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Adjust your watches at the border...



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Published Date: 29 June 2008
THOSE English nationalists who claim Scotland is lagging behind the rest of the UK might soon be able to prove their point. Tory MPs are backing a plan to move England ahead of Scotland by an hour, in a bid to resolve a long-standing dispute over the UK's most appropriate time zone.
The move is being backed as Conservative shadow ministers preparing for likely victory in the next general election begin to consider plans to change the time zone in the UK to bring it into line with western Europe.

The plan is backed by environm
entalists, farmers and road safety experts in England who say it would make better use of the light down south, but in Scotland it has been met with fierce opposition.

With dawn in winter arriving later than in England, opponents have warned that farmers would be forced to work in the dark until mid-morning, while schoolchildren would have to go to school in pitch black for months on end.

Previous attempts by Conservatives to change the time zone have foundered due to fierce opposition by Scottish MPs.

However, Tories are now suggesting the matter of Scotland's time should be decided by Holyrood, having lost patience with Scottish MPs who have managed to block it thus far.

That opens the prospect of MSPs in Holyrood voting to maintain the status quo, while MPs in England back a change to move ahead an hour.

Conservative MP Tim Yeo, who has put forward a private members' bill pressing for change, said: "If Scotland wants a different time then that would be fine. It would be entirely reasonable and in keeping with devolution. There is no difficulty for one country to have more than one time zone." However, shadow ministers prefer a UK-wide solution.

A two-time zone nation would immediately raise several problems, for example, over TV scheduling. If London-based schedulers moved to the new English time zone, the watershed in Scotland would effectively begin at 8pm "local time", and not 9pm as at present.

And the dreaded "red eye" flights to England would get even worse for business travellers who would have to get to the airport an hour earlier to make early-morning meetings down south. Travellers who currently take a 7am flight from Edinburgh or Glasgow to get to a 9am meeting in London, would find themselves having to get a 6am "Scottish time" flight in order to make the same meeting. However, Scots flying back in the evening would gain an extra hour and might just get home in time for tea.

The demands for change in England come with Jersey soon to hold a referendum on becoming the first part of the UK to move to Central European Time (CET). The move is expected to be passed even though there is opposition on the island to the idea of moving away from mainland time.

But if the Tories do get into power, it is likely that the rest of England and Wales could follow. Supporters insist that the move would benefit most of the country, claiming that, during winter, an estimated third of the population are still asleep when the sun rises but arrive home from school or work in the dark and cold.

The plans are also being backed by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents which claims that a change would stop 450 accidents involving deaths and serious injuries every year.

Meanwhile, environmentalists claim that a change would save 5% of Britain's entire electricity use, as people made use of lighter evenings.

However, a spokesman for the SNP said: "In Scotland, the majority of people would prefer the extra hour of daylight in the morning. Scottish children should not have to go to school in the dark."

On the details of Yeo's Bill, he said: "Either the Scottish Parliament would be forced to accept this change, or have a different time zone than that in England. Obviously the SNP believe that the Scottish Parliament should have responsibility for all matters – clearly this bill isn't a serious way to address the issue."

The most recent opinion poll on the subject showed 54% in favour of the moving to CET, with 59% backing it in southern England but only 40% in Scotland.

However, a spokesman for the National Farmers' Union in Scotland said they would continue to look at the possibility of a change of time for the whole of the country.

He said: "The gut reaction is still against such a change because of the increased darkness in the morning. But we keep an open mind on the subject and if we can be convinced that the impact to farming would be negligible then we could understand the need to go down that route."





The full article contains 804 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 28 June 2008 7:09 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

ThomasP,

29/06/2008 00:38:16
2However, Tories are now suggesting the matter of Scotland's time should be decided by Holyrood, having lost patience with Scottish MPs who have managed to block it thus far."

And so they should. Our daylight time is different. You can't see everything from London!!!
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 01:03:51

D'oh!, lets just build 'Hadrian's Wall' and be done with it!

NO! lets just change the language! at the Soo called Border!

How about changing the,,'Fuel Tax' North of the Border?

IF ONLY!

Back to the,..'MUPPET SHOW'! My Friend's unless we ,..

'Change Chanel'!
3

Conan the Librarian™,

29/06/2008 02:09:59
2
Charles, Chanel no 5?

I remember when they tried it back in the sixties, all the bairns got reflective armbands or sashes.
Two time zones, doesn't appear to be that bad an idea.
4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 02:13:49

Conan ~3,

I remember this to!

Was it not a disaster,?

And was changed back 'PDQ'!
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 02:15:02

Tink it was the 70s Conan, not the 60s.
6

Conan the Librarian™,

29/06/2008 02:16:54
5
I bow to your superior memory.
7

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 02:30:40

Conan ~6,

Its the,..'Folic Acid' taking! stops you from going,..

'Doolally' :D

Its not only for 'Pregnant Women' you know!

Our, 'Boy Wonder' has missed this concept, thus showing signs of 'Madness'

Don't end up like him, he cant,,'Tell the Time' or my age!

99pence at any supermarket for a months supply of the 'Folic' will keep you 'Fly'!

If you don't believe me,..'Google it'! :D

But this may take,.."Time"!
8

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 29/06/2008 02:56:58
It makes sense to me why should the SCOTTISH people run to the tune of london. Let's move on to Scandinavian or Northern EU time, after all we do live up North, LET'S GO FOR IT for our own comforts.
9

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 29/06/2008 06:56:28
Two time zones? Absurd! Summer time should stay all the year round.

Farmers have lights nowadays, and I don't think farmers should dictate to the rest of us. The ones I know couldn't care less about clock changes.

Fewer kids will die to and from school and even if we travel to work in the dark at least we will come home in daylight.

Those in the far North are stuffed whatever we do with the clocks.
10

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 29/06/2008 07:49:31
#9 "Fewer kids will die to and from school "

How do you work that out? We can have fewer die on the way to or the way from school, but not both. Changing the school starting/finishing times on a per school basis would surely be more flexible.

I think it's called Central European Time for a reason.
11

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 29/06/2008 08:02:00
We could always keep the time and change our daily routines by one hour. It is just a matter of which would be most convenient and cause less disruption.

12

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 29/06/2008 08:11:16
#10 Selgovae

Recent statistical studies suggest that coming home in the dark is more dangerous for kids than going to school thus. One reason is that kids may be taken to school, but come home in less structured ways (bus/friends/walk/etc). The neighbours' kids behave thus anyway. I dare say that other reasons obtain, also.
13

bus user,

edinburgh 29/06/2008 09:00:39
There is only so much daylight in winter whatever the clocks say. In Scotland, the sun rises later and sets later than in Southern England, but it's not a direct North-South sunrise line, more like SE-NW.
The argument in favour of the current arrangement has been supported in the past by the scottish agriculture and construction sectors because of the early starting times for those, i.e. in the dark. Safety has been the cited issue.
Another argument was the fact that the City is in the middle time zone between the Tokyo and Hong Kong stock exchanges and the New York Stock Exchange - we can do business with Asia at close of play and NY at the start of its day. Whether or not that's a real advantage and whether or not an hour would make a real difference, I don't know, but with current financial sector woes, it might be worth asking,
14

Upbeat,

29/06/2008 09:28:26
Another stupid article about a non existant problem.

Is there a rule that says that all schools must start work at 8 am, 8.30 am.... 9 am ? What has the clock time to do with a safety problem that exists because of lack of ambient light.

In some parts of Europe schools start work at 7.30 am and finish by 3 pm does this make the people of those countries bad people.

It does not matter what the clock says. If it is unsafe for schoolchildren to go to school in the dark school can always start half an hour or an hour later. If a farmer does not like to work in the dark he can always shift his feeding times by the number of minutes it takes for daylight to arrive.

The moment of getting out of bed of a morning is a matter of individual choice. Nothing says 7am - good, 9am - bad. Whether schools start work at 8 am or 9 am is a matter for local decision, which can easily be taken by school governors.... why ever not ?
15

Boy Wonder,

29/06/2008 09:41:31
Folic makes you go loopy ... look Chuckles Linskaill's posts!
16

Robbierunciman,

Romney Marsh 29/06/2008 10:05:42
agree with 'upbeat', there is no problem changing the time things start, worink on the same time zone as the rest of Europe has many adavtanges. The millions who travel to an from Europe already know how irritating the difference is. If this darkness issues is as serious as the nationalist whingers pretend - 9 to 5 as working hours is not written in stone - people can change their start and finish times. I think that you will find that Scandanavia is on the same time zone as the rest of Europe.
17

Upbeat,

29/06/2008 10:06:41
Addition to #15

If everybody used daylight effectively an hour less electrical power each day might be needed . If families with children got up or went to bed an hour earlier in relation to sunrise just think what the savings of energy would be !

Is the figure 10% of current consumption or is it more ? Anyone have any figures for this ?
18

Joe,

West Pilton Circus 29/06/2008 10:15:54
Scottish MP's blocking it so far? An independent Scotland would not have a voice in
Westminster..prepare to meet your doom..
19

Miss Pixie,

formerly of Dinleyhaughfoot Cottage, Roxburghshire 29/06/2008 11:23:57
This seasonal time thing is actually pointless. Farmers should just get up with the sun (or whatever) and get on with it. A short day is a short day. A long day is a long day. Moving forward one hour or backward one hour dosn't change anything!
20

Maurice,

Fife 29/06/2008 12:03:30
So it's called a time "ZONE". I was actually beginning to think that in Scotland it is called a time warp
21

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 29/06/2008 13:43:55
#12 Rulesbutnotrulers

I've seen such data too, but the reports don't usually indicate whether the accident rate is higher or lower in summer or winter. In other words, is it the kids' behavior or the level of darkness that is significant in the to/from difference.

The report below states that more accidents in Scotland involving children occur in June and September (beginning and end of the school year) when darkness is not an issue.

http://www.acpos.police.uk/News%20Items/News20-06-08.html
22

Professor22,

lochgelly 29/06/2008 13:54:44
Absolutey stupid and idiotic from the same posse as the flat earth society.

Its hard enough trying to organise conference calls and meetings throughout EMEA or Stateside.

Business Mogals will throw this out.
23

Seoras67,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 14:50:15
An honest debate on the (de)merits of this issue would be welcome rather than portraying it as a simple Scotland V England feud. First question to be asked, is this being proposed because it is in the best interests of the country (UK) or simply to have a go at the Scots? How would this affect people in the North of England eg Newcastle and in the far West of England in Cornwall and in West Wales? If we did change our clocks in the manner suggested it would be interesting to see what the Irish - North and South - thought of it. Chicago has a different time to New York; Adelaide from Sydney; Portugal from Spain and these places still seem to muddle on. However it could be argued that having the one time zone in the UK is one of the basics of a United Kingdom? Perhaps this is evidence that a certain group within the Conservative party have given up on the idea of the UK?
24

yoric,

29/06/2008 16:17:58
This is no more popular in Northern England than in Scotland.
It will be light till midnight in Summer and dark till mid day in Winter.

This has been talked about for years, the real reason?

To make it easier for a business man in the UK to talk to a business man on the Continent.
The only surprise given the amount of business done between London and the United States, that we don't adopt New York time.
25

,

29/06/2008 16:27:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 29/06/2008 18:35:23
#3 - Conan, watch what you're saying - the Sinn Fein/SNP tendency are stupid and bigoted enough to misinterpret your reference to 'sashes'. You'll be accused of incipient Unionism!
27

Schot,

29/06/2008 18:52:25
I suppose the concept of 'Scottish Summer Time' is a good thing. Will Greenwich Mean Time have to be replaced with Grangemouth Mean Time ?
28

Schot,

29/06/2008 18:55:08
ptdoug

Why on earth would you want to expose a Labour party mole ? And isn't that pejorative language implying undercover agents, isn't a better term 'whistle-blower' ?
29

Conan the Librarian™,

29/06/2008 20:49:51
27
Well, they were orange.

Quite possibly like you.
30

Finnking,

Lempäälä 29/06/2008 23:41:23
I wonder why Mr. Barnes isn't allowing comments on his articles about Wendy's departure, ahem.

Not biased in the slightest, Mr. Barnes, are you? LOL

A full year of supporting the Scottish New Labour party (run by London) and now with the party is total disarray, north and south of the border/time line(?) you now seem reluctant to read your customers' views. But here, on some bizarre piece, totally devoid of political veracity and wit but essentially anti-independence, you welcome comments. Care to comment?

Oh, how's the advertising revenue doing these days? Here's you, the Scotsman News' Political Editor, writing such drivel; a puerile piece that would normally be left to a minion. Times must be hard, aye?

Maybe, if the Scotsman actually dropped the pro-labour/pro-Unionist/anti-SNP propaganda the readership would return, advertising revenue would increase and you could have a minion to write 'silly season' reports.

Go back to being a proper newspaper, please.

31

Matt there,

somewhere 29/06/2008 23:45:10
Why can't idiots like Tim Yeo not just leave well alone?

We do not WANT to be on Central European Time, Yeo, you clot! Why? Someone send him a map pointing out that we are not IN Central Europe...
32

John PM,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 00:31:30
I don't see the problem. The Scotsman just seems to apply a 'London knows best' rule to absolutely everything. The fact is at the moment we have too much wasted daylight in the morning, it makes sense to make a change in this if it suits Scotland better.

We manage to trade with the EU so I'm pretty sure we could phone a business in England an hour earlier or later if required.
33

truthsleuth,

30/06/2008 00:32:39
Last time I was down on the farm the cows and chickens could not tell the time and responded to dawn and dusk.
Lets heve BST throughout the year its only troglodytes who oppose it and they are as usual the empty kettles but they make the most noise.

 

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