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Labour frozen out as SNP buries hatchet with Conservatives to end 20-year taboo

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Published Date: 25 November 2007
THE SNP is to pave the way for a historic coalition pact with the Conservatives by scrapping a 20-year old ban barring it from working with the party.
In a move which will be seen as a totemic shift in Scottish politics, the Nationalists will agree this week to allow their elected members to enter government with the party of Margaret Thatcher.

The move is designed primarily to allow SNP councillors to go into coalition with the Tories in several of Scotland's 32 local authorities - potentially freezing out Labour in several councils. But senior party figures last night said it would also apply in practice to negotiations at Holyrood, paving the way for a possible SNP-Tory alliance.

The warming of relations between the SNP and the Conservatives will be further sealed in two weeks' time when First Minister Alex Salmond and Tory leader David Cameron meet for the first time to discuss how they may share power if Cameron wins the next general election.

SNP sources admit they have already effectively entered an informal coalition pact with the Tories at Holyrood, under which they expect the Conservatives to support their budget in return for a series of concessions on tax cuts, police numbers and drugs policy.

The SNP voted in the ban on co-operation during the Thatcher government, declaring that they could never enter any deals with the party of that visited the poll tax on Scotland. It has remained ever since, preventing any form of official pact between the parties.

The change to official SNP policy will be voted on at the party's National Council meeting next week, after being proposed by the party's Association of National Councillors.

SNP councillor Dave Berry said: "This will bring the party's policies into line with the reality of the 21st century. The party's councillors have talked and we want to put it to the party that they be allowed to form coalitions as they see fit."

Senior party figures last night said it would, in effect, also allow the SNP to enter into a formal deal with the Tories at Holyrood if they chose.

An SNP MSP described the Tory brand as having now been "detoxified".

In the short term, the move could lead to several changes in government in councils where the SNP has frozen itself out of power because of its refusal to work with the Tories. They include Dundee, South Ayrshire, West Lothian, Falkirk and Perth and Kinross which could all be run by Tory-SNP administrations once the ban is removed.

The SNP leader on Falkirk Council, David Alexander, said: "This ban was brought in when Margaret Thatcher and John Major were causing havoc to Scotland. But things have changed. Now you could argue that Labour are further to the right than the Tories. We should acknowledge that."

A spokesman for the SNP said: "This policy was devised when council elections were under first-past-the-post, so this motion draws attention to the reality of the new system of single transferable vote. The SNP has the most councillors in Scotland and it is natural to want to form as many administrations across the length and breadth of Scotland as well."

As to whether the change would herald a new SNP-Tory alliance, he added: "We are happy with the SNP minority government. It has been successful and we have no plans to that change."

A spokesman for the Scottish Conservatives said: "It is for the SNP to decide on these issues. At the Scottish Parliament level, we were the party that argued for a minority government and issue-by-issue politics. The position is unchanged regardless of any move by the SNP.

"The voting records show that we have voted exactly the same number of times with Labour as with the SNP.

"The only permanent marriage in the Scottish Parliament is that between Labour and the Liberal Democrats."

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1

Archie MacT,

Edinburgh 25/11/2007 01:06:37

anything to gain power. seems like the whiter than white Nats are just like everyone else. so much for principals

2

,

25/11/2007 01:07:19
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3

druidh,

25/11/2007 01:12:02

Let's see.

When Wendy & Co try to get the Tories on boar to stitch up the Government, that's OK?

But not for the SNP?

Isn't this just reality biting?

4

,

25/11/2007 01:14:17
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5

Petro,

25/11/2007 01:14:35

The trouble is it was Annabel Goldie who trailed round Scotland in April claiming to be the only person who would never ever ever do a deal with the SNP. So that turned out to be one fat lie.

6

Jimbo2,

25/11/2007 01:16:34

"In a move which will be seen as a totemic shift in Scottish politics, the Nationalists will agree this week to allow their elected members to enter government with the party of Margaret Thatcher."

This statement is untrue as no coalition talks have been held by these two parties.

It hasn't happened and if it does it will be the party of Annabelle Goldie, unlike Wendy Alexander, Goldie has autonomy in Scotland. The party of Margaret Thatcher is alive and well and now flourishes under the name of New labour.

If anyone wants to talk of U-turns they need look no further than New labour who are at present in coalition with the Tories in both Holyrood and in local government.

By adopting this tactic the SNP are moving towards better governance for the good of Scotland's people by cutting the throat of the Labour Party's unionist alliance in Holyrood.

7

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 25/11/2007 01:18:52

Vote SNP and get the Tories ? that accounts for some of the 'arranged' meek criticism over the past few weeks on certain law & order policies.

I hoped for change with the SNP, but I remember how damaging the Tories were and have been for Scotland. I am sure others do too.

8

Jimbo2,

25/11/2007 01:22:30

BTW, no mention in SoS today that Wendy's new spin doctor is pro SNP and anti Labour. I wonder why?

9

Guru Gordon,

US 25/11/2007 02:40:11

Unlike AM2, the SNP have moved with the times. It used to be that the Tories were perceived for their anti-Scottishness, in no small way thanks to Thatcher. The real anti-Scottish party in 2007 is the "Scottish" Labour Party, for whom no depths are too great to plumb, and no grannies too revered to be thrown off a bus. in their pathetic attempts to return to days gone by, when even a billy goat wearing a red rosette would be voted into power.

10

2Right,

On Location 25/11/2007 02:40:18

Bad move
We all remember the Thatcher years, not only did she bring us the poll tax but she stole the milk from the wains at school.
I would never vote for Tories if they were the last party standing.
I did however vote SNP and as such would like this deal scrapped.
SNP do not underestimate yourselves by selling out to these cowboys.
I would rather have Labour than these two together

11

,

25/11/2007 03:11:48
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12

Navvy,

25/11/2007 03:17:11

A sensible move. What is politics if not pragmatism and the art of the possible. Labour and their LibDem fellow travellers have failed us for 60 years. With this we will see whether a new path for Scotland is possible. Independence or not we must have better policies better implimented. As for the poll tax its principle was sound but it was poorly planned and executed

13

,

25/11/2007 03:18:01
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14

Auckland Arab2,

25/11/2007 03:29:17

This is an excellent move and one for common sense. Those commenting above should wake up and realise that it is Blair and Brown that are the true successors to Thatcher. Are you really going to carry that millstone around with you for another 20 years? You obviously don't vote Tory (or SNP) for that matter so, why are you so concerned? If I were you, I would be more bothered about the complete and utter sell out of the left by New Labour. Scottish politics needs to move to the right, so we can get some sanity and growth into our moribund economy and get these career politcicians snouts out of the trough for good.

15

W Smith,

Middle East 25/11/2007 03:29:23

Well done to Margaret Thatcher for standing up to the commie ba"£$ards of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, Liverpool, Manchester, etc who supported the tyrants in Moscow and did their best to destroy the manufacturing industry with their 'one out all out' anarchy!

My only complaint is that she stood up for England but not necessarily for the UK as a whole.

BTW
Ireland's economic policy is more Thatcher and Adam Smith than Karl Marx - Bill Wilson hasn't worked this one out yet.

If the Tories and the SNP can push to cut red tape for business and lower the corporation tax so Scotland can compete with Ireland as far as economic growth is concerned then GOOD.

After lowering taxes maybe they can start with Scotland's infrastructure and get things moving.

16

James Andrews,

SNP and The Conservatives 25/11/2007 03:38:12

This is nothing new. The SNP were responsible for bringing down the Labour Government in 1979 and thus giving support to Thatcher getting elected. They paid the penalty in the election that followed. History may repeat itself.

17

Am Balach,

Skye 25/11/2007 03:39:13

This 'story' is nonsense. The SNP will have NOTHING to do with the Tories. Fundamental change has to be approved by our membership; and that has not happened!!!!

18

James Andrews,

SNP and The Conservatives 25/11/2007 03:40:28

This is nothing new. The SNP were responsible for bringing down the Labour Government in 1979 and thus giving support to Thatcher getting elected. They paid the penalty in the election that followed. History may repeat itself. Tartan Tories.

19

,

25/11/2007 03:44:45
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20

,

25/11/2007 03:57:54
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21

2Right,

On Location 25/11/2007 04:40:59

#17
I only wish she was here (May She rest In Peace)
She would also get a wee cup of tea, With Milk.
More than Thatcher gave the wains eh?

http://shirleymckie.myfastforum.org/forum1.php

22

Bad Yin,

Just back from Nihlon 25/11/2007 06:36:08

Labour and Libdems tried to scuttle compensation to our farmers and crofters. Labour and Libdems try to sabotage the Scottish agenda. Labour and Libdems outmanouvered by the SNP - Priceless!

23

A Better Way,

25/11/2007 06:54:11

The conversion of the Councils will be a great gift to the Scottish People. It guarantees no Council Tax rise for the people of Scotland until Alex and John Swinney get a chance to scrap the unfair old sysytem New Labour kept in that punished the old folk and the less well off in our Country. Obviously there is no coalition between the SNP and the Tories in the Scottish Parliament. The statement is very clear, just like smart arse Browns when he invited that old bitch Thatcher to Tea. Brown is a right wing fascist who along with Blair squashed the real Scottish Labour Party over ten years ago. That Party does not exist now except in name. They are nowt but mouthpieces for the London Government and have sold out their country and heritage. Keep up the great work SNP, take us to freedom and a better future for our bairns and old folk.

24

Nikostratos,

25/11/2007 07:11:45

the snptory party=Tartan torys are back still they do support the Union.

25

WENDY-WETNESS,

25/11/2007 07:31:36

OH DEAR OH DEAR OH DEAR......SOMETIHING SLIPPED OUT AND IT AINT FROM PUDDLES.

The labour party it seems are using the electoral roll to try to make out people in council houses and non labour voters are DONATING 200 GRAND each to the Labour party.

Would that be to hide the list of peerages upcoming...... or breaking up the donations from big business. Into swallowable chunks.....

TUT TUT TUT. FRAUD ISN'T IT?

CALL THE POLICE!

26

WENDY-WETNESS,

25/11/2007 07:33:17

THE STORY ABOVE IS ANOTHER RUMOUR COURTESY OF THE RUMOUR MILL FORMELRLY KNOWN AS SCOTSMAN......

I wonder how much they donated? 1 million? Attributed to wee betty at kinghorn caravan park?

27

donald,

weegieland 25/11/2007 07:35:28

Even the Tories are left of Labour.

28

Richardinho,

25/11/2007 07:50:38

I have been calling for this for a long time so I'm glad to see it finally happening. The natural Conservative values; self reliance, patriotism, taking responsibility, enterprise, are also ones shared by Scottish Nationalists.

The SNP of course have a proud history of working with the Tories, for example working with them to get rid of the Callaghan government, one of the most incompetent and damaging Westminster administrations of all time.

29

WENDY-WETNESS,

Stopped in a street, needing an eth en pee........ 25/11/2007 07:57:21

#14- So you would rather have the tory light lparty aka Labour? You make no sense and in addition this needs the backing of the membership if it EVER were to happen!

Labour side with the toires nad vice versa but it never gets such a sensational headline.

WHAT ABOUT DONATION FRAUD THE LABOUR PARTY ARE CURRENTLY INVOLVED IN?

30

Bad Yin,

Just back from Nihlon 25/11/2007 08:19:46

Imagine what Scotland could be like - just imagine!

31

Roballe,

Aberdeen 25/11/2007 08:26:50

Fraternising with Tories makes sense for the SNP. Like it or not, the Conservatives are in line to win the general election in two years time. They’re more likely to work with Salmon to effect a civilised separation, so they might as well start chatting now. A little cooperation within Scottish constituencies helps secure the long-term demise of Labour on both sides of the border.

32

WENDY-WETNESS,

Stopped in a street, needing an eth en pee........ 25/11/2007 08:27:00

"In a move which will be seen as a totemic shift in Scottish politics, the Nationalists will agree this week to allow their elected members to enter government with the party of Margaret Thatcher. "

This articles Like NLP for the Stupid. The Amount of keyword Embedding! LOL MArgartet Thatcher.....OOOOOH!!!!

This paper is mince and Eddie Barnes is a baldy wee fraud.

33

WENDY-WETNESS,

Stopped in a street, needing an eth en pee........ 25/11/2007 08:27:46

EDDIE use yer heid for something other than this mince. GRIWNG HAIR! It's more useful and will do your career more good....

34

WENDY-WETNESS,

Stopped in a street, needing an eth en pee........ 25/11/2007 08:28:23

GGGGRRRRR KEYBOARD! GROWING HAIR!

35

Bad Yin,

Just back from Nihlon 25/11/2007 08:30:45

What's your future?

36

eric,

Lothian 25/11/2007 08:40:59

That means all UK will be Tory soon ,Fantastic,Glad i dumped labour for Snp.

37

WENDY-WETNESS,

Stopped in a street, needing an eth en pee........ 25/11/2007 08:41:40
38

Richardinho,

25/11/2007 08:42:13

Both the SNP and the Conservatives have a shared aim; the destruction of the Scottish Labour party. A noble cause indeed.

39

David MacVicar,

WEB 25/11/2007 08:45:27

And how exactly are the minority SNP supposed to get votes through parliament without coalitions with various parties depending on the topic?

Secondly Labour has voted against the SNP on almost every vote in parliament. ALL 46 of the quislings voted against the Scottish Farmers compensation.

see: How MSPs voted in the parliament. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/6723791.stm

This is a great breakdown of the votes since the election.

Thirdly it is Nu Labour who are thje arch unionists. They waste parliamentary time trying to push through votes against the national interest in pushing a unionist, London run agenda. Even the Tories vote against them and THEY are supposed to be the unionist party! - Changed days.

See this vote: Nu Labour:
"...also stated that the best way for Scotland to achieve sustainable economic growth was as part of the UK, was rejected by 53 votes to 64 with one abstention."

So the SNP as can be seen by the votes are doing whatr they sais: Doing what is best for the country and if that means having to side with the Tories from time to time, so be it. Even the Torieds think Scotland will achieve better growth with its own policies!

40

nabodican,

Skye 25/11/2007 08:51:05

Maggie for sainthood !

41

watcher4,

Edinburgh 25/11/2007 08:56:43

Considering that SNP are just a wing of the Tories in Scotland, what is new.

42

WENDY-WETNESS,

Stopped in a street, needing an eth en pee........ 25/11/2007 09:01:25

#46 - LSD is bad! Your confusing the SNP with the SLEZY NU LABOUR PARTY

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news....

43

Hugo, Ayrshire,

25/11/2007 09:04:27

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Politics often makes strange bedfellows.

44

Richardinho,

25/11/2007 09:09:19

The Scottish Conservative party would be fine if we could just ween them off their bizarre adherence to British Nationalism.

45

WENDY-WETNESS,

Puddles in the street, and rollling in a gutter... 25/11/2007 09:24:25

THIS IS A TACKY BIT OF LABOUR PROPOGANDA perpetrated by the Rocket man with nay hair Mr Barnes!!!!!

46

Nikostratos,

25/11/2007 09:35:38

R.I.P Independence..Well done snptory party

47

WENDY-WETNESS,

Puddles in the street, and rollling in a gutter... 25/11/2007 09:54:19
48

Linda,

25/11/2007 09:56:49

Why is SoS only Scottish Newspaper not to cover possible loss of third spin doctor by Wendy?

http://www.sundaypost.com/news1.htm

Also more problems for Labour next week over dubious donations.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/ne...

49

Publius,

Girvan for the weekend 25/11/2007 10:07:20

A Tory/SNP alliance makes a lot of sense. The SNP is moving rightwards with the adoption of pro-enterprise, pro-business policies and financial subventions from millionaires. And Scotland is now a Tory-type country: owner-occupiers not tenants, service industry not manufacturing. Scots may not thank Thatcher for this, but it was Thatcher's government that laid the foundations of presentday Scotland.

50

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 25/11/2007 10:16:22

Ten years, after being led to the edge of politicial extinction, the indigenous Tories are still unable to articulate their aims and policies because the vast majority of the Scots Electorate have long memories and, if democratically possible, have no intention of ever allowing this political party back into power!

Gallus Alex Salmond has now thrown the desperate indigenous Tories a lifeline but their leaders had better watch out, in case it turns into a sinking ship?

51

james 1st,

nz 25/11/2007 10:17:32

so the snp are acting like grown ups ,too bad that labour hate scotland, personally dont like the tories but that may change if they help the snp have a stable government

52

Linda,

25/11/2007 10:21:29

SNP is going from strength to strength

This week's by election result (But not covered in "national" newspapers).



http://www.snp.org/press-releases/2007/snp-win-dundee-by-...

53

Mikey,

25/11/2007 10:26:56

So the Nulab Thatcherite party don't like the SNP and the Tories going into coalition? Well, I don't like it either! There again, I don't see Thatcher being invited to any Tory 'do's' unlike Maggie Broon inviting her to Downing Street and then pouring praise on her ploicies.

Now remind me who's the Thatcherite party?

54

REAL Doonhamer,

Dumfries 25/11/2007 10:37:45

What ban? They are already in coalition in Dumfries and Galloway- just they call it "an understanding". I.e. SNP Councillors vote in support of everthing the Tory leader proposes. They've always been Tartan Tories down here.

55

artemisclyde,

25/11/2007 10:40:04

it's funny how labour look more like damaged goods as the days go on while the tories look less so.

good to see that the SNP can't be accused of having a chip on the shoulder. we pay them to get on with running the country. if they can band together and do things which are positive then i am all for it - even if it is with the tories.

i am certainly no tory supporter, but i do see them in a wider

it certainly beats the very childish and churlish attitude of labour and the libdems who can' t stand the fact they lost (still!!) and are determined along with their supporters, to hijack and ambush the scottish government at every turn. this does not work in the interests of the scottish people.

oh and Scotsman "Margaret Thatcher's party"?? I believe that Gordon Brown has been the only PM recently to get Maggie back in to Number 10 for a chat. The Tories realise that she was a liability - in the same way as Tony Blair - and now Gordon Brown - will become for Labour.

56

artemisclyde,

25/11/2007 10:42:40

....[in a wider].. range of their policies as having learned something from their past and coming up with more common sense policies.

57

Mr Lahey,

25/11/2007 10:49:34

Wow who would have thought it Vote SNP and get the Tories !

Its clear to me that Alex S will do and say anything to achieve a goal that most people in the country don't want !

As Alistair Campbell said ..He will be judged on delivery and that will be at the next election. I for one am not worried and can't see independance happening.

58

Cadgers,

Perth 25/11/2007 10:51:53

#53 Linda your mailonsunday link has been removed!.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-7101718,00.html

59

Mercutio,

Falkirk 25/11/2007 10:54:01

"The Beast with Two Backs" is better than minority government.

60

Teemackell the Scribe,

25/11/2007 10:54:46

Barnes writes, "First Minister Alex Salmond and Tory leader David Cameron meet for the first time to discuss how they may share power if Cameron wins the next general election"

The Tory Party is a vehicle for political power. If it is excluded for too long it will resort to desperate measures. If it is shut out by the Westminster votes of Scottish MPs who can rule their constituents without English MPs having the converse privilege, they will not thole it. David Cameron may become the Edward Carson of the island of Great Britain and, in extremis, be preparing to cut adrift a part of the island that is a political impediment to achieving Tory power in Middle Engalnd. A velvet divorce, Czech-style, initiated by the dominant partner may be coming.

61

WENDY-WETNESS,

25/11/2007 10:56:39

Notice the approach from Nu LAba? Scotland hates the Tories , so bung them into the same bag.

Forgive me. But I never saw Alex Salmond Fawning over Margaret Thatcher? I never saw the SNP turn fro ma leftish party into the most right wing party since the tories? I never saw the SNP asking for the BArnett formula to be cut in order to gain points? I saw this from the LABOUR PARTY

NICE TRY SHALLOW ONES!

62

Boy Wonder,

25/11/2007 10:59:02

Give me real proof and I will walk away from the SNP. I could NEVER tolerate the presence of the Tories in power of any kind ever again.

However, I do not believe this. Alex Salmond knows how much the Tories are hated in Scotland. I doubt very much he could let an alliance happen, because he knows he'd be out on his ear if he did this. And he would not be trusted ever again!

But, I suspect Eddie is at it again on behalf of his political masters in New Labour!

This paper really is in the gutter now, isn't it?

63

erchie,

25/11/2007 11:04:31

I think were going to see a velvet divorce between the london tories and holyrood.

64

artemisclyde,

25/11/2007 11:09:57

68 - it is certainly something that has been discussed in tory circles.

65

WENDY-WETNESS,

25/11/2007 11:11:01

#67 has joined "puddles" in the gutter , they both spout p15h.

66

WENDY-WETNESS,

25/11/2007 11:12:17

#67 - I mean the paper has joined her. Just re read and it looks wrong.

68

Nikostratos,

25/11/2007 11:21:51

And of courses as the Conservative become more electable trough their marriage to the snp. The larger their Majority at Westminster and the west lothian question and the rest of that tosh can be put to one side and it is business as usual within the United kingdom.

Happy days are here again

69

WENDY-WETNESS,

lying in a gutter, maiking some puddles....... 25/11/2007 11:48:18

IMPORTANT NOTICE:

IT HAS COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT A BREACH OF ETHICS HAS OCCURED. THIS PAPER WAS ONCE REGISTERED AT THE POST OFFICE AS A NEWS PAPER.

WE APPEAR TO HAVE NOT NOTICED THAT IT HS BEEN REGRADED TOO PARTY POLITICAL PAMPHLET.

THIS LOSS OF INTEGRITY HAPPENED DUE TO A SENIOR MEMBER OF POLITICAL STAFF USING IT TO FURTHER HIS OWN AGENDA.

THE SUSPECT IS 3 FOOT 6, BALD AND WEARS HARRY POTTER GREGORIES.


HOOTSMON APPOLOGISES FOR THIS OVERSIGHT AND LOSS OF IT'S CREDIBILITY.

70

Craig Munro,

25/11/2007 12:04:04

The policy of not making deals with the Tories in the past was in my view correct.

Things have changed dramatically however and to reverse that ban also seems correct.

New Labour have visited places that Thatcher would have baulked at and there is no reason sensible thinking shouldn't be in place to take Scotland forward. Most Conservatives I know are stronger on the "Conservative" part of their name than they are on the "Unionist" part of their name anyway.

71

,

25/11/2007 12:05:01
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72

Methspaña,

25/11/2007 12:11:32

20. James Andrews, SNP and The Conservatives / 3:38am 25 Nov 2007

"This is nothing new. The SNP were responsible for bringing down the Labour Government in 1979 and thus giving support to Thatcher getting elected. They paid the penalty in the election that followed. History may repeat itself."

No it was the Tories if you check Hansard. The SNP wanted the confidence motion (following the 40% rule") but couldn't as it's only the official opposition who are allowed to do this.

I of course have told you this before with your previous moniker.

;-)

73

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 25/11/2007 12:12:06

This is what I forecast after the May election. The nationalists are returning to their natural habitat.

74

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 25/11/2007 12:15:17

78

Meths, chack Hansard and you will see that the SNP moved a motion of no confidence before the Tories did. They certainly supported the Tories in their motion, brought down the Labour government, lost 9 of their 11 seats in the subsequent General Election and gave us Margaret Thatcher. A real shrewd nationalist move.

75

Methspaña,

25/11/2007 12:16:34

I would welcome ANY coalition that would help consign NieuLab to the dustbin of history. ANY coalition.

76

Methspaña,

25/11/2007 12:18:40

80 Gerry

Yes Gerry. The SNP did indeed move the motion, but it wasn't allowed. They voted along with other parties to bring down the Government. They were miffed at the 40% rule. Check Hansard.

The SNP called it wrong and we suffered.

77

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 25/11/2007 12:23:49

82

Meths, Scotland awaits an apology from the SNP.

78

Methspaña,

25/11/2007 12:24:07

Gerry

"That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty’s
Government.
(Opposition motion carried 311-310: Government resigned)
[HC Deb vol 965 cc461-590]"

OPPOSITION MOTION. The SNP was not the official opposition party.

79

Methspaña,

25/11/2007 12:31:03

Gerry

I missed a bit (Hansard)

"-PM, Callaghan, opened; LOpp, Thatcher, responded.
28 March 1979
(Wednesday)
That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty’s
Government.
(Opposition motion carried 311-310: Government resigned)
[HC Deb vol 965 cc461-590]

Thatcher moved the motion OK?

80

Gilbie's Boy,

25/11/2007 12:31:44

#20 another re-write at history? The small SNP Group at Westminster withdrew support for the Callaghan govt when Labour screwed up. Even the LABOUR MPS didn't all support "their" Government. I think you'll find it was a UK general election that recognised that Labour was finished and brought in the Thatcher years. (Oh that the SNP had the power to elect a UK govt.)

The far left dominated Labour Party was dead long before then and needed to be put down for the good of the country.

Perhaps you might have something constructive to say about the future, rather than raking over the coals of 30-odd years ago?

Local authorities need the formation of majority political administrations. Scotland needs a budget. The electorate kicked Labour out. The SNP now have more local councillors than Labour in Scotland - something that I never expected to see. The Lib Dems are afraid to give the Scots a referendum on their future, but are quite happy to press for a referendum on Europe - rank hypocracy if ever you needed an example of it. The only other party big enought to make a difference in some Councils and at Holyrood are the Conservatives. Labour and Libs in local goverment are playing silly bu**ers locally to try to frustrate the SNP nationally.

The SNP move seems logical to me, even if it wouldn't have been my first choice, but if Nicol Steven has the chance to take part in government and turns it down over a referendum that would let the "people" speak, that's his lookout. If nobody elase will co-operate but the tories, it doesn't say much for the others.

(BTW if AM2 has really been outed and spends so much time on these websites I hope that he has VERY understanding partners in his firm - if he was an employee of mine, he'd be spending a lot more time with his keyboard from now on!!)

The Labour Party really don't take defeat too well, does it? The way things are going in London, they better get used to i

81

Richardinho,

25/11/2007 12:35:25

Thank God, we got rid of the awful Callaghan government! The whole of Britain , not just Scotland would probably be a third world country had we not got rid of those numpties.

Always a good laugh to hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the ridiculous labourites over the SNP's role in this.

Personally I am proud to be part of a party which stopped incompetents like John Smith and Donald Dewar having any further role in running the country.

82

noswod,

Honestus Tounus 25/11/2007 12:37:01

By the tories it is blantant political opportunitism. How can these two join together when the Tories want to cut services and the SNP wish to fuel up the Scotiish depency culture so they can try and win next time. What is happening is a rerun of shortterm political policies aimed at gandering votes for the next election. When Salmond quotes other small European countries as his economic and social model eg Norway,Holland, Sweden, Finland etc he finds to understand that their economic model is built upon the pursuit of long term polictical objectivies. Unfortunately it appears that politics post Independence it will be "business as usual" give em the money and get elected. However the money will run out quickly and there is not the fairly godmother that helped the Irish - EU money. Incidently the Irish have pursued long term economic goals for a generation before they hit the jackpot from the EU. Anyway its "Scotlands Oil" if you can find it and I say Ferguson for England.

83

kimba,

25/11/2007 13:39:54

88,as you say what people will do to get what they want!

84

kimba,

25/11/2007 13:53:17

Meths. Considering you have made your life in spain,why are you so concerned about who does what in Scotland?

85

Mora,

25/11/2007 14:09:15

Where are the Greens in all this?

86

NERIED,

Glasgow 25/11/2007 14:12:12

Et tu, Alex?

87

WENDY-WETNESS,

glasgow 25/11/2007 14:22:32

#94 - Fainting from lack of proper meat protein. I heard AM2's of to get some protein now...........

88

WENDY-WETNESS,

glasgow 25/11/2007 14:23:23

#91 - considering you live in england , your point is????????

89

WENDY-WETNESS,

Puddles in the street, and rollling in a gutter... 25/11/2007 14:35:48

Spook - hooos poos perhaps wendies and the problems escalated? White would really be a bad colour then!!

90

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 25/11/2007 14:43:12

Astonishing as it may seem, the SNP and Tories share policies that are extraordinarily close. Tax cuts, more police, aiding car-owners by abolishing the Forth Bridge toll: the Tories must be extremely worried that their MSPs will soon start crossing the floor. But that, after all, is exactly what they are doing en masse by signing a cooperation agreement.
Anyone who has witnessed the evolution of SNP-supporters knows that the SNP is a rightwing wolf draped in a lefwing sheepskin. Just wait until its supporters start howling about immigrants!

91

WENDY-WETNESS,

Puddles in the street, and rollling in a gutter... 25/11/2007 14:54:59

Oh AM2 must have got train and arrived in edinburgh to delete the humour and obfuscate his hypocrisy.

92

Methspaña,

25/11/2007 15:05:47

91. kimba / 1:53pm 25 Nov 2007

"Meths. Considering you have made your life in spain,why are you so concerned about who does what in Scotland?"

...and you are from NE England. What's yer point?

93

Urban Guerrilla,

25/11/2007 15:18:20

This is good news, if true. It may help break the mould of corrupt, complacent, unintelligent, Labour-dominated politics in Scotland.

94

Lastsocialist,

Paris, le nombril du monde 25/11/2007 15:26:18

This alliance is welcome if it means achieving full independence for Scotland. The Tories, though still the nasty party, are no more nasty than New Labour. The Tories, at least, are honest about being grasping bourgeois capitalists. Saor Alba and let's stamp on the unjust Union in the interests of democracy.

95

Wendy Alexbanter MSP,

crapping my self at big posts from snp heartlands 25/11/2007 15:34:58

Davesubsea..

Stop Stop Stop..you are destroying me , i beg for forgiveness, please my lips are moist and i could do with a smooch..x

96

malcolmcean,

25/11/2007 15:50:07

The Tories have some sensible policies. The SNP are by far the best chance we have in Scotland of competent government (I actually dread to think back upon the days when a collection of barely articulate incompetents were in charge). This is actually quite a good thing.

The old SUP's (Scottish Unionist party) destruction began when it merged with the Tories in the '60s (to form the Conservative and Unionist party). From being a distinctly Scottish, presbyterian, egalitarian, meritocratic organisation, it became, almost overnight, associated (in the minds of the electorate) with high-Anglicanism, elitism, provincially English (the shires and home counties), hierarchical (all the values of the English Tory party).

It seems, under Anabel, a new party is emerging from the ashes of the old SUP. I don't think, as our rather excitable journalist has it here, that the current Scottish Tories are the party of Thatcher. There are, if anything, the inheritors of the old SUP (particularly as the Scottish CaUP are, unlike the Lib-Labers, more or less a fully autonomous Scottish party).

The only SNP posters with Thatcher on them come the next election will be, I would imagine, those which have Magaret Thatcher and Gordon Brown shaking hands outside Downing Street recently, with Brown's valedictory to Thatcher verbatin in a word bubble above his head.

Hopefully the SNP will post that all over Kirkaldy, where the locals remember only too well (mines) how far removed from the SUP were the Tories of Margarte Thatcher whom Gordon Brown loves so dearly.

97

Reg W,

25/11/2007 15:58:28

No change there from the tartan tories

98

malcolmcean,

25/11/2007 16:13:04

Reg W

Although i do think that the odd west of Scotland 1970's union man reads this paper, I don't think that they are in the majority. So, I am not entirely convinced that repeating slogans from the 1970s, in the hope that they rally 'the working class' (again a dated concept) is the best way to convince people of your given argument (which is what, incidentally? The SNP are bad? or something else as charmingly child-like?)

99

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/11/2007 16:30:57

122 Some change form the right wing new Labour types though - Trident, Iraq, Inheritance Tax reductions, Tuition Fees....

100

Col Blimp IV*,

25/11/2007 16:33:01

AM2 can be found at


www.amscottca.co.uk and www.scottca.co.uk

101

Methspaña,

25/11/2007 16:34:21
102

malcolmcean,

25/11/2007 16:35:14

Post 125:

Why are you posting those links?

103

Queen D,

Glasgow 25/11/2007 16:40:49

Great articles,all those who informed us of the 'interesting' donations ,thanks!
C'mon the boys in blue!

104

Greenbum,

Northampton 25/11/2007 16:46:59

The SNP were always know as Tartan Tories when I lived in Scotland - as they always say the Truth will oot!

105

malcolmcean,

25/11/2007 16:53:37

131 writes: "The SNP were always know as Tartan Tories when I lived in Scotland"

They were called the Tartan Tories by Wilile Ross and those who wanted to believe that did. You and yours obviously wanted to believe it.

It is one of those terms which was used to convince the poorly educated not to vote for the SNP (bit like Orwell's 'fourlegs good two legs bad' mantra).

Times have moved on somewhat. The modern era's plethora of modern technology allows the majority of people to see what the truth of things is for themselves (and not just accept what their da' and the local Labour mp told them at the local miners club).

106

Publius,

Girvan for the weekend 25/11/2007 17:00:06

#102 Caora Dubh
Almost spot on. The SNP in government will likely turn out to be a right wing sheep in sheep's clothing. After 10 years of Labour the logic of government is rightwards, so that's the direction the SNP is going. Scotland will soon have two informal coalitions Labour/LibDem and SNP/Tory. One based in the west, on unions, public sector workers and old fashioned toon councillors. The other based in the east and centred on the professions, private sector workers etc. This should see us through to 2017 or whenever the SNP manages to get its referendum on independence.

107

Nikostratos,

25/11/2007 19:35:35

Alex Salmonds new club now he is on the up


Bullingdon Club bad boys 2. David Cameron,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2007/02/14/noxfo...

108

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 25/11/2007 19:43:53

The SNP in league with the Tories. History repeats itself. Disgraceful.

109

Generalissimo Hernandez,

25/11/2007 20:03:03

So, I posted at #4 that the Conservatives weren't actually called the called the Conservative & Unionist Party, as evidenced on their website, and that was worth removing?

Sad, very sad.

110

Yeahbutnobut,

Aberdeen 25/11/2007 20:11:10

The first line in the article, "THE SNP is to pave the way for a historic coalition pact with the Conservatives...", is a load of speculative puff designed to bring the baying hordes out.

I applaud the SNP's principled 20 year stand against working with the Conservatives since the Thatcher years. Something the Labour party never had the guts to do.

But things change. Now in Conservative and Labour you have two right wing parties and in the Lib-Dems a third party of Labour acolytes.

It's illogical to keep the ban on one right wing party only. Either the ban has to apply to both the Conservatives and to Labour or to none.

I think that it's a good move to remove the ban. Labour has no qualms in forming alliances with the Conservatives to scupper the SNP so why should the SNP play with one hand tied behind their backs.

Labour already find it very easy to work with the Tories.

Dundee City Council is a Lab/Lib-Dem/Tory alliance to keep the SNP out and East Dunbartonshire is a Labour/Tory alliance to keep the SNP out.

111

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/11/2007 20:39:38

153 Nice one, LMAO - toffee apple bit is poetry hehehe

112

Louisa R,

25/11/2007 20:45:35

#154,#155 - erm, not very considered "responses" to the financials or poll data

113

Nikostratos,

25/11/2007 20:48:22

#152 Yeahbutnobut

"But things change" Quiet right and you must change your principles and values to suit the present situation. It only pushes Independence further away keep going i say well done.

#154 The spook in Leith
under SNP control soon

http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/PraysingCelebration.jpg

114

Richardinho,

25/11/2007 21:10:18

I'm quite happy for the SNP to join with the Tories to give the Labour party a bloody nose. Just like 79 all over again-happy days!

115

Nikostratos,

25/11/2007 21:23:17
116

Nikostratos,

25/11/2007 21:39:31

spook you will like this one

http://www.ph.ed.ac.uk/sussp61/poster/PosterEvening_files...

Not sure about this one though

http://scot.serverspeople.net/flagwavers.jpg


Anyway Gudnight to you

117

Sanny,

Portugal 25/11/2007 22:14:01

146. An English voice...:

I’ve answered that question repeatedly for you. What is the matter? Do you have difficulty in reading or is it zero comprehension? Do you need assistance with simple arithmetic? Or are you just plain stupid and in denial?

I have directed this poster to where s/he can find some of the answers s/he claims to seek. The McCrone Report and “The Great Lie and The Great Deception”.

One must conclude either crass stupidity or a Troll – perhaps both!!

118

Gtj,

Dundee 25/11/2007 22:39:44

This news is almost as good as the Scotland draw for the world cup.

I can almost sence the end of New Labour. Would that be a bad thing. Somehow I think not.

119

Sanny,

Portugal 25/11/2007 22:52:51

163. Liberal for life, Dunblane:
First my sincere commiseration if you really are stuck with being a Liberal for life. Did you commit murder or some other heinous crime?

Do you understand the concept of proportional representation and in particular, the specific convoluted form that the LD’s helped the NL force on Scotland, with the prime intention of ensuring the SNP could never form a government? This was the system that gave the LD’s the pretence of being in Government by forming an alliance with NL.

This system of governance demands some form of coalition between parties. The LD was given the opportunity to join such a coalition with the SNP, but refused because the SNP wanted to take the democratic step of asking the People of Scotland if they wanted the continuation of the Union. This is the same LD’s who were quite happy to agree to a policy, which was said to be against their principles, but which resulted in the murder of over half a million people, which continues to this day; but could not bring themselves to cooperate with the party that wanted to ask the People a simple democratic question. The irony is that they still would have had the opportunity to vote the question down, whereas they were steamrollered into agreeing with war.

The LD’s are a party of very strange principals or perhaps none! How do you live with your consciences’? I admire the SNP for forming agreements to take good government forward, that doesn’t mean ditching your principles or beliefs. May I respectfully suggest you put aside prejudice and think carefully about what you want for your country?

120

Yane,

25/11/2007 23:34:58

"you could argue that Labour are now further to the right than theTories," — but is this honestly true?
I don't believe it.

121

Senga Jean,

Scotland 25/11/2007 23:59:01

So AM2 Is just a bean counter. Walter Mitty or what?

122

Conan,

Moffat 26/11/2007 00:21:46

Let's not insult each other on this most important matter. We do have fun with each other on other topics - but this one is too important, in my opinion.

Let's proceed to get our sovereignty back by becoming an INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND, again.

Then, let's have the national debate about how that INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND will be governed, and by whom.

123

Stockbridge,

26/11/2007 01:24:39

Sturgeon has her hair dyed already - so will it be a blue twin set and pearls in the near future?

124

The Forgotten Princess,

Horrendicoot = More Harm Than Good To Any Cause 26/11/2007 06:09:09

WOW! What a concept, bury the hatchet and work together! Gee, would this include MUTUAL RESPECT?

What a concept! Seems to be demonstrative of intelligence. Anyone taking any hints from this????????

125

The Forgotten Princess,

Horrendicoot = More Harm Than Good To Any Cause 26/11/2007 06:14:08

THINK ABOUT THAT!

THERE IS AN INTELLIGENT WAY TO WORK THINGS OUT.

********PEOPLE, CAN YOU READ THIS? TAKE A HINT.********


Take a crazy chance. Just a little mutual respect might surprise everyone and go a long way.

126

Queen D,

Glasgow 26/11/2007 09:43:08

They are ALL supposed to be working for the Scottish people.
Goodness knows who the Labour/liberals were working for but it was'nt Scotland and her people!
And it would seem that they are still working for anyone BUT us!

127

Derick fae Yell,

The Day Aff Hoose 26/11/2007 09:51:23

Why not?

But will the Scottish Tories have enough sense to
grasp the opportunity. The alternative is continued half life as the political living dead, and then extinction.

I know one thing - whatever you think of the Tories, they're better than the Liberal Tramocrats!!!
then again - that's a brawly low crossbar!

Also they might be less likely to try and set hotels and fire and indulge in foul mouthed drunken abuse, than Labour (may it RIP).

Ony a peerie innocent thocht!

128

Walter Ego,

Durness 26/11/2007 10:46:06

Certainly a new take on the Auld Alliance but what about the Council Tax freeze?

129

ed.,

in Edin 26/11/2007 12:54:00

"the move could lead to several changes in government in councils where the SNP has frozen itself out of power because of its refusal to work with the Tories. They include Dundee, South Ayrshire, West Lothian, Falkirk..."

The SNP leader on Falkirk Council, David Alexander, for some reason didn't mention that a deal with the Falkirk Council Tories kept him in power until the last election, so it can't be a ban keeping him out of power now.

130

MandyMac,

Glasgow 26/11/2007 13:24:04

SNP were closer to theTories with their manifesto so it's not really a surprise. This somehow makes sense, as I can/could never quite put my finger on why SNP make my skin crawl, I now have a part of my answer.

131

Gregor Addison,

Scotland 26/11/2007 13:26:33

Laughable that all the Labour/Lib Dem drones are trotting out the usual 'Tartan Tory' jibes. If any party has been cosying up to the Tories it's the Labour/Lib Dem party. Tavish Scott spat the dummy out for Wendy when they didn't play ball on the budget, revealing - if we didn't know already - that the only thing the Lab-Libs have in mind is wrecking the budget and bringing down the government. The Tories have shown a capacity for ploughing their own furrow that the Lib Dems have failed to show. Nicol is quite clearly in Wendy Alexander's pocket.

132

Gregor Addison,

Scotland 26/11/2007 13:28:14

Oh, incidentally, as for the jibe that the SNP let the Tories in...what about the fact that the Labour party kept them in. In the end, the only way the Labour party could get them out was to become Tories MkII.

133

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 26/11/2007 15:50:41

168

Wini, I don't know about that. Remember that a lot of Tories voted SNP in May.

134

Walter Ego,

Durness 26/11/2007 16:15:29

186

Gerry, I couldn't agree more but what do you know about the Council Tax freeze?

135

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 28/11/2007 15:00:49

Minority Governments must work with whichever party will help them deliver their manifesto.

Happily the Conservatives in Holyrood are a million miles from the worst excesses of Thatcherism and therefore acceptable bedfellows at this point in Scottish politics.


 

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