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MacAskill in firing line over escape by inmate

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Published Date: 24 May 2009
JUSTICE secretary Kenny MacAskill was last night facing fresh questions over the "perverse and dangerous" decision that led to a convicted armed robber escaping from an open prison.
Opposition parties weighed into MacAskill as Brian "The Hawk" Martin remained at large after absconding from Castle Huntly prison last week.

The escape of Martin, once dubbed Britain's most dangerous man, has led to vociferous criticism of MacAsk
ill, who is being targeted as a weak link in Alex Salmond's Cabinet. But last night his future looked safe as the threat of a parliamentary vote of no confidence receded.

"Alex Salmond will not be dictated to by the opposition," an SNP spokesman said last night. "The First Minister has the utmost confidence in the justice secretary."

But last night it emerged that Labour justice spokesman Richard Baker is tabling a number of parliamentary questions over the decision to transfer Martin to Castle Huntly, near Dundee, three years into his ten-year sentence for firearms offences. Martin, 51, disappeared on Monday after spending less than a month in the low-security prison.

Baker said: "Given the known nature of prisoner Martin, we need to establish how and when it was decided that Martin was fit to be introduced to an open prison environment. Also, we need to find out who authorised the move and if advice on the matter was given to Kenny MacAskill or other ministers."

Baker made his attack two days after Labour leader Iain Gray raised the issue at First Minister's Questions.

MacAskill's plans to replace six-month prison terms with community sentences have angered Labour and the Tories.

Tory justice spokesman Bill Aitken said today: "Kenny MacAskill's primary duty is to protect the public and make Scotland's streets safer. He is failing miserably in that task."

A spokesman for MacAskill said: "The priority is apprehending Brian Martin.

"No-one disputes that in any system there will be failures of assessment, as has happened here, and there will be an investigation."



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 May 2009 10:01 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Scottish prisons
 
1

,

24/05/2009 00:07:23
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2

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/05/2009 00:21:05
What an anti-SNP non-story this is.

It was, perhaps, worthy of comment some 2 days ago when there was a suggestion of a vote of No-confidence in the Justice Minister, but not now.

An inquiry will take place and, hopefully, the problem will be sorted as problems, inherited by the SNP Government, have already been: 80% reduction in abscondees since the last year of the NuLab/LD administration.

The Holyrood opposition's penchant for smear is an affront to the intelligence of the people of Scotland, and this is proven by their continuous threat of No-confidence motions which are never carried through.
3

Rasco,

24/05/2009 00:21:05
Read the article in the times about this in yesterdays Times by Loraine Davidson it seems all the opposition leaders don't have the guts to call a vote of no confidence,seems to be the case of I'll back you if you do it oh no I'll back you if you do it,Grey,Tavish,Goldie the three stogies I don't think they would like an election at the moment.I do agree it is a disgrace about a prisoner escaping but who authorized his transfer to the open prison.
4

subrosa,

24/05/2009 00:25:14
Decreased Observer? They're now only 5% of what the labour/libdem lot had as abscondees.

Observer you're too much in the real world to work for the Scotsman.
5

,

24/05/2009 00:30:38
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6

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 00:56:02
Kenny seems to have a dossier on Alex.Whats so dirty that makes a First Minister cow tow to one of his own Ministers ?
7

Iainbroch,

24/05/2009 00:58:20
The headline should read " Lieboar and Fib Dums choke Loos at Holyrood"

Cluck! Cluck! Cluck!
8

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 01:08:52
"Alex Salmond will not be dictated to by the opposition,"

And neither he should. Especially when it is blatantly obvious that the opposition's demands are only to serve their own partisan interests and have nothing whatever to do with the safety and welfare of Scotland's people.
9

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 01:14:11
8

"Alex Salmond will not be dictated to by the opposition,"

No, just by his Justice Minister !
10

Iainbroch,

24/05/2009 01:15:52
re 1

I think you blew your chances of this cushy number by not towing a Lieboar Party line in thse forums!
You could always change your moniker and practice the slow bleat whilst your at it! Oh and practice foaming at the mouth at the mention of Salmonds name and throwing fits at the mention of the folowing consonants - SNP!
11

Bevin Boyce,

24/05/2009 01:16:49
#1,

I strongly recommend the Oasis soup at Larg's finest restaurant and ice cream emporium.

You get a roll with it.
12

Colkitto,

River Clyde 24/05/2009 01:18:01
Quite an attack on Labour from former Chairman Bob Thomson.


Not often I'll praise a unionist, but that man speaks the truth, Well Done ! Take note Scotsman/Scotland on Sunday


Article in the Scottish Sunday Express
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/vi...er-Labour-chairman-turns-on-party

Quotes

SCOTTISH Labour MSPs are “incompetent nonentities” who “trot out the same non-policies” as their London colleagues, according to one of the party’s own former chairmen.


Bob Thomson also said Labour has “no friends, no big ideas, no independence, no leaders and no idea how bad its situation really is”.


"this year’s party conference in Dundee was marked by the “hypocrisy” of Labour MSPs and so poorly attended it could have been held in a side hall."

“Iain Gray has lived off Westminster patronage since he lost his seat in 2003 and the signs are he is paying it back with New Labour nonentities like Rhona Brankin and Richard Baker trotting out a London-friendly line.”

"Labour MPs inhabit an “alternative universe”

“They keep believing they can win by throwing mud at others, but they don’t know it isn’t working and they won’t admit they are a poor opposition for it.”
13

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 01:18:36
9
ultravires

"No, just by his Justice Minister !"

You seem to have convinced yourself. I don't think anyone else is falling for it.
14

Brianwci,

24/05/2009 01:23:16
Open prisons are an integral part of the UK prison service's rehabilitation regime. The system is backed by all parties, so no problem there.

It does seem strange that Martin was sent to Huntly so early in his sentence but I can't believe that Justice Ministers are asked to approve each and every transfer and if they are they can only act on recommendations.

To blame MacAskill for this or any other individual abscond is ridiculous. If it were happening every week and he made no attempt to tackle the system of selection then it would be fair to criticise but this is just unionist anti SNP propaganda.
15

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 01:27:34
13

Thats because most of you are here at the SNP's behest to defend their 'honour'. Thankfully we don't need to read your silliness in the print editions.

Come to think of it, what type of people these days defend politicians ?

How much are you all getting from the SNP expenses chitty for keeping MacAskill's end up, or is it BJs in a dark street ?

Nighty night.
16

Brianwci,

24/05/2009 01:27:53
#12 Colkitto: Article in the Scottish Sunday Express
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/vi...er-Labour-chairman-turns-on-party

Thanks for this Colkitto. It shows that the nationalist wing of the Labour Party in Scotland is beginning to assert itself with an eye to a far more independent Scottish Labour Party after London Labour crashes and burns at the next General Election.
17

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 01:30:44
15
ultravires

"Thats because most of you are here at the SNP's behest..."

Oh no! Not another conspiracy theorist!
18

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 01:33:40
17

Oh no, not another mock Tartan Taleban !
19

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 01:35:51
18
ultravires

Tartan Taleban!? Who the hell thought that one up for you. I didn't realise the unionist lackeys were so desperate.
20

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 01:37:09
16
Brianwci

"It shows that the nationalist wing of the Labour Party in Scotland is beginning to assert itself..."

We've been there before. And it's never amounted to very much.
21

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 01:38:26
20

I didn't realise the SNP lackeys were so desperate to pin their hopes and the responsibility of Government in Scotland on one little old Macdrunkfast.

BJ BJ BJ ?
22

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 01:38:42
18 You know you really need to put up or shut up.

What are you alluding to ?
23

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 01:39:40
21 - do tell.

24

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 01:45:08
21
ultravires

Macdrunkfast!? Is that from the same author as the "Tartan Taleban" silliness? With just a little more effort you could reach the same puerile depths as your masters in the Labour/Tory alliance.

25

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 01:45:29
22 & 23

Its the SNP who need to put up or shut up on the future of Scotland.

Alex (on orders from Macpantsfast) : "Touch my Justice Minister's pants and we all resign, go in the huff and cost the country an election"

SNP lackeys then turn up all over the newspapers to show the party flag but who listens to anyone who defends politicians now we know they are all crooks

26

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 01:47:14
24

Keep wearing your SNP tin foil hat and red & black armband and keep defending politicians.The rest of us now know the motives of people who defend politicians.Money and perks.Enjoy your perks and remember to wipe.
27

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 01:49:36
25
ultravires

Macpantsfast!? Have you got a six-year old writing your pathetic unionist propaganda?
28

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 01:51:10
26
ultravires

Don't tell me you've run out of infantile names! It was all you had!
29

,

24/05/2009 01:53:05
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30

Iainbroch,

24/05/2009 01:54:04
re 21

Are you sure you have the right Sunday here? Is the NOTS offline by any chance?
31

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 01:55:08
25 Politicians are not all crooks. That is a hysterical over-reaction to the Torygraph's antics. Some of them are crooks. This article relates to Kenny McCaskill. I assime with a moniker like ultravires you have an interest in justice. So do I. I happen to think Kenny McCaskill is doing very well - you apparently do not.

Why ?
32

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 01:56:11
30

No it goes on in the SNP too I am reliably informed.They just use Macwipefast kitchen towel to wipe faster.
33

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 01:56:27
29
ultravires

"Get that four year old off your screen before the polis turn up to can yer rant."

There you go! That's the kind of despicable filth we have come to expect from the unionists' amateur propagandists.
34

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 01:58:05
32
ultravires

"No it goes on in the SNP too I am reliably informed.They just use Macwipefast kitchen towel to wipe faster."

I don't know what you're on. But I hope it isn't widely available.
35

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 02:00:27
31 MacJusticefast doing very well at what ?

Doing well at Justice ? You must be joking ! Cant wait 2 seconds to ditch Megrahi,makes local councils pay for Police training on the sly,takes over outside agencies and re-writes their press releases with an SNP political slant and has to cancel all his 'reforms' because they aren't reforms.

How is any of this different from the rest ?

Sure, politicians are all crooks.Don't tell me you are another defender of the expenses plundering faith ?
36

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 02:02:40
33 & 34

You seem all red faced & clotted. Now now, after all its well known some of the Mackeyboardnats (or nuts) like a little bit of illegal online viewing.
37

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 02:04:44
36
ultravires

Mackeyboardnats!? You're a bit of a one-trick pony, aren't you?
38

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 02:07:06
31
Observer

"That is a hysterical over-reaction to the Torygraph's antics."

Plenty of that going around. Although ultravires does appear to be a particularly tragic case.
39

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 02:09:31
35 Who is talking about expenses ? You are all over the place.

Do you need a lie down or what ?
40

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 02:13:01
38 Yes EH - I am getting more and more peed off with the Torygraph's drip drip drip release of what is stolen information - and the general damage that they are doing to the body politic. Not every MP is guilty, not at all, but the way this has been portrayed you would think there wasn't an honest politician the length and breadth of the land.
41

Iainbroch,

24/05/2009 02:14:21
re 37

Aye well! She/He seems to be a little obsessed with one position in particular! A position where you might well get acquainted with nuts? The knees must be a little chaffed tonight - could explain the gagging?
42

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 02:16:07
35
ultravires

"Sure, politicians are all crooks."

They are not, of course. But I can see why such a simplism would appeal to the intellectually challenged.
43

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 02:20:33
40
Observer

"...the general damage that they are doing to the body politic."

With you on that. Exposing abuse is one thing. But this is beginning to look more and more like a campaign to seriously undermine the entire democratic process.
44

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 02:23:15
If the unionists thought their attacks on Kenny MacAskill were going to distract from the expenses scandal, looks like they got that wrong too.
45

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 02:36:49
43 It's a campaign to usher in Cameron's new Govt. And of course it allows Cameron - who has as many qualifications for being PM as my dog - to dispatch Tory grandees who might, when they are not cleaning the moat or checking the ducks, actually know how things are supposed to work.

It's a ridiculous notion to suppose that this expenses scandal is the worst that Parliament has seen in centuries. Christ - have we all forgotten the lies in the House over Iraq ? I think the word perspective is seriously relevant.



46

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 02:47:50
45
Observer

"It's a campaign to usher in Cameron's new Govt."

Perhaps. But a Conservative victory in the next UK general election was all but certain anyway. The way the expenses scandal is being orchestrated smacks more of anti-parliamentarism than a party political campaign.
47

W Smith,

Middle East 24/05/2009 03:39:27
From behind a human shield of police protection, Mr Salmond insists that MacAskill is doing a great job.

Nice one.
48

W Smith,

Middle East 24/05/2009 03:41:30
BTW
The SNPs Gordon Wilson had Salmond and MacAskill sussed 25 years ago.

Its taken the rest of us this long to understand what was Wilson was getting at.
49

Anonym,

my posts make as much sense as yours 24/05/2009 03:58:06
"From behind a human shield of police protection"

Plenty more where they came from :)
50

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 04:04:46
#48, W Smith

Please tell us what Gordon Wilson was getting at? The SNP under Gordon Wilson was a party with no real direction. Alex Salmond, Kenny MacAskill and others have given the SNP the character it enjoys today. Alex Salmond is the best Scottish politician of his generation. And as for Kenny MacAskill...he is doing extremely well as far as I can see...unionists want blood though and having failed to achieve anything with their pathetic attacks on Fiona Hyslop and Nicola Sturgeon they're moving on to Kenny MacAskill. It's a flawed tactic to try and gang up on cabinet ministers and pick them off one by one. If the tactic succeeds then Labour will reap the reward at the next Scottish election. The SNP, as far as I can see, look set to be the governing party for the next six years. Sometime this year the Labour party will slip into opposition. I suspect we'll see Iain Gray go before any SNP ministers.
51

,

24/05/2009 06:48:36
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52

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 24/05/2009 07:17:20
ultravires,Edinburgh 24/05/2009 06:48:36
makes up words:-

"loonycrats"
"Macmouthfast"
"Macknifefast"
"Macfailurefast"

Try using proper words. If this is your pathetic attempt at humour then you really are a sad useless article.

The rest of your words are just incoherent nonsense.

My guess is - you are one of these useless labour MSPs.

53

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 24/05/2009 07:20:23
ultravires,Edinburgh 24/05/2009 06:48:36

Perhaps you are the one that makes up the labour party's election manifesto.
54

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 24/05/2009 07:23:20
ultravires,Edinburgh 24/05/2009 06:48:36

Do you write Gordon Brown's speeches?
55

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 07:38:11
52 53 & 54

Did you take over the early morning shift from the other snp loonycrats or are you just another one of their guises? Did Electric armband have to go to sleep after watching too much of the too terrible to mention variety online ?

Pity you cant actually answer the issues of Macbackstabberfact's attack on his own party to get the leadership for his own grubby mits.

Is he worth resigning over ? No

Will Alex resign over Macresighfast ? Yes he will have to or Macvotefast will go away in the huff and not vote through important legislation paid for by snp party donors.

Keep defending politicians - we all know why you do it (money) no matter who you are and what party you defend.
56

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 24/05/2009 07:45:03
ultravires,Edinburgh 24/05/2009 07:38:11

Perhaps a journalist with "The Scotsman"?

57

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 08:02:19
56

Perhaps an SNP lackey with Macparty's office ?

Hows life in good old SA these days ? Still living with high walls & fears of the locals pouring over after realising what you all did to them ?

Almost the same way snp politicians live here in sunny Scotland.Lets hope the locals also tumble to the fact you should be called the Scottish Money party.

Still keeping the donors chuffed are we?
58

The Creature from the Black Lagoon,

24/05/2009 08:13:54
It is a shame Carlsberg don't do Justice Secretaries. . . . . . . .
59

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 08:16:48
#57 ultra vires

It would appear that producing a constructive, coherent and even remotely interesting comment is certainly “beyond your powers”.
60

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 08:17:00
ultravirus,

So what was your previous moniker???

Same pathetic drivel while everyone else watches with delight as New Labour Sleaze and Corruption disintegrate!

Superb viewing it is too!!!


Bring it on!!!
61

,

24/05/2009 08:22:10
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62

,

24/05/2009 08:24:22
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63

,

24/05/2009 08:27:20
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64

,

24/05/2009 08:28:32
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65

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 08:31:01
I see from the Independent on Sunday, things are getting even worse for Our Dear Leader, Comrade Broon.
It appears he's asking advice from His Holiness Comrade Blair!!!!

"Gordon Brown has called Tony Blair into Downing Street as he desperately tries to rescue his leadership from a series of crises. The meeting on Thursday lasted more than an hour, coming amid the continuing outcry over MPs' expenses and warnings from ministers that Labour faces its worst performance in decades at next month's local and European elections.

There was also continued speculation that Mr Brown could face a challenge to his leadership in the wake of the double poll on 4 June.

The timing of the meeting, with Mr Brown's future in doubt, triggered talk in Westminster that the premier was asking Mr Blair for help. Sources said that they did not discuss election timing or strategy, but the conversation did cover domestic politics. The day after the talks, it emerged that Mr Brown will launch a "national plan for Britain" as part of his fightback."
66

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 08:32:24
58

They do .. McBUCKfast

59,60,61,62, you look like you have a case of schizophrenia with all those monikers, protesting McKnickersfast honour.

Poor old snp lackeys tarnish the Black Douglas in the name of supporting snp members on the mortgage bandwagon.

The snp's latest slogan : "You support us everyone.We are Scottish. We want your money to pay our way and our mortgages and property deals not put on the register of interests but sod off after you elect us!"

Hows Human Shield Alex doing today ? You would all be lost without him thats for sure!
67

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 08:37:03
63

Ehrm, no, I think you'll find that your wee rant applies almost exactly to the NuLiebore Sleaze and Corruption Party, (North Britishshire Branch), who have been spouting socilaist equality for decades while lining their own pockets and living the good life while Scotland withered on the branch.

Christine Grahame claims £26,000 for postage stamps & envelopes and thats all you can come up with ?

I see plenty other SNP msps and ministers are paying their mortgages on us and making up to £90,000 profit from playing the property game.

Hey can we all claim from Parliament to pay our mortgage even after earning £70,000 a year ?

Keep on defending politicians.We know why you do it. Money.
68

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 08:38:48
Looks like Jim Devine, of The Connarty Devine Furniture Trading Company, is sinking firmly into the smelly stuff!

This particular smelly stuff will be getting examined by the Polis!!!

From The Herald,

"ONLY A couple of tube stations from Westminster, the apartment blocks on Southwark Bridge Road, central London, seem an ideal home for MPs.

The mile-long stretch between the Thames and South Bank University is also the location for numerous companies of varying sizes.

One such enterprise appears to be Eastern Electrical Ltd, a firm whose name is printed on an invoice submitted as part of Scottish Labour MP Jim Devine's second home claims.


The £2157 repairs bill was dated June 2007 and paid by the Westminster Fees Office a month later, according to Devine's end-of-year allowances statement.

However, a Sunday Herald investigation can reveal that there are serious doubts over whether Eastern Electrical Ltd has ever existed."


NEW LABOUR SLEAZE - WE DO WORKING CLASS FRAUD!!!
69

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 08:44:27
#68,

Here's the link to The Herald story.

http://tinyurl.com/p3b4k5
70

,

24/05/2009 08:46:32
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71

,

24/05/2009 08:47:36
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72

,

24/05/2009 08:51:07
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73

Pilrig,

Livingston 24/05/2009 08:51:28
71 - "bnp win seats in Scotland" - best laugh of the day !
What next ? Susan Boyle to win Miss World ? !
74

Pilrig,

Livingston 24/05/2009 08:54:14
57 - Scottish Money Party ? Mebbe working class heroes Connarty & Davidson can join it ?
75

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/05/2009 09:03:14
Ultra Vires ha "White Suit Man" writ large on his Pinocchioid nose.
76

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 09:48:41
77

You want the Scotsman to publish a picture of the escaped Justice Minister ?

Sour Alba.Your snp chip on your shoulder keeps you awake to all hours.I hope you are getting well paid for it.

How much is the running total now on SNP ministers claiming mortgage allowances and everything else ? Millions I hear.

You seem pretty desperate to conceal those facts.
77

buzzer,

Aberdeen 24/05/2009 09:53:33
68# Looks like Jim Devine, of The Connarty Devine Furniture Trading Company, is sinking firmly into the smelly stuff!
Fantasic Mr Le Pie what a brilliant line.

This story has benn running for three days now and i will repeat for the third time.
As a social worker on ther 'coal face' i work in rehabilitating offenders.
Fact; more money has been put in to tackle reoffending
Fact; Kenny MacAskill recognises that alcohol and social deprivation have to be addressed. Something Cathy Jamieson either did not have the brains ,bottle or willingness to tacckle.
Fact; Our client group learn more in prison and can obtain a life better than many experience outside of prison. We are finally addressing this
Fact; I work with what is termed high risk offenders those that can make every one of our lives a misery and now have the time and resources to rehabilitate.
Richard Baker should have some work experience in criminal justice before he spouts his vaccuos claims and then maybe, maybe he might not be so mouthy.
78

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 09:56:41
78 danielrober

The introduction of ID cards is entirely irrelevant to the potential abuse of the postal vote system.

By the very nature of this system, postal voters are not required to turn up in person at the polling station to cast their vote, therefore having a photo-id card is hardly of any importance.

Each postal vote form currently includes an electoral registration number which is used to identify the valid credentials of the voter.

There is no current way to check whether or not any particular “voter”, whether postal or in-person, is actually deceased or has moved away and is registered elsewhere.

79

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 10:02:23
79 Your obsession with accommodation allowances (which affects a cross party group of MSP's) would perhaps be more appropriately expressed on a thread about expenses eh ? It doesn't really have much to do with the article you are commenting on.
80

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 10:09:40
79 Viralherpes,

You really are a sad deluded halfwit if you think you can swerve attention from the corrupt and rotten New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party with your wild ramblings.

Many have tried and failed miserably ie. Rufus, Smee, Highland Mighty, British Pride, Paddy O'Poison to name but a few.

Roll on election day and then the people will decide!!
81

Pilrig,

Livingston 24/05/2009 10:13:27
bnp win seats in Scotland. Jesus, there's mair chance Falkirk winning the Europa Cup next season.

ID cards. Along with the magic database it works of - so oor political and polis masters can keep tabs on the common herd. They don't trust Joe Public.
82

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 10:13:33
82

Yes it does.The snp lackeys here are supporting a duff Justice Minister and Kim Ill Salmond's dictates to the rest of us the Government will resign if Macdufffast is dare questioned on his right to be in office.

Expenses comes right to the heart of it.

Earning £70,000 a year and getting us to pay their mortgages off as well as £26,000 on Christine Grahame's stamps collection or Ministers taking £900 a month & more to pay their mortgage off and not one snp lackey willing to admit they are milking the system just like everyone else means its a legitimate point.

Labour,SNP,Tory, LibDem, all no different from each other.Crooks the lot of them.
83

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 10:17:32
84 Jimmy le fedopile

You really are a sad deluded halfwit if you think you can swerve attention from the corrupt and rotten snp with your wild ramblings on the nats lack of sins.

Are you going to claim it was really Kim Ill Salmond who hosted the Last Supper next ?

Hey thats another thing, remember the nazis ? Many of their supporters always used to say Hitler was a saint, and many even wanted to have nookie with him out of admiration. Are you one of those kind by chance ?

84

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 10:20:03
85
ultravires

"Expenses comes right to the heart of it."

Listen to Observer's advice and you might have slightly less tendency to make an utter fool of yourself. The topic here is Kenny MacAskill, the fine job he is doing as justice secretary and the desperate but futile efforts of the unionist clique to score some kind of point against our government.
85

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 10:21:41
85 You really have got it bad haven't you ? Kim Ill Salmond - get away, you're making a mockery of people who really do live under the dictatorship of a mad man.

I suggest you go away and search for your sense of balance and perspective. You seem to have lost it and as a result are coming across as a hysterical looney.
86

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 10:29:59
Electric Hermit and something-watching Observer are awake again. Do you lot never sleep ?

MacAskill has never done a fine job. Look what fine words he used & still does to describe his own party colleagues in various leadership contests.If you were really inside the snp you would know all about that, but as adorning fans in the Salmond Shirts gang, you just cant see past your red white & black armbands.

Whats this about making a mockery of people who live under Kim Ill Salmond and Perky MacDong Fast ?
87

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 10:32:07
86 ultravires,

If you have nothing of interest to say, it would be better if you said nothing.

Or are you one of those couple of BNP fascists who crop up on these threads now and again?
88

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 11:02:40
90

I haven't seen one interesting point made by an snp lackey on this forum yet but the good thing is all their rants are not in the print edition,which the majority of people sit down to read rather than pouring over the dribbles of the snp admirers.

Maybe the Scotsman should do as the Herald did and take comments away from the stories completely so we can all sit down and read the news without Kim Ill Salmond and MacIneedadrinkfast's fans spilling in to spoil the day.

It would be good for the snp lackeys too.They could get finally get some sleep, or get back to their favourite hobby, online viewing of the illegal variety.
89

Number 6,

Germany 24/05/2009 11:20:02
Pathetic, as if those wretches at Holyrood would have dared forced an election. The SNP have swatted away this "threat" to the Justice Minister's position, like they would a fly.

A Clueless and weak oppositon, remains the SNP's biggest asset.
90

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 11:20:02
89
ultravires

"Electric Hermit and something-watching Observer are awake again. Do you lot never sleep ?"

If we are "awake again" then we must have been asleep. Do you ever read the drivel you write? Or is it too painfully embarrassing?
91

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 11:31:51
#92 ultraherpes,

Excellent idea.

The New Labour Sleaze and Corruption solution to criticism - shut down all comments forums.
Then we'll only find out what our 'betters' decide we should know!!

Which would have been nothing about the fraud, cheating, deceit and down right lying from our rulers!!



New Labour Sleaze and Corruption - Don't do as we do, do as we say!
92

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 11:35:08
93

Hit it right on the head but beware the rants of Electric Kermit and Obscure .. they will attest to the great prowess of Kim Ill Salmond which rises above the weakness of Scotland's opposition parties.

94 Electric Kermit - so you didn't sleep after all ? I wondered why your drivel was beginning to sound a bit shrill.

I hope there aren't too many track marks on your arms & legs from all those 'keep me awake injections so I can have a fan bang with Macbottlepast on Monday morning' you are taking.
93

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 11:36:14
#92 ultraherpes,

You said, "They could get finally get some sleep, or get back to their favourite hobby, online viewing of the illegal variety."

Would that be the same stuff that Mr Jacqui Smith charged the taxpayer to watch??

Could watching 'illegal stuff' have caused Nigel, our Edinburgh MP to $hag a wh0re in the HoC??



You are an utter buffoon fighting a losing battle, in fact, you've lost!!
94

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 11:38:34
91 danielrober

Having singularly failed to establish any correlation between id cards and the validity or otherwise of postal votes, I note you now move on to the concept of “finger-print” validation.

This is of course as equally spurious as your initial proposal.

This concept implies that every polling clerk in every polling station throughout the country has immediate access to a data-base containing the finger-prints of every registered voter in the land.

Furthermore, how do you imagine that genuine postal voters, who by virtue of some physical infirmity are unable to apply a finger-print to their ballot form, would be able to establish their credentials?

As far as I am aware, no record of my finger-prints currently appear upon any data-base as I have not been convicted of or even of accused of any crime.

Would I therefore be precluded from voting within your system?
95

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 11:39:20
95 Jimmy le fedopile

Yes, and locking up fedopiles should be a priority of any Government.

Oh and how come the SNP stole the motto - Don't do as we do, do as we say ?

If Christine Grahame gets to claim £26,000 for her stamp collection and SNP Ministers get over £900 a month for mortgages can all of us do the same ?

On no .. its don't do as we do, do as we say again !

SNP = Same Nothing Politics !
96

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 11:42:00
#99 ultraherpes,

Lets have an election to decide then??

Or don't New Labour Sleaze do democracy???
97

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 11:42:53
97

Jimmy le fedopile

What ? You mean like married Angus and the twa teenage dugs ? and his expenses claims in London ? or 2 salaries Kim Ill Salmond ?

Check mate
98

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 11:44:57
100

Jimmy le fedopile

Absolutely,and don't forget not to rig the voting papers this time with Kim Ill Salmond's head at the top. They used to do that in Nazi Germany you know - it said "Hitler for Fuhrer or else".

Lets have a list of all politicians expenses claims next to their names in the ballot paper so we can really decide who is worth it.
99

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 11:53:55
103

Good point and it is about time there was a more secure method of voting, as well as a fine if you dont vote.It works in other countries so why not here.
100

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 11:58:07
Oh dear, looks like ultraherpes is foaming at the mouth and probably pi shing himself with rage!!!

Electoral fraud????

Which party is being referred to here??

"He criticised the government's insistence that the current postal voting system was working, adding: "Anybody who has sat through the case I have just tried and listened to evidence of electoral fraud that would disgrace a banana republic would find this statement surprising."


They can't even select a candidate without cheating!!

This from The Times,

"Gould said: “I am obviously very disappointed not to have won. I give my 100% support to Teresa but I will certainly be back in politics.” Suspicions were raised when about a third of the 279 local party membership eligible to vote registered for postal ballots – a far larger proportion than normal.

The hustings had initially been due on April 18 but were postponed after an official at Labour’s London headquarters found that a ballot box containing more than 70 postal votes had been broken into and the voting papers ripped up."


NEW LABOUR SLEAZE - NOBODY CHEATS LIKE US!!
101

,

24/05/2009 12:07:35
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102

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 12:13:33
105
Jimmy Le Pie

"Oh dear, looks like ultraherpes is foaming at the mouth and probably pi shing himself with rage!!!"

It's demented raving has ceased to be amusing. Especially the rather disturbing obsession with young children. I think this particular nutter is best ignored.
103

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 12:16:31
107 Electric,

Aye you're right there.

He's behaviour is typical of the unionist trolls that pollute these boards.

And all the while the SNP go from strength to strength in the polls.
104

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 12:40:39
107 & 108

Talking to yourself ? Mind the schizophrenia ... its beginning to show

Unable to explain your obsession with fan bangs with your snp idols and all the while the snp go from robbing the taxpayer for ever more mortgage payments.

Cant answer the tough questions can you.Did Mcthickfast forget to brief you enough again ?
105

,

24/05/2009 12:46:41
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106

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 13:20:48
89 As I'm not in the SNP I really have no interest in tittle tattle. You seem to be suffering from the effects of sleep deprivation, not I.

You stopped posting vague insults and childish name calling @02.02 and resumed in the same style @ 06.48.

No-one reading your posts has a clue what you are actually on about.
107

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 13:27:03
112

movie intervened, title "I am god,all must obey me or die" starring Kim Ill Salmond.

I could also say the same about your posts.What is it you are so good at observing I wonder ? wife watching ?

You seem to have dropped off at 0236 and came back to the bottle at 10ish or have you been awake all along as Jimmy le fedopile and his many clones ?
108

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 13:36:22
113 Are you deranged ? Politcal rhetoric is one thing but consistently comparing Alex Salmond to the Dear Leader of North Korea is actually ludicrous.

What is behind your incredibly antagonisitic attitude ?
109

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 13:45:56
114

Thats rich coming from an obvious cybernat.

Whats the matter, can't you take what you give to others ?

All those insults towards anyone who isn't SNP, even their families, and now because Kim Ill Salmond is unmasked drawing heat to save his beloved Kilty McDong Fast Justice Minister you get all rancid & clotted ?

What is behind your worshipping attitude to a politician who soaks us for 2 salaries and his colleagues mortgage allowances and stamp collections ?
110

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 13:52:36
115 Is that just a general ''I hate cybernats'' thing ? I don't think in all fairness I go around insulting people or their families, I get on reasonably well with unionists to be honest with you.

However I am still at a loss as to why you are comparing Scotland with North Korea, and why you appear to think that MacAskill should resign over an escaped prisoner.

111

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 14:05:18
Observer,

115 isn't capable of rational thought and debate.

He's only writing what he's told by his masters!

A bit like Comrade Iain Gray at Holyrood!!

Best to ignore the fool.
112

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 14:08:48
116

Really ? You never can tell who is who on this forum.Cybernats recently called for Unionists, their families (presumably including children) and anyone who didn't share SNP ideals in red white & black to be deported (or sent to camps). Is there anything to be admired in such policy ? (I await Jimmy le fedopile coming back on that with a slavering "Yes" from his point of view)

Kim Ill Salmond compared to North Korea.Well lets see now,madman with a bomb in NK.In Scotland cultman with a dangerous cult who claim they represent all Scotland in wanting to bring back concentration camps for anyone who disagrees with them. Shades of Nazi Germany or what ?

Macprisoner fast should resign not only over the poor judgement of placing this convict in a facility many surmised he would escape from, but also for all his other failures on justice.

Yes,Justice McWindbagfast must go,but when he goes prepare for dirty files on Kim Ill Salmond and co to surface in the media.
113

ultravires,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 14:12:08
117

Jimmy le fedopile

Never far away from supporting your own masters I see.I'm glad I have such restrictions placed on my brain.

Jimmy. tell us about the cybernat charged with possession of Child pornography. He was a regular on the Scotsman forum until you lost him and had to make up the numbers. Receiving party funds too it may well be.How disgusting the SNP should have those sorts among their ranks.

What will donor Mr Souter think now ?
114

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 14:15:43
Observer,

See #118 as proof of what I was saying!!!!

The poor fool needs help (Carstairs have the skills!) not pity!!!!

Very reminiscent of Iain Gray's performance on Newsnicht when he defended Red Wendy and was left a gibbering wreck!!
115

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/05/2009 14:16:04
118 ''You never can tell who is who on this forum.''

Quite. You appear to be bonkers. Bye.
116

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/05/2009 15:15:05
ultavires.

I feel sorry for you Sam. Your psychosis is definitely getting worse.

But, fortunately for you, the local cadre of the Greenock BNP will keep you febrile.
117

mr broon,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 15:30:56
I wonder if the Mr Magoo lookalike from the Scots Tory Party has ever run a whelk stall?
118

,

24/05/2009 15:32:03
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119

,

24/05/2009 16:36:35
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120

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/05/2009 17:20:29
I must say I find the unionist arguments are getting increasingly frantic.

I thought Comrade Broon's leadership would have finished New Labour Sleaze, with the expenses fiasco being more of a distraction. Boy how wrong I was and I'm enjoting every minute of it.

Comrade Broon hangs Blears out to dry thinking people would be impressed with his strong leadership - Ha,

Then he lets Purcell and BuffHoon off without a word??
Never mentions Comrade Darlings 4 home tax fraud??

Vote SNP - The ONLY party for ALL the people of Scotland.
121

,

24/05/2009 17:42:03
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122

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 24/05/2009 17:42:30
I suspect that the “ultravires” character has been little more than a Hootsmon plant, used to seed responses to what is essentially a non-story.

On Friday, we were being told of threats of “no confidence votes” which were of course abject nonsense as the Labourites in particular are hardly in a position to fight a general election, given their current poll ratings and the abysmal performance of their current Scottish branch leader.

Therefore there was never any prospect whatsoever of any no confidence vote.

Meanwhile, as the date of the Glasgow North-East by-election appears to be within the gift of the Labourites, despite Martin officially being an “Independent” Speaker, perhaps one of their apologists may explain why this is being delayed?
123

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/05/2009 17:49:40
Baker said: "Given the known nature of prisoner Martin, we need to establish how and when it was decided that Martin was fit to be introduced to an open prison environment. Also, we need to find out who authorised the move and if advice on the matter was given to Kenny MacAskill or other ministers."

I think that is a fair point which requires to be addressed.
124

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/05/2009 18:02:08
To paraphrase the "good time for bad news" leak - blame MacAskill but add:

MacAskill said: "Given the known nature of speaker Martin, we need to establish how and when it was decided that Martin was was fit to be introduced to an open expenses environment. Also, we need to find out who authorised the move and if advice on the matter was given to Blair/Broon or other ministers."
125

Mèths,

24/05/2009 18:10:22
Ultravirus

Eh? Are you totally mad? Up the dosage ffs.
126

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 18:38:10
114
Observer

"Are you deranged ?"

I think that question has been answered.
127

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 18:49:35
129
Jock Tamson

"I think that is a fair point which requires to be addressed."

Vacuous threats of no-confidence motions is not the way to address such matters.
128

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/05/2009 19:06:19
133, Electric Hermit.

I consider that statement to be a fair request for information. Not a vacuous threat of no confidence.

While it is obvious that Labour (Scotland) has no intention of acting in a mature manner as an opposition party, the SNP should continue to act in a mature manner, as the party of government (minority) and address the subject matter in an open and honest way.

There is never a better time to do it. If MacAskill made a mistake then he made a mistake, If he didn't then he didn't.

Either way, it seems that "sorry" is the easiest word to say nowadays.

That aside, I reckon being open to reasonable questioning from the opposition is setting an honourable precedent in a, hopefully, nascent democracy.
129

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 19:17:21
134
Jock Tamson

"I consider that statement to be a fair request for information. Not a vacuous threat of no confidence."

It may well be a "fair request for information". But the vacuous threat of a no-confidence motion happened anyway. You must have heard about it. The Scotsman has been obsessed with this latest bit of unionist foolishness.
130

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/05/2009 19:17:26
I'll put 134 another way.

MacAskill may or not be right or wrong on this but it has eff all to do with a vote of confidence.

The only vote of no confidence was shown by the Gray gang when they didn't have the confidence to vote.


131

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 19:19:42
134
Jock Tamson

"There is never a better time to do it. If MacAskill made a mistake then he made a mistake..."

And if he did, the currently ongoing investigation will doubtless uncover the facts. You seem to want the results of the inquiry before the inquiry has been held.
132

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/05/2009 19:30:42
137, Electric Hermit.

No, you got me wrong. I want to see the facts come out.

I gather that the facts show a decrease in escapees since 2009. So I want to see Gray, and all who sail with him, put down for the small minded politicians that they appear to be.

I want to see the SNP say, "OK, we'll answer your question."
133

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/05/2009 19:33:59
Oh dear. I gather that the facts show a decrease in escapees since 2007.
134

Electric Hermit,

24/05/2009 19:37:22
138
Jock Tamson

"No, you got me wrong. I want to see the facts come out."

I apologise if I have misunderstood. Obviously, it is essential that the "facts come out". But the procedure to ensure that this happens is already in train. So, as you say, the clamour for a no-confidence vote is small-minded politicking of the most petty kind.
135

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/05/2009 19:42:46
Now then, Electric Hermit, about your diction when addressing online plants and viruses......

...... must do better.
136

Iainbroch,

24/05/2009 23:09:20
re127

My Oh My! You really are a glutton for punishment! Pity that Lieboars phobia for Black leather will not fully allow you to express your sado masochistic fetishes!

You really must give up those Keir Hardie House Sticky Bukkake Parties especially as they can no longer put you on the expense account. Getting paid for it is one thing but to do it for free does make you look and sound cheap!

If you do actually have something to say that is verifiable then perhaps you could take it to the Murdoch Lieboar Press. However don’t expect gratitude from your political masters. But then if you did have something, don’t you think that the spooks would have left the details at the Daily Redtard? Is that cream dribbling from your nostrils deary?

Was that a fire extinguisher that someone let off over your head? Oh you fell flat in the face into some Philadelphia cheese! No some melted Mozzarella then? No must be your toothpaste tube exploded then! Everything comes to a sticky end!

You really do need to get off your knees and give up being a Labour Party slave toy for a day or two or more – you might actually like it? You might find yourself becoming a human being again Richard?
137

Brianwci,

24/05/2009 23:27:17
Ultravires, those of who are Nationalists support Scotland and Scottish Independence first and foremost.

We lend the SNP our support because it also puts Scotland first, if it stopped doing that we would support a party which did.

In short ultravires we believe that Independence will mean a better life for all living in Scotland. Why not join us?

138

Electric Hermit,

25/05/2009 00:55:47
143
Brianwci

"In short ultravires we believe that Independence will mean a better life for all living in Scotland. Why not join us?"

Damn! There goes the "better life"!
139

The Tin Man,

25/05/2009 09:49:09
Scottish prison escapes / absconders:

http://www.sps.gov.uk/default.aspx?documentid=7AC1F3BE-BECA-452E-A9C8-07EDF7486A9F


 

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