What rubbish, if Cordesman isn't reading the help wanted ads, he should be.

We over here only know about the British from the news. It seems to me after the invasion they were put in charge of the southern part.

Seems to me right after the invasion your troops were out of helmets, mixing with the population. You were showing that hey, we came here to get rid of the bad guys, we did, now let's part friends and you take over the country. It didn't quite work that way but your troops still do the job and work to get the Iraqui's back on their feet.

I am proud of our troops also but equally proud of this the British army. This character not only spoke out of turn, he also spoke plain lies and put his foot in his mouth.

#2
We have a well tried treatment for those who tend to have foot and mouth disease.....We burn the little boogers. So, Cordesman better not rile us too much.

The headline and first paragraph of this article are incorrect. Mr. Cordesman is a fellow of the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), which is a non-profit public policy think tank. Mr. Brady identifies him as a "senior American official." He is not affiliated with the US government or the Bush Administration in any way. Basically, he is a private citizen doing private research for his private organization.

Nice one, Tony. How about taking a course in diplomacy. Probably beyond your clearly limited capabilities. Or, get an extinguisher and put out the fire you fellas stared.

Entropent said that this Cordesman fellow works for a non-government private think-tank. I hope that is correct as it ameliorates the statement somewhat.

But here in America we put up with a lot of outrageous things said in our public discussion all the time. Here is an article about a nut-case who said that America needs another sept 11 type attack.

http://xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

as you can see if you read the link, this column calling for another sept 11 attack to motivate America to kill more people appeared in a Philadelphia newspaper and there are other personalities who have said the same thing. The Republican party actually sent a memo to many of its top leaders across the country saying that they needed another attack to keep the war on terror going.

believe me - we endure a lot of abuse over here. The propaganda in our media is incredible. we're basically not allowed to think. if we do, then thought-police descend on us. The only points of view allowed to be expressed publicly are those that support death destruction & fascism.

No doubt Cordesman will cause some anti-American sentiment in UK. Perhaps cordesman is so possessed by blood-lust that it does not register in his mind that this is so. Or perhaps even it is his intent to cause anti-Americanism. Believe me, the people who rule us are against us. And they are going to cause our destruction. Just as Germany lay in smoking ruins 6 years after the invasion of Poland, but unfortunately with America the destruction will be much more complete though it will take much longer. The American show is spectacular and massive in size compared to that german show of 1930's-1940's.

Here is an interesting essay written by an American about why it is that Americans are becoming hated around the world.

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0706f.asp

More rubbish for the right wing morons to spout. Cant blame the usa they are the greatest at everything. Yeah Right !!!!!!!

A very misleading headline which is obviously intended to wind up the British with mis information.
Cordesman is NOT a "US Official".

Center for Strategic and International Studies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Strategic_and_Int...

CEO... John Hamre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hamre

background... US Deputy Defense Secretary.... UNDER BILL CLINTON...

no axe to grind there... nope...

this is all politically motivated, by those whose banners are liberal... and who stand to gain significantly from the current agendas failure...

so... they publish things that serve only to "divide and conquer"

what kind of YELLOW journalism is the Scotsman running here?

Well, I just finished reviewing Mr. Cordesman's report (I did not read it all). It is a 25-page analysis of US challenges and practical problems in Iraq with an argument against premature withdrawal.

if anybody is interested, it is here:
http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/080607_iraq-strategic...

The paragraph cited by the Scotsman is indeed part of the text, but to be fair to Mr. Cordesman, it was a single paragraph of a 25-page article. He was discussing the Shiite situation in the south, and made a passing, admittedly uncharitable, comment about the British forces. The UK Defense Ministry is quoted above pointing out that Mr. Cordesman never even went to Basra. But he was not analyzing the British occupation at all.
He is much more harsh with his assessment of US failings than he is with the British.

This is a perfect example of the media taking passages out of context and throwing raw meat to the masses. Cordesman wasn't reporting on the UK effort at all.

Cordesman is not a US official as people have noted. I never saw him as a right wing nut when he often commented on ABC news with Peter Jennings and this observation is from a "liberal". While the British and American troops may not welcome what is becoming a reality in most areas of Iraq, the Shiites and Iranians are establishing themselves. So if we both continue our presence there, our troops better thicken their skins to criticism.

I would also like to point out that the quotes used in the above article are lifted from page 8 and page 16, and melded together to make it appear that Mr. Cordesman has some particular animus toward the British when it is not the case at all. The only reason for this is that it serves Mr. Brady's agenda, which is to show how "STRAINED relations between Washington and London were stretched still further over Iraq last night..." What a bogus article.

page 8: "Iran has steadily improved the flow of and nature of the arms it is sending. Iran also arms and advises a mix of Iraqi Shi’ite actions and militias, playing them off against each other, and has increased the number of its operatives in Iraq. Like the war in Afghanistan, Iraq is not entirely an
internal conflict, and British weakness and failure in the south has both encouraged Shi’ite extremism and partially opened the door to Iran."

page 16: "--The Shi'ites increasingly are turning on each other at the national, provincial, and
local level. SCIRI -- new name or not -- does not have strong active leadership and it is
unclear what will happen to Hakim and his son. Al Dawa is steadily weaker, and
Cordesman: The Tenuous Case for Strategic Patience in Iraq 8/6/07 Page 16
maneuvering to find support from both SCIRI and Sadr, with suspicious ties to the Sadr
Militia (JAM) and sectarian cleansing. The struggle for each major shrine city has
become messy and local in the south, and the British defeat in the four provinces in the
southeast -- particularly Basra -- has created the equivalent of rival Shi'ite mafias whose
religious pretensions in no way means they are not the equivalent of the kind of rival
gangs that dominated many American cities during prohibition. Young street thugs
wander much of the area, stealing and bullying in the name of God."

I think when Dunkirk was propagandized into a British victory was the start of the decline in combat effectiveness of the British military armed forces. They are sending their GI’s into combat with antiquated equipment and training. This is probably their clarion call as a player of any significance on the world stage. After the struggle for leadership among the Europeans it’s ironic that Germany will emerge as Europe’s leader, with the French riding their coattails. The British decline of moral character was never more evident than when the terrorist IRA fought them to the negotiating table. It’s all a bit sad really.

Wally... you said..
"believe me - we endure a lot of abuse over here. The propaganda in our media is incredible. we're basically not allowed to think. if we do, then thought-police descend on us. The only points of view allowed to be expressed publicly are those that support death destruction & fascism."

You are sick..the "thought police"? Didn't know we had them!!
This is what you are telling the world? We endure abuse over here?
I can't fathom how tight that foil on your head is wrapped to say these outight lies...and you will have the low IQ people believing it!!

THEN you give them a link...add a few embellishments which are lies...and hope they believe that. You have no shame.

I saw this guy interviewed..this is not what he said.
What he said was...It would take another 9/11 to being together the factions in this country like it was after 9/11.
He never said we should have another attack..He said IT WILL TAKE ANOTHER ATTACK like 9/11..

The PROPAGANDA YOU PUT OUT is incredible and full of lies.

#6--Wally of Babbelon---not surprising that you haul out 'alex jones, prison planet'....he takes "Stu Bykofsky's words out of context & no link to the actual article, then gives a whole new meaning to the piece.....also there is no "Republican memo"..that's a figment of jones imagination as is everything else...he is a liar, & you continue believing his every word for he hates America as much as you do.....

Here is bob dylan singing 'Masters Of War' with a dramatic video presentation to go with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0ELgFGd2fs

and here is Bob dylan singing the same song at the US Military Academy at West Point in Eisenhower Hall in 1990; unfortunately in this version he doesn't do a good job enunciating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT6jSqQh7qo

this quote from a former CIA Director describes the mass media in the US:

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --- William Casey, Director CIA (Quote from internal staff meeting notes 1981)

here's the US Attorney General (Gonzalez) saying that George Washington authorized the mass wiretapping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG-qwsZkHAc

He's the same fellow who 4-5 years ago wrote the memo that authorized US soldiers to torture prisoners to death.

here's a story about 4 more US soldires killed in Iraq.

http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2007/08/12/ap/head...

Here's a story about the Iranian Defense Minister saying that the US is covertly supporting terror cells in Iraq.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=19279&sectionid=...

Just as Israel was proven to be carrying out bombing campaigns against jews in Egypt & in Iraq during the early 1950's in order to scare jews into Israel, it is possible that the US is likewise supporting terror incidents in Iraq to justify the occupation. Remember, this horrible violence where Iraqis kill other

#17--gniknnif---was that 'home-grown', 'publicly- grown', or 'corporate-grown', lettuce??:)

#11, 13--entropent---thanks for the link.....this article by the Scotsman is much like the one of the unnamed British officer complaining about the 'Special forces'....out of context & unnamed anonymous officer.....great job, Scotsman!!!

as 'Mike-across the pond' posted @10, ""they publish things that serve only to "divide and conqure"".....

#20, Sandy - Sounds as if it might have been 'orgasmically grown' lettuce. Lettuce spray it does the trick!

#16--Lynne---hi---i wonder what will happen to Wally when we win this war, especially after his investing so much in defeat of the USA......he is a pathetic little person that will, no doubt, need therapy...years & years of therapy....

#22--Pictus---cute..

#17---is a troll....didn't look close enough..
original 'gniknnif' uses only one comma..

i take back my response @20...

Lynne in 16 & Sandy in 18:

Sandy said that I didn't provide a link to the actual article by the actual Bush-supporting idiot who said that another sept 11 type attack would be good for America. If you will click on the PrisonPlanet link that I provided in #6, then you'll see that PrisonPlanet did embed a link to that article. It is here.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/columnists/stu_bykofsky/2...

I linked to the PrisonPlanet article because it lists a bunch of American nuts who say the same thing as this Bykofsky nut. The PrisonPlanet article is not written by Alex Jones as Sandy or Lynne alleged. It is written by Paul Joseph Watson who is an English journalist.

Lynne said that bykofsky did not say that another sept 11 type attack would be good for America. If you will click on the original link that I just gave you and read at the top of his column it says,

"I'm thinking another 9/11 would help America"

every time I say something unauthorized the thought-police come out of the woodwork to tell me I can't say that. These people are idiots.

A bush-supporting nut really did say right in a major US newspaper that another sept 11 style attack would be good for our country. Many other Bush supporters including congressmen have said the same thing. And I tell you the Republican party itself sent out a memo to hundreds of top Republicans across the country saying something very similar - that we needed such an attack.

It goes to demonstrate - there are a lot of nuts in America. Lynne & Sandy are 2 among many.

25. sandy

Everyone has a right to their own opinion! You need to stop with name calling.

Wally...how many is many? Do you think anyone would be soo stupid as to send a memo like that to anyone else...especially if it could be traced back to them?
Wally, my boy, YOU are the nutcase with your neverending links and lies, and exaggerations.
Loosen the foil wrapped around your head please...you might be able to think a little more clearly.

Sandy & Lynne,

It's just goes to demonstrate the quote I put up in #19 which I repeat here,

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --- William Casey, Director CIA (Quote from internal staff meeting notes 1981)

Sandy & Lynne love the mass media put on by the 6 corporations that own almost every media outlet in the US. They feel that any thought, any impulse, any sentiment, any idea outside of that corporate matrix is unacceptable, a lie, unauthorized, anti-American, etc. and they seek to attack it like the good thought-police they are.

Lynne saw this Bykofsky nut on tv say something less extreme and so without even looking at the Philadelphia Daily News article she goes and says that he didn't say what he said. Both of them too lazy to do their homework, but not too lazy to watch that boob-tube.

This is how it is in America. The lies are ubiquitous. they're easily disproven with credible and real and unchallengeable sources. But to do so is to act and think outside the matrix. and the propagandized sheeples can't tolerate that. That is why our country is so screwed up and doing such evil things.

These little brown-shirts are running all over squelching freedom as best they can just as they've been programmed by their tv's. What people may not understand is that not only does the US do great evil in foreign countries in its foreign policy, but in domestic policy also they do great harm to the Americans. the people that rule the US are themselves anti-American. Their brown-shirt minions may not realize it, but they too are taking anti-American actions with their support of this clique.

Time & time again Sandy & Lynne accuse me in this manner and time & time again I provide links to document. Perhaps we could all catch a clue as to their credibility. And their side-kick King Nimrod each time I speak can only ta

Lynne in 29,

I have read quotes from Congressmen speaking on the floor of the House who say that our country needs another september 11 event. There have been major journalists in the past say the same as well. this nut in the Philadelphia paper is hardly the first. and strange as it sounds the Republican Party sent out a memo to hundreds of top Republican leaders saying basically the same thing. For crying out-loud Michael Chertoff who is one of bush's top people said as much a few weeks ago and I put several links up documenting that he did this.

You idiot Republicans thrive on terrorism just like Hitler did. The word 'terrorism' was first popularized by Hitler. He used it to describe those who burned the Reichstagg down and his opponents in general. then after the war evidence surfaced that Hitler's own people burned down the Reichstagg.

so if the shoe fits - wear it and stop complaining.

http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/articles/show/137953-%2...

Our country is becoming more & more fascist all the time. They don't use the term 'Next Generation NAZI' to describe Bush & his clique for nothing you know.

Pretty misleading headline.

#28--Kim--that was my opinion......

#32--Shrek oodj----i haven't e-mailed yet...just came back on....give me a 'sign' that i would recognize as who you really are before i e-mail..

later..

#6--I totally agree with the last paragraph. It's better than it used to be, but we're still a long way from where we should be. It's pathetic and depressing how easily the American people have given up their freedom of speech, press, and assembly and followed the Bush war machine mindlessly. People aren't even seeing the war in Iraq was a mistake to begin with, and not just when it went four years without a nice, neat ending.

At least those of us who criticize Bush and his minions aren't considered un-American and unpatriotic and in league with terrorists anymore. At least, not where I am. Me, I think those who give up their rights are the unpatriotic ones.

your unchallengable sources...

like those you site for your "9/11 - thermite" conspiracy theories? oh yeah thats right that wouldnt be a theory... you heard it on Art Bell...

I'm NOT an engineering major... and even I can see the holes in your theories.... heck Ray Charles can see the holes in your theories in a dark closet.... and hes DEAD on top of being blind....

but you go ahead and sit on your Lego-land engineering degree eat your "thermite".... and spin wild conspiracy theories... your fellow "guests" at "the home" find them entertaining....

Mike-across the pond...don't you just love these people? who have the conspiracy theories?
No matter how many times the conspiracies have been debunked, they go right back to repeating them..over, and over again.
Unfortunately, the only thing I feel about them is anger...because survivors and families have to read this dribble.

#46--mike-across the pond, #47--Lynne..

is it possible 'Sammy25' is 'Wally'?....postings are very similar!!

49. sandy

Posting a persons name and or e-mail address is a violation of the terms.

#26--shrek oodj---re-# 49...:)

#51--Babymaker---your correct, i should not have re-posted it....wasn't thinking, as usual?

These are just of few of the ID's I know of that Djookers the troll has been using. Anyone else care to add to it?

Djookers
Sammy25
srekoojd
Mines an 80 Bob
Shrek oodj
80 Shilling Ale

Babymaker - I don't favour a person using different IDs and so here I'll help you to list out two more names that could be Djookers. There may be even more!

Dick "puller" Cheney
Seeking truth aka Seeking Truth Too

#40 Sammy25 AKA Djookers the Troll

Why do you put QUOTES around the word terrorist when referring to the 9-11 attack, that makes it seem like you do not believe it was a terrorist attack.

55. Jacq

You maybe correct with Seeking truth and Seeking Truth too but I think the troll Rainbird turned Dick Cheney's name into the offensive name.

38. Sammy25 AKA The Troll Djookers

"What does 'patriotic' mean anyway? Fly an American flag and believe the lies of your Government?"

Djookers is a classic troll, fanning the flame. Look up the definition under the terms.

Sandy,

As Night Worker suggests, create a temporary email address for yourself and contact us using the email above.

It is important that the new site has balance and that is moderated by a variety of views hence our request that you get involved.

Ignore the trolls here, don't 'own defeat', create an address and email us. We need you and Oliver F as well as others. I hope you want to be part of something constructive and sincere. If you 'see' Oliver F, please guide him to this post and hopefully he will contact us via the address above.

Simply: we would like you (and others) to be involved in the creation of a discussion forum that is relatively free from comment deleting trolls and editors who ban folk for complaining! We need folk from the conservative 'right' to ensure new site is balanced. Going 'live' soon and need MODS to be familiar with the site. A Brave New Venture, hope you come aboard. Create a temporary email address and contact us.

Yes........"yahoo.co.uk" is the end part

57. Sollutions

I read elsewhere in the thread Djookers is also Rainbird!

54. Babymaker

The list goes on:

Troll Irritation
Troll Irritant

54/ Attn Babymaker

I am NOT Djookers

I am ME

I use ONE ID ONLY

OK?

And which one of you lot had my comments removed .... all of them?

46/47 ... are you two CIA agents or something employed to ridicule anything that comes too close to the truth?

I notice that you limit yourselves to the ridicule of alternative suggestions to the 'truth' that you beileve without attempting to explain/convince me why your version of the 'truth' is the correct one ....

56/ That is correct .... I don't .. or at least not in the sense that you mean .....

Sandy,

Did you know that Carnegie's profile includes 'Dunfermline'? Some profiles change over time; EG, to the coop.

Sandy:

The truth is out there. I look forward to working with you, and others, in the new environment.

Please make contact if you are interested.

23/ #16--Lynne---hi---i wonder what will happen to Wally when we win this war, especially after his investing so much in defeat of the USA......he is a pathetic little person that will, no doubt, need therapy...years & years of therapy....

Win this war????

How????

50/ Sorry I am not wally either

The UK should remove it's forces from Iraq immediately.

It is bad enough that we ever involved ourselves in this folly in the first place, but now to be criticized by the Americans for helping them ... that is too much.

#69--thatscottishwoman 2---i made contact 2hrs ago.....& yes i am interested:)

#65--i put a dot com at the end of the one you posted...it worked!!...i'm not sure who got it but i sent it 2hrs ago...i'll try again.....

i'm not mensa!!!!!!:)

#65--ok..tried again...it worked!!
thanks:)

69. thatscottishwoman 2

LOL, you really need to get a life.

If the Brits really have decided to pull out then wouldn't it be good for the beleagured US government at this time if they could start to discredit the UK effort in Iraq? Maybe this is the reason for the release of the story now.

That'sa not the rela story though.

The real story is the failure of the strategy as a whole by the coalition and its terrible effects on the region and beyond.

The western crusade in the middle east is by no means over but its in dire trouble. In fact, Bin ladne is winning I would say.

We have to start supporting true democratic reform to enable the regions citizens, start respecting international law, reduce the arms (small to nuclear)going into the region, increase aid and return the stoeln money. That's more a recipe for peace and stability surely.