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Downing St not above law warn police

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Published Date:
21 January 2007
POLICE chiefs last night publicly warned the Labour Party that "no one is above the law" as the cash-for-honours inquiry erupted into open warfare between Downing Street and the Met.
After senior Labour figures lined up to criticise the "theatrical" arrest of Tony Blair's aide Ruth Turner, the chairman of the Metropolitan Police Authority launched an unprecedented counterattack, suggesting the party was trying to "manipulate" and "pressurise" officers.

Len Duvall - in remarks believed to reflect growing fury within Scotland Yard - urged those who had questioned the conduct of police to "reflect on what they have said".

The long-running inquiry took a dramatic twist early on Friday when Turner was arrested at her London home at 6.30am, taken to a police station and questioned on suspicion of perverting the course of justice. This sparked speculation that police were looking at the possibility of an attempted cover-up, as well as allegations over the 'sale' of honours.

The Labour establishment reacted with fury to the latest arrest. Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell said she was "slightly bewildered" as to why Turner was arrested early in the morning by four policemen. Former home secretary David Blunkett demanded "thoroughness, not theatre". Lord Puttnam, Turner's friend and former boss, also accused detectives of "theatrics" and called on the police to "put up or shut up".

The remarks last night prompted the Metropolitan Police Authority's extraordinary statement. Duvall, himself a Labour politician, said: "It seems to me that it is inadvisable for others to comment, openly or behind the scenes, on the merits of individual lines of inquiry until such time as the full picture can be revealed.

"What is clear is that allegations of perverting the course of justice raise very serious concerns. It is also clear that no one in this country is above the law.

"As chairman of the Metropolitan Police Authority I must be seen never to seek to manipulate or pressurise senior officers in the Met on any operational inquiry. Others would do well to follow my example."

Glen Smyth, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, which represents rank-and-file officers, said the politicians' public comments were "particularly disturbing". "There are many junior officers who will feel their careers are being threatened subliminally, and that's wrong," he added.

Liberal Democrat spokesman Lord Thomas of Gresford said: "There is nothing theatrical about the arrest of Ruth Turner. Once the police had formed a reasonable suspicion of her perverting the course of justice, it was their duty to act swiftly and professionally to preserve any evidence."

The attacks on the methods used by the Met may reflect growing panic in Downing Street over the direction the inquiry appears to be taking.

Senior Labour figures had been growing increasingly confident that the police investigation into the alleged offer of honours to businessmen in return for donations to the party was running out of steam.

But Turner's arrest could herald a significant new development.

Whitehall insiders claim Scotland Yard detectives will shortly return to Downing Street to search computers and files that could prove Blair's office tried to "cover up" suggestions that honours had been offered to businessmen in return for donations to the Labour Party.

Since starting the investigation, following a complaint from SNP MP Angus MacNeil early last year, police have interviewed more than 50 people from all three main political parties.

Turner is the fourth person - and the first salaried government official - to be arrested in the inquiry, after Lord Levy, major Labour donor Sir Christopher Evans and headteacher Des Smith.

Labour officials have privately complained about apparent leaks from the inquiry team.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 20 January 2007 11:45 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Political Funding
 
1

GW,

Aberdeenshire 21/01/2007 00:31:28

Imagine a suspected criminal being treated like a suspected criminal!

Labour politicians are worried. Blair may think he is above international law as far as invading other countries is concerned, but he is certainly not above domestic law.

Roll on the wheels of justice!

2

Ginster's Pastie,

21/01/2007 00:37:28

Good day to bury bad news ? Quick, check the other articles...

3

walter,

21/01/2007 00:41:44

Crooks don't like the police investigating their activities and this Labour government are the biggest criminal organization this country has ever seen.

4

iain,

edinburgh 21/01/2007 00:44:16

Tessa Jowell ....who received the benefit of the doubt from Tony Blair about the mortgage half in her name paid off my Berlusconi's bribe .....expresses bewilderment at the polis ...backed up by Lord Putnam -enobled by Tony Blair ...and David Blunkett who earns £600,000 pa from Rupert Murdoch -who helped put Blair in power and must be pleased about this weeks announcement that the BBC licence fee would not go upo as much as expected .....
'oh could some God the giftie ge us tae see ourselves as ithers see us...'

5

Bill, Dunblane,

21/01/2007 01:22:33

Well I hope they took her fingerprints and DNA samples that cannot, under English law be destroyed.

6

AJ,

Fife 21/01/2007 01:23:23

I'm intrigued with the "theatrical" arrest!

Did Peter O'Toole break down the door, Dame Judy Dench headbutt the suspect, and Keira Knightly cuffs the poor bitch!!

7

Matt Middleton,

Dallas, TX 21/01/2007 01:53:09

So much for that old joke about heaven having British police. Does it really take 4 officers surprising and arresting this lady early in the morning in order to get a statement? I'm pretty certain they could have just invited her down to Scotland Yard? Maybe its different in the UK, but in the US we at least have the ideal that one is innocent until proven guilty. I have no love for the labour party, but I fully agree, based on what I have read, that this is "theatrical" behavior on the part of the police. The government should never be above the law, but that doesn't mean that they should be like street thugs either, especially for an inquiry.

8

Paul Voltaire,

www.paulvoltaire.spaces.live.com 21/01/2007 02:20:31

#7
She may well have done 'a runner'.
Usually they batter your door down as well.

9

Flabskin,

Mbra' 21/01/2007 02:29:33

"Matt Middleton in Texas" wouldn't be a secret code for "some Nu Labour hack/spin monger in Milbank" by any chance?

If you read the story, you'll see that one of the things the young person was arrested for was attempting to pervert the course of justice. In this particular case, and applying a crumb of common sense, that has to mean destroying or tampering with evidence. If you're going to arrest someone that you suspect of tampering with or destroying evidence, it makes sense to do it at a time and in a way that gives the the least opportunity for any further such activity.

The hackette was treated exactly as I would want someone suspected of perverting the course of justice to be treated, and exactly as I would expect to be treated myself in such circumstances.

Get a brain, Matt.

10

sheena,

on the night shift 21/01/2007 02:30:48

Sorry Matt @7 but this 'lady' was *arrested* for attempting to pervert the course of justice, which is a criminal offence. The reason there were four officers is that they had a warrant to search her house. They went early before her 'friends in high places' could warn her. No one is suggesting she was manhandled in any way.

11

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

21/01/2007 02:36:18

Smoke and mirrors :)

12

2dogs in D.C.,

up late 21/01/2007 02:46:05

Oh my gosh... someone alert the press...and the laywers, and the govenment, and did i mention the lawyers? I'll give odds for an easy trial , and probable pardon. Anyone?

13

Paul, Taiwan,

Taiwan 21/01/2007 04:04:01

Matt Middleton: Thanks for the reassurance that America upholds the principles of justice and presumption of innocence. Of course, those principles don't apply when it comes to the people held in Guantanomo Bay. Before you start pontificating about other countries, take a look in your own backyard. The British police should be commended for their even-handedness and their refusal to be intimidated/manipulated by politicians.

14

RoderickBeck,

New York 21/01/2007 04:17:27

Flabskin and Sheena,

My American brethen is correct. It was theatrical and unnecessary. You claim that she was 'arrested'. Well, interesting. 'Arrested', but not charged with any crime! In other words, she wasn't arrested. In other words, the dawn 'arrest' was really a theatrical attempt to intimidate a woman. Although it may hurt your nationalistic pride, this is the same police force that shot and killed an innocent Brazilian electrician on his way to work in the London Tube and then tried to cover it up. The same country where police officers have suggested that DNA samples should be collected from all new born and where virtually every Brit's movements outside their home is recorded on film. The UK is sliding down the same slippery slope as America. We Americans are probably farther down that slope, but the Brits have the momentum

15

Flabskin,

Mbra' 21/01/2007 04:46:19

Roderick, your liberal sentiments do you more credit than your ignorance of legal process. I didn't claim that she was 'arrested'. The police told us so.

What would have happened is that she would have been told "You are under arrest on suspicion of ..... Whatever you say may be taken down and used in a court of law as evidence against you." Then, if she were to throw herself to the ground screaming "But the shredding! I haven't finished the shredding..." they would be entitled to use that in evidence.

The next thing that will happen is that the police will review the evidence against her, and if they feel they have enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a crime has been committed, they will pass the file on to the DPP, who will then decide if she is to be charged with an offence.

It's called due process, and it appears to have been followed in this case both strictly and in accordance with common sense, given the nature of the offence for which she was arrested.

Wise up and get a bit better informed, if you want to start lecturing people.

16

Guga,

Rockall 21/01/2007 04:58:42

It must be a severe shock to the New Labour numpties to finally realise that they are not above the law, and that they are liable to be treated exactly the same as the plebians and hoi polloi.

Bliar and his cabinet must be starting to get a bit worried by now, especially as they all have war crimes charges hanging over their heads.

Bliar wanted a place in history, and he will certainly have it; as the leader of one of the most venal, lying, sleazy governments since the inception of the defunct union.

However, the most comical thing about all this is that it's the same government, headed by the same man, that is trying to turn this country into a police state.

17

bill, england,

21/01/2007 07:41:49

Actually, Downing Street (The People's Presidential Palace) does act as if they were above the law. There are many instances, and it is high time they were brought to book.

It is interesting that Jowell and Blunkett are interfering with the corruption investigation; their activities are also worthy of closer investigation.

Since the Blair Dynasty came to power on a wave of disgust over the previous wretches, they have been destroying our country's institutions and way of life. They genuinely believe that they are wonderful people and that everyone else in the UK not in their coterie are their serfs and not worthy of consideration. Their illusion is about to vanish.

Listen carefully people. The police in the UK are the people, they are of us and with us and we give them all our support. They do a tremendous job under massive political pressure from the Downing Street cancer, and justice will prevail.

Our friends in the USA have to realise that our police are independent of the government, as are the judiciary and the civil service and the BBC and many more of our cherished institutions. Downing Street has consistently tried to change this; Alistair Campbell, Ruth Turner and a host of other unelected manipulators have been beavering away to change the world to suit the Blairs' wishes.

There is a lot of talk about Bush and his neocons in the USA, but very little comment on Blair and his neocons here. Blair, Mandelson, Falconer, Goldsmith, Campbell and their babes are amongst those who burn midnight oil in Downing Street whilst hatching their plots against the UK.

The curtain is now being slowly lifted, and the full horror of what Blair's gang have been up to will be revealed for all the world to see. Not all the shredders and furnaces in the world will cover their tracks, and their days are numbered.

18

Flabskin,

Mbra' 21/01/2007 07:43:07

I should have added that in this country, if the police abuse their powers of arrest (for example, by 'arresting' someone against whom they have no credible evidence, for no other purpose than to 'intimidate' her) they can be sued in the civil courts for wrongful arrest, where the burden of proof is a balance of probabilities.

Given that in this instance our sleazy government will have more greasy lawyers on the case than you could thrash senseless in six months of effort with a billy club in each hand, I would be very surprised if the police did not already have a strong prima facie case against the hackette prior to the search of her premises (carried out under lawful warrant) following her arrest.

19

Mcsnagpile,

Vietnam 21/01/2007 07:43:08

The problem is that parties rely on hand outs to finance their activities. It is about time an independent funding system was in place to cut out clandestine donations.

20

Curious,

Liiliesleaf 21/01/2007 07:51:44

I find it interesting that those who complain about the arrest of this woman do not have the greatest reputation for integrity. Indeed one complainant is amoral (and had to leave office) and another is no doubt experienced in dodgy dealings and police investigations. Let us all just wait and see the outcome before making intrusive remarks.

21

Sholtodhr,

Edinburgh 21/01/2007 08:50:09

I am curious that it is our US friends who seem so anxious about due process. Is this because in the USA at the moment they have a President who seems keen to ignore due process or indeed any other legal process that does not suit himself or his wealthy friends.

22

eric,

21/01/2007 09:09:25

I think we will find that Downing street will be above law ,

23

James,

Dundee 21/01/2007 09:14:04

Just to add to #23 - the same USA that is quite happy to demand extradition of UK citizens but has refused to implement the reciprocal arrangement.

Just what are they afraid of?

24

bill, england,

21/01/2007 09:19:25

19. Mcsnagpile, Vietnam

"It is about time an independent funding system was in place"

There is no way that I would subsribe to any funding of political parties. Why should I give money to gangsters who are out only for themselves?

25

Ubi,

Edinburgh 21/01/2007 09:47:47

Well of course they believe they are above the law in this and many other matters. They can be forgiven for deluding themselves - over the course of the last hundred years honours have almost openly been sold by successive party leaders. Michael Foot told Simon Jenkins that his first list was rejected by the Labour whips because those he proposed "hadn't any money."

What is different this time is that are four potentially disgruntled witnesses and in their arrogant disregard for principles and standards Blair and co may actually have crossed the threshold to open sale.

Good on the Yard.

26

Eyrie,

Dumfriesshire 21/01/2007 10:10:33

I am glad the Metropolitan police have made comment on this sleazy spinning by the labour party. I sincerely hope this is only the start of a wider expose. I suspect that is what really concerns the Labour apparatchiks.

I watched my father bribe local labour politicians in North Ayrshire as a child. I learned two things: A. The politicians owned my father, not vice versa, and he did not benefit long-term. B. The area I lived in then has been condemned to second rate services and relative poverty for the past 40 years. (I'm now 51 years old). The politicians concerned went on to more powerful positions within Strathclyde Regional Council. They served themselves and not the community.

Funding elections will not stop the fundemental rot of cronyism and outright corruption in Westminster, Edinburgh, Regional, and local government. Regretably it is insidious and widespread. This is not about election funds. It is about personal greed.

I have spoken about this in recent years to politicians of all shades. They all accept it is the truth. They all accept it goes on. They all hold up their hands and confess to being powerless to stop it. One evn hinted that it 'made the wheels go round'.

I trust that the Metropolitan Police speak louder and dig wider and deeper.

27

James England,

21/01/2007 10:15:29

Since 1997. Blair has always believed that there is no immoral approbrium when it comes to his CASH-FOR-HONOURS policy.and that he as Prime Minister he is not accountable to anybody.

Therefore.it would be a glorious victory for Scotland Yard. if and when Scottish Blair stands trial for 'CORRUPTION' without doubt inner truth and concience are certainly not Blair's virtues. actually the same can be said for his Labour Government.

28

Rod,

Kirkliston - The European Village Jewel 21/01/2007 10:16:06

#8 Does it really take 4 officers surprising and arresting this lady early in the morning

Early morning arrests are common in both the UK and the USA. But it is only when 'one of their own' is subjected to what any suspected criminal in the UK can be subjected to that senior members of the Labour Party call 'foul'.
If you wish to criticise a system of law enforcement I would suggest there is much work ahead for you in respect of Guantanamo Bay.

29

Agent 99,

21/01/2007 10:17:31

[7,14] Methinketh they do protest too much.

Matt & Roderick, There was nothing theatrical about the arrest of someone on suspicion of committing a criminal act just because it took place at 6:30 in the morning; appearing as it does to be the sole plank in your case.

The practice of so-called "dawn raids" is in common use here in the UK. Further, the use of these tactics, principally against those accused of immigration misdemeanors, has not just been condoned by the UK government's Home Office but actively promoted by them.

It is therefore extremely hypocritical when the labour luvvies dare to stand up and moan about the very treatments they routinely hand out to others.

You will further note that the use of such tactics was neither an invention of the UK enforcement bodies, not is confined to the UK. The US I believe, invented SWAT squads which are, if we are to believe the media, common practice there. The spectre of heavily armed squads of US police smashing down doors to arrest someone for unpaid parking tickets or speeding offences is risible, unfortunately it is based on fact.

In holding up what is an apology for a justice system in the US as somehow superior to the UK, you too are adopting a hypocritical stance.

So, please continue with your amusing attack on the UK police, but you'll have to put up with similar accusations towards your own lot.

30

Stickman,

21/01/2007 10:20:23

I'll look forward to the next Golden Globe ceremony then: "....and the nominations for theatrical performances are, the police in "The Arrest of Ruth Turner", ......" What's supposed to be theatrical about the early morning arrest of someone suspected of such an offence? It is right and proper that she is treated as any other citizen. Of COURSE she's not above the law. Why should she be? It's not like she's the Queen, who could get away with murder if she chose to, because she is, I believe, the only person who IS above the law.

31

Schmuel,

England 21/01/2007 10:25:46

Matt Middleton, I notice that you are from George's home state! I hope, however, that you have slightly more intelligence than your 'adored' leader.

As I have already said, American laws differ to ours and by that token your Police forces act accordingly as do ours.

Ms. Turner, it is said, was thought by the 'Met' to have attempted to pervert the course of justice they decided on that reasoning to arrest and take her into custody - nothing unusual if you think you are dealing with a possible criminal.

The fact that a number of Labour politicians have now begun to complain about her arrest tells me that there IS something to hide and that SOMEONE has behaved criminally. Innocent people do NOT go bleating about what has happened.

Also, Matt, think about this, the 'Met' have interviewed around 90 people since this began all of whom protest their innocence saying they have done nothing wrong!!! Fine, maybe THEY didn't but someone DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With due respect, until you know something about English Law do not cast any judgement, we do not profess perfection and neither should you! Bush has dumped 'Gitmo' on the American public, some of your servicemen in Afghanistan and Iraq have 'shot the traces', a number of British soldiers were killed due to "Friendly Fire" (though what is friendly about a bullet - God knows) in Kuwait because some American serviceman couldn't do his job properly.

Please do not go down the same road as Martha.

32

Royster,

21/01/2007 10:29:41

The thought of Tony Blair being led away in hand-cuffs give a warm feeling all over.

33

Schmuel,

England 21/01/2007 10:31:25

James at 29.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, and let's see if we can do him for being a traitor at the same time.

Think we can get away with it?

Possibly, if Cherie doesn't poke her nose in.

34

McTaggert-Skye,

Skye 21/01/2007 10:33:20

Response to no 7 concerning 4 police officers turning upat 6am to rrest a supect
This is standard procedure;6 am to increase the probability that the person is home, one of the officers is a driver, two conduct a search,and the fourth takes care of the persons safety.

Obviously police cannot arrest by appointment for reasons connected to evidence gathering.

35

Schmuel,

England 21/01/2007 10:34:43

Eric at 24.

I know that Tony and his cronies like to think they are above the Law but in Law they are NOT!!!

If you dive into the British Constitution on the web I am pretty sure that you will find the ONLY person above the Law is H.M. Queen.

36

Calum Mac,

21/01/2007 10:34:59

But they are above the law:
Blunkett defrauds the rail companies over vouchers for travel and it's OK because "he paid it back"
Prescott thumps a protestor but it's OK because "that's just John"
Jowell manipulates her finances over the mortagge loan but its OK because "she didn't know about her mortgage"
Prescott doesn't pay community charge for 4 years but it's OK because "it was an oversight"
This could go on and on and on but needless to say there are Courts up and down the land where ordinary folk would never get away with these "excuses".
They are rotten from top to bottom and the police should be supported absolutely for investigating this issue with vigour.

37

McTaggert-Skye,

Skye 21/01/2007 10:38:27

I suggest that the follwing stry (abstract cut from The Mail on Sunday) is relevant here. The complete article s very revealing.
FROM MAIL ON SUNDAY (just the first lines)

Cherie: It's my human right to get perks

Cherie Blair shocked Britain's most senior civil servant by claiming she was entitled to cut-price designer clothes worth thousands of pounds - because she was protected by European human rights laws.

She lashed out when the Cabinet Secretary challenged her for accepting the clothes, telling him: "You are infringing my rights under the European Convention on Human Rights."

38

Porry,

The Continent 21/01/2007 10:43:50

#7--Matt Middleton, it does not take long to find a good example of the good old American 'innocent until proven guilty' policy. Just look at the homepage of the 'Tacoma News Tribune' appearing in Tacoma, WA (USA). It took a decision of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to uphold another court's decision that the following was a grave mistake:
Without a warrant, Tacoma Police broke unto an innocent woman's home, pointed a gun at her face, treated her like a suspect, ordered her to the floor, handcuffed her and searched her home.
And you complain about rightful Met activities.

39

Alasdair Roy,

Aberdeen 21/01/2007 10:46:18

Surely the Metropolitan Police were being more than considerate to Ms Turner and her employers in arresting her at home. I assume at 6:30 a.m. that she was getting ready to go to work at No. 10 Downing Street. They could have come for her at No. 10 beating on the front door to be let in. What then?

40

Ricardo,

21/01/2007 10:50:51

Ha!... maybe this will be the real "Trial of Tony Blair".. perhaps after this one ... he will be taken to The Hauge.

41

Ricardo,

21/01/2007 10:56:06

for his 'War Crime's

42

Ricardo,

21/01/2007 10:56:52

Crimes'

43

martin , surrey,

Godalming , Surrey. 21/01/2007 11:25:14

The american justice system ? that would be the one that found o j Simpson not guilty, that had UK citizen Louise Woodward, arriving in court in chains, found her guilty after a farce of a trial before relenting and sending her home.
Theatics ? what was Micheal Jacksons trial and indeed so many american trials, but an exceise in theatrics played out before the cameras.

44

mv,

21/01/2007 12:00:26

#7, "..but in the US we at least have the ideal that one is innocent until proven guilty..."

I think that someone from the US should think before making any statements on national/international law, your policy is played out in the daily news.

We from the UK are now "welcomed" into your country with a request to have our personel records searched, have fingerprints taken and then added to an FBI database. Is this clearly a case of being made to feel guilty?

Tony and his shambles, otherwise know as the Labour party, seen to follow GWB and ignore any international law. Surprised the UN still remain in the US, sure they will be kicked out soon...

Tony is applying his international law policies internally as well, just read the Uk press for over the last couple of years and you will find that they DO think they are above the law. Hopefully the voters will get a chance to get rid of them soon (May in Scotland)....

45

The Skeptic,

Essex 21/01/2007 12:02:35

Had Ruth Turner been an ordinary member of the public, her door would have been kicked in the early hours of the morning, her arms would have been forced up her back and she would have been handcuffed. Why are the Labour gang complaining about the draconian powers they have given to the police since they have been in power, I think, having watched the arrest on TV of ordinary members of the public, that she was preferentially treated with extraordinary leniency.

46

Douglas,

21/01/2007 12:07:36

Matt#7: With David Blunkett making his opinion known and with his track record with "the ladies" it's not a great leap to get to the scenario where the police turn up at the door and amid all the commotion have a black labrador set upon them by D.B. because he thinks it's a home invasion, Ms Turner being unable to help with identification due to taking care of a members interest.
THAT'S why there were four of London's finest at the door.....possibly

47

Mrs. Trellis,

Devon 21/01/2007 12:12:01

I really am enjoying all this! It's better than Channel 4,.. only with more subtle editing by those in charge..Brilliant entertainment.

Thing is, If he forced out of office, (or does a runner), is he still going to give himself a peerage? ..Then there's "two Jags", ( cue shark music!!), what's honour is he going to get? As he's supposed to be going at the same time. I suggest Lord of West Lothian for him.

Suggestions please for TB..for starters how about "Count of Blackadder?

Mrs. T

48

Rob me blind,

21/01/2007 12:20:07

Good to see the police wont be put off getting at the truth but I bet it wouldnt happen in Scotland the Police here would just do as they are told

49

Wisnaeme,

Sent to Coventry, 21/01/2007 12:50:18

There was an interesting article in the Independent newspaper on January the 18th last by Andrew Woodcock, PA.

Standards watchdog urges shake-up for party funding and voting.

"The Committee on Standards in Pubic Life called for a thorough overhaul of the Electoral Commission, accusing it of a 'passive' approach to the issue of party funding."

I am deeply concerned with what the following extract from the article states in relation to the safe guarding of voting proceedures bearing in mind the forth coming Scottish elections.Indeed, when desperate and immoral politicians and their supporters fear the collapse of their power through lack of funding or lack of public support,what safeguards are in place with the necessary powers to prevent abuse of the democratic electoral system.

Quote: " The commission should have 'shown ' greater focus and courage in alerting the risk to the integrity of the electoral process from legislative changes,principally the lack of safeguards against electoral fraud with the introduction of postal voting on demand."
"Through a combination of deficiences in it's current mandate,that is too weak in some areas and too broad in others,combined with a lack of courage,competence and leadership in it's regulatory and advisory approach, the commission has not successfully performed these core duties."

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article2163480.ece

50

abracadabra,

21/01/2007 13:18:06

I don't know what all the surprise is about, labour have been involved in sleaze & corruption since its inception and can be seen on a daily basis within our local authorities.
What the critics of the Police action are afraid of are the implications on themselves and their ill gotten gains.
How can we ever control criminality when it is portayed as the norm by our political masters in Whitehall?

51

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 21/01/2007 13:28:35

I agree with 2dogs in D.C.

Methinks the Labour spokesmen and spokeswomen do protest too much. Why criticise the method of arrrest, which is common practic world-wide, and try to deflect attention from the actual alleged crime?

Where there is smoke there is usually fire. These Labour spokepersons are arrogant, condescending, and elitist. They will get the comeuppance one day and the head honcho at the top of this fiasco - Tony Blair - better hang his head very low as his credibility and that of his party is hanging by a thread.

And having a wife like Cherie Blair will not add any dignity or sympathy to the allegations. May they all eventually rot in hell.

52

Jason,

Japan 21/01/2007 13:28:59

"We run them in, we run them in,
We show them we`re the bold Gendarme..."
Why Tony, you`ve gone quite pale.

53

Billy,

Germany 21/01/2007 13:39:33

Maybe this is why the Bliars are holding on to "power" for so long, they know the forces of the law are waiting for them . I wonder how many friends they will still have when this is over.

Good to see the bliaress is having her "lecture tours"
cancelled due to poor ticket sales. Even the Indians
want nothimg to do with her. Of course that cancellation may be due to her payment demands,
remember the Australian children's charity fiasco?

54

"Scotty",

21/01/2007 13:48:09

Absolutely right numbers 13, 23, 25 & 40. People in glass-houses should NOT throw stones. How can anyone trust polticians these days??

55

Guga,

Rockall 21/01/2007 14:38:17

Just heard on the television news that the arrest of that woman was the result of a "tip off" from someone inside 10 Downing Street.

Interesting. Maybe the rats are beginning to desert the sinking ship.

56

nolimits,

High Level, Canada 21/01/2007 14:39:06

#53: TCW
Hmmm.....sounds familiar. BC politics anyone?

57

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 21/01/2007 14:43:24

It is indeed heartening that after nine plus years of New Labour the British Public (at least those with a modicum of sense) have seen through the smoke and mirrors of a powerful exercise of spin. Promises made - broken, honesty - a by-word, sleaze - an accepted principle, greed - the driving force and above all - treachery to those who thought that after the Tories things would change. Boy, have they changed -FOR THE WORSE! However beware. There are many with no sense who will still be fooled and vote for them again. They read the Murdoch Press and watch the Murdoch TV.

58

jimmock,

France 21/01/2007 14:48:41

Just perhaps the Met are the guys to kill off the spin machine, no one else has really managed so far!!

59

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 21/01/2007 14:55:42

Funny how New Labour Ministers are "surprised" that the MET police called on a suspect at six am and escorted her to a police station for questioning. No handcuffs, no broken down doors, no threatening behaviour to children or abusive language to her Mum or Dad. What a contrast to suspect immigrants in Scotland whose homes are attacked by Home Office police (not local bobbies) doors battered to bits, children terrified and parents grounded and handcuffed at four am. Thereafter taken to barbed wired and security units miles away for God knows what. And New Labour Ministers are "surprised!!

60

caledonia,

ardrossan 21/01/2007 15:24:36

Hmph,interesting debate!
PS the "gers are up 1-0,and am just gaun fur ma dinner

61

,

21/01/2007 15:32:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
62

Swilly Tisher,

Loch Maree 21/01/2007 15:38:17

I back the police , one hundred per cent ; make no mistake about it , the heat is on. We live in extremely interesting times.

63

Wisnaeme,

Sent to Coventry. 21/01/2007 15:40:42

Caledonia comment 62.

GERS 1-0!

Would that be a biased report on another bunch of dodgy professionals then?
.

64

eric,

21/01/2007 15:56:39

37 Yes in Black & white ,But in the real world they are ,Money does talk,Youll find out soon enough,

65

jolo1314,

NH/USA 21/01/2007 16:23:17

I've been in the USA for 25 years and I live in a rural area where our police do an excellent job of community policing. It's the sort of place that you would find in rural Scotland where you can meet the local policeman off-duty in the pub or a restaurant or at the Rotary Club. I'll bet if I was to show this article and blog to our local police chief, he would agree that this is exactly the way that things should be done under the circumstances.

Money and politics are totally out of control on both sides of the Atlantic. Politicians talk about reforming the system but this is just TALK - there's no way you can get elected in the USA without a huge amount of money behind you. I see it close up as New Hampshire holds the first primary in the American electoral system and the wannbees are swarming into the state already over a year ahead of the Primary and nearly 2 years ahead of the next Presidential election. Its fun to watch but its crazy!

66

Rod,

Kirkliston - The European Village Jewel 21/01/2007 16:29:35

#37 I know that Tony and his cronies like to think they are above the Law but in Law they are NOT!!!

Unless they are his cronies from Bae who 'adjust' the books and flog....wait for it....weapons of mass destruction to the Saudis and line the pockets of a few impoverished millionaire Saudi princes whose only mission in life is to spread freedom and democracy to all their subjects.

67

Schmuel,

England 21/01/2007 17:05:33

68. Rod hold on a mo, I was talking about that bunch of thieves in Westminster.

If you want to include ALL of his 'cronies' fine by me......... but where do you STOP?????????????

Also "in Law" is different to "catching them at it" and "proving it", after all - WE know the whole lot are as bent as ninepence - but we can't prove it and that, unfortunately, is the problem.

68

caledonia,

ardrossan 21/01/2007 17:30:40

65 wisnaeme
nice one mate,but i wasonly giving a sports report in the middle of your debate.ps the tic won yesterday!does that even it up?

69

Friend-at-large,

Home, with coffee (fair trade). 21/01/2007 17:41:37

It's likely that the London action involving Ruth Turner was carried out with exquisite care and that the officers were hand-picked for their capability.

Agree that this is entertaining.

Bribes are everywhere! I have had to pass up a few when I had a government position dealing with architects. As a group they are still some of the most interesting people I've met. It's just that among the great majority of professionals who compete based on their merits there are those who cheat.

I do wonder what the reality is in this scenario.

"Good on you!" to all who work without resorting to underhanded actions.

70

ivor,

paignton 21/01/2007 17:43:25

Charles Clarks recent comments to Lord Woolf, while giving evidence to The Lords Committee on the constitution, call for an in depth studies by the press.

Mr and Mrs Blair, like Lord Woolf are members of a profession that regards right and wrong, as irrelevant in the administration of a society governed by the rule of law. The Blair’s clearly like some other politicians in high office of state, have clearly lost all sense of right and wrong. Lord Woolf, I submit, is required by the rules of his profession to exclude his concept of right and wrong in his administration of law.

I submit the public awareness of this is limited.

The problem is that this mind set in government and politics, is a threat to democracy and decency in our Society. Charles Clark wishes to alter the balance of the law in the interest of protecting Society against terrorism. This is a dilemma, because if this is granted, morally deprived politicians and those who manipulate them for profit will misuse the dispensation.

I question if the public at large are aware of the limitations of the legal mind and the danger of having too many of that profession in parliament? This is something that should be considered by constituency selection committees and indeed the electors.

Our current Lord Chancellor, Prime Minister, are prime examples of members of the legal profession being at odds with the sense of decency held by the voting public.

The Public needs educating to a standard that will enable a debate on the dilemma a legal Mafia taking over the Offices of State presents.

To my mind we have lost the balance in values that existed thirty years ago.

71

Wisnaeme,

Sent to Coventry. 21/01/2007 18:09:29

.

Comments 69 & 69.

Ironic isn't it. All that tax payer's money spent in pursuit of Bliar and Dubya's war on terror and their foreign adventures, yet Tony's cronies and their so called allies, the Saudis are protected from embarrasment because of their alleged mutual stance on the war on terror.

But these alleged bribes are to persons perceivably involved in funding the perpetrators of terrorist outrages. These alleged bribes could and probably are used to finance the recruitment, training and arming of persons of saudi nationality and others involved in so called 'Jihad'. So Bliar and cronies are both fighting the war on terror and aiding it's continuence.

Now there is a joined up New labour policy and it's duty of care to the governed for you.

72

Jaggy,

Here there and everywhere 21/01/2007 18:10:39

Sadly, the Labour Party has a long record of corruption and dodgy dealings (whereas the Tories tend to specialise in sex scandals). Here in Scotland, we have had the last two First Ministers embroiled in corruption scandals (at least McLeish had the decency to resign). In Glasgow, where the Labour council is the property of a self-serving oligarchy, there are examples of corruption aplenty. Lanarkshire and Ayrshire have long ben awash with Labour corruption. Neither is it recent. I remember as a teenager the labour councillor for Townhead being arrested for corruption.

Down in England, things are not much better as has already been mentioned. Interesting how it is Jowell and Blunkett who are squealing. Neither of them have much to be proud of. Again, those of us with long memories will recall T. Dan Smith and Co.

I really do hope that Blair and his cronies get to feel the long arm of the law on their collars.

73

bill, england,

21/01/2007 18:43:43

73. ivor, paignton

I have often thought that the preponderance of lawyers in Parliament is dangerous, as their mind set is geared to adversarial argument; defense and attack. As you say, right and wrong are alien concepts to these people.

Most of the good work is done by committees working consensually, and the blathering in the Houses is of much less importance.

What is sinister is the taking over of government by Downing Street, and the contempt shown to Parliament by the Blair media machine.

They are out to control everything, and this action by the police might be the last opportunity to stop the rot.

I really hope the police will close ranks, and prevent victimisation of the officers involved in the investigation. We are painfully aware of what happened to David Kelly, and what happened to the BBC journalists whose truth was at variance with the governments lies.

74

Keith Lagden,

21/01/2007 18:45:54

#1 the wheels of justice turn slowly

75

Matt Middleton,

Dallas, TX 21/01/2007 19:21:27

I find it funny that I'm harassed about Guantanamo after expressing my distaste for the way this Downing Street incident was handled. It should be apparent to you that I have absolutely no love for the grave perversions of due process and justice being undertaken by my own country. I do not pretend to critique the entire British legal system, but I simply expressed my distaste for what happened. My impetus for writing in the first place is that I am strongly libertarian (hence little love for labour or Bush) and I hate to see undue force being used against and individual by the police. In my own country, several individuals have been killed by the tendency to bring in swat teams to arrest even non-violent suspects. This case obviously doesn't rise to that level, but it reminds me of why I don't like police.

I admit, it makes sense for the police to move if they suspect someone is "perverting the course of justice", though I think there needs to be genuine probable cause before the police publicly trample over an individual. In my original post, I wasn't trying to make a commentary on the British justice system, but rather just express my own personal distaste at how the situation seems to have been handled. Similarly, I think that many of those who disagree with me also have little interest in the larger questions of justice, but rather have a base, proletariat desire to see the high and mighty brought down, and I think this sentiment is what the theatrical police are catering to when they repeat their mantra that "nobody is above the law".

76

Jaggy,

Here there and everywhere 21/01/2007 19:34:04

#79 Matt: where does it say that "undue force" was used in the arrest. There are a number of reasons for arresting someone at home early in the morning. Firstly, you can generally be sure that they will be there. Secondly, it avoids the embarrasment of arresting them at their place of work in front of their colleagues (especially if that is Downing Street) and thirdly, it makes it harder for them to remove, hide or destroy incriminating documents and evidence.

The criticism of "thetrical arrest" comes from two Labour politicians, neither of whom were present at the scene and both of whom have reasons to be wary of the police.

The British police are far from perfect like the police in most countries but I can see no way that they have behaved improperly in this case.

77

bill, england,

21/01/2007 19:38:22

79. Matt Middleton, Dallas, TX

Matt, Downing Street are concealing information from the police; of that there is little doubt.

Ruth Turner in her position would have access to that information, and it is not unreasonable for the police to search her property for it.

It is quite normal to pounce early in the day, when the suspect would be at home and drowsy. Four policemen would be the minimum; one to guard the suspect, one in the car, two searching.

Not over the top at all; no violence reported.

Imagine what would have happened if they had raided her place of work Downing Street at 6.30.
Apart from risking the spectacle of Cherie in her nightdress again, they would have needed hundreds of officers and major interference in the business of Emperor Tony's misrule.

78

Jonesy,

holland 21/01/2007 20:32:30

No sense complaining about Labour being crooks etc, the majority of the viewers voted them in at the last two elections, getting rid of another group of crooks from the other side of the political spectrum.

Power corrupts but absolute power corrupts absolutely

79

Schmuel,

England 21/01/2007 20:40:33

79. Matt Middleton, Dallas Texas.

The arrest and interrogation of MS. Turner was carried out in a perfectly normal manner, no 'rough stuff', 'harassement' or anything of that nature more a case of "we'd like you to come with us", a perfectly reasonable REQUEST bearing in mind the situation.

As has been intimated before, "The Met" tread VERY carefully on matters of this nature and make certain of their facts BEFORE taking this kind of action.

The fact that it has upset some of her Labour colleagues is laughable, under given circumstances they 'ditch' or 'shop' her without compunction, the name JUDAS mean anything?? It also shows, by their complaining, that there is something to hide
and John Yates, the Officer in Charge, made it clear at the beginnig that he would go where this investigation led, GOOD - it shows that he sticks to his word, unlike the politicians.

You indicate that you have no love for Police, I have a 'Healthy disrespect' for ours which is NOT a criticism of them - more a compliment because you do not mess with the 'Met'.

However what you need to remember is that, unlike your forces, British police officers are NOT armed in the normal run of things, so they can be quite friendly.

80

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta , California 21/01/2007 20:44:21

#63 Famous 15

You did not finish the ditty: There is a second verse.

"The working class can kiss my ass.
I've got the foreman's job at last."

"I'm out of work and on the dole.
You can shove the red flag up your hole"

My dad to me about it.

81

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 21/01/2007 20:49:37

I like the comment by #32 Stickman that The Queen is above the law.

Anybody who knows the laws of England - and Canada, by the way - is aware that all criminal proceedings are phrased as, "Regina [Queen] v. so and so or whatever.

Therefore, IN THEORY ONLY, Her Majesty COULD get away with murder or any other servious crime because they are all enacted by her. Therefore she would not prosecute herself because that would be silly and probably against the law. These are laws that are used against people or organisations IN HER MAJESTY'S NAME.

Not being a lawyer or barrister or solicitor I may have omitted some minor points of law but the general gist is that THE QUEEN CANNOT PROSECUTE HERSELF!

Therefore, Stickman is correct and thank God is not a murderous monster like Henry VIII or many of the Lancastrian kings.

82

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta , California 21/01/2007 20:55:09

Ruth Turner : should get away from Downing Street and do what David Beckham did. Move to Tinsel Town.

Ruth is the perfect age, looks sexy and has a mysterious look about her.

The Brentwood crowd would love her , so would the Belle Aire lot. Oceans of money there, easy come easy go.

GC

83

Duncan,

Scotland with oil in credit :) 21/01/2007 21:00:52

Heard old Plunkett whimpering away regarding the police putting on a show. Would there have been a right time or method that would keep the venomous old lecher of their backs, methinks not.
Plunkett is a totally discredited duplicitous old hypocrite and would do well to sit down and shut up. Trying to put pressure on the Met. to get them to back of will not work, and Lying New Labour should stop interfering with proper Police procedure.
They mocked and insulted the Honourable Member Angus McNeil SNP when he brought the complaint forward. The sneers have been wiped from their crooked faces now. This and the failed Iraq war will be Bliars legacy. Corruption and warmongering.

84

Charlie Ferrier,

New Zealand 21/01/2007 21:43:21

I am trying to understand why there is an enquiry at all into how peerages are awarded. Is it not the case that you do good deeds and eventually you are recognised or you do favours for the ruling party and you are recognised. I'm sure helping with the election campaign comes under"favours". Also the motivation behind awarding honours should really be investigated in all cases going back say 30 years if one is going to start asking questions

Ultimately in a democracy there is no room for any of these crown honours - so why not just abolish them altogether?

85

Wil,

Pennsylvania, USA 21/01/2007 21:51:31

Matt from Texas:

WHEN will you learn, my countryman, that you should never comment on ANYTHING British in these threads. Even if you were one hundred percent accurate in your statement(s), you are AMERICAN, and therefore destined to have biscuits thrown at your head by self-righteous and hyper-intellgent persons such as "schmuel." When will you learn that all Americans are just silly and stupid when eclipsed by the bracing intelligence, insight and withering sarcasm for which "schmuel" is widely known and respected...particularly in this forum!

;)

86

BL4CKMAMBA,

Cruden bay 21/01/2007 22:03:50

Good stuff,
"No one is above the law"
Come on the boys in blue :)
http://BL4CKMAMBA.bebo.com

87

morris,

edinburgh 21/01/2007 22:04:55

If she has "perverted the course of justice" who did she seek to protect? Theres one name springs to mind and outstandingly so,but theres no way that he will ever be accountable as far as I can see,just as there is no way he can avoid being responsible and unaware of what goes on.
This statement of no one is above the law will carry more weight,when we see the arrest of whoever is ultimately reponsible.
If the Police have established that she is guilty in their eyes(but a trial of course decides this) then they must also suspect someone else of being guilty or she cannot be!
If she is the highest ranking arrest then there has been a cover up indeed and her arrest is not the conclusion that can be reached,but ...............I think it will be none the less.
I dont have a lack of confidence in our police ,but I dont agree that only the Queen is above the law!
Time will tell,but the arrest of an aide suggests a further arrest is imminent, possibly already blocked and thats as far as it goes.She cannot be guilty whilst her superior is wholly innocent ,can she?

88

therave,

London 21/01/2007 22:11:22

"no one is above the law", apart from Saudi Arabia, apparently.

89

The Wizard,

OZ 21/01/2007 22:36:41

Have a message for Rob in NZ

90

Voldemort,

Tiree 21/01/2007 22:42:35

Labour is corrupt from the top down ... we need the police to investigate all the back handers going on at council level too.

Tax spend ban that's all your average socialist is good for ....

91

IainA,

Edinburgh 21/01/2007 22:54:05

Not to be cynical or anything, but what's the bet that the police may get some information leading them to arrest and charge a fairly obscure functionary somewhere in the bowels of the labour party administration. After that, a scalp will have been taken and no further action will be deemed necessary - at least by the government. The police may know better, but pressure will have been applied.

Or I could be wrong.....

92

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta , California 21/01/2007 23:08:55

#89 Wil;

You wrote;

"When will you learn that all Americans are just silly and stupid when eclipsed by the bracing intelligence, insight and withering sarcasm for which "schmuel" is widely known and respected...particularly in this forum!"

Hey man all Americans are not silly and stupid.

That's like saying all English are arrogant and superior. ...Are they ?

Don't get your knickers in a twist because of a so called debate on this thread concerning Ruth Turner and ensuing English political trivia.

When you live on a small island with 60 million homo sapiens packed like sadrdines in a tin can, and you get 4 weather seasons in one day, something has to give.
Or they would all go bonkers.

So the political trivia surrounding Ruth Turner does it for them, for this week .

Last week it was David Beckham abandoning his royal island for crude California tinsel town.

Not forgetting the $250 million the Americans will pay him over 5 years.

Let the Queen put that in her pipe and smoke it.

GC

93

Robbie,

NZ 22/01/2007 00:54:24

93. The Wizard, OZ / 10:36pm 21 Jan 2007
" Have a message for Rob in NZ"
Hi Wiz.
It's a local holiday (Wellington Anniversary Day) and out most of the time.
If you read this post a message and I'll call back later.
If 'closed’ catch you on another forum.
All the best from a Kilted Kiwi.

94

The Wizard,

OZ 22/01/2007 01:46:00

Hi Rob,
Really interested in your Endangered Bird program.
If you go on the www and type in
Western Banders Association
you will see why.
Dbl click the Presidents name and you can give me details.
regards.

Wiz

95

claude,

London 22/01/2007 02:14:57

The fact the "Blunkett & Co" objected to the 0630. early morning arrest of Ms Turner.. as opposed to her being invited to visit the police station at her leisure some time during the day ... is to give the impression to the public and the police that there really is no "case" to answer, but if the police want to carry on with this "thing" well alright then, but why those early morning dramatics ... those comments by "Blunkett & Co" seems to indicate that the police are closing in on a "Watergate" type cover up, and this will certainly intensify the investigation, moreover, by making those comments, they are being seen by the public of wanting to interfer with "due process of law" in order to protect No.10. this will turn out to be a major blunder, since the British electorate will remember that.

96

Royster,

22/01/2007 06:28:10

#85. The lawyers or Parliament could think of a way around that. How about Regina v. Elizabeth Windsor?

97

bill, england,

22/01/2007 09:28:26

nunnerup

98

Martha,

22/01/2007 14:00:47

mv, you idiot, the USA is trying to prevent another 9/11 attack. You have homegrown muslims in your country who are willing to launch terror attacks on you; they are also willing to launch terror attacks on us. You also have your lunatic fringe of native born non-middle eastern Britons who find in radical islam just the excuse they need to act out their psychotic delusions. So, when you come into this country, you are going to be fingerprinted put onto an FBI list. Get over it. Your police will be doing the same thing before long.

99

James England,

22/01/2007 14:18:52

THE QUEEN unlike BLAIR is a non-runner.

100

Martha,

22/01/2007 14:20:41

How about "adultery for honours?" You have a certain woman in England who partakes of the best that your society offers every minute of every day, who was made Duchess of Cornwall because she slept (while married to another man) with the crown prince (while married to another woman).

My question is: Does Camilla get any money for being Duchess of Cornwall, and is adultery with a royal nincompoop a sure way to gain a Duchy and an income and a top billing on some ridiculous "honours" list?

101

Martha,

22/01/2007 14:33:46

The Queen cannot prosecute herself, because she is a Sovereign; and, she cannot be prosecuted by anyone else for the same reason.

Sovereignty is a very, very ancient concept, but still used in law. The USA, like other nations, is a sovereign state and can act in its own best interests without consulting any other state or getting permission from any other state.

For those of you who like to rant about "international law," chew on this: there really isn't any such thing, with the exception of the Law of the Sea. The Sea is an international highway upon which each nation may exercise deadly force to protect its own commerce and navy. "The Right of Innocent Passage" is about the closest thing there is to real international law, and even that is occasionally breached by a hostile nation.

Anyone who has ever been in an international business knows that the laws of the host country prevail. There is no "international law" protecting business or anything else that I can think of. If you are an English company doing business in China, you obey the laws of China-- or you will regret it.

There are agreements between nations, treaties and the like, but nations are sovereigns and can, and do, breach treaties at will when it is in their national interest. There are international cooperative organizations like Interpol. But that is not the same as the mythical international law.

The UN, pitiful as it is, tries to whine about "international law" but fortunately such a thing doesn't really exist although there are still people who make a living from trying to convince others that it does.

102

bill, england,

22/01/2007 17:17:33

104. Martha

She's just selling herself, there's a word for that, and worse still she procured a child bride for her lover while they still had every intention of carrying on their arrangement.

103

GalacticCannibal,

M 22/01/2007 20:20:16

#105 Martha

Now you sound reasonable with a smidgen of CS (common sense).
Just reduce your level if "inherent ranting" and you will do just fine.

I notice that our *WBN leader Bush is now telling (even threatening) the world that we in the USA own space (non-gravitational space).

Bush reacted, all because the Chinese blasted one of their old satellites in space using their ballistic missiles.

What an idiot Bush is, the sooner he goes the better for all Americans Rep. or Dem.


GC


*WBN = (wannabe nazi)


 

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