Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

The hunt is On.
Sponsored by
The hunt is On.
Can you track down Scotland's wildest beastie?
 
 
Sunday, 30th November 2008 Change Date

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the Scotland On Sunday site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Sign In
Register

Question of the week



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 20 April 2008
WELCOME to Scotland on Sunday's online feature, Question of the Week.
Each week we ask the readers of scotlandonsunday.com for their views on a burning issue from the past seven days. The best responses may be reproduced on the Online Forum page in Sunday's print edition of the newspaper on April 27th.

If you wish to appear in Scotland on Sunday, then, along with your response, please leave a first name and surname, as well as your location - eg Tom Smith, Edinburgh. We welcome all comments.

The question this week is...

Lawyers are threatening industrial action over legal aid cuts. Are their grievances justified or are they just being greedy?



The full article contains 115 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 April 2008 12:45 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

Sara Matheson,

Glasgow 25/04/2008 10:27:25
The background is that there has been no rise in the current fixed fee for summary criminal cases since its inception in 1999. The current payment per case was introduced in 1999 and was set at 58% of the average case cost of the 1998 figure. There has been no rise in the summary criminal legal aid fee since its inception. That is 10 years without a pay rise. The current proposals equate to a pay cut. Legal aid is a public service, highly necessary to assist the vulnerable and disadvantaged. These proposed cuts are likely to significantly affect their access to justice. Lawyers grievances are justified.
2

John Robinson,

on the jury 25/04/2008 14:51:17
If the current rate was set in 1999 maybe it's time have another look at the whole legal system. Those who need free legal representation should have access to it, but lawyers have a reputation (whether deserved or not) for exploiting legal aid ... and as for not getting a pay rise in 10 years, show me a poor lawyer and I'll be with you on the picket line, though I can't imagine many of them risking the sack.
3

Tina McGreevy,

Glasgow 25/04/2008 15:10:01
John Robinson might like to know that we are not permitted to strike so it is not a question of lawyers not risking the sack. We risk being struck off, de-registered and held in contempt of court. And that's just for starters.

The profession knows that it will struggle to get public support because people think of lawyers as "fat cats" and associate criminal lawyers too closely with their clients, always assuming that we are trying to "get them off".

The profession enjoys no respect or support from the public or the government and this is precisely why the government has been able to treat us so badly. Lawyers, contrary to public opinion, are hard-working, ethical, and conscientious and have put the needs of the public and the court before their own interests for too long. It is time for the profession to stand up and be heard.

One cannot open the paper without reading of some group of workers going on strike. Doctors, teachers, police, oil plant workers ... the public understands the predicament these people find themselves in. Why then, is there no support for a profession which represents and gives a voice to the poorest and most vulnerable in our society?

If nurses or post men were not given a rise in pay in line with inflation for 9 years and were then asked to take a pay cut (while being asked to assume more responsibility with every Act of Parliament passed) there would be riots in the streets.

If we cannot count on the support of the public, surely the least we can ask is that we are not vilified for exerting our rights to some sort of industrial action?
4

Brother Walfrid,

25/04/2008 20:17:44
Whilst the Law Society would no doubt claim to have done its best in representing solicitors' interests in discussions with the executive, the perception is that more might have been achieved had criminal defence solicitors formed themselves into a distinct professional body, and simply divorced themselves from the law society altogether.

Very difficult to achieve and would probably require an Act of Parliament, but if the will to achieve that was strong enough, I believe that it could be done.

I think eventually solicitors dealing in criminal work will come to realise that their best interests lie away from The Law Society. I'm sure it is a far less ambitious project than that of Oliver Cromwell.
5

Brian Lanigan,

Glasgow 26/04/2008 18:29:51
Your question of the week is disappointing and plainly shows that, sadly along with the general public, you simply haven't grasped the seriousness of what is happening. How can lawyers be portrayed as being greedy in this situation other than by way of stereo-typical knee jerk reaction. They are not asking for a rise, they are opposing cuts to a public service, where payments have not been increased since the last cuts in 1999, and now a further six per cent is to be lopped off. It's like saying to doctors and nurses 'we propose to treat more patients and to fund it we're cutting your wages'.
Wake up Scotland! Your human rights are under attack. Soon there will be no independent criminal defence bar and our legal system, once the envy of the world, and of which we were justifiably proud, is in every way being weakened by the Scottish Government's proposals.

Who would have thought that the first SNP administration would preside over it's demise
6

freethekillie2,

Kilmarnock 27/04/2008 11:48:53
The Scottish legal system needs updated to modern times.
why do people still think justice has been done only to find out years later that evidence was not given to the trial lawyer.
lawyers will not be able to do the job asked of them if
the resources are not there.

there are many issues about justice including the sanctions of disclosure it is still not sorted out in far to many cases .

thank you Ms McGreevy for signing the below petition.
disclosure is a must for truth, fairness, and justice.
if all value a system then all should want a system that works.

http://gopetition.com/petitions/grant-disclosure-to-scottish-defendants.html

http://www.justice4killie2.blogspot.com/



7

Angela Devine,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 20:36:50
For those of you, like John, who think all lawyers are rich and exploit legal aid, let me explain a few things.

£500 is the payment lawyers receive in summary criminal cases. These cases are heard in both the District and Sheriff courts. That fee includes meetings with your client, all preparation including taking witness statements and representation at court including conducting a trial. In more serious cases like rape and murder, lawyers are paid just over £40 per hour. The legal aid board examine all files and any expert reports etc require sanction, thus, there is no possibibility of "exploiting legal aid."

Only 2 weeks ago I heard of a very experienced solicitor who worked out that he was actually paid below the minimum wage.

For many years there have been very few solicitors entering criminal law or doing legal aid work. All law students are well aware how hard they would have to work for very little in return. One cannot blame them when after many years of study and with a great deal of debt, simply to earn the minimum wage.

I am no longer a criminal solicitor however I am terrified of these proposed cuts. If these proposals go ahead not only will there be no new solicitors conducting legal aid work but law firms will close and jobs will be lost. That means no solicitors.

You may think that doesn't concern you. well, if you think you'll never need a good solicitor to represent you, think again.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.....whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly. Martin Luther King.
8

open,

west coast 06/05/2008 04:47:23
Our group more than most know the depths our legal system has sunk due to the complete lack of justice in Scottish courts.Legal Aid is nothing less than a racket, a lawyers gravy train and our group in evidence to the Scottish Parliament have asked for the Legal Aid board, staffed by lawyers for lawyers to be investigated and scrapped.

No where in Scotland is there a massive public fund that is used in a free for all by a pecking order of law firms, NOT dependent on quality and service, but who can thieve as many properties and destroy the lives of anyone touched by a legal aid funded lawyer in Scotland's CIVIL courts that can stretch out for 10 years or more.

Who in their right mind would fund a court action for 10 or even 20 years with their own cash ?
If you end up at the receiving end of a lawyer on legal aid you can guarantee a myriad of actions on a daily or weekly basis that is used to persecute and terrorize the victim who will ultimately be made homeless and penniless.That to fund this enormous EVIL racket that many lawyers instigate sanctioned by both the Legal Aid Board and Law Society of Scotland.

Scotlands legal system operated by a tyranny reminiscent of the medieval star chambers that fell due to the complete failure of due process.Most victims not on legal aid usually left unrepresented to ensure the complete theft of ALL their worldly possessions but especially their children.

If there is ONE thing that proves Scotland still remains class ridden it is the ease with which a legal aid funded lawyer can destroy the lives of anyone they touch and something we have campaigned for many years to expose and fight against.

One case which sums up the degree to which this racket has caused enormous harm and not as suggested ONLY carried out by ONE lawyer but many was exposed in the Scotsman some time ago.

Quote
"A SOLICITOR "embellished" claims for legal aid in child welfare cases with false details of sex abuse to fraudulently obtain nearl
9

open,

west coast 06/05/2008 04:51:07
ly £2 million, The Scotsman can reveal. In Scotland's biggest-ever legal aid fraud, James Muir made false claims for public money in hundreds of child protection cases over seven years. Muir, who kept a low profile in the profession but was regarded as one of the country's most dedicated and experienced specialist child welfare lawyers, committed suicide after the police began investigating."

It was located at
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=3464991
before being removed.

Can anyone imagine being at the receiving end of some of the most disgusting allegations while there lives were being destroyed and their assets frittered away?
It is a disgrace none of the organisations charged with ensuring this did not happen turned a blind eye for so long and allowed so many families to be utterly destroyed by vicious rumours that led to the widespread abuse of legal aid.

Join the growing resistance movement against corruption and tyranny.

LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS

Masonic judges OUT Juries IN
10

open,

west coast 06/05/2008 05:04:58
Legal aid winners

DONALD Findlay, QC, has topped the list for legal aid payments to advocates, for the second year in a row, receiving £358,400 last year.

The Glasgow-based law firm Ross Harper topped the solicitors' list, also for the second year in a row, at £1.732 million - and 11 other firms of solicitors were paid more than £1 million each. Top-earning solicitor advocate was Iain Paterson of Paterson Bell Solicitors, with £219,300.

Ten advocates each earned more than £200,000 in 2006-7. They are Donald Findlay QC (£358,400), Ian Duguid QC (£321,600), Edgar Prais QC (£272,500), Mhairi Richards QC (£269,800), Paul McBride QC (£237,800), Gordon Jackson (£228,500), Derek Ogg QC (£213,300), Lorenzo Alonzi (£213,100), Ronaldo Renucci (£212,100) and Thomas Ross (£208,600).
11

open,

west coast 06/05/2008 05:28:08
Biggest legal aid fraud repaid
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7023699.stm

£1.1m earnings in a year for top legal aid barrister
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=464275&in_page_id=1770

£500,000 lawyer tops legal aid fatcat league
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=463504&in_page_id=1770

Lawyer banned from legal aid work
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6338471.stm

Scotlands Legal aid bill increases to £150m
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7022351.stm

20 lawyers convicted of defrauding Legal Aid
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3965119.stm

Solicitor facing a total of 82 charges in an alleged £325,000 legal aid fraud
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2119923.stm

Solicitors' clerk convicted for his part in a massive legal aid fraud
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4361019.stm

Legal aid bill 'highest in world'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7009686.stm

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
RSS Feed of this article's comments
Delivery formats: RSS, Atom, Javascript & Email
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.