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Property developer attacks surveyors for 'deliberately lowering house prices'



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Published Date: 15 June 2008
A SCOTTISH property developer has accused the country's surveyors of deliberately lowering the value of homes to protect themselves from possible legal action from buyers.
Andy Burrell, managing director of the Burrell Company, has caused outrage in the industry after claiming surveyors are afraid that buyers will sue if the value of newly bought properties fall.

Burrell believes surveyors are following a 'herd' ins
tinct on valuations. His company is behind innovative projects such as Bell's Mill in Edinburgh and the Vienna Apartments in Glasgow, and he insists the Scottish housing market is not in crisis.

"The surveyors are covering their backsides and by doing that they're in danger of killing the market by stopping properties being sold," he said.

"It is theoretically possible we'll end up talking ourselves into another 90s-style slump, but a slump that will have nothing to do with real economic fundamentals."

He said surveyors are hiding behind professional indemnity insurance, fearing possible litigation if the value they assign to a property then falls.

"In my opinion it's self-interest – making sure they don't get caught out. Down-valuing has always gone on to an extent, but it seems to be picking up because of the current market nervousness."

He said the primary concern of surveyors at the moment is "self-preservation".

Burrell, who founded what is regarded as the first architect-developer company in Scotland in the early 80s, said: "Most developers and housebuilders in Scotland are still seeing demand in many areas and for many types of properties, yet values are being lowered. That goes against the law of supply and demand.

"A property that was being talked about at, say, £200,000 a couple of months ago is now being valued at £180,000. Why? What's changed?"

Burrell believes that forcing values down coupled with the gloomy coverage of the property market could knock the market further.

Graeme Hartley, director of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors in Scotland, said: "Suggestions that chartered surveyors are undervaluing property and hiding behind their professional indemnity insurance is totally off the mark.

"Chartered surveyors who are RICS members have no benefit in under-valuing. They are not deemed negligent if a property decreases in value so long as they value a property in accordance to the RICS valuation standards and use information on current market conditions.

"Chartered surveyors reflect the market – they don't set the market. Developers may price their properties by working out the cost and adding on a profit, so this will not necessarily match the valuation from a chartered surveyor who has looked at current market conditions."







The full article contains 443 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Dougie, Edinburgh,

15/06/2008 00:11:10
Compared with a couple of months ago, there's been a huge loss of confidence in the housing market - enough to account for a 10% price drop.
2

Kingston,

Singapore 15/06/2008 03:15:23
It's called supply and demand.

Surveyors have been only pricing according to the what the market will take.

The market has changed!
3

ccc,

15/06/2008 08:00:19
"In my opinion it's self-interest"

"primary concern of surveyors at the moment is self-preservation"

"A property that was being talked about at, say, £200,000 a couple of months ago is now being valued at £180,000. Why? What's changed?"

And all this from a 'property developer'. What a fool. What has changed ? Is the guy being serious ? I hope he is bankrupt soon. He has had 10 years of everyone talking the market up, I don't remember him moaning about that. Lets change the tune a little and imagine this comment 2 years ago.....

"A property that was being talked about at, say, £180,000 a couple of months ago is now being valued at £200,000. Why? What's changed?"

No-one was overly bothered when market sentiment was shooting prices up without any real reason. Now all of a sudden they are peed off when it goes the other way.

If you cant ride through these tough times then you deserve to be bankrupt Mr Burrell.
4

techpunk,

15/06/2008 09:09:53
"It is theoretically possible we'll end up talking ourselves into another 90s-style slump, but a slump that will have nothing to do with real economic fundamentals."

agreed. however, it's not the surveyors who are talking down the market. it's the press. it is in the surveyors interests to try and talk up the market, and return damaged consumer confidence.

burrell has scored an own goal here. no sympathy.
5

11+failed,

the pans 15/06/2008 09:23:54
"A property that was being talked about at, say, £200,000 a couple of months ago is now being valued at £180,000. Why? What's changed?"
Answer, the price! Even at the reduced price there are very few potential buyers as they have problems getting a loan apart from which the loans are getting more expensive.If the valuation is £180,000 then buyers are likely to be negotiating from £160,000. With more than an unprecedented 60% of properties for sale on a fixed price and a great selection of properties on the market "fixed price" means negotiate from in a buyers market.
6

11+failed,

the pans 15/06/2008 09:32:43
What has changed in a couple of months?
From ESPC,"We currently have 10,292 properties for sale or to let"
Up from 6000 a couple of months ago
7

ccc,

15/06/2008 10:27:40
Hey Techpunk. Not going to go on about my BS rantings again ?

Have you finally realised that most of the stuff I spout, whilst not what you want to hear, is actually the truth.........

Simple question - Did you complain when people 'talked the market up' ?

I guarantee you didn't. So stop whinging when the opposite happens. Because it always will. The downs follow the ups. The bust follows the boom. Some of us have known this for years and been trying to inform the masses. For what thanks..............
8

techpunk,

15/06/2008 10:39:43
#7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder

go see a doctor.
9

ccc,

15/06/2008 11:09:34
Techpunk - Don't get all touchy !!

Amusing how you call me delusional........

I am the one who has predicted a massive debt and asset bubble will be followed by a massive crash. You are the one who thinks prices here wont be hit too hard....

Please explain how I am the 'delusional' one........

10

Phil1,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 12:36:58
Andy Burrell, managing director of the Burrell Company

He liked the excesss profits of a rising property market but now wants surveyors to lie to keep his profits up.

Amazing - don't architects have to belong to a professional body and be honest or can grubby profiteers like Burrell say anything and do anything for money?

Buy the properties yourself if you are sure they are a bargain.
11

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 15/06/2008 12:45:41
The property market is in line for a major slump over the next 2 years, if not longer.

So if I was mad enough to buy anything right now I would want at least 10 per cent off the price anyway....
12

techpunk,

15/06/2008 12:53:13
CCC

Regarding your comments on the article, and our differing opinions, yes I do believe we will weather better than some areas, here in Edinburgh. Although you have "predicted" a "masssive crash" , I think that this has really not happened in Edinburgh (yet? maybe?) albeit the activities of housebuilders have, understandably, been suffocated, largely due to current capital raising issues, over ambitious sale figure projections, the market being battered by the press (denting confidence further) and such, and not through price fixing by surveyors, as implied by Burrell.

Regarding my opinion as to your mental condition (you did ask!), I believe that it is specifically a "grandios" delusional disorder (a fixed false belief that involves themes of special powers or abilities), which we are dealing with.

The tome of your comment "I am the one who has predicted" is very condusive with the behaviour you have displayed previously in most, if not all of your posts over the weeks (i.e, grandios delusional behaviour). This, along with your aggressive nature, dismissiveness (and all the other indicators which you display, and as listed on the link I posted earlier) suggest a problem to me.

But Hey! I'm no expert!
13

Crispycat,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 12:53:36
Andy Burrell?

Shouldn't that be Dick Burrell?

What an a*se

What's changed? No lender is giving people six times their salary and a 100% mortgage - people can't afford your overpriced rubbish so you need to reduce the price to what the market will bear.

Simple economics - you sound simple - surely you understand?

Idiot!
14

ccc,

15/06/2008 14:35:02
So you are a psychocholgist now as well TechnoPunk !!

Jeez no ends to your talents. Fact remains Edinburgh will be one of the worst hit areas in this minimum 4 years crash. I have gone through this time and time again and no-one has managed to come up with any decent argument against it.
15

Brian Ferrari,

15/06/2008 15:23:52
Mr B has shot at the wrong crow here.

It's the banks that have lowered the prices, not surveyors. Surveyors merely reflect the price that buyers are willing and able to pay for a property. If banks only lend a max of 75% on new build then the value will fall, and fall instantly.

Mr B hasn't though this through or has deliberately missed the point.
16

Barry_B,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 17:41:36
Is this a wind up?

"surveyors are following a 'herd' instinct on valuations"

Just like buyers do. that's why the price of property went up so mcuch to the benefit of people like him in the last few years.

"he insists the Scottish housing market is not in crisis"

Indeed, quite the reverse. It's returning to sanity.

"they're in danger of killing the market by stopping properties being sold,"

Not at all, unless they are saying properties are unmortgageable. They are helping the market by ensuring they get sold for the right price.

"a slump that will have nothing to do with real economic fundamentals."

This is planet earth calling. There is a real economic crisis out there! Look at all the stories surrounding this one! Let's see what we have:

* Inflation hits 3.1% and set to go higher
* Talks to decide AIG chief's fate as losses pile up
* HBOS pressed over property sector loans
* Short sharp shock
* How Barratt lost the plot
* Cracking under the strain
* Beware fragile foreign legion
* Crunch is seventh heaven for savers

All real economic fundementals.


"In my opinion it's self-interest – making sure they don't get caught out. Down-valuing has always gone on to an extent, but it seems to be picking up because of the current market nervousness."

And that is why prices went up so much? You seem to be deluded.

"Most developers and housebuilders in Scotland are still seeing demand in many areas and for many types of properties, yet values are being lowered. That goes against the law of supply and demand.

There is always demand from property. But people are not earning salaries on which they can pay mortgages on £200k shoeboxes.

"A property that was being talked about at, say, £200,000 a couple of months ago is now being valued at £180,000. Why? What's changed?"

That property would have been worth £50k 5 years ago, but it would have sold for £200k last summer. Why? What's changed?

What's changed? Interes
17

Barry_B,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 17:42:52
What's changed? Interest rates. Inflation. Banks going bust. Builders going bust. Estate agents going bust. Collapse of the liar loan mortgage market. Common sense and reality creeping back into one of the most massive bubbles ever seen.
18

geoffthechef,

chester 15/06/2008 17:43:19
I am afraid we are going to hear this more often as we are now entering the anger stage of the cycle..and i will tell you whats wrong. the fact that rabbit hutches went up 300% thats what wrong...50k a few years ago to 200k now..and you have the cheek to ask whats wrong.I honestly dont think you will survive the coming crash if you are squealing like a pig now wait until we are 40 to 50% down then you can squeal but you wont be heard above the news of all the other pigs who have been at the trough too long.... bring it on and enjoy the crash as it will be a long time before anyone dares to utter those immortal words again. "you cant go wrong with bricks and morter" oh yes you can just watch whats coming and be prepared.do not have any debt if you can help it as you will be vunerable to job losses and those nasty banks...
19

Balliol II,

Dunbar 15/06/2008 18:34:18
Confusion seems to reign here. As everyone including Burrell should realise it is the would-be buyers that determine the price paid - coupled of course to their ability to find the money. Surveyors advise on value in accordance with these two principal factors.
20

Scunner,

Ellon 15/06/2008 20:09:18
I am happy that we are seeing surveyors value property lower. It will help more people get on the propety ladder and reduce those buying to make a big profit which is one of the reasons prices have risen so much. With inflation being above target rates may rise and this could lead to prices reducing.
21

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

15/06/2008 20:18:53
BarryB: "Common sense and reality creeping back into one of the most massive bubbles ever seen."

Bubbles are a hobby interest of mine. There's no doubt that in terms of debt-to GDP ratios or percentage of the population participating, this is the largest credit bubble in history. Given the number of countries affected, it is arguably also the first global credit bubble.

It is likely that the denouement will be commensurate with the size of the bubble.
22

McMillar,

Fife 15/06/2008 22:14:36
Goes in a cycle blah blah blah…..probably at bottom and rises will return soon. Not really an issue if you have medium term view. Good time to buy in fact as may be a few bargains to be had. He does have a point about surveyors in general. They are usually a complete waste of space and not the brightest bunch. Brickie with a tape measure used to be the phrase! Mind you that may be an insult to brickies…Never seen the point of them and they charge a fortune for ‘photocopying’.
23

Angry Rob,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 22:37:57
"they're in danger of killing the market"

Comments such as this amuse me - for as long as people want to buy and sell houses there will be housing market. Surely he understands this. Surely he also understands that in a market everything has a price.

And surely he understands that if banks are no longer willing to lend as much as before then prices will fall.

If not, is he just trying to make a fool of himself?
24

ccc,

16/06/2008 07:25:39
#22

"Goes in a cycle blah blah blah…..probably at bottom and rises will return soon."

"Good time to buy in fact as may be a few bargains to be had"

This is the attitude that is going to bankrupt so many people. Please for your own good have a look at what happens in cycles. The UK property cycle has lasted for 18 years the last 2 times. This one is following the plan almost to perfection. That means we have at LEAST 4 years of falls before the market even thinks about picking up again. And the fact this has been the biggest British housing bubble of all time only points to the downturn being even longer and even deeper.

Something may look like a 'bargain' today but it may look expensive in 6 months. You need to understand that. RBS and Barratts shares looked like a 'bargain' six months ago. I bet you all those who dived in at that point are not thinking it was such a great idea after all....

 

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