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The headscarf is a cultural thing and is not compulsory for women to wear it, to adhere to Islam as far as I understand.
'Malik added: "This is going to throw up all sorts of difficulties for Asian players throughout Scotland and across the world. It will have massive consequences."'
Well not a problem for all the non muslim and sikh Asians. Then again all "Asians" are the same aren't they according to The Scotsman crappy reporting.
If you believe in a religion you must accept at times there are things you must miss out on. If you demand the world changes to suit you, then your 'faith' is not genuine, just an excuse to dominate others.
The surprise is the girls being allowed to play football in the first place. So many Muslim women suffer terribly world wide. As they cannot play football, maybe they could work for more freedom for their sisters in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and the like?
Hang on a minute. Aren't we trying to eliminate sectarianism from Scottish football? Oh, I forgot, that only applies to Rangers and Celtic and Catholics and Protestants.
Be very careful what you write or there will be muslims rioting all over Scotland.They like to do that.
"FIFA general secretary Urs Linsi issued a statement saying: "The laws of the game must be applied when you play organised association football."
Er, but the laws of the game weren't handed down to Moses on Tablets of Stone, were they?
They can be changed, can't they?And this seems like a spectacularly silly rule, with no rhyme nor reason behind it.Change it!
Football's an infidel sport anyway
#6; 'My Chinese wife drew it to my attention. She asked me 'Why are the Muslims always furious?' Do you know?'Do you have other wives who are not Chinese?
7. nell from falkirk
while in Rome do as the Romans, if these footballerswish to play the game than follow the rules! if there is a big enough argument about it then all the sporting bodies world wide can vote on it and then make representation to FIFA to have it changed.
" but the laws of the game weren't handed down to Moses on Tablets of Stone, were they? "
No they were`nt! but there was`nt any muslims at that time either.
"
I assume they'll wear shorts, which I thought compromised the belief system too. Reverse this & we'll have a Priests XI with barettas, an orange lodge team with their sashes & a hari krishna side in their gowns & sandals - Gouranga!!!
The very best way to deal with problems like these is to BAN religion in all its forms from schools and sports fields.
Religion is a personal thing, keep it personal.
Let us protect our sports and our schools from the religious bacteria eating away at our societies. Its the best thing for all concerned.
I suspect your "exposure to Muslims"(ooerr) is limited to the Indian restaurant on the high street in Stonehaven or wherever you really live.Goodnight Walter.
The Irony is that they couldn't even play football in their own Muslim homelands and would be imprisoned if they complained.
Get used to it folks, this is only the beginning . Flip forward 15 years to the newly partitioned - Islamic republic of Scotland. By that time most of us will be long gone having emigrated to a decent, tolerant country.
#11 what a colourful and appealing picture you paint! Maybe it could be suggested to FIFA, make the game more interesting?
#15 Turkey & Pakistan, both Muslim countries, do have women's soccer. To say "Muslim homelands" and to imply that Muslim countries all have the same systems of law or government is as correct as saying "Christian homelands" to mean nations as diverse as Germany, Canada, England or Serbia.
13. Media 1,
Only a bigot could bring 'I blame the schools' religious debate into something about womens football.
their desire to wear their headress is obviously more important than them wanting to play football
#15 scythia, i hate PC with a vengeance but there have been small green shoots of hope that PC is not going to last forever, the public are getting sick of it and i really do think that its going to die a pianful death....... eventually
#17 Ichabod: Grow up! If you can tell me on what grounds religion is justified at school and on the sports field I will listen.
It is very sad it only a game of Football.
As a suggestion to these ladies (assuming anyone connected with them reads the "Scotsman"), there is a Dutch designer, one Cindy van den Bremen, who has created the Capster, a head covering made from stretchy fabric that covers the head and neck.
It was apparently designed for Dutch Muslim ladies to wear in the gym, and is available on her website www.capsters.com. Perhaps FIFA could be persuaded to accept the wearing of these?
It would be refreshing to read a storyline where the Muslims in question were just, 'a little put out, 'somewhat upset' or even 'kinda moody'. Why the fury, outrage etc, etc, ad nauseum. With those kind of feelings boiling away inside, perhaps football is not the best sport to be contemplating. A red card could lead to rioting and more calls for death to the unbelievers. And yes, I AM serious. Anyway, there's far too much guff about football on the news. Grossly overpaid pansies.
#23 Newspaper article writers don't, as a matter of journalistic routine, tend to pen articles about moderate views and mild feelings.They wouldn't sell newspapers that way.
So quarter-of-an-inch of snow falling on the Vicar's car appears as "Church of England brought to standstill in blizzard white-out terror"
#24. Thank you so much for that observation. I'm not even 'mildly put out' by it.
19. Media 1
A the open mind of the liberal. Open to anything that he chooses. Religion is acceptable everywhere humans gather as it is part of life. You may have a closed mind towards it, but millions of others have not.Liberals tolerate so many opinions that they agree with, but with things they disagree with the intolerance of the tolerant knows no bounds.
#22 Nell - the capsters idea may be a very viable solution. Already Sikh cricketers make a head covering out of stretchy material (? tights) to play & comply with their beliefs.
One potential issue though may be that ,originating in Holland, they are obviously Dutch Capsters!!!
www.scotlandonsunday.commhorne@scotlandonsunday.com“Muslims cry foul over hijab ban”. Fifa should lift their ban on head covers or scarves for footballers. The importance is that we should encourage the playing of all games as much as possible. Ian Macadam, 1, Lorne Campbell Court, Campbeltown, Argyll PA28 6SZ UK Tel 01586-552677 24 June 2007email ian@macadam.abelgratis.com
To wear a scarf or head cover is a small request, which will not affect the game. Let any player wear a head cover if he/she wants. There is no danger. Let us all play.
I have already commented.
Ronaldino wears a head cover in matches. Nuff said.
Anybody notice if Ian Macadam has commented today?#33 Jock Smith: Is he a female Muslim?!!
It's all very fashionable at the moment, isn't it? I mean those muslim girlies wearing traditional costume. Wonder how long the fashion will last? Better to let them have free rein. That way they'll tire of it sooner.
Didn't say a thing about football
Strange that a muslim womans football team in Scotland complain because they want to wear headscarves as they say their religion dictates yet Pakistans muslim womans team who compete at international level do not wear them.Has any one else noticed that it is only in the west that these people want rules changed to suit what they say their religion dictated yet people of the same religion from muslim countries abide by the rules.
?37 I remember the Top Rank nightclub, they had some daft rules about trainers and a tie, ties were literally a pain in the nek but there was no delegation to the the manager asking for a relaxation of the rules. Anyway, isn't the wearing of the hibab a rule made by the menfolk? I mean there are no female religious leaders? Ayotollah Ruth...?
i was apalled at the xenophobia amongst us, considering the 300 plus years of our brutal colonial rule over the parts of the world and after living with them as neighbours in the last 50 years. if you are worrying about what a hijabi is doing with her head, in a game, then you have too much time on your hand, go grab an india pale ale chum! i am also ashamed at the double standard we constantly subject ourselves with, we cheer for the likes of jack straw's misogynist views when it comes to removal of hijab at the same time we boo the muslim woman who wants to wear it as her expression of the self. has the enlightenment passed us by? or are we heading back to the dark ages? those who are harking about sticking with the rules, have forgotten that once we adhered to 'no dogs and indians allowed' in this country, fifa just needs to realize that we no longer live in a world of white haired wigs. games are an expression of the diversity and freedom, not the recluse of some paraoid xenophobia
You folks do realize that most people from India are Hindu, not Muslim? But then, most people who work in "Indian" restaurants in this country are actually from Bangladesh, so are in fact probably Muslim.
This all goes back to the post-independence "partition" of India, which cost 1 million lives. *Before* the warn between East & West Bengal (now Pakistan & Bangladesh.) Doesn't bode well for Iraq... (as if anything did.)
38. walter
I was once told by a Pakistani woman that not many educated and middle class people emigrate to UK as their life in Pakistan is fine. She said that the ones who do go to UK do so for economic reasons as they are often poor, uneducated and tribal and consequently mainly under the control of religion. She was embarrased that the UKs perception of Pakistanis was so low but can understand how it has happened as we assume all Pakistanis are the same.
Whether this is true in the main I have no idea but it does sound plausible. This could be why we have so many extremists and fundamentalists in UK perhaps?
The wearing of anything outside the football strip is forbidden. Goalkeepers are not allowed to wear caps unless it is for protection against the sunshine.One goalie was banned from wearing his woollen hat.he accepted the decision.
There is no going back to the 'dark ages' as one absurd comment put it. Just an acceptance of the laws of the game. There is also a feeling amongst many that too often Muslims use their religion for their own advantage, not for religious observance.This is not prejudice, but as we are only just learning, multi culture does not work - there is only people. We all need to accept the rules.
#3. Ichabod
Excellent post there, but curiously contradicted at #26. Maybe I should read it a third time, but no time now.
#27 :-)
#43 yes, the rules of the game don't include hats. But when the rules of the game were drawn up, nobody (presumably) had considered lady muslim football players.So if they want to play,and need to wear headgear to do so, then in order to let them play the rules should be changed.
I don't see the problem - nobody is suggesting that EVERYBODY should have to cover their heads!
Come on FIFA, it's no skin off your nose - let them play!
#13--Media 1---i agree..
As a former referee, ther's nothing new in this type of issue, I also remember the great debate, around 10 or so years ago, about kids playing with specs. They were summarily banned, due to safety, by Fifa. Sports specs were allowed a few years after this when Edgar Davids popularised them in the professional game. Minor league footballers were then allowed also but were supposed to provide evidence of their safety when requested, though how often this happened is questionable.
A similar issue occured with the Cameroon sleeveless shirt of the 2002 African Nations' Cup. Fifa made them wear a sleeved undervest when the 2002 World Cup came along a few months later & the IFB made a proclamation about the nature of players equipment (Law 4) including a sleeved top.
BTW - isn't it strange I. Macadam hasn't posted!!!
#24--nell from falkirk----you must write for the NYTimes, then:-)
C'mon # 40 "Alistair Crow", what's your real name?Chum.
40. alastair crow, birmingham
Good speech! try it in Saudi Arabia
It's time for them to decide which hobby they are more interested in, religion or football.
"54. Dragonhead, China It would seem that some folk have done absolutely SFA with their lives and are sceptical when others have."
I thought it was just me.
It seems to be a particularly British thing. Probably because to most of them to get on a bus and go two stops is considered foriegn travel there.
The hijab is cultural, not religious, and even then it seems rather less essential than the women in this team seem to claim. As the pic in the BBC story linked below shows, women's teams in Pakistan seem to survive without hijab.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4297628.stm
Parhaps Ansar's coach, Mr Malik, and rentagobs like Atta Yaqub could be asked to explain this?
Pressure should be put on the leaders of the Muslim community over this issue. A televised debate where we can hear, from the horse's mouth wether the wearing of the hijab is compulsory in the muslim faith. If so where is that defined? While wer'e at it , I was under the impression that muslims should not consumme alcohol and certainly should not be ogiling women. A visit to any night club would seem to dispell that little myth.
We must not pander to this kind of drivel, get your scarfs off or leave the field. Next.
Wait, let me get this straight - "There appears to be no logic at all behind this ruling", implying that it's perfectly logical, or at least more logical, to wear a certain style of clothing just because a 1,300 year old book with oppressive views on the role of women in society tells you to??? What an utterly ridiculous stance.
If you don't like the rules, don't play the game. The game certainly isn't obliged to change to be in line with your personal delusions. And this isn't just against Islam either - if the Pope wanted to play in his funny hat or a Wiccan decided to play naked they'd be ordered off the pitch too!
Your article about the hijab ban is misleading. I suspect the Scottish authorities are trying to hide behind FIFA and are saying that their hands are tied. In fact, that is not true and the Scottish authorities can issue referee guidelines that would allow players to wear the hijab.
I know what is going on because I am in Canada and have been following with great interest the controversy here over a girl who was expelled from a regional tournament by a Québec referee. Following that action, FIFA (actually the IFAB), which was holding a meeting in March, added the question of Law 4 to its agenda. They did not change the wording of the Law 4; they simply re-affirmed it. Some members wanted to issue a interpretative statement but the majority refused, saying that Law 4 was unambiguous and unequivocal.
However, FIFA still leaves the actual interpretation and implemention of Law 4 in the hands of LOCAL authorities. This question came up for the first time in Australian state of Victoria, in 2004. After a girl was expelled there for wearing a hijab, the Victoria federation re-examined its local implementation of Law 4. It concluded: " … The hijab has been deemed from the outset not to be dangerous and on that basis there is no issue whatsoever with people wearing it." Subsequently, the Australian national body changed its rules and asked FIFA to revise Law 4. FIFA refused, preferring as it still does, to do nothing at all.
Here in Canada, most provincial federations have joined the state federations in Australia and allow the hijab. The Canadian national federation, however, says that Law 4 is to interpreted on a case-by-case basis, by referees and the Québec provincial federation still has referee guidelines that ban the hijab. The Québec federation says it follows the national federation rule. The national federation says it has no rule except to follow Law 4 by leaving the matter up to referees but that it will follow any interpretive gu
The issue of hijab or pious modest covering is NOT based one iota on culture. An objective study on this in Islam will reveal this fact.
There is no such thing as "Muslim culture", just like there is no such thing as "Christian culture". Muslims practice their religion in a variety of cultures. The only culture you'll see is reflected in the fashion designs.
It is a mandatory obligation on the practicing Muslim faithful, for both men and women to dress and act modestly especially while in public. It's not oppression, it's a reflection of self-respect to uphold piety. Practicing Christians and Jews are suppose to be modest too.
A piece of fabric wrapped and pinned around someone's head does not obstruct nor endanger the athlete. This ban will eventually be altered when common sense prevails.
# 61 "The Scottish groups, whether at the national level or at the regional level CAN allow girls to wear the hijab and they will NOT be expelled from FIFA."
And your point is caller? The fact is that they have chosen NOT to allow the wearing of the Hijab. So get over it.
It's really sad to see so many people sucked in by a cheap inaccurate headline and an article littered with the phrases of cheap journalism and selective quotes.
If rugger types and goalies can wear scrum caps what the heck is the problem! Gee Whizz I remember goalies wearing flat tweed caps. It should never have been allowed to be an issue.
and by the way Dragonhead - if hijabs are so effective in performing ocular surgery why aren't they used more generally by the medical profession for all types of surgery!
To #63:My point is that the Scottish soccer authorities are not being straight with the public. In any case, if Scotland has modern civil liberties legislation, this ban will eventually be lifted. In Canada, there is already ample jurisprudence that the constitutional guarantee on freedom of religion is accompanied by a corollary obligation for reasonable accommodation of a person's religious scruples. In this case, unless it can be shown that the hijab is in a real way dangerous for the wearer or for other players or that it gives some advantage or disadvantage to players, under the kind of civil rights laws that Canada has (and that I should hope Scotland has) there is no legal justification for banning the hijab on the soccer pitch. In another case in the U.K., a girl has been told she cannot wear a simple "chastity ring" on her finger because it would violate the school's dress code. The fact is that just about all groups that require its members to wear uniforms do not require every person in the group to wear EXACTLY the same uniform. Women soldiers wear skirts, men do not. The hats of some officers are different than those of some lower ranking soldiers. The female pc's hat is often not like that of her male colleagues. The REAL danger in all these debates about religious garb is NOT posed by religious people who are demanding freedom of religion but by those who would force all public expression of religion back into the catacombs and behind closed doors. The real danger comes from the SECULARISTS whose agenda is to make ALL religions (Islam, Christiantianty, Judaism, etc.) invisible in the street, in shops, in schools and in all other public places.
# 65. Most eloquent. However, fine words butter no parsnips and no matter how much verbiage you care to throw into the debate, the simple facts of the matter are, that those who are in a position to decide the outcome of this issue (IFAB) have chosen to disallow the wearing of this garment during matches. With regard to the secularists and bearing in mind that I give a fig for religion of any kind; I'm in full agreement with them. Apart from some fine art and copious amounts of blood on the streets, organised religion isn't worth the trouble.
these muslim girls have a right jus like any other individual to engage in any activities that please them. may i remind everyone that the hijab is a cumpulsory aspect of the muslim religion, wether an individual wears it or not is entirely up to them. so comparing scotland players to pakistani players etc is not a fair argument.don't you think that this 'outrage' that muslims may be feeling may be due to the fact that in every aspect of life they are excluded, ridiculed, mocked and disrespected.
# 67. May I remind you, that no individual (including muslim girls) has the right to engage in any activity that may please them. For example; it would please me no end, to walk into the Bank of Scotland and relieve them of all of their fifty pound notes. The powers that be on the other hand might take a less sympathetic view of such an action. As for your closing point that muslims are excluded, ridiculed, mocked etc... What utter twaddle. And besides, girls shouldn't be playing football anyway.
why should girls not play football? that's like saying men should not cook. muslims are discriminated in every situation, you just need to open your paper and read what it says. how do u think it would feel not to have the same rights as other individuals.
Scotland is a Christian based society. Therefore, the rules that govern all aspect of live in Scotland will never fit into the Muslim Religion. I have no religion and I don't want it. I am perfectly happy without it like many others.I am not a racist, I just want people to understand that if the rules laid down over years for either play a game of football to playing marbles than they abide by them.
No one person nor any religious groups, governments and sporting bodies have the write to changes rules to suit their causes.
# 13, As Media 1, said, "religion is a personal thing" and that is where is should remain.
The Muslim community need to realise why they came to Scotland? I know why? Because they did not have the freedom to live there lives. Well, many Scots have die to protect that very freedom that you wish to change. Either, you change to reflect the Scottish Society or move to another country. And that goes for every religious group and non-believes like me.
