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1

Yoram,

Hadera 22/10/2006 05:17:59

What a title for the article! Almost vindicates Ahamedenijad, Arafat, and Hitler, no?

Three questions:

1. Why doesn't Scotsman tell us the title of the new book?

2. Why did Scotsman choose such a sensational title for a history lesson?

3. Why did Scotsman exclude mentioning the White Paper, which is the necessary context for hundreds of "illegal" Jewish operations in Palestine during 1939-1948?

With White Paper, the British had closed the doors of Palestine to Jewish immigration just as Hitler was opening the doors of Aushwitz.

Winston Churchil declared upon issuance of White Paper in 1939, which canceled further Jewish immigration and land purchase in Palestine: " This is the breach, this is a violation of the pledge, this is the abandonment of the Balfour Declaration, this is the end of the vision, ..."

2

HA,

22/10/2006 08:43:41

I think that the majority of British people are well aware of what the Jews experienced during the Holocaust and would sympathise with whatever the Jews did to save the small majority of Jewish survivors of the Second World War. Of course the people who take every opportunity for Israel-bashing will also use this to continue to vent their spleen regarding Israel, but no doubt decent people's sympathies will lie with the Jewish survivors. Personally I have every sympathy for Israel as a democraatic nation, surrounded by countries who want to wipe it off the face of the earth. I think you would be helping your country best by expanding on more details of the White Paper, rather than criticising the Scotsman, concentrating on factual corrections. Don't let your emotions get in the way of spelling out clearly and lucidly the real facts, backed up wherever possible., with references.

3

Alex.,

22/10/2006 10:20:09

Using forged money to travel to the Middle East to steal land from the Palestinians and having Jewish terrorist groups bomb and shoot to get your own way. Not a very good start, was it? Now Israel is surrounded by hostile countries. Get the link?

4

A.K.,

22/10/2006 12:43:21

to yoram (1) the name of the book is Krueger's Men, and perhaps if you ead the article properly before jumping in to condemn it you would have noticed that.
Frankly the story does not surprise me one bit.

5

Yoram,

Hadera 22/10/2006 12:53:26

John @2:

Thank you for understanding and for sympathy. You are right, it is too easy to use this forum as a self-therapeutical outlet. Which I sometimes apologize for :)

But unless you think that Scotsman's editor is as uneducated as most of the posters on this forum, the problem is not with facts but with Scotsman's editorial policies.

6

Yoram,

Hadera 22/10/2006 12:55:44

The real problem, unfortunately, is much broader than Scotsman taking advantage of uneducated crowd and its extends way past helping my country (cf. 7/7).

1. Facts:
- What is Islam's relation to Western values?
- How Palestinian refugees are a weapon of Jihad?

2. What is the role of modern media in Jihad in general and anti-semitism in particular?

3. Why and how does Scotsman in particular SYSTEMATICALLY side with Jihadists?

7

Mandelson,

UK 22/10/2006 15:24:24

Some experts say the map of Palestine was also faked to show that its an empty region in order to fool the UN into giving the land to Jews. No wonder there are no maps of the area before world war two.

8

Yoram,

Hadera 22/10/2006 15:57:17

Yes, UN has a history of being fooled and used. Like the UN observers sitting next to Hezbollah positions or establishing uniquely permanent task forces (UNRWA) for GENERATIONS of refugees or giving the HIGHEST per capita financial aid and watching it being used for incitement and terrorism or for Arafat's personal accounts.

But we do not need for fake maps, Mandelson.

Go look at CURRENT maps of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt to see VAST empty territories.

Every one of the neighboring countries must participate in solving Palestinian refugee problem for 3 reasons:

1. All neighbors have participated in creating it.

2. All neighbors except for Israel have plenty of land to give to Palestinian refugees.

3. For a long term peaceful solution, every neighbour must be a part to it.

9

Tighe,

West Hartford, Connecticut 22/10/2006 17:47:45

The German's knew who to go to when it came to forging money. I supposed it was only natural that after Britian and America recuing all those Holocaust survivers, the latter would turn around and pass bogus money to their saviors. I'm still laughing...........

10

NNAMDI,

Lagos, Nigeria 22/10/2006 18:40:38

one thing is clear, weather furged money or not, God had said it and it must happen; the nation of Israel can not be wiped off the map of the earth, historically speaking. from the time of the Babylonians, the Roman emperor who destroyed the Jewish temple mount and the city of David(Jerusalem) and called the region Plestine until now, they just cant do it, no matter how hard they try, the point is that it does not matter weather is forged money or not, the state of Israel has come to stay, all their neighbours should understand this and stop wasting human lives, and money that should have been used for educating those young and good looking palestines people, instead it is used for weapons.

11

HT,

Ireland 22/10/2006 19:02:54

Nnamdi said that "God had said it". So God really is just the great real-estate agent, handing prime real estate by the sunny med to a selected group of people? What sort of deity behaves like that?

John claims that "the majority of British people are well aware of what the Jews experienced during the Holocaust". I find this difficult to believe, because any attempt to go into any detail on the subject is met with huge resistance, so how it is possible to be "well aware" of anything related to jewish holocaust is open to question.

Unlike any other historical 'fact', this particular fact is not open to scrutiny and can not be contested. I'm not for a moment saying that an attempted genocide did not happen, and that many jewish people did not suffer, but to mark it out as somehow special is an insult to those who have suffered elsewhere. The reality is that it is not special, that all the talk of 'never again' has been nothing but empty words - as it has happened again. It is happening in Sudan. It has happened in East Timor. It will happen again. And there is nothing unique about the suffering of the Jewish people when compared with the suffering of others. People have the propensity to be horrible to each other.

To use the suffering of the Jewish people in Germany during the 1940's as an excuse for the attrocities that Israel has committed over the past fifty years is tantamount to spitting on the graves of the holocaust victims.

John goes on to say that "no doubt decent people's sympathies will lie with the Jewish survivors". John, will you sanction the arbitrary taking of land to establish a new homeland for the East Timorese? What about annexing another country to make room for the southern Sudanis?

Decent people's sympathies lie with other decent people, whether Jewish or non-Jewish. Decent people's sympathies will lie with the Russian survivors, the Gypsy survivors, the gay

12

Yoram,

Hadera 22/10/2006 19:15:55

This should give you historical perspective to which Nnamdi refers in @10:

"And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse" (Gen 12:3)

I recommend Mandelson, Tim, and Noel reading the Bible.

Mein Kampf you must have read already.

Which translates in Arabic to My Jihad.

Hence the importance of the title in the article above.

13

Meg McMuffin,

sydney 22/10/2006 20:44:49

God bless you and your people, Yoram. "Palestinians" are in fact refugees from Syria and other Arab countries. They have no more right to the land of Israel than anyone else. The Israelis own it fair and square.

Thank God the USA has the decency to stand behind Israel. wile the anti-semitic European nations undermine your existence in order ot pander to Arabs and neo-nazis.

14

Paranoid,

Toronto, Ontario, Canada 22/10/2006 22:10:27

I'm so tired of the Jewish folks playin' the "Somebody Feel Sorry For Me" trip!

Israel rants and raves about the President of Iran suggesting that Israel should be wiped off the map.

But, is Israel not found to be saying the same things but in a more sophisticated fashion?

"Israel will create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank to Jordan."
--Yitzak Rabin, former Labor Party Prime Minister--

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonization or Jewish state without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
--Ariel Sharon, former Likud Party Prime Minister, Agence France Press, November 15, 1998--

"You don’t simply bundle people onto trucks and drive them away. I prefer to advocate a positive policy, to create, in effect, a condition that in a positive way will induce people to leave."
--Ariel Sharon, August 24, 1988--

Olmert, Sharon's heir, has also recently avowed his commitment to the ideal of 'Eretz Israel':
"Only a person in whose soul Eretz Yisrael burns knows the pain of letting go of our ancestral heritage"
--Ehud Olmert, May 4th 2006, speech to the Knesset whilst presenting the Unilateral Disengagement Plan--

"I believed, and to this day still believe, in our people’s eternal and historic right to this entire land."
--Ehud Olmert, Israeli Prime Minister, to the US House of Representatives, June 2006--

A Date With Bevin
Mike Thomson investigates Jewish insurgency in Palestine after WWll and a plot to assassinate Britain’s Foreign Secretary, Earnest Bevin
BBC Radio 4
By Mike Thomson
July 24, 2006

15

Paranoid,

Toronto, Ontario, Canada 22/10/2006 22:17:59

More than 2,000 years ago the first known acts of what we now call terrorism were perpetrated by a radical offshoot of the Zealots, a Jewish sect active in Judea during the 1st century ad.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761564344_3/associati...

16

Jack,

Delaware, USA 23/10/2006 01:34:59

I have a National Geographic map from before Israel's War of Independence, which clearly shows the division of Palestine into PALESTINE west of the Jordan, and TRANSJORDAN across the river to the east, before they invaded the west bank and partitioned Jerusalem during that War.

17

Michael,

23/10/2006 01:45:44

"Mein Kampf you must have read already.

Which translates in Arabic to My Jihad.

Hence the importance of the title in the article above

Quote From Yoram"


The English translation of Mein Kampf is; My Struggle, My Battle or My Fight.

Jihad literally translates as striving or struggle.


The word Jihad has taken on connotations of “holy war” in recent times though it always has and still means striving or struggle.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+jiha...=

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=define%3Amein+...=

Your meaningless semantics are fruitless with intelligent people.

People in the West are not as ignorant of the Arabic language as you may think and hope.

You might be able to use ignorance as a tool in your Zionist propaganda with uneducated fundamentalists in the US but it will not wash here with any of the peoples of Britain.

“Three questions:
1. Why doesn't Scotsman tell us the title of the new book?
2. Why did Scotsman choose such a sensational title for a history lesson?
3. Why did Scotsman exclude mentioning the White Paper, which is the necessary context for hundreds of "illegal" Jewish operations in Palestine during 1939-1948?

Quote From Yoram"


1. Read the article properly for a start. The book is called Krueger's Men.

2. The title of the article is factual and points out the undeniable link between forged British currency and its foundation with Israel.

3. Illegal Jewish operations? You show yourself to be an apologetic of the Jewish terrorism that was directed against Palestinian Civilians and the British.

Every news story on Israel does not

18

rassool,

south africa 23/10/2006 03:04:00

just a quick comment on what Michael has stated about the anti semitism silencing tool. perhaps the time has come to question what exactly constitutes "semite". from what little i know an arab is a semite and perhaps if this is to be disproved i would like the see the evidence and rationale. from my position i see some sectors of the Jewish people skillsfully excluding the arab from the "semite" equation for political, racist and other reasons. from what i gather and from the comments of the narrow "anti - semitists" the jewish people or most sectors of them are themselves practicising anti- semites. so the charge from the "anti- semite" groups should be more honest and all inculsive rather than the being the current narrow smearing tool that it has become.

19

Frank,

cymru 23/10/2006 08:35:42

Yoram, Contribution of Islam to western values? Well, nothing if you ignore chemistry, mathematics, music, architecture, poetry and astronomy. These have had some small imact on the growth of civilisation in western Europe. Regards, Frank

20

Thomas,

Athens,Greece 23/10/2006 12:20:52

Sounds like another, "the ends justifies the means"...and we should all know that that is the path to corruption - as is the state of Israel.

Therefore, with this realization:

1. I urge Israel to declare itself as a failed state.
2. Declare non-combatant status for five years as it.
3. Dismantles all settlements in occupied territories.
4. Provides funds and locations for transfer of all Israelis out of the country.
5. Dismantles the military, declares the Israeli Constitution as null and void.
6. Turns over all property to Palestinians (and do the planet a grand favor of goodwill towards making peace, finally.)
7. Thank the Brits and Americans for their irrationally blind and, alas, ignorant help in setting up and maintaining the country for 60+years, and lastly -
8. Pack up your bags and get out of the Middle East for good.

Truly. This is the better way.

21

Yoram,

Hadera 23/10/2006 13:45:51

Frank @18:

You mention lots of areas.

Can you be more specific? For instance, when you say "mathematics" what do you mean?

22

Yoram,

Hadera 23/10/2006 14:44:38

Frank @18:

Perhaps I was not precise: I am not asking what do you mean when you say "mathematics."

I am asking:

What specifically have Muslims contributed to Mathematics?

23

Hugh Jars,

England 23/10/2006 15:58:43

Yoram, be serious.

Muslims gave the concept of algebra the name, and then passed on that concept to others. Never mind the fact that the Babylonians invented the concept, the Muslims named it...

Muslims invented astronomy, even although it was practiced by the Chinese in 1,000 BC.

As for music, well Muslims invented the guitar. Indeed the word guitar is derived from the Arabic word qitara. And instruments similar to the guitar have been popular for approx 5,000 years. Oh wait, Islam is only 1,400 years old, so they couldn't have invented it...

Yoram, the Golden Age of Islam would have truly been a sight to behold. And let's not forget, it was the Muslims who perpetuated the view of Jews as money-men; after all, while the Muslims were good at conquering, they needed their Jew slaves to balance the books...

24

Hugh Jars,

Scotland 23/10/2006 16:09:09

Rasool @ 17

From the Cambridge dictionary:
Semitic (adjective)
1 relating to the race of people that includes Arabs and Jews, or to their languages:
Hebrew and Arabic are Semitic languages.
2 OLD USE Jewish
3 describes races such as the Babylonians and Phoenicians that existed in ancient times

HOWEVER:

anti-Semitism (noun)
the strong dislike or cruel and unfair treatment of Jewish people.

I don't know why the distinction is there, but it is. I hope this in some part explains why the terms are bandied about so freely.

25

Yoram,

Hadera 23/10/2006 16:20:10

William @22:

OK, serious.

1. The numbers were developed in India by the Hindus around 400 BCE. However, because it was Arabs who relayed this system to the West after the Hindu numerical system found its way to Baghdad, the numeral system became misidentified as “Arabic” in the eyes of the Europeans. Arabs themselves call the Eastern Arabic numerals “Indian numerals (arqam hindiyyah).

2. The realization that zero was a number was a monumental breakthrough in mathematics that can be compared to the invention of the wheel. Arab participation in the introduction of zero was exactly zero. The only zero the Arabs gave us is Ground Zero in Manhattan.

3. algebra is a science and not a natural phenomenon or a machine. Therefore, it could be neither discovered, nor invented. It could only be founded, the way geometry, for example, was founded by Euclid, who not only formulated its axioms, but developed the very foundation of mathematical thinking.

Al-Khwarizmi did nothing of the kind. He found a method of solving quadratic equations and formulated rules for long arithmetical operations. Those rules could be considered algorithms, and his contribution was marked by deriving the term algorithm from his name.

Similarly, the word algebra derives from the title of his book, ????????? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ?????? — al-Kitab al-mukhtasar fi hisab al-jabr wa'l-muqabala or The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing.

Against the intellectually barren background of the Muslim world, al-Khwarismi does look like a giant.

However, he didn't found algebra or anything else of any importance to us. Without him, algebra today would have been exactly what it is. You can't state the same about geometry and Euclid or physics and Newton.

Also al-Khwarismi wasn't even an Arab. He was Persian. Al-Khwarismi is not his surname; it is a descriptor defining him as a native of the ancient city of Khwaresm, or Khorezm, whi

26

Yoram,

Hadera 23/10/2006 17:43:06

Frank @18:

William and I must have covered music, math, and astronomy.

In your list you still have poetry, architecture, and chemistry.

For poetry, I will take Omar Khayam.

For architecture - ?

For chemistry we have quite a few. Most seem to specialize in home-made explosives.

27

Listen Ear,

28/10/2006 12:29:19

Yoram

How many Innocent People have your Mad Bezerk Mudering mates Killed today?

Killed any more children with Cluster Bombs??

Machine Gunned any more Fisherman?

Shelled any families on Beaches?

Stolen more land?

Bulldozed more houses?

Just a few more kids killed in a REFUGEE CAMP IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY!

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=13&id=1591442006


ALL IN SELF DEFENCE!!

How do Decent Jewish and Israelis live with these atrocities, Mass Murder, Genocide and Athnic Cleansing being carried out in their name???

How do Decent Jewish and Israelis live with these atrocities, Mass Murder, Genocide and Athnic Cleansing being carried out in their name???

How do Decent Jewish and Israelis live with these atrocities, Mass Murder, Genocide and Athnic Cleansing being carried out in their name???


 

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