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Tom English: Silence of UEFA lambs is deafening

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Published Date: 18 May 2008
Football's governing bodies have questions to answer and obvious action to take, but they're opting out, again
SO FAR, everyone and everything has come under the microscope. The vermin rump of the Rangers support, the police, the Rock Steady security personnel, the Manchester City Council, Tesco, the heat, the Mancunian element, the travelling Northern Irish. We've heard it all from every conceivable side but the people we've heard precious little from are the men from UEFA. This was their party after all. Their show.

Where have they been the past few days? Michel Platini? David Taylor?

William Gaillard? Have you nothing to say beyond the blindingly obvious? It was a disgrace? You don't say. Your thoughts are with the Russian fan who got stabbed? How reassuring. You will launch an inquiry? I see.

UEFA's inquiry, as they've already made clear, will begin and end at the City of Manchester Stadium. It will involve the stabbing of the fan and the pitch invasion of the Zenit St Petersburg supporters and nothing else. That is the top and bottom of UEFA's responsibility as they see it. That's what's written in their constitution. Anything that happened away from the ground and it's ostrich time.

Mayhem on the streets after their event. Police assaulted after their event. Cars ransacked after their event. Innocent people scared half to death after their event. Tens of thousands of pounds worth of damage after their event. FTP, UVF, Fenian blood before and after their event.

Nothing to do with them, though. Away from the stadium, see. How can UEFA absolve themselves of responsibility in this way? Are they a governing body or not?

By rights, UEFA should be getting ready to suspend Rangers from European competition for a year. They should look at a video presentation, beginning with the incidents involving PC Mick Regan and the second involving another constable whose own pitiful plight was revealed on BBC Scotland on Friday and decide that they have no other option. Two officers down and two officers extremely lucky to be up and about today. They could have been maimed or killed. That's your starting point, UEFA. Do you condone the brutal assault of these policemen? If not, what are you prepared to do about it? UEFA will not ban Rangers because a precedent of outrageous leniency has already been set. They favour fines but most of all they opt out.

In Italy, nobody gets banned despite violence and murder at their football. Outside the stadium again, though. They can't go and ban Rangers now after turning a blind eye to Italian clubs whose hooligans cause death and destruction seemingly every season.

The fighting in Manchester was by far the most disturbing thing but the blight of sectarianism was there in force, too. As a club Rangers have already had their warnings about bigoted chanting and, to the undoubted mortification of Sir David Murray who has done all he can in this regard, these warnings were ignored by factions in the support last week. Sectarian songs could be heard all over Manchester on Wednesday afternoon.

They could be heard in a service station on the road down there on Wednesday morning. At 8.45am I heard them myself. A group of about 20 started up and only stopped when an elderly fan shouted: "Now, now boys, no sectarianism today."

"Football owes itself to be an example in our societies," said Platini last August. "Football must teach values to Europe – honesty, courage, fraternity, tolerance and peace. Football includes, integrates, and welcomes. It excludes no one, it discriminates against no one, it persecutes no one. The battle that we have undertaken against racism and discrimination is a combat which will only stop when these phenomena have disappeared from our stadiums."

Football persecutes no one. Gosh. Wouldn't it be wonderful to live in the fantasy world of Michel?

Again, note the words 'disappeared from our stadiums'. Do what you like outside is the message. Riot on somebody else's doorstep. Just don't do it in our backyard.

Taylor has come out with similar waffle since being appointed general secretary. "I don't know who they (the bigots and racists) are," he said. "I don't know what interest they have in football. They are not welcome in football or anywhere near it. UEFA has its approach to these problems. We will kick clubs out of European competitions, even national teams if players or supporters act in a racist way. These sorts of sanctions are there and UEFA will not be afraid to use them if the circumstances are serious enough. So we have no tolerance for racist behaviour."

What utter bunk. What unadulterated garbage. UEFA will act if the "circumstances are serious enough," says Taylor.

Since making that statement last year players have been racially abused all over Europe and Taylor hasn't said a word. In November, Zola Matumona quit FC Brussels after being singled out by the Belgian club's president who told Matumona to think about other things than "trees and bananas".

In France, in September and February, fans at Bastia and Metz and Grenoble were involved in racist incidents. One black player gestured to the people who were abusing him and got sent off.

In Montenegro, DaMarcus Beasley and Jean-Claude Darcheville were abused. In Russia, Zenit fans are serial offenders. Dick Advocaat says he cannot sign black players, that the club supporters wouldn't have it. In Germany, Cottbus continue to get away with horrendous chanting.

Closer to home, Russell Latapy was targeted by Hibs fans last September.

None of these were serious enough for the fearless Taylor and the organisation that is "not afraid" to use heavy sanctions. FK Zeta got a ?9,000 fine for their hateful treatment of Beasley and Darcheville. And UEFA have the brass neck to talk about football's courage, honesty and fraternity. Platini and his cohorts speak no more sense than the violent wasters who wrecked Manchester on a breakfast of Buckfast, a lunch of lager and a dinner of a combination of the two. No wonder Platini rose to high office. His Gallic shrug would have deeply impressed the delegates. "What can we do, my friends? We are powerless to act. It says it here in our rules."

UEFA don't do unpleasantness if they can help it. Platini is a great man for presenting medals. If there's a function to speak at, he's your guy. If there's an anti-racism drive to champion he'll happily pose beside little children of all nationalities and vow to stamp out this terrible cancer in the beautiful game.

Then, five minutes later, some unreconstructed Serbians will hound a visiting black player with monkey chants and bananas and Michel will weigh in with his "zero tolerance" mantra, the upshot of which will be a nine thousand euro fine and a UEFA request that they cut out that sort of thing in the future.

Like their big brother FIFA, they are here only for the finer things in life, so expecting them to do or say anything of use in the wake of the Manchester riot is a forlorn hope. Given that so many of them flew through the air the other night you might hesitate to bring bottle into this, but this is a question of nerve and UEFA don't appear to have any. Look at the tapes of the trouble, Michel. Your final. Your night.

But not your job to interfere? How's that then?


Page 1 of 1

 
1

Wee Pal Joe,

18/05/2008 00:27:15
There certainly should be stronger punishment for racist behaviour.

As for trouble away from stadiums that's a difficult one. For example, two Leeds fans were stabbed to death in Istanbul a few years ago. Does UEFA get involved? What would be an appropriate punishment? How about the various fans who have been stabbed on visits to Italy?

The nearness of Wednesday's game let vast numbers of people who do not usually (maybe never in some cases) attend Rangers matches to swarm into Manchester including, I'm sure, an element for whom drunken hooliganism is a pretty regular occurrence. As many of them as possible should be identified and convicted. They should then be banned not only from Ibrox (as they will be) but from all football. But it's a huge can of worms if UEFA choose in the future to "police" cities - or roads, airliners, trains....
2

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 18/05/2008 01:00:43
At last a Scottish newspaper tells it like it was and No Murray spin
3

paulmac,

surrey 18/05/2008 01:11:40
It's not a can of worms Joe....it's a matter of strength of character....and UEFA have shown they don't have it.

4

Cincinnatus,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 01:17:20
Hey Tom,

Excellent article, what's the Hibs and Latapy comment about. I find it hard to believe an ex Hibs favourite getting abused becuase of his colour?
5

hibbie,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 02:01:30
Latapy was applauded on and off the field I was there and never heard any abuse, he is held in high regard by Hibs fans.
6

Alexei Verdy,

Yorkshire 18/05/2008 02:10:02
Everyone knows there is a sizeable bad element amongst the Rangers' support but until people like Bain admit to it and stop repeating "they were not Rangers supporters" line, it will continue. The club needs to face its shame. Until it does, it leads by bad example.
7

,

18/05/2008 03:01:56
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8

Forward not Back,

18/05/2008 03:34:45
Never mind UEFA, rent a quote Gordon Smith has been even more conspicious by his absence since Wednesday. Wonder why?
9

clach,

Far Outer Hebrides 18/05/2008 03:46:11
Disclaimer: I'm a fan of the national team and a frustratingly poor provincial club.

Rangers FC is an organization so rotten to the core that the behaviour of their fans (and players back in Watty's first reign) is tolerated, if not actively encouraged. It's a beastly club which stokes this sectarian nonsense and the "no one likes us" mentality as a matter of fact.

The behaviour of Rangers fans was so predictable at the UEFA Cup final. When fans of the national team, or any other Scottish club go abroad, there isn't this trouble, but it's omnipresent with the Gers.

How many Saltires versus Union Jacks on Wednesday? 1 for every 100 I'd say. Why, because the colours match the team's strips (when was the red introduced by the way? Not until at least the latter half of the eighties, as far as I can remember)? No, just so they can "get it right up" the other half of Glesga. Admittedly, there's a disgraceful amount of tricolors amongst Sellick's fans too.

I guess the bottom line is this: the rest of Scotland should either hope (i) the InFirm move to Engerland as they always threaten to, or (ii) the City of Glesga itself drifts down the Firth of Clyde and is scuttled at sea, for the benefit of mankind.
10

,

18/05/2008 04:14:44
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11

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18/05/2008 04:30:01
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12

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18/05/2008 04:41:15
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13

Celtic Forever,

No-one likes them, they don't care 18/05/2008 04:53:48
107 in a row, you're kidding no-one.

How dare you try and defend this repulsive institution. No-one denies that celtic, hearts and others have an element amongst their support that let their clubs down, but for institutionalised bigotry and arrogance, rangers stand alone.

This club has been a blight on decency and sportmanship for generations and morons like you keep playing the "celtic are just as bad" nonsense so often that you probably believe it.

Rangers have no comparison when it comes to violent, repulsive and bigoted fans and until their directors start telling the truth, accept responsibility for the disgusting in-breds that finance theiir club and root them out, then rangers will continue to be the shame of scotland.

I live in Australia but was in Honk Kong last week and these images were broadcast everywhere "Glasgow rangers fans on the rampage". God help the decent people of Glasgow.
14

,

18/05/2008 05:02:35
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15

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18/05/2008 05:16:14
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16

Celtic Forever,

No-one likes them, they don't care 18/05/2008 05:26:11
You are wrong and no amount of repeating your lies will make you right.

As I have said, Celtic, Heart and lots of ther clubs have a bad element but nothing, nothing, nothing comes close to the repulsive, bigoted, medieval nonsense than eminates from rangers fans.

Rangers as an institution is rotten at its core and its directors are liars, hypocrits and aplogists for this cretinous behaviour.

People like you, with your own agenda are too bitter to think for yourseves you you just go with the flow and blame the "old firm", lazily suggesting that celtic fans are the same as rangers fans. UTTER NONSENSE!

There is no old firm. There is Celtic, whose fans can go anyhere and make scotland proud and then there is rangers, a blight on decency, an outdated and bigoted company who remains scotlands shame.
17

Lone Star Don,

Texas 18/05/2008 05:35:16
Why would UEFA get involved if the SFA has done, ahem, Sweet FA about it? The SFA has tolerated the bigotry from the Glasgow clubs for years. Talk about Ostriches.
18

,

18/05/2008 05:59:46
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19

Mrs Miggins,

ENOUGH!!! 18/05/2008 07:22:46
The Scottish press seems finally to be stirring. Every grey cloud has a silver etcetera.

Yes, UEFA should act, but if they don't, then by the same token, David Murray should. Whether he likes it or not, he is indirectly responsible for the shame of last Wednesday. If he has any sense of responsibility and self respect he should withdraw Rangers from European football until he and his board can sort this mess out, whatever it takes. Fill Ibrox with plain clothes security men and detain and ban twenty violent bigots a week.

By 2020 they might start having a respectable support.

Murray has to act. At the moment, NOTHING HAS CHANGED since Wednesday, neither Rangers nor any of their fans (as far as I know) are in line for any kind of punishment. This is simply intolerable and sends out completely the wrong message. It is more embarrassment and shame heaped on embarrassment and shame. Murray has to put law and order, respect and decency before Rangers, at whatever the cost to the club.

Not that he will. And if Murray won't act, then the SFA should. Rangers have been bringing Scottish football into disrepute for decades now. Why should the rest of suffer for a bunch of bams in union jacks? Enough!
20

Thomas J,

Dunfermline 18/05/2008 07:34:49
Refreshingly honest article by Tom English but I suspect that for you Tommy "the red wine is finsished".

Mr Murray does not like journalists who speak the truth and he has more power in Scotland than the First Minister......or at least it seems that way.

21

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 08:08:10
As I understand, Uefa's position is that they will only take action if the trouble is inside the ground.
That therefore means it is the authorities who are obliged to act because someone has to take responsibility for these things happening!
22

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 08:10:06
'Such as if he was getting such a bashing as he claimed how come there wasn't a single mark on him?'

Obviously you didn't see the large bandage on his left arm.
23

big bucks,

kathmandu 18/05/2008 08:20:19
even in this part of the world they saw scotlands shame.Those that have televion that is.
It looks like the gers are having a quadruple bypass.Maybe it was to soon to give wattie the manager of the year,when you consider wee gordon got to the last sixteen of the champions league and maybe one game away from three in arow.
24

jocks by the river,

London 18/05/2008 08:24:14
Once again a thread full of comments of vested interest and bias. Having spent the entire day and night in the city and having attended the game it is fair to say I didn't experience a single incident of violence. The trouble was confined to a tiny minority of fans who I am sure probably do claim to support the club but do nothing but harm (these fans exist in all major clubs which I have seen at first hand across Europe in many games not involving Rangers).

It really is a pity they seem to have driven the disproportionate coverage above although it is restricted to Scotland and not as suggested given any prominence at all in the English press. Tom English is not being free of "Murray bias", he is simply overexploiting the news from the tiny minority to make his point.

Real shame there was no comment of the excellent behaviour of the 35,000 fans that managed to get into the ground and who to a man appluaded Zenit as thet received the cup - no doublt the better team won and there was wide recognition of that.
25

big big fun,

18/05/2008 08:27:47
why has the scotsman stopped anyone from commenting on the rangers sports section ?
26

Alberto.,

18/05/2008 08:50:25
After this fiasco it must surely be way past time for some 'banning' - very serious banning to be applied - by someone beyond ‘the alleged ‘beautiful game’ - still a rare, if not almost extinct creature!

If 'Conkers - Marbles - apple scrumping etc etc.' is considered dangerous by those 'experts' at the 'Elf and Safety' - where do they stand on this Professional football lark - eh? Why their thunderous ‘silence’ on the matter - surely not the financial side of the argument being considered above their ‘piece de resistance’ the actual ‘Elf and Safety’ they are usually very concerned about -above all else, many time to the point of appearing ridiculous!!

Presumably they take the easy way out - by not interfering in organisations that can afford to say 'Get Lost!' - as it seems 'money may be at the root of the trouble' in many ways!

The current money making organisation - the so called 'Professional Football Association', needs to stand well back and look at itself and do something serious about 'this' problem - or hopefully, some outside 'officialdom' does (what an eye-opener that would be - if it came about) - and spoils their cake!!

More and more matches behind much closed doors might help to bring things to a more sensible position - all round!!

There is too much 'bad feeling and deliberate dirty play on the field' to encourage many supporters to reach and express theirs, and as we see with some, their attitude, usually fired up with alcohol and the great opportunity of easily reaching their boiling point (I feel sure they are not their for the football!) and creating their own style of mayhem - 'it don't take much to stir them!' and probably ‘mayhem’ being their target for the day - ‘a bloody marvelous day out for them and their mentality!’ Soon, no doubt, to be repeated - without any worthwhile penalties!!

From what I see, admitted only on TV - I wouldn't risk ‘my life’ attending an actual 'alleged' professional football match - anywhere, seem
27

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 08:52:16
A good article but the fact of the matter is this;

Rangers cannot be responsible for what drunks do outside the vincity of the football stadia.

Uefa cannot be responsible for what drunks do outside the vincity of football stadia.

The police can do something about it. And all Uefa and Rangers can do is alert the police if they think there will be trouble.

In the bigger picture, Rangers could stop playing the "britishness" card as this is definitely attracting the BNP element.

Staying on the big picture, Rangers could come down hard on the orange songs that only fule the fires of hatred.

Until Rangers stop encouraging the scvm element to support them - they will always have this problem.

DEAL WITH IT RANGERS.
28

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 08:53:23
They seem more concerned with pretending that it never happened.
29

Alberto.,

18/05/2008 08:54:08
#26 Cont'd....

From what I see, admitted only on TV - I wouldn't risk ‘my life’ attending an actual 'alleged' professional football match - anywhere, seemingly played by, as so many managers seem to express 'They are Professionals!!' - No matter their behaviour!

It also seems that far too many Fans / Supporters / Spectators / Participants in waiting - call them what you will, many seem to attend because of the opportunity for a good lark, with a 'punch up' and, seemingly, best of all 'a right good P**s Up! - and now I hear, sometimes even at amateur games this attitude is appearing more and more!

The time for action - no matter the cost, is NOW!

30

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:01:04
28

Hi Richardinho,

Not just pretending it never happened but they seem to be more focused on dragging Celtic into it.

This is a RANGERS PROBLEM!

MURRAY DEAL WITH IT!
31

beeree,

local 18/05/2008 09:01:31
I must laugh. 100, 150, 200 thousand people descend on a city and there is an expectation that the low-life will not take advantage by attending, thieving, by fighting, by assaulting innocents. How innocent you are.

Try attending horse-race meetings like Chester, earlier this month, or the Derby or Royal Ascot next month; you will find the same people, or their cousins, in attendance.

Get off your high horses that's life.

I notice that no one has commented that Manchester Police seem to give their colleagues the same support in a tight corner as they do the general public. If the you-tubes are indicative of the police tactics then no wonder they were taken advantage of.
32

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:06:06
31

Hi Beeree

Do you think Rangers more than any other club in Scotland, attract a large volume of scvm supporters?
33

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:09:12
24

So I guess you never saw the Rangers fan in an orange jersey and Rangers baseball cap and scarf behind Michel Platini and the presentation area?????

Have a wee look again at the video and tell me if you think he was applauding or abusing Zenit?
34

Scota Nostra,

Manchester 18/05/2008 09:13:39
If UEFA continue to ignore the trouble caused by football fans, such as was shown on Wednesday, then I can see the day when police will refuse to cover football.A ban on Rangers competing in Europe will force the management at Ibrox to stop the music played before matches which seems to encourage sectarian songs and chants.I hope it is a very long time before Rangers again visit Manchester.
35

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:20:23
#25 I would think the answer is obvious, its to stop the holier than thou attitude and bile from the celtic fans who want to do nothing but gloat at the situation. celtics fans are not remotely interested in the good name of Scotland or anything else just as long as Rangers get shown in a bad light, end of story. So please stop moralising, the hypocrisy is sickening.
Have a nice day.....
36

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:21:50
34

Spot on mate.

Just imagine this.

Manchester has just experienced one match involving Rangers. Imagine what it's like in Glasgow.

After many Rangers big games (especially Celtic) there is widespread violence and hatred.

Plus once a year the Orange lodge (aka Rangers extreme supporters club) march in their thousands through Glasgow and behind them is a drunken rabble of hundreds if not thousands of hatemongers causing trouble (the rabble behind this march of hate are the ones often incapable or non-acceptable for the Orange order). Imagine being so low in society that an extremist group with decreasing numbers is refusing you entry! Yes that's the scvm we've had to put up with for years, decades!

It has to stop.

MURRAY DEAL WITH IT!

37

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:24:05
#33 Again you take isolated incidents and attach it to the majority. By your logic the celtic fan who assaulted Dida means all celtic fans are criminals?.
The celtic fan who made airplane gestures at Claudio Renya means all celtic fans are racist?
Yes/No?
38

eric,

lothian 18/05/2008 09:24:17
Manchester city centre is tiny and not suitable for big events like this,the violence was awful and shouldnt be too hard finding culprits,well done to the majority of the 200 thousand rangers fans .
39

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:26:10
35

Gerry, the truth often hurts mate. I find it strange that you are sickened by Celtic fans attitude yet seemingly not sickened by the sight of hundreds of thugs attacking policemen and terrorising hundreds of thousands of Mancunians.

Gerry STOP focusing on Celtic.

Gerry FOCUS on the giant boil on the back of humpbacked Rangers. It's RANGERS problem - if you are a fan of any kind then DEAL WITH IT! If you don't then accept everything that's coming to you!
40

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:26:58
#36 I guess you have never seen the upstanding citizens who attend and follow pro republican marches then?
41

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:28:31
40

Gerry, STOP focusing on Celtic.

Deflection will not work.

Help solved Rangers problem if you care about Rangers.

It's RANGERS PROBLEM! DEAL WITH IT!

42

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:33:06
#39 If you had read my articles on friday/saturday you would have seen clearly that my critisism of the loutish element was very clear.
I more than anyone wants this element out of football as they are a disgrace to my club.
I think it should be recognised that the vast majority, of whom I was one, were good ambasadors for the club and country, unfortunately let down by a few.
43

sambenito,

Glasgow 18/05/2008 09:36:37
All the evidence UEFA needed was right in front of them on Wednesday, IN THE STADIUM.

"The famine is over, why don't you go home?"

Loud and clear and certainly not restricted to a minority.
44

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 09:40:30
42

So what did you do then on wednesday to stop the riots?

And what have you done since the riots?

Or to put it bluntly, just what are YOU doing Fan of Gerry to get rid of this scvm element?

45

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 09:49:31
"Never mind UEFA, rent a quote Gordon Smith has been even more conspicious by his absence since Wednesday. Wonder why?" (#8)

Gordon Smith has in fact spoken on the matter.

Some folk are trying to use this trouble to attack their favourite targets, usually in an ill-informed way as above.
46

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:49:49
#44 You have proved by your last comments to be not only a fool but someone who has lost touch with reality. What the bloody hell would you have wanted me to do to stop the riot on wednesday. Say "come on now chaps please behave" what an idiot.
As for what have I done since, well very little actually as I await to see what the outcome of the various investigations taking place.
As I have said previously I attend Ibrox for every home game and there is no trouble, no sectarian singing - please remeber what is considered sectarian before jumping in with a reply - and certainly no racist chanting. So what would you have the club do?
47

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 09:52:04
"The behaviour of Rangers fans was so predictable at the UEFA Cup final" (#9)

Rangers fans had previously been on nine European away trips this season without a single arrest. A European final in our backyard was an exceptional situation.
48

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:53:32
#47 I know it hurts but its no excuse. This very vocal and violent minority let the club down.
49

sambenito,

Glasgow 18/05/2008 09:54:14
#46

No racist chanting at Ibrox? Don't make me laugh. Noel Hunt was singled out last weekend. "The famine is over, why don't you go home?", rang outpractically every time he had possession.
50

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 09:54:27
#27,

Some of your comments are sensible but there is nothing wrong with Britishness, any more than there is anything wrong with Irishness.
51

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 09:58:53
#49 Yes you are correct in that but again this is very rare and it was not the majority and please dont tell me similar things dont go on at parkhead. What I am saying is that in the big picture things at Ibrox are generally very good.
52

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 10:00:33
"Manchester has just experienced one match involving Rangers. Imagine what it's like in Glasgow.

After many Rangers big games (especially Celtic) there is widespread violence and hatred." (#36)

Hysterical, one-eyed nonsense. Do you really expect folk to believe there are scenes like Manchester on a regular basis (as distinct from the usual trouble you see in cities on a weekend), all perpetrated by those nasty Rangers fans and none by the angelic Celtic support?
53

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:02:20
50

I have never said there was anything wrong with britishness. But britishness is not exclusive to Rangers. There are 92 British clubs.

Rangers claiming to be the "british" club attract the nationalist element - ie the BNP. In the BNP there is a violent undercurrent.

All I am saying is why don't Rangers drop all the Britishness stuff and just focus on Rangers the football club.

Celtic FC don't play the Irish national anthem or celebrate Irish wars with blaring tunes over the tannoy.

If Rangers don't stop it - then accept that your club will attract a large volume of bigoted racist scumbag nutters.

DEAL WITH IT OR BE DRAGGED DOWN.
54

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 10:07:54
Ranger's book of excuses gets thicker by the day;

'The tv screen broke down'
'I was english fans'
'It was the councils fault'
'It was the police's fault'
'the video footage is selective'
'people criticising rangers are worse than the rioters!'

Take your medicine, and deal with it!
55

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 10:08:41
#53,

This talk of the BNP is just agenda-peddling and an attempt to demonise. There is no significant element of such people attached to the club.

And Celtic obviously play on their Irish identity - not that there's anything wrong with that imho. Should they stop because it might attract some violent Irish Republicans?
56

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 10:12:51
#55 I agree 100%
57

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:13:40
46

There are many things you can do FoG if you really want to. Here's a few suggestions as you obviously not the most imaginative soul are you?

1. Write to RFC/Murray and complain about the scvmbags who ruined your big day.

2. Write to RFC/Murray and complain about them playing the british card and accepting the orange songs.

3. Study footage or ask other supporters to identify who was responsible - the report them to the police.

4. Set up a fundraiser for all Rangers fans to chip in then Send a cheque to Manchester City Council to pay for the damage.

5. Send a card with apologies to Manchester City Coucil, the Manchester Police and the Manchester crew who were working on the big screen.

6. Send a letter of apology to Zenit for spoiling their big day - explaining why Rangers attract these scvmbag bigots.

7. Condemn all Rangers fans who sing any song that is anti, or is hate based.

8. Send a card/cheque to all the casualties including the Russian fan who was stabbed.

9. Contact Uefa/RFC/the Police and offer yourself as a witness to the violence if you saw it or encourage others to stand as witnesses if they saw - and finger the culprits.

There's NINE in a ROW Fan of Gerry.

There's a lot more you can do.

Rangers have a problem. A big problem. DEAL WITH IT!
58

FAN OF GERRY,

18/05/2008 10:14:15
Well gents I'm off now to enjoy the day.
Have a nice day.....
59

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:17:50
55/ 56

So who were the people?

Who were the people who attacked policemen?

Who were the people who ransacked Manchester - leaving it like a war zone?

Who were the people who were singing sectarioan racist songs?

You like to sing "we are the people" So just who are the people who carried out this disgrace?

Are you brave and honest enought to DEAL WITH THIS?
60

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:19:54
58

The going gets tough and wee FoG disappears (probably up his own backside)as he says in his big tough Govan accent "Have a nice day!"

RFC = Scotland and football's Shame!
61

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 10:30:52
From Newcastle in the 60's through Barcelona in the Seventies, Leeds in the 80's Bradford in the 90's and Manchester in the 2000's and many many more places and dates in those 40 years I have seen the violence, the sectarinism and the disgraceful attacks on innocent people by so-called follow-followers of Glasgow Rangers.

The same refrain follow-follows each incident, it wisnae us! it was the polis being heavy handed! the vast majority were peaceful. and so on and so on....

The 200 to 2,000 fans involved in the trouble at MC would still have been there if there was only 20,000 of a travelling support so do not take the percentage route here.

And the many many thousands 20-50-70,000 singing NO SURRENDER? Surrender or you will die DIE DIE? at a fete? a festival? a football match?

No pope in rome. Billy boys. 'Fenxan' blood all were heard on camera on wednesday. That was not a minority but a major minority of people which shows endemnic entrenched sectarianism within RFC follow-followers.

No wonder that Rangers will only be welcome in the Chelsea area of London and no other place in England (maybe Europe) for friendlies and the Police will try to ban their fans from attending European games in England in future.

Do not try to put Celtic's good conduct alongside Rangers history of violence and mayhem! Except as a comparison between good and not good.

There is no Old Firm!

AND on a last note!

WIN IT FOR TOMMY!
62

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 10:31:07
#59,

All kinds of folk streamed into Manchester who rarely if ever set foot in Ibrox (the sheer numbers tell you that). I have no doubt this included a significant element of "neds" and other undesirables, attracted by a giant street party so nearby.
63

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 10:31:37
TIM

Nothing wrong with Govan or a Govan accent I come from there!
64

Celtic Forever,

No-one likes them, they don't care 18/05/2008 10:38:33
Deal with it Sir wantaway, you can't buy your way out of this one, even if your in-bred fan base keep trying to drag the good name of Celtic into things.

You rangers fans should be ashamed of yourselves with your "yous ur as bad as weee ur".

DEAL WITH YOUR PROBLEMS AND GIVE EVERYONE ELSE SOME PEACE
65

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:48:06
63

So do my family.

The remark was a play on the camp US comedy phrase "Have a nice day" Which Fan of Gerry always uses.

The dig is at FoG's adopting this US phraseology when he claims to be a born and bred Glasweigian.

It's not a dig at Govan or it's people. My bloodline goes back through the history of Govan - my great gandparents where married in St Anthony's in Govan 150 years ago and my Great Great Grandparents settled there when they left Ireland - when they arrived in Govan it was not part of Glasgow and was in fact just a village with thatched cottages on the riverside.

Changed days eh?

66

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 10:49:52
Just about One week ago the press were getting geared up for a post UEFA Cup final clamour for Sir Walter Smith - I have been told (not sure that this is reliably informed) that the urging for Sirship would have been done alongside calls for a Posthumus sir-ship for big jock!

So follow-followers of RFC not only did you cost Wattie his 'nightie' but you again have combined to affect the memory of Jock Stein.

Thanks a bunch!!
67

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:51:21
Paris

RFC fans are not welcome in Chelsea (my business is based there and the locals don't have anytime for RFC)

If they are welcome anywhere it is in Millwall and Leeds and places where the BNP are rife.

Despite the denials the Rangers attract the BNP element.
68

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 10:51:27
OK Tim.
69

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 10:57:53
68

On a final Govan note, my great grandfather and great uncles (some 5 of them) and my grandfather and grand uncles (some 7 of them) and my uncles (5 of them) all worked in the Govan Shipyards mainly as riveters on some of the world's biggest, best and most famous ships.





70

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 11:05:23
Tim/

Like a lot of ex-Govanites I have similar family history to yours.

Baile a' Ghobhainn is definitely changed now.
71

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 11:12:48
70

What's amazing about it, is that my forefathers must have watched Govan being built. My Grandfather (God rest him) could remember visiting Byres Rd as a boy and the road was full of byres - ie cow sheds. My great Grandfather was saved from the biggest disaster on the clyde when the ship the Daphne sunk on launch.
And just over 100 years ago travelling from Govan to the town was a marathon event of either walking along cobbled streets for miles or jumping on the back of a cart being pulled by a shetland.

It's hard to fathom the speed of change that happened in Govan/Partick over the last 150 years.

72

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 11:20:46
Lol TIM
Everything has changed in Govan but nothing at Ibrox!!!!!!
73

James fae blantyre,

18/05/2008 11:25:05
Tom English is either naive in the extreme or suffering an emotional hangover from his team being humiliated on and off the field this week.
UEFA have never taken action against clubs with prejudiced signing policies. Dick Advocaat took the job at Zenit with full knowledge that this would not be an issue. After all, he spent a number of years at a club with a century long anti-catholic sectarian employment policy (even the political powers within Scotland and Britain left that one alone).
As for David Murray doing everything possible to root out sectarianism - nonsense. Mr Murray had a knee jerk reaction to the possibility of the fans leading to euro sanctions. There was never any planned, long term moral stance approach to this. Think back to the orange strip, the tunes on the tannoy encouraging the add ons, the countless paramilitary banners (especially against Celtic), the billy boys, no pope of rome, we arra peoplle etc etc...
David Murray has reacted to being penalised by UEFA. Even now, with the Mrtin Bain pronouncement that the Manchester trouble had nothing to do with people associated with Rangers, there is a fundamental refusal or inability to face up to the facts. Until Rangers as an institution publicly acknowledges that there are real and serious ingrained difficulties through the whole club, there will be no real or lasting movement away from the difficulties that are a contituent part of who Rangers are after 100 years of blind eye neglect .
74

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 11:37:13
73

Murray can maybe do something in the long term by gradually cutting out this whole "britishness" thing - that is quite a stupid thing anyway as ALL Clubs in the UK are british anyway, but there is precious little he can do to stop ticketless thugs getting drunk hundreds of miles away and causing trouble!

He could introduce a policy that if you have fans with a recent violent or sectarian criminal record then that record bans them from getting a season ticket and he could stop playing all the songs and permitting banners that rally hatred.

Other than that and Murray and Rangers are powerless. This problem I believe will get worse before it gets better.
75

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 11:41:39
Just a thought.

Would Identity Cards help prevent mass rioting and hooliganism by Rangers fans?
76

James fae blantyre,

18/05/2008 11:47:26
74
I really believe that far from being powerless, it as a direct result of how rangers have positioned themselves as a club and an institution over many decades, that such people attach themselves to them.
You cannot be a club of intolerance and arrogance and not expect intolerant and arrogant people to align themselves to you.
Rangers must publicly denounce all that is poisonous within their midst and consistently do so. They need the stomach and single mindedness to put up with the flack they will receive because of this. That has been the problem in recent years. There are, I'm sure, many people at Rangers who want to move on and become a more positive and embracing club, but their is the fear of both the vitriolic and financial backlash this will provoke.
Must be done though.
77

,

18/05/2008 11:57:30
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78

James fae blantyre,

18/05/2008 12:02:32
77
You prove my points exactly (74, 76).

Rangers and their fans need to remove their heads from the sand and stand up as men and admit they have a serious problem.

Only then will the world begin to show respect and give you credence for taking the issues seriously.

Incidentally, Tom English is a Rangers fan, just as Graeme Spiers is. Just because you do not agree with someone, does not mean that they cannot possibly support the same team as you.
79

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 12:03:45
No. 71

Tim here is a little about the Daphne (you can get more at http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=3340)

On July 3rd 1883 the small steam coaster Daphne was launched from Alexander Stephen's Linthouse yard. Single screw, iron hulled, she was 177 ft long by 25.3 ft beam, giving a length to beam ratio of 7.0:1 Daphne had been orfered for the Glasgow, Dublin and Londonderry Steam Packet Co, which later was absorbed into Burns Laird, now part of P&O.

The specification had been drawn up by their Superintendent Marine Engineer who had been given strict instructions as to type of equipment used, overall dimensions, etc.

Not being a naval architect, all this was decided after studying the previous ships in the fleet, the builders being expected to perform the detailed design work and stability tests. Linthouse did not have a fiiting out berth, so the 2 cylinder compound diagonal engine was installed prior to the launch. The boilers were not installed at this point, but the fiddley deck was left off to allow the boilers to be fitted at the Broomielaw.

Fitting out was well advanced, but delivery was scheduled for early August, so nearly 200 men were on board so that they could keep on working while the ship was towed to Broomielaw. Just before noon the ship was launched, slipped quietly into the Clyde and came to rest due to the action of the drag chains.

Within a few seconds of coming to rest, the ship suddenly heeled to port, paused, recovered slightly, then heeled over again, this time not slowing or recovering. The ship rolled over completely, trapping most of the complement below decks. Despite the best efforts of rescuers only about 70 survivors were recovered, a total of 124 men and boys losing their lives. The speed of capsize was assisted by the men all sliding to port, 30 tons of loose gear on deck doing the same, and by water entering the ship through the boiler access hatch.

The ship was righted a few days later and
80

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 12:05:27
The ship was righted a few days later and taken to what became Govan No 1 drydock, then known as Salterscroft Graving Dock, where she was subjected to exhaustive stability tests. An enquiry was opened and much detailed evidence was collected.

Stephen's were commended for the assistance they gave the enquiry, no fault was found with the launch arrangements at Linthouse and the cause was reported to be little inital stability combined with excessive loose gear and personnel aboard.

One of the outcomes of the disaster was the limiting of personnel aboard to only those necessary for mooring the ship after the launch.
81

,

18/05/2008 12:08:27
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82

,

18/05/2008 12:11:51
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83

Paris Loyal,

Paris 18/05/2008 12:13:25
107

Didnt see any rioting in your post?
We self police that is the difference and its the older guys who have a duty to educate the younger guys in order to keep it that way.
Sectarianism and loutish behaviour is not tolerated by Celtic or the fans. Thats why your post is so meagre in gory details.


84

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 12:15:35
82 - gorgieboy

DEFLECTION, DEFLECTION, DEFLECTION!

Don't point fingers at other clubs that have nothing to do with RANGERS PROBLEM.

It's Rangers BIG BIG PROBLEM.

DEAL WITH IT!
85

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 12:17:43
80

Paris, thanks for that, really interesting. I think that disaster was the worst ever on the Clydeside.
86

James fae blantyre,

18/05/2008 12:24:35
107 in row

You really are hurting. Rangers riot in Manchester and it seems now to be the fault of Celtic fans disrupting a minute's silence for Queen mother. Pathetic. Look at yourself please. Facts would be helpful too. I was at the celtic home game on that day and there was no shouting during the silence. Some people demonstrated their democratic right not to stand up, but no embarrassing stuff at all.
87

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 12:26:25
At the last Celtic v Rangers match, the Celtic support at the Jock Stein stand unfurled a banner with the words "Scotland's Shame -> " , the arrow pointing at the Rangers fans.

It was studiously avoided by the entire Scottish media, who know perfectly well that it is amongst the Rangers support that the real thuggery of Scottish football is to be found. There is a hard core of Rangers fans who believe themselves to be above the law, above everything really that doesn't share their religion of hatred , violence and alcohol.

They are a danger to society and a cancerous lump on the Scottish landscape. They have been allowed to fester for decades, and it is only in the last few years that the body politic in Scotland has started to recognise the scale of the damage that the institution of RFC causes to society.

Rangers are a menace, an unholy priesthood of hatred and evil. They are unable to change, they refuse to change , they cling to their bitterness and carry it forward.
Perhaps the events in Manchester will give greater impetus to the politicians and law enforcement agencies to isolate them for everyone else , and recognise that they do represent a serious threat to good order in Scottish Society...this club serves as a focal point for all the very worst attitudes within Scottish society. Severe measures have to be taken to bring it to heel.

88

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 12:42:35
My attitude to Tom English has totally changed.

The way he wrote about that dodgy corner Celtic got at Motherwell , and the nauseating sycophancy with which he wrote about Walter Smith in the build up to the secon Celtic v Rangers game convinced me that the man was incapable of maintaining any sense of balance when writing about Celtic and Rangers.

Tom English is obviously a Rangers fan, but he hasn't missed and hit the wall about what happened in Manchester...none of the nauseating crap that we've heard pour from the mouth of Martin Bainochio ( remind me, what did he say about Cousin's release clause ?).

So, I didn't think Tom English had it in him to write critically about RFC...clearly, I was wrong in that assessment.

Reporting Scotland gets a big nothing out of ten for their news coverage broadcast about an hour before the kick off in Manchester. On two or three occassions, they showed us images of drunken Rangers yobs singing Hullo Hullo , we are the billy boys....but when it came to the 'we're up to our kness', there was a rather sudden 'director's cut', before moving swiftly to another group of drunken Rangers yobs.
89

,

18/05/2008 12:47:47
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90

James fae blantyre,

18/05/2008 12:56:59
107 row

Why do you jump so avidly to the defence of rangers?

And I was at both matches you speak of and there was a marked difference in terms of respect shown by fans.

Dry your eyes and pray to the angels and saints that God will help Rangers will mend their ways.
91

,

18/05/2008 13:04:09
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92

Wullie67,

18/05/2008 13:05:06
You know it's only a matter of time before Rangers and Celtic join the Premiership... ha ha ha
93

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 13:06:11
87

Reading you're post it saddens me that the moronic element that travelled to Manchester in the guise of being RFC supporters has given you the option of posting a rather vicious post in regards to all Rangers supporters.

While I agree that a mindless minority caused trouble and shamed the club and country with their actions, you prefer to tar all RFC supporters with the same brush. What of the thousands who went to Manchester and just enjoyed themselves?

As for what action the club can take to control idiots who cause problems away from the stadium, I would think they would be looking for help from outside sources, be it the police, politicians or whoever can advise the club on segregating itself from the yob element that claim to be football supporters.

As a Gers supporter I was embarrassed by what was shown on TV, but as a football supporter I would lay down money that the moronic group that caused the problems in Manchester have never stepped foot inside Ibrox, the yobs could not afford the season ticket. prices.
94

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 13:20:36
gordon smith has spoken..he quoted from the bain / murray excuse book...a big crowd easy for non rangers fans to attach themselves to it...suprise suprise..
sad that hooligans would find rangers such an attractive club to "attach" to..anyhoo we do know what happened and yes the majority went and tried to enjoy the occasion..but there does seem to be a core of fans at rangers who are still living in the football dark ages....friends who are rangers fans tol;d me they feared the worse as they see the scum at every hom,e game..and multiply the numbers and trouble was on the cards ..sad x
95

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 13:23:49
107..i see you listing celtics misdemenours and slagging the journalist..but what did he print that was wrong ???
96

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 13:25:10
#91 reading this post suggests tattie hauker has a new identity...why not try to keep within the bounds and you can keep the same id on here..x
97

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 13:27:16
#93..as post #87 is over the top your own refusal to recognise the hooligans within your club let you down...im guessing quite a few have been in ibrox plenty of times...youve probably seen them yourself
98

,

18/05/2008 13:35:33
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99

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 13:38:12
97 sonofcosmos

As to my post @93. What more do you want me to say, as a supporter of RFC I was sickened by what happened in Manchester.

Let me ask you what can the club do to eliminate the yob element that attaches itself to a football club. And causes trouble outside the ground.

I have suggested seeking input from the politicians the police and any other outside force that can help weed this situation out from the club.

I know of numerous supporters who have emailed Ibrox and told the club they are ashamed of what happened on Wednesday and hope that the club can take action along with the police to charge and convict the idiots responsible for the rioting. We dont not want this type of supporters claiming to be RFC supporters.
100

Eddie,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 13:39:28
Its time for David Murray to be seen to take some positive action, before next season. Let him inform every season ticket holder, and follow it up with a flyer attached to every ticket sold, that no Union Flags, no abusive banners, no racial chanting will be allowed. AND THEN ENFORCE IT. It's not difficult.
Stewards and CCTV can identify and eject anyone breaking the rules.
Two or three years of rigid application of these sanctions, and things might begin to improve.
If he actually has any wish to help his club regain any form of respect, he should do this, and force his point to the masses, by withdrawing from European Competitions for a year.
And if he won't do it, the SFA/SPL should dam well tell him to do it.
101

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 13:42:51
93

Brian you surprise and disappoint in equal high dosage.

Many of thugs go regularly to Ibrox. Don't think yobs can't afford tickets - a lot of them are middle class yobs.

It's also not a tiny minority but a substantial volume of some thousands.

Also these thugs ARE Rangers fans - not Partick Thistle or Clyde or Inverurie Cherrypickers fans...they are RANGERS FANS!

The club can take a long term strategy.

1. Ban sectarian songs.

2. Ban Orange songs

3. Ban Union flags

4. Ban all the britishness attachment - we are all British clubs.

5. Ban all the war tunes before the home games.

6. Ban anyone with a violent or sectarian criminal record from getting a season ticket.

7. Issue official club ID cards for away matches.

8. send out a list of "expected behaviour" to fans before away games.

9. Apologise to Man City Council and Manchester Police and send cheques for damages.

10. apologise to Zenit SP for ruining their greatest occasion.

11. Apologise to the catholic church for their 100 year anti-catholic policy and for their fans singing hate filled anthems.

12. Apologise to the Irish people for their fans singing hate filled anthems.

13. Apologise and send money to the innocent victims caught up in this tragedy.

There's a bakers dozen that RFC could do.

Easy innit.

102

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 13:44:35
#99..i wasnt really saying your response wasnt fair..my point was that you are saying these fans really have nothing to do with rangers..my point is that why they should attach themselves to rangers lies at the heart of rangers problem...
103

Eddie,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 13:44:39
No 99 Yes something has to be done, but "politicians, police, convict the idiots" is wide of the mark. If the nutters who were responsible in Manchester could all be found, charged and convicted, even spoken at by politicians, what good would that do? You cannot educate sub-humans by punishing them after the event.
Cut the cancer out - remove them from any attachment to the club, refuse to allow them any space, get rid of them. They will then be just normal criminals outside the ground for the police to scrape up, but they will not be attached to football.
104

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 13:49:08
#101..celtic can feel quite proud that they have moved quite far away from much of the moronic attachments..but tim some of your points show we have some way to go...point 4 is pretty laughable as im sure if a rangers fan told you to cut your irishness aas we are a scottish club..you would hardly agree..please think before some of your more ott posts x
105

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 13:58:32
104

Difference is Cosmos, Celtic have a genuine Irishness. They were founded by an Irishmen to feed the Irish immigrants. But essentially Celtic are a Scottish and British club not an Irish one.

If Celtic were told to remove all things Irish and it meant removing thousands of thugs who were spoiling it for everyone then I'd have no problem whatsoever with that.

I stand by POINT 4...All UK Clubs are British. It's not exclusive to RFC and it's because they play this British card that attracts extreme elements linked to the BNP.

It's not OTT - Rangers have to lose the Britishness as they are no more British than Celtic. In fact, I am probably more British than many RFC fans. My forefathers helped build many of Britain's greatest cities like Glasgow and fought in two world wars (some even died), so I have no doubt - I am British not Irish. But I am also proud of my Irish connections as they made great strides despite the prejudice and bigotry they faced.

106

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 13:58:35
Tim,

1. The club has banned sectarian singing
2. Same as above
3. Flags have no bearing on what happened in Manchester
4. I consider RFC to be a Scottish club, if you're proposal went through does that mean banning the tricolour at Parkhead?
5. Its just tunes
6. I agree
7. I agree
8. I agree
9. I agree
10. Rangers fans in the stadium stayed and cheered Zenit when the received the cup.
11. I don't do religion and it has no place in football.
12. Both clubs supporters have both been guilty of this indiscretion.

I want the scum element eradicated from my club and I hope they (RFC) take actions to do so.
107

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 14:03:23
103 Eddie

I echo you're sentiments.
108

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 14:06:08
106

Brian

1. Why do thousands still sing it then?
2. Same as number 1.
3. Disagree
4. If it meant getting rid of thousands of morons YES
5. It's BNP rallying anthems
6. Good - progress
7. same as point six
8. same as point six
9. same as point six
10. Some did others abused them - take a look at the video again and look behind Michel Platini.
11. Tell all your fellow RFC fans that - cause it seems to matter a lot to them.
12. why drag Celtic into it...we've cleaned it up. You have still to DEAL WITH IT!
13. Why no agreement? Don't you feel RFC should compensate the victims in all of this.

It has to stop.

RFC = Scotland's Shame.

Murray/Bain - DEAL WITH IT!
109

Watenaccio is killing Football,

Glasgow 18/05/2008 14:08:02
"no sectarianism TODAY"

That sums up the attitudes at Rangers. A thin veneer has been placed over the problems at Ibrox after the threat by UEFA (not the SFA mind)to dock points or close stands,but if NO POPE OF ROME can still be sung in the Ibrox changing rooms (by the youth team very recently AND, shockingly, not fully reported in the media), clearly nothing has really changed.

While the chief executive of the SFA claims, on national radio, that he never heard any sectarian songs during his time playing for Rangers this problem will continue.

Gordon Smith should resign immediately. We need someone who will show real leadership in this country.
110

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 14:13:25
109

I agree.

At the start of the season Gordon Smith said he'd do two things.

1. Stamp out sectarianism - he gave RFC one warning, but did nothing since.

2. Stamp out cheating - he slagged off Mikolunas but has said nothing about - Boyd, Thomson, Darseville, Daily, Burke, Beasley, Broaddfoot etc...

On top of this he has backed Mike McCurry in the most blatent cheating seen in Scotland for years.

SMITH GO NOW!
111

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 14:16:24
Tim

I don't want to get into a slagging match I have stated my feelings on the disgraceful incidents in Manchester and the shame brought on the club I support by mindless fools. I repeat that in my opinion the yobs that caused the trouble are not true football supporters.
112

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 14:16:55
Gordon Smith is just an old rascal, using (abusing) his office to assist Rangers wherever and whenever he can.

He has shown himself to have racist leanings vis a vis simulation being a johnny foreigner thing, which is all part of the ibrox culture.

He was appauled that uefa took action against Rangers for sectarian singing, hinted at uefa having an agenda against rangers, and then off course castigated Craig Levein for having the audacity to make the same accusation against Mike McURRY in circumstances which were far more persuasive...in truth, there was no rational basis to doubt uefa's treatment of rangers...their fans DID engage in sectarian singing and they were punished for it.

Craig Levein's comments, by contrast, DO have a rationale.

Gordon Smith has not a shread of credibility outside Ibrox. He has, time and time again, allowed his pro-rangers bias to determine his position in several matters, and the point when non-rangers people pay any regard to his comments has long since passed.

It is only Rangers fans who stick up for Smith...ALL other clubs recognise Smith for what he is, and treat his comments accordingly : in one ear , out the other.
113

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 14:21:51
111

Nor me. I don't want to get into tit for tat we'll be here all year.

All I am asking for is the same as you - get rid of the scum. And RFC must really address the problem and not sweep it under the carpet - it's not a tiny minotity it's a substantial volume of hatemongers. It is a RANGERS problem - no one elses's. There is no point blaming everything and anything, RFC must get their house in order and like all change it's difficult but it will be for the better for all in football.

BTW I agree these scvm are not true football fans but they are followers of RFC.
114

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 14:28:01
113

I agree with everything that you say Tim, but sadly we both know that nothing will change at Ibrox.
It is already clear that at Board level, the events of Manchester present no more than a tricky PR problem...that has been the approach : to deflect responsibility away from Rangers and Rangers fans.

Result ? Rangers don't have to do anything because they have PRed the problem away, rather than making the slightest attempt to confront it.

The Rangers board see this as a sticky patch that will soon pass, and Rangers will go on as they were before.
It is very sad, but alas, true.
115

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 14:29:38
"Just about One week ago the press were getting geared up for a post UEFA Cup final clamour for Sir Walter Smith - I have been told (not sure that this is reliably informed) that the urging for Sirship would have been done alongside calls for a Posthumus sir-ship for big jock!

So follow-followers of RFC not only did you cost Wattie his 'nightie' but you again have combined to affect the memory of Jock Stein.

Thanks a bunch!!" (#66)

What nonsense. It's already been made abundantly clear by successive governments that no-one - whether it be Jock Stein, Brian Clough or William Shakespeare - will be getting a posthumous knighthood.
116

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 14:29:45
#93 You are waisting your time with these bigots from the sporting wing of the ira. Look at malloy's logic and the lies he spins.Its ok for celtc to enjoy their irishness but not ok for Rangers to enjoy their Britishness. The same p[oisoned manra they have been sounding for years to hide thir own bigotry. Now its coming out that a lot of the troublemakers in Manchester were casuals from English clubs but do you think that will stop the crap from the scum from paranoiadise? Think again!!
117

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 14:34:49
114 BW

You're post is p!sh. The club will try to change and remove a vile element of the support that brings us shame.

I think the sad part of you're post is that deep down you would rather things do not improve.

Have a nice day.
118

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 14:35:05
115

Who wants a knighthood other than the really saddos in society.

Look at it for what it is.

A bit of metal placed on both yer shoulders by a wee old fat german woman who has been sponging off the sate of years. She then says "arise sir whoever" then what? You go around for the rest of your life with three poncy letters in front of your name that are completely undeserved in most cases.

I prefer to go through life with all my letters after my name - because I worked for them and deserved them and FYI it's four times as many letter as S.I.R.
119

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 14:38:35
#116...gee you have a bit of work to do..this is the week where rangers have been embarressed throughout the world...it goes well beyond celtic fans winding you up...the news of the world today is a pr attempt to keep in with rangers fans ..many of those arrested come from scotland..all those involved were there on the back of rangers ..face up and deal with that..celtic are years ahead of you..and hey its actually nice to have a good reputation...x
120

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 14:39:58
#101 Ban the Union Flag? Why not ban the irish tricolour?
When will semtex FC ban the singing of sectarian songs especially those praising terrorist organisations?
Ban the irish attachment if celtc are a british club!
celtc must apologise to protestants for their sectarian employment policy for not having a protestant director in the first 100 years of theiur history.
celtc must apologise to protestants for their sectarian signing policy.

celtc must denounce brother walfrid for establishing a club on a sectarian basis.

celtc must officially apologise to the families of all the victims of the paedophile scandal involving Jim Torbett.

celtc must apologise to the councils of Blachburn, Newcastle, London, Burnely and Manchester for their depicable baehaviour in visisting these cities.

You, Malloy must apologise to us all for your clear anti-Rangers anti-british and anti-Protestant bigotry.
121

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 14:41:17
#119 Why would the NOTW want to keep in with the Rangers fans?
122

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 14:41:50
#120..glad to see your facing your problems square on x
123

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 14:42:07
120

DEFLECTION once again.

You've got the problem.

DEAL WITH IT!
124

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 14:44:24
122 and 123 I have no problems. You are the ones with problems. You are merely Rangers haters. You hate Rangers more than you love your own seedy club.
125

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 14:46:23
#124 dear oh dear...oh well to be fair rangers havent really been in the news this week...everything must be hunky dory x..and it is funny how your posts drip with hatred so i guess you know what your talking about x
126

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 14:46:40
sonofcosmos please answer my question I posted in #121.
127

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 14:46:46
120

Living in denial is one thing but making up lies is another.

You can't help yourself can you dobulamanzi?

If you had anything about you, you would probably be rioting with the scum in Manchester wouldn't you. But you don't have do you? No you'd rather curl up in bed with your adolf hitler blow up doll and whisper in its ear "we arra peepil"

I apologise on behalf of the human race for the moron that is dobulamanzi. Let's pray for him.
128

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 14:47:53
#125 My post drips with hatred but those of your fellow bigot malloy doesn't? i think we've landed on planet timmy!!!!
129

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 14:49:08
117

If the reaction of the Rangers Board had been anything approaching " we recognise that we have a problem with a sizeable minority of our fans, and we recognise that previous efforts to address this have been inadequate, and we now intend to step back , assess the situation and identify what measures can be taken in order to eadicate the hoodlum element that tarnishes the reputation of the majority of Rangers fans '.

If we had seen ANYTHING approaching that kind of respone, I would have some confidence that there might be reason to be optimistic that things at Ibrox might improve.

But the truth is that the Rangers Board have done everything to deflect responsibility away from RFC and RFC fans.
How then can we have any confidence at all that they intend to implement any changes that might redefine what RFC means to the rest of us ?
130

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 14:50:52
#127 So malloy resorts to childish name calling and scenario building. Looks like he cannot stomach the adult debate. If anyone is in denial its you and your fellow celtc supporters (Rangers haters) towing the Liewell party line in propaganda.
131

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 14:51:37
Brian/Dailyman

No doubt Dobulamanzi is a Rangers fan, but is he a real football fan? Or is he one of the scvm you want to eradicate Brian?

Dobulamanzi - Murray and Bain will squeeze pus like you out of Ibrox forever and I and millions of decent football fans will be smiling.

132

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 14:52:30
#128..i have taken issue with many celtic posters on here..i also try and avoid tiresome cliches like "timmy" ??
as rangers reputation is being hurt throughout the world it suits some media outlets on murrays lap to present the pr view from ibrox.....and intellectually the notw will be manys paper of choice...(d'oh ive blown it with that cheap jibe...i mean even rangers fans aren't stupid enough to believe what they read in the notw)
133

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 14:53:15
#129 I am confident that had the Rangers Board adopted that line you and your fellow lowlifes would still be on here posting the same bitterness except from a different angle. Its what you do and what you do best.
134

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 14:56:33
133

Dobulamanki

Your adolf doll is deflating just like your bigoted arguments.

Go now pus-ball and save yourself from a further slapping.

135

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 14:57:16
#131 Want to debate further or are you only into name calling? Give us another diatribe on the irish famine and how your grandparents were denied employment in Scotland and why it all came back you you when you saw the dreadful decsiions by McCurry in the Rangers vs DUFC game. That one really tickled me.

#132 But you will believe whats in the press when its ant-Rangers.
136

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 14:58:49
"Who wants a knighthood" (#118)

Plenty of Celtic fans want one for Stein....

Stein did get a "British Empire" award though. Martin O'Neill has two.

It's a funny old world....
137

Cappo Del Monte,

18/05/2008 14:59:18
Firstly Dabulamanzi. It is sad you despoil a great Zulu warrior's name with the filth and bile you continually spout.
Fact 1, Celtic FC took in the region of 70-80 thousand to Seville, 1 stabbing with a butter knife between so called friends, after we were beaten by a better team, we left peacefully with the police clapping out behaviour.
Fact 2, You lot invade Manchester, riot amongst yourself, stab a rival supporter in the BACK, attack police, defenceless woman in a car, generally wreck the town, urinate and wreck and steal from shops.
Then you have the cheek to blame English people for the trouble, when quite clearly from the video footage on u-tube and other places, its clearly not English accents. The blame Manchester for a screen breaking down, they did not have to do ANYTHING for you lot invading their peaceful town. You have embarrassed Scottish football all over the world, stopped the people on Manchester from watching the Champions League Final on big screens.
Fact 3, you have thrown thew league now and will be lucky to win a double, ha ha, it is sad for the genuine Rangers fans, 1 of which I heard on TV saying you scum dont deserve to support RFC.
But face it, you have humiliated Scotland and Scottish football
BTY 3 in a row lol
138

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 14:59:21
134 Delusions of grandeur if you think you are winning. I notice this trend with you. After a while when your posts become more nonsensical and you opponent ignores your personal insults you resort to the "I am winning and playing with you" line. Aint gonna work with me.
139

Cappo Del Monte,

18/05/2008 15:01:27
Oh and D before you say I am anti Rangers and a rangers hater, my wife and son both support them :-)

1, 2, 3 in a row
140

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 15:03:14
137 "A butter knife between friends" - a Liewell classic?

141

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:03:35
138

Dobulamanki

It's not even a contest son. Your proving to all that you are an idiot. We're laughing at you like Murray stated.

Now please try and come back at me pus-ball if you can muster a cohesive argument. If not then pull yer tail from between your legs before you exit.

142

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 15:03:40
#135..i believe my contempt for the media is done to death in my postings..on this occasion i was helped out by cctv footage..youtube footage..and some of my rangers fan friends who spoke of their disgust at what they had witnessed their fellow fans do in manchester..
143

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 15:04:23
139 Of course.
144

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 15:05:39
As for the jibe about the Queen being "a wee old fat german woman" (#118), do you think she should "go home"? Is she not really British in your eyes?
145

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 15:06:06
141 is that the best you can do?

142 Your selective disgust don't you mean?
146

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:07:24
song moment one of my faves that I first heard at the start of the season.

Oh tell all the gers you know
that it's gonna be 3 in a row
You club is so murkie
wee Barry's a turkey
It's gonna be three in a row.
147

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 15:09:13
146 I have no doubt celtc will win the league but its a hollow victory. Aided and abetted by cheating officials and the SPL itself.
148

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:09:27
145

Dobulamanki pus

Not the best but I don't waste the good stuff on scvmpots like you.

Noo give yer wee adolf a kiss if it makes you feel better.



149

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 15:10:19
#145 i have said the majority behaved well..as all fans should..it shouldnt be a suprise if fans just go and have a good time without all the aggro we SEEN on wednesday...interestingly i havent heard your take on wednesday..or will you just cut and paste the notw x
cctv youtube and rangers fans pretty sound sources x
150

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 15:10:24
The MP for that part of Manchester is reported in today's observor to be intent on making representations to UEFA about what happened, indicating that he will be seeking that Rangers be disqualified from european competition next season.

Tom English in this very blatt is calling for the same kind of disciplinary action.

I think it would be right the thing to do, but not for just one, but for two seasons.

Then the message would hit Rangers where it hurts : in the pocket, and would force Murray to start taking his own rhetoric seriously.
151

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:10:31
Dobulamanki pus

yadda yadda yadda

STAND UP FOR THE CHAMPIONS show respect.
152

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 15:10:44
148 Deary, deary me. No longer childish, infantile more like.
153

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:12:41
152

That's one way to describe RFC Scvm behaviour. Well done your learning. Not too difficult is it? There is some hope.
154

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 15:12:47
149 I gave my take on earlier reports. I am angry with those Rangers supporters who disgraced the club but your lot are not much better so lay off the cheap shots at us until you are angels.
155

Dabulamanzi,

18/05/2008 15:13:37
153 pathetic
156

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:15:13
154

tut tut a step backwards. Ok let's start again.

Deflecting blame is not the answer.

RFC and YOU have a problem. It's YOUR problem.

DEAL WITH IT!

Geddit? Understand?

Come on put doon yer wee Adolf doll and concentrate.

157

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 15:16:04
154

Yes, there isn't much difference between a shoplifter and an armed robber ...is that what you are saying ?
158

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:19:35
155 - Dobulamanki

Yes they were that too. Good word. So far you have identified that RFC Scvm were childish, infantile and now pathetic. Good. Very good. You are making progress in such a short space of time. Very encouraging.

Now then do you think RFC should ban all traces of britishness and orangism at home games?
159

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 15:22:34
"Now then do you think RFC should ban all traces of britishness" (#158)

Yeah, search everyone in case they have passports, driving licences, or money with the Queen's head on it.
160

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 15:27:10
#159 as ive said tim does go ott from time to time..at least it looks like one vote for independence x
161

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:29:11
159

Good to see you're learning too.

Consficating passports would mean no trouble abroad.

Consficating driver's licences would mean fewer couldf travel to other non bigoted British clubs.

Consficating money is a good idea - then the scvm can't afford to buy hate cds, scarves and bnp newspapers.

Very good, you've leapfrogged Dobulamanki in the 5 plus exam.
162

Backofthenet,

18/05/2008 15:34:31
#161,

Good to see you entering into the spirit of absurdity. Jolly well done.
163

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:35:36
162

Sometimes it's all one can do when idiots like Dobulamanki are around.
164

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 15:41:23
Well I see the beating of the dead horse continues. Tim now wants a police state, BW is privy to what goes on in the RFC boardroom.

And the tic's hands are lillywhite and have no skeletons in the closet.

Tim as far as Dubalamanzi's comments @ 120, were there any untrue points in his post. It has gotten to the point that the tic supporters love dishing the garbage out, but dislike an opposing point.

With the tic are now closing in on 3 IAR, it is scarce to find a post alluding to that fact, I wonder if it is true they hate the Gers more than they like their own club?
165

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:44:30
aw Brian...you upset, diddums. Here's a wee song for you.

Oh tell all the gers you know
that it's gonna be 3 in a row
You club is so murkie
wee Barry's a turkey
It's gonna be three in a row
166

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:46:18
Brian you seriously believe that post 120 is not a pack of lies?

You've got to be winding me up.

If not then you need help, serious help.
167

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 15:48:58
Tim

Not upset at all. While the tic are certainly big favourites for the league, it is still not over, and to coin you're mate Pax "the Blue room's not bare" even though we don't keep the silverware there.

There will be 2 domestic cups at Ibrox next weekend, and who knows what will happen in the league, as there is only one team in Scotland who can do the treble.

So as for me being upset, no chance.
168

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 15:49:40
164

Unlike several Rangers fans ...we're in the last 16, Celtic won't make UEFA...the league is done and dusted...I think you'll find that most Celtic fans do not consider ourselves home and dry.

Celtic will mostlikely have to go to Tannadice and win, somewhere Rangers have managed a mere one point out of six this season..and BTW, you were very lucky to get the one point that you got.

Dundee U will be up for it, they are well organised and they can score goals. Celtic will have to be at their best to collect all three points.
Yes, it's advantage Celtic, but this race isn't over, and we won't be counting our chickens.

I'm delighted that the title is effectively in our hands, but keeping it there will require a huge performance.
169

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 15:53:06
166 Tim

You see my point, an opinion is placed by an individual, because it does not meet the criteria of others it is called lies.

You have you're opinion and others have their own. It does mean you are right and others wrong, it is called a personal opinion or point of view!!!!
170

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 15:53:19
So Brian you're not upset.

Is that the truth?

Because if my team lost a European Final and were completely outclassed, then lost a title to my oldest and most bitter rivals and my club's supporters received widespread criticism for mass rioting and thuggery - then I'd be pretty upset. But hey your not, because your confident RFC can overcome mighty QoS.

You sure need a wee bit of help Brian.
171

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 15:56:11
I really hope Celtic do win the league and that QoS pull of the jammiest win in Scottish Cup history, leaving RFC looking like a bunch of CIS-sies.

I'll be quadrupled up on the floor laughing ...especially when you consider that the only reason they won the CIS is becqause Kenny Clark keked his pants from sending Cuellar off and giving Dundee U a stonewall penalty.
172

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 15:59:02
Tim

The truth not upset. We overachieved in reaching a European final, going on our record over the previous 2 seasons will over achieve by winning a domestic cup double, and as I say the league is not over yet.

Compared with what the tic won when going for the quad in 2003 I am quite happy with the silverware earmarked for Ibrox this season.
173

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 16:01:22
171 BW

Why is it when the tic do not win the League cup, it is suddenly meaningless. Don't you wish you would have won it in 2003 instead of finishing the season with nowt.
174

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 16:04:03
169

No Brian it's lies not an opinion, just bareface lies and I thought you'd be man enough to admit it.

Look at post 120.

"When will semtex FC ban the singing of sectarian songs especially those praising terrorist organisations?"

Lie No. 1 - Semtex FC - there is no such club.
Lie No.2 - If he means Celtic - we have done so already some ten years ago.

"celtc must apologise to protestants for their sectarian employment policy for not having a protestant director in the first 100 years of theiur history."

Lie No.3 - Celtic have never had a sectarian policy.
Lie No.4 - Celtic had protestant directors when they were founded.

"Celtic must apologise to protestants for their sectarian signing policy."

Lie No.5 - Celtic have never had a sectarian signing policy.

"celtc must denounce brother walfrid for establishing a club on a sectarian basis."

Lie No.6 - Celtic was never founded on any such basis.

"celtic must officially apologise to the families of all the victims of the paedophile scandal involving Jim Torbett."

Lie No.6 - The current Celtic board and employees have nothing to do with this - why should they apologise.

"celtic must apologise to the councils of Blachburn, Newcastle, London, Burnely and Manchester for their depicable baehaviour in visisting these cities."

Lie No.7 - English cities like other cities around Europe welcome the Celtic support.

"You, Malloy must apologise to us all for your clear anti-Rangers anti-british and anti-Protestant bigotry"

Lie No.8 - I am not anti Rangers, anti British or anti protestant. I am anti-bigotry and anti hooliganism.

Not opinion Brian, Dobulamanki made up a post packed with lies.

Shame on him and shame on you for defending him.
175

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 16:04:44
#173..i want to win every comp celtic are in..but to be fair the uefa cup was a diddy cup in 2003 according to rangers fans ..x
176

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 16:05:27
173

To be honest, I don't give a monkeys about the CIS...I like to see Celtic using squad players for it (except if we come up against Rangers)...quite honestly I get hacked off if I see any of our regular starters being used in the CIS.
177

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 18/05/2008 16:07:09
#176..cant agree i want celtic to win everything..
178

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 16:07:35
I've been wanting the League Cup abolished for a decade whether Celtic win it or not. It is mickey mouse.
179

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 16:10:06
174 Tim

He like you is entitled to his opinion. As stated before we don't need tit for tat. But what director of Celtic in the past 100 years has not been of the RC denomination.

Big Jock put the tic on the map worldwide with a great team he put together, do you think he was given his just reward from the Celtic board at the time. A seat on the board perhaps?
180

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 16:11:09
177

Are you happy to field a full strength Celtic side in the CIS when , inevitably, there's an spl match just around the corner?

181

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 16:12:39
179

John Glass
Brian Wilson
Allan McDonald
Ian McLeod

There's four non RC directors for a start Brian.

182

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 16:13:58
181 Tim

Then I stand corrected, can you tell me when they served on the board?
183

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 16:13:59
179

Big Jock should have continued as Manager. Giving him a directorship would have been a waste of his talents.

But we did treat him shabbily, he deserved better.
184

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 16:16:59
John Glass - at the outset 1888 - early 1900s

Ian Mcleod and Allan McDonald in the 1990s/2000s

Brian Wilson since 2004 I believe.

There are many others at the start of Celtic's history - The McKillops for example were not catholics but were founder members.
185

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 16:18:08
Tim,

Jock Brown had a seat on the board in the 1990s did he not ?
186

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 16:19:09
185

There's another one.

That's 7 at least.

Tell me Brian how many Roman Catholics have been on the board of Rangers FC?
187

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 16:20:42
Brian here's another one David Thompson - Celtic's Marketing Director is non RC. That's 8 and counting.

How many RC's has there been on the board of Rangers FC?
188

Daillyman,

18/05/2008 16:21:30
186 Tim

I couldn't tell you. But thanks for the info, you learn something everyday.
189

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 16:25:47
Brian

Ian Livingston and Tom Allison there's another two non RC directors on the Celtic board.

That's 10 and counting.

I can tell you Brian Rangers FC have never had ONE Roman Catholic on their board in 125 years of their history.

Who's got the sectarian policy?

190

I-Mac,

18/05/2008 16:35:03
"I can tell you Brian Rangers FC have never had ONE Roman Catholic on their board in 125 years of their history" (#189)

Not so. Bob Brannan was one.
191

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 16:43:30
190

He was on the board very fleetingly and he's not a practising RC as far as I know.
192

James fae blantyre,

18/05/2008 16:47:48
There must be something in pies at ibrox and mini ibrox(tynie), that gives people tunnel vision. It is beyond funny the amount of these pie eaters who have come on this forum in the wake of a week of disgrace and blamed all the events on everything from catholic schools to the death of the queen mother.

Take your blinkers off and lay off the bad pies.

You have a long history of intolerance and right wing nationalism. You reap what u sow, and the manchester disaster was totally predictable. Face it and deal with it.
193

Colin P,

18/05/2008 16:51:59
I think this whole Old Firm Irish/British....sectarian crap is embarrassing.

What makes it even worse is the fact that I can come on these pages and read posts from self-confessed 'professionals' who only perpetuate it by posting here.

Is there any other country in the world where the signings of a football club, and their choice of religion, would matter a jot to their rivals?

The sooner all you clowns get over it, and stop being offended by what the other side does, the sooner you can move into the 21st century.

On here, posters from both sides continually goad and taunt each other, eventually getting the thread closed down. You should be ashamed.

Both sides are guilty. Never mind your sanctimonious bullsh1t in trying to slag me off.

Think about this...how many teams in the world would be upset by the colour of their rivals away jersey, or by a player blessing himself on the pitch?

Incredible!


194

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 16:58:24
Colin

It all started because Rangers fans tried to deflect the blame of the Manchester Disaster onto Celtic.

It's YOUR problem. DEAL WITH IT!

195

Colin P,

18/05/2008 17:00:15
Tim
It goes back WAY before that.

The scum who caused the problems in Manchester should be jailed, the key thrown away.
196

not a rangers/celtic fan,

18/05/2008 17:02:05
Just 1 post on the Rangers embarrassment of Scotland on Wednesday.
Rangers, and particularily Smith, wereharping on about how Rangers success in Europe was great for Scottish football. Not true. For years Rangers, and Celtic but not as brazenly, have been buying the best players from the other SPL teams and then playing them on the bench, or even worse in the reserves. This ended up by giving us such a dearth in talent that the National Team, with that idiot Brown favouring reserve Celtic and Rangers duds to 1st team regulars at other teams, faded into obscurity. Walter Smith and Ally Mccoist brought back a sense of national pride and hunger to the team. Then, unbeleivably Murray went in and poached the national team manager just after one of our greatest victories. This was an absolute disgrace.
Smith then went on to play terrible football on the international stage and scraped through, although the game in lisbon was a highlight. It would have been far better for Scottish football had Smith stayed on and completed his job. On this point alone Rangers have shown that they don't care for Scotland in any way, shape or form. They are a disgrace, and why shoul;d any scottish football fan care what happens to them.
Then the fans go and embarass the nation. I wouldn't have expected anything less from the buckfast brigade. If anyone has been out in Glasgow on a Saturday night you will have noticed an undercurrent of hate and violence. They have no class and showed the world that on Wednesday night. The fact that UEFA have bottled out of disciplining Rangers is not a surprise, they shouldn't even be in Europe due to their disgusting sectarian chants. Rangers and Celtic going to the Premiership is a joke! They wouldn't last 2 minutes, still that may be a good thing.
197

Tim Malloy...,

18/05/2008 17:03:04
Sorry Colin

I meant it all kicked off TODAY because of posts saying "youse yins ur tae blame"

I agree it's been going on for years. Buit you must agree RFC attract the right wing nutters because of their history.

198

Ian Walker,

Montreal Bear 18/05/2008 17:05:12
Boy now all the all the other sanctimonious supporters creep out of the woodwork with all the suggestions that the team should be barred from Europe.
RFC is not and never will be responsible for actions of these anarchists and hoodlums who cause problems away from the stadium,that is the same as blaming them for saturday night fights outside the local pub.
There is only so much any club can do about the bigottoery among the clowns that profess to be good supporters.
And here is a poser for you,which team flies the flag and sings the anthem and songs of one of the worlds worst terrorist groups,and yes they are from Glasgow!!Think about that one.
So all you bloody experts should sit back relax and stop spouting all your baloney about how you cure an endemic problem to football, not just in Scotland but around the world.
Oh that reminds me,you never watch games from other countries do you!!!
199

Colin P,

18/05/2008 17:10:43
Tim
Yes, I agree.
Do you not agree that the hatred is perpetuated by one side using Britishness (far more than 92 clubs by the way, that's JUST in England) and the other using Irishness as an excuse to taunt each other?

Personal experience tells me that both sides of the Old Firm attract a certain undesirable element.
I refuse to get into that. It was a very unpleasant experience and I try to forget it.

The banter on here is the best. The bigotry or preaching from either side needs to be shut down.
200

Colin P,

18/05/2008 17:12:32
By the way Tim, your post at 27 was excellent. I agree with all your points.

But, you regressed with some of your later posts.
201

not a rangers/celtic fan,

18/05/2008 17:42:44
198.
Rangers aren't responsible for the sectarian chanting in Ibrox!? Yes they are. That is the reason they should never have been in Europe. They are an embarassment to scotland.
202

,

18/05/2008 18:20:50
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203

,

18/05/2008 18:33:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
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204

ICF#1,

WORLDWIDE 18/05/2008 18:43:01
Malloy, you sad man.
I guess cfc attract a certain element because of their long-time support for terrorists.
IRA,PLO etc.

Rangers cannot be held liable for the actions of a minority who wear their colours.

It's why UEFA are very wary of attempting to punish Rangers for fans indiscretions.

Simply, it wouldn't stand up in court.

Anyone can put on a Rangers top (or celtic if they're sick) and throw a bottle at the opposition teams bus.
Should the club then be punished?

Of course not. RFC did everything they could to distribute the tickets they were given to real Rangers fans.
I'll bet not one of those fans were arrested.
Therefore what happened in Manchester was NOT the fault of RFC.

Anyone who suggests otherwise is an imbecile.
Or a tim.
205

Brian M,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 18:44:44
I would ban Rangers for 5 years minimum as that is the only means of trying to get sense into their 'minority' of fans.
206

ICF#1,

18/05/2008 18:46:14
#205 See #204 you trumpet.
207

not a rangers/celtic fan,

18/05/2008 18:50:15
206. Why are you naming yourself after a football hooligan firm. Were you down in Manchester making an idiot of yourself, your club and your country. You are clearly the "trumpet"
208

Kirrie Tim,

18/05/2008 18:51:33
204
ICF#1

Well, well look who it is.

Lets play bait the half wit.

You're it!
209

Kirrie Tim,

18/05/2008 18:57:33
203
107-in-a-row,

You've a helluva mouth on ya.

I dont hear many solutions from it though.

So what is the answer for Rangers and their problems? I and any other right minded folks would like a solution.

The floor is yours.
210

gr8fulcelt,

Paradise Island 18/05/2008 18:58:30
Even if none of the loutish hooliganism had occurred last Wednesday, there is no way that Rangers performances in Europe this season brought any credit or pride to Scottish football. Starved for success recently, it's understandable that most of their fans happily accept the "win at any cost" philosophy. But any neutral watching their play would have beeen on suicide watch the urge to slit one's wrists was so strong. Football won on Wednesday and Zenit were only a "decent" team. What odds would you get on Zenit winning the CL next season? Very long odds I think. Celtic lost by the narrowest margin to a Porto side that was reaching its zenith as it proved the following season.
211

Kirrie Tim,

18/05/2008 19:01:14
I know I'm a Celtic supporter an all but I have great sympathy for this guy.

He gets it.

http://tinyurl.com/5eb3pe
212

andy2103,

perth 18/05/2008 19:07:37
Why do Rangers FC and their fans persist with this deflection of blame response to criticism?

It wasn't the fault of the police, the screens not working, the alcohol, the Pope, the weather, it's the people!

"There were only 42 arrests," yes true but it's hard to arrest people when you're on the deck getting your head kicked-in.

Murray, Bain and co. know they have a serious problem in their midst and ignoring it isn't going to make it go away. 'It wisnae us' responses don't wash in the age of You Tube.

213

ICF#1,

18/05/2008 19:28:19
Rangers only problem is a mediocre squad.

But if a squad containing OAP's like Weir and Dailly, Broadfoot, Adam, McCulloch, Alexander, Boyd, Novo, Cousin etc, can get to the UEFA cup final and nearly do a quadruple, then every other team in Scotland is in trouble.

Walter is a genius.

KT, no I think you're it.....
214

Kirrie Tim,

18/05/2008 19:33:11
213
ICF#1

Rubbish response as anticipated.

Rangers most urgent problem is you and your ilk.

You contribute nothing.
215

Kirrie Tim,

18/05/2008 19:50:16
213
ICF#1

Where have you gone half wit? Somewhere you're not so transparent with your stupid name and stupid comments.

Perhaps a medal is in order for your services to stupidity. You're a stalwart.
216

Brian M,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 19:55:50
Rangers FC should not be allowed to hide behind their claim that it was a 'minority' (of a few thousand going by the many photos and video coverage over 6 hours!) and not real Rangers fans.

Rangers positively encouraged the many thousands of ticketless supporters to travel to Manchester.

Rangers FC should pay the price of a ban from Europe for many years until they can get their 'minority' of supporters to behave outside of Ibrox park
217

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 20:30:51
Incidentally I seem to recall Alex Salmond suggesting that they open up Old Trafford for a beam-back.
This site was full of rangers fans telling him to 'butt out' or 'mind his own business' etc.

In hindsight, if that had happened we might have avoided a lot of the trouble that ensued.
218

Armo,

18/05/2008 20:33:24
What were the ragz all about down in Manchester?

Smashing and a bashing their way through the place.

Have they no shame?
219

Armo,

18/05/2008 20:34:57
Those ragz fans are mental aren't they?

Looting and a freebooting their way through the second city of the empire.

What was that all about?
220

Armo,

18/05/2008 20:37:22
Ragz fans just a wee quicky before I pop off.

Next time you see a cop don't kick him...he ain't a football don't you know.

Next time you are in a shop by all means make a purchase but don't smash the window and fill your pockets.

Two definite no-no's for you.

221

lilywhite,

borders 18/05/2008 20:42:54
whats the chances of the old firm getting in the premiership in the next 20 years now I reckon about a million to one.

If the SFA have one ounce of decency they will insist that Rangers Fully compensate the people of manchester for the cleanup etc(how much did RFC make from extra shirt sales due to this game)

They should also withdraw Rangers from next seasons champions league ,as is their right,and ban their supporters from travelling to away european ties indefinatley.
The last two measures may be harsh on the decent supporters and the club itself but it would send out a message that Scotland will not tolerate this kind of behaviour
222

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 20:45:37
Noone outside Ibrox is buying this 'minority' of fans business.
The copper that was almost killed estimated that there were 2,000 rioters involved.

When you have mass disorder with violence and looting, you have a huge problem and it doesn't really matter exactly how many were involved.

Tom English seems to think that UEFA won't lift a finger, and if he is right, I think that's shameful ...to think they got their knickers in an almighty twist over that numpty coming onto the park during the Milan game but will avert their eyes from what happened in Manchester leaves UEFA looking quite rediculous.
223

Brother Walfrid,

18/05/2008 20:51:31
Given the choice of reaching the UEFA Final next year or going to the last 16 in the CL, I'd go for the last 16.

It's just a personal preference. I think being in the last 16 of the world's premier club football competition is the absolute business. I always want to be there.
224

lilywhite,

borders 18/05/2008 20:59:13
When Cantonna did his famous kung fu kick at Crystal Palace Man utd did the right thing by immediatley suspending him for the rest of the season . I challenge David Murray to take immediate action by banning ALL rangers fans from following them in Europe next season
225

jerrymanders,

Riot City; move along know, nothing to see. 18/05/2008 22:38:32
Well done Tom English. An article that actually tells it like it was. This is Sunday. The Final was on Wednesday. What happened in between?
226

jerrymanders,

18/05/2008 22:41:39
And exactly who were the Ibrox Faithful fighting with at the beam-back game? 17, or was it 21, arrests?
227

AJ Fife,

18/05/2008 22:55:40
Time for Glasgow Rangers FC to be closed down. The bitter tribal and criminal element have hammered the last nail the Rangers coffin!

Scotland and Glasgow in particular, would become a much safer place overnight!

Close 'em down Mr Salmond!!
228

Boyne Bhoy,

18/05/2008 23:06:15
#225: Higher number of arrests at Ibrox when Tic fans not there-maybe we should be given MORE tickets next Rangers-Celtic match-Agents of Civilisation!

It's funny to see posters above claiming denomination of Directors is irrelevant given the repeated questions of why Big Jock was not co-opted to CFC Board (private company) but when pressed about Dignity FC it becomes a spurious question-can someone enlighten me?
229

irenecu,

Kirkcaldy 18/05/2008 23:10:52
During my School days in Edinburgh,there were about 5 or 6 Rangers supporters in my year.Most of the pupils were Hearts or Hibs fans, but the thing that became apparent to me was that the Rangers supporters were somewhat more intellectually challenged,with a bit of a chip on their shoulder and an inferiority complex.I guess because Rangers promote bigotry and because they were top of the league,they were an obvious choice for them, because it gave their aggression an outlet by having somebody to hate, and a compensation for their own inadequacies by supporting a team that was top of the league. In the years that have passed since then,I am still of the same philosophy.
230

irenecu,

18/05/2008 23:30:19
Further credence is added to this viewpoint by the fact that many of them support the English National team, and sing the songs that England supporters sing, This is because they want to follow the most successful team that they can get feasibly get away with supporting.
Why don't they just support Brazil.
231

Cabbage Heid,

18/05/2008 23:50:23
Tom English is out of order here IMO -
"Closer to home, Russell Latapy was targeted by Hibs fans last September."

This gives the impression that the whole Hibs support was chanting racist insults at Latapy - nothing could be further from the truth! The "Hibs fans" refered to were in fact 4 (FOUR!) idiots in the corporate area away at Falkirk who had evidently been served more alchohol than they could handle. If they had been in with the normal Hibs fans they would have been shouted down!
The Hibs support have in actual fact recently given Latapy a standing ovation as he left the field in a Falkirk strip at ER. He is regarded as a legend by most Hibs fans and English does a disservice to Hibs supporters everywhere by giving the impression that we are a bunch of ignorant racists because it suits the tone of his article - shame on you English! For what it's worth I agree with the overall drive of your article but you do yourself no favours and reduce it's weight by wrongly tarnishing the name of a whole support by inuendo.
232

redbraes exile,

Sunbury Vic.OZ 19/05/2008 06:39:22
Guid article Cabbage Heid. As a Hiby too I felt let doon by wee Russel when he left tae go the Gers in 2001 and left us a bit shy on skill for the cup final against the Tic but to abuse him cause of his colour or race only pronounces them as EEJITTS
233

GGTTH#1,

19/05/2008 14:21:43
After reading through 200+ posts of tit for tat nonsense I thought I would drop in my tuppence worth that both members of the old firm are scotlands disgrace. For as long as I can remember their attitudes on and off the park have ruined the Scottish game. Both are riddled to the core with corruption and religious hatred. Both camps are set up to antagonise their rivals and everything surrounding the club is based around this. Manchester was almost unavoidable in terms of preventing trouble, everyone knows that members of the rangers support who are no doubt already banned from travelling abroad are affiliated to english hooligan groups. It was almost inevitable that this would happen. On the other hand though Celtic fans who behaved so well in Seville were carefully vetted by police and club, anyone with any sort of history of violence was not permitted to travel. Do not kid yourself that if Celtic had been there anything would have been different. All the bammers would have gone and no doubt the scenes would have been the same.

Bottom line is that you may claim to be the best supported clubs in the world but for every 1 fan there are 10 that hate everything about your vile and bigoted existence. BOTH OF YOU = SCUM!!
234

M8 Traveller,

Edinburgh 19/05/2008 16:46:57
#9 Clach - You are quite right but the problem isn't Glesca's. The dumbies who follow both members of the Auld Firm from towns and cities outside Glesca are much worse. These eejits latch onto a successful (in Scottish terms) football club because it helps them to make up for the inadequacies in their lives. In short it makes them feel big and important. If these clubs were winning nothing they would latch onto the successful replacements.
As for Rangers, UEFA should ban them for at least 5 years in order to send out the proper message that thuggery and violence will not be tolerated.
235

,

19/05/2008 22:55:00
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