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Macedonia 1 - 0 Scotland: Scotland get caught cold in Skopje heat

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Published Date: 07 September 2008
IN A grim match, in a grim stadium, in a grim city, the grimmest sight of all was the scene at the end when the Scots dragged themselves off the park, clearly jaded, clearly distraught, slowly coming to terms with a World Cup qualifying campaign already in tatters at this painfully early stage.
George Burley's team never recovered from an abject opening half, a period that saw them concede inside five minutes and then play with no semblance of order thereafter. At the break it was only a wonder that they were not already out of it. Macedonia were not electrifying but they made enough of the chances that came their way. In the end, just one was enough.

The irony was that Scotland finished the game strongly, infinitely stronger than the Macedonians, who dropped deeper and deeper and ran the risk of a late sucker punch. In the heat, Scotland's relentless pressing, especially in the last 10 minutes, was impressive but so much damage had been done already by that point. Perhaps fatal damage as far as qualifying goes.

It was a sorry spectacle, really, in a sad excuse for a stadium on a day of boiling temperatures. Agreeing to play Macedonia away on the opening day of qualifying will continue to be the subject of heated debate. Even when it was announced, the policy of beginning with two away matches looked foolhardy; now it looks plain suicidal.

Dear me, it was a tough afternoon, with the most woeful beginning for Scotland, a throwback to the sleepy, lacklustre days the nation had hoped they'd left behind. In the fifth minute, a free-kick, awarded a little unjustly against Stephen McManus, but still a distance from Craig Gordon's net. If the Scots were alive they'd have dealt with the situation, they'd have formed their wall with some degree of ballast, they'd have reacted to the loose ball with more awareness, they'd have avoided an eminently avoidable goal.

As it was, the free-kick was tapped to Goce Sedloski, the veteran defender with 87 caps to his name, and he had a crack. It wasn't what you would call a howitzer, far from it. But it worked its way past Gordon's wall all the same and had the goalkeeper at full stretch. He got a finger-tip to it and pushed it on to his right-hand post. Now it was up to his teammates to finish the job. They failed dismally. The ball bounced off the woodwork and there was Ilco Naumoski to slide it home.

The unimaginable nightmare had therefore come true. Scotland now had to chase the game in the searing heat, a scenario so depressing at the outset that it was barely worth thinking about. And worse again was the fact that Scotland didn't look in any condition to chase anything, bar the free-running Macedonians that constantly threatened to score a second and truly deliver the knockout blow. The Scots had problems all over the place but, principally, out wide where the combinations of Graham Alexander and Scott Brown on the right and Gary Naysmith and Barry Robson on the left were always vulnerable to attack.

Macedonia found gaps there, lots of them. Had they a bit more quality they'd have exploited them and this thing would have been over by the break. Shell-shocked and disorganised, Scotland afforded their hosts all the time and space and chances to get the job finished nice and early. In reply, the visitors offered nothing but speculative pots from distance and an increasingly haggard demeanour.

There were exceptions to the Scottish malaise. Gary Caldwell was switched-on and needed to be. In the 24th minute, Goran Pandev, the Lazio striker at whose altar the locals worship, took Robert Petrov's cross from the left first time and smashed in a convincing-looking volley, only stopped in its tracks after Caldwell put his body in the way of it. That wouldn't be the last timely intervention the Celtic defender was to make.

Still we waited for something from Scotland. At last, on the half hour, James McFadden, an isolated figure up until then, finally got the ball at his feet. He was inside the Macedonian penalty area, skipping right to left, trying to rid himself of the giants in red tracking his every move. He had a cut but one of the big beasts, the excellent Igor Mitreski, charged it down. That was Scotland's chance. One fleeting moment of hope and then it was back to the established rhythm. Lots of Macedonian pressure and some frightening moments for Burley's team.

A few minutes after McFadden's near-miss, the home support screamed for a penalty, Goran Maznov going down under a challenge from Gordon. Scotland survived that one and the one after, a charging run on goal from Maznov, snuffed out quite brilliantly by Caldwell just as the striker was to about lash in his shot. Even then, the moment did not pass until Pandev made a frightful hash of burying the breaking ball.

Doubtless Burley's been in some tight spots at the halfway point in games in the past. Here was another, maybe the biggest of all. Lose this and was there any way back in the group, any hope? He had some fast talking to do and for a little while it looked like it had some kind of impact. Scotland came out a little brighter than before, a Robson corner caused Macedonia problems, a Brown shot forced a save out of Petar Milosevski, a sweet Naysmith cross created a chance for Darren Fletcher, but he blew it.

But all the while there was the threat of a second for Macedonia, a killer punch, a reminder coming in the shape of a drive just short of the hour-mark from Velice Sumulikoski that Gordon did superbly to push out for a corner and a second, a massive scare, not long after when Naumoski swivelled close to the six-yard box and thumped a shot straight at the Scotland goalkeeper. A few feet either side of Gordon and it was a goal. As it was, Gordon beat it out.

As the half wore on, Burley threw on Kris Commons and Shaun Maloney and Kris Boyd. Commons had some bright spots, Maloney forced a flying save out of Milosevski, McFadden went down in the box and screamed for a penalty and got booked for his protest. It was seat-of-the-pants stuff now. Brave but ultimately futile. Scotland were beaten and the harsh truth is that they deserved to be. Long road back now for them. Long road indeed.

Click here to view highlights of yesterday's World Cup qualifying matches

Please note that due to broadcasting restrictions, the Macedonia Vs. Scotland match is only viewable to users outside of the UK.


Naumoski goal (4 mins)

Goran Maznov wins a dubious free-kick 25 yards out after the referee adjudges Stephen McManus to have fouled him. Craig Gordon saves brilliantly, touching Goce Sedloski's free-kick onto the post, but cannot prevent Ilco Naumoski netting the rebound.


Scotland chance (54 mins)

Darren Fletcher (above) almost brings Scotland level, but he just fails to get on the end of a cross from Gary Naysmith. Kenny Miller is unable to convert the loose ball from a tight angle.

Penalty claim denied (71 mins)

Kenny Miller goes down in the box and appeals to the referee. The ball breaks to James McFadden and he is brought down by the keeper but again the claim is waved away. McFadden is booked for protesting.



OVENING SALVOS

How Scotland fared in the first matches of previous World Cup qualifying campaigns. During the 1978 qualifiers they lost the opener to Czechoslovakia and still made it to Argentina

2006 WORLD CUP

Scotland 0, Slovenia 0. Didn't qualify

2002 WORLD CUP

Latvia 0, Scotland 1. Didn't qualify


1998 WORLD CUP

Austria 0, Scotland 0. Qualified

1994 WORLD CUP

Switzerland 3, Scotland 1. Didn't qualify

1990 WORLD CUP

Norway 1, Scotland 2. Qualified

1986 WORLD CUP

Scotland 3, Iceland 0. Qualified

1982 WORLD CUP

Sweden 0, Scotland 1. Qualified

1978 WORLD CUP

Czechoslovakia 2, Scotland 0. Qualified

1974 WORLD CUP

Denmark 1, Scotland 4. Qualified






The full article contains 1383 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 07 September 2008 12:58 AM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Scotland's football team
 
1

,

07/09/2008 00:12:25
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2

VoteoutLibLabConTraitors,

New Cumnock 07/09/2008 00:15:39
Poor performance right enough.
Good report of the game from Tom English.
I'm not sure if Weir or Ferguson would have made much difference.
3

,

07/09/2008 00:18:43
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4

VoteoutLibLabConTraitors,

New Cumnock 07/09/2008 00:33:51
# 5 I agree that Weir is good but he's getting to the end of his career now so he might not make South Africa. Ferguson is just a poser and Thomson has only just come into the Scotland set up so I doubt if these three players would have won us the game or given us hope for the next games.
5

,

07/09/2008 00:39:13
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6

KingKenny,

07/09/2008 00:40:38
Some Scotland Players no deserve Internatinal place. Scotland need change someone and develop. Many players out This game. but if want play World cup..This game need win.

Macedonia will play Netherlands. If they not beat away team..and Scotland again recieve lost Iceland game.. will difficult Qualifying

7

Celtic Forever,

No-one likes them, they don't care 07/09/2008 00:46:59
Is this a "retards are us" forum today. Pundit, you make king kenny look sane.
8

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07/09/2008 00:49:12
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9

,

07/09/2008 00:51:48
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10

,

07/09/2008 01:00:57
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11

,

07/09/2008 01:02:10
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12

Helter Skelter,

07/09/2008 01:06:41
Well that's that then....we were in the world cup for all of 90 minutes this time 'roon.

There is room for improvement....we could've goat oursels 4 behind before half time an' been oot in 45.

Ah mean , thet's rediculous...ah blame the parents so an' ah dae.
13

VoteoutLibLabConTraitors,

New Cumnock 07/09/2008 01:22:59
# 7 the pundit
Weir is only picked because he plays for the old firm. Not because he's International class. Barry Robson was ignored while scoring regularly at Dundee United. He moved to Celtic and was suddenly ' International Class ' and picked for the national team. He's actually a worse player now as he can't command a regular first team place yet he is picked for the National team because he plays for Celtic. Barking mad Scottish football.
14

Boswall,

07/09/2008 01:42:12
Stuff football - clearly we'll never qualify/win the FIFA WC.

The future of Scottish sport is Tennis, Cycling and Elephant Polo.
15

VoteoutLibLabConTraitors,

07/09/2008 01:42:38
# 23 the pundit
Weir would still have got picked for Scotland while at Everton because of his good relationship with Walter Smith.
A lot of players at the old firm are definitely not good enough for Scotland. They might have been initially but sitting on the bench for years ( Riordan for example - 13 games in 2yrs) must have killed their spirit and enthusiam for the game.
16

Canadian Jambo,

07/09/2008 02:19:18
What an excellent article by Mr English-and what a load of drivel from posters complete with (in some cases,) appalling English spelling and grammar.
This is a frightenly poor performance by Scotland. A loss to Iceland and we are out of it. Let's have some constructive and thoughtful criticism so that the team can do better the next time.
They have to!
17

JamboG,

Florida 07/09/2008 02:22:16
A pathetic performance. Players and managers should be ashamed of themselves. Saint George's 10 wins in a row for Hearts seems a very long time ago...his record for Scotland so far is comparable with the great Berti...they seem to have no motivation...except maybe Fletcher and Gordon..and they actually play for proper clubs in a proper league!

Yeah, yeah...there are no easy games in international football...what tosh.
18

Surefire,

07/09/2008 02:23:17
thepundit....you should be re-named thrush (work it out)you bring nothing but nonsense to these comments pages..scotland should be ashamed of their performance yesterday..i have no idea why miller gets a game and why he lasted on the field so long..a player who can run all day does not merit a place at international level imo..brown looked better when he moved into a central role and commins and mahoney looked dangerous on the flanks...but by then they were chasing the game...saving grace would have been penalty which should/could have been given but not sure if we deserved anything in the end....and thrush..no im not a celtic fan.
19

mybestmatesa,

upsh*tcreek 07/09/2008 02:25:44
What is the point in me staying in JHB now? What a miserable shower of sh*t we have become. I thought you could beat Macedonia (where exactly is that now?) by setting fire to a wooden horse or something.














20

FTH22inarow,

07/09/2008 02:48:07
I don't support Scotland because the SFA are the GFA but how can you critisize players for doing their best in 104 degrees of heat, Gordon Smith and his cronies are to blame for this debacle
21

FTH22inarow,

07/09/2008 02:58:01
34 not to inbreds like your goodself, jeeze i need to get a life what am i doing on here at this time!
22

Daillyman,

07/09/2008 02:58:07
33

If management felt the heat was going to be major concern then we should have started the match with a tight 4-5-1 formation away from home.

We should have started the 2 wide men in midfield who finished the match along with 3 central midfield players.

First half we were very poor, and the midfield except for Robson were anonymous.

The second half a wee bit better but caused no danger to the Macedonians in the final third.

Burley has persisted with his choice of strikers for to long and new blood is needed.

We keep hearing the Fletchers and McCormacks dont have the experience to play at this level.

Well how does one get the experience if you are never given a shot.

I still think we have a chance to finish 2nd in this group but the manager and his help have got to throw the dice and change things up front.
23

Surefire,

07/09/2008 02:58:19
#32...that post just proves my point...thank you thrush
24

Daillyman,

07/09/2008 03:23:32
Note to George Burley.

18 year old scores for Wales giving them the 3 points.

See George some times it pays to take a chance on inexperienced young players.

Iceland drew with Norway 1-1, good result with us dropping 3 points.
25

Daillyman,

07/09/2008 03:29:47
39

it was 2-2 my mistake
26

WellFan,

US 07/09/2008 03:31:06
Any international team playing Kenny Miller as their attacking threat is going to struggle. 2 goals in 2 years? The opposition must think we're having a laugh.
27

Daillyman,

07/09/2008 03:33:28
40 thepundit

Holland will walk this group.

Our goal has to be play for 2nd spot and advance to the playoff.
28

Stoobing,

London 07/09/2008 03:41:45
thepundit? What? Responding to that drivel is like responding to Rain Man's first indiscretions on a keyboard. Accept 'his' comments as such and ignore.

Georgia 2 Scotland 1. So there we were and there we are. Thanks George for realising that Miller + Faddy against large eastern European bruisers does not = victory. Disgraceful team selection, pointless effort. Ah well, onto 2012. Joke.

Hartley, punctured. Absolutely hopeless. Brown on right midfield? Wonderful. Many thanks George.
29

Daillyman,

07/09/2008 03:43:35
40

Aussies beat Holland 2-1
30

Surefire,

07/09/2008 03:44:47
so tell me pundit...how does myself attending premiership football most weeks compare to "watch diddy teams week in week out while old firm fans watch quality football (mainly in blue)"compare. yeh, pure quality. have you ever been to Ibrox.
31

Daillyman,

07/09/2008 03:48:03
45 Pundit

The last time we met Holland we got them p!ssed off in Glasgow and then they took 6 off us over there.
32

Surefire,

07/09/2008 03:55:48
i think we can write 6 points off against holland
33

gordo999,

Vanvouver, Canada 07/09/2008 03:56:26
Attention all you who wanted Bertie Vogts run out of town. We've had three Scottish managers since Vogts and we get progressively worse. The latest patterns himself after Bobbie Robson, a dour, archaic, predictable, boring manager if there ever was one. He continues to play Kenny Miller, a pure runner in the style of Durie and Dickov, who Vogts correctly told he can't miss sitters at the international level.

That was obvious four years ago, yet here we are with the same old nonsense. To those of you who could not understand what Vogts was doing, you haven't got a clue about football.
34

Scythia,

07/09/2008 05:04:52
Getting a sense of "been here before". If we are going qualify they need to be winning ties such as this.
35

Fanling,

Hong Kong 07/09/2008 05:12:30
the pundit #1, #7, #38

Apart from your predictably distasteful Rangers bias, what kind of school taught you to say "would of"? "Would have" is the correct form as every educated Scots schoolchild knows. "Would of" is a characteristic piece of ignorance of the English language commonly found south of the border.

36

Surefire,

07/09/2008 05:40:48
will everyone please ignore pundit....as mentioned earlier IT offers NOTHING.
37

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 06:55:09
Celtic are to blame for yesterdays embarrassing defeat.

I have never seen a team containing so many misfits.

McManus - leg breaker

Caldwell - Mary Shellys Frankenstein

Brown - Headless Chicken

Hartley - Gypsy

Robson - Vera Duckworth

Maloney - Not good enough for Villa

Any team with these players is doomed to failure.
38

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 06:58:16
its amazing really. One game played and we are out of the world cup already.
39

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 07:13:00
#69 not that I can remember.

Our section has fewer games than the other sections so losing 1 game is catastrophic.

Still at least we have the best supporters in the world. When the chips are down they can always sing Doe-a-Deer.
40

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 07:17:37
We should draft in Mark Wilson for Wednesday night.

He is, after all the only remaining Scottish Celtic player that is not getting a game in the national team.
41

Down with everything,

07/09/2008 07:23:30

I fail to see where the sudden mood of doom and gloom has come from.

Its as if many pundits and fans were waiting for a defeat to immediately jump on Burley.

He had set his players a target of 4 points from these games and i would imagine thought that macedonia would be the single point.

So as it stands today we are one point behind target.

All you doom and gloomers get a fecking life and get behind your team.

Regardless of where they play their league football.

Any arguments about quality and respective teams should look at Darren Fletcher, plays for Europe's best team and has never impressed me in the dark blue.

I do agree with posts which make reference to Scotland selection, for example Rangers target Berra would be first on the Scotland team sheet had Rangers actually signed him during the close season, but then all fans know the situation with regard to selection.


But at the end of the day, i will still get vastly over optimistic when following my country and will cheer every player who pulls on the jersey, even if 11 of them were hibbies!!.

Mon Scotland, get it up the Icelanders!!!!!


42

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 07:25:14
#72 only the best second placed teams go into a play off.

So I think we can forget that.
43

LEAL,

07/09/2008 07:27:07
72 bring them on
I think the best 8 runners up out of 9 groups get a go.Its still all to play for here.We must go forward against Iceland and give them a threshing.Have confidence in our world class goalie to deal with anything that comes his way,and go forward to create a dozen good chances that will bring us some/many goals.Iceland are a very weak team which most first division sides would hammer home and away.If Burley says it is going to be tough,it would be like Gordon Ramsay saying its tough to boil an egg.
44

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 07:29:46
#74 when we get humped on wednesday should i still be optimistic?

I watched Norway v Iceland last night. Iceland were the better team and indeed they hit the post in the last minute so could easily have won it.
45

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 07:33:21
#76 "Iceland are a very weak team".

What do you base that on?

I watched them last night and they were superb,

You are in for a shock on Wednesday night.
46

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 07:35:32
#79 normally they discount the results against the diddy teams in the bigger sections.
47

Down with everything,

07/09/2008 07:42:22
#77 BTO

How can he be 4 points behind target now???? the team have only played one game you muppet

48

Down with everything,

07/09/2008 07:48:33

No you fudddd

if we lose to Iceland then yes, but we haven't even played them, so to say that we are at this stage 4 points behind target is misleading and proves that doom and gloom seems to be the order of the day.

By your logic we are in the same position as prior to yesterday's game.

but as we could only have a maximum of three points at this stage, your logic is flawed (a bit like your personality)
49

Mike Masterton,

07/09/2008 08:13:53
58 is right,get rid of Burley.
Even before the team was announced, so many called off
same old story.We couldn't win an argument !
50

Down with everything,

07/09/2008 08:21:35

How has FIFA got anything to do with your flawed logic.

We have no points out of a possible three, so the most we can be is three points behind target.

Why must everything be spelled out for you hard of thinking (we errra) people????

This has nothing to do with either FIFA or Hearts, or for that matter Rangers, so why are you here???

You lot are very vocal in your non-support of our country and desire to be cheering on England under a Britain shirt.

51

,

07/09/2008 08:30:03
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52

WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 08:30:58
Hope everyone got at least 2 to 1 yesterday or if you shopped around like I did, a lovely 9 to 4 was to be had on Macedonia.
As I said yesterday morning, a cast iron certainty.
Burley couldn't pick his nose and as someone pointed out, with all those celtic losers in the team, Scotland didn't stand a chance.
53

John H,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 08:44:16
What a disgraceful performance it was. No excuses can cover it up.
Shocking selection fullbacks as useless as broken wing mirrors, central defenders who couldn't stop a bus and as for the rest words can't describe how bad.
Burley get a grip or ship out you fake.
54

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 08:51:26
3 money making opportunities for you all.

1)Scotland to get humped by Iceland. With so many Celtic diddys in the team its a foregone conclusion.

2)rangers to win the league. The celtic diddy men are so poor that even if Ken Dodd was their manager, they would be lucky to get second place.

3)celtic to come bottom of their champions league group and thus heaping more embarrassment on Ireland.

In fact I think I will put the treble on. Next year this time I will be posting from the Bahamas.
55

Ursus arctos horribilis,

07/09/2008 08:52:03
Prediction

Fed-up with the international football-yawn- and especially the national embarrassment that is the Scotland national team (and personally I find the Tartan Army cringe-worthy).

Our footballers are poor-the big two have some small success sometimes but rely on foreign imports -however this can be used to put an end to these stupid calls for independence once and for all.

We WILL be part of team GB at the next Olympics.
Thereafter no more Scotland team -sob sob-but the upside for the majority of football fans is that Rangers and Celtic will be allowed into the Premiership.

If you ask people in Scotland would you rather have the OF in the EPL or Independence-a big majority for the former.


Panem et circenses-as the Roman used to say- maybe the PM has already cottoned on to this!
56

Ursus arctos horribilis,

07/09/2008 08:55:21
#2 very apt that you should follow that shower-how are the peg-sales coming along or are you diversified into The Big Issue ?

Whereabouts in Macedonia is Coatbrig byraway?
57

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 09:01:01
I am not sure if this is true but I was told last night down the pub that "Fortress Parkhead" is erstwhile to be known as "Knotty Ash".

The rebel song is being replaced by "We are the Diddy Men".

Celtic tickling sticks will be available from all Celtic shops from Monday.
58

WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

uk 07/09/2008 09:09:52
I didn't think he could do it but strachan has.
I knew he'd produce a few shockers in the transfer market as usual but he has really surpassed himself this time.
First up it's the superstar Paddy for ten-bob. Nice one for starters Gordy.
Next up, the super Greek, Samarse, no shock there.
Then the trump card, nick Loovens from Rangers (aye right) and then don't play him!!
Caldweel and McAnus keep their places!!
And that's that.
No wonder celtic fans hate the guy.
He's a tube.
59

scottish person,

paisley 07/09/2008 09:14:33
OK, Scotland were soundly beaten but the only true Macedonian hero I seen on the park was the blundering buffoon of a ref. He caused the upset, more than the Macedonian team. Call it sour grapes if you like but, until this game enters the 21st century we are going to get stuffed by very ordinary teams for ever.
60

,

07/09/2008 09:21:09
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61

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 09:41:12
All is not lost for wednesday. I hear that Burley has been on the phone to Kerry Katona to get the inside track on Iceland.
62

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 09:43:52
Speaking of which, who has the biggest Diddys?

The Scotland central defence or Kerry Katona?
63

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 09:54:27
#108 Never. 6 Celtic players is a recipe for disaster. Especially for fixtures away from home.

Look at Celtics embarrassing record away from home in the champions league. Must be the worst of any team that has entered the competition.

Its a real embarrassment for the Irish.
64

,

07/09/2008 09:57:17
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65

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 10:17:57
#110 why dont you plss off you idiot.
66

Jambo-ree,

07/09/2008 10:19:39
#104 C'mon give Burley a break. He's clearly missing Vlad's sound advice on who to select and when to make substitutions ;o)

Anyway, it's early days to be running up the white flag. Draw between Norway and Iceland was helpful and if we get a result in Iceland then we'll be right back in the mix.
67

,

07/09/2008 10:19:53
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68

LionheartFodithman,

07/09/2008 10:21:58
#110 Smeltic f&nny
Comical post.
Of the 4 or 5 punters who have commented on this story,the main contributor(bto)lives in Japan and pundiddy is English.
You are the only Scot on here.
69

LionheartFodithman,

07/09/2008 10:23:31
#112 JR
I thought we played much better in the second half,perhaps GB received the fax at half time ??
70

Friend in the North,

Stonehaven 07/09/2008 10:25:14
A sad performance by our national team. But why do we criticise players basically for playing for a club other than the one we support, I can't see the point. Yes we should have done better against Macedonia. As was said on the Radio yesterday, they all play for big clubs and big money and should have been capable and have had the desire to lift their game in the first half without waiting for an earbasshing at half time.
71

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07/09/2008 10:25:20
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72

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 10:26:30
#112 I admire your confidence. i hope its true but I cant see it somehow. Iceland nearly won 3 2 last night. They hit the post in the last minute.

Our central defence of statues will have to play a lot better than they did yesterday thats for sure.
73

LionheartFodithman,

07/09/2008 10:27:13
#117
They have been evicted from the Scotland wee diddy hoose.
74

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 07/09/2008 10:28:05
All the signs were there - the team flying out late, Burley becoming more incoherent by the minute, Celtic and Rangers players included in the squad irrespective of ability, Terry Butcher in the dugout ... it looks like another defeat on Wednesday.
75

,

07/09/2008 10:29:33
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76

WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 10:29:46
Anybody who watches Braveheart and believes it must be a dafty.
And why when someone is pretending to be foreign they type in a foreign accent??
It doesn't work like that #113!
The draw between Norway and Iceland is bad news if you ask me.
I can see Norway beating Scotland and if Iceland can get a draw away to them I'd have to encourage everyone to get a few quid on them on Wednesday.
If King Keeny Miller can score against Caldwell and McAnus what do you think Gudjhonsen will do to them??
77

LionheartFodithman,

07/09/2008 10:30:18
#120 Is that why GB has brought in Butcher and Pressley.2 big centre halfs to hold him up ???
Allegedly,of course.
78

Al Pacino,

07/09/2008 10:30:45
Absolutely pathetic. Do these people not want to go to the World Cup? We will lose in Iceland and our misery will be complete. At least Murray's playing well in New York.
79

Calum Crubag,

DĂąn Eideann 07/09/2008 10:30:48
Burley aint doing it. Sure, we had a Macedonian ref yesterday and the Macedonia players spent half the game lying down - what would their Olypmic sqaud do??! - but first half tactics were all wrong once we'd gone behind.

Miller was cac, again. Maloney should have replaced him at half time. Fletcher should have been hooked and Boyd on earlier.

Yeah, Burley's Hearts' run is fading fast.
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07/09/2008 10:31:53
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Friend in the North,

07/09/2008 10:41:03
#127 ..and motivation, confidence,belief in themselves and Saturday afternoon in a pub seeing what it means to us.

A bit of devilment would not go amiss either!
83

Westcoaster,

perth 07/09/2008 10:41:56
I blame the english for taking our oil,...and our freedom! Lads why can't we just face it we're not very good at football! instead of going on this 1 way trip to no-where every 2 years when we try and qualify for something.
84

big bucks,

Isle of Mull 07/09/2008 10:51:42
Poor performance by Scotland but not the end of the world.
I think maybe Stewart should have got a game a head of hartley or Brown as he seems to be playing well for Hearts.
You would have thought that Scotland got beat 5-0 with the reaction from the rearranging rioters on this thread.
It was all the big bad Celtic players fault,they just can't help themselves can they.
It was not Scotlands defence that let the side down it was there inability to create and score goals.
One rearranger even suggests that we lost because celtic players can't play away from home.Which Rangers players would replace them the same ones who lost to a lithuanian pub team.
85

arthurscross,

07/09/2008 10:52:08
With Weir and Ferguson having so many caps how come we haven't been able to qualify for the finals of any competition?
Is you qualification for success the fact that someone is an ex-rangers man? Like the following Lord Smudger:-
When will the SFA and/or Clubs stop defending so called fans who ignore the instructions given well in advance of games abroad and at away games that they are legally not allowed in the home sections of the ground.
Gordon Smith has again blundered, again, with the following extract from your article today;"SFA chief executive Gordon Smith pleaded in vain for fans to be let in. He said: "[b]I assured the police and the Macedonian FA that our fans would be well behaved [/b]but they told me it was not our fans they were worried about.

"It was the reaction of their own fans that was causing concern and they decided it was best not to let the Scotland fans in for safety reasons."

How can he in his position guarantee good behaviour with the fans history?
86

Survivor Of Riots,

07/09/2008 10:52:31
No Surprise - the usual Raging Ranger Syndrome Sufferers have crawled out from their maggot infested hovels to have a go at the Celtic players who played yesterday.

Macedonian Celtic Fan - do engage with these people. They have a serious illness.

Stay were you are and do not come to Scotland. You will be at risk from these diseased people.
87

LEAL,

07/09/2008 10:53:13
I think we should be realistic and say that only really good teams go to the finals,and at the moment we arent a really good team.Therefore,this is our world cup finals and we should be going out to play every match to win.
88

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 10:54:50
Gordon Smith had the cheek to put the Kybosh on a team GB at the 2012 Olympics as well. Does that idiot not realise that it is the only chance for some Scottish players to appear in the final stages of a major tournament?
89

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 10:57:42
#134 Arthurscross, excellent post.
90

Union Jack Jambo,

07/09/2008 10:58:52
Why no report on the Lithuania match.

Miko scored a screamer and a few Jambos were on show.
91

arthurscross,

07/09/2008 11:07:28
Same old rubbish from the bluenoses - bring them on, thepundit etc - How much do they blame the ex Rangers men who were assisting Burley i.e. Craig Brown, Tommy McLean, Terry Butcher all failures in management but survive because of their association with the SFA establishment team.
92

Weel Kent Jambo,

07/09/2008 11:10:07
So much negativity and most of it from RFC 'fans'. Delude themselves into thinking wee arra peepul and then transfer this to national team.

I tell you most sincerely folks that supporting Scotland is much much more like supporting Hearts than the OF. We can cope with bad moments the OF (especially the Bears) just can't. (Although you'd have thought after Kaunus they might had at least have started to learn to but inbred arrogance is hard to kill).

Never mind, when St Deek of Lochend is back in the team there'll be no holding us, eh Hobs?

c'mon Scotland...
93

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 11:13:59
Broadfoot and Berra should be picked ahead of the chuckle brothers for starters.

Novo and Commons should both play ahead of Hartley and Robson.

And Brown should be replaced by Stewart.

That would solve our main problems.
94

arthurscross,

07/09/2008 11:15:45
#138 Thank you. I am already on record on this forum last week of stating that George Burley will be a failure probably worse than Berti, who never really had a chance with the usual Scottish Media reprobates.
Burley in yesterdays exclusive newspaper article was as pitiful as Lord Smudger's BBC program on Friday night. We are certainly stuck with that man since there is no Fergus McCann to take him to task on all the boobs he has made to date.
95

arthurscross,

07/09/2008 11:18:18
#144 As usual the same type of one liners without substance or evidence?
96

Weel Kent Jambo,

07/09/2008 11:18:47
#146 He could always ask that nice Mr Romanov for advice - help is just a fax transmission away....
97

Shug,

07/09/2008 11:23:23
Not a Rangers or Celtic fan but no doubt that we need Ferguson back in the middle of the park. We have no one else (perhaps Stewart but I have never seen him play or his history/performances have been pretty erratic by all accounts) who can put their foot on the ball and spray around a few incisive passes.

That said, Macedonia are mince and we should have been able to beat them. On current form Iceland should win.
98

big bucks,

Isle of MULL 07/09/2008 11:23:57
#145 chuckle brothers i thought that was your mates pundit and bring them on.
99

Weel Kent Jambo,

07/09/2008 11:25:28
#149 If by incisive passes you mean square or backwards then Basketball Barry is indeed our man. Macedonia have had some reasonable results recently BTW.
100

Scotland Uber Unionists,

07/09/2008 11:30:50
That's what happens when you fill the team with players from Ambulance chasers FC.
101

anakin,

anywhere west of the hootsmon 07/09/2008 11:34:46
At this juncture Scot Brown is a great disappointment. Thomson has proven to be the better buy from Hibs. He is the master of the "nothing" ball, lacks vision and does not seem to contribute to any positive movement from such a crucial position in the national as well as his local team.

All the gash about his sister, which was a tradgedy, is not acceptable. He just does not cut the mustard at the highest level. Unless there is something I am missing I think he could well turn out to be a really big continual disappoint to his manager(s)
102

big bucks,

Isle of Mull 07/09/2008 11:36:48
#153 in Manchester rearranging rioters not only chased ambulances but fire engines,police cars,police men and anyone else who got in there way,Scotlands shame.
103

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 11:39:34
If Aids McTraitor never chose Ireland ahead of Scotland then we would have had 7 Celtc players in the Scotland team. A recipe for disaster.

We need to draft in Nacho Novo to the squad before its too late.
104

big bucks,

Isle of Mull 07/09/2008 11:45:46
156 Walter smith has aids since when? inever new he played for Ireland.
105

Jofrad,

07/09/2008 11:45:48
What we need is a Great Britain football team !
106

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 11:57:13
Quick browse through these comments reminds me, why outside of their own supporters, Rangers are the most hated team in Scotland. And if anyone should have any doubts about this, cast your mind back to the national celebration in May when they were humped at Pittodrie and Celtic won the league in Dundee where the good citizens there joined with Celtic in this national celebration.
Nobody wants you, nobody likes you.
Eventually you will disappear.
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07/09/2008 11:58:32
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Media 1,

cape town 07/09/2008 12:03:51
Whenever Scotland plays football, it is followed by glorious praise or vehement slander. That will probably never change, neither will our fortunes in this game that we all believe we should be better at.
Truth is Scotland is not a football nation. We are a nation who plays football, but the game is not part and parcel of who we are, hence why it is not compulsory at schools and why you will often see sign boards reading “no ball games” on many spare pieces of land.
We must also consider the negative implications of a league system that sees clubs playing each other four times in one season, when it makes much more sense to incorporate the first division into the Premier division. There are many excuses as to why this has not been done, but there is no valid reasoning.
Scotland will not qualify for 2010 because we are not prepared to do so. Our systems are out of date; our league structure is a shambles and our ability as a society to make football compulsory at school leaves much to be desired. The excuse that not all children enjoy sports is a poor one. Not all children enjoy geography and mathematics, but it needs to be done.
Burley is a good manager, the players at his disposal are good footballers, but they are not capable of qualifying for major tournaments because the structures are unsuitable for continued involvement at that level. Sure we may win a game or two now and again and put on some pretty impressive performances, but those little battles never lead to an overall winning of the war.
All we can do is look at the failure off the field, and acknowledge that under the circumstances, the team did ok.
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07/09/2008 12:04:11
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WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 12:04:22
Arthurscrass can you tell me when Craig Brown played for Rangers please?#141
Can all the dhims complaining about people complaining about the performances of the celtic players....tell us they played well the.
Go on.
Tell us how good Hartley is.
Tell us that Broon is worth 4+million.
Tell us that Caldwell and McAnus played like world-class defenders.
Tell us that Maloney was worth bringing back.
Then maybe we'll stop slagging them.
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07/09/2008 12:08:18
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07/09/2008 12:16:23
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big bucks,

Isle of Mull 07/09/2008 12:18:53
#167 Walters blue and white re arranging rioters
Tell us who you would replace the Celtic players with.
116

!,

UK 07/09/2008 12:19:53
Looks like scotland are back to the old days of berti vogts already. Shame (NOT) AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 12:22:34
#171 Injuries aside of course...
Ferguson for Broon.
Thomson for Hartley.
Broadfoot for Caldwell.
Weir for McAnus.
Burke for Maloney.


118

Pattie O'Dores,

In The Conservatory 07/09/2008 12:24:12
Once again, a Scotland match provides an opportunity for some people to vent their Old Firm prejudices. Personally, I put my club loyalties aside and totally support my country regardless of the constitution of the side. I seem to be in the minority which perhaps explains why we are and will remain a nation of under-achievers.
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WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 12:25:15
#172 If you're English, check last nights result.
If you're from N.I. ditto.
Welsh...ditto.
Ireland..ditto.
So don't try and slag Scotland.
Anyone know when was the last time that none of the home nations qualified for the World Cup?
I'll include the neutral Nazi sypathisers from Ireland in that....
120

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 12:25:25
Scotland doesn't want you, England doesn't want you, Europe doesn't want you. Parts of Northern Ireland might want you....
What will you do?
Sit and stew.
Like a psychopathic relation from whom the only release will be death.
You have no cure.
But death will be a welcome release.
For everybody.
When Rangers cease to exist we will all be happy.
121

big bucks,

Isle of mull 07/09/2008 12:25:38
I am talking about yesterdays game who would you pick.
George Burley cannot pick players who are injured.so who would you pick?
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WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 12:26:21
#174 More p'sh from an anti-OF fan.
What has that got to do with the standard of player born Scottish?
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Media 1,

cape town 07/09/2008 12:33:16
Al Mac

There is to much hatred in your outburst for anyone to take you seriously.
You cannot behave in the manner you behave and then expect other people to listen to your very own brand of hate.

This thread is about football and as I said above, Scotland are not prepared to qualify, hence we wont!

Keep it real, lose the hate and embrace other people!
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07/09/2008 12:34:08
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Pattie O'Dores,

07/09/2008 12:34:39
#178
You are incorrect in your first assertion. Also, I am able to assess national performances regardless of the players' club association unlike you who undoubtedly made your judgements as soon as the side was picked.
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WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 12:35:55
#177 Ah now that makes it tricky.
Broadfoots limited ability would be better than either Caldo or McAnus.
Boyd would have started.
Commons would have started.
Putting Berra in would maybe have been a risk but his form is better than those 2 and it was only Macedonia after all.
After watching the OF game anyone could see that the celtic players were vastly inferior and obviously must have been shattered after such a hiding.
Better to have "rested" them and played players on form.
127

Media 1,

cape town 07/09/2008 12:41:56
I didnt see any threads following the 2-4 game.
I was totally shocked by what I saw. Rangers blew them away without really getting started!

I suppose there is reason for some people to question Burley's inclusion of some Celtic players based on the obvious lack of ability we saw in the latest OF game.

However, as I said in #165, it not about players and managers, it is far more serious than that!
128

The Gorgie Boys Are In Town,

07/09/2008 12:44:13
No spark yesterday, very poor indeed against a very average team full of cheating wee gadgies. What annoyed me though was listening to the prat Booth and numptie co commentator constantly repeat themselves over and over again.
With Norway drawing with Iceland we have to win there on Wednesday and take maximum points at Hampden from all the fixtures to have any chance of qualification at least Macedonia are not a rival to qualify!
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Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 12:46:11
Media 1, your post at 12:03 was quite good in a vague kind of way. I admit the death analogy was a bit strong.
But as for hate; excuse me, but what is there to like?
As a Manchester police officer his opinion if you need enlightenment from someone with a bit more first hand experience.
To quote loosely a senior officer yesterday, "Soon about 70 arrests are going to be made. They are going to be pulled from their beds at dawn and arrested in their knickers. We're coming for them. We've followed the CCTV pictures from Manchester city centre to Buchanan street bus station."
And you're telling me I should embrace them?
130

big bucks,

Isle of Mull 07/09/2008 12:50:03
182 now you have had a chance to think about it,it seems you have no replacement for robson,Hartley and brown(all of them wanted by Walter Smith ofcourse).I would have put on Stewart for Hartley who has been poor recently.As for Broadfoot it was not long ago his own fans were booing him.
One game does not mean you are ready for a Scotland call up.Have you forgotten Kaunas so soon it was only five weeks ago.
Maybe Berra should be given a chance,but he has not played at this level.Caldwell and Mcmanus were part of the Celtic team that had the best defensive record in the spl last season. and made it to the last sixteen of the champions league.Although i think Mcmanus has had a poor start to the season.Scotlands problem was we should have put out a more attacking side and taken the game to them.I would have played Mcfadden and boyd up front.
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WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 12:57:48
big bucks....Stewart for Hartley? I thought you said one good game...
We agree Boyd should have started.
If you don't give Berra a game how does he gat the experience?
How about we wait for more injuries and give him his debut against Holland?
Broadfoot has been excellent, not just against celtic.
He palyed in A Uefa cup final which I'd like to bet none of the tic players yesteday will.
Look, I'm not slagging them just because they play for celtic.
But if Weir and Broadfoot had just been terrorised by celtic I wouldn't have wanted them to start for Scotland.
Or for the next Rangers game to be honest.
Do you reckon wgs will change the defence for the next game?
Whsoe place will Loovens take?
132

Media 1,

cape town 07/09/2008 13:02:19
Al Mac

I once say 3 lads in Celtic strips at Buchanan bus station smashing a bus with bats.
At no point did I say "bloody Celtic fans"

I said "bloody neds"

Just because a person wears a colour, does not mean he or she represents the club.
133

BEMUSED EXILE,

07/09/2008 13:02:40
There is only two things that Burley could have changed yesterday: The tactics and/or the personnel.

Tactically, I thought that Scotland showed far too much respect for both the conditions and the opponents in the first half yesterday, but the second half was better. The switch to a line-up that carried a genuine threat in wide areas also brought about positive change in the second period.

Personnel wise, as has already been asked, what could have been done differently? Well, it would have been nice to have Hutton and Ferguson (and just possibly James Morrison) available, but that was out of Burley's hands. Hutton would have given us much more presence on the right flank, Ferguson would have been in his team-mates faces urging and cajoling them to greater effort, and Morrison would have given us a dangerous left-wing option.

Of the players actually available though, perhaps only Maloney and/or Commons (who did very well) on from the start could have improved our performance. It may have seemed like a portentous move to play a right-back called Alexander in Macedonia, but Burley would have been far better drafting in Whittaker rather than Broadfoot, regardless of who Walter Smith prefers, because he would have carried more of an attacking threat.

As I said last night, six points from Iceland and Norway, and we're still alive and kicking. Anything less and it's a serious uphill struggle.
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WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 13:05:59
#190 Hear,hear.
Why Whittaker wasn't here is a mystery.
Was he injured?
If he wasn't then he should have played.
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big bucks,

07/09/2008 13:15:38
188 I don't agree that the reason for Celtics defeat by rangers was down to Caldwell and Mcmanus.Our keeper and our non existant left back were to blame.As i don't think the defence was to blame yesterday,the wall could have maybe done better.
Walter Smith still played Broadfoot when every rangers fan on the planet was demanding he should be dropped.So there for i can't see Gordon dropping Caldwell or McManus.
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WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 13:21:05
I hope strachan keeps playing them but does that mean he bought Loovens for back-up?
Why has it taken him so long to buy a left-back?
I would suggest you've neede one for 2 years but I suppose you've still won the league.
137

huggs,

07/09/2008 13:22:56
Scotland thread turned into a weegie thread
Scotland lads not all about the biggot brothers
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superdooper,

glasgow 07/09/2008 13:23:07
I see the Tartan Army's notorious reputation preceded them with the heavy police presence.
139

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 13:24:57
Broadfoot, Weir, Papac, Whittaker, Novo (Boyd 88), McCulloch, Dailly, Thomson, Adam (Velicka 66), Miller (Lafferty)

To those who started in bringing this Scotland thread to a "Bers would of done beter" discussion: does the above line-up ring any bells?

It should. It's the last Rangers team who were humiliated very recently OVER TWO LEGS by a lowly eastern European team by the name of Kaunas, who were subsequently annihilated in the very next round.

Please give it a rest and stop pretending that you have any interest in the Scotland team apart from a Rangers perspective.
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big bucks,

Isle of Mull 07/09/2008 13:28:00
193 I think we have needed a left back since Jackie left and Charlie Mulgrew seems to be playing well for Aberdeen.No one at Celtic understands it.

190 I think whittaker would have been a better option but how often has he played this season?
141

Helter Skelter,

07/09/2008 13:37:09
I thought both Caldwell and McManus did ok against rearrangerz...can't blame them individually for any of the goals :

Goal 1 : Wilson and Bioruc.

Goal 2 : Wilson and Boruc

Goal 3 : Entire defence really...possibly McManus' failure to organise, but collective responsibility I think.

Goal 4 : Boruc.

142

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/09/2008 13:38:11
#196 I recognise that line up.

The majority of those players humiliated Celtc at fortress Parkhead last week. Some fortress. Its the only fortress I have seen that flies a white flag.

Lucky you never played Kaunas or they would have taken 6 of you.

Artmedia Bratislava Anyone?
143

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 13:54:36
201

I'm not a Celtic fan but anyway, the POINT was that the players being suggested by tedious Rangers fans on this thread as being better than those who played yesterday for Scotland, got well beaten very recently by inferior eastern European opposition to the team Scotland played yesterday.

Now you mentioned BRATISLAVA, but haven't Rangers been humped in the league three times since then by that team YOU mentioned.?

Rangers fans are promoting Rangers players but surely a neutral is entitled to point out that they were not very clever looking when they got horsed out of Europe before the schools went back?
144

True Blue Ontario,

07/09/2008 13:54:37
Lets face just way too many useless tic players in the team - time for Scott Brown to move on, he obviously doesnt want to play for the ira team and the fact he knows he made a mistake is affecting the wee mans play.

Need a result on Wednesday otherwise the WC qualifying will be over before it gets started.
145

Malc.F,

france 07/09/2008 13:54:40
Just what comfort does he take from the defeat of France ? has he not heard of the auld alliance? I watched the match and granted France's defence were bad but 2 of Austrias goals came from free kicks that should not have been given but no complaints about the penalty. France dominated the match and significantly scored the only goal from open play . I will,of course be backing them to reach the final of the next world cup as I am so far ahead already. Wish I could back Scotland with the same confidence though they should have had a penalty.
Please would you OF people stop moaning about which club has the best players for Scotland just get behind the ones who are picked.
146

True Blue Ontario,

07/09/2008 13:58:45
Rangers are going to miss Cousin's physical presense in the big games and I can tell ye they have wasted 2.7 million on Edu - he is sh-te (with TFC in any case).
147

Gersproblems,

Castle Rock 07/09/2008 14:07:00
Surely we should have played all the Scottish players that rangers have on their books.........?????????????
148

Alexei Verdy,

The Press Box 07/09/2008 14:08:00
C'mon, does anyone really expect Scotland to win any football match, especially against teams whose name ends in 'ia' ? They have been total rubbish for years. I'm a Celtic fan but have to say that, with the exception of Maloney, the Celtic players were woeful. God help us in the CL ! World Cup ? Forget it. We are a joke.
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07/09/2008 14:12:48
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07/09/2008 14:23:50
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07/09/2008 14:29:01
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True Blue Ontario,

07/09/2008 14:29:30
211

Go get a dictionary dimwit
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07/09/2008 14:30:12
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07/09/2008 14:33:34
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07/09/2008 14:34:32
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guenevere,

07/09/2008 14:35:04
Maybe now Scotland will stop behaving like they are football icons,YOU LOST,England and Wales won,and are well on their way to the second round.
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07/09/2008 14:37:04
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guenevere,

07/09/2008 14:45:42
218. Walter Smith t-at.
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07/09/2008 14:48:20
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huggs,

07/09/2008 14:49:02
218 Macedonia (PIlton Serg)
For the new guts on here this plick pretended to be Lithuanian for over a year and talks totall sh1te dont know why any one bothers with him
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07/09/2008 14:49:26
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guenevere,

07/09/2008 14:50:54
222. NO!
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07/09/2008 14:52:42
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07/09/2008 14:57:47
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07/09/2008 14:59:01
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07/09/2008 15:00:29
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07/09/2008 15:00:54
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Norman,

07/09/2008 15:04:08
Gordon Smith's inability to get a decent fixture schedule has cost us dear. Madness playing them in their summer. Scotland should have insisted on a home game to start with, get off to a good beginning.

Should have penalties yes, but they could have scored more.
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07/09/2008 15:07:40
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07/09/2008 15:11:32
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guenevere,

07/09/2008 15:12:37
234. Why would a Macedonian guy support celtic!
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07/09/2008 15:13:35
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Steve Scotland,

07/09/2008 15:26:25
Some of the rubbish here is just the worst its ever been. I mean some of you are just pathetic.

I was really bad yesterday and scotland are better than that. Why we gave them any respect was beyond me. Burley PLAY TO WIN thats how it works mate, you have a good team let them play!
Cmon scotland three points on wednesday
181

guenevere,

07/09/2008 15:27:18
240. As a good Englandish person who is very proud of her country,and i mean ALL of her country,GREAT BRITAIN, we do not need sh-t stirrers like you fooking things up.
GET LOST.
182

arthurscross,

07/09/2008 15:31:27
#196 The post of the thread. Rearrangers fans have very short memories just like aunt sally's legs.
183

,

07/09/2008 15:31:31
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184

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 15:35:01
243
What did you do yesterday that was so bad?
185

arthurscross,

07/09/2008 15:35:16
#232 nineinarow

The garbage is coming from the Manchester Rioters Team my son.
186

arthurscross,

07/09/2008 15:35:26
#232 nineinarow

The garbage is coming from the Manchester Rioters Team my son.
187

huggs,

07/09/2008 15:35:34
How slow are you why answer him he is the same ersehole who pretended to be a Lith for over a year the guy needs mental help
Seriously
188

guenevere,

07/09/2008 15:39:33
246. We are union,England and scotland and wales come together to form Great Britain,we do not have collaborators.
189

,

07/09/2008 15:41:10
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190

WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 15:55:34
Can't believe that Macedonia celtic dafty has got so many bites .
I stand corrected...forgot about Maloney.
I think that the celtic players did their best and it wasn't really their fault that there were so few decent players available to help them out.
Fergie, Hutton, Thomson, Weir etc. Real, proper players.
But they did their best.
Also on a betting point, celtic won't finish with zero points from the CL. Go for 6 if you want to make some cash.
191

huggs,

07/09/2008 15:59:56
Not a lover of the OF by any means
But at least the Celtic players can be relied on to turn up when called upon
How many times have the Rankers players pulled out of midweek trips only to make a remarkable recovery come saturday
Its an honour to be picked for your country and a few players could take a leaf out of Hartleys book as far as that attitude goes
192

Media 1,

cape town 07/09/2008 16:06:34
Burley had no choice, he had to play the team he played. Burley is also a football man, he knows that the Celtic players out there were blown away by more qualified Rangers players just a week before. BUT IF HE CANT CHOOSE THOSE PLAYERS HE CANT PLAY THEM!

Scotland has problems with her structures. Schools are not forced to offer compulsory football, they should be. Our league is a 12 team farce.
There is no future in such a system, the 1st division needs to be incorporated into the Premier league and quickly.
Try find some spare land in Scotland that does NOT have a "no ball games" sign.
193

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 16:14:40
253 - Scotland and England have a Union.
Wales is an English-vanquished principality.

255 - Well said?
194

Media 1,

cape town 07/09/2008 16:17:21
pundit

Agreed, there is absolutely no chance of progress in a system run on the farcical mechanism that is Scottish league football. Four times in one season is a shocking system and it needs to be sorted out.
195

,

07/09/2008 16:25:08
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Reason:
196

Media 1,

cape town 07/09/2008 16:34:32
huggs

You cannot possibly be as short sighted as you are coming across.

There is no possible way that anyone can be as pathetic as you. Clutching at green and white hooped straws with a dash of gold and selling them off as Scottish is beyond the realms of reasonable thinking..

You really need to think before you bleat.
197

huggs,

07/09/2008 16:40:29
#265 Sick of you Rankers fans coming on and slagging the national team
Not got a clue they lads where asked to play turned up and did there best granted not good enough but they answered the call
About time you stopped being so blinkered and read posts
I am no Celtic fan but wont turn on the national team because they play for one side of the old firm

And when the rangers players play i wont slagg them off either
Its the lack of commitment i am unhappy with

Glad your not in this country we are overun with weegie biggots as it is
198

huggs,

07/09/2008 16:41:56
And for the record you are siding with one of the biggest ersholes on these thread
Always getting blanked by decent law abiding Edinburgh folk
199

Media 1,

cape town 07/09/2008 16:44:10
huggs

I am from Edinburgh and unlike you when I speak about my fellow Scotsmen who come from the city in the West. I refer to them as Glaswegians.

Perhaps you should COMMIT yourself to embracing that Scottish pride you are speaking about by showing some respect for your fellow Scots.
200

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 17:00:32
That the same Glaswegians who refer to anyone north of Falkirk as sheepsheggers and teuchters?
Get a grip.
201

Media 1,

cape town 07/09/2008 17:00:34
Pundit

I think you may be correct!

He is certainly not a fan of Glaswegians.
202

Media 1,

Cape Town 07/09/2008 17:03:15
Al Mac

Ah, but let us not forget that Pundit is not the one speaking about Scottish pride and committment...

Huggs has been bleating about passion, yet in the same breath he is also anti Glaswegian. So I do wonder what he has been on about.
203

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 17:18:10
In fairness I picked up that he was anti Rangers and Celtic bias with regard to the national team. Lumping them together as "the old firm" and weedgies.
I wouldn't have thought a derivative from a place name as offensive in any case - unlike sheepshegger.
204

Gorgie's Finest,

07/09/2008 17:21:25
Afternoon guys.

After the problems yesterday with the server. The Edinburgh Derby site for Hearts and Hibs fans is back open.

As i said the other day I have also included within the forums section forums for non Hearts and Hibs fans just keep our "Pundit" happy

http://www.edinburghderby.streamlinenettrial.co.uk/html/index.php
205

pwd,

Borders 07/09/2008 17:22:49
Is it time to think of a British soccer team? Compare the misery of yesterday with the joys of supporting Team GB in the olympics.
206

Daillyman,

07/09/2008 17:24:10
275 GF

He is a popular lad our pundit is.

Well done for the work on you're site.
207

lapreyla,

denmark 07/09/2008 17:27:50
So depressing to read most of this thread. We were too in awe 1st half, we conceded a poor goal and then we huffed and we puffed. Brown needs 20 minutes to control the ball - too long for a midfielder. Miller is out of his depth at this level, Commons and Maloney looked good and created some openings. Do I blame Burley, not really - at least yesterday we looked like we might get back into it - not something we could say when Walter and Alex were on a damage control mission.

Norway dropped some points last night and we should remain hopeful - it was very unlikely that we were ever gonna win this group so lets focus on qualifying through the play-offs.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if Holland dont quite cut it as runaway favourites. Onwards and upwards - a win in Iceland and suddenly we are right back in it. Commons, Maloney and McFadden up front from the start. Let's try and win the game - dictate the pace. We'll be coming
208

Gorgie's Finest,

07/09/2008 17:36:31
#277 Thanks DM

#278 Pundit

Unfortunately it was out of my control the web hosting company were updating the SQL servers. So really it was typical English, as thats where the company is based lol
209

Ajax MacKindling,

07/09/2008 17:37:00
Oh well, much gnashing of teeth and bumping of gums going on here, not to mention all the single finger typing.

I'm afraid the facts speak for themselves.

Celtc players just can't do it out of Scotland?
What is going wrong with the coaching at CP?
210

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 17:48:10
"one good thing that could come from it is that it could pave the way for the old firm to enter the premiership"

How many times do you have to be told?

THEY DON'T WANT YOU.
211

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 17:50:20
"kenny miller has scored 11 goals in 39 matches
not bad for someone who is 'out of his depth'..."

Depends how many goals you want your STRIKER to score in a season of 39 matches.....
212

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 07/09/2008 17:56:06
Firstly I am a diehard Scotland fan. I went to my first Scotland England game at 11 or so, the crowd at Hampden was in excess off 130,000. What an experience that was.

However we just returned from Scotland last week, and saw first hand the shambles that is Scottish football.

It starts with the SFA, then the SFL then the SPL. All self serving, and DO NOT work in the interests of Scottish football.

We were at Ibrox a few weeks back to see the the Hearts game. ( We are fans of neither, and on our last visit took in the Celtic Hearts game at Parkhead. 5-0 Celtic.)

Mendez was unreal..no one on the park had anything like his footskill, game sense or engine. Although a marvelous player. He is what 29, and no where near the top ten of mid fielders in the world.

Scotland simply does not produce, or allow the talented players to develop. Mendez has had all of two caps for Portugal, and has just now been re called to the squad.

Imagine if he were Scottish? He would have had a hundred caps by now. Our depth at talented positions is pitiful. How many of or players are actually comfortable on the ball??

We can still qualify, but we must gamble like the U 21's do, and stop with the same old donkey's

Soar Alba.




213

Helter Skelter,

07/09/2008 18:00:39
284

I agree. Strachan pointed this out last season...you don't always go 'up a level' at international standard.

when mcmanus and Caldwell line up against man u, they'll think macedonia, Iceland et al a walk in the park.
The same will be true of villareal, and to a lesser extent against Aalborg.

Any top 6 spl side would be on a par or slightly better, the bottom 6 sides on a par or slightly worse.

So, 11 goals from 39 international matches is not necessarily a good return...it depends on who you scored them against.

214

Ajax MacKindling,

07/09/2008 18:02:00
285 Dekester

Couldn't agree more.
When Rangers pick up a surplus to requirement Portsmouth midfielder and he is another class from what we see week in week out...it makes you wonder what is going on.
215

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 18:02:37
Dekester
You are absolutely correct.
That's why we're all depressed.
(In a football sense.)
216

Helter Skelter,

07/09/2008 18:08:08
Who will lead scotland into euro 12 ?

After we lose or draw with iceland, wouldn't it be better to get burley's successor in now and provide him with a long run at getting us qualified for euro 12 ?
217

Gorgie's Finest,

07/09/2008 18:11:22
Gordon Smith and the SFA should look into a full time football academy in this country, one where Kids as young as 11 or 12 (High school age) can attend full time where they will have their schooling during the day but alsi have full time coaching during scholl (P.E.) and after school. Scholarships could be given to children whose parents are maybe on lower incomes and/or fees can be means tested.
218

LionheartFodithman,

07/09/2008 18:32:25
Evening GF.
Good shout but we all know nothing like that will ever happen.The SFA doesnt do forward thinking.

#290 Diddyman
You supporting England ??
219

Gorgie's Finest,

07/09/2008 18:37:07
#292 Evenin LF

Thing is every club would benefit as well as the Scottish national team. GS etc will say the cost of something like this would be too much, but each club could contribute to the costs annually, and the SFA make plenty money from sponsorships etc. If we are to improve as a country its schemes like this that need to be implemented, and sooner rather than later. It took the academies in England a good 5 years or so to start producing the goods.
220

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 18:41:40
"It took the academies in England a good 5 years or so to start producing the goods."

Tell that to the England fans at last night's game.
221

Union Jack Jambo,

07/09/2008 18:43:39
We should have a "British" team. Sod this England/Scotland/Wales nonsense.

We're BRITISH.
222

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 18:52:31
That would be the Royal "We" I take it?
The Royal Loyal Lothian pretendy "wee Rangers" supporter.
223

LionheartFodithman,

07/09/2008 18:54:22
#293 GF
Not many Engerland fans happy where i was last night.In fact there was no happy ones.
It made me feel slightly better after our shoddy performance.
I actually dont think we have that bad a squad.
Second half we should have won the game for me.Either penalty shout would have brought us back into the game.
We cant usually criticise the passion of the boys but 1st half you would have to and thats the problem that GB should be held accountable for.
224

jerrymanders,

07/09/2008 18:59:09
#295

No we're not.
225

jerrymanders,

07/09/2008 19:05:43
#296

Puntit

Back on again or have you actually left this thread? To go back to your very first point (pro Rangers of course) Bazza has presided over many a poor Scotland defeat (as has Weirysome). However, these days he is always injured and yet you say he would have dominated that game! Capt Fantastic hasn't got fifty caps yet! He should be heading for a hundred. The guy cannot be relied upon when it comes to playing for the Nation.
226

Ajax MacKindling,

07/09/2008 19:20:05
295 Union Jack Jambo,

I'm Scottish, and a Rangers fan too, get your head around that. I'm a fan of Rangers Football Club, not of the Union Jack.

If you want to talk about politics, this isn't the place.
This is the place to point out Broadfoot skinned McGeady and we all have a wee smile.
227

,

07/09/2008 19:21:21
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228

Al-Mac,

07/09/2008 19:29:12
Yeah, just like we all smiled at wee Bazza's face up at Pittodrie last May when the UEFA Cup finalists got a good doing from a team costing about 20mil less!
Now THAT was worth pointing out!
229

True Blue Ontario,

07/09/2008 19:50:09
Al Mac - Just pay ye 5% and shut yer bleatin bake
230

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 07/09/2008 20:15:32
It is denial..plain and simple. Much like Englands dilema.

They are arguably far worse than Scotland. When one takes into consideration the infrastructure they have, not to mention the finances.

It will not be to far in the future that all the clubs in the premiership will have foreign owners. What then? They will have no loyalty to the home grown player. Here in N.A all the major league sports have salary caps. Hopefully the EPL will see that one day..I am not holding my breath though.

Enough of my negativity..the sun is out here, and I am away to watch some youth football at the park.

Let us attack against Iceland, Norway and think against the Dutch, and we might just squeak 2nd spot.

All the best.

231

WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 07/09/2008 20:26:26
Dekester, if you're going to come on spouting p'sh at least do a bit of research.
Pedro Mendes is a bargain for the Gers at 3mil.
How many other players in the SPL have a CL winners medal and an Fa cup winners medal?
His 25 yarder against celtic wasn't a fluke either.
He saved Portsmouth from relegation with goals which included a 25 yarder against Man City.
And remember the 50 yarder against Man u that didn't count?
Mind you, I suppose you're spoiled in Canada with all that top-class soccer over there.
232

Ajax MacKindling,

07/09/2008 20:31:31
303 Al-Mac
Yup exactly right. Thats why I'm here, football.
233

Stars in your eyes,

07/09/2008 20:35:10
It were grim - very grim

This Scotland team cannot possibly qualify playing worse than an average SPL team.

I've been reading through a few of the posts. I'd like to point out that the Celtic players didn't play particularly well but at least they turned up.

We may not have top quality players in Scotland, but I think we have the players that can beat Macedonia away. When Smith was in charge we comfortably beat better team than Macedonia. If only his teams could have attacked more he would have been a great Scotland manager.

I think the problem is that there are too many foreign players in the SPL. Burley will have to look in the lower leagues for players. There are probably decent Scottish players playing reserve team football at the moment which is a bad scenario in a twelve team league.

I heard an interview with him after the game and he was upbeat saying we dominated the second half. I was quite surprised and disappointed. If I managed that team I would think about a career change, maybe go into after dinner speaking or something. Burley has to be given a chance but if he can't get a respectable second place in this group he should be fired.

As for the game, their goal was a blantant dive for the free kick, but I can't say they didn't deserve the win.

I keep saying it but we need a big centre-forward for set-pieces and holding the ball up for Miller/McFadden or whoever. I can't think of anyone better than O'Connor.
234

Dundee Pie,

Canada 07/09/2008 21:24:25
Looks like the republics tactics may have helped. Changed the kick off time to the hottest time of day and block the TA from entering the arena.

Payback time.

Change the kick off time a few weeks in advance to later in the evening, hopefully its wet and cold. And oh yeah, you need a non-Macedonian passport to enter Hampden.

And the TA should give them a rousing welcome and a good nights rest.

Ok, yes I am going through my bitter loser phase.
235

Stars in your eyes,

07/09/2008 21:58:09
#309
I don't agree it was half-hearted. Hartley had a poor game. Mcmanus was okay. Brown was indifferent. Thought Caldwell played well and Robson was dangerous. Maloney threatened a few times. The problem wasn't the Celtic players. In fact Celtic would have taken that team to the cleaners, and the amount of diving that was going on they needed to go there.

As for the fake injuries, I think it wise that Rangers players save thelmselves for the league, because its going to be a hard season for them if they want to top Celtic. The pressure is on them and they don't want to get really injured. To be honest there aren't many Rangers players who are that good except the foreign ones - Davis and Mendez. I don't think they would make much of a difference. Maybe Whittaker at full-back?
236

Stars in your eyes,

07/09/2008 22:29:54
#313
Weir? He is getting on a bit for international level.

Ferguson is a good goal scorer but he has seen better days. I don't think he is better than Robson or Brown.

Thomson - Certainly a squad player but is he better than Hartley?

The problem with Ferguson and Thomson is that Scotland already have a good level of player in midfield. I don't think Scotland miss either of them.
237

Stars in your eyes,

07/09/2008 22:49:48
#315

Do you watch games with blue tinted spectacles on?

Only joking.

I'm signing off. Hopefully Scotland will crush the Ice-landers.
238

,

07/09/2008 23:03:17
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Reason:
239

Daillyman,

07/09/2008 23:46:26
thepundit

Is that you now approaching a 24hr shift on these threads?

FFS Burley could have used you're stamina yesterday.
240

jerrymanders,

08/09/2008 00:16:02
Pundat (mince)

Fergie doesn't play for Scotland these days. Remember last season when he played for his club "through the pain barrier" and yet wouldn't play for his Nation? Him and Weiry have been a major part of why we cannot qualify for a tournament. All those caps and nothing to show for it. Thommo is following in Bazza's footsteps..........
241

discman,

edinburgh 08/09/2008 00:17:23
That wasnt a Scottish team yesterday it was a collection of individuals,compare the scotttish rugby team everyone sings the national anthem arms around each others shoulders looking like they would die for the shirt,yeterday half the team wernt even singing no passion no drive maybe it was the managers fault for not instilling that desire but irrespective of the club side when you pull on a Scotland shirt they should remember they represent all the people who follow them and all the people who,like the majority of people on this page would have loved to play football for Scotland
242

Daillyman,

08/09/2008 01:44:29
320 jerry

Players who are carrying injuries or knocks are going to protect their career and the club does come first, in most professionals opinions.

The clubs pay the wages of stars making 15-30k a week not the SFA.

Like you I would prefer all players play for their country, but lets not kid ourselves we know where player loyalty lies,, its their wallet.

Look what happened to Kennedy playing for Scotland, if had not been injured and kept his steady progression in the tic side, I wonder what pay packet he would be on today, or could he have been another Cuellar and sold for 8mil,

Its a short career and a lot of players want the clubs big wages not so much the glory of pulling on their countries jersey.
243

Pipe smoker,

Montrose 08/09/2008 14:27:48
Skopje a 'grim city'? I lived and worked there for a year, 2005-2006 and found it entirely congenial - and notably chav-free. Yes, the part south of the River Vardar is entirely modern; that's because of a rather nasty earthquake in 1963. However,there are lots of parks, with fountains, trees and flowers. Those who live in the Communist-era blocks tend to decorate their windows with flower-baskets. It is entirely pleasant to sit in a cafe on the banks of the Vardar or in Macedonia Square with perhaps a glass of the excellent local wine or some of the best ice-cream in Europe and look out over the mediaeval Stone Bridge and the mediaeval Turkish castle to the mountains. Perhaps Mr English didn't notice them? This terminology smacks of cheap journalistic cliché. Turning to the stadium, not having any particular interest in football, I have never actually entered the 'sad excuse for a stadium' - a distinctly insulting term - but it looks fine from the outside: anyway, if there is a pitch and goalposts, what more do you need? Does Mr English subscribe to the view that the 'w***s begin at Calais?
244

Armstrong Cowan Again,

Germany 08/09/2008 15:09:30
It is a terrible start but far too early to talk as if it is all over. Unfortunately the recent performances of both France and Italy have also put our Euro qualification into a more modest perspective. We never do well in the heat but Scotland will just have to do better. The Germans beat lichtenstein 6.0 and always seem to get an easy opponent in order to get off to a good start. I suppose nobody could have predicted the heat wave ib S. Europe in recent days.

 

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