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Tug-of-war over Tartan Army slogan

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Published Date: 05 April 2009
OVER the centuries they have faced down countless enemies in campaigns across the globe.
But now the British Army has been forced to beat a hasty retreat after crossing swords with Scotland's indefatigable sporran legion of football fans.

The military has unveiled the slogan "Join the real Tartan Army" in a bid to boost recruitment no
rth of the border.

But the controversial attempt to annex the nickname, which has been proudly adopted by followers of the national team for generations, has provoked an angry counter-attack.

Soccer fans, politicians and even the British Legion have condemned the marketing campaign, which is aimed squarely at young sports fans, as inappropriate, tasteless and exploitative.

The Army insists the slogan was not meant to cause offence, but confirmed its future use would now be reviewed.

The phrase was recently emblazoned on window displays, posters and leaflets in military recruitment offices across Scotland.

The patriotic appeal was aimed at swelling the ranks of the Royal Regiment of Scotland. But Tartan Army footsoldier Iain Emerson claimed the appeal was the "height of bad taste".

He said: "The Tartan Army prides itself on promoting peace and international harmony. For our good name to be hijacked for an army recruitment campaign is just not on and will offend a lot of people.

"How would they like it if we attempted to brand ourselves as the real TA?"

The editor of the Famous Tartan Army Magazine added:

"There are serving and former servicemen and women who are proud members of the Tartan Army, but I don't think they will be impressed by this either."

Neil Griffiths, the national press officer for the Royal British Legion Scotland, felt the slogan was well-intentioned but completely misguided.

The veterans group spokesman said: "Equating the pleasures of watching international football with the very serious and dangerous profession of soldiering is just not appropriate.

"They have accidently implied that an army career is a leisure pursuit and it clearly isn't. There is world of difference between cheering on Scotland and fighting in Afghanistan and to try to draw a link between the two is unwise.

"I can't remember a previous recruitment slogan which fell so wide of the mark."

The military's choice of words was also criticised by parliamentarians.

Nationalist MSP Jamie Hepburn said: "There is only one Tartan Army, and that is the Scottish football team's travelling support, who are known around the world for their peaceful and fun-loving support of our national squad.

"Nobody doubts the commitment and bravery of Scotland's troops but joining the armed forces is a serious business and it is trivialised by this ill-advised slogan."

Green leader Patrick Harvie was equally unimpressed.

The Glasgow MSP said: "The real Tartan Army consists of people having a bit of fun and helping to give Scotland an international image which is peaceful and gregarious.

"It is dishonest for the military to take advantage of that good reputation."

Scotland's travelling supporters were briefly associated with hooliganism after hundreds of drunken fans spilled on to the pitch and trashed the Wembley goalposts following the 2-1 victory over England in 1977.

But since then they have been hailed for their exuberant but good-natured behaviour across the globe.

In 1996, the Mayor of Birmingham presented the Tartan Army with a scroll celebrating their "Outstanding conduct and friendliness" during the European Championships. At the 1998 World Cup in France, Scotland's supporters received the Per Ludos Frateritas Trophy for their "sporting spirit and conviviality", while the Belgian Olympic Committee officially honoured the sportsmanlike conduct of visiting fans in 2001.

The Army stressed the slogan was meant as a tribute to the popularity of Scotland's football supporters, but hinted that it might be not be used again in future.

Army marketing officer John Mitchell said: "Over the past few years there has been a perception of the Army being away fighting wars overseas.

"We wanted to come up with a slogan that was closer to home, that people could identify with. Our intention is to get the Army back in the mind-sets of people in communities all over the country.

"The Tartan Army is held in huge affection in Scotland, so it was almost a play on that."

But Mitchell was disappointed to learn that the message had caused disquiet in some quarters.

"People are entitled to their views, but we are just as much a part of society as the Scotland football supporters.

"It was never our intention to offend anyone or trade on the goodwill of others. This slogan is something that has been used in some promotional materials, but whether we take it further remains to be seen."

Military recruitment figures have risen dramatically across the UK since the credit crunch took hold.

Officials confirmed that numbers joining the Army, Navy and Air Force had risen by 14% in the 12 months since the economic downturn started to bite.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 04 April 2009 7:38 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: British armed forces
 
1

The Brain,

05/04/2009 00:10:01
The "real" tartan army sound like pompous sanctimonious cowards.

"We stand for peace etc." Like the real army doesn't. ffs.

It really gets up my nose when people think it's a god given right to be Scot free. It is the military that do all the hard work to ensure that continues.

Tell the peace loving message to Kenny MacAskill who was arrested for being drunk and disorderly in London during a football match trip.
2

Fifi la Bonbon,

05/04/2009 00:17:54
I don't think it's true that Kenny McAskill was actually arrested for being drunk and disorderly during that football match trip in London. I thought that he was detained by police for violent behaviour while strongly under the influence of alcohol, but that he wasn't actually arrested. I may be wrong - perhaps someone else could clarify what happened to Mr McAskill on that day.
3

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

05/04/2009 00:18:28
The british army are pompous sanctimonious cowards.
4

Curley Bill,

05/04/2009 00:20:52
You are quite correct, Fifi. The politician who was arrested for being drunk and incapable was the (ig)noble Lord George Foulkes.
5

,

05/04/2009 00:24:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
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6

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 00:56:58
This is ridiculous. This is guaranteed to generate hostility towards UK troops. Are the people who thought this up stark raving mad ?
7

Los Angeles,

05/04/2009 01:50:35

The "real" tartan army sound like pompous sanctimonious cowards. (Brainless)

How long did it take you to check the spelling of those words in a dictionary?

When doing that you ought to have checked their meaning. It might have made you hsitate about posting pompous claptrap - but not for long.
8

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 02:02:08
#1 The Brain,

How do you know that he was detained for violent behaviour?
9

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 02:06:17
#2 Fifi,

what do you mean "Scot free"? Aren't you using the term in the wrong manner?
10

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 05:52:54
#1 The Brian,

“The "real" tartan army sound like pompous sanctimonious cowards.”


Unlike you, who comes across as a terribly brave, knuckle dragging, semi-literate, crass buffoon.

11

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 06:17:36
It would appear that being associated with the “real” army can be quite lucrative, especially if you happen to be a Labour politician.


From The Guardian:
“Another cabinet minister was dragged into the row over MPs' expenses last night when it emerged Geoff Hoon, the defence secretary during the Iraq war, claimed expenses on his constituency home and rented out his London house while living throughout the conflict in a grace-and-favour flat in Whitehall.
Hoon, who is now transport secretary, lived for three-and-a-half years in Admiralty House while the London property he registered as his "main residence" was let to a private tenant. This allowed the MP for Ashfield in Nottinghamshire to claim around £50,000 in expenses for running his constituency residence, which was entered as his "second home" with the Commons authorities,”

From The Sunday Herald:

“Adam Ingram, a former Armed Forces Minister, was revealed to be making up to £170,000 from consultancy work and non-executive directorships while also drawing his MP's salary of £63,291.
One of his five outside jobs includes providing consultancy services to Argus Libya UK LLP, a firm that explores commercial opportunities in Colonel Gaddaffi's country.
Libya is considered a lucrative place for British firms following the lifting of the arms embargo.
Ingram also makes up to £55,000 advising Electronic Data Services Ltd (EDS), a Ministry of Defence contractor; around £50,000 from SignPoint Secure Ltd; and up to £25,000 from Argus Scotland Ltd.
It was also revealed last week that Ingram had failed to declare the family firm he set up which accepts his extra-parliamentary takings.
The MP was quoted as saying it was a "misunderstanding" that Adam Ingram Advisory Ltd had not been declared.”

12

Jim A,

05/04/2009 07:53:31
Scottish Regiments were wearing tartan long before the so named supporters so in effect the Scottish Regiments were the original tartan army and are more than entitled to use it.
13

TWC,

05/04/2009 08:43:02
I do not support recruitment methods used by the army in Scotland, it reminds me of a Michael Moore film where he asked all the Senators if their children wer5e in the army.

Has anyone ever looked at the stats for the number of Officers to other Ranks in the forces and what the ratio is for Scots, Irish, Welsh and English. It was always my impression that Scots got to be the other ranks.
14

lulach mac gille coemgain,

05/04/2009 08:44:40
The Real TARTAN military has in effect been disbanded to some ‘North British Division’ anyway - they are no Longer truly Scottish Army anyway!
15

,

05/04/2009 08:49:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
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16

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 09:05:17
What's wrong with "Join the British Army"?
17

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 05/04/2009 09:36:24
aye when a war looms the gov kens where to find the manpower to fill its armies
scotland thats where,i have added a link to that brave regiment the black watch,looking at the conflicts time line it appears scots were thrown in first
http://www.theblackwatch.co.uk/index/index
18

Reject London,

DUNDEE 05/04/2009 09:48:45
The so-called Tartan Army (The Army One) - is run by English silver-spoon fed Ruprts who actually look down there noses at jocks.

A cursory glance around the positions of officers, brigadiers etc etc will reveal a thin smattering of Scottish-born citizens and most likely an Englishman has been tasked to keep the jocks in line.

it really stinks ... even the Black Watch which normally had a jock in command has been 'infected'.

Despite General Jackson's attempt to destroy the Scottish Regiments through disbandment and amalgamation - their is still as strong sense of pride in Scotland's traditions - its just a shame that they cannot promote hard-working young Scots men from say Fife, Glasgow, Dundee, Perth, Aberdeen or Inverness - they all tend to be plummy-mouthed Surrey born in-breds!
19

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 05/04/2009 09:52:51
#23 its like the one about the scotsman sent into battle,he gets fed up and decides im off back hame
after running for a few hours in the dark,he hits another human,a plummy voice says ye gads how dare you hit a general
to which the scotsman say ach i must have run all the way home to scotland
20

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 10:05:02
I do not doubt that there will be many members of the military who are also members of the supporters’ Tartan Amy.

However, I feel that it is important not to confuse the football supporters with the military.

Many of my fellow fans have travelled all over the world in support of our National football team.
Some of them dressed in and acting out in what amounts to little more than a self-parody of our national characteristics.

However, it is all done somewhat tongue-in-cheek and with a view of frivolity and international fraternity.

Another important reason for this particularly public display of friendly, colourful and raucous behaviour is to differentiate ourselves from our near neighbours.

Who do you think the French or German security forces would rather be visiting in international football duties, Scotland or England?

21

Iain Mac,

05/04/2009 10:16:11
The 'British' Army has preyed on our youngsters for centuries. It should be remembered that during the Clearance, when the men of the glens were abroad fighting England's wars, their families at home were being evicted.

The unemployed and hopeless should not be used as cannonfodder in foreign wars.
22

The Brain,

05/04/2009 10:16:49
23/24 Etc

I think that is the Scottish cringe from you, no?

You see Scots doing the heavy lifting in war, you don't substantiate that at all, but none-the-less let's say they do.

Rather than view this as professionalism and excellence amongst Scots soldiers. Soldier for soldier, the British are the best soldiers in the world, ergo the Scots have the best soldiers in teh world.

But no, not you. You see Scots as worthless in every situation. I am proud as hell of the British army and Scots within that army.

Do you know any soldiers? Some of them want to see action in wars, believe it or not. That is what they trained for.

Scots soldiers rank amongst the very best in the world and cowardly cretins like yourself view them as cannon fodder.

What a dispicable cringe from the SNP.
23

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 10:19:22
27 is a shape shifting troll.
24

The Brain,

05/04/2009 10:19:45
25 Bully

Is there any thought of yours that does not have an obvious and glaring flaw?

Football hooliganism was a Scottish invention. We have Aberdeen to thank for that.

Scots have proportionally the same amount of racism and football violence as England.

Even serving justice ministers like the SNP's Kenny MacAskill have been arrested for hooliganism at football games while being part of the "tartan" army.
25

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 10:23:00
27 The Brain


I wonder what your role in the military is/was?


Were you a latrine?
26

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 10:30:19
What has happened to the post numbering?
27

The Brain,

05/04/2009 10:31:36
26

A SNP "blogger" got deleted for racist abuse. Unfortunately it happens daily.
28

,

05/04/2009 10:37:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
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29

,

05/04/2009 10:40:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
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30

The Brain,

05/04/2009 10:46:35
29 Union

That was an SNP blogger (ie you/democratic Scot) faking my login name.

If I had had that many posts deleted I would have been permanently banned.
31

Munguin,

05/04/2009 10:46:44
Army marketing officer John Mitchell said: "Over the past few years there has been a perception of the Army being away fighting wars overseas.”

So that’s only a “perception” is it? The army hasn’t really been away fighting illegal wars overseas then has it? What exactly has it been doing in Iraq and Afghanistan then?

I suppose flagging up the fact that the army actually has been fighting wars overseas and that there is a good chance you could be killed is not that good a marketing ploy. Much better leave that to associations with the tartan army and the credit crunch.

I don’t suppose it really matters anyway as Gordon Brown wants to do away with the Scottish national team in favour of a British one that can take part in the Olympics. If that goes ahead what do you think FIFA will have to say when we want our national team back? Hardly very fair is it for us to have a Scottish team when it suits and a British one when that suits.

Didn’t Greenland want a national team but FIFA told them they where part of Denmark? If we now accept that we are part of the UK and should be a part of their team how can we go back to FIFA and tell them we are not part of the UK after all?
32

,

05/04/2009 10:50:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
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33

The Brain,

05/04/2009 10:59:23
31 Munguin

Is there any thought you have that doesn't have an obvious and glaring flaw?

The afghanistan war is not illegal. Remember that two planes went into american skyscrapers? It was big news at the time. We have a military pact with the USA and as such we went to war with the country that was sponsoring those attacks.

Comprende?
34

,

05/04/2009 11:02:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
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35

Tris,

05/04/2009 11:08:44
Unbelievably stupid move from a government well known for stupidity.

It's interesting though, that the military seems to think that there is a chance that more Scots will join up if they think that they are fighting in a Scottish army as opposed to a UK one.

The military is a UK organisation, organised and run by from London. They would do better to concentrate on sorting out how it is that, while soldiers abroad were serving with substandard equipment and dreadful rations, the then secretary of state was living off the fat of the land in his grace and favour residence while renting out his London pad and claiming housing allowance on his constituency house.

What a pile of tat we have at the top. Time for a change.
36

The Brain,

05/04/2009 11:10:20
36 Union is better

You are unbelievably stupid. I didn't mention Iraq.
37

Tris,

05/04/2009 11:14:10
Brain. Is there any thought that you have that isn't regurgitated crud from Labour Party headquarters.

The Secretary General of the United Nations said it was an illegal war. So, it would seem, did the Noble Lord Goldfinger (or whatever he was called), until it was pointed out to him that continuing to hold these views would necessitate him popping down the bru and signing on.
38

Munguin,

05/04/2009 11:14:17
#35 It’s nice that you at least agree that the war we are having in Iraq is illegal. So that’s 50% illegal so far. I was not aware that the planes flown into the twin towers where Afghan or even piloted by Afghans, but you may know more about that than I do, but having read your posts I doubt it.
39

,

05/04/2009 11:17:10
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40

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 11:44:50
38 The Brain,

In the unlikely event of Scotland being drawn against Iraq in any forthcoming football competition, I think that I can speak for my fellow Tartan Army members in saying that we do not anticipate increasing the number of civilian deaths in that benighted nation.

However, we may assist in increasing the birth rate.

41

The Brain,

05/04/2009 11:52:10
42 Bully

Intelligent point, well made.

As always your posts are strenious non-seqautars whose relevance can only be found in the twilight zone.

HMS Nationalist Logic has once again had its compass scramble and was last seen sailing through the bermuda triangle.

Keep it up, I like a good laugh at a thicko.
42

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 12:04:59
43 The Brian

Thank you for your response.

However, I am only equipped with the English, Gaelic, French, German and a wee bit of Latin languages, can you translate for my benefit?

43

Munguin,

05/04/2009 12:09:52
#43 can you tell us what "strenious non-seqautars" are?

Word 2007 suggests "strenuous non-equators".

Surely someone who bangs on about intelligent posts would not make such a ludicrous typographical error?

It may be rose tinted spectacles but it seems that the biggest spectacle is you. And if you are going to call others “thicko” then perhaps you should make sure your posts make sense. Then we might not all be laughing at you.
44

Dark Lochnagar,

http://darklochnagar.blogspot.com 05/04/2009 12:29:02
#35 The people who piloted the planes into the twin towers were from Saudi Arabia not Afghanistan as is Bin Laden. So why don't we invade there. Oh yes, they've got all the oil and money. So who are the terrorists?
45

The Brain,

05/04/2009 12:37:04
45 Munguin

My post only displays bead spelling.

Your and bully's posts display no intelligence.

Naturally, as a thicko, you think spelling and knowledge are functions of intelligence. Of course that is not the case.

Rather than use facts ot information you choose to behave like a pendantic smarty-pants. A trait that is prevelant in Nationalists.

I suggest because you are a benefit claimant with no prospects in life you like to fool yourself that pointing out a spelling mistake somehow makes you superior, quite the reverse. It only highlights your inferiority.

Hope this helps.
46

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 05/04/2009 12:38:05
#46 god was giving out all the earths oils and gases etc and when he was down to 2 items oil and spuds,he asked the irish and the arabs which they wanted
murphy shouts "the spuds" when asked later why he took the spuds,he replied "ha lets see thon arabs boil and mash oil"
47

The Brain,

05/04/2009 12:51:55
Wardog

What are you doing still posting? Have you forgotten River City is on? Off you trot laddy.
48

Munguin,

05/04/2009 12:53:46
#47 Well thanks for clearing that up.
Although I am still not sure about these strenuous non-equators they sure are a problem. You sure do display bead spelling, so much so that I think you are beginning to do it on "porpoise".

So sorry you don’t think a command of your own language displays intelligence. In most respects I would agree. But bad spelling is most definitely the sign of what we both think of as a “thicko”, especially when put in a post by someone who supposedly values intelligence. At least the intelligence to recognise that they are not able to use their own language correctly and so refrain from the use of big words that they can’t spell. This ruins the meaning of your post.
49

Munguin,

05/04/2009 13:02:05
#56 is that "selling" or "spelling" this week?
50

Tris,

05/04/2009 13:06:55
#47 Brain. Whilst I'd say that there are many intelligent people who find spelling difficult, most of us with any pride in ourselves consider that spelling simple words, punctuating sensibly and using interesting and varied vocabulary are displays of intellect. That said, everyone makes typos, but a quick read through the post before you commit to print shows respect for the people who have to read what you have written.

I think it's rather a sweeping statement, by the way, that nationalist have a tendency to be pedantic smarty pants. It's also a tad foolish, when you consider some of the UK government ministers' statements.
51

The Brain,

05/04/2009 13:17:38
58 Tris

What you is quite correct when writing formal reports or communications at work.

But why on earth would I review and spell check posts on an internet forum.

I realise you do, but it's an emotional and time burdern that I'm not prepared to commit to for some throw away postings to choobs.
52

The Brain,

05/04/2009 13:19:42
Wardog

I found this in your collection also. Your wife's pretty good for an amateur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZNgqVInQGw

Very high brow indeed.
53

The Brain,

05/04/2009 13:20:35
Still, it makes me happy to know that there is someone for everyone out there.
54

Tris,

05/04/2009 13:36:33
# 61 Brain. That begs the question... why do you bother posting at all if getting it correct involves such a time and emotional burden to you?

I don't find it in the least burdensome to read through my work before I present it to possibly hundreds of people, not all of whom are "choobs". It saves me endless embarrassment (even though there are a few corkers that get through).

Anyway, this discussion on post presentation does take away attention from the monumental c**k up of the Ministry of Defence. We should just remind ourselves that we are paying their PR dept vast amounts... and this is the nonsense we are getting in return.

It's especially funny when you think that the idiot Brown is working hard to do away with the Scottish football team. Maybe once he has achieved that, there will be no other need for a Tartan Army.
55

The Ayrshire Bard,

05/04/2009 13:43:55
Lot of sad people posting here today. National Service ended almost 60 years ago and every member of the armed services is now there by choice.
Officers have always been posher than their men, but many of the upper-class accents are the offspring of Highland chiefs who choose an Eton style education for their sons. However, many of the 'posh' officers have served in the forces with distinction.
56

The Brain,

05/04/2009 13:46:42
Tris,

The "Tartan" "Army". It's not really an army, is it? It is a pretend army ergo "Join the real tartan army" is a sensible proposition.

A lot of the "tartan army" are barking mad SNP fools. They are scared of the prestige and respect commanded by the British Army.

This is a non-issue thrown around by pedantic cretins. There is no problem whatsoever in the slogan.
57

Reject London,

DUNDEE 05/04/2009 13:48:46
to comment 222

Actually it is things like YOU that are cringweworthy.

I am a PROUD SCOT . and have not a jot of interest in this fantasy called BRITAIN or BRITISHNESS.

Britain is/was and always will be in the minds of those who hark back to the days of the Empire - slavery and tiranny and feeling superior.

Send your own English kids off to get killed. Scotland does not want nor need to be twinned with a nation of lackies.
58

www.r-o-a-r.org,

Dundee 05/04/2009 13:55:37
comment 66

The slogan - who cares - but what I do object to is labelling SNP supporters barking mad.

Democracy, which I assume the British Army fights for, is about recognising what the people vote for.

In the case of Scotland, more voted for the SNP than any other party.

59

The Brain,

05/04/2009 14:01:18
68 Bone head

"In the case of Scotland, more voted for the SNP than any other party."

This is a truism.

More people also voted for parties who do not want an independent Scotland. What does that tell you?

You live in cloud cookoo land.
60

The Brain,

05/04/2009 14:09:42
71 Wardog

Are YOU suggesting that all those who voted for the SNP want independence?

You've dug yourself a hole (again). Even the days you don't dig yourself one, you always end up getting torn a new one anyway.

Pathetic reason, terrible logic. But what is really telling, is that you cannot even apply your own flawed logic and reason consistantly.

You are just plain stupid. Even if you have a flawed perception, you should still be able to apply consistatnly it to every situation that is similair.

Honestly, grow a brain.
61

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 14:20:56
You can almost smell the desperation from the nats here - they are desperate to start slavering about butcher's aprons and oppression and how 'evil' the Brits are but know from bitter experience that when they start spouting their vile extremist views support disappears like snow aff a dyke.....go on you nutty nats you now you want to....
62

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 14:24:16
73
Grow up doggy. The People of Scotland elected MSPs to represent them in Holyrood. The overwhelming majority of Scots rejected the narrow, parochial and bitter message from the SNP. The majority of the Scottish people's representatives support Calman. A small minority support the SNP independence campaign.
63

Pilrig,

Livingston 05/04/2009 14:30:40
Calman Commission - Scottish Constitutional Convention mark 2. And like mark 1 it exists as a brake on home rule aspirations
64

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 14:32:11
77
Prada Newsflash? Is that a designer newsflash?
65

Pilrig,

Livingston 05/04/2009 14:34:16
75 And of course a majority of the Scottish people's representatives voted for the Embra trams...
Nuff said.
66

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 14:46:54
82
Wardoogy's delusion:

"The game is nearing it's end."

Course it is, dear.
Like all cults the SNP fools its supporters into believing that independence is just round the corner. That's why the nats have been spouting this garbage for years...when were you claiming to be 'free' by?
67

The Brain,

05/04/2009 14:49:31
Grahamski,

Aren't you glad Wardog doesn't do the weather forecast?

Here is his logic applied to that domain.

Well, it's sunnier today than it was yesterday, hence it will be sunnier still tomorrow ergo rain has been abolished to the dustbin of history. Winter will never come again.

The man is beyond belief.
68

The Brain,

05/04/2009 15:00:08
A "socialist anarchist" you say.

Is that an oxymoron?

One of the funniest bits of graffiti I have ever seen was by an anarchist. A bit like the SNP he was thick and deluded.

He was carving on a wooden bench and bashing his gums about his political beliefs. You know the stuff "corporations are all corporationey and if it wasn't for the corporations we'd be free.." etc.

Anyhoo, D'Angelo's graffit can out as "Anarchy Rules" on this bench. Oh well.

I pointed out that, in actual fact, Monarchies Rule. He wasn;t a happy bunny. Oh well.
69

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 15:00:15
85
Hmmm...just surprised that a man of your advancing years is still so naive as to be taken in by such an infantile disorder as 'nationalim'....I suppose it's charming in a Waiting For Godot kind of way, in fact now that I come to think of it - an old hobo talking nonsense while he waits for something that'll never happen? Horribly familiar, eh?
70

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 15:04:31
Anyway must dash. The dinner won't cook itself apparently.....
71

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 05/04/2009 15:29:30
grahamski the union fool is also browns wee tool
you sir are a bloated buffoon
what is like to be one of the most hated wee men on this site
do you rise in the morning thinking today scotland tomorrow ze world
you are the type who strangle democracy,because democracy took away your favoured party in power unless you have hidden agendas and think your the reborn adolf hitler mark 2
no more mr nice guy ya
if i remember right you wouldnt even bother that falkirk is used by london to dump contaminated soil ie low radiation in falkirk
so will you just smile when the cancer clusters show up and say sorry it was for the good of the country
ie londons olympic games
your such an eejit why not enter the special olympics as im sure you will tons of gold for your beloved GB father land seig heil achtung
72

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 05/04/2009 15:30:32
#93 whats the chance he will mix up salt with weed killer as they both have sodioum and chlorine
73

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 15:32:27
Poor showing from Grahamski who totally avoided the issue of the story.

Trailing happy slogans like join the real tartan army is designed to lure young people with no prospects into the Army, that is also why they were targetting schools. They don't tell them the reality, that they will be dispatched to countries like Iraq and Afghanistan to kill or be killed to defend US oil and strategic interests. It's got nothing to do with the defence of the realm, which is how the Army are supposed to be deployed.

I assume Grahamski is aware of that which is why he avoided commenting on the article itself and instad posted his usual anti-nationalist nonsense.

This is not a nationalist issue, it's about the welfare of our young people and a Ministry of Defence who might be considering press gangs in the near future such is the reluctance to join up to fight someone elses wars.
74

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 15:35:11
92
Lummy Wardog,

"Do mean n a t i o n a l i s m"

To start pointing out obvious typos makes you a hostage to fortune....like "largely in aprt" in yours, these wee blunders are excusable...just like your inability to spell principle properly, still it's a small mind who resorts to pedantry when their arguments are exhausted, eh?
75

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 15:37:56
94
Oh dear.
76

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 15:39:11
96
Right on, comrade. I'm writing to the tartan army to tell them to stop using the word 'army' for all the reasons you said. The swine.
77

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 05/04/2009 15:39:31
#97 small minds is it? if your one was any smaller shrews would have more sense than you ,labour lickenspittle
brown is mr burns whilst you make smithers look hetro
78

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 15:41:13
98 So what do you think Grahamski ? We're entering an era of recession/depression, there are going to be a lot of kids who aren't going to find work. Do you think using subliminal messaging like ''Join the Real Tartan Army'' is fair ?
79

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 15:41:48
100
You're funny. And homophobic. You're not Brian Souter are you?
80

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 15:44:43
101
Fair? Hardly. The army is a legitimate career choice, however. Even for a leftie.....
81

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 15:45:20
102 Brian Soutar is funny ?
82

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 15:46:30
103 Never said it wasn't but they should recruit honestly. It's not going to be like following the Scotland Team.
83

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 15:47:18
104
He's not being serious with all this god-bothering stuff is he? I thought he was having a laugh.....
84

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 15:49:24
106 Sadly god botherers exist in all Parties, look at Blair....
85

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 15:50:32
105
You don't think? I've always thought that there would be tons of chinless wonders called Farquhar and Torquil trying to tell you what to do. And I reckon being in the real army would be just the same...........
86

Grahamski,

Falkik 05/04/2009 15:51:19
107
I think you'll find that we don't do god....
87

The Brain,

05/04/2009 15:52:38
Observer makes a really intelligent point.

After 14 years of free education many people do not know what soldiers do.

ffs.

Observer, are you for real? Why don't you take bully's weiner out of your mouth and try making sense?
88

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 15:53:39
108 I have no interest in men dressed in shorts chasing a wee ball about. However, it's a daft ploy and I take it from your lack of defence you agree with me.

He's doing God now, he won't shut up about it.
89

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 05/04/2009 15:53:48
no im neither souter or homophobic,your crawling defence of a party who once stood for the poor,no just laughs in the face of the poor
brown lauding it over thatcher ,the old boot who destroyed scottish industry and brown admires
getting a portrait painted of the old witch
and now talk of given her a state funeral after the devil takes her below
what right minded socialist would defend an enemy of socialism
like mr burns brown is money hungry and evil with it
smithers who we all know is gay is always toadying up to him
your sycophantic defence of brown is obsesive ,worse than smithers on burns
during the period 69-75 the army ran a advert showing half shaved soldiers hanging about in the woods
one was clucking like a hen at a farmers wife,and next they are frying eggs
the slogan at the end was "will you be happy going to work tomorrow?"
your damn right i was ,as recruits then were shipped off to ireland,and runing down the shankhill road was not as good as going to my job
they will recruit gullable youngsters in high schools telling them how much pay etc,show them soldiers having a night out etc
but wont tell or show injuries from iraq or how insurgents hack off peoples heads etc
no way ,"join the army,see the world,meet exotic peole,blow their brains out"
90

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 15:56:12
110 You seem to think you're the Scotsman's equivalent to a shock-jock. Well you're not, you are an ignoramus. Most of us here like a good debate but there are certain rules involved. One is not being un-necessarily ignorant and generally behaving as if you were brought up in the gutter.
91

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 15:57:54
111
Insult my politics all you like but saying football is "men dressed in shorts chasing a wee ball about" is like saying opera is fat people shreiking!
92

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 05/04/2009 15:59:23
#113 the gutter ? oh how posh ,we used to dream of living in the gutter,my some lucky bast@rds on here got to live the high life
ach lifes not fair
lol
93

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 16:00:19
114 Well from what I have seen football can be quite operatic at times, the actings good anyway especially when they fall over.
94

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 16:00:37
112
Should that rhyme?
95

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 05/04/2009 16:01:34
OMG i agree with grahamski about opera
attended by snooty chinless wonders ,subsidised to the hilt
no scruffs allowed in wearing jeans
quick wife phone the doctor i may not live this down arrrrgggghhhh
96

Grahamski,

Falkirk 05/04/2009 16:03:34
116
Your cynicism wounds me.....anyway, I really must go and peel potatoes............sorry, open the dog food. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday. Bye.
97

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 16:04:41
119 Adios
98

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 05/04/2009 16:08:17
#119 i have dispatched a messenger at full speed to london
where he will deliver a recomendation that you be hounered with an iron cross first class with clusters
as you have made people on here who ,were feeling hung over and depressed
they are now in need of a clean pair of trousers ,as you have brought wit and mirth to these humble pages
spychiatric wards are resounding with laughter at you wise comments
you sir salt of the earth,a common man who will go down in history as a flucking hero ,those of us who were going mad salute you
(ronflmao as they cart me away to the royal ed)
99

The Brain,

05/04/2009 16:24:06
113 Observer

Why should you be treated with respect?

Your whole argument centers around the fact that football is fun, the army is dangerous.

Do you think ANYONE capable of passing the tests to get into the army is stupid enough not to know what a soldier does?
100

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 16:41:28
47 The Brian,

“My post only displays bead spelling.”

Quite so.

However, I am actually reasonably tolerant of “bead” spelling.

Much more so than one of my English teachers, a certain Kanute Campbell, a polyglot of remarkable prolificacy in producing subsequent graduates in a wide range of subjects.

The ability to be able express oneself, clearly and concisely may not necessarily be an indication of what you would regard as “intelligence”, however, poor spelling and the use of words and phrases in the wrong context does tend to indicate a certain lack of education, if not intelligence.
101

The Brain,

05/04/2009 16:52:07
123

What is a "subsequent graduates"? Can you produce graduates out of sequential order? I don't think so.

Is this the type of redundant word a bam-pot crowbars into a sentance to make themselves seem bright? Would this serve as an example of your buffoonery that I might learn from?

Hope this helps.
102

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 17:00:56
124 The Brian,

Mr Campbell taught at a secondary school.

A large number of his pupils subsequently went on to tertiary education and achieved degrees in a wide variety of subjects.

Hope that helps.

Should you have any other difficulties with the English language, please ask.
103

The Brain,

05/04/2009 17:01:01
" polyglot of remarkable prolificacy in producing subsequent graduates"

Let's see.

He's remarkable, well as I'm reading your remark, I suggest this can go.

Prolificacy means producing so I guess you've said the same thing twice here.

Honestly, why are you such a tool?
104

The Brain,

05/04/2009 17:02:10
125 Bully

Who cares where they went, it isn't obvious from your sentence at all. Just a redundant word you choob.

Hope this helps.
105

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 17:15:08
126 The Brian

“Prolificacy means producing so I guess you've said the same thing twice here”


Well done for looking that up!

Now look up “Scot free”, and inform us what that means.
106

The Brain,

05/04/2009 17:38:49
128 Bully - you wrote

"Now look up “Scot free”, and inform us what that means."

....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...


Irrelevant and pointless demands are met with a show of The Brain's standard flag.
107

The Brain,

05/04/2009 17:40:16
Mediocre attempts at ascii art will anger the monkey!

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...|... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .._,,-~~~-,-,,_
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...|... ... ... ,,---,,_... ...,-~",-":__-,: : :"-,:::"'~,,
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/: : : : : : :"'~-,,... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... |... ... /: : : : :~"'\,: \::__/:|o--,,. . . . .\,: ¯¯: : : : : :"-,
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.'~,: : : : : : : : : : : : :"'~-,,_... ... ... ... ...|... ... .."-,_: ,-" : : : : : : : : : : : "~,--~": : (o~--,,_. . |:|
... ."'~-,,: : : : : : : : : : : : :"-,~--,... ... ... |... ... ... ...,/: : : : : : ,,--,-,~-,,: : :"~-,,: : :"~,___:"-/,/__
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... ... .,/: : : : --,,:|: : : : : : : : :"-,,::::::::::::"~--,,_... ... \: : :|: /. .,/. . |. . . ,-".|. "~,,_____,,,,,__:\: : : : |
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... ... ..\, : : : : : ,/ : : : : : : :|: : : ,/::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::"\: "-,,___,\,/___,,\/___. |,-". |. . . ,/.|: |,~"
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... ... ... /: : : : :"-,,___,,-": : ,"-,-:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::'\: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : "-"__,-":,-"
... ... ... '\,_: : : : : : /-,,___,,"~-----~~~~,~---,,__::::::::::::::::::::::|: : : : : : : : __,,--~"~,,___,,-"
... ... ... ... ."'~---~"... ... ... ... ... ... ...|---~"::::"'~-::::::::::::::::,/: : : : : : : : : :\"~,,
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .|::::::::
108

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 05/04/2009 18:25:48
129 The Brian

Interesting response, thank you for that.

I am totally contrite regarding my previous contributions.

Your logic, erudition and concise explanation of the facts have completely changed my view upon Scotland, the world and even the universe.

Thank goodness that we can rely upon individuals such as you with such insight to lead us poor unintelligent choobs out of the morass and darkness of thinking that we can look after ourselves.

Save us Oh Master, please save us from ourselves.
We are but weak supplicants within your presence.

Ok you, you canny spell, draw or use words in the appropriate context, but we worship you anyway.

God save the Queens, whether they be Brown, Mandelson, Cairns
or Greenock McNeils.
109

BIG EYE,

Paisley 05/04/2009 18:46:48
Watched the Falkirk Rangers game on Setanta and listened to the chants of you can stuff your tartan army up your A***.

Concerned that the Unionist argument outside this blog has now reached the same levels.

Given the choice of the Tartan Army who have built a reputation of being the best fans in the World or the fans who went on the rampage in Manchester I know the way most Scots vote would go.

Indeed the only rivals these fans face are the discredited and totally corrupt rump of the Labour Party.

I would stress I do not support either Old Firm Clubs but find today's events really disgraceful and a slur on the many decent people who support Rangers and who must be ashamed by today's behaviour!
110

Eve,

Scotland 05/04/2009 19:26:18
47 The Brain:

Where do get such an odd concept that people are linking spelling to levels of intelligence and talent.

"Rather than use facts ot information you choose to behave like a pendantic smarty-pants. A trait that is prevelant in Nationalists."

I disagree, this personality trait not linked to political opinions. People who say or do things like that would do so no matter what political party they supported.

"I suggest because you are a benefit claimant with no prospects in life you like to fool yourself that pointing out a spelling mistake somehow makes you superior, quite the reverse. It only highlights your inferiority."

This has to be the weridist thing I have ever read. Here's WHY: Because most people who have been long term unemployment or keep finding themselves unemployed have some sort of struggle with either or both Literacy and numeracy. (This is a fact)

Other people who may find themselves unemployed at the moment it will because they were one of many who where made redundant.
111

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 19:26:36
122 The entrance test for the Army is not exactly challenging Brain, and we are talking about 17/18 year olds sitting them.

And the Royal British Legion agree with me that equating watching football with the dangerous profession of soldiering is not appropriate.

Once again you fund yourself completely alone on this thread, having alienated yourself from everyone with your ignorant and boorish behaviour, and also having called into question your mental well-being and capacity for rational thought. This seems to be a pattern.



112

Eve,

Scotland 05/04/2009 19:39:16
#132 BIG EYE: O dear!!

I have noticed that Old Firm supporters are fine/ highly likeable when it's just one or two of them,(They must be the sencible ones) when it turns in to a crowed the more bigoted ones begin to show face and friendly ones fade in to the background.
113

The Brain,

05/04/2009 19:41:03
134 Observer

You really are stupid. It may not be challenging in academic terms. But people that pass it will likely know what a soldier does.

The Royal British Legion have a stupid opinion as well then. People can tell the difference between watching football and being a professional soldier.

I only have one login. SNP choobs have many, that explains the ratio.

I'd still be a majority of one though. Anyone not under the care of Bernado's can tell the difference between sports spectoator and professional soldier.

You really are a phudd for even trying to argue otherwise. Please just phuck off and leave us in peace.
114

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 20:13:57
You know more about soldiering than the Royal British Legion Brain ?

Quite a claim that. Just like everything else you say it's a heap of garbage.
115

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 20:15:13
And as for your fantasies about multiple log ins that is precisely what they are - fantasies.
116

The Brain,

05/04/2009 20:20:11
138

"You know more about soldiering than the Royal British Legion Brain ? "

Absolutely not, I merely credit the general populus with more intelligence than the Royal British Legion and yourself. I credit them with enough intelligence to know that a football spectator and a professional soldier undertake different activities.

But you knew that.
117

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 20:26:26
"Equating the pleasures of watching international football with the very serious and dangerous profession of soldiering is just not appropriate.

"They have accidently implied that an army career is a leisure pursuit and it clearly isn't. There is world of difference between cheering on Scotland and fighting in Afghanistan and to try to draw a link between the two is unwise.

"I can't remember a previous recruitment slogan which fell so wide of the mark."

I don't think that comment from the Royal British Legion lacks intelligence, I find it strange that you are attacking them.
118

The Brain,

05/04/2009 20:31:31
"They have accidently implied that an army career is a leisure pursuit and it clearly isn't."

"Clearly isn't"

"Clearly isn't"

"clearly isn't"

Get it? Everyone apart from you knows that it "clearly isn't"

How can you trick someone into thinking two things are the same when they "clearly aren't"

Fool.
119

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 20:39:47
Tut tut there you go again, you have said the Royal British Legion lack intelligence and now you say they are fools.
120

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 20:46:04
''There is world of difference between cheering on Scotland and fighting in Afghanistan and to try to draw a link between the two is unwise.''


There you have it - The Royal British Legion agree with the majority ( although I note that you are a self-appointed ''majority of one'') of posters that the Army has attempted to draw a link between a leisure pursuit, and an occupation, in order to attract youg sports fans into the Army.

They wouldn't do it if they didn't think it was going to work would they ? Or are the British Army stupid too ?


121

The Brain,

05/04/2009 20:48:28
Observer

You're nothing more than a liar.

I said the Royal British Legion didn't credit others with enough intelligence.

I'm just not going to respond when you deliberately lie in the future.

You are completely devoid of thought, you can't even wind people up properly. Twisting what someone sais is an art in debate. Making things up is just pathetic.

Please provide full quotes in future if you don't want to be ignored.

An example, yesterday you appeared to support terrorism and the IRA's killing of soldiers because you believe in independence at all costs. That really is sick.
122

The Brain,

05/04/2009 20:52:00
I wrote

"I merely credit the general populus with more intelligence than the Royal British Legion and yourself."

You wrote

"you have said the Royal British Legion lack intelligence"

I mean, I'd expect more from a 5 year old.

What do I have to do to discredit you with this one. Just point out the obvious!

Phuck off, choob.
123

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/04/2009 21:03:42
''I merely credit the general populus with more intelligence than the Royal British Legion and yourself.''

I suppose that could be read two ways. However ''Fool'' cannot. I appreciate it must be ambarrassing for you to be at odds with the Royal British Legion, it just goes to show that you should read articles first before jumping in with both feet and making a total diddy of yourself.

Incidentally, you are an expert at making things up such as;

''An example, yesterday you appeared to support terrorism and the IRA's killing of soldiers because you believe in independence at all costs. That really is sick.''

The threads are all still there, there is no such quote.

124

www.r-o-a-r.org,

Dundee 05/04/2009 22:22:15
Always makes me chuckle when so many anti-Scottish commentators berate Scottish Nationalism.

Its clear despite their contstant fallacy tellings that we sponge off of them that they would be little lost Englanders without the Scots.
125

Silence of the Yams,

06/04/2009 01:13:25
Real tartan army my ass!
126

Calum Crubag,

Air chuairt ann an tir mhic na braiche.... 06/04/2009 10:11:17
I think the Brain should get a regular column. His incisive logic is second to none.

As to the point, i'm sure that serving soldiers will be only too pleased to have the 'British Army' rebranded as 'Tartan'. This masterstroke will have Alex Salmond choking on his brochan.

Hopefully though, the new Tartan Watch will only be deployed to defend our shores and not be used in illegal foreign wars dreamed up by an evil cabal of right-wing neo-con Christian fundamentalists in Washington, who curiously seem to have a lot of business interests that have done very well thank you from our 'liberating'.
127

Calum Crubag,

06/04/2009 10:12:25
Deer Hunting with Jesus, by Joe Bageant.

Read it!

 

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