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Boris blunders into subsidy row



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Published Date: 08 June 2008
BORIS Johnson sparked an angry cross-border row last night by claiming Londoners resent "forking out for things in Scotland".
The newly elected London Mayor – who is notorious for his controversial outbursts – added that Scottish politicians, including Gordon Brown, were treating the country in an "inequitable" way.

Johnson's remarks reopened the long and bitter argument about whether Scotland is subsidised by the rest of the UK.

Labour and Tory politicians have questioned whether an independent Scotland would have the cash to go it alone, while Nationalists have insisted that Scottish oil is keeping the UK afloat and would be enough to sustain an independent Scotland.

In a newspaper interview yesterday, Johnson said of residents of London and the south-east: "They're forking out for things in Scotland and you've got Scottish MPs, the Prime Minister and Chancellor, who are treating the country in an inequitable way."

But Angus Robertson, SNP Westminster leader, said: "When Boris Johnson gets up in the morning, he should thank his lucky stars that Scottish oil revenues are keeping the London Treasury afloat. And at bedtime, he should express his gratitude to the rest of the country for the Lottery good causes money being diverted to fund the London Olympics.

"Now that Boris is elected, it's time for him to get real. Public spending per head is higher in London than in Scotland. Even his predecessor, Ken Livingstone, eventually realised the error of his ways and accepted that Scotland subsidises the UK exchequer. Educating Boris in financial reality might prove more difficult."

Lib Dem MSP Robert Brown said: "I hope for the sake of his readers that Mayor Johnson's newspaper column is more accurate than this interview. He should know better than recycling Ken Livingstone's dodgy claims."

A Scottish Labour spokesman said: "Obviously Boris's old habit of insulting people across the UK has not left him. He is talking nonsense and he should apologise for his ridiculous remarks."

No one was available for comment from the Scottish Tories.

A spokesman for Johnson claimed that the remarks should not be seen as an attack on the Scots.

He said: "Boris Johnson is keen to keep his manifesto commitment to the people of London to ensure that they will not be short-changed. He is concerned that the Chancellor and the Prime Minister might hold back on funding the upgrade of the Underground and significant infrastructure projects such as Crossrail. He understands that if that were to happen, many people in London might feel resentful. Boris Johnson has only warmth and admiration for the people of Scotland."

Johnson defeated Labour London Mayor Ken Livingstone last month, despite the Tory being initially written off as a gaffe-prone figure of fun by many pundits.

The full article contains 460 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Angus Ogg,

07/06/2008 22:10:55

I am kind of ambivalent towards the Union and am not a full on Nationalist voter yet, but after the creep Livingstone a seemingly intelligent man uttering anti-Scottish garbage, now we have the Eton Clown opening his mouth with brain disengaged.

If only the Labour and Tory machine politicians but realised, the more of this tripe that comes from their idiot politicians, the more that Labour and Conservatine lose their grip on the floating voters that once voted for their parties, and kept them in office.

Methinks that David Cameron is a neutered version of Boris Johnson. Gordon Brown is bad, but Heaven help us if we get Tory Boy Cameron.

Livingstone quote.... "We need Crossrail to keep London's economy ticking over so that we can continue to pay for the Scottish to live the lifestyle to which they are accustomed". What an ar5e, good riddance.
2

Conan the Librarian™,

08/06/2008 00:08:10
Another nail in the coffin of the Union:-)
3

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08/06/2008 00:13:40
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4

Colkitto,

River Clyde 08/06/2008 00:28:42
It makes the Cameron quote at the Scottish Conference seem like utter nonsense now. "We will govern Scotland with respect" Ha ha ha ha ........Roll on the Tory victory at the next Westminster election...So we can finally get rid of these numpties !
5

Nikostratos,

08/06/2008 00:30:36
That Boris I would never ever ever vote for him ever .He's a smooth talking son of a bit'h............But i might sleep with him........
6

Castaway,

08/06/2008 00:31:45
Why if we have been such a drain on English resources for so long, why didn't they kick us out years ago ?
7

Nikostratos,

08/06/2008 00:38:27
#6

Rising oil prices.dic'wit
8

moral___superiority_,

08/06/2008 00:41:58
Where is that SNP bore Senga Jean?

She always gets first post.

Fingers crossed she has been banned.
9

Dave C.,

08/06/2008 00:50:52
Aberdeen has always had fishing, and nowadays it also has oil. Glasgow exists because of building ships, sewing machines, etc. Birmingham makes bicycles, cars, etc. Sheffield makes cutlery and fine steel. Leicester makes shoes. But what is London for? Answer, it is for being the centre of government. It is a great swollen pus-filled lump of a place with no reason for existing other than government. It was already too big, and a drain on the rest of the country, when it was just the capital of England. Then it became the capital of the United Kingdom, too. Then it became the capital of the British Empire. And although the Empire is gone, it remained a hugely important financial capital, the centre of the Sterling Area. Nowadays, it is ranked along with Tokyo and New York as one of just three "world cities" which drain the rest of the world's finances. But it doesn't actually DO anything. People in London either work for the government; or they work for bodies supposedly independent of the government (but not really), like the BBC; or they work in the offices of company headquarters which are there because the Government is there; or they work for Banks which are there because the government is there; or they work for public relations firms which are there because the government is there; or they work for global capitalist outfits which are there because the government and all these other things connected with government are there; or they work for service industries which are there to service the people who work for the government and the people who are there because the government is there; or they work for service industries which are there to service the people who work for service industries which are there to service the people who work for the government and the people who are there because the government is there; and so on....I lived in London for twelve years, working as a bricklayer. Well, you might think, a building worker, an honourable trade. But did
10

Dave C.,

08/06/2008 00:54:45
Okay, so that post got cut because it was too long. Here is the rest of it: I lived in London for twelve years, working as a bricklayer. Well, you might think, a building worker, an honourable trade. But did I ever, in that twelve years, actually work on building ANYTHING that would have needed building if the government had not been in London? Probably not. Take away government and bureaucracy and global capitalist headquarters and there is no reason for London. Never let anybody from London tell you that they subsidise ANYTHING. The entire city is totally dependent on government handouts of one kind or another, paid for by the rest of the UK. As for the taxes which people in London pay to the government, well, like the Bible says, "we give thee but thine own".
11

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08/06/2008 01:00:51
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12

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 08/06/2008 01:04:42
I love Boris. If I lived in London I would have voted for him...... He just says what he thinks, luckily for us he knows next to nothing about the politics and finances of the Union.

Dear Boris will unwittingly be a contributing factor in the break up of the Union.

Equally it might be a Tory plot to get rid of Labour Scotland.
13

Tiree,

Vancouver, Canada 08/06/2008 01:19:36
What more could you expect from Batty Boris?

The voters would have been better off with Dick Whittington and his cat on the ballot.

And Boris would be a shoe-in as a commedian on 'Just for larfs' :)
Tiree
14

Cincinnatus,

Edinburgh 08/06/2008 01:31:52
Boris is merely a representative of the Tory party at large, it's absoulutely fantastic that this buffoon is in office.

The Scottish Tories are doomed:-)
15

Al Ford,

Insch 08/06/2008 01:43:07
Who can be bothered any more even noticing all this nonsense about Scotland being subsidised by England? It is too too puerile, not least when it comes from Boris Johnson.

Who cares what English politicians think? Too tedious.
16

Richardinho,

08/06/2008 01:54:48
Boris is a complete disgrace to the role of Mayor of London; He's not even heard of the Olympics!
17

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 08/06/2008 01:59:12
“Boris Johnson has only warmth and admiration for the people of Scotland."

We shall all rest much easier in our beds tonight knowing that.

18

Senga Jean,

Scotland 08/06/2008 02:22:24
#10 I wish you would stop flirting with me . I told you yesterday that I have to work for a living. And we working girls cannot always be on this site at the crack of dawn. Now back to the boring bit,I think Boris is beginning to look like a better recruiting Sergeant for the SNP than Livingstone ever was. Roll on to INDEPENDENCE!
19

­­­,

08/06/2008 02:25:23
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20

­­­,

Borris' Brain Scan Result 08/06/2008 02:33:35
ERROR #666....Component not found
21

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08/06/2008 03:21:14
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22

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08/06/2008 03:21:36
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23

,

08/06/2008 03:23:21
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24

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08/06/2008 03:25:06
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25

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08/06/2008 03:25:28
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26

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08/06/2008 03:25:45
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27

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08/06/2008 03:26:03
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28

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08/06/2008 03:26:18
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29

glassbenmhor,

08/06/2008 06:03:25
Well done Traquir,

Do not worry these two newspaper will be taken over, I suggest to you within two years Johnstone Press know full well the game is up both politically and financially, at present they are just being bloody-minded.

This in the new light of things to come will actually be a blessing, for in Scotland after the first year of deliverance there will be absolutely zero for Unionists to sanely argue for.

More thanks is also needed as this new dawn will include all of Scotland unlike Ireland's recent history with the dreaded "Free Staters" an the horror of Civil war.

However I am somewhat nervous as to the financial future of England, which looks grim indeed.This thought leads me personally to ponder her outcome, here we will maybe see a three way split South East,South West and North to the very firm strains of "Ode to Joy" and the EU.

Either or, very interesting times just around the corner
30

Jimmy the Pie,

08/06/2008 06:20:27
Excellent postings Traquir.

The Scottish press has been truly shocking in their biased reporting.

They deserve all they're going to get!
31

Castaway,

08/06/2008 06:41:24
#25-32 - Traquir: Good work and well worth the effort you took to prepare and submit your comments
I hope others will also take on board/read what you wrote.
The McCrone report is just a vaild now as it was in 1974 and I felt betrayed by the Labour Party after this report was disclosed.
I was already betrayed by the Labour Party with 1979 referendum on devolution and that silly 40% rule.
With an estimated 30 billion barrels of North Sea oil over the next 50 years and with oil at $100-$200 a barrel that is a lot of money which could come to an independent Scotland which has a population of just over 5 million people.
We could set up the Scottish equivalent of the Norwegian oil (Government Pension Fund) fund which started with an initial investment of £174m in 1990 and is now worth £196bn - March 2008.
Norway pumps three million barrels of oil from the North Sea daily, and is now the world’s third largest exporter of oil, after Saudi Arabia and Russia. But how can Norway save this wealth for future generations?
3/28/2006 :: The answer: Funneling the revenues into The Norwegian Government Pension Fund. Currently the fund receives attention not only because it is one of the largest retirement funds in the world.
32

john z,

edinburgh 08/06/2008 06:57:37
Well done Traquir. It is just a pity that you have to do THE JOB INSTEAD OF THE PAID JOURNALISTS at the Scotsman and Herald.

Why are the Scottish media behaving like communist pravda?? If I had the cash, I'd buy one of them, and let it actually report the news, not just pro-unionist propaganda.

Memo to the London Mayor: It's about the oil, stupid.
33

JT,

08/06/2008 07:16:50
It was only a matter of time when Boris had a go at us from the ivory tower. Like most of Londoners they dont give a dam about anywhere or anyone else and are so insecure that they purge anything outside the M25. Boris should stick to the comedy. Comments like this will add fuel to the independence fire. Its simple for Boris and all these people who believe we are sponging off the state, we stop paying money into the purse, you stop taking it for the olympics and let you get on with it.
34

eric,

08/06/2008 07:29:31
Who,Well whoever he is forgets that londoners and S,E actually get more per head per person than Scotland,and N,I gets most,dont forget to mention london games is being subbed by lotto and guess who spends most on that,errrm.oh and where does londons oil come from silly little man from a very dirty city.
35

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 08/06/2008 07:30:18
In many free market economies there are restrictions on the foreign ownership of news media.

You can not have a Newspaper or Broacast License in Canada or the United States unless the majority of shares are owned by a citizen of that country.

Perhaps when Scotland becomes independent we can have similar laws to prevent our media and public debate from being hijacked by foreign interests.
36

fife runner,

08/06/2008 07:37:18
so billions spent on new Jubilee Line and now the olympics is not subsidy?
37

JayJay,

Right here 08/06/2008 08:24:41
There is little point attempting to persuade the likes of Boris that the view of London as centre of the universe is flawed. Creating envy in London over perceived unfair distribution of UK taxes to the region presumably is designed to take Londoners eye off the ball.
Perhaps they might start asking questions about the "financial powerhouse" of the City. A place where hedge fund managers and investment bankers indulge in an orgy of greed, paying themselves billions in bonuses, then run cap in hand to the Treasury when the world they created blows up in their faces.
In Boris's crazed world, where the gospel "truth" of the Telegraph and Evening Standard is all you can trust to fire up the handful of braincells you own, things like Crossrail (£16bn plus), the Olympics (probably £20bn) and the Jubile Line (£5bn plus) are "national" projects and absolutely not London subsidies.
These cretins should try driving up here on our sumptuous and tree lined "motorways" before allowing their belly to rumble. Subsidies? There must be a black hole over Glasgow because I don't see any dosh flying through my letter box.
38

darrener,

Glasgow 08/06/2008 08:56:41
Mayor of the Subsidy Junkies criticises Scotland.

Oh, the irony.
39

darrener,

Glasgow 08/06/2008 09:00:10
Public spending per head

London £9748
Scotland £9631

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/nov/03/scotland.devolution


The man is a fool, but then we knew that already.
40

Son of Loki,

The Dark Side 08/06/2008 09:08:53
n a newspaper interview yesterday, Johnson said of residents of London and the south-east: "They're forking out for things in Scotland and you've got Scottish MPs, the Prime Minister and Chancellor, who are treating the country in an inequitable way."

I lived and worked in London for a year. The poulation of the south east of engerland has no knowledge of anything north of the Watford Gap. In fact they have no knowledge of anything that isn't home counties related.

If the mayor of London isn't happy because he thinks the Engish subsidise the Scots when in actual fact it is the other way around, what is he going to do about it?

Whatever mad Boris does I'm sure it will be received as derisively as what he says if anyone can make him out!

Stay alive people, it's the only way to live

Loki Jnr
41

Upbeat,

08/06/2008 09:15:12
Typical journalese being used to spin a story out of a casual remark.

The quote attributed to Boris Johnson was a real one. It apeared in the Daily Telegraph yesterday. The context in which it is now being " spun" is dishonest.

Mr Johnson simply voiced his opinion cocenring the attitude he notices among many Lomdoners towards Scotland and the Scottish MP's that sit at the head of the Government.

Mr Johnson has not claimed anywhere that this is his personal opinion.

The Scotsman editors should recognise the distinction bewteen these two positions, and wake up. There is no need to create a dishonest story in this way.
42

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 08/06/2008 09:16:34
Unfortunately, Boris Johnson is a garullous embarrassment for the Tories, and a godsend for the Opposition parties, especially the Scottish Nationalists!

Every time he fails to engage his brain before opening his mouth the results are usually comically disasterous
but it's fairly obvious that he likes nothing better than to cultivate the persona of a likeable bufoon!

However, his present outburst may have more to do with distracting the media from the the fact that widespread SLEAZE has once again raised its ugly head in the Conservative Party?
43

Upbeat,

08/06/2008 09:19:56
Notice how many of the posts above have no idea what the Scotsman is refering to at all,. Few who have been so vociferous above appear to have read the Telegraph article at all. Instead they are attacking Boris Johnson here in this thread because the Scotsman has given them leave to by implying that they should ...! How blinkered is that ?
44

­­­,

08/06/2008 09:22:18
#41 JayJay, - "handful of braincells"

Didn't you read posts #23 and #24?
45

Kenny A,

08/06/2008 09:24:50
46

Good point but his timing is superb in thr fact that the poice are investigating a number of cases in relation to innapropriate spending by the mayors office. Fair enough it was in Livingstones time but it was money squandered to seriously obscure and pointless organisations. Oh by the way it was tax payers money so that means a chunk of it would have come from Scotland.

He is not a stupid man but I am delighted at the way he continues to put his foot in it. Makes the Tories look stupid, out of touch and biast and keeps the legacy and memory of Thatcher alive.

Following his comments he has reduced the Tories chances in Scotland which were minimal anyway. He is realy a fool as he has exposed the myth of London subsidising everyone again when the are big style subsidy grabbers.

Cheered me up did this. Looking forward to the next blunder.
46

Mike555,

08/06/2008 09:28:23
Pity Thickwit Boris does not understand how Scotland's oil has kept UK Plc afloat for the last 35 years. He should just shut up now and get on with the job of running London.
47

Ananurhing,

08/06/2008 09:30:44
Wondered how long it would take the most powerful Tory in the UK to have a pop at the Jocks! And before an election too. Well done Boris! Cameron must be squirming. It was only a matter of time before his Mayoral loose canon went off.
However, who cares! This is just smoke and mirrors from the Hootsman on Sunday.

Applause for Traquair!
Superb posts on the REAL story of the week/ century!
I thought McCrone was very coy on the programme regarding his input in the 70's. Wonder why? In his report, he states regarding the potential of massive oil revenues that " Thankfully, the public are unaware".
So between his coyness on TV, and his timing in flagging up his hidden "oil fund" report, we have to wonder, has he had a change of heart? I doubt it.
Maybe he's aware that his McCrone report is about to become a major issue, and is trying to re-assert some credibility in anticipation! When will we see his "oil fund" report?
The Scottish media should be ashamed of themselves smothering this story. COMPRADORS the lot of them!
MacCrompradors even! Hang your heads alongside your credibility! You're a disgrace!
48

sm753,

08/06/2008 09:43:09
Dear "Traquir" of "Alba" (where is that, by the way? a village, or the name of your house?)

You seem awfully upset that the press haven't been reporting that "North Sea oil will last
for another half century".

Has it occurred to you that this is because _this is not news?_

Anyone who knows anything about the subject knows that the North Sea will still be producing oil and gas in 2058.

How much? Between 1 and 5% of current levels.

Big deal.
49

Upbeat,

08/06/2008 09:52:57
# 49

You may wait days , you may wait weeks you know that.

What we need to be sure about is that the stories newspapers publish are truth based and never "spun" inuendo.

The opinions of many Londoners towards Scotland is exactly what Mr Johnson claimed it to be. This is because it has suited Newspapers and a certain political party in Scotland to create a feeling of distrust between the two areas of Britain. This hard done by feeling can be built up by Journalists because it sells newspapers. The truth is out there somewhere, unfortunately the Truth is not very important in the eyes of today's celebrity era of self seeking journalistic hacks..
50

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 08/06/2008 09:54:04
Monetary reform sounds a very worthy but boring read compared to any sex, slease, and football elsewhere in the paper. Think again. We lurch into Economic duress
- Enslavement by debt - Sources of terrorism - The single currency - World banking - Interest rates
- The truth about money.

"The trouble with money is, that money is not really money." - Eddie George.

And that's about as much as the Bank of England will tell you about its workings. All else is the secretest of official secrets.

Whoever controls the currency of a nation controls that nation. Pretty much. So Scots could devolve away like demons and even gain full off-shore terretorial rights. But without our own currency and knowing how to manage it oil money will not (much) be spent on scottish infrastructure.
51

Janis B,

london 08/06/2008 09:58:41

Pleased & delighted as I am to see Boris making a gaffe & lots more to come I hope, of course Scotland is not subsidised by London, but then London is not subsidised by the rest of UK.

The usual comments, Cross Rail, Jubilee Line etc. etc. All necessary to keep London as the most productive Financial Centre of World, which is just one of the reasons why London more than pays it's way. If it didn't you would have a legit reason to complain.

Edinburgh Trams, a new Forth Bridge , the Scottish Parliament House reasons for keeping Edinburgh ahead as a successful capital of Scotland? Is Glasgow moaning about this, does Edinburgh pays it's way? Just interested.
52

A. Puschkin,

Edinburgh 08/06/2008 10:04:44


Dear Boris

Did you ever learn of the swiping of Welsh water which meant the building of a massive dam in Wales... for Liverpool's water supply? Payment to wales + ?

and

You must have heard of the profits from Scotlands Oil going into UK coffers ?

if not... go and do your homework!

53

Ananurhing,

08/06/2008 10:07:46
Boris has just been on TV, prattling on about a sci fi story in a debate about terrorism.
A link between42 days, and 42 being the answer to life the universe and everything!!!!!!!!!!!!
" The erm..erm....home office churning out..erm....meaningless....erm....erm."
Cutting wit and incisive insight? Aye right Boris!

The man looks and sounds like he's permanently stoned!
Cameron....What have you done? This'll bite you on the bum.....chum!
54

Hibee The Great,

Easter road 08/06/2008 10:10:22
Bungling Boris the Buffoon
Of course we all knew that already, what a tragedy, what an excuse and a sad effort of Lord Mayor.
How on earth the numpties in London voted for clown is well beyond my imagination.
The good old clean Tories, yep, no less than 2 financial scandals in the last week.
Lets' hope the public get wise to this shower of con artists before it's too late.
David Cameron on the bones of his backside not long ago, and then all of a sudden, he is the great savior, I think not.
3 to 4 million unemployed, 17% interest rates, bring it on?
A party of clowns that will rip the UK off line their own pockets, of course they would not be able to sell of the countries silverware as they did that the last time they were in office.
55

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 08/06/2008 10:15:54
Re Janis B: "All necessary to keep London as the most productive Financial Centre of World..."

Financial centres don't produce wealth, they only acquire wealth that has been produced elsewhere.

The SNP should base its next PPB on making clear to people the remaining extent of Scotland's oil, the way that the UK has been squandering the revenues for over thirty years, and the way that the pro-UK press has tried to hide these things from public knowledge.
56

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 08/06/2008 10:20:12
Traquir, there is more to this business of North Sea oil than just spinelessness on the part of the Scottish media. I refuse to believe that the entire Scottish journalist profession is as supine as all that. You may have noted that the news of the oil reserves lasting for another half century is being openly publicised all over England, while the same story is clearly being actively suppressed in Scotland.

This is politics, not journalism. With trouble looming at Westminster and increasing signs of disintegration in England, the good news is obviously intended to reassure the English that everything in the economic garden is lovely, while at the same time avoiding adding any further fuel to the nationalist fire in Scotland.

Remember the UK-wide clampdown on Niall Aslen's forensic dissection of the government's GERS report, when he revealed that, far from Scotland being £11,000m in the red in its balance of payments with England and the rest of the UK, it was actually £9,000m in surplus. If I were in power in London I would no doubt be tempted to do the same, but I would not expect it to go unopposed. Just don't give me any nonsense about what a wonderful free press we have in our country.

57

Janis B,

london 08/06/2008 10:23:56

Colin Wilson @ 60 ..... Oil is finite. Financial centres may be seen as immoral, but nevertheless the infrastructure, the skills , the traditions of successful FC's may not be. Silly to knock it.
58

Ananurhing,

08/06/2008 10:34:12
#61 Dr James Wilkie

Well said. So much for the "protocol" of the 4th Estate!

Any sleuths out there got the lowdown on Johnstone Press?
59

bluehead,

edinburgh 08/06/2008 10:38:20
the london people will rue the day they voted boris to be mayor,one look at him should have been enough
60

Uilleam Mor,

Luss 08/06/2008 10:50:15
From these comments it is crystal clear that the Tories still consider the Scots to be subsidy junkies at the expense of Londoners.

And all this from a man who has just secured for the Tories the high profile London mayorship,and from a party who wants to govern all of Britain with respect.

If such a high profile Tory can utter in public such anti Scottish rhetoric then we know only too well what they will be thinking in private.

Time to rid ourselves of the London colonial masterclass, and like Gordon Brown, I suspect Johnston celebrates his Britishness!

Let them get on with it.
61

Ananurhing,

08/06/2008 10:55:32
#64 bluehead

I don't know if they will. All he has to do is a bit of "let's stir up the oiks" rabble rousing, wave the St. George's Cross occasionaly, sound populist, and hope it chimes with the mood in England at the moment.

I don't know if it does or not. I don't live there.
Interesting times!


62

David Nisbet,

Kirkintilloch 08/06/2008 11:06:59
Shame, I quite liked Boris.
63

Ananurhing,

08/06/2008 11:18:41
#65 Meths

Many thanks. Like I said, interesting times.
I wonder what the leanings of the controlling family are, and will the editorial shenanigans of this paper change when they relinquish overall control.

Or more simply, is there any hope for the Hootsman!
I hope so. I used to like it. A long time ago.

Johnstone Press's " Bury Free Press " says it all for me. Now there's a mission statement!
64

jerrymanders,

Soap Box City 08/06/2008 11:22:01
#56

It may well be a great financial centre but that money does not belong to London. It is the wealth of the nation, or are you saying that all the oil money belongs to London? The Goverment "handouts" do not belong to London. The money in the Bank of England does not belong to London. You cannot attribute money that is moved on the Stock Exchange as being London's. Using your Londoner's inept and totally biased method of calculating per capita income/expenditure there are only 4 or 5 counties in England that are in the black. Guess what? They are all centred around London! The rest (including the rest of England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland) are in the red! Stick the Stock Exchange in Inverness and by heck see how you would like it.
65

Mist001,

Marseille 08/06/2008 11:23:13
If you work in central London, you get the 'London Weighting Allowance' which boosts your wages to at least 20 per cent of the rest of the UK. Now, that's a subsidy paid for by the whole of the UK, not just Scotland!

Since Edinburgh is the 2nd most expensive city in the UK in which to live and work, then why doesn't the weighting allowance apply there?

No 60: Are you THE Colin Wilson? I'm not being sarcastic, but I'm asking because if you are, I'm a huge admirer of your work. If not, really, I don't mean any offence to you.

And btw, I read a lot of newspapers online, I don't speak French and often it's the only communication I have with the outside world. I see quite a lot of Johnstone Press publications so I'd like to ask, does anyone know when the Barclay Brothers became Johnstone Press?

Michael.
66

Scotsgait - The Independent Portal to Scotland,

On the web 08/06/2008 11:24:21
Boris would be well advised to read "Taken for Granted: Why Britain needs a fair deal for the South East", a research report by Local Government Futures Ltd and Oxford Economics Ltd which was published last September on behalf of local authorities in the SE of England.

http://www.oef.com/Free/pdfs/finance_report(oct07).pdf

The results, which are summarised at http://www.scotsgait.co.uk/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,153/ , show that Scotland has the lowest per capita fiscal deficit out of all four home countries.
67

Lederblix,

08/06/2008 11:27:27
Quote from the Herald last November (David Leask): Myth 1: Scots get more public cash than anyone else
Fact: Scotland, with its many remote areas and pockets of deprivation, certainly has hefty public spending by any standards. But the highest? It is not even close.
That honour, by a considerable margin, goes to Northern Ireland. Official public expenditure there is measured at £10,271 per head at the last full count in 2005-06. The social and economic legacy of 30 years of civil strife means that the province needs more support than any other part of the UK.
Next up in Britain's regional league table of state spending is London. The government, in all its guises, dished out £9748 for every man, woman and child there, not least because of its armies of civil servants and creaking, expensive and essential transport infrastructure.
Next we come to Scotland, which edges ahead of the north-east of England to take third place in the spending stakes. Scots account for an average of £9631 in state expenditure all kinds, vastly more than non-metropolitan counties of the south-east and east of England. There, state spending averages out at just £7544 and £7256 respectively per head, less than anywhere else.
68

MoragfraeEdinburgh,

Edinburgh 08/06/2008 11:37:59
71# Don't know if you are joking or not but Johnstone Press has been around for donkey's years in Scotland and has no connection with the Barclays. The Barclays sold the Scotsman to JP about 3 years ago if my memory serves me right.
69

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 08/06/2008 11:59:59
Re #71 : I'm not that Colin Wilson. I've only written one book; and he lives in Cornwall, at the other end of Britain.
70

jkr,

Lochwinnoch Greater Glasgow 08/06/2008 12:04:58
Devolution without tax-raising powers is always going to be a problem and this was the big mistake the UK Labour government made when it gave Scotland devolution in 1997. They call it a Parliament. Is there any other country in the world that has a 'Parliament' that does'nt raise taxes? I don't think so. Labour obviously thought there would always be a labour majority in Scotland and would do what it was told by Westminster. It has not quite worked out like that!

The sooner the Scottish Parliament has proper tax powers, and thus accountability, the better. It would help to stop unfair criticism from English MPs and the English public at large.
71

Bejjy,

08/06/2008 12:11:54
At least Boris is good for a laugh unlike the dismal Brown and his ilk.
72

Americanbob,

Edinburgh 08/06/2008 12:12:57
Surely all these posts are missing the point - Boris was NOT SUPPOSED TO WIN. The Conservative party put forward the biggest clown they had in the hope that Livingston would win again and they could then continue to point out what a mess he and the Labour party were making of Londonshire thus paving the way for a victory for them at the next General Election.
Unfortunately the plans of mice and men.....
Now they don't know how to shut him up!
73

Ananurhing,

08/06/2008 12:13:47
#71 mist
The Barclays went off to fight for independence.
To free their island fortress of Brecou from the shackles of Sark.
74

David MacVicar,

web 08/06/2008 12:19:06
Margo MacDonald - todays Sunday post.

Bittersweet to hear Benn admit oil was squandered

Talk about deja vu! Last week found me checking myself in the mirror to make sure I wasn’t decked out in a crocheted waistcoat, bopping to Mud, Slade or some other ’70s band.

Oil was once again making the news, gushing from every front page and radio phone-in, the soundbites spun by the political parties had hardly changed by a syllable and Scots were still undecided over which lot to believe.

As I write this, oil has reached $139 a barrel.

Some industry experts think it could climb to $200 and a couple of weeks ago a leading company in financial analysis, Grant Thornton, estimated that at a much lower price per barrel, Scotland would have an annual £6 billion surplus, if we were independent and Holyrood rather than Westminster ran our economy.

Reaction

Some phone-in callers were having none of that. Reaction from the SNP’s opponents echoed down the three decades since oil was discovered in that section of the North Sea under the jurisdiction of Scots Law.

In the ’70s, as was finally confirmed by the, until recently, secret Cabinet papers of the Wilson, Callaghan and Thatcher governments, Scots were stiffed by all three over oil. Government ministers lied so as to diminish hopes for a transformation of the Scottish economy fuelled by “black gold”. I well remember the candidate in the Stirling Burghs by-election pouring scorn on the idea and describing it as “pie in the sky”.

That candidate went on to have a successful Westminster career, while Scots let their future prospects trickle away. They swallowed the line that oil would have run out by now — experts agree there’s almost as much left as has been depleted.

Some of last week’s phone-in callers were opposed to Scotland having sovereign powers over oil, like Lottery winners who refuse their multi-million pound prize on the grounds they’ll never be as lucky again.

Perversity

Such perversi
75

David MacVicar,

web 08/06/2008 12:19:46
Contd.
Such perversity to accept the facts indicate either total timidity or, more likely, too strong an attachment to the unionist party of their choice to support a policy of the SNP.

That was the tragedy of the ’70s — the lowering of Scottish self-belief that flowed from the deliberate under-estimation of the quantity of oil and gas in the Scottish sector by the unionist parties. They short-sightedly defended their party interests rather than make common cause with nationalists to demand what even then was called an Oil Fund.

The party propaganda machines belittled Scots like me who argued for a policy like Norway’s, and warned that any Westminster chancellor, instead, would use oil taxes for current spending, not as resources for a rainy day or investment money.

It was bittersweet, after 30 years, to hear the then Minister for Energy, Tony Benn, admit that oil was squandered.

Had Labour, Tory and Lib Dems not been so keen to see off the SNP, they could probably have squeezed out of Westminster an Oil Investment Fund that would have provided the capital for upgrading the A9, improving transport links to the Borders and the South-West, for example.

Windfall

But there’ll be nothing sweet about our second chance to transform Scotland’s infrastructure if we allow Westminster to siphon off the windfall of billions of pounds that should, for starters, represent payment for a new crossing over the Forth and the long-overdue upgrade of the M8 and A9.

According to the dim cabinet minister for oil, it’s just selfish for Scots to want to call the shots. This card was also played 30 years ago — since then, leaving oil to Westminster has produced perpetual low growth in the Scottish economy and a quarter of Scots children born into poverty.
76

David MacVicar,

web 08/06/2008 12:26:35
Contd. Comment.

Margo has written comment on what is the real situation over oil.

Scots who are still trying to justify we stay in a Union that rips us off and is only out to deceive are out and out Quislings. It is these Scots who have damaged and are damaging out childrens future prospects and best interests.

Contemporary Cringing Unionist Scots are beneath contempt because the truth of deception is there for all to see. No excuses. Unionist Scots are nowadays nothing but collaborators for a foreign state working to undermine our entire country.
77

Mist001,

Marseille 08/06/2008 12:31:01
No 77: As I said, no offence was intended by my question, so thanks for clearing that up. I wish you well with your book (which I know nothing about!). I don't want to stray off topic too much, but is it available on Amazon or somewhere similar?

Michael.
78

Iain's,

Barcelona 08/06/2008 12:31:40
No surprise here really.

When I lived in London, most Londoners believed this.

Boris is a Tory after all and if the Londoners hear the story enough times, they will blame Brown and vote him out. Just like Boris' win against Livingston.
79

Mist001,

Marseille 08/06/2008 12:36:35
No 76:

No, I wasn't joking, it's just that recently I've seen Johnstone Press cropping up more and more. I'm not planning a takeover or anything, I was just curious, so thanks for the info.

Michael.
80

­­­,

extract from the unionist ; Book of Truth 08/06/2008 12:39:00
­








­








THE END.
81

Mist001,

Marseille 08/06/2008 12:39:53
No 86:

Brown can't be voted out, since he wasn't voted in, in the first place.

Which took the UK into very dark waters politically IMO.

That's why I support an independent Scotland.

Michael.
82

Sir Minty Moonbeams, Casino Royale,

08/06/2008 13:05:03
Quite right Boris.
83

Richard M,

Scottish Raj 08/06/2008 13:06:14
I suppose you could make the argument that if Scotland should keep the oil revenue, London (which has a greater population) should keep the revenue from the financial sector. As well as seeing the rebirth of smaller nations, we are also seeing a trend back towards City-states
84

Media 1,

cape town 08/06/2008 13:07:46
I dont need Boris to tell me that Scotland has a lot to thank England for, I already know that without England, Scotland could well be f@cked.
Yes we do have oil, but so to does Nigeria.
Boris isnt wrong, but as a politician he will need to remember that telling the truth will ALWAYS be clasified as an outburst, because sensitive people cannot handle the truth.
85

Janis B,

london 08/06/2008 13:13:53

Post 70. The BOE reserves, like North Oil revenues, both belong to the UK. Where did I say otherwise?

Financial Centres are global/international, my post was to justify expenditure on London's infra-structure to support the City of London Financial Centre. £80bn generated yearly, 18bn of that to rest of UK. Does this endorse London as paying it's own way?

Inverness, lovely setting that it has.....I don't think so!
86

John S,

08/06/2008 13:16:13
#83/84 and 85, David MacVicar: Well written.
#92 Yes we do have oil,but so does Norway.
Norwegian oil (Government Pension Fund) fund - Initial investment of £174m in 1990 and now £196bn - March 2008.This equivalent to £41,000 for every person living in Norway (pop 4.7m).
I already know that without England, Scotland could well be f@cked. Thanks now I understand this why the UK (English dominated)Parliament is desperate to keep Scotland within the UK to stop Scotland getting f@cked ?

87

fresian,

Dubai 08/06/2008 13:18:10
I was watching "Wind in the Willows the other day and couldn't help notice the similarity of Mr Toad to Boris Johnston. Poop Poop!!
88

­­­,

scotalands's oil fund ; deposits 1974 - Present 08/06/2008 13:32:07
­






























Total :
.............£0.00 Billion.
89

The Answer,

Glasgow 08/06/2008 13:39:55
What is the snp government going to do about those 10,000 scotch males, who have become unemployed since the snp landslide victory ?
90

The Answer,

Glasgow 08/06/2008 13:42:36
London still top of Euro league!

Last year, 305 foreign firms invested in London, almost four times as many as were attracted by the next most popular part of Britain, the south-east (83). Scotland was next with 69.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/jun/05/investing.economics

91

Conan the Librarian™,

08/06/2008 13:46:09
An interesting site;

http://souralba.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/ex-scotsman-editor-on-demise-of-scottish-papers
92

The Answer,

Glasgow 08/06/2008 13:55:20
#104

where are your facts, ohhh, your scotch, you just make them up as you please.