there are many ways to skin a cat, and this looks like a good one. good to hear it has cross-party support. It is also the way forward which will attract the support of the majority of the public. 80% say they want more independence in one form or another.

I wonder how real this report is?

"However, leading leadership candidate Wendy Alexander has long supported a debate on shifting more financial powers to the Scottish Parliament."

I haven't followed her career, but it doesn't sound like the history of a leading Labour politician to me. It sound more like a turn-coat who realises it's better to go with the flow.

Finalising proposals would take years. MSPs would then petition Westminster, asking it formally to transfer powers to Holyrood." Maybe they want to talk it away and dilute it down in a committee.

Cut to the chase....Independence!

The Scottish Parliament can already change the basic rate of income tax, but no party dare touch it.

"Wendy Alexander has long supported a debate on shifting more financial powers to the Scottish Parliament"

As long as she never gets to wield them !!!

Sounds like the SNP is following a "pipe dream" 2/3rds of the Scottish voters did not vote for SNP in recent election.

When those 2/3rds realize that Westminster will pull finanical support from Scotland, should the SNP try to get independence. They will never vote for the SNP and independence.

He who pays the piper calls the tune. The SNP has no money, just political rethoric and a historical pipe dream.

Get real SNP

respectfully

Galactic cannibal

#1

I remember a couple of weeks after the election a poster noted the phrase 'Scottish Government' being used in relationship to the executive. Unionists laughed.

3 months later the term Scottish Government is standard - used across all parties and by most on these boards.

'More Independence' was born at 12.32 on the 29th of July.

#6

You are a tool.

A similar margin did not vote for the present Labour government.

If the Scottish people vote for Independence it will become fact Westminister, will have no veto.

You obviously have little undersatnding of this subject

#6

why are u here?? ur not even scottish .. u have no say on this topic and we dont want ur advice, nd btw u just add to the already negative stereotype of the americans.. i.e calling themselves ´galactic cannibal´ haha what a dumbass

InDePeNdEnCe

alba gu brath

It is wonderful to realise that political parties, in Scotland, can see the writing on the wall.

We are not stupid, after all!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#7 I think that it's simply down to a Westminster who have never had to argue at all with Scotland or Scottish MP's. They always regarded the SNP as a minority party, and now they just don't know how to cope.

We were all told by the Unionist Parties, posters and newspapers that if the SNP won they would deliberately pick arguments with Westminster. So far that hasn't happened. An example is this Union Flag debacle. All started by Broon. All Sir Ek has to do is make a few choice comments and Westminster goes into s spin. They will fold on this issue and "grant" Scotland the "right" to fly the Saltire as the National Flag. After all, there is an election on it's way.

"However, leading leadership candidate Wendy Alexander has long supported a debate on shifting more financial powers to the Scottish Parliament."

Surely the report should state what her view is, rather than just supporting a debate. Does she or does she not believe in some sort of fiscal autonomy.

Think the snp should concentrate in achieving cross party support for significanly more power for the scottish parliament and allow independence to be put off for another day. Fiscal autonomy among other things would be a good achievement for a first term.

Sounds like a very good way to talk out the Independence issue if it is to be spread over years.
The SNP is quite right to be pushing ahead with their plans for Independence. The very talk of a referendim will inevitably lead to debate which will allow more facts about Scotland and how her money is misused by the UK treasury.

Misused? 30 years of Oil revenue and still 20% of the population offically classed as poor. 1979: 1 in 8 children officially classed as poor. 2007: 1 in 4 children offically classed as poor.

Let the unioinsts explain that one. Scotland is the first country in history to discover Oil and Gas and get poorer. The above stats are government figures obtained through a video peice in the Herald last Sunday.

#13

Its more independence be degrees!!

9 If you are going to claim to represent the average Scottish view, please learn to spell and to write in English correctly. You are an embarassment.

I hope people notice that the unionist troll, Eddie Barnes, and the Hootsmon, attempt to dismiss what looks like a possible cross-party move as a "bid to grab new powers".

It is, at the least, a move in the right direction, and perhaps it will calm the fears of the wee jessies that are too scared to cross the road withour hanging on to mother's apron strings.

T

#14 "Scotland is the first country in history to discover Oil and Gas and get poorer" A telling fact. I think we are probably on par with Nigeria in this respect, where there is an elite ruling class, and then everyone else who is poverty stricken. There they break into the lines pumping petrol to steal it because it's too expensive for them.

I neither grab power nor hang around in lobbies the english way. We need good negiation, mobilising support from the scottish electorate and clear honest presentation as the new never heard of before thing in british politics.

It's a Jackie Stewart v. Jeremy Clarkson scenario. And who is the better driver by millions of miles.

8. Dougie Dougla, Brisbane

No I am a Homo Sapien just like you dude

Respectfully

Galactic cannibal

9. John1988

Churchill did not consider the Americans negative , when he was begging them to help the UK stop Hitler and send military supplies to the UK.
Which we did

get a grip dude

Respectfully

Galactic cannibal

Sounds like the SNP is following a "pipe dream" 2/3rds of the Scottish voters did not vote for SNP in recent election.

When those 2/3rds realize that Westminster will pull finanical support from Scotland, should the SNP try to get independence. They will never vote for the SNP and independence.

He who pays the piper calls the tune. The SNP has no money, just political rethoric and a historical pipe dream.

Get real SNP

respectfully

Galactic cannibal

#22 The Americans only gave this aid AFTER they got Britain to give up it's exclusive trading rights in countries which were at that time part of the Empire. The story that the US came to Britain's aid to "help fight for democracy" or out of the goodness of their hearts, is just a load of b@llsh@t. That's what they told the Marines!!!

#22 Californian Space Cadet

The term 'begging' infers the receipt of 'something for nothing'.

Lend-Lease Act
A law passed by Congress on March 11, 1941, during World War II, allowing the president to “sell, transfer title to, exchange, lease, lend, or otherwise dispose of” weapons and materials to help defend nations vital to U.S. security. Suggested by President Franklin D. Roosevelt in December 1940 to help countries fighting the Axis.
The final payment of $83.3 million (£42.5 million) due on 31 December 2006 was made on 29 December 2006, it being the last working day of the year. After this final payment Britain's Economic Secretary, Ed Balls, formally thanked the US for its wartime support.

So the help was bought and paid for.
Lesson over.

ON TOPIC
Largely a consensus it seems. Even essentially fundies like myself, see more power as a 'freebie' and so it should be taken. The fact that other parties support this even seems to have registered with Unionist attack dog AM2 who seemed more concerned with the definition of Poverty.

The debate on full independence wont be going away, its just on 'slow cook' mode.
Eventualy people will wonder what the nice smell from the Independence kitchen is, and will want to dine.........

Galactica

I hope your visit to this board/planet is fleeting.

I am picturing a puddle of ectoplasmic greem slime around your keyboard.

Are you sure you are posting from Calivfornia? and not Uranus

#26 Majamalete
Iraq entered the war in 1941.

Trouble is they were on Hitlers side as were the IRA!

You forgot to mention the American anti-war groups that campaigned in the 1930's to keep the US out of the war.

Like Alex Salmond's mates at Stop The War Coalition they were COMMUNISTS!

Maybe the Salmond-istas can remind us who the Palestinians were supporting during WW2.

Forgotten already - eh?

W.Smith.....Oswald Moseley was a Nazi sympathiser. I'm not sure, but given your track record, I think you may well have been too!

The person who continually rants on about only one third voting for SNP , doesn't seem to get it that things can change quickly and drastically in a short period of time.

Only one third of people in the US wanted Independence from Britain when they were fighting each other.
Only one third were royalists, The other third were here in the Americas to make their fortune

America GOT their Independence or mabey you didn't notice, you seem to be stuck like a record, Seems to me instead of continually slagging the SNP you wake up to reality. Your continual whine is sooooooooooo BORING

27. Dougie Dougla, Brisbane

Hey dude, you sound like a little boy who is reading too many comic books.
"a puddle of ectoplasmic greem slime"

Never heard of GREEM slime , is that part of your Scottish haggis?

Chill out dude

Respectfully
Galactic cannibal

Once again, the "Scotsman's" headline writers seem to think they're working for the "Daily Star".

Anybody reading this headline, and indeed the first few paragraphs of the subsequent article, would quite reasonably assume that Holyrood was about to be the scene of a major coup d'etat!

"Grab more powers..." "poised to join forces...." "wrest control...." "power grab..."

I was getting quite excited there, had the claymore brought down out the roof...

But back to reality. What we have are MSP's drawing up a list of powers they would like Westminster to devolve to Holyrood, and they're drawing up a plan which will say so.

So the swords can go back under the thatch again!

30. lorren, usa

I was stating facts which the SNP don't like to, or want to, hear.

Once again in the recent Scottish elections 2/3rds. of the Scottish voters did not vote for the SNP.....Fact

The SNP is living in a historical dreamland.

Hey dude, records that stick, went out with the dinosaurs.
We use iPods and blue tooth, today.

Later Dude

Galactic Cannibal

#33 you said: "Hey dude, records that stick, went out with the dinosaurs.", and yet that's all you've done on this thread. yawn.
As you said...Chill out DUDE (LMAO)

What has little ole Scahtland got to do with you?
All in Scotland are aware that the SNP has approx 1/3 of the votes. FACT Get it? We already know this.

Minority governments don't exist in the USA. They do in constitutional monarchies (that's parliamentary systems to you). Sometimes they work, implementing (to quote AM2) "populist" bills to stay in power.

Later DUDE (snicker)

#34 Dr Who
I agree with you that the Scottish government should stay on track for a 3rd or 4th year referendum on independence.
However, it's not a bad idea to have a separate country within the UK...where Westminster would control defence, etc. That would appease more people, I think.
Eventually, full indepence would be possible.

Whichever way is taken, the process will not be overnight. This will take years to accomplish.

GC 23 - you're repeating yersel dude ! surely better to be independent than dependent. After all, the Lord (and I don't mean Foulkes) helps those who helps theirselves !

#38 - hate to nit pick but the indigenous people of Australia are Aborigines NOT Aboriginals. Dougie is as entitled to his opinion as you no matter where he or I live !

Mair Power Tae Their Elby .

37. Pilrig, Livingston
Hey Dude
The Lord I believe in ain't short of cash

Only 2 brain cells working to night!!!

Respectfully
Galactic Cannibal

For the love of god, please, please, give the scots a referendum,then we can get rid of this nonesense once and for all,this state of affairs is detrimental to all concerned.

#41 GalacticCannibal, I've met a lot of Americans but none of them speak in clichees like you do (dude, aint, chill out). Your exagerated americanisms and your aversity to a (alledgedly far-off ) nation taking its rightful place in the world identify you as a Unionist troll, possibly from California, Falkirk.
There's an advice centre in most cities for compulsive trolling. Go along. They're very discreet dude.

For god's sake all of you please stop responding to Galactic Cannibal's postings. Thank you!!

#27-Totally agree.

"Galactic Cannibal"-you really are talking from Uranus!!!!

Just because Galactic Cannibal SAYS he's American, doesn't necessarily make it so.

Who can tell with anyone on this forum that they are who and what they say they are? All we get is their opinions good and bad.

The only certainty in fact is that Firozali will turn up to haver away in his strange yet spot on deliveries!

Oh, yeah ... and the trolls will be back too unfortunately!

# GalacticC

"2/3rds of the Scottish voters did not vote for SNP in recent election."

WRONG! The system was designed by Labour. The electorate had the opportunity to give the mandate to unionist parties - they chose SNP. SNP was given the power by the people and should deliver on their promises to the extent that the parliament allows.

no ! the quality of the vast majority of the msp s is nowhere near good enough to be given such responsibilities

#36 Colin P

No reason why Independence can't be achieve "overnight". This is how it happened when Norway and Sweden decided to separate:

http://www.norway.org/1905-2005/separation/separation.htm

I have mixed feelings on the independence issue. whether it remains as is, more or less powers or total independence... The same outcome will occur. Prices will rise, the economy will fluctuate and people will complain.
There will still be the age old promises of more policing on the streets, more teachers, higher wages, lower taxes and more jobs. These promises will be the same regardless of who speaks them, be it Gordon Brown, Alex Salmond or which ever overly paid suit is in charge.

I am sure that one day, when i bring my family home to Scotland it will be a different country, with the same complaints and social and economic issues.

dr who

i think you are a bit self focussed

any vote should be put to the british people as a whole

there are huge national interests here

#52 david team

The Treaty of Union is a treaty in International Law. You could as well say that it is a matter for the whole world rather than the "british people as a whole".

Are you saying that the voters of England, because of their numbers, should have a veto on Scottish independence?

Galactic Drivel

You state you live in Murietta, California.

Describe the place to us, not in general terms, but the main shopping centre. (Or as you'd type it, "center.") I know it well.

#54 scottishpeter

No need to SHOUT!

#6 & #23

Where do we get real SNP?

It's great to see some unbiased and unemotive headlines from SoS. If the Holyrood parliament acquires additional powers in a constitutional manner, how is that a "grab"?

#36. You should either be a full member of the UK or not at all. Lets have a vote A 'Yes' vote would give Scotland full and immediate independence and a 'No' vote would close Holyrood and bring back direct Westminster rule. Why are the Nats scared of this?

Voting down a referendum in Holyrood will not make this issue go away. A referendum on the question of Scottish independence is a must, a given - this has to addressed and answered one day by the Scottish electorate. Yoy can't escape that reality.

Well done Galactica - if all said from a distance. Your comments have certainly brought out the intellectual wing of SNP support this morning - a rare opportunity to wade through the more self centred bile of nationalism.

Relax, it won't happen - the two thirds majority of Scots are a lot smarter than this lot.

#60 Rob
I think you should read the article before commenting. It clearly states 'all parties' not just the SNP

I can't help feeling that this is the right way to go. Let's get more fiscal powers first and get things put in place before going the whole hog. I am a strong supporter of independence but let's not rush into it.
It will soon be time.

"But MSPs from all parties say that with the question of independence out of the way," Really ? I mean really "out of the way"?

"I believe this government cannot endure "permanently half slave and half free."

'Abraham Lincoln'

Is that glass half empty or half full.

"The government would say that the glass is fuller than if the opposition party were in power."

"The opposition would say that it is irrelevant because the present administration has changed the way such volume statistics are collected."

Still, half a sixpence
Is better than half a penny
Is better than half a farthing
Is better than none

All seems a bit half hearted to me

...............||_INDEPENDENCE__||
............(#)-----------------------(#)............(.)(.)

I best move out of the way of that Independence Juggernaut.

#54 scottishpeter,

Good morning 'Peter' and' Betty' of course.

Is anyone else a bit concerned like me that in the history of the english empire that in almost ever country that they have allowed to become independant they have left it in a mess e.g. Pakistan and India, Ireland and the North, Palistein and most of the African states...

No. 54 Scottishpeter

Please learn to spell; it's embarrassing to think that a grown man can't spell correctly - and don't shout on the board; it's rude (and certainly not what the Gospa of Medugorje would want). Cheers.

Rather than more taxation powers perhaps Holyrood should take over Work & Pensions. It is illogical for Work & Pensions to separate from Education, Health, Police & Prisons etc. This would allow for a more focussed approach on poverty, deprivation etc.
Incidentally why do nationalists use unionist as a term of approach? Perhaps supporters of other parties should retaliate by calling nationalists separatists.

The more I look at our economic performance and the overall economic performance of the UK then the more I am convinced that Scotland has really no option but to move towards independence simply to survive.

Headline - "Holyrood bid to grab new powers"
then "Although Westminster has absolute power to refuse"

Er, no. In Scotland the people are constitutionally sovereign, not Westminster, and there is also the small matter of the universally recognised right to self-determination. How exercising this sovereignty and right would be a 'grab' only the MI5 agent Eddie Barnes can explain.

#66 The term 'Separatists' is used widely by Labour, so its already rooted in their Lexicon.

# 49. david team

"no ! the quality of the vast majority of the msp s is nowhere near good enough to be given such responsibilities"

On what are you basing this opionion? I suspect you've been conned by the third-rate reporting of the Scotish press. Have you ever written to your MSP? (Mine is excellent). Without checking, do you know how many acts the Scottish Parliament has passed since 1999? Have you ever watched the debates / committees on cable rather than catcing snippets on the mainstream news?

And have you tuned into Westminster recently?

If they could just hang on until the sale of my house in Kincardineshire goes through in the next month I would be grateful.

Once we have legged it the Supreme Scottish Soviet can do what it likes.

And, yes, before you ask or start with the "bugger off back to England" comments, I am Scottish if being born of Scottish parents, raised and educated in the country and generally spending the first 30 years of my life count.

Oh meant to say, I thought that Eddie Barnes standard of journalism had reached rock bottom but unfortunately he has kept digging.... again.

#40 - wins today's prize for Jockinese. He must be a Real Scot!

#28 W Smith
"
Iraq entered the war in 1941.
Trouble is they were on Hitlers side..."

er..no... Iraq severed diplomatic relations with Germany on the outbreak of war in 1939.

What happened in 1941 was a coup by one Rashid Ali & some army generals, followed in the April of that year by an attempt to limit British troop movements. Britain invaded, Rashid Ali fled the country, and an armistice was signed in the May.

In January 1943, Iraq declared war on Nazi Germany.

then
"American anti-war groups that campaigned in the 1930's to keep the US out of the war.. they were COMMUNISTS!"

eh? Joseph Kennedy was a Communist??

(by the way though, Russia, (communists, remember?) weren't on "Hitler's side" either, they were on our side)

And I don't think we want to delve too far into Palestine in WWII; Britain's conduct was less than exemplary I'm afraid, not one of our finest hours.
(Look up what we did to the ship "Struma", if you doubt this.)

None of which, of course, has anything whatsoever to do with this article, but your stirrings and fibs can't be left unanswered.

#72 Robert E - I'm with you on this one. I've had occasion to write to eight different MSP's over the last few months on various issues. Every one has responded quickly, and has addressed the issues I raised.

I don't know what #49 bases his comments on; care to elaborate, david team?

57

I agree that normality can only be 100% IN the UK or 100% OUT.
Anything else is just playing for time .

The SNP are not scared of any referendum.They have nothing to lose after all. They merely presume that their record in office will be sufficient to encourage the Scots into believing that they can make the transition almost without any major upheaval,and not only survive but thrive. Clearly the timing of the referendum will influence the outcome and so far the SNP have increased their poll standing since being elected! Thats unusual in itself. We were all brainwashed into accepting that mid term blues are inevitable.Maybe if you have a competent government with a degree of honesty this does not have to apply to Scotland.

Thats something that Scotland has never had in my lifetime,every single Westminster administration lied to us through their teeth.
Interesting times ahead,even for people like you ,who will never take a pro Scotland line !

56,Royster. Totally agree,there is no other way!

and the loons will have totally taken over the asylum if this goes ahead...

Would not let the Scottish parliament look after a teddy-bears picnic....

We'll be taxed at ridiculous rates, business will walk out of Scotland and we will be envious of Albania...

AM2 wri9tes:-
“The World Bank defines “extreme poverty” as living on less than US$1 per day. But that's not the basis of UK poverty statistics. In Britain, “poverty” is a relative measure – defined as an income level below 60% of the national median income.
So if the median income was £20k, below £12k would be considered to be poverty. But if the median income went up to £30k, the new poverty threshold would be £18k.
The number of people counted as poor can increase while their incomes rise. That actually happened last year in Scotland when average earnings and disposable incomes rose faster than any other part of the UK. The poor got less poor, but more were counted as below the poverty threshold!
Essentially, it's an measure of income disparity. Up to 3% of the population of Portugal, for example, are "poor" even by the World Bank's measure. So let's put things in perspective. We just don't have that kind of poverty”

So that’s all right then.
I don’t know which part of Glasgow you claim to live in, but I realise that you have not lived here very long and perhaps have never had the opportunity or inclination to travel very far from your immediate environs.

You appear to have a basic understanding of the arithmetic of statistics, but no knowledge of the actuality of the meaning of those statistics.
To quote figures relating to the “median income” of individuals within work in the UK , and then to try to relate this to notions of subjective poverty is entirely a false premise.

The price of a loaf of bread, or a pint of milk can be a huge consideration for those existing on the basic minimum state benefits of less than £2,500 per annum, far removed from your idealistic notion that we regard those earning £12,000 pa are regarded as poor.

Look around you, visit those parts of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, and Dundee which don’t appear on the tourist maps and ask the question, “why is it so”.

This

#66 Publius, Girvan for the weekend

You ask:
"Incidentally why do nationalists use unionist as a term of approach? Perhaps supporters of other parties should retaliate by calling nationalists separatists."

I think that unionists are de facto nationalists of the British variety (not to be confused with the morons of the BNP) in seeing the British state as the entity that is most effective in representing their interests, domestically and internationally. I have no problem in being labelled a separatist as long as it means one who want the Treaty of Union revoked, and for Scotland to become a fully independent country.

#80 ThePeter, Glasgae

Your an optimist then?

Where is Glasgae?

#22 At a price which I am led to believe we have only just finished repaying.

#80

Bless... Another economic numptie.

We are already taxed at ridiculous rates, the rate of high growth start-ups is appalling, house prices are stifling growth and driving youngsters out of the market, the banks are in real danger of making huge losses on private equity type deals because others aren't prepared to help carry the risk... The UK/Scottish economy is in a right old mess and just to give us something else to worry about oil prices are on their way up.

There will be no respite from this for Scotland unless it gets itself out from under the massively damaging, short term approach of the City and the lunatics in the Westminster Treasury.

A vote regarding independence is a must but it has to be a straight "Yes" or "No" question.

Do you want independence - Yes/No* (* delete as applicable).

Anything more complex than that is doomed to failure, ambiguity and mis-interpretation. Just look at the complete hash some of the electorate made of the last bin load of ballot papers that got heaved out in May.

Congratulations - it seems the Scots may win the right to have more of their laws imposed direct from Brussels, rather than from Brussels through London. Although in fact a lot already do go direct to Holyrood and to local councils. About 80% of the new laws in the UK now come from Brussels*, and many of them are sent direct to regional and local authorities. Nobody seems to know for sure, but it may be that two thirds of the new EU laws imposed on the UK don't pass through the UK Parliament - not that the UK Parliament could reject or significantly amend them even if they did, and no more can they be rejected or significantly amended by the present Scottish Parliament, or could be rejected or significantly amended by the Parliament of an "independent" Scotland.

* Assuming that the situation in the UK is not much different from that in Germany, France, Finland and the Czech Republic. Between 1998 and 2004, according to the German ministry of justice, 23,167 legal acts were adopted in Germany, of which 18,917, some 80% of the total, were of EU origin, meaning that only one-fifth originated domestically.

Referring to this, former president of Germany Roman Herzog wrote in Welt Am Sonntag on 14 January "By far the largest part of the current laws in Germany are agreed by the Council of Ministers and not the German parliament...Therefore the question has to be asked whether Germany can still unreservedly call itself a parliamentary democracy."

The petition to the Prime Minister demanding the promised referendum on the revived EU Constitution is here:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/EU-treaty-NON/

and an article today by Labour MP Gisela Stuart, calling for Gordon Brown to keep his promise and hold that referendum is here:

http://www.telegraph

#78 - Morris - I disagree that all Governments have lied to Scotland. Mrs Thatcher never, she said exactly what she was going to do and went ahead and did it. Not very pleasant but at least you knew what was coming.

#88 Denis

"Congratulations - it seems the Scots may win the right to have more of their laws imposed direct from Brussels, rather than from Brussels through London."

I agree in Principle with your point about the EU, but conclude that we have a layer of Government in Westminster that serves no useful purpose. It means important policy matters for Scotland, get buried under the "British" interests.

#80 The Petering Out writes:-

“and the loons will have totally taken over the asylum if this goes ahead...
Would not let the Scottish parliament look after a teddy-bears picnic....
We'll be taxed at ridiculous rates, business will walk out of Scotland and we will be envious of Albania…”

I suppose you actually mean “lunes”, and I would hazard a guess that the SNP would not sponsor any forthcoming Orange Walk.

The SNP proposals to abolish Business Rates and reduce Corporation Tax somewhat flies in the face of your assertation of business flight.

You are not very well informed, are you ?

#94 Dr Who I am glad that Westminster has closed down for 10 weeks. It is a pity it it's not for longer. Being an MP should not be a full time job. MPs are supposed to be representatives with real jobs, not professional politicians. We suffer from far too many laws and far too much meddling by politicians.
MPs shouldn't get a salary, just expenses for loss of earnings. Many of them were unemployed or unemployable before they went to Westminster so abolishing salaries would save a lot of money.
The same goes for Holyrood. In some American states the state congress meets for only six weeks every other year. Holyrood should try it. Perhaps Scotland would then be as rich as America.

#89 - But, by moving control from one city (London) to another (Edinburgh) all you are doing is moving the gravy train. To me it is the same dog just with different fleas.

Scotland's electorate is no more sophisticated and or better educated than the electorate South ofthe border. As for corruption, Scotland's politicians (especially local government) is pretty good at that.

People that crave power are generally the wrong ones to have it.

#92 - If the layer of Govt in Westminster is redundant, with laws beung imposed directly from Brussels, would the same not be true for Holyrood?

Surely, with your thought process the logical conclusion is that all "national" governments get the chop and Brussels rules directly?

Makes independence look like a rather hollow joke when viewed in the context of Europe. Roman Herzog's question is very apposite and requires answering, not just for Germany but for all EU members and any wannabes.

# 92 Jim P - "It means important policy matters for Scotland, get buried under the "British" interests." True, but "British" interests are in any case increasingly buried under "EU" interests. In fact there's an article in the revived Constitution which seems to require member state parliaments
to give priority to the interests of the EU, above those of the people who elected them. Anyone who wants true independence for Scotland should keep an eye on the Open Europe website:

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/

as overall they seem to be the best informed and to have the clearest analysis.

It strikes me that there is duality here:

If we get independent financial powers given to us, they are free of us too. Whether the bargain is mutual is the real issue.

However, the Scots are good at finance so I don't think we would waste any opportunity.

It would be interesting though for someone to make the case for why the UK should remain financially together as well.

Perhaps the political parties needs to state the for and against in relation to each of them.

As it is the year of Equality and Non-Discrimination I do think the West Lothian debate should be solved and the Barnett formula too. Fair's fair we can't have our cake and eat it too, I don't think.

#101 - Dr Who - The only problem is that if an independent Scotland wishes to join the EU (and I thought that was rather the idea and previously confirmed by the SNP) Scotland will not have the chance to make a consititution granting Scotland the firm controls you mention. A constitution has already been written for all new member states. This assumes that Scotland is admitted and that isn't a fore gone conclusion.

The Scottish Parliament, if independent, will have to adopt the Euro, thus fiscal policy is tied. Scotland will have to adopt the European Treaty, thus the constitution is written and the judiciary hamstrung, with foreign policy and of course defence, being dictated by Germany and France.

For the SNP to suggest that an independent Scotland would be "free" in Europe is at best inaccurate and at worst deliberately misleading. At least the UK retains some of the opt outs and vetos which Thatcher won. As much as I loath Brown he at least has more back bone than Blair and will fight his corner and this happens to be the UK for now.

As for being a patriotic member of the Scottish community, what exactly does that mean? I presume that you imply that if you are not a pro-independence nationalist you are not a Scottish patriot? As for wanting to beat your chest, go for it, knock yourself out.

Scotland's health wealth and happiness matters to Scotland and the only real way to secure a decent future for the people of Scotland is to be independent of Westminster’s corrupting influences and political genocide.

Labour has killed the peoples trusts, slaughtered the NHS and most of our pension rights. Labour has also lost control of immigration, turned a blind eye to gun, gangland and other serious crimes and corruption ruling South of the Border.

Equally harrowing is the growing disparity affecting access to education and job opportunities for the rightful citizens of Britain. Personally I detest everything “new labour” stands and lines its own pockets with.

I'm forever a Salmond fan whether he gets it right for everyone in Scotland or not Salmond, has real integrity, the man’s open, honest and transparent and will do his unequivocal utmost for an ‘Independent Scotland’ and the people he loves, of that I'm very sure.

Anti Brussel sprout diehard.

#105 - Dr Who - why would Norway want to tie itself to Scotland? Just because they used to come raping and pillaging doesn't mean they will have a guilt complex about one of their old target countries. The rest of Scandinavia is in EU and as for the Celtic Congress... where did that come from? I hadn't heard the Welsh were crying out for separation, then again I hadn't heard that the people of Scotland were either. Perhaps just a few true "patriots" like yourself.

How is your chest?

#109 CJD?

why would ENGLAND want to tie itself to Scotland? Just because they used to come raping and pillaging doesn't mean they will have a guilt complex about one of their old target countries

TOUCHÉ

#64
I think you may find it was the British empire, built with the full cooperation of Scots, Welsh, Irish and English ie the British.
I was also going to point out that when writing a geographic place name then they are capitalised in the english language but I notice that you already know this as you have capitalised all places mentioned except England.
I can only presume that in your refusal to use a capital letter when writing England you are making a childish attempt to show disrespect to the people of England.

What about the Council Tax freeze?

The Norwegians twice voted not to join the EEC/EC/EU, even though on at least the first occasion their government had actually signed the Treaty of Accession. (I can't be bothered to check on the exact circumstances of the second referendum.) As Norway is not in the EU, and it's unlikely that the Norwegians would ever willingly allow their country to be sucked into it, relations between an "independent" Scotland within the EU, and Norway outside the EU, would be determined by the EU. That's why the EU wants a Foreign Minister, even if he'd be called something else for the time being, and a diplomatic service, its own coastguard, its own fishery protection vessels, and eventually its own navy, army and air force, extending in due course to its own nuclear weapons. That's what "ever closer union" means - not, oh we'll stop at this point because 5 million Scots, about 1% of the EU population, object to any further integration and think that they would prefer to run that part of Union territory as if it was an independent country.

The petition to the Prime Minister demanding the promised referendum on the revived EU Constitution is here:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/EU-treaty-NON/

and an article today by Labour MP Gisela Stuart, calling for Gordon Brown to keep his promise and hold that referendum is here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinio...

#110 - How do you get "touche" out of that? Can you explain how England is raping Scotland.

Thanks.

#113 - Cool your jets, where on Earth did the Orangeman bit come in? I type fact you don't like and I become a bigot. All your chest thumping has loosened your mind, clearly. It must be the partiot in you.

Also, please explain where I have, in any way, been racist or bigotted.

Oh and by the way, I'm a catholic, so I don't think I wold be very welcome in the lodge, do you?

If you are demonstrating patriotism I for one can live without it. Just looks like intolerance to me.

All you unionists; you might well moan and groan. This union is entering it's death throes, and you are all witness to it doing so. Scotland, first and foremost...

Catholics/Orangemen... different sides of bigoted coins. Ditch them all.

#120 - I have no doubt the Union will either be re-defined or indeed vanish. What will be interesting is whether it is on Scotland's terms or whether England will beat SNP to the drop and say enough is enough, they can have Labour voted out for ever this way, lets go it alone. Whole thing is probably about 10 to 15 years to go before it all finally happens - at the earliest given that the EU are involved.

A good start to devolving powers to the Scottish parliament would be to deal with the current gross distortions caused in England by Scottish M.P.s voting on purely English matters.

Why don't you start by e-mailing your Westminster M.P.'s asking them to stop doing this. Why should we have to accept decisions pushed through by Gordon Brown on matters on which he has absolutely no say in his own Scottish constituency and where he is supported always by his Scottish coterie living it up in London. Believe me if Scottish M.P.'s no longer had a say in English affairs it would speed up independence for us all. They would become a pointless expense.

#118 CJD

"they used to come raping and pillaging"

Your words. Equally applicable to England as to Norway.

@114

swinney has been 'touring' local authorities in order to put the ctax freeze to them.

However, COSLA have stated they will take no budget hits to fund a freeze therefore any freeze will be payed for by the SE.

#117. Methalions Thankyou int these forums it is so easily to pick up on a single error and be severley taken to task over it.

#111 walter . Sorry I am not a proffesional secretary! Nothing against the many peoples of England.

Point remains..this latest development of "Devloution Max", could be a method to give indepence on the terms of the establishment not necessarily in the best interest of the Scottish people.

oops another error. heavy night last night.

That building never fails to Horrify me ,Its like a 60s Council estate That was bulldozed in the Gorbals decades ago.
124 I agree,I have half my family live in England and they would be just as Proud to carry an English passport as they do british one,

I don't know what lend lease or other WWII comments have to do with this article.

As an outsider I like to read about the independance issue Scotland is going through. My. comments about this article. On independance, I won't tell you how to vote, not my business.

On the WWII issues, saw some half truths here but again this isn't the thread to comment on that subject. I will say thought that Churchill during the crises was a very able leader and provided the the military and citizens with a lot more than words. As for begging, well he knew what real danger Britain was in and was seeking help and I would say he did what he had to do to get help. That isn't in my book begging. He found a friend in Roosevelt but Roosevelt was hampered by the laws of this country and the mood of congress and 60% of the voters. Stalin was never our friend. He used Hitler to gain terrority and to gain time. He then used the allies to take pressure off his army and to gain more territory.

#126 - I have no idea who AM2 is or what he stands for. My own views are quite simple in that Scotland and the UK generally would be better off in the long run as a single entity. The fact that I also believe the whole thing (UK) will disintegrate eventually and be run by Europe.

On the subject of patriotism, I merely quoted your expression that many Scots wanted to beat their chests in pride at their country. You expression not mine. To make you proud though, we are currently leaving Scotland and moving to the South of England. It is much easier to get anywhere in the World if you are on the bus route* when you need a bus afterall and I work abroad. Scotland isn't really on the bus route, is it? A bit like Norway in that aspect, so at least we have matched them there! The patriotic bit is that 2 of my children will be in a school that has classes named after our former colonies, in their case "India" and "Canada". Isn't it nice to know that 2 Scots kids will be educated in classes named after countries that the Scots regiments most famously took? Makes me proud and I'm sure you are too.

* The bus route analogy comes from one of Norway's more successful business men and was part of a statement he made when the Norwegians voted to stay out of the EU. He moved his company away from Norway as he saw them as being protectionist and parochial.

Prime Ministers taking orders from American presidents isnt something new Eh!Churchill,Blair,Brown

Ladies and gents, can we not take a wee breather here. The UK is definately gonnae break up and that won't be a bad thing. But lets no kid ourselves on - all nations of the Union have, overall, benefitted from the last 300 years. It's just that none of us need it anymore. The Empire's gone, there's nobody left to fight, the industrial revolution is over. England needs its independence now, just as much as any other part of these Isles. What we need to remember is that our southern neighbours will undoubtedly be our main partners in everything after we split up. They will be our very best mates and we will back them in almost everything (except probly standing anywhere near US Presidential shoulders!). The whole of the British Isles will surely be the better for it. The split, however, MUST be amicable, and then we can all live happily ever after. Lets look forward to a better future, and stop harping about how nasty others are presently, or were in the past.

# 122 Dr Who - I'm merely suggesting that before the Scots jump out
of the frying pan into the fire they should understand the reality of both, and in particular that the frying pan is already directly over the fire and that the fire is very rapidly getting hotter and will continue to do so. Some might conclude that the most important thing to do is to take the frying pan further away from the fire, and all the sausages - Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish - would benefit from that. But if you'd be happy for 80% plus of the new laws to which the Scots were subject to continue to come from Brussels, even though the Scots were systematically deceived into believing that they were coming from Edinburgh rather than London because hurrah Scotland was now "independent" and at last the Scots controlled their own destiny, then there's nothing I can do about that.
I don't try to "diminish" what the Scots as 1% of the EU population would mean to the EU, with or without the rich resources you think would give Scotland extra clout - I just point out the reality, that the Scots would form 1% or less of the total EU population, rather than 8% of the UK population. Incidentally I'd also point out that under the revived EU Constitution the voting weight of member states would be more closely proportional to their populations, so as a separate EU member state Scotland's fraction of the votes would drop from the roughly 2% level that would be expected from present comparisons with countries like Denmark, Ireland and Finland, to about 1%. If that Constitution was installed then those would be the terms of Scotland's separate membership - nobody should expect any special concessions, if the Scots got them then others would expect them as well. So I repeat that the People's Petition to the Prime Minister, demanding the promised referendum on the revived EU Constitution, is here:

Report Unsuitable

#116
Perhaps your neurosis about capitals is a reflection on your insecurity.

I am not dysfunctional in personality nor mentality.

Perhaps his failure to include capitals is either lack of caring about England other than as a seperation or he is just a s*** typist.

Since he/she showed they had the knowledge to capitalise other geographical name places I can only presume it is not the latter.

You sad little man, get a life.

I will treat that comment with the contempt it deserves.

I read most of the above comments. Some were very interesting and some were kinda childish. The bottom line is I am 58 and have watched Scotland not realy get anywhere while the powers in England never really did anything for us up here except keep control of us and throw a biscuit now and again.
There has always been roughly 5 mil people in Scotland and 50 mil in England all my life. Thats 10-1.
However they never distributed things in a 10-1 comparrison. They would close coal mines and factories in Scotland long before they would unemploy the people down south.
We lost just about all our Shipyards (The best in the world by far).

So now 58 years later I feel it is time for SCOTLAND to run her own affairs and stop taking handouts from the south. We don't need to go to war or be enemies with England but we have to stand tall and go it on our own.

I have spoken to many English and a lot of them think that Scotland does nothing except sit up here begging for everything.

Regarding the 1/3vote, All my life I was told SNP will NEVER get anywhere well they did. One of my classmates became the first lady mayor of Glasgow (I never thought that that could happen)

So now I will be a little sarcastic "The cream is at the top and the sh t is at the bottom...UP UP AND AWAY TIME TO LET SCOTLAND FLOURISH"

#136 CJ0

You cannot be for real!

“our former colonies”, “Scots regiments most famously took”.

Not the language normally associated with someone with school-age children.

Don’t let me hold you back, your bus is due.

Fair enough Walter it's your call. Believe what you will I obviously will never be able to convince you otherwise. No need for insults though. Most childish.

#142 - you must have been off school with jaundice the day they did irony at school. As for history, my 6 year old son is more concerned why McAllister and MacDonald play for the All Blacks and not Scotland. I have explained they wouldn't be good enough and had to move to the other side of the World to get a job.

# 144

Irony is an art, and should only be employed by those skilful in such concepts.

Grammar however, is open to everyone. You should try it sometime.

Last word in comment of 144 should read "game" not "job".

#142 - As for my bus being due, don't worry I took it two years ago. I thought it was better to get on it whilst there were still some decent seats available. Hard life though, the family have joined me in Tunis for the holiday season and they are currently playing in the pool in the garden whilst I am reading the weather reports from Scotland and the hysterical rantings of Eddie Barnes. The class names are true and I thought quite amusing.

112. Los Angeles, Edinburgh

Live with it 2/3rds of the Scottish voters did not vote for SNP .

Hey Dude, If you know Murrieta that well. Then you will know that its old center has been rebuilt. And our standard clone design of strip malls now stand on Madison Ave. that includes.
Wal_Mart who is connumist China's No1 customer.

Home Depot who fired their CEO and gave him a $220 million termination package.
Lowes who support the Democratic Party.

Giant RV who's MH get 7 mpg and help pollute the planet. Best BUY a rip-off for the masses.

Hey Dude try not to sound like female witch.

You are heading to the same place as GC. its called a hole in the ground or an incenerator.

Take her easy

Respectfully
Galactic cannibal

PS : Mona the word is DOG....

Is this an anagram of Alistair Campbell ? Minus the G.

#145 - good to see you have retained your famous Scottish sense of humour.

Last one out switch the lights off.

While it is true that only one third of people voted SNP opinion polls consistently show a very clear majority for increasing the powers of the Scottish Parliament.

And the SNP vote will also almost certainly go up dramatically at the next election, unless the SNP government screws up in some major way, which I don't think they will.

The reason for that is that I think more people will have more confidence in the SNP and many people will go out and vote, who previously didn't, because they will see evidence that their vote actually makes a difference.

By the time we get to 2011 I think there will also be overtly pro-independence wings in the unionist parties. Probably the Tories will be first.

As is often said, independence is a process not an event and stories like this show how true that is.

There would be no logic in ending up at a point where we say OK we'll manage our own economy but we'll leave foreign policy/defence up to Westminster. Once we have the majority of powers of an independent country logic dictates we should have all of them.

#135 Richards,
I didnot do the soviet army a disservice. What I said was that Stalin used both Hitler and the allies to his advantage.

The soviet military, after being purged and suffering great loss were able to push the German army back to Berlin. No question about it, if it wasn't for them then it may have well have happened and we would be in the same boat.

I was referring to the secret that gave Hitler the green light to invade Poland, Russia to invade Poland and Finland. Then in Yougoslavia usint the communist underground to fight the underground backed by the British and Americans and giving information to the Germans as to their locations and names. Then Stalin halted the advance against Warsaw during the Ghetto uprising. During the Battle of the Buldge Churchill pleaded with Stalin to start his coming offense but he held off.

I was in no way taking credit from the Soviets for what they accomplished but was comments were about Stalin and how he used the war to his advantage.

This makes real sense for me - there are many like myself who do not support independence but are not happy with the status quo either.

Decentralisation of power should not just be happening for Scotland only though - it should be happening all over the UK.

More powers to Holyrood? JINGS! Cross-party support? WOW. Go for it Holyrood.
Who owns this newspaper? Your language is very poor towards anything for Scotland.
Holyrood Grabs More Powers - indeed. Are your owners Scots, English or Russian?

#94

Name the 37 pieces of LEGISLATION?

There was not one piece of legislation "slipped in" as you put it..

More Dr Who hyperbole and paranoia.

I am Scottish born and bred, yet I have no say in the future of my country. Yes I live in England, so do many hundreds of thousands other scots, yet we are ignored. This is blatent discrimination and goes against our human rights.

My mother died two days ago in her sleep, having lived a full and active life right up until the end. She lived the first 32 years of her life in Scotland, and considered herself British and Scottish. One of the last things she said to me was that she wanted a vote in a referendum about the future of her country, I want one too, I have a right to one, but I know I will not get it, Salmond and his cronies are scared as to what way we would vote if we had one.

It would not be rocket science to draw up a list of Scots living in other parts of the UK. If I were an Australian living in the UK I would be expected to vote in any election or referendums.

Anyway if you got independence, you would only be running to Brussells for money all the time. Swapping one paymaster for another.

SNP didn't even have the bottle to stop trams when in their power. Lost trust of huge many Edinburgh voters who saw them overturn an election pledge in weeks - they could have stopped but didn't. Should we trust with more power when they were too scared to use ones they had?

If more powers are devolved to Scotland and Welsh assemblies then this leaves Scottish/Welsh members of the Westminster Parliament effectively with little work to do.
They should then have their salaries cut reflecting their lower workload.
Scottish/Welsh members of Westminster get the same salary as English MPs now, even though their workload has been reduced since devolution.
With English MPs refusing to discuss devolution for England it seems that as i have said before, we will get an English Parliament by default,wether English MPs like it or not.

155 displaced scot

You don't write for The Scotsman do you? The lack of a referendum is down to Alex Salmond is it? Nah, even The Scotsman wouldn't write such garbage.

It is perfectly reasonable that if we were able to get a referendum that Salmond will have it when he wants it - that is the benefit of being in power. Every leader does this. So given this fact, plus the great start by the SNP (assuming they keep it up) and the ineptitude of the opposition (bring on Wendy please) I would argue that the SNP have nothing to fear from a referendum on independence. Remember, over 50% were for in December 2006 according to a Scotsman poll.

It's time.

#141 Larry Johnstone

Larry, I'm also 58 and feeling the same way as you. Coatbridge where I was brung up, was Labour dominated. Now Coatbridge in 2007 gave 46% to Labour, down from 56% compared with 2003; SNP was 28% in 2007, up from 20%.

That suggests a real change in attitude which I think will grow. The younger generations are already realising that Scotland can do better as an independent country and are much more confident in the future of Scotland.

Why do we have to keep on reading this "only one third voted for independence", it is such a distortion of reality.
Firstly the election was not about independence, it was a Scottish election in which individuals gave a vote of support for their party of choice, based upon political choice / loyalty.
Secondly there are significant numbers of voters in all of the parties who support independence.
In a referendum specifically on independence, votes of support will be sourced from all of the political parties.
The ICM poll indications are, that percentage wise, support for independence will be around 52%, but with the SNP increasing it's lead over Labour recently, that figure may well be higher.

As for some of the negative comments made earlier about the EU.
A Scotland in Europe means that it will be an internationally recognised nation with a voice, because membership of that union requires it would have to be a country to participate.
This is far more preferable to a Scotland remaining in the UK where it is merely a region, with no voice, no identity, in Europe or the the World.
The idea that one country should be run from the capital city of another country is simply not acceptable.
Independence is something that is gained, the verb we use is gain. It is a positive thing, and every country in this world that has achieved it, cherishes it, and doesn't give it up willingly.
Why anyone would try and prevent a country from gaining it's independence, especially when it is your own country of birth, is just way beyond comprehension.

164 European Scot

"there are significant numbers of voters in all of the parties who support independence"

Absolutely true. The number of Labour voters who support independence is huge. Many Libs also support it, and even a number of Tories. On the other hand some SNP voters don't but the numbers pale in relation to those from other parties who do.

It is clear from the above arguments that
WALLACE & THE BRUCE STILL LIVE !!!!!

#58. Methalions: great new about the flags in Scotland BUT unfourtuntly the hidus flag needs to fly on what has been namd "spesal days!

I never heard Brown was planning a hoilday in Jan to celbrate Brittishness (I do you think they'll expemtus form that one as well, here hoping). All I'll say it better no be the 2nd or Burns night.

Holyrood bid to grab new powers

Dream on SNP, you have a majority of one.
COOL

respectfully
Galactic cannibal

#166. OLDVET : Which one's!!!!!!!

#155
You appear to be more than a wee bit confused.
I’m sorry to hear of the loss of your mother, perhaps you should take some time out before coming back when you may be able to make some sense.

#169. GalacticCannibal: Your a pain!!!!!!

You know very little about Scotland and what it is to be Scottish!!!!!

Please Give us the address of a news paper in Murrieta, California, so may be one day if we're so incredible bored or if your acting odd we can go and repay your favour. Ta

169 Galactic Cannibal

You wrote: "Dream on SNP, you have a majority of one"

Having read a number of your posts now I have to say that your not the brightest. Only had to read as far as the second sentence to tear your argument to pieces:

"MSPs from all the main parties are poised to join forces to produce a list of powers they want moved from London to Edinburgh"

So to explain - the one seat majority is an irrelevance because it has cross-party support.

Eve, whats your problem, I'm proud to be BRITISH, I'm also proud to be English, you Don't have to give a damn! it's another holiday!!

# 164 European Scot - "The idea that one country should be run from the capital city of another country is simply not acceptable."

Unless that city in another country is Brussels, when it's fine apparently.

Notwithstanding which, the petition to the Prime Minister, demanding the promised referendum on the revived EU Constitution, is here:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk:80/EU-treaty-NON/

173. What you want and what you get, is 2 differant matters! "I want, never gets!"

175 Denis

A country with a voice in Europe is preferable to a region of silence in the 'UK'

NEVER MIND - WHEN THE OIL/GAS RUNS OUT , ENGLAND WILL THEN BE KIND ENOUGH TO ENFORCE OUR INDEPENDANCE UPON US.

MANY ENGLISH ARE ALREADY PUSHING FOR THIS - OIL OR NO OIL. NONE LEFT WOULD MAKE THIS A CERTAINTY.

AT LEAST INDEPENDANCE NOW WOULD GIVE US A SOLID FINANCIAl START RATHER THAN A BEGINNING WITH NOT A HELL OF A LOT.

THAT IS _ IF THE LABOUR SUPPORTERS WILL WAKE UP AND REALISE THAT THE LABOUR NAME IS THE ONLY THING THAT IS LEFT OF THEIR PARTIES IDEALS. MANY DEAD LABOURITES WOULD BE HORRIFIED AS TO WHAT THEIR PARTY NOW STANDS FOR.

STILL - "I'VE VOTED LABOUR ALL MY LIFE AND I WILL NOT CHANGE NOW" - EVEN THOUGH THE PARTY IS UNRECOGNISABLE. FREEDOM OF VOTE - ONLY IF PEOPLE OPEN UP THEIR MINDS.

#174. mona: I'M NO BRITTISH and yet UK governing bodies (disgraceful, they way they one of them changed my nationality from the one I told them, Bunch of arrogant bawbags if you ask me) and the eejit at the passport office label me this.

I'm Scottish, and I object to being Labeled Brittish. I wouldn't label anyone anything they didn't want to be!!! So Why should they do it to me!!!!

Mona, don't really see why you care that I feel that being labeled Brittish is a stigma, cause I really don't care that your proud to be it, cause that's up too you (& aren't you luck, no one labeling you anything other than you want to be).

I just want to be labeled as with my true national identity, Scottish. (& Home rule, obviousaly!!!)

#178. European Scot: Aye

179. Ian: I dinna ken!!!!!!

172. Eve, Scotland

Hey Eve,
We do not have a newspaper in Murrieta, Most people here, text on iPhones and iPods

News paper cause destruction of forrests (trees).

Anyway most of the Country rags ,are filled with ads selling Cars and SUVs and large low priced homes.
People generally can't be bothered to read or write. Its the APPLE way.

Eve Don't forget the SNP has a dream but that's all it has.

In their time of choosing Westminster will crush the SNP's dream

Respectfully

Galactic cannibal

Eve. sorry, but we all have to have British on our passports,like it on not, even Alex Salmond!

THANK GOD Tavish Scott is in favour of this proposal! I was afraid if he was against it it would bite the dust.

Tavish Scott who he? Is he the same person as Lavish Scott?

165 tartan army 2222

It's just finding a way of getting some accurate numbers to reflect your comments.
I'm sure you are right, but getting a reliable poll is what is needed, and getting the various Unionist parties to comply would be difficult.

#187. GalacticCannibal: Mare than just a dream!!!!

Good place to start though!!!!!!

Hope
Pride
Patriotiosm
Love for the country & its folk
etc, etc.

Whos the weather in Wishy, pal?

193, sorry meths, a waste of money,has to say British citizen!

#191. mona: SORRY yer self!!!!!

I'm Scottish, I'm only Brittish when I leave the EU cause I can travel with out ma passport, Think I can use provisional licence (Has country of brith as Scotland :L)!!!!

Rarely leave Scotland at the moment so I'm no Brittish, it's my passports that's Brittish you see not me.

It's wrong to label me with a stigma such as that!!!! I'm no going about labeling you with stigmas, so stop your nonce's and respect the fact that if you want be known as Scottish , English , Welsh, Irish then you should be allowed have that label and not have igrantet folk who are happy to be British shove there pro-Brittish mince down our throats.

Most Scottish Local authority councils allow you to select Scottish as Nationality. In fact I think was one of the Dumbartshire councils which had boxes for Scottish, English, Welsh, Irish & no Brittish (pure class I thought). You want to complain to them go a head you'd possible be the only one that does (or one out of a handful of people who would) complain.

Do ye no ken!!!!!!

#193. Methalions: is that no a 100 Kilts!!!!!!!

#197. Methalions: It's difficult to pronuce, by reading alone any way!!!!

Who's about:
Cally-Alba

172. Eve, Scotland

I am not your Pal, but possibly your Buddy.

Respectfully
Galactic Cannibal

#204: Are you alright Pal!!

You seen a wee bit up set!!1

Are you lord Folkers by any chance!!

Have you been at the "nappy an getting fou and unco happy"?

P.S. No need to curse at that nice laddie McConnell, he's got problem way his past to deal with too you know!!

galactic cannibal
george bush wants to democratise the middle east!
george bush overrules the justice system in america with his presidential veto for a man doing his bidding.
if this is democracy you and george bush can stick it where the sun don't shine.
other people have a slightly different version of how democracy works for the benefit of the many not the asshole that started a war in the middle east and had no hope of finishing it.
now that america has successfully alienated half the world what do you think should happen now?

209 Methalions

Have really enjoyed some of your comments. This one had me choking on my beer !

204
i accept that the labour muppets are muppets !
is every body a muppet or are you just looking in the mirror?

190. Methalions

Holyrood bid to grab new powers. SNP dreaming.

Kindly refrain from asking hypothetical questions. Even those questions I am not qualified to answer.

Two working brains cells, for the last 4 days !

Its beach weather every day here, so gulp down a dram of that legal toxic drug you Scottish brew and sell .

Anyone know, how much death and human destruction Scots whisky has caused over the last 100 years. World wide. versus naturally grown cannabis.

The Poppy did not grow very well this year in California , Its our State flower.

Respectfully

Galactic Cannibal

"167. Dr Who / 5:01pm 29 Jul 2007 Not a Unionist or Nationalist.

Unfortunately I cannot find the article that named the 37 pieces that was mentioned in the Guardian but I have found the article from the Scotsman that names them and rates how serious they are. Please follow this link to get the information yourself.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=11775620072

Not one of those is a pice of legislation as you tried to claim - some are consultative documents - some are annual reports that will be digested by MPs during the recess and and examined by the Public Accounts Committee. Out of the 30 announcements only 4 are really anywhere near newsworthy - the biggest being the increase in pension provison for civil servants. That itself was not a decision but a statement of fact - based on EXISTING pension agreements.

"I take it from your reaction you might have to change your forum name to just not a Nationalist although a person who believes it is their duty to uphold the Union would surely be called a British Nationalist rather than a Scottish Nationalist."

Where have I defended the union? I have consistently said that the the status quo is not an option. But then in Dr Who world anyone who disagrees with him is a unionist - you really need to get a new line!!

"Please do not hesitate to amuse us all with some form of defence of this action which reflect badly on Browns Government in Westmonster and gives us an insight into how things have not changed at all. Perhaps you can explain why you would want to remain part of a union that is governed in this way, without inventing nonsense about the Scottish Executive that has been open and honest about its policies."

Firstly this is not about Brown's government but how generally information is often released on the last day of Parliament - it has been going

(continued)

""167. Dr Who / 5:01pm 29 Jul 2007 Not a Unionist or Nationalist.

Another thing you may like to defend is the latest figures on the expenses claimed by MP's in Westmonster in the last year totaling 95 million quid."

These figures will be examined as part of the PAC process and certainly will not go unscrutinised. In any case one of the announcements did state that there would be a further announcement in the new seesion about MPs salalries and expenses. I am not trying to defend these - there does need to be a review on how MPs expenses are reached - that in my opinion is not just a Westminster problem but also a problem for the Scottish Parliament as well.

I - unlike you Dr Who - do not see everything in black and white terms when it comes to unionsim/independence. I do recognise that there are both benefits and costs for both political systems. It probably expalins why I reject both the status quo and independence as for me both have costs that outweigh the benefits.

EVE, YES I'M SHOUTING, I AM ONLY TELLING YOU WHAT IS, NOW, UNTIL SCOTLAND GETS INDEPENDENCE,YOU AND EVERY OTHER NAT WILL HAVE A BRITISH PASSPORT,LIKE IT OR NOT!!!!

212 Methalions

'Specific' direction might be kinder, 'general' could result in dire consequences of fallout for the rest of us.

#221 Ignore this troll - he is looking to get a rise out of everyone - I am sure it is the same guy who was here last week.

Who are you calling a troll? I am allowed to say what i think - just because you disagree with me - you are a muppet!!!

LMFAO - everyone is a muppet to this guy - is that because you are one?

#219. mona: Leve me be I'm no labling you with what you consider to be a stigma, I'd apersate if you'd the same to me.

I'm Scottish

My passport has a diffrent nationality from me BUT one day soon It'll have the same onew as me!!!!!

I see Brittish as being a stigma, that no going to change no matter how much you scream and shout, things won't change I'm Scottish and don't understand your obsession with the above!!!!

#187 galactic eejit

You said, "Eve Don't forget the SNP has a dream but that's all it has."

I seem to recall a very famous American saying very nearly those same words (maybe where you got that from?)
On 28 August, 1963 the reverend Martin Luther King said, "..."I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed..."

Scary, isn't it?

Time for you to be very careful what you say...LOL..DUDE

I prefer this one Methalions:

http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?path=IGS/IGS174/IS3...

'MSPs from all the main parties are poised to join forces to produce a list of powers they want moved from London to Edinburgh',

notice the phrase 'from all the main parties',

looks like the SNP have given the others the courage at least to try and get more control over Scotland's affairs instead of kowtowing to Westminster's decisions

195 European Scot

The Scotsman poll of late 2006 certainly gave a breakdown of their findings. I think page 10 gives more info:

http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2006/Scotsman%20-%20...

Eve,calm down, you are totally stressed out,and I fear if scotland does not achieve Independence,you will totally freak out; it's not the 'B' all to life!

#179. Are you so paranoid and insecure that you have to use large case letters, ie. SHOUT.

Sorry then I read, "STILL - "I'VE VOTED LABOUR ALL MY LIFE AND I WILL NOT CHANGE NOW" - EVEN THOUGH THE PARTY IS UNRECOGNISABLE. FREEDOM OF VOTE - ONLY IF PEOPLE OPEN UP THEIR MINDS."

Nuff said.

ALBA GU BRATH.

Steady Lads n Lassies, a strong heart to a stout brae......it's coming....some of us might miss the bus and be deed.....but inevitabity will ensue.....on the rocky road to TAKING OOR INDEPENDENCE!

#231. mona: I, am calm. (it was you that was shouting!!! & you that was trying to change a concert view)

What do you know!!!!!!

I've never believed in the union.

You don't know what its like to have something fouresd upon you that you feel no association with at all!!!

BUT I have a plan; If Scotland still in the regict union come 2015, It's a secret!!!!

230 tartan army

Those figures are actually higher than I imagined they would be.
Since then we have had the effect of the SNP raising the profile of a Scottish government, so those percentages would likely be even more favourable.
That is very encouraging.
It seems possible that one of the Unionist parties will actually make a break from Westminster.
The numbers certainly point that way.

235 European Scot

I think they almost certainly took a dent during the election campaign when independence was attacked continually by the unionist parties and we focussed on the more important issue of the election and the future of Scotland. As you say, our time in govt will almost certainly be bringing these figures back up again.

If I were to pick a party that would come over to our side and support a referendum I have a funny feeling it could be the Tories. As long as Labour are in power in England they'll never support it, and the Lib Dems - they'll support it wherever they think it'll gain them a couple of votes, but they certainly seem very unionist at the moment. The Tories have most to gain - both on a Scottish and UK level.

Eve. what!!!

#226 Eve

I guess you know that the whole concept of Britishness was started by the Scots who, after the Union, certainly didn't want to be regarded as English. It was a Scot (James Thompson) who wrote the original poem "Rule Brittania"

Why is it that the 'Scotsman' chooses to report (who the heck is Eddie Barnes anyway) positive Scottish progress in such a negative and hostile manner.

'An all party Scottish constitutional convention is to be held... to determine and present the return of sole authority to the Scottish electorate ... a series of powers vital to the success of the Scottish economy and social fabric.'

Where does the Eddie Barnes get the right to call this a 'Power grab' or "An attempt to wrestle control' or 'Leave the Westminister government effectively stripped'.

When will the 'Scotsman' begin to report the inevitable, forward progress of Scotland towards independence ...without bitterness or bias.

#238. Dave in Toronto: I don't care!!!!!!!!!

I'm no English and I don't feel one bit Brittish, Only Scottish, with a wee hint of European!!!

I'm a Scot Nat by nature and nurture!!!! I've never believed in the union and never will!!!!

Never heard that song in my life!!!!!!!!!!

Though I've heard the Corries version of Scotland the Brave though (wish it was a wee bit more PC though)

Eve

Check out this version. It brings a tear to the eye.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK6jHFezO_8&mode=relat...=

#237. mona: What!!!, What!!!!!!

Are you speechless, that I have a back up plan or that my pro-independence stand is concert!!!!

May be it's both!!!

Or may be my spelling went insignificantly again!!!! (I'll apologies if that's the case)

236 tartan army 2222

I tend to agree with you, although not having a Tory bone in my body, it is very strange to do so.
Annabel Goldie does seem to have very Scottish qualities as a person, I wouldn't doubt her allegiance to Scotland, and there is clearly a certain chemistry between her and Alex Salmond.
Whether or not Annabel could break away from the traditional Tory and Unionist position, and go on to create an independent Scottish version, supportive of a referendum, well that would be an interesting scenario.
It would be an irony if the former Conservative and Unionist party were instrumental in delivering independence for England and Scotland.

#240 Eve

I'm wi you. The union has outlived its time. The SNP need to work towards having formal policies for Scotland on all of the devolved areas.

Check this out - it will bring tears to your eyes. I certainly did to mine.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cq7SfSdRoMo

Jim P

Hey mona, before you start get all worried and that I should really point out!!

It's no really a secrete plan:

Am just going to go and live in a country that is ruled within that country and is part of no loop unions (well apart form the EU, which has braw human rights laws and food legislation, shame about the fishing though!!!)

Can't stand the idea of living my inter life in a country that's no home governed!!!

Eve, sorry, but with respect,your spelling is a little wayward!

Outed - a British Nationalist.

"It is firmly in the British national interest that we have a strong relationship with the US, our single most important bilateral relationship."

Guess who!

245,Eve. oh,I understand, well Isn't that a little extreme!

#9,
As I work my way down this interesting debate I should like to read your comments, but I can not make heads or tails of them.
Would you be kind enough to re-post in English, or Scots?

Thank you kindly

246. mona /

Hey Mona the person EVE is dyslexic.

She does a terrific job communicating on this post .
Even thought I think she is really boring.

Mona why don't you run down to the Beach have take a swim and cool off

respectfully

Galactic cannibal

Should have been regional tax long ago then none of this nationalist sewage would have been allowed to float to the surface.

The balance of wealth across the United Kingdom would have lead to a greater grip on real issues not saltires, rolling yer Rs and the opportunist retoric piffle we get from that toad, Salmond.

Really Scotland - get a grip devolution is about being grown ups.

#248. mona: The way I see things is that I don't want to have lived hear and strongly belived in Scottish independence for 30 years and no have it (I fear it may leave me open to curruption, so I'll move before it happens)

As I love my people & my country, Scotland!!!!!

250. guess you are a total tosspot, Eve and I have been talking for some time, so ofcourse I know she's dyslexic!

#250. GalacticCannibal: "Even thought I think she is really boring"

you can talk!!!!

Positivity must bore you!!!!

Would like some negative speech flung in my comments to make them more interested to you!!!!

227. Colin P / 6:51pm 29 Jul 2007

You wrote:
On 28 August, 1963 the reverend Martin Luther King said, "..."I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed..."

Guess what CP .. nothing has changed his dream is still just a dream.

And just like the SNP's dream . In 2050 it wil still be a dream
Respectfully

Galactic cannibal

#136

I'd like a link to the comments by this Norwegian businessman and his bus route quotation if you have one.

It's entirely true that Norway is economically patriotic but I don't believe they are particularly protectionist. A large number of Scottish and other companies involved in the oil/gas industry have set up there and done fairly well.

The difference is of course that Norway has a well supported industrial sector. It may seem bizarre to us but strange as it may seem their Govt and their financial institutions actually believe in supporting their companies as much as they can. But then again so do the Americans, Irish, Germans, French, Swedes, Dutch, Danes, Italians and in fact just about every other country on the planet..

#251 Scotia, beyond reality
Interesting point of view you have.....You do have a valid point about devolution, it is about being grown up and looking after your own affairs. What adult do you know who gives their wage packet to Mum and gets pocket money in return?

252,Eve. can't blame you for that, god luck anyway.

208. thomas, midlothian

Hey dude in case you didn't know . The USA is not a true Democracy we are a Republic.

And I did not vote for that idiot Bush

we operate on a psuedo democracy with tons of manipulative moves. Mostly of a currupt nature.

Yet we ramain the most powerful Military nation on the planet, and the money richest. All that in less than 250 years.

Compare to a communist pit like China or Iraq both 5000 year old human sewers, where people's liberty is crushed.

Is this a good enough answer yfor you dude.

Respectfully

Galactic cannibal

#255
You're wrong about MLK Jr's speech still being a dream.
His people have far more high profile positions than ever before. Colin Powell is a prime example. It is reality in progress.
Independence for Scotland began as a dream, and is now also reality in progress.
Change does not happen overnight. To pore over all the fine details, making sure all pertinent issues are covered, takes years.
May I ask you why exactly do you post on here? Is it to stir things up, as you do on countless other online publications? It's surely not to share your massive intellect.
Respectfully,
Colin

253. mona /

You wrote:
guess you are a total tosspot,

Person of questionable knowledge . What exactly is a tosspot ?

Are they native to Scotland
Enquiring Minds want to know

Don't forget to take a swim at the beach . Where u can cool off.

respectfully Galactic cannibal

And Eve . No I enjoy positivity. But if you call being positive, ranting on like a fanatical patriot , then have at it.
Such a mental though condition is, and has been the cause of 99% of wars in History.

Patriotism flys out the window when money stops coming in the door.

Respectfully

Galactic cannibal

261. Colin P

My massive intellect as you call it . Is all mine but I would not call it massive , just your basic run of the mill American conditioned brain . There are 300 million of us at different levels.

Unlike the SNP and their clones in dreamland.

Happy haggis day

Oh why am I here in this post you ask ?.

I am seeking knowledge and to observe a dream fringe of the Scottish SNP

You are welcome to do likewise, in one of the tens thousands of American rags published daily.
Respectfully

Galactic cannibal

Galactic Cannibal

#262. GalacticCannibal : What are you on!!!!

Have you been reading the Universty of Stirlings student hand book form 1980, when McConnell was present of the student union.

& what do you know!!!!!!

#264
You wrote:
"I am seeking knowledge and to observe a dream fringe of the Scottish SNP"

If that's true, then fair enough. You certainly do not come across that way.
You are making comment on a situation, not seeking knowledge.
We see Americans 'observers' with this same attitude in foreign lands....

#268
LOL

Thumbs up!

#267, Eve

sorry, but shouldn't "& what do you know!!!!!!"
be
"& what do you know??????"

;-)

268. Methalions

They stopped when I was about 15.
Then I found girl friends .

In case you don't know girls are the solution to stop those dreams . And a much more natural way .

Happy Haggis day

Galactic cannibal

268. Methalions

Sorry if you still have that dream problem . Try a girl .

Respectfully

Galactic cannibal

meths, because we do, get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

259 "Yet we ramain the most powerful Military nation on the planet, and the money richest. All that in less than 250 years.
Compare to a communist pit like China or Iraq both 5000 year old human sewers, where people's liberty is crushed." Huh!

America's power is faltering and will soon disappear like the British Empire. Look to the new powers like China and India to make the running over the next 50 years leaving the good 'ol US of A crying their eyes out at not being the World bully any longer..

267. Eve, Scotland / 9:13pm 29 Jul 2007

I have no idea what you are squawking about.

I graduated from UCSD . in California.

Check out the UC Campuses.
If you look at the UCSD San Diego Campus

you will see our Library, a space age looking building , where my friends and I used to sleep after we got back from a beach party.

www.universityofcalifornia.edu/campuses/welcome.html - 19k -

REspectfully

Galactic cannibal

Well, you know yourself.

#271. Colin P : I dinna ken!!!!

I wassney talking to you? I was talking to the Amercain from Wishy!!!!!

So Am a wee bit confussed what you on about, unless you've been talking to your aluter ego #264.

267. Eve, Scotland / 9:13pm 29 Jul 2007

hey Eve the patriot, Here is a link that shows part of our library at UCSD . San Diego

https://tritonlink.ucsd.edu/portal/site/tritonlink-previe...

Respectfully

Galactic cannibal

#276. GalacticCannibal: look up the Sunday Herald, it was on the front page. I'd give you the link but my Internet connections a wee bit doggy!!!!

#265. Methalions: Cause it's fun!!!!!!!!!

I also use a lot of these in comments "()" too . It helps a wee bit with my sentence structure or that's my theory behind it!!!

278. Methalions /

Hey we always thought that numpties were those tasteless dumplings you get in Tiapei and mainland China.

The ones with the pulverized cardboard in them .

So why are you calling Unionists numpties.

Name calling is a sign of ignorance and low level education.

respectfully

Galactic cannibal

I will try my best,to be as brief as possible vis-a-vis article and comment.
It would appear that what is being proposed is yet another fudged attempt by the SNP.through MSP Alex Neil,to set up a set of new ground rules, a new Constitutional Convention a Devolution Max plan.
For goodness sake they have done nothing with the powers they inherited.Let's see some practical down to earth real political results.
I note they propose to cherry pick that which is acceptable to them and ignore, to name but two, defence, and foreign affairs, for a Separatist party these two have to be among the basics of their proposed Separatist, must control foundation stones.

They are, in my opinion waffling, filibustering for all they are worth, in the hope that a maelstrom of flashy sounding clap trap, and sheaves of impenetrable paper work will impress the voters.

Well voters are not as gullible as they think, stop spinning, never mind inventing pie in the sky,talking shop style grandiose schemes.

Come down from cloud cuckoo land.

281. Eve, Scotland

Hey what was on the front page of the Sunday Herald . ?

It that an UK newspaper

REspectfully

Glactic cannibal

#279 Eve
Whit???????????????????????????????

#286. GalacticCannibal : Scottish and awardwining UK papper

#287Colin P : I'm confused!!!!!!!

What did you mean by post #271?

Just a quick thought - Alex Neil proposing this - I thought he was a fundamentalist - I am surprised that he's the one initiating this - any comments?

Eve, it was simply my attempt at humour. You had used 6 exclamation marks when you should have used 6 question marks to ask the question.

;-)

292. Methalions

Hey Dude do not call me wise .

If I were a wise one i would be imortal. But like all other homo sapiens on Planet earth i am not wise.

Thank you very much

Galactic canninal

288. Eve, Scotland

Thank you I found it . But i have no idea what you are talking about on its front page ..
They have a wierd link about a Wild West Town in the Amazon

My computer system is connected to FO (Fibre Optic) internet . So i have no problem with speed of uploads or downloads .
But i failed to find the Page in the SH you are talking about.

Hey on rare occasions i can get serious ,
But i need that 3rd brain cell to kick in.

Adios

Galactic cannibal

#296 AM2
I think you're well aware that Scotland welcomes incomers with open arms. The more constructive influence Scotland can get, experience also, from immigrants, the better off we will be as a nation.
I welcome your posts to the threads. You make me think about your point of view. I do agree with you, sometimes.
That's one of the benefits of living here, we can disagree.
You must, however, recognise the fact that sometimes you irritate other posters.
:-)

#291. Colin P: awh!!!

I didn't get that I wasn't taught grammer or puctuation in school (was allways getting take out of English classes at school,durring thoes lessons) so I just gess, were things, go, some time I get it right other time I get it wroung. This obvousely an example of a time I get it wroung.

#299 Eve

Fair enough.

I think this is a fantastic proposal. Not only will it conflict, big time, with the integrity of the political union of the UK, thereby fatally wounding it and hastening independence.

Any further devolution of power, to Scotland will sink the Union. It is amusing that Unionist politicians in Scotland, don't have an ounce of intelligence to see that. Somebody said that the gate to independence opened a few years back and the sheep are beginning to meander through. How true that is of the Liblab con, that represents the last gasp of Britishness and Unionism in our country.

Equivalently, it is amazing to think that it will probably be Unionists and Unionist politicians who end the Union, given current trends.

For: GalacticCannibal, Murrieta, California The Golden State. - And for those in Scotland who are (as yet) unaware.

California will very soon have a majority of its population from Mexico. There is a solid minority of recent immigrants, and "latinos/lationas" born there who favour re-joining Mexico. (California was stolen from Mexico). Further north there is serious discussion concerning a union between Washington and Oragon in the US, and British Columbia and Alberta in Canada. This means that the USA is far from being secure, and Alaska is also part of these discussions. The American "Pacific Northwest" used to be part of what is now Canada.

I'm bothering to write this because "GalacticCannibal" is clearly sitting on a fault line in more ways that the obvious. The world is always changing, it is never stable. The SNP is clearly going to win, as is therefore Scotland. Empires come and go, but usually their fundamental components survive and continue as themselves. The US empire is changing too, and "GalacticCannibal" better learn to speak Spanish - or is he one of the rednecks who opine that "If English was good enough for Jesus it's good enough for me!"

Unless I have got it all wrong, the parliament we have is a re-constituted parliament having been placed in abeyance some 300 years ago.
To patronise the institution by selecting which powers were to be re-instated, not transfered, shows the typical arrogance and paternalism displayed over the U.K.'s subjects as a whole by the U.K. parliament.
If the MP's operating out of the Parliament of Scotland had any backbone whatsoever they would merely vote to adopt whatever powers they required to run their country and institute them. If this set up issues with the U.K. parliament then fine, they could be worked out, in time.
Scotland having the good luck to have a small population need never inherit the beaurocracy of a country with 50 million plus and could conceivable do very well in time once it had shaken off the shackles of ties to England.
Nor, need Scotland join the Euro, nor indeed the E.U. but with special trading rights and pegged currencies could again, in time, become and economic powerhouse.
This is a view I have long held and keeps being re-inforced each time I look at the subject.

The assumption that the SNP is clearly going to win is on par with someone who say the Labour Party are clearly going to win the next election.

I'd never bank on anything being certain in politics.

303. MacIan /

Hey Dude I agree with almost all of your post . Except that you fell into a common trap of assuming.

You know nothing about me , aside from what i post and that could be all lies.

but back to your assumption. I speak Spanish and some french.

As for the Mexicans they are in California, because of the curruption in Mexico in their Governmant and all aspects of their lives.

The richest man in the world in no longer Bill Gates its a Mmexican dude , living in Mexico City.

The only real problem facing California is to have adequate suppy of water and hopefully the Geo Plates stay asleep.
As for the Mexicans taking it back .they better recall Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Or South of the Border will be incenerated TACOS.

Happy Haggis Day and with a pen name like MacIan you must be of Scottish decent .
(assumption)

Respectfully
Galactic cannibal

Well said #303.

One can add native land claims here in Canada to that mix. Their influence on oil pipeline supplies, and other trans border issues are significant

The SNP will win the right to self determination,it is just a matter of when.

It will be interesting to see if politicians will see to it that Scots born individuals living overseas.

Who hold UK ( Euro) passports can vote on the independence issue. It would be interesting to put that in the mix.

All the best.

300. Eve, Scotland

Wow a real person went out of their way to send a real link.

Hey dudess thanks very much.

As a matter of fact I had already opened that link in the SH. but I thought you were referring to the Library I spoke about at UCSD.

McConnell allegedly said in 1978 stuff , that’s common every day events today.
Except for what seems to be his back peddling. That in my book would make him a hypocrite.

Again thanks for the link

Respectfully
galactic cannibal

#105 Not a snowballs chance in Hell of your Walter Mitty scenario

#309 Not unless Shetland secedes from an independent Scotland to link with its historical overlord . . .

G,Day Lads and Lassies.
Let's make a pact.
I suggest we no longer respond to that loony GC.
He is either affected by some funny substance or else someone has smuggled a computer into his padded cell.
Whatever the reason, we should shut him out by not commenting on his posts.
He does not understand the basic fact that a Scot is a Scot regardless of where he lives.

That's it, I'm off to chuck another Roo on the Barbie!

Wiz

Nell from Falkirk (comment 75) wrote:

"None of which, of course, has anything whatsoever to do with this article, but your stirrings and fibs can't be left unanswered."

Beannachdan ort. A blessing on you. This sort of high regard for Truth is praiseworthy.

On the matter of the article itself, I agree with some of the other posters here, in that this prolonged debate over additional devolution is just an attempt to keep the matter of Independence from being addressed. Scotland doesn't need more scraps from the table of Westmonster. Scotland needs Sovereignty and Independence.

#89. You are naive. This is pipedream stuff. Low taxation is good but at 10% I don't think there will be much left of the NHS in Scotland.

#307. You'll have to be resident in Scotland to vote. That's a given.

Or rather 'legally resident' and meeting all the requirements of a registered voter.

Dr Who you kick ass,Dr Who for first minister

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

I have read all DR Whos comments and he has never said anything like that so yet again YES YES YES YES DR WHO for first minister

tell me the comment number please and i will stand corrected but i still think DR Who has a good grasp of the matters at hand,we need to wake up as a nation and stop being led by the hand bya goverment that does not give a sh.t about Scotland.

# 304 SlyFifer -

"Unless I have got it all wrong, the parliament we have is a re-constituted parliament having been placed in abeyance some 300 years ago."

Yes, you've got it all wrong. The previous parliament was a sovereign parliament; the present parliament is not the same sovereign parliament re-constituted, it is the creature of the sovereign UK Parliament, and it is no more a sovereign body than a local council. In fact as far as the EU is concerned, it's just a regional assembly, part of the top tier of the EU's local government, eventually to be subordinated entirely to Brussels.

well i see comment 113 has been removed before i got a chance to reed it so i cannot comment on that as i cannot read it i stand by my earlier postings.OH i just got back today to read Sundays paper good climbing in the alps

It is absolutely essential to have "National pride". hardy souls overcome great odds by the application of character systemic with being proud.
Scots always had what it takes to accept and promote independent thought and action, SNP are our elected leaders and are all-ready forging ahead and preparing our Nation for a much needed debate, to enable us to reach a democratic con-census. the process will promote the committed citizens desire for National pride, without which no country can survive. Go SNP

All very nice,respectable and friendly....it would seem that msps are happy to call for more powers for Holyrood,on condition that Westminster agrees and that no one in London is upset or put out by any of it.....it,s about time these msps got up off their knees !

how true

As to the comments that were made by number 2 Britain did ask for aid and we got it and we paid every penny for it

#330. pencildick: What!!!!!

#330. pencildick: P.S. This website is alot calmer!!!!

Power grab? These crumbs of powers--"over responsibility for broadcasting and energy and marine policy"--won't fuel much beyond print by hacks at Scotsman.com.

#6

Yeah just a historical pipe dream. 4th July such a big joke as well!

I like Galactic Cannibal. He keeps things lively.

The English should not have a say in your independence vote.

If you stay with them, you will be poorer than ever. It appears to me that their policies have been made to keep you down and out. We also know that poverty breeds vice, and that will most likely lessen when you are free and use your minds and resources to strengthen your country instead of allowing the fat cats from below the border to drink more of your cream.

GC:

I don't know what "numptie" is, either, but the dumplings are "jiaozi" in China, "mandu" in Korean, and "manti" in Crimean Tatar and Turkish. "Kunmandu" is Korean for the roasted ones.

#188:

Loved your comment!

Gallactic Cannibal mentions "dreams" alot, and he's certainly in a dream world regarding Americas military strength.

The mighty US military has failed abjectly in it's attempts to capture OBL, is struggling to contain a resurgent Taliban, and cannot even subdue Baghdad, a single solitary city, never mind defeat the whole of Iraq. The US military cannot even secure the Green Zone, which is subject to indirect but deadly fire daily.

Far from being the "most powerful military on the planet", the US military could more accurately be described as the most over-rated, underperforming military on the planet.

Dream on Gallactic Cannabis.