if Scottish MPs are denied votes on English matters, how can Gordon brown continue to be prime minister?

Here is a problem for them. How do you prevent a duly elected MP to Westminster from entering the chamber and voting. It would have to be on a voluntary basis. Or are we talking about Oliver Cromwell again??

What with Westminster saying they won't give the 400m on council tax rebate, then they will scrap the Barnett formula. It looks like Westminster just cannot handle an SNP Government and is spinning out of control. Dear old Gordon seems to be doing quite well at damaging "The Union" without and SNP help at all.

If there are more devolved powers to the Scottish Government, and Scottish MP's can't vote on "English" issues, then why have Scottish MP's??

Also, where does this leave the overriding veto of the Westminster Parliament over the Scottish Parliament.

The sooner there is an English Parliament, separate from Westminster, the better. I think the people of England should be demanding that. Certainly the people of Scotland (and Wales and NI) should be demanding that an English Parliament HAS to be separate from Westminster. What I fear Brown is trying to do is set up Westminster AS the English Parliament, but with it's finger in the Scottish, Welsh and NI parliaments too.

It is about time England had a referendum on its own parliament.
It is the only solution to the west lothian question.
Disallowing Scottish MPs voting on English only matters is not the answer as Scots are ministers in government overseeing English only matters.

This is another sign that it's Westminster which is pushing for ENGLISH independence.

#3 wrote "What I fear Brown is trying to do is set up Westminster AS the English Parliament, but with it's finger in the Scottish, Welsh and NI parliaments too."
He doesn't need to set it up. It has always been so.

#6 Not so. Much more sinister and unacceptable will be an English Parliament, set up to handle English matters, but having a say in Scottish matters.

I believe Brown wants to set up Westminster as the English Parliament, but still try to control Scotland through it. As usual, Westminster will make a balls up off it and the Union will be severely damaged. That is NOT what we want. I think the polls show the majority of Scots want either a fair union with more powers devolved, or a complete break. A damaged Union is in no-ones interests.

But as #1 says, if Straw gets his way, Brown will have to resign his seat.

#7 Yes so. Westminster has always taken English matters as its priority, and only incidentally dealt were Scottish affairs provided they didn't conflict with English interests. Or as you put it, "control Scotland through it."

the scots have always had an influence, but the vast majority of mp are english so the are the ones who excercise control. have an english parliament with 100 mps and cut the size of the westminster parliament to SAY 10 WELSH 10 . IRISH 25 SCOTS 55 EGLISH MPS. this would recognise differing populations enabling the english parliament to control english matters and allow westmimster to control the overall federal government, much like australia, and with fewer overall mp numbers would be much cheaper

Brown intends to balkanise England into bogus EU "regions" his appointment of regional ministers shows where his mind is.

Something we will fight every step of the way.

Frankly it's too late to save the union now.

Independence for the home nations is now the best way forward.

Perhaps then we can all get along - I hope so.

I don't think Scottish MP's should be allowed to vote on purely English matters; nor do I think there should be any Scottish MP's. We need to give the English their independence, their own parliament, and their own Prime Monster.

I know it is unlikely that, in these circumstances, that the English will want to keep Broon, but maybe his pal Bliar can get him a job working for his boss, Bush.

The decaying union is dead; it just won't lie down, yet.

The Union is breaking up and the cause can be traced back to this New Labour's promises in order to come back in from the political wilderness, and I think that Scotland, England and Wales will be worse off. But the juggernaut of devolution and nationalism is underway and it will be generations before our three countries manage to forget all the bickering and squabbling which we are indulging in. Perhaps if a new union is forged in the future then it will be better managed than this current Union which has sown discontent owing to the neglect of regions outside the Home Counties.

Fair enough, If Scottish MP's have no say in English matters that should work both ways. In which case we may as well be Independent.

Straw is merely doing Gordon Brown's bidding, Gordon is in a tough situation, it was Gordon who signed 'Scotland's right of Claim' whereby it states the issues of the Scottish People are paramount, so here we have it a British PM who will be persueing policies such as education, health and transport which have no bearing on his constituents because these matters are devolved to the Scottish Parliament, yet he will still have to put his constituents issues as paramount, now either Gordon is true to his word within the 'Claim of Right' or as PM of the UK he withdraws his signature, either way he is going to get criticised, yet a way out of this situation would be to give England a Parliament within a federal UK

About time.

I'm loving it,arn't we living in an interesting and historic time.

Why should the English have to put up being ruled by a Scots dominated Westminster administration who they didn't vote for? That's exactly how Scotland was treated in the Thatcher years and is basically not just.

Can anybody name all the Scottish Westminster MPs? NB Don't cheat by looking it up.
I have heard of:
Alistair Carmichael
Grodon Brown
Alistair Darling
John Reid
Douglas Alexander
Jim Sheridan
Anne Moffat
John McFall
er...er...er..
that's 8
who are the other 48 nonentities who'se wages we are paying??????

The optimum number of Scottish MPs in Westminster is NIL.

Why bother having MPs from Scotland in a UK govt in they can't vote on English matters.

Never liked Straw. He's one of those people you either like or dislike. Well, he polarises me .... and now he's planning to polarise all Scots.

Good!

It just makes Independence more likely to happen sooner rather than later!

Two can play at that game!

Ban all Scottish MPs from Westminster.

I fully agree with this measure. The days of Labour using Scottish donkeys as unthinking lobby fodder on purely English issues should be ended. It is grossly unfair but typical of Labour. Also no MP for a Scottish seat should ever be allowed to be Home Secretary again, since this is a predominately English function.
We do not want to create resentment by managing our own affairs here, but being able to meddle in those down south too.

Hey English Bob,

I think you are right there mate. The minute Scotland Controls it own country as an Independant Nation the relationship between Scots and the English will be a million times better. I think I have said to you before that England needs its own Parliament just like Scotland. A brand new one situated in the Midlands. You know they spent 400 million on the entire Scottish Parliament but they spent over 800 million on a car park for Westminster. We are like you mate we cant believe the amount of injustice that is done to Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England North of the Watford Gap. If there was an English Parliament you guys would probably contol it with the population of the Midlands and Northern England, go for it mate.

I'm a unionist -- and always will be -- but I find the new set-up in Holyrood quite refreshing. We have evolved from simply seeing the Glasgow-based Labour 'majority', with its frightneningly limited thinking, to a position of debate, interest and fresh thinking. I find the thought of independence quite scary, as does the Labour party.

Isn't it ironic, then, that our new Scottish PM is about to become the biggest generator of interest in independence, as he seems to be after only three days in office.

He will be the last Scottish PM at this rate. We're soon going to be on our own.

#17 , can anyone name more than a handful of the equally useless English MP's in Westminster. The optimum number of English MP's in Westminster having a say on anything in Scotland , re our measly supposed subsidy ( or as it should be our reduced portion of tax raised in Scotland ) should be NIL. Get the donkeys to vote us out the union.

About time,I would assume that their salaries would be adjusted accordingly.

#24 I'm all for adjusting the salaries of politicians to a level commensurate with their skills and ability, although by that criterion they might starve to death!

#23mr angry, ayrshire

You should have only one leader for Scotland Mr Alec salmond and give him the salutation the f----- or in English the leader

There you go problem solved

Scots should have no MPs at Westminster. They should all be at Hollyrood. Leave Westminster to the English and we'll look after ourselves.
Independence soon please

Derek Fae Yell #17....you forgot to mention David Hamilton MP for Midlothian. I'm not a Labour voter, never have and never will but he seems a decent enough bloke and always responds to letters and emails.

# 17

Alex Salmond, Angus MacNeil, Stewart Hosie, Mike Weir, Pete Wishart and Angus Robertson.

That's the lot!

The end of the union is on the horizon.

the 'bogus eu regions' that the English 'nationalists' talks of are real and are areas of the the country with distinct economic, social and historical connections that differentiate them from the 'Greater southeast' region. They are also a similar size to Scotland.

They have also indcated that, when given a vote on status, that they are happy to be ruled by the UK Parliament rather than take responsibility for their own affairs. That vote means that they must accept that MP's from Scotland and Wales can vote on their affairs.

The only reason that English 'nationalists' want to devolve England as a whole, is to sieze the assests of the UK state built up by people from all parts of the country in the last 300 years. This is what would happen if 85% of the country became a single voting block. If they do not recognize this, they are either stupid or dishonest. The Secretaries of State and PM posts are UK jobs because they have international and national responsibilities, it is the Ministers of State who run English affairs.

In addition, London is Britain. I would question whether it could form part of such a devolved state. Its economy depends on the world, it has a greater diversity than any other part of England with more is more than 40% non white. The regions of England contribute as much to the success of the city region as scotland or wales and recieve rather more back.

the real problem here is that people in England do not understand their 'constitution', like those that demanded the resignation of the MP that crossed the floor last week. I blame the education system, of which I am a product, where else in the world would people consider it a victory for their 'rights' to be excluded form key parts of the EU treaty that confer rights to the individual against the state.

Another example of the tit for tat politics thats going to blight us for the next few years. A plague on all their houses, lets have a revolution now ( or tommorrow morning as I don't like Mondays and I have a nice lunch to come.) Forward to socialism - down with nationalism, down with Brown and Salmond, up with roast beef and yorkshire pudding.

Was Straws son not a junkie drug dealer who got off with it cos who his dad was?

And did one of the two "fat ladies" who was at school with straw not describe this as "poacher turned gamekeeper"?

The West Lothian Question is the biggest red herring ever in politics.

It assumes that decisions can be defined as wholly "English" - that decisions taken in England are mutually exclusive from those taken in Scotland. That is nonsenses because of the sheer size of England means that decisions taken will effect other parts of the UK both in terms of politics and economics.

If the Spanish and the Catalans can cope with an assymetrical system - why can't we?

#32

I am in agreement with a lot you say - the problem is not power being devolved to Scotland but the fact that in England it is still concentrated in the South-East.

An English Parliament would still have exactly the same problem - with larges amounts of capital expenditure still ending up in the South-east through projects as diverse as Crossrail and the Olympics.

Those who argue that Scottish MPs should not have a say do not understand the system. Can you imagine if a decision on trams had only been made by Edinburgh MPs? Or the Forth crossing decided only by Fife and Lothian MPs?

Sound's like a dash good idea! Why should Westminster allow Scottish MP's the privelidge of voting in BOTH Scottish Parliament AND Westminster? After all, how many English and Welsh MP's can cast votes in Scottish Parliament?

#17

How about Jim Murphy - MP for Eastwood who turned what was one of the safest Tory seats in Scotland to almosts one of the safest Labour seats. That is no accident - he is probably one of our hardest-working MPs - he holds countless surgeries and has worked hard within communities particularly in the area of drugs.

Other MPs I am aware are lazy sods who do not have that sort of work ethic - oh and they don't all come from one party - there are good and bad MPs in all parties.

#38

Glen - Scottish MPs do not vote in the Scottish Parliament.

Also explain to me why Scottish MPs should have no say in what might be seen as wholly "English" projects such as Crossrail or the Olympics. Scottish MPs should have the right to vote particularly in relation to matters of capital expenditure - remember that although Scotland does make decsions about how spending is made it does not decide the level of that spending - that decision is wholly in the hands of Westminster.

Perhaps a better solution would be to scrap Barnett and allow all MPs a say through the Budgetary process or to allow Scotland to have total fiscal autonomy - that would, in my opinion, remove one of the biggest objections (even if it is based on a myth) - that England is "subsidising" Scotland's social and education policies.

Yep, we English are doing what we should have done a century ago...kicked you lot of whingers back North of the wall!

You really do amaze me sometimes. Your ability to whinge about unfair treatment from Westminster when nearly all of the senior ministerial positions, even the Prime Minister and Chancellor, were both Scots.

You have had something to the order of £20 BILLION in aid just withdrawn from you and rightly so! I don't recall any thanks for that...first I knew of that was when you lot whinged about losing it. £20 Billion is more than we give to the entire EU for membership for FIVE YEARS!

As for your nuclear waste...if you have the arrogance to walk out on talks about the disposal of it and want out of the UK then you must expect all this and more. After all, independence is about being independent. You will need to raise your own funds rather than receiving aid from England...You will need to manage your own energy...if you wish to dispose of your nuclear waste then you will have to do like the rest of the world...PAY MONEY FOR IT!

Thank god not all the Scots are compulsive whingers...the few who already do so have mouths bigger than Texan's...any more and you would deafen the world with your immutable, illogical, unreasonable and incessant whinging!

Dear Bigot,

What to Scottish MP's do in Hollyrood if they do not vote...sounds frivollous.

Scottish MP's should have no say in the olympics because the olympics are in England, not Scotland and after all...you Scots want independence. As for Crossrail, I don't know what Crossrail is.

As for expenditure etc...Scot's having a say in budgetary processes...ever heard of Gordon Brown and Tony Blair...I believe they were Scot's.

You had it and you wasted it. Gordon Brown is looking like a promising PM, and I am someone who despises the Labour Party...but credit where due...I like what I see of him so far in number 10.

Scotland for the Scots MSPs
England for the English MPs
Wales for the Welsh MPs
Northern Ireland ... to be handed over to Eire asap!

Each to their own and then we'll all be dysfunctionally happy!! :)

Christ, did Scottish MP's vote on the 17 billion pounds budget for an upgrade to the London Underground. On top of that the contractor has just told them there is to be a 2 billion blow out on the budget. And Brown tells us we get to much.

I mean we dont want to encourage you English into staying in the Union but your economy was rescued by Scotlands wealth in oil. The UK was a basket case until the late eighties. Dont worry we will be demanding a reimbursement through the European Courts when the divorce goes through. You guys down South have lived of us long enough. There is no doubt you guys will be lining up at the border begging to get in.

Just Remember Brown stays with you lot, we dont want a pretend Englishman coming back up here to start claiming he has suddenly seen the light and wants to return to being a pretend Scotsman.

Hey Taking A bigots Money,

The Olympics are going to gobble up at least twice the amount that Westminster returns annualy. We give 76 billion through taxes and oil money and we get less than thirty billion back. You Poms dont know how good you have it living of the back of Scotland.

Heres a great idea we will keep our money and you lot keep yours. Now what 76 billion divided by 5 million. Sounds good to me.

#40 Since the name Eire in the English language means Ireland,then I think that it is only right that the north eastern part of that country should be reunited with their fellow Irishmen, and women. In fact I believe that it should never have been stolen in the first place.

#37 Agree that Jim Murphy is indeed a hard working MP. However, it would be interesting to note that the Labour Party's rightward drift has been a better fit people for the people of Eastwood.
In fact New Labour is now the Toon Tory Party and apposed to the County and Countryside Tories.

#17 Old Yeller, Dundee West where I hail from has had a series of dimwitted stooges during my life, starting with Peter Doig, then Ernie Ross followed by Jim McGovern.
Mainly elected on the Trades Union ticket as people who could be manipulated and not for their radical viewpoints.

In fact Ross was proud that he had never wavered on any Government Vote EVER. 'it's my job to vote with the Government'.
The phrase 'lobby fodder' applied to this man 100%.

Eh...eh ...eh do you mean the careerist Straw man, with as much brains as a false face. When Home Secretary - reputed as the worst ever - was when the rot began within the criminal set-up in the UK. The soft touch treatment of criminals became softer every time he opened his mouthl. There were queues of them looking forward to going to prison, some were actually sent abroad for breaks on some
of Straw's quaint ideas. This nutter cost taxpayers many millions with some of his weird brain damaged ideas.
The prison service employees detested the man. Before entering parliament; he was on the security list when radical leader of the students union. Like the other spend thrift Darling, life long friend of Brown's - both had the mania for spending money raised from the peoples taxes.
Both have been promoted in Brown's politburo to important top jobs which later is guaranteed to cost the tax-payers millions more of their hard earned cash. Both have achieved very little in the past, as they have gone through the book in almost every governmental post. I wonder why they are back in the tob bracket posts? I also wonder if there is an ulterior motive behind Brown's strange promotions?
On examination of their past abominable record in government since 1997 both have been more or less total failures. Both, along with Brown, have the unenviable record of being absent from many off the important debates in Parliament. WE'll probably find out in thirty or forty years time; why?

Have an independence vote. If the SNP wins, then you get independence but if the unionists win then you close Holyrood.

the meenisters boy is preparing for independence in scotland. his conduct suggests a spoiled brat in action.
must have forgot where he was born.
this would make a tremendous carry- on film!
the self-destruction of the labour party!

Hey KWC,

One of the main reasons that some of Scotlands folk are frightened of being on our own as an independant country is that to a certain extent they are institutionilised to the British Nationalism. Its not their fault, many have never seen enough of the World to discover that the majority of the countries who were coloured pink on the world map are doing quite well and are very proud of their achievements. People raise the point that a few of these countries are doing better than us and come to the Commonwealth Games and kick our arses. The reason those countries are doing well is because they have to do it on their own so become more determined to succeed. I believe that there is a good arguement that Scots have such a high addiction levels in Alcohol and drug abuse is a lack of self worth. A lot of Scots put on a saltire, or sing folk music to protest their Scottishness. The best way to feel the inner passion of being a true Scot is to run your own race and believe in your nation and people. Scots really havent experienced being in charge of their own destiny and the inner pride it can bring a whole nation. My god man if we ever get focussed together we would be dangerous. The commonwealth was built by Scotsman. In Australia all deceased Prime Ministers are buried at a Scottish Church in Melbourne. Its the same in Canada and the USA, there is a massive Scottish cultural influence. The USA Declaration of Independance was based on the treaty of Arbroath. There are 5 million Scots in their homeland but around the World there are literaly hundreds of millions who are very proud of their Scottish Heritage. The Scottish Family is ingrained in many cultures. We have made so many contributions to this world we should be puffing out our chest and saying I am a Scot and I am very proud of my wonderful country and my extended world population of Scots. Be Proud man because you have got so much to be proud of. We Are The People. I really believe that and I don

Hey Glenn,

You expressed opinions that we defend your right to say. We wont get together to condemn you and your opinions.

What I would like you to consider is that what you read in southern Newspapers is not always correct, There has been no 20 billion taken from Scotland for a start. The system down there and up here also is manipulated by this Brown guy you think sounds okay and people like Murdoch who tell the politicians what to do. As I said in an earlier post we contribute 76 billion to the United Kingdoms coffers and in return we receive 28 billion. Now thats a fact Glenn and if you think that is a fair deal for us you are sadly mistaken. Scotland doesnt have a decent roads network, we dont have a complex motorway system, a decent rail system that went out with the ark. We have a poverty level which is amongst the highest in Europe.

Look mate dont fall for the divisive crap you read in the papers, the Scots dont hate the English we hate the monstrosity of Westminster. We sympathise with English, Welsh and Northern Ireland people who are all treated like the shit beneath their shoes. The further north you get in England the less you get.

As I say mate its not always straight forward whinging, there is a bit more to it than that. Scots politicians in Holyrood can vote on Health, Education, Road and Rail, development of the economy etc. but we are not allowed to get enough funds to accomplish much. That is why we want to end the union. Plain and Simple. If we raise our own taxes we can rebuild our country that has suffered so badly under Westminster neglect. If that happens then there ius no reason we cant relax and build a better friendship with the English People.

Isn't Jack Straw a clever man to think of that! Of course Scottish MP's should not vote on English matters and English MP's should not vote on Scottish matters. It is about time England also gets it's own devolved parliament.

After yesterday in Glasgow .We really need to be independent like Ireland ,Londons politics are dragging us down.

Sorry Glenn I forgot to mention that we dont get aid in anyway from England/Westminster. We pay all our taxes into the National treasury, 76 billion we get 28 billion given back to us because it is our money. Westminster walks away with 48 billion of our money. We dont get a sniff at it. So basically we generate income only to be handed back a third of it. Does that sound fair to you. That 28 billion is to run our education system, our hospitals, our legal system, patch up our roads, provide care to our elderly, help the universities, give money to all the coucils etc etc. Christ man Westmister spends 2 billion just on consultants last year. You cant eat consultants, you cant pay your bills with consultant and they are absolutely shit at fixing the roads even if you can afford the tar.

Havent we got a great deal with the Westminster government. Brown and Blair illegally attack two countries which leads to us receiving two of our boys home in a coffin and a bomb attack at one of our airports.

Dont get me wrong about our soldiers being in Iraq/Afghanistan, Im sure they did their family proud and my sympathy goes out to them. Scotland did not support the iraq invasion but those two boys didnt have the option of opting out because we are still tied to the UK.

I hope Blair and Brown rot in hell for the young British Folk they are responsable for killing. Brown a religious man pigs arse, his religion is power.

Hey Pencildik,

Thanks for that mate. I tend to think of it as a party political statement on behalf of Scotland. Its such a pity that so many dont quite get it, but we are getting there. The SNP has jumped ahead even more in the polls. the polls were taken at the same time as Browns leadership launch so its even better. the people are waking up from a long sleep.

Keep the Faith Mate. ITS TIME.

#48 Scottish MPs DO NOT SIT OR VOTE in the Holyrood Parliament. That is the function of the Scottish MSPs (Members of the Scottish Parliament). If you bar Scottish MPs from voting on English matters at Westminster, you are in effect turning the English MPs into EPMs (English Parliament Members) with the dual role of also being Westminster MPs. Therefore you have an inconsistency between how Scotland, Wales and NI are governed and how England is governed.

The ONLY way forward is as suggested by #9 and myself at #3, is to have a separate English Parliament from Westminster and have a smaller Westminster looking after common affairs such as Foreign and Defence, etc.

HOWEVER, I strongly disagree with #9 that it should be proportional. In such a Westminster, Scotland, England, Wales and NI MUST have equal representation regarding common matters.

-----Voting by Scots and English MPs? Oh come now! You must realise that once the new EU Constitution is in force, neither Scotland nor England -- or come to that, Wales, Ireland or any other previously independent areas of the EU -- will have a national parliament.

Regional governments are already being installed and these will be regions of the European Union not of the country which used to be known, for instance, as Scotland. The whole idea of the EU is to create one large country and therefore it has to do away with individual national boundaries and old parliaments.

Westminster, for instance, will no longer be used as the London Regional Government will come from the Mayor of London's office on the Thames and the new Scottish Parliament will make a useful place for the Scottish Regional Government to hold its meetings. And, of course, although the Queen might be kept in office for a few more years as a cosmetic gesture, she will certainly not be replaced as sovereign as by then there will be a European President and there can't be two Heads of State.

Hey IM NO REALLY HERE, well said and a great option about equal representation for all. But you know and we all know it will never happen. Westminster would never be reduced, the civil servants would never allow it.

But what you say is how the act of union was meant to be. There was no way that was going to happen and the really sad thing is our ancestors knew that and there was nothing they could do about it. That is why there is no option open for us other than running our own race for Scotland.

Hey Jayson, Surrey

You have got it in one. That makes the case for independance even more imperitive. Then we can negotiate our own deal or pull out of Europe.

As for the Queen. Lets not forget that she is Queen of Scots and will be quite welcome up here if she wants. Wouldnt like to see her and Philip living in a semi detached on the Southcoast.

"48. Glenn, England / 2:28pm 1 Jul 2007"

Touch a nerve did I Glen - because your reply has to be full of the most spurious crap ever.

"What to Scottish MP's do in Hollyrood if they do not vote...sounds frivollous."

Er . . . Scottish MPs are not in Holyrood - it is Scottish MSPs who are in Holyrood.

"Scottish MP's should have no say in the olympics because the olympics are in England, not Scotland and after all...you Scots want independence."

Jeez - have I been Rip van Winkle and missed an independence referendum? The last I looked my taxes were still be used to pay for the jamboree that is happening in 2012 - or do you belive I have no right to hold that spending accountable?

"As for Crossrail, I don't know what Crossrail is."

Another tranche of capital spending for - you've guessed - the South-East or rather London. Now I'm not going into arguments about the merits of such a scheem e- but again explain why my MP should be prevented from making a decision to spend my taxes?

"As for expenditure etc...Scot's having a say in budgetary processes...ever heard of Gordon Brown and Tony Blair...I believe they were Scot's."

Gordon Brown may be Scottish but the last I looked my MP was actually Stuart Hosie - I know I did not vote for him - but he is still my MP and I expect him to make sure that my taxes are spent well. If does so is another matter - I understand that his party seem to think you can decide that some legislation is "English-only" - though how they manage to define that I do not know - as far as I am concerned - if it involves any fiscal decision then I as UK tax payer should have the right of representation.

Ever hard of the phrase "No taxation without representation"

The problem that some English voters is they think they do not have representation when it comes to Scottish affairs - the reality is that they do - the

English Votes on English Laws is a half baked 'solution' to the WLQ. For example, how could we have a Prime Minister who couldn't vote on Scottish Education, Health, Local Government etc because it's dealt with at Holyrood and English education etc. because as a Scottish MP Brown would be barred.
In effect it would mean a Scottish MP couldn't be PM. If I was Scottish I'd be very unhappy with that.
One simple answer is for us English to have our own English Parliament, English First Minister and English Executive the same as Scotland. The PM could then deal with UK matters ie. defence, UK taxation,foreign policy etc.
The alternative, my preferred solution, is for England to declare independence from Scotland Wales and N.Ireland.

# 36 Power in Scotland is concentrated even more in Scotland! I dare say the people of the rest of Scotland get fed up being dominated by Edinburgh/Glasgow.

#65

I would not disagree - that's why I do not class myself as either a nationlist or a unionist - both systems are full of holes.

#64
I love you; that is indeed the only solution. But who is going to form the English National Party?

Note to Glenn,

The olympics were awarded to London not England. England begins at the edge of London. It is london that represents 'Britain' to the world. If its wealth relied on 'England' it would be a very poor place.

see my earlier post. the point of devolution is to return power to the people. devolving power to 'england' is devolving power to 85% of the population. True devolution would recognize that the economies of areas outside London are as reliant on cash transfers as scotland is.

The tidy answer is to extend devolution to about 6 Regions in England, including London, and seriously cut the present Westminster parliament which would deal only with national matters. The Regions/countries would handle all items in their boundaries as we do, but with wider fiscal powers.

Tidiness does not always appeal. In such case, the Westminster lower house has power to declare itself an "English committee" on, say, the first friday of each month. Non English could not vote on such a committee.

QED

#69

Devolution of power should not just stop at Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland - as you say it needs to be done in England as well.

I'd probably go further and say that the Scottish Parliament needs to devolve power to local areas. For example, I find it ludicrous that a faceless bureaucrat in Edinburgh can overturn decisions of elected councillors - phone masts being a prime example.

#67 Already done.

http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/

Another step on the road to independence (and this paper is reporting a few today!)

#69 We English will decide how we want to be governed thank you. IF we want a regional aspect to English government then it will be the decision of the English people through an elected English government reporting to an English Parliament. Mr Brown and his fellow Scottish MPs should mind their own business.

An MP is an MP. Scottish MPs can vote on any motion - and who is going to prevent them? Also, who is to determine what is a purely English bill?Devolution is wrong, not Westminster.

#69. The English don't want another lair of regional government - remember the great northern vote? Why pay the extra taxes? Also, there is a question of where to put regional parliaments - in England you have county and city loyalties and not regional ones (see the appaling local government reforms of the 1970s). Is someone in York going to have any loyalty to a parliament in Manchester and vice versa? A purely English parliament would immediately secede from the UK. Devolution is at fault here. Let's not destroy our country over some half-baked scheme put in place by Donald Dewar et al.

High time this so called british parliament was put to bed and england and the english allowed to stand on their own two feet.

Go for it Jack Straw, we will see the complete demise of labour north of the border.
Great news, wish I had a vote on it.

Given the 4 headlines highlighting how we are to be dislodged by the government then may I suggets that to avoid any more terror attacks the governemnt of scotland pulls all scottish troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Or is it ok to deprive duly elected MP's of voting rights, reduce the amount of money paid back to scotland from the treasury but at the same time ensure that the ever needed volume of canon fodder is supplied to the british army by scottish youth, mostly from deprived backgrounds?

One more step towards the break-up of the Union if this goes ahead! Excellent!

GP #77 perhaps PM Brown and Minister of Defence Browne, both of whom represent Scottish constituencies could arrange for English troops to be brought home! Or is it OK for English troops to fight Brown and Browne's war when English people at home are denied life saving cancer drugs and sight saving drugs freely available in Scotland.
Browne's predecessor at the MoD John Reid is also a Scottish MP.
Royster #74 Who would determine what is a purely English Bill? Who determines what is a purely Scottish Bill? I agree with you however,Devolution is a mess.
With Scotland electing an SNP government and England getting more and more angry with the situation there is no going back! There is only one answer. Independence for England and Scotland. End the Union.NOW!

#32 Robbie the Lydder. I don't know what country you are living in but it isn't England. The eu regions ARE bogus. The North East REJECTED the regional assembly by 78% to 22%. Still Brown pushes on with Prescott's failure against the wishes of the English people. One of the reason was that this policy only appears to devolve power when in fact it centralises it in a favoured city such as Newcastle which gets to decide where it spends its money. Oh surprise surprise in NEWCASTLE. Forget Sunderland, forget Durham. The unelected regional assemblies are evil destroyers of town and county councils which represent REAL local interest . 'Happy to be ruled by the UK parliament' You've obviously missed the four recent independent polls including one by the BBC which puts approval for an English parliament at 65-75%. For your information London whatever its size is in England and you do not have to be white to embrace an inclusive English identity or even a cultural one in addition to being a Londoner thanks.

#35 Taking a bigot's money . The WLQ a red herring? When Scots MPs help labour vote through unpopular legislation like foundation hospitals and tuition fees. No I don't think so. Your argument about whether any matter can truly be considered just English on a fiscal basis is probably valid. However since we are not going to put up with it your argument leads straight to mutual independence. The Catalonians happy? Not sure about that one.

#50 Brisbane Scot. I'm glad to see that you are puffing out your chest and taking all the credit for the British Empire. About time! Does this mean that you will be taking on all the GUILT for it rather than just poor old England? I hope you will be telling all those indigenous Australians how much Scotland was responsible for empire. Cheers mate.

It’s a comedy!

79# the VAST majority of mp's are english and voted for the war.
Please do not get me started on the differences between england and scotland NHS services you no doubt read tabloid that try to pick on very small issues such as the occasional drug that is allowed in scotland but niot in england. Have you checked the reverse?
Have you checked facilties, qaulity and services?
crazy!

I agree with Jack Straw's comments concerning the use of the burkha in certain situations.

I do not think that the use of the burkha etc. by passport control officers should be permitted when they are dealing with International Flights at a time of high alert.

Another triumph for the press getting it totally wrong;

Scotland on Sunday - 1 July
"SCOTTISH MPs could be banned from voting on English issues by Gordon Brown's new regime - even though the new Prime Minister has consistently opposed the move.

Gordon Brown - 3 July
"...we do not accept the proposal for English votes for English laws which would create two classes of MPs.."

Why don't newspapers wait until the news actually happens before reporting it. That's what they're meant to do isn't it. Not report what they think might be news in a few days time, as though it was fact.

There are already different classes of MP and different classes of constituent in consequence of the anomaly.

Should Scottish MPs who are committed to separation serve at Westminster?

My comments concerning airport security related to an English Airport.

You really have to laugh. 300 years of English MPs deciding the fate of Scotland and thats all fine, but 10 years where Scots might have a voice results in the English whinging and changing the system