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Booze blitz: off-sales ban for under 21s



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Published Date: 15 June 2008
UNDER 21s will be banned from buying alcohol at supermarkets and off licences under a controversial plan to shake-up Scotland's drink laws.
Ministers want to stop teenagers buying cheap alcohol and believe a three-year increase in the age limit will reduce the nation's chronic drink-related violence and health problems.

A major action plan on alcohol will be unveiled on Tuesday by Jus
tice Secretary Kenny MacAskill who has waged a campaign against Scotland's culture of drinking since taking over the job last year.

Over-18s will still be allowed to drink in pubs and bars but ministers are said to be insistent on the need for radical reform of off-sales, arguing that "enough is enough" in the battle to bring an end to Scotland's "booze culture".

Along with the increase in the age limit, MacAskill will also propose setting minimum prices for alcohol and banning three-for-two and buy-one-get-one-free deals.

Last night, the drinks industry reacted angrily to the proposals, claiming they will "demonise and mystify" alcohol for teenagers.

The increase in the age limit to 21 for off-sales follows a pilot in the West Lothian town of Armadale where the restrictions were enforced recently.

Sources say MacAskill has also been influenced by the example of Sweden where the age limit for off-sales is 20, two years more than the bars and pubs limit.

A Government source said: "The 21 age limit will be in the document.

"Kenny has seen what they are doing in Sweden and wants to do it here as well."

MacAskill is said to be "spoiling for a fight" over the issue, pointing to recent figures which show that alcohol is costing Scotland more than £2bn a year.

But retailers and drinks bosses accuse him of having railroaded his plans through with no consideration for their own trade, or for household pockets, at a time when the cost of fuel and food are increasing.

Fiona Moriarty, of the Scottish Retail Consortium, said: "We need to see the detail of what will be in the consultation document. However in relation to raising the age limit for off-sales to 21, we should be encouraging young people to have a responsible attitude to drink and this move would only do cultural damage by demonising and mystifying alcohol. It seems unfair for young people to be treated in this way."

She added: "If the Government want to go down the road to increasing the age limit for off-sales but not on-sales, it would send a mixed message to young people and to Scotland in general."

Experts warned that ministers should focus on ensuring the current age limit was properly enforced before making it even more stringent.

Ken Barrie, director for the Centre for Alcohol and Drug Studies at the University of Paisley, said: "It might be more appropriate to say we have age limits and restrictions in place at present and that we want to implement those properly."

There are also warnings that a different age limit in Scotland would see alcohol being brought up from England by under-21s.

Gavin Partington, of the Wine and Spirits Trade Association, said: "You could open up the possibility of cross-border trade between England and Scotland."

Last night, the SNP Government was accused of "gross hypocrisy" as it emerged that next week they will also launch a major food and drink strategy, urging Scots to buy local produce, such as whisky.

Critics also said it was "bizarre" that ministers were considering increasing the age limit for alcohol at the same time as launching a campaign to cut the age limit for voting to 16.

However, alcohol experts and medics last night said they would back any moves to increase the price of alcohol in off-sales. It comes after supermarkets were criticised last week for having cut the price of many drinks over the last year, while food and other costs had risen.

Barrie said: "What will make the most difference is the price of alcohol. That is the thing that will change people's behaviour.

"The price of alcohol did go up in the budget but it didn't go up enough to change people's behaviour.

"You will have an overall reduction in consumption that will affect the wealthy less so then the poor get hit. But the health of the poor will improve."

Does Scotland want to end its booze addiction?



The full article contains 750 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 00:48:38

And you want 16year olds to have,,'The Vote'!

One Law for you, and one Law for others!

Your off your Heads!

And the,..'Sad Fact Of Matter' is,,

It will NOT MAKE A 'HOOT' OF DIFFERENCE!!

Are you that thick not to understand!,?

Well Let me,...'Tell You' once and for-all!!!!

'Teens' are NOT Stupid or Daft! they WILL Always find the Means to get their 'BOOZE'!

Gods Sake! (sorry God it being Sunday and all that) But Really!,..

Its worse than being at,..'Pre-School'!
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 00:50:24

Grrrrrr!
3

Rab The Ranter,

Ayrshire 15/06/2008 01:12:49
These are the clowns who ban under 18's from buying cigs, but want them to vote.

These are the clowns who say you can marry, have kids, die for your cuntree, pay tax but can't buy a beer.

I despair for dear land.

A devalued government from a devalued parliament from a devalued democracy.
4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 01:14:04


Ford Transit ~4,

Total Agree!

My Daughters NEVER had "Alcohol" out of reach in the household,

It was, NO BIG DEAL! hence curiosity never took them on a,..

"Binge Drinking Session"

Yes the had their 'Nights Out' with the Girls, yeas they had a drink!

Was I Bovvered,?

NO I WAS NOT!

Because, Both Girls were brought up in a,..

'Balanced-Household' and never drunk to excess!

Start,..'Forbidding' and they will Rebel!

As I would to this very day!
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 01:16:51


"Booze blitz: off-sales ban for under 21s"

Madness UTTER Madness!
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 01:19:56


But 'Hey' its OK to have Sex! and get STD's!

And its OK, to have about, 5Babies before you reach 21!
7

Grayzesdun,

East Lothian 15/06/2008 01:39:19
Agree with all the above.
Also "alcohol is costing Scotland more than 2bn a year" (sorry, can't get a pound sign for some reason) - maybe so, but does anyone have any figures showing how much tax and duty is raked off from the vast majority of us who do drink in a reasonably sensible way?
8

Itchy,

15/06/2008 01:58:52
"MacAskill will also propose setting minimum prices for alcohol and banning three-for-two and buy-one-get-one-free deals."

Mr MacAskill seems to think this is the Soviet Union. What right does he have to set prices?
9

Guga II,

Rockall 15/06/2008 02:53:51
That waste of space Kenny MacAskill is reverting to his Labour Party heritage by bringing in totalitarian measures.

He doesn't need to change the age law, nor to penalise ordinary people by forcing up prices. Why doesn't he just try enforcing existing legislation?

To make matters worse, this would be totalitarian is/was a drunken football hooligan.

10

bill inch,

EDINBURGH 15/06/2008 03:07:58
Get rid of this the lots of them. turn the building into the tourist curio it is.
11

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 15/06/2008 03:27:28
So a 21 yr old bootlegs for those younger.

Man what a shower of losers those in government are.

We Scots are an nation that is tremendously affected by chronic alcoholism, yet this is the best we can do.

Pitiful. It really is.

All the best.
12

AB_R,

15/06/2008 04:11:40
This is only to be expected from the party that introduced the smoking ban, I said at the time that that was only the start.

13

John Gilmore,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 04:25:44
They really are the Scottish Nutter Party.

Who do these reptilians think they are: they say
that you're adult enough to vote at 16, but not
adult enough to drink or smoke: at 18 you're adult enough to drink (in a pub) or smoke (outside) and
tan in a sunbed - but you shouldn't be allowed to
buy a bottle of wine to take to a friends for dinner.

On second thought 'reptilian' is inadequate as a description of these ......... suggestions anyone?
14

!Ya basta!,

15/06/2008 04:30:15
Great idea, start it as soon as possible along with other measures.
15

Sober Sue,

15/06/2008 04:42:27
I think its a very good idea as nothing else seems to be stopping the under age drinking culture at present. By making it tha bit harder for undr 21's to obtain alcohol it may make them realise its not good for them in the first place!
16

Incandescent,

15/06/2008 05:53:02
Enforecement and proper punishment for enfringement of existing laws is all that is necessary. Enforcement has obviously been increased in my neck of the woods, as spring/summer has so far been incredibly devoid of groups of hosed-up teenagers shouting and screaming way past their bedtime. The nonsense about limiting promotions is an affront to commercial and civil liberties.

16 - Though I agree with the specific point you make, I suspect the proportion of 18 year-olds wishing to purchase a bottle of wine for a dinner party are neglible in the context of mass social disorder every Friday/Saturday and the ever-increasing school holidays.
17

Kenny A,

15/06/2008 06:10:07
Now we are getting bizzare. Raising the drink age will just mean more kids are nicked. Lets be honest 21 years old is a serious adult.

My childern were allowed to drink from an early age, if they wished there was no mystery in it. Both are well matured people who rarly drink, no criminal records etc.

Perhaps Mr MacAskil should look at France and Spain for inspiration instead of Sweden. Stupid proposals he is coming out with.
18

Hermitage,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 06:46:47
I see that the latest soundbite is

'demonise'.

What with teensgers themselves, and now alcohol being 'demonised', what next?

Teachers/old folk/tanker drivers/Holyrood's pretendy parliament/ (take your choice)?
19

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 15/06/2008 07:02:45
Am I the only one on here all for this? Surely not.

Scotland has a chronic alcohol problem (has done for years) & it's getting worse among our young.

Anything to make it more difficult for youngsters just starting out on life from accessing cheap booze has to be welcomed.

Some of the posts on here are - to put it mildly - deeply disturbing, as if it's OK for their kids to have access to booze - "my child won't misbehave when they are out with their mates..." Afraid that's NOT the case for far too many people who are terrorized by drunk hoodlums across the land.

Out of sight - out of mind?
20

,

15/06/2008 07:36:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
21

tertee,

15/06/2008 07:48:22
I hope the measures are rigidly enforced. We don't need more statutes then no one with the stature to enforce them.
22

Kenny A,

15/06/2008 08:15:01
22 Richard

Agree with much of what you said but feel that raising the age limit will be counter productive and discriminate against sensible kids. Education when young I think is the way ahead, do not make it special to drink which seems to have been the thing, right of passage stuff.

Drink is a major issue without doudt but I am also very worried about the drug culture, luckily I was not drawn to that but seeing what is going on scares the living daylights out of me.

I cannot say I have a solution to either of these problems but am fairly certain Mr MacAskills plans are flawed and will not work.

As previously posted I made no secret about drink with my own childern and they have no real interest in the stuff.

Raising the drinking age will make no difference, the only thing that will is developing a sense of responsibility and a reasliation of what the consequences of drink can cause. Its up to parents to instill some sense in their childern. Raising the drinking age to 21 could in practice mean a young parent is not allowed to go for a drink, how can they then teach teir childern right from wrong on the subject.

Saying that someone who overdoes it should be punished fairly heavily. Something must be done without a doubt when I go home I do not go out for a beer in the everning as trouble and young drunks are all over the shop. They are a minority at the end of the day and the decent ones should not be punished for others behavior.

A difficult issue.
23

Paul Spencer,

Glasgow 15/06/2008 08:16:06
I have to say i dont think raising the age limit will make any difference, unless the SNP are prepared to limit the supply of licences to shops selling alcohol. In my area there are 4 corner shops who sell bevvy, and it has to be said that when I walk into to town on a nice summer night, you can be sure that the bulk of "young" drinkers have got their booze from these outlets. Education about alcohol isnt working, I dont think perscription will work either, the only way to cut down on consumption is to put the price up, something that the SNP cant do since this issue of taxation is a Westminster issue, I do however feel that cutting down on the outlets allowed to sale drink over the counter, might have some merit.
24

D. Scott , Esq.,

Riverside, CA USA 15/06/2008 08:24:04
Laddies!

It could be worse--over here in the States, you can vote at 18 but you can't buy alcohol of any sort (by the glass or by the bottle) until you're 21. Hell, in Utah (Land of the Mormons) you can't get a drink by the glass in any commercial establishment of any sort no matter how old you are. The only place you can even buy alcohol in Utah is in state-owned liquor stores if you're 21 or older (by the bottle only). Uggh!
25

,

15/06/2008 08:30:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

thinking,

15/06/2008 08:32:22
'But retailers and drinks bosses accuse him of having railroaded his plans through with no consideration for their own trade, or for household pockets, at a time when the cost of fuel and food are increasing.'
Surely household pockets should concentrate on food rather than alcohol. Food is essential, alcohol is not.
#15 according to a recent report of research done by a university, the smoking ban has already brought a 41% reduction in heart attacks
27

Forward not Back,

15/06/2008 08:34:38
Only 28 comments so far. Where are the usual Nat thread kidnapping trolls? Conspicious by their absence?

Carlisle and Berwick should welcome the new alcohol hypermarkets as the cars and vans head down the M74 and A1 to stock up!
28

hibbydoug,

edinburgh 15/06/2008 08:37:37
Great idea, why not go the whole hog and make the drinking age 21 like in New York. As a nation we need saved from ourselves!, some of the comments in this piece are laughable such as cross border trade with England...aye right , maybe if you live in Coldstream but you are not going to drive from Edinburgh to get a carry oot. The licence trade should be more resposible in their attitude-some of the commments from them are way out of line and they seem they have a god given right to ruin this nation.
We need to look at the number of Licenced premises as well, how is it that every corner shop has a booze licence?, when i was younger licenced premises were few and far between and their argument that they would not survive without selling booze is just tough-selling booze to kids is no argument for staying in business.
29

Indy Rep Kid,

15/06/2008 08:40:46
Cannot believe some of the comments on here.

I am no SNP fan but at least they are TRYING to tackle Scotland's most serious issue.

Vote at 16, smoke at 18, drink at 21 blah blah blah....... until Scotland can learn to drink then it deserves all the petty laws it gets.

For what it's worth, we should have a strict No ID, No Sale system as in the states. If that means an 80-year old man has to show ID then so be it - it is the price he pays for living here.

Ban drinking in the streets as well.

It won't stop ALL under-age drinking but it will make a difference and who cares if the kids retreat into their homes to drink....at least they are not dishing it out on the streets.
30

Bachus,

15/06/2008 08:59:39
McAskills proposals will go along way to negate the "He looked over 18 to me" defense so commonly used by the corner shop propritors who would sell thier granny for shilling
As for the supermarket giants they have used alcohol as loss leader for years without any regard to effects that drinking to excess has on the wider community,this coupled with their highly agressive marketing stategies have led our High Streets to become littered with Pound Shops ,Tartan Tat Emporiums and wall to wall drunken beggers.
The proposals show leadership, a qaulity sadly lacking in 99% of politicians. It is not a quick fix,if enacted it would take generation for the benefits to show
31

Boy Wonder,

15/06/2008 09:10:57
I'm all for getting some control on kids drinking ... but have people never heard the adage of Forbidden Fruit?? Ot that you can't stuff the genie back into the bottle?

There has to another way. All I know is that this isn't it! If banning a thing stopped it, they would've banned voting years ago!!
32

an interested party,

15/06/2008 09:18:32
this will solve the under age drink problem once and for all, just as banning under 18s from buying fags has solved the smoking problem and making it illegal to have sex under 16 has solved the teenage pregnancy issue

next we should make murder illegal for under 85 year olds
theft illegal for under 90 year olds and speaking illegal for politicians

this will so solve all our problems without even having to lift a finger.

i need more sand my head isnt buried deep enough
33

Al Pacino,

15/06/2008 09:31:33
Brilliant idea. Any comment to the contrary is stupid, small minded and immature. Scotland is an embarrassing mess, full of arrogant, chippy twits who appear not to see beyond the glory days of scientific inventiveness and 'wha's like us?' bluster. We're famous now for alcoholism and heroin. Proud?
Any measure to assist is of benefit.(No-one's talking about solving anything, you can't arrest several hundred years of self-loathing fuelled boozing from the national psyche) Time for heads to be withdrawn from backsides.
34

A Crofter,

Western Isles 15/06/2008 09:31:42
Does prohibition work???

Must go to check out the Hootsmon's wine auction offers ,,,,,
35

Citylocal Fife,

Fife News 15/06/2008 09:32:26
As they can't effectively police underage drinking at the 18 year limit, how are they going to make it work at a 21 year limit?
36

Kirsty Boyd-Williamson,

New Town 15/06/2008 09:32:38
"off-sales ban for under 21s"

A proposal born out of stupidity!

37

GM,

15/06/2008 09:49:27
@#8

Charles
Do you think that right now there is any link between the fact that 16 years olds are regularly getting tanked up on cheap booze, and your comment that we do have a very high rate of young, unmarried teenage pregnancies?
38

Boab,

Glasgow 15/06/2008 09:54:55
#4 'Why is the UK Government fighting a war in Afghanistan and yet supporting, for economic reasons, the Opium crop from which comes Heroin?'

You might also ask how come heroin production was stamped out by the Taleban and yet started again under the USA's regime after the invasion?

Back to the article; mixed feelings on this one, something needs to be done about drunk under-agers. Closing down more off-licenses might be the solution.
39

bring them on,

15/06/2008 10:01:55
In Japan the age limit is 21.

I would say that around 70% of males drink to excess everday.

Seems to work here.
40

madrab,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 10:07:00
Yet another stupid idea from the Minister for Stupid Ideas Kenny MacAskill.

Would it not be better for him to concentrate his considerable ability on delivering the SNP pre election pledge to provide an extra 1000 police officers?

With all these extra officers the existing laws might be able to be enforced.

Why has Kenny MacAskill not provided these officers yet?

Could it be that he needs the extra tax revenue that would be raised by setting a high fixed price for alcoholic drinks?

Does Kenny MacAskill think that we do not pay enough tax already?
41

Indy Rep Kid,

15/06/2008 10:11:30
#43 So what is your solution to Scotland's drink (and drink-fuelled violence) problem?

Putting more officers on the beat so they can deal with the fall out or trying to cut the problem at source?

42

madrab,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 10:18:56
#44 Duh! Is that not what I just suggested?

Lock up those causing trouble and let the rest of us enjoy our lives, I would have thought that would be easy to understand.
43

Webbie,

mullingar 15/06/2008 10:21:17
If I buy drink for an under 18YO I am buying drink for a minor and can be charged as such. If I buy drink for an under 21YO, who can legally drink in a pub, what is the offence?
44

Indy Rep Kid,

15/06/2008 10:28:52
#45 So your solution to Scotland's drink problem is to stuff the jail cells full of people who couldn't handle their drink and made a stupid mistake?

Or we can just try to cut off the problem at source? Which is more practical?
45

Englebert Humperdinck,

Here and there 15/06/2008 10:29:36
Why is no one who sells this alchohol to under age drinkers being made to take some kind of responsibility. The Government have it all wrong. They need a strict ID policy and need to be policed. If any conrner shop or off-licence or who ever gets caught selling alchohol to under agers why not hit them where it hurts? In the pocket.
Lets say a fine of a full years revenue and lose their trading licence completely? I am sure that would encourage them to check ID and not come up with their usual excuses of "They looked over 18". Although in most cases kids can always find someone older to buy it for them anyway. So! I dont think this problem will ever be solved.
46

Publius,

Girvan 15/06/2008 10:31:22
The SNP at Holyrood is getting as bad as Labour at Westminster. 'Control this'. 'Stop that'. 'Ban it'. If people are old enough to vote at 18, old enough to join the army and get killed, old enough to go to prison, then they are old enough to buy alcohol.

Of course, alcoholism and alcohol-fuelled violence are serious problems in Scotland. But most alcoholics are at least 21. Most violence is perpetrated by people in their 20s and 30s. The state should enforce the existing laws about buying alcohol, serving alcohol to drunks and disorderly behaviour in public places. It doesn't need any new ones.
47

Indy Rep Kid,

15/06/2008 10:32:13
#48 I would hope any law would include such measures against shop owners.

Taking away the licence of some shops would be enough to kill them so they would (you'd like to think) be wary of selling to kids.

And of course the problem will never go away but there is an opportunity to at least alleviate the problems.
48

bring them on,

15/06/2008 10:35:41
#46

That would be "supervised" drinking, so nae probs.
49

bring them on,

15/06/2008 10:37:04
#52

Going for the wee summary there
50

fishermans blues,

15/06/2008 10:37:05
Kenny has got good intentions but is going about it all wrong. I believe that if you drink alcohol and it has an adverse effect on those around you, such as you become violent and/or a general nuisance, then this privilege should be taken away from you. No longer allowed access to pubs or off-licence, via a court order. As a well behaved pub goer and citizen myself, then this would certainly make a night out for myself and friends more relaxing and enjoyable.

Fixed fines then jail sentences would soon do the trick as far as improving certain people's behaviour. I admit not all, but something is better than nothing. I can think of people who drink sensibly at all ages and also of people who will be the opposite at any age.

It's not rocket science, and what a strange country it would be where you would need to ask a neighbour to pop out and but a bottle of wine so as yourself and your wife could enjoy a glass with a meal, in the comfort of your own home. I can see the age of marriage increasing, seriously.
51

Helen,

15/06/2008 10:49:41
These proposals are a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. The hard facts are very clear....young people are drinking excessive amounts of alcohol from a much younger age. I'm in my 40s and think back to 15 or 20 years ago. Yes, we had a few drinks and yes we occasionally had too much, but it was never on a regular basis and never in the quantities consumed by young people nowadays. One of the factors was that the sale of alcohol was limited. Pubs closed in the afternoons (I grew up in England so laws may have been different in Scotland)and didn't reopen till 7pm. Off-licences didn't open anything like the hours they open now and the drink was expensive. Alcohol for sale in supermarkets was relatively unheard of but supermarkets didn't open until 10pm in those days. When I was a youngster we didn't have the kind of disposable income that teenagers seem to have now. Oh yes and one other thing...our parents would never have bought it for us!!
52

Micropacer,

15/06/2008 10:50:06
A good idea IMO. This is only really aimed at Neds. There will be posters on here that have sons and daughters that are Neds. The problem is the parents can never see it.

As someone that was part of a street gang many moons ago there were about 25-30 would get cheap drink from the local shop and once drunck terrorize the estate. This happens to a lot of places.

If 1]the drink wasnt cheap and 2]we couldnt get it then 3]we would have done something less destructive.

Too many posters on here sound like its a right for people to get plastered and act like idiots. Its not. Its the right of the rest of us not to have people like that around.

And if you think your children dont do it - like my parents did - and most peoples parents do - then you are probably completely deluded.
53

Micropacer,

15/06/2008 10:55:33
//Of course, alcoholism and alcohol-fuelled violence are serious problems in Scotland. But most alcoholics are at least 21. Most violence is perpetrated by people in their 20s and 30s. //

If I didnt have better things to do I could sit and rip these lame arguments apart all day. So where do these alcoholics come from? They start at 14/15/16 like some of my friends did. Getting cheap drink from the local shop. Also if we couldnt get it our slightly older friends usually 17/18 would. Thats where this makes sense from KM. Out of 10 close friends when younger 5 of us went onto better things, 2 are dead due to drink/drugs, the other 3 are messed up due to drink/drugs.

Frankly our country is a disgrace it lets this happen and some on here need a serious reality check.
54

an interested party,

15/06/2008 11:06:46
how do you know you would have done something less destructive no 56

when i was a little sh1te we didnt drink and where still destructive and annoying but mainly bored

sure drink can make this worse but its not the reason the young team do bad things

ban boredom for the under 50's i say
55

cabrach loon,

inverness 15/06/2008 11:14:33
education into the health aspects is essential in schools, banning never works (look at drugs?) - but where do they get the money for drinks and drugs? As a student I overindulged every Saturday but still behaved, my liver suffered 40 years later and now I am virtually teetotal, blame the TV shows, the lack of morals by celebrities (so called), the rubbishy tabloids and news items and the servants of the people in parliament but the suggested policies are worse than useless. Especially stealth taxes yet again. Ah well I always brewed my own anyhow and that is the best solution for the rest of us!
56

Maurice,

Fife 15/06/2008 11:23:34
Why doesnt the government just implant everyone with a microchip and pre-programm it so everyone does as they should. It has become more and more evedent since arriving here from a 3rd world country that the people of "great" Britain are just unable to think for themselves. They need this nanny state
57

frhugh,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 11:26:15
#57 - well said. That is the reality. I started dring just like that, and ended-up an alkie. What I cannot understand is people who disagree with the proposals, because they do not come up with any other measures to control and protect the youth of our country.
Therein lies the real root of the problem I think. It is the majority of adults who need education re alcohol.
Our whole culture towards alcohol must change so that our youth can be shown how to respect and drink responsibly. I lived for four years in Italy and their whole attitude to alcohol is completely different from that of Scotland.
However, until such drastic cultural changes occur in Scotland, I would support each and every measure to make our Nation realise that we have a MASSIVE alcohol problem in Scotland.
58

Buckfastleigh,

Cellae Monasticorum 15/06/2008 11:44:25
Oh why deny the water of life to those unfortunate minors who need the bonificent elixir of Buckfast wine?

You spiteful puritans who would indulge in imbibing liquor and at the same time fail to train youngsters into how to take the waters in a sober, healthy and respectful manner.

Probably incapable for the effect of the fumes reckless in legislation and harsh indeed you may be. Call for classes in moderation and respect for alcohool instead!

Many are the abbeys in France and Belgium and Italy etc. that produce a range of such liquour but do I see the rambling rambos and lewd wenches roaming aimless in the piazzas and streets in those countries? Alas no. So be educationalists and not Aunty Prues.
59

yockel,

15/06/2008 11:45:12
Presumably if Kenny made being an Ned illegal that would solve the problem - not.
60

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 15/06/2008 12:22:22
Something has to be done to cut back on the appalling cost in terms of health to young people and the oncost to NHS and police services. I know for a fact that the name of the game now is to get pi$$ed really quickly with a mix of cheap beer and spirits and then go down town to top up with the more expensive variety. Needless to say by that time the young and foolish are recklessly incapable. One of mine had a barbeque recently and maybe 20 kids turned up. One ended up wandering the streets aimlessly and another was found comatose behind his friend's van. One girl had to be given a lift home after she became incoherent and very drunk. My neighbours are now dining out on this event. They're not neds either but there is this cheap booze and fast/over-consumption regime in this age group.

The age restriction may not make a big difference (adults will buy instead) but making the polluter pay may sharpen up the act of vendors or publicans who flout the law. For example how many pubs continue to serve drink to the drunk and incapable? Quite a few judging by the condition of town centre inebriated at the weekend. Existing laws can be used if there was police presence to do so, which includes off licences selling to minors. Physical police presence would make a lot of difference - often they are noticeable by their absence, turning up to deal with the aftermath rather than helping prevent chaos. What are they doing, knowing this can be a flashpoint for rowdy conduct and violence?
61

EK,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 12:23:04
This law sounds like a good idea to me. The principle is that it will reduce the opportunities for the anti-social neds to obtain drink readily. Fair enough.

You have to agree that in many places people's lives are blighted by the anti-social behaviour fuelled by excessive alcohol consumption - violence, screaming and shouting gangs at all hours of the night (who should have their idiot faces slapped for their lack of consideration for people who might be ill, need to sleep, have children etc)broken glass, discarded food wrappings everywhere, vomit and urine.

So what if we have to pay more for or decrease our intake of alcohol a bit or if our so called civil liberties are affected a little? With freedom comes responsibility and if even the minority of people can't drink responsibly (and that's all you need for life for the majority to become blighted) then the government MUST act to combat this.

Of course there is more than one way to skin a cat - also enforce existing laws, have more police around on the streets for a while, promote decent social values, such as education and consideration for others and get rid of this stupid idea that it is "cool" to be mindlessly drunk all the time. Life isn't just about having fun. (PS I am not particularly religious, a puritan or a prude, just an educated man with a bit of sense. Thank you for listening).
62

Aqwes,

Edinnurgh 15/06/2008 12:39:39
In Sweden they also have a state monopoly on the sale of strong alcohol, and a problem with teens drinking the types of alcohol made in private individuals' bathtbubs. I hope the government have anticipated these problems arising from their plan.
63

Pilrig.,

Livingston 15/06/2008 12:42:49
"Raise the bevvying age" "Lower the voting age", "Raise the school-leaving age (England)" "join the armed forces at 16 but cannae see action till yer 18" "the age of sexual consent maybe to be lowered".
Hardly any wonder today's teenagers are mixed-up !
64

Charles MN,

15/06/2008 12:48:30
So what MacAskill is saying is it is wrong for a 20 year old to buy a bottle of wine to have with his evening meal? Or for a 20 year old shift worker to buy a six pack so he can have a couple of beers when he comes of shift? But it is OK for him to go to the pub and get blootered. That might be his idea of sensible drinking but it's not mine.

If they policed the current laws properly there would be far less problems.
65

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 15/06/2008 12:59:31
Here we go: the stupid Scottish Government thinking that yu just sign a piece of paper telling people under 21 that they won't get supermarket alcohol and magically they won't get it.

Nice and easy. Why didn't someone think of such a brilliant cure-all idea ever before?

Indeed, why not bring back total prohibition like they did in the States and lets have a new mafia selling poisonous bootlegged liquor like they do in Russia today. SNP numpty idiots.
66

EK,

15/06/2008 13:02:11
Aqwes, #67 - don't worry: None of the neds in Scotland are educated enough to be able to read and understand the instructions on home-made beer and wine kits. They most likely spent all their school years messing around, being insolent to teachers and drinking in their spare time(as it's uncool to learn but very cool to be an empty-head) and wouldn't know the difference between yeast, bacteria, sugar, enzyme or alcohol.
67

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 13:06:57
What a pathetic, stupid idea. MacAskill is both an idiot and a repressive killjoy. What a combination!
68

Pa broon,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 13:07:35
Here we go again. Let’s use a hammer to crack a nut. Everybody suffers because of a minority within the community. Its time that there were consequences to people’s actions. Put more police on the beat and prosecute those that continually misbehave.Changing the law to 21 in off licences will not work. Those that want the alcohol will find away of getting it.

69

Symmachus,

Rome 15/06/2008 13:34:55
#64

Yup - just make being a Ned illegal. Absolutely Brilliant. That is exactly the approach of Kenny Kretinus. It is the same concept behind ID cards. Only good people will have one. Fantastic - just legislate all our problems away. I demand a law making us all good, beautiful and rich. It is my human right after all.
The problem is that Kenny is a certified dolt. Scotland does not require a Justice Secreatary with good intentions - it requires a capable, pragmatic doer who can look at problems and see ways of doing something to tackle them. Legislation is an enabler - not a solution. As pointed out; how will this law be better enforced than any other? We've had 5000+ new laws since Labour came to power and they have had little effect.
We need Rudy Guiliani style zero-tolerance. That actually made a difference. And for those who want Scotland to become the new Socialist Totalitarian State of Sweden - go live there: you need permission to wipe your fundament, whilst freely conjoing with sheep in public - great!
70

lachlan,

15/06/2008 13:40:30
#74
agree we have the laws already to deal with behaviour of drunks.s.n.p. is in danger of loosing hard won support by nanny state tactics.i thought we were being encouraged to be more confident and think for ourselves
71

Highland Mighty,

15/06/2008 13:54:23
So the SNP think 16-20 year olds are mature enough to vote but not mature enough to buy alcohol??

They really should start talking to each other before speaking! LOL!
72

Watson,

Irvine 15/06/2008 14:07:30
Some supermarkets won't serve anyone alcohol unless they look 21. I have experienced anti-social behaviour caused through drink and it is not funny. The last incident invoved petrol bombs. Yes, the police were called and we're still waiting on then to arrive.
73

Andrew.,

Oxford 15/06/2008 14:44:21
Excellent News. The SNP are the new Consevatives.

Let's hope that the Government in England follows the Scottish example as they did with the smoking ban.

Now if only Licensing of all kinds was restricted from 3am until Midday Mon-Sat... Give people a chance to rest a little before buying their first half bottle of the day*.

*I'm sure many readers will know at least one "pillar of society" who has could do with a chance to sober up in the morning before nipping round to their local off licence.
74

stainrod,

ek 15/06/2008 14:50:31
under 21's should ensure that they vote out the clowns who think this will stop alcohol abuse.Another example of a minority government unable to make a meaningful difference to Scotland and turning to the easy target of personal liberty.In the poorer households a couple of drinks at the weekend is the only entertainment that can be afforded. But hey the middle class careerist politicos don't really give a hoot!
75

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 15/06/2008 14:54:17
This newspaper publishes with predictable regularity these stories on underage drinking and banning and regulation, etc. so it MUST be true, must it not?
76

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 15/06/2008 14:56:55
Hello Methalions. I too didn’t think we'd ever agree on much but, like you I'll hold my nose and say "it's good to agree on something for a change!"

What we don't need is more law and more restriction. I don't know about the people reading this but when I was a teenager then the likes of some trumped up politician (sorry - trumped was a bad word after last week's golf course thread and I unreservedly retract it) telling me what to do and when to do it made me do the very opposite. That is what most teenagers do. It is built into them.

Education and help where it is needed is the only way forward. Not criminal records and yet more laws.
77

Who Dares Wins,

15/06/2008 15:06:09
Thank god for the SNP's nanny-state, freedoms and personal responsibilities bore me.
78

Who Dares Wins,

15/06/2008 15:11:22
The SNP are a lot like Labour.

They see intelligent, youthful young University students enjoying a picnic on the cheap on a public green with a couple of cans of lager. They see these aspirational and successful citizens, smiling and laughing on a well earned rest from studying hard subjects, like medicince and physics. And the SNP fill up with hatred.

The SNP, as with Labour, hate successful young people because they are jealous of hell of those with brains and ability. They need to drag it all down to their squalid oppressive level, time and again.

If a stinking lazy client of the State can't learn to smile and behave responsibly then we must all stop laughing and having, romance and picnics.
79

Raleigh,

Edinburgh 15/06/2008 15:14:36
Nice to live in a police staate. Always the same dumb actions: Instead of investing into education to bring our schools up to continental standards, all they do is interfere with our freedom once again. Argh.
80

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 15/06/2008 15:20:08
Before we get too carried away about Pimms No 1 romantic picnics and the like there is a real problem with youngsters boozing. Many of us here appear to be agreed that just telling people (young or old) what to do and what not to do won't work but can we a) agree there is a problem; and b) also agree that education seems to offer the only hope for improvement?
81

Vancouver,

North Vancouver 15/06/2008 15:21:34
I am pleased to see the Government is trying to do something in regards teenage drinking, I have seen many a young lad life ruined because of drink, Oh! I know I may sound a goody, goody type of person but I am not I used to have a beer on occasions like a party, when I played darts, I never ever bought Beer to drink at home and I never visited a pub before going home after work, I stopped the little drink I used to take because I was a volunteer a few yeras ago with the police and we would go out on counter attack to get the Drink and Drive drivers of the road, I stopped then because I did not think it was right booking others when one time I may end up doing the same.
This does not make me feel a man for what I did, just a sensible human being.
For those teenagers out there is concerned Drinking did not make anyone a MAN you can look up to, I am not saying I am better than anyone else and if you young people out there can only see what I have seen through the years what it has done to some young people you would keep away from it, I have not forgotten what my first wife said about 50 years ago and I quote, "I DON"T NEED DRINK TO ACT DAFT, I CAN ACT DAFT WITHOUT IT" unquote, so please you young people don't ruin your lives with drink.
82

Who Dares Wins,

15/06/2008 15:26:43
86 Mikko

Cheap lager isn't the problem.

Violent criminals are a a problem, treat the cause, scumbags who bring up scumbags is the real problem.

Having a few cans down the beach with a barbeque is part of growing up.

But because the SNP aren't filled with decent people who enjoy socialising and having fun they want to kneecap decency and everything that makes life a little more pleasant. So we can all be made to live as stinking souless stay at homes like the SNP/Labour's hardcore voter.
83

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 15/06/2008 16:08:24
#88 Now you have a real point there. I agree cheap booze isn't the problem; hell, in Spain they have had litre tetrapaks (however you spell that) of 13% red wine for years available for 30p. They have their drunks and winos but less than here and much lower street violence.

I do not think we have the right to try to control the alchol market - only to educate people on how to use their freedoms. I don't know about you - but when somebody says: "Mikko you WILL do this because I am the governmet and I say so" - I naturally rebel. I assume I am not unique so then we need to deal with people - both young and old accordingly.
84

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 15/06/2008 16:10:15
Education is the way forward. Poco y poco (bit by bit).
85

Conan the Librarian™,

15/06/2008 16:28:41
So lets see...A soldier coming back from a tour of duty in Iraq or Afghanistan, can't buy a bottle of champagne to celebrate his fourth wedding anniversary, merely because he is twenty years old?


86

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 15/06/2008 16:34:13
#91 Yes Conan, that is what they want. I think if you are old enough to fight and die for your country you are old enough to drink. End of argument - or does anyone here disagree?
87

Allan(handofgod137),

15/06/2008 16:46:32
#88 You've hit the nail on the head, most labour and snp activists are rather sad "Billy no mates" types, as exemplified by MacHalfwits arrest at the football, if he'd been there with a bunch of mates, the odds are someone would have calmed him down before he got arrested. Unfortunately the leftists want to ban everything they do not enjoy, understand or comprehend.
88

Who Dares Wins,

15/06/2008 17:22:32
The current police procedure is that when a child is caught with booze, the booze is destroyed and no further action taken.

The parents aren't chastised for wasting police time.

Local mini-markets are never threatened for providing the booze. Can of cheap lager at Tesco is usually 80p or so, can at Abduls is usually £1.20 or so. Abdul's customers won't get served at Tesco.

All that will happen is that this law will be ignored and when the usual suspects are caught, nothing will get done as before.

The problem is the SNP/Labour are just farming human beings in council estates. Parents/children accept no responsibility for their own actions and the state must do it all.

F*** the SNP.
89

Who Dares Wins,

15/06/2008 17:26:45
Has anyone ever wondered how Abdul can sell alcohol at 150% of its market value? He's clearly not got disserning customers looking to save a few quid, or he has a clientelle that can't buy in respectable instituions.

A bit of police work, there is no way underage people are getting their booze from the supermarkets, they are squeeky clean when it comes to serving people.