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Cameron calls for honesty on state of union

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Published Date: 09 November 2008
THE number of people in England, Wales and Scotland who see themselves as British is in decline, David Cameron has declared.
Speaking at a party fundraiser in Glasgow last week, the Conservative leader said it was time to be "honest" about the problems facing the union.

Among those, he said, was the fact that fewer and fewer people across the UK saw themselves as Britis
h first and foremost.

In a speech on Friday night, he said: "I believe we should be honest about the problems our union faces. It's not just that the SNP are running Scotland; it goes deeper than that. There is no doubt that the number of people who see themselves as British – ahead of Scottish, Welsh or English – is in decline."

Cameron added: "It is in fact about identity. You see it all over Europe, all over the world. People are seeking a clear identity; often a more localised identity. Just look at the rise of Cornish nationalists. I think we shouldn't fight that; I think we should build on top of that to create an inclusive British identity."

The Tory leader's comments come amid growing focus on the status of Britishness, particularly following the rise of the SNP in Scotland.

Gordon Brown has sought to strengthen the idea of a British identity, suggesting there be a "British" bank holiday, for example.

Cameron said he opposed such "mechanical" moves to strengthen a British identity, arguing instead that unionist politicians needed to renew "a sense of belonging" among people.

There is conflicting research about whether Britishness is in decline. A survey in January in the Births Social Attitudes Report asked people to choose one national identity for themselves.

In England, 39% said they were British, down 9% from the previous year. In Scotland, only 3% of people said they considered themselves "only" or "mainly" British, down from 9% three years earlier.

But John Curtice, professor of politics at Strathclyde University, said that the evidence showed most people were still content to define themselves as having a dual nationality.

He said: "There is no doubt that in Scotland and in Wales, national identity is ahead of British identity. In England, the two are in competition with each other. But in all three countries, a lot of people recognise both.

"It is only when you put them against a wall and force them to choose, they opt one way or another."

He added: "In Scotland, the position hasn't really changed over the last 10 years. Around 75% to 80% of people regard themselves as Scottish ahead of British."

Cameron was speaking at a fundraiser in Glasgow organisers by the Scottish businessman Sir Jack Harvie.

He insisted that there was a future for the Tories in Scotland.

Cameron commented: "Surely Scotland deserves better than having to choose between a centre-left party – Labour – that has failed the country, and another centre-left party – the SNP – which wants to break it up."





The full article contains 499 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Guga II,

Rockall 09/11/2008 02:58:33
Cameron needs to wake up to himself. The anachronistic and archaic Union is dead, and until the Tories start supporting independence for Scotland, they are going to remain a minority party which will be in continual danger of losing their deposits in any elections.

As for nationality, many people, like myself, consider themselves to be Scottish. We are not "British", which is an artificial concept, and never will be.

2

donald,

glasgow 09/11/2008 06:11:54
The Onion was built on dishonesty and is held together by dishonest means. Is this news?
3

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 07:36:26
At a time, when the Scots Tories are on their uppers, David Cameron could not have chosen a worse moment to express these damaging views on the Union?

He must really be out of touch if he doesn't realise that the long gone 20th Century British State has effectively evolved into a quasi-Federal state in everything but constitutional name?

In repeated efforts to preserve the UK State, previous governments have done everything in their power to halt Celtic nationalism, and failed.

However, the fact remains that Irish Nationalists are now in a power-sharing Northern Ireland Government because there was no other choice.

The once dominant Labour Party In Wales is also in coalition with Plaid Cymru in the Welsh Assembly Government because it also had no other option.

In years to come, do not be surprised if a Scots Unionist party has no other choice but to share power with the SNP at Holyrood!




4

Roy,

09/11/2008 09:01:18
I think, based on their recent record, the last thing that the banks need is a British bank holiday.
5

Boy Wonder,

09/11/2008 09:23:23
Cameron calls for honesty ...

Well, let's start with HIM!!!
6

Home Rule for England,

Southampton,England 09/11/2008 10:05:48
"Cameron commented: "Surely Scotland deserves better than having to choose between a centre-left party – Labour – that has failed the country"

What 'country would that be Mr Cameron? If you mean Scotland why don't you say Scotland. If you mean the UK say the UK! That remark is just typical double talk that hacks people off! When are we English going to get our own English Parliament Mr Cameron with only members representing English constituencies and an English First Minister? You've tried crawling to the Scottish people that hasn't worked. You've insulted us English nationalists with your 'sour little Englanders' jibes. What's next? Get off the fence man and say someting constructive or go away. So there's a rise in Cornish nationalism is there? What about English nationalism? Any more thoughts on that because it's here and it's growing!
7

The_Reiver,

09/11/2008 10:35:17

Some of us reject the childish, irrational concept of nationalism whether it is British, Scottish, Welsh or Mongolian.

What was it old Marx Said "workers of the world unite". Nationalism throws a spanner in the world of the worker. Do not be duped- Nationalism, like religion is simply a tool of the establishment to maintain the status quo. The SNP are very cosy with the reactionary forces of the Anglo-Scottish establishment. Just look at who their advisers are on economic and 'moral' issues.
8

subrosa,

09/11/2008 10:52:01
# 7
To reverse your comment - so you think labour is on the side of the worker these days? Let's wait a few months and see what workers, or redundant workers, think. Many workers have left unions in the past few years because they consider the unions no longer have their interests at heart.

Once this recession bites and labour have no money left to do anything, opinion will be rather different.
9

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 10:53:51
Since Cameron recognises that the Cornish have a distinct identity (and an equivalent party to the SNP, Mebyon Kernow which no doubt has concentrated his mind by winning at local elections) why not offer Cornwall a devolved parliament? The Tories have a cornish spokesman but Cornwall deserves better.

Or why not argue for more power for Wales? In fact the British state with all the power centred in London suits the tories who hope to take over the reigns of power in London shortly.

The Tories cannot be trusted to devolve any power and only a fool would believe otherwise.

As for #7 recognition of the right to self determination is a fundamental aspect of human rights. Rather than looking for a world dictatorship maybe you should consider the situation in your own back yard.

In an independent Scotland socialists could argue their case and, if successful, implement a manifesto. This might encourage other countries to follow our example, just as the social democratic states in Sweden, Denmark and Norway have inspired others.

British national identity prevents Scotland from playing a full part in the EU and the world. It is a barrier to progress for our country which needs to be demolished. If you ignore this then you will remain irrelevant to Scotland.
10

Home Rule for England,

Southampton,England 09/11/2008 13:22:42
#9 the Tories are just as bad as Nieu Labour the Lib Dems and all the rest of the gravy train Westminster politicians.
Why doesn't Cameron propose resolving a few issues. A referendum on independence in Scotland, and one in England,Wales and N.Ireland to settle the question one way or the other? Those countries that want to stay together can do so and those that want out can go. I'd vote for an independent England.
I tell you why. Because the politicians have it too easy.They don't want to lose their comfortable Westminster salaries and perks.
As for offering Cornwall their own Parliament, let them have the choice. Maybe he could also offer the Highlands and Islands their own Parliament?
11

mesmiths,

fife 09/11/2008 13:23:13
Not sure why he chose to mention cornish nationalism, really do not see any connection. Hope he wasn't trying to imply the movement for Scottish independence is similarly ludicrous.
12

Friseal,

09/11/2008 14:57:30

Nothing can be done to stem it, like he said people all over europe are chosing local nationalities, rather than being lumped in with other people its normal.

Only he is delaying it, as it Brown. Better to just get on with it really.
13

Itchy,

09/11/2008 15:40:07
#7 "What was it old Marx Said "workers of the world unite"."

Marx was the father of modern totalitarianism and was a complete stranger to the concept of work.
14

Itchy,

09/11/2008 15:42:10
#9 "In an independent Scotland socialists could argue their case and, if successful, implement a manifesto."

Socialism is the problem in Scotland, not the solution.
15

Alan B,

09/11/2008 15:52:29
Cameron atleast does seem to have a better and more mature understanding of the union than Brown and other labour morons.

Whether it is all talk and the tories revernt to its little englishness is a different matter.

Problem with the union with the union is not having a union per se but the union at any price. A union in which scottish unionist would rather run down scotland rather than standing up for scotland within that union, restructuring the union to work in scotland interests etc.

As such i cannot see any other approach other than independence.
16

yoric,

09/11/2008 16:04:38
It's about time Cameron accepted the obvious, that the Tories are finished in Scotland.

The Conservatives should cut Scotland free and campaign in England only where they win seats.

The next English elected Conservative Westminster Government would then be Englands Government in Westminster which would also be Englands Parliament.

This would please the English who are fed up of subsidising Scotland, and also ensure that the Labour party which is usually elected outside of England would never govern again in England.
Independence for Scotland, Independence for England, and everyone, except Labour is happy.
17

Raymond Thomas Brooke,

Leven England 09/11/2008 17:32:16
#yoric
even in an independent Scotland (if it is truly independent and democratic)should still allow any party to campaign for office if you do not you will eventually have a dictatoral state.
I am not particularly bothered what party rules England so long it is legally elected, I do not regard myself as British I am English and need to have an English Parliament.sadly this currently denied this by a Scots controlled Labour government so any ideas you may have to rid us of GB and AD will be well received
18

Alan B,

09/11/2008 18:38:18
#Raymond Thomas Brooke

"I do not regard myself as British I am English and need to have an English Parliament"

The reason England does not have an english parliament is little to do with scotland. It is becuase the english electrate have not wanted or pushed for one. The idea has only been awaken after scotland etc got a devolved parliament.

Also neither of the 2 big unionist political parties which are english dominated due to the massive difference in size of the countries support an english parliament. As for labour being scottish dominated. Yes they have a scottish leader at the moment but he was just voted in by a dominent english party.
19

Raymond Thomas Brooke,

Leven England , 09/11/2008 19:35:05
Both GB and AD plus others in the Labour party are elected from Scotland There is a strong wish in England to have our own Parliament recent polls suggest this is in the order of 69%.This is why Cameron is raising the subject now and why the present"BRITISH" governement refuse to let us have a referendum fear for their own egos and their personal financial future
20

Raymond Thomas Brooke,

Leven England 09/11/2008 19:36:55
Sorry forgot irrespective of all of this I am English and do not want ever to be British I leave that to the unionist and immigrant population
21

Mercian,

UK 09/11/2008 23:17:54
#12 mesmiths

Why do you consider Cornish nationalism ludicrous? Seems a bit of a double-standard if you believe in Scottish independence.
22

TWC,

Ayrshire 10/11/2008 16:59:51
21 Raymond Thomas Brooke

Quite right and if Mr Cameron really wants to be honest he can start by making sure the Calman commission is honest in the financial powers for Scotland and not let the Labour party hoard everything in the treasury.
There will be no peace without justice and that means control of the purse strings and the jobs to collect all our revenues.
23

lulach mac gille coemgain,

11/11/2008 18:05:01
Picts - rise again !
24

john z,

edinburgh 11/11/2008 23:01:39
You know, although I believe in Scottish independence, as the union has no benefits for Scotland, I am astonished that no other political party has yet realised that the world has changed. It seems the other parties all have their heads in the sand, and if they close their eyes and put their fingers in their ears then independence for Scotland will just go away.

In some respects it is like the old political parties of Germany carrying on in the same way after the Berlin wall came down. Political parties cannot stay the same, they need to change and adapt to the changing circumstances and political aspirations of a population.

For the tories, I think they could win a landslide at the next generl election if they proposed greater autonomy fro Scotland and Wales, with Westminster formally becoming the english parliament. There could then be a federal style loose 'union' where each of the constituent countries could have an equal say on the very few matters which it is felt a joint approach would be useful for.

But, sadly, nobody currently in politics in the UK is even giving any of this the slightest thought - it is a case of just ignoring the changes that have happened in Scotland and Wales.

Maybe the prospect of a permanent tory majority in a purely english parliament might just help the tories think a little bit harder, and come up with really fresh, innovative political thinking.

 

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