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Published Date:
06 April 2008
SCOTTISH Secretary Des Browne today launches an astonishing personal attack on Alex Salmond, accusing him of living in a "parallel universe" and of abusing his position to create rifts with Westminster rather than governing the country.
In a stinging assault against the SNP Government, Browne declares the First Minister is running a "ridiculous" and "shoddy" administration which, he claims, is attempting to hoodwink Scots in order to "foster grievance" against the UK.

And Browne accuses Salmond of deliberately trying to smear London as a bully in order to "shift attention" from the SNP's local income tax plans so he can "blame its likely failure not on those who designed it but on those the SNP demand should administer it".

In an article for Scotland on Sunday, Browne declares: "The propaganda exercise to support the myth the SNP is the only level of government with any interest in Scotland is both demonstrably ridiculous and, from the evidence of this week, the central focus of their activity."

Browne mocks Salmond's visit to America last week where, he notes, the First Minister has been "comparing himself to Thomas Jefferson".

"In the parallel universe that the SNP inhabit, everything the UK Government does is portrayed as either an act of betrayal or interference in Scotland," he adds. "It's time they got on with governing rather than fostering grievance."

His outburst follows a week in which SNP and Labour ministers clashed over the SNP's controversial bid to bring in a new local income tax.

Chief Secretary to the Treasury Yvette Cooper wrote to Finance Secretary John Swinney warning him about a £750m black hole she had identified in the local income tax plans.

She asked Swinney to provide the Treasury with answers on how the gap would be met, how much the tax would cost to collect, and for evidence on why the new tax would be better.

But the request brought an angry response from the SNP, with Swinney's spokesman accusing the Treasury of "trying to lay down the law to the Scottish Government and Scotland – as if we were just another Whitehall department".

Swinney also complained the Treasury was "not acting in an even-handed fashion towards Scotland".

The SNP's plans rely on Westminster handing over £400m a year it currently pays to help poorer Scottish families cope with council tax bills. However, UK ministers say there is no reason for them to do so.

Browne issues a cutting riposte to Swinney today, questioning his competence and claiming he has demonstrated "the SNP's inability to either understand devolution or take responsibility for ill-conceived policies".

Reflecting on the row, Browne adds: "Only in this parallel universe could a letter from a UK Government Treasury minister, in response to correspondence asking for views on a local national income tax, be described as interference… A statement of fact that there is a huge hole in the SNP's shoddy calculations in the document which they issued to the Treasury for comment is derided as bullying.

"All of the above is calculated to shift attention from an ill-thought-through policy that will make hardworking families across Scotland worse off, and Scotland the highest taxed part of the UK. And to blame its likely failure not on those who designed it, but on those the SNP demand should administer it."

He also rounded on the Nationalists for demanding new powers over the seas around Scotland. Browne said: "Before a UK marine bill is published, the SNP minister responsible has contrived a demand for a power grab when he is being pressed by responsible groups to work together with the UK government to safeguard the marine environment.

"It is, I suspect, much more about the blatant tactics of a separatist minority who want to promote discord and foster disagreement to attempt to kick start support for wrenching Scotland out of the UK. When this, the only issue which binds the SNP, is losing support in any authoritative measure, then manufacturing rows is where Alex Salmond and his cohorts go to political comfort eat."

He continued: "The third, and most fundamental, problem for Alex Salmond is that his emphasis on grievance rather than government is not only a disservice to the interests of people of Scotland, it is also beginning to wear thin amongst Scots."

Aides to Browne said his attack against the SNP signalled a major change in Labour's response to the Nationalist government, as the party seeks to puncture Salmond's prolonged honeymoon in Edinburgh.

Last night, in a further ramping up of the row, UK Government sources declared they will dismiss a request by Swinney to have the funding dispute adjudicated by the Joint Ministerial Committee, a Whitehall forum where issues relating to Britain's devolved regions are discussed.

A Scotland Office source said: "John Swinney doesn't understand that the Joint Ministerial Committee do not make judgments on matters of fact. It is a fact that the council tax benefit is only paid if you receive council tax, just as it is a fact that the sun rises in the east."

Browne's full-frontal attack on the SNP's competence will infuriate Salmond and Swinney, who have sought to build up the SNP's credibility since winning the election a year ago.

They insist that the local income tax is fairer than the council tax. They also claim the £400m a year council tax rebate cash is "Scotland's money" and should therefore be handed over to them if council tax is scrapped.

The Nationalists have argued that when Labour was in government at Holyrood, the £400m was viewed as being Scottish cash.

The SNP add that the question of funding is not a matter for Westminster in "any shape or form". They say the UK Government should provide a "reassurance" that will not carry out a "cash-grab" if the Scottish Parliament were to bring in a local income tax.

The row was triggered earlier this year after Work and Pensions Secretary James Purnell told Scotland on Sunday that there was no chance of the cash being handed over.

DES BROWNE'S ARTICLE IN FULL

The full article contains 1021 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Angus Ogg,

05/04/2008 19:43:14
If there are any official Labour Party strategists out there, PLEASE...

Change your campaign to "Hope over Fear" rather than "Fear over Hope".

As a former Labour voter it is breaking my heart to see Labour making such a mess of this.

Labour lost the last election because of failure in the Labour message. PLEASE raise the game.

Alex Salmond is a charismatic and intelligent leader.

He has, above all, Scotland's interests at heart.

This is not an easy thing for Labour to combat. But Des Browne isn't doing it right with the above stuff. It just isn't the right way to tackle the current political climate in Scotland. Surely there are better brains at Labour HQ that can get an adequate strategy together ?
2

,

06/04/2008 00:24:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/04/2008 00:27:38
Eddie, you should be ashamed of yourself. Even by your low standards, this piece was awful.
4

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 06/04/2008 00:30:16
Nothing new here then. Labour are still in denial about how the Scottish people voted last year.

Dear Des

Scotland has a Government whether you like it or not. Our First Minister is trying to do his best for the people of Scotland whilst in government. The right thing to do. Whether that means fighting for a better cash settlement from Westminster or promoting Scotland abroad in the richest country in the world, both of these things are in our interest.

If you wish to become an MSP and fight for a different way at Holyrood, then I'm sure your comments would be more welcome. At the moment, you have your hands full with Afghanistan and Iraq, so I suggest you concentrate on that and earn your crust, courtesy of us, the taxpayers. Please stop using your power and influence to court the media on matters which are reserved for Holyrood.

Perhaps you'll get the chance to become an MSP when David Cameron takes over at No.10 in a couple of years.

Yours sincerely

Satisfied member of the Scottish public
5

ratzo,

06/04/2008 00:44:30
Expect many months of this from Des. On current polls his seat is one of the first to fall to the SNP at the next election.
6

democrate,

central Scotland 06/04/2008 00:49:50
Dear Mr Browne,

The people of Scotland know who has been hoodwinking them, and for a lot longer than the last 10 months. Where to begin?

MWD's in Iraq?

Education, education, education? PFI/PPF anyone?

MP's expenses? (As much for Mr Prescott's annual food bill as my granny gets in her annual pension?)

Party donations?

10% income tax rate?

Thatcher for tea?

Middens in Motherwell - whose fault?

A & E closures?

McCrone?

This is getting boring.....

Yours ever so sincerely,

Yet another satisfied Scottish voter, of the let's stand on our own two feet type.

7

,

06/04/2008 00:50:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

democrate,

central Scotland 06/04/2008 00:51:14
P.S. I forgot

SOCIALISM



(ha ha ha)
9

Shamus,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 00:52:13
Salmond has not hoodwinked the Unionist community, Des. We are still intact and active. The NATS are dreamers and losers.
10

democrate,

central Scotland 06/04/2008 00:55:25
poor Shamus, a community spirit.
11

Shamus,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 01:01:27
12# Do not underestimate our spirit.
12

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 06/04/2008 01:02:52
Just who is picking the fights?

First the refusal to continue paying the council tax benefit money. Then the way the prison building programme was funded to avoid triggering £100 million of Barnett formula money. An empty conference which did nothing but attack the SNP. Going back even further than that the worst financial settlement Scotland have had since devolution. All in case the SNP does something with the money that people like.

The Scottish people aren't stupid Des. Many of them have always been politically aware. Many more are becoming so. Your insane ramblings about £5000 per family lost you the last election. Where's my bill Des? When I go over the Forth Bridge for free, when my family get cheaper prescriptions, when my children don't have to pay the graduate endowment, when my council tax is frozen to give some relief on what has become an astoundingly unfair tax for many people. This Government has done more for most people in 11 months, without the powers they need, than Labour has in 11 years.
13

Senga Jean,

Scotland 06/04/2008 01:06:36
Browne takes Labour to new depths. If this is the last distorted cry of a feckless and failed entity then I hope its passing is quick. Scotland can do without such insulting nonsense as it aspires to greater heights. The millstone of Unionism is a terrible burden. Yes ;lets throw off the yoke of these selfhating naysayers.
14

subrosa,

06/04/2008 01:06:42
Desperation leads to inaccurate ramblings. John Swinney did not ask for anyone's views of LIT, he asked the woman concerned if he could have a meeting regarding the Inland Revenue as I understand it.

Oh dear, and there will be much more to come from this embittered and pathetic individual who is 'in charge' of our troops. No wonder they're leaving in droves.
15

Shamus,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 01:12:02
16# You sound like a welfare junky.
16

democrate,

central Scotland 06/04/2008 01:18:10
#19 Shamus

Not my habit to make personal attacks on posters, but I do not see the logic of your last riposte. Clearly you are on study leave as you can't spell and don't understand statistics, economics, history or politics and suffer from the inferiority complex most folk in Scotland have now jettisoned. My thoughts are with you.
17

democrate,

central Scotland 06/04/2008 01:20:13
#20

Kilmarnock and Loudon...........at the mo.
18

dave yae fife,

06/04/2008 01:21:02
Des go away nobody belives a word or endy says
19

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 06/04/2008 01:22:04
#19 Naww- The only welfare I've had in over twenty years since leaving school is child benefit.

In fact I'm probably paying a share of your welfare. Don't mistake me though, I think decent services need to be paid for. I do have an issue with many of the quangos and free-loaders.

I'm just looking for a bit of help in spinning out my hard-earned rather than another stealth tax. I'm also remarkably impressed with achievements from the SNP to date, with one hand tied behind their backs.
20

dave yae fife,

06/04/2008 01:22:06
sorry missed the you
21

Matt there,

somewhere 06/04/2008 01:27:14
Ah, Eddie! He who takes a Labour Party press release and re-prints it verbatim.

You are not a journalist, Eddie.

You are a vent's dummy.
22

Shamus,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 01:28:55
21# Please continue with having a habit.
23

democrate,

central Scotland 06/04/2008 01:39:37
#28 Shamus

I was rather hoping to see a spirited defence of your position...........
24

,

06/04/2008 02:19:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
25

Cincinnatus,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 02:39:51
The only valid criticism that Labour could have of the SNP, is that they are far too much like Labour - it's all very well ramping up expectations and cutting tuition fees, prescription charges etc - the reality is, that in an Independent country the tax burden would have to increase to sustain such largesse.

The SNP to gain power became National Socialists and that is a very bad combination, Nationalist by all means but practical and prudent - not building fictional utopias that are in the longer term utterly unsustainable unless the administration changes policies and moves to a more entrepreneurial ethos and helps that spread throughout the country and political classes.

Right now, it's a poker game!
26

Guga II,

Rockall 06/04/2008 02:55:07
The New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party held power in Scotland for 50 years, and only succeeded in dragging us down into the mire. Even with 8 years of their North British Branch running things in Scotland, they only succeeded in running us into the ground.

Their current Westminster government is filled with cheats, liars, crooks and charlatans that are only interested in screwing the taxpayer for every halfpenny they can get their greedy mitts on; like making us pay for their TV licences, groceries, dry cleaning, utility bills, make-up, "second" houses etc. etc.

Browne is a waste of space and a total incompetent. He is useless as a part-time Defence Secretary, and he can't even manage the part-time non-post of Scottish Secretary.

Never mind, come the May elections in England, and the next general election, these champagne "socialists" will get wiped out; and, in the latter case, both Browne and Broon will lose their seats
27

Robert Dunn,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 03:08:17
Denis Healey's famous reference to an attack by his opponent Geffrey Howe was like being "savaged by a dead sheep." should provide Alex salmond with great comfort. Des Browne is even less effective than the aforesaid "dead sheep".




28

donald,

glasgow 06/04/2008 03:26:37
Des Broone, London carpet baggge handler.
29

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 03:26:55
SHAMUS, Its not so much your spirit we question, its your motivation to betray the Scottish People we worry about. Did you enjoy yourself at the Rangers match the other night. Thought I saw you waving your Union Jack as you spewed at the Gers performance.

Cincinattus, Give it a break and do tell us exactly why we would need to increase the TAX base for the Scottish People. Increased income from the theft of our Countries Money does in no way end up in increased taxes. The UK is in the top three countries who tax their people and economies the highest. At least they are leading in some areas.

Scotlands wealth will increase substantially after our Independance. What we need to do is fix up the generational neglect of our own kind. It wont be about handouts, it will be about investing in our Nations future through people. That is our real wealth little man.
30

James,

Dundee 06/04/2008 03:31:10
It's the end days of the Nanny British State. Mrs Doubtfire-Browne shall join the New Liebour experiment on the scrapheap and can then get a job more appropriate to his skills, One of these guys going round pubs selling fake watches or contraband fags.

This rag gives carte blanch to Labour spin, boycott the hard copy and send a firm message to Eddie Barnes and his team of apologists.
31

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 03:39:12
Des Browne is such a trustworthy man. He believes in the democratic freedom of the People.

Yet he continues to try undermine the democratically elected SNP Scottish Government using his position and funding to do so. A bit of a hypocrit at the best of times, he uses his Defence Budget to raise an action in the English High Court, using our money, to have a judge stop a Coroner using Language that confirms the neglect of his Government on providing the proper resources to protect their lifes. I suppose silencing the Coroner will Des hopes let him sleep at night over the Deaths of this group of countries young people. Our Young men and Women are the real heroes of this generation. Its a pity that they have been betrayed by Des Browne and his Gordon Brown moronic meglamaniac London New Labour Party.

Do not forget this moron when election time comes round again. One out All out. Not one deserves to survive.
32

Ken W,

Fife 06/04/2008 04:47:17
Des, as Scottish Secretatary of State you are paid by us to work for Scotland's interests, Yet you support retaining over 400 million pounds of the Block Grant due to Scotland and a further 120 million pounds in increased Prison spending due under the terms of the Barnet Formula.
If I had employed someone who then approved withholding 620 million from my business I would not only sack him but would drag his behind through the courts for his outright corruption.

I sincerely look forward to you losing your seat at the next election. You are lucky to get off so lightly.
33

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 06/04/2008 05:32:05
Did DES Browne ever pass an eleven plus exam????
34

Dileas,

06/04/2008 06:03:13
Labour never fail to amaze me. It is remarkable how they managed to hang on to "power" for so long but they are clearly rattled now that the SNP is doing so well in a frankly difficult situation.

So we should listen to a discredited politician complain about the party that has done more in less than a year than Labour who have been so busy feathering their own nests for eleven years now?

We should listen to bairns throwing their rattles out of the pram because they are in the huff?

And we should believe that Yvette Cooper of all people could identify "a £750m black hole ... in the local income tax plans" even as she fell into it?

I thought the Settlement provided for a three percent change in income tax in Scotland. So why is Labour at Westminster adding the provision "provided they approve of it", meaning if it is Labour-sponsored.

How much more damage can Labour do to itself in Scotland?

How can Labour win at the next Westminster elections without Scottish support?

How can Labour have any future with its present level of competence, fostered only by career opportunists?
35

Macuistean,

Isle of Tiree 06/04/2008 06:09:37
U-Gov poll: Scottish Parliament constituency vote with changes on the election last May - SNP 40% (+7): Lab: 32% (nc): Con: 12% (-5): LD: 13% (-3): Oth 4%
36

Soosider,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 06:32:28
Is this the best that the Labour Party in Scotland can do? no new ideas, no vision, UK ministers commenting on Holyrood matters?
Shame on this incompetent career politician, what happen to the solid principles of the Labour movement?
37

Argyll on line,

Argyll 06/04/2008 06:57:12
This is the second nonsensical rant by Desperate Des this sad blatt allows today.Can Wendy and Co not speak for themselves?
38

happyhibbie,

The Inch, Edinburgh 06/04/2008 07:30:58
Slippery Salmond was doing a good job of digging his own political grave but it would seem that Daft Des wants to jump into it.
39

roughrider,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 07:40:42
Browne ,you are nothing but a puppet for yer London masters , you are an embarassment to Scotland with yer pathetic unionist childish rantings, A Salmond is way ahead of labour in every opinion poll and he will lead Scotland to independence from the scumbags in the liebour warmongering scaremongering corruption ridden
union. The sooner the better.
Oh and did Broon write the script for your idiotic ranting.
40

Stephen101,

Who told him to say this? 06/04/2008 07:43:52
Who is pulling Des's strings on this one.

The Cardinal or Gordon? e should be told.
41

crepes84,

06/04/2008 07:54:04
I recently had the misfortune to hear this character speak in public and he is a perfect example of why the Party is imploding, bereft of any personality, backbone or ideas. As a former Labour supporter, I congratulate the Scottish Government and Alex Salmond for there efforts this far. Keep it up!
42

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 08:01:19
I imagine that we will have the usual small band of desperate unionistas coming on here and telling us that this latest hissy fit from the increasingly Des(perate) Browne is yet another example of a nationalist inspired artificial spat with Westminster.

Surely even they must see that Browne is not only an embarrassment, he is a total cretin.

He appears in print in a national newspaper ( I use the term “newspaper” loosely) and insults the First Minister, the Scottish Government and the Scottish People.

Leaving aside the blatant breach of etiquette of such an approach, (would he dare say any of these things in public about the Governments of Ireland, Norway or France?), it displays, in its full colours, his contempt for the institution of the Scottish parliament and for the Scottish People who voted overwhelmingly to have such a body.

I actually think that for once, the SoS is to be congratulated for publishing this Labour press release, and exposing the true nature of the labour party’s contemptuous view of Scotland and our people.
43

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 08:09:36

Andrew BOD, Aberdeen/shire 06/04/2008 00:30:16

Good morning, Very good post

The panic is very definitely setting in. Keep up the good work Alex and John.
The panic seems to be worse at Hootsmoan Towers
44

Brian M,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 08:10:33
Labour and the Scotsman still in denial mode I see.

I am better off already under government by a Scottish party -
£500 from council tax freeze, £200 from scrapping bridge tolls, £250 from not buying the Scotsman and SoS. I stoppped buying them a couple of months ago when it became obvious that they are so fearful of Scotland becoming successful under the SNP that their articles are more and more like propaganda for the London-controlled Scottish Labour party and it's crew of self-confessed lawbreakers.
45

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 08:18:24
It's about time that our representatives in Westminster 'took off the gloves' and started reacting to the truculent and self-serving behaviour of the nationalists. Mr Salmond and Mr Swinney have been treated with courtesy and patience by our Westminster politicians. The SNP's evermore outlandish claims and accusations have been received with little more than a smile and a polite correction from our Westminster politicians. Not now.
It is time to make the SNP face up to their responsibility in government. They've wasted enough time with their ludicrous side-shows, whether it's whining about the chessmen, the BBC or any number of things which takes the spotlight off them bringing back full-blown Thatcherite rate-capping in our local authorities.
Their only real skill has been in deflecting blame. Just look at these and other boards. Any posts or articles critical of the SNP and what do the cybernats do? Defend the SNP? Never, it is always attacks usually personal on either the Labour Party or the journalist or poster who made the comments. The thing the nationalists here don't seem to realise is that the more vile and poisonous their replies the more people recoil at their repellent behaviour.
46

Carlung,

06/04/2008 08:28:40

I note, that the SNP Scottish Government has now come under attack from 4 Westminster Ministers - Gordon Brown, Des Browne, Yvette Cooper and David Cairns - in the past couple of weeks.
Is this a tacit admission that Wendy Alexander simply isn't up to it?
For the Scottish secretary to be so anti-Scottish is shamefull - send him back to London and sort out Labour's illegal war.
If Scottland had been independent, our troops would still be at home.

47

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 08:31:05
#58
"the more people recoil at their repellent behaviour."

Really?

SNP 37 % Labour30 % Tories18 % Lib Dems 11 % Others 4 %
YouGov Poll Commissioned by the Sunday Times, Scottish sample 197, Surveyed 13 - 14 March 2008.
48

Shug the Dug,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 08:32:03
Des Browne snaps about him like a rabid dog and exhibits the same ability to think cogently. Centralist administrations have all had their rottweilers. We unthinking Scots voters survived Brian Wilson and Michael Forsyth to name but two in the recent past but at least they had the excuse of being elected to Westminster. Browne was elected by a section of the same electorate he so easily dismisses as being easily misled. I am English, married to a Scot, and have considered Scotland my home since 1976. At that time I was a confirmed Labour supporter; the product of generations of real socialists; but increasingly, as I watched, listened, and analysed what passed for politics in Scotland under direct Westminster rule, and having been appalled at the duplicity and gerrymandering of successive central governments, I, along with many, many, disaffected and disenchanted socialists held to my beliefs as Labour slid on the slime and sleaze of Blairite policies ever more to the right. And who did I find doing a better job than Labour as the only true social democrat party in Scotland? The SNP of course. I should also mention that I was able to witness the same Mr Salmond who is anything but "immature" although is thankfully totally "single minded" when it comes to the people he has been elected to represent. In my close experience of him, both in public and private, he is most certainly not the "greasiest, most disingenious, manipulative cretin alive." His old university chum - Wilson - has a better claim to that epithet. I am proud to be one of "the few silly voters" who were still enough to beat the sycophantic, London-lapdogs that populate particularly the Labour and Tory parties. Alba gu brath old chap.
49

McMillar,

Fife 06/04/2008 08:33:25
Being ‘savaged’ by Browne is the equivalent of a glowing endorsement. Clearly scared but also very very incompetent. Browne is a non-entity and has the personality of a plastic cup. Salmond is a huge improvement on the previous administration and this just all seems to stem from Gordon Brown’s inability to get on with the SNP. He sets the tone and his muppets think that is an appropriate way to operate. Pathetic
50

PDdod,

Peterhead 06/04/2008 08:41:56
The 'BLOCK GRANT was reduced by 7% under the previous Conservative government. Under Blair it was increased by 25% The purpose of the grant is to assist councils with the Council Tax. When and if the CouncilTax is replaced by a local income tax the Council Tax is then no more and so to is the £4million in CT assistance. You dont pay a pensioner when he is dead.
The very first Dewar led Scottish Executive recieved £15 billion form the Westminster treasury -The new Salmond led Scottish Government is in receipt of double that amount
51

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 08:47:57
#58

Do you think the more you spout your bile and venom, the more people are going to agree with you??
You'll see a big change in attitudes when New Labour Sleaze and Corruption get their richly deserved kicking in the English local authority (cooncil to you) elections.
If you want to keep portraying yourself as a subservient citizen in the Socialist paradise that is Comrade Broon's Britain - fine but you'll find yourself becoming lonelier and lonelier. Even more so when Independence is declared.
Have a nice day!
52

Wendy Alexander,

06/04/2008 08:49:47
Nice to see two jobs Des the part time Scottish secretary,trying to slate the full time First minister of Scotland.Just when you think they can't sink any lower,"Bang" Des does it again.This from a man who up to 2 years ago you had'nt heard of.Keep it up Salmond,it seems you've got them on the back foot.One more thing Des when will you give Scotland your full attention,just like OUR First Minister?.
53

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 09:00:25
If you are a nationalist supporter join the campaign to keep Des Browne as Sec of State for Scotland. The man is just so inept. He is the one living in a parallel universe.

#1 Angus Ogg. Truth dawns. Come over from the dark side and join us.
54

brownlie,

06/04/2008 09:01:54
58 Grahamski,

Great stuff. You do well to point out that calling the Scottish Government "ridiculous" and "shoddy" is not in any way "vile and poisonous". I am a bit concerned, however, that one of us called Salmond a cretin. As you know a cretin can be defined as someone with a stunted physical development. As you know, this is clearly a contradiction of Jackie's memo which quite clearly stated that as the only credible criticism we can make of Salmond is his "ever-increasing waist-line" we have to make sure we concentrate on this.
55

scottish person,

paisley 06/04/2008 09:04:30
Why is this paper called the Scotsman?
I am so glad shamus went to bed.
All of the unionist tumshies should buy the daily rectum and sunday mail for comfort reading.
56

David MacVicar,

Web 06/04/2008 09:05:39
After opinion polls come out and give Salmond a huge lead in popularity figures, Des attacks him personally.

These guys must want people to move to the SNP!

Why is Wendy not on the attack or does nobody care what she says anymore.

In anycase Des is attacking the SNP and AS because Des and Labour have nothing whatsoever to offer Scotland. Nothing. Scotland is a resource to use and abuse.

In anycase this is great stuff. Blair and Broon came up North to talk down to everybody and helped Labour lose the Scottish election with its lies and comparison of Scotland to Albania. Now Des has the same tactic.

All these London loving BritScots will all come up North for the UK GE and try to save their seats, careers and positions. What will they have to offer the electorate?

What have Des, Gordy and the BritScots actually done to serve their constituencies interests within the UK and Scotlands place as an equal partner? SFA.

All they do is:
Use their vote to vote for things Scots dont want:
Trident, Illegal War, Nuclear power, Tax on Scottish industries, Raising basic income tax to hit the lowest earners (of which there are more per capita in Scotland)...

Lets not forget if Labour is the party of 'partnership' why then do the following:
Giving the Scottish Parliament a lower increase than anywhere else.
Compensation for English Farmers not Scots (also all Scottish Labour MSPS voted against the compensation!)
Planning to give new money to English/Welsh prisons out of central funds but Scotland gets nothing.

Hey Des - Actions and inactions peak louder than your empty rhetoric
57

happyhibbie,

The Inch, Edinburgh 06/04/2008 09:07:12
61 - I don't know what a local income tax has to do with real socialism but there's no doubt that the Labour Party has turned its back on its core support.

When so-called Middle England turns back to the tories, that will be the end for New Labour in England and they will spend a long, long time in opposition.

Unfortunately for the SNP though, that is when Scotland will once again get behind the Labour Party and abandon the home rulers.
58

The Strategist,

06/04/2008 09:07:29
Interesting Des B has produced this now and I wonder if he was tipped off about the article in today's Sunday Times which begins "LABOUR'S Scottish heartlands are the most vulnerable areas in the UK to a housing crash, according to new figures which show thousands of homeowners face having mortgages bigger than the value of their properties."

Herein lies Labour's problem. Des and his chums have completely screwed up the economy and there isn't really anyway they can now disguise that. I suggest therefore this a ZanuPF type diversion.
59

overshot,

perth 06/04/2008 09:10:43
The SNP in the their first administration, have done considerably well. Since devolution our country has been run in a shoddy manner by Mr Browne's colleagues. Now they are being shown up by the new boys , they do not like it. What kind of mess would it be in if Wendy's mob had control. Scotland would still be kow towing to Westminister. Lets keep moving forward, it is the only direction Scotland has. FREEDOM
60

www.r-o-a-r.org,

Dundee 06/04/2008 09:13:49
CMon Desperate Des - this kinda rubbish scaremongering did not work at the election and if you think it will make a single switched voter of difference then keep it up - I think you will see Labour fall even lower in the MSP count come the next election.

And whilst we have your attention
Why not explain your latest piece of cowardice concerning the armed forces.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/06/military.iraq

"Army families fear that the truth about the deaths of soldiers killed in friendly fire or other controversial incidents will be concealed under proposed government powers to hold secret inquests without a jury."

Labour lost the election because they did not realise people were fed up with their lies and deception and thinking people did not have the bottle to change governments. Well they did and I suspect they are very happy they did too.

Deal with the fact you lost and that you will lose again.
61

brownlie,

06/04/2008 09:14:00
63 PD

Well spotted in noting the fact that you cannot pay a pensioner when dead and cleverly not pointing out that live pensioners can pay Gordon Brown's council tax as a tribute to his valuable service to the 600,000 Scots who will be worse off after his abolishing the 10% rate of tax.
62

,

06/04/2008 09:16:32
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63

Nikostratos,

06/04/2008 09:20:27

"foster grievance" against the UK.

"a letter from a UK Government Treasury minister, in response to correspondence asking for views on a local national income tax, be described as interference"

"Alex Salmond is that his emphasis on grievance rather than government"

"the blatant tactics of a separatist minority"

Ever quote demonstrably true well said Des............The fact is it is not possible for Westminster to find some sort of consensus with a small bunch of 'Nat' extremist fanatics whose every fibre of their being is dedicated to the destruction of the United Kingdom.
64

,

06/04/2008 09:23:18
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65

Nikostratos,

06/04/2008 09:30:21
#69

Adolf hitler was popular
stalin was and still is popular in russia
mugabe was popular
pol pot was popular
Miloševic was popular
Khomeini was popular
franco was popular
Thatcher was popular

popularity does not mean being 'Right' As for what scots don't want they don't want 'Independence' only a very small 23% Alex said so.........
66

PDdod,

Peterhead 06/04/2008 09:30:43
Very few of Scotlands pensioners pay any tax 63. You are unaware or are in denial of the raised 'allowance' coding regarding pensioners which in my own case is raised to 634 from the last financial year figure to 475. A difference of 159
Along with any other pensioners paying tax on their company or private pension i shall benefit from the flat tax rate reduction from 22 to 20% On advice received i shall be around £200 less in my tax liability to the treasury
67

Linda,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 09:35:08
Pdod is talking nonsense by increasing lowset tax rate from 10p to 20p Labour has penalised all lower paid taxpayers.

Change is not what Labour do.

Constant anti SNP front page headlines from this newspaper is just like Zimbabwe Herald.

68

walter,

06/04/2008 09:35:20
#65
Nice to see two jobs Des the part time Scottish secretary,trying to slate the full time First minister of Scotland.

That is not strictly true, two jobs Des as you say is trying to slate full time FM.
Salmond is a member of the UK parliament as well as FM of Scotland.
He has visited London 6 times in the past 11 months to represent his constituents as a member of the UK parliament, he spent time in negotiations with the Trump organisation in his capacity as a member of the UK parliament while all while being FM of Scotland.
He cannot be the full time FM of Scotland if he stops acting as FM to represent his Banff & Buchan constituents as a MP.
69

GMCD,

dundee 06/04/2008 09:36:05
Fair comment....
Salmond and his SNPites are not running the country.
They are inventing a series of grievances that they can blame on the UK...and at the same time it's not their fault...simualtaneously saying we're in charge and demitting all responsibility to the UK...talk about a Scottish cringe.......this will not impress the majority of Scots who are not true believers in independence....
70

Linda,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 09:37:11
This is same Des Browne who hoodwinked the entire UK population over the illegal war in Iraq.

Thousands will not die aa a result any of SNP policy.
71

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 09:37:20
In his attack on the Nationalists, Des Browne forgets that imitation is the best form of flattery?

The Unionists have been hoodwinking Scotland for 300 years!
72

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 09:38:26
#70

You appear to be somewhat confused, as befits a self confessed labourite supporter.

The gist of your attempt at political analysis appears to be that the prospect of a Tory government at Westminster will result in the Scottish electorate deserting the concept of “home rule” in their droves.

I note that you tend to equate the SNP with Nazis and the Labour Party with Socialism

I suspect that you are probably still at school, and have no real concept of the true meaning of the phraseology you so glibly employ.

I will therefore put your shallow and facile views down to your youthful naivety and lack of serious study of a subject, which sadly appears to be beyond your limited comprehension.
73

brownlie,

06/04/2008 09:41:56
77 Nikostratos

Great Post.

You are quite right in reminding the nats that between 1.5 million and 2.5 million Scots (depending what poll you beleive) are only a "small bunch".

80 PD

Correct in pointing out that as you yourself and Gordon Brown are better off that the "few" pensioners can subsidise that.
74

John S,

06/04/2008 09:42:55
To the Scottish Government give Westminster a fright by holding a Scottish referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

75

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06/04/2008 09:50:18
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76

brownlie,

06/04/2008 09:50:31
83 GMCD

You are quite right there. Why should people cringe when they are being deprived of nearly £2 million which Gordon Brown can use to prop up an ailing regime. The nats should grin and bear it like the rest of us.
77

Elizabeth I (1558-1603 AD),

edinburgh 06/04/2008 09:50:51
Well said Browne. And please can we have some more of the same and on a regular basis. Who do Salmond and his cronies think they are!
I also think it is a scandal and a disgrace that the Scottish people are not up in arms,furious,and that they allowed this annoying little man Mr Salmond to stand up in front of a USA audience and demand that Scotland should be an independent country, while in his own country back home only 23% of Scotland's people support independence! Scotland should rid the country of this pathetic man with a chip on his shoulder ASAP!!
78

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/04/2008 09:51:28
69 - you forgot...Blair was popular..
Unfortunately for the "comrades" (eg Red Wendy), Broon isnae !
79

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/04/2008 09:52:25
Sorry, meant 79 !
80

,

06/04/2008 09:53:17
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81

thinking,

Scotland 06/04/2008 09:54:53
I am not a Labourite but on one thing I do agree. You cannot stop Council Tax and expect do get a rebate on Council Tax which no-one pays.
Surely the majority of those who receive a council tax rebate are those who do not pay, or pay very little income tax. If there is no Council tax then they won't be paying it so don't need a rebate. If it is income tax then they will only pay if they have used their personal allowance already. The only way to change that and give them rebates would be to change the tax system for everybody
#16
Your bill hasn't arrived yet!!
82

,

06/04/2008 09:57:23
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83

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 06/04/2008 09:57:57
78 Ciderman

So Salmond is a "fat spineless slug, a self-serving oick, and a liar".

Your desperate, offensive language sums up the lack of any substantive arguments against the current Scottish Government. At the same time you have delivered a damning character assessment on yourself.

Des Browne's comments are a travesty for Scottish Labour. Scotland needs an independent Labour party that is in touch with the people and that can stand on it's own two feet. These, like yours, are desperate comments from a London Government who have little credibility and whose views therefore, carry no weight with the Scottish people. They promote Alex Salmond's case, and a number of people with unionist views on this very thread have dismissed them as such. The clock is ticking on the time they have left.
84

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/04/2008 10:00:03
80 - Thanks to Broon's raid on private pensions, myself and a lot of others will have to work beyond the age of 65. But then that was the message of Nu Lab, we should be prepared to work into our dotage.
Unlike the real "sons of toil" - Broon, his MPs and of course, the civil service who can retire at the grand old age of 60.
85

Alfred E. Neuman,

06/04/2008 10:00:26
96 Thinking

Unfortunately for you your very existence disproves your moniker.

Brown does behave like Stalin in this manner. He taxes his people more than he needs, he then suggest to his people he is generous by giving them "the governments" money back though various tax credits, rebates and other invented words that bear little resemblence to reality.

There is no question anything called a rebate/tax credit belongs to Scotland. In London before robert peeler invented the pigs this is how robbers operated, the took what they didn't need and then returned it to their owners (for a fee) and claimed to provide a service to teh commmunity. Brown is no better.
86

,

06/04/2008 10:00:57
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87

,

06/04/2008 10:04:01
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88

McX,

06/04/2008 10:05:02
Browne's opinion is the verbal equivalent of this:


http://tinyurl.com/6ysvhd
89

pehman,

sussex 06/04/2008 10:06:23
Just a few more days of this crap left to go.

After the local election results come in slab mwp's will be forced to look at where they want to be in 2 years time.

Maggie will be gone by the summer recess and with him will go darling browne cairns et al. the knock on effect will hit slab MSP's too leaving them even more exposed
90

Phil C,

06/04/2008 10:08:24
Browne is talking to a diminishing number of Labour's clapping seals. Keep it up Des!
91

walter,

06/04/2008 10:10:11
If I am getting the gist of what is being said right, It is that a member of the UK parliament even though he represents a Scottish constituency Browne in this case should keep out of Scottish politics.
92

John S,

06/04/2008 10:11:39
#95 - To hold a advisory plebiscite on the new European constitution the SNP would need the support of the Green and Scottish Tory Party and they must surely follow their public policy and help make it happen.
To hold a Scottish independence referendum the SG would need 65 of the MSP's to say yes and why should the SNP try and hold a Scottish independence referendum before the next UK general election which must be held before 3 June 2010.
93

baron george foulkes etc...,

06/04/2008 10:14:14
102#
No! he was a member of Labour in the fifties when they really were labour not new labour..
94

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 06/04/2008 10:14:16
Again, you hold name calling above real arguments. And you fall into the trap of using the 'corrupt' word which most people would associate with Labour.

Quisling derives from the Norwegians who collaborated with the Nazis during the last world war. The best parallel for that in Scotland is Wendy and her team collaborating with London Labour in reserved Holyrood matters.
95

shivago8,

livingston 06/04/2008 10:14:54
Where did baw face Browne,him with the teddy bear look a like,get these big words.
This man is a joke and the jokes that he tells are bizarre.
He should be spending more time on the ill equipped sodjers and trying to patch up a depleted and disgruntled army.
He knows his ill fated labour,sorry,I forgot to say new,are on the way out as is he.
The last 10 years wi his lot have nearly reduced this country to that of a banana republic.
Destroyed all our great institutions,flooded the country with foreigners,taking all our dosh in taxes and seem to have the habit of doing things that the people of this country do not want.
Apart from lining there pockets,buying second homes,up to every tax evasion exercise that crucifies us,I dont think Mogabe is all that bad
96

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 06/04/2008 10:14:57
110 was for you Ciderman @ 103
97

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06/04/2008 10:15:42
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98

Alfred E. Neuman,

06/04/2008 10:16:18
107 walter

No you have missed the gist you tool.

Browne is "Secretary of State for Scotland." So in theory he is the filter that all of the crap the SNP produce should filter through on its way to Westminster.

He speaks in that regard on strained relations within the UK. There is no question he is entitled to comment on that as that is his the UK position he holds.

The SNP are little trouble right enough and there is nothing Browne sais which is not true. But Alex Salmond and co will love this, they pick fights and then play the victim. You just need to read all of the posts above to realise the mindset of the SNP.

"This unprovoked assault and so on."

The SNP have been doing his head in for 11 months no doubt, winding him up and building friction like circular motion on a carpet. But they wanted him, or someone similair to do this so they can have their next whinge about how oppressed the SNP are.
99

Jock 107,

06/04/2008 10:16:25
102 Ciderman

"What does he say should be done apart from pontificating and criticising?"

When asked he said: "Eh? Eh? About half past three... I'm 83 ye know.." and muttered something about his son spending all day on teh computer having a www
100

seaweasel,

06/04/2008 10:19:06
While there are many reasons to dislike Des Browne and consider him unfit for public office, mine boils down to the experience of someone I know who met him while he was with the Northern Ireland office. Seemingly he spent the duration of their journey in his ministerial car bragging about the fact they could run as many red lights as they wanted in it.

This typifies the arrogance and nose in the trough mentality that is found in the Labour party from grassroots council level to Holyrood and Westminster. Thankfully it seems that Scotland and the rest of the UK are waking up to this, but the process has taken far too long, and we can only hope that they'll get wiped out in the next Scottish and UK elections. Given that Scottish Labour still haven't seen sense after losing an election, it seems that nothing but a proper trouncing will do. Even though I'm an SNP supporter, I think it's a tragedy that a party which was founded to promote social justice and equality has transformed into New Labour and we'd have a far healthier democracy if they returned to those values (and meant it).
101

Queen D,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 10:19:21
Anyone read a little piece on how G Brown is going to sell off London Hosptals to developers and then let the hospitals rent them back?
Apparently it will raise money in the millions for the Treasury.
Labour are SKINT and desperate!
Yippee!
102

Jim P,

06/04/2008 10:21:26
Alex Salmond ate my hamster (true!).
103

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06/04/2008 10:21:53
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104

beckypumps1,

Fife 06/04/2008 10:22:07
This is desperate stuff, I think the writings on the wall for the Labour party (so called Scottish bit)

The standard of reporting is pretty desperate as well yet another attack on the SNP. The wind has changes guys wake up and smell the coffee.
105

Queen D,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 10:25:52
Browne is a "shoddy " little man, and whoever took this Labour press release is also a "shoddy" little man!
106

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06/04/2008 10:26:23
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107

Boab,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 10:28:12
114 Alfred: Talking of playing the victim ... anyone watch X-Factor? Have you ever noticed how they keep bringing on Scottish sad cases (lost their job, just been through a divorce etc)?

Kind of reminds me of the West of Scotland's continued devotion to Labour: "Thank you Simon, ye've do so much fer me ..."
108

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06/04/2008 10:28:31
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109

walter,

06/04/2008 10:30:42
#114
Alfred E. Neuman,
Oh, I get it, the nats are fully supporting that UK ministers should intervene in Scottish affairs.
There was me thinking they were insinuating that they had no right as Holyrood had a SNP government to run Scotland and it was nothing to do with UK MPs.

P.S. Thank you for your kind words, I presume the word TOOL was used in an affectionate manner.
110

brownlie,

06/04/2008 10:31:58
114 Walter

Great post, Wattie, people like Walter forget that Des is the Secretary of State for Scotland and was voted into that post by 98% of the Scottish population to "filter" on our behalf. They, being swivel-eyed, with a proclivity for all things Scottish, probably mixed him up with another Dessie who sends soldiers to war with out-of-date equipment which puts their lives in danger.
111

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 06/04/2008 10:33:41
Looks like dodgy Des has thrown all his toys out of the pram.
While I have some SNP leanings, I have to admit that wee Eck is making a right horlicks of his LIT proposal and he is not a lot better on electricity generation as he refuses to stop the windfarm madness.
112

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 06/04/2008 10:34:51
119 Ciderman

If you have an issue with some of the "rank vitriol" as you put it, then name and shame. Don't use it yourself. I've got no "colleagues" on this thread.

As far as the high ground is concerned, I'm not interested. I only wish to hear meaningful debate from all sides.

Getting back onto the point, you say " Salmond and his cabal are not universally liked for their politics". His rating and SNP support has now actually increased in the latest polls. Hardly your assessment.
113

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06/04/2008 10:34:59
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114

brownlie,

06/04/2008 10:35:49
128
Sorry, should have read 114 Alfred and Great post Alfred - sorry Walter

115

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 06/04/2008 10:36:09
Well we've certainly been hoodwinked with the proposed poll tax.
116

Publius,

Girvan 06/04/2008 10:37:08
Browne is wrong about many things especially wars in far off places, but he is right about one thing - local income tax. Labour's tinkering with income tax this year will hit all low paid/low pensioned people under 65 with no children. The SNP's local income tax will hit all low paid people with or without children.

The SNP should learn from Labour's mistake and desist from the local income tax before low paid voters catch on.
117

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06/04/2008 10:37:10
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118

Scotish Exile,

06/04/2008 10:38:25
Why is any attention being paid to what a complete clown like Des Browne says, he is a classic example of a numpty Labour politician, completely incompetent and snout in the trough as far as it will go
119

Publius,

Girvan 06/04/2008 10:38:30
#131 Ciderman

Right on. My post 134 overlapped yours.
120

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 10:39:35
135 Ciderman

Does that include the 23% poll for independence?
121

Mike Partick,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 10:44:02
I think when someone (in this case Mr Browne) resorts to abuse of other politicians, it is a fairly safe bet that they have lost, or are losing, the argument. As for him claiming that the SNP are engaged in a propaganda war, you just have to cast your mind back to last year's Scottish Labour Party conference where, one after the other, Blair, Brown and Reid gave dire warnings about what would happen if the SNP came to power to see real untruths and propaganda.
122

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 06/04/2008 10:48:22
The unionist parties are the only ones hoodwinking Scotland...sadly some people are still happy to be taken in by them willingly.
123

www.r-o-a-r.org,

Dundee 06/04/2008 10:48:38
Labour LOST the election because even their hard core supporters in Scotland are seeing throught their continual LIES.
124

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 10:49:30
Today’s date is the 6th April 2008.

6th April 1320 is the date of the signing of the Declaration of Arbroath.

Nae luck unionista cringers, there are still more than 100 of us remaining alive, and we now form the Scottish Government.

We have never gone away, nor are we likely to go away now.

Peoples from all over the world take inspiration from our Declaration of Independence.

What inspirations have been provided by any of the Nu Liebour acolytes?

Blair, Brown, Browne, Cairns, all non entities compared to the first First Minister with Scotland’s interests at heart.

Who would now turn the clock back to sycophantic, cringing, sleaze ridden labourtory rule of Scotland?

Let those who would do so, stand up and identify themselves.

125

Miss H,

06/04/2008 10:50:54
Oh dear. I am quite torn on this one. As an SNP member I am aware that we can only gain from these kinds of outburts (albeit a written one) by Labour UK ministers. However I also - believe it or not - have genuine sympathy for ordinary Scottish Labour Party members, councillors and even MSPs. It's npt nice watchimg your party wrench itself apart in public The sooner the Scottish Labour Party becomes a distinct body, with the leadership located firmly in Scotland, the better. I think Steven Pucell was arguing for that at Labour's Conference the other week. If their members are wise they will listen to him. I don't suppose any Labour members or supporters will be interested in advice from a nat but there you go.
126

MacNab,

06/04/2008 10:51:36
Salmond 'hoodwinking Scots' says Browne. Give me a break! Browne and his cohorts hoodwinked the whole of Britain. WMD's anyone?
127

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 10:52:19
135 (Again) Ciderman

Yes, it means seats.

YouGov poll was conducted from 2-4 April, sample 1,070

* Scottish Parliament constituency vote (change since 2007 in brackets)
SNP: 40% (+7)
Lab: 32% (-)
Con: 12% (-5)
Lib: 13% (-3)
Oth: 4%

* Scottish Parliament list vote (change since 2007 in brackets)
SNP: 33% (+2)
Lab: 30% (+1)
Con: 13% (-1)
Lib: 12% (+1)
Oth: 13%

* Holyrood seats projection:
SNP: 49 (+2)
Lab: 44 (-2)
Con: 15 (-2)
Lib: 15 (-1)
Oth: 6 (+3)

128

Miss H,

06/04/2008 10:54:03
134 You are just making things up there. Constantly repeating something will not make it true.

129

Buspass,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 10:54:39
Igore the rantings of this idiot Browne. The greatest Toom Tabard since John Baliol.
130

Alfred E. Neuman,

06/04/2008 10:56:56
147 Miss H

"She said." Safe in the knowledge she has not actually rebuked the comment or disproven it.
131

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06/04/2008 10:56:57
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132

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 10:59:03
145. Rubbish., We unionists are tired of these SNP smears. There clearly were WMD in Iraq, ready at 45 minutes notice, they however were highly mobile and very small, based on nano-technology. That the Nats show no grasp of modern nano technology is of no concern to us unionists.

146. I do not like that poll. Please select a different one with findings more in keeping with Des Browne's comments and re-post. We Unionists will not be hoodwinked.
133

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06/04/2008 10:59:33
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134

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:00:23
150. Well said Ciderman, and if asked the poll the other day showing support at 65% for a referendum is not accurate. Do not get hoodwinked by the SNP and their polls - we will use only polls we like!
135

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/04/2008 11:01:12
The rabid ranting from the failed UK government takes on a more sinsister and threatining tone..

An episode of Desmond's....http://calumcashley.blogspot.com/...

It must crush all hope when you've been drowning for almost a year and your rescuers are Yvette Cooper and Des Browne balancing on what little of your head is above water.


With Yvette Cooper understanding less about Funding the Scottish Parliament, National Assembly for Wales and Northern Ireland Assembly: Statement of Funding Policy (see especially paragraphs 6.3 and 13.2 and paragraphs 7 & 8 of the statement of principles - annexe A) than about buying herself a house, it was left to Desmond to come riding to the rescue with a fascinating article in Scotland on Sunday.


Des has titled his epistle to the nation "A Year of Governing Dangerously" - I do hope that he just doesn't appreciate the possible resonance of such a title rather than being quite that crass.


Mind you, the tone of his 919 words would suggest maybe not. When a politician starts to throw random and unjustifiable insults instead of debating policy you can be sure the unravelling is beginning. Since Dessie is a Minister in Her Majesty's Labour Government you can take it that the same falling apart is infecting the rest of them
Let's see what Des says.
136

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:01:27
152. Clever! I bet Saddam probably moved the WMD he had into the web to hide them. Nice one, that will flummox them!
137

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/04/2008 11:02:51
cont from #154.

He compares the amount of legislation going through the London Parliament with the amount of legislation going through our Edinburgh Parliament like some over-keen competitor in a sports-car measuring competition. Here's an interesting thing, though, he says


"24 of the 26 pieces of legislation in the Queen's Speech impact upon Scotland."


The most interesting part of this isn't apparent until you cast a glance at the Queen's Speech and realise that only 20 pieces of legislation are in it. Surely a chap who holds 2 cabinet jobs should know what was in the Queen's Speech? It is, after all, the basic building block of the Westminster legislative programme.


Is Dessie confused? Well, look at these two statements:

"The UK Government is actively legislating – with the SNP's agreement."

"In the parallel universe that the SNP inhabit, everything the UK Government does is portrayed as either an act of betrayal or interference in Scotland.The SNP choose to use parliamentary time to provide a platform for Alex Salmond to grandstand, to debate issues outwith their responsibility and to promote disagreements with the UK Government, seemingly for the sake of it."

All in the same article! He's not finished at that either:

"A statement of fact that council tax benefit has never been part of the block grant is labelled as meddling."

Can I refer him to the Statement of Principles at the back of the Statement of Funding mentioned above in relation to Yvette Cooper?

This Statement of Principles was written by his good friend Alastair Darling while the Chancellor was Chief Secretary to the Treasury.


Paragraph 7 contains this wonderful line:
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

"provision for Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit which will both come within the Scottish Block for the first time after devolution;"
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

The document was revised
138

JimC,

Kilmarnock 06/04/2008 11:04:28
Having been involved in Politics in Kilmarnock for over 30 years I suppose I know a bit about Des Browne. Prior to his election he was a non entity in Kilmarnock, since his election the position has hardly changed up until his appointment to the Northern Ireland office, then DWP and now the DOD. Recently many have questioned his ability to do both jobs as a Minister and Secretary for Scotland. I note above comments of a part time secretary role, this is not true according to Des. He said on live TV than the only people that suffered were his family and constituents, so a part time MP for Kilmarnock is nearer the truth. He never votes against the government, and as Glen Campbell calls him, Mr. Middle of the road which sums him up nicely. As reported locally the last time he showed any compassion for his fellow Scots was at the count in Kilmarnock at the last election, where he was reportedly seen comforting a well known union official almost reduced to tears on the announcement that they had lost Kilmarnock to the SNP. This might explain the mental state of his mind when he said recently that “Labour governs Scotland” They say the mourning process effects people in different ways, that I can say is true from experience, but 11 months on its time to get a grip Des and move on.
139

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06/04/2008 11:07:53
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140

thinking,

Scotland 06/04/2008 11:08:25
#101
I will ignore your unkind remark about my existance.
I was stating facts, not wishes.
1. You cannot refund something that is not being paid in the first place. If no-one is paying council tax how can you refund it?
2. To gain extra refunds under PAYE would mean a change in the way it is worked out and collected. As the rules are the same for the whole of the UK, how could that be done to benefit just Scotland?
141

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/04/2008 11:08:34
from #156...

The document was revised and reissued in October 2007 and this bit wasn't changed, so we can assume it's still relevant. Our good Des goes on to accuse Scotland's Government of
seeking to contrive a row about access to additional funds they know there is no entitlement to.


That'll be the £400 million or so in Council Tax Benefit (there should, of course, be a balancing adjustment in the Block Grant this year because Scottish benefit payments growth will be outstripped by English ones - paragraph 6.3, first point), the £120 million in prison building payments, perhaps the attendance allowance that was withdrawn when the Scottish Parliament introduced Free Personal Care - that kind of thing.


Have we reached a billion quid yet? Here's the decker for Desmond from paragraph 2.7:


"1. Departmental Expenditure Limits (DELs) set firm, three-year spending limits. Expenditure in DEL is split between those items within the Assigned Budget and those within the non-Assigned Budget. Spending within DEL is generally undifferentiated, as the devolved administrations will have full discretion over their spending priorities; these are ‘Assigned Budget’ items. Changes in provision for these items are determined through the Barnett Formula (see Chapter 4). If spending in DEL, however, is exceptionally ring-fenced and specific to that spending priority, these are known as ‘non-Assigned Budget’ spending items."


That would be the prisons then. London claims the prisons money doesn't count because it came from reserves. Access to the Reserve is only supposed to be provided in exceptional circumstances - did London not plan to build these prisons?
142

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/04/2008 11:10:02
from#160..

Chapter 10 of the funding statement makes it absolutely clear that you can't just take money out of the Reserve because that will open up the DEL again - whether it is the Scottish Government or a Whitehall department, so there's a Barnett consequential to come to Scotland.


Should the London Government continue to insist that the money provided for English prisons comes from the Reserve, and that this will not result in a renegotiation (exceptionally) of the English Justice budget, Scotland gets access to the Reserve for building the prisons we need 10.2:
specifically where:

"1. a United Kingdom department is granted access to the Reserve to enable it to meet exceptional pressures on a spending programme. If a devolved administration has a comparable programme and establishes that it faces similar exceptional pressures, unforeseen at the time spending plans were settled, it will have the opportunity to make its case on access to the Reserve which will be considered."


You would think that if I can find this on the web a Cabinet Minister should be able to ask their Private Office to have it checked out, wouldn't you?

143

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/04/2008 11:11:26
from #160...


Back to Dizzy Dessie. He argues that abolishing Council Tax and introducing LIT instead would make Scotland the highest taxed part of the UK. Erm, no. removing one tax and replacing it with another does not automatically increase the overall tax take (how long has Labour been 'running' the country?) I might be getting old, but I remember a Labour party that once believed in taxation based on the ability to pay - apparently not any more. How much more pain have the poorest in our society to suffer before Labour relents? 12% of Scotland's taxpayers - the poorest 12% - have just seen their income tax bill double thanks to Labour's budget.


Just a couple more points. Early in his homily, Desmond preaches about
"the SNP is the only level of government with any interest in Scotland."


Much as I think that Scotland's Party is the party with Scotland's best interests at heart, our members would never think about the party being a 'level of government' - perhaps that reveals something about the arrogance of the Labour party?


The other thing is Dessie-baby's assertion that the SNP Government is 'beginning to wear thin amongst Scots' - I wonder why opinion polls keep going in the other direction if Des is correct? Perhaps he's just wrong?


I'd just like to apologise to everyone connected with the sitcom Desmonds - the pun was too good to miss, but no-one should be associated with the Labour farce against their will.


I will note, though, that the SNP Scottish Government has now come under attack from 4 Westminster Ministers:

Gordon Brown,

Des Browne,

Yvette Cooper

and David Cairns -

in the past couple of weeks. Is this a tacit admission that Wendy Alexander simply isn't up to it?


As Des Browne signed off, "It's time they got on with governing rather than fostering grievance."

Yup, they get paid enough.

http://calumcashley.blogspot.com/
144

alanh,

ek 06/04/2008 11:12:57
another fair and balanced nu labour party political broadcast as usual.

"Last night, in a further ramping up of the row, UK Government sources declared they will dismiss a request by Swinney to have the funding dispute adjudicated by the Joint Ministerial Committee, a Whitehall forum where issues relating to Britain's devolved regions are discussed. "

so that comitee is NOT there to even look at disputes if westmonster doesnt want it to? Whats it for then and whats the point?

"It is a fact that the council tax benefit is only paid if you receive council tax, just as it is a fact that the sun rises in the east."

It is a fact that ctb is paid for low earners/unwaged/pensioner's share to pay for local services. These people will now pay nothing because this money was included in the budget to work our LIT. All the Scottish govt need to do is change the name to something like local income and council tax then and all of westmonsters "arguments" go up in smoke(as usual)
145

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:13:19
158. Cider "possibility that Saddam Hussein might just have had WMDs" -NO! You are deviating from the script, remember he did have them, and the SNP have hidden them.

Move on, that Nats won't notice. I think we should get back to "shoddy government by the SNP" - do you think we can blame them for Nothern Rock, losing half the populations' personal data and the post office closure programme!

We warned people that the SNP promises to freeze council tax, scrap the graduate endowment, prescription charges, bridge tolls and save A&E departments were rubbish! Look at those chickens coming home to roost now!
146

John S,

06/04/2008 11:13:25
#113:Ciderman 542000 - The Scottish Government could hold an advisory plebiscite (vote) with the support of the Greens and the Scottish Tories on the Lisbon Treaty.
Where would that leave the Westminster Government with part of the UK holding a referendum and having to deny the same to the rest of the UK ?
No more on this subject from me.
147

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06/04/2008 11:16:08
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148

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 11:16:42
All these sad Unionists can smear and insult all they want. Next month after New Labour Sleaze and Corruption get the kicking they are so deserving off, I'll bet their members at Westminster will start squealing, seeing their gravy train going off the rails and get rid of Broon, Broowne, wee Dougie and all the other idiots in government.
Oh yes and where is Red Wendy these days???
I thought she'd have been ranting and raving?? Maybe her London masters told her to keep her mooth shut??
Please tell us!
149

Grahamski,

06/04/2008 11:17:11
125
Wardog,
Your post is a tissue of lies. Pointing out the SNP's policy errors doesn't equate with me celebrating "a Scotland Office Minister threatening to reduce spending in Scotland". It is pathetic to try and insinuate that it does. Furthermore your nasty and snide little xenophopic aside "to increase spending in England" does you no credit at all.
But then again, that is all the SNP have to offer, bitter grievances and thinly-veiled racism. It has been revealing to see the response of the SNP to criticsm of them forcing local authorities to cut jobs and services...they blame Westminster and Labour. Plus ca change, eh?
150

Sally Kent,

06/04/2008 11:18:20
Ciderman 542000

I think the posts are rather amusing.
151

Publius,

Girvan 06/04/2008 11:18:35
#162 Hen 5

You write '12% of Scotland's taxpayers - the poorest 12% - have just seen their income tax bill double thanks to Labour's budget'.

You're right about this but remember that the poorest taxpayers will pay even more under local income tax. You nats are in a glass house with your LIT. You should stop throwing stones about tax.
152

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 11:18:47
#165 John S

Now that sounds like an idea worth pursuing!!!

Wonder what Red Wendy would give you for that idea? 10/10?
153

FrankyB,

Des's backyard 06/04/2008 11:20:39
This article is typical of this rag's reporting standards. Written in the basement with a candle and a quill. I'd be pretty embarrassed to admit to anyone that I was a 'journalist' at the Scotsman. I'm sure the cleaners there would do a better job.

The Scotsman ranks alongside The Daily Record and the Sun. Piffle, piffle, piffle.

Poor, poor, poor.
154

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/04/2008 11:20:57
#159..Do try and keep up, Ieven double spaced it for you to make it easier to understand:

"A statement of fact that council tax benefit has never been part of the block grant is labelled as meddling."

Can I refer him to the Statement of Principles at the back of the Statement of Funding mentioned above in relation to Yvette Cooper?

This Statement of Principles was written by his good friend Alastair Darling while the Chancellor was Chief Secretary to the Treasury.


Paragraph 7 contains this wonderful line:
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

"provision for Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit which will both come within the Scottish Block for the first time after devolution;"
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

The document was revised and reissued in October 2007 and this bit wasn't changed, so we can assume it's still relevant. Our good Des goes on to accuse Scotland's Government of
"seeking to contrive a row about access to additional funds they know there is no entitlement to."






The row is NOT contrived by the SNP it is by Westminster now trying to change the Devolution Settlement, after the ink is dry, what a surprise. "It's ma ba." Playground stuff.







The reason we had the Devolution Settlement was to prevent such "UNINTENTIONAL MISUNDERSTANDINGS," such as we see poor Dessie desperately clinging to.





Must go and see my Granddaughter in Fife.


ALBA GU BRATH.
155

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:21:31
166. Cider " love it, great work. "small, not large" - excellent, just what we should say about them pesky WMD.

Now back to "shoddy government" - it was typical of the SNP to back date the police and NHS pay rises in Scotland while Westminster took the more responsible course of ignoring independent pay review bodies. This is part of the SNP's deliberate policy of improving services - totally transparent and we Westminster loyalists see it for the shoddy stuff it is! At least when we shut all their post offices they will be able to write less letters about saving Scottish regiments and Remploy factories though!
156

Nikostratos,

06/04/2008 11:21:41
HEN BROON 5 from alabania


Not so much a message from a "parallel universe" as a "closed one" full of dark impenetrable matter known as 'Nationalist Dogma"


Albanian au Gareth
157

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06/04/2008 11:23:03
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158

Phil Lawrence,

Tallinn 06/04/2008 11:23:46
"The propaganda exercise to support the myth the SNP is the only level of government with any interest in Scotland is both demonstrably ridiculous..."

I beg your pardon but we are talking about a Labour Party which has so much interest in Scotland that Des Browne holds the position of Scottish Secretary on a part-time basis whilst concentrating on his day-job of Defence Secretary.

This man is so manifestly disingenuous that some of his outbursts defy belief. If he had any integrity at all he would resign his position as Defence Secretary and concentrate on his Scottish post full-time. Maybe then he might be able to make his assertion of some degree of interest in Scotland from Downing Street without this country falling to its knees in uncontrollable tears of laughter.

The really scary part of all this is that Des Browne probably believes his own spin. Now that is just downright tragic.
159

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/04/2008 11:23:57
#170..


You are just wrong, check the IR site,

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/

I will explain later must go.
160

Sally Kent,

06/04/2008 11:24:00
Alabania? Albabania? Alabama?
161

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:25:45
168. Grahamski. Genius, like your work. If some pesky Nat asks why every Labour council and COSLA welcomed the 5% funding increase, just ignore the question. If confronted with Labour Stirling council actually cutting council tax based on the funding deal, say something about Salmond's waistline (see CIderman for tips, he is on great form) and move on. Don't let the Nats pin you down with facts!

Now, lets flummox them some more! Ask them why the 1.4% budget increase for the Scottish government was so generous, then get them to defend the 5% council funding increase (cut!). They will never square that cirlce!
162

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/04/2008 11:26:11
#175. Your posts continue to be devoid of any substance, unlike your cranial cavity which appears to be full of illegal substance, away and lie doon.



ALBA GU BRATH.
163

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:26:41
177. "The really scary part of all this is that Des Browne probably believes his own spin"

LOL - typical NAT naivety.
164

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06/04/2008 11:26:54
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165

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/04/2008 11:27:56
Paragraph 7 contains this wonderful line:
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

"provision for Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit which will both come within the Scottish Block for the first time after devolution;"
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

The document was revised and reissued in October 2007 and this bit wasn't changed, so we can assume it's still relevant. Our good Des goes on to accuse Scotland's Government of
"seeking to contrive a row about access to additional funds they know there is no entitlement to."

























Paragraph 7 contains this wonderful line:
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

"provision for Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit which will both come within the Scottish Block for the first time after devolution;"
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

The document was revised and reissued in October 2007 and this bit wasn't changed, so we can assume it's still relevant. Our good Des goes on to accuse Scotland's Government of
"seeking to contrive a row about access to additional funds they know there is no entitlement to."





























Paragraph 7 contains this wonderful line:
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

"provision for Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit which will both come within the Scottish Block for the first time after devolution;"
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

The document was revised and reissued in October 2007 and this bit wasn't changed, so we can assume it's still relevant. Our good Des goes on to accuse Scotland's Government of
"seeking to contrive a row about access to additional funds they know there is no entitlement to."
166

Gtj,

Dundee 06/04/2008 11:28:25
For all those Onionists who like to sprout about polls and stuff, I could be wrong but I am sure I read that the latest poll confirms that 65% - that's almost two thirds of Scottish people want Independence tommorrow.

What say now Desie Boy.
167

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:29:10
176. Ciderman, great post, great points! The SNP plan for a 2010 referendum in their manifesto was clearly a lie, meaning as it did a referendum in 2007 which they bottled!

If any pesky Nat askes abouts Labour's voting reform referendum (1997), Euro constitional referendum (2005) or Euro (1997) just ignore the questions and attack the SNP's broken promise to freeze council tax!
168

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:29:56
185. That poll is not an official Unionist approved poll. We will not be hoodwinked into discussing it!
169

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 11:32:37
Browne! your comments are the last sting of a dying wasp!
170

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 11:33:43
179 Sally Kent The Riddler

I'm not quite getting it Sally. How about Albamania?
171

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 11:33:51
Hen Broon

A decent forensic analysis of the contemptuous approach taken by the labourtory establishment towards the will of the Scottish electorate.

Let us expose, time after time , the inherently corrupt and sleaze ridden nature of the cringing North Labour Brits, who would hold our country back in the thrall of English imperialism.

172

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 11:34:37
I hear there are street parties in all the deprived areas celebrating the scrapping of the hated 10p tax band. One party goer said "we owe a debt of gratitude to Our Dear Leader, Comrade Broon for scrapping this absurd tax band and allowing us to pay more tax towards his glorious war against the nasty Iraqis. We have to rid the world of these nasty WMD's. I fully understand, that as someone who earns minimum wages, that it is me and people like me who have to pay. We cannot expect the mega rich to pay, because if they did, they might bug6er off back to Monaco. That is why I will always vote New Labour Sleaze and Corruption just like my grandparents always did. They're socialists you know!"
173

eric,

Lothian 06/04/2008 11:34:41
Is he trying to impress his English masters that he is Loyal.Ordinary Folk in England see Scots unionists as beggers with bowl out to London and their taxes.Down south they see you as a Scot Snp Labour whatever ,And if We dont vote ouselves out union ,They will do it for us.Wake up.
174

brownlie,

06/04/2008 11:34:42
158 Ciderman

Quite right, Scrumpy, a recent poll of Iraqis showed that they would prefer to be killed by "smart" bombs than the one in 55 million chance of being killed by Saddam.
175

Brian M,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 11:35:23
re labour viewing Alex Salmond's standing up for Scotland as an emphasis on grievance, the only people with a grievance are the Scottish cabinet ministers and MPs at Westminster who are only thinking of themselves (not Scotland) and know that an independent Scotland would result in Labour being sent to oblivion on both sides of the border
176

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 11:36:20
#176 Ciderman..... You make some good points,but would you think it a good idea for the Scottish people to discuss independence and become politically aware before going to the polls? I would consider it a good move.
177

Nikostratos,

06/04/2008 11:37:27
#181 HEN BROON 5,

Okee Dokee



#187 Union is Best,

What i want to know from you pal is where and how did you get your copy of the 'Good Unionist Handbook'
178

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:38:40
192. Eric, rubbish! It is the SNP who want to continue the begging bowl dependence on Westminster by their indpendence policy! We Unionists want Scotland to stand on her own two dependent feet and ask proudly for Westminster funding!

179

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06/04/2008 11:40:20
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180

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:41:01
196. Niokstratus! Good grief, I am not allowed my own personal copy of the Good Unionist Book! That type of irresponsibility might lead to me reading it all at once with the attendant risk of individual thought and analysis! We will not hoodwinked, you Nat agitator! I get a dailly crib sheet from Jackie Baillie which is more than sufficient to see off you Nats!
181

eric,

06/04/2008 11:42:35
197 ,The feedback to my families English work mates etc ,watching the UK debates on Independence .They all said Scots Labour came across as pathetic begging bowl out as if they didnt want to stand on own 2 feet.and that SNP came across very pro,and Liked the idea of Scotland standing on its own 2 feet.Maybe you missed them.
182

KWC,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 11:43:58
No doubt Mugabe will be following this story as he is also keen to deny the fact that his people, too, have decided that the alternative is better.

I had thought our politicians were maybe a bit above this leve, but Browne and Brown just simply can't accept that they are second rate. Actually, they are third rate. Brown will go down as the most anonymous prime minister in our history, having achieved nothinig. I imagine that he is the Birmingham accent of the political world. Had he actually done nothing things would have worked out better than what he actually did.
183

Brian M,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 11:47:13
"Browne’s attack is expected to infuriate Salmond"

Much to labour's disappointment AS will probably be amused rather than infuriated, particularly as Westminster Labour politicians are playing into his hands every time they open their mouth about Scotland
184

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:47:26
201. Typical Nat nonsense "Brown will go down as the most anonymous prime minister in our history, having achieved nothinig"

And what do you call Iraq, Northern Rock and losing the countrys' data if not achievements?
185

Brian M,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 11:48:44
"Browne’s attack is expected to infuriate Salmond"

Much to labour's disappointment AS will probably be amused rather than infuriated, particularly as Westminster Labour politicians are playing into his hands every time they open their mouth about Scotland
186

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06/04/2008 11:49:08
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187

brownlie,

06/04/2008 11:49:54
176 Ciderman

Quite right, imagine the SNP being so deluded that they give the Scottish people the opportunity to make any contribution to any future direction for Scotland. They would be much better following our lead and ignoring the wishes, hopes and aspirations of a nation until just before elections. It has worked for us for years because we know best.
188

Brian M,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 11:50:00
any comments heard from Red Wendy, or has she been told to keep quiet by her London bosses
189

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 11:51:47
Would any of the Unionist posters here be able to tell me how our country's investment in Northern Rock is doing? Could you remind me how much we have invested to date and what is the projected return??
And while we're on the subject of the folding stuff, how much has been wasted and still to be wasted on ID cards. There are people here who have shut down their heating(and it's blo0dy cold!) as they are worried they can't afford their identity cards?? They do understand that if their socialist government tells them its for their own good then it must be!!
190

John S,

06/04/2008 11:53:00
#176:Ciderman 542000 - I feel it would be daft for the SNP to try and hold a independence referendum before the next UK GE which has to be held before 3 June 2010.
191

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:54:05
205. Cider, great post, magisterial, and good to see you back on track after (if I may say so as an old Unionist hand) getting slightly hoodwinked by the Nats on WMD.

Love the "services axed wholesale" - the Nats can never explain that in the context of increasing funding to councils by 5%! And if asked why Labour councils all back the deal, the Nats will never be able to explain that either - we have outmanoeuvred them by backing the deal and now saying it is cutting services! We should probably blame the 4000 post office closures and sackings at Remploy on the SNP funding deal too!

Love your spin of the LIT as a new tax imposition - makes it sound like it comes on top of the council tax as well! Just wait till the Scots have to pay the LIT, council tax and the £5000 SNP tax bill! Triple Whammy!
192

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 11:55:09
208. £110 billion invested and not a whiff a repayment plan! Thanks for asking! This is sound government, not the shoddy government of the SNP!
193

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06/04/2008 11:56:04
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Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:00:37
213. Cider, great post! Indeed, it is total rubbish to blame Gordon Brown for closing 4000 post offices and sacking 10,000 disabled workers, as it is well known that Brown does not work in a post office or a Remploy factory! And indeed, Brown does not work at Northern Rock, so had no control over the UK government investing £110 billion in it - lets hear no more rubbish from the Nats that Brown had any responsibility for that! He is PM, not CEO of Northern Rock!

Love the "debacle" of LIT (is it in place yet, or will we just say it is a debacle anyway?) - just like their impossible council tax freeze!
195

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 12:00:52
Ciderman

Could you help me with some figures please??
How much have we spent, as a socialist country, on the war in Iraq? You don't have to be accurate - the nearest billion will do.( it's for my Open University course).
If you can't manage that a figure based on income tax would be fine (ie 3p in the £)
196

Angus Ogg,

06/04/2008 12:01:54
#66 Ken Mac,

Thanks for that.

I already lent my vote to the SNP for 2003 and 2007 and it doesn't appear to be wanting to go home to Labour any time soon if this is the best Des has to offer.

Better than that, in Argyll, we put out 3,500 newsletters, ostensibly pointing out the flaws in our hopeless LibDem MSP George Lyon.

The next run of 3,500 newsletters ended up firmly supporting Jim Mather as a man with ideas, endeavour, and a breath of fresh air compared to our stale Lyon.

In some small way a, fairly heavy effort got rid of George Lyon which was a blessed relief. Jim Mather is certainly setting the heather alight in a way George never managed. As an added bonus Jim Mather was one of the last MSP's to be elected for the SNP and certainly helped tip the balance. Not only did George Lyon go, but so did poor old Jack McConnell !!!

Who said people power doesn't work :@)

Or is it just a case of the law of unintended consequences?
197

Brian M,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 12:02:12
how many millions of pounds are to be diverted from Scotland to the London Olympics?

Union dividend in action.
198

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/04/2008 12:02:20
158 - Diamond White Nu Lab !
199

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06/04/2008 12:02:37
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Bermuda Bie,

Bermuda 06/04/2008 12:02:54
Good on yer Shamuss and quite right. Unionists like us are quiet and many and the rise of Chubby Cheeks and the subsequent debacle in Scotland will bring many real people back from the lost cause that is Lib Dem to either Labour or Conservatives and the Gnats will be a think of the past again.

Let's face it the Conservatives will be back in Government after the next General Election.
201

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/04/2008 12:03:44
212 - not the most witty of postings today.
202

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:04:11
215. First, typical Nat spin. We have not "spent" £8 billion in Iraq, we have invested £8 billion there. It bears no relation to income tax, as only SNP spending plans impact taxation. Similarly the £35 billion on Trident is a socialist priority, and an investment item, costing less in real absolute and seasonally adjusted terms than the SNP's prescription charge reduction which is impossible and won't happen anyway.

203

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06/04/2008 12:06:13
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brownlie,

06/04/2008 12:07:07
205 Ciderman

You are coming on message with reference to "oily" and "fat" as we do not have anyone like that in union circles (Gordon Brewer is not one of us) and everyone in Scotland knows that obesity equates to lack of intelligence which is why we are all sylph-like.

I would be more careful with reference to Brian Souter as the Nats might ask who set up the conditions that allows rich men to pay little or no tax. Other than that I salute your excellent posts.
205

Calum Crubag,

Dùn Eideann 06/04/2008 12:07:41
#1- Aonghas Og a bhalaich! It's true, Labour are continuing the campaign of 'fear' against SNP and the idea of an independent nation which backfired last May. They have nothing positive to offer - after all they had 10 years in both Westminster and Holyrood and have little to show for it but mountains of sleaze and lies.

Des Browne looks and sounds like a bitter auld woman. Adios Labour.
206

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 12:08:02
205 Ciderman

There were 2000 people who marched in Aberdeen yesterday and only 150 stayed for the speeches. The main issues apart from the obvious cuts were the funding formula from the Scottish Government AND the previous Scottish Executive as well as financial mis-management stretching back more than five years. The current administration is the only one in recent times who have vowed to sort this financial mess out. Previous administrations sold off capital to pay for vital services, i.e. they were living beyond their means.

Again your generalisations, used for point-scoring, belie the true facts.
207

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:08:18
223. Quite right! Nations like Iraq who have acquired WMD are a threat at 45 minute imminence (so by my calculations the SNP need a deterrent in place by 12.55pm today).

(Cider - word from the wise, I think WMD is not we Unionist's strong suit, I thought the LIT stuff was going better)?
208

Calum Crubag,

06/04/2008 12:09:07
#223 - Ciderman. Which nations with WMDs want to attack Scotland? And why is your question not relevant to Norway, Iceland, Ireland or Belgium?
209

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/04/2008 12:09:12
220 - Call me Dave will be next PM, unless he makes a serious b*lls-up, but Tories in power at Holyrood ? As much chance that happening as that of herz winnin the Champions' League !
210

Alfred E. Neuman,

06/04/2008 12:10:04
217 Brian M

Thanks for taking time out of your busy life to spam this thread with irrelant and glib soundbytes.

Are you that SNP idiot that thinks writing "SNP SNP SNP SNP SNP SNP = GOOD" is campaigning? Your comments are just a relevant, topical and insightful.
211

Accommodation Provider,

Pitlochry 06/04/2008 12:10:14
Des Brown cannot be trusted. I gave him clear evidence of wrongdoing by members of of his department. He brushed the matter aside and refused to investigate the matter. A very weak man!
212

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:10:37
228. Typical Nat rubbish. We all know that there is a substantial terrorist threat. Sea launched Trident nuclear war-heads are the best counter-measure against incidents such as the Glasgow Airport attack.
213

subrosa,

06/04/2008 12:11:48
# 114 - The SNP have been doing his head in for 11 months no doubt,

Marvellous!
214

The Tam ,

Puerto Bella 06/04/2008 12:12:01
This man is far too lightweight for such an important portfolio.

He has displayed lack of judgement on a number of occassions and tried to suppress information. He made a calamitous mistake allowing the Iran sailors to sell their stories.

This is not surprising for someone who was not considered pratner material at Ross Harper and Murphy and who had to set up his own small firm which was really dominated by respected solicitor Ian McCluskey.

He was also a very inneffectual advocate.

His Kilmarnock and Loudon is the third on the SNP's target seats and I expect he will be in for a huge fight to hold on to his seat.

He is running scared.
215

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/04/2008 12:12:32
Iraqi WMDs, as real as Wendy's socialist credentials.
216

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 12:12:53
Ciderman

Sorry to keep bothering you but as the most literate poster on this site could you tell me how much money has been raised illegally by New Labour Sleaze and Corruption (ie cash for honours, leadership campaigns etc).
217

Calum Crubag,

06/04/2008 12:13:55
Acutally, Ciderman at #223 makes a good point. 'Protecting' against 'nations with WMDs' it VERY expensive which is probably why most small nations take a progressive non-agressive stance in world affairs. When was the last time Sweden attacked another nation? Are Portugal less worried by Iran than Brown or Bush? Or is it that the right-wing religous nutters in charge of UK/US see some worth is spending billions to subdue third-world nations. Oil? Faith?

If tyranny, oppression and WMDs were reasonable grounds for attacking another nation then why is Brown happy to entertain China, rather than attacking it?
218

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/04/2008 12:14:00
232 - Trident to be launched against Pollokshields ? ! : )
219

,

06/04/2008 12:16:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
220

brownlie,

06/04/2008 12:17:02
228 Calum Crubag

Feasgar math, a Chalum, Where will you crubagan go when we privatise Scottish marine resources
221

Calum Crubag,

06/04/2008 12:17:06
#232 - Ok, i give in. But if we want to spend billions on Trident, then at least the potention 'shoe bombers' and human torches who want to attack our airports should know that if they 'mess' then we have Trident up our sleeve to deal with them. These 'terrorists' who seem to make up the biggest threat to us these days seem blissfully unaware that our airports and train stations are protected by expensive nuke subs.
222

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 12:18:34
#223 Ciderman

Thank you for your swift reply.
In an independent Scotland, anyone threatening our borders and sovereignty would be politely but firmly warned that if they didn't cease forthwith Red Wendy would be sent as our negotiator. That should deter any warmongering

223

Calum Crubag,

Dùn Eideann 06/04/2008 12:19:06
#240, chan mi agad a dhuine dhuinn. Co tha gu bhith a' cur ar goireasan-mara ann an làmhan priobhaideach? Agus, am bi e gu diofar dha crubag? An dochas gun cluinn mi tuilleadh bhuat air a' chuis seo.

Feasgar math dhut.
224

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 12:19:50
Ciderman

Just for your info. I am me and me only. Anyone else must be somebody else other than me. That clear enough for you??
225

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:20:31
239. Cider - brilliant: 5% council funding increase = CUT. 1.4% Scottish government increase = Massive Increase. Lets see the Nats spin their way out of that! And the genius of having every Labour council and COSLA welcome the deal (Stephen Purcell, Labour leader, Glagow: "The SNP funding deal was too good to refuse") and then us now attacking it is too sweet!
226

Calum Crubag,

06/04/2008 12:20:39
#232- Yeah, And Trident against the neds.
227

PM Burton,

Dunfermline 06/04/2008 12:20:45
We pay the Scottish Executive to perform the duties required of the devolved government, not push their party political agenda. A one seat majority does not give the SNP a mandate to push for independence. I would like to see the SNP prove that they have the ability to govern a devolved parliament for at least two terms before they push for independence. Their track record so far is not looking good as they seem more interested in promoting independence and rubbishing Westminster than running a devolved government.

And let us not forget that once we do have independence there will be (by definition of the term 'independence') no handouts from Westminster and all income will need to be self generated. Yes, we have oil but that is not an inexhaustible supply. The end result: higher taxes.

We cannot afford to let the SNP gamble on all our financial security without first proving themselves.
228

,

06/04/2008 12:20:51
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229

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:21:23
244. Typical Nat rubbish. Cider is correct - you, Brownlie, ALan, Ayrshire and I forget the other ones he said are all me.
230

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 12:21:35
Wardog no 6 has it in 3: Des is rattled.

Rattled, desperate, frustrated, afraid, confused....nothing to do with the SNP, he can't find his P45.

It used to be so much easier to hoodwink the Scots.

But despite 10 months of Unionist propaganda the poor fools still think they are getting a better deal from the SNP than from Labour. The more they rant and rave the more ridiculous Labour looks.

The evidence to the contrary is too obvious see thus the terrific showing of the SNP in the polls.

231

Calum Crubag,

06/04/2008 12:22:06
I like Dismal Brownie's use of 'shoddy'. He's a lyrical genius. Nu Labour really are cool and hip. Dings can only git bitter...
232

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 06/04/2008 12:22:59
How like Des and his desperadoes to want things both ways, yes a body is set up to decide on disputes between Edinburgh and Westminster, but Westminster will decide just what the group decides upon.

Democracy in action unionist style!

You and the resy of the unionists on here have just delivered some more votes to the SNP. Keep up the good work Des and Co
233

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:23:51
248. Cider, great post - dirty bomb, individual terrorists. Currently Trident missiles could be used against them (except in the London underground as the missiles couldn't fly down the escalors) in place of policing, conventional army and civil defence. An independent Scotland would have no nuclear missiles, so would have to deal with suicide bombers without thermonuclear missile strikes! You've got them!
234

alanh,

06/04/2008 12:25:42
#239 ciderman.

what cuts were there in the amount given to aberdeenshire council? Was it not reported that ALL councils got an increase above inflation and enough to cover an inflationary rise in the frozen council tax?

Or is it just a game of repeat the lie often enough and it becomes fact for you?
235

Publius,

Girvan 06/04/2008 12:26:11
#214 Don't know about debacle of local income tax ... but low paid workers who will be on 20 pence in the £ will be on 23 pence in the £ when LIT comes in. For someone on 12k a year that's roughly £190 a year. For someone on 18k it's roughly £370 a year.
The main people affected will be young manual and semi-manual workers living with their parent(s). Hairdressers, shop assistants, clerical workers, young workers in garages etc.
Their parents may not be paying council tax any more but I can't see the young people liking the change. It reminds me of the poll tax...
236

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 06/04/2008 12:26:21
239 - where did he cut the budget?

247 - They've done more in 11 months than Labour did in 11 years.

237

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 12:26:28
Ciderman

Could you help me out with a dilemma please?

Recently our nasty Scottish SNP government cut the cost of prescription drugs to £5.
New Labour Sleaze and Corruption objected? Am I getting muddled up.
I thought NLS&C were socialists like Red Wendy said. Could you advise me who should get my vote??
238

The Tam ,

Puerto Bella 06/04/2008 12:27:59
Cider boy displays a complete lack of understanding.

The report from Audit Scotland clearly states the last administration in Aberdeen overspent.

The Council's own financial returns (Provisional Outturn/Budget Estimate) state that the Council has spent almost £50 million more than they had budgeted to spend in the period 2002-07. This has resulted in the Council's general revenue fund balances being reduced from a surplus of £23.5 million on 1st April 2003 to a deficit of £4.4 million on 1st April 2007. This confirms that the previous administrations have indeed been spending much more in-year than was budgeted for and that is a situation that is clearly not sustainable.
239

Ken S.,

Reading 06/04/2008 12:28:10
Yet, despite all this, too many in Scotland and the rest of the DisUnited Kingdom will still vote Labour at the next General Election.

Whichever side of the Independence v Union debate people stand, anyone who still thinks that voting Labour is the answer obviously doesn't understand the question!

Irrespective of political flavour, on a personal basis Alex Salmond is far superior to most/all other UK politicians.
240

weh,

06/04/2008 12:28:21
This is WONDERFUL stuff!

It shows how desperate the numpty party has become!

I can reveal that they are now w....ing themselves at the results of their own private polling in Scotland, and the fact that they will be UNEMPLOYABLE after the next elections!
Hahhahahahahaha!

Couldn't happen to nicer people!!

Hahahahahaha!
241

,

06/04/2008 12:28:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
242

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:30:31
258. Typical Nat rubbish. Just because the last administration in Aberdeen over-spent by £50 million, this does not mean this contributes to the council's current financial situation! If things were that simple the UK wouldn't have a £70 billion deficit this year!
243

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:32:08
261. Cider - like it! Doom and scares! That will get their attention. Lets work that one up more - an independent Scotland will be a command economy gulag work camp, like Albania but with worse weather! That will show them Nats!
244

Edward,

06/04/2008 12:33:11
its Des Browne and the rest of the Westminster Scottish Labour MP's who are in another world
Des is scared that he will loose his seat at the next election and will loose his perks
Such as the one that Tony Blair pulled off, by having his TV licence paid by the taxpayer or the £ 40 grand paid by the taxpayer towards Blair's second home
Yep is the gravy train life in Westminster and Des Browne will do everything to save it
245

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 12:33:29
Ciderman 239

You are at it again.

Swinney didn't cut the budget. He agreed with COSLA to propose a freeze on Council Tax increases, but that monies would be forthcoming to make up for the shortfall. Aberdeen got a good proportion of that money, but would still have had to increase Band D council tax by £307 per annum to cover the £27 million deficit as a result of previous mis-management.

Audit Scotland will, I'm sure, confirm this.

As usual, It seems that you are BIG on rhetoric, SMALL on detail.
246

,

06/04/2008 12:34:16
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247

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 12:34:52
Ciderman

With regard to your question about defending North Britain against attack. We have here a weapon of terrifying power and destruction being developed as we speak at Aldermaston and

Intercontinental Ballistic Pies.

These IBP's have unlimited range, can fly down escalators (ideal for the London Underground), will strike fear into the hearts of everyone threatened by them. They are a wee bitty cheaper than Trident but far more effective. These IBP's will change the face of warfare for ever!!
248

Phil Lawrence,

Tallinn 06/04/2008 12:36:27
#182 Typical Lab naivety - never mind the quality, feel the width!

Browne is condemned by his own rhetoric. Like the rest of Scottish Labour the man is running scared of a functioning and, dare I say it, popular administration in Edinburgh. Labour lost the election last year by accentuating the negative and seem to have learned not one thing in the intervening period.

It's a good day to be alive when we see Scottish Labour reduced to this sort of trash! Every diatribe such as the one above costs Labour much-needed votes because intelligent individuals can see right through this man's manipulations. Keep it up Des - it's all grist to the SNP's mill!
249

,

06/04/2008 12:36:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
250

brownlie,

06/04/2008 12:38:01
243 Calum

Tha piasan mor an na h'lamhan mar tha, agus tha a Phairleamaid a bruithean air moran a bheir seacadh airson "wave/wind farms" mar a tha piosan de Bharvais air son tuathanach gaoithe.
251

Angus Ogg,

06/04/2008 12:39:29
#225

Ciamar a tha thu Calum,

Lorg mi Des Brown ghrannda fo chloich !

Tapadh leibh

Angus
252

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 12:41:57
270

Yes, like the Peterhead Carbon Capture plan that was taken out of Scotland's hands by Westminster, and the biggest world prize ever for the best idea to kickstart the marine renewables industry in Scotland.
253

Edward,

06/04/2008 12:46:20
Gordon Brown was last night facing an unprecedented Labour revolt over controversial tax rises as doubts about his leadership continued to grow.
In a series of blows to the Prime Minister, it was revealed that:
• Government minister Lord Davies has joined critics of Mr Brown's decision to scrap the 10p starting rate of income tax.
• The Labour-dominated Commons Treasury Committee will tomorrow condemn the plan as an outrageous attack on the poor.
• Mr Brown was told by a Labour MP that "people don't know who you are".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=557480&in_page_id=1770&ct=5
254

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:46:27
270. Cider, OK, lets try that one for a while. But, word from the wise, given the smear, fear doom stuff didn't work last year, what makes you think it will work for us know? Should we step it up, and make the stories more frightening?
255

,

06/04/2008 12:49:05
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256

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:50:34
276. Nice one! Good thing the UK government doesn't spend other people's money, and that Brown never announces anything when visiting Iraq!
257

brownlie,

06/04/2008 12:51:11
Ciderman,

With your knowledge of LIT etc can you help us unionistas out with a small problem and this comes right from the top. Under the SNP's LIT plans will be have to pay our dear Leaders LIT in the same way as we are paying his CT at the moment and how do we disguise, sorry, hide that fact? - even Jackie could not give me any guidance
258

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 12:53:11
Ciderman

I need to find out the actual amount Comrade Broon pinched from the pension funds of our well off socialists. Any ideas??
259

,

06/04/2008 12:54:02
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Reason:
260

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 12:54:20
276 Ciderman

Probably because it's a world prize, and most likely because much of the world's recent industrial innovation has come out of the US. Simple really. No conspiracy theory.

Anyway, do you think leading the way in marine renewables is a good idea or not?
261

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:57:03
278. Brownlie. Typical Nat rubbish. Of cuurse paying for prominent Scottish/London politicians' TV license and council tax for their homes in Scotland is essential. The TV license allows them to watch TV and find out what is happening in Scotland - combined with paying their Scottish council tax for them means that they never actually have to sully themselves by going to Scotland, which is under the control of a feral and savage SNP administration and is not safe from attack by countries armed with WMD.
262

Edward,

06/04/2008 12:57:54
‘Blobby’ Gordon Brown gets gaffe aide'
(http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3690033.ece)
ON the day Gordon Brown turned orange it emerged that he has hired a former BBC producer to put an end to the visual gaffes that have dogged his time as prime minister. Nicola Burdett, 35, has been told to stop the embarrassing photographs and television foot-age that risk turning Brown into a figure of fun. The appointment has not come a moment too soon. Yesterday the prime minister was pictured at a summit of world leaders in Hertfordshire with a bright orange blob of make-up on his forehead.
Brown’s aides have made a virtue of his “spin-free” approach, but the first sign of trouble came at the launch of his leadership campaign when his face was obscured by an Autocue. Last month’s visit by Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, also prompted awkward scenes
A No 10 source said: “We recognise there is a need to work more closely with visual media.”
263

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 12:58:03
Ciderman

Was the excellent price Comrade Broon received from the prudent sale of our gold reserves used to equip our well equipped troops fighting against the Iraqi WMD's in downtown Baghdad.
264

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 12:58:10
280. Cider, nice one. Every Labour council welcoming teh SNP 5% funding increase and that Purcell chap in Glasgow saying it was too good to turn down certainly exposes the SNP cuts for what they are! We have out-foxed them!
265

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 13:03:11
Ciderman

Do you think more postal voting should be encouraged. It seemed to work very well in Birmingham (which the judge described as being run like a banana republic). This would reduce the likelihood of another shambles like the Holyrood elections and ensure New Labour Sleaze and Corruption will win every election held.
266

democracy,

Galashiels 06/04/2008 13:03:33
#282 Why don't you tell that to all the other smaller countries of the world and while you are at it, tell them which countries will take them on and protect them militarily and economically, you unionist clown!!!
267

Spastics Society,

06/04/2008 13:05:40
Hi,

I was just wondering if anyone here has come across a contributor called kimba? We lent her one of our laptop computers, so she could learn to integrate herself into the community, but she has apparently been abusing this privelidge. She has done a runner with our machine and has been posting drivel that makes us ashamed. We all feel more stupid for having read it. If you find her, please tell her we are on to her.

Thank you.
268

Boab,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 13:07:04
#285 Union : did you read the cover of the Herald this morning? Scotland will have Europe's lowest life expectancy within 10 years.

We desperately need to keep the Union - only Westminster can save Scotland from this fate. Possibly by making some fair and sensible decisions about our remaining oil reserves.
269

Anne, Glasgow,

06/04/2008 13:08:06
Des should learn a thing or two from Harriet Harman in her approach to Scotland. She was formidable. Will say no more just in case he reads this. Des, Gordon and 'where is wee Dougie these days' are lost when it comes to the New Scotland.
270

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 13:08:20
287 democracy

Union is Best is a Nat with a liking for irony. A bit of fun. Harmless really.
271

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 13:11:01
289 Boab

I take it the lower life expectancy trend started in May 2007.
272

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 13:11:06
287. Typical SNP rubbish. Scotland is unique in the world in being a target for countries armed with WMD. If small countries were not actually threatened by other countries with WMD, then there would be lots of small independent countries. The fact there are almost no small independent countries shows that tehy are in fact usually destroyed by other big countries with WMD. What compounds Scotland's situation is that it may well be destroyed, as Ciderman has pointed out, by a dirty bomb. Dirty bombs would have little impact on say Belgium or Norway, but would wipe Scotland off the map. The only way to gaurd Scotland against terrorism is to remain part of the Uk as suicide bombers cannot enter the UK due to Trident Nuclear missiles.
273

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 13:12:02
292. Typical SNP smear. What next - will you try to tell us that the Labour chair of COSLA and Labour leader of Glasgow Council welcomed the SNP funding deal?
274

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 13:14:11
290 - Cider, don't answer that. It is an SNP trick. We unionists will not be drawn into detailing any credible scenario for our threats and scare stories. That is a slippery slope, at the bottom of which lies substantiation, evidence and credible thought. And we all know where they lead.
275

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 13:14:22
391 Anne

But what has Harriet to do with Scotland? She was patronising.

It felt like she had come from the capital of the empire to sort out the natives. Hardly inspiring.
276

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 13:17:51
Ciderman

Do you, as a renowned economist, consider the money spent on the Millennium Dome as prudent expenditure? Will the 2012 Olympics be a similar shining example of caring for the most deprived areas of Great Britain???
Do let us know
277

democracy,

Galashiels 06/04/2008 13:20:45
Des "part-timer,head up his own ass" Browne, and David "parochial,mcchattering" Cairns, thankfully will be total goners soon along with all the other Westminster's 'New Labour sycophants' and will be interesting to see what they try and do with their toady little careers when they realise that neither England OR Scotland welcome them!!!
278

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 13:24:23
Ciderman

Will you be going to Euro 2008 with Our Dear Leader supporting our beloved Engerland at the festival of Football???
279

bumpkin,

06/04/2008 13:31:56
Just keep digging holes des, you,re the best advert ever for the snp.
280

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 13:34:50
300

I hate to say this Jimmy, but England are not going to Euro 2008.

If you remember back to the final qualifying match last year, Croatia beat them at home and Italy beat Scotland on the same night to go through. I remember it well because most of Scotland's previous matches had been screened live on BBC. That night, their most important game was dropped by our great television service in favour of the England game.
281

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 13:39:48
302
Says it all really......lies, grievances and small-minded spite, welcome to the world of nationalism...
282

eric,

06/04/2008 13:43:04
Football started in Scotland over 200 yrs before The English fa was set up,Its coming home! Snigger.
283

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 13:43:16
What lies? What spite?

What's your point Grahamski? As usual, you don't have one.

(Unionist Agent Provocateur General)
284

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 13:43:42
303. Grahamski, well said! Complaining about "service cuts" is the preserve of Unionists and is not complaining or having grievances! The BBC has no business showing Scotland matches, as most Scottish politicians in London are using taxpayers money to pay for their license fees anyway!
285

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 13:44:20
305. Grahamski is too wiley to be tricked by the likes of you into having a point!
286

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 13:46:34
Andrew BOD, Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 13:34:50

I'm devastated. I'll just have to spend the summer supporting Engerland's world tennis champion Andrew Murray
287

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 13:51:34
Andrew,
The BBC 'dropped' the Scotland game? Is that true? You claim the BBC had the Scotland game but dropped it in favour of the England game? The BBC had it? Andrew that's just not true. That's what I mean about lying.
The grievances and small-minded spite are self-evident.
288

brownlie,

06/04/2008 13:52:10
303 Grahamski

Spot on, pal, Des could not have put it better himself.
289

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 13:53:22
Now that it has been shown to the world, that the 'sub-prime credit crisis', is indeed Alex Salmond and John Swinney's fault, we should all make sure that they are extradited to the Hague to stand trial for their war crimes against New Labour Sleaze and Corruption and the downtrodden socialists of the world. My house is now only worth £15.75p because of their criminality!!
290

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 13:53:29
309. Grahamski - nailed him! The BBC "had" the Scotland game in only the way that Iraq "had" WMDs"!
291

Calum10,

06/04/2008 13:56:07
Another day another personal attack on Alex Salmond by Unionists and the Unionist media.

These attacks are more shrill, more vehement. More so since the First Minister is in America.

Attacking the man on this basis is a losing strategy, because the Unionists haven't got one single person of substance nor of character to compare against Wee Eck. There's no one in the Labour party;

George Foulkes - yeah right.
David Cairns - yeah right.
Des Browne - yeah right.
Alistair Darling - yeah right.
Douglas Alexander - yeah right.
Wendy Alexander - yeah right.
Gordon Brown - yeah right.

No one in the Tories nor the Lib-Dems.

Also now who believes word that political journalists and pundits have to say at BBC Scotland, The Hootsmon, Labour Herald, The Daily Retard and the Scottish Scum. They all have form in personalised attacks on Alex Salmond.

292

Grahamski,

06/04/2008 14:00:13
309
Silly boy, silly point. Try and wriggle out of the bare-faced lies of nationalist posters. Andrew claimed that the BBC screened most of the previous Scotland matches live, why then did Mr Salmond complain that Scotland's home games in the Euro 2008 qualifiers were only broadcast live on subscription channel Sky Sports after a deal was done with the SFA?
293

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 14:00:20
309 Grahamski

Are you telling me it would not have been screened if the England game had not been on? Of course it would. This was the Scotland game with the most interest for years. That ain't no lie.

The Licence Fee is a compulsory tax to provide a service to all countries within the UK. That is a justified grievance. There is no spite involved.

Stop twisting it.
294

KeithD,

Fife 06/04/2008 14:02:27
Not sure where this guy Browne is coming from about Mr Salmond hoodwinking Scots.Most of the people who actually live here are very happy with Mr Salmond and the job he and the SNP have done so far.Mr Browne please along with the few hundred unionist fans at the recent Scotland game do not try to run down my country which will only grow in confidence and stature as long as the SNP are in control.
295

brownlie,

06/04/2008 14:03:28
311 Jimmy

Higher council tax banding for you, my lad, we unionists did warn you about voting in the Nats.
296

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 14:05:13
314. Grahamski, good one, but (word from the wise) bit of a black eye ridiculing your own post in that way.
297

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 14:05:37
Grahamski

What do you think of the article above. Several Unionistas have distanced themselves from his comments as being out of touch and lacking credibility. Are you one of those or are you a Browne drone?
298

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 14:08:51
315
You claimed that the BBC had screened most of the previous Scotland games then dropped the most important one in favour of the England game. That is a lie. The BBC couldn't screen ANY of the previous Scotland games. The SFA did a deal with SKY to broadcast all Scotland's home games in the qualifiers exclusively.
Why let the truth get in the way, eh?
299

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 14:15:50
321. Might beggar your belief, but Grahamski and I believe Iraq had WMD so our belief is obviously alot bigger than yours! And as for the BBC showing Scotland matches, and they all being on Sky, that juest disproves Salmond's point that perhaps the BBC should show more!
300

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 14:16:34
321
The SFA sold the exclusive broadcasting rights for the Scotland Euro 2008 qualifying matches to BSKYB. The BBC could not show the match because the SFA had sold out to Mr Murdoch.
The fact that you cannot understand the relationship between sport and broadcasters beggars belief. The fact that you attempt to characterise that ignorance as some kind of attack on Scotland is typical.
301

brownlie,

06/04/2008 14:18:47
Anent the great football controversy - in the interests of national security, commercial confidence etc etc in future the BBC will only screen games that England win - what a boost that will be for the whole nation and Labour will be elected unopposed. Hoorah!!!!!
302

KeithD,

Fife 06/04/2008 14:21:10
Just a question to all the unionists out there,please try and be accurate with your answers.I am trying to understand why you have a dislike to the concept of being an independant country.

Question: If you knew that Scotland if independant, would be one of the richest country's in Europe and that you would be better off regarding money and overall well being,would you vote for independence or would you keep the status quo?

Just curious of what my fellow Scots views are!

303

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 14:21:27

Mini-Me Browne - he's like that man in the science fiction movie who is first to see the alien!

"You've got to believe me! They plan war and destruction to take over the earth! Kill them now, before it is too late!!"



304

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 14:24:25
324
There's no controversy. Another nationalist poster was caught out peddling lies to support their spiteful and grievance-fuelled agenda. Again your snide wee xenophobia and thinly-veiled racism does you no credit.
305

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 14:27:44
325
Oh good question! Here's one for you: if you realised that the SNP was a haven for swivel-eyed bigots and closet racists would still support it?
Just curious of what my fellow Scots views are!
306

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 14:29:51
328. Grahamski - great post! Don't get tricked into answering questions on here - that would lead to discussion (and we all know where that leads)! Just post a question in reply!
307

craigy,

south lanarkshire 06/04/2008 14:32:14
Labour MP's / MSP's.....
Turkeys voting for Xmas!
308

Hamish Scott,

06/04/2008 14:32:56
Grahamski

The BBC were preferred to outbid Sky for the England games but not for the Scotland games - a clear case of bias in favour of England by the BBC. That is bad enough, but when people like you try to defend such behaviour - that is pathetic servility to your masters.
309

brownlie,

06/04/2008 14:33:05
325 Keith D

We unionists have no interest in what your fellow Scots' views are. Why should we when they'll vote for us anyway.
310

zigzag,

Canada 06/04/2008 14:33:21
Must beGround Hog Day for Des Brown. Comes out of his hole and spreads that thing called S h 1 t e.

Must get it from his Big Brother Gordon.
311

KeithD,

Fife 06/04/2008 14:34:22
328
Yeh good mature answer mate!!

Anyway apart from the union jack lover,is there anyone out there with a sensible answer?
312

Richard,

west lothian 06/04/2008 14:35:10
So Grahamski,Falkirk,

Is there any "swivel-eyed bigots and closet racists" in unionism's ranks?
313

Christina, Aberdeen,

06/04/2008 14:35:22
You can see why Des Browne is worried. If today's opinion polls are correct, he could be looking for a new job after the next election.
314

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 14:36:31
332. Well said!
315

Christina, Aberdeen,

06/04/2008 14:37:24
I find it difficult to believe that a cabinet minister could lose control this badly. Labour must really be worried.
316

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 14:38:05
331
Hamish, I merely point out that peddling lies seems to be something of a lief motif for nationalist posters. Something to do with their vicious, petty and conspiracy theory-based idea of Scotland perhaps? Whatever it is, I do wish they would stop...
317

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 14:40:05
#331 England is a bigger country and has more chance of winning things. You might not like that but it is the truth. That is why the BBC bought the rights to their matches and not Scotlands.

#328 It is swivel eyed anti english bigots. Who blame Labour and ''Westminster'' for everything.


#312 drop the Iraq stuff you are not the only person in Scotland to oppose it, your self imposed holier than thou moral ''authority'' is nauseating. Tens of thousands of people have died and you use that to score cheap points.
318

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 14:40:13
323 Grahamski

What beggars belief is your ability to come onto a thread and pick a fight without actually ever speaking about the article in question.

On the subject of swivel-eyed bigots and rascists, I've been to a few football matches where I've seen the worst of them, and they're not of a Nationalist persuasion either.


319

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 14:42:18
#334 your parents are conservative voters ? that is why you will feel so at home with the SNP then.
320

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 14:42:40
343 M'Lady

Does that mean we should just hand our license fee over for the BBC to spend on English sport?
321

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 14:42:49
339
Your warped vision of life in Britain is a truly painful thing to behold. To live in such bitterness for so long can be doing your health no favours.
Anyway, I merely pointed out that if the nationalist posters here want to be taken seriously then perhaps they shouldn't tell such obvious lies.
Treat it as a piece of friendly advice...
322

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 14:43:49
#342 You define half the english as holding on to the banner of imperialism. Well done you swivel eyed racist.
323

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 14:44:05

I wish it to me known that I am a full-bloodied, dyed-in-the-wool, supporter of the Union.

We must strengthen the historical link, increase the trade, and unite our two great conurbations as one!

Edinburgh and Glasgow.

That canal has lain unused for two long. As one of Scotland's finest engineering feats we must redevelop it for full use in the 21st century!

Long Live The Union Canal!





324

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 14:45:30
344
Before you do anything Andrew, perhaps an apology for your lies may be in order? Care to withdraw your claims that after showing most of the previous matches the BBC dropped the most important one as an absolute out and out lie?
325

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 14:45:41
#346 It is not cost effective compared to how much income we Scots generate to purchase the rights. That is the reality. Go to the pub and watch it.
326

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 14:47:35


Get your Swivel-Eyed Bigot Tee-Shirts here, personally signed by the late, great, Marty Feldman!





327

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/04/2008 14:48:13
274 - no doot we'll see Wendy the Red, Rt Hon Mr Speaker, Lord Foulkes, Paul Nolan and the rest of the working class heroes parading ootside the gates of Downing St against scraping the 10p tax starting rate.
Jeez, a pig flew past my windae !
328

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 14:50:19
#354 there's honesty for you I am glad that you admit the affinity between the Tories and the SNP. Well said.
329

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 14:50:42
350 Grahamski

Did the BBC not screen all of the away matches?
330

brownlie,

06/04/2008 14:51:49
335 Keith

Cast your mind back to previous elections. Despite the fact that we have treated Scotland like a back-yard they still vote for us in droves.
331

LABOUR WERE ELECTED BY 22% OF THE UK FACT,

Blooms with by yah 06/04/2008 14:51:53
Westminster General Election (change since 2005 in brackets)
SNP: 31% (+13)
Lab: 35% (-5)
Con: 17% (+1)
Lib: 12% (-11)
Oth: 4%

One recent poll had Labour on (11%)

Labour were elected by 22% of the UK population. Kick this minority government out now.
332

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 14:51:53
#356 What does it have to do with this discussion ? Iraq is a different issue and it should be treated with respect.
333

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 14:52:19

My name is Grahamski and I demand an apology! And if that is not forthcoming I shall demand two - the second for the absence of the first.

I shall count to five and if I don't get one, you will- no! Wait. that didn't come out right. Okay.

You will have to accept the consequences. Yes. I don't know what they are yet but you will regret accepting them.

Right. I will begin counting ... from now.

One, two, three, four ... four and quarter ... four and a half ... four and three quarters- right!

Don't think you dumb insolence scares me off.

I shall count to ten!

One, two, three, four ...
334

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 14:54:14
358
They did but NONE of the home matches. You claimed that they showed most of them then dropped the last one 'in favour of England' to make your pathetic and ultimately misinformed point.
As I said, why let the truth get in the way of your bitter and just a little bit racist rant, eh?
335

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 14:55:29
LA saw you getting horse-whipped by that anarchist from along the road on the Herald boards. Oh how I laughed...
336

Richard,

west lothian 06/04/2008 14:55:50

Grahamski,
Falkirk

I ASKED YOU A QUESTION?
337

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 14:56:24

"Des Browne is not a man to walk past a mirror without casting it an admiring glance."

Quintin Letts
338

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 14:56:58
#363 they make it up as they go along all based on an imaginary sense of injustice. It is a whole fish supper they have on their shoulders not just a chip.
339

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 14:57:56

Grahmaski - he disappeared where his head is permanently lodged ... Any more fibbing and I will have to demand an apology.

340

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 14:58:10
361
Iraq has nothing to do with this article or discussion. Typical SNP obfuscation.
341

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 14:59:38
#367 The Conservatives in Scotland are no different from the Conservatives in england, they are a right wing party with a very narrow and racialist outlook and are ultimately the enemies of the working class. and they are your bedfellows.
342

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/04/2008 15:00:04
Richard,
Sorry I must have missed it. What was your question?
343

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 15:00:19
343. Lady Muck, re Iraq! Great post! When us Unionists attacked Salmond over Kosovo, we were not of course scoring points the way these Nats are by questioning the Iraq policy! Only wwe unionists are allowed to point score! And it is totally outrageous that Iraq is discussed at all - that is point scoring of the worst kind. Silence is golden and all that, sock it to them!
344

KeithD,

Fife 06/04/2008 15:00:52
342

Yeh i know mate i think being brainwashed from birth has a lot to do with the anti independence stance.I see that no unionist has answered the question of post 325,probably will never get a straight answer as their heads will be steeped in the "you must belong to westminster" concept.

Honestly,i really don't understand why people would'nt take an opportunity to govern their own country,do they want another country to rule them forever?No wonder people emigrate and try and make a living elsewhere and then we have to bring in immigrants to cover for them.
By the way i am no racist or bigot just because i say "immigrant or unionist" and i am not anti -English,in fact in some strange way i am starting to like the English more than i use to because of more power that we are getting from them.
345

Richard,

west lothian 06/04/2008 15:02:13
Grahamski,Falkirk,

Is there any "swivel-eyed bigots and closet racists" in unionism's ranks?
346

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 15:02:13
361. Quite right! When we unionists say "governing dangerously" and "shoddy government" that does not invite comparision to our record in Iraq or with sexed up dossiers! Why oh why oh why can the Nats not see this is a one-way traffic zone and start playing fair!
347

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:03:37
#373 Alex Salmonds statement on Kosovo was entirely correct. what a shame that so many of you nats now welcome Kosovo's ''independence'' shame on the lot of you. And shame on you for continuing to raise the Iraq issue out of context.
348

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/04/2008 15:04:01
364 Grahamski

OK, so they screened Scotland's away matches but not their home games. And yes, if Sky AND the BBC can get the rights for England's games and English Premiership games then likewie Scotland. At approx. 8.5% of the cost at the very most. No apology required.

I, however, would like an apology for your rascist accusation.
349

,

06/04/2008 15:04:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
350

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 15:04:09
371. Lady Muck! Great post (but i hope no Nat asks why Labour are with the Tories on the constitutional commission or when they voted with them against council houise building - twin beds clearly in those cases!)
351

brownlie,

06/04/2008 15:04:30
361 Lady Muck

Please note that, on orders from high, we do not discuss the war. We do not mention cheap in connection with it in case the nats quote figures of £8 billion in relation to it. They might even throw in some casualty figures as a political truism in a bid to show that the invasion was a madness which will continue for a generation.
352

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:05:32
#376 you have just done it again what does the dodgy dossier have to do with this discussion. You show yourself up.
353

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 15:05:32
377. Laby Muck! You are red hot, great stuff. The context for raising Iraq is clearly not the context of the UK Defence Secretary talking about "dangerous governing"!

354

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 15:07:24
382. Lady Muck! Magisterial, you are dynamite! Clearly when the article has the UK defence secretary talking about "hoodwinking" people and "diversions in politics" any mention of the sexed up dossiers would be irrelevant, as they did not hoodwink anyone!
355

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:08:27
#380 what is your point caller ? The tories and labour lost the vote, council houses will be built. and a good thing too.
356

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:09:36
#385 In what you call your mind you think it is OK to compare this political piffle with the lies told about Iraq ? Grow up. some issues are more serious than others.
357

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 15:10:10
386. Lady Muck - great post. Just because Labour voted with the Tories and are with them on the constitutional commission, does not mean they are in bed with the Tories the way the SNP are!
358

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 15:12:03
387. QUite right - the SNP hoodwinking people with their rubbish about freezing council tax and abolishing bridge tolls (those will never happen!) is far more serious, and should be discussed, whereas you were correct Iraq should not be mentioned, even in relation to an article where the UK defence secretray talks about dangerous government!
359

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 15:12:22


Grahamski

By the use of two digits
An opinion was born.
Crammed between "Politics"
And Internet "Porn."

360

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:12:37
#388 Thank you for confirming that the SNP have no interest in socialism that you think it is outdated and something from the past. Well said sir.
361

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:14:05
#389 Labour are irrelevent to me I am pulling the wings off the SNP here, I will pull theirs off later.
362

Prof,

06/04/2008 15:15:17
It beggars belief that Des Browne who is member of a government who sent young scots soldiers overses to be killed in an illegal war has the nerve to criticise other political parties.
363

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 15:15:37
392. Erm, hold on? Are we calling the SNP right-wing today? Only I thought we did that yesterday? Should we not call them left wing today then? We are getting disorganised, where is Grahamski, he will know.
364

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:15:56
There is no point of connection between council tax freeze and the war crime that was Iraq unless you choose to make one, which is distateful to say the very least.
365

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 15:16:23

Wee Scots as sooo gullible it is easy for a base politician like Des Browne to hoodwink us into believing everything he says.

366

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 15:17:19

And if he says the SNP hoodwink us it is proof positive we are gullible. Totally.
367

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:17:51
Spook - there is reason to have a grievance with the Tories I can only assume you are quite young if you do not understand that.
368

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 15:18:06
Lady Muck

Being a simple minded Nat I was wondering if you could explain the benefits of PFI/PPP. Is it like getting a free gift cheaply? or is it more like getting something for nothing for not a lot of money? please explain if you can spare me the time.
369

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 15:19:32
401. Hold on Mucky, if you are going to yank the wings off Labour and the Tories, who will save our Union? I begin to think you are a Nat imposter!
370

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:19:49
Spook - if you think the days of mass unemployent are over then you may be in for a surprise. when the US sneezes London gets a cold and we get pneumonia - The US has been sneezing quite a lot
371

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:21:00
#403 No I am not a nat imposter I can promise you that. You lot are just as bad, that is the point I am making.
372

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:23:32
#402 the whole pfi thing is a disaster but what really did the SNP do about it ? they did not actively campaign against it as then they would have been portrayed as being against building new hospitals and schools, they sat on the sidelines and sniped.
373

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 15:23:47


And while we are on the subject of George W. Bush:

When he heard sectarian militias had killed US soldiers, he ordered an immediate invasion of Sectaria.


374

brownlie,

06/04/2008 15:23:52
Lady Muck,

I'm beginning to think you are a Nat in disguise - you keep referring to the war when you should, like Grahamski, concentrate on important matters like a football match.
375

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:24:37
What strange people you know Colonel. Was that at Sandhurst ?
376

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/04/2008 15:25:47
401 - didn't you notice that Thatcherism became New Labour ? Her Satanic Majesty, Mags said as much herself.
377

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:26:44
#410 the snp want to be all things to all men. that is why I don't trust them. and as i said their supporters continual usage of Iraq as a battering ram against labout is nauseating - the issue is too serious to be treated like that.
378

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 15:28:49

Okay, Browne Nose - I know you are relieved at the way debaters on this forum have dashed off in all directions simultaneously and forgotten about your chronic stomach rumbling ... but don't think you can get off so easily a second time.

I wonder what's on television.




379

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:28:52
#413 you think being independent will make a difference ? we will still be subjected to the same vagaries of capatalism as we are now. we should be uniting with other people to resist that not seperating. you think unemploymemt will stop at a border ?
380

Conan the Librarian™,

06/04/2008 15:31:50
414
The SNP want an independant country.That country will have a parliament where all shades of politcal thought will be represented.
There may even be a Conservative and Re-unionist party ;-)
381

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 15:32:03

#416

Lady Muck - for a person of breeding and high education your spelling is dangerously anarchic.

But I wish you good luck with your impersonation of a Unionist ...



382

Hamish Scott,

06/04/2008 15:32:09
#343
"#331 England is a bigger country and has more chance of winning things. You might not like that but it is the truth. That is why the BBC bought the rights to their matches and not Scotlands."

That being the case why do the BBC cover English cricket and rugby union?
More seriously, coverage of Scotland games would could cost no more per head of population than coverage of England games. The simple reality is that the BBC were prepared to outbid Sky for the England games but not for the Scotland games, yet we all pay the same licence fee. You may be happy with that but many are not and quite rightly so.
383

Conan the Librarian™,

06/04/2008 15:35:22
415
Los Angeles
I've got a picture of the grandbairns on mine.

It's the only thing I look at.

Apart from the Simpsons.
384

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 15:35:28
From today's Observer

Our Dear Leader has come up with a cunning plan to recruit more troops in case he has to invade Scotland to save the poor oppressed socialists from the nasty Nats. This will be only done after they have sworn allegiance to New Labour Sleaze and Corruption and the Union Flag

"Plans for comprehensive school pupils to sign up for military drills and weapons training backed by PM"
385

Maitland,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 15:36:15
Surely this sort of Unionist rant is just what the Westminster bullying is all about? Well done to Alex S. for standing up for Scotland for the first time in 300 years. Browne and Brown (and others) are anti Scottish sharks who have been subborned by the South East where "everything is great!". The sooner we get rid of them the better for Scotland.
386

LABOUR WERE ELECTED BY 22% OF THE UK FACT,

06/04/2008 15:36:47
#421 The Spook in leith

=FACT Labour indeed try and spout out drivel and doom and gloom scenarios. This tactic is aimed at diverting public opinion away from their own incompetency in government. =FACT
387

Lady Muck,

06/04/2008 15:37:16
#419 I am dangerously anarchic and I am not a unionist either.

#420 There are more people who want to watch cricket than want to watch Scottish football. It is the British Broadcasting Corporation not the Scottish Broadcasting corporation. We have 5 million people give or take they have between 55 and 65 odd million depending on whether you count the ''illegals''.
388

Conan the Librarian™,

06/04/2008 15:37:51
419
Are you saying that Unionists are better spellers?
389

LABOUR WERE ELECTED BY 22% OF THE UK FACT,

06/04/2008 15:38:45
#324 Well said = FACT.

Scottish Parliament constituency vote (change since 2007 in brackets)
SNP: 40% (+7)
Lab: 32% (-)
Con: 12% (-5)
Lib: 13% (-3)
Oth: 4%

Also =FACT
390

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 15:41:22
#423

Sorry I forgot the link.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,,2271362,00.html
391

Maitland,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 15:41:32
And another thing - as for "governing dangerously" as the weasel Browne says - how about a government that takes the country into an illegal war and encourages the growth of fundamentalism and increased danger to every one of the UK and US citizens? How's that for danger? That wasn't Holyrood, no,it was Westminster, Blair, Brown and Browne himself.
392

LABOUR WERE ELECTED BY 22% OF THE UK FACT,

06/04/2008 15:41:33
#426 Muck

But when can cricket attracted up to 60,000 spectators in Scotland? FACT IT CANT = FACT
393

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 15:45:48

I'm a vacuous Unionist prat
It says so on my hat.
I love to dribble,
Parse and quibble,
And poke fun and Cyber Nats.

I'm a hip Hooray Henry,
I'm blogging every day.
You'll see my crap,
Laid like a trap,
To neuter Nats nuts away.





394

LABOUR WERE ELECTED BY 22% OF THE UK FACT,

06/04/2008 15:48:49
At 04:28 BST, it was announced that Labour had won Corby, giving them 324 seats in the House of Commons out of those then declared and an overall majority, Labour's total reaching 356 seats out of the 646 House of Commons seats. Labour received 35.3% of the popular vote, equating to approximately 22% of the electorate on a 61.3% turnout, up from 59.4% turnout in 2001. Increased turnout was mostly attributed to the extension and promotion of the postal voting system, which has however been criticised by many as being too insecure increasing the risk of Electoral fraud.

=FACT
Labour are a minority party and 78% of the UK has no say. The Scottish Government is a minority government and has to work with other parties for policy changes and the Scottish parliament is reflective of how Scotland voted.

The SNP is doing a far grater job as a minority party in parliament than a part with a majority in parliament elected by only 22% of the UK=FACT

Now what about approval ratings? Salmond V Brown.
395

LABOUR WERE ELECTED BY 22% OF THE UK FACT,

06/04/2008 15:50:57
The Labour Government claimed that being returned to office for a third term for the first time ever showed the remarkable achievements of New Labour and the continued unpopularity of the Conservatives. Nevertheless, Labour's vote declined to 35.3%, the lowest share of the popular vote to form a government with a majority in the UK House of Commons in history=FACT
396

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 15:51:05
426. Mucky, I knew you were a Nat imposter!
397

,

06/04/2008 15:52:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
398

LABOUR WERE ELECTED BY 22% OF THE UK FACT,

06/04/2008 15:55:32
Labour were elected into office by 22% of the UK population=FACT What about the 78% who did not vote Labour.

Okay so not every one bothered to vote, well that leaves around 65% of people who did vote not having a voice. This is not right FACT
399

Hamish Scott,

06/04/2008 15:55:54
#426
I was trying to follow your logic (okay, bad idea) - you said the BBC should cover England team but not Scotland because had a chance of winning something. So why do they give so much coverage to English cricket and rugby? If the BBC are only to follow teams likely to win then they would be screening Brazil/France/Italy/Germany football teams, Australia/New Zealand cricket teams, South Africa/Australia/New Zealand rugby teams. But they don't, they cover England, so why not cover Scotland?
400

Los Angeles,

06/04/2008 15:59:06

436 Cideman

Will Santa Claus charge for his Chrismas visit?
Will Huskies be given sheep guarding jobs instead of collies?
Will we have to lick our own postage stamps?
Will book shelves be higher in independent Scotland?
Will our health service be the sick man of Europe?
How much whisky will we be forced to consume?
Will blogging drivel become compulsory rather tha recreational?

We should be told the answer to these and more questions before we wear our tartan shorts in public.





401

Jimmy the Pie,

06/04/2008 15:59:20
#436 Ciderman - welcome back - enjoy your lunch??

I didn't know Alex Salmond was a builder as well as a first rate politician. As he lives in your neck of the woods could you ask him if he could build my extension. Getting a builder that is good is very hard and I will take your word he is good (as he would have to be to build all those hooses.)
Does he accept cash???
402

roughrider,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 16:00:17
Browne is a pathetic creep who refuses to accept the fact that his lying sleaze corrupt party of scumbag inept parasites got humped and dumped in Scotland by the people who matter ,the Scottish public have had enough of your constant whinging and whining and low life attacks on the people who voted for the SNP.
We have not been hoodwinked by the SNP government and your pathetic attempt at scaremongering with your vile comments on A.Salmond just goes to show how sad you and your diminishing mob of liebour supporters really are.
Cant wait for the election and be rid of these liebour
incompetent fools.
403

brownlie,

06/04/2008 16:01:34
414 Lady Muck

With the deepest respect, your Ladyship, you are feeding the nats again. When you say the "SNP want to be all things to all men" it could be classed as being sexist and no doubt they will leap on that - if you'll pardon the expression.
404

Hamish Scott,

06/04/2008 16:03:59
#436
"How many council houses is Alec Salmond going to build? He will need a lot when he brings the 600,000 expat Scots home.
What will the marginal rate of income tax be in independent Scotland?
How much will petrol tax be?
Will Child Tax Credit be abolished in Salmond's Scottish utopia?
How much will whisky tax be?
Will there be free, at point of use, Health Service in Scotland, if Salmond gets his mitts on it?
Will food prices be higher in independent Scotland?
How much will a postage stamp be?
How much will National Insurance be?

We should be told the answers to these questions and many, many more, before being asked to vote in a referendum on Scottish independence."


"How many council houses is Gordon Brown going to build in 2011?
What will the marginal rate of income tax be in UK in 2011?
How much will petrol tax be in UK in 2011?
Will Child Tax Credit be abolished in Brown's British utopia?
How much will whisky tax be in UK in 2011?
Will there be free, at point of use, Health Service in Scotland, if Brown gets his mitts on it?
Will food prices be higher in UK or an independent Scotland?
How much will a postage stamp be in UK in 2011?
How much will National Insurance be in UK in 2011?

We should be told the answers to these questions and many, many more, before being asked to vote in a referendum on Scottish independence."

405

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06/04/2008 16:09:27
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406

 Ayrshire Scot™,

06/04/2008 16:10:15
440. LA. LOL, very good.

447. hoos poos
407

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 16:10:16
436. Cider, nice one, but I think you are trying to be too sophisticated. As soon as you posted that you could just seem some pesky Nat asking the same questions for Scotland in the UK in 20 years time! Leave the smart stuff to Grahamski and play to your strengths!
408

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 16:12:13
4449. Cider! Nat alert - saying the SNP have not raised any money for !investments" or control any revenues might undermine the whole "SNP cuts" argument you were developing before. just move on before the Nats notice!
409

,

06/04/2008 16:13:16
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410

,

06/04/2008 16:14:43
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411

Brian M,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 16:14:51
I await Red Wendy's immediate announcement that she will increase council tax, bring back bridge tolls, increase prescription prices, and get her pal Gordon to re-instate the 10% income tax band
412

,

06/04/2008 16:16:09
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413

Union is Best,

06/04/2008 16:18:22
456. Cider - BRILLIANT! Scotland will be like Sierra Lleone! Great post! Up the scare stories and doom, to the next level! SCots are stupid enough to buy this!
414

brownlie,

06/04/2008 16:22:43
436 Ciderman,

You should not be given the swivel-eyed nats opportunities to comment on tax especially income tax, petrol tax and our secret weapon the "National Insurance Stamp". They might point out - deluded fools - that we have put up taxes more than any other government in recent memory and when this is pointed out you can do no better than echo Ed Balls' elegant response "So what?"
415

,

06/04/2008 16:23:27
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