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SNP booze blitz steams ahead

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Published Date: 01 March 2009
MINISTERS are to press ahead with a crackdown on sales of cheap alcohol in a move that could be fast-tracked through Parliament in as little as six months, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.
In the biggest shake-up of alcohol laws for years, the Government is expected to confirm tomorrow that cut-price drink offers will be banned, minimum prices on alcohol imposed and a higher age limit set on off-sales.

Last night, there was growing speculation the SNP will now seek to fast-track the plans into law by using existing licensing powers. If successful, the measures could be enacted within months and hit shops by the beginning of September.

The Government claims alcohol misuse costs the Scottish economy £2.25bn a year as a result of crime and ill health. Despite widespread opposition from the drinks industry and claims they were preparing to back down, Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill is expected to tell Parliament there will be no compromise.

The measures are set to spark a furious legal battle with the retail trade and alcohol industry, which claims the laws will hit customers' pockets, damage the industry, and do little to stop problem drinking.

If minimum pricing is introduced and promotional offers are banned, many of the offers at supermarkets and off-licences would be outlawed immediately.

A minimum price of 50p per unit of alcohol, as advocated by health campaigners, would result in rocketing prices. A two-litre bottle of cider, currently priced at around £3, would cost £7.50. Wine would also increase in price, with a £3 bottle of wine possibly rising to a minimum of £5. Multi-packs of beer – which are regularly discounted – would also rise in price.

The moves are being pushed through despite concerns within the SNP that the Government should not seek to increase the financial burden on consumers and retailers during an economic downturn.

But while one plan to impose separate supermarket aisles for alcohol sales is expected to be dropped, ministers are said to have agreed that they should press ahead with all the other measures they want to include.

The controversial plan to increase the age limit for off-sales to 21 is to remain in the proposals, despite opposition from students. Ministers will publish a new Criminal Justice and Licensing Act this week which will include part of their alcohol crackdown.

However, Scotland on Sunday understands that ministers may seek to place some of the measures – such as the ban on "Buy One Get One Free" deals – in the existing 2005 Licensing Act, which is due to come into force in September.

The Act enshrines "protecting and improving public health" as a key objective of all licensing decisions, so the Government may argue that it gives the power to ban cheap drink offers. The same logic could also be applied to plans to impose minimum pricing.

Such a tactic would enable SNP ministers to push the reforms through more quickly, but it would also prompt accusations that they were deliberately dodging debate. One retail source said last night: "If they use the Licensing Act, it would be simply about rail-roading these plans in a bid to avoid proper parliamentary scrutiny. It suggests that Kenny MacAskill knows how unpopular it is to push up prices in this economic environment."

But Government sources remained tight-lipped last night about their plans. A 40-page "Alcohol Framework" document containing the full details of the measures will be unveiled by Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon and Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill tomorrow morning.

Plans to raise the drinking age limit to 21 are unlikely to pass because of opposition from Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems. But other measures, such as minimum pricing and a ban on off-sales promotions are supported.

Richard Baker, Labour's justice spokesman, said: "On minimum pricing, we need to see the detail but we are prepared to listen on that." He added: "But these are all major changes which require full parliamentary debate."

The SNP has sought to highlight the damage being caused by drink in the last week, pointing to figures which show that hospitals are treating a record number of people for alcohol-related illnesses. Last year, 42,430 patients were discharged after being treated for illnesses linked to booze – a 20% jump in five years.

Other figures have shown that Scots drank the equivalent of 50 million litres of pure alcohol in 2007 – an average 42 bottles of spirits per person.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 28 February 2009 6:53 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Alcohol & binge drinking
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 00:15:09

Is this the best the SNP can do?, never mind other matters that they steered well clear from, likes HBOS and RBS, no surprise they will never regain power in Scotland again!, they have totally 'Blown-It'!

So! Let the 'bootlegging' begin!, we will all go down south to purchase our 'Booze' in lorry fulls and sell it at a 'bargain-price', in Scotland!




2

Freedum, noo!,

01/03/2009 00:16:48
OH super, quality ales can be provide to the responsible for a reasonable price so the communists must come in and stamp this out.

ffs, what is this country coming to, the SNP are more tyranical that big brother Labour.

Wine has duty on it

The duty has VAT on it

The VAT on the duty has income tax on it

The income tax on the VAT has National insurance tax on it.

And the SNP they need to tax us more on a weekly luxury? How can people vote for tryanical paternalistic communists?
3

,

01/03/2009 00:19:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Fifi la Bonbon,

01/03/2009 00:19:20
Well it's clear that they are going to drop the plan to impose separate tills in off licenses, and the silence on the plan to bill licensees for the cost of coping with the social impact of the stuff they sell at a profit suggests that this is a goner too.

These were the important things, and they're oot. The planned price hike is fine - no problem about that - but the under 21 stuff is no nonsense.

There is clearly no chance that they'd do the most important thing they could - make it law that licensees who are caught selling booze to under aged people are prosecuted and sentenced to a year in jail - minimum. Oh well.
5

Evolution in action,

St Andrews 01/03/2009 00:21:27

Our leaders should in Holyrood should set an example by stopping drinking until the next election.
6

Freedum, noo!,

01/03/2009 00:24:34
5

Yes. I think Kenny MacAskill was picked up by the police for loutish behaviour while drunk.

I haven't had so much as a peep out anyone for booze. Maybe put my foot in it at the odd dinner party with the wifes work pals, but other than that.

The SNP are just introducing new stealth taxes to pay for the Islam parties they are so fond of.
7

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 00:25:38

And lets all remember the saying,.......

....."Give an inch and they will want a Mile"

Next the SNP, will be Taxing us for having Sex, or even worse, banning it altogether!


8

,

01/03/2009 00:27:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

,

01/03/2009 00:29:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
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10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 00:36:40


Canes Pugnaces ~9,

I certainly hope so, Babies don't grow on trees! :)



11

Freedum, noo!,

01/03/2009 00:41:23
Charles Linskail

"Next they'll be taxing us for sex"

VAT on condoms

Income tax on the VAT paid on condoms

National insurance tax on Income tax on VAT on condoms.

Are you expempt from any of those?

Prescription tax on female contraceptives

Income tac on prescription tax

National insurance tax on income tax.

And "They don't tax sex". Get real you chube. Everything is taxed at least 2 or 3 tims in communist Britain.

Wine is taxed 4 times, cigerrettes too.

Coucnil tax is taxed twice

As is all VAT taxed twice.

Stamp duty is taxed twice.

You can't think of anything other than maybe the first 6 mortgages payment in a year that aren't taxed 2,3 or 4 times.
12

walter,

01/03/2009 00:42:04
Private Bloggs can return home from Iraq/Afghanistan, kiss his/her 1 year old child that they have not seen for half the child's life goodnight as they put them to bed, suggest a bottle of wine with dinner but they cannot have one, Why? because both they and their spouse are 20 years old.
They are responsible enough to fight in wars, earn a living and pay taxes, be married and a parent, vote for those who wish to govern the country but cannot buy a bottle of wine from the shop or off licence.
Who is it that say they cannot? The SNP government of Scotland say so.
The very SNP government who want to give the responsibility of the vote to a 16 year old have deemed that these 20 year old's are not responsible enough to buy a bottle of win.
Why have they deemed this to be the case? They have decided that because of the actions of the minority they will inflict mass punishment on the majority.
13

AJM,

01/03/2009 00:49:25
Well we have to wait and see whether there is a retreat, as pre normal.

#15 Walter your critic is daming. Yet still they will allow wine gums to be on sale to the under 20's.

If you are old enough to decide the fate of then nation in a vote you are old enough to by a bottle of beer or wine.
14

Freedum, noo!,

01/03/2009 00:49:59
Petrol is taxed 4 times.

Wine is taxed four times.

Is this the first item to be promoted to the taxed 5 times club? I can't think of any others.

Taxes on wine

1) Alcohol duty added to price

2) Then VAT on whole price including duty (tax on a tax)

3) Money used to buy wine earned so Income tax on VAT portion paid on duty (tax on a tax on a tax)

4) Nation Insure on IT on VAT on Duty (Tax on a tax on a tax on a tax)

5) Price inflator --> NI paid on IT paid on VAT paid on duty paid on price inflator. (that is a.... drum roll please


Tax on a tax on a tax on a tax on a tax. The SNP are taking communist Britain to new heights. Is that a world record on multiple taxations?
15

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 00:53:04


WELL-SAID Walter!! @#15,

And something that I have said on many occasions!

The SNP are beyond a Joke, none the wonder they are treated such, by the voters!

16

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 01/03/2009 00:59:52
Charles,

Is the reason that you are so against this, is that it will interfere with your regular routine of sending your child bride to the shops to buy your buckie ration?
17

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 01:02:50
18 Charles you really need to go for a lie down in a darkened room.

17 Freedum, noo you're a Tory - so just post as one OK. It is a free country (I type that to set you off).

10 Sam - stop faking you are pathetic beyond belief. Talk with your own voice it is - see above - a free country.

On the story - sorry to all my SNP chums - but prohibition doesn't work.



18

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 01:07:50


KampungHighlander ~19,

I am quite capable of purchasing my own 'booze', thankyou very much!
But Alas!, it soon will not be in Scotland, and the SNP say that they 'Stand for Scotland' as the dog the knife into the Scottish Whisky industry's!
Make good sense, 'cut the hand that feeds you'

It like watching the 'Muppet Show'!



19

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 01:12:22
You're the muppet.
20

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 01:16:49


Observer ~22,

Typical response, when the 'Truth Hurts'!

21

subrosa,

01/03/2009 01:16:49
# 15

I'm weary reading about the soldier who won't get a beer when he returns home, so weary.

If you're so concerned about our soldiers, why don't you join with the many who feel they should be brought home from these illegal wars?

Something's got to be done about our drinking culture and I've yet to hear ideas from the opposition. Other countries respect alcohol, we abuse it.
22

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 01:18:56

subrosa ~24,

Snap! the time clock, do we get a prize?



23

Willie Macleod,

Wick 01/03/2009 01:22:45
#20 Good Morning Observer You are right about #10 #17 and prohibition.
24

walter,

01/03/2009 01:38:57
#24
The soldiers can have a beer when they come home, Just as long as they do not try buy it from the off licence.
They can go into the pud and buy a beer, in fact can buy a few beers and then one of them may have the misfortune of meeting you who will I am quite sure inform him that you are weary of hearing about soldiers having to go to the pub for a pint because he cannot have a glass of wine at home with his wife.
I am sure that the next time the refuge collectors are on strike and the soldiers are collecting the rat infested rubbish from your street or putting out the fire in your house when the fire brigade go on strike you will tell those soldiers as well how weary you are of them.
25

Statsman,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 01:39:19
This is the problem with the SNP. The Maxwell/MacAskill/Robison trio are rabid puritanical fanatics that will ultimately lose the SNP a lot of votes.

The NHS provides next to no counselling services for people that are depressed etc. If people end up drinking to 'dull their pain', what is the problem - the availability of alcohol or the government's incompetence in not sorting out the NHS?

Some joined up thinking is needed in government.
26

paulfromedinburgh,

01/03/2009 01:40:04
Why is everyone saying this is a tax!!! It's minimum pricing, not an added tax, too very different things.
27

Statsman,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 01:50:07
29 paulfromedinburgh

Does it make a difference what it is? It would be a tax if they could tax it. They just don't have the legal power.

It's all just childish nonsense from mental midgets. Hiding cigarettes from adults, insisting you pay more money for alcohol, trying to inconvenience people under 21 etc.

Is there a party for grown ups I can vote for?
28

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 02:05:16

"I am 18years old! I will not be voting SNP!"

"I am 19years old! I will not be voting SNP!"

"I am 20years old! I will not be voting SNP!"

"I am 21years old! I remember and will not be voting SNP!"

"I am between 21-30years old! I will Never vote SNP!

"I am 70years old, I enjoy a whisky, but alas can't afford it, because of the SNP, I will not be voting SNP!

And Soo it goes on! It dose not take "Einstein" to figure out why Scotland will Never be Independent!, when we have anti booze policies such as these!



29

Freedum, noo!,

01/03/2009 02:09:54
29

"WHy is everyone saying this a tax"

You are the type of voter that is so stupid that you can be conned by spin, you are so stupid that is why they get away with spin.

Duty is paid on price

VAT is paid on price+duty

price goes up, duty and VAT go up.

duty and VAT go up, tax goes up, meaning more income tax needing paid to ge thte money to pay those taxes, mean more NI etc.

You are a front bottom, sir. And I mean that with all due respect.
30

Freedum, noo!,

01/03/2009 02:16:20
29

Oh it's not a tax, it's just extra money we've added on for you to pay. Do I get anything extra in return? No.

What's the justification then if it's not a tax. Oh it's to stop you buying it. I see? Why? Because, um, well...

How much do shoplifters/kids stealing from parents spirit cupboard pay for their booze? So a price hike is useless.

MacAskill and the rest of the SNP need a good shoe-ing, as does the stupid poster at 29.
31

Willie Macleod,

Wick 01/03/2009 02:33:11
#33 Freedum,noo!, Away to your bed you drunken hoodlum and in the morning you might find that the reds under your bed and Public sector workers are not demons but people dedicated and caring in what they do.
32

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 03:27:42


Polices beyond comprehension, that fail us, the Scottish Public, the results are all to obvious, the comprehension of fact of matter, makes one wonder the intelligence, of how one See's the answer to a problem!

A Child, if can't comprehend a problem,...throws a tantrum!

Others see through this "Tantrum", and Know it is of 'NO ANSWER'

Pity the 'Fact' that some who propose new legislation are like the Child, that cannot comprehend a situation, and deal with it with without intelligence.


Hence the 'FACT',...

"I am 18years old! I will not be voting SNP!"

"I am 19years old! I will not be voting SNP!"

"I am 20years old! I will not be voting SNP!"

"I am 21years old! I remember and will not be voting SNP!"

"I am between 21-30years old! I will Never vote SNP!

"I am 70years old, I enjoy a whisky, but alas can't afford it, because of the SNP, I will not be voting SNP!

And Soo it goes on! It does not take "Einstein" to figure out why Scotland will Never be Independent!, when we have anti booze policies such as these!




33

Ginger Nuts,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 03:59:26
If the SNP ban booze for under 21's, then members of their Federation of Student Nationalists will probably never get laid again!

Sad fugly wee boring spotty teenage guys just canny get the burds without that magic liquor that makes them appear barely passable on a slow night, in dim lighting,




at the students union.
34

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 04:02:50
OK, Listen up....

It just proves that SNP are concerned with SCOTLAND and not Votes! They want this boozing culture to end.

1. Kids falling around drunk aged 10.
2. Kids starting Drugs at an early age
3. Teens hanging out in gangs getting drunk and threatening the public.
4. Alcoholics buying drink and beating wife and child
and the list goes on.....

Scotland have possibly the worst record in Europe. I would like to see liver scan results.. probably worst in Europe too. Its close to a 3rd world country.

Yes, there is tax on Alcohol, so maybe if Scotland were given power to change it SNP wouldnt have to do this. Perhaps independence WOULD help after all.

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc all have expensive alcohol and guess what... no where near the troubles of Scotland. I drank more in Scotland than I did when living in Norway, where I drank a healthy amount. I came back to Scotland.. guess what... easy access... I drank a lot more, even though I am not a big drinker I was drinking unhealthy amounts! I moved to UAE, and guess what its expensive, so I drank a healthy amount... then Malaysia, and guess what its expensive... I drink a healthy amount. If its cheap people WILL buy it.

NOW especially we need to stop temptation amidst a financial crisis. people turn to drink and families lose out!

Seriously... get a grip. Does it honestly not bother you that children are out on the streets drinking? where do they get the drink? Brothers, sisters and Parents. These people need rehabilitated but that will take forever... so lets stop these Brothers, sisters and parents being able to afford to give these children alcolhol.... (whether intentionally or not)

Lets see if you will vote for SNP when the streets are safer, the young are getting an education rather than drinking, the NHS is less strained due to less liver problems and friday night brawls.

as for driving down to England to get booze and bring it up etc. That will happen of course, but se
35

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 04:06:08
29. It's all tax. The SNP are complete jokers. They'll drive the kids into the dodgy world of home brew, hobo wine, and getting their mates to buy it for them. Meanwhile the working man who is getting right royally screwed over by Salmond and his underlings, can no longer afford his tipple. Aye thanks SNP, now could you make an example, go on just say no to the free booze and stop spending ridiculous amounts of the taxpaupers cash.
36

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 04:08:26
37. You forgot to mention on your list. SNP Justice Ministers who were once arrested for drunk and disorderly. Look if I can't go out and get pashed if I so chose the you can keep your Independence.
37

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 04:10:43
37. News for you. You can stick the price of booze up as much as you like, but it won't stop alcohol abuse. Alco's will still get it by hook or by crook, and probably mostly crook. Oh sure the streets are going to be safer, when some teen is mugging us to raise his booze money.
38

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 04:18:43
Sure you will not get rid of alcohol abuse but you will certainly stop a lot of it. I also believe that the majority of teens will look to find entertainment elsewhere rather than turning to mugging. In the short term, sure, some will turn to mugging. but in the long term, a change in culture will lead to realising its not worth it!

The only reason teens are drinking is because they started so young and think there is nothing else to do. A teen doesnt turn 14 and decide I am going to get me some alcohol NO MATTER WHat!!! no, usually, they manage to steal alcohol from parents who have tons of alcohol in the cupboard and get hooked! then they grow up thinking thats all there is to life.

It will stop a hell of a lot of children getting hold of their first bottle and a lot of people who abuse alcohol only because its convenient. If its too expensive they will just not drink as much.

Of course the real alcoholics need help and need to be given support, however the amount of alcohol abuse in Scotland is not due to everyone being alcoholics.
39

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 04:26:23
Do you honestly believe that an increase of price is going to stop you being able to go out and get pashed or have a good time? no it wont. Maybe instead of 2x a week you will only manage it 2x a month. Or, people will learn how to spend their money more productively and stop buying over expensive starbucks and Pret-a-mangers to save up for some drink etc.

40

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 04:28:45
41. "In the short term, sure, some will turn to mugging."

Are you serious?

Biggest question is what is going to happen at these large sums of money (stealth taxes) that will be rasied from shoving the price of booze up to ridiculous prices. I don't think much change in alchol sales will happen, since an alco still wants his pop, and he'll get it no matter what it takes. This will lead to more broken homes, more domestic situations, and more kids going without needed things.

So what other luxuries will the Politically Correct SNP tax next? Chocolate biscuits to stop obesity? Bubble gum, to help keep the pavements clean? Coffee to cut down on road rage? TV viewing to protect our eyesight?
41

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 04:29:54
42. Yes. If I can't afford to go out and get pashed or even have a couple of pints. What's the chance of that acutally happening. This is an attack on the working man.
42

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 04:53:14
Hopefully the "stealth tax" which isnt really stealth since they have made it clear that they are forcing supermarkets etc. to do this..... will go into health service or into Scotland as opposed to the taxes which get put into the UK (which is majority England due to size). Ridiculous prices? ridiculous prices is what it is at now!!! how can we justify the prices as they are now? its crazy! 2 for 1 deals etc.

you seem to be saying that people will still buy the same amount because they are alcoholics. So many people I know only drink because they can afford it. Even the Alcoholics who I know who try to stop cannot stop, usually cause... they can afford it.

I would hardly call this politically correct. the fact everyone is bashing it clearly means its the opposite. its unpolitically correct.

The prices of wine will increase from 3 to 5 pounds. You can no longer afford that? the price of a pint might go up from a pound to 2 in the pub. If you drink at home and want cider. Instead of a ridiculously low 2.50 you will spend 7.50 which IS expensive but still affordable if you dont spend on something else. in otherwords you will ONLY buy it when you REALLY want to. hmm.. cinema or cider this week. ok, I really want to see this film I can do without the cider... but guess what... the kids who buy cider... they suddenly CANT afford it. or instead of everyone getting a bottle each, you will find there is only 2 bottles amongts 10 of them.

43

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 04:54:31
Have the SNP ran this one past their Asians for Independence group yet? The corner Asian offies/licensed grocers won't last ten minutes if the SNP get away with this. Then there are pubs which will close down, supermarkets will close down. Result, huge layoffs, bankruptcies, and the working man denied of what little pleasures he has left. I can see they've really thought this one out. Well done SNP, another winner.
44

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 04:57:34
45. So your argument is that people shouldn't be able to afford it? Look, adult should have the perfect right to drink, smoke, or cuss if he/she so chooses. It's free country. The SNP are turnign the place into a Nanny State, where only the wealthy can afford to have a leisure time. You said yourself that I shouldn't drink ever 2 weeks, but should only be able to drink every 2 months? What planet are you on exactly, and have you even considered the damage you will do the hospitality industry.

Keep it up SNP. This one will be your undoing.
45

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 04:57:58
Some general questions

How many times do you go for a pint in a week?

if you had to reduce it from 2 to 1 or from 4 to 2 is this a serious problem for you?

Do you have a family?

Is it a serious problem that you would have to increase the amount of time you see them from 5 to 6 or from 3 to 5 times a week?

Attack on the working man? what about the family?
46

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 04:59:48
45. "The prices of wine will increase from 3 to 5 pounds. You can no longer afford that? the price of a pint might go up from a pound to 2 in the pub."

In answer to both points. No I can't afford that there's a recession going on in the world doncha know? YOu ought to know because you keep blaming it on Gordon Brown.

As for pints going from 1 pound to 2 pound, when was the last time you were in a pub? Pints for a pound, aye maybe back in the 1980's!
47

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 05:03:01
48. This is an attack on the working man and his family. Families will suffer, because parents dependent on alcohol will still buy alcohol at any price. I go to the pub once a week, that is hardly excessive. It's about all I can reasonably afford after I pay my rent and household bills, I doubt I will be able to afford even that luxury anymore. This will hurt everyone and lead to unemployment.
48

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 05:05:14
Supermarkets close down? corner shops close down?

How does every other country in the world manage to keep supermarkets open? how does every other country in the world manage their hospitality industry when the alcohol is STILL more expensive than it will be after these minimum prices are introduced?

I never said you shouldnt be able to afford it. on the contrary. I think you SHOULD and you WILL be able to. Just need to be more careful and maybe cut down a little. Most people drink FAR too much (and thats not the alcoholics) They will now have to cut down to perhaps an unhealthy level but not excessively unhealthy level.

Is Scotland the only country in the world which will crumble economically under the pressures of reasonable costing alcohol?

If thats the case, maybe we need our independence cause it certainly doesnt seem to happen in independent countries.

By the way. I have no problem with Labour, lib dems or conservatives running scotland as an independent country because at least they wont have to follow the party line that is set in the best interest of the majority (being England). Independent Scotland will have Labour actually doing things in the best interest of the country.
49

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 05:10:53
Alcohlic families are a separate issue and I agree with you on that one.

However, what percentage of the population are in that situation?

If you seriously cannot afford to go to the pub once a week after the increase in prices (and looking at cuts elsewhere) then there is something seriously wrong with the country.

No country in the world that is developed with our population is in such a mess or bad situation.

Then lets look at countries with our population that even have close to our resourses... Nope... they are all doing fantastically well.

Now look at the countries that DO have our resources with our population... My God they are amongst the richest in the world....

Why do you suppose this is? Scotland has no excuse to be in the state its in... other than.... the fact that it doesnt actually rule itself. Scotland is not a country. Officially its not a country and people dont even accept our currency!
50

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 05:13:17
51. So how is it that you imagine that I, an adult person over the age of consent for everything should simply accept the SNP make my choices for me?

You claim I should still be able to afford to buy a drink if I want it. Without an increase in my wages, I don't see how that is possible. I still have my partner and two children to support and the same household bills.

Simply why should I and others of a responsible adult age be forced to cut down on my leisure? I still have a choice though and that is to vote the SNP out at the next election.

By the by, this pub you get pints for a pound from, where is that exactly this side of Dingley Dell? Add a couple of quid to that and you have the price of a pint right now.
51

Gulfstream Flier,

Midatlantic 01/03/2009 05:18:17
Can we have the SNP focus on giving the kids somewhere to go and have some non-alcohol induced fun.
Setting a minimum price for a can of beer is just a stupid knee-jerk reaction to a long entrenched "drinking culture" in Scotland. Legislating consumer prices is not the role of government. If the drinks industry tried to fix supermarket prices there would be an uproar. It's bad enough that we already have to deal with the price-fixing in petrol sales.
Let the SNP look for a way to help these kids and not just throw a price-rock in their faces.
52

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 05:20:11
I can see your point of view and agree with you from your side, but the bigger picture, I still point to my comments on 52. It should not be the case. You WILL no doubt lose some enjoyment and in MY opinion, it will also make Scotland a safer and better place with more chance for youth, and so, its a small price to pay. And of course you have every right to do something about it and vote against SNP. However, I think you will find the trouble is not the alcohol its all your other bills... They are too damn high. Alcohol will be a reasonable price but everything else is too expensive whilst wages are too low.

Hehe, the pub is a bit of a scary place actually. 5 drinks for 5 pounds. Thats either pints or vodka mixes ;) Doubt you would actually want to go there!

In town it is of course more expensive (hence the reason I dont go into town...)

53

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 05:26:02
54.

That is of course correct, however I doubt it will help kids in Scotland today. Youth clubs dont seem to help much.

Living in a village with immense greenery where kids have the opportunity to mountain bike, play football, rugby, or any other sports, even go swimming up in the waterfalls etc. etc. You cannot beat those kind of options and yet..... they choose to use the greenery as a place to meet and drink and leave bottles behind. The youth clubs that DO exist are used as a place to meet to fight. The waterfalls are a 35 minute walk... cannea be arsed... The nice green fields dont have goal posts, so they dont want to play.. immagination is non existant... using jackets as goal posts? You kidding? going Biking in the forest or up the hills? Are you gay? then we need to wear one of those gay helmets! What about the football park with the goal posts? oh, too much glass from bottles around there.

Its a convenient excuse, not enough to do... there is more than in my day, and I never had a lack of things to do. Even on my own I used my brain and did things on my own.
54

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 05:29:44
What I dont understand is how kids from supposedly poor backgrounds manage to get an ipod and fancy phone. They break them or lose them and have a replacement the next day. This breeds a lack of respect and a really bad attitude... still want to know where these families get the money from when I, with a reasonable job could never afford to do something like that....
55

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 05:31:48
55. No it's a large price to pay. You are telling me that I have to make the sacrifices of my entertainment and leisure time because of others, and that somehow I should be pleased about this?

I am a humble postman, I do my job, get my pittance. Sitting with my mate in the pub once a week, is all I have or can afford in way of a social life. I just don't agree that the SNP making yet another thing ridiculously high is a good move, or is of benefit to anyone. No doubt Kenny McAskill will still enjoy his tipple, on his Ministerial wages.
56

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 06:23:27
I think sacrifices have to be made, but no, I dont think you should be pleased about it. And I am not pleased that you will be negatively affected by this. If I were in your shoes I would not be happy. Unfortunately people are always going to be unhappy with policies, especially in Scotland where there is so much wrong with society (and again it should not be that way).

On an individual basis I do not agree with taking away your freedom. On a national basis, I think, if it works it will be worth it for the nation. But we should be blaming the people who got us into this position in the first place. A Humble postman? That should not have anything to do with it. In Norway Postmen own cottages in the mountains for their easter holidays. In Other smaller countries Postmen have enough savings to buy a 2nd home. The same applies to bus drivers and street cleaners.

I DO however think you would be better off in an independent Scotland. If its labour you vote for they would do a better job in an independent scotland.
57

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 01/03/2009 06:40:01
For a country that relies so heavily on a drinks industry for much of its employment and wealth we ought to be able to determine a more positive and informative way of resolving the problems associated with binge drinkers.

Education, education, education is really what is required with sensible consumption being explained.

In the likes of France, Germany, Spain, and Italy etc the intorduction to sensible drinking comes via food at meal times when a happy atmosphere pervades - are we too ignorant a nation to help overcome our inability to drink sensibly if allowed?

I think not, so lets trust the young people in particular more and educate them to understand both the benefits and the need for sensible alcohol consumption.
58

GLW,

Tbilisi 01/03/2009 07:11:21
I said here months ago Local Income Tax was not thought through properly and a non starter, watch out for another SNP U turn.

Day trips to Newcastle any one !!!
59

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01/03/2009 07:11:55
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Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 01/03/2009 07:32:15
We have a real problem in this country, which demands vigorous action, but this proposal is not it. Alcoholic drink is already expensive here, which itself suggests that raising prices is not the solution.

In southern European countries where alcoholic drinks are more reasonably priced, such as France, Spain, Italy or Greece, there are far fewer problems with underaged or excessive drinking. This suggests strongly that the problem is a cultural one, not a financial one.

The first problem that the Scottish Government should address is the widely-held idea that there is something "manly" about heavy drinking.
61

Soosider,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 07:41:09
The quality of "comments" on this site has fallen considerably, Ok I expect the "night shift" to be full of comments from people who seem to sit up most of the night.
However the level of attack on what is probably the most serious issue facing Scotland is frankly appalling.
To all of those who attack a tightening of the law around "Alcohol"
1 "corner shops will go out of business" no they wont, and if there business is so reliant on selling to those under 21 then perhaps it would be better if they did go out of business.
2 Scotland has the highest alcohol consumption in Europe, Scotland has proportionally more violent crime than anywhere in Europe, Scotland has proportionally more murders than anywhere else in Europe. There is clear and indisputable evidence of a link between Alcohol and violence.
3 A significant proportion of time and resources in Hospital A&E is expended on drink related matters, visit an A&E any evening you will see this for your self.
4 Alcohol is one of the major killers in our country
5 Alcohol does more damage to our society then Drugs - that is a fact. From battered wifes to neglected children, from full blown alcoholics to absenteeism.

There are many more matters where alcohol plays a huge contributing factor.
What has to change is our tolerance of alcohol and the misuse of alcohol. A not unreasonable starting point is to make it harder to get, more control of its points of sale and yes control its price.
62

Bejjy,

01/03/2009 07:42:59
This proposed policy will be a vote loser for the SNP. It is not the cost or the availability of alcohol that is the problem but the mentality of some of the users who drink solely to get totally off their heads. Here in Europe people at 16 can not only buy alcohol off-sales but can also drink in the bars at that age and yet we don't have the same degree of alcohol related problems that Scotland has.
63

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 01/03/2009 07:47:37
I support the Scottish Government 100% on this one. No kidding.
64

allan58,

edinburgh 01/03/2009 07:54:19
While I have reservations about imposing a minimum price, would ending cut price drink offers really harm anyone? No, I don't think so . After all, would this not just mean that we would pay the full recommended retail price? That isn't setting a minimum price is it?
Would it really harm anyone to ban the so called "happy hours" &" buy a double for only £1 more" sort of offers? No, I don't think so. Is it right that a bottle of cider or alcopop can cost less than a bottle of water? That at least seems strange to me. Has Charles Linskaill been imbibing? Obviously as his comments here are as incoherent as his comments re Edinburgh trams!

It is all very well to "educate" as to the effects of excessive consumption and, to exhort those" responsible" drinkers to watch their intake. However, if temptation is placed in someones way then, people will be tempted - especially if it's a buy one get one free!! I've been just as guilty - just in case anyone asks!!

Oh, by the way, my heart really bleeds for the poor students who won't (allegedly) be able to afford to drink. Well, lack of money has never stopped them before!!

Many of the reactions here have been predictably hysterical but, this is not necessarily about "nanny state-ism" or "infringing liberties" I feel that the sad reality is that there are too many people who will simply NOT drink responsibly. If these measures ( with some modification) achieve their intention, then that is all the justification we need.

As for the age limits - well, I am undecided. Most pubs in the City centre are over 21 only so altering the legal limit is probably unnecessary. In fact, I think the age 21 limit actually improved things as far as pubs were concerned.
It got rid of the idiot teenagers who seem to have this obsession that to have a good time, one must get smashed out of one's skull!!
65

Ubermensch,

01/03/2009 07:57:16
Southern Europe and Scotland are 2 different things. Culture takes decades to change.... Culture isnt just education, its lifestyle.

In Southern Europe, there is sunshine and people go out. there is a certain diet, which would never be adopted in Scotland. In Southern Europe they dont rely on handouts cause they have extended family living with them and a support system in place. So Scotland CAN NEVER be like Southern Europe, therefore cheaper booze and education wont help.

So we look at countries similar. Northern Europe and Central Europe where alcohol is MORE expensive than even the prices that we can expect to see with the extra SNP "Stealth" tax. These countries are doing well.
66

cabrach loon,

inverness 01/03/2009 07:59:35
remember prohibition in the US, crime, bootleggers etc. Banning is not the solution, medical education is. I have a damaged liver and had to virtually stop drinking / that is a shock to the system as is gout!

A really pathetic solution and totally negative to the party. There must be better ways - look at southern europe where wine is part of the culture but simply social rather than the need to be boozed to the eyeballs. Moral strictures are needed to reassert themselves in every form.
Never mind one can make beer and wine so easily at home as I used to in muslim countries.
67

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01/03/2009 08:03:00
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terry osser,

morden 01/03/2009 08:03:28
first they banned hunting, then they banned smoking, now they want to ban drinking parallels anyone--he had a moustache

ps booze is subsidized in london parliament and smoking allowed in the bars.

eu fascists at work again
69

terry osser,

morden 01/03/2009 08:04:10
70 why?
70

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 01/03/2009 08:15:02
If they do this - and I've got no brief either way - the towns just over the Border will become frontier boom towns - Carlisle and Berwick will open giant booze supermarkets like the ones in Calais and there will be convoys of self-hire vans running up and down the M74 from Glasgow to Carlisle.
71

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 08:30:49
I do not support these measures, but to describe price rationing as a
“tax” shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what tax actually is.

Tax is a levy Governments place upon citizens in order to pay for centrally or locally provided communal services, e.g. social welfare, education, health services, defence, police, Trident missiles, illegal wars, millionaire life styles for Labour MPs etc.

Price rationing on the other hand, by its very nature is designed to reduce the amount of money collected by Government, (in this case from VAT, none of which currently directly accrues to the Scottish Government in any case), by reducing the sales of the taxable goods concerned.

I am aware that the Government can point to a number of academic studies supporting their contention that booze price rationing leads to an overall drop in consumption, and I do not doubt the logic of that position.

However, I am not convinced that these particular measures are sufficiently targeted towards the real problems areas.

I would rather we examined how the existing legislation could be better enforced to combat under-age and binge drinking.

By all means explore more constructive methods of eradicating the Buckie and cheap cider culture amongst some of our youth, but not at the expense of the sensible and moderate imbibers who make up the majority of our society.
72

greenhill,

01/03/2009 08:32:30
Anyone who thinks that the scenes of Islamic rioters on the streets of Europe after the publication of some innocuous cartoons were disturbing has not seen anything yet.

The people of Scotland will not put up with this. This booze policy will accelerate the process whereby people will realise just how naive and hubristic the SNP is. I predict riotous demonstrations of the same kind that hit Margaret Thatcher when she tried to bring in the poll tax.

The SNP are completely out of touch with reality. That fact is underlined by their unfeasible energy policy which they dishonestly put forward and is accepted only by fools. However it would take quite a while for the harsh reality to hit them on that strategy.On the booze issue trouble is looming for Scotland and the SNP.

We demand our freedom and that includes freedom to drink and benefit from cheap booze promotions. They will never take away our freedom.
73

Stitch That, Jimmy,

01/03/2009 08:33:21
74, You're getting warm. One of the main reasons for Scotland's booze culture is the lamentable quality of Scotland's government, past and present. Another is the high percentage of the working population that is partly or totally dependent on the Government for a living, either through tax credits, social security benefits or by being employed in the public sector. I grew up in the fifties in the central lowlands, within coughing distance of Carron Iron Works, which, though a shadow of its former self, was still a major local employer. People were proud to work there. Nowadays, what have we got in its place? Bra manufacturing? Call centre slavery? This lack of planning is pygmy-minded government at its worst. As in Orwell's 1984, in a situation like this you either fight it and lose, or give up and drown your sorrows in cheap alcohol.
74

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 08:40:49
Wayhay!! More legislation, just what we need, that hits the responsible and law-abiding. How typical of modern politicians, if there's a problem, we need new laws, never mind enforce the ones we have. The problem of bad and violent behaviour is easily solved: restrict the source of over-consumption or illegal consumption. Running a licensed premises that is selling to underagers or drunk people? Lose your liquor licence for 6 months/ a year / forever. Running an offie that sells to bairns? Lose your offsales licence, fullstop. Trouble is that would upset the ethnic minority SNP constituency and that would never do. Drunk and incapable in the street? A night spent in a battling, vomit nd p*sh reeking drunk tank at the polis station, not taken to hospital and baby sat. And then a £100 fixed penalty fine in the morning. It's all so simple, like the majority of our politicians. Spineless, the lot of them.
75

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01/03/2009 08:46:01
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01/03/2009 08:48:36
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TimW,

Elgin 01/03/2009 08:52:29
I would certainly concur with many posters in that this will not be a popular policy, and indeed will almost certainly cost them votes.
In a nutshell, they are trying to change attitudes with price control! Does this work - arguably no, as can be seen with, for example cigarrettes, which, despite being at their most expensive still tempt an INCREASING amount of young people to smoke.
So why pursue it? Is it a misguided thought that 'och it'll work for us!' or is it simply that they are unaware of what sensible Governing actually entails?
78

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01/03/2009 08:59:20
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Walter Ego,

Durness 01/03/2009 09:06:07
This is one SNP policy which I shall support. Go for it.
80

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01/03/2009 09:09:14
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Buckfastleigh,

01/03/2009 09:13:20
Steady on now; keep yer hands off my Buckie!
82

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01/03/2009 09:16:16
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01/03/2009 09:16:48
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01/03/2009 09:17:33
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01/03/2009 09:19:20
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01/03/2009 09:20:10
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Transparent?,

Scotland 01/03/2009 09:21:28
#10.

There are those who do and those who don't.
Those who will and those who won't.
Whatever Alex Salmond thinks.
He has become the Scottish Jinks.
88

salmondella,

UK 01/03/2009 09:27:48
Nice wee business bekons for minibus "booze cruises" to Berwick, Carlisle and Newcastle methinks.
89

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01/03/2009 11:07:41
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Hairdrier,

01/03/2009 11:21:19
Can see why this will be very 'unpopular' but with the ever increasing numbers of social and health problems caused by alcohol use in Scotland, the SNP had to do something.

Pricing restrictions have been proven to reduce alcohol mortality.
91

alanh,

ek 01/03/2009 11:24:16
#58 ginger nuts
you say "55. No it's a large price to pay. You are telling me that I have to make the sacrifices of my entertainment and leisure time because of others, and that somehow I should be pleased about this?

I am a humble postman, I do my job, get my pittance. Sitting with my mate in the pub once a week, is all I have or can afford in way of a social life. I just don't agree that the SNP making yet another thing ridiculously high is a good move, or is of benefit to anyone. No doubt Kenny McAskill will still enjoy his tipple, on his Ministerial wages."

you can still have your night down the pub, just take the occasional soft drink in place of booze for one of your many rounds perhaps? Or do you NEED the alcohol????
92

Iain Ban,

01/03/2009 11:25:34
To all my fellow nats:

Don't bother debating this with the NuLab stooges here - they're just feart they might not be able to afford their daily hit of Buckfast if prices go up!
93

Rasco,

01/03/2009 11:30:23
#10 dose any Lab activists posting on here no if there is any truth about the infighting in the cabinet about getting rid of Broon,maybe you can keep us posted on this story.
94

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01/03/2009 11:33:21
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old soldier,

Muir-of-Ord 01/03/2009 11:36:25
With the drinks industry being about the only one the appears to be thriving is this not a little fullish. Is it not time education and policing of the laws in place at present should be prioritized. Always being an SNP supporter this move would certainly drive me from the fold its time that Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill wakened up and smelt the coffee
96

Hairdrier,

01/03/2009 11:40:05
There is also the problem of jobs - so this 'right policy wrong time', and taking on the drinks industry in Scotland is a bit like taking on the heroin barons in Afghanistan.
97

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01/03/2009 11:42:57
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01/03/2009 11:43:54
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The Ayrshire Bard,

01/03/2009 11:44:23
Charles Linskaill has obviously been over-indulging in some Tesco special offers before staggering to the keyboard and bombarding us with the usual ungrammatical nonsense.
Stick to the Beano and try to go to bed early Charles. You'll feel much better for it.
100

Arthur G,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 11:44:26
# In the last three months I have attended the funerals of four people who died because of their addiction to alcohol. I do so hope that none of the clowns on here, using this article as yet another stick to beat the SNP with, have any kind of' drink problem'. The irresponsible use of alcohol destroys, lives, families, careers, businesses, irrespective of class, intelligence, wealth or education.

For years some of us have asked for the same emphasis and finances to be dedicated to the broblem with alcohol abuse as there is on heroin, for example.

If this initiative saves any lives, then it is worthwhile, in muy opinion .
101

Highland Mist,

01/03/2009 11:54:38
I don't think the price change will impact on anything. Alcohol is a drug and people will find a way to get it cheaper. There is also the possibility of a black market opening up with this.

This is yet ANOTHER tax. Taxing an item does not, has not and will never, ever, cure a social problem.



102

Americanbob,

01/03/2009 12:11:25
Why has no-one really pointed out the obvious flaws to this proposal,
1. The Scottish Parliament has no remit to increase taxes on any individual product.
2. Even if given the remit in (1) the Scottish Government has no method of collecting any revenues accrued from such taxation, this is the remit of HMRC and any income produced would be collected by Westminster.
3. It is probable that the EU would step in to prevent any price fixing attempted by the Scottish Government as an anti-competitive measure.
4. As has been mentioned in some comments above cross-border booze runs would occur and the Scottish Government would have no method or system in place to prevent this other than setting up border posts which once again would fall foul of EU legislation.
This is an interesting idea from the SNP but completely unworkable and sounds like a bit of kite flying as they must be fully aware that it could never happen.
103

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 12:14:31
105 It won't save any lives, it won't make any difference to people's behaviour. All it will do is inconveneince social drinkers. We don't need more laws and policies to try and change behaviour, if the one's we've got don't work, bringing in new ones will just compound the failure. This is a cultural issue and it needs to be tackled as that. This is a waste of time and will cost the indpendence movement votes.
104

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 12:22:45
"Other measures, such as minimum pricing and a ban on off-sales promotions are supported."

OK then. I'm not voting for any party. Up the lot of them.
105

Escoces,

The Real World 01/03/2009 12:28:23
Some people can't see the wood for the trees right enough. It isn't enough that we seem to be heading for booze ridden grave as a country. Some people, just have to see any attempt to stop it or at least slow it, as an opportunity for cheap party politics. The facts are booze kills and in Scotland this is growing at horrendous rates. We have tried other measures,sticking your head in the ground is not an option. Let's try these or come up with alternatives instead of rambling on about the SNP or anyone else for a change.
106

Escoces,

01/03/2009 12:29:59
I'm not writing all that again get your finger out and make this site work for a change.
107

The Ayrshire Bard,

01/03/2009 12:30:37
#15 and#109. Robert Burns wrote in a letter.. "I have fought my way severely through the savage hospitality of this country, the objective of all hosts being to send every guest to bed drunk if they can". That still appears to be the same situation today and as long as that culture remains all the ban on promotions won't do a thing.
108

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 12:31:41
111 Well yes precisely. There is a major problem with alcohol-related illness. But how about doing something that actually works as opposed to impacting on people's liberty to live their lives ? People don't drink themselves to death for no reason, generally they do it because they are unhappy. Address that.
109

The Ayrshire Bard,

01/03/2009 12:31:42
That should have been in response to #105 and #109
110

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 12:36:20
95 alanh,ek "you can still have your night down the pub, just take the occasional soft drink in place of booze for one of your many rounds perhaps? Or do you NEED the alcohol????"

Why do you think that you have the right to decide that for me? I'm an adult, after all. I am growing tired of the Nanny state mentality of the PC gang who are currently in Hollyrood. If you want to sit there and drink fizzy pop then fine, go hang out at a milk-bar with the weans.

I on the other hand want to be able to afford to go down to my local pub and have and to afford a nights entertainment.
111

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 12:36:55
#105 Arthur G

As sad as it is that your friends died, stop trying to infantilise society. Government shouldn't be a parent. I'm not the most intelligent of folk but I know that taking drugs is dangerous and may lead to addiction. I CHOSE never to take them. It didn't take the governmnet to proscribe them or too expensive. Similarly with fags. Similarly, I don't choose to abuse alcohol because it's cheap. I look around, I read the press and watch TV. Booze can be dangerous. It can lead to addiction and cancer and a multitude of other illnesses. It can make you look like a tw*t in public. If a person chooses to do otherwise, hell mend them, it shouldn't be up to me to bail out other folks' stupid decisions.
112

nick prince,

warrington 01/03/2009 12:37:17
as long as people see a need for the booze, they will get it, either via home brews or smuggling, someone up there said that south europeans have lower prices but less problems, this is true, because these people have better lives or whatever, they just don't see the need for extremes of intoxication, as someone else said up there, we cannot change our culture quickly and so we need a stop gap price hike, it seems reasonable but the perceived and habit formed need will go on.

Some people will, of course, buy less, but they will be the ones who are not habituated. The usual thing is the law of thirds, one third will drink less, one third will stay the same and one third will just get worse. The pragmatic policy maker will say that this is progress but the one third positively affected probably drank next to nothing away. They will make a virtue out of what was just natural.

Habit starts as an invisible thread and each time the action is repeated another thread is added until we have a cable which links thought to action inescapably.

And is if that were not enough, there is the algebra of need as well. Binge Britain is the pattern in the woven carpet of British Society which not even 1001 dry foam can efface, hand tailoring, or a trip to the social carpet store is required, And guess what, there isn't one and so it's tapestry kits all round.
113

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 12:38:15
113 A good quote. I'm not opposed to going to bed drunk at appropriate times. But we seem to have moved to a culture where that is every day of the week for a lot of people. You can't change that by prohibition. It's the reasons why folk need to get out of their heads every night that we need to look at.
114

jkr,

Lochwinnoch Greater Glasgow. 01/03/2009 12:42:12
When the price of alcohol goes up if minimum pricing comes in, the main beneficiary will be the UK treasury as the duty and VAT goes up also. Will Scotland get any of this extra tax income returned? I doubt it.
115

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 12:42:27
Back to my main point. I am not an alcoholic, but I do enjoy a beer when I can afford it. So why in hell's name should I be happy about the SNP making it outside of my reach. This rubbish only focusses on irresponsible drinkers - yes well so what about responbsible drinkers? Don't they also have some rights, choices and personal freedoms?

First Holyrood emptied the pubs by making it hard on smokers, so the smokers got some cans in and stayed at home. Now it seems the cans are going to cost too much. What next?

SNP = Nanny State.
116

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 12:46:09
121

"SNP = Nanny State"

....not just the SNP. Other parties support many of the measures. Homecoming? Aye yer maw.
117

Snails dont like curry and chips,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 12:47:37
Welcome to the world of Alex Salmond and his Caleban - ban everything; take away as many individual rights as you can - THE NANNY STATE KNOWS WHATS BEST FOR US PLEBS SO DON'T ARGUE. Roll on the next election but goodness knows what numpties are available to vote for nowadays - they are all as bad as each other.
118

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 12:47:51
BIG PICTURE. Supermarkets will suffer, Licenced Grocers will close down, the underworld will make money out of selling cheap EU booze (they've been doing that for years already it will get worse). It would be interesting to hear an Asian shopkeer (maybe one of the Asian's for Independence) putting in his tuppence. This is a vote loser for the SNP, and likely to annoy everyone.
119

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 12:49:35
Aye yer ain maw! What other parties support the SNP's maddest idea yet? Go on we'd all like to know. No one else supports this mad idea.
120

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 12:51:36
123

Who will you vote for then? Holyrood brought in the smoking ban - supported by just about everybody. This alcohol "idea" also has cross party support. It's all
p­ish. Team UK are also bringing in alcohol legislation. It would give you the black burning boke.
121

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 12:54:34
If I was rich, which I'm not, I'd be throwing all my money into a booze hypermarket right now just over the border. You'd make millions, in the first year alone.

This reminds me of something I read about teens in kentucky after tobacco was banned, they started to smoke weed instead. So it's home-brew and hobo wine from now on guys, recipe is on the internet.
122

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 13:02:13
125

Read the article above where it says, "Plans to raise the drinking age limit to 21 are unlikely to pass because of opposition from Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems. But other measures, such as minimum pricing and a ban on off-sales promotions are supported."
123

Westfield Bairns,

SNP - SCOTLANDS PARTY 01/03/2009 13:02:25
I think the SNP are right with this policy. I have to admit i wouldn't be too happy paying higher prices, however Scotland is a basket case where alcohol is concerned and its about time drastic measures were taken
124

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:03:50
126. So according to you it's not the SNP that's doing this? Aye right ye are... This is the work of SNP Ministers. Have you read the article above?
125

Snails dont like curry and chips,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 13:03:55
#126 - exactly - none of the current parties have anything radically different to offer - in essence they are all the same which is not good for this country and leavers the voters without any proper choice.
126

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 13:06:31
Ginger Nuts

"What other parties support the SNP's maddest idea yet? Go on we'd all like to know. No one else supports this mad idea."

UK news in case you missed it.....

"The Government is set to force supermarkets to raise the price of alcoholic drinks in a bid to cut down on binge-drinking." April 2008

"Lib Dems call for minimum price on alcohol to stem Britain's booze epidemic" September 2008

OK? They're all rubbish.
127

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:07:29
129. You sound like you'd agree with any policy the SNP put forward no matter how insane. Your way off. Central Scotland's voters will kick this one out the park. As I said already. Why should the responsible drinkers who happen to be the vast majority be forced to suffer for a small minority of hoodlums?

Was yer man McKaskill no' a bit rowdy one time after he'd had a swally, embarassing our nation down in London town. Funny that his signature is on this one.
128

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 13:08:32
127 that's quite apt. Since the smoking ban in pubs I have noticed a massive increase in smoking of the weed outdoors as well as cigarettes. People have decided if I am going to be made to stand outdoors I will smoke what I want. It's a perfect example of how you can't control people's behaviour by silly laws. Ultimately we will do what we want.
129

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 13:08:34
Ginger definitely nuts

Yes I've read the article. Yes it's the SNP's idea. Yes it has cross party support for some of the measures.

I disagree with nanny states. OK?
130

Arthur G,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 13:10:09


#117 - who is trying to: infanalise society"? For centuries governments have raked in taxes on the socially acceptable legal 'drugs' of tobacco and alcohol. Incidentally I notice you mention 'drugs' that you don't take and yet, it appears from how you write, that you don't consider 'alcohol a drug.

Alcohol, is more dangerous and kills more people than all of the 'illegal' drugs put together and this has everything to do with its free availibilty and low cost, but as alcohol is legal and governments earn great amounts of tax off this product, the carnage they cause is tolerated.

You may be have tremendous self-will (to match your levels of compassion for alcohol addicts)which makes you impervious to the temptations of alcohol abuse and the disease of alcoholism but thousands are not. When I started working in an windowless office 35 years ago, everyone smoked at their desks. That isn't acceptable now. People would go out a lunch time and roll back well intoxicated hours later. That, too, is no longer tolerated.

Times change, We do need to address this catastrophic social problem and we need action as well as education.
131

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:11:45
132. This is an example of the SNP steam-rollering an ill-thought-out policy across Scotland. Rather than tackle the thugs and small minority who abuse alcohol, everyone is going to suffer. Mind you (McKasskill again) the SNP is not keen on punishing the louts and thugs who plague our land. You can take your message into the schools, but you have no right trying to take it to adults who have minds of their own. No, Nanny does not know best!
132

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 13:12:07
Anyone else having problems with posting today? I keep getting error messages.
133

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 13:12:43
133 McAskill tipped a Polis hat off and spent the night in the cells. But I don't actually think this is all down to him. It's the anti-drink, anti-tobacco lobby at work here, it's called the NHS. They do have a good point, we Scots are bloody good at killing ourselves. I just don't agree with their solution - but there is a problem.
134

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:17:47
139. Ironic isn't it that the Justice Minister is the SNP's very own Rab C. Nesbit.

People do not like change being forced on them. That kind of thinking is getting into the realms of fascism. Thin edge of the wedge...
135

Micjonger,

01/03/2009 13:18:59
A few years ago,a small californian town tried to implement a law banning "Buy One get One Free" on alcohol.

Notice in shop window before ban:- "4-Pack $8 - buy one get one free". (result = $1 per can)

Notice in shop window after ban:- "4-Pack $4 - minimum order 2 x 4-Pack". (result = $1 per can)

Months later,the law was overturned on the basis that banning "minimum orders" opened a minefield of litigation compared with banning "buy one get one free".
136

Arthur G,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 13:22:54
#133
"Why should the responsible drinkers who happen to be the vast majority be forced to suffer for a small minority of hoodlums? "

So, everyone with a drink problem is a'hoodlum', then?

hood·lum (hdlm, hd-)
n.
1. A gangster; a thug.
2. A tough, often aggressive or violent youth

I'll tell that to a Cambridge educated, friend of mine, who is 'world-class' in his scientific field and who is dying of chronic alchol related problems.

Alcohol is a very egalitarian drug, if allowed to, it will kill anyone, irrespective of Sex, Race,creed, colour, class, education or intelligence.

137

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 13:24:21
140 I quite like Mcaskill although I seem to be a minority of one. I agree with you completely about change being forced on people, it doesn't work. I'm prepared to write this off as the SNP being naive listening to health advisors that are probably giving them the hard sell. As these policies will, in my view, never see the light of day I am not too concerned about it.

I see the realms of fascism more in imprisoning people for thought ctime and wanting ID cards. The SNP don't do stuff like that, so let's get it into perspective.
138

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:26:48
142 Arthur G,Glasgow, Tell that to whomever the heck you like. The whole problem here is about the actions of drunken louts, violent youth culture, and thugs actually.

As I said, why should I a responsible drinker have to suffer for a small minority of drunken louts?
139

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:28:54
142. You are clearly missing the point of this argument.
140

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:39:00
142. In fact it's your sort who frankly give me the boke. What right have you to say whether I should be allowed to drink, smoke, eat burgers, jaywalk in t he street etc.

So you use someone who abused alcohol to the point that he has effectively written himself off as an example, and hold the viewpoint that because of him the rest of us should be banned/prevented from drinking alcohol. Well excuse me, he is the minority, since the vast majority never develop a drink problem. You really have no right to tell people what the should and should not do. We are adults and make our own choices.

By the way, the whole problem here is because of violent youths and thugs who drink to excess. The SNP is just not keen on punishing those criminals though. Yet wants to paint them across all Scots, and make us all pay and pay.
141

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 13:44:13
146 Who is missing the point of this argument ? I reckon you've just volunteered. This is a health issue, not one of anti-social behaviour. And BTW if you want to re-enforce addictive and anti-social behaviour, then the best way of doing that is to lock people up when you don't need to.
142

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:44:23
143. Yet the SNP want to retain the DNA of weans who are not brought to trial in a database. Sounds a lot like fascism to me. Going on the comments I read on these boards about the English and even Scots who do not agree with the SNP, I'm not so sure I agree with you.
143

Freedum, noo!,

01/03/2009 13:44:25
Ginger nuts

The whole point here is the totalitarian society that SNP are ushering in.

Every criminal has a head, so if we cut off all heads we'll solve crime, no?

Being drunk on licenced premises is already a crime.

Being drunk and disorderly is already a crime.

Being loud between 11pm and 7 am is already a crime.

Violence is already a crime.

Serving minors is already a crime.

Maybe if the SNP gave us the 1,000 police they promised and actually implemented these laws we'd be a better society.

But no, gits like you have to follow your stupid cult regardless of the facts.
144

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:46:14
147. Oh so it's a health issue is it, the SNP are doing this for our good. What a load of nonsense. As I said Nanny-state mentality from a bunch of Politically Correct people who are bigger sinners than the rest of us. The man behind it is an arrested drunken lout, yet he has the audacity to judge the rest of us.
145

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 01/03/2009 13:48:17
My calculations on off-sales regarding cans of beer and boxes of wine conclude the minimum price of Miller and Namaqua would be £1.05 a can and £19.50 a box.

Namaqua is currently around £13.50.

Each 125ml glass of wine would increase in price from 56.2p to 81.2p. Cheapest I can buy Miller round here is 75p - 85p a can from the corner shops. Supermarkets charge around 90p

In the pub a pint is £2.45 and a bottle of wine is around £9 - £10.

These increases are hardly earth shattering and I doubt very much if pub prices will increase because of the proposed legislation.
146

nSyratzcGlaw,

01/03/2009 13:48:25
146 Ginger, I dont know what country you libe in but it obviously isnt scotland , unless you are in deep denial.

Worst records in Western Europe, liver deaths soaring, at least one person killed every weekend in Glasgow directly attributable to alchol voilence. The vast majority of scotlands working class see alcohol abuse as the norm, huge amount of working days lost due to its abuse, a cannae be assed and bevvy fueled stressed out environment abounds in our cities.

Aisles packed to the ceilings, every second shop on our inner city high streets sell booze, including post offices, newsagents and garages. sometimes half the floor space taken up with booze.

Its not a vote winner, as half the country is in denial about its drink problem.

If you dont drink to excess, eg treat the booze like any other consumer good, EG toothpaste, frozen pizzas or toilet paper - how does a price hike affect you ?

Finland has been through this as has Norway and Iceland and price hikes can make a difference.

Selling from state run off licences, and these alone is a logical step for a northern european country. Like our neighbours.

Im sick to death with scotlands dependancy on booze. Its a pathetic culture.
147

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 13:48:49
148 Away and ride - the Labour govt want ALL DNA retained, whether your convicted or not. When it comes to infringement of civil liberties they are the ones to watch, big time.
148

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 13:49:08
150

Erm ... he wasn't arrested. He wasn't charged. Maybe he should have been.
149

nSyratzcGlaw,

01/03/2009 13:49:27
150

If you dont behave like children , you dont need a nanny.
150

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 13:49:47
150 Yes there is a health issue, only a moron would deny that.
151

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:51:40
149. What do you mean. What cult is this that you imagine I am in? Those might be crimes (officially), but considering the SNP have not delivered on the police as promised, and are not actually keen on punishing anyone but instead want to open up the prisons and let even people convicted (including people who commited knife crimes) walk free. I just don't see those laws being enforced, anywhere.

Why shouldn't I enjoy a beer, and why shouldn't it be within the budget of a working man, who obeys the laws and is not an alcoholic, or violent ned?
152

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 13:53:54
157 I imagine you are in the cult of the troll. So two of you falling out is quite funny. Please continue.
153

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:57:01
156. You are the moron here. Since, I never once denied Health Issues.

You seem to be the one in denial though. No matter, the SNP is showing itself up for the absolute dictatorial extremists that they are. They have no right to force their policies on law-abiding people. We are not all alcoholics.

Most of Scotland's drinkers never will become alcoholics. For you to tar us all with the same brush only proves how out of touch the SNP are with everything. It's quite insulting actually. You have no right to dictate to anyone.

There is a recession and what little enjoyment people like me get in life is to be taken away by a man who is himself a proven drunken lout and an embarrasment to Scotland.
154

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 13:59:52
158. You are the cultist here. Admitted by your support of the SNP. I voted for you last time, but next time I will vote tactically to put you out again. The SNP will not manage to sell this one to Central Scotland. The people there are not in denial as you claim, since that would mean they are all alcoholics, but they will be outraged at the price of beer and the SNP's action of tarring us all with the same brush.
155

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 14:00:24
STOP PRESS .... TWO FOR ONE OFFER ....

It's now Happy Hour. Post one comment get another free.
156

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 14:02:16
159 Are you foaming at the mouth pet ? I started off saying I didn't agree with this, but in the giant scheme of things it is relatively unimportant and won't actually affect anyone unless they are a jakey. So big deal.

''dictatorial extremeists'' is rather an extreme thing to say wouldn't you agree ?
157

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 14:03:22
160 who are you calling a cult? Watch it.
158

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:04:56
I'm calling the SNP a cult. A cult which attracts extremists and racists. It's an undemocratic cult. Watch it yourself.
159

stainrod,

EK 01/03/2009 14:05:40
the price of drink is much higher in both Luxembourg and Ireland and yet both countries consume more alcohol per head than Scotland.Are SNP proposals an attempt to micro manage rather than tackle social inequality which breeds the conditions leading to a reliance on alcohol as a paliative?
160

ecosseman,

facts not propaganda 01/03/2009 14:06:14
LABOUR IN SCOTLAND LET THOUSANDS OF YOUNG AND OLDER PEOPLE DOWN - THE LOST GENERATIONS-THE DEPENDENT CULTURE.SHAME ON LABOUR FOR THEIR WASTED 50YEARS IN SCOTLAND!
THEY ALLOWED BOOZE,FAGS AND DRUGS TO BE SOLD,WITH NO CARE TO THE PEOPLES HEALTH AND WEALTH.
THEY LET PEOPLE LIVE IN COLD AND DAMP HOUSES,JUST LOOK AT THE SCHEMES THEY BUILT-CASTLEMILK-EASTERHOUSE ETC ETC IN EVERY AREA OF SCOTLAND.
THE SNP GOVERMENT HAVE A VERY HARD JOB IN REPAIRING THE PROBLEMS LEFT BY LABOUR,WITH HAND OUTS FROM LONDON NOT COVERING THE MONEY NEEDED TO REALLY HELP OUR PEOPLE.
ITS A DIFFUCULT JOB,TO RE-ADJUST THE LIFESTYLE OF SO MANY LOST GENERATIONS.ITS NO GOOD SOME SAYING WE PAY TAX ON THE DRINK AND FAGS SO WE WANT HOSPITAL TREATMENT WHEN OUR BODY GIVES UP.THATS THE LABOUR WAY OF THINKING,IT MUST STOP NOW!
ALL PARTIES SHOULD UNITE IN THE BATTLE TO CHANGE SCOTLAND FOR THE BETTER AND NOT GET BOGGED DOWN IN PUNCH & JUDY NONSENSE IN HOLLYROOD.
I WISH THE SNP AND OTHERS WHO SUPPORT POSITIVE CHANGES ALL THE BEST IN THEIR QUEST FOR A BETTER SCOTLAND.

ROLL ON THE ELECTION!
161

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 01/03/2009 14:06:58
Observer. You're wasting your time with Ginger Nuts. He seems to be posting out of panic at the thought of the price of his pint going up at the pub.

Hhfh. Grain price increases. Budget due.
162

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:07:20
162. There you go again, tarring everyone with the same brush. So anyone who enjoys a beer is a Jakey. Is that the SNP line on that? Are yer man McKasskill, and yer red-nosed Minister Alex Neill Jakey's also?
163

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 14:08:18
164 Racists ? Oh I know where to go and find them dear, and it ain't in the SNP.

168 You are right, I shouldn't feed the trolls.
164

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:09:15
166. Spot on Stainrod! I couldn't agree more with you.
165

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 14:11:09
169 Look dummy try and understand this. Unless you exist on giant bottles of cider and beer at £1.50 a pint (in pubs where your feet stick to the floor) -in which case you are a jakey - this will not actually affect most social drinkers. I don't agree with it in principle, but in reality it won't ake any difference. That is my entire point.
166

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:11:46
168. Whatever you say. I have a voice and can say what I like here. I have a vote and will vote against the SNP. The SNP have lost this one already.
167

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:13:20
172. You have just proven your not evne in Scotland. Show me any pub you can get a pint for 1.50. Add a pound to that at least. You are talking krap anyway. Typical Nat.
168

antp,

UK 01/03/2009 14:13:47
as its going to get very dear to drink from the Offy and i cant have White Lightening then i'm going to start drinking petrol as its going to be cheaper.
169

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 14:15:23
Wetherspoons 99p a pint. Begone the lot of you.
170

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 01/03/2009 14:17:06
It's about time that cider was given the same level of duty as beer.
171

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 14:17:24
174 Is that why you are so angry ? Cause you can't find a cheap bar ? Deary me. You should get out more. like I'm about to do. Bye.
172

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:17:27
172. As I said already. I'm a Postman. I am not ashamed of what I do for a living. If you want to call me a jakey then that speaks volumes about you and your SNP, and your views on the average working guy who will suffer over this dud policy. It certainly will make a difference when beer is considerably more expensive.
173

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 01/03/2009 14:19:21
176, Hugh Roscombe. You can't get past the prams to go to the bar in the Falkirk Wetherspoons.
174

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:19:24
178. I obviously don't drink in the 'Jakey' bars you seem to frequent.
175

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 14:21:27
181 I don't frequent them either because they are full of jakeys - try Nico's in Sauchiehall Street. Enjoy - bye now take care.
176

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 01/03/2009 14:21:29
In fact Wetherspoons have had to introduce a 2 drinks only policy for "adults" with kids.
177

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 14:21:49
180

Try the Grangemouth one then.
178

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:22:38
180. I grew up in Kirky, used to be a dry town. So what did they kids do on a weekend - they went to Glasgow and got pashed, or drunk home brew. Then the trouble started. See where this is going? Strict rules and regulations, only encourage worse behaviour.
179

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 14:22:45
Special offer in real ale and bottles of San Miguel in Wetherspoons - 99p. You know it makes sense.
180

antp,

uk 01/03/2009 14:23:14
176, I think he meant a decent pint.
181

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 14:26:13
"As in its non-smoking pubs in England and Wales, Wetherspoon has invested in providing the best facilities possible for those smokers who visit the pubs. Wherever possible, subject to space and planning consent, the company’s Scottish pubs have sheltered areas for smokers, together with outdoor heaters."
182

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 14:27:30
187

Real ale's a decent pint. I bet you're a Carling guy.
183

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 14:28:00
.. or a "Bud" fella ...
184

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 14:28:41
Off for a beer at €2.00 a pint.
185

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 01/03/2009 14:29:05
184, Hugh Roscombe.

Grangemouth? You must be joking. Good Asda though.

The only time I had a drink in Grangemouth was in the Rangers' Supporters Club and I put Mary's Prayer on the jukebox.
186

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 14:29:17
185 I am going I promise, but I remember when Castlemilk was completely dry. I was going with a guy who lived there and he was desperate for the ''last drink''. You don't want to restrict access - that is the worst thing you can do. Have booze available 24/7 like they do elsewhere, that takes away the mystique and people will drink as much - or as little - as they want. Publicise the fact that drink makes you fat and affects sexual performance. Make it un-cool to be bevvied out your head. That's what needs to happen. Prohibition is just silly.
187

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 01/03/2009 14:30:31
Estrella, Hugh?
188

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:30:42
189. You have a problem with Carling Extra Cold? Well you are welcome to sit there with yer beardy friends and your Campaign for Real Ale T-shirts. I'll be over at the bar with my pint of Carling chatting up the trendy totty.
189

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:32:37
193. On that we agree.
190

Balliol II,

Dunbar 01/03/2009 14:34:29
There is a problem but I do not think this is a solution. It is interesting that as far as I can see only one poster has pointed out that the Scottish Government does not have the power to do this anyway.
191

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:34:57
195. Unless it's an auld men's pub I'm in right enough in that case it's a Guinness.
192

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 01/03/2009 14:36:37
There we have it. Ginger Nuts drinks Carling.

Wouldn't touch that stuff with a barge pole. It's bowfing.

193

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:37:03
197. Hmmm... Good point, I was kind of wondering how that would fit in with the Westminster budget? Can someone explain how Holyrood can do this?
194

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 14:51:34
201. No political party is ever completely right. I find that part of the average SNP supporter's makeup hard to get my head around, since they unquestioningly support everything. I'd have more respect for them if they told their leader that he was wrong on occasion, or if some didn't believe he was the messiah or that the Sun shines out of his bottom.

There's something disturbing about any political view were people just obey without question. Or is it just that Salmond and the rest are beyond listening, and wouldn't entertain the notion that they could be wrong?

In contrast the Labour Party are and always have been at war within themselves, many factions. That party right now is generally against Gordon Brown and have a low opinion of Mandelson. I suppose that's the main difference between Nationalism and Socialism.
195

,

01/03/2009 14:59:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
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196

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 15:02:46
208. Aye, wha's like us? And who the hell would want to be? I'll drink to that.
197

Florence,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 15:25:22
10 MELANTHIOS: To dump Salmond would be a very silly thing to do and I can't believe they could possibly be considering it.
198

Americanbob,

01/03/2009 15:33:13
#200 as I pointed out 100 posts ago this is political kite flying. The only way that the Scottish Government could implement a price rise would be to have the Chancellor of the Exchequer increase duty on alcoholic drinks in a budget for the UK.
The hopes that Alistair Darling would punish all of the population of the UK to suit the SNP are ludicrous
and to increase duty in only one part of the UK would be contrary to EU law.
Liquor duty is a reserved situation and as I stated earlier could only be collected by HMRC with the revenue going into the Treasury.
If the SNP wish to lobby Westminster to implement such a rise UK wide with no benefit coming through to Scotland it would be the biggest disaster for them at the polls that they could devise.
199

,

01/03/2009 15:35:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
200

,

01/03/2009 15:41:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
201

,

01/03/2009 15:41:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
202

ecosseman,

facts not propaganda 01/03/2009 15:58:34

LABOUR BETRAYED SCOTAND.50 YEARS OF WASTE.SHAME ON YOU ALL!
END OF STORY.

ROLL ON THE ELECTION!
203

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 16:23:47
216 ''Hugh Bumscombe''A bit bottom-ish that Sam. Is it you that is doing all these posterior obsessed fakes about yellow poos and stuff ? Because if it is, your a royal pain in the @ss.
204

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 16:26:49
214 I think that's a story you've just made up Sam, isn't it dear ?
205

,

01/03/2009 16:30:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
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206

,

01/03/2009 16:48:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
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207

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 16:51:14
212. A classy joint is a place like the Sarry heid, where they serve the famous electric soup beverage on draught. Make time for the wine... Then get picked up by the swine...
208

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 01/03/2009 16:57:46
I keep waiting on all or at least some of our unionists chums to tell us what the answer is to this problem, but just as they seem continually reluctant to tell anyone just what party it is they support, they won't tell us how to solve Scotlands drink problem.

I'll bet I'm not the only one who believes that if the government hadn't bothered with this then the same crew would be bleating about that.

The fact that some can even work a racist streak into their posts says even less for them.

As to the article itself, given the years this has been a problem for all of us, it is not going to be solved over night, nor I believe with just one piece of legislation, it will need revisited time and time again, to be reajusted until we get it right.

Only idiots like the unionists who have posted would expect anything else, although I suspect that even some of them know the truth, although they will never admit it, just as they will never mention that this problem originated, grew and was sustained during many years of unionist control. although they never came up with any answers.

We will all probbly have to make some kind of sacrifice, but if it someday gets us even close to solving the many strands of this problem then it will be worth it, whether the sacrifice is made by soldier or sycophantic unionist.
209

ecosseman,

facts not propaganda 01/03/2009 16:59:13
#201#
#209#

AS AN EX LABOUR VOTER,I USED MY COMMONSENSE TO VOTE FOR THE PARTY THAT WANTS TO HELP THE PEOPLE.YOU TO CAN CHANGE,BUT I THINK YOU BOTH HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED BEYOND REPAIR.
LABOUR ARE NOW NO BETTER THAN THE TORIES!

GROW UP AND MAKE UP BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.

ROLL ON THE ELECTION!
210

Lance Boyle,

Linlithgow 01/03/2009 17:02:21
Congrats to the SNP for tackling one of the three curses of Scotland.
211

Freedum, noo!,

01/03/2009 17:20:24
228

Totalitarianism is to be congratulated now?

Scotland's problem is its people. Scum bags like 228 who want to dominate free and decent people and steal their money.

If I can get a few drinks to watch the footie for a reasonable price. What right does your totalitarian government have to ruin my afternoon?
212

Freedum, noo!,

01/03/2009 17:23:10
France has cheap booze and no problem.

Ireland has expensive booze and big problem.

Yeah, the price is proportional to problem thickos?

Jeezy creezy the SNP are second rate amateurs. MacAskill has a lower second class education, no respectable law firm would take on a recruit without a 2:1.

Byt hey, this is Scotland, if you can't read the law, why not try writing some?

FFS
213

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 17:32:00
#226 ochone

This has nothing to do with Unionism/Nationalism. It's to do with the fact that the Nats, Labour and the Libdems are all leftist. As such, they cannot resist sticking their noses into how people choose to live their lives nd leave them to live with the consequences of their decisions. They all seem to think they now best for people. Drinking to excess / not drinking to excess is a personal choice. It's nothing to do with governments of any colour. All governments should do is highlight the legal/medical/social consequences of it and leave adults to it.
214

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 18:44:32
231 No, not only is this not a nationalist/unionist thing, it's also not a left/right thing. I think it's a libertarian thing. And we libertines can be found on all four squares of the spectrum. Just as well really.
215

yockel,

01/03/2009 18:49:05
Draco 231 Spot on.
216

tornface,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 18:55:02
My mother drank herself to death. Raising the cost would not have made a shred of difference. Whilst her GP was excellent, the uncaring and indifferent response from every other medical professional she encountered was appalling. Perhaps eduction needs to start there.
217

tornface,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 18:59:36
whoops, education
218

,

01/03/2009 19:03:40
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219

Freedum, noo!,

01/03/2009 19:08:31
237 tornface

re your mother dying from booze. She didn't, did she?

You're lying about that and just making it up.
220

tornface,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 19:11:17
why on earth would I do that?
221

tornface,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 19:16:41
I am an SNP supporter, but with my personal experience, I think this is just wrong. Alcoholics will always find drink. They have to. We seem to pride ourselves on being able to drink to excess, but alcoholics are treated like shiit. If we're going to change things, it's going to take more than price hikes, it's an attitude thing, across the board. From kids to medical professionals.




222

,

01/03/2009 19:18:02
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223

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 19:25:47
243 I would just ignore the freedum noo troll if I was you. You've made the good point, that you should know, that messing about with prices/access etc isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to problem drinkers. It's a lot deeper than that, and education about why folk drink and how to help them stop would be far more useful than this stuff.
224

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 19:27:00
sa m, greenock # 245

You are one of the SNP Klan, you tell me.
225

,

01/03/2009 19:31:47
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226

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 19:33:37
sa m, greenock # 249

I bet you still are, as long as their parents don't find out you'll be OK!
While there are people like at liberty Scotland has a problem.
227

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 19:36:39
Sam, greenock all posts.

Fake sam.
228

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 19:36:53
sa m, greenock # 252

You should know S am, can you also tell where I am?

The creepy Spook in Leith reckoned Renfrew, if you get that right, if you get anything right I'll give you £1000.
229

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 19:37:54
Churchill

I see you noticed the space as well.
230

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 19:44:39
Hugh Roscombe # 258

Par for the course with these fakirs, they want to close down debate by whatever means.
Who gains there, I don't know.
231

lulach mac gille coemgain,

01/03/2009 19:57:49
I’m gie’in the drinkin’ up - fae now on I’m just gonnae stand oot in the street lookin’ for fights!
232

,

01/03/2009 19:58:57
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233

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 20:12:35
Freedum, noo! # 261

Is this your definition of "beard?"
"a man or woman used as a cover for a gay partner"

Ref: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=beard
The Spook in Leith will know, he is an authority on such matters when he is not in his hate mode.
234

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 01/03/2009 20:12:45

If Alex Salmond has coitus in the missionary position, is his wife guilty of lying under an oath?.
235

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 20:13:19
251 I must be getting old, I remember hair lotion. I also remember when people drank methylated spirits. It just proves the point doesn't it, that where there's a will there's a way. It's the addiction that needs treated, not shopping for it.
236

,

01/03/2009 20:16:26
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237

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 20:17:32
263 Dunno but if you ever have sex the poor woman will be having it with an oaf.
238

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 20:20:57
265 Tut tut. I would never drink tory wee. It's disgusting, like the rest of them.
239

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 20:21:51
Son of one of Stirlings finest # 263

Did you just misspell"oaf?" Easy mistake!

Observer # 264

The fact that you are still alive indicates that you never drank either. Apparently, coal gas used to be filtered through a pint of milk in the old "closes" to get the same effect as hair lotion and meths.
We have progressed from the days when people were really desperate to be intoxicated, haven't we?


240

IainA,

Edinburgh 01/03/2009 20:22:45
This is the usual leaked report of excessive clampdown, so that when the real proposals are announced they look moderate. Of course, no-ones actually asked the question, what business of the government is it, what where and how much someone drinks? If they break the law while drunk, lift them, if not, mind your own damn business.
241

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 20:26:05
268 when I was at school it was glue-sniffing that was all the rage. I've never really taken up any bad habit to a serious extent. I drink and smoke but moderately, and usually stick to cigarettes. There is an impulse in the human being to extend the borders of conciousness. In some people that goes too far. I don't know what you do about that. But tut-tutting and denying them what they want won't work.
242

ochone,

Sauchie, clack's 01/03/2009 20:29:48
Let me start by once again thanking unionists for their latest contribution towards Scottish independence, they just keep adding more and more.

It would seem that some of us have either forgotton or not noticed the lessons of the recent past.

When we arrived at the 1960's, the prevailing attitude was more freedom, of the personal kind, for everybody, and there was much that needed changing.

So we, that is society as a whole, set about changing it, but the one thing that never seemed to be learned, (as witnesed by many of the posts on here), was and is that greater personal freedom brings or should bring greater responsibility towatrds others, their rights and their needs.

Anybody doubting it, only needs to take a look around them, we have many on here who are perfect examples, they go on about their rights, but I notice there is nothing about the rights of those who have to pay, one way or another, for those who can't or won't control themselves when they are busy enjoying their rights.

They also seem to forget, that one of the reasons we elect governments, well at least in democracys, is to exert, on the behalf of all, when needed, measures of control, to at least try and find a balance between the rights of all, I said earlier that I thought that there would need to be more done than whats proposed and it will take some time, but judgeing by some of the comments on here, there are those who are not interested in the common good, which takes me right back to where I started.

243

Edward Cullen Skink,

01/03/2009 20:35:53
Disgraceful to see Unionist posters behaving in such disgusting fashions that the Scotsman has to intervene in this way.

I do hope AM2 writes this up on his blog
244

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 20:43:22
Prat # 271

I suggest, I want you to, send my details to the UK Police, pick your force. The UK Police need a good laugh and a pranny like you is the best way for Police to access that relief. You will be charged with wasting Police time, pranny. You have been warned.
Do you honestly believe that the UK Police take on-line personae as the real thing?
You are an SNP supporter who is beginning to the see the lies in Salmond's bullstein: don't worry it is a very big club and growing.

245

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 20:46:27
Fakie # 273

You are proved to be a liar by my continuing ability to post here.
So, go to the place that lying fakirs, like you, go: friend of Spook in Leith.
246

,

01/03/2009 20:48:40
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247

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/03/2009 20:53:25
Loonies are out I'm off. Don't fall for the fakirs Churchill just post your views and don't get entangled in all of the personal nonsense. G'nite.
248

Gussie Fink-Nottle,

01/03/2009 20:55:05
# 274 Ahoy hoy Mr Skink, fare thee well old bean?
249

Edward Cullen Skink,

01/03/2009 20:56:36
279. Ahoy ahoy Mr Fink-Nottie

I fare very well indeed. Just enjoying Paisley Pete's moronic missives after he clearly got a wee fright.
250

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 21:01:29
How about the BarL cocktail then? Save the toast and dip it in the orange juice then stick it behind the radiator in yer cell till it ferments. Pished toast.
251

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 21:01:45
ps

Ahoy hoy.
252

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 21:02:35
Churchill

Are you Rufus btw?
253

Gussie Fink-Nottle,

01/03/2009 21:03:41
#280 Is he perhaps on the sauce preparing for another pummelling from Mr Mad Dog?
254

Gussie Fink-Nottle,

01/03/2009 21:10:47
#282 Hola Senor Roscombe, ¿Cómo estás?
255

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 21:11:13
Hugh Roscombe # 283

No, I am not Rufus. Rufus stands on his own feet, unlike, Gussie Fink-Nottle, who gives himself away as Ayrshire Scot and others.
256

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 21:11:50
Muy bien Gussie. Y tu?
257

Hugh Roscombe,

01/03/2009 21:13:34
Churchill

Only asking. Rufus was faked a few months ago and I told him to look for the soft space. You were very quick to notice the space in fake sam.

Nonsensical suggestion re alcohol no?
258

,

01/03/2009 21:22:12
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259

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 21:22:30
Hugh Roscombe # 288

It's easy Hugh, when you copy and paste that name the space becomes apparent.
I think that MacAskill's proposal makes an opportunity for companies, out with Scotland, to supply alcohol into Scotland. That might be his intention, the guy is not being honest if he thinks businesses are naive.
260

,

01/03/2009 21:36:15
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261

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 21:45:51
Churchill W #s 292/3/4/5/6/7

We forgot the most obvious attribute of the Scottish paedophile. That he is is between 18 years of age and 35 and is a well known supporter of, activist, or, member of The Scottish National Party.
SNP = Scottish N£nce Party.


262

Ginger Nuts,

01/03/2009 21:48:08
270. I remember the buzzers in Glasgow. Which only proves they'll do something else if they can't get the booze. I think they'll turn to hobo wine. It's easy to make, I did it myself when I was a teenager. Gets ye pashed for very little outlay. The recipe is on the net (everywhere).

My nephew was experimenting with fly agaric a few years ago. Which grows everywhere across Scotland. It's very toxic and could kill or harm the user if itsn't dried out correctly.

Now people might criticise the fact that I took the time to show him what he was meant to do with it, because frankly I'd rather he knew how to ingest it safely than have him kill himself through complete ignorance with it. Thankfully he got passed that stage in his life and to my knowledge didn't do it.
263

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 21:50:54
Fakie #s

The speed of your posts indicates that you had the texts ready to attack, anybody.
The world is looking at you sleazy SNP supporters. Is it a surprise to you that the world sneers at your deity, Salmond, when he has slime like you as his supporters?
It is a surprise to you, but, it shouldn't be.
264

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 21:52:23
The attribute of the SNP paedophile activist...

He is is between 15 years of age and 35 and is a well known supporter of, activist, or, member of The Scottish National Party.
SNP = Scottish N£nce Party.
265

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 21:53:43
The attribute of the SNP paedophile activist...

He is is between 15 years of age and 35 and is a well known supporter of, activist, or, member of The Scottish National Party.
SNP = Scottish N£nce Party.

The SNP supports pornography and is funded by pronographers on the internet.
266

,

01/03/2009 21:55:48
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267

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 21:57:23
Why does the SNP support the pornographic exploitation of, Scottish, young people on the internet?
268

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 21:58:41
David Murphy, senior SNP activist from Edinburgh, was jailed for six years after pleading guilty to eight counts of indecent assault on children at the home. Michael McConville, from London, was sentenced to 100 hours community service after being convicted of sexually abusing a 14-year-old girl and a boy of the same age at the home.
269

Churchill W.,

01/03/2009 22:02:06
The child protection expert was fired by the SNP after he protested over an apparent reluctance of the SNP to call in police to investigate a homosexual SNP councillor. SNP councillor Jim Nicol,was found with gay porn on his computer three years ago. Nicol was investigated by police but not charged, and was prevented, secretly, by the SNP from working as an SNP councillor in Scotland.
270

,

01/03/2009 22:04:15
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,

01/03/2009 22:12:29
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Zyskandar A Jaimot,

Orlando, Fl., USA 01/03/2009 23:01:26
Have had FRAOCH - SCOTTS HEATHER ALE - and it is truly one of the most unique and tasty drinks i've sampled.
273

AJM,

01/03/2009 23:54:35
Chruchill W, I am not to say the least a SNP supporter, but what do the last few posts have to do with them directly? Apart from the Catholic church was and maybe still is, dragging its feet over the issue.

How does this relate to the issue of the price of alcohol?
274

Orpheum,

Port Coquitlam BC 02/03/2009 00:58:56
#312..How does this relate to the issue of the price of alcohol?
My thoughts exactly..thank you!
275

Belinda-2,

02/03/2009 01:05:42
Changing the age at which alochol can be bought is a very significant proposal that cannot be overlooked, simply because it comes in statute form and is not voluntarily imposed by retailers or pubs.

Once people gain the age of 18, they are adults. Interfering with our purchasing decisions once we are adults sets a dangerous precedent that we may live to regret. It will not be the last time they push the boundaries.
276

Silent Majority is Waking Up,

Edinburgh 02/03/2009 02:41:11
312. Looks like its the work of our old friend 'spook in leith', aka 'boaby dazzler'. It makes no sense at all. Ravings of a madman. Now it seems he's taken to impersonating the Scotsman Moderator.

Same old story with the Nuttier Nats, when they have nothing to add they just hijack the thread. Hope you all reported the creep for his creepy postngs. Maybe we'll eventually get something done, going on what he has posted about his warnings from this paper, the moderator seems to be on his case already.
277

Silent Majority is Waking Up,

02/03/2009 02:44:02
314. I agree Belinda. This one is a step too far. I agree with the earlier posters who asked why they should suffer and bear the burden for a small number of juvenille thugs. Most people like a beer, but most people do not abuse Alcohol. So what's the SNP's problem? Bad policy, and wrong solution. Since it's a cultural issue, any change has to be gradual and not enforced onto the people.
278

Silent Majority is Waking Up,

02/03/2009 02:48:50
6 Freedum, noo!,01/03/2009 00:24:34 "Yes. I think Kenny MacAskill was picked up by the police for loutish behaviour while drunk."

Yes it's funny that he should be the one to chastise the rest of us for it. It's people like that which give Scottish fans a bad name.
279

Silent Majority is Waking Up,

02/03/2009 02:59:29
269 IainA,Edinburgh 01/03/2009 20:22:45

"This is the usual leaked report of excessive clampdown, so that when the real proposals are announced they look moderate. Of course, no-ones actually asked the question, what business of the government is it, what where and how much someone drinks? If they break the law while drunk, lift them, if not, mind your own damn business."

Damn that's a clever insight, and you are absolutely right. This is clearly the 'door in the face compliance strategy' as opposed to the 'foot in the door strategy', I should have noticed this myself having studied Behavioural Science/Social Psychology. So that's their game, cheap Sales gimmicks from a bunch of cheap Salesmen.

No surprise really, Salmond has been 'playing' the other parties for some time. Such a pity Goldie et. al can't see it, and allow themselves to be played so easily.
280

Silent Majority is Waking Up,

02/03/2009 03:15:36
159 Ginger Nuts,01/03/2009 13:57:01
"Most of Scotland's drinkers never will become alcoholics. For you to tar us all with the same brush only proves how out of touch the SNP are with everything. It's quite insulting actually. You have no right to dictate to anyone."

I can't agree more with you Ginger Nuts. Good to hear the voice of the average bloke, opposed to some political drone for a change. No shame in being a Postie mate, good on yer! Whatever happened to Ginger Nuts, I used to love them, think it was McVities that made them? You do mean biscuits right? ;-)
281

Green,

02/03/2009 08:58:23
500 quid a year each we are all paying to clean up the mess of the drunks in Scotland.

That would deal with the funding crisis there always seems to be.

 

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