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Iran sanctions 'a sign of restraint not a war cry'


ANALYSIS

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Published Date: 28 October 2007
IN ANNOUNCING new sanctions against an elite unit of Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps, Bush administration officials took pains last week to offer assurances that at least for now, the United States is not going to war with Iran.
"We do not believe that conflict is inevitable," said Nicholas Burns, under-secretary of state for political affairs. "This decision supports the diplomacy and in no way does it anticipate the use of force."

The move designated the Quds force of
the Revolutionary Guard and four state-owned Iranian banks as supporters of terrorism, and the Guard itself as an illegal exporter of ballistic missiles.

The decision thus raised the temperature in American's ongoing confrontation with Iran over terrorism and nuclear weapons. But it also reflected some caution by an administration that has accused the Quds force of aiding Shi'ite militia attacks on US soldiers in Iraq, and has even detained some Quds force members there, but has so far resisted calls for retaliatory strikes inside Iran.

"This is a warning shot across the bow, not that the US is going to invade Iran. But Iran has pushed the level of escalation, particularly inside Iraq, to unacceptable levels," said Anthony Cordesman, a senior fellow at the influential Centre for Strategic and International Studies.

"In many ways this kind of warning is more a demonstration of restraint than a signal that we're going to war."

Still, after 18 months in which the administration has touted the virtues of collective action against Iran by the US and its allies, the sanctions mark a major turn toward unilateralism.

The shift represents a tacit acknowledgment that the diplomatic strategy pressed most vigorously by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has been ineffective.

The Bush administration hopes to enlist allies around the world in its new, tougher stance - in part because the US, having maintained its own stiff sanctions against Iran since the Islamic revolution in 1979, doesn't have much leverage left itself. The administration hopes its influence can turn Iran into a political and economic pariah.

The sanctions will "provide a powerful deterrent to every international bank and company that thinks of doing business with the Iranian government", Rice said.

Yet officials acknowledged that past attempts to enlist allies in limiting their business ties to Iran have come up short. In each instance, they acknowledged, some other countries have partly offset the sanctions.

China, for instance, has increased trade with Iran in the past year, Burns said. And analysts pointed out that Russian, Indian, European and even Canadian companies continue to do business with many different sectors of the Iranian economy, particularly its oil and natural gas industries.

Rice said that US officials would continue to work with their European, Russian and Chinese counterparts to formulate a new set of UN Security Council sanctions to rein in Tehran's nuclear ambitions.

But she also said she would be willing to "meet with my Iranian counterpart anytime, anywhere", as long as Iran first suspended its nuclear activities.

But the regime of President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad has so far shown no sign that it is remotely interested in complying with the Security Council demand that it suspend its uranium enrichment.

The head of Iran's Revolutionary Guards dismissed the possibility of a US military action against Iran and warned that his forces would respond with an "even more decisive" strike if attacked. In Tehran, a spokesman for the Foreign Ministry shrugged off Washington's announcement, saying America's hostile policies ran counter to international regulations and were "doomed to fail".

He said the US produced nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and had supported what he called terrorist groups. He called the Bush administration's accusation that Iran was arming Shi'ite militias in Iraq "ridiculous".

Israel, a major target of Ahmedinejad's rhetoric, welcomed the announcement. Sallai Meridor, Israel's ambassador to Washington, called it "a major diplomatic step in the effort to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons which threaten international peace and security".



The full article contains 667 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 October 2007 6:49 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Iran
 
1

2dogs in D.C.,

6 zip for Boston 28/10/2007 01:44:17

Absolutely nothing to do w/thread-Bsox 6-Rockies 0-Hey,49th-you watching? 57? G.C.? If my Nats can't do it GO BOSTON

2

,

28/10/2007 02:11:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1093976, Article id was mapped to record!
3

2dogs in D.C.,

28/10/2007 03:21:19

#2-K-welcome to the U.S. Best of luck to you. this barking at Iran is mistaken,and will not go any further. But, Bosten is still ahead 6 to 2. Roofus says the rockies will win, but Tucker says it's Boston.

4

57Nomad,

california 28/10/2007 06:23:25

#2 Kirt

I pray that the Iranian people make the situation right before things get worse. The sanctions may do the trick but I fear not. Totalitarians view any response short of force to be a sign of weakness. They follow Lenins dictum, "Probe with bayonets, where you find mush proceed, where you find steel, withdraw."

The Iranian people are the inheritors of a mighty and ancient culture. Every American hopes with all his heart that the situation doesn't come to blows. My greatest worry is that the present regime will hold our resolve in contempt and in doing so bring about great sorrow and destruction. God help us all

5

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA vote Hillary Clinton... US Pres. 28/10/2007 06:29:51

3. 2dogs in D.C.

Hey baseball fan waite till its over Boston vs Rockies that is.

Iran sanctions 'a sign of restraint not a war cry'
------------------------------------------------------

A war with IRAQ will not happen in the watch of Pres. Hillary Clinton (if she's elected)

But BUSH would attack Iran, if he could get the $1 to $2 trillion needed to sustain such a disaster.

Congress will not allow that, and neither will the American voters who are THE GOVERNMENT of the USA.


Again I say Bush and his administration is the greatest political tragety to befall the US in the past 100 years.

GC

6

Pete,

Paisley 28/10/2007 06:47:01

Kirtokoonehmulla # 2

You say, "the Iranian-Americans will await that moment where the citizens of iran will sacrifice their lives for the freedom of their beautiful country,"

Just like president Bush, where others must sacrifice their lives fo his aspirations. If politicians lives were at stake ther would be fewer wars.

7

Guga II,

Rockall 28/10/2007 07:05:19

Have a read at the following:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IJ27Ak05.html

It shows how Bush and his cohorts are deliberately lying to the American people, again.

8

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA vote Hillary Clinton... US Pres. 28/10/2007 09:01:31

6. Guga II, Rockall

Hey dude,

Why are u surprised that Bush and Cheney lie.

They are not the first .. remember Pres. NIXON
He lied .

With Bush and his gang they used fear tacticts after 9/11 to manipulate the American voters . who bought it.

But in 2007 an estimated 72% of American voters no longer believe Pres. Bush anymore.

He mislead the American voters once too often,

Bush will be toast on 20 January 2009.

Unfortunately he will leave behind, his disasterous Military quagmire in IRAQ for the next US Pres. to deal with.

Meanwhile Bush rides off into the TEXAS SUN SET free and clear.

Its so wrong that Bush will get away with his war crimes, and his use of extreme propaganda on the American people.

GC

9

Richardinho,

28/10/2007 09:17:26

Sick of american hypocrisy. Iran has as much right as any other country to develop nuclear weapons for it's own defence-which is far more pressing than most of the other countrys with them.

10

Biker,

Ayr 28/10/2007 10:44:30

GC Could'nt agree more with your sentiments.Bush will leave the White House leaving behind debt and conflict in his wake.
Hope the fires are out where you are my friend.
No2 K (please forgive the abreviation) Iran does not hold the record for missleading their people. All politicians and governments do just the same. My profound hope is that Dubya and Broon do not attempt to spin and lie their way into another conflict in the region. Peace to all.

11

Biker,

Ayr 28/10/2007 10:45:03

Richardinho. Agreed.

12

Silence of the Yams,

Leith. 28/10/2007 11:18:27

Idiot leftist posters might find it acceptable that an Islamist dictatorship with nukes, guided by the same principles as Bin Laden, is tolerated. I don't.

13

Let's have the truth,

Australia 28/10/2007 11:59:30

# 11

And just what are the principles of bin Laden? If you believe they are to create a focus and a solution for the tragedy of the Palestinians, the 3000 killed on 9/11 just may be worth it.

14

57Nomad,

california 28/10/2007 12:07:57

#11 SotY

The only time I respond to any of the leftist posters here is when I'm in the mood for some fun. They do not have reasoned positions. There is no advancing understanding with them. However, they often lead with their chins and when they do it's pretty good sport smacking them around.

Not one of them understand that we are not engaged in a game of fairsies, we get to do it so they get to do it. They do not understand that the West is engaged in a titanic struggle that is the latest iteration of the theme first confronted by the Athenians at Marathon in 490 BC.

There is no compromise with the Moslem fanatics. There is no negotiating with people who openly state that their goal is our subjugation. There is no misunderstanding that can be cleared up by diplomatic initiatives.

Only one side will survive. Consequently, the notion of hypocrisy, for instance, entering into our position regarding the Iranian nukes is nothing but a schoolboys sophistry, void of relevance. It isn't the issue. The issue is this, who will survive and who will perish. Nothing else matters.

15

Let's have the truth,

Australia 28/10/2007 12:08:42

# 12

I see you've indulged in your crack cocaine for the day.

Your statement is totally ludicrous, unless of course you were being sarcastic.

If you were being sarcastic, I apologise for the crack cocaine remark. However if you are among the mindless war-mongering imbeciles who have been brainwashed by the gang in the whitehouse, I take back my apology.

16

Rosie's Opinion,

USA 28/10/2007 12:37:49

6. Guga II, Rockall

Your reporter "Gareth Porter" in the lefty online paper "Asian Times" is a huge left wing radical anti-war zealot. When posting articles you should try to find ones balanced. This Gareth Porter is so far left he has no credibility.

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/06/09/gareth-porter-5/

17

Silence of the Yams,

Leith. 28/10/2007 12:45:57

#13. Read the Quran and Hadith. Mohammed was a terrorist: fact. And Iran is Persian, not Arab. The Tehran mullah's want to control Jerusalem for themselves.

#15. It's obvious that you're own liberty and life is not under threat from an evil regime, hellbent on nukes and the destruction of a sovereign state. Israel would be fully justified attacking these illegal installations right now. 100% justified.

18

Let's have the truth,

Australia 28/10/2007 12:59:24

It's remarkable how with a little input from the Bush/Cheney gang how hysteria builds into a situation that becomes almost uncontrollable in the blinkered minds of the vulnerable.

A verbal response from Iran to a threat of war from the whitehouse is treated as an actual volley of missiles attacking the American way of life.

You Americans should learn how to thicken your skin.

19

Biker,

Ayr 28/10/2007 13:15:52

22 Wini. It was indeed Islamists who overthrew the Shah of Iran, and a bloody good thing too. The level of corruption within Iran at that time was legion. Remember how much money the Shah removed from Iran and also remember how comaratively poor much of the people were. The Shah was in the pockets of the US oil industry and frittered away most of the moneys on a rich and pomous lifestyle.
With regard to Silence of the Yams. I often read your spurious warmongering, scaremongering drivel and usually I chose to ignore it, but on this occasion I have to say YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. and frankly your posts are facile.
57 Nomad, we expect no better from you, as ever.

20

Dutch,

Wyoming - US of A 28/10/2007 13:18:35

The Iranian people can change their government overnight if they simply take to the streets and value change enough to lay down their lives for it. Until that happens, I must believe that the Iranian people are content with... and support their government. Unfortunately for the Iranian people... Iran possesses oil reserves that the rest of the world eye with saliva-dripping greed. Of course Iran seeks nuclear power... they saw what happened to Iraq... a nation that had massive oil reserves, but no nuclear weapons to protect themselves.

21

Silence of the Yams,

28/10/2007 13:23:03

Gay Biker, back spewing out FACILE rubbish. Fact is, output in Iran is 50% of what is was 1979, 50%!!! Also, the Shah's exit removed US backing and paved the way for the Iran-Iraq war and 1m dead. You and your like are bloody fools, thats the only truth.

22

Let's have the truth,

Australia 28/10/2007 13:26:18

# 21

You need to have a closer look at how the Shah was installed in Iran.

The type of sabre rattling by the current incumbent in the whitehouse is no better than what they claim is coming from Iran.

The Iranians are no more fundamentalist than those who are threatening to attack them.

Surely you must realise that Iran, if they are attempting to create an atomic weapon and that is by no means proven, would not use it other than as a deterrent to prevent an attack on them.

If Iran did attack anyone they would be obliterated and they know it.

Given the US record of attacks against Iran's, one can understand why they need a deterrent, again assuming that is what they aspire to do.

23

Let's have the truth,

Australia 28/10/2007 13:32:49
24

Let's have the truth,

Australia 28/10/2007 13:36:56

# 22

This is what I write against:

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=23696

25

Biker,

Ayr 28/10/2007 13:50:42

Thank you Lets have the truth.
Silence of the Yams. Read it ans absorb!!! The only bloody fool on this site is you with your bile filles rant. Try to be more objective instead of just stupid.

26

Biker,

Ayr 28/10/2007 13:52:39

In fact Yam read them both
Again Lets have the truth, Thank you.

27

Silence of the Yams,

28/10/2007 16:50:07

You call a pile of lies and distortions, pulled from some BS conspiracy website, the truth??

Iranian output is down 50% from 1979. And the Shah didn't execute females for adultery back in 1979 - these ARE truths! But of course, losers like Gay Biker don't need to hear that.

28

honest, jock,

Leith 28/10/2007 18:50:52

18

According to the Romans and the Jewish Government of the day so was Christ.
Yams you really are a clueless clown.

29

Silence of the Yams,

Leith 28/10/2007 19:28:01

#32

Unlike you friend, I am educated and informed. You on the other hand are a peasant's serf.

30

Silence of the Yams,

Leith 28/10/2007 19:47:36

#35 They wouldn't use it against Jerusalem because it would despoil their bogus prophets third holiest sight, but they wouldnt think twice about using it against Tel Aviv or Jaffa. Just like their proxy army Hezbollah did a year ago with conventional rockelst attacks. Israel will defend itself if diplomacy fails.

31

Biker,

Ayr 28/10/2007 20:18:20

35 Wini. thanks for the comments which I largely dissagree with.
Why should Iran not have the ability to provide power and light to its people. And why are we happy that Isreal the only state to posses such Power. This is not to say that the Iranians would not build a weapon as well. But you are rather presupposing that they would use this weapon in a premeditated way, which is by no means likely.
You also make the differential between Western democracies and Islam, why?, or had democracy become the new religion?
Silence of the Yams has finaly lost the plot.

32

57Nomad,

california 28/10/2007 20:56:43

#23 Biker

In #23 Biker said:

"57 Nomad, we expect no better from you, as ever."

Sorry Biker, I'm gonna have to fault your communications skills. You see, you have maligned me without referencing what you are referring to. Now, your sophisticated readers, analytical thinkers, those with plain old common sense, and sharp grade school children are going to notice this. Thought's like, "what the hell is this guy going on about" will be sparked.

I not only don't mind it when you come at me, in fact it's entertaining, but I am disappointed when the thrust is so weak. Like being barked at by an arthritic chihuahua. Please try harder. If you take a look at your post #23 and subtract uncited and unsubstantiated claims and the ad hominem remarks, what are you left with?

What you are left with is your support for the Islamofascists. These are the people who blew up the London buses and tried to get the airport in Glasgow. Nice work, swifty.

33

Biker,

Ayr 28/10/2007 21:07:35

Hey Nice one 57 nomad You actualy got almost to the end of your rant without actualy mentioning Islamofacists.
What I am actualy left with mate is ability to see that if you isolate and bully others , dont be surprised when they eventually strike back. We should have been talking with these people decades ago instead of playing stupid politics with and against them, Selling them guns and support for political expediency is always gonna backfire, especially when you try to control your past friends.
As for unsubstatiated claims, I suggest you read No27 link and see what the truth actually is.
Being no stranger to this site and threads, do you think that your ramblings have gone unoticed, swift yes, stupid.... no.

34

49th State,

About me house, cleaning 28/10/2007 23:18:02

If the USA doesn't bomb the nuclear plants amd related sites in Iran, you can be sure that the Isrealis will.

They stuned the world once:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/7/n...


I'm certain they will do it again:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article426433...

35

49th State,

About me house, cleaning 28/10/2007 23:20:18

Besides, perhaps these Persians (Iranians are not Arabs) wold like to be nuked into the Middle Ages. I'm sure the mullahs there would been keen on this concept.

36

honest, jock,

Leith 28/10/2007 23:31:07

40 41 In a state.

I see that the terrorism ideal is alive and well and presently residing between your ears.
Ever thought about comming a suicide bomber or do you prefer others to do your killing for you?

37

49th State,

About me house, cleaning 28/10/2007 23:38:25

# 42
Jock,

Honestly, I have no control over these events. I only have history as a guide. Of course I do not want more terrorists, but they are coming whether we like it or not. The Wahabists want the world their way and have a plan for their vision.

On the other hand, I'm begining to think that you have revealed yourself as one of those poor souls who would rather trade freedom for security. In the end, You'd have neither.

38

Silence of the Yams,

29/10/2007 00:03:11

#43. His main concern is getting in his fortnightly giro, believe me!

39

'Suck' - McCrunchie,

the eighth 29/10/2007 00:27:35

OK - here's a solution.

For all those (including me) sure Iran is not going to do anything, we can get on with our lives and not bother.

For the likes of Wini, Nomad and Yam: if you perceive a risk you can go there and fight, or in Yam's case, call them names.

The number wanting to invade, if having to put in the effort, would probably result in a war with the lowest ever number of casualties, while getting rid of the biggest risks to world peace.

40

Let's have the truth,

29/10/2007 00:35:43

Undoubtedly there will be an element here who would say that the French Resistance during WWII were "Terrorists".

It is a shame that this same element is equivalent to those they malign. Typical of the shoot first and ask questions later brigade.

The so-called civilised west harbouring these unfortunate creatures will be to its detriment.

41

Richardinho,

29/10/2007 00:39:37

If Israel feels so threatened by Iran, let them deal with it. What I object to is the way that Israel and it's apologists are trying to drag us into a conflict with Iran.

Iran is not a threat to us (the UK) or the USA in any shape or form. Personally I don't think it's much of a threat to Israel either, but I don't see why it's our problem if it is.

42

Home_Sweet_Home,

Who Cares 29/10/2007 01:07:13

#47 Richardinho

What bs you spew.
Iran sponsored Hezbollah which murdered 241 US marines.
They were the sponsors of the Khobar bombing.
They took US diplomats hostage.

To pretend they are not a threat to US or UK interests is to be purposely blind.

43

Dáithí,

San Jose 29/10/2007 01:20:27

#6 Guga -

> "Have a read at the following:"

Guga, Rosie is dead-on when she points out in #17 the complete lack of credibility that the author of your article has. You are using a liar, Gareth Porter, as you basis for calling Bush a liar? See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gareth_Porter

"Gareth Porter rejected early accounts of the mass killings by the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. With George Hildebrand he wrote a book, Cambodia: Starvation and Revolution, which accepted the Pol Pot regime's rationale for the deportation of millions of people from Phnom Penh and other cities. Critics have argued that the book's sources included official statements by the Pol Pot regime."

I don't think that an apologist for Pol Pot is the type of source that would give your position any credibility.

However...

I see that GC, Richardinho, Biker, Pete, Let's have the truth, et al, are more than willing to accept any source, no matter how much they lie, as long as it is what they want to hear. Pol Pot, hero of the left.

Good debating point here mate - ALWAYS check your references for their slant, assume that every writer is biased.

44

Richardinho,

29/10/2007 02:08:21

#48
But these things you speak of took place in the 70s and 80s.These can also be seen in the context of America's own illegitimate involvement in Iran.

In any case Iran has moved on since then.

45

Richardinho,

29/10/2007 02:10:16

#49 Don't recall saying I supported Pol-pot! lol! I guess when you're trying to smear people, it doesn't matter if what you're saying is true or not though!

46

'Suck' - McCrunchie,

the eighth 29/10/2007 02:21:27

6. Googz

I found another couple of references about Bush lying.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?source=ig&hl=en&rl...=

49. Dáithí

You're not good with numbers, fancy checking their credibility and impartiality?

We really need to be careful with this; we are potentially saving Australia from invasion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8SuCBHqXtQ

47

57Nomad,

california 29/10/2007 02:35:42

#39Biker

That's more like it. This was a good sentence:

"What I am actualy left with mate is ability to see that if you isolate and bully others , dont be surprised when they eventually strike back. We should have been talking with these people decades ago instead of playing stupid politics with and against them"

You have illustrated your point of view very well. I will explain to you what mine is and even though we will likely not agree or even grant that the other persons point of view could be held by a sane person at least it will be our points of view and not each other that will be the point of contention.

Your point of view, if I may paraphrase, is along these lines. The present trouble is a result of Western meddling in the affairs of the countries that have now because our adversaries. Furthermore the the most egregious meddler is the US.

I couldn't see in your post a remedy. You didn't have to offer one. But the problems still persists and has a direct bearing on our future. Consequently, while the consideration of the genesis of the problem is important, it is not the most pressing question.

This seems to be your point of view; we caused the problem, we should expect the reaction that is taking place, and we should admit our culpability and accept the karmic reprisal as our just due.

So, let us, for the sake of discussion stipulate your basic contention. It is all our fault. Anything we do in response to their violent reaction is unwarrented. Keep you mouth shut and take it, in other words.

If this is not your view, please clarify, but it is my present understanding of it. If we accept this view then we must, covered in shame and remorse, parade ourselves, helpless, before the righteous retribution of the offended. Am I misunderstanding you on this?

If I'm not then at this point our positions become irreconcilable. No matter what caused it, we believe that the Islamofasc

48

'Suck' - McCrunchie,

the eighth 29/10/2007 02:46:00

Here are some more interesting perspectives, reaching new lows, from americans on the middle east...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWCPAXgrm2U

49

Dáithí,

San Jose 29/10/2007 02:49:02

#51 - Richardino

Guga presented a link to a proven liar, Gareth Porter at 'The Asian Times". Review his posts on other threads, you'll see Guga uses this source at 'The Asian Times' quite a bit. You accepted Guga's position, built upon Gareth's history as a liar - then ran with it.

Gareth's lie? There are many, in this case I linked to his being a 'Pol Pot' denier - in fact, he actually used 'Pol Pot' press releases as part of his book defending him.

Bad foundation for you guys' 'anti-war' rhetoric. We have to all wonder about the credibility of anything else you guys post based on this.

You need to better examine the company you keep - or at least their sources.

#52 - Guga said:

> You're not good with numbers, fancy checking their credibility and impartiality?

What Numbers? I introduces NO numbers, I only verified Rosie's statement in her post #17 on the weakness of your source - which is easily verified.

Oh wait, I see what your doing! Embarrassed by your oft-quoted source being blown, you're trying to divert everyone's attention! I see now!

The proper way, when you are trying to divert everyones attention from your guffaw, is to point up at the window and yell "HEY EVERYONE, LOOK!!"

Then run away!

It didn't work.

50

Home_Sweet_Home,

Who Cares 29/10/2007 02:49:47

#50 Richard

Khobar Towers was 98, not the 70's.

And while I do not agree with Bush's inane policies in Iraq, they are CURRENTLY arming and supplying the insurgents to kill American and Brittish soldiers.

They are flounting Interpol's warrants for the bombing of the Argentine Jewish Center and they are in violation of their treaty obligations in regards to their nuclear program.

They have most certainly not 'moved on.'

As I said, purposely blind - and seemingly with a purpose.

51

Dáithí,

San Jose 29/10/2007 02:59:27

#54 - Suck forwarded this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWCPAXgrm2U

This is priceless, Suck! You and two pals make a video and place it on 'YouTube' then refer to it as a source!

Hahaha! You guys are the best!! Nice try, but it's still better that Guga's sources I suppose...

OK everyone, tonight's game - cruise 'Youtube' for any outlandish goofballs that say whatever you want to hear - then post it as a 'valid news source'!

52

'Suck' - McCrunchie,

the eighth 29/10/2007 03:59:08

57. Dáithí, San Jose

You're just jealous someone has two pals!

I counted far more than two people in the video.

I am amazed you reached that link so quickly - you had 443 000 links posted by "#52 - Guga" about bush lying.

Are you trying to avoid the issue about bush lying?

Here are some more americans showing us how smart they are...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx7CfSCTpgU

and here's some nice normal american religious folk from Westboro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cN2pB3MCE

53

Dáithí,

San Jose 29/10/2007 04:19:42

#59 - Suck

> 57. Dáithí, San Jose

> I counted far more than two people in the video.

How many did you count before you ran out of fingers and had to quit?

> I am amazed you reached that link so quickly - you had 443 000 links posted by "#52 - Guga" about bush lying.

What are you smoking tonite, Suck?

> Are you trying to avoid the issue about bush lying?

Nope. He just hasn't posted any videos on 'YouTube', so therefore I know that you won't accept anything else as a creditable news source.

> Here are some more americans showing us how smart they are...

Ahh, we now go back to your regular channel for anti-American news, sports and weather! Posted by people with absolutely NO agenda!

Hahaha!

54

Paul,

29/10/2007 05:15:52

The biggest threat to global security is the US.

In terms of proliferation and USE of nuclear, conventional, biological and chemical weapons they are by a long way the worst offendors.

They disregard a significnat number of international treaties wrt weapons proliferation, especially NPT.

And the US is being restrained? I don't think so. The US does not understand the words restrained, democracy, tolerance, freedom and, oh yeah, PEACE.

America has gone to war in its history with guess how many countries? Almost exactly the number of stars on its flag.

I'm not sure whether to fully trust Iran, its hard to know, but I know Washington and London will definitely be lying on this issue like many others beforehand.

So Scotsman, don't give me the line that sanctions are sign of restraint because that's pure BS.

55

Dáithí,

San Jose 29/10/2007 05:36:01

#60 - Paul

> The biggest threat to global security is the US.

Nope. The US has been keeping you safe for over 50 years. With allies like Britain and others.

> America has gone to war in its history with guess how many countries?

Uh, let me name a few:

Imperial Britain
Imperial Britain
Itself
Imperial Spain
Mexico (they're moving here now)
Imperial Germany
Imperial Germany (again)
Imperial Japan
Imperial Italy
Communist North Korea (OK, this was the UN's idea)
Communist North VietNam
Cold War with Communist USSR (they lost)
Grenada (?)
Haiti
Somali
Dictatorial Iraq (a NATO idea?)
Taliban Afghanistan
Dictatorial Iraq

I may have left out a few, but you get the idea - if you're an imperialist, dictator or communist, I can see why you'd be upset.

Other than that, you're probably happy with the US.

56

57Nomad,

california 29/10/2007 06:33:06

#60 Paul

Wow! You sound like a righteous Scottish Minister rebuking sin from the pulpit. Sanctimonious clown. We understand peace quite well. We've had a lot of practice restoring it over in Europe. You see these wars, let call them, for want of a better name, WWI and WWII started in Europe by Europeans. The US wanted no part of them and stayed out as long as we could. These two wars took the lives of about 100 million human beings.

Furthermore these wars weren't just wars between countries, they were wars between empires. These empires were made up of countries throughout the world who the Europeans had got the drop on. Having achieved this advantage they proceeded to exploit it. Take a look at a map of the world circa 1914. You will see something unusual by todays reckoning. With the exception of North and South America the entire world was divided thusly. Europe and the colonies of Europe, with the Ottomans hanging on by their fingernails.

So, look, Sloopy, we are not in any mood to be lectured by the likes of you. When you held a superior economic and military advantage you exploited in by gobbling up any one who was weaker than you, shamelessly and with pride in doing so.

We do not need to be restrained by anything. We restrain ourselves because we are good people. If we were like the creatures that crawled out of your diseased mind in post #60 we would act as you did. The difference is we wouldn't monkey around with the third world.

If we wanted an empire, we would colonize Europe. With the exception of GB, who would at least resist, every other country in Western Europe would capitulate upon request. They lack the means and more importantly the will to resist. We have the military power to compel the surrender of every single country in Western Europe simultaneously and we could do it in the morning with nothing more than a phone call.

You have a morbid idea of the US and it reflects whatever disorde

57

Let's have the truth,

Australia 29/10/2007 10:17:59

# 62

Your usage of the term "Sanctimonious clown" to describe Paul is nonsensical and absurd as that was an apt description of the bulk of your post.

I'm sure there are many who appreciate America's contribution to defeating the Nazi scurge during WWII but when all said and done it was the USSR that did most of the heavy lifting.

Nevertheless, appreciation aside, we are talking about the days when the US was admired. Since then, the US has lost its way and foreign policy emanating from the whitehouse appears to be based on "Shooting from the hip", illogic and in many cases total stupidity.

Furthermore, if you believe a mere 'phone call from the Pentagon could cause pretty much anyone to lay down their arms, why don't you suggest that Bush does that without delay.

Had he taken your advice in March 2003, around 350,000 US servicemen and maybe 1,000,000 Iraqis would be alive today.

58

Vehm Gericht,

Im Schnoor 29/10/2007 11:21:46

#62. 57Nomad, california - A "history" lesson from a Yank - is there anything quite so side-splittingly hillarious.
"If we wanted an empire, we would colonize Europe. With the exception of GB, who would at least resist, every other country in Western Europe would capitulate upon request" - This one statement alone shows you to be an idiot or a troll. In the highly unlikely event of armed conflict between the USA and Western Europe, the regular forces of these countries alone would be a match for the US Army:
France - 259,050
Germany - 284,500
Spain - 177,950
Italy - 230,350
Denmark - 22,880
Belgium - 40,800
UK - 187,970
Perhaps you could try your "compelling phone call" to bring about the surrender of Iraqi insurgents.
The US Forces have always been lavishly equipped by Western European standards but this is not always matched by the quality of the personnel.
Try not to be so silly; such a conflict will never take place.

59

Home_Sweet_Home,

Who Cares 29/10/2007 12:14:16

Dont make the common mistake of equating America with whichever buffoon is in the Oval Office.

True, America's standing in the world has been damaged immesuarbly by Bush, but it is still a great nation and a great symbol. Ronald Reagan too damaged our standing with some, improved it with others, and Clinton improved it with most.

Given time, the US will (or should) find its feet again and lead by example rather than force.


 

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