring to rebel or to attack, whether from within or without:
We will and grant by these presents, for us, our heirs and successors whatsover, with the common advice, assent and consent of the prelates, princes, earls, barons and the commons of our realm in our Parliament, that the Kingdom of Scotland, within its own proper marches as they were held and maintained in the time of King Alexander of Scotland, last deceased, of good memory, shall belong to our dearest ally and friend, the magnificent prince, Lord Robert, by God's grace illustrious King of Scotland, and to his heirs and successors, separate in all things from the Kingdom of England, whole, free and undisturbed in perpetuity, without any kind of subjection, service claim or demand.
And by these presents we denounce and demit to the King of Scotland, his heirs and successors, whatsoever right we or our predecessors have put forward in any way in bygone times to the aforesaid Kingdom of Scotland. And, for ourselves and our heirs and succ
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livilion,

livingston 01/06/2008 15:59:09
Treaty of Edinburgh-Northampton, 1328

And by these presents we denounce and demit to the King of Scotland, his heirs and successors, whatsoever right we or our predecessors have put forward in any way in bygone times to the aforesaid Kingdom of Scotland. And, for ourselves and our heirs and successors, we cancel wholly and utterly all obligations, conventions and compacts undertaken in whatsoever manner with our predecessors, at whatsoever times, by whatsoever Kings or inhabitants, clergy or laity, of the same Kingdom of Scotland, concerning the subjection of the realm of Scotland and its inhabitants. And wheresoever any letters, charters, deeds or instruments may be discovered bearing upon obligations, conventions and compacts of this nature, we will that they be deemed cancelled, invalid, of no effect and void, and of no value or moment. And for the full, peaceful and faithful observance of the foregoing, all and singular, for all time we have given full power and special command by our other letters patent to our well-beloved and faithful Henry de Percy our kinsman, and William de la Zouche of Ashby and to either of them make oath upon our soul. In testimony whereof we have caused these letters patent to be executed.




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Hamish Scott,

01/06/2008 16:00:16
#152

"Why must one wade through ignorance and rudeness on these postings?"

Well stop posting, as your posts are the most ignorant ones on here combined with a denigrating attitude to Scotland. You must work for the Scotsman.
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livilion,

livingston 01/06/2008 16:10:09
155 Rulesbutnotrulers,
No he wasn't, his great, great, great, great, grandfather the first Lord Annandale might have been but there's a ferr bit of speculation about this point on whether De Brus may have been from Normandy or whether he was in fact Flemmish.
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01/06/2008 16:10:29
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01/06/2008 16:14:15
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Neil C.,

Aberdeenshire 01/06/2008 16:31:51
Rules, etc. learn a bit of geology. The British Isles were completely uninhabitable 30k years ago.
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livilion,

livingston 01/06/2008 16:36:01
157 Traquir,Alba
Unfortunately I suspect that James VI put in train a sequence of events whereby Scots put in charge of England suck up to the locals at Scotland's expense.

Almost as soon as the ink was dry on the Treaty of Union it was broken with London imposing illegal taxes on Scots to pay for English military adventures against Scotland's former trading partners, the spirit of which has been enthusiastically embraced more recently by our 'Anglos' in Whitehall.

The difference now is that ordinary Scots for the first time since that Treaty was ratified, and universal male and then female sufferage was granted between the two world wars, have it within their power to have that treaty dissolved simply by voting for it.
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malcolmcean,

01/06/2008 16:41:55
I think that the federation person ('Rulesbutnotthe') should perhaps be cut a little slack.

I do not think that the person has really thought through the implications of his/her position. There is a certain naivety informing their political philosophy.

The rather absurd attacks upon the idea of Scotland as a nation are clearly an ill thought-out, emotional reaction against those who question the validity of the federal argument.

I think that I also detect a certain antipathy towards the idea of Scotland as a concept (foreigners to Britain; parts of it not really being 'Scottish' - Orkney etc; its equal status with dark-age post-Roman and pre-Angevin babarian kingdoms).

All in all, considering the rather amateurish self-presentation as a political aspirant,the rather intemprate anti-Scottish outburst, and the unthinking attachment to a Liberal flagship policy, I think that we can piece together a rather clear picture of the person.

The federation person is clearly a young student - originally from England, now lving and studying in Scotland - and perhaps a member of the youth wing of the Liberal party.

We should appreciate this before judging him/her too harshly.

Hopefully a few more years of experience in Scotland, perhaps taking a Scottish history option (I think that the person is probably a sub-honours student), and progressively apprehending the democratizing, egalitarian spirit the Scottish education system instils in one, then a lot of this anti-Scottish, whooly and overly emotive attitude will be replaced with a more mature, pragmatic, and sympathetic approach.
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livilion,

livingston 01/06/2008 16:43:54
163 Neil C.
Sorry to be a pedant, but there were no British isles 30k ago seeing as there was no North Sea or English Channel etc until the end of the last ice age when sea levels then rose to creat the geography we now recognise.
Where we now live was just a sticky out bit on the north western coast of Europe.
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livilion,

livingston 01/06/2008 16:55:15
161 McMadman,
Aye well, mebbes aye mebbes naw, given the penchant during the middle ages for all things Francophonic(how do you pronounce Lamont?) and their duff spelling De Brus could just as easily have been a corruption of 'De Brugges'.
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Conan the Librarian™,

01/06/2008 17:00:04
165
He certainly cherrypicks from history, that is true.
The Island of Briton(sic)was one big happy family until the evil Scotti arrived.Or was it the Romans...? Maybe the Saxons.Or Jutes.Or Angles.
No wait a minute, the Norse!
Hmm... but then that would contradict that Orkney and Shetland were never part of "Briton".
Damn.
Lets blame the Normans!
Or the Flemish.
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yoric,

01/06/2008 17:01:19
Their is no demand in England to be governed by the Scots, just as their is no demand in Scotland to be governed by the English.

You cannot have it both ways.
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01/06/2008 17:07:15
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01/06/2008 17:11:42
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Conan the Librarian™,

01/06/2008 17:39:54
173
LOL Meths
Do you know the defination of "walnut"?

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livilion,

livingston 01/06/2008 17:40:43
172 McMadman
Sounds reasonable to me.

Personally I reckon the reason we have so many Scots in Westminster is down to the lack of any real political debate in England's essentially two party state for thirty-odd years, when Westminster was filled with yesmen who toed their party lines and said what they were briefed to say by the whips.'If he's for it then I'm against it' just about summs it up.

In Scotland on the other hand during the great devolution debates there was a requirement to be able to actually put a case in a fourway debate and to stand up to cross-examination of the most rigorous kind.

The Scots who were any good were also shunted off down south to prevent challenges to unionist party leaders here in Scotland, which I think goes some way to explaining why the SNP appear to be having such an easy time of it at home these days.
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livilion,

livingston 01/06/2008 17:55:54
Methalions

Interesting how language changes over time.
Remember this:

>> In Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all. Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" — bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez — tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli. Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.<<
A letter to The Economist, M.J. Shields
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01/06/2008 18:17:09
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Conan the Librarian™,

01/06/2008 18:30:35
182
He's either waukin his dug, or walking his dog...

And getting soaked if he is anywhere near me.
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01/06/2008 18:42:44
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Conan the Librarian™,

01/06/2008 19:00:10
187
Didn't Oscar mention that Rules was a Druid?

So what we have is a anarchic federalist who thinks SNP voters are illiterate and has a collection of sickles.

I hope his dog's safe.
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01/06/2008 19:03:35
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01/06/2008 19:14:23
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Hamish Scott,

01/06/2008 19:21:57
Maybe the dog was taking him (?) for a walk, he is an anarchist after all.
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Conan the Librarian™,

01/06/2008 19:23:08
194
Alberto
A zombie Chihuahua!
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foulkes had my name removed'the t0sser',

highlands of Scotland 01/06/2008 19:25:20
"It is important to recognise that the election is won or lost in England. We need to have English voices speaking and giving messages that make sense in English communities."

Saor Alba
This is what gave birth to the IRA!! You heard it here first folks!!!!!
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TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 01/06/2008 19:30:39
174 Methalions

You are showing off YET AGAIN!

All of us are not linguists or language "specialists".

I just happen to be both and would not inflict such esoteric language on this thread where the "lingua franca" is Received Standard English.

But you did provide a translation and for that we posters are grateful.

Shall I now post only in French to the consternation of most posters to counter your "Olde Englishe" and Middle English?
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Conan the Librarian™,

01/06/2008 19:34:54
195
Is his dog a terrierist?
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Conan the Librarian™,

01/06/2008 19:37:59
200,201
Nunc est bibendum;-)
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Conan the Librarian™,

01/06/2008 19:39:25
204
An Afghan hound then.
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Conan the Librarian™,

01/06/2008 19:42:07
...Or just a little Shih Tzu?
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Hamish Scott,

01/06/2008 19:44:31
LOST

British Bulldog wearing Union Jack coat. Last seen with a tw*t.

Reward for return (dog only)

Anne Archist
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Nikostratos,

01/06/2008 19:55:16
THE SCOTFATHER (2008)



Don McCorleone: I understand. You found paradise in England. You had a good trade, made a good living, the police protected you and there were courts of law and you didn't need a friend like me. But, now you come to me and you say "Don McCorleone, give me justice." But you don't ask with respect. You don't offer friendship. You don't even think to call me Scotfather. Instead, you come into my home on the day my daughter's to be married and you ask me to do murder for money.

EnglishMP: I ask you for justice.


Don McCorleone: That is not justice your daughter is still alive.

EnglishMP: Let them suffer then. As she suffers. How much shall I pay you?


Don McCorleone: EnglishMP. EnglishMP. What have I ever done to make you to treat me so disrespectfully. If you had come to me in friendship then this scum that ruined your daughter would be suffering this very day. And if by chance an honest man like yourself should make enemies then they would become my enemies. And then, they would fear you.


EnglishMP: Be my friend... Scotfather.
[kisses Don McCorleone's ring]
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Nikostratos,

01/06/2008 20:02:05
Memorable quotes for
No Country for Old Scots MPs (2007)



SCOTS MP: We goin' in?
ENGLISH MP: Gun out and up.
SCOTS MP: [Scots MP draws his pistol] What about yours?
ENGLISH MP: I'm hidin' behind you.
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01/06/2008 20:14:22
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01/06/2008 20:17:28
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01/06/2008 20:39:53
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01/06/2008 20:46:35
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01/06/2008 21:01:11
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

01/06/2008 21:06:56
215. What was wrong with it the first time?
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Ananurhing,

01/06/2008 21:10:47
What's all this? What have I missed?
Has Rules gone doggin' or what?
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Ananurhing,

01/06/2008 21:39:18
Caught up now. "No rulers" but he has no time for nihilists?

Nihilism means nothing to me too!
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WL,

livingstom 01/06/2008 22:43:05
The Scots mafia should of course be headed by Wendy and the English mafia by Gordon. How could they forget this!
164

celtic4,

USA 01/06/2008 23:48:18
My post disappeared! I was polite, but had an opinion. I said that (well in the first place Gordan Brown is English,not Scottish) but I felt perhaps it is a good thing to have both in Brown's cabinet. (here we go again)
130 McMadman, I totally agree with your statement

97 Rules...Robert the Bruce was Scottish! My word. As Scottish as they come!
I think we have digressed here into dogs and cars.
165

,

02/06/2008 01:12:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
166

dude,

wishy 02/06/2008 17:28:43
Imagine the supposedly main man in the westminster cabinet,

the man with his ahnd in everyones pocket

the man with a superior intellect to guide the uk's economy

the man with the big eye brows

the man with something to say about which he should keep out of

the man who describes another governments policies with the word 'daft' and he uses the word 'daft' when he attacks any policy from the SNP government

the man as they say in some parts of glasgow is a 'daftie'
167

wayne bijlyeerheid,

03/06/2008 09:47:03
what's the story?
Has no one ever read the "Guardian" "Independent" or listened to the BBC?
As disseminators of blatant anti-Scots propaganda these three bastions of English "tolerance and liberallism" take equal first place with the composer of the third verse of the "National" anthem.
168

kimba,

03/06/2008 12:12:06
230. Cosidering 50 million English folk pay thr BBC a butt load each year, compared to 5 million scots,guess we get to call the tune!
169

Deekie fae Midstocket,

Aberdeen 03/06/2008 12:17:50
Why, all of a sudden,this reaction to the anti-Scottish racism of the English press? Scotland has always been treated with contempt by English journalists. What is more remarkable-and so desperately sad-is that most Scots accept it and do not react in the way any self-respecting nation would. If we don't do something about it, then we deserve what we get.
170

kimba,

03/06/2008 12:24:20
232. With a mere 5 million,not a lot you can do about it!
171

kimba,

03/06/2008 12:36:40
230,from the guardian: So we English must ask ourselves this question: would Scottish independence be good for England? On balance, my answer is no. I don't accept the proposition that a nasty, racist lion of English nationalism would necessarily be awakened as a result of separation. Those would remain minority voices. Nor do I think that the slight loss of international power and influence for a post-UK England weighs much in the balance. But I do think that England would be culturally the poorer for the separation - just as, in my experience, the Czech Republic is today culturally the poorer, less polychrome, simply less interesting, as a result of its velvet divorce from Slovakia. Anti scottish may a--e!
172

wayne bijlyeerheid,

03/06/2008 13:05:49
#234
I'm not talking about one unprovenanced story, I'm talking about week on week, whether it's airhead Simon Hoggart in classic English chauvinist or the editorial comment in pseudo liberal, not to mention self loather Ian Jack they have one thing in common they use language against Scots that they would not dream of using qagainst any other national group.
173

kimba,

03/06/2008 13:20:51
235. And ofcourse all scottish rags never say anything anti-english!
174

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 03/06/2008 15:59:41
236

Which "Scottish rag" did you have in mind Kimba?
No "Scottish rags" are controlled nor owned by Scots and certainly not Scottish nationalists.
175

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 03/06/2008 16:02:03
233

Ireland only has a population of 3 million yet they did something about it. Bit woosie of the English to let 3 million Irishmen and women dictate to them eh?
Is that the extent of yer mentality?
176

kimba,

03/06/2008 19:26:06
commited to independence. Ireland was more trouble than it was worth,apart from being a catholic country,where Britain was protestant,as for a biased scottish rag,the Herald comes to mind!
177

bluehead,

edinburgh 12/06/2008 11:43:55
the world of politics is run on the same principle as the mafia with the godfather,the under bosses and the lower ranks to do the dirty work.
if you study this you will see the similarities, you can choose which you think is the worse

 

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