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Christian right invades 'gay capital'

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Published Date: 11 March 2007
IT IS the type of event that cities usually salivate over: more than 20,000 teenagers, all with a keen interest in pop culture, plenty of chaperones and, of course, pockets full of disposable income.
But when the group in question is a Christian ministry from Texas that condemns homosexuality and the place is San Francisco, often referred to as "the gayest city in America", the civic welcome wagon collapses pretty quickly.

This weekend sees B
attleCry, a two-day gathering at AT&T Park, a baseball stadium, which includes performances by Christian rock bands and inspirational speakers. Organisers say it is a way for young Christians to speak out against what they view as destructive cultural elements, including sex on television, obscene music and violent video games.

"This culture is really hammering this generation," said Ron Luce, founder of Teen Mania, the Texas-based ministry that sponsors and promotes BattleCry. "Whether it's being accosted with horrible sexually suggestive messages or the garbage in the video game world, corporate America is raping and pillaging American teenagers. And everyone is just walking by."

But several prominent San Francisco political leaders say Luce's group is the one doing the damage, using its young members as a conduit for a message of intolerance.

"They are being fed, spoon-fed, hate," said Tom Ammiano, a member of the city's Board of Supervisors, who is gay. "And it is incumbent on any group receiving that hate, particularly gay people, to speak out."

Aaron Peskin, the board's president, called BattleCry "reckless and irresponsible".

"We need to increase understanding of our human differences, not teach our kids to be suspicious and hateful towards people unlike them," Peskin said in a statement.

It is not the first time that BattleCry has been given the cold shoulder from San Franciscans. The group held a concert in the city last year, an event that was greeted by a resolution from the Board of Supervisors calling BattleCry a "right-wing Christian fundamentalist group" trying "to negatively influence the politics of America's most tolerant city".

Opponents have said that the rhetoric used onstage during these events is overtly anti-gay and subtly militaristic.

Ben Rosen, a San Francisco organiser with World Can't Wait, which is leading the protests, said his group was trying to repudiate what it sees as the deeper goals of BattleCry, including "imposing their biblical fundamentalist worldview on the country".

Rosen said protesters recognised that they were dealing with a delicate balance of wishing to express their opinions without appearing to be intolerant themselves.

"We're not out to yell at kids that believe in Jesus: 'That's awful,'" he said. "It would be great," he said of BattleCry, "if it didn't have this very serious, very pernicious backbone to it."

Tasha White, 18, attended the event last year and said it had opened her eyes to "a culture leading us into brokenness".

"You look at Britney Spears, and what she did and that leads to divorce and rehab and drugs, and that's a negative influence," said White, who lives in nearby San Bruno and said she had had problems with underage drinking. "And that's not something I believe our generation should be looking forward to."

White added she did not think there was anything anti-gay about the event, though she believes gay people are "misguided". Luce echoed that sentiment, saying his group loves gay people, but does firmly believe their sexuality is sinful.

"We see homosexuality like a lot of other things that do harm to us, like lying or cheating or stealing," he said.

With high-profile evangelical supporters like the Reverend Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, BattleCry is just one part of Luce's campaign to energise young Christians. In addition to San Francisco, BattleCry events are planned this spring in Baltimore and Detroit, with dozens of smaller 'Acquire the Fire' events in other cities featuring Christian music and speakers.

Joe D'Alessandro, the president of the San Francisco Convention and Visitors Bureau, a private nonprofit group, said the two-day event was too small to have a significant impact on the local economy, but he said its organisers should be allowed to hold BattleCry nonetheless.

"I think we have to practice tolerance, whether or not they practice tolerance," D'Alessandro said. "I'm gay myself, and I find their beliefs very offensive. But they have a right to come to our city."

A ra

dical reputation
FO

R those in the know, San Francisco was seen as the gay capital from the 1920s because of its reputation for partying.

However, it became a major focus for gays during the Second World War because it was the main place where the US military's dishonourable discharges were processed.

The American forces had an active policy to seek out and dismiss homosexuals and the vast majority of the 9,000 thrown out were dismissed in San Francisco.

During the 1960s the city attracted a new wave of more radical lesbians and gays who flocked to San Francisco, partly for its reputation as a radical, left-wing centre.

Today, the gay population of the city is estimated to be approximately 15% and remains an important force. One of the best-known of the gay population of San Francisco is stand-up comedian Scott Capurro, left, who in 1994 was awarded the Perrier Award for best newcomer at the Edinburgh Fringe.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 10 March 2007 10:08 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Gay and Lesbian issues
 
1

Bill, Dunblane,

11/03/2007 01:33:13

Whit's wi' SOS today? - Trying to stage a muck slingin' contest?

Religion AND homosexuality - nae winners on the comments, only sad myopic numpties.

First post of what, 500? - and ALL meaningless.

2

,

11/03/2007 02:36:02
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3

brian mcc,

the arctic 11/03/2007 03:02:51

It is very cold and windy here, but clear. There is a voice in the wind...have you ever heard let alone seen the northern lites, the aurora borealis? And I heard a whisper...like a forgotten comandment. Thou shalt not take unto oneself another...
Thou shalt not listen to false prophets...
Thou shalt not...
What do you want, another earthquake to take them where they deserve to go?

4

bill inch,

11/03/2007 03:38:26

no vid from the white supremist yey. what will we do?

5

Bikewoman,

11/03/2007 03:55:07

#3 brian mcc

"What do you want, another earthquake to take them where they deserve to go?"

Well the fundamentalists are certainly increasing their chance of an earthquake sending them there if they visit California. I will give you that.

6

Bill, Dunblane,

11/03/2007 04:03:25

3 - Brian

Very descriptive - I can almost feel it.

7

Finnking,

Finland 11/03/2007 05:59:00

"...corporate America is raping and pillaging American teenagers."

Them too, huh?

8

,

11/03/2007 06:19:20
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9

,

11/03/2007 06:30:31
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10

,

11/03/2007 06:32:39
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11

Djookers,,

Back in the hoose 11/03/2007 06:40:29

#10 Get a life and you own name

12

,

11/03/2007 06:46:48
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13

,

11/03/2007 06:49:48
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14

,

11/03/2007 06:55:22
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15

,

11/03/2007 07:19:16
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16

john montgomery,

11/03/2007 07:21:00

once again the gay lobby tries to attack democracy and free speech. It's a form of facism

17

,

11/03/2007 07:23:08
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18

,

11/03/2007 07:23:09
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19

,

11/03/2007 07:24:27
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20

Djookers,,

11/03/2007 07:29:56

#17

Go get a life!

21

Djookers,

The Cumberland bar 11/03/2007 07:33:51

#20

so what does your name mean troll???

22

Pocket Dictionary,

11/03/2007 07:50:10

Stand back a minute, Gays also criticise evangelical Christians and have been known to INVADE church pulpits (Outrage did this).
It's a free speech issue and should not be a one way street where only one side gets to criticise another. As long as either side does not advocate violence or discrimination against the other they should be allowed to hold their parades and conventions and express the view that they disagree with the other side.

23

lisa,

perth 11/03/2007 08:01:02

Keep it up guys. Don't let a little bit of tolerance and understanding get in the way of your prejudices.

Both San Francisco and Salt Lake City are nice places to be with no sense of the different philosophies which characterise them both.

I'd be much happier in either of them than in a community dominated by religious rednecks.

24

Ichabod,

11/03/2007 08:14:38

Funny how those that preach 'tolerance' of their behaviour, are intolerant of Christians.

The intolerance of the tolerant knows no bounds.

25

,

11/03/2007 08:29:39
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26

Centurion2,

Glasgow 11/03/2007 08:56:49

Why are homosexuals referred to as "gays"?. They are more notable for complaining.

"Girns" would be a better description.

27

Cadgers,

Perth 11/03/2007 09:07:40

#23 Lisa well said. Personally I think Mr Jesus got his name in the bible storybook because he was always welcome at parties.......supplying the food and the wine!

28

Mikey,

11/03/2007 09:46:43

Ah, the intolerant, religious right. Just what one needs on a Sunday mornng.

No doubt, these, so called, Xtains, missed the bits in the bible about pharisees and false prophets! So what else is new? They only pick out the bits that suit their inane, bigoted philosophies anyway!

While I have no interest in Gay sex, I have less interest in these warped scumbags who try to set themselves up as the saviours of mankind.

Who would you say was more trustworthy? A gay roadsweeper or an adult who talks to an imaginary friend and inculcates hate in teenagers

29

albanman,

Edinburgh 11/03/2007 09:47:42

The lack of tolerance on both sides is lamentable. Everyone in society should be treated with respect regardless of their race, religious belief, sexual orientation etc. Unfortunately, there is a great deal of opinion being thrown about in this forum, but without much reasoning attached; this only serves to show an uninformed/unthinking mind. I strongly support the equality of gays and lesbians, but also the Christian teens who want to meet in SF. For those who have actually read the article Joe D'Allessandro's comment is spot on.

30

BK,

Cyberspace 11/03/2007 10:31:07

I thought the Religious Right were too busy defying their commandment "Thou shalt not kill" in Iraq and in their prisons with their captial punishment obsession to worry about gays in SF.

31

Mart on Skye,

11/03/2007 10:33:40

This is an unbelievably one sided report. We are not told what the Christian group are actually saying to the teenagers.
We only get what their opponents say they are saying.
It would appear from the little evidence in the article that the Christian groups argument is largely with the heterosexual exploitation of young people through music and teen culture along with violence in video games etc.

We are not told what they are telling teenagers about homosexuality or what their attitudes to homosexuals should be.

Taking a moral stand and proclaiming what they believe to be right or wrong is not spoon feeding hate.
Tolerance is so often confused with love/concern/respect these days. What loving parent tolerates bad behaviour from there child if they believe that behaviour is harmful?

We need some clear thinking and accurate reporting not the usual misinformation from journalists with a particular angle trying to stir things up.

32

Alec in Chicago,

11/03/2007 10:57:00

25

You mean the Bible that condones slavery, selling your daughter, caning young children...?

Nice basis for morality, indeed.

33

Alec in Chicago,

11/03/2007 11:21:08

31 Mart on Skye

I live in the US.

I know what these lying, degenerate hypocrites say.

This was practically a love-note to them.

Further, which might not concern you much there on Skye, but is very important to us here in the US, they are trying to tear down the wall of separation between church and state (re: First Amendment to the Constitution).

As for:

1. divorce: Count the number of neocons in the government who have been divorced - some more than once (and don't leave out the adulterers, if you're going to be shouting about biblical morality;

2. drugs: Go straight to the White House.

Of course, if it's done by one of theirs, it's not a sin or indicative of a lack of morality: it's mere human failings.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007...

34

,

11/03/2007 11:38:01
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35

I'm no really here,

11/03/2007 12:27:17

No, #1. It should only be about 125 posts. The article has nothing about dogs gone missing and found again. So, there goes my 20 posts for a start.

""I think we have to practice tolerance, whether or not they practice tolerance," D'Alessandro said. "I'm gay myself, and I find their beliefs very offensive. But they have a right to come to our city."

I think there is a basic misconception about Christianity (and I am Christian). Who says that Christianity is about toleration? I'm not homosexual, and I find homosexual's beliefs very offensive.

36

Sedov,

Scotland 11/03/2007 12:33:05

As an atheist, I beleive in, and practice, forgiveness and tolerence. Fundemental Christian one day, marxist revolutionary another. thats life. Everything is up for change because if we do not - we are all doomed!

37

Mart on Skye,

11/03/2007 12:43:16

I just did a google search on this organisation and found their websites.

Despite searching I couldn't find anything that sounds like hatred of homosexuals but I did find advice for teenagers to be very kind and considerate to their friends in telling them what they believe and why.

There was some stuff that I thought appeared to be more of an aggresive presentation style rather than aggresive content.

On balance I couldn't see very much evidence of what they are accused of doing.

38

,

11/03/2007 12:50:14
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39

Roddy,

Edinburgh 11/03/2007 12:52:26

Well bit late on the debate going on here but its nice to see we are all still living on 70's. 'Gay are an abomination'? Your ignorant and offensive, can we exchange you for a polish person i find them more agreeable than some in this country

40

Alec in Chicago,

11/03/2007 13:16:25

37 Mart on Skye

Teen Mania is just the indoctrination center. The fanatical religious right function just like any large cult - which may be why so many of them are in cahoots with self-proclaimed 'second coming,' the 'Reverend' Sun Myung Moon, (despite the exhortation to shun false messiahs.)

Don't go to their home page. What would you expect them to do, admit their real (political) agenda?

You can start your search here:

http://acquiretheevidence.com/articles/maryland-republica...

41

Alec in Chicago,

11/03/2007 13:20:34

Amendment to # 40

Starting here might be better:

http://acquiretheevidence.com/index.html

42

Mart on Skye,

11/03/2007 13:37:31

OK - Alec in Chicago I've looked at your link.

Why should I be any more trusting of that than the Teenmania one?

Lots of conjecture - little evidence.

43

Dragomir,

11/03/2007 13:40:24

Ironically it's Christianity that produces the most gay people. All that sexual repression and stereotyping of women just make the gay man inside grow.

I think they should welcome the Christian right to San Francisco, that would scare them more.

44

Bikewoman,

11/03/2007 13:49:55

I am not anti-Christian but I do have a huge problem with anyone who would travel 1500 miles to somoene else's backyard to "protest" their very existence. There is something fundamentally wrong with people who would do that...

45

Bikewoman,

11/03/2007 13:56:13

Also, if you wonder why Christians get a bad rap (and it is not fair to lump all Christians in with the bad eggs) it is because the extremists are so unbelievably horrifying. Have you seen this little gem run by a "Christian" fundamentalist organization?

http://www.godhatesfags.com/

46

J Daneils,

11/03/2007 14:02:52

harassing & the website she posted is a porn site

47

Scaramouche,

11/03/2007 14:10:31

I dislike and distrust fundamentalists of ALL persuasions. I believe in live and let live until someone is hurt, then you have cause for complaint.

48

vriendje's pal,

11/03/2007 14:16:44

42 Mart on Skye

Follow their doings in the US, and then decide which one rings true.

49

J Daneils,

11/03/2007 14:23:13

I'm sure glad the Scotsman was good enuf to remove most all of thatscottishwoman's posts from yesterday.

I've never seen so many hateful Anti-American posts with obscene words before, what's her problem?

50

vriendje's pal,

11/03/2007 14:27:30

46 J Daneils

Those biblical quotes do come pretty close to pornography - and the postings on the church's site! Well!

51

,

11/03/2007 14:31:36
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52

Martha,

11/03/2007 14:39:30

Let's see: conservatives "invade," liberals "teach."

Chalk this up as one more article promoting homosexuality.

Dear Scotsman: San Francisco is in America. The people of America have a right to go to any city in America and protest whatever they want. It is NOT an "invasion." Woops, your far left slip is showing!!

Considering the drumbeat for homosexuality (or did you never watch "Will and Grace?" among other such propaganda programs) that is everywhere in the United States, I'd say that a group of conservative teenagers are extremely courageous to go to such a sinkhole as San Francisco is to protest. Good for them!

53

Martha,

11/03/2007 14:40:55

hey v.'s pal: furnish us with exact times and dates and witnesses to such a scurrilous remark as you claim President Bush made.

54

Martha,

11/03/2007 14:44:36

There are gay parades in San Francisco wherein the homosexual residents try to outdo each other in vulgarity and promiscuity and complete obscenity. They march up and down the streets, taking over the city-- but they are only part of the population.

Why don't you call that what it is: intimidation, harrassment, and disgusting behavior?

Other people in the USA have every right to complain about it and demonstrate against it.

55

,

11/03/2007 14:44:59
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56

Martha,

11/03/2007 14:46:09

vriendje's pal-- what's the matter? Can't come up with any reputable source for your claim?

57

vriendje's pal,

11/03/2007 14:46:37

55 Bikewoman

Thanks!

I know. However, not everyone else does.

58

Martha,

11/03/2007 14:47:35

You are only one person, Bikewoman. You don't speak for other Americans any more than Bush speaks for you-- and that he doesn't is a very, very good thing, frankly.

59

vriendje's pal,

11/03/2007 14:49:51

53 Martha

Good grief!

Do a google search on the quoted phrase - you'll get pages of references!

60

vriendje's pal,

11/03/2007 14:51:05

58 Martha

non sequitur

61

Bikewoman,

No comma and a firm grasp of English syntax 11/03/2007 14:53:19

#52 Martha

Morning! Haven't seen you in a few days. Hope all has been well :)

"Chalk this up as one more article promoting homosexuality [...] Considering the drumbeat for homosexuality (or did you never watch "Will and Grace?" among other such propaganda programs)"

The propoganda of... acknowledging that we exist? That there might be *gasp* gay people among you? These folks came from Texas to protest. There is no justification for that kind of persecution.

Perhaps you can explain why tax-paying, voting Americans who happen to be gay can be dismissed from any government job for being gay? Or why the fine State of Michigan felt it would be acceptable to pass a bill allowing healthcare providers to refuse to treat someone who is gay unless it was a matter of life-or-death?

Maybe you can explain why heterosexuals think that they can parade up and down the streets, engage in public displays of affection (and sometimes more) and display their sexual proclivities up to and including the very act of sexual congress in nearly every film and tv show out there. But Will and Grace in which none of that is shown is propoganda?

Worry about your own bedroom habits. Keep your snoot out of other people's.

62

Bikewoman,

No comma and a firm grasp of English syntax 11/03/2007 14:55:28

#58 Martha

"You are only one person, Bikewoman. You don't speak for other Americans any more than Bush speaks for you-- and that he doesn't is a very, very good thing, frankly."

Ahhh but here's the rub. I never claimed to speak for anyone but me. And you will never hear me claiming that disagreeing with me or criticizing me is the same as "attacking America."

"For the people, by the people..." Ring a bell? A nation is the total sum of its people - we all speak for ourselves and we all speak for a part of our country.

63

right of center,

chicago 11/03/2007 14:56:45

55. Bikewoman

President Bush speaks for all of us USA types. You may not have had the insight to vote for him but he does speak for you.

64

right of center,

chicago 11/03/2007 14:57:16

Good morning Martha

65

vriendje's pal,

11/03/2007 14:57:41

61 Bikewoman

Be careful. They don't like truly American postings.

66

,

11/03/2007 14:57:44
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67

Big Wullie,

Glasgow 11/03/2007 14:58:21

See corruption on a large scale

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WhJUjhequ4

68

vriendje's pal,

11/03/2007 14:59:17

63 right of center

Only officially, not personally.

69

Bikewoman,

No comma and a firm grasp of English syntax 11/03/2007 15:01:12

#63

"President Bush speaks for all of us USA types. You may not have had the insight to vote for him but he does speak for you."

He does not speak for me. He is not my boss - WE are HID boss. But he prefers to treat the presidency as if the country and its citizens were his private plaything ...

If you like countries where the President is "never wrong" and where it is considered a crime to question his doings you might want to check out some of the world's dictatorships. You should feel very comfortable there.

70

right of center,

chicago 11/03/2007 15:05:14

51. vriendje's pal

I can't speak for all of her posts because I did not read them all as I just skimmed thru them yesterday but I can't imagine them all being removed as she is always on the extreme left side of things and that should not be thought of as offensive, wrong maybe but not removed as that only helps our side by allowing people to see how they think :) . I'm not sure why she posted that hateful song but I do not see why it was removed either. I post off topic also and would hope I would not be censored.

71

,

11/03/2007 15:14:12
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72

Jesurgislac,

Scotland 11/03/2007 15:33:05

MartfromSkye: "This is an unbelievably one sided report."

I agree!

http://equality-network.invisionzone.com/index.php?showto...

"We are not told what the Christian group are actually saying to the teenagers. We only get what their opponents say they are saying."

I took a look on the Internet what this BattleCry group are *actually* saying to the teenagers, and I can see why the Scotsman on Sunday isnae posting that - full of stuff about wanting a "blitzkrieg" on America. The SoS want to make this group sound nicer than it is, so they're only quoting the politest opponents, not quoting what the group are actually saying at these rallies.

73

right of center,

chicago 11/03/2007 15:50:43

It's good to see them going to San Fran, I'm sure the locals will have a tissy. San Francisco is a great own only because of it's natural beauty and history. If it had to depend on it's local politics it would not be a tourist destination. The city still enjoys tourism $$ inspite of it's radical left local government.

Why is there outrage over this? Are the same people complaining about complaining when the homos have their in your face parades all over the world? Are they also complaining every time Rosie O'Donnell opens her mouth?

74

Media 1,

11/03/2007 15:59:37

These marching christian freaks who worship a murdering, barbaric, vindictive, blood thirsty ethnic cleanser like the old teatament nutter that is called god should be banned from congregating in public.

They spread hatred, intollerance and disrespect all over the world and it has to be stopped. Once we can rid the world of the evil that is religion, we can begin our recovery process with a return to peace, kindness and respect for all mankind.

76

,

11/03/2007 16:13:04
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77

,

11/03/2007 16:15:16
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78

,

11/03/2007 16:19:16
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79

,

11/03/2007 16:20:11
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80

vriendje's pal,

11/03/2007 16:33:34

79

How Rovian, troll!

81

Bikewoman,

11/03/2007 16:49:02

Doubleplus bad attempt troll

82

vriendje's pal,

11/03/2007 16:51:12

81 Bikewoman

Hello again.

Meant to ask you, do you dpeak Dutch well?

Don't actually speak/read/write it, myself - just know a few words here and there.

83

Bikewoman,

11/03/2007 16:56:59

Hi Vriendje :)

I teach Dutch. I love the language and the culture. (English is my native language though).

Are you learning Dutch?

84

,

11/03/2007 17:06:56
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85

Cristo,

USA 11/03/2007 17:21:14

Here we go again. Liberalism is a mental disorder. If these "gay rights people will stop pushing" it to congress about "their right to abnormal feelings" and relationships, i think the Christian conservatives will "stop pushing" them to the "corner". I am not against their abnormal feelings, just keep it to themselves, just don't "destroy the normal nature" of '"real family values'" and "don't mock the sanctity of the marriage" define as the union of a Man and Woman only. Animals are more Humane looking for their opposite sex compared to these contagious feelings, just "keep it to yourself" and leave the "normal people alone".

86

Oliver F,

UK 11/03/2007 17:50:58

I doubt thatscottishwoman has been banned at all. Shes probably just busy with real life.

As for the issue at hand in the article. If this church group wants to preach intolerance for gay people then let it. Its called free speech. Their views may be offensive but they are entitled to express them.

87

jamesfm,

11/03/2007 17:52:41

If christians are against homosexuality, then why is it fun to stay at the YMCA?

88

Biker,

Ayr 11/03/2007 17:52:47

For the uniniciated. Djookers is the pub close to Tynecastle football ground which used to sell the very best beer in the world.... bar non!!! (sic)

89

,

11/03/2007 18:03:31
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90

right of center,

no comma after my name either 11/03/2007 18:20:40

85. Oliver F, UK

If she was it was done by trolls and the moderators will take care of it. They must not work on the weekends as this entire site is full of non supervised children today.

91

Finnking,

Without a Dot in Finland not finDland 11/03/2007 18:26:28

74. Media 1

Priceless. Political correctness by-pass operation. I don't agree with a single word of it but I do like clear expression. Sincerely.

92

Finnking,

Without a Dot in Finland not finDland 11/03/2007 18:41:33

1. Bill, Dunblane

You were right and you were wrong. ;-)

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11/03/2007 18:50:15
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Finnking,

Dotless in Finland 11/03/2007 19:08:05

94. Bikewoman

There are troll free zones.

I'm sure TSW is off travelling again. She seems to travel a lot and has been to Oulu, of all places!

You seen Media 1 anywhere?

95

Fremont CA,

USA 11/03/2007 19:17:28

How many more millions of people must die in wars started over one people's religious beliefs??

How is it that we can all chuckle over the "old" religions as quaint? ALL religions have been based on people's fear of the unkown. We used to have Gods to explain why the sun rises and sets, crops grow etc. Organized religion for many centuries has been nothing more than a means for a group in power to subjugate the masses through guilt, fear and intimidation of "hell". Has anyone ever actually read the entire book? You can make the Bible and it's God support ANY cause you want! And God is anything from a wrathful God of Vengence and Fire to benevolent and loving. Guess He has bad days too.

While I'd love to believe that we can all go to a shining place where all is perfect and the toils of life are rewarded, truth is we're animals with opposable thumbs who have looked to the night sky with fear since the dawn of time and hoped for something more at the end.

The Book is filled with passages that make slavery acceptable and every Church has long been against it. Put ONE passage in there about man lying down with man and that's all the Right needs to read to justify yet more hate and fear. I'm straight but I also don't fear that the Big Bad Homosexual is going to break into my home and "convert" me. All hate is fear!

96

Finnking,

Dotless in Finland 11/03/2007 19:34:44

96. Fremont CA

"All hate is fear!"

Too true.

97

Fran,

Georgia , USA 11/03/2007 20:31:21

Some of the religious right are intolerant .Most of the liberal left is intolerant of the religious right .
Respect is a two way street .Most
of my neighbors are Christians.
None of them own slaves ,sell their daughters or cane their children.
Also none of them advocate strapping suicide bombs on their
children or chopping off heads of those who have another religion .
If a man wants to be an atheist ,
that is his business and none of mine . Likewise , if I want to have faith in a creator and observe
certain rules of conduct , that is my business .
The young people meetng in San Francisco are doing no harm to anyone . I can not think why they are being attacked for holding a convention there .

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11/03/2007 21:11:04
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Djookers,

In the hoose 11/03/2007 21:13:21

#98 Fran

You are absolutely correct in everything you say. I think the difference comes when you look at the end game of both the groups. Gays at most want to be able to live there lives as equals to everyone else without discrimination, whereas many of those leading the religious right want there beliefs enshrined in law and thereby enforced on everyone. This scares a lot of reasonable people.

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11/03/2007 21:31:28
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11/03/2007 21:45:59
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11/03/2007 21:48:33
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Scaramouche,

11/03/2007 21:48:56

The day all religion and all the various bigotries which gather under its umbrella disappears from this planet, will be the best day the world has ever seen.

Pity I won't be here to see it. Well, not in this body anyway.

I'm coming back when we harness eternal good-looking youth and near-immortality! :D

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11/03/2007 21:50:03
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11/03/2007 21:59:43
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11/03/2007 22:11:53
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Thatcher in the Rye,

11/03/2007 22:21:19

Hold the phone! I'll be back with some popcorn, this should be good!

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Thatcher in the Rye,

11/03/2007 22:28:14

#106

One of the better quotes from the website you advocate above.

"SODOMITES ARE PROUD OF THEIR SIN ("GAY PRIDE"), AND IN THAT PRIDEFUL STATE THEY CANNOT REPENT - YOU CANNOT REPENT OF SOMETHING YOU'RE PROUD OF"

I take you are not into religion?

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11/03/2007 22:42:52
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citizen smith,

Midlothian 11/03/2007 22:48:31

see taliban mark 50th birthday, loads of removed posts ???

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11/03/2007 22:52:19
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11/03/2007 23:00:45
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11/03/2007 23:31:08
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Pilrig,

Livingston 11/03/2007 23:37:54

120 - Ask Mrs Slocome !

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11/03/2007 23:41:18
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11/03/2007 23:41:56
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DSA,

USA 12/03/2007 00:54:54

# 63 Right of Center

What a crock for you to say Bush speaks for all Americans.

He sure does not speak for the majority of us. What a crock. I am damned if I would let a war criminal speak for me. Bush is a disgrace to this country. Nothing but contempt for the constitution and losing respect for usd all around the world so for goodness sake - please do not spout garbage like that and try to tell people in other countries that Bush speaks for all of us....

BTW - Regarding the topic of the article - Jesus has to be shaking his head in deep disapointment at those so called christians who espouse hatred of other people. Talk about judgemental!

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12/03/2007 01:05:02
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Esther,

12/03/2007 01:12:14

#57, Sinkhole ... SF you're joking .... I live in this area now, and have done so for years .... The alternate life style have not only upgraded neightbourhood but made them safer for all ... SF has never been a sink hole ever ....

On the otherhand last night's news about crime in the USA showed Orlando murder rate up 152% now that is what I call a sink hole, gotta be in your neck of the woods, or is that hoods.

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Esther,

12/03/2007 01:31:48

#96 too true

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12/03/2007 01:45:26
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12/03/2007 02:02:29
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Xtremist,

Colonial beach 12/03/2007 02:31:14

Whoever wrote this is a very misinformed person who get another side of the story. No1 who goes to this event is even that focused on the gays of san fran. people go 2 battlecry to experience awesome times or worship, fellowship, and equip themselves with tools so that they can go and save themselves and others from this horrible environment that we are living in today that is GAY obsessed (proven by this article) and obsessed with other trivial matters like celebrities and their body parts.

Also, any1 who hasnt read comment 31, do so

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12/03/2007 02:32:39
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12/03/2007 02:33:25
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Steve Real,

USA 12/03/2007 04:33:48

"And when you pray,
do not be like the phonies,

Who love to stand in the arenas
and the rock concerts to pray,
So as to be seen by humanity.

And amen,
I am telling you,
They have received their recompense.

You however ,
when you pray,
ENTER YOUR HOME AND
SHUT THE DOOR.

And pray to your Father unseen,
And your Father
who sees the unseen,
will repay you openly."

Jesus of Nazareth

139

Yane,

up a gum tree 12/03/2007 09:02:19

#140 What Jesus of Nazareth? Not Jesus Christ? Using words like "phonies" & refering to rock concerts? Did he yell too? Must be strange translation.

140

Djookers,

In the hoose 12/03/2007 12:39:48

To all the anti gay posters on the board

Alan Turing was the father of modern computing, without him none of us would be here right now posting on these boards. He was a mathamatical genius who did top secret defence work throughout the second world war and was the man who cracked the german enigma code. He probably did more to shorten the war and save livesthan any other individual during the conflict.

He was also gay.

After the war a paranoid and bigoted british government, fearful that he could be blackmailed by the russians revoked his clearance to continue his top secret work on computers. This disgusting treatment of one of the the greatest scientists who ever lived, caused him to take his own life.

Any anti gay posters on this board should stop using their computers right now, none of you are worthy of using this great mans invention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_turing

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12/03/2007 13:08:28
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Allan(handofgod137),

12/03/2007 14:18:43

Nice to see so many leftists showing their intolerance of other peoples right to free speech.

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12/03/2007 14:19:40
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12/03/2007 14:28:27
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12/03/2007 15:59:46
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Brew Master,

12/03/2007 21:03:22

I guess by the number of posts that have been removed that are anything but pro gay that libs are just as intolerant of free speech than any conservative. I'm not surprised, just wanted to make the point.

These non-issues are so tiring considering all the real suffering and problems that humanity is confronted with in this new century.

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12/03/2007 21:12:30
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Djookers,

In the hoose 12/03/2007 21:28:29

#149 Brewmaster

Bikewoman just beat me to it. Most if not all of the deleted posts were Bikewoman's, who spent most of yesterday trying to defend herself from some of the most disgusting attacks I seen the right wing trolls who inhabit these threads launch. If you, as someone who is right wing wish to associate yourself with these people, (and by not ever condemning them, you are) thats fine by me, but you lower yourself to there level if you do.

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12/03/2007 21:35:40
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12/03/2007 21:35:46
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Bikewoman,

12/03/2007 21:37:53

#148 Djookers

Thanks for the post. You restored my faith in humanity. :)

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12/03/2007 21:49:51
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Brew Master,

12/03/2007 22:06:49

153 Whoa there, who are you calling right wing? All the posts that were left were well..."left." Might be that I jumped to a conclusion as I can't read what was posted, but it seems that some anti-homosexual posts couldn't have been all that bad. At least not so bad as to be unable to express their views. Freedom of speech is important even if I don't agree with it.

How can not condemning people make me complicit in their idiocy? I don't acknowledge 90% of the posts I read on these threads. Whether I agree with them or not I have no wish to spam these threads with my opinions. I generally just state how I feel, and if someone questions my post I'll elaborate.

Honestly, I didn't read what was going on yesterday, but it seems that very few posts were left and they expressed only one side of the issue.

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12/03/2007 22:10:01
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Ewan's blurb,

12/03/2007 22:12:37

Mostly what I see in the posts is pro homo stuff so I don't know why they are bitchin. Looks like several of the comments that asked why can't the gays be more tolerant of normal people have been removed by the gays.

157

Brew Master,

12/03/2007 22:15:14

Djookers read the terms and conditions most of the threads aren't moderated at all. It's an automated system that simply takes posts off anytime someone complains. There is a process by which a post can be reinstated, but by the time the appeals process is through there is little point. Scotman forums are very open to abuse.

158

Ewan's blurb,

12/03/2007 22:19:05

right of center, I see (4)

djookers, I see (9)

I would not call your counting very well. Especially saying he had "way" more than you....

159

Ewan's blurb,

12/03/2007 22:20:49

By the looks of it, the gays have crushed free speech on this post and they should all feel poorly about it.

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12/03/2007 22:23:44
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Quaker Mama,

12/03/2007 22:32:40

164. Bikewoman

You are a self admitted lesbian, obviously a militant one by the many other post I've read for the past few days so I would naturally assume you would be removing posts you do not agree with. It's just like something Rosie O'Donnel would do.

162

Djookers,

In the hoose 12/03/2007 22:42:36

#158 Brewmaster

Re-read your original post and I take "I'm not surprised" in relation to the posts that were left/removed as a comment directed at the left. If I'm wrong then I misread you and apologise.
That said all of these
#16, 26, 31, 37, 46, 49, 52,53, 54, 56, 58, 63, 64, 70, 73, 98, 111, 112, 128, 136, 144 are right wing posters.
In the only two on topic posts I managed to get in under the barrage of trolls, one was mostly agreeing with the a pro religous poster except for the final conclusion, which was an obsevation on the fact that the religeous right appear to want to have there views enshrined in law, which would inhibit freedom, and not just of speech, and it not put in an offensive way.
In the other, which WAS directed at the anti gay posters on the thread I was pointing out that there abilty to post at all was down to the genius of a gay man, Alan Turing, and that if they were that anti gay maybe they should refrain from using the machine he invented. Neither was vehmently anti religion or nasty.
It may be that you do not want to have trolls attacking you, I cant blame you for that, and prefer to stay out of the way, but when the boards go to the dogs there will be nowhere left to post.

163

Djookers,

In the hoose 12/03/2007 22:48:17

#158 Brewmaster

Add #165 to that list, have to say I have never seen Quaker Mama before, she certainly was not here yesterday so has no idea what happened but she puts her bigotry on her sleve and wades straight in attacking Bikewoman.

Tolerance anyone???????????????????????????????

164

Djookers,

In the hoose 12/03/2007 22:49:15

#167 should be bigotry on her sleeve.

165

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12/03/2007 22:54:10
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12/03/2007 22:58:09
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Bikewoman,

12/03/2007 23:09:31

#170 Rosie's Op

You don't seem to understand the difference between objecting to a political or, in this case, religious stance and making an ad hominem attack on an individual.

168

Bikewoman,

12/03/2007 23:14:35

The Scottsman needs to get its act together and link ONE user id to ONE live email address to prevent this constant proliferation of troll identities stirring the pot. They also really need to take the decision to remove posts out of the hands of the users. They have created a troll's playground with their lack of common sense in setting up the forums.

169

Djookers,

In the hoose 12/03/2007 23:44:41

#162 Ewans blurb

I count 6 by under my name up to when I posted the figures, that includes #20 which has a comma after the name and is in fact a troll. So that makes 5, 3 more were me replys to trolls to try and get rid of them, as such they were not anti anything except troll. That leaves the to posts on topic compared to ROC's 4.
Try doing some reading Ewan, you learn more that way.

170

Djookers,

In the hoose 12/03/2007 23:50:16

#171 Horrible Cankers

Aye yer right there, the posting on this thread will close in about 5 minutes, then this new batch will have to move on to another thread, no doubt we will see them all there

171

Bikewoman,

12/03/2007 23:57:09

#174 Djookers

I don't know why anyone should have to "apologize" by justifying the number of posts anyway. Some people are active participants in a discussion. Some topics are more interesting to one person than another. I count at least 53 different people posting on this thread. The people who wanted to weigh in did so, those who were engaged discussed at greater length. That is everyone's right.

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13/03/2007 00:25:51
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Brew Master,

13/03/2007 00:47:12

Djookers and Bikerwoman I never wanted an apology, and I've been just as disgusted by these boards lately as you are. Scotsman should really fix these problems.

My politics are complex at best. Conservative on many issues Liberal on many others. Take homosexuality for instance. They aren't hurting anyone, so what's the point of trying to stop them. Legislating morality is just stupid. I wonder at the motives behind the adults financing the trip as well... Who would approve of their children being sent on a trip to alienate an entire segment of the population?

174

Brew Master,

Oceania 13/03/2007 00:59:49

They kind of sound like the Youth League from Orwell's 1984.


 

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