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Labour to challenge poll result

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Published Date: 06 May 2007
THE Labour party is planning to snatch electoral victory from the Nationalists by preparing a legal challenge over a Holyrood seat which the SNP won by a handful of votes.
Labour party lawyers are planning to contest the result in Cunninghame North, which the Nationalists won by just 48 votes, giving them a one-seat victory.

But with an estimated 1,000 spoiled ballot papers having been declared at the count, and amid allegations of missing ballot papers, the party has begun moves to have the entire election reviewed and, if necessary, taken to an Electoral Court.

Labour party managers in the constituency have also written to the count's returning officer to demand that all the spoiled ballot papers be made publicly available and re-examined.

They believe the errors disproportionately affected the party in the count, and led to their loss.

Any review of the result would throw last Thursday's dramatic election into chaos. If Labour managed to overturn the result in their favour, they would overtake the SNP as the biggest party, handing them four more years as the leading party at Holyrood.

The SNP branded Labour "sore losers" over the attempts last night, and insisted that there was no way that any legal challenge would be accepted.

But a senior Labour party source insisted: "Our lawyers are poring over this and aren't ruling out legal action. Last year, the Respect party took the results in three local government elections to the Electoral Court. There is established law in this area and we will look into it."

The action was confirmed by the agent of Allan Wilson, the defeated Labour candidate in the constituency.

Pat McGlynn said: "I have written to the returning officer asking that we can manually inspect the ballot papers. I expect to see that the vast number of them show that people made the mistake of voting for Labour but then not voting for the candidate." "There was total confusion about this," he added.

The Cunninghame North count is now mired in claim and counter-claim about further problems. It is said that 100 votes cast on Arran were not accounted for.

Independent candidate Campbell Martin said: "There were discrepancies of around 100 votes between those that were counted in Arran and those that were counted in Irvine [where the count was held]. But the returning officer said he would go ahead anyway."

There were also claims that some of the votes from Arran were soaked during the journey by ferry and may therefore have been unable to be counted.

Martin added: "A lot of people saw the Scottish Labour party on the regional list and thought to themselves that they were voting for Allan Wilson. People were so confused. So many of them voted on the regional list but left the constituency one blank."

The failure to mark the constituency vote is now being seen as the main reason for the staggering number of spoiled ballot papers which were recorded. As many as 100,000 votes were not recorded, out of the electorate of just over two million.

International observers yesterday condemned the Scottish election as "totally unacceptable" and compared it with the fiasco of the 'hanging chads' in the US elections of 2000.

However, the winner in Cunninghame North last night hit back at Labour's claims. Kenny Gibson, the SNP candidate, said: "This is sour grapes by the Labour party. If they want to waste their time on this then that is up to them. Everyone knew about these problems on the night and they accepted it then, so I don't know why they are going to legal action now."

The reason for the high number of spoiled papers is now to be the subject of an inquiry. The fiasco has been blamed on the fact that council elections using a new voting system were held on the same day as the Scottish Parliament elections. Also blamed is the design of the Scottish Parliament ballot paper, which critics claim was not clear enough for voters.

Professor John Curtice of Strathclyde University has calculated that if the Cunninghame North seat was handed to Labour, they would win the election, as the SNP does not have enough votes to be compensated with a regional list 'top-up' seat.

Page 1 of 1

 
1

,

06/05/2007 02:04:15
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2

Jimmyczz,

06/05/2007 02:06:22

The idea that the Labour party can somehow ignore the election result and retain power is beyond belief. Accept the democratic will of the people Jack, hand over the reins of power with dignity and goodwill and not in a surly bad mannered way.

3

Richardinho,

06/05/2007 02:07:48

Ok-but then lets check ALL the votes. Not just the ones that suit the Labour party.

4

Not Brian Taylor,

06/05/2007 02:09:00

The LABOUR party institute the most horrendous balls-up of the election system since Old Sarum c.1832.

The LABOUR party lose umpteen FPTP seats to the SNP.

The LABOUR party lose their unchallenged 50-year-old plularity.

The LABOUR party lose all but two of their council fiefdoms.

And now... the LABOUR party go to court to contest the election result.

LABOUR - the party of "we'll do anything".

AGENT McCONNELL - RETURN TO BASE - YOUR JOB IS OVER

5

Ian_,

usa 06/05/2007 02:09:47

If they lose in the courts will they take it to the House of Lords? This all sounds familiar....

6

Bill, Dunblane,

06/05/2007 02:14:53

Don't be stupid.

Labour have an absolute right to rule, regardless of any polls.

A can of worms, - many other results could be challenged, or better still a re-run of the entire election. Lib Dems and Tories would lose nearly ALL of their votes - a straight two way fight between Labour and SNP.

I'd be up for that!

7

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 02:16:29

no surprise to this one, but if it happens and is successful, I can see the lawyers asking for a few favours in return .. after all, don't forget only a few weeks ago we were getting threats from the legal profession they were going to kill the election until prisoners got voting rights ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6294973.stm

It's great how some can get lawyers to do anything for them, but others cant .. although what this will do is only put Labour & the lawyers in an even worse light than they already are ...

8

Flabskin,

Badfort 06/05/2007 02:18:16

Ten years of 'Education, Educayshun, Ejookayshin'...

The chickens come home to roost.

9

Richardinho,

06/05/2007 02:19:00

Is this the same Labour party who told us the SNP would land us in endless constitutional disputes?

10

NickT,

Aberdeen 06/05/2007 02:30:43

Another four years of McConnel - with John Major-style knife-edge votes, losses and impotence, but without Major's moral legitimacy as national leader - it really is the SNP's dream scenario. With 47 MSPs, Salmond would flounder.
If Labour are foolish enough to elbow the Scottish people out of the way and dive-bomb into the quicksand - celebrate! Salmond would ROUT McConnel in 2011.

11

Wisnaeme,

06/05/2007 02:32:44

.
I do sincerely hope labour will foolishly challenge the result. As someone who commented said, "it would open a can of worms". It would indeed. A full judicial inquiry and nothing but is required to salvage some integrity from this shambles they called an election.Labour are responsible for setting up this all talking,all dancing proceedure which didn't quite perform to the expectations of Mr Alexander and company. Or did it? Even most unionist commentators agree that it was a shambles but was it something more than that? I for one would like the can of worms opened and served up cold to those labour cretins to swallow and digest in public. Perceived by most observers as incompetent or worse, more than just a judicial inquiry is required, perhaps involvement by the european courts may also be a neccessity to rid us of this tarnished image of a banana republic dependent on others for the means to have a perceived non accountable establishment or political fraternity muttering self serving platitudes of lessons were learned. Folk are angry, folk of all political leanings are bluidy angry and the blame lies firmly at the door of Labour and the establishment.
.

12

Ian_,

usa 06/05/2007 02:37:14

#11 NickT. Agreed. Plus, if you consider Brown being PM it's a particularly sweet dream.

13

Navvy,

06/05/2007 02:48:33

Labour are out by the system which they set up. Let us go forward

14

Is mise,

06/05/2007 02:49:22

From a post I saw in another forum, the SNP had about 50000 more votes in Scotland than the Labour party. I might be wrong with the actual number, but they did poll more votes. Face the facts Mr McConnell.

The antics of the labour mafia are simply ridiculous. Can the SNP also see the spoilt papers in Aberdeen Central where the Labour party won by just 350 votes? The spoilt papers hit all parties and now the labour party seem to be saying that every spoilt paper was a vote for them.

Sore loosers indeed. I thought that they'd be mature enough to accept defeat, but clearly not. With this sort of childish behaviour if they did re-run the entire election again I'd think we'd see an even stronger vote for the SNP.

15

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 02:49:37

#12. Wisnaeme

Spot on . .the can of worms will be rather large with many trailing from it I fear ...

Probably, these ballot papers were tested on people before they were used .. with results similar to what we just got in the election - so some people knew we would be in for a bit of trouble ...

Now, with the SNP putting "Alex Salmond for First Minister" on the ballot rather than just the name of their party, maybe just the chaos which some people knew would happen, didn't take a move like the SNPs into account and here we are now with SNP ahead on 1 seat ...

.. and with Labour peers as directorrs of the firm which handled the voting ... http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23395179-detai...
.. the coincidences are coming out thick and fast.

I don't think all those voting papers will survive it to a proper inquiry though .. whats the odds that some will turn up in refuse tips, and maybe those skips near the Court of Session in the next few weeks ...

16

Richardinho,

06/05/2007 02:58:57

I thought putting 'Alex Salmond for First Minister' on the ballot paper a bit of a daft idea when i heard it, but when i actually saw the ballot paper I realised it was just as well;

the BNP symbol was a thistle with the letters 'BNP' in it. I have pretty good eyesight, but even to me it looked remarkably like 'SNP'.

had the SNP not taken this course of action, as well as 100,000 spoilt ballots, we could have had 100,000 mistaken votes for the BNP.

now that would have been an embarassment to Scotland.

17

Statsman,

06/05/2007 03:07:17

If I have to put up with Joke for another four years, I will be livid.

18

jamurai,

06/05/2007 03:09:20

re.#15 Can anyone tell me what the actual total percentages of the national vote each party got?

19

Dave B,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 03:13:28

Labour are grasping at straws here.
If the SNP did well on the regional vote which was first, then they most likely suffered the most in lost constituency votes, if indeed many voters only voted once.

Labour need to accept the result with good grace.

20

J M Milligan,

Scot/USA 06/05/2007 03:18:01

Oh Golly Gosh what a surprise...I mean to say, we wouldn't expect this from labour.
No, no, No, not the up standing straight as a dye labour?
Mercy me, they are as honest as the day is long... a day in the Alaska winter.

21

"Suck"-=-McCrunchie,

Dont vote it just encourages them 06/05/2007 03:21:08

The entire election was a farce.

Sadly now the important issue appears to be winning rather than offering a representative range of politicians to match the electorates selections.

THe entire thing needs to be rerun to stop us looking like a banana republic.

22

AlanSmart,

Falkirk West 06/05/2007 03:22:10

Nothing surprises me now with this shower, Rather than say they are sorry and immediately sack the people responsible for the ballot scandal - Secretary of State for Scotland, Douglas Alexander MP and Under Secretary of State David Cairns MP - all the Labour Party’s energies are going into to this legal challenge, against a system they invented for narrow partisan reasons.

They should give up power gracefully - think of the implications if their appeal actually won. But the “family business” that is the Scottish Labour party, knows no wider public interest. And their lawyers are probably on Legal Aid, or on promise that if they run up bill they will get it back via North Lanarkshire council, the last bastion of Labour Power in Scotland. Or are card carriers. Or probably all three

These people really should be run out of town. No harm to the good people of Arran, but with Jack already there and Allan Wilson a familiar local face, and David Cairns and Wee Dougie only a ferry ride away, maybe the island could become a politcal quarantine zone, a palce where all theses rejected labourites could go far a few years and do soem useful community work , repair paths on Goat fell etc.. Poll Pot without the skulls.

I digress. My main point is that the guilty should not be allowed to beenfit from their own mess.

Lets keep the pressure up on ths incompetent hypocrites by not jus signing but actvely networking this e-petiton againt Thursday's Voting scandal

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ScottishVoteScandal2007/

PS And Allan Wilson - get a real job. The gravy train's over

23

Ian_,

usa 06/05/2007 03:28:43

#20 jamurai. I had also wondered about that. I don't know how definitive this site is, but it certainly has a lot of detailed information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_election...

24

Willie Macleod,

Wick 06/05/2007 03:29:54

I dont think Labour should challenge the result,but if the positions were reversed the SNP would be doing exactly the same

25

sceptic,

livingston 06/05/2007 03:31:48

Blair and Brown are so used to changing the rules retrospectively they now think they can do it with an election. Time they were cut down to size.

26

StopTheNumpties,

Oops, too late 06/05/2007 03:39:47

The world looks on amusedly as Scotland decides to replace one group of of numpties with another.

27

lorren,

usa 06/05/2007 03:49:02

No foul up in England with the voting apparatus.!!!!!

They hadn't a hope there, oh but Scotland that's different. They were counting on confusion at the polling stations and probably assisting confusion. LABOUR will stop at nothing to stop us

Congratulations SNP The Best Men Won.

28

jamurai,

06/05/2007 03:49:30

Thanks Ian

29

argonaut,

musselburgh 06/05/2007 03:51:11

i wonder how labour would act if they had won by one seat...there is no danger that the anti christ mcconnell can ever be first minister..snp won and thats that.....
over my dead body that labour will be allowed to ? this result. the voting system was shambles but thats down to labour.......
end off

30

lorren,

usa 06/05/2007 03:55:04

Post # 25
I would sign your petition, but you are asking for money. Ive signed many petitons but none have ever asked for money to sign. ]what is going on.??
All my spare money goes to the SNP party. Why does a petion require money first in order to be allowed to sign. Is this a scam ?

31

David Burness,

Larkhall 06/05/2007 04:08:25

The postal ballot fiasco is equally alarming here. If we take it that Labour is assuming stupid people vote for them so they have most to gain from examining the spoilt papers, is it not fair to assume that ex patriots, persons abroad on business, those clever enough to book a Ryanair flight online would likely NOT have voted for Labour a reasonable assumption too? Either the parties should accept the result with its flaws or the election should be re-run. Also in the BBC UK reports I saw a lot of patronising of Scots, but no mention of the media Black & Tans deluge we've been subjected to here for weeks. The electors have been bullied by the government. In Russia much is made of the Kremlin control of the press. What have we been subjected to here?

32

vampirekiller,

SCOTLAND! 06/05/2007 04:21:45

How comes this reminds me of dogs..t sticking on my shoesole?

33

Ian_,

usa 06/05/2007 04:31:49

When I was a student, people like Jack Straw seemed to me to be part of the radical left. I lumped all the prominent Labour people like Blair and Brown into that same group. More recently I've read about Labour wanting ID cards and the House of Lords (the bloody House of Lords!) opposing it. I've seen a Labour leader take the UK into an insane war to accompany the Americans, and last week I read about Gordon Brown saying (in effect) he wouldn't work with Alex Salmond. There's more (such as the subject of this article), but what's going on? Did I enter the Twilight Zone some time ago? Labour have managed to make the Tories look OK.

34

craigy,

s.lanarkshire 06/05/2007 04:34:14

lorren, you dont have to make contribution to add your name to the petition. but you can if you want,i think it helps pay for the site and also for the development of the site

35

Jim A,

06/05/2007 04:39:04

Hmmm, this reminds me of the fiasco of an election that got Bubba the chimp elected as president of the United States. Is Joke resorting to Bubba's tactics?

36

Jimmy the Pie,

North Sea 06/05/2007 04:39:04

Labour are showing themselves to be sore losers. Mind you hardly surprising given their track record over the last 50 years.

Charlatans, rogues and comic singers all of them with not a shred of dignity!!

Vote SNP twice in the re-run???

37

Dekester,

Canadas westcoast 06/05/2007 04:46:11

This is really frightening stuff.

The look in the ex first ministers eyes is manical.

All politicians are devious. My experience though is that the ones on the socialist side of the spectrum, are intoxicated with power. They also seem to believe that they always know best, and I mean always. Especially ex teacher politicians.

Let us hope Scotland leaves this alone, and let the inquiry make suggestions for the NEXT go round.

38

MacEwans_Ghost,

Seattle, USA 06/05/2007 04:59:19

How typical of the Labour party to take such a tactic, but then again, like the Democratic party here in the USA, they'll find any ticky-tak technicality possible to explain away the will of the people and ignore results. Oh I know, it's not just one party or the other, EVERY party seeking political power and majority would cause a similar row, but this is a gleeful embarassment for Labour and I hope they end up with stale haggis on their faces for acting like spoilt children. Let the wind of change blow in Scotland, it's sorely needed and if by some miracle a re-election was held, please SNP voters, blow Labour out of the water for this tirade and give them an even stringer vote of no confidence.

39

Njal,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 05:01:55

The next thing I'm expecting to hear is that Kirsty Wark and her company will be producing a documentary on the election shambles for BBC Scotland . . .

40

PDdod,

peterhead 06/05/2007 05:15:33

After reading the views expressed here I can only conclude "They're shyt'n themselves"

41

I'm no really here,

06/05/2007 05:21:33

The Labour Government in Westminster and the Executive went ahead with this election format despite good professional advice. Now they loose it and want to challenge it.

Lets see the people's reaction to this.

42

Kiltedblue2,

Offshore North Sea/Fairlie 06/05/2007 05:21:51

Well done to my fellow Peasant friends in Cunninghame North, we have gubbed the money grabbin, tax raising parasites.

I hope Brown is now having a word with Jowell and all the gravy train members to re-adjust the financing for the LONDON!!!! Olympics cause come 2012 ye'll no be gettin any dosh fae SCOTLAND like ye were plannin, as we will be our own country.

You will rape our country no more Brown, oh and by the way, better get yersel a passport tae, if ye are still gonnae live doon there and think ye can use Scotland as your 'holiday home'.

FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

43

I'm no really here,

06/05/2007 05:25:39

If the count was so close did they not ask for a recount at the time?? And if they did, did they not like the result??

Bring it it on Hurricane Jeck, and many of the Labour supporters who DIDN'T vote will turn against you.

44

I'm no really here,

06/05/2007 05:32:40

If you thought the vote was chaos, just imagine what it will be like if that vote is overturned and LD's form another coalition with Labour.

45

nvlawyer,

Las Vegas, Nevada 06/05/2007 05:58:07

Just like the Bush/Gore Fiasco. The Democrats just wanted to count those ballots in the counties where they could win without opening it all to a recount in all counties.

The Florida courts were going to allow it, but the U.S. Supreme Court stepped in and said no. You can't pick and choose which ballots you are going to have recounted and ignore the rest. Either recount them all or none at all.

Go SNP!

46

An Australian,

edinburgh 06/05/2007 06:01:47

#12: Labour cannot be held responsible for the innability of Scottish 'voters' to read the ballot paper...

47

Papa G,

South Lanarkshire 06/05/2007 06:02:18

Surely it was the labour/Lib dem pact that approved the election in the form that we had.

The apparent problems should have been foreseen and a better education program launched.

The advice or lack of it given by Polling Station staff when handing over the ballot papers would also have a bearing upon how the elector performed.

Lets have a change at Holyrood.

48

,

06/05/2007 06:07:13
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49

Joe90,

Erehwon 06/05/2007 06:09:06

If Labour succeed in this despicable ploy, it could be the end of true democracy in Scotland....

50

Birnamo,

Balerno 06/05/2007 06:18:02

Talk about stupidity - Labour make the first mistake of trying to terrify us into voting for them and they now set out to gain power by challenging the resulting outcome.

As has been said above they would trigger a complete re-run of their self created disaster. There may be a better option of their dimwitted Executive being sued for bringing Scotland into disrepute.

Let them start proceedings as long as we the people do not carry the costs.

In such a shambles of electoral mismanagement the scenario is farcical. Get Tommy Sheridan back to act as their advocate - now there's an idea.

They would now welcome a constitutional crisis!

Still if they try this irresponsuble ruse they will be done for forever.

51

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 06:23:25

Who are they challanging? themselves?

51
I suppose they are not responsible for the missing postal votes either.

52

Flabskin,

Badfort 06/05/2007 06:35:36

The declaration I most enjoyed, in a perverse kind of way, was Cumbernauld.

Across the board: a 10% swing to the SNP.

In Cumbernauld, the SNP's number one target seat: Nu-lab back in with an increased majority.

Err... aye. That'll be right.

I've a feeling that a careful scrutiny of the voting patterns in that fellae would see a few north lanarkshire labour rats scuttling for their sewers...

53

Kenny A,

Not Scotland 06/05/2007 06:37:56

An interesting scenario, if this goes ahead I think the SNP will be pretty happy. Clear decision by the majority of voters for SNP. If results are challanged and overturned, the nationilists can point out it was a flawed voting system that was run by ex-labour big wig (Kinnock) (to an extent). It would also get them of the hook as the majority won by was not a lot. Additionaly it would make labour seem to be a party which would try any tactic possible to overturn the barrel of worms they have managed to create, Lib Dems then would have to go cap in hand to McConnel to gain a place at the feasting trough showing all that they care about is a position of power regardless of who they deal with.

Never thought I would say it but the Conservatives are the ones winning the high ground on this one. Easy when no other choice I guess.

From watching the news, a lot of shouting its not my fault it went wrong but I'm going to challange it in the courts anyway. If this voting system was designed to show Scotland in a bad light in the international community, then it was a resounding success.

54

donald,

weegieland 06/05/2007 06:42:25

What about the disenfanchised 100,000 voters and many more confused voters who wouldwish the option to solve the matter properly?

No point in a recount in one constituency. Why run not a re- election?

55

lia,

stockton-on-tees 06/05/2007 06:51:57

last sunday i commented that i thought you were all wasteing your time voteing snp as labour would never give up power, don't be so stupid you said, well,lol who's the stupid ones now

56

James,

Dundee 06/05/2007 06:52:45

Labour can't be allowed to pick which votes are to be recounted.

If this goes as a full rerun then UN/EU observers should be called in.

Also the postal ballots(those which made it that is!) were apparently counted prior to main count. They should be counted at the same time.

Again questions must be asked.

La-boo-hoo-ur will be foolish to go down this road.

57

,

06/05/2007 06:55:15
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58

Open Minded,

06/05/2007 06:57:04

Any discussions about a re run / re count etc. should be subject to the immediate resignation of Douglas Alexander.

59

rab, glasgow,

06/05/2007 06:58:02

Looks like joke mc loser will have to be dragged out of bute hoose kicking and screaming like a demented numpty.
Yer pathetic jack, an embarassment to the whole of scotland.

60

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 06:58:50

On Friday night on ths forum, I predicted that something like this would happen and that the unholy unionist alliance (especially the Lib Dems) would do everything and anything in its power to hold on to government. I stick by my forecast that Nicol Stephen will be First Minister in a unionist coalition with Labour which will also involve an "understanding" with the Tories voting on an issue by issue basis. Absolutely disgraceful.

61

STEADYEDDIE,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 07:04:39

Lets have an enquiry
Lets have observers
lets do it again
lets waste millions of pounds instead of getting on with running the country

62

mtba,

Dundee 06/05/2007 07:05:21

No point in a recount in one constituency. Why run not a re- election, if its wrong in one place why not in more, so Labour can't be allowed to pick which votes are to be recounted.
So if one counts wrong then all are wrong so a new entire election

63

Murdo F,

Aberdeen 06/05/2007 07:06:10

The whole election was a shambles just as much for the Nats as it was for Labour . The Nats won and the result must stand; though it sticks in my throat to say so!

64

,

06/05/2007 07:10:25
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65

DSW,

Indonesia 06/05/2007 07:12:11

Joke McConnell - as UNgracious in defeat as ever! Accept it Joke, Labour got beat, and you would carry a lot more, well ok, a wee drop, credit if you would accept that.

Maybe you would like to poll the 40 odd% of voters who didn't bother to vote - I'm sure they'll all be Labour supporters too and you can count them in and win back every seat. Well why not? It's no more a dirty trick than you're already considering.

History was made, ballot paper shambles an all, so please delete "First Minister" from your letter heading Joke, - you blew it!

66

Mev Brown,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 07:13:19

Labour have just realised how completely incompetent they are.

Everything they touch turns into a disaster, the NHS, law & order, education, elections.

They take something that works. Implement some of their “improvements” and then watch things collapse around and then tell everybody “look how much money we have invested”.

They really are clueless.

67

Dickie Dickson,

06/05/2007 07:15:28

Labour are misjudging the mood of the people here (AGAIN). They seem to think they've been cheated or robbed. If they try to take this further, they'll be causing themselves problems electorally for the next few years - see what happened to the Democrats after 2000.

Nobody likes a sore loser!

68

,

06/05/2007 07:18:19
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69

frhugh,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 07:19:17

The no. of spoilt papers (100,000+) plus the no. of the electorate who were deprived of their right to vote by the postal vote fiasco makes this election de facto non-democratic.
In a country of our size, these numbers are far too high to be ignored.
(Before I proceed, I think it may add some validity to my view, to tell the other posters that I did not vote for either the Labour Party nor the SNP. I left the Labour Party many years ago.) So my view is not caught-up in the Labour v SNP slanging match of many of the above posters.
What are the truly practical solutions available.
If we want the election to be truly representative, as all true democratic people of whatever political persuasion would surely desire, then I think that morally there simply has to be a mandatory re-election AFTER the findings of an independant public inquiry; This, of course, will take time to effect.
In the meantime, repeating that I did not vote SNP nor Labour, morally the SNP has the right to elect the First Minister it would appear.
I have no idea how long an independent inquiry would take. Therefore, I suggest that we all wait until their findings are made public; their recommendations implemented, and then let ALL the electorate decide, in a clear fashion, whom they wish to run the country.
Having two elections, with two different voting systems on the same day, has proven to be disastrous.

70

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 07:20:52

I for one would be delighted to see the whole election run again and very carefully scutinised by outside observers. Especially the postal votes.
In fact its imperative that we do the whole thing again for our own credibility abroad.
I am confident that the SNP will come out with a larger majority although they will still need to form a coalition Government.

71

Mugen,

edinburgh 06/05/2007 07:21:17

rise and be a nation again... hahahahaha yea right
the population are too thick to follow simple instructions.. mixing numbers and anything else is too much of a stretch.
the country cant count the ballots or oranise an election..
Scotland is a joke, a subsidy junky and sadly proud of it..
pure dead brilliant indeed...

72

jackitin,

dundee 06/05/2007 07:22:08

No wonder that labour are against the suggested judicial review of the vote counting fiasco as Neil Kinnock, the former labour leader, is a director of DRS Data Services who were awarded the £8.9 million contract to count the votes by the labour scottish executive.

73

Thomas the Tank,

Embra 06/05/2007 07:22:10

Never mind the 'Hanging Chads' comparison - this story has echoes of the last days of the Soviet Union, when the Kremlin Old Guard tried to stage a coup d'etat, sending in the troops to crush rising democracy.
Fortunately, most of the Army are abroad as a result of Tony Bliar's disastrous foreign policies. C'mon Alex Salmond, get up on the Tank and appeal direct to an even higher Court - the Scottish People - We've spoken!!

74

Encephalon,

06/05/2007 07:23:37

#66 "Looks like joke mc loser will have to be dragged out of bute hoose kicking and screaming like a demented numpty."


Sure we could find plenty of volunteers ready to assist!

Labour really do belong back behind the iron-curtain -they are a national embarrassment-no wonder the English want shot of the Scottish Labour Mafia-so do we. They were entirely responsible for the ballot shambles and now they want to hold a recount in one seat where they lost by a narrow margin.

Unbelievable-do they really think we are all that stupid?

75

Jock ex 45Cdo RM 2,

Thornhill 06/05/2007 07:23:51

Labour ex pats needed.
Gordon 'Prudence' Brown, John 'Rotweller' Reid, Des 'Profoundly Sad' Browne, Tony Bliar,
'Paper Boy' McCartney, Joke McConnel needs you now, as his skills as a maths teacher will be tested on a general recount .

76

Anne, Glasgow,

06/05/2007 07:24:01

If Labour get to go ahead with this recount, then all other very small marginal wins should be recounted as well, plus folk who didn't get their postal vote. Well, we really should really re-run the election again and Labour will get a kicking as they will have scunnered even more people. Anyway, I thought a recount had to happen on the night or at the presentation of the results not a few days later!!???? Finally, Douglas Alexander should be held to account for all of this, how funny his very own party is having the problem, hehe!!!

77

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 07:24:19

70

If Labour are allowed a rerun or recount then the flood gates would indeed open for all parties and I believe you would call that an own goal.

78

Kenny A,

Not Scotland 06/05/2007 07:24:48

#72

Cant figure out this dribble, but I liked it

79

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfropolis 06/05/2007 07:29:32

#34. lorren, usa / 4:55am 6 May 2007

I've signed the petition. Once you click 'NEXT' your comments are recorded and it takes you to a page where it requests a voluntary donation to maintain the website. It is NOT a pay as you protest petition.


It's time, Jack.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Tiz6INF7I

80

Kenny A,

Not Scotland 06/05/2007 07:32:17

#79

Kinnock probably wants a recount as he will no doubt get the contract, more money down the tubes, as for this voting system being complex, showed my five year old the papers the other day and it was simple for her to understand.

Scary thought that 100k or so called grown up voters cant get it correct or more probably the folks doing the counting were clueless.

81

JJ52,

06/05/2007 07:33:50

The one thing that is clear here, is the vote in England. The English would rather have a TORY gov. Than a Brown Gov. If this court action is sucessfull then Scotland will be worse off.

82

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfropolis 06/05/2007 07:35:41

Here's how complicated some people made it...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/192/486011170_ca38cf0839_o...

83

KeithD,

fife 06/05/2007 07:39:25

Let's have a re-run and we'll see just how much the Labour party are popular in Scotland after this latest statement from them.SNP would win hands down and there would be no need to have another party other than the Lib-dems for a coalition.

84

Le Drapeau Noir,

Gorgie Road 06/05/2007 07:41:31

May 3rd 2007...Democracy In Scotland ....RIP

85

Ubi,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 07:42:25

They go down this road at their peril. Democracy is sacrosanct until we find a better system. By dismissing it they create the very real prospect of direct action in an electorate already fed up with the antics of politicians.

86

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 07:43:01

87

Or the ballots were spoilt after they were handed in.

87

Royster,

06/05/2007 07:45:17

#31. Forget your conspiracy theories. The voting system in England is no where near as complex.

88

Iain Ban,

Berlin 06/05/2007 07:45:53

There is something very sinster about this whole issue. The SNP lead in the opinion polls before the election amouts to the number of spoilt ballot papers. New Labour tried to rig the election and should never be allowed to run Scotland again. Ever.

89

Royster,

06/05/2007 07:47:07

Lorren. Are you British or American?

90

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 07:49:07

This election becomes more incredible by the minute. I have just read that the SNP have chosen John Swinney to represent the party in coalition discussions. Unbelievable.

91

Porry,

06/05/2007 07:49:22

What is Labour's argument now? People wanted to vote for us but did not understand how they were supposed to do it. How come others understood the procedure perfectly well? Must have been a bunch of extremely "smart" people, those "Labour supporters".

92

,

06/05/2007 07:50:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
93

Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 07:50:54

After the result was announced, an expert in Scots Law and U.K. constitutional law was interviewed regarding this matter and stated that it was highly unlikely any candidate would be successful on appeal? This is clearly a delaying tactic on the part of the Labour Party to prevent the Nationalists forming the next Executive!
However, no doubt lawyers everywhere are rubbing their hands and pouring over the contents of the Scotland Act? Lachie Todd

94

Royster,

06/05/2007 07:51:21

There is nothing wrong with a recount when the majority is only 48 votes as long as the rejected ballot papers are open to public scrutiny by an independent panel and the press. However, in the interest of the UK it might better for Labour to leave things as they are and simply form a government with the Tories and the Greens.

95

BROCCEO,

West Lothian 06/05/2007 07:52:50

The ruling party at the time (ie Labour) accepted the voting arrangements in advance so why whine now just because they lost. In any case, if folk are unwilling to find out in advance what they need to do at a polling station and/or cannot follow simple instructions, then that is just tough. Not good for democracy perhaps but tough nonetheless.
If a re-run is required in this particular seat, then let's re-run the whole election. Presumably the Labour party can find rich donors to foot the bill. Perhaps in a re-run Labour will lose by even more. That would serve them right for wasting money again.

96

NightWorker,

perth, ontario 06/05/2007 07:52:58

sore loosers

97

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 07:54:22

101

Royster. You may well be correct.

98

Royster,

06/05/2007 07:54:56

#34. Lorren, it is illegal for non-residents of the UK to fund UK political parties. Is the SNP taking cash from abroad?

99

Encephalon,

06/05/2007 07:55:12

#8 truly amazing!

Perhaps we should recognise that rather than being a laughing stock after holding a flawed election "The greatest wee country in the world" is actually ahead of the game-forget about all this democracy nonsense-so revolutionary 19th century-in future we will be an "intellectocracy" and ballot papers will be designed as an IQ test to effectively disenfranchise the intellectually challenged.

Upside - more money for the arts!

100

Encephalon,

06/05/2007 08:00:18

#104 Yes indeed it is and of course Labour would know all about who to accept cash donations from and in what circumstances!


People in glass houses..............

101

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 08:01:30

101

With a difference in 48 votes you better believe that it was recounted at least 5 or 6 times before it was announced. If Labour claim foul they will have to blaim the setup and the missing votes which will open the flood gates everywhere else.
I hope they win their argument.

102

connaughtboy,

06/05/2007 08:01:59

#41 Dekester

Completely agree with you about socialists being intoxicated by power. I will never forget the look on Tony Blair's face a couple of hours after the invasion of Iraq had started. Try as he might he could not disguise his excitement at sending the troops to war. From that moment on I classed him as a fantasist. Even I couldn't believe how extreme he would become over the next four years. I see much the same thing in McConnell both during the election campaign and now in the aftermath. He should never have been in a position to run our country and thankfully he never will again.

The "legal" challenge has zero chance of success. There is no way that any court will overturn the result.

103

GrahamH,

06/05/2007 08:03:06

Labour just can't accept it's not their ball now and they can't take it home when they lose.

Should Labour pursue this, then I believe the inevitable result will be a rerun and that must suit SNP better as Labour will lose face and credibility and be seen as trying to ignore the overall will of the people and have only the areas that suit them recounted. How about all parties challenging where Labour marginally won?

Labour prolong the shambles!

104

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 08:06:00

#7 - Bill, clearly taking away the vote from the Lib Dems & Tories is the sort of democracy we can expect from the Nats?

But then we have the SNP saying a legal challenge won't be accepted ..... what by them? The dont write the law. Lose the arrogance, it isn't becoming for a minority party that is scratching around looking for partners so that it can scramble into power.

The World is watching.... and laughing.

105

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 08:06:52

101

An executive with Labour Tory and Greens its a dream come true for Scotland.
Imagine if Westminster had to consider that combination for a UK government.
And theyre worried about Independence when we can have all that within the Union.

106

Iain fae Elgin,

London 06/05/2007 08:06:55

Saw an example of the ballot papers in the press down here.

If you can't work them out you deserved to be disenfranchised.

107

Royster,

06/05/2007 08:07:13

#106. If it involves funding from non-UK residents we should all be throwing stones regardless of the parties concerned. Lorren, please tell us whether or not you are a UK resident and please can you explain how come you are giving all your spare cash the SNP. You may have been the victim of a scam. I am unionist but I think the SNP is very strict about its financing so a scam seems possible.

108

Jolly,

06/05/2007 08:07:30

36 Majamalete

I read your comment with interest.

Does this mean that if voters chose parties on the left of the ballot paper, but wished to abstain from the right hand column selection, then the left hand choice was thus deemed void and disregarded??

I wonder if there is a set of regulations or counters's instructions issued to all concerned? Maybe these are available on a website? Freedom of Information??

109

walter,

06/05/2007 08:09:20

I believe that every candidate has the right to challenge the count.
I also believe they have a certain amount of time to do so although I do not know how long that is.
I am not sure of the exact rules but I would certainly not be happy if this statement is true "Independent candidate Campbell Martin said: "There were discrepancies of around 100 votes between those that were counted in Arran and those that were counted in Irvine [where the count was held]. But the returning officer said he would go ahead anyway." If it was pointed out before the results was announced that 100 votes had gone astray between them being counted in Arran and then again in Irvine and the counting officer went ahead and announced the result any way.
I would be a sore loser as well, in this case not so much by the 1000 spoilt papers but by this 100 especially if I lost by less than 100.

110

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 06/05/2007 08:09:21

Labour is no longer a political party - it is a disease. It is endemically deceitful and full of liars. It is totalitarian and is a threat to every democratic value in the UK.

It needs to be utterly wiped out, so phoenix like, a party with at least some values and conviction can arise.

111

Jolly,

06/05/2007 08:09:56

112 Iain fae Elgin

Oooohh! Very elitist!

112

Kenny A,

Not Scotland 06/05/2007 08:11:07

#93

Possible, ban golf clubs at polling booths.

#97

Superb delaying tactic though, with Swinny in charge of this there is no doubt bugger all will happen, ever. If Ross Finney is also in some co-allition may the almighty help us all. Already the signs of turpitude, ineptidue and a rew other "udes", creeping in.

As it is Sunday will let them off as it is a day of rest.

113

connaughtboy,

06/05/2007 08:12:01

#64 Young Asa

A really stupid comment. Please keep your bigoted rantings to yourself.

114

Derick fae Yell,

The World 06/05/2007 08:12:49

A legal challenge by Allan Wilson or whoever may not succeed in overturning the result
- but it will of course contribute to the tarnishing of the entire election. Presumably that is the point.

Challenge one, challenge them all.

If the election is re-run (I am strongly against this)then the following are required:
1 This time the Labour Party should not oversee the conduct of the election
2 No postal votes allowed, except for people living overseas, unless voters can produce a doctor's certificate
3 Constituency and Regional ballot papers to be on separate forms as at all previous elections
4 Sealed, metal ballot boxes to be used as at all previous elections
5 Manual public and verifiable counting of votes, as at all previous elections

115

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 08:13:55

7

Then you would be the only one in the Labour camp that would.
Those postal votes didnt go missing on their own or for no reason.
Labour are still showing the electorate that they are not fit to Govern as if their policies werent enough to convince them they have to answer for this fiasco.
It wont be forgotten or forgiven in an election rerun.

116

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 08:15:44

It will be interesting to see how the French election goes today. Bet it isn't the complete farce the Jockinese one. As for 100,000 disenfranchised, perhaps they deliberately spoilt their ballot papers because they were so disgusted with the political system and parties in Scotland?

Voting public says no to independence.

117

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 08:18:23

110

I bet they checked the legality of the claim before making that statement numnuts.
It wouldnt have been said off the cuff.

118

Iain fae Elgin,

London 06/05/2007 08:19:25

#117 Hey Jolly...nothing elitist about expecting people to read and understand a few simple instructions on a ballot paper. :)

119

Kenny A,

Not Scotland 06/05/2007 08:19:36

#115 Walter


Bloody scary that people cannot count, I number myself amoungst the thick God created but I can count. Looks like election officials are those who sometimes do no other work for whatever reason and the fate of nations rests in their hands.

Know it is a bit cynical but I saw it in action the other day and the girl doing the election count had three young childern pestering her, an old woman making tea nearby and some maniac running a heard of sheep past the voting station. I am sure however that there were no mistakes made here, so what is the excuse for the other regions where an incredible amount of cock ups have been made.

Seriously considering moving to Iceland where I have never heard of any real nonsense regarding politics.

Got that of the chest anyway.

120

Royster,

06/05/2007 08:19:59

If the Greens go in with Labour and the Tories, they can get a much better deal than with the SNP. What's more they'll have a better chance of getting their policies accepted at a UK level. Cameron is also very keen to polish his green credentials as it would boost his vote for the Westminster elections. Salmond really shouldn't have said he wouldn't work with the Tories.

121

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 08:20:10

121

If those 100000 plus spoilt papers were due to voter stupidity then one thing is obvious we are in the right Union after all.

122

,

06/05/2007 08:20:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
123

nell from falkirk,

06/05/2007 08:20:53

#34 Lorren - what money is asked for in this petition? Why are you giving "all your spare money" to the SNP?
Money to political parties is wasted money - send it to the nearest SPCA!

124

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 08:22:33

126

Maybe you can tell us what policies Labour the Tories and the Greens are going to be able to agree upon and how they will benefit Scotland.
The Greens want a referendum as well by the way.

125

Artair,

Australia 06/05/2007 08:22:43

The People of Scotland have spoken. SNP 27 to 47 Labour 54 to 50 The answer is clear. Labour back OFF and one day we may support you again.As a Scot who has been away for 50 years I might come hame.

126

Kenny A,

Not Scotland 06/05/2007 08:23:35

#122

Independence, forget it.

Jumping in the old long ship with my hoard and going to set up my own kingdom, quickest way.

First rule of my to be empire, no politicians, free beer to the masses and the rest will work out, (or for Canadian readers, oot)

127

Gavin48,

Glasgow 06/05/2007 08:25:06

This would be funny if it was not so serious. Regretably most of the comments so far mearly reflect the old politics. The facts are that 100000 people did not have there votes counted, this is a matter of deep concern to any democrat, it is however not a "Fiasco" nor "Disaster", it is not proof that the voting system was too complicated - 94% of voters managed to do it. However there is an issue which seems to be around the 2 ballot papaers for the Parliment vote being printed on the same paper, how else could the new STV system for local councils have produced very few spoiled papers. The STV system was new to all voters, introduced a new way of voting by ranking your preferencies, yet they seem to have managed to cope with this.

This is a time for leadership, for democrats of all parties to step forward and ensure this is sorted. It is also a time for media to reflect, think and inform the debate, to stop its feeding frenzy as it seems the real issues may be too complicated for them, that they would rather continue to revel in the gutter politics of the past.

128

,

06/05/2007 08:27:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
129

open,

west coast 06/05/2007 08:30:04

Former labour leader Neil Kinnock gets £33,000 as director of DRS who were responsible for the faulty election machines

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23395179-detai...


LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
http://www.ljpr.cjb.net

130

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 08:31:04

126

Maybe Labour and the Tories can get the Greens to agree to Trident and more nuclear power stations if they are allowed the first minister post.
Do you think that might work?
Or maybe Labour can get the Tories to sign up to the constitutional convention by making Goldilocks the first minister.
The permutations are endless we should have insisted on this before the elections and saved us awe the bother.

131

Royster,

06/05/2007 08:32:44

#130. Well if I were Jack McConnell, I would say to the Tories and the Greens 'Tell me what you want'. I would then give as much ground as possible and more to get them on board. I don't think a referendum is the number one policy for the Greens; apart from that they can be given anything they want on their wish list. The only implacable difference between the Tories and the Greens is Trident but that in reality is a defence issue which is Westminster's remit. The Tories will accept anything except a referendum on independence.

132

easyblues,

Glasgow 06/05/2007 08:34:17

This was unfair Jack.
1707 Bought and sold.

Earl of Marchmont recieved £1,104 17s 7d, Earl of Cromarty £300, Lord Preston Hall £200, Lord Ormiston £200, Duke of Montrose £200, Duke of Athol £1,000, Earl of Balcarras £500, Earl of Dunmoor £200, Lord Anstruther £300, Mr. Stewart of Castle Stewart £300, Earl of Eglinton £200, Lord Fraser £100, Lord Cesnock, now Polwarth, £50, Mr. John Campbel £200, Earl of Forfar £100, Sir Kenneth MacKenzie £100, Earl of Glencairn £100, Earl of Kintore £200, Earl of Findlater £100, Lord Forbes £50, John Muir, Provost of Ayr, £100, Earl of Seafield, Lord Chancellor, £490, Marquis of Tweedale £1,000, Duke of Roxburgh £500, Lord Elibank £50, Lord Bamff £11 2/-, Major Cunningham of Eckatt £100, the messenger that brought the Treaty of Union £60, Sir Wm Sharp £300, Patrick Coultrain, Provost of Wigton, £25, Mr. Alexander Wedderburn £75, the Commisioner for Equippage and Daily Allowance £12,325.

Regards, Alan.

133

Phil241106,

Airdrie 06/05/2007 08:35:45

Like I said yesterday.......
Two things bug me about this.....why did half of the electorate sit on their backsides and do nothing and why, of those who did vote, not see how badly Labour have damaged our lives and our country. Labour should have been voted out of Scotland completely. I'm not totally in favour of the SNP, but compared to Labour?? Well done Alex.

134

Em.C.Spiteri,

06/05/2007 08:36:09

The Labour just cannot accepot a loss. - spoilt brats.

135

Promethea,

Glasgow 06/05/2007 08:36:13

" So many of them voted on the regional list but left the constituency one blank."
Hang on - does this mean that if you only put one X on the Parly paper, it counts as spoiled? I voted in the left hand column but not the right hand, as I didn't want to vote for any of those 4 candidates - was that wrong?

I might be dumb, but the fact that I'm even having to ask about the paper after the event shows what a shambles this is.

136

Robert Feal-Martinez,

swindon 06/05/2007 08:36:29

Someone needs to keep a close eye on where the funds for this challenge come from. This is not a Government challenge, it is a Labour Party one. He is sickening that Labour introduce all these new systems, which patently fail, and then cry 'foul'. The sooner this bunch clear off the better for the United Kingdom and NI.

137

Royster,

06/05/2007 08:37:53

#130. Also, Westminster will be looking to move the Trident base down to Devonport so it doesn't become a bargaining chip in the event of a vote for independence. Therefore Labour and the Tories could always say a future Westminster government would be sympathetic to the removal of Trident from Scottish soil. Put it another way, what can the SNP offer the Greens that Labour and the Tories cannot?

138

caledonia,

cunninghame north 06/05/2007 08:39:39

I do not agree with Alan Wilsons "Legal "challenge,but candidates asking for a recount on a majority as slim as this one is by no means unusual,it happens in every election.For the SNP winner to call it "Soor grapes" is ridiculious,is he trying to tell us that he would not call for a recount if he lost by 48 votes?Doubt it.

139

Entres,

Scotland 06/05/2007 08:40:35

This is farcical!
First they seek to undermine those of the Scottish people, then they seek to undermine the choice of the Scottish people,
What makes them think that a legal challenge against the SNP, or the mode of voting will make one iota of difference to the way the Scottish people feel about them?
I feel another braveheart war coming on.
How dare they, presume to know what is best for us, they have left us ruins after their fiasco of the last ten years, unfinished laws and acts, incompetent people in all the top jobs, quangos by the dozen.
Time to go with some grace Jack.

140

morris,

Dun Eidean Alba 06/05/2007 08:41:20

What Labour are in effect saying is that papers from people who were too stupid to understand the system were Labour voters. That is very presumptive indeed and insulting.
However Labour were the executive who decided to adopt this system,and who were happy to contest the election under this multi system arrangement. They should accept the result instead of showing what a bunch of two faced unprincipled lying toerags they are, and throwing teddys out of prams like their overgrown baby leader Gormless Broon.
Fit to govern? You are not fit to clean toilets!

141

Bill, Dunblane,

06/05/2007 08:41:41

110 - CJO

If you read my post, I was NOT advocating taking away anyone's vote. What I said was that in a re-run of the election, the vote would polarise, and that in that situation very many Tory and Lib Dem votes would be split between the SNP and Labour.

121 - Boyce

I started my post with pure sarcasm. Anyone who reads any of my posts, will know I have no love of Labour, or Joke McConman.

68 - RBNR

You were spouting that rubbish repetatively yesterday, and answered by several other posts.

That leaves us with only two possibilies:

1. You are stupid, and do not understand the electoral process.

OR

2. You are deliberately trying to mislead people.

Using YOUR analysis, 66% of eligable voters did not vote for unionist parties.

Care to elaborate?

142

Steve Foley,

England 06/05/2007 08:43:42

Labour? Rank bad losers. If they feel that the Cunninghame North result is open to challenge then the whole lot should be re-run given the cock-up with the Postal Votes and the confusion of the Multiple Papers.

If there are definite irregularities in the way the Poll was conducted or the votes counted then a defeated Candidate can challenge the result. This however can be a double edged sword as the result can be declared Void and the complainant will not necessarily win the subsequent By-Election. This happened to the Tories Gerald Malone in 1997. He lost Winchester to the Liberal Mark Oaten by 2 votes after a number of recounts. Malone challenged the result and a By-Election was held which the Liberals won with a majority of 20,000! They still hold the seat two General Elections.

A genuine and provable irregularity in a poll is one thing but simply challenging an Election because you didn't like the result no matter how narrow does not give you valid grounds to have it overturned.

I feel that Labour should simply accept the situation in Cunninghame North and if the SNP cannot form a viable coalition at Holyrood it should see if it can do so instead although if it were able to get the Liberals and Greens on board it would not have Margo Mac Donald or the Tories and would be hard pressed to govern.

143

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 08:43:55

If people can't fill in a ballot paper correctly then unfortunately they have lost their vote and since the current administration came up with the papers they are ultimately responsible for those lost votes.

Labour are now acting in complete desperation.

They desperately want to pretend the result didn't happen and I wouldn't put it past them to engineer a deal with their unionist pals in the Tories and Lib Dems to ignore the result and try and freeze the SNP out of power.

144

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 08:45:04

The time to call for a recount is at the election ITSELF, ON THE NIGHT. Doing it afterwards because you know your party lost by one seat stinks of utter desperation.

145

Alistair Stewart,

MARCH FOR DEMOCRACY 06/05/2007 08:47:56

IF THE NEW LABOUR UNDEMOCRATIC LYING PARTY manage to get enough crooked friendly lawyers and an assortment of Unionist collusionists to overturn a fair and square result in Cunningham then I suggest we all get out onto the streets of Edinburgh and siege Holyrood!!

This MUST not be allowed to happen.

The SNP won this election - no sleazy Labour machinery should be allowed to change it.


We did it in 2005 – we can March again!!!

146

Dave M,

06/05/2007 08:48:51

Its obvious really.

Muriel 'Supreme Being' Gray should be asked to adjudicate.

147

James,

Dundee 06/05/2007 08:49:07

#144
Any straws left to grasp?

Or are you finished?

Quite a ludicrous scenario you propose sir!

Labour in coalition with the Tories indeed.

Running Scotland by proxy from London, would Brown and Cameron sanction this?

148

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 08:49:10

#133 Kenny A - they wont let you settle in Iceland as you are not either Icelandic or married to an Icelander (I presume) if you are then probably a safe bet.

149

Njal,

06/05/2007 08:52:00

*41*108 Totally agree.
I've been in the back garden over the past few weekends sorting out this and that. I've got a nice wee white rose that's been coming on for a couple of years now and I've also got a rambling liar which has tended to run wild whenever I look the other way. I remember the old adage about a weed being a flower we can't see the beauty of, however, this rambler would take over the entire garden if I let it. So, inspired by our recent election result, I dug the whole plant out and have cleared the ground for the wee plant to flourish. It's only a first step but the view from my window's looking much brighter already.

150

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 08:53:22

151

Joe, the papers are saying that Labour asked for a recount but the request was refused by the Returning Officer.

151

Transparent?,

Scotland 06/05/2007 08:54:06

Ms Sturgeon, after three previous failures at Govan, managed a majority of 744 with over 1200 rejected voting papers. That's 1200+ people robbed of their votes in one constituency.

I believe the only way to rectify the mess is to re-run the election under the old manual system. You don't need to be a mathematician to realise that 100,000+ votes could change an election result - especially in a small country like Scotland. Even Salmond, said it was unacceptable, no doubt hoping that would make him look innocent, but that was before the SNP finished with the most MSPs at Holyrood. If the other parties had any brains at all, they would force another election.

Whether they do that or not, depends on how much integrity they have and how much they really care about the electorate

152

Steve Foley,

England 06/05/2007 08:54:06

#145. A "Recount" such as you mention is held at the time in the Counting Hall before the Result is declared. Usually it is when it is very close or the number of rejected papers would change the outcome. A Candidate or their Agent has to do so there and then.

If the Result has actually been declared then a Legal Challenge can be issued. This means that all the Papers are examined and any accusation of fraud, people voting using someone else's vote, "Personation" , papers being counted which were void of the Official Mark , etc is examined. This can mean that Result being declared Void and a By-Election being held as mentioned by me in post #149. Thus a Challenge is not a step to be taken lightly and I understand the Legal Costs are very high.

153

Rab McClair,

FREE SCOTLAND ...?????? 06/05/2007 08:54:47

Various bloggers warned us last week to
BE VIGILANT.

Is it really so far fetched to think that persons in government MIGHT just be tempted to "redress" an imbalance, if they believe that their power is ebbing away???
We need a Judicial Enquiry.......NOW.
If it smells like s***. looks like s***, it just might be..........?????????

154

Dave M,

06/05/2007 08:56:37

158 TMWK

I believe that he is within his rights to do this.

In Aberdeen Central, Alex Salmond asked for a recount, against Labour wishes but the Returning Officer deemed, in this instance, that there was good reason to do so.

Labour should button up over this.

155

Pongo,

Planet Numptyland 06/05/2007 08:59:06

Absolutely unbelievable!
Labour's true colours are now being revealed - and it's the same colour that spewed into the Forth a fortnight ago.
If they want revenge sack Douglas Alexander at the Scottish Office who sanctioned this farce and was warned beforehand of the likely problems of the new voting system.
Good riddance and goodbye Jack Phone Pickfords now!

156

morris,

Dun Eidean Alba 06/05/2007 08:59:39

145
We are not talking about a manual recount are we,or are we ? If the machine is unreliable in one seat it is unfit for purpose evrywhere !
The machine will do exactly the same as before or the machine is even more unreliable .A manual recount however could and probably will reverse the result. Sorry your attempts at impartiality are well intended but I have some knowledge of similar machines and if they can produce an alternative result then the whole election is dubious.What worries me is that whilst Labour and Tory could soon find the money to spend on a rerun,the SNP and Liberals and others would really have to drain the bank.Dont tell me this never occurred to the Labour party! Their supporters might not be too bright,but the party itself is devious to the core, and capable of anything.There are numerous examples in council chambers over many years of behaviour like schoolchildren from Labour.
What you could do is look at the rejected papers again but that questions the ability and impartiality of the returning officer who made the decision.
This is Labour one short of retention of power.They will try anything and sink to any lenghths to secure their gravy train again,I blame the morons who voted for them .

They cost Scotland her birthright and are quite proud of being completely incapable of reasoned thinking. One of the great joys of being a numpty is you are unaware of it presumably.
Labour actually belive that being a better class of decpetion than the opposition is the hallmark of good government.YOUVE GOT THEM OUT NOW KEEP THEM OUT!
If this is overturned we should take to the streets This nonsense party has gone too far!

157

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:01:34

144

Well they both agree on Independence and a referendum and then there is the renewable energy policies within both their manifestos as opposed to the nuclear energy options from both the Tories and Labour. They are both ideologically left of centre as opposed to the other major parties being right of centre.
If I were you I would quit while I was behind.

158

Royster,

06/05/2007 09:02:06

#154. It's perfectly acceptable to have all sorts of weird coalitions with proportional representation. Deals are always possible - power and influence are what most politicians want otherwise they are essentially unemployed and, without being in government, they cannot put things on their CVs later in life. Labour and the Tories can offer more to the Greens than the SNP. I actually think a Labour, Tory, Green coalition would be attractive. No constitutional instability or unecessary confrontation, social democracy with spending under control and some serious investment in alternative energy such as wave and windpower. Superb.

159

The petemeister,

Falkirk 06/05/2007 09:02:20

The Labour Party in Scotland have lost every shred of legitimacy to run this country. They have abandonded their founding principles, anti democaratic, run down or disowned their own countrymen and country, incompetently administered the election, disenfranched voters, ignored the election result and now want to set aside results caused by their own stupidity. Their only ideology is to keep themselves on the gravy train and run down Scotland for another four years. The Scottish people have spoken but still they are not listening. If the Lib Dems do another deal with this lot they are condemning themselves tofuture electoral oblivion. Perhaps we need to shout a bit louder next time so they get the message!!

160

ScotsLass58,

Red Ken's Toon 06/05/2007 09:03:19

It's ma ba' an' your no playin' wi it!
Nice one McConnell, congratulations on yet again proving to the vast majority o Scotland that you are indeed the biggest numpty of a' in Scotland!:)

161

Bill, Dunblane,

06/05/2007 09:03:46

156 -Njal

Your "nice wee white rose"

This one?

The rose of all the world is not for me
I want for my part
Only the little white rose of Scotland
That smells sharp and sweet - and breaks the heart.

Hugh MacDiarmid

162

Dave M,

06/05/2007 09:06:26

166 Royster

Nursie is here with your medication.

Open wide now...

163

Dave M,

06/05/2007 09:09:45

170 AM2

Good morning AM2.

Is it easier or harder for dead men to vote using STV?

164

walter,

06/05/2007 09:10:23

#125 Kenny

You may be right that this is down to people miscounting the votes.
In this case as I said I would not be happy if a count was made in Arran and I had X amount then the papers were transported by boat were the papers got wet and became illegible and were discarded at the count in Irvine meaning that I lost votes.
Especially if this was pointed out to the counting officer and he took the count from Irvine and discounted the one from Arran.
We are not talking here about papers that were not filled out properly and discounted we are talking about papers that were counted and accepted before transportation.
They were then ruined during transportation and counted again.
When this was pointed out to the counting officer he should have taken the Arran count and not the Irvine count for the papers from Arran.

165

,

06/05/2007 09:10:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 596963, Article id was mapped to record!
166

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 09:10:56

A coalition of the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour would be democratic because it would be significantly more representative of the will of the people of Scotland rather than 28% that voted for a single party.

167

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 09:11:12

162

Dave, you are correct and I agree with you entirely. I am just telling it like it is.

168

Crank Parent,

06/05/2007 09:11:20

Let me get this straight, Douglas Alexander's Scotland Office cocked up and confused the electorate by having two elections and three different votes on two bits of paper. The labour party want to
a) draw attention to this (Dougie is such a dead scapegoat now!)
b) argue the toss over only one seat that will make a difference to them, but not *all* the seats where the margin is lower than the number of spoiled ballots, thus highlighting their agenda.

Against the advice of the returning officers who advised against combining all the votes on the same day in this way, the Labour party have brought this upon themselves.

It seems Scottish Labour wishes the super casino had been in Glasgow, but to make up for it they are treating the election as a giant puggy. They'll press Hold on the cherries that they like, and gamble again on the ones they didn't like.

169

Phil C,

06/05/2007 09:12:14

#170 AM2 - You wouldn't believe real evidence unless it waste cut and pasted on your face! How you can still defend that dishonest bunch of Labour incompetents is beyond me.

170

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:12:14

170

More words of wisdom please do continue oh enlightened one.

171

Mike1,

Midlands 06/05/2007 09:12:31

What would the basis of the legal challenge be? More of our supporters couldn't understand the ballot paper than theirs?

172

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 09:13:06

165

Boyce, the SNP left of centre? That'll come as a surprise to a lot of the people who voted for them.

173

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:15:02

165

Why? Its as obvious as Labours criminal record.

174

Dode,

Shetland 06/05/2007 09:15:21

It amazes me that so many are too stupid to fill out the forms. Do we need to pass an IQ test before we are eligible to vote?

175

Breezy,

Argyll 06/05/2007 09:16:35

If Ming Campbell does a deal with Gordon Brown in the back corridors of Westminster to stop the SNP having a coalition with the Scottish Liberal Democrats in Holyrood that will show the electorate just how undemocratic the Liberals are prepared to be. We already know how undemocratic the Labour Party are. Recount one constituency...Florida all over again.

176

The Big Bopper,

On stage 06/05/2007 09:17:30

All highly cringe-making! A suitable valediction to ghastly Jack and his procession of pin-heads. Back to teaching P1 for most of them, pending the next cooncil elections.

As Alex S said only yesterday to the "minority" leaders - "put your sweet lips a little closer to the phone"......

Let's take it from here, folks! Onward & upward.

177

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 09:18:03

182

Boyce, Sturgeon perhaps, but Salmond left wing? Come off it. He went to St Andrews University.

178

Boy Wonder,

06/05/2007 09:19:01

I agree with the poster who said Labour set this electoral system up and are now crying "foul" because it went against them! Numpties!!

If the go ahead and challenge that seat, the SNP should challenge another, and another.

That way the entire election will have to be rerun. All of it simpler, all of it FPTP as it shouls be. No more of this STV nonsense, which in my humble opinion only serves to destabilise government!

179

Dave M,

06/05/2007 09:22:17

186 TMWKFA

Ah, so that the secret of being right wing?!

180

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 09:22:22

183

You are 100% correct. A lot of this forum's contributors appear to be suggesting that the right to vote should be withdrawn from the "intellectually challenged". Disgraceful.

181

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:22:39

186

Aye right enough maybe he belongs in the BNP then.
My sister went to St Andrews she didnt come back a tory or a facist. She's still the radical leftie she's always been.
Is that your marker for putting the SNP right of centre?

182

Mike1,

Midlands 06/05/2007 09:24:49

My antennas have in recent years detected a left of centre SNP. A sort of Scottish national socialism.

183

MaryG,

Nairnshire, Scotland 06/05/2007 09:25:00

Did I read, somewhere, about students, or social workers, or somebody collecting postal votes and being told to destroy those that didn't vote labour? It is so surreal that perhaps it was one of those very (sur)realistic dreams I have occasionally.
Joke, accept the will of the majority, and, as has been said before "Depart, in the name of God, go". Give somebody else a shotty at the game, they can't make a worse mess of it than your lot have done, both at Holyrood and Westminster. Labour need to learn that Orwell's "1984" was written as a horrible warning, not a blueprint for government.

184

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 09:25:04

188

Dave, can you rephrase your question please. In your excitement, you appear to have missed a word or two. Thanks.

185

Royster,

06/05/2007 09:25:45

#174. You never know. Holyrood and Westminster are different matters. The Labour and the Tories could simply ring-fence Holyrood from the Westminster elections. Different styles and approaches are needed with First-past-the-post and proportional representation. FPTP is slag off your opponent, PR is criticize your opponent but leave the door open for reconciliation. That's why the SNP may have blundered by saying they will not work with the Tories.

186

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:29:08

191

The SNP have always been left of centre its where Scottish politics is. The vast majority of Scots are left of centre in their politics which is why Scotland has always been a Labour heartland.
The dumb sh*ts still supporting them in Glasgow are still under the impression that Labour are a left centred party and the SNP are Scottish Tories because that was the propaganda put out by Labour in the 70s to kill off the sudden surge towards Independence.
I honestly despair for a large section of the Scottish electorate. It really is embarrasing to me as a Scot.

187

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfropolis 06/05/2007 09:29:31

#186 The Man Who Knows...

You may recall that Salmond was thrown out of the SNP in the early eighties for starting a left wing faction.

As Wikipaedia seems to be the only site I can find with the total number of votes according to my pencil and rubber calculations, the total votes were:

SNP: 1,297,628

LAB: 1,243,642

So, overall the SNP won by 53,986 votes. A bit more convincing than the 48 votes Alan 'Cuture?' Wilson lost by.

188

ScotsLass58,

Red Ken's Toon 06/05/2007 09:30:05

Will this threatened legal challenge by Wee Joke and his mates also include an investigation into why we have no members from the Spoilt Ballot Paper Party in the new Hollyrood makeup?
After all they did get between 100,000 and 150,000 votes:) Surely that should be good enough for at least one seat in Hollyrood.

189

Les65,

Thurso 06/05/2007 09:30:49

If Jack McConnell reads these comments I think he will have to think twice about taking any action. As they say the pen is mightier than the sword. A re-election would see an end the Labour party not just in Scotland but the whole of Britain

190

walter,

06/05/2007 09:32:16

#180 Mike1

What would the basis of the legal challenge be? More of our supporters couldn't understand the ballot paper than theirs?

This is not a challenge of the national debacle of papers not being filled out properly which many are trying to indicate it is.
This is a constituency challenge were paper were counted and then ruined during transportation, then when recounted these papers which had been filled out properly in the first place were discarded as ruined papers.
The challenge would be the discrepancy between the count before they left Arran and the count after they arrived at Irvine and the reasons the counting officer took the decision he did when this discrepancy was pointed out to him.

191

A Gibson,

Midlothian 06/05/2007 09:33:40

This election was a fiasco. Given the number of people unable to vote due to the shambles the election should be rerun.

192

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 09:33:49

191

Mike1, I think that your comment is disgraceful.

Furthermore, in response to other contributors, I did not say that the SNP are right of centre, simply that they are not left of centre. Like all modern day political parties, they will occupy the ground which is most expedient at the time eg the Tories under Thatcher and Labour under Blair. The attraction of the SNP last Thurday was that they were all things to all men (and women). We'll see what happens with the proposed referendum when AlexSalmond tries to do a deal with Nicol Stephen.

193

Swilly Tisher,

Loch Maree 06/05/2007 09:34:12

Old Compton Mackenzie must be turning in his grave - in a state of complete literary frustration . So , let's have a re-count on the romantic island of Arran. I'd go further - let's have a re-count throughout Scotland. But the outcome will still be the same. No , it'll be better - Alex Salmond's SNP will romp past the finishing post with a greatly enhanced mandate to govern. One final thought from Swilly Tisher : the Scottish Tories are making a big, big mistake by refusing to go into coalition with the SNP. It would be hugely to their advantage to scupper New Labour come the next General Election. I'll bet you Cameron & Goldie are reviewing their strategy at this very moment. Who's to say there won't be a policy reversal , dictated by the next-but-one Prime Minister - David Cameron ?

194

,

06/05/2007 09:34:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
195

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 09:35:31

197

Oscar, as a member at that time, I remember it well. But do you recall the circumstances of his re-admittance?

196

Royster,

06/05/2007 09:37:40

Alex Salmond; not First Minister.

197

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:37:56

194

These alien abductions can be a terrible thing.
All that probing must have been awful.
You need to stay out of the Lothian triangle at night.
Can anybody recommend a good therapist?

198

Dave M,

06/05/2007 09:38:38

186 & 193 TMWKFA

Ah, so that's the secret of being right wing?!

199

Dode,

Shetland 06/05/2007 09:38:53

189

Or should the right to vote be denied to the fools that came up with the shambles that we have just witnessed?

200

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 09:39:40

206

Royster, read 67.

201

Dave M,

06/05/2007 09:40:25

Can anyone tell me if there is any legitimate way that the Labour party could have known postal voting results during the election?

202

Richardinho,

06/05/2007 09:40:40

If this goes ahead, exactly how long is it going to go on for? Presumably other partys (Tommy sheridan anyone?) and even individuals (postal voters, no pun intended) may mount their own challenges. you can't mount one review of the spoilt papers without doing them all.

This could create an impasse theoretically lasting for months during which the parliament wouldn't be able to do anything, and we wouldn't have a clue who the next government would be.

Rather ironic given the Labour party's claims that it would be the SNP who would create 'constitutional confusion and uncertainty'.

203

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 06/05/2007 09:41:04

This is an article from the Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007...

"all Labour’s much-vaunted attempts to improve participation in our electoral system seem more and more to be underpinned with an unpleasant, and gerrymandering, cynicism."

and

"Labour has merely enhanced its reputation for incompetence, and for a determination to interfere in the electoral system not to promote ease of voting, but to try and manipulate arrangements to get as many of its own natural supporters to vote as possible."

AM2's remarks about double standards are unjustified. It was Labour that caused the mess, and now seek to use either their 1) Incompetence or 2) deliberate Gerrymandering to their advantage.

Every other party has a justifiable reason to be miffed by the election process. The one party that has no such reason is Labour.

204

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:42:46

202

The only party that has shifted ideologically in recent memory is the Labour Party under Blair.
He's taken a once socialist party so far over to the right as to knock the Tories out of their comfort zone and into limbo.

205

Jim P,

Netherlands 06/05/2007 09:43:05

#202 Mike

This says it all:

"The SNP is a democratic left-of-centre political party committed to Scottish Independence. It aims to create a just, caring and enterprising society by releasing Scotland's full potential as an independent nation in the mainstream of modern Europe."

Visit: snp.org

206

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:44:33

213

Only the ones that had been opened and were in the process of being counted.

207

Royster,

06/05/2007 09:44:37

#208. Hoho. Entrenched positions count against you in Proportional Representation. This is now working against the SNP which is a confrontational, single issue party.

208

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 09:46:30

217

Boyce, while I agree that Labour shifted under Blair, I don't think that Labour could be described as socialist. This was a creation of the right wing press's imagination. And the Tories certainly shifted under Thatcher.

209

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:46:50

207

And another relevent post to the discussion.
You really are an irritating little fart.

210

Pilrig,

Livingston 06/05/2007 09:48:00

Royster 101 -"Labour form coalition with Tories and Greens" !!! wtf are you smoking ? !

211

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:49:14

217

Certainly not anymore but dont forget they were created by the trade unions and you dont get anymore socialist than them at least back then.

Where did the Tories shift to? they have always been Right wing further than anybody apart from New Labour.

212

Royster,

06/05/2007 09:49:51

If the SNP drop the independence referendum you could get a SNP, Tory, Margo McDonald coalition. That could be quite stable. The SNP could then demonstrate they could govern and show they are an inclusive party.

213

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 09:50:01

218

Jim P, how many SNP voters looked at the website before voting? If I tell my in laws (who voted for the SNP) that they voted for a left-of-centre party, they'll tell me I am winding them up.

214

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 09:51:01

McConnell is on TV just now agreeing that the SNP have the largest number of votes and that it is Salmond's responsibility to see if he can form a government. "They (SNP) have the right to see if they can form a Govt." in what he described as a "remarkable result for Labour".

He is being as evassive as he is implaussible. Unbelievable and clearly in denial - even though he denied that....er?

One side is as bad as the other.

215

Dode,

Shetland 06/05/2007 09:51:32

Can anyone tell me, who did instigate this cock-up of a voting system?

216

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:51:47

220

It takes two to make an issue confrontational or hadnt you noticed?

217

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:52:35

226

Oh Please.

218

Fenland Farmer,

East Anglia 06/05/2007 09:52:41

The "New Labour" gang are totally devious and well versed in protecting their power base. Example..European Constitution is rejected by the "masses" ie voters but is being introduced by the back door because our masters know best! England does not have a Parliament but voted mostly Tory in the Districts.
We were stiched up under Devolution. Welcome to the club. Please take Broon home or we may have to dig up Cromwell...8)

219

Jimmyczz,

06/05/2007 09:53:59

Labour have a lot to worry about in this election. Have you noticed that they were very quick to comment on one thing only before today. This being the statement by Alex Salmond that there would be a totally independent judicial enquiry into the election, something along the lines of " no need we are investigating already using our chums at the electoral commission" ...... something really smells.

For God's sake go with some dignity Jack, I have spoken with around 50 people today on my way around the supermarket and they are angry at the behaviour of the Labour party, we dont like sore losers.

220

Royster,

06/05/2007 09:54:01

#223. You people have no imagination. Politicians can repackage anything and sell it particularly if it serves their own interests. I can't see the Lib-Dems going in with the SNP. They need to be in opposition for a while to get back some credibility otherwise they will be the party which always plays second fiddle.

221

Pilrig,

Livingston 06/05/2007 09:54:44

Royster 166 - "What a day for a daydream, What a day for a daydreamin' boy " : )

222

lisa,

perth 06/05/2007 09:55:28

Interesting insight into how the SNP mindset works when they say they would not accept a legal challenge.

It is for the courts to decide if a legal challenge is valid, not the politicians.

If Alex and his troops think the executive can overrule the courts then we are in for a hard time I fear

223

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 09:56:13

#222 - clearly quoting leading members of the SNP showing their inherent bigotry is less than satisfying for you?

subtle reposte and a lovely piece of name calling of which your party's leadership would be proud.

224

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:56:13

223

Thats the first thing youve posted today I agree with And the Labour party winning so many seats bitterly proves your point.

225

monarch,

shotts 06/05/2007 09:57:10

ok,, it was a right shambles of an election, however we must stand by the result

226

ScotsLass58,

Red Ken's Toon 06/05/2007 09:57:12

I have just read a post from someone who only voted on the left side of their ballot paper, they didn't want to vote for anyone on the right side so didn't put their mark. Does anyone have any idea if this therefore constitues a spoilt ballot paper? If it does then it only goes to show how riddiculously pathetic the election was. Surely anyone who voted has the unquestionable right to only vote on the left or right side of the ballot paper only. These papers should be counted. If I am given a ballot paper with a list of names none of whom I want to vote I will not vote for them, that does not constitute a spoilt ballot paper. All Ballot papers with only votes on the left or right side only should be counted and should not be counted as spoilt papers.

227

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:57:19

236

If the shoe fits and it certainly fits him read his posts then comment on them.

228

Hazza,

Gibraltar 06/05/2007 09:57:33

There should be another Scottish General Election. The last was a fiasco - surprisingly - as Scotland usually gets things done better than most. Bring back the old system and to hell with new technology.We have recently had a General Election here for our new Parliament and Constitution and used the old metal ballot boxes etc. It went smoothly but the politicos are still at each others throats and to make matters worse the legal system is in turmoil with the Q.C.s and lawyers trying to turf out the Chief Justice and not allowing him to rule on cases. At least that has'nt happened in Scotland. The "chaos theory" seems to be in full test mode here!

229

Dode,

Shetland 06/05/2007 09:58:54

226

I mentioned IQ tests a moment ago!

230

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:58:58

236

I happen to agree with all the quotes dont you?

231

Pilrig,

Livingston 06/05/2007 09:59:48

189 - correction - a lot of FASCISTS on this forum are calling for the vote to be withdarwn from person they perceive to be 'intellectually challenged.'

On that note, whatever happened to the wee Aberdonian bnp candidate ?

232

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:00:49

230

Boyce, oh please what? Can you finish your post please.

233

davydee,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:01:10

Alex Salmond only has himself to blame for this to come out on telly and say that one of his first duties as First Minister was to hold an INDEPENDENT inquiry into the way this ELECTION was conducted must have the Labour party sh11t1ng themselves as we have seen over the course of this election and the total bias against the SNP from the union orientated press this election was IMO designed to help the Labour party win With all their might they could not do it now they know if the Alex Salmond is First Minister they will be found out for what they are LIARS,CHEATS, and a theat to the democracy of our Country does anyone agree with me

234

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:01:27

238

No we dont. In fact we really do need to do it all again properly or we are no better than Zimbabwe.

235

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 10:01:42

#240 - surely you cheapen your own position by resorting to name calling or doesn't it count (bit like the voting system) if you disagree with the individual concerned?

236

Gtj,

Dundee 06/05/2007 10:02:51

Jack go home its over, no one wants you any more. If legal action is going to be taken, it should be to introduce a law preventing rubbish newspapers trying to win elections by manipulating and scaring Labour voters into voting to prevent SNP winning close seats.

Jack the people have spoken try something radical - Listen.

237

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 10:03:30

# 243 - no.

238

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:03:40

245

Ok youre lying out of your teeth is that clear enough for you?

239

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:04:08

250

Why not?

240

worriedenglishman,

England 06/05/2007 10:04:47

I heard the SNP have it in their party constitution that they won't work with the Tories!

Is this true?

241

IainGlasgow,

06/05/2007 10:06:13

#19

An attempt at electoral fraud of gargantuan proportions has been orchestrated by the Labour party. It has blown up in their face and they have gone into hiding while their lawyers try to find a way for them to not only get away with it but to hang onto power as well.

The Labour party has plunged new levels. It has become highest level grand master of political corruption and duplicity.

This is a FAR MORE SERIOUS matter than people seem to be taking it. The whole government seems to have gone underground and the Tory opposition for their part don't seem to be performing that function.

The British government has lost the plot in a ditch attempt to avert its democratic removal from office and international adjucicators need to make their way here pronto!

242

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:06:23

248

its an expression of frustration which should make him happy anyway because its why he posts his irrelevant crap. He's not trying to make any point or debate he's just winding people up.
Are you new to these forums?

243

Gavin48,

Glasgow 06/05/2007 10:06:39

Its seems likely that we may have a rerun of the election anyway. Given that the choices are coalition or minority govenrment. Coalition seems unlikely for any group to establish a working majority as only if the Tories come into partnership can this be achieved, Lab-LibDm -Tory, SNP-LibDem-Tory. None of these seem likely. A minority government is more likely but probaly less desirable, who would want to pick up this poisened chalice

244

Pat K,

Cunninghame North 06/05/2007 10:07:09

This fiasco reminds me of why I voted against that corrupt wee numpty Wilson. If he 'wins' by recounting and recounting and then going to the courts, it is totally unacceptable.

No question as to who won in CN. If such tenuous arguments as 'their intent was clear' now fly, the SNP could now argue 4,000+ accidentally voted for Campbell Martin in the mistaken belief he was still the SNP candidate.

Wilson is trying to make my backyard in to Florida c2001 - a crime scene. Electoral theft is not pretty to behold! Also, even if he does cheat his way to victory - how will this affect the list seats? SNP could gain one!

245

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:07:17

253

I believe it is. It came about as a result of the poll tax being introduced into Scotland a year before England.

246

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:07:31

252

Careful Boyce, you are getting excited again. Do you own one of these blood pressure monitor things? If you do, use it. If you don't, buy one.

247

Maisie,

06/05/2007 10:08:06

Well well, each new day brings more surprises! So Labour are thinking about mounting a legal challenge, if they do this then we should have a legal challenge to the whole election, I am dubious about the whole event anyway, from the missing postal votes, to the layout of the ballot papers, something stinks to high heaven. Labour engineered the whole thing to be in their favour, then when it all went awry, they cry foul.

I can't wait to see what happens next, the water is murkier by the day.

248

Sparky,

Hamilton 06/05/2007 10:08:26

How on earth did DRS get the contract for these elections.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23395179-detai...

Have Labour shot themselves in the foot.

249

Pat K,

Cunninghame North 06/05/2007 10:08:32

#253 - Yes it is in the SNPs Constitution that they wont work with the Tories. It is due to the days of the poll tax being imposed in Scotland.

Frankly the parties wouldn't work together anyway. And if you believe the Scottish Tories they will not 'prop up' any government.

250

max123,

fife 06/05/2007 10:08:55

Labour are taking a big risk in trying to force a Labour victory on Scotland. The people have decided on Alex Salmond as first minister only to find we may still have McConnell. Gordon Brown be warned - your seat will not be safe in Kirkcaldy. Labour did not win that seat on Thursday - a popular MSP did.

251

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfropolis 06/05/2007 10:09:32

#205 The Man who Knows.

'do you recall the circumstances of his re-admittance?'


If I remember correctly Salmond, Sarah Boyack, Susan Deacon, Kenny MacAskil, Stewart Stevenson and Roseanna Cunninghame were all members of the 79 Group, a collection of SNP members and the Scottish Labour party, committed to the idea of an independent socialist Scottish republic. They were returned IIRC after the overwhelming majority of the party requested their re-instatement. Was their something else?

#216 AM2

Hi chap nice to see you back minus the cut and paste excess.

I thought a collective figure gives a more lucid reflection of the numbers involved.

Just for you,

Constituency:

SNP: 664,227 = 21 seats

Labour: 648,374 = 37 seats

Difference: SNP 15,853 more votes


Regional:

SNP: 633,401 = 26 seats

Labour: 595,415 = 9 seats

Difference: SNP 37,986 more votes

So the glaring discrepancy in TFPTP poll is that the SNP with 15,853 more votes than Labour ended up with 16 seats less.

Obviously this was also reflected in the regional list numbers with the SNP polling 37,986 votes and 17 more seats than Labour


There you go.

252

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:10:37

262

Fair enough Sparky but how come the count went OK in some areas and not others?

253

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:10:41

260

You asked.

254

Pat K,

Cunninghame North 06/05/2007 10:12:11

Yeah love the DRS (count machines) affair with Neil Kinnock as a company director! If we are having a recount, lets have a recount and make sure Labour candidates were not sitting in a business park filling out thousands of votes as in Birmingham a couple years ago. Remember Joke McDonnell?? fought hard to avoid the introduction of the postal voting safeguards introduced in England!

255

Chikderic,

Inverness 06/05/2007 10:12:46

#239 I only voted on the regional list as I could not bring myself to vote for any of the candidates. Was my vote disqualified and if so, where was the information that one had to vote for both a candidate and on the regional list?

256

David MacVicar,

web 06/05/2007 10:12:56

I am totally against any re run of this election. Lets not replace one farce with another. How many people would even vote next time around? The whole system is flowed and needs changed to reduce fraud, increase accuracy and to make sure people get the blody postal votes. IMO the rules should be changed so that ex pats can vote in OUR NATIONAL elections too.

Things Id like to see:

Douglas Alexander should me made to step down until the results of an enquiry are made known.

We need a full judicial enquiry to look at the full spectrum of the election.
Recommendations from the Arbuthnott Commision have been ignored: "The Commission's remit is to examine the consequences of having four different systems of voting in Scotland, and different boundaries for Westminster and Scottish Parliament constituencies." These recommendations and the reasons for not beinbg implemented need to be examined by the enquiry.

Any evidence of fraudulant or illegal activities by any party or persons must be fully investigated.
Any groups of individuals found responsible need to be prosecuted accordingly. If they are party members / activitsts their party should also be heavily penalised.

The whole postal vote system needs completely revised and measures implemented to reduce likelyhood of fraud.

257

Aged SNP Voter,

Fife (fae Dundee - the SNP City) 06/05/2007 10:13:23

Spin come home to roost? Is this the Democracy that bLIAR took Scotland & the UK to war for by allegedly misleading BOTH Houses of parliament. I'm not taking the 'moral high ground' and the phrase 'giving someone a kicking' is SO public school (I know 'cos for 13 years, I was at one). Everyone knows that the word 'New' is a marketing person's trick to convince you to buy a supposed 'different brand' of cornflakes. The votes are in and they've been counted. I voted SNP and it was as 'easy as 1,2,3' - ha!

258

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:14:15

264

And the Scottish Executive ran a fair election in Scotland I see your point.

259

James,

Dundee 06/05/2007 10:17:19

#239 - from what I know this would be fine - most of the spoils were 'over votes' which was 2 crosses on the left column. Clearly it would be 'rejected' but manually verified ok on FPTP then rejected on list vote.

Aparently they were accepting marks other than crosses, if it was clear who the preference was for.

260

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:17:24

272

And if fraud is proved you wouldnt want to hold another election?

261

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 10:17:45

#252 - because they are the sort of ridiculous comments that should be the sole preserve of fringe politicians and cranks not ones that aspire to govern the very peolpe they show utter contempt for.

Not exactly an inclusive way of building a better a Scotland is it?

262

morris,

Dun Eidean Alba 06/05/2007 10:18:15

183

On the contaray we aer saying the paper has been rejected . It will be rejected again . The result stands .

263

Brian Hill,

Brian Hill 06/05/2007 10:18:36

Even if, in the highly unlikely event of Labour winning this seat, the SNP could still form the Government.

46 SNP + 16 Lib Dems + 2 Greens + Margo

However as several people have pointed out, if Labour can mount a challenge in this seat, other challenges could be mounted over many other seats where the number of spoilt papers could have changed the result.

Of course if this challenge were to take more than 28 days the entire election would have to be re run anyway because there would be no Prime Minister selected within the alloted period (I hate that First Minister nonsense don't you?)

Should the election be re-run I'm sure the electorate would reward the Labour party accordingly.

But again as it was the Labour/Lib Dems Government which set the system up in the first place Labour have a real cheek challenging the system because the result doesn't suit them. That will also be remembered by the electorate. These people really are morally bankrupt. Power at any cost is their God.

264

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:19:18

267

Oscar, your recollection is 100% correct (I am pleased that somebody else is not another Johnny Come Lately) but the date of this event was very interesting. Can you recall when this happened?

265

Pilrig,

Livingston 06/05/2007 10:19:27

AM #264 - You're wrong Elvis isnae living in Saltcoats - he works in a supermarket in Peterborough.

266

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:20:27

271

It certainly sounds as if the auto system would have discounted your vote what isnt clear is if the manual check afterwards if there was one of the discounted pile would have corrected this and counted it or whether it was still counted as spoilt.
I am still not clear on this point myself.

267

morris,

Dun Eidean Alba 06/05/2007 10:21:54

We suggested irregularities might exist before and what has happened since reinforces that suspicion. There is no double standards here other than if Labour cannot win by fair means they will win by any means possible ,including the depths of dragging Scotland into the democratic gutter for all the world to see.
BACK OFF LABOUR or the fireworks really will start flying!

268

Gtj,

Dundee 06/05/2007 10:23:23

The more Labour interfere to try and prevent democracy the more they will become unpopular.
Do they not have any intelligent advisers?

269

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:23:59

280

You prat.
Arent you the one who's always posting irrelevant figures and statistics to prove nothing.

270

Pilrig,

Livingston 06/05/2007 10:25:16

childerec 271 - no your vote wasn't disqualified.

271

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:26:23

287

Boyce, your contributions are becoming increasingly agitated. As I said before - calm down.

272

Jim McDonald,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:27:08

Does Labour never learn at the election of 4 year ago labour stated that they would listen to the People well the people of Scotland have spoken and we have said we support SNP so will they now allow Scotland to move on and be the great Nation we are or continue to do as they want and not what the people want ????

273

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:27:09

280

AM2, careful! Boyce is becoming increasingly agitated.

274

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfropolis 06/05/2007 10:27:42

AM2 and The Man Who Knows. # 280 & 281.

Fellers, 'I'm a miner not a professional actor.'

AM2 I think that the total number of votes cast for both the SNP and Labour by the electorate illustrates that the majority of those poor souls who could be arsed to drag themselves to the polling station overwhelmingly supported the SNP, to the collective extent of some 59,835.

Incidentally whilst I have your attention, can you tell me whether you believe that Douglas Alexander should resign over this farrago?

The Man Who Knows, pray tell what happened next?

275

BlackJock,

Recife,Brazil 06/05/2007 10:27:55

This election is rapidly turning into a Brazilian style vote where the electoral courts sit full time.

276

Stushie,

Glasgow 06/05/2007 10:28:13

Sounds like democratic dyslexia is plaguing the Labour party - they think that the word 'vote' means 'veto'.

Next, they could write a best seller

Electoral Dysfunction by Noah Clue

277

pehman,

sussex 06/05/2007 10:28:29

232 Jimmyczz,

I agree 100% with what you say, Lab are really scared, If the result can be over turned in labs favour here then other results can be overturned elsewhere, resulting in more SNP gains.
Lab know this so this appeal can be seen as only one last ditch stand to protect the cover up of the last few years. From here on the SNP will have access to ALL documentation from that period.
The make up of the QUANGO'S, their remits as laid down by lab, the placemen on these quango's, the real extent of croonieism and neopotism.
Lab have to be in total panic to take this to court, before the public find out the truth of what has been going on

278

Pat K,

Cunninghame North 06/05/2007 10:28:47

Some of the comments made in the last couple minutes are very insightful, others not so (obviously). But whilst there is truth in how unpopular Labour would become if they fought this election in a court of law, I still would be outraged if myself and the other voters of Cunninghame North were to be overruled.

279

rothay,

England 06/05/2007 10:28:54

Instead of what could be months of legal disputes over this election it would make sense to hold an independence referendum in Scotland now.

If the SNP gets a vote for independence then surely the other parties would acknowledge that. They would have to co-operate on everything else for the sake of the country as a whole or call what would be then a Scottish general election.

If the SNP lost its case then they would have to co-operate with the other parties and Westminster, at least until the English are given a referendum on independence or an English Parliament.

280

Porry,

06/05/2007 10:29:29

What a mess. Where are we standing?Let's sort it out: Firstly, there will be no referendum and therefore the union has survived. Secondly, the Labour Party claims to be the home of the intellectually challenged. Have we learnt anything new?

281

alanh,

EK 06/05/2007 10:29:45

typical bad losers trying to cling to power under ANY cicumstances.
New Labour won many seats by fewer votes than the number of spoiled papers. Do they want recounts in all these wards too?
It could be easy to get all the people who spoiled their ballot papers to be recounted since everyones ballot paper had a corresponding id number, therefore if they wanted these people in ALL wards could be recounted.
As usual the New Labour spinners forget that the real reason there was so many spoiled papers is because the govt in power, oh yes that WAS New Labour , insisted against advise to hold both the polls on the same day using different papers.
I know of a few peeps that only wanted to vote for the parties, that had no intention of voting on the right for the first past the post person since they were all the same in their opinion.
Does the above story mean their paper was made invalid even tho there clear intention was only to vote in the lists?????

282

Alistair Stewart,

MARCH FOR DEMOCRACY 06/05/2007 10:30:13

Just spoken with someone in the know and the SNP are not at all worried by this talk of a challenge in the court by Labour.

I feel good about this :-)

283

Rabhairt,

Cannons Creek Australia 06/05/2007 10:30:28

The count is in, accept it and give the SNP a fair go

284

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:31:04

292

Come on Oscar. You have done well up to now. Think about it - when was Alex re-admitted?

285

David MacVicar,

web 06/05/2007 10:31:38

276. Boyce.

Lets not prejudge anything but a thorough investigation will take time. Oh, I forgot to mention the contracts for the voting machines etc need looking at.

It will take time to do the investigation, get a new report for recommendations. These recommendations need to be put in place and unfortunately need Westminsters permission before they can be put in place (I think?). All this will take a long time. You surely dont want another election under the same conditions, that imo is LUNACY or maybe numptacy? ;)

I would welcome an early reelection if fraud is found to be high but you are talking about years here. Rememeber the Arbuthnott Commision made its findings in 2006 and SFA has been done about it!

286

Edinburghs only big team,

06/05/2007 10:31:56

I think I just saw a new sign being put up at Edinburgh Airport.

"Welcome to the Nederlands"

287

IainGlasgow,

06/05/2007 10:32:05

#101

Would that be the same greens who are pro-trident, pro-nuclear power stations and anti-indepencence?

288

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:32:40

279

Can you imagine if we had a proportional Government in the UK parliament consisting of Labour LibDems Ulster Unionists and Sein Fein.
Or Tory Lib Dem SNP and BNP.
Could it Govern?
Why are people still taking this devolved parliament seriously?

289

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:32:40

303

AM2, are you sure that Boyce a nationalist? His contributions suggest that he's a rather mixed up individual.

290

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 10:34:09

# 290 - I don't think the people of Scotland have said that they support the SNP only a proportion of them. Wild guess but could that be where the proportional representation bit comes in, what do you think? If the "people of Scotland" had given the SNP a mandate they wouldn't be scratching round looking for some friends to play with. But I suppose when you are calling people names for 8 weeks prior to the election perhaps it is a bit tricky trying to pretend that you are all pals really.

291

Pat K,

Cunninghame North 06/05/2007 10:34:40

# 298,

85% of Scots do support the choice being given to the people, however. Including 90% of Lib Dems supporters by the way. The Lib Dems now look very much like Labour at the time of Blair's takeover - and party highjacked by a cell at the top completely opposed to the traditional values of the members. Namely, democracy.

# 301,

Good to know, hopefully you are right and this is just Labour trying to muddy the waters of this worst Scottish performance in several decades. Thanks.

292

ayrshie,

Drongan,Ayrshire 06/05/2007 10:34:52

#AllanSmart

Your crooked petition is as bad as the labour party corruption. You ask for $10 (yes dollars) and this week I have seen a few of this type of petitions.
Dont anyone be fooled this is a rip off so under no circumstances give this guy your credit or debit card details.
Police involvement maybe required here.

293

Ian,

06/05/2007 10:35:38

Nearly all Rangers fans refuse to vote SNP as they are afraid the union gets broken up.They reckon Rangers would fall apart if Scotland went out the UK.
A straight two way fight would have these morons automatically voting Labour for the hell of it.
Just shows what kind of country we live in when football gets in the way of voting how the country is run.
You don't believe me ? - Ask a Rangers fan - But for THE TRUTH.

294

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfropolis 06/05/2007 10:36:09

#304 TMWK

What is this twenty questions?

I recall he was suspended in the early eighties circa 1981 - 1982 for approximately six months?

295

GD,

Glasgow 06/05/2007 10:37:49

Yawn.......what a farce!

296

Flabskin,

Badfort 06/05/2007 10:38:22

#216 AM2

"#197 OscarMacApfel
Why is it meaningful to simply add constituency+regional votes like that?"

Think of it as a different kind of "The Claimant Count is at 3% - a historical low!"

That will help you to understand it a bit better.

297

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:40:13

305

We cant afford to let this lie for years. Investigation will turn to cover up and then white wash. We,ve already been down this road too many times before with this government and party.
The independent monitoring body are not happy with the conduct of the election that should be enough and acceptable for any honest executive to at least take legal advice on their options.
The answer from this executive however is to let the perpetrators investigate themselves which is only going to compound the discredibility of this entire election.
Not only do we need to clean this up but we need to be seen cleaning it up.

298

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfropolis 06/05/2007 10:40:23

'303. AM2, Glasgow / 11:30am 6 May 2007

#291 TMWK

So I see. Most nationalists need to be handed varying lengths of rope before they hang themselves. Boyce is self-sufficient in that regard.'


AM2 if you are going to make references to ropes and hanging can I suggest you take a long hard look at this first.

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=483070357&size=o

299

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 10:40:48

Boyce, given your previous position, presumably you will be leading way when the ethnic cleansing starts?

And why? Because someone has a different political affiliation than you. How democratic - you're not related to Mugabe are you?

300

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:41:12

312

We can always hold the elections when Rangers are playing abroad.

301

Brian Hill,

Brian Hill 06/05/2007 10:41:36

Presumably if the challenge is accepted by the courts the election of 'First Minister' or Prime Minister as I prefer, would have to be delayed? What happens if the challenge cannot be resolved within the period stpulated for selection of said office?

Do we then re-run the entire election? Perhaps we should. Then the 'Power at any Costs' Labour party could be rewarded accordingly by the electorate.

302

James Annand,

06/05/2007 10:42:33

Wouldn't they have to recount the regional list, and therefore have to recount every single constituency in the region?


If the Labour party go ahead with this, they are nuts. I'm sure that I won't be the only one protesting in front of the Parliament, and come next time out they are going to be destroyed at the polls.

I notice that they were just taking it on the chin until the SNP said they were going to call for a full enquiry. Do they have something to hide, per chance?

303

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:42:35

319

Come on CJO, don't kick Boyce when he's down.

304

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:42:41

319

Its that the lastest Unionist scare story ethnic cleansing? Christ I was begining to think you c*nts couldnt get any lower.

305

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:43:36

319

Down where? there's no room left in the gutter its full of Unionists.

306

IainGlasgow,

06/05/2007 10:43:37

It just occurred to me - what is going on with the press? Why are they not hounding out those responsible for this debacle?

From what I can see when Cathy Jamieson spoke to the press yesterday, she walked along the street (completely igonred by passers by and those sitting on the steps behind her) with a sly grin on her face to meet a lone BBC camera. The BBC don't appear to see it as a major news issue and ITV news were apparently oblivious to the whole thing yesterday.

That's in stark contrast to the media circus that was surrounding the SNP at Holyrood. Even Nicol Stephen had more attention from journalists that Cathy did.

Are strings being pulled to ensure there is minimal media focus on Labour right now?

307

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:44:04

320

Boyce, glad to see you've recovered some of your decorum. The problem with your idea is that they don't play abroad very often.

308

Mark in the North,

Gordon 06/05/2007 10:45:01

I have read thsi story in various news media this morning and I predict that it will go nowhere. Having been involved in this election I can assure you that if the voters intention is clear the vote is given to the intended recipient. The basis of the moaning here is that maybe, perhaps some people voted only in the regional side for a party and forgot to vote on the other side. Its so laughable, I saw hundreds of votes in Gordon that had voted for Alex Salmond for first minister and had not voted on the other side or did the 1,2,3 thing. You can only go by the paper as presented not by your opinion of what the voter intended to do when he didnt vote for you!!

309

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:45:17

324

Boyce, careful. You are losing it again. Try Horlicks.

310

Bill, Dunblane,

06/05/2007 10:46:00

Boyce

Hang in there pal, the cavalry's comin' shortly.

You've held the fort well!

AM2
Royster
The Man Who Knows
Rulesbutnotrulers

Where does New Labour find the money for the overtime?

311

Rickie,

What a F*&^%$£ liberty 06/05/2007 10:46:05

Jack you chose the system and the provider of ancient IT kit to count it now you want to challenge it - B1 forms at your local ofice and I hear they will help you fill it in too....

Was there and after 25 years of seeing elections through to the bitter end I was totally disgusted at the complete sham it was.

Anyone seen any 'actual/real' numbers yet?

312

Pat K,

Cunninghame North 06/05/2007 10:46:16

319 CJO,

Grow up! Ethnic cleansing for god sake! The only corruption of any sort we have seen in this election is on the side of the incumbents. Dougie Alexander is responsible for the system with wee guy Cairns. Also that overlooks the 40 years of gerrymandering that has gone on to make this result so close. The Labour Party in Scotland can most certainly be compared to Zanu PF, but not its opponents.

313

SEUMAS,

TAIN 06/05/2007 10:46:22

I THOUGHT MACHIAVELLI WAS DEAD, BUT I WAS WRONG, HE IS ALIVE AND SPINNING IN THE SCOTTISH LABOUR PARTY

314

Sense and worth o'er the Earth,

Scotland 06/05/2007 10:47:28

This nonsense of 'people didn't vote for Independence' wont rub.

1 - the SNP campaign wasn't based on Ind. It was based on giving people the choice. i.e. the very heart of politics!
2 - the 'Unionist' parties have their own politic rationale and beliefs. They have their own politics.
3 - If you are suggesting that people are not voting for Independence (wrong assumption - above) then can we conclude that people were *NOT* also voting for unionism?

I swear, the only travesty here - on the back of a fumbled Labour-led election process (which has nevertheless fired back on them) would be the travesty that we're even talking about a Lab/Lib pact again.

I would duly hope the people of Scotland would see the Brown/Menzies Campbell interference direct - realise that such interference is NOT in the interest of the Scottish electorate and take to the streets in their hundreds of thousands.

If Labour continue on this vein, dastardly corrupt ******** that they are, then they will see a real rupture - an *actual* separation of the Scottish people.

315

walter,

06/05/2007 10:47:48

This challenge has absolutely nothing to do with thousands of papers people did not fill out properly due to the fact they could not understand the simple instructions on how to complete which the vast majority did or those that were deliberately spoiled.
This challenge is about the papers that were filled out properly, that were counted on Arran and then dispatched to Irvine, that were ruined during transportation, that when counted in Irvine there was a discrepancy in the count, a discrepancy that was pointed out and ignored, a discrepancy that means the wrong person may have been elected, a discrepancy that means the people of that constituency may not have the person they wanted as their MSP.
It would be good to see some argument on the actual facts of this rather than people trying to make it out to be some thing it is not.

316

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 10:48:12

324 - Dear Mr Mugabe, sorry Boyce, another classic riposte once again. Is this really all the people of Scotland can expect from SNP leaders and their beserkers - name calling?

317

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 06/05/2007 10:49:33

331

Bill, the trouble is that Boyce has given guns to the Native Americans and is now surrounded.

318

GrahamH,

06/05/2007 10:51:02

Labour can't be allowed to determine which seats to cherry pick to query. Let's all have a go - my choice is Cumbernauld and Labours 6.4% increase in share of votes!

319

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:51:29

331

And just in time for lunch too.

320

Pat K,

Cunninghame North 06/05/2007 10:51:50

# 337 CJO,

Whilst there is an element of truth in some unfortunate name-calling here, why are you picking out the SNP? The SNP ran the most positive debate by far.

The Labour Party based its entire campaign on negativity and name calling! The Unionist Parties failed completely to make a case for Scotland's future and instead starting calling their opponents 'unworthy to govern', 'extremists' etc ... It smacks of totalitarian regimes frankly!

321

Lock,

06/05/2007 10:51:59

On the assumption that a large percentage of the numpties that couldn't put a couple of 'X's in boxes were trying to vote for Labour (a fair assumption I think) you can see why they might want some kind of recount.

I can't imagine it being some larger conspiracy because why would Labour put themselves at such a disadvantage by trying to confuse the idiots in the electorate when most of those idiots will be voting for them?

322

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:52:11

338

Just as well they dont know which end the bullets come out of then.

323

David MacVicar,

web 06/05/2007 10:53:03

AM2, I agree that no single party has a large mandate one way or the other but Labour have lost their majoity no matter how you cut it. A coalition here is the best way forward and an investigation that is NOT lead by labour or their hangers on is something everyone should want to see. This fiasco might yet be the best thing to have happened in this election.

Labour have also said that Alex Salmond demanding a full judicial enquiry into the Scottish elections is picking a fight with westminster!! What total crap!

If we want to talk about mandates lets talk about Gordon Brown as PM. Nobody elected him for that position. 80% of councils in England are now tory run. He spearheaded the campaign in Scotland along with Blair where they do not represent any constituency onor were they running for any SP seat . They interefered totally in this election an nevertheless have been rejected by the people. He is not wanted by the electorate in Scotland nor England for the job and yet he will very likely be PM in a matter of days.

324

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 10:53:55

Pat K - my reference to ethnic cleansing is purely taking the illiberal line to its extreme. Unfortunately, history shows us this does happen.

I think it is plain for all to see that if ethnic cleansing were being organised (sic) in Scotland it would fail. Look at the shambles of an election. If they tried to shoot anyone the gun would go off long before it left its holster.

325

Bill, Dunblane,

06/05/2007 10:55:38

Rulesbutnotrulers

Straight question requiring straight answer.

Why do you keep including dead people and people who simply did not vote as being in favour of your arguement?

By my reckoning (using your method), 66% of the people did not support the union in this election, including you, as you say you didn't vote.

Perhaps AM2 (such an expert with figures) could elucidate your claim?

326

pehman,

sussex 06/05/2007 10:55:53

326 IainGlasgow,

Labour are just so yesterday.

327

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfropolis 06/05/2007 10:56:16

The Man Who Knows. Any response yet?

AM2 Nothing more on the near 60,000 people who preferred the SNP to noose carrying Labour?

Also, I repeat any view on whether Douglas Alexander, the muppet in human form, should resign over his flawed supervision of the election?

328

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 10:56:22

345

And I think that statement lends you all the credibility you deserve.
ethnic cleansing What next selling secrets to the Iranians?

329

Electric Hermit,

06/05/2007 10:59:19

Looks like McConnell has his orders from London. A challenge in the courts must inevitably open a can of worms of the kind that any but the most desperate would studiously avoid.

Does the British Labour Party seriously imagine that a re-run of the election could possibly be to their advantage?

330

William Hook,

Oxford 06/05/2007 10:59:22

Typical Labour. This party has a tendency to be unable to accept that they have been defeated. Labour is committed to democracy provided that it is to their benefit. It was the Labour party that decided to use the counting system that they are now complaining about.

Automatic counting of ballots should have been used on a trial basis in a few areas. Only when it was proven to work should it have been rolled out. Labour have been happy to change things at far too fast a pace.

In England they used postal only voting in some areas for the European and local elections. The result is that certain LABOUR councillors in Birmingham were done for making up voters / stealing votes.

331

CJO,

The Maghreb 06/05/2007 11:00:31

349 - So ethnic cleansing doesn't come from extremists taking their point of view/ethnicity as the only way and everyone else is therefore beneath them and must be suppressed or crushed?

Go and enjoy your lunch, I'm away to sit in the sun for a couple of hours by which time you may have calmed down and stopped calling people names, though that may be all you know.

332

Pat K,

Cunninghame North 06/05/2007 11:01:06

CJO - History shows many things. Your comment is nothing to do with modern Scotland - or indeed anywhere in western Europe. The idea that thinking your nation is not somehow lesser than others leads to 'ethnic cleansing' is ridiculous!

I just find it incredible with all this Labour-inspired confusion and undemocratic practices (thousands of copies of the Sun's 'noose' front pages in polling stations across Fife and Ayrshire that I know of) you still find time to attack nationalism as somehow racist!

333

connaughtboy,

06/05/2007 11:03:08

Now we have rid ourselves of New Labour, can I make a plea that we stop using the word "numptie". I don't want to be reminded of wee Joke every day.

334

pehman,

sussex 06/05/2007 11:04:05

351 William Hook,

See also Sheffield

335

Derick fae Yell,

The World 06/05/2007 11:04:05

228. Dode, Shetland / 10:51am "Can anyone tell me, who did instigate this cock-up of a voting system?"

Certainly Dode, aa you hae ta do is akse a Yell man, ie me..

At previous elections the constituency vote, and the regional vote were on two separate ballot papers. This time they were combined on one paper. That decision was made by the Scottish Secretary, Douglas Alexander [Labour Westminster MP fur Paisley, and protege of Gordon Broon]. He claimed it would "make things easier for voters".

Tha Arbuthnot Commission recommended that Parliament and Local Government elections should be held on different days. The Lib/Lab Executive chose to ignore that. AND to introduce multimember wards AND 1,2,3 style voting. All on the same day.
The First Minister, Jack McConnell had the final say on this matter.

Jake McWhatshisname also had the final say regarding the new computerised system. A company called DRS was awarded an £8.9 million contract to "e-count" the election. The main reason given was as the 1.2.3 system takes ages to count by hand, they thought the machines be faster. WRONG. as you have to redistribute 2nd and 3d choices. DRS is based in Milton Keynes. Former Labour leader Neil Kinnock is a non-executive director. The company says he was not involved in the awarding of the contract. £8.9milliion! (Labour/p*ssup/Brewery/couldn't arrange a)
The electronic DRS system also required use of cardboard ballot boxes, instead of the secure metal ones previously used.

Alex Salmond wishes a full independent Judicial Inquiry into the election arrangements

Douglas Alexander says a Judicial Inquiry is 'not needed' and that instead the Electoral Commission should conduct an "Independent” inquiry

The Electoral Commission's Scottish chief officer is Mr Andy O’Neil, ex COSLA (Labour controlled) and 'ex' Labour Party member. Aye Right!!

I don't know who is

336

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen 06/05/2007 11:06:01

No. 101

Labour and Tory could form a coalition quite easily. They are so close together on so many policies and their mentality is very similar.

Just like Rangers and Celtic ...

337

Neil,

9% Growth 06/05/2007 11:06:47

"Professor John Curtice of Strathclyde University has calculated that if the Cunninghame North seat was handed to Labour, they would win the election"

Gosh - they needed a professor for that.

338

gordonium,

06/05/2007 11:09:11

scotland is doomed, head for the hills!!

339

James Annand,

06/05/2007 11:09:21

AM2

Yeah, you're right. We should wait for the inquiries findings. The inquiry that is conducted by his mates at the Scottish Office.


Do you really think that is acceptable?

340

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfropolis 06/05/2007 11:09:27

#359 AM2 I am merely asking for your personal opinion as to whether you believe that Douglas Alexander should resign or not. A simple yes or no answer will suffice.

341

ScotsLass58,

Red Ken's Toon 06/05/2007 11:11:31

#344 David MacVicar
"Labour have also said that Alex Salmond demanding a full judicial enquiry into the Scottish elections is picking a fight with westminster!! What total crap!"
Bring it on! At least with Alex Salmond's Judicial review we will get the whole truth and not some half baked excuse that we all no doubt expect to see being spouted out by Alexander and his numpty buddies at some point in the future.
Appologies to all for my little bit of AM2esk type cut and pasting here.

342

connaughtboy,

06/05/2007 11:12:40

Labour are about to dump McConnell. What a complete waste of space that wee prat has been. Thank goodness that the great John Smith did not live to witness the wholesale vandalism that McConnell, Jamieson & Co have done to our once great country.

Notice that the Unionists on here never stick up for wee Jack or Cathy, preferring instead to make direct attacks on Salmond.

I have watched the campaign carefully and discussed politics non-stop with others of the same and different political leanings over the past few weeks and one thing the vast majority agree on is that Salmond has conducted himself with far more dignity that McConnell.

The future is bright!

343

Pat K,

Cunninghame North 06/05/2007 11:12:42

CJO - you are the only one throwing serious allegations around. There is a difference between light name-calling and suggesting someone is a potential ethnic clenser or a racist!

Lets just examine some more history shall we - Labour has lost its status as the biggest party for the first time since the fifties or sixties! I think that really explains these vitriolic attacks by CJO. His horse lost the race, simple.

Perhaps when he comes back he will be ready to engage with reality and not some skewed view as Scotland as a potential Balkans in the making!

It will be a disgrace if there is a recount only in Cunninghame North, this is one area where the 'natives' do not take kindly to being ruled by corrupt London elites. This will only be heightened if their democratic will is overturned!

344

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:13:00

352

The closest acts we have had in this country to ethnic cleansing are the highland clearances and General Cumberlands march across Scotland after Culloden.
Not to mention the legislation past by Westminster forbidding the wearing of Clan Tartan, the playing of bagpipes, the playing of ethnic tunes and songs, The gathering of more than 3 Scots in one place at one time, The carrying of weapons, restricted travel etc etc.
This is very dark road you are travelling on are you sure you want to pursue this any further?

345

Royster,

06/05/2007 11:13:08

#360. In Northern Ireland we have a DUP/Sinn Fein government which is the nearest thing to a Rangers/Celtic government.

346

Gordon,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:16:17

Labour want to contest the results of the election, so let them - just include each and every paper, hand examined, not by machine.

Also find out:
-who was responsible for 2 elections on the same day
-who approved the ridiculously flimsy ballot boxes
-whether all papers issued were accounted for
-why data from counts needed to be sent to the company's HO before results could be printed

347

JimC,

06/05/2007 11:17:08

am2 resurfaces - surprise, your heading is wrong, they MAY MAY contest the result. It was Alexander who organised this LABOUR, it was the LABOUR candidate Allan Wilson, who accepted defeat in Irvine on the night - what a loser.

Pat McGlynn said: "I have written to the returning officer asking that we can manually inspect the ballot papers. I expect to see that the vast number of them show that people made the mistake of voting for Labour but then not voting for the candidate.

So Irvine in all of Scotland is a special case is it - get real, and any manuel inspection would need to be done after the decision by a court order. I can see this all reflecting badly on Labour whatever they decide to do.

348

Jimmyczz,

06/05/2007 11:17:24

Its absolutely clear that labour are going to try to steal power back.

349

James,

Dundee 06/05/2007 11:18:01

#329 TMWK

What ever happened to that SNP stalwart Jim Fairlie?

350

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:18:38

369

I forgot to add the Speaking of gaelic.

351

AncientHabbie,

Wirral, Merseyside 06/05/2007 11:18:55

"I have written to the returning officer asking that we can manually inspect the ballot papers. I expect to see that the vast number of them show that people made the mistake of voting for Labour but then not voting for the candidate." says Allan Wilson's agent and.....

Campbell Martin added: "A lot of people saw the Scottish Labour party on the regional list and thought to themselves that they were voting for Allan Wilson. People were so confused. So many of them voted on the regional list but left the constituency one blank."

Nothing different about this than what went on at counts all over Scotland. I was at the count for the 2 Paisley seats and W. Renfrewshire at Linwood Leisure Centre and we spotted this very early on in the count. Fortunately, there were a couple of folk from the Electoral Commission at that count and we pointed this problem out to them by about 11.15 p.m.

So, if Labour challenge the Cunninghame North result on the basis that folk got mixed up with the 2 Parliamentary ballot papers on the same sheet of paper and win the challenge, then every result is open to challenge in the courts as this happened at every count in Scotland. However, it just didn't affect Labour, every party suffered.

352

Jimmyczz,

06/05/2007 11:19:30

Reid is resigning at end of June

353

IainGlasgow,

06/05/2007 11:19:38

Head of the Stasi finally shows his face on the Politics Show. He got off very lightly - only asked about who should form a coalition. No mention of the voting mess

354

Gordon,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:21:10

#336 Walter - should we not also be asking why a boat was hired which had no dry area for storing such important goods? - or why the boxes were not suitably wrapped to avoid damage? - or was the damage deliberate?

355

Royster,

06/05/2007 11:21:57

#369. According to Bede, it was the intention of the Welsh king Cadwallon to exterminate the whole English race. He was killed in 634 but he did put the wind up the English in 633 at Doncaster; which, if you have to put the wind up the English, is as good a place as any. Most of the Highland Scots were being hunted down by other Scots, some also from the Highlands.

356

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:22:00

371

Not true it would set a legal precedent and open many seats up for a rerun people wont forgive Labour for this debacle.

357

Listen Ear,

06/05/2007 11:22:39

Gordon #373

I assume the company you refer to is DRS..

Perhaps Niel Kinock had to vet the results first. He is a director of DRS.. the company supplying the vote scanning & counting machines.

358

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfropolis 06/05/2007 11:23:15

372. AM2, Glasgow / 12:15pm 6 May 2007

#364 James: A Scotland Office inquiry should come first.
#365 Oscar: I was entirely clear. No.


So, the person most likely to be at fault for this national embarrasment should judge himself then?

Well that's crystal clear.

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=483070357&size=o

359

Gordon,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:23:20

#377 Boyce - a penalty still in position until the 1970s

360

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:24:05

382

You left out their full title of Unionist Scots not other Scots.

361

Derick fae Yell,

The World 06/05/2007 11:24:57

370 Hello Royster
I didn't realise that you are in Northern Ireland. Well well well. Any relation to AM?

on which subject, AM how can you have the face to say that Douglas Alexander should be allowed to investigate himself. 0/10 must do better. Or the perhaps we could have the Electoral Commission do the whitewash instead?

Full Judicial Enquiry required- nothing less.

362

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:26:37

386

True enough and we werent allowed by law to wear Tartan or play the bagpipes until Queen Victoria decreed it.

363

Pat K,

Cunninghame North 06/05/2007 11:26:40

# 376,

Dont quote me on this but didn't Jim Fairlie stand in Stirling for the "Free Scotland Party"? Think he left due to his opposition to the 'Independence in Europe' policy?

Off to lunch now - Once more it will be a disgrace if Labour get their re-count; they lost the debates, they lost and sense of vision, they lost the popular vote and they lost Cunninghame North!

We are making Scottish elections into an international laughing stock.

364

Archie MacT,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:27:45

I am a Labour supporter and do believe that the order of the ballot paper disadvantaged us. That said lets just move on. the whole thing was a farce but we lost. Legal challenges to drag the whole thing on are a nightmare.

365

Derick fae Yell,

The World 06/05/2007 11:28:03

381
The old secure metal boxes were metal and could take a splash of water, DRS cardboard boxes obviously couldn't. Wouldn't surprise me if the boxes fell apart and the missing ones blew over the side of the boat! There are reports of ballot papers being carried ashore in carrier bags - if the boxes had fallen apart that would explain it. C*ckup rather than conspiracy.

366

Maisie,

06/05/2007 11:29:33

385. OscarMacApfel

Jeezie peeps, thats the first time I have seen the daily records front page, I can hardly believe it, why there isnt a mass boycott of the record and the sun is beyong me.

367

Lastsocialist,

France 06/05/2007 11:31:39

It is a huge stain on the Scottish character that some of its people even consider voting for a party as morally and ideologically bankrupt as the Scottish Labour Party. If Labour had given a damn about the Scottish people it would have taken measures to smash the dependency culture which cripples the Scottish economy. It would also have attempted to recover Scottish North Sea Oil and restore the public's confidence in the democratic process. It did none of these things and deserves to be annhilated at all elections forthwith. Independence for Scotland is the economically realistic and constitutionally sound option. Saor Alba!

368

David MacVicar,

web 06/05/2007 11:33:44

357. Derick fae Yell
Interesting post and I had wondered about the cardboard boxes myself. You say "electronic DRS system also required use of cardboard ballot boxes".

How ANY system require cardboard bowes, this makes no sense?

To Others. McCoanALL should indeed step down but he shouldnt be the scapegoat for all Labours ills. AT the end of the day he is a bit of a puppet man. All and sundry needs investigating right back to those pulling the strings. With Mr Brown and MrBmair taking such a direct interest in the whole election the outcomes might be far reaching.

With numerous incidents of suspected fraud in England by Labour activists I would be very surprised, with the Scottish elections clearly in the balance, that we somehow managed to get a farcical but somehow clean election.

369

Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:34:15

Well, it looks like this one is going to run and run!
However, it should be remembered, the Democrats in Florida wasted millions of dollars of party funds in
appealing against the 'chad ruling'? It took three and
a half years to bounce back and forward between Florida State courts before it reached the U.S. Supreme Court! The Supreme Court Justices eventually threw out the appeal with all costs being met by the Florida Democratic Party Committee! Lachie Todd

370

Royster,

06/05/2007 11:38:17

#388. Never been to NI.

371

Gordon,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:38:54

#382 Derick fae Yell - and cardboard boxes have no locks - the reason for all the conspiracy theories is that the system was designed to be fallable - whoever approved it should - at the very least - be SACKED.

The very least that should have happened is that the boxes should have been covered in a waterproof container - surely the captain of the vessel has a responsibility for the cargo.

372

David MacVicar,

web 06/05/2007 11:38:58

I wonder how long we will have to wait until the details of the contracts and locations for the new Royal Navy ships get announced?

This will kick off fiasco #2.

373

DaisyDy,

06/05/2007 11:40:15

#25 Lorren, USA. Have another try! I've just signed the petition and I've had my conformation email.

I wasn't asked to pay to vote but a donation to i-petition, not to Allan Smart, was requested after I'd signed.

It's not a scam.

374

DaisyDy,

Daisy Dy 06/05/2007 11:43:05

Oops, sorry that comment was a reply to #31.

375

Boyce,

06/05/2007 11:44:39

382

Well there we have it definitive proof of the SNP's manifesto commitment to ethnic cleansing in Scotland I should have read the small print under the heading Cadwallon the terrible our promises to you.

376

rothay,

England 06/05/2007 11:45:33

Has anyone asked the future leader of Labour what his views are on this mess. BETTER STILL Can anyone find Gordon. Should we offer prizes for a sighting. Has anybody seen him since the election results were announced. Has he publicly thanked his supporters for their efforts. Does he actually exist or are he and Tony are reincarnation of Jekyll and Hyde.

377

JamesT,

Austria 06/05/2007 11:45:39

Sore losers, COUNT all votes then, Labour are contesting that there wee pals in Westminster Scottish Office couldnae rig it good enough.... The people have sent you a message McConnell your out of touch with scotland and its time for a change.

378

Royster,

06/05/2007 11:45:39

Whatever the venom spouted against Labour, the party looks distinctly less dodgy than the SNP with its 'Alex Salmond for First Minister' three card trick.

379

David MacVicar,

web 06/05/2007 11:46:52

Seems there may be other challenges check:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6629093.stm

"Two separate challenges to the results of the Scottish Parliament are being considered, it has emerged."

380

Pilrig,

Livingston 06/05/2007 11:47:08

AM #359 - a 'Huttonesque' enquiry into the ballot balls-up on the cards ?

381

Banana Heid,

Cunninghamme North 06/05/2007 11:49:37

Labour are just miffed that their doctoring of the results have not worked as they planned. Scumbags.

382

IWright,

06/05/2007 11:50:05

This just gets worse. I thought this was about spoiled ballots, but it appears what spoiled some of them was the failure of people to vote Labour. If they successfully challeng this then a precedent will be set for all the other spoiled ballots.

383

Jimmyczz,

06/05/2007 11:50:41

Tavish Scott has just said its either a dela with the SNP or backbenches .... they will NOT go into another deal with Labour.

384

Royster,

06/05/2007 11:50:48

#400. Are you and Lorren UK residents? If it involves paying money to the SNP then it is illegal if you are not resident in the UK. Check with the SNP if you don't believe me. By the way, what is this petition? Again, if you are not UK residents, why are you petitioning with regard to UK politics? Talking about it is one thing but petitioning and funding are different.

385

JamesB,

Glasgow 06/05/2007 11:51:12

Labour want to challenge the results they don't like, but presumably not their own narrow victories ?

I think this exposes labour as a thoroughly bankrupt oligarchy who are prepared to play fast and loose with Democracy simply to keep themselves on the gravy train they assumed they would be safely on for life.Whatever happens with these challenges to the results I hope that next time round voters finish the job and bury them at the bottom of the midden where they belong. It's time for all decent Labour party members,workers and supporters to reconsider their future in a party that is now a disgusting rotting shell of what people like me once, (a long time ago now), believed in.

386

IainGlasgow,

06/05/2007 11:51:49

The SNP have an overall majority of total votes of 50,000. For Labour to equal that then half of the spoilt ballots would need to be intended labour votes.

Even if this does get to court I doubt there is a single judge in the country who would be willing to overturn the result and effectively appoint Labour as the Largest party.

Even politicians remember favours. The Tories should consider the possibility that the SNP may be in a position to help them topple Labour at the UK election if they win as many constituencies as they did in this election.

387

FrankyB,

Livingston 06/05/2007 11:52:09

Well done SNP!

The Labour Party took us to war against our wishes and are responsible for the deaths and turmoil not only in Iraq but the spread of this confusion and death around the world.

Now the Labour Party seek to rule us against our wishes.

Bullet or Ballot?

The Labour Party should be ashamed of themselves and so should the Liberal (un)Democarats.

388

Juvescot,

Turin 06/05/2007 11:52:19

Labour are moaning the same way that Celtic supporters moan when they think they 'were denied a penalty kick' in any game they lost fair and square.

389

Royster,

06/05/2007 11:53:09

#406. For the sake of the country I hope they let the result stand and do not take it to court (and I'm a Unionist).

390

Alistair Stewart,

DUNDEE 06/05/2007 11:53:19

Reid to quit as home secretary

So John Reid the BIGGEST FAILURE of a HOME SECRETARY ever is stepping doon before Broon kicks him out in week one of his coronation!!

REID

FAILURE IN NHS ROLE

KILLED SCOTTISH REGIMENTS IN DEFENCE ROLE

and in his Role asd Home Secrtary he has overseen a HUGE RISE IN ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR/FAILED AYSLUM / DANGEROUS PRISONERS ON THE RUN/ MADE POLICEFORCE INTO DESKBASED PENPUSHERS

Get out and stay out YOU UNIONIST MORON!
Your not fit for ANY purpose!!!

391

Jimmyczz,

06/05/2007 11:54:54

ROFL ..... idiot lawyer suggests contacting every voter whose paper was rejected and ask them what they intended to vote

392

larhen1,

manchester 06/05/2007 11:56:06

So the SNP won the seat with a 'handful of votes'. 48 votes is some hand! Typical of the corrupt NuLab outfit to complain when they have been rejected. They introduced a postal vote system which is so bent that even a Crown Court judge described it as being worthy of a banana republic.
In Birmingham three Labour councillors were actually caught in the act of filling in postal votes in a back shed. These NuLabour mafia should be brought to court for corruption...maybe even join Blair and Levy in the dock. Let's hope so.

393

Steve Foley,

England 06/05/2007 11:56:20

Am I reading this correctly?

Labour are quite happy about the way that the Elections in general were held, never mind the 100,000 rejected ballot papers and the non issued postal votes, yet on the Cunninghame North result they are prepared to go to Court to overturn the result on the very specious grounds that if someone voted Labour on the Regional Paper only, they would have automatically voted that way for their Candidate Allan Wilson. Even the great and wise AM2 stated here a few days before Polling Day that he was going to mix his vote, Labour on one paper and Tory on the other. This Labour response to losing this seat reminds me of Elections in North Korea in the days of Kim Il Sung (yes they DID have them) , where he and his Party were returned with 99% of the poll.

Scottish Labour, get real! Remember the greats of your History, Maxton, Hardie, Shinwell, Wheatley etc and try to act like the MEN they were and not like spoilt kids. Accept the results, try to form your own coalition or if this cannot work become the Official Opposition and Constructively Oppose.

394

James,

Dundee 06/05/2007 11:56:56

#392 I also heard that in Edinburgh that some of the cardboard boxes had been accidentally crushed and they were placing the ballots in poly bags. This was reported to the returning officer by a concerned member of the public.

395

Tom R,

06/05/2007 11:57:03

#170 AM2

The SNP won the most votes on the constituency vote.

The SNP won the most votes on the list vote.

Both the above would still be true even if the Cunninghame result were reversed BUT Labour would have had more seats primarily because the systym established by Labour was intended to give Labour an unfair advantage in a close fight. Their plan has failed marginally-by the 48 vote SNP majority at Cunninghame North- NO WONDER THEY ARE FURIOUS THAT THEIR SUBTLE-BUT VERY REAL- ATTEMPTED GERRYMANDER DID NOT COME OFF!!

396

Pilrig,

Livingston 06/05/2007 11:57:11

Royster #417 - hear ! hear ! btw you should visit NI, the Ulster fry is delicious.

397

plord,

edinburgh 06/05/2007 11:57:22

i'm with #3
if the liberals ignore the peoples voice and refuse to form a government with the snp alex salmond should hold another election.
any new election should have the postal vote sorted and the security measures in place as well as hand counting of 3 ballot papers.

398

Pilrig,

Livingston 06/05/2007 11:59:32

418 - and he couldnae save his local A & E (Monklands) from closure !

399

Alistair Stewart,

DUNDEE 06/05/2007 12:01:01

#426

Aye - but he managed to save himself from arrest for the cannabis found in his hoose though!!!

400

JimC,

06/05/2007 12:04:04

#145
The point is that any candidate can call a re-count on the night, any objections must be lodged on the night with the returning officer, were these objections lodged, the answer is a clear no as a declaration was made.

401

Angus Ogg,

Leaving On A Ferry 06/05/2007 12:05:41

"The LibDems will NOT have a coalition with Labour"

Direct quote from LibDem MSP on BBC 1 ten minutes ago.

It was a bit of a shock as usually politicians wriggle or don't answer the question properly.

I don't have a huge amount of respect for LibDems, but my respect for Tavish Scott has just gone up significantly.

There was no equivocation.

When asked by interviewer Glenn Campbell would the LibDems support Labour in a coalition, Tavish Scott was decisive and sure footed: "NO, the LibDems will NOT support Labour in a coalition". When pressed by Campbell, Tavish Scott repeated that the LibDems will NOT support Labour in a coalition.

So Jack McConnell and his amulance chasing lawyer chums, PLEASE accept that you lost the election with some grace and keep what dignity you have left.

Jack, it is now time for you to come out from your bunker and make a dignified statement.

If by 31st May 2007 there is no First Minister elected, then by law, Scotland must go to the polls again. If that happens, I am certain the electorate will reward the Labour Party accordingly. Methinks that Labour will lose more seats if this happens, and further damage what little electoral credibility they have left.

402

alanh,

EK 06/05/2007 12:06:21

just a wee comment by why were boxes openned and counted at Arran?
the ballot boxes had all to be returned, unopened, to the central counts in ALL areas and the seasls checked by the election officers there?