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Outrage as Salmond brands Labour opponents 'anti-Scottish'

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Published Date:
22 April 2007
ALEX Salmond last night branded his Labour opponents anti-Scottish, prompting a furious counter-claim that he had plumbed new depths in the search for votes.
The SNP leader accused Labour of "attacking Scotland and Scottish self-confidence", claiming Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Jack McConnell were guilty of falling "out of touch" with a new mood of can-do optimism in the country.

Labour's campaign, which has sought to highlight the cost of independence and the SNP, is "anti that modern Scotland," he added.

The inflammatory comments came despite Salmond's recent attempts to present a more statesmanlike image. They last night sparked a furious reaction from Labour as McConnell claimed Salmond was effectively branding anyone who opposed independence as unpatriotic. He demanded Salmond apologise to voters who were concerned about the costs of independence and the SNP's policies.

Salmond's incendiary comments, contained in an interview today with Scotland on Sunday, come as a new set of polls show the SNP is still ahead of Labour as the last full week of campaigning gets under way.

A new poll last night gave a boost to the SNP, with YouGov putting the Nationalists on 35% of the overall vote, with Labour on 28% and the Lib Dems and Tories each on 13%. However, voters were dubious about independence, with just 26% plumping for the policy compared with 37% for more power for Holyrood, 17% no change and 12% for ditching Holyrood altogether.

Salmond described the party's lead this close to an election as "uncharted territory".

Labour is to increase the pressure on Salmond in the last few crucial days of the campaign, focusing yet more fire on what it claims are holes in the party's finances.

In the interview, Salmond lashed out against the tactics. He said: "It seems to me to be one of the most uncoordinated, old-fashioned and thoroughly disreputable campaigns - not disreputable incidentally because they are attacking me or the SNP, that doesn't matter - it's disreputable in the sense that they are attacking Scotland and Scottish self-confidence, almost at times verging on to, you know, 'Its not the SNP that's a basket case, it's Scotland that's a basket case.'"

Salmond asserted that Labour's negative tactics will have turned off leading entrepreneurs, including non-SNP supporters such as Sir Tom Hunter and Sir David Murray, and described the attacks as "totally antithetical" to their work.

"They would never accept the nature of what's at the bottom - boiled down to its grizzly essence - the nature and heart of the Labour campaign, the black heart of the Labour campaign."

He claimed Labour were now "out of synch" with modern Scotland. "The Labour campaign isn't an anti-SNP campaign, it is anti that new Scotland, it is out of date, it's out of time," he declared.

Salmond was talking specifically about Labour's campaign, but McConnell last night seized on the comments.

"It's arrogant in the extreme for Alex Salmond to suggest that Scots are not patriotic simply because they don't support him or his party," he said.

He added: "The vast majority of Scottish businesses don't want to break up Britain nor do the vast majority of families in Scotland. Alex Salmond should apologise for insulting all those businesses and families who are simply concerned about the impact and cost of separating Scotland from Britain. And if Alex Salmond has a problem with Labour's campaign, it's because we are uncovering the truth that his party is trying to hide about the cost of independence."

Chancellor Gordon Brown declared in Edinburgh yesterday that the campaign had reached "a moment of truth". Brown is expected to spend much of the next week driving home his message about the SNP's economic policies.

Page 1 of 1

 
1

Not Brian Taylor,

22/04/2007 00:30:42

More crap Labour-Scotsman spin on Salmond making remarks that are self-evidently true.

Those polls don't look good at all for Labour. What a shame.

2

Jimmyczz,

East Kilbride 22/04/2007 00:30:46

oh please, is this the best you can do?????

3

www.scottwebb.co.uk.,

22/04/2007 00:32:17

Good on him :)

4

Faye,

Scotland 22/04/2007 00:39:08

To quote the Scottish Executive:

One Scotland, no place for racism!

5

,

22/04/2007 00:40:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 549590, Article id was mapped to record!
6

Alex Young Laird of Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/04/2007 00:41:42

Alex Salmond brands Labour propaganda as anti-Scottish. What a shockerooni. This is rank desperation from a failing newspaper. A headline out of absolutely nothing.

7

innesm,

Austin, Texas 22/04/2007 00:44:01

Alex Salmond "brands," makes "inflammatory/incendiary comments," and "lashes out." He must be really unstable, don't you think Eddie? Same old hack journalism out to scare the voters. However, the 99 Red Balloons in your photo make an appropriate backdrop.

8

Alex Young Laird of Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/04/2007 00:46:01

Name, eh you'll find that the SNP will have the first Muslim MSP after the elecion.

if you want racism what about the genocide of 1 000 000 Iraqis in an illegal war? Bigots? How many rangers fans will be voting unionist because of David Murray's endoresments? Yeh, bigots and racists and unionists unite...

Your accusation only create a climate of fear for minorities. But that doesn't matter to people like you who will say anything for a political job/junket.

9

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 22/04/2007 00:47:06

Theres a lot of red balloons in that picture ...

Spot that which is not ... and win .. a balloon !

10

Skirvy,

Auld Reek 22/04/2007 00:48:12

Bring on May the 3rd! Keep trying Hootsman, you will not change the minds of the Scottish people. We know the truth.

The SNP's campaign has been positive and they have always said 'the Scottish people will decide'. Hootsman thats what will happen.

And have Labour even said one positive thing in the whole campaign? Nope, all they have done is patronise the Scottish people with scare mongering crap!

Labour and its propaganda papers , the Times, The Sun, The Daily Record, The News of the World and the Scotsman, are just 'grasping at straws'. So your negative campiagn isn't working, you are just making us more determined than ever to vote for a party that 'cares' about our intrests and values. Labour just want to keep hold of us because without Scotland they'd cease to exist.

Also the torries are 'anti - Scottish', just you wait until Gordon Brown becomes the Primeminister. Cameron will pull out every anti-Scottish card in the book so that he can gain Middle England again and make the English people ant-Scottish. Either way we'll all smell the coffee and go it alone because we have nothing to lose, o except 'England.lol

This week and the following week Labour will lay into 'Scottish Independence' and Scotland so much our ears will start to bleed. Gordon Brown will come out with the same old rubbish as usual 'You'll need passports to come to England', 'You'll all be skint and inpoverished', the scare tactics don't work, Salmond has hit the nail on the head as usual.

Roll on May the 3rd.

11

Jimmyczz,

East Kilbride 22/04/2007 00:52:55

The actual story isnt that bad, its the inflamitory sub editor doing the headline writing that needs a ......... bollocking

12

Ted,

22/04/2007 00:58:13

Non-story. Real news is on the Sunday Herald today. Film at 11.

13

Wisnaeme,

22/04/2007 00:59:39

'
When McConnell is questioned on Iraq,Trident,defence policies, Pensions,income tax,even the extention of New Labour policies into Scotland it's apparently nothing to do with him.But wait a minute, isn't McConnell a fully paid up member of New Labour,so why has it got nothing to do with him? Erm, these are reserved matters and outwith my remit says he.

Aye. I think Alex is merely stating the obvious.Time for a change.Time for Scotland to be represented by folk who put the Scottish nations's interests first and foremost.

14

Sanny,

22/04/2007 01:03:27

When they quote the actual words spoken by Alex Salmond the headline and comments make no sense - like voting for labour - no sense at all

15

Carlo,

Fort William 22/04/2007 01:05:45

#12 Ted

We know the real news is in the Sunday Herald...so why dont' you come back over and continue the discussion on the 'cash for favours' ....feart! eh!!!

16

Ted,

22/04/2007 01:13:37

Here's a link for those that missed it.
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.1...

Ah'm no feart, no wi righteousness on ma side!

17

Porty Nat,

22/04/2007 01:17:59

'Outrage' from who? A couple of diddy Labour press officers? Get a grip, SoS...

18

John S,

22/04/2007 01:18:38

Broon:- "Paul Gascoigne's goal against Scotland in Euro 96 was his favourite football moment".

Nuff Said !!!

19

DJ Glasgow,

Glasgow 22/04/2007 01:38:49

Outrage? Who? The Labour party and its editors? No-one claimed voting for a unionist party was anti scottish. Salmond claimed the Labour campaign and its rubbishing of Scotland was insulting and anti Scottish. Spinning stories to that extent denies them credibility.

20

macdonaj,

Aberdeen.Scot;land 22/04/2007 01:39:53

The sensational headline does does reflect the actual
story.The Scotsman , like all reputable ,newspapers
is not supposed to make the news or bend and twist
the news.IT IS SUPPOSED TO REPORT THE NEWS.

21

Gav T,

Glasgow 22/04/2007 01:40:25

Oh please, this is getting ridiculous! You even admit in the article: "Salmond was talking specifically about Labour's campaign". In any case, it's the truth! Labour's campaign has absolutely been anti-scottish....its been anti-everything! A complete juxta-pose to the positive, upbeat message of the SNP.

The Scottish people will only listen to so much of this scaremongering before switching off. As far as I can see, that happened about 3 months ago. It's time!

22

Who's Adam Smith?,

Fife 22/04/2007 01:48:18

To the scootsman writers: he're a little ditty; written by the Charlatans:

I'm going to try again today
To say whats in my heart
And pray for a better tomorrow
Make a brand new start
I'm telling everybody to turn it up again
Something's gotta change
Good bye yesterday
Try again today
Something's gotta change

Maybe you can call me when you get to heaven
Maybe you can tell me I can go to hell
But I know rain or shine I'll be there tomorrow
Maybe its written in the stars above you
Maybe its just scratched in sand
But I know you'll find your own dream tomorrow

I'm going to try again today
To say whats in my heart
And pray for a better tomorrow
Make a brand new start
I'm telling everybody to turn it up again
Something's gotta change
Good bye yesterday
Try again today
Something's gotta change

23

Its Time,

Glasgow 22/04/2007 01:52:48

Todays YouGov poll for The Sunday Times

SNP pulls 7% clear of Labour

THE Scottish National party is on course for a decisive victory in the Holyrood election, according to the most comprehensive survey of public opinion since the campaign began.

With only 11 days to go until polling, the SNP continues to extend its lead over Labour, which now requires a seismic turnaround in its fortunes to avoid defeat.

A YouGov poll for The Sunday Times puts the SNP seven points clear of Labour in both the first-past-the-post and regional votes for the Scottish parliament. In the constituency vote, the SNP is on 37%, Labour 30%, the Liberal Democrats 15%, the Scottish Conservatives 14% and others 4%. In the regional vote the SNP is on 35%, Labour 28%, the Tories and Lib Dems 13% and other 11%.

Read the whole article here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article168...

24

Faye,

Scotland 22/04/2007 02:00:21

Has anyone looked at the Latest News Section of the Scootsman?

They are stiffling debate. No comment on many of the articles.

I've always be grateful for the freedom to speak on the Scootsman forums but I fear they are moving more and more to "pay as you go" articles for reading, and "no comments" welcomed.

Maybe the journalists are getting a bit miffed because some get comments and others don't, or maybe it is because they don't like "free" speech?

Some comments have been removed by Scotsman mods when they were not offensive.

Anyone else feeling like this?

25

Alex1,

Glasgow 22/04/2007 02:00:38

It gets better:

New poll deepens Labour's gloom

Labour's struggling Holyrood campaign will be dealt another severe blow this morning when a new opinion poll puts the Scottish National Party ahead by at least six points.
With less than two weeks to go until polling day, and despite the recent campaigning onslaught by Prime Minister Tony Blair and Chancellor Gordon Brown, the party appears unable to eat into Alex Salmond's lead, and behind the scenes the blame game has already begun, with friction setting in between the Blair and Brown camps.

Full article:-
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/scotland/story/0,,2063055,...

26

K.Y,

Edinburgh 22/04/2007 02:10:15

A statesmanlike image from Salmond?

Ha!

27

Who's Adam Smith?,

Fife 22/04/2007 02:21:55

They have got to be kidding me; you just could not make this stuff up. Ms Rowling this might be good for your next book!

'I don't want Scotland to get a kicking just because people may want to give him one,' he said. 'This is the most fundamental election choice that Scotland has faced for at least a generation. The consequences of the decision made on 3 May will stay with Scotland for decades to come.'

28

Faye,

Scotland 22/04/2007 02:28:50

Outrage?

Why this is an outrage.

“THE government is poised to turn into Big Brother when it comes to our financial affairs.

It plans to remove our remaining privacies by allowing banks and other institutions to reveal details of our accounts to each other and credit reference agencies, even though we may not have given permission for this data to be shared.”

http://business.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=616722007

This, along with the government’s request to GP’s around the country to upload our medical data onto
the government’s proposed computer records called the “Spine” really is intrusive.
http://www.nhsconfidentiality.org/?page_id=3


We all need to stop this invasion of our privacy before it is too late.

Write, telephone, email and speak to your MP.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/vli/mspwork/contactinga...

There are none at the moment until 3rd May but, if they knock on your door be sure to tackle them on the above points.

29

somerferg,

o 22/04/2007 02:41:19

Good on you Alex Salmond and why the picture of all the balloons??

30

Buchanan,

California 22/04/2007 02:48:21

"it's disreputable in the sense that they are attacking Scotland and Scottish self-confidence"

Duh - yep that is exactly what there are doing -
Labor, Libs , Tories - They continually undermine Scotland as being incapable of governing itself as
an independent country. How stupid Scotland
would be to break from Mother England. Well guess what every other one of Mother England's children was scolded in the same way and chose to disobey and surprise, surprise prospered despite the dire warnings. Alex Salmond was very polite and professional in his accurate comments - he could equally have called them all quislings and would still have been totally justified.

Mother Englands Children bio :

America stands on her own two feet 1776
Australia stands on her own two feet 1901
New Zealand stands on her own two feet 1907
Canada stands on her own two feet 1919
Ireland (most of it) stands on her own two feet
1921
Scotland stand on their own two feet -
2000 and ???
late, but should soon join the
brotherhood of all of Mother England's
disobedient brood.

Also I am unaware of any moves for any
of these disobedient children to rejoin
Mother England's family despite
the clear and indisputable largess that such
a move would entail :) How ungrateful
can they be.

Ignore the lies, manipulation it is time for
Scotland to regain it's rightful place in
the league of nations.

The Empire is long dead - England might be in denial, but let's not have Scotland continue
to pay for the delusion.

31

Skirvy,

Auld Reek 22/04/2007 02:57:06

Buchanan, You related to Roy Buchanan.lol He's a legend man anyways.

The difference between them countries and us was England conquered them by force or found them, they never conquered Scotland by force. We were sold out by greedy politicians, lords, nobles ect...

32

Buchanan,

California 22/04/2007 03:11:02

Skirvy, yep exactly correct we did become part of Mother England via a different route, but I guess not any more pleasant. Looks like the same greedy politicians are still trying to sell us out - must have strong genes to have survived so many generations. More likely it is via in-breading since their arguments more and more seem increasingly irrational in their
attempts to justify their glorious Union.

Nope, afraid I'm no relation to Roy Buchanan - I'm
a recent California import from Perth.

33

Skirvy,

Auld Reek 22/04/2007 03:17:55

yep, Its to do with Labour's vote in Scotland for the general election. If Scotland becomes independent then Labour cease to exist, well in England anyway. Thats why the torries don't care, if they lose Scotland its no big deal, infact its a blessing they'll be in power for the next 100 years. I feel sorry for the Northern Englanders in Newcastle, Manchester, Liverpool ect... there going to go back to the Thatcher years. Thats the only reason if there is one why we should have a union because the working class people of Scotland and England should stick together. But I have to be selfish and say its better for our country as a whole if we were to become independent.

34

Barry Donald Scarfe,

22/04/2007 03:21:01

Buchannan. What has this election campaign got to do with an American from California? Stay out of our elections! By the way, there are many 'foreign' English people in Scotland living contented lives that is until know nothings like Mel Gibson decided to stir-up crap!

35

Buchanan,

California 22/04/2007 03:22:27

Skirvy - we could always reclaim Northumbria & Cumbria :)

36

,

22/04/2007 03:26:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

,

22/04/2007 03:34:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
38

,

22/04/2007 03:35:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
39

Buchanan,

California 22/04/2007 03:41:43

Barry Donald Scarfe

Well that was a some what bigoted comment.

By the way I was born and bred in Perth Scotland -
lived there for 27 years until I was forced out as
part of the Scottish brain drain due to England taking over and destroying Scottish companies. I could have move to London where my job went, but thought California might be a bit preferable :)
As far as I have traced back my history all of my relatives are also Scottish so most likely I am probably at least or potentially even more Scottish than your self, so I would suggested you stick that in your pipe an smoke it :)

40

Buchanan,

California 22/04/2007 03:42:47

a proud doonhamer - Appreciate the support.

41

Barry Donald Scarfe,

22/04/2007 03:48:45

Mr Bliar is an utterly repulsive and evil man I totally agree with you there but he is the PM of the United Kingdom so he is entitled to campaign in Scotland as he is any other part of Britain. Mr Cameron is also entitled to do so as well. By the way, you may be surprised at this but those of us who live in the rest of the United Kingdom hate Bliar just as much as you do.

42

Barry Donald Scarfe,

22/04/2007 03:51:04

Buchannan, Scotland is not a part of 'Mother England'. It is a part of the United Kingdom.

43

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 22/04/2007 03:51:09

Thank you #32 from California,via Perth.

I emigrated many years ago. Having been born in Scotland educated in Scotland and even still doing some business in Scotland.
Is not enough to deserve one the right to an opinion on Scotlands future.
According to #36. Yeah right.

Thank you. Roll on the election..

44

Barry Donald Scarfe,

22/04/2007 03:54:45

Skirvy, the SNP doesn't support REAL independence. They are EU Unionists. They want 'indpendence' in the EU. With the direction France seems to be heading in with its constant drift to the right I wouldn't be at all surprised if the EU imploded within the next few years.

45

,

22/04/2007 03:57:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 549762, Article id was mapped to record!
46

Buchanan,

California 22/04/2007 03:58:02

Barry Donald Scarfe

Duh - 'Mother England'. == "United Kingdom',
but perhaps you are too bigoted to realize that truism.

And by the way Mel Gibson is Australian and not Californian. He is also a bigot so you might want to
become a pen-pal.

47

Barry Donald Scarfe,

22/04/2007 04:06:49

You are a bigot, Buchannan. The United Kingdom consists of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It doesn't consist of England alone, does it?

48

AlanSmart,

22/04/2007 04:11:36

wATCH THIS TO SEE WHO IS ANTI SCOTTISH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuvLVXXKt6I

49

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 04:19:08

49 - Barry Donald Scarfe

You targets leave readers somewhat confused as to your beliefs and loyalties.

Can you explain to us where you stand politically rather than trot out geographical truisms.

LA

50

hughie 2,

22/04/2007 04:20:51

41. Buchanan, California Could not agree more, and my family and I have all had to move with the brain drain, and yes it was all caused bye the English moving jobs south of the border,
They were just protecting their economy ( The English bit that is)
The English poiticians dont give a damb for the Scots,,
Yes they like OUR OIL, and they like to have our Soldiers fighting their wars of conquest "For the Empire"

Better that than have the Scots fighting the English, eh?
I think all the Quislings no matter where they live should butt out of Scottish politics ,
The bottom line is the Scottish people have been shafted throughout history
Mostly by the English and those who have been conned by them or sold out to them.
We just want our yes
OUR country back
OUR self detemination back
OUR pride back.
and if you supporters of English domination and labour party incompetence dont like go
to. **LL or worse go and live in London.
And a final thought in the first few years of independence its ok to make a few maistakes along the way or even fall down as long as we can get back up and
dust ourselves off
and get on with the the job,
Yes at least they will be our mistakes not some foisted on us from London. where we just get the PAIN....

Yes Scotland can be
and should be independent.

Hugh C Gray JP C/Dec

51

Buchanan,

California 22/04/2007 04:23:16

Barry Donald Scarfe

That could be your one mistake - yes the United Kingdom does consist of England alone in all practical terms. It happens to surround itself and hangs on like grim death to its remaining accoutrements of an Empire which long since died, namely Wales, Scotland and the bit of Ireland they
should have let go already.

Now your realize your mistake perhaps you can
be a bit more rational going forward. England can
and should prosper in whatever direction it
wishes to take.
Britain, United Kingdom, The English Motherland whatever you want to call it, it is no more real than any other mythical beast so let's stop wasting time discussing it. Let Scotland go it's own direction we have no sympathy, empathy with England, we are our own people with our own values
and distinct path to the future.

52

Barry Donald Scarfe,

22/04/2007 04:34:55

Hughie 2, some of that oil doesn't belong to Scotland and the reason why Scottish soldiers have always been so predominant in the British Army is because they make bloody excellent soldiers. Why put them down like you do? It's something Scotland should be very proud of.

53

Willie Macleod,

Wick 22/04/2007 04:37:50

We have to get away from all this Nationalism, Patriotism , be it Scottish or British ,if we are to solve the problems we face as a planet. Our common humanity transcends such self indulgence.We need urgent action on Global poverty,Darfur, Climate change to name but a few.This sterile debate about borders is irrelevant

54

Barry Donald Scarfe,

22/04/2007 04:37:58

Buchannan, what in the hell are you going on about? Scotland is a part of the United Kingdom just as England is just as Wales and Northern Ireland are. Northern Ireland by the way wants to stay a part of it and let's face some facts here if they were to be 'united' with the Repubic then there would be bloodshed or quite a lot of discrimination as there was in the Irish Free State after independence. This is an historical fact.

Scotland is an important part of the United Kingdom. It's nobody's 'colony'. Don't put Scotland down.

55

Barry Donald Scarfe,

22/04/2007 04:43:10

Re. 51. I live in England but I consider my nationalilty to be British as I have some Welsh ancestry so in that sense I am like a lot of whites in Britain something of a 'mixed breed' and I am a Unionist.

56

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 04:44:06

54 - BDF

Exactly where did you get the impression Hughie is demeaning Scottish soldiers?

LA

57

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 04:46:43

57 - BDF
Thank you for explaining. Internet communication can be a minefield when posts are read out of context.

So, you are a Unionist and you live in England but claim some Celtic blood as evidence of insight. What have you to say to those who argue Scotland was a self-governing country and can be again?

LA

58

Guga,

Rockall 22/04/2007 05:00:56

Why is an article about Alex Salmond headed by a picture of Broon and wee Joke McConnell?

Who, exactly, is outraged by Alex Salmond's statemants, other than the unionist who wrote the article headline?

What Alex Salmond said is not anti-English; he is criticising the New Labour numpties, the Tories and the Whigs, but especially the numpties. They are always trying to drag Scotland down by implying that we are an economic basket case (presumably due to their economic mismanagement) and are incapable of looking after ourselves.

They are anti-Scottish, and would prefer us to stay as a colony, with no say in our future. They continue to run Scotland down, and try to put the frighteners on people, purely for their own benefit. They are so desperate to stay in power that they continue with their lies and deceit.

If there is any outrage, it is by the Scottish people who are fed up with the numpties continually besmirching Scotland.

As for the 13% in the poll that would like to scrap devolution, that seems to tie in well with the 12% that would vote for the Tories. A leopard never changes its spots.

Roll on May the 3rd, so we can finally get shot of all the unionists.

Saor Alba.

59

Buchanan,

California 22/04/2007 05:09:29

Barry Donald Scarfe

Wrong Wrong Wrong

Scotland is a colony - has been continually treated as one by England. We are dragged into English wars, England continues to steal our resources both natural and people. We fund England's pathetic delusion to still be a world power by paying for Trident, Unjustified Wars, pathetic phallic posturing such as the Millenium dome, disproportional armies, a sad and dated monarchy. Scotland never willingly joined with England and the so called Act of Union has been broken so many times it is nothing but a joke. Even your national anthem does not hide
the inherent oppression of the Scots. The original words which I am sure were heartfelt , and for you
probably still are, set the tone of our colonization.

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King. (now Queen I guess)

I'm sure Northern Ireland does want to stay part of
your Unionist dream- at least all of the Orange Bigots which clearly have a close affinity with you. Why don't you guys just let those who don't want to be part of your Greater England go then you can realize your desire to resurrect the glory of Mother England.

All the best in your efforts - just don't drag Scotland down with you.


and will continue to be as long as we are
part of some

60

Richardinho,

22/04/2007 05:15:24

unbelievable fake fury here!

Wee Jack reminds me of those football fans who don't mind shouting the most foul abuse at players, but when the player turns round and gives a gesture they go into a lather of self righteous moralising.

Seems to me if jack cannae take it, perhaps he shouldn't give it out.

61

I'm no really here,

22/04/2007 05:16:21

What do you call the only political party in the world that tells it's people that they cannot survive on their own, they cannot be a Nation on their own, that they are incapable of running their own affairs??

You call it SCOTTISH LABOUR.

Of course they are anti-scottish. Well said Alex Salmond.

Again, a smear campaign by Labour. It was Scottish Labour that Alex Salmond called anti-Scottish, not the voters. But then again lies have never stopped Labour, either in Scotland, England, Iraq or Afghanistan.

62

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 05:16:57

61 - Buchanan

I differ with your reference to the Millenium Dome as "phallic posturing." Dutch cap would be nearer the truth.

LA

63

Flabskin,

Badfort 22/04/2007 05:17:47

Of all the phoney articles I have ever read in any newspaper, this contrived piece of drivelling opinion masquerading as news ranks up there with the best.

It would shame the Daily Record.

64

Finnking,

Finland 22/04/2007 05:20:04

EDDIE BARNES

Come on Eddie, we demand a far, far better quality of propaganda than that!

The anti- Scotland Scotsman? Alienating it's customers, reducing its advertising revenue.

65

The Daleks,

22/04/2007 05:23:51

Alex is 100% right.

I'm sick to the back teeth of self-hating Scots, who would knock their own folk at every turn around.

Are you insane in the brain?

Are the Latvians, Slovaks, and the folk from Bhutan so much, much, better than us, that they can sucessfully run their own affairs, with a hell of a lot less land and resources than Scotland, but for some bizzare reason we can't?

Scotland was a success as an indepenent nation before,and will be again.

Hang your heads very low in shame, you Scottish gainsayers.

You truly make my blood boil.

66

Buchanan,

California 22/04/2007 05:26:03

LA - I stand corrected 'Dutch Cap' is much more appropriate :)

If you are ever in San Fran would be good to meet you.

67

The Daleks,

22/04/2007 05:32:59

#5 Name.

I do my best not to knock folk for their point's of view on this forum.

Everyone is entitled to a say.

But you are bang out of order.

You are really plumbing the depths of thoughtless numptyism.

Sod off halfwit.

68

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 05:45:38

63 - INRH

Scotlan's detractors might be better engaged debating specific problems that will frustrate Scottish ambition.

For example, our promise to join the EEC depends entirely on the membership of the EEC welcoming us in. I can think of a few European countries that will balk at getting slapped over the face with a wet fish, so to speak, when told they cannot exploit Scottish waters anymore. They won't be pleased to be told we are still fuming about the loss of 1,000 fishing boats, market and service industry, to make way for EEC fishermen.

Then there is Spain; a great country, good enough for many Englishmen to toss off the weight of their own land and call it home. They usually say they won't return because our weather is so foul. (If that's not moaning, what is?) However, the Spanish will be slow to support us, a small country, and provide encouragement to the Basque region to rise again.

I have no wish to give ammunition to professional demoralisers, but if they addressed impediments that certainly lie ahead rationally with a benign attitude, a maturity, they might just get somewhere.

Too much to ask, I think.

In any event, there is something very sad and embarrassing about two Scots leading one land determined not to allow their own kith and kin a similar kingdom. It is as if they are unwilling to sacrifice personal ambition for the sake of the greater good.

But I could be wrong.

LA

69

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 05:47:34

68 - Buchanan

Thank you. I'll take you up on that. (I was there last month.)

As far as phallic posturing is concerned we can point to Foster's giant cucumber, or is it pickle?

LA

70

,

22/04/2007 05:51:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 549849, Article id was mapped to record!
71

Bill, Dunblane,

22/04/2007 05:52:40

Eddie Barnes - yer jaiket's on a shoogly nail son!

Journalist?

72

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 05:54:59

72 - ALBA GU BRATH

Let us not stoop to their level for we leave our own arseholes open to attack. Instead, let us instead refer to them as "the taint." The taint is the small area between the sewer and the drain. The lowest of the low Unionists are "tainted."

LA

73

jaw,

22/04/2007 05:58:35

I would like to ask all you people what is the good points about voting SNP, as thats all we hear, but mainly what would be the bad points of having SNP running Scotland?

74

Finnking,

Finland 22/04/2007 05:59:34
75

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 06:06:40

75 - JAW

If the SNP blot their copy book they get voted out. They will evolve as the years go by whether they convince the people of Scotland to vote for independence. And if they are successful the other parties will adapt too because they must accept the will of the people or be disenfranchised. They will choose to take their place in a new Scotland.

76

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 06:08:20

71 - and 68

I'm told it is a gherkin. Very apt.

LA

77

Finnking,

Finland 22/04/2007 06:12:51

LA

Re the EU question: I am amazed that the Euro is doing so well without the UK joining in. The € nation states will certainly welcome scotland as an independent entity within the EU. The others have no reason not to welcome scotland in. Also, you could say that is already there. Beyond some legalistic bull it's simply a change in name.

From my experiences of travel and living in 'mainland' europe, those who know about scotland are highly positive about the place. This posititive view is not simply the usual 'kilts and caber and whisky' view but an opinion on the people/society too.

My opinion is that an independent Scotland should view the european question in the same manner as Norway (retain own currency) until the social improvements have been achieved. (set our own rates etc). Norway is doing very very well on the social front, is part of the EU but not in the € zone at the moment.

78

GrahamH,

22/04/2007 06:15:01

Isn't there outrage every time Labour say SNP are anti British with equal number of people in Scotland?

What a scoop by Scotsman, "political party says something for votes in election campaign"! Pathetic.

79

Marian,

Edinburgh 22/04/2007 06:21:28

It is clear now that devolution has failed Scotland because the Scots clones of the Westminster based political parties want us to simply accept and copy unquestionably the model they have adopted for England and from that point of view it is indisputable that they have not placed Scotland first. The clones of these Westminster parties don't have any separate plans uniquely tailored for improving Scotland's economy to ensure that Scots may prosper and again from that point of view it is indisputable that they have not placed Scotland first. Gordon Brown of New Labour simply wants us to accept more of the same economic policies that he has tailored to keeping the speculators and financiers happy of Western Europe's most centralised economy based which is based in the UK in the City of London. For a while a sea of debt has managed to keep the UK financially afloat but more due to his inheritance, and by luck than by design. In the meantime Gordon Brown has done nothing separately and uniquely for the good of the economy of Scotland. Now however due to these policies of his to suit the City of London, we have a poisonous and ultimately fatal mix of the ingredients of too much borrowing, too little saving, inflation, climbing interest rates, over-valued £, and increasing unemployment within the UK which are altogether going to ensure that this New Labour created artificial bubble is about to burst hitting Scotland severely irrespective of whether it contributed to it or not. There is a very hard-hitting analysis http://business.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2061688,0... stating exactly what is ging to happen in 20 April Guardian online - a New Labour supporting newspaper. Scotland desperately needs to find a way out of being dragged down with captain Brown's sinking ship when the forthcoming economic storm hits the UK. Lowering taxation on private businesses will stimulate and su

80

Mrs Miggins,

Madrid 22/04/2007 06:27:06

Salmond is totally correct. New Labour's policy has been to say "Scotland can't"..."Scotland won't"...who are these people? How do they have the temerity to tell us that we can't be an independent country like Ireland or Denmark? Another thing is if most of us want that scenario, but what is clear is that the Labour campaign has been very badly conceived because it is based on insult and an attempt to demoralise the swing nationalist vote. Why would they fight these elections on the question of the Union and independence? Possibly because they don't have any other policies? Salmond, get intae them!

81

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 06:30:21

79 - Finnking

I hope you are right. Norway is a good example of how to run a small country well. (Food is too expensive.) Awarding the Nobel Peace Prize, for example, reminds the world of its humanitarian obligations ... and exactly where Norway is and stands.

Did you know that they have their own movie industry and producers are guaranteed the largest share of box office? Government funded to ensure Norwegian culture, myths and stories, get represented in celluloid, the exponents of film are given work and the chance to develop their craft. They make an average of ten features a year. In comparison Scotland is lucky if it gets one every two years - courtesy of Chanel Four Television - and when one is made (usually about angst ridden youth) newspapers proudly proclaim a new Messiah ... who promptly packs bags and heads for south for fame and film funds.

LA
(Sorry or my late night typos)

82

Steve,

Bo'ness 22/04/2007 06:32:36

Which party orders the saltire to be taken down at polling stations? LABOUR.
Which party puts all of its efforts into persuading the Scots they cant afford to be independent? LABOUR
Which party has the most to lose by building self confidence in Scotland? LABOUR.

So Alex Salmond, it seems you are 100% right.
Labour are traitors, and for their own narrows ends.

83

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 06:39:05

84 - STEVE

Is that true? Does Labour demand the Saltire removed? is that legal?

LA

84

John S,

22/04/2007 06:43:11

#83 (LA) can I add about Norway -
Norway, salts most of its oil and gas revenues in a long-term equity fund, now worth around £150 billion, the income from which is being dedicated to paying Norwegian pensions.

85

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 06:53:21

86 - JOHN S

For a country half-unusable because it's packed with ice, and little if any arable land to sustain large scale farming, Norway is the elk's knees. It doesnt, I believe, sustain a large population from bordering countries, a group that could be at odds with its soveriegn rights and title.

LA

86

The Daleks,

22/04/2007 06:54:07

And on that theme.

Barry Donald Skunk.

Various postings.

Muppetry writ large.

At posting #43 you actually admit that you don't even live in Scotland, and may thus not even be a Scot.

Why don't you sod off too.

I've really had enough of you balloons, and that includes both "KY" (Aye right!!), and that other clown AM whatever.

Shut up, and go back to whatever travelling circus you defected from.

87

Boy Wonder,

22/04/2007 06:58:26

My, my, my. What interesting furies on the forum this morning. What sticks out??

Well, it strikes me that every time a politician opens his/her mouth to declaim "Scotland can't go it alone!" - yes, that is somewhat unpatriotic and if you said that to James III or IV, you'd've lost your head for it! It actually borders on treason the more and the louder you go on about it!

Of course Scotland can be an Independant nation, going it alone. We might struggle a bit. We might even fail - but that is up to the people living in the country and how they go about it.

Mr McConnell, Nicol Stephen and your parties - do you WANT us to fail?? Because it seems that you do. So much so, you're not even willing to let us try. Don't you know that every infant has to learn to crawl, then stand on its own two feet, walk and the run?? All we want to do is similar to that. Are you saying it is imposible for us to do so?? If so, then you are denying us the right to choose for ourselves. Another human thing we all must do at some point!

New Labour expect the vote of the people from the "lower poorer classes" to keep them in power. Why? They are even poorer now as the rich/poor divide grows daily. More kids live in relative poverty than before. Even two working parents struggle to make ends meet in our so-called "affluent society". In other words, New Labour has failed not one, but TWO generations of Scots and if you won't change, we must!!

Tories are also rans, a bust flush, the same as they've always been. They'll smile at you as they stick it to you at the same time. Completely untrustworthy.

The Libdems are what they are I suppose. The hummers-and-hawers of the community. The "let's discuss this at a meeting about setting up a meeting" kind that get nothing done, and sleep with your wife/husband while you're out driving the community bus! And they'll talk behind your back to get what they want.

And

88

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:06:32

88 - The Daleks

Keep your powder dry for the enemy we can't see. For a start, they will never identify themselves. If American interests don't coincide with Scottish independence, such as refueling planes ferrying "war" prisoners to torture camps, the CIA will soon be around hatching mischief.

AM-Squared may be busy standing for election in one of the One-Candidate, One-Issue, One-Buttered Scone group of hopefuls.

I think it is the Cut 'n Paste Party.

LA

89

John S,

22/04/2007 07:09:04

#87 (LA) - Norway is used as a comparison as to what Scotland could have been but it was the Labour Government (1975) who prevented Scotland from being a wealthy nation by burying in a Westminster vault for 30 years a report by Professor Gavin McCrone

Thirty years ago, McCrone's conclusions shocked his political masters. An independent Scotland's Budget surpluses, wrote McCrone, would be so large as to be "embarrassing". Scotland's currency "would become the hardest in Europe with the exception of the Norwegian kronor".

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4238744.stm

90

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:12:48

89 - BOY WONDER


Mel Gibson IS Mad Max.

Did you know his Wallace was the only man to own a razor in his day?

LA

91

david team,

22/04/2007 07:13:56

salmond is a SLIP self important little p···

92

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:15:27

93 - DAVID TEAM

Proclaims himself NOT a team player. And his "slip" is showing.

LA

93

david team,

22/04/2007 07:16:07

hughie 2 ? silly man

94

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:19:12

LA's SUNDAY THOUGHT...

Aye, an English politician's love is like the morning dew; it can settle on a dog turd as easily as a on a rose.

LA

95

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:21:38

96 - RULESBUTNOTFEET

"SNP coming to resemble their single policy" ... which is ... ?

LA

96

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:23:05

95 - DAVID MEAT

Sorry, old chap, "Hughie 2 ? silly man" is not a sentence.

LA

97

Encephalon,

22/04/2007 07:24:01

"Chancellor Gordon Brown declared in Edinburgh yesterday that the campaign had reached "a moment of truth".


Labour would not recognise truth if it kicked them in the jacksie!

Lovely photo-99 red balloons plus two !

98

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:26:13

100 - ENCEPHALON

They can't HANDLE the truth!

Where have I heard that phrase before?

LA

99

Tweedmouth,

22/04/2007 07:27:37

THERE'S NO GODS
By Vrian McNeill

I was listening to the news the other day
I heard a fat politician who had the nerve to say
He was proud to be Scottish, by the way
With the glories of our past to remember
"Here's tae us, wha's like us", listen to the cry
No surrender to the truth and here's the reason why
The power and the glory's just another bloody lie
They use to keep us all in line

For there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o the leal
And it's time now to sweep the future clear
Of the lies of a past that we know was never real

Farewell to the heather in the glen
They cleared us off once and they'd do it all again
For they still prefer sheep to thinking men
Ah, but men who think like sheep are even better
There's nothing much to choose between the old laird and the new
They still don't give a damn for the likes of me and you
Just mind you pay your rent to the factor when it's due
And mind your bloody manners when you pay!

And tell me will we never hear the end
Of puir bluidy Charlie at Culloden yet again?
Though he ran like a rabbit down the glen
Leavin better folk than him to be butchered
Or are you sittin in your Council house, dreamin o your clan?
Waiting for the Jacobites to come and free the land?
Try going down the broo with your claymore in your hand
And count all the Princes in the queue!

So don't talk to me of Scotland the Brave
For if we don't fight soon there'll be nothing left to save
Or would you rather stand and watch them dig your grave
While you wait for the Tartan Messiah?
He'll lead us to the Promised Land with laughter in his eye
We'll all live on the oil and the whisky by and by
Free heavy beer! Pie suppers in the sky! -
Will we never have the sense to learn?

That there's no gods and th

100

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:27:53

101 - JOE

You don't "turn on" a newspaper. You turn on a radio. Or if you get lucky, a woman. Doh!

LA

101

Kenny A,

Scotland 22/04/2007 07:30:31

#5, #43

Pair of you need to get a grip.

#61

Words were written by a Scotsman, mainly anti-jacobite, Highlander sentiments.

#92

Always thought he had a beard, touch puzzeled on this one.

#93

Sorry smart man, as are many in all parties, to smart for my liking most of them.

#96

Think all parties are a bit desperate.

102

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:31:13

104 - JOE

Hold on, Joe!

I think you can turn on a sixpence. And I'm told you can turn on the charm. But no one has heard of how to turn on a newspaper.

LA

103

Calum Crubag,

22/04/2007 07:32:22

#25- yeah i too have noticed less chance to comment and more pay-for articles. Fact is, most of us are only here cos it's free. Most of us aren't gonna pay to read blatant Labour/Unionist propaganda thinnly dressed as 'news'.

As to the 'story', well Labour's campaign has been negative from the off - demonising any idea that Scotland could go it alone. Credit at least to the Tories and Libdems who at least say 'Scotland could do it alone, we just don't want it'.

Does Labour's reasoning extend to ALL Scots who want to do things for themselves... businesspeople, sports stars, musicians... maye Scotland's football team hasn't really made it to the top 20 rankings, maybe Andy Murray is doomed to failure... because he's Scottish?

We can do it. Let's go for it. Saor Alba.

104

Roy,

22/04/2007 07:33:32

What Salmond has just said, I've been saying for some time.

Labour's campaign is not just vitriol against the SNP. That you would expect. But for weeks it has been slagging the whole of Scotland and everyone who lives here. It has basically been saying 'yer aw schum, cannae dae nuffin fur yersels, need yer mamy tae wipe yer erse.' (With apologies agin to Rab C Nesbitt.)

The SNP is totally positive about Scotland and the possibilities for creating a better country for the future.

Labour in particular, but also the Tories and the FibDems, are negative about Scotland and low on aspiration. Labour has been doing down Scotland and its people down with its scaremonering and gloom 'n' doom since it discovered it was on the ropes.

I know who I'll be backing.

105

Labour voter,

22/04/2007 07:34:15

Did anyone see the scottish news on Friday evening when westminster locals were being asked about the scottish elections? One would-like-to-be snob said "I know nothing about Scottish elections, are they allowed to vote?" I've been debating on who to vote for on May 3rd, but after seeing that ignoramus
I've made up my mind. This lady's for turning.

106

Guga,

Rockall 22/04/2007 07:36:23

#96 I'll bet you even know your party membership number off by heart.

107

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:40:16

109 - LABOUR VOTER

Ouch! What a duffus.

He must have converted a few hundred with that remark. I once heard a very successful English film producer say of a Scottish film project, "Who the hell wants to see a Scottish costume epic?" one year before two took the world by storm. I wonder what he'd make of "The Last King of Scotland"? A useless question; he's not in the industry these days.

LA

108

donald,

weegieland 22/04/2007 07:41:32

"Anti Scottish Party Complain about Pro Scottish Party being allowed to answer back".

'Northbritishperson' headline!

109

Calum Crubag,

22/04/2007 07:44:21

The English don't want us either and judging by the amound of inter-switching between English Labour and the BNP, i don't want them.
http://radgedug.blogspot.com/

110

Encephalon,

22/04/2007 07:44:43

#101 "Strange how SNP supporters turn on
newspapers who are not writing what they want to read?"

Not exactly short of choice to "turn on" are they?-Apart from the Tory national papers our own The Herald, Scotsman (sic) and the Record and Sun at the trashy comics end of the market are all very much anti-SNP.

Makes you wonder what the SNP would be polling if it even enjoyed a fair representation in the media!

111

Kenny A,

Scotland 22/04/2007 07:45:49

#109

Interesting, had a similar experience years ago, when at a function, some snob, for want of a better word, was so pleased to meet me as I was obviously one of the few people to have ever left my tiny Island.

The Island in question is not important as trends tend to be similar, but as most of us have either been to Sea, the forces or have been ex-pats, or all three at some stage, it showed a stunning ignorance, even if it was not ment in an insulting manner.

Not just South of the border is there a lack of knowledge regarding Scotland but also in Wales, the Irish are a bit more genned up, but when it comes to a Union of nations I cannot see it in practice. Pretty sure a lot of Scots are equaly in the dark regarding other countries as well.

112

,

22/04/2007 07:50:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
113

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:52:10

Almost 1am here.

I hope you realise its fine chaps like me who keep these columns safe at night sacrificing our sleep to ensure threads are free of unhealthy, unhelpful anti-Scots verbiage and scurrilous innuendo?

I could easily be feeding my intellect watching soap or reality TV instead of standing watch - okak, sitting - for hours typing smart-ass quips to Internet psychopaths.

And what do diehards like me get for our effort? Sore fingers, that's what we get.

LA

114

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 07:55:45

I am as frustrated with the Union as a beaver in a petrified forest!

LA

115

Alba gu brath,

Tartan Oil & Gas Platform 22/04/2007 07:55:59

OK LA #74 You're right I should't dispense with the bougeios pleasentries even when refering to the perfidious Scottish unionist's.
Because the opinion of an idiot (#5 in particular) count's for nothing!!

116

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 08:00:39

119 - ALBA GU BRATH

Well done. Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes.

Remember, the Labour Party is so corrupt even its dishonest members get screwed.

LA

117

IWright,

22/04/2007 08:02:24

Another disgraceful piece of "journalism" by SoS. There is nothing "outrageous" in Mr. Salmond's comments, he is not saying what SoS claim he is saying including the word anti-Scottish which the SoS puts in quotation marks. You are playing with fire SoS, if you and the rest of the Scottish media sabotage these elections then have you thought through the consequences for Scottish democracy?

118

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 08:04:10

I looked up "Labour Politics" in the dictionary and it means: "Labour" - a painful period in the process of giving birth; "poli," which means "many," and "tics," which means "bloodsuckers."

LA

119

Cadgers,

Perth 22/04/2007 08:09:11

#39&40 Hee hee a proud doonhamer Good ones!!

120

,

22/04/2007 08:20:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
121

John Jamieson,

Edinburgh 22/04/2007 08:29:04

The McCrone report on North Sea oil said that Scotland would be in a position to lend heavily to England and "this situation could last for a very long time into the future."
The government lied to us then, put the oil revenue in the UK current account when it could have been in Scotland's capital account earning income for future generations. How much has this cost every Scottish family ?
Why should we believe anything that Labour tells us now ?

122

Cooooooo,

Gelly 22/04/2007 08:29:28

Sad hack journalism from this sad institution, nothing more needs to be added, other than wish the Hootsmon a speedy death - hopefully not too much suffering.

123

frank mcbride,

lusitania 22/04/2007 08:30:43

So now we know for certain.

Vote Labour for more of the same. A more unfair Scotland!!!

OR

VOTE SNP FOR A FAIRER AND MORE PROSPEROUS SCOTLAND.

SNP 1, 2, 3. ON 3 MAY.


BTW the Scarfe person is BNP - read his posts from previous threads. - Need I say more!!!

124

langtonian,

scotus 22/04/2007 08:34:44

#27 As postings go your's is pathetic,I take it from
the indications you are on the FAR Right of the fascist party,when you look in the mirror you see the face of a potentially,physcopathetic NAZI.You dress all in black. Complete with jackboots and swastika representing your motives all to clearly,while you pop of to your days work, murdering any one you did not understand, in a state of the art gas chamber
It goes without saying that none of the mainstream parties would wish to be assosciated IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM with your anti- human#27 posting

125

Hamilton,

22/04/2007 08:35:25

#81: Marian in Edinburgh, you say that Scotland desperately needs to find a way out of escaping the global economic storm that will hit the UK. Not easy!

The link to the article in the Guardian was broken. Here it is again: http://business.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2061688,0... The responses were interesting - especially the one suggesting that national democracy encourages short term economic solutions but long term disaster, and another that said 1929 (Great Depression) was returning.

126

frank mcbride,

lusitania 22/04/2007 08:35:42

Watch out people!!!

It looks like we are in for a an avalanche of BNP bile.

Scarfe & freedom4whites are only the vanguard.

127

Cadgers,

Perth 22/04/2007 08:37:09

#124 I'm sure the Maori's just love you...........

128

Kenny A,

Scotland 22/04/2007 08:38:10

#124

What are the Ethnic Scots, the ones from Ireland in the 7th Centuary. The inhabitants of the borders who are more closly related to the English no offense intended to anyone (big mixture there), the Welsh, South Western Scotland, the Norse most of the North and West or the Picts.

Some people of assorted colours in Scotland for a long, long time or do you mean newcomers in general, Indians, Pakistanies, Eastern Europeans etc.

129

langtonian,

scotus 22/04/2007 08:38:46

#27 As postings go your's is pathetic,I take it from
the indications you are on the FAR Right of the fascist party,when you look in the mirror you see the face of a potentially,physcopathetic NAZI.You dress all in black. Complete with jackboots and swastika representing your motives all to clearly,while you pop of to your days work, murdering any one you did not understand, in a state of the art gas chamber
It goes without saying that none of the mainstream parties would wish to be assosciated IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM with your anti- human#27 posting

130

Dennis,

North Isles 22/04/2007 08:39:37

124 you point up the underlying flaw in Nationalism very well indeed.

131

LA,

22/04/2007 08:40:32

127 - AM-Squared

He's back. Time to go. My pizza delivery man get the message quicker than that guy.

LA

132

Blairs,

The Maghreb 22/04/2007 08:40:39

#52 - Quislings, Scotland's oil... is that it?

Numerous other personal attacks throughout the postings, basically stating that if you don't vote SNP then you are not entitled to an opinion.

That said, the level of "debate" (peurile name calling really) is really all an article of this depth deserves anyway.

Tolerance for all in the new Scotland? That'll be the day.

133

Stuart Elsey,

Aberdeen 22/04/2007 08:41:25

Labour get more and more like a team that visits Ibrox or Parkhead- ultra defensive and negative in the hope that their defeat aint as bad as they fear.

What's happened to people like Andy Kerr (in the supposed safe seat of East Kilbride) in this campaign? I aint seen him - surely he's not going to be one of the many victims of May 3rd?

This has a 1997 look about it- Labour may lose seats galore to the SNP, Lib Dems and the Tories.

134

Kenny A,

Scotland 22/04/2007 08:42:25

#134

Sad case is 27, he has posted the exact same garbage in regard to other articals out today also.

Not worth reporting as it is so pathitic.

135

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News Room 22/04/2007 08:42:53

Sorry Jack, but.......

"The truth always hurts......."

and when your own country (rightly) rejects you it must hurt a lot more.....

Look at the company you keep, Broon, Blair, and a whole lot more - all 'has beens', who have little vison beyond their selfish and personal ambitions.

Scotland will be a better place without your dead hand on the tiller. Enjoy your new career in modelling pin stripe kilts........ somewhere....... anywhere, as long as it's not Scotland!

Roll on May 03rd

136

LA,

Los Angeles 22/04/2007 08:42:59

135 - Dennis

No, he doesn't. Don't be so patronising.

I shall leave you all to look for "the underlying flaw."

Till next time ...

LA

137

DSW,

Indonesia 22/04/2007 08:47:16

I haven't really agreed with all the Scotsman bashing that has appeared here recently - until NOW that is. Sorry Scotsman, but the headline bears little, if any, resemblance to the actual story - you blew it this time.

But how appropriate to use balloons as a background to those two other ballons - c'mon Scotland, the time is right, the time is now!

138

frank mcbride,

lusitania 22/04/2007 08:47:30

AM2

At it again, are you?

Only YOUR selected statistics are valid so, only these statistics can validate a stated viewpoint.

YOUR statistics have been regularly challenged and been found wanting.

Alex Salmond chooses to use yours and others and comes up with different conclusions which you dismiss, simply because you disagree with them.

As I have said before produce objective material if you wish to be taken seriously - not Westminster nor Holyrood statisics please. THESE have already been DISCREDITED: see McCrone inter alia.

139

Dennis,

North Isles 22/04/2007 08:47:52

137

So you've read this board then. The SNP spin doctors have not got around to pinning on the new 'friendly and tollerent' face to these footsoldiers. It was planned - but it became more difficult to do as they have to re-do Alex's make-over every morning and its taking all their time.

140

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 22/04/2007 08:52:12

Eddie Barnes and Scotland on Sunday... What's inflammatory about the TRUTH?

141

Alistair Stewart,

Labour candidates facing arrest 22/04/2007 08:54:08

Labour candidates facing arrest

Word reaches of an incident in Lemington ward, Newcastle, scene of a Lib Dem bye-election win a few months back. A LD deliverer was out delivering letters when he was approached by a man and a woman who said they had been sent out by the agent to take over from him.

On returning to base, the deliverer explained what had happened, to the confusion of the agent who said no such instructions had been given. On describing the two people, the deliverer gave a description matching the two Labour candidates who, not being from the area, the deliverer didn't recognise. However he was soon able to identify them from a Labour leaflet.

The police have been called and are investigating. Any such investigation may not be good news for Labour's Antoine Tinnion, who is a practising barrister (and Oxford, Cambridge, and Harvard educated). The Law Society may not take too kindly to such activities.

Any further reports of Labour dirty tricks welcomed.

142

Publius,

Girvan 22/04/2007 08:56:08

#Buchanan
Buchanan doesn't tell us that he (and the other Anglos) in California have a good life stylle by exploiting Mexicans. Instead of interfering in our election, perpahs he should join with the Mexicans and help Mexico regain California.

143

Alistair Stewart,

Telegraph uncovers putrid obscenity of Labour 22/04/2007 08:57:39

Telegraph uncovers putrid obscenity of Labour sleaze

Documents published in today's Telegraph reveal for the first time how Labour's leaders were prepared to crawl on their bellies through the ordure of the gutter to pimp for the cash to keep them in power.

The second page of this noisome epistle states:


Major donors expect to be invited to No 10, if this cannot take place then income levels may be affected
No mention of 'suitable persons', no caveats about 'the dignity of the Prime Minister's official residence' - like a street prostitute caring only for the thickness of a punter's wallet and oblivious to the pustular sores that may be contracted from the encounter. It goes on say:

In addition it should be recognised that some donors were initially brought on board by being asked to play a role in the business strategy - thus flattering their desire to offer policy advice. Once they were involved it was possible to suggest other ways they could help the party.
How many Labour donors will this morning be feeling like dupes? How many will remember the encouraging smiles and nods as they proffered advice, and have believed until today that Labour was actually interested in what they had to say, rather than relaxing their suspicions before rifling their wallets?

144

Anne, Glasgow,

Glasgow 22/04/2007 08:58:05

I have listened repeatedly to Scottish Labour MPs, such as Douglas Alexander, talk Scotland down on current affair programmes. It is sickening to hear him talk about his own country in such a demeaning way. I suspect he isn't even aware that he is doing it, that he thinks it is for our own good. Why doesn't the Scotsman ever report this?

145

Publius,

Girvan 22/04/2007 08:59:03

P.S. Amercia does not stand on its own feet. It stands on Mexico's shoulders and on Iraq's corpses

146

morris,

Edinburgh 22/04/2007 09:00:09

Just because they buried the contents of the McCrone Report (which they would not have needed if they had been publishing the real figures for Scotland)and lied to us for thirty years,cost us our birthright,made fools of us and now expect us to return them to the gravy train does not in my opinion justify a claim of anti scottish. Now a guarantee that post independence they will all be arrested and tried for treason might be more appropriate! THESE PEOPLE ROBBED US! THEY ARE CRIMINALS in my eyes !Anti Scottish is far too polite!

147

Rob me blind,

22/04/2007 09:01:30

Its has been said before but you cannot have an Independent Scotland as part of the EU if you join that club they set the rules so come on Salmond start telling the truth.
How can anyone trust a man who is skiving off his work and openly looking for another job, I hope they have stopped paying him and his party office staff while he is touting for a new job.

148

malcolmcean,

22/04/2007 09:01:30

AM2:

'So-called "civic-national"'

The implication is that you think it is not.

As far as I can see, Salmond is attacking conepts he finds take an excessively negative view of Scotland's ability to make a go of independence in the same way other, similar sized countires have.

He finds that to be not an entirely positivist attitude toward Scotland. One could, therefore, reasonably call it 'anti-Scottish' (not a claim I would personally make given the value judgement some with lesser intellects would impose on it, and given that it is basically lazy short-hand for something else; which, incidentally Salmond actually aticulates).

I do find you, AM2, to be a desperately depressing charatcer. You obviously have a degree of wits (as perhaps does the writer of the rather silly article above) but choose to employ them in trolling these web boards articulating repetitive, Orwellian slogans (tax and turmoil, grudge and grienvance) in the hope they will convert people to your view.

Who is your target audience here? All evidence points to a high proportion of the audience being SNP supporters who betray no signs of a willingness to even consider supporting Labour. I think even you may recognise it is unlikely that you will convince them (in fact, your approach is more likely to confirm their anti-Labour prejudices - amoral spin, thinly disguised propoganda which insults their intelligence).

The question then is: why?

149

Rab McClair,

TOP OF THE WORLD 22/04/2007 09:02:47

#5 NAME
You are a cretin of a "man" if you're reduced to the ridiculous assumption that the SNP are anti all the groups you suggest.
You're simply a wee frustrated LOSER who canna get yer head roon' the fact that the scottish public have increasingly seen through the smoke and mirrors of those who advocate that "This Is As Good As It Gets, Folks".
Well, some of us have the b***s to push ahead to bigger and better things, and if you don't like it mate, move aside and let the rest of us get on with it......your odious inferences are not required !!!!

150

Upbeat,

22/04/2007 09:03:39

81 Marian.

This, your weird and illogical post , is pasted from yesterday's business section. There it received just two comments. Here is mine.


"If Scots continue to listen to the fairyland world pronouncements and policies of Gordon Brown and do not vote for the Scottish National Party on 3 May in order to save and better Scotland economically then they will will be flying in the face of all sound economic wisdom."

So according to your opinion all the economic wisdom rests with the SNP and all the other political parties are quite wrong and misguided.

Personally I am far more concerned about a political party that has produced a fiscal argument that does not add up. It has done this by quietly manipulating the figures it does actually have access to, to create an unreal and impossible surplus on the current account. ( more people in work in Scotland to pay taxes than have ever been in work... imagining that a greater percentage of British GNP is attributable to Scotland than can or has ever been proved to exist .)

When questioned about this" Black hole" the latest SNP excuse is that by July sometime, if in Government , the SNP hopes to have the real figures to work with, and will prepare a new set of fiscal projections for Scotland . Ones that by then the electorate will have no choice but to " stomach".

This " suck it and see ! " attitude to the responsibility of government has clearly attracted many... if the polls are to be believed. But it will completely fail to convince those whose everyday life requires predictability, certainty , and stability as guiding principles for their future expectations within Scotland.....Currently, I understand, these people account for about 60% of all voters, .

The SNP economic message is far too vague and 'wind blown' flexible to be believable.

151

morris,

Edinburgh 22/04/2007 09:04:16

151

The report was commissioned 30 odd years ago true ,but the con is still perepetuated today and theres still 50% of that oil revenue at stake.
The getting away with this for 30 years does NOT reduce his argument,it destroys YOURS!
Your logic would suggest that Adolf HItler is now innocent of the holocaust!

YOU KNOW WHERE THAT LEVEL OF THINKING BELONGS!

152

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 22/04/2007 09:08:24

AM2 #127 Salmon is a tried and tested, respected economist. What is your tried and tested career? You excel at pasting and posting from some unknown sources. Your craving to protect the Union is your case to defend. However like any good guerrilla you operate from secrecy and a murky background of darkness and innuendo. Like most guerrillas your initial training is important. Was your training influenced by your Northern Irish indoctrination? One statistic that is still outstanding is you inability, like your unionist colleagues, to answer questions. Go then, fool us all!

153

,

22/04/2007 09:08:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
154

Rab McClair,

TOP OF THE WORLD 22/04/2007 09:09:09

EDDIE BARNES
If you tell me what days you're free Eddie,I'll see if I can fix you up with some job interviews..........for something you CAN do this time.
They say a'body has a talent somewhere, but you're stretching that statement tae the limit.
Awa' an' work, ya mug ye !!
PS.. Maybe Clare prentice'll gie ye lessons in how tae write a genuinely thought provoking article....'cos a' you provoke in me is the boak !!

155

Alistair Stewart,

Meacher: 'Blair's Britain makes me sick' 22/04/2007 09:11:46

Tony Blair has created a "staggering degree of inequality" in Britain, perpetuated a culture of greed and undermined democracy, according to one of those vying to succeed him.


Michael Meacher: 'We now have four classes'


Michael Meacher, the former environment minister, now a Labour leadership candidate, said that society was more unequal now than at any time since the 1930s. A new class, the "mega rich", had been given unprecedented power and access to government by Mr Blair, who was himself obsessed by money, he claimed.

:: full text of article at ::

www.dont-vote-labour.co.uk

156

Rodster,

Glasgow 22/04/2007 09:13:18

This is the most hysterical rant yet from this newspaper or these failed Unioinst politicians ever .
These are the same bunch of chancers that have called their ain folk too ,stupid ,too weak and too poor for decades.
The same bunch of liars that have hidden reports like the McRone report on Scotland's wealth , lied about WMD ,lies that inevitably led to hundreds of thousands of deaths .
Deaths of young Scotsmen and women in the armed forces because of their lies and complicity.
They have mailigned and decried anyone that has tried to stand up for Scotland ,even tried to deny Scotland's favourite son Sean Connery of his deserved knighthood vbeause of his politics.
Now they moan because of Alex Salmoonds mild comments.
I would go a lot further , I would call those Scottish Labour Unioinists ,TRAITORS < QUISLINGS THIEVES AND LIARS>

157

,

22/04/2007 09:13:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
158

Craig Cockburn,

Scotland 22/04/2007 09:14:34

Dear Scotsman

In light of your constant miserable attempts to derail the highly successful SNP campaign, the best campaign of this election and the best campaign ever by the SNP your increasingly desperate stance simply shows how out of touch you are with the Scottish people who want to see the SNP in power. This is a separate issue to how you would vote in a referendum 4 years later. Your continued unionist stance reminds me of the Tories in the run up to devolution referendum - always saying no because your masters told you to. Wake up to the Scottish people's option or else be done with it and call yourself the North British Labour party newsletter.

159

Alistair Stewart,

Labour backer speaks out for Alex Salmond 22/04/2007 09:14:54

Labour backer speaks out for Alex Salmond


A prominent Labour supporter has heaped generous praise on Nationalist leader Alex Salmond as a potential First Minister.

Brian Dempsey, who was Scottish Labour's biggest individual donor at the election eight years ago, yesterday issued a statement saying he had "no hesitation in saying Alex Salmond would carry out the duties of First Minister with great aplomb and style, bringing with him the integrity, experience and intellect demanded by that office".

The retired Glasgow businessman and former Celtic director, who bid for control of the football club 13 years ago, added: "These are exciting and changing times for Scotland, and I welcome this challenge."

:: full text of article at ::

www.dont-vote-labour.co.uk

160

morris,

Edinburgh 22/04/2007 09:15:26

154
Firstly Scotland cannot join the EU.
She already has a membership as does England Wales Northern Ireland .The internal affairs of member states make no difference to the EU who consider all countries/multi national states to be members until they declare otherwise. Senior members of the EU, including its ambassador to United Nations have confirmed this.
The rest of your comment is not even worth replying to. If thats the best you can do no wonder your getting your political butt kicked in a few weeks time on BOTH sides of the border.
The best part is Brown is less popular than Blair ! Who would have thought it possible!
Blair is less popular than flatulence in a space suit,what does that make Brown?

161

,

22/04/2007 09:16:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 550273, Article id was mapped to record!
162

Alistair Stewart,

Peerages row drains Labour’s coffers 22/04/2007 09:17:14

Peerages row drains Labour’s coffers
Philip Webster and Anthony Browne
Times

The cash-for-peerages affair has worsened Labour’s financial problems, with donations slipping almost to the level of those received by the Liberal Democrats.

Labour figures admitted yesterday that the party’s position was unlikely to improve until Gordon Brown became Prime Minister. “If you were planning to give money to Labour you would do it after Gordon takes over and not while Tony is there,” one said. “And if you are an avid Blairite you would probably save your money for any big institute that he may set up after he goes.” Another party insider said that donors were “holding back” and suggested there were several big gifts in the pipeline.

Donations fell from £3.2 million in the third quarter to £2.6 million in the last, and the party owes more than £23 million. The Conservatives owed even more — £35 million — on December 31. But they have recently sold their Smith Square headquarters for £30.5 million, and received £5 million in the last quarter. According to Electoral Commission figures, Labour attracted £2.64 million and the Lib Dems £2.32 million.

Parties also paid off — or converted to donations — £316,700 of £60.8 million in borrowing they had to disclose last year after the loans-for-peerages allegations. New borrowing reached a mere £36,100.

Three £250,000 donations from financiers have angered trade unions. Nigel Doughty, Sir Ronald Cohen and Jonathan Aisbitt each gave the sum, the commission’s figures show. Paul Kenny, leader of the GMB, suggested that Labour’s National Executive Committee “look into the background of where this money is coming from . . . Only in the last few weeks has the GMB campaigning put names and faces to the multimillionaire elite who run the private equity industry and made clear what they do”.

Mr Doughty, chairman of Doughty Hanson, a UK-based private equity firm, has a personal fortune estimated at

163

chris mcgoo,

22/04/2007 09:17:17

Just think how lucky england will be when we eventually get independance.They can look forward to not giving us scots £11billion in subsides allegedly,Trident subs parked up the mersey or thames,national service as they will need them "english troops" for whoever gw bush attacks next.
unfortunatly i think the guttless scots will still be clining to the unionist tail end scared to take a chance.
.
although not
me.........................snp 3 may
.

164

Alistair Stewart,

Peerages row drains Labour’s coffers 22/04/2007 09:17:44

cont

Hazel Blears, the party chairman, said: “Enterprising people, through private equity and other means, have been able to go into companies which are failing, turn them around, secure jobs, make sure the pensions scheme is secured and, in many cases, have breathed new life into enterprises which otherwise would go to the wall.”

Conservative coffers were boosted by a £500,000 donation in October from an unincorporated association called the Scottish Business Groups Focus On Scotland. This is the largest gift yet from the group, made as the elections to the Scottish Parliament approach.

Business donors have made increasing use of unincorporated associations to make gifts to the Tories; the Midlands Industrial Council has given £1.3 million since 2003. The names of members providing the funds do not have to be published by the Electoral Commission.

Another £500,000 gift came from an individual named Michael Farmer, a Christian and a metal trader who is said to be impressed with Mr Cameron’s policy on the family.

A large chunk of the Liberal Democrats’ gifts came from the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust Ltd, which gave £685,034 in three separate donations.


read full article

www.dont-vote-labour.co.uk

165

Allan (Glasgow),

22/04/2007 09:18:28

Of course Labour are putting Scotland down. Wendy Alexander was almost gleeful that the Scottish "deficit" was £12.9 bn. What other message does it give if you are basically saying that your country cant pay its way in the world?

166

Falsyde,

HIGHLAND SEP 22/04/2007 09:20:40

It may be unfashionable in an age of political correctness but for our money, anyone who fails to put their country first IS ANTI SCOTTISH including those who prepare, peddle and promote documents such as GERS which claims Scotland has a £11.2 billion hole in her books when in fact for that fiscal period the surplus as careful set out in THE GREAT DECEPTION was £9.6 billion as can be seen at www.scottishenterpriseparty.org great-deception.

The Norwegians introduced a word to the lexicon for people of that ilk, Quizling or Quizlings! Examples of which include Brown, Blair and McConnell all of whom were born and educated in Scotland.

167

Alistair Stewart,

New poll deepens Labour's gloom 22/04/2007 09:20:48

New poll deepens Labour's gloom - SUNDAY 22/4/07

The SNP goes six points ahead as the Blair and Brown camps blame each other for setbacks

read full article

www.dont-vote-labour.co.uk

168

wayne bijlyeerheid,

22/04/2007 09:21:49

Do the Catalans equate Spain with Castille?
I don't see how anyone can conduct a decent political debate when carrying out this England means the UK, the UK means England argument. This owes more to sectarianism than it does to rationalism.
Far from producing progress it is designed so that those of us who are aware of our country's history, and are quite proud of united Britain's record but would like to move on to a different relationship, are to be painted in a corner by the historically ignorant and politically arrogant.

169

This is just procrastination,

Edinburgh 22/04/2007 09:22:10

Why is it that there hasn't been more of a reaction to #27's clearly fascist comments?!! Were this a question of race, religion or even, dare I say it, someone saying the same of SNP supporters, that comment would have been shouted down and removed.

170

Craig Cockburn,

Scotland 22/04/2007 09:23:46

Latest poll news for readers here (and the Scotsman writers if you are interested)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article168...

171

ayrshie,

Drongan Ayrshire 22/04/2007 09:24:39

What is all this crap about appologies from Alex Salmond ? That , coming from McConnell and his partners in crime is astonishing. A vote for labour is anti-Scottish and this sickening, dying labour party are completely anti Scottish . When are they going to appologise for all the pain, suffering and asset robbbing of the elderly , for keeping a million children living below the poverty line. When are they gonna appologise to people all over Scotland for closing local hospitals and accident and emergency units. When are they gonna appologise for the most sickening election tactic I have seen in my lifetime , to scare the Scottish people into voting labour and keeping us tied to a rotting , corrupt that was brought into being by people like him. The SNP have done a fine job and Scotland has reached the point of no return . Anyone with an ounce of concience must vote to free us from this labour hellhole and take a major step in keeping our dignity and pride as a nation . Labour MSP's were given the priveledge and I emphasise the word priveledge of representing the people of Scotland and not, as each and every one of them have done to sell their souls to Westminister for English Gold. We must be allowed to be free and let our people prosper and that McConnell is what you have to apologise to Scotland for. Personally I think you are a fanny. !! NOW IS THE TIME .

172

Steve Foley,

England 22/04/2007 09:25:26

Cod indignation from the "Labour & Unionist Party" and its supporters, as one would expect. Perhaps the truth hurts?

False accusations of Racism from various posters, which is another "bogey" word like "Fascist" hurled like a grenade at anyone the accuser disagrees with if they dare to refer to the Nationality, Ethnicity or Colour of their opponents, and which is supposed to kill the argument stone dead and attract opprobrium to the other side.

Sorry folks, this time its a dud! Even reading the biased anti Salmond report (above) of The Scotsman, which has been given as much negative spin as it can, there is no insult to the Nationality, Colour nor Race of any Opponent be they English or Scots.

I agree with Alex Salmond, the polices and stance of Labour in this election are for a subservient Scotland, thrown a few more crumbs from Westminster's Table, "Devolution +" if you like, and showing their humble gratitude for this beneficence by voting in the usual clutch of Labour members for Holyrood and more so for Westminster in 2009/10.

This time I trust the Scots will not be conned and will opt for the Real thing and kick out this canting crew headed by "Jack the Plastic Mac" out of Holyrood.

173

alexander/,

irvine 22/04/2007 09:25:42

i know what labour are saying it is very anti-scottish its because they have depressed the scottish nation for 300 years that they think using this tactic will keep the union

what i can't understand is why Labour, Lib Dems and Tories would even reject a referendum on independance are they scared that the scottish people will choose independance over the union its obviously YES

they know that scotland wants independance but are rejecting our god given right to decide its not about england deciding when we should have a referendum it scotland who should decide i would also say the SNP if they win the elections it dosent atomatically become independant what the SNP promised is try them for a few years then make up your mind if they are fit to govern

its the scottish people who will decide on MAY 3rd so let the SNP get into power and see what they have got if you dont like it after a few years you could vote another party in at the next election it sounds like a fair deal to me

my vote for the SNP
lets stop this

174

Keir Hardie,

scatterkeir.blogspot.com 22/04/2007 09:25:52

i think anyone who wants to play down Scotland's problems and exaggerate Scotland's strengths is anti-Scottish, because that does Scotland no good.

175

malcolmcean,

22/04/2007 09:26:09

AM2:

"highlighting my non-Scottish ethnicity"

Were they? I thought that they said you were from NI. How does this preclude Scottish ethnicity?

It would seem that your political masters have given you a quota for the word ethnicity (as well as slogans like grudge and grievance, etc) in you posts.


You have not really answered my question above, AM2. Who is your audience on these boards? What do you hope to achieve?

It all seems like pointless baiting.

176

alexander/,

irvine 22/04/2007 09:28:00

anti scottish campaign from england and let be a nation again :D

177

Tom R,

22/04/2007 09:29:03

I have read the hard copy of SoS this morning and nowhere does Alex Salmond use the words "anti-Scottish"

It is typical of the gutter journalism preferred by Mr Barnes that he falsely (by the use iof quotation marks) ascribes to alex Salmond words which he did not use.

178

Techie,

Edinburgh 22/04/2007 09:30:54

Forget about the politics and lookat some nice pictures of Scotland http://www.scotlandonvideo.com

179

Upbeat,

22/04/2007 09:33:26

176 Falsyde

I haver never yet seen you justify the use of questionable figuring to produce the neat surplus that your "The Great deception" report gave credence to.

More people in work in Scotland than are of employable age. (giving more taxpayers, fewer claiming benefits)

Moving the portion of British GNP that is attributable to Scotland way above that of any other analyst. (putting an unreal positive " spin" on Scotland's true fiscal position.)

While I can understand that you may not ever have had access to the latest Treasury figures for Scotland, to base an entire political campaign on guestimates and expect that the electorate will not notice, seems very naive.

180

Kenny A,

Scotland 22/04/2007 09:35:15

#183

DONT THINK LABOUR HAVE BEEN ABOUT FOR 300 YEARS.

181

Upbeat,

22/04/2007 09:41:46

185 Malcolmcean

"It all seems like pointless baiting"

Does it ?

What you may have failed to grasp is that there are other people in Scotland, and elsewhere who have an equal right to post their opinions onto these boards.

Most revealing is that so few who come up with wel thought out arguments, and conduct discussions on real issues here.

Instead we see attack attack attack from those who find the arguments contrary to their own narrow viewpoints . These people almost always attack the person who has posted, never what he or she has said.

182

alexander/,

irvine 22/04/2007 09:42:34

#191

of course they haven't but the english have they have been the ones around depressing our country and have used that tactic for 300 years why do u think tony blair, gordon brown have been up here

183

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 22/04/2007 09:42:46

Up Beat # 157 In the real world "predictability, certainty and stability" are great building blocks for any progressive economy. Blair/Brown claim this to be current in the UK. Here the rich get richer and the poor poorer. Scotland has a shocking record on housing, health, regeneration and a criminal disregard for the future of our children and a total diregard for a generation of pensioners. Sleaze, corruption and double dealing are the hallmark from Westminster. Illegality is the way "forward" be it Iraq, immigration, cash for honours or trust and transparency. The "cleaner than clean" governance promised has been abandoned. I ask you is this "predictability, certainty and stability"? If not let's change it!

184

Laird of Balmungie,

Balmungie 22/04/2007 09:43:06

I went to a very good lecture yesterday at the annual conference of the Scottish Association of Family History Societies - see

http://www.highlandfhs.org.uk/HFHSConference.asp

David Stenhouse, a senior producer at BBC Radio Scotland, spoke on Scots and 'Former Scots': Learning to Love the Diaspora.

He made many points, interlaced with rich anecdotes, and humour. One of them was that when Scots emigrate from Scotland they're no longer regarded as Scots, whereas wherever the Irish are in the world they're always Irish.

Perhaps we Scots fear to identify our Scottishness abroad (in the 70s, when I went to work in London, my colleagues persuaded me that I would get promoted much faster if I toned 'down' my accent - and it worked !).

I think there's a confusion here - anti-Scotland and anti-Scottish.

Labour's campaign seems to be anti-Scotland not anti-Scottish, anti-Scotland because they affirm that Scotland needs England, that Scotland can't be independent, that Scotland will be poor, that we don't have the talent to run Scotland.

We won't find out whether it's anti-Scottish until the results of the forthcoming election, and if Labour loses a lot of MSPs, then it'll be clear that Labour were being anti-Scottish.

185

,

22/04/2007 09:46:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
186

Laird of Balmungie,

Balmungie 22/04/2007 09:50:06

Before Devolution, Labour, the Liberals, and the Tories made all the same arguments about devolution, that Labour are making in this election campaign.

And they've all come to naught, we have the strongest Scotland that we've ever had.

The Scottish Parliament and the Government (the Scottish Executive) may not be perfect (and indeed, will never be), but they are making lots of good decisions for Scotland. Many of the changes made are envied by the English, and the English are calling for those same changes to be made for England in Westminster.

187

Kenny A,

Scotland 22/04/2007 09:52:21

#193

Brown Scottish.
Blair debatable what he is.

Can't blaim it all on the English, plenty self serving Scots in the past and still today.

188

Upbeat,

22/04/2007 09:53:05

194 Il P

How to deconstruct your rant.

I will say the following.People in Scotland on average have never been better off. More people are in work than ever before. Average incomes are higher than ever before, more hospitals and schools have been built and renovated than ever before. More money is passed down to the least fortunate through government benefit and social security schemes than ever before.

The question of legality of the Iraq war has been debated almost to "death" through these boards for weeks. ...wioth no verifiable conclusion being reached. ( as in Iraq ;-) )

The jury has not even been convened to hear the evidence about Cash for honours. As to trust and transparency...it was this Westminster government that passed the freedom of information act, and has strengthened the data protection acts.

It appears that you are very keen to put a bad spin onto conditions in Scotland for your own political ends. But telling people that they should feel bad about Scotland when the reverse is true is a very sad way to set about improving Scotland.

189

alexander/,

irvine 22/04/2007 09:56:18

#199

how can u call brown scottish he said his greatest goal was paul cascoigne against scotland at euro 96 he will say anything 2 stay in power even be anti-scottish just 2 be prime minister

190

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 22/04/2007 09:56:50

AM/AM2 (all over!) Sorry pal you have been checkmated so often your game is up. My only regret is you wont leave the "board"!

191

Cam3,

Scotland 22/04/2007 09:59:30

AM2 - you're a numpty.

I mean - what's the point in arguing? Debating? Using empirical FACT to demonstrate the absolutely useless labour position?

Scottish parliament = Scottish vote.

NOT a vote where where we're likely to hear:

'..sorry, that matter is resevered for Westminster...'

You know - small matters on Iraq,Trident, defence policies, Pensions, income tax etc

Labour or Lib-Dem vote = SPINELESS, COWARDLY and DULL politics...

192

saltire.1,

Moray 22/04/2007 10:01:19

come on the Nats

ITS TIME

193

Cam3,

Scotland 22/04/2007 10:03:34

Labour party ARE anti-Scottish - by defintion!!!

Why?

Because they argue the case for a dependancy culture [at least, that's what they remind us] and because their political horizons are VERY small.

Exciting ideological futures! NOT the Labour party.

New politics for a modern Scotland? NOT the Labour party.

194

Kenny A,

Scotland 22/04/2007 10:05:21

#203

It was some goal in fairness. Can't change the fact he is Scottish either.

Barring that, I agree Brown is interested in only one thing, him as PM. Even Presbeterians need a hobby I guess.

195

Allan (Glasgow),

22/04/2007 10:06:08

189 AM2,

And what other message are these tactics supposed to do? If no one on the Unionist side is suggesting that Scotland cant pay her way then why are these figures promoted with such zeal? Why is it one of the central planks of Labour's campaign?

£12.9bn is a hell of a funding figure no matter what side you are on. I look around Scotland and I see no evidence of this "Union Dividened". In my view, the simple fact is the Labour Party have managed to engineer a situation whereby they say that my country is in the red to the tune of billions. My answer - they are therefore incompetent and I will vote them out.

You state an independent Scotland would have have to reduce spending massively and make spending cuts. So this isnt scare tactics? This isnt putting Scotland down? This isnt saying that we cant pay our way?

P.S. You misundertand Barnett. Scottish funding is via the Black Grant. Barnett deals with % increases in spend relative to English rises.

196

Publius,

Girvan 22/04/2007 10:11:49

#168 Morris
EU Opinion is divided about whether an independent Scotland would automatically be in the EU. At least one EU commissioner has said that Scotland would have to make a new application. If so all 27 existing members would have to agree. This would need referendums in some states.
Also SNP has not been consistent about EU. When UK joined EEC, SNP campaigned against. Consistency would be welcome.

197

Gaudd,

Edinburgh 22/04/2007 10:12:55

It was a certainty that as the election drew near the Unionist media would step up their propaganda. Like others have pointed out this is a poor attempt by the SoS and a example of why this newspaper's credibility has waned considerably.

198

Geoff,

SA 22/04/2007 10:14:35

176-Falsyde-so if you are a proud Scot who regards
Great Britain as his or her country, then by your definition you are anti-Scottish?

199

Iain green,

East Lothian 22/04/2007 10:15:36

Let's have a look at what isn't on the front page today, shall we?

Cash for donations - two senior Labourites under serious investigation.
SNP 7 points ahead in polls.
Blair backpedalling on resignation date.

Instead we get Eddie taking a chunk out of an interview he's already done with Salmond, and creating another piece of panicky sub Labourite nonsense with it.
Now, I know the Scotsman is finding it hard to get journos these days, but re-spinning articles two or three times in one paper is just lazy journalism at its worst.

PS Eddie - remember when you tried to pin the train crash a few weeks ago on 'extremist Nats' only to admit in the last line that the polis weren't even considering the possibility?

Oh dearie, dearie me.

200

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 22/04/2007 10:17:54

I don't think the Scotsman read their own comments section. If they did they would realise the majority of posters support the SNP. This could translate that a majority of their potential market is Pro SNP so why do they insist on such bias towards Labour in their reporting. If they actually thought about what they put out there it would be prudent to report unbiased and balanced stories. Or perhaps they should rename their newspaper in order to reflect their anti SNP and by how they are now appearing anti Scottish stance.

201

Cas,

The Debatable Lands 22/04/2007 10:18:21

Political power in Scotland should return to the good old days before we were dominated by England to when we were dominated by the French. Or the Vikings. Who are we anyway? My history books tell me of several warring and quite distinct cultures before a dominant King of the Scots (Irish) came on the scene. Who said ' a country is an idea not a place'?

202

malcolmcean,

22/04/2007 10:19:54

Upbeat #192:

I really cannot possibly see how you equate my question to AM2 with stifling of free speech. She/he could have answered: yes, I don't like them and want to constantly articulate what it is I don't like. I would have perhaps countered that the words he/she uses are not her own but those of a political party who are trying to convince people (asking again who it is he/she is trying to convince).

It is called dialogue. If you were able to reign in your emotive responses, it may be possible that even we could indulge in that activity.


AM2 #201:

This is a rather silly and emotional rant which does not really answer my question. Who is your audience? Do you really believe that recycling Labour party propoganda is furthering the cause of convincing people on here to accept what you believe to be the case?

I just can't see what it is you are trying to achieve.

203

Media 1,

cape town and stockbridge 22/04/2007 10:19:58

Now I have heard it all. Salmond, the only rogue politician in Britain is now accusing others of being Anti-Scottish.

Perhaps Alex should remember that his hatred for England is what forces him to lose focus on what is best for Scotland. Whereas others who are more inclined to do what is best for Scotland are not side tracked by a petty dislike of England.

The SNP are the most Anti - Scottish party any of us will ever have the misfortune of knowing. They sell the people of Scotland nothing but lies and play on their emotions in order to dupe them into a false sense of security. Then there is the everyday changing of mind which Alex has become famous for.

The SNP are a disgrace and probably the most dangerous political bacteria that Scotland has ever known.

204

malcolmcean,

22/04/2007 10:23:05

Media1:

"The SNP are a disgrace and probably the most dangerous political bacteria that Scotland has ever known."

Oh dear. Behold the true face of British nationalism.

205

Torchwood,

Aberdeen 22/04/2007 10:24:45

One of Salmond's biggest supporters is Sir Sean Connery who not only is a tax exile but has in the past advertised Suntory Japanese whisky.

Clearly a hypocrite like the lot of them

And why has Salmond given up his seat his Westminister since he is so confident.

Wouldn't trust the lot of them at all!

206

malcolmcean,

22/04/2007 10:25:15

AM2 : "If anyone's ranting, it's not me!"

Perhaps if you repeat this often enough it may come to have the same semsblance of the truth to you that 'grudge and grienvance, tax and turmoil, etc (copyright the Labout party) already have.

You have still not answered my question.

207

4 bricks build a very small wall,

far away 22/04/2007 10:26:18

#205

Do not post a great deal, however this is an area of interest to me as an ex serviceman, even if it was a considerable time ago.

I feel it will be difficult to restore the Scottish regiments.

Amalgamation was wrong, short sighted was mainly political and was a step towards a unitary military system, rather than the regimental system. However many senior military officers, saw little option in view of the dwindling number of recruits. Will skip the causes leading to fewer recruits, (Blair, Bush, Iraq etc).

It was also a cost cutting exercise directed at the wrong target, civil servants in the MOD if put into uniform could invade several continents in one go if some figures are to be believed.

I do not know if it is realistic at the present time to go back towards the old regiments, lot of experience was lost during amalgamation and cannot be replaced overnight.

However I would like to see the return of the historical names as separate entities, and why not.

Could lead into a debate about why are we peace loving Scots going to militarise again after independence or are we just going to have a lot of small battalions.

Open to the floor, as I have not got the answers.

208

AG.,

Scotland 22/04/2007 10:27:45

Never a truer word has been said the Labour party are anti-Scottish.

209

malcolmcean,

22/04/2007 10:28:37

"A bit harsh, no? He remembered to throw in the word "sadly" here...

"We don't take enough pleasure from Scotland's achievements so, sadly, the compensation for some of us is to delight in England's falls."

(Alex Salmond, Sunday Times Scotland, 28/6/98, section 1, page 10)."

Good to see that you are finally begining to understand how corrosive Daily Record anti-Englishness can be (what Salmond was referring to in that article).

210

,

22/04/2007 10:31:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
211

OscarMacApfel,

Dumbfreaks and Galloway 22/04/2007 10:31:21

Media 1.

'Hatred for England?'

Such a strong emotion, usually 'hatred' cannot be hidden, it's carried everywhere is evident in conversation, bearing, manner etcetera.

Can you show me one example of Salmond's 'hatred for England'?

212

Kenny A,

Scotland 22/04/2007 10:33:14

#220

Ever heard of Nick Griffen and his chums.

From the way you went on there I forsee blood pressure problems developing.

213

alexander/,

irvine 22/04/2007 10:35:08

the labour party claimed if we became indepenant every household would have to pay an extra £5000 and scotland would have to cut services etc.

this coming from a labour report

biased?

is it me or is it the fact that this is a labour report thats NOT going to be biased yeah right

also the money that scotland generates would mean all the money would stay in scotland therefore the scotalnd would be richer.

also ask this question why are england so desprate to keep us if we are apparently subsidies would it not make sense for them to let scotland be independant or is it this is a blatant lie because all our money goes through the treasury and we only get a percentage back so wheres the rest of the money?

it obviously subsiding england

the SNP have my vote

214

Bill, Dunblane,

22/04/2007 10:37:50

220 - Village Idiot

What I would give to watch you on election night - maybe just as Alex Salmond wins Gordon.

Not a pretty sight, but no doubt a memorable one! ;)

215

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 22/04/2007 10:38:02

Up Beat 200 Sorry you consider my observations as a "rant"
a) So invading Iraq was legal?
b) New constructions with PFI/PPP schemes are sound financial investments?
c) Freedom of Info. brought in by Labour! They tried to emasculate it this week but failed. Why? They were being found out to be liars with their own legislation.
d) Better paid? Can anyone on the minimum wage save 25% of their earnings for a pension when they reach 65, 66, 67, 68?
e) Over three thousand pensioners died in Scotland last year thro' cold related illness. The worst pension provision in Europe by the (so-called) fifth strongest economy in the world! Promises made to pensioners by Brown, Blair, Prescott and Harman in manifesto reneged!
f) Cash for Honours? Police evidence to be judged competent by a Blair appointee, the Attorney General! The same honourable lawyer who "changed his mind" about the "dodgy dossier" and we invaded Iraq!
g) "Feeling bad about Scotland! Never! It can and will, with change, be a vastly improved country as long as it breaks the direputable links with a now discredited Westminster system that thrives thro' wealth and privilege.

216

ozscall,

Melbourne, Australia 22/04/2007 10:41:15

I left three years ago and migrated to australia, convinced that scottish people will never stand up to be counted like the irish, the danes, the canadians - all countries i had worked and dealt with. The only independent press in scotland is the bulletin boards now allowed on websites like this. If the SNP and Salmond break through this cabal there will be myself and many other expat scots on the plane home very soon. If that means the likes of the editors of the national broadsheets and red top rag trade are on the opposite plane out well hey, i think it will all balance out and scotland will do okay.

217

Allan (Glasgow),

22/04/2007 10:41:20

218 AM2

I am really struggling to get my head round your argument. If you spend more than you are raising then by definition you cannot pay your way!! Again, I ask you if its no big deal then why is it a central tactic of the Labour campaign? Telling the public that nurses, teachers etc would have to be cut are not scare tactics? No, sorry you're right - that is Labour being positive!

218

Yeti,

22/04/2007 10:42:25
219

Yr Awel,

Here and There 22/04/2007 10:45:59

39 & 40 (proud doonhammer)

You say: this is "...our election..." Whose election again, please?

46

The SNP = "EU unionists"? I have read their manifestos long and hard, but cannot find even the slightest trace of a commitment on their part to anything that would somehow resemble a European nation state, which I personally hope will materialize some day! Why? Because only political unions that by-pass cultures and vested interests can guarantee individual freedom.

49 (same problem to me in post 52)

The UK = 4 countries, all right, but how many interacting people? Only these give meaning to a territory, not geography, not history, nor anything else. Otherwise, we would all agree with the SNP... Scotland is diverse; long may it stay that way!

49, 52, 61

You seem to be lost in the 100% marxist rhetoric of the 1970s, curtesy of academics like Nairn, Prebble and the like. Sorry, but historical science has moved on. Ever heard eg of a new academice field of research called: "postsocial history"?

67

"self-hating Scots"???? But... they are SCOTS who simply happen to have a different approach to Scotland and Scottishness. My foregoing question applies here too!

83

Here's what the Guardian had to say about Norway, only yesterday:
"Like other wealthy countries, Norway intends to reach its target mainly by offsetting its 54m tonnes of carbon emissions a year using quotas bought on international markets. The country, which is the world's fifth largest oil exporter, has built up savings from oil and gas exports of nearly $300bn. Norwegian emissions per capita are about 11 tonnes, almost three times the world average. "

127

Good end question, AM2!
I believe we won't be voting for the same party when the time comes, but all I can say to you is keep up the good work!

144

Refer to the McCrone Report as much as you like, but please

220

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 22/04/2007 10:47:34

Media 1 #220 Your vitriol knows no bounds! Thank the Lord you spend a lot of your time in S. Africa. You would do well in the BNP and make an excellent candidate for a Westminster seat. An outstanding case to stay in the Union? Aye, that will be right!

221

Yr Awel,

Here and There 22/04/2007 10:56:20

163

Sorry, but democracy is not about truth (if only it were that simple...).
As New Yorker journalist James Surowiecki has explained: ‘(democracy) is not a way of solving cognition problems or a mechanism for revealing the public interest. But it is a way of dealing with (if not solving once and for all) the most fundamental problems of cooperation and coordination: How do we live together? How can living together work to our mutual benefit? Democracy helps people answer these questions because the democratic experience is an experience of not getting everything you want. It’s an experience of seeing your opponents win and get what you hoped to have, and of accepting it, because you believe that they wil not destroy the things you value and because you know you will have another chance to get what you want. In that sense, a healthy democracy inculcates the virtues of compromise – which is, after all, the foundation of the social contract – and change.’ (from The Wisdom of Crowds (Why the Many Are Smarter Than the Few), London: Abacus, 2005 (2004), p. 271)

169 & 201

Very valid points again by AM2!
Despite the hype about civic nationalism, the SNP remains an "either..., or..." sort of party. Otherwise, of course, they would not be nationalists.
Here's another interesting quote:
"It is important to distinguish [the principle of national self-determination] from political self-determination as such - that is, the idea that people have a right to some participation in political life. The principle of national self-determination is indistinguishable from such a concept unless there is a difference of some kind between nations and states. Otherwise, self-determination for a nation would simply mean self-government for the persons who are already citizens of a particular state. To maintain a distinct concept of national self-determination, nations must already be thought to be communities in some sense prior to t

222

JT fae Cardiff,

22/04/2007 11:01:13

New headline: "Outrage as Scotsman reaches new depths at senasonalist headline writing"

Good to see the Scotsman vying to become the next Official Labour Party newspaper.

I'd expect this from a Red Top. Scotsman: I'm disappointed!

223

Gregor Addison,

Scotland 22/04/2007 11:11:54

What about "Outrage as Labour Press seek to fix election?" I guess we knew it was going to get dirty. I look forward to next Sundays hatchet job on the SNP. As for those who accuse SNP voters of being bigots and racists, I must say I've always found a certain intolerance in that approach to politics; it suggests you have nothing to say about your own party, so resort to unfounded statements like this. Are you really trying to tell us that those people who have decided to leave Labour for the SNP are all bigots and racists? And here I thought you wanted them back.

224

Alex Young Laird of Drumchapel,

Dr. Porter 22/04/2007 11:17:40

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225

Ian,

22/04/2007 11:21:35

Maybe not anti Scottish but Labour are not PRO Scottish
I'm not sure about independance but it is going to happen so it might as well be while the oil is still there , because you can bet your last penny that when it starts to run out it will be England that gets rid of US. The only reason Scotland gets a decent deal in the UK is because of the black gold.Split now and we at least have our own "financial backing" - When the "Scottish Waters" agreement is eventually haggled over.

226

Stewie G,

22/04/2007 11:24:58

Why oh why are SoS trying to emulate The Sahn by printing a photo of two "tits"on the cover?


Love this picture of Reichmarshall McConnell and Comrade Stalin himself -The man who would be King -and who arrogantly assumed that he could "deliver Scotland" as if he were some modern-day William Wallace with his finger on the pulse of the nation. You don't.

Back at the (eastern) front to see how this incompetent buffoon is turning Scotland into Labour's very own Stalingrad, which may well cost him the chance to be PM of his beloved England-but make no mistake the cancer in Labour goes way, way deeper than McConnell.

227

I'm no really here,

22/04/2007 11:30:09

I wish some posters would read the story. Alex Salmond DID NOT accuse any voter group of being anti-Scottish - that is just repeating Labour Lies. Instead he accused the Scottish Labour Party of being anti-Scottish. Please get it right.

Is there another political party ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD that campaigns on the basis: we can't survive on our own, we are incapable of running our own affairs??

Only in Scotland, and only the Labour Party.

If we vote for ANYTHING other than SNP, we will get another Labour/LibDem alliance for ???? years.

228

Allan (Glasgow),

22/04/2007 11:32:22

244 AM2

I hear of this "Union Dividend" and I again state that I see no sign of it and £12.9bn is one very large figure indeed. With that kind of subsidy/ dividend, or whatever your preferred description of fiscal deficit, Scotland should be swimming in cash - which we arent.

Labour are essentially saying that Scotland, with less than 10% of the UK population, has managed to run up a deficit equating to roughly a quarter of the respective UK deficit. Now, either this means that Labour have catastrophically mismanaged the Scottish economy or that the Union as a whole is failing us.

One thing I do agree on with you is that more conservative economic policies are absolutely required. However, to fulfil this we need control of all the economic levers and this cannot be achieved within the devolved framework.

Independence is now inevitable. No matter who wins this election more powers will be ceded to the Parliament in this term. As Tam Dalyell stated, this is now a motorway with no exits. We will reach a stage where to all intents and purposes Scotland is independent. The next stage would be a simple step.

229

Euan D,

Berlin/Glasgow 22/04/2007 11:34:27

Dear "Name" - posted 1:40 am
"I'm looking forward to the anti-English, anti-Asian, anti-black, anti-gay retorts from the Scottish Nationalistis".

What on earth has any of this to do with racism or homophobia? Most Asians I know in Scotland are proud to be Scottish-Asian/Asian-Scottish rather than carrying a British prefix or suffix.
I don't know where any gay issues were raised in this piece: there is no reason for the SNP to be any more pro- or anti-gay than any other party in their desire for independence.
Anti-English is a tired, tired old sentiment. In an independent Scotland, they would be our biggest trading partners and allies. Something Alex Salmond has commented on recently.

Personally, in my immediate circle of friends, I can include people from Europe, Africa, North America and Asia; people from Muslim backgrounds; and gay men and women. I'm very much for an independent Scotland, and will be voting so.

Please stop forcing your agenda into places where it does not exist. Oh, and be so brave as to give us your name next time.

230

GP,

22/04/2007 11:41:26

Salmiond is correct the labour party is anti scottish it is anti anything that resembles self reliance and self progression. This is NOT a socialist principle by any means but it is the so called socialist Labour party of the UK that is stifling the sctottish economy.
Scoptland lags behind every other european nation in econominc terms and has for many decades. It clearly lags behing the UK as a whole and massively behind London. Th lbaour party has "managed" scotland for over 50 years via local and national government yet with many of this parties leaders having scottish roots the situation prevails whereby the economy underperforms.
The accusation is proven!

Looking around the world we see nations like United Arab Emirates growing their economies on the back of high oil revenues. But they are investing wisely in massive infrastructure projects that allows their economy now to be no longer to be dependant on oil anymore.

What did the UK invest the oil revenues in?

Not Scotland for sure.

Accusation proven!

231

plord,

edinburgh 22/04/2007 11:42:05

gordon brown has been the chancellor long enough to know the truth about scotlands finances and he didn't tell us. thats not anti scottish, it follows in a long line of treachery perpetrated on us by our own.
kis reason interests me, does he have a plan? it may be that other scottish trait, he likes to be the big man. see me i'm the prime minister

232

Royster,

22/04/2007 11:43:45

#133. Actually Kenny, there is no such thing as an ethnic Scot (even the ones from Ireland). The majority of the people on the islands of Britain and Ireland are descended from its original stone-age inhabitants. In Ireland and Wales the precentage is around 70-80% and England and Scotland 50-60%. Note England and Scotland have the same percentage. Only Yorkshire has a higher percentage of settlers from Danes and Saxons.

233

Royster,

22/04/2007 11:45:04

That means most of us are descended from Ancient Britons who were here long before any King created Scotland or England.

234

NittonLover,

22/04/2007 11:46:30

This has to be one of the worst reported elections I can remember. There is nothing substantial being reported, this site and the BBC are the worst. For the third day in a row the main election article is Nat bashing. I expect this from a biased paper like the Scotsman (at least it has improved a bit since the Barclay brothers sold it) but the BBC has to be impartial, its part of its charter.

235

Bill, Dunblane,

22/04/2007 11:47:11

Ach well, at least they got their cartoon right. :D

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/cartoon.cfm?id=61909...

236

Anne, Glasgow,

Glasgow 22/04/2007 11:53:55

Rain check folks. Read todays Sunday Times, SNP are 7% ahead of Labour. Hence today's vitriolic attack on Alex Salmond. It's all the Labour and unionist papers have to attack on. We are only just over a week to the election and going by the tone of Labour they are panicking. I hear that Tony Blair is visiting Scotland again. I don't think Jack McConnell will be too happy about that.

237

Jolly,

Norway 22/04/2007 11:56:09

249 Stewie G

Elections operate where a party and thus a person is chosen, perhaps later to be beaten in a future ballot. It is thus unneccessary to descend to such imagery and offensiveness, because others have different opinions. One will indeed encounter many people with a variety of political views!

238

M.ark,

Aberdeen 22/04/2007 12:00:44

Salmond stating that Brown, Blair and McConnell are losing touch with the Scottish people is perfectly true, hence why they are losing the election.I am so glad i dont actually pay money to buy this c**p in the shop.surely the Scotsman is losing readers as it continues to spout this unpopular drivvle? I am not saying i will support the SNP but we need reporting which is true to the facts.

239

Darryl Matheson,

Elgin, Morayshire 22/04/2007 12:07:06

The interesting thing about the polls is, if for example the Yougov poll only shows Labour losing 8 seats add 8 to the SNP's current 27 and that’s only 35 so what the SNP are relying on is the Tories, the Lib-Dems and the greens falling back and that is simply not going to happen and if it does not even taking their best poll lead today they are not going to be the largest party unless others fall back. you may say, but the SSP will be left with zero but even if all that vote goes to the SNP it only brings their total to 41 (or 40 if you assume Tommy Sheridan getting back in) that would be 1 less than Labour and as the SNP keep saying the public would not thank a party for denying the larger party government.

240

livilion,

22/04/2007 12:07:14

178. wayne bijlyeerheid

>>>
I don't see how anyone can conduct a decent political debate when carrying out this England means the UK, the UK means England argument. This owes more to sectarianism than it does to rationalism.
<<<
Here's just an example:
Channel 4 and any satelite or cable channel refering to 'England' instead of Britain perhaps?


eg
Channel 4 SATURDAYs @ 17.30pm

Monarchy by David Starkey
A series of six programmes.

1: A Nation State.
AD 400 to 1400: it was during the Dark Ages that the institution of monarchy was first established by the first Saxon kings, who wanted to create a stable society able to withstand Viking invasion.
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/M/monarchy/
]

2: Aengla Land.
A chance to see the first three series of Dr David Starkey's complete history of the British Monarchy, ahead of the brand new concluding part. In the second film of the series Dr Starkey chronicles the stormy path of the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of England, the world's first nation state.

3: The Children of Henry VIII
Continuing this major television event, the greatest living authority on the subject, Dr David Starkey, presents the third part of a #complete# history of the British monarchy.


4: The Stuart Succession.
With the defeat of the Spanish Armada, the power and reputation of the monarchy under Queen Elizabeth I stood at its zenith.

Even the Pope, who had helped finance the Armada expedition, expressed his admiration of her and only regretted that they were unable to have children together.

However, within a generation, the new British nation was to find itself in the middle of the bloodiest of civil wars.

James VI of Scotland and now James I of England had managed to hold everything together but, under the Stu

241

jennie,

inverness 22/04/2007 12:10:05

Barry Donald Scarfe et al - one point about Cameron and Broon, and Blair, is that despite Scottish roots and connections you rarely see them - or any Westminster politician - north of the Border. Only when an election looms or the spin doctors think it is useful.
That said, Blair visited the Western Isles a few years ago and was the first incumbent British PM ever to do so - which leaves me, for once, saying something in his favour. Once.

Generally, the British government gives not a toss for Scotland. What they want us for is our electricity - we export half of what we generate south of the border - and our oil - the revenues of which have underpinned a great deal of foolish and extravagant expenditure. Unlike Shetland who, like Norway, have prudently and consistently banked their oil revenues and used them for the general good.

The military also like using us for things like weapons storage (Faslane) and training purposes (vast tracts of the Highlands are M.O.D. low-flying zones which - some of you may be interested to know - will never be allowed to be used for windfarms in case pilots fly into the turbines). Submarines glide silently in and out of sea lochs; every so often a trawler is snagged by a submarine and sinks, but that's collateral damage, to be hushed up..

Our West Coast is bathed in radioactivity swept north from Sellafield/Windscale, so much so that before Chernobyl the sea was more radioactive at Lochinver than at Dounreay. Did you know the post-Chernobyl study monitoring radioactivity in the population of the West Highlands was closed down when it showed that far from decreasing with time, whole body monitoring showed that radiation levels were continuing to increase? Nobody wanted to know.

No, write down your sightings of these rare migrant visitors to the North, they'll not be seen here again for years.

242

Steve Foley,

England 22/04/2007 12:13:44

What amazes me about the various Anti-SNP posters is that Scotland is NOT a former Colony seeking to prove that it is worthy of Nation Status. For centuries until 1707 Scotland WAS a nation, albeit from 1603 sharing its Monarch with England. Even to this day it has its own Currency (Banknotes), Established Church Church of Scotland, Legal System, all differing from that of England. Even the "English" spoken by many in Scotland is different in many ways to that of "Received Pronunciation" English. There is a strong sense of Scottish Identity and geographically Scotland is contained within a recognisable land mass not dispersed in many little enclaves or locked within another Sovereign State's Territory.

The UN has recognised as Nations groups with far less clearly defined criteria for Nationhood.

Unless one is emotionally bonded to the idea of the Union, an Independent Scotland should hold no fears for anyone, be they a Thatcherite Free Market Conservative to an old style Socialist in the mould of Maxton, Wheatley, Shinwell and others, as all Political parties will be free to seek election to the country's Parliament although I would think that an Independent Scotland would be more likely to elect a Socialist than a Conservative Government.

243

New Labour - New Mess,

Broxburn 22/04/2007 12:13:52

Nae Labour
Nae Britain

244

I'm no really here,

22/04/2007 12:16:25

Royster, I don't know where you get your figures from. You say that 70-80% of Scots are descended from the PICTS??. What a load of CRAP.

Oh, and BTW, what was the reason for Hadrian to build the Wall if it wasn't to keep a foreign army out of the rest of their empire - a foreign army lead by - who do you think??

Scottish and English Kings and Queens were not the first on these Islands.

But then when has spouting CRAP stopped a Labour supporter speaking or posting on these forums - or even printing articles in this newspaper.

245

livilion,

livingston 22/04/2007 12:17:56

263. Darryl Matheson, Elgin, Morayshire

I agree the interesting thing is that the reporting of the poll shows Labour only losing 8 seats.

In 2003 Labour won 50 seats the same number of seats as the SNP are now predicted to win.

Since then the Liberals have dropped from 17% to 13% and the Tories from 18% to 13%.

Are we saying that the growth in support for the SNP is mainly at the expense of the Liberals and the Tories?

246

frank mcbride,

lusitania 22/04/2007 12:20:05

#243

Don't you realise that your quote in support of AM2 is perfect in its SUPPORT FOR AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND as proposed by the SNP.

I am delighted that you have realised the error of your ways and, are in the process of leading AM2 towards the light.

Unfortunately, I believe that AM2 will perceive the light at the end of the tunnel as a fast approaching train!!!

247

Darryl Matheson,

Elgin, Morayshire 22/04/2007 12:23:29

#270

In the past pollsters have always underestimated the Tories and the Lib-Dems, they did in 1999 and 2003. So if they don't fall back the SNP are in real trouble.

248

Neil,

9% Growth Party 22/04/2007 12:24:18

It is hardly the first time an SNP supporter has suggested they are patriots & everybody else a traitor. Despite the name they have no monopoly on patriotism.

249

Eve,

Scotland 22/04/2007 12:25:47

#12. Ted: Have you read a differnt Sunday Hearld form the one I was filking through this morning?

Their negativity towards the SNP was massive and so was the edtors ampathy for the Labour party. The edtor letter appeared to be a plee form the editor for us to go out and vote Labour because their feeling a wee bit down and out and it would make them feel so much better.

At least Ian McWhither got it right when he said the the mida was unionist bias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 good thing about todays Sunday Hearld was I got a wee tiny version of the SNP manofesto.

250

morris,

Edinburgh 22/04/2007 12:26:34

264
Point well made.

A typical comment came from John Major no less who stated that the SNP would threaten thousands of years of living in partnership together in harmony! Thats strange because I was taught about 1603 and 1707 and the rest prior to this was war between the two .
Mind you when asked was it true that he left school without so much as an O level he replied and I quote " I don't recall getting any" . Oh so we cannot be absolutely certain then even though he did not even sit any!
The drivel that is forthcoming consistently is an insult to Scotland and every one of her citizens.
Conservative values indeed. (Money)

251

Steve Foley,

England 22/04/2007 12:26:40

This may interest #253 regarding the investment or lack of same of Oil Revenues.

----------------------------------------------------------

Gordon Campbell, Baron Campbell of Croy

Gordon Thomas Calthrop Campbell, Baron Campbell of Croy, MC PC, (June 8, 1921 – April 26, 2005), born in Lossiemouth, Moray, and a Scottish Conservative & Unionist politician.

After serving in the Second World War during which he won the Military Cross and Bar, he served the Foreign Office in New York and Vienna until 1957. Elected to parliament in 1959, he served as Member of Parliament for the constituency of Moray and Nairn until February 1974 when he was defeated by Winnie Ewing of the Scottish National Party. He served as a Government Whip, 1961-62; Lord Commissioner of the Treasury and Scottish Whip, 1962-63; Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, 1963-64. He was Opposition Spokesman on Defence, 1967-68 and a member of the Shadow Cabinet, 1969-70.

He was Secretary of State for Scotland during the whole of Edward Heath's government. During his term in office the issues of fishing and oil led to him losing his Moray coastal seat to the SNP. Government papers released under the 30 year rule reveal an attitude that may explain that loss. Papers from 1970 revealed how the Scottish Office was prepared to have a "weaker and less efficient national fleet"[1] to enable the UK to sign up to the controversial Common Fisheries Policy. On oil in 1972 Campbell was against any move to pump oil revenues directly in to the Scottish economy despite Heath asking government departments to explore such an arrangements to help revive Scotland's economy with "its own resources"[2]. Further papers from 1974 revealed how he proposed "exceptional measures" to force Shetland Islands Council to accept an oil terminal without financial benefit to the islands[3].

------------------------------------------------------------

<
252

livilion,

livingston 22/04/2007 12:28:52

269. AM2, Glasgow
You are treading on dangerous ground my friend when you side with the white supremacists such as Media 1 and in this case #124. freedom4whites, new zealand

It is not SNP orthodoxy nor should it be any civilised person or body's orthodoxy to develop their values along ethnic stereotypes.

Would you argue otherwise?

253

Not Brian Taylor,

22/04/2007 12:31:52

#95 LA - IIRC it was at a polling station in Fife in a local election campaign. The primary school being used had a flagpole with saltire in the grounds of the school. On polling day the Labour candidate demanded it be taken down as he believed it would encourage voting for the SNP.

I have the newspaper clipping from the time stashed away somewhere, but I'm buggered if I'm digging through cardboard boxes for it now.

254

NittonLover,

22/04/2007 12:32:21

I don't think I've seen this link anywhere before but the last two Scottish education were undertaken in time of war - Kosovo in 1999 and Irag in 2003.

Labour were voted in (like Thatch in 1983) with a war factor premium where the real election issues were never discussed properly.

The fact remains that despite more cash being spent on health and education, both of these are worse after 8 eight of Labour and Lib-Dem government. It is pretty sad that the only "good" thing devolution can say to have delivered was the smoking ban - which initially wasn't even a Lib-Lab policy!

It is only the SNPs polices that being put under some scrutiny (even then its completely biased and inaccurate).

255

Foresight,

By the Babbling Water of Leith 22/04/2007 12:32:57

Today's editorial in SofS is absolutely shameful. Oh for the days when one could rely on the Scotsman for unbiased copy!! As a Scot my intelligence has been insulted for weeks by Blair, Brown and McConnell, not to mention Campbell and Stephen and Lady Annabel. Thank goodness for Alex Salmon.

256

Dennis,

North Isles 22/04/2007 12:35:38

based on the average of the polls the following outcome is likely:

SNP have more seats then the next biggest party but will be well short of a majority in the Parliament.
SNP plus all the other 'Independent Scotland' parties will also be well short of a majority - both in terms of seats and popular vote.
It will, therefore, have no mandate to seek seperation from the UK. It's main mandate is likely to be that it is 'not labour'.
The Lib-Dems should not join with the SNP, but let them attempt to govern. Parties should view each policy and proposed legislation from the SNP in a context of being good for Scotland. The good should be backed - the bad should be opposed.
This would hold back Alex Salmond from forgetting Scotland's immediate interest to make mischief with Westminster on an independence agenda. It would also foil him from engineering public opinion in the lead up to a referendum date of his choosing.
A referendum would be rightly voted down in the Parliament - since it will not command a majority.

No to backroom deals - Yes to transparancy in Parliament.

257

Stewie G,

22/04/2007 12:37:30

#260 "Jolly in Norway"-lighten up-what is the weather like up there on your high horse?

My comments were pretty tame and I am well aware of the political process. Politicians deserve everything they get- particularly in the case of Brown who has been party to decisions that have led to the deaths of countless thousands in Iraq.

Pray enlighten us with your own views.

258

McTalk,

22/04/2007 12:38:01

morris (#168) says
"[An independent Scotland] already has a membership [of the EU] as does England Wales Northern Ireland. The internal affairs of member states make no difference to the EU who consider all countries/multi national states to be members until they declare otherwise. Senior members of the EU, including its ambassador to United Nations have confirmed this."

That's not what they said. In fact, it doesn't make sense.

At the moment, the UK government has signed all the EU treaties. If Scotland becomes independent of the UK and wants to be in the EU, it will have to sign up to these treaties (the "acquis communautaire").

Normally speaking, before a new nation can sign the acquis communautaire, there is an elaborate process of analysis and discussion and vetting. That's unlikely to be necessary in the case of Scotland.

But it's not a completely straightforward process either. For example, France may have to have a referendum about this. (This was introduced recently because the French were unhappy about Turkey joining the EU and France promised them a referendum before there was further enlargement.) Scotland's independence will also require some changes to existing treaties (for example, to cover the voting rights of Scotland and of the reduced UK). Many of these changes require unanimous approval from all EU member states. Countries with their own separatist parties (e.g. Spain) may not be too happy about allowing a newly independent Scotland in. In fact, even the UK could block it!

There are currently no opt-outs for new members: for example, you have to sign up to the European Constitution, and to joining the Eurozone (once you meet the economic convergence criteria). So if Scotland wants such opt-outs (for example, on the grounds that it is not a completely new member state), it may need to give up something else in its negotiations (like fishery rights).

Nothing about this is insurmount

259

Dennis,

North Isles 22/04/2007 12:53:32

284

Very interesting point. The SNP 'independence in Europe' mantra should be challenged every time.

Then there's the question of whether it is best to stay within a union where it is possible for individuals voted for by Scottish constiuencies to exert power over the whole union (Brown, Reid, Alexander et al). Or to join in the European Union where this will NEVER happen.

So by definition the SNP are a Unionist party - they just want to join a diiferent Union - one where the real power is never vested in elected individuals.

260

I'm no really here,

22/04/2007 12:56:23

#282 And what planet do you live on. Do you honestly see Nicol Steven standing on Principle and turning down the opportunity to be Deputy First Minister again?

The only transparent thing in government is the glass in some of it's windows.

261

Ian,

22/04/2007 12:57:41

Labour sold out its core values

They are about to pay the penalty

Many dead labour men/women would be ashamed of the party that now masquerades as a "for the people" paty that is more akin to Thatcher's lot than any labour bunch of old.

262

Princip,

Broxburn 22/04/2007 12:58:54

Nittonlover, #280,

good point regarding the war boost but also add in the double whamey that both of those wars have now stripped of the spin at the time by New Labour and media circles at the time & have been shown for the complete deception that they were!!

Iraq is evident but Kosovo is just as equally a total mess given that we were involved in intervening on the side of ethnic-Albanian muslim sepratists in the medieval heartland of Serbia. Kosovo Polje battle of 1389 was their Culloden against the then invading muslim army of the Ottomans!!!

Since we bombarded the Serbs in 1999, 240,000 non-Albanians have been ethnicaly cleansed right under the nose of thousands of NATO troops. Those left in enclaves can't even till their fields without armed guard!!!

Frankly it shocks me that this Labour party on the one hand suggests Independence is a great idea for the ethnic-Albanians of this Serbian province but slam it for the Scots - hypocrisy or what?????

263

Alex Young Laird of Drumchapel,

Dr. Porter 22/04/2007 13:03:37

Chairman Gordon,
Is showing true colours the same for Labour Party supporters backing up Blair's regime that has colluded in the genocide of 1 000 000 Iraqis?

264

Alex Young Laird of Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/04/2007 13:03:51

Chairman Gordon,
Is showing true colours the same for Labour Party supporters backing up Blair's regime that has colluded in the genocide of 1 000 000 Iraqis?

265

NittonLover,

22/04/2007 13:04:09

#289 -spot on - I know plenty local Labour activists who under normal circumstances would not support many of new Labour policies, but due to party loyalty are willing to sell themselves out for power.

266

Dennis,

North Isles 22/04/2007 13:07:10

288

It may be as you say. That doesn't mean to say that we should just let things happen regardless.

For instance, Lib-dem supporters should be able to look to their representatives as keeping to the policies they were elected on - like the supporters of any other party. The benefit of the modern voting system in Holyrood is that it is designed to allow for minority parties to have an opportunity to effect policies of the largest party with those of their own. Where it goes wrong - is when 2 parties try to make it into a first-past-the post type Parliament where the grouping can always ignore the views of the others.

267

DaveJ,

Perthshire 22/04/2007 13:08:23

Concerning what we might call "McCrone-Gate, I thought I would take a sceptical look at oil and gas revenue trends since production began. This is off the topic, but it keeps coming up.

Revenue since 1976/7 is graphically illustrated in today's money at.
http://www.og.dti.gov.uk/information/bb_updates/appendice...

There is a peak of £26 billion (again in today's money) in 1984/5 with a bell curve of revenue ranging from about 1979/80 to 1990/91; the McCrone years if you like

It is therefore quite reasonable to argue that during the 1980's, after deducting gas and non-Scottish fields, we were running an enormous surplus. Even if you draw a line at the current GERS fiscal deficit of £10 billion, I make that around a £45bn surplus 80-85. I cannot in truth estimate how much that is after deducting gas and non-Scottish fields, lets say £38bn (£45bn less £5bn gas then 95% of the rest). This is a handy nest egg for sure. Can you imagine what it would do invested for the economy

What happens when you sum the GERS fiscal deficit plus Scottish apportioned oil revenues over the last 30 years is the interesting question. I am going to defer to you many experts, sit on the fence and wait for a reply.

My worst case guess is break even. It's certainly a struggle to believe the country is, or has ever been, a "basket case."

It is easy to believe Scotland would be a very different and prosperous place if only .......

268

A Voting Floater,

22/04/2007 13:09:13

The only truth in this election campaign is that all candidates of all political colours are lying through their teeth.

Scotland and Britain are spinning down the shunky with no apparent hope of recovery.

269

Geoff,

SA 22/04/2007 13:11:04

290 Princip-your question-if its OK for the ethnic Albanians why no the Scots.
This is an absurd comparison.The former Yugoslavia was rent asunder by the worst ethnic violence that Europe has seen since WW2. Also the former Yugoslavia was a state hobbled together and kept together by a ruthless communist dictatorship. The legacy of all this hatred has left us with the reality that partitioning along perceived ethnic lines is sadly perhaps the only solution here as in say, Cyprus. The UK bears no relation to this situation whatever. Great Britain and NI is one of the worlds oldest democracies. Our Union is entirely voluntary. If the Scots vote for independence then they will have it.Just because Tony Blair and David Cameron and Ian Pailey and Ming Campbell to name a few, believe in the Union it does not mean that Scotland would not be free to go her own way if she so desires.

270

A Voting Floater,

22/04/2007 13:11:12

Great photo at the top - a bunch of balloons!

271

NittonLover,

22/04/2007 13:12:51

#296 - none of what your saying matches the atrocious defamition of post#5.

I am pro-Scotland (and all those who live here) not anti-English. I think most pro-independance supporters (be they SNP, Green or Socialist voters) would agree.

272

Geoff,

SA 22/04/2007 13:19:01

296 AM2Great post.Thank you for putting together these gems. Some Nats in this forum in the best"holier than thou" tradition, take great delight in quoting the most extreme views from the Telegraph as being typical of English opinion just to stir the pot further!

273

,

22/04/2007 13:20:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
274

Geoff,

SA 22/04/2007 13:21:09

298 A Floating Voter-sadly, much truth in what you say.

275

livilion,

livingston 22/04/2007 13:23:12

Eyes on the prize
LEADER INTERVIEW: ALEX SALMOND
EDDIE BARNES

>>>
But dozens of stories appeared of the meeting of the future king of England and the Scottish young pretender, enjoying a convivial dram. "That meeting was asked for by the Palace," says Salmond.
<<<

King of England?!!

276

NittonLover,

22/04/2007 13:24:18

The press are obsessed with all the name calling in this election.

Lets talk about ISSUES!

277

Geoff,

SA 22/04/2007 13:25:10

303 A proud Doonhamer- I get your point about ouside interference but in this instance the Scottish Election is of great relevance to the United Kingdom at large, so the input of certain Westminster MP's is I think justifiable in this instance in particular.

278

livilion,

livingston 22/04/2007 13:26:12

297. DaveJ, Perthshire
Aye, exept that McCrone predicted embarrassing fiscal surpluses on the back of a predicted income of £800millions a year not £26billions or even £5billions.

279

The Strategist,

22/04/2007 13:27:54

Certainly Labour could in no way be considered "industrially nationalistic" and are quite prepared to be pushed around by the EU when it comes to issues such as shipbuilding.

I still find it quite remarkable that the Executive wasn't prepared to treat the fishery support vessel contract as a "grey ship" which would have allowed them to essentially deal directly with Ferguson Shipbuilders and not put the job out to tender across Europe.

It's almost as if they're bending over backwards to demonstrate their hard man credentials to the City rather than doing anything in Scotland's national interest.

Jack McConnell also appointed himself Chair of the Financial Services Advisory Board which was something else I found utterly bizarre.. This makes it almost impossible for him to criticise the financial services industry for their lack of support for Scottish industry although his wee deputy pal Nicol Stephen did put the boot last year by saying that funders were not doing Scotland any good by failing to support Scottish high growth start-ups.. Didn't do any good of course and he was probably told to pipe down by Uncle Jack for fear of upsetting the banks..

It's also sad in the extreme that a number of Exec initiatives such as the Intermediary Technology Institutes should have licensed Scottish developed technologies to foreign companies. Half of their licence deals have gone this way. I'm a supporter of globalisation but I draw the line at helping other countries to globalise.

It's a strange old economic world we live with in Scotland..

280

Geoff,

SA 22/04/2007 13:29:50

305 Livilion-How are you! King of England indeed-unbelievable- can the press in this Island and indeed Europe and (esp) North America be so obstinately and consistently sloppy as to keep repeating this England/Britain error! Great material for your camp sadly!

281

Gaga,

Panama 22/04/2007 13:34:02

McTalk #284, you like to talk .....mince, with all due respect of course. The UK is a treaty-based association of two states - England and Scotland. The UK therefore no longer exists (as a state) if Scotland secedes from it. Scotland cannot become "independent of the UK" in the way you suggest, implying that a 'UK' rump would simply carry on without Scotland. The UK is, in fact, Scotland and England - and one without the other means there is no longer a UK, as such. And before you mention Wales and N. Ireland, just remember that neither are kingdoms and they were therefore not included in the 1707 Treaty of Union that created the UK.

So, judging by what you say, Engerland may also have to ask the French to have a referendum on whether or not they can be accepted back into the EU as a separate historic nation. If it came to this (which is doubtful), personally I would expect the French to support a Scots application to join the EU, but to perhaps think twice about the Anglais!

282

Miss Jean Brodie,

22/04/2007 13:37:39

Labour policy for Scotland . . . attack the SNP!

They have no other policy - I have heard so far!

Even their party political broadcast was Attack the SNP.

Why are they trying desperately to presrve a union if Scotland are such a drain on the rest of it ?

Labour to my mind - a party with no honest policy and an untruthful spin denying the benefit and economic prosperity an independent Scotland would bring!

283

Dennis,

North Isles 22/04/2007 13:39:53

296 AM2 Excellent post

284

Dennis,

North Isles 22/04/2007 13:42:43

#311 Nice try!

285

,

22/04/2007 13:43:38
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286

The Daleks,

22/04/2007 13:48:15

AM2.

Why oh why, do you bother.

If you actually were Scottish, you'd be a bone fide traitor, and we all know the penalties that incurs.

Media1.

As someone who knows Africa, your African observations are generally spot on.

Stick to what you know.

Stay clear of the Scottish debate.

Your support for the self hating Scots doesn't become you.

287

The Strategist,

22/04/2007 13:53:34

#315 Colonel Blimp

The problem is old bean that whoever it is you are referring to was right about Thatcher and is actually still right.

Can I give you one modern example... Wind farm technology.. I've lost count now of how many wind turbines have been put up but they're all there due to Govt policy..

Doesn't matter whether you support wind energy or not but any other sensible Govt with an understanding of strategy and indeed industrial patriotism would have at least made the attempt to ensure that the UK let alone Scotland benefited from the policy and indeed created a global industry on the back of it.

Unfortunately it didn't happen.. So in fact the main beneficiaries have been German, Danish and American companies who have used the opportunity afforded to them by a UK Govt initiative to improve their corporate CVs and flog wind technology all around the world..

288

Gaga,

Panama 22/04/2007 13:54:46

Dick, #309, re shipbuilding. There is a good reason why the Poles built the fish prot ship, plus Calmac ferries plus Shetland ferries in recent years. Its called government support for the industry. The article below reflects the importance the Poles place in their shipbuilding industry, even despite the EC remarks. Italy, Spain, Germany, Finland do exactly the same and all doing very well in the current global shipbuilding boom thank you very much. New Labour are a joke by comparison and they are the main reason the shipbuilding industry has died in Scotland.

Brussels delivers blow to Polish yard plans
LLoyds List Thursday 19 April 2007
POLAND’S current plan to restructure three shipyards, including one in Gdansk, is not sufficient to allow the government to give them US$1.6bn in state aid, the European Commission has said.
"The restructuring plans submitted...do not fulfil any of the crucial criteria for allowing state aid," the Commission said in a statement, after Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes met with Polish Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

289

Jura Clarke,

22/04/2007 13:58:25

We have to distance ourselves from all this Patriotism , be it Scottish or British ,if we are to solve the problems we face as a planet. We need urgent action on global poverty, climate change, to name but a few. This sterile debate about borders is irrelevant

290

Not Brian Taylor,

22/04/2007 13:58:36

#323 AM2

Is this "Our economy doing well"?

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/economics/story/0,,2061690...

291

Alex Young Laird of Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/04/2007 14:00:11

Exposed again Chairman Gordon; the stats more important than the principle. Ach, it's only Iraqis dying eh?

So, if the figure 1 million dead is wrong exactly how many Iraqis have died because of the Labour party lies and involvement with Bush's neo-cons to involve Great Britain in an illegal war in Iraq?

Do you have the correct figures?

292

Gaga,

Panama 22/04/2007 14:01:07

#316 - not got anything meaningful to say? By the way, I assume its the 'North Isles' and not the 'Northern Isles'!

293

,

22/04/2007 14:01:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
294

frank mcbride,

lusitania 22/04/2007 14:04:34

AM2

Your at it again!!!

Whilst appearing to be responsible, you are, in fact, by abusing your right to post, inciting these abhorrent comments. DESIST.

Anyone who reads these on-line comments will know that my allegiencies lie with the SNP (1st. membership May '67) and I will say here,as I have on many occasions:

I DESPISE RACISM/BIGOTRY IN ALL ITS FORMS and respectfully request that anyone porporting to speak for the party which I support refrain from inciting this evil.

AM2, I would respectfully ask you to stop your inflamatory post.

I am not trying to censor anyone, but if you object to racist languague/attitudes being posted then reply to the individual post.

I would urge all SNP posters to make it clear that they disagree with any form of racism.

295

Alex Young Laird of Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/04/2007 14:05:55

Jura,

Give us a break. Scotland can't do anything for the rest of the world until it does something for itself. We don't have a seat at the UN and have no real governmental relationships with the outside world. We can do nothing without sovereigny so wake up and smell the coffee.

296

HZ,

22/04/2007 14:06:47

What a grand come back to criticisms of his policies? Could it just be that event the leader of the Scottish Numpty Party isn't that much of a numpty to have any true faith in his party's policies?

The SNP using exageration and the flimsiest of arguements is nothing new. The SNP having a manifesto full of more holes than your average seive is nothing new. The SNP making pre election claims of an impending break-through is nothing new.

Thankfully there's nothing new either in the Scottish electorate showing a hell of a lot more sense than to beleive in them come election day.

297

,

22/04/2007 14:10:23
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298

argonaut,

musselburgh 22/04/2007 14:10:34

does anyone know if scotsman staff read our posts?? i simply reckon this paper has the lost the friggin plot. its job is to give unbiased reports to project public opinion....b*llocks...this rag has itself plunged to new depths....Mr barnes needs to get a grip of himself and report the facts..not his opinions...

its time..................

299

Geoff,

SA 22/04/2007 14:18:38

330- A proud Doonhamer-of course I would have a problem with campaigning by non UK persons. Whether you like it or(in your case) not, Scotland is a constituent part of the United Kingdom and each Home Nation has an interest in the affairs of their partners as in the affairs of the Union as a whole. Scots politicians have a great deal of influence over the affairs and indeed elections in England!! I personally have no problem with this and interestingly the Telegraph poll that one of your allies loves to quote regarding English opinions found that 76%(!) of the English polled had absolutely no problem with the number of cots in the UK and by default. the"English" component of that Parliament.
Also as previously stated this is no ordinary bread and butter election-one of the main parties,your SNP wants to destroy our country, the United Kingdom so in this instance we most definitely have the right to express an opinion!!

300

,

22/04/2007 14:18:50
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301

Geoff,

SA 22/04/2007 14:19:40

That should of course be SCOTS!! Monty Python moment...

302

Alex Young Laird of Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/04/2007 14:20:24

Again Chairman Gordon,

Are you ok with the principle of Iraqis being slaughtered on an industrial scale? The 2 most promenant figures are between 650 000 and 1 million. Which is ok for you?

303

Princip,

Broxburn 22/04/2007 14:21:31

Geoff, #299

It is not I but Blair and his Foreign policy who are spearheading the suggestion of creating an ethnically cleansed mono-ethnic Albanian entity in Europe.

I just pose the clear contradiction - If Blair feels it is ok for the dismembering of a UN recognised state - Serbia because one region (not a nation state) is predominantly populated by an etnic group of the neighbouring region - Albania then on what grounds does he and the rest of the New Labour cronies deny the right and lambast the idea for a Independent Scotland!!! He supports the creation of an entity that less grounds for creation but suggest that it would teh biggets misteke fo the Scots!!!! The contradiction of the Nu Labour spin masters needs to be put across.

Please bear in mind that following the 1999 ILLEGAL NATO attack a UN resolution was agreed (by the UK Govt) and this reconfirmed the territorial integrity of the Serbian State. If you could provide me with a historical account of a "Kosovar" ethnicity then maybe we could discuss the merits of it's independence.

I merely highlight the contradiction of our New Labour govts stance in promoting the Independence of an entity that has no historical, ethnic nor economic validity while trying to preech to the Scots who have as you rightly said been in union but to boot have a distinct ethnic nationhood, defined borders, an economy and no barrier to independence beyond a referndum.

I am afraid it is the clear contradiction & Hypocritical spin of the Nu Labour that I illuminate not the warrants for or against Independence of Scotland.

304

,

22/04/2007 14:21:44
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305

The Strategist,

22/04/2007 14:23:16

#322 Gaga

Yes I agree. I think part of the problem is that Labour see shipbuilding as some sort of old fashioned metal bashing business whereas nowadays it's a highly sophisticated, technology driven industry requiring very high levels of skills in engineering design, naval architecture, materials and so on and so forth.

Perhaps that's the problem.. It's just beyond their comprehension :-)

306

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 22/04/2007 14:25:58

Into the final full week.

Stand by for full-on Labour negativity.

BUT IT'S ALL TOO LATE.

Joke McFlannel & Co can collect their giros May 4.

IT'S TIME.

307

Geoff,

SA 22/04/2007 14:28:09

341-what about Geoff B Team?

308

Cam3,

Scotland 22/04/2007 14:28:52

Having just watched 'The politics show', the labour **** has started to flow down the forth - quite literally.

Get these useless blaggards out and give Eddie barnes and co. a barge in which to sail - preferably to any country whereby it's own people see fit to cite dependancy and 'more of the same'.

Exciting politics Scotland!

Our own parliament!

Led by an SNP administration!

Let's see what that looks like - it's gotta be better than the Lab-Fib/dem coalition!!

309

murren59,

Florryduh - Jaw'gya 22/04/2007 14:29:44

Today's Telegraph Teasers...

"If it had not been for the Union the English would never have suffered the insanity of Labour government and Scotland would be deserted.
Bring on the separation before all is lost."
Posted by D. Ward on April 22, 2007 5:35 AM

310

murren59,

Florryduh - Jaw'gya 22/04/2007 14:31:35

Today's Telegraph Teasers...

"I understand the sentiments of the Unionist question. Devolution has endorsed and amplified the question of indepenance for nationalist parties because the governing party in London is incompetent and does not reflect the views of the devolved regions. The next unelected Prime Minister comes from a scottish seat. That in itself make me become more of an english nationalist. Let the incompetence of the Scottish Parliment expose itself by becoming independant and let all these scottish MP's return north of the border where they belong. It is about time England was rules by the english."
Posted by Nick from Londo on April 22, 2007 7:04 AM

311

murren59,

Florryduh - Jaw'gya 22/04/2007 14:33:38

Today's Telegraph Teasers...

"Now, now, don't get yourself so upset. As long as the English keep writing the cheques the Scots will keep the Union."
Posted by B.D. Kelly on April 22, 2007 7:56 AM

312

Frodo the Scot,

middle earth 22/04/2007 14:35:44

8. Alex Young Laird of Drumchapel, Madrid Bag it bobo... isnt there something in madrid you can spew at or will you disappear after. take 2 rolaids and chill these iraqis a dying so you can run your filthy gob.

313

murren59,

Florryduh - Jaw'gya 22/04/2007 14:36:18

Today's Telegraph Teasers...

"It has gone too far! The Labour Party and the Scots have been too greedy; and the English are fed up with injustice, economic and political. If redress will not come from the Union, then it will have to come from English independence.
No sane Briton can doubt that it is sad that common sense and decency could not sort the matter out: but that is the fault of Labour and the Scots. And in truth, once the injustices are straightened out, and a new and fairer system installed, why should a new Union not be formed ?

But will the English want it even on such terms, if it is to lead to more periods of Labour, socialist, ruin in England ? If there is no other way, will we not prefer a smaller, better governed, conservative, England, even if it means losing Scotland for ever ? And some of the Northern counties too! Better a Wessex that works, than Wessex plus the Danelaw that doesn't!

It will certainly not be easy in any case to get the Scottish political class to renounce its rights of patronage and corruption; but the chances are that the people, sunk in debt, without jobs, with appalling governance and no hope, will in a few years insist on it. And of course there is the million to one chance that an independent Scotland will emulate Ireland and Finland and be a success -under the EU. In the end the last word will lie with England, and if the English haven't spoken yet, who knows ? They still might."
Posted by Robert Sebag-Montefiore on April 22, 2007 8:42 AM

314

,

22/04/2007 14:36:36
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315

IWright,

22/04/2007 14:37:06

#180
Craig - read the article. Interestingly it quotes Jack McConnell as saying more powers for Holyrood in the next 4 years are "inevitable". Considering Labour policy is no new powers then that is an acceptance of defeat on May 3. So why is this not being reported in the SoS?

316

murren59,

Florryduh - Jaw'gya 22/04/2007 14:37:49

Today's Telegraph Teasers...

"Many English readers will welcome all of this; they think the Scots should leave soonest and close the door behind them.
Too right; please close it quietly,and take all of Scotlands MPs with you!
Posted by Ex-Pat France on April 22, 2007 8:56 AM

317

Steve Foley,

England 22/04/2007 14:43:33

I find AM2's posturings amusing. For his information I am NOT a member of the SNP and do not even have a vote in this Election as I have lived in England for 35 years now. I would give it to them if I had.

Politically, I am Left of Centre on Economic and Industrial Relations Issues and a great supporter of an NHS free at point of use by all citizens, as envisaged by Nye Bevan, but to the Right on Law and Order, Education, and many Social and Moral Issues. As regards the Union, I feel that it has outlived its usefulness to both Scotland and England. Although I can see Scotland becoming a Republic in time should it Vote for Independence, I prefer our Constitutional Monarchy to a Presidency, even if such were purely a Figurehead as in Ireland or Germany rather than Executive as in the USA or France

So when he clumps all Nationalists together I have to laugh. I doubt that I would fit in with the Stereotype Nat.

318

IWright,

22/04/2007 14:44:42

#184
"i think anyone who wants to play down Scotland's problems and exaggerate Scotland's strengths is anti-Scottish, because that does Scotland no good."

Keir Hardie - I don't think much of people using someone else's identity but if you must, given your comments above, George Orwell would be more appropriate.

319

Geoff,

SA 22/04/2007 14:45:22

345 A Proud Doonhamer-pleasure, and thank you for your good grace. As I have said many times over since joining this forum, I have no problem on an intellectual level with the desire of some Scots for independence. One of my very best friends as a student was a ScotNat when we first met in the sixties long before the SNP became a power to be reckoned with! It never was a barrier to our friendship. For me it is an emotional issue - I was born and will die British. The current situation saddens me.

320

murren59,

Florryduh - Jaw'gya 22/04/2007 14:46:36

Today's Telegraph Teasers...

"It has been noted many times that in any major football tournament that has England invovled, that the English will have the largest travelling support.
Surely no coincidence then that, taking the last world cup as an example, the country with the largest travelling support, was a country that has no seperate legal identity (it's English and Welsh law, and county police forces), is not represented at the EU, NATO, UN, etc, or in the UK (its N. Ireland, Scotland, Wales and the county councils of England), has no major political party associated with it alone (the Tories are nominally a Union party), no major instituions (C of E aside, much good they do us), isn't allowed to celebrate it's diversity (as the comments on St George show on here), has no major multi national corportations with England in the name (why does England have BT and the BBC, but Scotland have "Scottish BT" and SBBC?), had to have it's predominatly English popular culture called (lamentablely) Britpop, that the word England or English rarely appears in our national sporting associations (compare the FA or RU with the SFA, WFA, FFA, SRU, etc).
We're being stitched up!"

Posted by gryff on April 22, 2007 6:14 AM

321

Cincinnatus,

The Capital 22/04/2007 14:47:07

That's the trouble with Devolution, you can't ride two horses at the same time, especially if they are starting to go in different directions.

Hurrah

All Unionists are Pro-Union and therefore are not Pro-Scotland, other than believing (BLINDLY) that Union is the only solution. It's not, it's one of many!

SAOR ALBA

322

murren59,

Florryduh - Jaw'gya 22/04/2007 14:48:12

Today's Telegraph Teasers...

"All I want is to be treated with the same dignity and consideration as given to the people of Scotland. They have their own parliament which allows them to have better treatments when sick,better treatment when they get old. They are also able to send away their politicians to interfere in the affairs of the people of England who are the only people in the former United Kingdom wh olack their own government. My legitimate and reasonable concerns remain unaddressed, perhaps direct action is called for or is now inevitable."
Posted by Harry Basset on April 22, 2007 9:26 AM

323

murren59,

Florryduh - Jaw'gya 22/04/2007 14:50:45

Today's Telegraph Teasers...

"Knight Albion and others,

I feel kinship is awakening amongst us and if we resolve to take control of our country back Billy Bragg and his ilk may be assisted to dover Channel to forge a new life inthe World at large whilst leaving us to our way of life.

If you have seen my written thoughts here you know I stand on the platform of English first and last.There are no alternatives.

The way forward is nationalist and no alternative will do."
Posted by David Albion on April 22, 2007 11:28 AM

324

IWright,

22/04/2007 14:50:54

#185
malcolm - am2 and his fellow labour drones are given a new theme each week, complete with words and phrases to use (negative ones of course). One of the interesting dimensions to this campaign has been the sheer ineptness of Labour, including their online campaign. Partly it is due to the evident poor calibre of their operatives but also, in their self-regarding arrogance, they have failed to see how transparent they are, presumably thinking we're not able to see through them.

325

Geoff,

SA 22/04/2007 14:51:02

353 Murren 59-"Its about time England was rules by the English"! Sounds like an enlightened opinion from an educated liberal lad! And this you quote as typicalof English opinion?

326

Iain More,

Moray 22/04/2007 14:52:43

Labour is anti Scottish - so what is new in Britland! Yawn!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perhaps the paper should rebrand itself as Labour On Sunday! or Blair On Sunday or Brown On Sunday - it surrendered the right to call itself Scotland on Sunday a long time ago1

327

Alex Young Laird of Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/04/2007 14:53:23

Chairman Gordon, here is the 1 million figure for you.
http://civillibertarian.blogspot.com/2007/03/million-deat...

Now that I've shown you this you'll retract the accusation that I plucked the figure out of thin air? Or have thee no honour?

Going back to my previous question which figure do you think is ok?

328

Dennis,

North Isles 22/04/2007 14:55:32