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Labour sleaze crisis intensifies

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Published Date: 19 April 2009
THE sleaze crisis enveloping Gordon Brown intensified last night amid damaging new revelations about his handling of the 'Smeargate' affair, alleged voting irregularities in a Labour candidate selection process, and the resignation from the party of a "sickened" former MP.
Scotland on Sunday understands that Foreign Secretary David Miliband and Justice Secretary Jack Straw both repeatedly warned the Prime Minister that the adviser responsible for last week's e-mail scandal was a troublemaker.

The fact that two of Brown's most senior Cabinet colleagues were concerned about the behaviour of Damian McBride long before he was forced to resign over the scurrilous e-mails raises yet more questions about the Prime Minister's judgment.

Labour was plunged into yet more controversy over the selection process for the safe Westminster seat of Erith and Thamesmead, London, when it emerged a ballot box had apparently been tampered with. And a former MP revealed she was quitting Labour in protest against an organisation she no longer recognised.

The problems for Labour were reflected in two polls last night. One of which showed that the Tories had extended their lead to 17 points. The other revealed that more than one-third of voters trust the Government less in the wake of the e-mail smears' affair.

Privately, Straw and Miliband suggested that Brown should ditch his adviser, who finally quit eight days ago after it emerged that he had sent scurrilous e-mails from a No 10 account containing smears about senior Tories' private lives.

Miliband was said to have been particularly vocal about McBride, having been the subject of his aggressive briefings last summer when there was widespread speculation that the Foreign Secretary was mounting a leadership challenge to Brown.

Both Secretaries of State expressed their views before and after McBride's move last October, when he stopped being a spokesman with day-to-day dealings with the press to take charge of strategic planning at Downing Street.

"They'd both told Brown time and again that he should get rid of him. This guy has been around for years and almost everyone else seemed to realise that he was bad news," a senior Labour source said.

Brown attempted to draw a line under the scandal last Thursday when he finally apologised about the e-mails, five days after they were published.

But the row over the tactics used by Brown's Downing Street office is expected to escalate tomorrow when his disgusted MPs raise the matter at a parliamentary party meeting.

Last night, Jimmy Hood, the veteran Labour MP for Clydesdale, said he would raise McBride's behaviour at the PLP's meeting. "To me this has just been appalling. It is where politics should not go and it is disgraceful that it has been done in Labour's name. It is the stuff of the gutter."

Stephen Ladyman, the MP for Thanet South and a former transport minister, said: "I would be surprised if something wasn't said about it because a lot of us feel we've been let down quite badly. Most of us have a great deal of respect for our opponents."

The anger has filtered through the party with one of Labour's longest serving members, Alice Mahon, a former MP for Halifax for 18 years, resigning from the party yesterday because she was "sickened" by McBride's e-mails.

Brian Wilson, a former Labour energy minister, condemned the tactic of sending innuendo through cyberspace in the hope that it would help Labour at the next election.

Writing in Scotland on Sunday today, Wilson said misguided advisers thought it was in the interests of the Government to control a website "through which would be disseminated a weird assortment of falsehoods, rumours and innuendoes about Tory politicians and their loved ones. It is a mindset which reflects paranoia of Nixonian proportions."

Labour was facing yet more sleaze allegations when the party called off a selection hustings yesterday after it was discovered that a ballot box had been tampered with.

Labour is to investigate claims of voting irregularities in a controversial candidate selection process. One of those standing is Georgia Gould, 22, the daughter of one of the architects of New Labour, Philip Gould. She is standing against seven other women shortlisted to represent the party in Erith and Thamesmead in south-east London.

Meanwhile, Ed Balls, the Schools Secretary, last night denied reports that he masterminded McBride's spin operation to undermine colleagues in order to advance his own career and claim the Labour leadership after the next General Election.

A spokesman for Balls said the allegations were "completely fabricated and malevolent nonsense without any foundation in fact".

The full article contains 771 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 April 2009 12:06 AM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 00:09:49
''completely fabricated and malevolent nonsense without any foundation in fact".''

Hoist by their own petard. The writing's on the wall for these dead men walking.
2

TheUnionisBritish,

19/04/2009 00:21:10
it may get worse for Labour as Guido Fawkes is to publish more details later today.
3

Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 00:27:23
The whole rotten government is in terminal meltdown and not a moment too soon!!!

Guido should be worth a read today!!

http://www.order-order.com/
4

hoblar,

19/04/2009 00:33:25
A guy who had the alleged aim to host a leadership challenge when Labour get their just desserts from the electorate is said to have, "masterminded" what is easily seen as a very very negative defining moment in the history of New Labour.

If I didn't know what exactly new Labour have become in Westminster particularly, (the opposition Scottish branch being largely ineffective beyond turning up at the Scottish Parliament) I'd have thought it was total balls personally.
5

Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 00:35:19
#5 Canis

He's on the thread about Scottish Oil talking his usual deranged drivel.
6

DROK,

Gate-gate 19/04/2009 00:42:45
Bloggergate
Sleazegate
GATEY-GATEY-GATE-GATE

the last-gate
bolshe-gate-vik smites all-gate
real-gate & imaginary-gate

hell to this
I'm off to the indy
where I can attach pictures to comments
[96 million to spend on bootlegs,
customs tooled up to intercept,
& armed, too - quiet weekend, really, innit-gate?
Can anyone else smell cordite? Not cheap auld-firm
handbags-at-20ft-pseudo-cordite,
the genuwhine art]
7

Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 00:50:34

As the London-centric, Edinburgh-inspired, novelist, Ian Rankin, keeps saying, "Brown is a Shakespearean tragedy."


8

For Scotlands Future,

Vote For The SNP 19/04/2009 01:00:22
#5
Come on, you know Wufus only comments on articles where he posts first.

"A spokesman for Balls said the allegations were "completely fabricated and malevolent nonsense without any foundation in fact"

Well, that should be quite familiar to the people in Downing Street.

Someone should tell Mr Balls that this report didn't come from a Labour source.
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19/04/2009 01:04:24
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 01:06:01

I wonder if Labour knew the size of the sewer they were stepping into?


11

Brianwci,

19/04/2009 01:06:25
These poll results taken from the Labour Rose website:

Tories 19% ahead - thanks Damien and Derek

BPIX poll for the Mail on Sunday:

Tories 45% (+4)
Labour 26% (-8)
LibDems ?

Sunday Telegraph poll:

Tories 43% (-1)
Labour 26% (-5)
LibDem 21% (+3)


Absolutely dreadful news for London Labour. I wonder if there will be a similar Scottish Poll to show us the SNP's position in the polls after its excellent Spring Conference with crowds twice the size of Labour's recent Conference.
12

Edward,

19/04/2009 01:54:11
As of today, Labour are SUNK!
This paper is nowhere near the mark
The Times reports that Ed Balls was heavily involved in the smear campaign.
Labour’s General Secretary Ray Collins is involved
Unite press officer Andrew Dodgshon is implicated as is
political journalist Kevin Maguire.

In addition there is Charlie Whelan,one of Gordon Brown’s closest friends and his former chief spin doctor, was described last night by a Labour insider as the Prime Minister’s “unofficial Mr Fix-It”.
All roads lead to Gordon Brown
Brown was considered to know all about the Red Rag website as far back as November 16th 2008

If anyone still thinks Labour are electable, I would suggest getting medical attention and volentary sectioning!
13

Edward,

19/04/2009 02:10:56
'Business Secretary Lord Mandelson accused Mr Brown of deceiving him when he discovered the Prime Minister had let Schools Secretary Mr Balls set up a secret ‘spin operation’ inside No10'
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1171828/You-deceived-Mandelsons-rages-Brown-Balls-secret-spin-cabal.html
14

Fred Leeson,

edinburgh 19/04/2009 02:19:47
#14 Ed
At least the SoS is reporting the story. Plus a positive SNP story elsewhere in the paper. Might even buy SoS today for the first time in a while !
BBC Pravda are remaining loyal to their Dear Leader though. Studiously avoiding 'smeargate' and headlining on what the Bolivian President might have said about Obama. Ten minutes on this important news before going to Iran and reporting on an American reporter being jailed.
I wouldn't mind if I didn't have to pay for a tv licence.
15

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19/04/2009 02:37:50
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Ananurhing,

19/04/2009 06:18:30
Looks like a good day to bury New Labour!

Both camps fighting like ferrets in a sack. More Broonites mired in Smeargate sleaze. Mandy blowing off at Broon (makes a change from Brazilians). Alice Mahon resigning in disgust. More ballot box fraud. More Scottish resources bailing out a hamstrung Chancellor, and even the old West Highland Free Press unionist, Brian Wilson accusing Broon's camp of suffering from "paranoia of Nixonian proportions"

If all that's left in Nulab's defence is the likes of Rufus and Ewan, the game's a bogey methinks!
17

donald,

glasgow 19/04/2009 07:03:20
So what's 's new? Gerremout!
18

Marian,

19/04/2009 07:14:46
The vast majority of UK political correspondents and reporters are failing us because they don't really report anymore, they just repeat. Whether its a smear here or there, or just a press release that has been taken at face value without a critical eye added. Deadlines, copy, and filling column inches take precedent over seeking out the truth. The parliamentary system has been corrupted by the explicit and implicit deals done between the New Labour government and journalists over access to important stories. It's truly an appalling undemocratic state of affairs for the UK to be in.
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19/04/2009 07:16:00
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 07:35:52
#13 Brianwci - "I wonder if there will be a similar Scottish Poll to show us the SNP's position in the polls after its excellent Spring Conference with crowds twice the size of Labour's recent Conference."

It's been refreshing to see the SNP get on with doing their best to keep Scotland on track. They have not been sidetracked by the unravelling of Labour's sordid past and present.

I hope a whole new section of the population now realises the great future we could build as an independent nation. I hope they find the guts to say 'That's enough'. Scotland won't get there without more people turning their backs on the incompetent and sleaze-ridden Laboury/Tory Westminster shenanigans.
21

Phil C,

19/04/2009 07:37:34
#25

Yes there is- ANYONE but Labour!
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19/04/2009 07:44:52
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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 07:47:24
I think Comrade Broon might get dumped in the next few weeks by his 'friends and colleagues' who are sh!tting themselves about their places at the trough.

They are a party without a single scruple, moral or belief in anything but they're own importance and greed.

Lets have an election and put them down like you would a rabid dog!

No quotes from His Lardship, Lard Foolkes???
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19/04/2009 07:48:30
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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 07:48:43
#28,

The SNP led by Alex Salmond and his first class team who put Scotland FIRST.
26

Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 07:51:21
There is a very good article written by Iain Macwhirter in the Herald. Well worth a read.

http://tinyurl.com/d64v6h
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19/04/2009 07:52:49
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19/04/2009 07:54:55
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19/04/2009 07:55:43
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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 07:59:56
#33

I'm Scottish and live in Scotland and I am a member of the SNP and vote for them.

I don't consider myself british.

I do feel sorry for the English electorate, who are decent people, who don't have the luxury of having the SNP to vote for.

Are you saying you would vote New Labour Sleaze in an election??
Are you mad??
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19/04/2009 08:05:08
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 08:09:27
#28 BlogtisticTram

The obvious alternative in Scotland is the SNP, if you can take your onionist hat off long enough to see the obvious.

The glaring alternative at Westminster are the Tories, unless you are still stuck in an anti-Thatcher time warp.

The Libdems would probably make a decent fist of things.

Then there are a few others who would need to dramatically build on their support. All would be better than Labour. The critical thing in all this is that Labour should never again be anywhere near the levers of power!
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John Cameron,

St Andrews 19/04/2009 08:10:13
ZANU Labour has now descended into a vortex of vicious smears, spin, recrimination and vendetta. For twelve years El Gordo has been on an insanely reckless spree of total prodigality. The hopes that this deluded, damaged man, blind to the realities of the world, will suddenly be able to lead us out of this Gothic horror story are surely forlorn. Viewed from every perspective, a consensus is emerging that this Government is exhausted and that Brown has lost the plot. Narcissism has been their defining characteristic since 1997. The narrative was always about ZANU Labour and never about the country. We are fast approaching the most critical Budget since 1945. The markets and the international community are watching. It is imperative they should be reassured that Britain has a credible road map to recovery. Sadly, they are more likely to be moved to derision by yet another Gordon Brown public relations stunt laced with all the usual candy-floss initiatives. I have no doubt what we will get is the usual Brownian Budget polluted with gimmicks, spin and all the fiscal gesture politics we have seen too often in the past. The British Government under its present leadership has no realistic answer to recession. It will simply continue to sleep walk into the waiting room of the IMF benefits office.
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19/04/2009 08:11:30
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19/04/2009 08:12:41
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 08:13:19
#40 I kinda knew you'd say that. All are credible alternatives. OK?

At Westminster, the Tories are the alternative that is going to happen. Get used to it!
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19/04/2009 08:13:59
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bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 19/04/2009 08:14:18
#42

Who cares?
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19/04/2009 08:15:01
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19/04/2009 08:15:30
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 08:17:05
#43 As I suggested, you're stuck in an anti-Thatcher time warp. Of course the Tories are credible down south.


42

Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 08:17:56
#44

You're right there.

Vote SNP, the ONLY party for ALL the people of SCOTLAND
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19/04/2009 08:18:40
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19/04/2009 08:19:51
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Whopitt,

Edinburgh 19/04/2009 08:21:01
Cometh the hour, cometh the man.

I moved to the US at the beginning of 2006, in the depths of the Bush administration. It felt like the end of empire, and there wasn't a credible alternative. Who would have thought that there would have been a showdown between Obama, Clinton and McCain.

Labour are having their Nero moment. Time for them to go and let another bunch of gits in.

The Scottish Prayer Book has a nice turn of phrase when it ask that we be "quietly governed".
46

Phil C,

19/04/2009 08:22:05
#49 I see the Tories as ten times more credible than Labour at Westminster. I also see the SNP as the natural party in Scotland. Labour are a liability to everyone! Surely even you will see that soon.
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19/04/2009 08:22:35
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19/04/2009 08:23:21
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19/04/2009 08:27:11
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The Tin Man,

19/04/2009 08:27:44
Oh well... another year or two until we have something like 'the Thatcher New Tory Sleaze 'n' Corruption Party' in power. Get your soundbites ready now....
51

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19/04/2009 08:29:21
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 08:30:45
#57 The greatest achievement since SNP came to power is the start of common sense consensus government in Scotland, despite Labour's sulk!
53

Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 08:31:07
#59 Canis,

Best to ignore the troll.

He's not worth the effort.

Lets concentrate on the latest scandals to hit the Sleaze Party!

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19/04/2009 08:31:22
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19/04/2009 08:32:14
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19/04/2009 08:34:04
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19/04/2009 08:36:58
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Ananurhing,

19/04/2009 08:37:17
#60 Blog

You see no viable alternative to Labour. You're not advocating Labour. Come on then, share your vision with us. What do you see as the way forward? What would you support?
59

Phil C,

19/04/2009 08:44:13
#69 Blagtistic

Here's a few things the SNP have acheived.....

Freezing Council Tax
Introducing plans for a Local Income Tax System based on ABILITY TO PAY
Local Government Agreement giving Greater Accountability
Forth & Tay Bridge Tolls Scrapped
Making a decision on the New Forth Road Bridge
More Police on the Street
Record Funds to cap Public Transport Fare
Carbon Index on Future Budgets
New Drugs Rehabilitation Bill
Cutting Small Business Rates
New Money for Community Climate Challenge Fund
Extra Captial Spending for Edinburgh
New Health Screening Programmes
Phasing out prescription charges
Reducing hospital waiting times
Tackling Poverty Fund of £145m.
Dealing with Alcohol Misuse with tough new measures
Dealing with Smoking, Obesity & Heath in Scotland's Young
Promoting Europe's Largest Wind Farms & New Hydrogen Plant
Giving the go-ahead for Scotland first commercial Tidal project.
Increasing Energy Efficiency Funds
Reduced class sizes in Early Years
50% more nursery places for 3-4 Year Olds
Extending Free School Meals Pilot
Universities and Colleges Investment of £1.7bn
New Partnerhsip between Universities & Government
Improved Rail Links, Giving the Go Ahead for the Borders Railway
Dualling Sections of the A9
Increasing Social Housing through HomeSTAKE
Control over Fisheries Conservation Measures
Supporting the Scottish Fishing Industry with Action Plan & Funding
Extending NHS Screening Programs for Men
Setting up the Scottish Futures Trust
Reducing Classes for P1-2 to 18
Introducing PiP's, saving Buyers £7M annually
Reforming Health Boards
Introducing tighter Smoking Advertisement Rules

The SNP manifesto contained some policies which have not been delivered yet. Keep the faith! Some are already making progress and others are waiting on the back burner.

You may have noticed that not enough people voted SNP to give them real power at Holyrood. I can't see many voting Labour next time (though some folk are incredibl
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19/04/2009 08:44:28
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 08:45:44
#79.........You may have noticed that not enough people voted SNP to give them real power at Holyrood. I can't see many voting Labour next time (though some folk are incredibly stubborn!), or continuing to support our decrepit little union, so hopefully some switchers will boost SNP numbers.

You may have noticed a global financial meltdown which was exacerbated in Scotland by Labour's incompetence. Purse strings tightened. Plans have been rethought. All the time common sense and focus were watchwords.

You may have noticed that a big majority continues to support a fairer system than Council Tax, based on income. This policy is still alive, and will be delivered when more of the people vote for it again.
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19/04/2009 08:45:45
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19/04/2009 08:47:56
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 08:49:08
#82 Have a nice day, whatever planet you're on!
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Whopitt,

19/04/2009 08:50:43
Labour is not credible. On top of Brown's direct personal responsibility for the current mess we have:(in no particular order)

1.Ballot tampering in Labour contested by Gould's 22 year old daughter using postal votes.
2.Benn's 17 year old granddaughter selected as PPC.
3.Dodgy Tomlinson post mortem exposed.
4.Police officer facing manslaughter charge.
5.Daimien Green raid allegations on Police trawling private email to gather info on Shami Chakrabarti during Government directed spurious raid on MP’s office in PoW.
6.Nurse struck off for exposing extreme neglet and abuse of elderly patients in NHS hospital.
7.Questions still being asked about missing register and inexplicable increase in postal votes in Glenrothers by-election.
8.Labour MP for Edinburgh South has photos taken of him shagging in his office in the PoW, and then tries (unsuccessfully) to gag NOTW.
9.PM’s special advisor, Government Minister and General Secretary of Labour Party found attempting to smear opposition MP’s and their families.
10.Brown (and others) 3 house scam.
11.Labour expense claim abuse(bath plug, porn movies etc).

Labour response:

1.£5 grand to buy a car in 2011 that hasn't been built yet.
2.More smears

Cameron is going to be next PM. SNP will increase share of vote in Scotland. Labour is going to struggle to remain party of opposition in UK and Scottish parliaments.

Tories, LibDem and SNP are all credible alternatives to Labour.

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19/04/2009 08:53:09
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19/04/2009 08:53:55
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19/04/2009 08:54:45
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Whopitt,

19/04/2009 08:59:16
Blogtastic 88

A Tory UK govt and a SNP Scottish Govt.

What are you suggesting - that we have no credible alternative so we should stick with labour?
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19/04/2009 08:59:22
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19/04/2009 09:02:22
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19/04/2009 09:03:46
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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 09:06:50
Here's a quick list of corrupt New Labour Sleaze worthies!

Mandelson (twice)
Blunkett (twice)
Hain
Red Wendy
Foolkes
Lord Watson
Mr & Mrs Jacqui Smith
Martin
David Marshall
Eric Joyce
Harriet Harperson
Robinson
John McVicar
Blair
Vaz
Prescott
Cunningham
McLeish
Straw
Irvine
Meacher
Byers


Feel free to add to it. There are heaps I've missed!!!
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GM,

19/04/2009 09:07:12
@89

you keep asking that question...

Do you *really* want an answer to it?
I will happily provide one, but I'm not sure I should be making you look stupid as you are doing a fine job yourself.
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Ananurhing,

19/04/2009 09:08:39
#80 Blog

I agree with everything you say, apart from the last bit. Come on. I'm sure you're being coy. Who's going to get your X? Even if it's way out there, there must be some scenario you want to see happen.

Otherwise you're a party sponsored troll, or a nihilist. Both of which mean SFA to the rest of us!
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19/04/2009 09:10:06
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GM,

19/04/2009 09:14:34
@92

yes...

You see, you think you are being smarter and better by asking a stupid question.

In the UK government there are only 2 real alternatives - Labour and Tory.

I suggest you do a bit of reading and find out that 'democracy' (partly) is a process that ensures in a system like we have in the UK (2 parties see above) that when one party finds itself deep in the mire as Labour are, then the other party simply needs to point out the stuff it finds objectionable about their actions to 'appear' to be the credible alternative.

Hence, to answer you... the Tories ARE the credibel alternative at the moment.

Lets be truthful here, (which might come as a shock to a Labour stooge like you)... we all know the Tories will enter office on a white chariot of promises to end corruption but within 10 years we will have half a dozen share dealing/sex scandals/expenses fiddling (delete any or none as appropriate) politicians whilst the country plods on as usual.



Your contribution so far on this thread, although not explicitly supporting Labour, clearly demonstrates a contentment and probable happiness to put up with them at any cost. I don't think you are gauging the mood across the country and even the media tide is turning.
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19/04/2009 09:14:38
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19/04/2009 09:16:41
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TWC,

exLabour 19/04/2009 09:17:25
With the discovery of the tampering in postal votes should the police investigate the Glenrothes postal vot situation. A Labour internal election is called off but national election result goes without investigation.
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19/04/2009 09:18:45
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The Tin Man,

19/04/2009 09:19:35
#89 Blog

The exec are claiming that 46 policies have been achieved. Which policies they are refering to is imformation that has not been released to the general public. However, many of them will no-doubt be every bit as underwhelming as McConnel's.

Strangely, there main achievement, the council tax freeze, was never brought before a party conference, was not included in any manifesto, and was not discussed with the electorate, with parliament, or voted for.

Even the Iraq war had more democratic strutiny.
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19/04/2009 09:20:50
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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 09:21:20
Has anyone heard how David Marshall, ex MP for Glasgow East is getting on??

Has his £750,000 stash been affected by the credit crunch??

Has he taken up his pension??

Did he sell his constituency office when he retired??
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The Tin Man,

19/04/2009 09:22:03
I see Ed Balls is getting it in the neck now....
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 09:22:05
Good Morning Blogtastic do you choose to change your name all the time or does the paper do that for you by banning you ? It must be weird having so many sign-ins if you choose it.

No offence but I think you have got things ass-over-elbow. If we are going to find some competent politicians to sort out the mess we are in we need to change the political system first.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 09:26:32
102 We are in the quite concerning position where no crime for the Police to investigate occurs unless the Electoral Commission say it occurs. The Police and Fiscal's Office don't decide that. From past conduct the Electoral Commission who report to the Speaker of the House of Commons, hardly known for probity himself, are prone to turning a very blind eye.
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19/04/2009 09:29:04
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19/04/2009 09:31:17
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GM,

19/04/2009 09:33:30
Reducing Prescritpion Charges with a view to ending them
Maintaining void relief on empty business properties (Westminster introduced full rates on empty properties in 2008)
Introducing small business bonus scheme where smaller entrepeneurs can claim 100% rates releif
Scrapping All bridge toll charges
Scrapping parking charges at hospitals (excluding those that the labour set up PFI schemes simply were going to be too costly to do)
Saving A&E services
Freezing Council Tax for 2 years
Ensuring Edinburgh tram scheme would not cost the Scottish Government a penny over budget (compare with Labours build of the scottish parliament project)
Ending student fees
Funding for 300 extra teachers and 250 more teacher training places
£25m boost for social/council housing
£20m funding boost for colleges and universities
Exceeds promise to have 1000 extra police
Takes action in tackling Scotland's alcohol problem (agree or disagree its better than doing nothing a la labour for 8 years)
Protection for rural schools
Opposition to national ID scheme


and you know what, I could go on and on but I hope you get the gist.

They are a minority government and still they have achieved more than Labour did in 8 years.

And the final thing to consider is that the SNP always have Scotland's interests first and foremost and that is what is attractive about them right now.

One of the things you Labour apologists seem to forget is that in all likelihood (and I for one would expect it) if Scotland were independent, then a STRONG labour, libdem and tory party in SCOTLAND could make great headway. Hey, we might even end up with a real 4 (or more) party system, all putting Scotland's interests first!
91

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 19/04/2009 09:34:01
#104 Blog

As far as Westminster is concerned the choice is between the Labourtories and the other Tories.

Tweedledee or Tweedledum.

Neither of them is less incredible than the other.

Brown is toast, just look at today’s English opinion polls.
It would be no surprise if the Labourtories bin him before the next election, and replace him with one of their many Cameron clones.

Mired in sleaze, corruption, spin and authoritarian malpractice, Labour have run their course and their time is up.

Fortunately we have an alternative in Scotland.
92

Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 09:34:15
I hope John McVicar, New Labour Sleaze activist and former GHA member is managing during this depression.

McVicar was sacked as a board member for claiming £15,000 in benefits he wasn't entitled to.

Luckily for him he wasn't prosecuted.
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19/04/2009 09:34:21
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19/04/2009 09:35:03
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The Tin Man,

19/04/2009 09:35:14
If anyone is intrested on the Time's 10th aniversary devolution report:

http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/sunday_times/sundaytimes190409.pdf
96

Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 09:35:22
109

1/ W*nkersA
2/ W*nkersB, or
3/ W*nkersC

I largely agree with you. Possibly good people mixed up in the system, but the system is degraded and encourages careerism and venality.

I think the Scotsman definitely have a policy of banning people for unacceptable political opinion. They don't seem to care about lies and libel at all.
97

GM,

19/04/2009 09:38:12
@100

and you conveniently fail to offer any response to the substantive content of my post. Which is kind of typical of the usual labour trolls here unfortunately.

If you are not a labour apologist, then my post still stands - your contribution in this thread up to about 100 certainly indicates a willingness to put up with them at all costs.

So,
do you now accept at my 98 that your question was in fact 'loaded' and somewhat stupid. In a 2 party system, the opposition are always the credible alternative in a democracy.
98

Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 09:39:09
114 Yes they have investigated and all is well, apparently. I don't actually agree with the majority view on this, it was an SNP Council who ran the election, and a Court who report to the Scottish Government who signed receipt of the electoral register. I tend to think it was a SNAFU. But the reaction to the whole thing illustrates the lack of faith that people, not just SNP supporters, have in politics.
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19/04/2009 09:39:36
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GM,

19/04/2009 09:41:19
@115

Someone help me out here - my mind has gone blank but who is the poster who regularly fills a thread with questions and when you mention crimes resorts to 'are the police aware'?

remind me please because his new moniker is certainly BlogtasticExpress

Was it Adamslie?
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19/04/2009 09:42:20
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GM,

19/04/2009 09:42:47
@120

yup,
nice to have ripped you up mate. If that's the best you've got I'll leave it for another thread to embarrass you again.

Gotta go - train to catch!
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19/04/2009 09:43:02
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TWC,

exLabour 19/04/2009 09:43:46
111 GM,

Their biggest achievement was getting rid of a useless Labour Government who have watched Scotland deteriorate since the 50s while our resources were squandered in the name of political clout.

The UK is now trying to do the same thing but Brown won't go.

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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 09:44:15
122 No, I may have a different opinion to TWC but in my experience he never talks bolleaux.
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Ananurhing,

19/04/2009 09:45:23
#99 Blogtastic

So you're inclined towards an independent Scotland, but not the SNP.
Would you consider doing as I do, and voting tactically for the SNP to acheive independence? Surely once that's no longer a partisan issue, Scottish politics can open up, and perhaps attract more talent.
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Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 19/04/2009 09:45:52
#61 "Oh well... another year or two until we have something like 'the Thatcher New Tory Sleaze 'n' Corruption Party' in power."

We already do. Nothing changed in 1997 except the colour of the ties.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 09:48:54
128 - Exactly ! We are not voting for who will run our country, we are voting in favour of running it ourselves.
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Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 19/04/2009 09:50:35
Oh, and the credible, sensible Westminster alternative to Labour would be a multi-party coalition in a hung parliament, so that NOBODY can ride roughshod over the wishes of 65% of the electorate. Given the fragility of the Tories and the enormous crookedness of the electoral system and boundaries, it's still a highly plausible outcome, and it'd be the best thing to happen to this country since 1946.
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The Tin Man,

19/04/2009 09:50:46
#130 Canis

I look forward to reading the SNP's chief advisor's report. I am sure it would be based on the same facts.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 09:51:19
131 No offence again Blog but look at my post at 108. I don't think it was investigated properly. My opinion that it was a SNAFU is entirely subjective.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 09:56:04
139 You are dissembling now. An investigation is not really investigative if there is a suspicion the investigators have decided the outcome before they start. Both TWC's point and mine are equally valid, although neither one of us knows the truth.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 09:57:00
141 Something naturally always f@cks up.
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morris,

Edinburgh 19/04/2009 09:58:01
Anyone who genuinely believes that there is no credible alternative (Westminster) government which can be elected,by his own admission, must acknowledge that the answer must then become remove WESTMINSTER (since you have already acknowledged that no other possibility exists)!THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE!
Those who have called for the resignation of the Education Minister should be aware of a number of inconsistencies in their thinking!
1)The pupil teacher ratio is the same as under LABOUR/LIBERAL !(Actually its slightly better in a few local authority areas)
That blows any request for her replacement into numpty land right away!

2) Local Authorities have been given adequate funding and THEY decide how they spend it.The education budget allocation by each council is what you should be looking at!They are responsible.

3)We have a minority government and what the SNP does has at least as much to do with the opposition who outnumber them, as it does the party of government!
Perhaps they did not do arithmetic at your primary school or you were off that day?
This government are achieving more in 2 years, as a minority government,than the previous 9administration managed in 8 years with absolute control.

Unionists may not like the facts,but they are nevertheless facts and cannot be changed(or can they,I wouldn't put anything past the slime party)
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TWC,

exLabour 19/04/2009 10:00:55
138 BlogtasticExpress,

"Who will pay for the disproportionate of lazy bassas who cant work\wont work when we close the English purse"?

England will have to find money somewhere else, they will still have 20% of the oil and gas.
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19/04/2009 10:03:10
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:05:00
147 Well sorry to labour (no pun intended) the point but the reality is that it was a Scottish election, there are valid questions to be asked, but the people responsible for regulating elections have the final say and report to Westminster. That is rubbish. They should report to Holyrood. The SNP have requested that but it was rejected out of hand.

People, for good reason, have no faith in the electoral commission. That is why although I don't think personally there was criminal behaviour involved, I can very well understand why others might. There is no credible way to demonstrate there wasn't. So we are left with opinions.
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The Tin Man,

19/04/2009 10:06:54
#142 Canes

Indeed. It is pretty damning for all three of the main Holyrood partys, and of the system itself, but particulary so for Labour, and the Labour / Lib Dem execs.

Basically, damning populist pandering, and pandering to the existing State system, rather than effective policy-making.
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Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 19/04/2009 10:08:08
#150 "Who will pay for the disproportionate of lazy bassas who cant work\wont work when we close the English purse?"

Nobody will pay for them, because they're a fabrication of the hysterical Middle England press. There are currently 2m people unemployed, soon to be 3m. There are allegedly 1m fit people on incapacity benefits. That's 4m. There are 400,000 vacant jobs according to the Office of National Statistics, a number which includes part-time positions and is falling at a horrifying rate (down 30% in the last six months).

People aren't working because there aren't anything remotely like enough jobs for them to do. Just because the press occasionally picks out half-a-dozen spongers doesn't mean there's an epidemic, whether in Scotland or the entire UK.
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Grant,

Edinburgh, Scotland 19/04/2009 10:08:38
The problem is - and Unionists know this - is that if Labour go down (in electoral terms) and become a shadow of their former selves (probably riven by internal infighting) then no-one will take any notice of them - even in Scotland. The more important point is that the fortunes of the Union are very much dependent on the fortunes of the Labour Party in Scotland.

If Labour had suggested independence at any point in the last 40 years, I think we could all agree that Scotland would be independent right now. If Labour have no means of life support - either at Westminster or Holyrood - and no visible path back into power (as is likely after the next set of election) then the fortunes of the Union will take a significant battering.
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Grant,

Edinburgh. Scotland 19/04/2009 10:11:10
#150 Perhaps we should also point out that levels of "laziness" are higher in England than in Scotland when we look at the data on economic activity rates. Unemployment is also 20% higher in England.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:12:00
154 It is hilarious how people work themselves up into a frenzy about ''benefit scroungers''. The sums involved in dispensing benefits to genuine claimants dwarf in comparison to the trillions involved in bailing out the banks. The sums involved in benefit fraud dwarf even more when compared to tax evasion. Why people choose to reserve their anger for poor people and completely ignore the rich and very often parasitical people living a life of luxury at others expense is truly bizarre.
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morris,

edinburgh 19/04/2009 10:13:15
148
I have already said that I agree that there is no credible government possible at Westminster and SO HAVE YOU!

That means we (in Scotland) go for a non WESTMINSTER government.

If you think that the only place its possible to govern from is Westminster ,then your thinking is not blinkered ITS BLIND!
The economics of an independent Scotland are sound, and even senior Tories agree with that!They don't want Scotland to leave but unlike Labour they acknowledge of course that she could and would fare better as an independent nation. Please note I am quoting John Biffen, who admitted on a televised broadcast that he wanted Scotland in the UK because his job was to represent his constituents and England benefited from her inclusion,but had he been a Scot,he would not have been a member of the Conservative Party,since Scotland benefited from secession.HE hinted that he might even have become an SNP member. He certainly acknowledged the strength of their claim.
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Grant,

19/04/2009 10:15:36
#159 May be so, but overall, for Scotland, the burden is far less than in England.

There's Glasgow, in Scotland, but economic inactivity there is comparable to a whole tranche of English cities - Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, Bradford, London, Newcastle etc.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:15:38
157 Sorry to burst your stereotyping labelling of people bubble but Castlemilk and Drumchapel are no longer one tenure schemes. There are swathes of owner-occupiers and new build private schemes all over plus a high concentration of retired people. So you really can't draw conclusions from the figure you asked for.

There are I think too many people in Glasgow on benefits. That is a legacy of Thatcherism. But you won't resolve that by blaming people.
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19/04/2009 10:15:56
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brownlie,

19/04/2009 10:16:12
148 Blogtastic

Congrats on your new and modest moniker. There is, of course, a credible and achievable alternative to Westminister Government.
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Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 19/04/2009 10:17:16
James Kier Hardie, the founder of the Independent Labour Party, and Aneurin Bevan, the great Welsh Labour politician, must be birling in their graves!

Not only has Gordon Brown lost his "moral compass" but so also has the modern Labour Party?
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19/04/2009 10:17:18
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bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 19/04/2009 10:19:06
#157 Blog (or whatever your name used to be).

Castlemilk, Drumchapel, Easterhouse et al, with their poor housing, low education attainments, poor health statistics and high unemployment levels are classic examples of our legacy from the Union.

Dividend, what dividend?
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19/04/2009 10:19:21
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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 10:19:32
168

Are you a BNP troll??

You're beginning to sound like one!
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:21:13
165 You are a master at avoidance. Slow down. Respond to the points made to you. Otherwise people will just assume you are a Johnston Press troll employed to generate posts.
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19/04/2009 10:21:25
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brownlie,

19/04/2009 10:22:12
167

Are you really as obtuse as your posting would suggest?
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Grant,

Edinburgh, Scotland 19/04/2009 10:23:01
I quite agree that the "English Purse" cannot afford all those on incapacity in the likes of London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Bradford, Liverpool etc. In fact, these days, the English purse cannot afford much (anything) given that over 80% of the putatative UK deficit of c £180Billion comes from England (must be all that economic inactivity there :-)
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19/04/2009 10:23:08
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:24:07
176 You haven't handled any of the serious points made to you.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:26:39
180 Is it the pantomime season ?
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TWC,

exLabour 19/04/2009 10:27:16
BlogtasticExpress,
Who will pay for the disproportionate of lazy bassas in Scotland who cant work\wont work when we close the English purse?

We will pay as we do today

Hi OBs
when I said investigation I meant into the accuracy of the postal vote not what happened to the record, I don't think the Voters were revisited either as a statistical sample or the complete population. The point being that the confidence in the voting system copuld be confirmed easily bu wasn't.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:31:15
182 Yes exactly TWC I agree with you 100% it can't be confirmed and no one has any faith in the so called investigation to find out what happened.

183 Yes I have isn't really an answer is it. That's followed by no you haven't and then they're behind you. Slow down and respond to the intelligent questions you have been asked.
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19/04/2009 10:34:06
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brownlie,

19/04/2009 10:34:09
179

Can I suggest that you read postings from others before posting yourself - can I refer you to the posting by Morris at 160 where he gives the "secret" away. Perhaps it might also be beneficial to closely examine your own postings as well as you quite clearly at 148 asked if there was an alternative to Westminster Government - you did not say an alternative Westminister Government.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:36:13
187 On the contrary every post you have made has been answered. I can only asume you didn't like the answers which is why you are posting like a maniac instead of engaging in debate.
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19/04/2009 10:36:39
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19/04/2009 10:39:31
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 10:39:38
from 100 adult males aged 18 - 65 on a major Glasgow Housing estate (such as Castlemilk, Drumchapel) how many are working full time? (Blogtasticdick)

Don't you mean, how many own a computer and a beer stained Tee-shirt and spend their Sunday besmirching the people of Scotland?

The answer is probably, one - you.

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19/04/2009 10:40:37
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:40:55
190 You are obviously an extremely blinkered person. You have been advised what people think is meaningful and a genuine credible alternative to the political status quo. If you choose to ignore that you can hardly blame us.
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19/04/2009 10:41:16
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19/04/2009 10:42:47
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:45:17
196 For goodness sake get away from this Tory-v-Labour nonsense. They will be past tense in an independent Scotland. That's the point.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:51:06
200 What planet are you posting from dear ? I hate the Tories.
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19/04/2009 10:52:03
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:52:35
202 He's making it up and his homophobic cheap shot at Purcell is unworthy of any serious poster.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 10:58:37
Time to go hom time you did. You are obviously some kind of sectarian weirdo.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 11:02:35
218 You are the odious one bringing religion and personal sexual behaviour into politics. It isn't relevant.
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mike3,

19/04/2009 11:05:02
Shock, horror. Labour linked to postal voting scandal in choice of candidate! Didn't a judge make comments along the lines of banana republic behaviour in the postal voting system partly used to get a chosen candidate elected for Westminster? Once at Westminster of course then the sky's the limit in advancement without further election at all.
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morris,

edinburgh 19/04/2009 11:06:00
203 Its certainly parallel to the one you are from !
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Hugh Roscombe,

19/04/2009 11:20:24
Blogtastic is our "daily change of moniker" guy. He supports the BNP.
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 11:21:28

Oi! When it says - "Laybor sleeeeze intensifies - does tha' mean it, you know it frobs?

Just askin, like.

Blogtasticdick.




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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 11:24:29
Whatever happened to that UKIP moron that used to post here??

Has he switched to the BNP??
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19/04/2009 11:30:13
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The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 19/04/2009 11:30:59
Sleazegate II - www.order-order.com - will be interesting.

Even their own ardent supporters wonder where El Gordo is coming from.
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19/04/2009 11:33:44
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bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 19/04/2009 11:36:28
“Labour sleaze crisis intensifies”



It would appear as if the sleaze apologists on this thread are trying to divert attention away from the content of the article above.

“Labourtories go back to your constituencies and prepare for oblivion.”
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Hugh Roscombe,

19/04/2009 11:36:28
246

Managed Guido's site but I can't access Nationwide Building Society.
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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 11:40:07
#245, Canis,

Of course our very own grand master (bater)!

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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 11:40:18
I can't get guido's site loaded this morning, any news? (Canis)

More revelations about Labour's general secretary, Ray Collins, chairing a meeting to set up Red Rag. And he claims Collins knew about Red Rag over four months ago.

Fawkes also claims the latest discovered e-mail proves the attempt to create a formal smear machine was not a "minor abberation" "cooked up by a couple of renegades."





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19/04/2009 11:42:58
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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 11:48:27
One thing I find starange is the number of union members who allow their unions to pay political donations to the Sleaze Party.

Its easy to opt out.

http://tinyurl.com/5dlenl
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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 11:55:22
#246 Canis

Maybe the Sleaze Party in conjunction with the Met, MI5, MI6 and AM2 are blocking Guido's site!!!
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GM,

19/04/2009 11:58:23
@252

ironic?

how about your constant and persistent attempt to spoil this thread with one liners and loaded questions whilst at the same time, avoiding reference to any content on the thread which provides answers...

whats also ironic is that you gave the game away at 150 when you so aptly stated -
"when WE close the English purses"

so who is this 'we'?


Also, you have cut and pasted the same questions time and again, and also stated that you do read other's posts and yet you seem to have let yourself down at 127 when you stated that I never got around to the list of achievements... didn't you actually read my post at 111 or PhilC's at 79?

no?

you just seemed to skip it all and keep merrily posting your 1 line trolling nonsense.

You do your cause more harm than good - Even real Labour supporters are sick of these kinds od tactics.
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brownlie,

19/04/2009 12:00:53
254 bombastic

Must be getting near time for your traditional rant?
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GM,

19/04/2009 12:01:12
Adamslie (previously banned under multiple numbered monikers)is back with his usual contribution...

Well done - more cause for folks to turn their backs on Labour and look at credible alternatives.
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19/04/2009 12:02:57
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19/04/2009 12:03:42
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GM,

19/04/2009 12:05:48
@261 and 262
keep it up - fantastically insightful and thought provoking content

(I'll save you the trouble - "keep what up"?)
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19/04/2009 12:08:05
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:14:34
credible alternatives? (Blogtasticdick)

A packet ov Credible Alterantives, fanks.

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PizzaExpress,

Kitchen 19/04/2009 12:18:54
Why do you want onions?
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PizzaExpress,

19/04/2009 12:19:53

Is there any garlic bread?
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PizzaExpress,

19/04/2009 12:20:25

What is table 20 after?
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PizzaExpress,

kitchen 19/04/2009 12:21:15

why do we serve pasta?
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PizzaExpress,

Kitchen 19/04/2009 12:22:04

Is Domino's better? what other alternatives are there?
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PizzaExpress,

kitchen 19/04/2009 12:22:45

Who votes for Burger King?
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19/04/2009 12:22:55
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:25:14
bemoan online (Blogtasticdick)


Bemoan, be my luvver,
Bemoan, yous like my muvver,
Stay close like a ring on me nose.
Bemoan, oim yer Trevor,
Bemoan, be mine forever,
Let me bovver boots crush your toes.

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PizzaExpress,

promoted from dishwashing 19/04/2009 12:25:39

Someone provide me a list of MacDonalds achievements to date
237

PizzaExpress,

19/04/2009 12:26:16

@279

why pot/kettle?
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PizzaExpress,

back to dishwashing 19/04/2009 12:27:07

@279

can you provide me credible alternatives to pots and kettles?
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19/04/2009 12:27:10
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:27:45

"The anger has filtered through the party with one of Labour's longest serving members, Alice Mahon, a former MP for Halifax for 18 years, resigning from the party yesterday because she was "sickened" by McBride's e-mails."
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PizzaExpress,

19/04/2009 12:28:06

@280

why stuffed crusts? why not stonebaked or thin and crispy? are these credible?
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19/04/2009 12:28:07
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19/04/2009 12:28:38
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PizzaExpress,

19/04/2009 12:28:49
@286

you still haven't provided a credible alternative?
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Hugh Roscombe,

19/04/2009 12:28:54
"can you provide me credible alternatives to pots and kettles?"

Pans?
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19/04/2009 12:29:49
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Hugh Roscombe,

19/04/2009 12:30:00
And I wanna take you out of the frying pan (and into the fire)
Out of the frying pan (and into the fire)
Out of the frying pan (and into the fire)

And into the fire! fire! fire!
And into the fire! fire! fire!
And into the fire! fire! fire!
And into the fire!
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PizzaExpress,

promoted back to 'topping supervisor' 19/04/2009 12:30:17
@289

But you still haven't provided credible alternatives?
Still waiting
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19/04/2009 12:30:36
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19/04/2009 12:31:02
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PizzaExpress,

19/04/2009 12:31:14
@292

I will completely ignore that credible alternative because it doesn't suit my purpose today, sorry.

so do you have any credible alternatives?
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19/04/2009 12:31:38
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PizzaExpress,

promoted to 'dough controller' 19/04/2009 12:32:12
@296

still waiting on you providing credible alternatives.
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19/04/2009 12:32:32
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PizzaExpress,

19/04/2009 12:32:54
@299

and?
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19/04/2009 12:33:44
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PizzaExpress,

19/04/2009 12:33:49

no

or is that yes?
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Hugh Roscombe,

19/04/2009 12:34:00
Seriously. What IS the alternative to voting labour down south? Tories? Never in a million years. LibDems? Joke.
We need Rab the Ranter to tell us.

(Scum party perhaps?)

Then again - with the Tories we KNEW we were going to be shafted. I had higher hopes at the beginning of New Labour.

I think it's probably time for the Scum Party. Their manifesto could be up front and just say they were going to screw the public and "illegally" (but within the rules of course) claim for everything "allowed". At least we'd get what we voted for.
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TWC,

exLabour 19/04/2009 12:34:10
The only way Labour could beat the tories is if Gordon Brown Joins the Conservative party.
It really is only a matter of days now,unless big Gordo calls an election that would really set the cat among the pigeons
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19/04/2009 12:35:02
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Hugh Roscombe,

19/04/2009 12:35:27
***********VOTE SCUM*********
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European Scot,

19/04/2009 12:35:30
The 'Deflective' Inspectors are back on the case, fresh from Unionist HQ.
The one line philosophers, trying to steer everyone clear of any pertinent evidence at all costs, and deliberately messing up the 'crime' scene.

New Labour really must be hurting.
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:35:36

McBride has sickened me too. (Blogtsticdick)

No, he hasn't.

You're here doing his work - badly.
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19/04/2009 12:35:52
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19/04/2009 12:36:14
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19/04/2009 12:36:38
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:37:19

"What shocked me about Red Rag was its rank amateurism." (A Campbell)

And he should know.
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19/04/2009 12:37:53
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:38:08
yes he has. (Blogtasticdick)

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:38:37

Tumbleweed .....

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19/04/2009 12:38:38
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:38:59

More tumbleweed .....
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19/04/2009 12:39:04
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:39:16


A ton of tumbleweed .....
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19/04/2009 12:39:27
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:39:29

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:39:43

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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,

19/04/2009 12:39:51
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:39:58


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
280

Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:40:10

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:40:24


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:41:27
THE sleaze crisis enveloping Gordon Brown intensified last night amid damaging new revelations about his handling of the 'Smeargate' affair, alleged voting irregularities in a Labour candidate selection process, and the resignation from the party of a "sickened" former MP.
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19/04/2009 12:41:59
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:42:12

Voting irregularities.
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:43:27

The British National Party offers a credible alternative (Bogtasticdick)

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Stan Butler,

19/04/2009 12:43:41

Ian McWhirter the journalist the cyber gnats love to love was on the telly during the week taking about what he described as the cant and hypocrisy over the smeargate, horror, scandal, sensation.


All political parties go in for this sort of thing.

Rumour and innuendo and gossip about political rivals is commonplace. Anyone who denies that is a fool or a liar. The trick is not to get found out.

David Cameron, former PR executive, and his spin doctor, an ex News of the Screws editor, are obviously more adept at the practice than McBride and Draper were.

And just wait till the SNP start bickering amongst themselves when they fail to deliver a referendum.


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19/04/2009 12:43:47
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:44:31
And just wait till the SNP start bickering amongst themselves when they fail to deliver a referendum (Mincing Butler)


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:45:00
The men and women of the British National Party are motivated (Bogtastic)


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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James.com,

19/04/2009 12:45:09
Don't you just love it; the rest of the UK is just waking up to what we've known for years!
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TWC,

exLabour 19/04/2009 12:45:11
Brown sleaze has crippled him and he looks more and more like Richard Nixon.
Imagine tampering with postal votes in an Internal election. He really is a control freak.
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19/04/2009 12:45:21
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:45:57
We value the folkways and customs which have been passed down through countless generations. We enthuse with pride at the marvels of architecture and engineering that have been completed on these islands since the construction of the great megaliths 7,000 years ago. (Bogtasticdick)

It says ere on vis travel broshoor.


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19/04/2009 12:46:08
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19/04/2009 12:47:22
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:47:31
Brown sleaze has crippled him and he looks more and more like Richard Nixon. (TWC)

"When a president does it, it is NOT illegal."
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19/04/2009 12:48:14
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Los Angeles,

19/04/2009 12:56:15


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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TWC,

exLabour 19/04/2009 13:01:33
Yes another Name has been tied to the Blog site, but the big problem is even Labour are blaming Brown.
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19/04/2009 13:01:56
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19/04/2009 13:02:56
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TWC,

19/04/2009 13:05:53
#361 yes
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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 13:09:50
I see the head BNP knuckledragger has been telling his fellow knuckledraggers to hide their skinhead haircuts as they give a bad impression!!

Have you started wearing a wig Blogknuckledragger??
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Tartan Viking,

19/04/2009 13:18:23
#356. A*srehole
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Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 19/04/2009 13:32:23
Since time immemorial, politician after politician has always claimed the moral high ground.

A situation now exists where every single one of these sanctimonious politicians share the same gutter!

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Hugh Roscombe,

19/04/2009 13:52:29
"I can't get guido's site loaded this morning, any news?"

Go to http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/

Key in the address you're looking for and it'll tell you if the problem is at your end or elsewhere.
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TWC,

exLabour 19/04/2009 13:53:38
365 Mr. Lachie Todd

I agree that a lot of politicians are misusers of information but the current Government are like some Banana republic.
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Teemackell the Scribe,

19/04/2009 14:17:41
"Gurning about the incumbent government is fine, but, there is no credible alternative"-#25, BlogtasticExpress

This is a re-heated Thatcher soundbite. There is ALWAYS an alternative.


Incidentally, Derek, herebouts we say "girning" not "gurning."
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Fred Leeson,

edinburgh 19/04/2009 14:41:38
#367 TWC
None other than George Galloway MP complained about the UK being a banana republic. Over 3 years ago in local elections in London (when complaining about postal votes) he said :

"Political corruption on that scale is unprecedented in Britain since at least the early part of the 19th century. Is this a banana republic? Is this a corrupt political dictatorship where vote-rigging can be tolerated?"

The Respect party claims that between April 10 and April 18 [ 2006 ] - the last day to register - 5,000 postal votes were added in Tower Hamlets alone.

In some wards, this represented a 113% increase in postal votes, the party said.

And still it goes on today. Glenrothes etc....

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hoblar,

19/04/2009 14:42:03
I don't believe there is much point providing a non genuine person with your genuine replies.

Every day there is the same person with some corny name obviously trying to disrupt the flow of conversation and subject, and that is all he well do.

No one in Scotland will be interested in the bnp, that is obvious due to demographics, and of course because they get a cold reception politically because only some fooled desperate people, misinformed as they are, vote for these nohopes, and that only happens in England where they appear in a very few areas to be some sort of alternative for er. Labour.

British jobs for British workers is very right wing, and watching union leaders get caught up in that is embarrassing, as well as the Labour sleaze that was planned and instigated in the a workers union offices in London.

Nobody is interested here in that tosh. That is why the Tories (the sister party of New Labour) are NOWHERE in Scotland, David Cameron is absolutely NOWHERE.

Remember that, because it is a fact.

There is the difference; polls saying the tories are 17 points ahead of Labour in "the UK" and yet they only mean England and Wales, don't they?

Here, it is the SNP, already a popular government, that is the biggest political party, and that is with a press that can't stand them and constantly try and brief against them-so Alex Salmond and his ministers must indeed be the business!
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ratzo,

19/04/2009 15:54:36
Labour sleaze is overwhelming:

http://www.labour-watch.com/sleaze.htm

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19/04/2009 15:55:13
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19/04/2009 15:55:45
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bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 19/04/2009 16:19:41
#374 Blog

If the Scottish electorate had any interest in fascist parties they would have voted for them before now.

I think at the last election the BNP would have received a total of seven votes here, had their voters not spoiled the ballot papers by not being able to spell “X”.

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19/04/2009 16:21:59
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ratzo,

19/04/2009 16:24:22
Labour sleaze is a major boost for the BNP.

Let's remind ourselves what what kind of person stands for the BNP (apart from internet trolls).

Here are some of their lovely candidates for the next elections:

"...the BNP list of six candidates for the European elections goes beyond local naiveté. One is a former head of the National Front. Another appeared on a television documentary and said the numbers who died in the Holocaust had been exaggerated and that advances in dentistry and plastic surgery had been a positive consequence. Another writes a column for the NPD (Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutchlands) in Germany, a neo-Nazi extremist organisation that the German government has tried to legally ban on numerous occasions and who are under constant observation by German intelligence agencies. The NPD want Germany's borders enlarged and revised, and have said that the election of Barack Obama in the United States was the result of "the American alliance of Jews and Negroes". It described support for Obama in Germany as resembling "an African tropical disease"."

Nice...


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bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 19/04/2009 16:26:57
376 Blog

An Ann Summers party is a credible alternative to Labour.


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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 16:30:17
Ah our own Gruppenfurher is back.

Where have you been goose-stepping this afternoon? Easter Road??
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19/04/2009 16:31:30
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Fred Leeson,

edinburgh 19/04/2009 16:31:31
#372 Blog /Bog whoever( is that you Rufus ?)
I think hoblar has joined the rest of us and now scans quickly over the posters on here and automatically ignores pointless posters who want to spoil threads.
The human mind is amazing and can quickly adopt this approach.
Must be boring in your Universe. Get out and enjoy the day with your family. It's nice outside. You will like it.
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19/04/2009 16:32:51
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19/04/2009 16:34:08
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19/04/2009 16:35:57
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19/04/2009 16:36:46
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ratzo,

19/04/2009 16:36:58
Ed Balls has been suggested as Labour's next (elected) leader but his involvement in the sleaze at the heart of the Labour Govt has raised the distinct possibility that he'll be booted out of a safe seat just like Portillo was.

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19/04/2009 16:37:08
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ratzo,

19/04/2009 16:49:07
Reuters on Labour corruption and Brown's next budget:

"Prime Minister Gordon Brown's bid to re-establish confidence in his government days before he sets out the budget is being thwarted by a sleaze scandal he cannot shake off.

Despite a week of resignations and apologies, during which the prime minister sought to end a scandal about offensive emails sent by one of his closest advisers, Brown's weekend opinion poll ratings suggest voters are unimpressed.

Support for his Labour Party slumped to 26 percent in two opinion polls in Sunday newspapers -- with one putting Conservatives as much as 19 points ahead -- before the budget on Wednesday.

Media commentators were quick to forecast doom for Brown's party: "Labour Death Throes" was the Sunday Express tabloid's headline."
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Hugh Roscombe,

19/04/2009 16:51:55
Credible alternative to Labour? I'd say Communism.
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Jimmy Le Pie,

19/04/2009 16:52:19
From The Sunday Times,

Seems like the BNP knuckledraggers are trying to clean up their act!!

"A handbook distributed to activists discloses how the BNP, which has already won a string of council by-elections, plans to soften its extremist reputation and appeal to potential supporters as an “alternative extended family”.

The manual for activists includes: Orders to “make sure your team are tidily dressed and look presentable. No naked torsos in summer, unshaven scruffs or skinhead haircuts (put them in caps or hats)”. Suggestions for the use of internet blogs to attack opponents, including ostensibly independent local blogs that “help us to collect and disseminate material damaging to other parties”. Ideas for reviving St George’s Day traditions to combat the “growing power of Islam”.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 17:00:34
''Ideas for reviving St George’s Day traditions to combat the “growing power of Islam”.''

I remember when the BNP hated people with Afro-Caribbean ethnicity. Now they've switched to muslims. They certainly move with the times with their objects of hatred.
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ExpatNL,

glasgow 19/04/2009 17:17:01



#357 Los Angeles


"Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"

Nice use of the zeds LA, was that friend of yours "elhobble" just a figment of my imagination, or what?

Where is he when we need him, this thread is crying out for some of his condescending bullsheet.


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Eve,

Scotland 19/04/2009 17:33:07
#69 BlogtasticExpress:

"SNP = SFA." What Scottish Football Association?

Aye, I do believe the SNP did give them some support.
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hoblar,

19/04/2009 17:36:35
So, Labour sleaze intensifies, the economy has been ruined, we taxpayers are up to our necks in debt Labour has produced by failed bank bail outs, there is a new Labour sleaze or scandal event on a daily basis, and yet someone with no idea what is happening asks if there is a credible alternative to labour.

Scotland has NOT seen a 17 percent rise in the opinion polls over labour, because the Tories are nowhere, and the very exact reason that the SNP are now the Scottish Government is because Scotland sees them clearly, not as an alternative to labour, but a far better political party with better ministers than the type that are caught out daily in westminster.

The Scottish people will decide how to vote when that chance arrives, and the fact is that pretending they will vote tory or labour in droves shows a deplorable concept of political reality and the situation in Scotland where there is an alternative political party that doesn't consider their first allegiance to be to Westminster.

The Scottish Government are the only political party that are doing their best for Scotland and her inhabitants, and the decline in labour's principles and the enormous corruption and political mistakes, economical mistakes are always the trend displayed by a useless bunch of incompetents and nincompoops who are most definitely on the way out and good riddance to them as they will do nothing but ruin Scotland further.
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The Tin Man,

19/04/2009 17:45:33
On a completely irrelevent subject, does anyone know what the point of the Scotty gov's 'national conversation' is? I posted a comment today, and if I am lucky, the 'moderator' may allow it to be posted tommorrow... Who knows? I see there was one (1) comment posted yesterday. I went to the 'discussion topics', but there is no discussion threads... Where is this 'conversation' thing? Anyone have any ideas?
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Eve,

Scotland 19/04/2009 17:47:03
Sleaze, Spin & Lies are three things that the Labour party have become very good at over there years in power.

I would love to say that nothing surprises me any more with the Labour party government BUT that would be a lie cause every so often they hit new lows.

Thing that mak the least sense is the people like that old laddie who was on the channel 4 news yesterday, who had resigned from the Labour party over the likes of sleaze. But later in the interview said she'd still vote Labour no matter what.

If you leave a political party in bad terms, in all sense of the matter you would be voting against them at the very least if NOT joining or creating a diffrent politcal party that's more included with your beliefs. Really it just come across as if she retired for the party, some older people do that.
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Eve,

Scotland 19/04/2009 17:51:45
#358 BogtasticExcess,: Nice to hear some hot gossip!!!

Was it an excellent experience for you?
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The Tin Man,

19/04/2009 17:55:13
I'll come back in a couple of hours for the exlainations, if there are any... Maybe I have not got the hang of it?
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hoblar,

19/04/2009 18:07:04
Good to see that some unionist is so disinterested in the National Conversation that he has decided to post his own comment.

Of course we can all guess that his comment will be puerile and not worth a thought once it is read, but where is my chance, as a sizable part of the Scottish electorate, to engage in the calman Commision?

The fact of the matter is that the SNP, unlike Labour, aren't scared of views that don't promote the status quo, and the Calman Commission is a huge embarrassment as it ignores a significant proportion of the Scottish electorate and why?

To back up the antiquated principles of the union from the perspective of a political party that has absolutely ripped the union and any notion of there being any "dividend" to shreds!

What a legacy for the outgoing New Labour party that has ruined the economy of England and Scotland, put us all into enormous debt, failed to regulate then failed to rescue banks (again with OUR money), involved itself in an unprecedented corruption and sleaze debacle that reveals a new scandal every day!

I will find your comment tomorrow and laugh my behind off no doubt, in fact, why don't you post it on here as an exclusive preview since you devote an extraordinary amount of time to talking utter rubbish about Scottish politics and deny the undisputed and terminal decline of labour, we could do with another laugh.

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Edward,

19/04/2009 18:12:44
Labour aer finished north and south of the border
the only viabe alternatives for the English ae the Tories and the Libdems.
For Scots, the viable alternatives are the SNP and the Libdems.
If Scots want to make history happen and want Scotkland to be Independent then they should vote en masse for the only party that can make that happen and thats the SNP.
If any Scots are still enamoured with the Union with England and want the 2 Kingdoms to remain united, then they should vote Libdem.
Its a simple as that!
Personally I would vote for the SNP as I think Independence IS the only way forward.
In England there is a very palpable desire to also be Independent and to get on with running England, without the ongoing friction of having non English MP's having a say in what happens.
Scotland can lead the way.
Between now and the general election, we will be subjected to every dirty trick in the book by Labour
The Red Rag project is just part of the dirty tricks campaign. Lets all dump New Labour in the sewer where they belong!
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The Tin Man,

19/04/2009 18:15:38
#401

I eagerly await your reply on the nat conversation thread.

In case you don't know the address:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/topics/a-national-conversation
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19/04/2009 18:31:19
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The Tin Man,

19/04/2009 18:33:58
#404 Quisling

Actually, I posted them on the nat conversation - you can read them their, instead of on the loathed Hootsmon.
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hoblar,

19/04/2009 18:56:04
Some desperate pro union person that consistently posts rubbish about Scottish politics is hardly going to set the world alight with their laughable comments.

I will certainly not 'reply' to someone on the national conversation who embarrasses himself as one of the resident thread hijackers on the Scotsman.

Blind to the corruption and enormous political and economical mistakes of new labour will ensure that whatever is said will be a joke.

however, I have already made my comments, under my real name, and therefore one wonders why some desperate Labourado would consider that an independent mind would need to go to them for the address.

let us wait and see, but if your comment is from the ridiculous persona tinman, then I won't bother to read it as it is highly likely to be as vacuous as the nonsese you have just written above.

Don't call us mate.......
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/04/2009 18:58:32
Folks. The poster BlogtasticExpress was on this thread from quarter past seven until twenty to five.

Kept alive by people taking the bait. Doh.
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/04/2009 19:01:10
My atomic clock days 1905.55
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/04/2009 19:02:13
Thought so. The website here is behind the time.
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 19:02:33
Blagtistic, are you still here? I saw your comments about lies, lies, lies. You are a sneaky loathsome oaf.

Get one thing straight- the Tories are mere amateurs at the sleaze game compared to Gordon's con artists and hatchet men. Get used to it! You've spent all day wasting your time defending Labour you cretin.
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19/04/2009 19:03:07
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19/04/2009 19:04:28
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The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 19/04/2009 19:05:50
#246 Canis Pugnax

"A new email shows that Labour’s General Secretary Ray Collins chaired a secret meeting to create the Red Rag website now ensnared in the Smeargate scandal." is an update and extension of the crisis regarding what I perceive to be Smeargate I but Guido has promised a Smeargate II tomorrow (Monday).

Old Curmudgeonly himself must have gnawed his nails up to his wrists by now.

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19/04/2009 19:06:57
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 19:09:28
405 Why would you leave a comment on the National Conversation site about sleaze and corruption ? Are the Scottish Government ''at it'' ? I would be fairly amazed if they were as the media follow them about like dogs and print every morsel of faux scandal they can find.

I hadn't looked at it for ages. The last published comment was from a dude called Lomax who could have passed for a troll on here. I answered him.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 19:11:47
Blogtastic you missed a lovely day outside.
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 19:22:22
412 The crooked Tories don't tend to cheat their supporters! Most of Labour's cabinet should be in jail for killing hundreds of thousands of innocents, lies and fraud!
361

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19/04/2009 19:23:20
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,

19/04/2009 19:28:53
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19/04/2009 19:30:10
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 19:35:48
419 quite agree with you when it comes to personal venality you can't beat the Tories, such as ''Dame'' Shirley Porter the criminal currently on the run from the law in Haifa. And when it comes to sex scandals you can't beat the tories either, well not unless they ask you to.

But I still maintain not even that old witch Thatcher would have invaded Iraq.

So you've got to accept Phil's charge. Labour caused thousands of un-necessary deaths.
365

Phil C,

19/04/2009 19:39:24
Blag - I don't really give a stuff about the Tories as long as they give Labour a good thrashing. Fortunately Labour will continue to disappear up their own backsides and slowly die. The Scottish people will hopefully accelerate their distancing from the Westminster cesspit.
366

GM,

19/04/2009 19:51:38


I see you are back Adamslie3 with your usual guff... like a broken record until you lose your head and get banned...

again.


You contribute nothing
You spin
You obfuscate
You attempt spoiling tactics
You never enter real debate
You smear opponents

New Labour anyone?
367

Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 19:53:24
Thatcher on Iraq:

''The fact was that there were no facts, there was no evidence, and there was no proof. As a politician the most serious decision you can take is to commit your armed services to war from which they may not return''.
368

GM,

19/04/2009 19:56:51
and I forgot to add Adamslie3 is just another Englishman attempting to tell the Scots just how inept and stupid we are, and with a hand out for 'English' money non-stop.

see his comments at 138 and repeated (as usual) throughout the thread -
"Who will pay for the disproportionate of lazy bassas who cant work\wont work when we close the English purse?"

Adamslie3/BlogtasticExpress
369

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/04/2009 20:07:55
425, GM, either BlogtasticExpress has moodswings every few hours or is an astroturfer log in for the JP.

Either way, ignore it or combat it is as few postings as possible. It is all about postings.

Shame about Observer,, falling for it.
370

GM,

19/04/2009 20:29:48
@426

was caught for a while myself trying to reason with him before I realised he was just another incarnation of Adamslie, and previous threads involving him are, as you imply, just trolling nonsense.

He won't be getting the benefit of any feedback from me from now on - but I'm sure a ban and new moniker won't be far away.

I await his 'final say' - trolls always need to get the last word in.
371

Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 20:32:08
426 ''It'' has got a good point in amongst the nonsense. Too many people are being too laid back about the demise of Labour letting in the Tories. Look at comment 422 ''I don't give a stuff about the Tories''. Aye well, we will all be giving a stuff when they get in.
372

hoblar,

19/04/2009 20:51:41
Aye?

When the Tories get in they might start ignoring the democratically elected Scottish Government, shaft Scotland and talk Scotland down simultaneously, lose thousands of jobs,not even speaking to the First Minister, then they might wreck our economy, or invade third world countries leading to at least half a million deaths, or else become constantly embroiled in corruption and sleaze.

Wonder who they'll get all those anti Scottish ideas from?

I don't care about the westminster cycle at all; labour and the Tories are indistinguishable and we all know it, and the two of them are a proven disaster for Scotland.

At least Scotland has a viable non unionist party to vote for that won't involve itself in warmongering, hailing economic disaster or constant sleaze, and poor old England hasn't got the idea about how useless the brother and sister parties labour and Tories are, or they'd put their votes where their mouth is like Scotland.


373

Ronald Penman,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 20:55:04
One almost feels sorry of "Maggie" Brown. Being attacked by the likes of Brian Wilson - a man once described by the ebc as " a firey leftie"! - and now a multi-millionaire,Nuclear-Power Pimp must add insult to injury.
Wilson, lets recall, was Blairs "Special Envoy" to Iraq. Or as Chris Walkers said; "He got the job as he had once seen a couple of camels at Glasgow zoo"! hahhahahhaha
374

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/04/2009 20:58:40
428, Observer,, it does not have a good point.

The reality is that people vote for parties in the day and age of professional politicians. A Scottish vote in a UK election is worth as much as passing wind into thunder.

If "it" had anything valid to say "it" would have said it. Instead "it" asked questions all day. And you continually allowed yourself to be shot down by coming back for more.

UK elections will always be about some years of Labour and some years of Tory. Matters not who the personalities are. The building takes them all over. Same house - different management.

Concentrate on Scotland.
375

,

19/04/2009 21:01:31
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 21:03:58
430 I know we need independence. I do tend to bang on about it. But if people don't think there is a substantive difference between the Tories and Labour in terms of social policy then they have got the blinkers on.

We are going to be entering a period where Labour's profligate debt is going to have to be paid back. I shudder to think what the Tories are going to do in that situation because they genuinely have no social conscience and simply won't care what effect their policies will have on the most poor and disadvantaged.

Yes we have got to move full steam ahead for independence, but we need to do so on the basis that we are facing an ememy who is both worse and more ruthless than the one we face now.
377

Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 21:06:48
432 First of all I will talk to who I like it's a free forum.

Secondly I don't think it's the same house different management. I think those who believe that are in for a shock.
378

,

19/04/2009 21:09:30
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 21:10:37
431 Chris was of course a member of the Labour party for years. Once Winnie Ewing called him Scotland's greatest quisling (he loves that). Now fully committed to independence. But he is of the same view as me when it comes to the Tories.
380

GM,

19/04/2009 21:11:58
@435

I'm not so sure that it will be a bad thing (in the grand scheme of things)...

We all know the Tories will get in and don't give a stuff about Scotland. However, it seems likely that if they do attempt to 'rape' Scotland as they did in the past (and Labour are doing now), then the electorate are much more sophisticated and with the advent of the online world, I personally believe the Tories will be the unwilling catalyst for Scottish independence.
381

,

19/04/2009 21:12:05
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 21:14:04
437 She wouldn't have. She would have insisted on proof. That puts me in the same camp as Maggie and the Pope, we all agreed the Iraq war was illegal before it happened. Don't need hindsight. Bergen and Cruickshanks have estimated the world is now seven times more dangerous since the Iraq War. Combining that with the thousands of avoidable deaths that the War caused I think Blair&co have earned their place in history.
383

,

19/04/2009 21:17:19
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 21:17:40
439 I personally would love the Tories legacy to be Scottish independence. But I think we all need to gird our loins in a political sense because they are very nasty and it's going to be a dirty fight.
385

GM,

19/04/2009 21:23:09
@443

True.

One question I do like to ask of folks who seek Scottish Independence is how they see the political position in the aftermath.

Personally I'd happily see the rise of Labour, Tory, LibDem and whoever else in an independent Scotland.

There are some out there who seem to feel that those who seek independence seek a 1 party (SNP) state... its a common misconception right up there with 'nationalists hate the English'.
386

,

19/04/2009 21:26:49
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Observer,,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 21:28:15
444 I think we will see a re-alignment of the parties. Of course we are not voting for a one party state. Personally if there is a left of centre grouping I will probably join it. I didn't leave the Labour Party they left me. I look forward to getting it back.
388

,

19/04/2009 21:29:45
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Steve A.,

19/04/2009 21:31:14
437
Helloo Nigel, whats your opinion on the latest opinion polls?
390

,

19/04/2009 21:32:11
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GM,

19/04/2009 21:32:42
446

and how do you think the SNP would 'evolve' (if at all) post-independence?
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 21:33:11
#428 Observer

I don't have that deep-set hatred of anything Tory which so many Scots have. You may disagree with their policies and their methods, but the Tories have never, repeat never, shafted the country like Labour do. All Labour ever leave behind them is a wrecked economy and damaged people.

Whilst the Tories have been sleazy in the past, this Labour bunch leave them all standing. The old incompetent Labour have managed to add the worst of Tory traits to their dirty little repertoire. BOOT THEM OOT! Let the Tories sort out Labour's mess (again) and let the SNP get on with building Scotland up for independence. The sooner the better.
393

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19/04/2009 21:34:54
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 21:36:36
#450 GM

I would hope that a new democratic party would lead the way, post independence. I pray (probably in vain) that Labour (new or old) get nowhere near power!
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19/04/2009 21:36:42
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 21:37:36
#452 Blag

I'm not talking to you, cretin. Dammit, I just talked to you, cretin!
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19/04/2009 21:39:18
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 21:40:12
#456 No!
399

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19/04/2009 21:41:40
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 21:43:05
No, not talking!
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19/04/2009 21:44:35
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19/04/2009 21:48:13
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 21:49:24
nope!
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19/04/2009 21:51:22
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/04/2009 21:52:28
Night all. Enjoy your shift if you have one.
406

Phil C,

19/04/2009 21:52:35
Has anyone out there heard of something by the name of Adamslie or Blagshitty something? It makes a lot of noise. I can kind of hear it droning on now. How do you turn it off?
407

,

19/04/2009 21:53:23
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19/04/2009 21:54:49
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/04/2009 21:55:02
And never forget - another general election at Westminster will still mean more less for Scotland.

Sometimes red, sometimes blue.

Still a rose by any other name.
410

Steve A.,

19/04/2009 21:55:50
From unelected, incompetent PM to unelectable as PM, leading a party whose behaviour and tactics are neigh akin to such a pariah as Mugabe. Brown for all his 'moral compass' twaddle has proven himself to be even more dishonest and deceitful than Bliar. Quite an achievement!
411

Phil C,

19/04/2009 21:56:23
Jock, you're right. We must grasp our own thistle.
412

,

19/04/2009 21:56:52
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Phil C,

19/04/2009 21:58:37
469- Steve

It is beyond comprehension how such a puddin' could be accepted as leader by his numpty party! Mind you lots of people still vote Labour!!
414

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/04/2009 21:58:41
hhfh
415

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19/04/2009 21:58:49
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19/04/2009 21:59:45
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Steve A.,

19/04/2009 22:00:56
Every day there is a fresh incident of incompetence or sleaze from this government. I find it truly amazing that there are still 26% of people prepared to support them. Mind you the poll was taken between Thursday and Saturday. Probably if they had done it today Labour would be down in the teens and behind the Lib Dems
418

Phil C,

19/04/2009 22:02:26
#476 Steve

I think even the most stupid of Labourites are having second thoughts.
419

Teemackell the Scribe,

19/04/2009 22:05:11

#374. BlogtasticExpress,

"Scribe, 368: any credible alternative?"

You invest a great deal in the word "credible." Do you believe that the present government has any credibility? If so, your reasons would be of interest.
420

Steve A.,

19/04/2009 22:09:34
474
Doesnt matter who leads this discredited, incompetent, treacherous and Marxist party. Our eyes have been opened to their hopelessness, their political agenda
their totalitarian tendencies,their inability to run a whelk stall!
Let's not forget their piggy snouts in every available trough!
If Gordon Brown had ANY integrity he would call for an immediate election! As he hasn't, this foul government will spend the next 12 months lining their pockets, and leaving an almighty mess behind for the next government. They have gone so far down the slippery slope, they no longer care what happens to Scotland they just want to save their slimy skins, and make as much personal profit as possible before they know they will be ousted. Shame on Them!!!!
421

Steve A.,

19/04/2009 22:13:20
477
AYE !
422

Steve A.,

19/04/2009 22:15:20
Bring On An Election and bring back the very democrocvy this Labour Government have destroyed in this country.
Put some one in power who is elected and not another Dictator who say's one thing and is constantly doing another.
We have had enough of this Government and they continue to carry on regardless !
423

ricky40,

19/04/2009 22:18:29
blogmastic

I don't think your English but I feel that you have something in common with an assasinated US President.
424

Steve A.,

19/04/2009 22:22:28
Darling to admit that the tax payer will not get their bank bailout money bank.

Tell us something we don't know ffs !
425

Ronald Penman,

Glasgow 19/04/2009 22:33:50
Er..... Steve.....NEW LABOUR Marxist ? Your 'avin a right old larf, aincha ! Lets be clear; NEW LABOUR are to the right of Atila. Far to the right of the Tory Party. They have achieved much that the old animal Thatcher could only dream off; Criminalised and left destitute Asylum Seekers, Enabled the already rich to accumulate wealth beyond their wildest dreams,
Increased child poverty, Hammered the sick and disabled,Privatised and ruined the NHS, Replacing Trident for a "mere" £100 Billion, Ilegal and amoral wars murdering over one million civilians,Created a Police Junta where innocent members of the public are murdered and the killers walk. And I suppose the likes of Mandelson, Brown, Darling, Blunkett, and Straw are "lefties"?
426

Steve A.,

19/04/2009 22:42:08
Ron
How would you describe browns new world order and what he is trying to do with the tax payers money with ref to the banking industry..........?
427

ExpatNL,

glasgow 19/04/2009 22:46:59


#436 Observer

"First of all I will talk to who I like it's a free forum."

Well said.


428

Steve A.,

19/04/2009 22:57:21
486
Agreed !
429

Steve A.,

19/04/2009 23:15:44
Oldies with long memories remember Jim Callaghan. He was a typical Old Labour Trade Union apparatchik, part of a movement which was a byword for back-handers, closed-door deals and favours for friends. So we voted for Margaret Thatcher. Her government turned out to be unpleasantly authoritarian and unpleasantly corrupt. Remember when Burma Oil was not prosecuted for law-breaking, because Dennis was on the board? After many years, we greeted John Major with relief. Corruption got worse.

Naively, we greeted NuLabour as if it was a real new hope. After ten years of Tory sleaze, anything looked good. Bliar worked this "new dawn" feeling for all it was worth. We hoped for an end to sleaze and a return to policies of freedom. Things got a lot more authoritarian and a lot more corrupt, a bit like Thatcher-ism on steroids. We waited for years for Bliar to step down and Brown to take over. He made promises. Things got worse.

Now there's Dave "NuLabour lite" Cameron. Promises, anyone?

If your Scottish you have an alternative to this anti democratic left/right paradigm and its called INDEPENDENCE ! ITS THE ONLY WAY OUT NOW !
430

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 19/04/2009 23:17:35
The Rallying song for New Lie bore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW46zqIxnx0&feature=related
431

Tris,

19/04/2009 23:46:49
#488. Geez Steve, you pretty much encapsulated the history of the UK over the past 30+ years there... It makes pretty dismal reading...

"Things can only get......hum....."
432

ExpatNL,

glasgow 19/04/2009 23:56:38


Don't include me in:

"So we voted for Margaret Thatcher"

or

".......we greeted John Major with relief"

or

"Naively, we greeted NuLabour as if it was a real new hope."

Thank you.














http://tinyurl.com/deadly-blog
433

Steve A.,

20/04/2009 00:10:20
Tris
.........better , aye . Tris do you remember the day tory bliar walked into no 10 with the adoring public waiving their wee union jacks.........it turns out that they were all lie bour party activist putting on a show for the cameras . So they have been at the spin from day one .

LIE BOUR IS OUR NAME DECEPTION IS OUR GAME !
434

Steve A.,

20/04/2009 00:15:24
491
Generalisation , IE this is how the UK electoral results panned oot !

You ken whit a meant ...dint ye ??
435

Tris,

20/04/2009 00:26:36
Steve....

I do mate.... Ceaucescu did the same sort of thing and I believe Kim Jong Il is a past master at it....

This lot bring disgrace on the word "lowlife"
436

Steve A.,

20/04/2009 00:33:20
491
On second thought...please accept my apologies as the way i wrote that post could be considered as an attempt to SMEAR my fellow posters for even thinking about voting for any of those @rseholes !

SORRY !
437

Steve A.,

20/04/2009 00:41:27
494
Tris ..like GB i hear Kim Jong just loves his super power toys ie nukes ..the only diff being Kim Jong doesn't mind them being in his own back yard !

Go figure .
438

Phil C,

20/04/2009 07:18:59
#488 Steve

The one huge fly in the independence ointment is.........guess what??................it's the problem with just about everything in politics..............The Labour Party!!

Historically there is a huge rump of stubborn voters in Scotland who believe all the Labcrap. They don't think, they don't look, they just believe. It is extremely possible that Labour, in some guise, will emerge as the dominant force in Scotland after independence. Then what? Down goes the good ship Alba. More wasted years.

We will need a new common sense, peoples' social democratic party when the SNP splits, to save us from the Labour menace for good.
439

ExpatNL,

glasgow 20/04/2009 09:04:45



#495 Steve A

Accepted.

Thank you.

By the way, I'm only speaking for myself.

440

alanh,

ek 20/04/2009 11:50:12
its even worse when Mandy gets involved.
According to him the issue is now over, move along nothing to see anymore because Maggie Broon FIRED the bad man that did this all by himself without anyone else knowing. Must be true coas mandy sez so.
But McBride was NOT fired he was allowed to RESIGN.
You cant help yerself can you mandy?
441

Robert Ferguson,

New Gilston 24/04/2009 11:58:04
Gordon Brown didn't get where he is today only to be felled by some Lilliputian fella called Damian. Gordan's career has not depended on looks,charisma,smooth-talking nor spin. He is far more subtle and sophisticated than that.. He was probably potty-trained whilst studying Machiavelli. This "Spinarette" McBride was summarily "centrifuged" from G.B.'s orbit when he exposed himself by e-mail. Gordon's a typical ,dour Fifer who does not spin. It would,however "tak a lang spin to sup wi' oor Gordon."

 

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